My suggestion for Diana's role in the new version of Batman V Superman: she holds the same beliefs as Alfred, which compells a scene with the two characters.
Tyler did, however, if we had gotten Wonder Womans movie first, a movie about the good in people and a movie about how Wonder Woman had saved the world before, knowing her and Batman have a relationship, having her side with Superman would have been ideal.
My Suggestion for Diana's place in the story would be almost a role model for Superman. She has been doing the Hero thing longer than Bruce and Clark combine. Clark seeing her still fighting for good after years of being The Wonder Woman with the power she holds could be inspiring and a convo between both about advice revolving around what a hero is and what a hero needs to be. Something along the lines of "No matter what someone somewhere is going to hate you because of the power you hold for good or evil, but in those moments you have to remember why you are doing this." A discussion around the difficulties of the "Super Hero biz" and that even Superman a "god" needs to talk things over sometimes. And for Bruce seeing that there are Heros out there who he doesn't feel he needs to be able to kill could reassure him that having a talk with Superman like what the trial should have been to humanize the all powerful superman would be enough to be able to move on from "Kill Superman" and move to stop Luthor. Together. That convo would likely take place somewhere in the late 2nd act or early 3rd.
You win. This is a great rebuke to batman. God like power must have checks but Diana is the same and doesn't need checks. The one problem with it is that Batman is playing a zero sum game. "If there is even a 1% chance..." What happens if Superman or WW choose to destroy humans because they decide that humans are the great evil to the world. Low probability event but an ever present existential crisis.
I really liked this video. Not only did your changes seem appropriate, but you pointed out flaws and proposed improvements to the movie without the condescending 'know-it-all' attitude that most film youtubers have (being frankly hateful to most movies for the sake of clicks, and really not better than most actual screen writers). I hope you continue having some more 'I fixed' videos, because your professional and respectful approach to analyzing films and their screenplays is more of what film RUclips needs.
I actually like the Matha scene. Not the first time I saw it, but the second time. At this point, Batman realizes that Superman is not a soulless god. He is a "boy from Kansas" and who also has a mother, just like Bruce did. So he could be responsible for a boy losing his mother again! This is a very deep emotional anker, just by having the mothers sharing the same name, which is actually quite genius I think and which Luther could have totally missed, because it's so simple. It definetly wasn't set-up well enough though. And It's very true, that the reason they fight was just very weak. Great video. :D
Good suggestions. As likable as the film was, it had so much more potential. I think Diana's role could've been trimmed without fully removing; same goes for the Knightmare sequence. It'd be nice to see an 'I fixed Justice League' too.
The other interesting lesson I took from this was that the Dual Protagonist format faltered because the antagonist was relatively weak. Lex doesn’t hold up here, so it undermines the whole narrative
The first misstep in the story was that foreign village incident. It wasn't necessary at all, and only serves to have Louis chase a ghost bullet. The court scene should've been focused on Superman being questioned about his fight with Zod and how much of a potential danger he could be. The fallout of that city fight with Zod would've led to a huge public enquiry, but the film shifted all of that pointlessly to villagers being killed, mainly off screen. That was all needless padding that added unnecessary complexity to the plot. Lex's motives were also undefined, especially given his rants about God, only to later reveal he was taking to Steffenwolf and was going to bring gods down to earth anyway, only without Superman's protection. Batman already had a decent motive to stop Superman which was shown in the opening. He didn't need letters from an anonymous Lex to add to that. In fact, Lex wasn't really needed at all. That was more complexity padding that could've been thinned. The major missing ingredient was why Batman was such a pyscho. That would've been a wonderful sub plot to explore in the character. They briefly referenced Robin's death, but it wasn't enough to justify his zero tolerance approach to justice. Had took more time to set up what made him snap, that would've been reason enough to draw him and Sups into a fight, but instead, they padded it out with bat branding and pee jars. Then his redemption was just in the spur of the moment, and suddenly all that rage was gone. The whole film was just a waste of so much potential. But I still like the direction you've taken anyway. Keep up the good vids
@Erik Kemeey that's not enough justification on Lex's part. There's nothing in his character that establishes any of that other than bland philosophical ramblings. That, on top of the 'plan', was nothing but convoluted nonsense. Batman had the perfect motivation already set up in seeing his building and friends killed in the fight between Kal and Zod. Nothing else was needed. But all the screen watching, dream sequences, anonymous letters, etc, were all nonsensical, convoluted plot fillers. His inner rage would've been better explored in a separate scene to let us see what pushed him over the edge. A quick shot of Robin's suit and his then complete redemptive transformation at the end was nonsense. Everything was half baked because they shoved so much pointless plot padding into the script. And the whole DCEU was detailed as a result.
I think this would make an amazing movie. I love this superman and how the second act is a lot cleaner. my only issue is how you wrote batman. I understand him having this change of heart to superman and stuff but the way you wrote him doesn't feel like batman. super well done otherwise though
Your point about Wonder Woman is great, and we didn't get her movie till after, but considering how few Allies Super Man has, if we had gotten Wonder Woman first, it would have been cool to see the viewpoint of how a super powered individual saved the world before, especially someone Batman historically has a relationship with.
Probably the biggest issue I had with BVS is they came too close to making Batman a villain. It is my head cannon theory that Lex had a similar plan to kidnap someone important to Bruce as well (Alfred) and force Batman into the fight to the death too, but Lex didn't bother because of Bruce Wayne's lack of humanity and over willingness to commit murder. Bruce Wayne was way too self-righteous for my personal tastes. This would have been fine if Batman was supposed to be a villain. Ben Afleck did a great job playing the part. It is the way the part was written that I have issue with. Your remake did fix some of the other minor issues I had with it though. In the original, since when does Superman respond to the bat signal? How did Batman know Superman would come if he used the bat signal? Why did Superman bother going to Batman anyway? He should have skipped that step, and just rescued Martha himself.
Because in the first meeting when the Batmobile struck Superman, Superman warns Batman to not go the signal the next time it's used. He wanted to end the Bat's vigilantism.
Wait, in this version there is no motivation for superman to fight Batman, unless Luthor made it seem like Batman was the one who kidnapped Lois. Even then why would he fight him to the death after he had saved her and none of Batman’s weapons hurt him? Batman’s use of kryptonite has to be at the start of the fight to make it possible and to have superman be in panic mode/fighting for his life.
I only agree with the court trial being more developed before the bomb explodes, but other than that, it feels like a watered down and very safe version of the original plot. Replacing Bruce's motivation with ego instead of fear caused by his ptsd, it doesn't carry the same punch for his change of heart later on. He makes lots of mistakes throughtout the movie because his not thinking clearly, and that's interesting. I prefer having him making these bad choices not because his inmature and wants to be better than Superman but because he's really determined to kill him, because he's deeply traumatized. His reasoning for killing Superman as a priority it's not 100% genuine, he's in denial. He fears Superman because that destruction he witnessed in Metropolis was the first time in over 30 years he felt truly powerless, the first time being the death of his parents. The name drop of Martha it doesn't actually has to do with the coincidence, but it was a reminder of how low he has fallen. Their mothers could have got different names and I'm sure the writer would have come up with another element that would have reminded him the death of his parents. The name was probably used because they thought it was a clever way to tie the current situation with the flashback. I like that the wayne's murder is included in the story because I consider this movie to be a Batman origin story for the DCEU but not a traditional one. The death of the Waynes is the equivalent of how he got his superhero powers, but instead of having to see how he becomes Batman, we see how he goes back to be the ideal Batman after 20 years of losing faith in the goodness of man. The sacrifice of Superman, the man he was trying to kill, retores this hope he had lost for a long while and sets up his motivation for the next movie that is based on regret. This element will be lost if he just forgives him during the fight because he recalls some advice from Alfred, and then when he sees Superman sacrificing his life to kill Doomsday, Bruce wouldn't have any fault in this decision. Superman ends up dead in BvS because how blind Bruce's actions are, what makes him not realize he was being manipulated by Lex, which is another key element you took out. I don't know. I feel like you just sold me a functional version of the story but a less memorable and impactful one. Interesting video though
My thoughts to a T. Thank you for this comment! Tyler makes some very interesting points as usual, but I think he missed on some of the deeper meanings Snyder is trying to express. Just like a lot of his other videos, I find Tyler's approach to be overly rational and lacking some artistic spark.
The real fix for the movie is to make Batman be Batman. This series shows him as an unhinged executioner. He brands criminals knowing this will get them killed. Batman doesn't kill. It's not just a trite statement. It's integral to the character. He does not kill because he believes in redemption. Anyone can be redeamed even the Joker. Everyone deserves the right to choose to be good. That's why Batman doesn't use guns. He uses non-lethal techniques and stealth so that he can control how much damage he inflicts and not kill. A Batman who kills is The Punisher. He wouldn't need to be a ninja or fight guys with his fists.
This is why I said with the movie being the way it was made they shouldn’t have titled it “Batman vs Superman, it should be titled “Dawn of Justice” the fight wouldn’t have been so focused on from audience members and that would have been more of a surprise fight, but from a marketing standpoint, pinning the fight as the main event is the bigger interest.
Superman Is supposed to be the best of all of us..he would have stayed and rescued as many people as he possibly could from that bomb explosion....not fly off like a pouty little pu$$y because his feelings were hurt!
I love your videos. They're better than any book you can buy out there!!! I'd love to see a video on fixing story structure with Justice League (maybe even the Synder cut version, since it already fixed mini issues) but also addressing why it fails in comparison to Avengers
The Best way that I know of to introduce Wonder woman in your version if you want to introduce her all be it pointless. Is in the Final Fight with Doomsday, when Batman is so injured he is forced out of the Fight. For the time being but he still has just enough strength to climb back in to his Batplane with Alfred Flying it for him as Batman is unable to fly himself, back to the spot or at least close to the spot where he stupidly ditched the Kryptonite Spear. But couldn't get at it easy needing Lois's Help who just so happens to be there. And after when Batman finally Successfully Convinces Lois that he no longer wants to use the Spear on Superman and that he No Longer sees Superman as a Threat any more or whatever. They Both Climb Back in the Batplane after retrieving the Kryptonite Spear but only this time it is Lois who is Flying the Batplane with some instruction from Batman, Back to the Fight with Doomsday. But all the while with Superman just like with Many forms of Media where Superman Fights Doomsday for the First time he is no match against Doomsday. Then that is where Wonder Woman would finally come in, as Doomsday was about to Crush Superman like a Bug. But Wonder Woman is somehow able to force Doomsday's attention off of Superman and on to her for a little Bit, then for a bit both Superman and Wonder Woman could Double Team Doomsday until Batman Returns in the Batplane with the Kryptonite in Tow. And as soon as the Doors on Batplane opens Batman Uses all of his remaining to throw the Kryptonite as close to Superman as he could. Then Maybe you could have Superman Stagger up and do his best to make his way to the Kryptonite Spear all the while Wonder Woman is doing her best in her fight against Doomsday but not having much luck. But still she'll still serve as a good enough of a Distraction Against Doomsday until Superman can get at the Kryptonite Spear to do his thing. And all the while you could maybe Tease Wonder Woman through out the Film before her Introduction in the above. It would Not Serve as a way to Complete the Trinity but it would also it would feel a lot more productive than using Wonder Woman to Tease The other Justice League Members for the Next Film. Which In My Opinion Has Nothing to do with the BVS Film. I Think at best they should all of the in the Post Credits or Mid Credits or whatever, even if they want to do it the exact same way that they did it in the Actually Film, and it still wouldn't Affect anything as to the Regards of getting us the Audience Excited about not only about the Justice League Members but also about the up coming Justice League Film at the time.
This is a good rewrite. I think one lingering issue is that Superman’s motives are still underdeveloped, and it’s still not clear why Superman engages in a fight with Batman. It also doesn’t seem to actually resolve the philosophical themes but rather concludes they are not as important as the intentions of the all-powerful character, which seems to only come back to the philosophical issue at hand, without actually answering the question. It seems to me the two big issues are Superman’s lack of well-defined motivations, and Lex’s dominant role in overtly orchestrating the story’s major events. 1) It seems to me that if the philosophical themes revolve around trusting the intentions of an all-powerful being, then knowing the trustworthiness of that intent is important. But “I don’t want people to get hurt” doesn’t work when all characters present actually do hurt some people to protect others. Something more needs to be present to distinguish their actions and vantage points. Why does Superman do what he does, in the way that he does it? More importantly, since the film has two protagonists (not two antagonists, even though Bruce functions in that way for most of it), Superman’s goals actually needed to directly conflict - or rather appear to directly conflict - with Batman’s goals. That way, the conflict between them is natural, even if what prompts that conflict is manufactured. 2) This is where Lex fails to support the story. It seems that Lex’s wants are nearly identical to Bruce’s, only his motivations are more sinister. Perhaps in that case it would have worked better to keep him as a mere inciting force, creating opportunities for conflict between Superman and Batman. But that still wouldn’t be enough, because why have two characters with the same motivations leading to the same actions? No, Lex needed a primary desire separate from killing Superman that motivated his apparent goals. Of course, for this to work, Lex’s primary desire would need to directly conflict with both Superman and Batman’s goals, in a way that connects back to the themes and questions introduced at the start. In this way, the conflict between Superman and Batman is not only natural, but a problem needing resolution, and resolving that problem exposes the true danger that requires both heroes to address. And addressing that danger would reveal an answer to the questions and themes posed by the film.
Lex would would do whatever it takes to eliminate threats regardless of casualties. Batman wants to reduce casualties but is conflicted on how to do that, such as killing Superman in this rewrite (I'm assuming Batman using machine guns to massacre villains is removed in this rewrite).
@Erik Kemeey Because it's flawed. Batman shouldn't have needed Superman to say "Martha" to figure out he wasn't a threat. This is a flawed Batman compared to the comics.
I disagree with the criticisms and changes you gave the film. I'd like to provide an argument to challenge these ideas and show that the film is not a mess. You said that basically everything up until the midpoint was solid except for the dream sequence. I mostly agree with this, although I don't think that scene is just "trailer bait". The nightmarish tone of the scene is incredibly effective at not only reinforcing Batman's motivations, but making the audience question if Superman can really be trusted. In regards to Superman's trial, you expressed some confusion about Lex Luthor's motivation. Lex is a very jealous and ego-driven person. He hates that Superman exists because he no longer feels like he can achieve a number one status (though I know you understand that much). The reason he bombs the trial wasn't just to frame Superman, necessarily. He wants to do anything and everything he can to bring controversy to Superman, and it works. The bombing makes it even more clear to the general public within the film that everywhere Superman goes, death and destruction follows. Superman recognizes this, and considers giving up being Superman. It's exactly what Lex wanted. Also, Superman doesn’t just “leave” the trial. There is a clear time jump between scenes in which superman has helped to get any survivors out of the building. He leaves after doing his best to help, but being told by officials that they don’t feel comfortable with him there. He won’t look bad for leaving. The next big criticism that you gave the film was in regards to the fight between Batman and Superman, saying it wasn't personal enough, and that Superman could have just explained to Batman the issue at hand. The thing is, he tries to for the entire duration of the fight. Even when he is actively attacking Batman, it's so that he can try to get him to listen. It is very personal for Superman. He is desperate to save his mother. Superman NEVER simply wants to hurt people or win a battle for the sake of it. It would be a complete betrayal of his character for him to have any motivation of actually killing or merely beating Batman. Lex Luthor needed to give him a reason to fight Batman, and that reason was Martha. Lex knows that Batman has what it takes to kill Superman. You said that the titular fight is ended because the two of them happen to have mothers that share the same name. I think that this belittles the actual meaning of the scene. It's not just about the names of the mothers. It's about the concept of motherhood and its correlation to humanity. Batman has convinced himself that he can kill Superman because he is an alien, and not even a man. When he learns that Superman has a mother and that she is in danger, he is finally broken from his tunnel vision. He realizes that Superman is human in many ways. In a way, Superman is like the scared little boy that Batman once was, a boy torn from his mother. It's very poetic. You ended your criticism of the film by saying that the ending actually works quite well, and I agree. The changes you made to the film in my opinion don't work, because they frame Superman as a vigilante. That isn't what Superman is. Superman would sooner accept the restrictions of the government than betray them and cast aside their concerns. A big question I have is if this video is about the theatrical edition of the film or the ultimate edition. It seems that you were confused about a lot of the character motivation, and the ultimate edition restores the parts that were missing in the theatrical edition. I thought your video was well edited and very concise. I enjoyed learning your perspective, because you have an amazing knowledge of professional screenwriting!
You could add growing unrest in the US about "The Superman" following his international actions. And Diana's role could be inspiring Superman to continue doing good even in the face of adversity. However, I still agree that Diana shouldn't be in this movie. Already, it's bloated. I would also argue that Superman's inspiration to continue being a hero in the face of negative public and press attention should come from his mother, Martha, and Lois. They're the humans he cares for the most. They're his window to the wider human world. They're his reason to keep on fighting. That's a much stronger motivation than Diana, who he (and the audience) has no personal connection with. (It also hearkens back to one of Man of Steel's biggest problems: Superman getting advice from some random Priest when he should have gone to Jor-El, the father he spent time bonding with). All in all, I really enjoyed this video.
"So for that reason I'm taking Wonder Woman out-" yeeees applause. Put her in an after credits scene. The only reason they didn't have one is because they wanted to be different than marvel. No, do that, but DC.
Agree with you most of the complains but only one thing you didn't seem to understand is the Dreams of batman is set up for the snyders next movie after justice league "The KnightMare" it was a teaser for that movie and its not a dream its his vision of his alternate timeline
It's been a while since I watched this movie. But Wonder Woman responds to the crisis when Doomsday is about to wreck the city. You could argue that she is the one who sees that power brings responsibility when she jumps into the fight. Then Batman and Superman realize it too from her example. But other events sort of muddy the waters thematically. This could be her character arc, if done right. I don't think it really works as presented in the movie.
What if WW is sent on a mission to reclaim the God Killer sword by the Amazons. Her mother learns that it is here, in Man's World. This would be the Sword of Alexander we saw in the movie. If she retrieves it, in preparation for some threat the Amazons are preparing for, she can be forgiven and allowed to return to Themyiscira. She cannot reveal its true nature to anyone. She has to bring it home.
Batman also wants this sword to fight Superman. She and Bruce Wayne come into conflict when he bids on the sword at the auction and wins it. She steals it from him, forcing him to go with plan B: Kryptonite.
When she learns of the battle with Doomsday, she's about to leave for home. She has to choose whether to join the battle, knowing the sword could hurt or kill Doomsday and save many lives, or return home with it. She chooses to help.
Suggestion: The part where Superman asks Batman if she's with him and he says he thought she was with Superman. Instead, upon seeing her attack Doomsday, Batman says, "I think we're with her."
HOW ABOUT THIS? Coming into this movie, Batman had the initial motive set from the previous film, all he would need is to be pushed further. This could come in as aid from Lex Luther and an obscure project to reform the dead body of Zod into Bizarro Superman. I'd been fight if he'd even kept Zods face. This way the director could have implemented some spooky horror themes of the blueish purple hue zooming in the midst of various attacks or sabotages, to the degree where we don't really see his face, in attempt to frame him; and later to draw Superman out and have them face off. Upon the various moments Bruce W, Clark K, are in public together, their opinions of Superman could be addressed, as Bruce weighs in heavy, Clark set to defend knowing he's been trying to track and chase down the imposter who looks like him. Upon a massive sabotage, also orchestrated by lex luthor, towards a fictional Luther and Wayne project/merger to bring (idk) power to poor neighborhood with an experimental energy arch. Superman could arrive, finally witness Bizarro's mien and briefly fight before Superman turn to stabilized the Power Arch. It's here Batman arrives and maybe even the forgotten hero in this film, Wonder Woman. They fight and as the bought starts with Batman and Superman, Superman attempts to explain, THEN Wonder Woman comes in, increasing the difficulty to speak, while being posisined by Batman's kryptonite mist and captured by WW's Lasso, he reveals the Truth. Better motive, better movie, thus no need for my personal trade mark question to movies with pointless appearances of the love interest, "WHY IS SHE HERE?" in regard to Louis lane. She had NOOOO reason to be there. 10 seconds is all he need to explain himself, Superman's all out fight in the previous movie, Bizarro's apparent attacks and uncertain resemblance to Superman would have been the necessary motive Batman to fight and for Wonder Woman to come to town in the first place. As the Superman quickly regains his strength, the team bands together with the kryptonite spear in hand to use against Bizzaro. Bizzaro, "Zod", mental capacity is fractured and he returns to his master, a trail Alfred has discovered and relays to the team. This way they discover the master mind and defeat the monster. After an epic battle, Superman decide they should not kill the same man twice and votes to imprison Bizzaro and Lex. (This way they could use in a sequel to fight the REAL Dooms Day upon his space origins from Krypton). Bro! We don't even get paid what they do and write better movies.
Batman V Superman was like a sloppy rushed version of The Boys. Granted it did sit the stage for stories like this to be adapted to screens. The problem was it posed a great question but didn't really bother to answer it.
Totally agree with you about the ridiculous reason they fought. It abandons the philosophical debate begun in the first half. What would have been an interesting question would be "what happens when 2 all powerful individuals disagree?" Both are vigilantes with zero checks or accountability and arguably no limits. The second half should have been dedicated to showing their equality in a hand if one up man ship. Watch the animated adventures of Superman to see a great introduction of the 2 heroes.
Superman's story in the film should have more about him trying to gain the public's trust after the fight with Zod. Because many people are afraid of him, they don't trust him, the government don't trust him. Then there's Luthor who hates him. From his fame of rebuilding a damaged Metropolis, his fortune and super-genius intellect, Luthor should have been under the belief that he was a god himself. The film should have been mostly from Superman's perspective. Batman during most of the film should have been a villain, or at least believed to be a villain who was being framed by Luthor. While already believed a villain throughout the movie, the bombing of the Capital could have also been used to setup Batman even more. This gives Superman the reason to fight Batman. Now Superman slamming into the ground before the fight would make more sense. Probably my BIGGEST grip of BvS is the fact that they killed Superman in just his 2nd film. That said, I didn't mind Doomsday being in the film. For those who have seen the Justice league animated series remembers that Doomsday was a returning villain. This is how Doomsday could have been handled in the DCEU, it gives some character development from a raging Hulk-like monster to a intelligent talking killer. The fight with Doomsday could have ended with the nuke in orbit. Superman survives and Doomsday believed dead returns later in the DCEU. As for Wonder Woman, I would have removed her from the Doomsday fight as well. Gal Gadot's casting could have been the biggest secret of the film. The reveal of WW from the photograph could have been used an end credit scene.
This was the year that Disney and Warner Bros. studio spies were in full effect - look at Marvel and DC’s big movies that year - Batman v Superman and Captain America Civil War. In many ways they are almost the same story - both feature iconic heroes pitted against each other because of both personal beliefs and being held accountable for collateral damage - look at the films promotional posters too - they are practically identical. Marvel did it better though - the writing in Civil War was a lot more logical and the reasons Tony wanting to fight Cap were brilliantly realised.
I have to crack up these “I fix…” screenwriting videos. Checked this dude’s filmography and it’s a grand total of 1 credit for writing a short 5 years ago. Can’t imagine why WB isn’t knocking your down throwing moneybags at you to get you to fix their superhero franchise 🙄 .
You sure you've seen the ultimate cut of this movie. I don't think you have. Bcz if you had you'd know that the chair had lead in it which is why he couldn't see the bomb. The entire controversy was why didn't Superman save the people by identifying the bomb.
This isn't bad actually. Only issue is that you perfectly set up the reason why batman is after superman, but not a reason why superman would fight batman outside of self defense. Up until the fight, we don't even know if superman is aware of batman
Being a person that still enjoys this movie till this day, I've got to say that I love your take and that most of your points make sense. I still enjoy the movie the way it is but your restructuring of this movie is very insightful. I'm glad I've found your video. I'm currently working on a screenplay that would jumpstart my superhero cinematic universe. Hopefully when I am finished with the script, you could take a look and give me insightful feedback and help! Thanks!
The things you pointed out as problems aren't. -The Knighmare sequence is the reason why Batman decides to kill Superman. Before that moment, he wasn't really sure about killing him. Of course is to set up the sequels, but it has a purpose in the story. -Clark wasn't blamed for the Capitol bombing. It's stated that the suspect of the bombing was Keith, the one in the wheelchair. Clark was blamed for NOT stopping the bombing for the same philosophical question you stated was the core of the film (even though it's more complex than that) and because of that, people suspected of him being complicit of the bombing. -I'm not sure if you're criticizing the story of the theatrical release or the Ultimate Edition (because in one moment you talk about your experience on the cinema but then you use footage of the Ultimate, AKA The Director's Cut). I say this because you say that Superman didn't show when and why he leaves the Capitol in the theatrical release, but in the Ultimate Edtion is shown how guilty he fells about the explosion and that the people around him doesn't want him anymore. Remember the clip were Clark is told by a paramedic to give him room to work? For a guy that is supposed to know about story, didn't you get the meaning of that line and Clark's reaction to the tragedy around him? But even without that part, in the theatrical release in the scene in Lois's apartment they both talked about the incident he saying "I didn't see it, Lo. Standing right there and I didn't see it." and she saying "Clark, there are people behind this." to which he responds "I'm afraid I didn't see it because I wasn't looking." You also used that part of the movie in the video... -Clark goes to the final fight enraged for his mother's kidnaping (that's important) and tells Bruce "Bruce, please. I was wrong. You have to listen to me. Lex wants us-" and Bruce doesn't give a crap. Clark tells him "You don't undestand. There's no time." and Bruce answers "I understand". Clark was two times attacked by Bruce and that enraged him but even in that, he still was trying to reason with him. "Stay down, if I wanted it, you'll be dead already." This Superman is shown to be more unstable that other iterations and the scene is appropiate for the character he is. -And lastly, the Martha scene was actually ridiculed because "Clark should've said to Batman to save his mother instead of calling her for her first name" but before that moment Bruce says "I bet your parents taught you you mean something. That you're here for a reason. My parents taught a different lesson. Dying in the gutter for no reason at all.". In that line he practically says to Clark "I don't care about your parents".
Exactly. At that moment there was nothing Clark could have said to Bruce to change his mind. It was important for Bruce as a character to only step out of this mindset once he has the opportunity to stab Superman. Having Superman being really into the fight would have cause some plotholes too, because he actually would have killed him if he wanted to. The fight works in the movie because Superman was in defense mode and after he got exposed to the kryptonite it was a matter of survival. He never uses his laser beams for a reason.
No matter how much you try to put logic into the fight scene and the Martha name call, it still makes no sense. Let's be honest here, the reason it played out the way it did was for the sake of having a long fight scene. Superman had plenty of opportunities to simply tell Batman to "wait" or "stop", "I'm not here to fight you". After Superman tossed Batman to the ground, he could have told Batman about Lex. But what's funny about that is Batman should have already known that Superman wasn't a threat. He's had 18 months to study Superman.
@@theloniouskey the movie makes it clear that Batman is not willing to listen, no matter how many opportunities Superman had to explain to him. Even when he says "Save Martha" Batman thinks he's playing mind games with him. It takes Lois to step in and explain to him what he's trying to say. And Batman knows Superman is not necessarily a threat right now, he's trying to take him down on the possibility that one day he might turn around on his principals and destroy the world. That's the reason they had him having that knightmare premonition where he sees Superman turned into an evil tyrant. You could have Batman studying Superman for 18 months saving cats from the trees and still he would fight him, because he's considering that 1% chance that he might become evil one day.
I like your version but I will say this. I would’ve kept the bvs fight the same and warehouse fight maybe switch out the people he took Superman in custody to with lex’s guys so Batman can be just as brutal without worry about being an enemy of the government. Movies are still a visual medium and action when it works narratively within a story can make it even more engaging and thrilling. Also just curious, what are some of you’re favorite superhero movies based on how well written they are?
Good take on the BvS nonesense, you should watch filmento’s “BvS should have been about the dead of Robin” video, it’s also a much better tale over the final movie.
Instead of creating doomsday, I prefer luthor to create kryptonite suit to kill superman, he beat Superman badly, but batman saves superman in the end, cause killing off superman in his second appearance is still too rush.
I gotta say, Batman v Superman is definitely my top fav CBM despite some flaws. I love the tone, acting, action, music and cinematography. However, my biggest gripe with the movie has always been the fight between Batman and Superman as it felt unreasonable. I gotta say, your idea of making Superman a vigilante definitely makes it 100x better. The only thing I gotta say is, in my opinion the Martha scene works for me. It shown to Batman how he is now in the position of Joe Chill, a murderer. The name Martha was just the anchor that reminded him of his trauma. The whole point was that it shown him how human Superman is. He has a mother, making him a person now, not just an alien with the power to destroy the world.
what I don't understand is why there no Courageous Cat vs Mighty Mouse cartoon. Since Courageous Cat is based on Batman and Mighty Mouse is based on Superman it seems this crossover would be obvious..
An important part of Batman and Superman's characters in the comics is that they refuse to kill, which this film flat out ignored. I think HiTop Films did a great job explaining that with the video, "Batman Does NOT Kill", which also rewrites the Martha scene from this movie to work much better.
HiTop films, really? That guy cannot write to save his life, and this Batman does not behave in any way Batman hasn't behave in comics, movies or videogames. Do I need to remind you about the temple full of Ninjas Bruce killed in Batman Begins? The factory Batman blew up in Batman? How about the times he left KGBeast to die in either a basement or in the middle of the forest in the comics?
@@AlvinFlang69420 bale didn't murder them. it was man slaughter and the deaths weren't even confirmed if i remember.. meanwhile batfleck is a ruthless psychopath
I think Pheonix Studios rewrite was the best. I wish it was the real one we get. Altough NandovMovies didn't fully rewrite the movie, his video about one small change in the movie was really great too
Dude, please fix that movie called Passangers with Jennifer Lawrence and Chris Pratt. I like that movie but couldve been such a great thriller if they hid one of the secrets of the movie to the third act.
@@UltimateKyuubiFox I've just watched. His idea would've been great too. Me, personally, would prefer more of a true horror 3rd act with pratt coming to kill jennifer and to then waking up someone else or his ending but with her killing him but then ending up lonely just like him. Either way, seeing Pratt playing a psycho would be a hell of a twist.
Dude... You just didn't get it. Superman says "Save Martha" (his mother), Batman gets thrown off because he thinks it's his mother. Lois Lane explains it's Superman's mother, which, all of sudden, makes Superman, an alien, humanized in Batman's eyes. That's what defuses the whole thing and gets Batman to relate to Superman.
Ther plan was not to make people into believing superman trigger the bomb, but that he do nothing to prevent the explosion of the bomb. Superman is allmighty in the eye of the public. he's strong, he's fast and see everything. The plan was to make people into believing Superman can choose his battle and do nothing for you if he wants to. And this was just a little part of the plan. The Real plan was to trigger Batman by reinforcing the fears he can have with superman. Lex Set up the conflict between Batman and Superman. This is all he want from the start. Well not exactly all he want... because this is a multi layer plan. A plan where he wins whatever happens. Batman loose? This is a proof for the public that superman is dangerous. Superman is killed, all gods can be killed. The two of them die? It's even better... one stone two bird. Batman and Superman Teams-up? well Doomsday is here. Talking about him... Well, if they both die, he gain more control about what he can do, more weapon, gain the public opinion by prooving that "Gods" can be dangerous and imperfect. The only things luthor didn't plan was Wonder Woman.
@@connorhighland6783 All the evidence were in the movie... Luthor explaining his motivation multiple time and mostly in front of superman. Batman being tricked by the false letters from the disabled graffiti artist, even this is explained by luthor in front of superman. The kryptonite delibaratly giving to batman, giving him the possibility to kill superman. The encounter between Clark Kent and Bruce Wayne is set up by Luthor. Everything is explained in the movie, and most of it can be understand by what luthor says to superman... we just have to link all the evidence.
I’m trying to think what else you could’ve done instead of using doomsday still I know people were pretty upset they used him in the movie felt it was too soon
5:29 Okey I'll stop you there... No it doesn't work as you describe tho. Bc Superman already came before even Lex pushed Lois. Lex expected her to die. So Clark would now have only one woman Left. (His adoptive human mother, which He considers the "special lady".) And about the Bomb and Sups scaping, Superman thinks he provoqued such attack. And he thinks he IS guilty for not tracking thea Bomb in time. He is Superman and still wasn't able to save all of those people. That's the EXTREMELY Clear point mate. I'm more surprised how you missed that. At least for Clark & even Lois Till that point. (Also they didn't knew who give Wally the wheelchair) (that's found a day later) this wasn't against anyone else but to f*** Superman's only chance to talk. And the results that Lex was looking for were clear: more Division. More Chaos and confusion. The movie actually shows many perspectives, Now people think Sups is attracting terrorists. Other citizens sure think is all BS bc they trust Superman. And we even get the reporters pov with some throwing clickbait titles like Sups being a co-conspirator.
"Batman has a chip on his shoulder." Dude, no! 😂 You played the clip, I don't understand why you're confused. Batman is afraid of Superman because he could destroy humankind in a blink of a second. Okay, maybe it would take a few minutes... But that's it. He saw what Superman was able to do to Metropolis unintentionally, imagined what he could have done intentionally? There is no chip in no one's shoulder, you're overreaching.
You make some very interesting points but your rewrite doesn't really convince me. There's one thing I'd like to react on in particular, which is your choice to cut Wonder Woman, the knightmare sequence and the Justice League teaser. These movies have to be looked at like a TV show. Each episode is part of a bigger, overarching story and it's only when you take all the episodes together that you get the whole picture. In a good TV show, not every storyline is resolved by the end of an episode, not every character's identity is revealed, or their motivations explained, etc. This happens when you get to the end of the season, or multiple seasons in most cases. By cutting everything out, you're basically making this movie a one-off. Nothing wrong with that but it's a completely different approach to storytelling. The challenge for Snyder was to set up a whole universe while delivering on people's expectation and offering them a satisfying movie experience. If your ambition is to offer a rewrite, you have to try and do the same IMO.
Tyler. I really enjoy watching your videos. I have given a lot of thought to contacting you to work with me on my film ideas. As a long-time DC Comic fans still find several issues with this story in general. I do think your version plays out better than Snyder's. I do think you have brought Diana in this fairly easily. I also think you could have introduced the Martian Manhunter as well. He would be the link that mediates a sense of peace between the two heroes. The problems that still exist are simple. First, Snyder never explains how Luthor knows both men's true identities. Second, how do Wayne and Luthor figure out Clark's weakness to kryptonite? The two biggest issues I still have with the film are twofold; Doomsday was not created in a lab. The battle between the two DC giants was from a Frank Miller novel that saw Superman as a pawn in the Reagan-era United States. He was responsible for the dismantling of the Justice League. Another issue that is close to my heart is the use of a non-disabled actor being put in the role of a double leg amputee and then used as the device which Luthor uses to blow up the proceedings. It simply never needed to occur and Scooty McKnuclehead is not a big enough name to justify his green screen amputation. It just serves as yet another bastardization of a disabled person through the lens of Hollywood. Thanks for letting me voice this.
Want a reason for Batman to want to fight Superman? Make it so Superman inadvertantly caused the death of Robin ..or Alfred...it makes it personal. Dont be afraid to go there....Want a reason for Batman to realize the error of his ways? Have the fight with Superman spill out in front of some kids who conicidentally worship the man of steel ...the child is weeping crying over his fallen hero . Maybe he's looking for his lost parents who are buried somewhere under the rubble of their fight ...Want a common enemy for Batman and Superman to unite against? METALLO...a great payoff for all of those Kryptonite easter eggs the movie dropped
Well I would kick Wonder Woman out because she doesn’t serve anything, second I would recast Lex because this version doesn’t really fit in because he’s very cartoonish and from Phoenix Studios says that if his reason to hate was all about his dad and that we think Lex’s is crazy makes his motivations completely invalid and thirdly I would have brought in Metallo as that no-legged man which was a missed opportunity. What do you think about fixing both Wonder Woman movies?
But... the "source material" that was used to make Doomsday WAS a Kryptonian, General Zod, and he is exactly like Superman. And as such, should be similarly effected by the same things as Superman, and vice versa.
@@Rejoice1631 But Zod's body was genetically altered. It's not a normal Kryptonian. Think of it as a mutant. If you shoot Wolverine and a normal person. Wolverine heals but the normal person is terribly wounded, even though they are both human. Doomsday is a Kryptonian mutation.
The point of the trial is not to frame Superman for murder. The point of let's blowing up the capital is to show that Superman is not All-powerful. If you can prove that Superman is not All-powerful then you're proving that hes not all good. Let's Luther explains his motivations by the end of the movie. And even without it look at the meta reaction of audience members and how they feel about Superman I think lex did his job properly. Well Lexus B have if you can prove Superman's inefficiency as a Superman's Superman's inefficiency as a superhero or point to him not being good, then you can justify Creating deterrents to Stop and eventually kill him.
Proving he's not all powerful has absolutely nothing to do with if he's all good? So since a baby isn't strong its evil? If anything that would make Superman sympathetic or at worst incompetent.
Movie doesn’t have to be fixed. It wasn’t made in relation to any other superhero movie. It was made by a director who’s favorite movie of all time is John boorman’s Excalibur, which elevates a mythological story to stagecraft instead of watering it down to a relatable reality. Nothing about BvS is intended to be realistic. It’s instead designed to set a general tone about its heroes and icons. If you come away thinking, “neither Superman nor Batman was the guy to root for,” you are supposed to feel that way. Our icons are broken and we made them that way. We’ve lost our way with what Superman actually means because we hang onto a certain image of him. This is what the movie is about most centrally. You’re trying to turn the movie into something it’s absolutely not in spirit
Except for a deconstruction the Heroes have heroic traits like a moral code or desire to do good like in Watchmen and The Dark Knight Returns, which convey the consequences and morally grey actions of heroism, the BvS ones don't have any heroic traits
I'm sorry Tyler. Even your version of it still seems messed up. Batman's deeper motivation to fight Superman "he wants to win" is a flawed motivation. Because the idea of Batman being jealous of Superman is ridiculous. He's just paranoid about a being like Superman. It's Luthor who jealous that Superman has replaced humanity in the hierarchy. Also Batman didn't do much in Act.2 Part.1, which doesn't complete his story circle. I'd like to understand why that's the case. Also it's not like the characters are going through more than the external change at the end of each act. So it's really not so interesting. Also the TITLE of the movie yet to be changed, because we still have to wait for almost 3 acts to complete to witness their fight. If I'm wrong about anything, please let me know.
This was my initial reaction too. It doesn't seem like Batman to be so petty as to be jealous, but now I actually do think it can be a believable flaw. Even in the original, Alfred challenges Bruce about his motivation, so it's there. But let's assume that too is a problem in the original. Even in the comics iteration, there is a level of conflict between Batman and Superman. It's similar to Cp American and Iron Man. I wouldn't say jealousy is the main element of those issues, but if you think about it, there is an awful lot of ego involved in them. Ultimately, they're all still human beings (Clark raised by human beings) struggling with relatable flaws. Jealousy, if shown to be deep and not superficial, is a powerful one that even the good guys have been depicted as struggling with. I'm not sure if this would make me like the movie though, but maybe!
You do know, that Batman is also motivated by the dangers of Superman too right? It was stated right at the beginning when Batman witnesses the death of his friend as well Tyler's want for Batman being to keep Superman in check.
@@chavinchacon5517 I do know that and I've stated that clearly in my comment. I've stated that Batman is paranoid regarding Superman because of the trajedies he witnessed in the beginning of the movie.
@@slappyfun A person like Batman cannot be related to normal people. Because he's extremely disciplined and flawless, more than an average person can be. Which makes him one of the most competent superheroes, inspite of having no powers. Hence Batman having a flaw (ego or jealousy) like any other person, conveniently making him more human is, in my opinion, rubbish.
For me, I think the biggest issue of the movie is it's tone. They took the idea of a goofy concept of "Batman vs. Superman" WAY too seriously. It just doesn't work as a gritty-violent, political movie grounded in reality. You have no memorable dialogues that isn't dark and sad. You have no uplifting characters and make Batman and Superman cold blooded killers or seeing Jimmy Olsen get shot on screen. It should be more like the World's Finest crossover where it's a consistently mature story but is still fun and embraces the comic elements and doesn't try to overthink itself like a deep arthouse movie. Even the title is too embarrassed to have the "s" in "vs." like they're trying to make it sound like a court room drama. Who tf would wanna watch that!?! Also, it's too focused on trying to make a dozen sequels like setting up a Wonder Woman movie, a Flash movie, a Justice League movie while also adapting stories that don't connect like The Death of Superman and Dark Knight Returns. All in a Superman sequel nonetheless!!! Those are stories made based on years of stories we've grown to see and those two were made for those who's grown with the characters but this is the second DCEU movie and they're too occupied focusing on every movie in their series at once. Imagine The Incredible Hulk had Tony in the middle of the movie, have Thor appear, and a side plot with Black Widow's story in Iron Man 2. It's missing it's core element and that's THE HULK himself. That's this movie. It should just be a simple story of two heroes leaning to accept each other and agree on the same plan and the two trying to stop Lex and even Joker. (But not a punk version. More of a Ledger/Nicholson hybrid)
Iron Man 2 pretty much does that: it introduces Black Widow as a side story, expands on the plans regarding The Avengers, it involves not one but two villains directly connected to Stark and sets up The Incredible Hulk. This isn't a story about just Batman or Superman. It's a story about both and the conflict they have. I know you want all superhero movies to be cookie cutter, but grow up.
Even this new version is still wrong because both superman and Batman are acting out of character. Batman wouldn't want to attack Batman sure he will have a contagency but only if superman starts killing people and not because of his ego. Batman doesn't kill superman hates fights, he's a symbol of hope and peace
Batman isn't acting out of character. There is a literal GOD in the world. And batman doesn't want him to live without the consequenses. And this movie is about challenging batman and his no kill rule. When doomsday introduced he decides to let superman go to prove superman is here for humanity and Superman defeats Doomsday and proves batman wrong. Overall it could have worked better.
@@Exodius101he literally kills a bunch of Mercenaries and nearly kills superman out of ego and no real smart reason (that's something a Frank Castle aka Punisher would do not a batman character) so wtf are you taking about,🤦. He decides to let superman go because of "Martha" yeah that's a very high level of competency for a Batman character, wtf happened to detective interrogative batman because this "batman" tries to kill superman without even hearing his POV, this is not batman its Punisher
I like the rewrites a lot! But still feel unconvincing why Batman stops fighting. Remembering Alfred words and choosing to hand Superman over to the government doesn't seem in line with the movie's ruthless Batfleck
@@UltimateKyuubiFox I'm not sure the rewrite shows a more compassive, feet to the ground Batfleck. None of his backstory or motivations were changed, nor his intense want
18:38 "Ready to give the killing blow." Not just no, but fuck no. Snyder had this *eagerness* for making the heroes kill throughout the Snyderverse, personally I hated it. But one of the things that made this fight interesting, and one of things I think he did right in his fight, was that Superman and Batman had different objectives in the fight. Batman wanted to kill what he saw was an existential threat to humanity. Superman wanted to subdue Batman.
-Batman’s dream sequence is part of a larger act. Not unlike how a scene of an episode of a series sets up a latter episode. -Batman was already preparing to fight Superman -Luthor’s point with the Bomb was to make everyone see that not only Superman is fallible, but also that chaos follows him around. -Superman DID stay and help others, it wasn’t until he was told to go away that he left -He doesn’t know that the guy in the chair works for Lex Luthor -He didn’t see the bomb, that’s what has him upset. That’s what he talked to Lois about. He blames himself because the guy in the chair is the same guy that on TV said that Superman was responsible for everything. -Superman tries to explain what happened, and Bruce refused to listen. -Superman did fight, warning him three times to stay down -The Martha scene puts him into a PTSD, and makes him realize that Superman is still human at heart. With all the respect you deserve, you clearly didn’t watch the movie. And your “fix” makes a movie that is a cult film that we keep talking almost a decade after its release, into a generic superhero movie.
@@TomEyeTheSFMguy Stalking and looking for my comments now? Great! For the record, people aren't talking about the film being poor. People talk about how it was misunderstood on its time. That's what "cult classic" means. Do you even know what you're talking about? Oh wait, you unironically have a pepe profile pic. It's like talking to an angry, racist kid on xbox live. It removes all the nuances from the characters, making it all focus on "OMG THEY'RE FIGHTING!!"
@@AlvinFlang69420 Imagine genuinely thinking profile pics have anything to do with how a person will interact. It truly doesn't. You just use it as an excuse to put a person in a specific group without anything real to go by. Also, I only found your comment cause I was scrolling through the comment section. Cuz, y'know, people fucking do that.
@@AlvinFlang69420 Also, imagine missing the point the fixed version is making that hard. You seem to have this version and the original mixed, buddy. The original makes it more about the fact that they're fighting, while the fixed version adds nuance to the story. And honestly, imma need to see a genuine, credible argument with credible evidence as to how BVS is "misunderstood."
@@TomEyeTheSFMguy Nice way to try and spin and defend the fact that not only you don't know what a cult film is, but also that it was just part of my entire argument. The "fixed" version has no nuance. As far as the movie being misunderstood, the proof is on this video. Every complaint he had on the movie is directly addressed and taken care of in the movie, as I pointed out in my comment which you didn't read and just responded to bitch about.
Roger Ebert use to call it "the idiot plot syndrome". It's where conflict could be settled with one sentence, but in order to keep things going, people act like idiots and don't say it.
I’m sorry but I hate it when people do this. This is someone else’s art. We agree it sucked, but from a subjective view you did not fix shit. It’s super arrogant.
Get Practical Tools to Write Your Great Screenplay: www.practicalscreenwriting.com
After this? I'd think you'd have to pay me to listen to you.
@@AlvinFlang69420 LOL, imagine being butthurt for a movie rewrite video😆😆😆😆 no wonder why u guys gets called "Snyder cultists"
Really enjoying the "I Fixed..." series!! Learning a lot from them.
My suggestion for Diana's role in the new version of Batman V Superman: she holds the same beliefs as Alfred, which compells a scene with the two characters.
I agree, but It's already an over crowded movie. I think Tyler made the right call.
Tyler did, however, if we had gotten Wonder Womans movie first, a movie about the good in people and a movie about how Wonder Woman had saved the world before, knowing her and Batman have a relationship, having her side with Superman would have been ideal.
My Suggestion for Diana's place in the story would be almost a role model for Superman. She has been doing the Hero thing longer than Bruce and Clark combine. Clark seeing her still fighting for good after years of being The Wonder Woman with the power she holds could be inspiring and a convo between both about advice revolving around what a hero is and what a hero needs to be. Something along the lines of "No matter what someone somewhere is going to hate you because of the power you hold for good or evil, but in those moments you have to remember why you are doing this." A discussion around the difficulties of the "Super Hero biz" and that even Superman a "god" needs to talk things over sometimes. And for Bruce seeing that there are Heros out there who he doesn't feel he needs to be able to kill could reassure him that having a talk with Superman like what the trial should have been to humanize the all powerful superman would be enough to be able to move on from "Kill Superman" and move to stop Luthor. Together. That convo would likely take place somewhere in the late 2nd act or early 3rd.
Well you thought that 1984 was really questionable and you could have just write her out of the film
You win. This is a great rebuke to batman. God like power must have checks but Diana is the same and doesn't need checks. The one problem with it is that Batman is playing a zero sum game. "If there is even a 1% chance..." What happens if Superman or WW choose to destroy humans because they decide that humans are the great evil to the world. Low probability event but an ever present existential crisis.
I really liked this video. Not only did your changes seem appropriate, but you pointed out flaws and proposed improvements to the movie without the condescending 'know-it-all' attitude that most film youtubers have (being frankly hateful to most movies for the sake of clicks, and really not better than most actual screen writers). I hope you continue having some more 'I fixed' videos, because your professional and respectful approach to analyzing films and their screenplays is more of what film RUclips needs.
I actually like the Matha scene. Not the first time I saw it, but the second time.
At this point, Batman realizes that Superman is not a soulless god. He is a "boy from Kansas" and who also has a mother, just like Bruce did. So he could be responsible for a boy losing his mother again! This is a very deep emotional anker, just by having the mothers sharing the same name, which is actually quite genius I think and which Luther could have totally missed, because it's so simple. It definetly wasn't set-up well enough though. And It's very true, that the reason they fight was just very weak. Great video. :D
FINALLY SOMEONE UNDERSTANDS IT
Ooh that court scene is very ideologically interesting!
This is one of the simplest fixes I’ve seen for this movie. Great video!
Good suggestions. As likable as the film was, it had so much more potential. I think Diana's role could've been trimmed without fully removing; same goes for the Knightmare sequence. It'd be nice to see an 'I fixed Justice League' too.
There's an entire movie that already fixes Justice league
@@diegoclark7697 😏 true
Even with all the flaws, this movie has still a special place in my heart
I must admit the extended edition was really good and a lot easier to understand than the theatrical cut
Same i dont know why but i kinda like it somehow
No one is perfect especially who judges someone
The other interesting lesson I took from this was that the Dual Protagonist format faltered because the antagonist was relatively weak. Lex doesn’t hold up here, so it undermines the whole narrative
The End.......and a tone of Oscar nomination 👏 🙌 😁 now that was the work of a great script doctor
Loved it and yeah, your version has Batman as the protagonist, while Superman basically just reacts to events. It's still not "two heroes".
The first misstep in the story was that foreign village incident. It wasn't necessary at all, and only serves to have Louis chase a ghost bullet. The court scene should've been focused on Superman being questioned about his fight with Zod and how much of a potential danger he could be. The fallout of that city fight with Zod would've led to a huge public enquiry, but the film shifted all of that pointlessly to villagers being killed, mainly off screen.
That was all needless padding that added unnecessary complexity to the plot.
Lex's motives were also undefined, especially given his rants about God, only to later reveal he was taking to Steffenwolf and was going to bring gods down to earth anyway, only without Superman's protection.
Batman already had a decent motive to stop Superman which was shown in the opening. He didn't need letters from an anonymous Lex to add to that. In fact, Lex wasn't really needed at all. That was more complexity padding that could've been thinned.
The major missing ingredient was why Batman was such a pyscho. That would've been a wonderful sub plot to explore in the character. They briefly referenced Robin's death, but it wasn't enough to justify his zero tolerance approach to justice. Had took more time to set up what made him snap, that would've been reason enough to draw him and Sups into a fight, but instead, they padded it out with bat branding and pee jars. Then his redemption was just in the spur of the moment, and suddenly all that rage was gone.
The whole film was just a waste of so much potential.
But I still like the direction you've taken anyway. Keep up the good vids
@Erik Kemeey that's not enough justification on Lex's part. There's nothing in his character that establishes any of that other than bland philosophical ramblings. That, on top of the 'plan', was nothing but convoluted nonsense.
Batman had the perfect motivation already set up in seeing his building and friends killed in the fight between Kal and Zod. Nothing else was needed. But all the screen watching, dream sequences, anonymous letters, etc, were all nonsensical, convoluted plot fillers. His inner rage would've been better explored in a separate scene to let us see what pushed him over the edge. A quick shot of Robin's suit and his then complete redemptive transformation at the end was nonsense. Everything was half baked because they shoved so much pointless plot padding into the script. And the whole DCEU was detailed as a result.
I think this would make an amazing movie. I love this superman and how the second act is a lot cleaner. my only issue is how you wrote batman. I understand him having this change of heart to superman and stuff but the way you wrote him doesn't feel like batman. super well done otherwise though
Your point about Wonder Woman is great, and we didn't get her movie till after, but considering how few Allies Super Man has, if we had gotten Wonder Woman first, it would have been cool to see the viewpoint of how a super powered individual saved the world before, especially someone Batman historically has a relationship with.
Probably the biggest issue I had with BVS is they came too close to making Batman a villain. It is my head cannon theory that Lex had a similar plan to kidnap someone important to Bruce as well (Alfred) and force Batman into the fight to the death too, but Lex didn't bother because of Bruce Wayne's lack of humanity and over willingness to commit murder. Bruce Wayne was way too self-righteous for my personal tastes. This would have been fine if Batman was supposed to be a villain. Ben Afleck did a great job playing the part. It is the way the part was written that I have issue with.
Your remake did fix some of the other minor issues I had with it though. In the original, since when does Superman respond to the bat signal? How did Batman know Superman would come if he used the bat signal? Why did Superman bother going to Batman anyway? He should have skipped that step, and just rescued Martha himself.
Because in the first meeting when the Batmobile struck Superman, Superman warns Batman to not go the signal the next time it's used. He wanted to end the Bat's vigilantism.
@@shanegill5944 My memory might be off, but Still Superman never said anything that suggested he would if he did.
Wait, in this version there is no motivation for superman to fight Batman, unless Luthor made it seem like Batman was the one who kidnapped Lois. Even then why would he fight him to the death after he had saved her and none of Batman’s weapons hurt him? Batman’s use of kryptonite has to be at the start of the fight to make it possible and to have superman be in panic mode/fighting for his life.
If this had been the story, it could have been a modern classic.
I only agree with the court trial being more developed before the bomb explodes, but other than that, it feels like a watered down and very safe version of the original plot. Replacing Bruce's motivation with ego instead of fear caused by his ptsd, it doesn't carry the same punch for his change of heart later on. He makes lots of mistakes throughtout the movie because his not thinking clearly, and that's interesting. I prefer having him making these bad choices not because his inmature and wants to be better than Superman but because he's really determined to kill him, because he's deeply traumatized. His reasoning for killing Superman as a priority it's not 100% genuine, he's in denial. He fears Superman because that destruction he witnessed in Metropolis was the first time in over 30 years he felt truly powerless, the first time being the death of his parents.
The name drop of Martha it doesn't actually has to do with the coincidence, but it was a reminder of how low he has fallen. Their mothers could have got different names and I'm sure the writer would have come up with another element that would have reminded him the death of his parents. The name was probably used because they thought it was a clever way to tie the current situation with the flashback.
I like that the wayne's murder is included in the story because I consider this movie to be a Batman origin story for the DCEU but not a traditional one. The death of the Waynes is the equivalent of how he got his superhero powers, but instead of having to see how he becomes Batman, we see how he goes back to be the ideal Batman after 20 years of losing faith in the goodness of man. The sacrifice of Superman, the man he was trying to kill, retores this hope he had lost for a long while and sets up his motivation for the next movie that is based on regret. This element will be lost if he just forgives him during the fight because he recalls some advice from Alfred, and then when he sees Superman sacrificing his life to kill Doomsday, Bruce wouldn't have any fault in this decision. Superman ends up dead in BvS because how blind Bruce's actions are, what makes him not realize he was being manipulated by Lex, which is another key element you took out.
I don't know. I feel like you just sold me a functional version of the story but a less memorable and impactful one. Interesting video though
My thoughts to a T. Thank you for this comment! Tyler makes some very interesting points as usual, but I think he missed on some of the deeper meanings Snyder is trying to express. Just like a lot of his other videos, I find Tyler's approach to be overly rational and lacking some artistic spark.
You beautifully explain this I love it.
BvS Ultimate Cut does so much with worldbuilding and character arcs with such a little hiccups so it is the least movie worth time to fix
The real fix for the movie is to make Batman be Batman. This series shows him as an unhinged executioner. He brands criminals knowing this will get them killed. Batman doesn't kill. It's not just a trite statement. It's integral to the character. He does not kill because he believes in redemption. Anyone can be redeamed even the Joker. Everyone deserves the right to choose to be good. That's why Batman doesn't use guns. He uses non-lethal techniques and stealth so that he can control how much damage he inflicts and not kill. A Batman who kills is The Punisher. He wouldn't need to be a ninja or fight guys with his fists.
your take is freaking awesome
This is why I said with the movie being the way it was made they shouldn’t have titled it “Batman vs Superman, it should be titled “Dawn of Justice” the fight wouldn’t have been so focused on from audience members and that would have been more of a surprise fight, but from a marketing standpoint, pinning the fight as the main event is the bigger interest.
Superman Is supposed to be the best of all of us..he would have stayed and rescued as many people as he possibly could from that bomb explosion....not fly off like a pouty little pu$$y because his feelings were hurt!
I love your videos. They're better than any book you can buy out there!!! I'd love to see a video on fixing story structure with Justice League (maybe even the Synder cut version, since it already fixed mini issues) but also addressing why it fails in comparison to Avengers
The Best way that I know of to introduce Wonder woman in your version if you want to introduce her all be it pointless. Is in the Final Fight with Doomsday, when Batman is so injured he is forced out of the Fight. For the time being but he still has just enough strength to climb back in to his Batplane with Alfred Flying it for him as Batman is unable to fly himself, back to the spot or at least close to the spot where he stupidly ditched the Kryptonite Spear. But couldn't get at it easy needing Lois's Help who just so happens to be there. And after when Batman finally Successfully Convinces Lois that he no longer wants to use the Spear on Superman and that he No Longer sees Superman as a Threat any more or whatever. They Both Climb Back in the Batplane after retrieving the Kryptonite Spear but only this time it is Lois who is Flying the Batplane with some instruction from Batman, Back to the Fight with Doomsday. But all the while with Superman just like with Many forms of Media where Superman Fights Doomsday for the First time he is no match against Doomsday. Then that is where Wonder Woman would finally come in, as Doomsday was about to Crush Superman like a Bug. But Wonder Woman is somehow able to force Doomsday's attention off of Superman and on to her for a little Bit, then for a bit both Superman and Wonder Woman could Double Team Doomsday until Batman Returns in the Batplane with the Kryptonite in Tow. And as soon as the Doors on Batplane opens Batman Uses all of his remaining to throw the Kryptonite as close to Superman as he could. Then Maybe you could have Superman Stagger up and do his best to make his way to the Kryptonite Spear all the while Wonder Woman is doing her best in her fight against Doomsday but not having much luck. But still she'll still serve as a good enough of a Distraction Against Doomsday until Superman can get at the Kryptonite Spear to do his thing. And all the while you could maybe Tease Wonder Woman through out the Film before her Introduction in the above.
It would Not Serve as a way to Complete the Trinity but it would also it would feel a lot more productive than using Wonder Woman to Tease The other Justice League Members for the Next Film. Which In My Opinion Has Nothing to do with the BVS Film. I Think at best they should all of the in the Post Credits or Mid Credits or whatever, even if they want to do it the exact same way that they did it in the Actually Film, and it still wouldn't Affect anything as to the Regards of getting us the Audience Excited about not only about the Justice League Members but also about the up coming Justice League Film at the time.
Nightmare scene would added the scared of the batman wat superman is.. so later we saw him workin so hard, prepare the fight with supes
This is a good rewrite. I think one lingering issue is that Superman’s motives are still underdeveloped, and it’s still not clear why Superman engages in a fight with Batman. It also doesn’t seem to actually resolve the philosophical themes but rather concludes they are not as important as the intentions of the all-powerful character, which seems to only come back to the philosophical issue at hand, without actually answering the question.
It seems to me the two big issues are Superman’s lack of well-defined motivations, and Lex’s dominant role in overtly orchestrating the story’s major events.
1) It seems to me that if the philosophical themes revolve around trusting the intentions of an all-powerful being, then knowing the trustworthiness of that intent is important. But “I don’t want people to get hurt” doesn’t work when all characters present actually do hurt some people to protect others. Something more needs to be present to distinguish their actions and vantage points. Why does Superman do what he does, in the way that he does it? More importantly, since the film has two protagonists (not two antagonists, even though Bruce functions in that way for most of it), Superman’s goals actually needed to directly conflict - or rather appear to directly conflict - with Batman’s goals. That way, the conflict between them is natural, even if what prompts that conflict is manufactured.
2) This is where Lex fails to support the story. It seems that Lex’s wants are nearly identical to Bruce’s, only his motivations are more sinister. Perhaps in that case it would have worked better to keep him as a mere inciting force, creating opportunities for conflict between Superman and Batman. But that still wouldn’t be enough, because why have two characters with the same motivations leading to the same actions? No, Lex needed a primary desire separate from killing Superman that motivated his apparent goals.
Of course, for this to work, Lex’s primary desire would need to directly conflict with both Superman and Batman’s goals, in a way that connects back to the themes and questions introduced at the start. In this way, the conflict between Superman and Batman is not only natural, but a problem needing resolution, and resolving that problem exposes the true danger that requires both heroes to address. And addressing that danger would reveal an answer to the questions and themes posed by the film.
Lex would would do whatever it takes to eliminate threats regardless of casualties. Batman wants to reduce casualties but is conflicted on how to do that, such as killing Superman in this rewrite (I'm assuming Batman using machine guns to massacre villains is removed in this rewrite).
It is nice that the Marta-thing has been removed. Nice suggestion Tyler.
@Erik Kemeey Because it's flawed. Batman shouldn't have needed Superman to say "Martha" to figure out he wasn't a threat. This is a flawed Batman compared to the comics.
This is such a great video, it proves the effectiveness of the story circle
I disagree with the criticisms and changes you gave the film. I'd like to provide an argument to challenge these ideas and show that the film is not a mess. You said that basically everything up until the midpoint was solid except for the dream sequence. I mostly agree with this, although I don't think that scene is just "trailer bait". The nightmarish tone of the scene is incredibly effective at not only reinforcing Batman's motivations, but making the audience question if Superman can really be trusted.
In regards to Superman's trial, you expressed some confusion about Lex Luthor's motivation. Lex is a very jealous and ego-driven person. He hates that Superman exists because he no longer feels like he can achieve a number one status (though I know you understand that much). The reason he bombs the trial wasn't just to frame Superman, necessarily. He wants to do anything and everything he can to bring controversy to Superman, and it works. The bombing makes it even more clear to the general public within the film that everywhere Superman goes, death and destruction follows. Superman recognizes this, and considers giving up being Superman. It's exactly what Lex wanted. Also, Superman doesn’t just “leave” the trial. There is a clear time jump between scenes in which superman has helped to get any survivors out of the building. He leaves after doing his best to help, but being told by officials that they don’t feel comfortable with him there. He won’t look bad for leaving.
The next big criticism that you gave the film was in regards to the fight between Batman and Superman, saying it wasn't personal enough, and that Superman could have just explained to Batman the issue at hand. The thing is, he tries to for the entire duration of the fight. Even when he is actively attacking Batman, it's so that he can try to get him to listen. It is very personal for Superman. He is desperate to save his mother. Superman NEVER simply wants to hurt people or win a battle for the sake of it. It would be a complete betrayal of his character for him to have any motivation of actually killing or merely beating Batman. Lex Luthor needed to give him a reason to fight Batman, and that reason was Martha. Lex knows that Batman has what it takes to kill Superman.
You said that the titular fight is ended because the two of them happen to have mothers that share the same name. I think that this belittles the actual meaning of the scene. It's not just about the names of the mothers. It's about the concept of motherhood and its correlation to humanity. Batman has convinced himself that he can kill Superman because he is an alien, and not even a man. When he learns that Superman has a mother and that she is in danger, he is finally broken from his tunnel vision. He realizes that Superman is human in many ways. In a way, Superman is like the scared little boy that Batman once was, a boy torn from his mother. It's very poetic.
You ended your criticism of the film by saying that the ending actually works quite well, and I agree.
The changes you made to the film in my opinion don't work, because they frame Superman as a vigilante. That isn't what Superman is. Superman would sooner accept the restrictions of the government than betray them and cast aside their concerns.
A big question I have is if this video is about the theatrical edition of the film or the ultimate edition. It seems that you were confused about a lot of the character motivation, and the ultimate edition restores the parts that were missing in the theatrical edition.
I thought your video was well edited and very concise. I enjoyed learning your perspective, because you have an amazing knowledge of professional screenwriting!
You could add growing unrest in the US about "The Superman" following his international actions. And Diana's role could be inspiring Superman to continue doing good even in the face of adversity.
However, I still agree that Diana shouldn't be in this movie. Already, it's bloated.
I would also argue that Superman's inspiration to continue being a hero in the face of negative public and press attention should come from his mother, Martha, and Lois. They're the humans he cares for the most. They're his window to the wider human world. They're his reason to keep on fighting. That's a much stronger motivation than Diana, who he (and the audience) has no personal connection with. (It also hearkens back to one of Man of Steel's biggest problems: Superman getting advice from some random Priest when he should have gone to Jor-El, the father he spent time bonding with).
All in all, I really enjoyed this video.
"So for that reason I'm taking Wonder Woman out-" yeeees applause. Put her in an after credits scene. The only reason they didn't have one is because they wanted to be different than marvel. No, do that, but DC.
Agree with you most of the complains but only one thing you didn't seem to understand is the Dreams of batman is
set up for the snyders next movie after justice league "The KnightMare" it was a teaser for that movie and its not a dream its his vision of his alternate timeline
It's been a while since I watched this movie. But Wonder Woman responds to the crisis when Doomsday is about to wreck the city. You could argue that she is the one who sees that power brings responsibility when she jumps into the fight. Then Batman and Superman realize it too from her example. But other events sort of muddy the waters thematically. This could be her character arc, if done right. I don't think it really works as presented in the movie.
Basically, like other parts of the movie, some things would have to be shuffled around to make this work.
What if WW is sent on a mission to reclaim the God Killer sword by the Amazons. Her mother learns that it is here, in Man's World. This would be the Sword of Alexander we saw in the movie. If she retrieves it, in preparation for some threat the Amazons are preparing for, she can be forgiven and allowed to return to Themyiscira. She cannot reveal its true nature to anyone. She has to bring it home.
Batman also wants this sword to fight Superman. She and Bruce Wayne come into conflict when he bids on the sword at the auction and wins it. She steals it from him, forcing him to go with plan B: Kryptonite.
When she learns of the battle with Doomsday, she's about to leave for home. She has to choose whether to join the battle, knowing the sword could hurt or kill Doomsday and save many lives, or return home with it. She chooses to help.
Suggestion: The part where Superman asks Batman if she's with him and he says he thought she was with Superman.
Instead, upon seeing her attack Doomsday, Batman says, "I think we're with her."
HOW ABOUT THIS?
Coming into this movie, Batman had the initial motive set from the previous film, all he would need is to be pushed further. This could come in as aid from Lex Luther and an obscure project to reform the dead body of Zod into Bizarro Superman. I'd been fight if he'd even kept Zods face. This way the director could have implemented some spooky horror themes of the blueish purple hue zooming in the midst of various attacks or sabotages, to the degree where we don't really see his face, in attempt to frame him; and later to draw Superman out and have them face off. Upon the various moments Bruce W, Clark K, are in public together, their opinions of Superman could be addressed, as Bruce weighs in heavy, Clark set to defend knowing he's been trying to track and chase down the imposter who looks like him.
Upon a massive sabotage, also orchestrated by lex luthor, towards a fictional Luther and Wayne project/merger to bring (idk) power to poor neighborhood with an experimental energy arch. Superman could arrive, finally witness Bizarro's mien and briefly fight before Superman turn to stabilized the Power Arch. It's here Batman arrives and maybe even the forgotten hero in this film, Wonder Woman. They fight and as the bought starts with Batman and Superman, Superman attempts to explain, THEN Wonder Woman comes in, increasing the difficulty to speak, while being posisined by Batman's kryptonite mist and captured by WW's Lasso, he reveals the Truth.
Better motive, better movie, thus no need for my personal trade mark question to movies with pointless appearances of the love interest, "WHY IS SHE HERE?" in regard to Louis lane. She had NOOOO reason to be there. 10 seconds is all he need to explain himself, Superman's all out fight in the previous movie, Bizarro's apparent attacks and uncertain resemblance to Superman would have been the necessary motive Batman to fight and for Wonder Woman to come to town in the first place.
As the Superman quickly regains his strength, the team bands together with the kryptonite spear in hand to use against Bizzaro. Bizzaro, "Zod", mental capacity is fractured and he returns to his master, a trail Alfred has discovered and relays to the team. This way they discover the master mind and defeat the monster. After an epic battle, Superman decide they should not kill the same man twice and votes to imprison Bizzaro and Lex. (This way they could use in a sequel to fight the REAL Dooms Day upon his space origins from Krypton).
Bro! We don't even get paid what they do and write better movies.
Batman V Superman was like a sloppy rushed version of The Boys. Granted it did sit the stage for stories like this to be adapted to screens. The problem was it posed a great question but didn't really bother to answer it.
Totally agree with you about the ridiculous reason they fought. It abandons the philosophical debate begun in the first half. What would have been an interesting question would be "what happens when 2 all powerful individuals disagree?" Both are vigilantes with zero checks or accountability and arguably no limits. The second half should have been dedicated to showing their equality in a hand if one up man ship. Watch the animated adventures of Superman to see a great introduction of the 2 heroes.
Superman's story in the film should have more about him trying to gain the public's trust after the fight with Zod. Because many people are afraid of him, they don't trust him, the government don't trust him. Then there's Luthor who hates him. From his fame of rebuilding a damaged Metropolis, his fortune and super-genius intellect, Luthor should have been under the belief that he was a god himself. The film should have been mostly from Superman's perspective. Batman during most of the film should have been a villain, or at least believed to be a villain who was being framed by Luthor. While already believed a villain throughout the movie, the bombing of the Capital could have also been used to setup Batman even more. This gives Superman the reason to fight Batman. Now Superman slamming into the ground before the fight would make more sense.
Probably my BIGGEST grip of BvS is the fact that they killed Superman in just his 2nd film. That said, I didn't mind Doomsday being in the film. For those who have seen the Justice league animated series remembers that Doomsday was a returning villain. This is how Doomsday could have been handled in the DCEU, it gives some character development from a raging Hulk-like monster to a intelligent talking killer. The fight with Doomsday could have ended with the nuke in orbit. Superman survives and Doomsday believed dead returns later in the DCEU.
As for Wonder Woman, I would have removed her from the Doomsday fight as well. Gal Gadot's casting could have been the biggest secret of the film. The reveal of WW from the photograph could have been used an end credit scene.
This was the year that Disney and Warner Bros. studio spies were in full effect - look at Marvel and DC’s big movies that year - Batman v Superman and Captain America Civil War. In many ways they are almost the same story - both feature iconic heroes pitted against each other because of both personal beliefs and being held accountable for collateral damage - look at the films promotional posters too - they are practically identical. Marvel did it better though - the writing in Civil War was a lot more logical and the reasons Tony wanting to fight Cap were brilliantly realised.
Cool. Definitely better than what we saw. Share it with Warner Brother’s studios and Zach Snider, as well as with Sony's live superhero movie line up.
This was great. Everything the original attempted to say, your rewrite actually communicates in an impactful way. Fantastic job.
Not really
I have to crack up these “I fix…” screenwriting videos. Checked this dude’s filmography and it’s a grand total of 1 credit for writing a short 5 years ago. Can’t imagine why WB isn’t knocking your down throwing moneybags at you to get you to fix their superhero franchise 🙄 .
Dickeating is crazy
You sure you've seen the ultimate cut of this movie. I don't think you have. Bcz if you had you'd know that the chair had lead in it which is why he couldn't see the bomb. The entire controversy was why didn't Superman save the people by identifying the bomb.
"The spear is mine" = "the ring is mine" (but sometimes you really do have two protagonists!)
This isn't bad actually. Only issue is that you perfectly set up the reason why batman is after superman, but not a reason why superman would fight batman outside of self defense.
Up until the fight, we don't even know if superman is aware of batman
Batman VS Superman is 3 films SMASHED into one. This could have been a great journey to the Death of Superman!! Then start Hall of Justice!
Oh wow, i actually have a dual protagonist story idea but i havnt worked on anything else yet. Thx for the advice!
I like these ''Fixing''
Being a person that still enjoys this movie till this day, I've got to say that I love your take and that most of your points make sense. I still enjoy the movie the way it is but your restructuring of this movie is very insightful. I'm glad I've found your video. I'm currently working on a screenplay that would jumpstart my superhero cinematic universe. Hopefully when I am finished with the script, you could take a look and give me insightful feedback and help! Thanks!
Your version is 100X better.
The things you pointed out as problems aren't.
-The Knighmare sequence is the reason why Batman decides to kill Superman. Before that moment, he wasn't really sure about killing him. Of course is to set up the sequels, but it has a purpose in the story.
-Clark wasn't blamed for the Capitol bombing. It's stated that the suspect of the bombing was Keith, the one in the wheelchair. Clark was blamed for NOT stopping the bombing for the same philosophical question you stated was the core of the film (even though it's more complex than that) and because of that, people suspected of him being complicit of the bombing.
-I'm not sure if you're criticizing the story of the theatrical release or the Ultimate Edition (because in one moment you talk about your experience on the cinema but then you use footage of the Ultimate, AKA The Director's Cut). I say this because you say that Superman didn't show when and why he leaves the Capitol in the theatrical release, but in the Ultimate Edtion is shown how guilty he fells about the explosion and that the people around him doesn't want him anymore. Remember the clip were Clark is told by a paramedic to give him room to work? For a guy that is supposed to know about story, didn't you get the meaning of that line and Clark's reaction to the tragedy around him? But even without that part, in the theatrical release in the scene in Lois's apartment they both talked about the incident he saying "I didn't see it, Lo. Standing right there and I didn't see it." and she saying "Clark, there are people behind this." to which he responds "I'm afraid I didn't see it because I wasn't looking." You also used that part of the movie in the video...
-Clark goes to the final fight enraged for his mother's kidnaping (that's important) and tells Bruce "Bruce, please. I was wrong. You have to listen to me. Lex wants us-" and Bruce doesn't give a crap. Clark tells him "You don't undestand. There's no time." and Bruce answers "I understand". Clark was two times attacked by Bruce and that enraged him but even in that, he still was trying to reason with him. "Stay down, if I wanted it, you'll be dead already." This Superman is shown to be more unstable that other iterations and the scene is appropiate for the character he is.
-And lastly, the Martha scene was actually ridiculed because "Clark should've said to Batman to save his mother instead of calling her for her first name" but before that moment Bruce says "I bet your parents taught you you mean something. That you're here for a reason. My parents taught a different lesson. Dying in the gutter for no reason at all.". In that line he practically says to Clark "I don't care about your parents".
He didn't watch the movie.
Exactly. At that moment there was nothing Clark could have said to Bruce to change his mind. It was important for Bruce as a character to only step out of this mindset once he has the opportunity to stab Superman.
Having Superman being really into the fight would have cause some plotholes too, because he actually would have killed him if he wanted to. The fight works in the movie because Superman was in defense mode and after he got exposed to the kryptonite it was a matter of survival. He never uses his laser beams for a reason.
@@AlvinFlang69420 I believe he didn't pay enough attention...
No matter how much you try to put logic into the fight scene and the Martha name call, it still makes no sense. Let's be honest here, the reason it played out the way it did was for the sake of having a long fight scene. Superman had plenty of opportunities to simply tell Batman to "wait" or "stop", "I'm not here to fight you". After Superman tossed Batman to the ground, he could have told Batman about Lex. But what's funny about that is Batman should have already known that Superman wasn't a threat. He's had 18 months to study Superman.
@@theloniouskey the movie makes it clear that Batman is not willing to listen, no matter how many opportunities Superman had to explain to him. Even when he says "Save Martha" Batman thinks he's playing mind games with him. It takes Lois to step in and explain to him what he's trying to say.
And Batman knows Superman is not necessarily a threat right now, he's trying to take him down on the possibility that one day he might turn around on his principals and destroy the world. That's the reason they had him having that knightmare premonition where he sees Superman turned into an evil tyrant. You could have Batman studying Superman for 18 months saving cats from the trees and still he would fight him, because he's considering that 1% chance that he might become evil one day.
I like your version but I will say this. I would’ve kept the bvs fight the same and warehouse fight maybe switch out the people he took Superman in custody to with lex’s guys so Batman can be just as brutal without worry about being an enemy of the government. Movies are still a visual medium and action when it works narratively within a story can make it even more engaging and thrilling.
Also just curious, what are some of you’re favorite superhero movies based on how well written they are?
Good take on the BvS nonesense, you should watch filmento’s “BvS should have been about the dead of Robin” video, it’s also a much better tale over the final movie.
Instead of creating doomsday, I prefer luthor to create kryptonite suit to kill superman, he beat Superman badly, but batman saves superman in the end, cause killing off superman in his second appearance is still too rush.
I gotta say, Batman v Superman is definitely my top fav CBM despite some flaws. I love the tone, acting, action, music and cinematography.
However, my biggest gripe with the movie has always been the fight between Batman and Superman as it felt unreasonable. I gotta say, your idea of making Superman a vigilante definitely makes it 100x better.
The only thing I gotta say is, in my opinion the Martha scene works for me. It shown to Batman how he is now in the position of Joe Chill, a murderer. The name Martha was just the anchor that reminded him of his trauma. The whole point was that it shown him how human Superman is. He has a mother, making him a person now, not just an alien with the power to destroy the world.
Your last point is solid
what I don't understand is why there no Courageous Cat vs Mighty Mouse cartoon.
Since Courageous Cat is based on Batman and Mighty Mouse is based on Superman it seems this crossover would be obvious..
Even though i loved this movie even with obvious flaws, i still loved the way you fixed it. Way to go sir
An important part of Batman and Superman's characters in the comics is that they refuse to kill, which this film flat out ignored. I think HiTop Films did a great job explaining that with the video, "Batman Does NOT Kill", which also rewrites the Martha scene from this movie to work much better.
HiTop films, really? That guy cannot write to save his life, and this Batman does not behave in any way Batman hasn't behave in comics, movies or videogames.
Do I need to remind you about the temple full of Ninjas Bruce killed in Batman Begins?
The factory Batman blew up in Batman?
How about the times he left KGBeast to die in either a basement or in the middle of the forest in the comics?
@@AlvinFlang69420 bale didn't murder them. it was man slaughter and the deaths weren't even confirmed if i remember.. meanwhile batfleck is a ruthless psychopath
@@AyushBhadouria So according to you, you can get literally blown up, but somehow survive?
I think Pheonix Studios rewrite was the best. I wish it was the real one we get. Altough NandovMovies didn't fully rewrite the movie, his video about one small change in the movie was really great too
@@thedeathwatcher6571 NandovMovies that guy is a loser lmao.
Dude, please fix that movie called Passangers with Jennifer Lawrence and Chris Pratt. I like that movie but couldve been such a great thriller if they hid one of the secrets of the movie to the third act.
That’s how it was in the original script. Also, Nerdwriter1 did a video about it. I’d recommend that.
@@UltimateKyuubiFox I've just watched. His idea would've been great too. Me, personally, would prefer more of a true horror 3rd act with pratt coming to kill jennifer and to then waking up someone else or his ending but with her killing him but then ending up lonely just like him. Either way, seeing Pratt playing a psycho would be a hell of a twist.
Dude... You just didn't get it. Superman says "Save Martha" (his mother), Batman gets thrown off because he thinks it's his mother. Lois Lane explains it's Superman's mother, which, all of sudden, makes Superman, an alien, humanized in Batman's eyes. That's what defuses the whole thing and gets Batman to relate to Superman.
Ther plan was not to make people into believing superman trigger the bomb, but that he do nothing to prevent the explosion of the bomb. Superman is allmighty in the eye of the public. he's strong, he's fast and see everything. The plan was to make people into believing Superman can choose his battle and do nothing for you if he wants to. And this was just a little part of the plan. The Real plan was to trigger Batman by reinforcing the fears he can have with superman. Lex Set up the conflict between Batman and Superman. This is all he want from the start. Well not exactly all he want... because this is a multi layer plan. A plan where he wins whatever happens. Batman loose? This is a proof for the public that superman is dangerous. Superman is killed, all gods can be killed. The two of them die? It's even better... one stone two bird. Batman and Superman Teams-up? well Doomsday is here. Talking about him... Well, if they both die, he gain more control about what he can do, more weapon, gain the public opinion by prooving that "Gods" can be dangerous and imperfect. The only things luthor didn't plan was Wonder Woman.
You explained it better than the movie
@@connorhighland6783 All the evidence were in the movie... Luthor explaining his motivation multiple time and mostly in front of superman. Batman being tricked by the false letters from the disabled graffiti artist, even this is explained by luthor in front of superman. The kryptonite delibaratly giving to batman, giving him the possibility to kill superman. The encounter between Clark Kent and Bruce Wayne is set up by Luthor. Everything is explained in the movie, and most of it can be understand by what luthor says to superman... we just have to link all the evidence.
@@mypimpkinsoul I think the problem is that people like him want the movies spoonfed to them rather than them connecting the dots.
@@AlvinFlang69420 not true, when the court blew up superman didn't do anything except sigh and fly away.
@@mypimpkinsoul none of what u said explains why superman flew away when the court blew up
I’m trying to think what else you could’ve done instead of using doomsday still I know people were pretty upset they used him in the movie felt it was too soon
I like this version. Good work. 👍
here before Snyderbros get this video blocked
5:29 Okey I'll stop you there...
No it doesn't work as you describe tho.
Bc Superman already came before even Lex pushed Lois. Lex expected her to die. So Clark would now have only one woman Left. (His adoptive human mother, which He considers the "special lady".)
And about the Bomb and Sups scaping, Superman thinks he provoqued such attack.
And he thinks he IS guilty for not tracking thea Bomb in time.
He is Superman and still wasn't able to save all of those people. That's the EXTREMELY Clear point mate. I'm more surprised how you missed that.
At least for Clark & even Lois Till that point. (Also they didn't knew who give Wally the wheelchair) (that's found a day later) this wasn't against anyone else but to f*** Superman's only chance to talk.
And the results that Lex was looking for were clear: more Division. More Chaos and confusion.
The movie actually shows many perspectives, Now people think Sups is attracting terrorists. Other citizens sure think is all BS bc they trust Superman. And we even get the reporters pov with some throwing clickbait titles like Sups being a co-conspirator.
I need to make a fixing video on this fixing video.
"Batman has a chip on his shoulder." Dude, no! 😂 You played the clip, I don't understand why you're confused. Batman is afraid of Superman because he could destroy humankind in a blink of a second. Okay, maybe it would take a few minutes... But that's it. He saw what Superman was able to do to Metropolis unintentionally, imagined what he could have done intentionally? There is no chip in no one's shoulder, you're overreaching.
You make some very interesting points but your rewrite doesn't really convince me. There's one thing I'd like to react on in particular, which is your choice to cut Wonder Woman, the knightmare sequence and the Justice League teaser. These movies have to be looked at like a TV show. Each episode is part of a bigger, overarching story and it's only when you take all the episodes together that you get the whole picture. In a good TV show, not every storyline is resolved by the end of an episode, not every character's identity is revealed, or their motivations explained, etc. This happens when you get to the end of the season, or multiple seasons in most cases.
By cutting everything out, you're basically making this movie a one-off. Nothing wrong with that but it's a completely different approach to storytelling. The challenge for Snyder was to set up a whole universe while delivering on people's expectation and offering them a satisfying movie experience. If your ambition is to offer a rewrite, you have to try and do the same IMO.
Tyler. I really enjoy watching your videos. I have given a lot of thought to contacting you to work with me on my film ideas. As a long-time DC Comic fans still find several issues with this story in general. I do think your version plays out better than Snyder's. I do think you have brought Diana in this fairly easily. I also think you could have introduced the Martian Manhunter as well. He would be the link that mediates a sense of peace between the two heroes. The problems that still exist are simple. First, Snyder never explains how Luthor knows both men's true identities. Second, how do Wayne and Luthor figure out Clark's weakness to kryptonite? The two biggest issues I still have with the film are twofold; Doomsday was not created in a lab. The battle between the two DC giants was from a Frank Miller novel that saw Superman as a pawn in the Reagan-era United States. He was responsible for the dismantling of the Justice League. Another issue that is close to my heart is the use of a non-disabled actor being put in the role of a double leg amputee and then used as the device which Luthor uses to blow up the proceedings. It simply never needed to occur and Scooty McKnuclehead is not a big enough name to justify his green screen amputation. It just serves as yet another bastardization of a disabled person through the lens of Hollywood. Thanks for letting me voice this.
Love the rewrite, but how would Bruce know Superman is vulnerable to cryptonite
I think you missed some plot points in the movie that explained some of your issues but i enjoyed the video nonetheless
I clicked faster then the speed of light!
fr lmao
This movie is a mess. It had everything to be a great DCU entry, but Warners decided not to
Who asked
@@_wade_morgan who what?
@@_wade_morgan Me. I asked.
Want a reason for Batman to want to fight Superman? Make it so Superman inadvertantly caused the death of Robin ..or Alfred...it makes it personal. Dont be afraid to go there....Want a reason for Batman to realize the error of his ways? Have the fight with Superman spill out in front of some kids who conicidentally worship the man of steel ...the child is weeping crying over his fallen hero . Maybe he's looking for his lost parents who are buried somewhere under the rubble of their fight ...Want a common enemy for Batman and Superman to unite against? METALLO...a great payoff for all of those Kryptonite easter eggs the movie dropped
Well I would kick Wonder Woman out because she doesn’t serve anything, second I would recast Lex because this version doesn’t really fit in because he’s very cartoonish and from Phoenix Studios says that if his reason to hate was all about his dad and that we think Lex’s is crazy makes his motivations completely invalid and thirdly I would have brought in Metallo as that no-legged man which was a missed opportunity.
What do you think about fixing both Wonder Woman movies?
If Doomsday is created from Krypton tech, and is basically an "evil" Spuerman, why is Superman hurt by the nuke, and Doomsday is strengthened?
It's not an evil Superman. It's a corruption and a monster created from Kryptonian technology.
But... the "source material" that was used to make Doomsday WAS a Kryptonian, General Zod, and he is exactly like Superman. And as such, should be similarly effected by the same things as Superman, and vice versa.
@@Rejoice1631 But Zod's body was genetically altered. It's not a normal Kryptonian. Think of it as a mutant. If you shoot Wolverine and a normal person. Wolverine heals but the normal person is terribly wounded, even though they are both human. Doomsday is a Kryptonian mutation.
The point of the trial is not to frame Superman for murder. The point of let's blowing up the capital is to show that Superman is not All-powerful. If you can prove that Superman is not All-powerful then you're proving that hes not all good. Let's Luther explains his motivations by the end of the movie. And even without it look at the meta reaction of audience members and how they feel about Superman I think lex did his job properly. Well Lexus B have if you can prove Superman's inefficiency as a Superman's Superman's inefficiency as a superhero or point to him not being good, then you can justify Creating deterrents to Stop and eventually kill him.
Proving he's not all powerful has absolutely nothing to do with if he's all good? So since a baby isn't strong its evil? If anything that would make Superman sympathetic or at worst incompetent.
lemme grab my popcorn
It weakens Superman because it discounts his speed. He could have traversed the world and found his mom in minutes.
Superman doesn't have speedster level superspeed in this movie, that's the reason.
Movie doesn’t have to be fixed. It wasn’t made in relation to any other superhero movie. It was made by a director who’s favorite movie of all time is John boorman’s Excalibur, which elevates a mythological story to stagecraft instead of watering it down to a relatable reality. Nothing about BvS is intended to be realistic. It’s instead designed to set a general tone about its heroes and icons. If you come away thinking, “neither Superman nor Batman was the guy to root for,” you are supposed to feel that way. Our icons are broken and we made them that way. We’ve lost our way with what Superman actually means because we hang onto a certain image of him. This is what the movie is about most centrally. You’re trying to turn the movie into something it’s absolutely not in spirit
Except for a deconstruction the Heroes have heroic traits like a moral code or desire to do good like in Watchmen and The Dark Knight Returns, which convey the consequences and morally grey actions of heroism, the BvS ones don't have any heroic traits
I'm sorry Tyler. Even your version of it still seems messed up.
Batman's deeper motivation to fight Superman "he wants to win" is a flawed motivation. Because the idea of Batman being jealous of Superman is ridiculous. He's just paranoid about a being like Superman. It's Luthor who jealous that Superman has replaced humanity in the hierarchy.
Also Batman didn't do much in Act.2 Part.1, which doesn't complete his story circle. I'd like to understand why that's the case.
Also it's not like the characters are going through more than the external change at the end of each act. So it's really not so interesting.
Also the TITLE of the movie yet to be changed, because we still have to wait for almost 3 acts to complete to witness their fight.
If I'm wrong about anything, please let me know.
This was my initial reaction too. It doesn't seem like Batman to be so petty as to be jealous, but now I actually do think it can be a believable flaw. Even in the original, Alfred challenges Bruce about his motivation, so it's there. But let's assume that too is a problem in the original. Even in the comics iteration, there is a level of conflict between Batman and Superman. It's similar to Cp American and Iron Man. I wouldn't say jealousy is the main element of those issues, but if you think about it, there is an awful lot of ego involved in them. Ultimately, they're all still human beings (Clark raised by human beings) struggling with relatable flaws. Jealousy, if shown to be deep and not superficial, is a powerful one that even the good guys have been depicted as struggling with. I'm not sure if this would make me like the movie though, but maybe!
You do know, that Batman is also motivated by the dangers of Superman too right? It was stated right at the beginning when Batman witnesses the death of his friend as well Tyler's want for Batman being to keep Superman in check.
@@chavinchacon5517 I do know that and I've stated that clearly in my comment. I've stated that Batman is paranoid regarding Superman because of the trajedies he witnessed in the beginning of the movie.
@@slappyfun A person like Batman cannot be related to normal people. Because he's extremely disciplined and flawless, more than an average person can be. Which makes him one of the most competent superheroes, inspite of having no powers. Hence Batman having a flaw (ego or jealousy) like any other person, conveniently making him more human is, in my opinion, rubbish.
@@shanmukh747 No you didn't. You said he was jealous.
For me, I think the biggest issue of the movie is it's tone. They took the idea of a goofy concept of "Batman vs. Superman" WAY too seriously. It just doesn't work as a gritty-violent, political movie grounded in reality. You have no memorable dialogues that isn't dark and sad. You have no uplifting characters and make Batman and Superman cold blooded killers or seeing Jimmy Olsen get shot on screen. It should be more like the World's Finest crossover where it's a consistently mature story but is still fun and embraces the comic elements and doesn't try to overthink itself like a deep arthouse movie. Even the title is too embarrassed to have the "s" in "vs." like they're trying to make it sound like a court room drama. Who tf would wanna watch that!?!
Also, it's too focused on trying to make a dozen sequels like setting up a Wonder Woman movie, a Flash movie, a Justice League movie while also adapting stories that don't connect like The Death of Superman and Dark Knight Returns. All in a Superman sequel nonetheless!!! Those are stories made based on years of stories we've grown to see and those two were made for those who's grown with the characters but this is the second DCEU movie and they're too occupied focusing on every movie in their series at once. Imagine The Incredible Hulk had Tony in the middle of the movie, have Thor appear, and a side plot with Black Widow's story in Iron Man 2. It's missing it's core element and that's THE HULK himself. That's this movie. It should just be a simple story of two heroes leaning to accept each other and agree on the same plan and the two trying to stop Lex and even Joker. (But not a punk version. More of a Ledger/Nicholson hybrid)
You say it almost perfectly.
Iron Man 2 pretty much does that: it introduces Black Widow as a side story, expands on the plans regarding The Avengers, it involves not one but two villains directly connected to Stark and sets up The Incredible Hulk.
This isn't a story about just Batman or Superman. It's a story about both and the conflict they have.
I know you want all superhero movies to be cookie cutter, but grow up.
@@AlvinFlang69420 no. Nobody wants superhero movies to be cookiecutter.
@@TomEyeTheSFMguy He does.
@@AlvinFlang69420 okay, how?
Even this new version is still wrong because both superman and Batman are acting out of character. Batman wouldn't want to attack Batman sure he will have a contagency but only if superman starts killing people and not because of his ego. Batman doesn't kill superman hates fights, he's a symbol of hope and peace
Batman isn't acting out of character. There is a literal GOD in the world. And batman doesn't want him to live without the consequenses. And this movie is about challenging batman and his no kill rule. When doomsday introduced he decides to let superman go to prove superman is here for humanity and Superman defeats Doomsday and proves batman wrong.
Overall it could have worked better.
@@Exodius101he literally kills a bunch of Mercenaries and nearly kills superman out of ego and no real smart reason (that's something a Frank Castle aka Punisher would do not a batman character) so wtf are you taking about,🤦. He decides to let superman go because of "Martha" yeah that's a very high level of competency for a Batman character, wtf happened to detective interrogative batman because this "batman" tries to kill superman without even hearing his POV, this is not batman its Punisher
It couod be such a beautiful story. Yet it is such crap.
What's "couod"?
*could
If only if Zack Snyder would have contacted you Tyler for this rewite all of this disgust at this film could have been avoided.
Fix Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness
I like the rewrites a lot! But still feel unconvincing why Batman stops fighting. Remembering Alfred words and choosing to hand Superman over to the government doesn't seem in line with the movie's ruthless Batfleck
It isn’t the movie’s Batfleck, that’s the point of the rewrite. It’s a different characterization.
@@UltimateKyuubiFox A characterization that fails to understand the character, the symbolism, and the story it's written.
@@UltimateKyuubiFox I'm not sure the rewrite shows a more compassive, feet to the ground Batfleck. None of his backstory or motivations were changed, nor his intense want
18:38 "Ready to give the killing blow." Not just no, but fuck no.
Snyder had this *eagerness* for making the heroes kill throughout the Snyderverse, personally I hated it. But one of the things that made this fight interesting, and one of things I think he did right in his fight, was that Superman and Batman had different objectives in the fight. Batman wanted to kill what he saw was an existential threat to humanity. Superman wanted to subdue Batman.
Maybe not kill off Superman in BVS instead let him grow and expand than wait for the doomsday fight.
-Batman’s dream sequence is part of a larger act. Not unlike how a scene of an episode of a series sets up a latter episode.
-Batman was already preparing to fight Superman
-Luthor’s point with the Bomb was to make everyone see that not only Superman is fallible, but also that chaos follows him around.
-Superman DID stay and help others, it wasn’t until he was told to go away that he left
-He doesn’t know that the guy in the chair works for Lex Luthor
-He didn’t see the bomb, that’s what has him upset. That’s what he talked to Lois about. He blames himself because the guy in the chair is the same guy that on TV said that Superman was responsible for everything.
-Superman tries to explain what happened, and Bruce refused to listen.
-Superman did fight, warning him three times to stay down
-The Martha scene puts him into a PTSD, and makes him realize that Superman is still human at heart.
With all the respect you deserve, you clearly didn’t watch the movie. And your “fix” makes a movie that is a cult film that we keep talking almost a decade after its release, into a generic superhero movie.
We only keep talking about it because of how poorly done it is. And explain how this is generic.
@@TomEyeTheSFMguy Stalking and looking for my comments now? Great!
For the record, people aren't talking about the film being poor. People talk about how it was misunderstood on its time. That's what "cult classic" means. Do you even know what you're talking about? Oh wait, you unironically have a pepe profile pic. It's like talking to an angry, racist kid on xbox live.
It removes all the nuances from the characters, making it all focus on "OMG THEY'RE FIGHTING!!"
@@AlvinFlang69420 Imagine genuinely thinking profile pics have anything to do with how a person will interact. It truly doesn't. You just use it as an excuse to put a person in a specific group without anything real to go by. Also, I only found your comment cause I was scrolling through the comment section. Cuz, y'know, people fucking do that.
@@AlvinFlang69420 Also, imagine missing the point the fixed version is making that hard. You seem to have this version and the original mixed, buddy. The original makes it more about the fact that they're fighting, while the fixed version adds nuance to the story. And honestly, imma need to see a genuine, credible argument with credible evidence as to how BVS is "misunderstood."
@@TomEyeTheSFMguy Nice way to try and spin and defend the fact that not only you don't know what a cult film is, but also that it was just part of my entire argument. The "fixed" version has no nuance.
As far as the movie being misunderstood, the proof is on this video. Every complaint he had on the movie is directly addressed and taken care of in the movie, as I pointed out in my comment which you didn't read and just responded to bitch about.
I still think it should have been Bizarro and not Doomsday.
Super awesome
Roger Ebert use to call it "the idiot plot syndrome". It's where conflict could be settled with one sentence, but in order to keep things going, people act like idiots and don't say it.
Your video was mostly good. The only thing that could improve it would be not to ally Lex and Bruce at any time.
I clicked so fast cos this film has a shit tonne of problems. Intrigued how you'd fix it. Let me get my snacks lol.
What about Luke did he die ?
I’m sorry but I hate it when people do this. This is someone else’s art. We agree it sucked, but from a subjective view you did not fix shit. It’s super arrogant.
Not a bad version. But still a stupid movie to do this early for a Justice League set up. Let’s just not do BVS until like 6 movies in.