I learned something from this study: the significance of the sin involving the census and God’s patience and historical purpose of plagues. This was insightful and timely for all of us to consider the way we are living and what the consequences might be if we don’t remain “in Christ” -Amen! 🙏🏼
AMEN! Thank you for sharing. John 15:5 NKJV - “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing."
“Because the Silver has been set, our sure foundation, Jesus, just like the foundation of the tabernacle, we can meet our Jesus. What a beautiful picture! Thank You God for this study of the life of David and all of the ways we can apply these teachings to our lives!
Thank you Pastor Daniel and the church family. As you/we are coming to the end of the books of Samuel. I know that it will be through prayers your next Bible study. I would like to add😊. As one comment mentioned I agree to continue with the books of Kings. We have not finish with Joab and not forgetting Shimei. Also King Solomon who God loved. Solomon building works, his epic prayer. Not forgetting the many wives. My second choice The book of Job. Towards the end of the book. God Almighty speaks and we are given an insight into parts of Creation. It is an amazing read. 'Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth?' 'Who determined it's measurement?' Third choice the book of Revelation 2023. Which ever book you decide for the Friday study. I will be there to listen and learn. God bless you all. Sandie, London UK. Ref. Job 38:4,5 ESV.
It's not a sin to COUNT the people. The sin is...NOT COLLECTING MONEY for those counted. See Exodus 30:11-16. God does NOT have to COMMAND David to take a census. Exodus 30 does not COMMAND Moses to take a count, either. IT states WHEN you take a census, not a command to TAKE A CENSUS. And 2 Samuel 24, God "moved" David to take a count, not God commanded David to take a count. God's anger was with Israel, not David. Satan, on the other hand, just wanted to get David into trouble SO THAT Israel would be killed! But there are DIFFERENCES between the 2 accounts. They are not the same account. For my comment here, I don't care about the count number in either case. But, below are the OTHER differences: For example: In 2 Samuel 24:13, God gave David 3 choices of punishment: *1. 7 *(SEVEN) years famine, or **2. 3 years *(YEARS) fleeing from enemies, or 3. 3 days pestilence But in 1 Chronicles 21:12 God also gave David 3 choices of punishment: *1. 3*(THREE) years famine, or **2. 3 months *(MONTHS) overtaken by enemies 3. 3 days pestilence That's a major difference, not to mention the other differences in the census, as well as the CURRENCY and amount needed for the THRESHING FLOOR in order to STOP the pestilence. Threshing Floor (Belonging to Ornan) 1 Chronicles 21:25: *600 Shekels of Gold. Threshing Floor (Belonging to Araunah) 2 Samuel 22:24: **50 shekels of Silver. My reference is the KJV, but I do know, and am aware of other versions of the Bible, such as the NIV, which makes everything the SAME account. For example...2 Samuel 24:13 shows THREE YEARS FAMINE instead of SEVEN, which would make both accounts the same...except for the currency and amount, and who the threshing floor belonged to. Those are still different, reflecting the same as the KJV. Having said all that...Numbering the people is NOT the sin. 1 John 3:4 states that sin is the transgression of the law [of Moses]. Romans 3:20 states that the law [of Moses] is the knowledge of sin. So, we have to take it back to the law of Moses in order to determine WHAT the sin actually is. Exodus 30:11-16 11 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, 12 When thou takest the sum of the children of Israel after their number, then shall they give every man a ransom for his soul unto the Lord, when thou numberest them; that there be no plague among them, when thou numberest them. NOTE: DID YOU SEE THE WORD PLAGUE IN VERSE 12? 13 This they shall give, every one that passeth among them that are numbered, half a shekel after the shekel of the sanctuary: (a shekel is twenty gerahs:) an half shekel shall be the offering of the Lord. 14 Every one that passeth among them that are numbered, from twenty years old and above, shall give an offering unto the Lord. 15 The rich shall not give more, and the poor shall not give less than half a shekel, when they give an offering unto the Lord, to make an atonement for your souls. 16 And thou shalt take the atonement money of the children of Israel, and shalt appoint it for the service of the tabernacle of the congregation; that it may be a memorial unto the children of Israel before the Lord, to make an atonement for your souls. Numbering the people is not the sin. Neglecting to COLLECT MONEY FROM THE PEOPLE COUNTED is the sin.
Let's be honest, Satan in the OT works for the Lord God (Yahweh). Also see the story of Job, where Satan came to the divine council meeting as a son of God (Elohim). Given that, then we have 2 choices for preserving consistency between 1 Chron. 21 & 2 Sam. 24: 1. Yahweh caused Satan to incite David to number Israel. 2. Yahweh and Satan are the same entity (Yahweh = Satan, the adversary of humanity). There are no translational difficulties which would explain this paradox, check the Hebrew.
Job does not say that Satan is a son of God. Only the righteous are counted as a son of God, not the unrighteous. The sons of God came to present themselves...Satan is a SEPARATE subject matter, because it state, "and Satan came to present himself". It's not a sin to COUNT the people. The sin is...NOT COLLECTING MONEY for those counted. See Exodus 30:11-16. God does NOT have to COMMAND David to take a census. Exodus 30 does not COMMAND Moses to take a count, either. IT states WHEN you take a census, not a command to TAKE A CENSUS. And 2 Samuel 24, God "moved" David to take a count, not God commanded David to take a count. God's anger was with Israel, not David. Satan, on the other hand, just wanted to get David into trouble SO THAT Israel would be killed! But there are DIFFERENCES between the 2 accounts. They are not the same account. For my comment here, I don't care about the count number in either case. But, below are the OTHER differences: For example: In 2 Samuel 24:13, God gave David 3 choices of punishment: *1. 7 *(SEVEN) years famine, or **2. 3 years *(YEARS) fleeing from enemies, or 3. 3 days pestilence But in 1 Chronicles 21:12 God also gave David 3 choices of punishment: *1. 3*(THREE) years famine, or **2. 3 months *(MONTHS) overtaken by enemies 3. 3 days pestilence That's a major difference, not to mention the other differences in the census, as well as the CURRENCY and amount needed for the THRESHING FLOOR in order to STOP the pestilence. Threshing Floor (Belonging to Ornan) 1 Chronicles 21:25: *600 Shekels of Gold. Threshing Floor (Belonging to Araunah) 2 Samuel 22:24: **50 shekels of Silver. My reference is the KJV, but I do know, and am aware of other versions of the Bible, such as the NIV, which makes everything the SAME account. For example...2 Samuel 24:13 shows THREE YEARS FAMINE instead of SEVEN, which would make both accounts the same...except for the currency and amount, and who the threshing floor belonged to. Those are still different, reflecting the same as the KJV. Having said all that...Numbering the people is NOT the sin. 1 John 3:4 states that sin is the transgression of the law [of Moses]. Romans 3:20 states that the law [of Moses] is the knowledge of sin. So, we have to take it back to the law of Moses in order to determine WHAT the sin actually is. Exodus 30:11-16 11 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, 12 When thou takest the sum of the children of Israel after their number, then shall they give every man a ransom for his soul unto the Lord, when thou numberest them; that there be no plague among them, when thou numberest them. NOTE: DID YOU SEE THE WORD PLAGUE IN VERSE 12? 13 This they shall give, every one that passeth among them that are numbered, half a shekel after the shekel of the sanctuary: (a shekel is twenty gerahs:) an half shekel shall be the offering of the Lord. 14 Every one that passeth among them that are numbered, from twenty years old and above, shall give an offering unto the Lord. 15 The rich shall not give more, and the poor shall not give less than half a shekel, when they give an offering unto the Lord, to make an atonement for your souls. 16 And thou shalt take the atonement money of the children of Israel, and shalt appoint it for the service of the tabernacle of the congregation; that it may be a memorial unto the children of Israel before the Lord, to make an atonement for your souls. Numbering the people is not the sin. Neglecting to COLLECT MONEY FROM THE PEOPLE COUNTED is the sin. God knew that David would FORGET. In a SEPARATE INCIDENT, Satan was HOPING that David would forget. Both are separate incidents.
@@chapmaned24 I'm sorry you seem to be where I was 20 years ago. "Yahweh called a meeting among the Sons of God, and an opposer also came amongst them." My point is, Satan is not a proper name, no capitalization required. "How have you been Satan?" "Oh I'm alright, kind of bored, I'm roving the earth and not seeing anything interesting." "Have you noticed my servant Job?" David's improper census resulted in 70,000 people being killed at the hand of Yahweh, and not a single mention of any sin they had done. That's messed up.
@@danlds17 And my point is...Satan was NOT INVITED. He just happened to SHOW UP, and he is NOT identified as a "son of God". Next, the census is NEVER considered to be IMPROPER. The sin was as Exodus 30 DEMANDS of a census, in that you MUST COLLECT MONEY when one is done. You can hold a census every day, but unless you collect money...THEN the punishment of PESTILENCE HAPPENS.
@@chapmaned24 No scholar would agree with that. The 2 tellings (of the same story) are word-for-word the same, except the 1st verse (i.e. 1 Chron. 21:1 vs. 2 Sam. 24:1) Thus we have Satan = Yahweh. I heard somewhere that one version is from the 10 northern tribes of Israel (after they separated), but I'm not sure about that. You're jumping through A LOT of hoops to maintain your theory. Yes, there is some redundancy in the OT.
Am a pastor. I recently discovered this great Bible analysis. AMEN for being a blessing to me.
I learned something from this study: the significance of the sin involving the census and God’s patience and historical purpose of plagues. This was insightful and timely for all of us to consider the way we are living and what the consequences might be if we don’t remain “in Christ” -Amen! 🙏🏼
AMEN! Thank you for sharing.
John 15:5 NKJV - “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing."
Thank you for this
Another great bible study! ❤ You make it easy to understand. Now... onto start 1 Kings :) Thank you & God bless you Pastor Daniel! 🙏🏼
but why does it say god was angry against israel?
“Because the Silver has been set, our sure foundation, Jesus, just like the foundation of the tabernacle, we can meet our Jesus. What a beautiful picture! Thank You God for this study of the life of David and all of the ways we can apply these teachings to our lives!
Thank you Pastor Daniel and the church family.
As you/we are coming to the end of the books of Samuel. I know that it will be through prayers your next Bible study.
I would like to add😊. As one comment mentioned I agree to continue with the books of Kings.
We have not finish with Joab and not forgetting Shimei. Also King Solomon who God loved. Solomon building works, his epic prayer. Not forgetting the many wives.
My second choice The book of Job. Towards the end of the book. God Almighty speaks and we are given an insight into parts of Creation. It is an amazing read.
'Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth?'
'Who determined it's measurement?'
Third choice the book of Revelation 2023.
Which ever book you decide for the Friday study. I will be there to listen and learn.
God bless you all.
Sandie, London UK.
Ref. Job 38:4,5 ESV.
Thank you so much for the suggestions. We will relay your message to Pastor Daniel
I appreciated the commentary pastor Batarseh did on Romans 13:1. Made a reference to this in my latest post if anyones interested.
6.5.24.
It's not a sin to COUNT the people. The sin is...NOT COLLECTING MONEY for those counted. See Exodus 30:11-16.
God does NOT have to COMMAND David to take a census. Exodus 30 does not COMMAND Moses to take a count, either. IT states WHEN you take a census, not a command to TAKE A CENSUS. And 2 Samuel 24, God "moved" David to take a count, not God commanded David to take a count.
God's anger was with Israel, not David. Satan, on the other hand, just wanted to get David into trouble SO THAT Israel would be killed!
But there are DIFFERENCES between the 2 accounts. They are not the same account.
For my comment here, I don't care about the count number in either case. But, below are the OTHER differences:
For example:
In 2 Samuel 24:13, God gave David 3 choices of punishment:
*1. 7 *(SEVEN) years famine, or
**2. 3 years *(YEARS) fleeing from enemies, or
3. 3 days pestilence
But in 1 Chronicles 21:12 God also gave David 3 choices of punishment:
*1. 3*(THREE) years famine, or
**2. 3 months *(MONTHS) overtaken by enemies
3. 3 days pestilence
That's a major difference, not to mention the other differences in the census, as well as the CURRENCY and amount needed for the THRESHING FLOOR in order to STOP the pestilence.
Threshing Floor (Belonging to Ornan) 1 Chronicles 21:25: *600 Shekels of Gold.
Threshing Floor (Belonging to Araunah) 2 Samuel 22:24: **50 shekels of Silver.
My reference is the KJV, but I do know, and am aware of other versions of the Bible, such as the NIV, which makes everything the SAME account. For example...2 Samuel 24:13 shows THREE YEARS FAMINE instead of SEVEN, which would make both accounts the same...except for the currency and amount, and who the threshing floor belonged to. Those are still different, reflecting the same as the KJV.
Having said all that...Numbering the people is NOT the sin.
1 John 3:4 states that sin is the transgression of the law [of Moses].
Romans 3:20 states that the law [of Moses] is the knowledge of sin.
So, we have to take it back to the law of Moses in order to determine WHAT the sin actually is.
Exodus 30:11-16
11 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
12 When thou takest the sum of the children of Israel after their number, then shall they give every man a ransom for his soul unto the Lord, when thou numberest them; that there be no plague among them, when thou numberest them.
NOTE: DID YOU SEE THE WORD PLAGUE IN VERSE 12?
13 This they shall give, every one that passeth among them that are numbered, half a shekel after the shekel of the sanctuary: (a shekel is twenty gerahs:) an half shekel shall be the offering of the Lord.
14 Every one that passeth among them that are numbered, from twenty years old and above, shall give an offering unto the Lord.
15 The rich shall not give more, and the poor shall not give less than half a shekel, when they give an offering unto the Lord, to make an atonement for your souls.
16 And thou shalt take the atonement money of the children of Israel, and shalt appoint it for the service of the tabernacle of the congregation; that it may be a memorial unto the children of Israel before the Lord, to make an atonement for your souls.
Numbering the people is not the sin. Neglecting to COLLECT MONEY FROM THE PEOPLE COUNTED is the sin.
Let's be honest, Satan in the OT works for the Lord God (Yahweh). Also see the story of Job, where Satan came to the divine council meeting as a son of God (Elohim). Given that, then we have 2 choices for preserving consistency between 1 Chron. 21 & 2 Sam. 24:
1. Yahweh caused Satan to incite David to number Israel.
2. Yahweh and Satan are the same entity (Yahweh = Satan, the adversary of humanity).
There are no translational difficulties which would explain this paradox, check the Hebrew.
Job does not say that Satan is a son of God. Only the righteous are counted as a son of God, not the unrighteous. The sons of God came to present themselves...Satan is a SEPARATE subject matter, because it state, "and Satan came to present himself".
It's not a sin to COUNT the people. The sin is...NOT COLLECTING MONEY for those counted. See Exodus 30:11-16.
God does NOT have to COMMAND David to take a census. Exodus 30 does not COMMAND Moses to take a count, either. IT states WHEN you take a census, not a command to TAKE A CENSUS. And 2 Samuel 24, God "moved" David to take a count, not God commanded David to take a count.
God's anger was with Israel, not David. Satan, on the other hand, just wanted to get David into trouble SO THAT Israel would be killed!
But there are DIFFERENCES between the 2 accounts. They are not the same account.
For my comment here, I don't care about the count number in either case. But, below are the OTHER differences:
For example:
In 2 Samuel 24:13, God gave David 3 choices of punishment:
*1. 7 *(SEVEN) years famine, or
**2. 3 years *(YEARS) fleeing from enemies, or
3. 3 days pestilence
But in 1 Chronicles 21:12 God also gave David 3 choices of punishment:
*1. 3*(THREE) years famine, or
**2. 3 months *(MONTHS) overtaken by enemies
3. 3 days pestilence
That's a major difference, not to mention the other differences in the census, as well as the CURRENCY and amount needed for the THRESHING FLOOR in order to STOP the pestilence.
Threshing Floor (Belonging to Ornan) 1 Chronicles 21:25: *600 Shekels of Gold.
Threshing Floor (Belonging to Araunah) 2 Samuel 22:24: **50 shekels of Silver.
My reference is the KJV, but I do know, and am aware of other versions of the Bible, such as the NIV, which makes everything the SAME account. For example...2 Samuel 24:13 shows THREE YEARS FAMINE instead of SEVEN, which would make both accounts the same...except for the currency and amount, and who the threshing floor belonged to. Those are still different, reflecting the same as the KJV.
Having said all that...Numbering the people is NOT the sin.
1 John 3:4 states that sin is the transgression of the law [of Moses].
Romans 3:20 states that the law [of Moses] is the knowledge of sin.
So, we have to take it back to the law of Moses in order to determine WHAT the sin actually is.
Exodus 30:11-16
11 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
12 When thou takest the sum of the children of Israel after their number, then shall they give every man a ransom for his soul unto the Lord, when thou numberest them; that there be no plague among them, when thou numberest them.
NOTE: DID YOU SEE THE WORD PLAGUE IN VERSE 12?
13 This they shall give, every one that passeth among them that are numbered, half a shekel after the shekel of the sanctuary: (a shekel is twenty gerahs:) an half shekel shall be the offering of the Lord.
14 Every one that passeth among them that are numbered, from twenty years old and above, shall give an offering unto the Lord.
15 The rich shall not give more, and the poor shall not give less than half a shekel, when they give an offering unto the Lord, to make an atonement for your souls.
16 And thou shalt take the atonement money of the children of Israel, and shalt appoint it for the service of the tabernacle of the congregation; that it may be a memorial unto the children of Israel before the Lord, to make an atonement for your souls.
Numbering the people is not the sin. Neglecting to COLLECT MONEY FROM THE PEOPLE COUNTED is the sin.
God knew that David would FORGET. In a SEPARATE INCIDENT, Satan was HOPING that David would forget.
Both are separate incidents.
@@chapmaned24 I'm sorry you seem to be where I was 20 years ago. "Yahweh called a meeting among the Sons of God, and an opposer also came amongst them." My point is, Satan is not a proper name, no capitalization required. "How have you been Satan?" "Oh I'm alright, kind of bored, I'm roving the earth and not seeing anything interesting." "Have you noticed my servant Job?"
David's improper census resulted in 70,000 people being killed at the hand of Yahweh, and not a single mention of any sin they had done. That's messed up.
@@danlds17 And my point is...Satan was NOT INVITED. He just happened to SHOW UP, and he is NOT identified as a "son of God".
Next, the census is NEVER considered to be IMPROPER. The sin was as Exodus 30 DEMANDS of a census, in that you MUST COLLECT MONEY when one is done.
You can hold a census every day, but unless you collect money...THEN the punishment of PESTILENCE HAPPENS.
@@danlds17 NEXT...both incidents are SEPARATE instances, NOT THE SAME. Two different census's. My comment should have made that perfectly clear.
@@chapmaned24 No scholar would agree with that. The 2 tellings (of the same story) are word-for-word the same, except the 1st verse (i.e. 1 Chron. 21:1 vs. 2 Sam. 24:1) Thus we have Satan = Yahweh. I heard somewhere that one version is from the 10 northern tribes of Israel (after they separated), but I'm not sure about that. You're jumping through A LOT of hoops to maintain your theory. Yes, there is some redundancy in the OT.