That day, 2 people actually died holding on to that capsized raft as it floated for miles. "Charlie" was part of the commercial group but the other victim 27yrs old was on a private raft who was traveling closely behind the commercial group for safety. A day I will never forget. I have the GoPro footage from our boat, but I appreciate being able to see from other angles. Thank you for your breakdown
This is correct. There were two people who died, the other being a private boater. Definitely, quite a tragedy. Regarding your second question, I don't have the video of the guides anymore. And yes, it is a day that you will remember. I hope that you will go rafting again. I know that dealing with these cases where there is a fatality sometimes taints my own boating experience.
Every time I go rafting I make sure and stress with my group the importance of any time someone is in the water to assume that they are not OK. The group must always be working on safety. Any time anyone is in the water it is everyone's responsibility to get them out as soon as possible. I will not raf with some oars men that do not understand this.
I kayak but same thing I might go ahead in easy water or level 3 stuff but never out of sight and always wait for the showers at mid or end of dangerous water just in case someone goes out gets tipped and can right themselves, I've had people say they were putting their life in my hands and I made sure to be on point with direction, got him through class 4 flooded lower yough his first time ever kayaking I found out later but he only tipped 3 5imes and listened great
I've had that same lesson imparted to me many times. I'm amazed at all the comments here re: bad guides. I've been doing adventure trips for 30 yrs. & have always had great, competent guides who stressed safety. I actually enjoy being part of the rescue squad & putting into action the steps my guides taught me. Just added more rescues several weeks ago on the Rogue River.
I worked at a rafting company on the Arkansas river a few years ago, during a summer where the water was higher than it had been in 15 or so years. I originally came to be a raft guide, but decided I didn’t want to be the only one in charge if it came down to rescuing someone/everyone if we flipped. So I opted to work in the front and just go on the trips when I could. There was a section of the river that was similar to that “room of doom” (not sure we had a name for it since it was record high water and a feature we don’t see often) and we flipped right before it. I planned to kick off the rock face so I didn’t get stuck in the eddy, but it sucked me down anyway. I’m certainly no pleb in the water and can usually take care of myself, and even after hearing the “safety talk” every damn day, I still ended up inhaling water from the shock of it. I managed to cannon-ball-starfish my way out of it after a minute getting chundered, but it honestly felt like sheer luck. It was harrowing and I can imagine how easy it would’ve been to have not made it out.
Excellent breakdown. Sadly, Cliff should have been in rescue mode as soon as Kathy’s raft flipped. Also, the boat spacing seemed distant considering that section of the run.
No he shouldn't have. You may think that in hindsight, but if everyone tried to immediately rescue every raft right when they flip then MORE people will be in danger
I came upon this video at random. Pretty sure I know that deceased rafter. I have a friend that died in a raft accident in 2015 on the Colorado. He was an all around remarkable good guy.
I remember running this section back in the 90s. I was a triathlete at the time and in really good condition. The guide said he'd never seen the water as high as it was. He told me if we flipped to crawl across the bottom and not try to swim. Freaked me out when he said that having never rafted before. I asked him why he didn't tell the other people and he said because they wouldn't be able to do it. Not sure what to make of all that.
Well in that much flow you wouldn't be able to crawl along the bottom anyways no matter how strong you are. You definitely do not want to go down to the bottom in white water conditions because there are lots of ways to get trapped against rocks or caught by submerged limbs in a fast flowing river. You just want to get on your back and get your feet up and in front of you and keep your head up and actively looking around until you can get rescued
@@NICEE406 I was on a fun flatwater float on tubes on a river weekend, and had a beer or two in me. I decided to try and flat pin myself in a tube against the pylon of a bridge... Got my jacket snagged upside down, and had to break the limb. I was this || close to not coming up, and this was the slow moving FLAT water of the lower Ocoee in TN. Underwater hazards are just about as dangerous as anything. I almost lost my breath, even though I took a deep one right before smacking the pylon. I felt like a complete noob.
This video is way too short, and way too quick to place blame. As are most of the commenters. Every boat in a string may flip. It’s the responsibility of each preceding boat to find a safe, secure place to assist in a potential rescue. The last boat in the string, the sweep, is designated to rescue swimmers from preceding boats. If it goes over, they are reliant upon the other boats. This is extremely important on big, difficult water. The downstream boats, which should be safely eddied, are designated to “catch” or “chase.” Catch means picking up swimmers. You’re in catch mode until everyone is accounted for. Only then do you chase downstream to get the raft, gear, etc., but only if the incident is secured, i.e., you can rally everyone above the next rapid. The guide who flipped the boat can be blamed for taking the wrong line, or for not running it properly. It happens. Male or female, weak or strong, experienced or not, it happens. The old saying says: “There are two kinds of boaters. Those who have flipped, and those who will.” Go, and learn, and try, and fail, and cry before you blame.
Propper prior planning prevents piss poor performance. The 7 Ps. What ever happened to everyone who is participating in the rafting go through all the drills prior to launch? This includes showing you have the ability to save yourself swimming with all your equipment on. A person over board is an EMERGENCY NO MATTER WHAT...
I was a guide for 12 years on the middle fork in Idaho. It was amazing the idiots outfitters employed as guides. They put grandmas in half inflated duckies and loose life jackets all the time. Its just dumb luck that more don't die from guide negligence. I've seen so many nasty swims. I had to get out, it drove me insane. I burnt out getting angry at frat boy guides.
Same with me. I guided on the American, Trukee and Yuba before I went to West Virginia to do the Gauley and New. It was a high water year. We had caught the tail end of a couple hurricanes. Nobody died amazingly. Every day it seemed you would see someone get sucked under a rock or something horrific and everyone would just laugh nervously about it. The next spring in Cali was a really high water year and I again saw someone in a near death situation that scared the shit out of me. Lady just went into shock for no fucking reason. She was staring at the sky and played zero part in her own rescue. She had severe hypothermia, but ended up okay. Part of me thought it was a suicide attempt or something. It was crazy its freaking class 3! It made me question why i was doing this. Its supposed to be fun. Too many times i have ended up swimming the biggest rapid, the one you dont want to swim, because some customer screwed us somehow... I've been thinking about getting back into it.
@@weaksause6878 Get fit before reentry. I made that mistake, and it cost me some ligament damage. Also, I had a friend die on the Gauley. He died shovinga girl towards safety, she made it, he didnt. He stayed under a bus sized undercut just past shopwreck.
I ran Westwater in the late spring of 2000. 3,100 CFS. I was not prepared for big water. I was kayaking and got goofed up in wave trains. I swam each of the first three rapids independently. On the third swim we were two rapids above Skull. The other kayakers got me out of the current. They ran the next rapid and I sat on the river bank, trembling. A BLM ranger was on a trip with his mom and dog. He stopped for me and put my kayak on the back of his raft. I rode skull and the rest of the big rapids. He booted me after the drops and I waited for my friends to catch up. Westwater may is no joke. The water level is everything. The nature of the river changes with the CFS. I sold my boat a couple years later.
1) In terms of the rescue curve, Kathy’s attempt to self-rescue was unsuccessful. Should she have been able to get on top of the flipped raft? I think that it should be expected of guides to be able to get onto the top of their boat on their own and flip the raft over as just a basic requirement, esp in rivers where flips can happen in dangerous situations. 2) Rescue by other rafters in your group is the next line of defense. Discuss the impact of spacing on the rescue or lack of rescue? Spacing felt right, just felt wrong that the other boat didn't even try to rescue till it was too late. When I was rafting (an albeit much less dangerous river) our boat stopped halfway through a series of rapids to pickup a kayaker that swam ahead of us but got stuck on a small island. I think that it was important to go in to rescue ASAP. 3) When does rescue mode begin? Should Cliff have waited nearly two minutes in the eddy before pursuing Kathy’s raft? same as above^ 4) If you were the guide in Cliff’s raft, could you make “rescue mode” into an exciting activity for passengers? What would you do? Again, back to my experiences. When I was rafting and we had to rescue swimmers it always was super exciting and felt really good in the end, so I think that making rescuing other swimmers a top priority would both be fun for the passengers as well as ensure better safety.
Few things here: firstly it was not mentioned how the guy drowned. It appears that he was past the major hydraulics and, as this was a commercial trip, I’m sure he had a certified pfd. Did he get hyperthermic? Heart attack? Was he injured during the flip? Did he strike a rock? Hit a strainer? Another hole? Water/air temp was not mentioned and is crucial to understanding what happened. Culpability is always a factor on a commercial trip of course, given that there are certain legal and professional standards that have to be adhered to. But anybody in this game knows the massive complexity and variables that are involved in coordinating responses in fast moving white water. Leadership and training are everything. Climbing back on to the raft is handy sometimes but not crucial ( an upturned boat is, literally, a slip ‘n slide and can l launch the unsuspecting into a hard object) and it looks like she’d have had very little ability to navigate towards a swimmer were she have been able to do so. It would be pure luck that he drifted up to the upturned boat. Most important is teaching paid passengers (as they’re mostly unable to scramble up onto an upturned boat in any event) to hang on to the upstream side of the boat whenever possible until drifting into an eddy or slack water and how to “swim” correctly in whitewater and how to understand how an eddy can be a safe haven while awaiting rescue by other boats. I’m sure that the basics of simple self rescue were covered in the morning’s safety talk. I like to go over this stuff between rapids repeatedly as, for most, the alien environment generally puts folks into a sort of mental overload which can lead to vapor lock. But, of course, the odd thing about the guide impressing his passengers with his geological prowess for two minutes while swimmers and flipped boats drift by is of course unfathomable. I’ve never, in 30 years of boating, not seen action stations and whistles blowing etc the moment there’s a “swimmer” in the water. It seems like there’s something fundamentally amiss with a guide doing this - regardless of experience and training. Very strange. At high water a boat/swimmer can go a long way indeed in two minutes. Boat spacing. Well we all know that even with the best intentions and training spacing goes to hell at various times in a day of boating - most especially at fast high water where the most immediate factor in a rapid is keeping your own line. Ten seconds in fast high water can put the raft ahead of you almost out of sight. The key point then is automatic re-grouping and rallying at the first available eddy below each rapid, and, of course close attention to the boats in front and behind the moment your boat becomes stable and in control. It’s always so horribly sad to hear of someone going out for a fantastic day of boating, but sadly drowning instead. In all my years of very gnarly boating I’ve never been on a trip with a fatality but have, like all soul boaters, many many times contemplated the misery of dealing with a fatality. My heart goes out to all involved. I’ve always said, however, that there’s no true adventure without risk - the greater the risk, the greater the adventure. Hopefully all these young guides in this incident understand this, stayed with the sport, and have become even better boaters post accident.
Skull is not the last major rapid. There are 3 more below that are serious for rafts or swimmers. Eddies are also pretty scarce and the walls steep in that stretch, so it would not be easy to get to shore and get out of the water. This looks like a bucket boat, so--as you note--the bottom is as slick as snot with nothing to grab hold of (a self-bailer has holes all the way around that you can stick your fingers in). When I guided out of Moab we used to run belly lines tied to the oar towers when the water was high, so that you had a way to haul yourself on top if the boat flipped (and have something to hold onto so you could stay there). It worked for me and all the other guides who had to use it. I think that Kathy is getting beaten up for the wrong thing: most people couldn't get on top of that boat without a belly line--not even big strapping men--so she should have had one rigged (or at least flip lines). The slides show a paddle boat recovery which is very different and not how oar boats get righted. There's no way Kathy or any other single guide could flip that oar boat back upright midstream alone, nor "swim it to shore". It's too heavy. Unless it eddied out on it's own (unlikely) or one of the other boats could grab it and row it to shore or throwbag it and swing it over, the group would be dealing with righting the boat in the flatwater section after it ran through the rest of the rapids...after picking up all the swimming guests with the other boats. Cliff's non-action is a mystery. Maybe he thought the other two boats eddied out below the rapid on the other side were better positioned to help? They looked closer. I'm surprised they didn't get savaged in the analysis: they should have chased Charlie and the other swimmers, or at least had throwbags ready. But I didn't see any evidence of that.
2 victims drowned. The boat was capsized for miles before the water calmed enough to recover the raft. "Charlie" was already on the "Kyles" other raft receiving CPR before the rapids were even over with. @20,100 cfs the eddies are deadly and claimed the life of a 2nd victim from a private group who was holding onto this same capsized raft. Both had PFDs but they were pulled under with the strong hydraulics. Life jackets are NOT full proof protection against drowning. No signs of head trauma
I have rafted this stretch of water. And i have been on a raft that flipped in the funnel rocks. And I swam the room of doom until I could get close enough to the rock wall to push myself off and out of the washing machine I was stuck in. And I was pushed off the raft I tried climb into. Some brave canoe-ists rushed out of the eddy to get me when they saw the turd push me with his paddle back into the river ... they broke a wooden oar on a rock in their immediate response to come get me! They ushered me to a different raft. I drank a Miller and pondered the bent frame on the boat that threw me. Good times.
I think I would have pressed charges on the guy that pushed you back. I see aggravated assault, attempted murder, manslaughter, and a few others. No way, I would let it go. At the very least i would find them on solid ground and put them in the hospital. And you can really hurt someone pushing an oar blade into them
@@jamesbutler8821 i was young and invincible... But the canoe guys gave him holy hell. He claimed i was on the wrong side of the boat, but i was on the upstream side, which is the safe side to be on. Thanks for the thought. 😘
The guide that trained me on the Pigeon in TN (Ewok) required us to pass before being able to guide. This included swimming the keeper rapid lost guide, as he would kick us out of the raft right before the hole and teaching how to cannonball up if it did keep us. Same rapid he would flip our boat and we had to get on to the raft to flip the raft upright then go rescue all the other trainees that were in the raft. If you couldn't complete this you didn't become a guide. As well as CPR and first aid cert. I thought this was standard protocol. ESPECIALLY on that kind of water!!
The guides in Maine made it sound like all the guides had to be able to do all you listed or they couldn't be guides. Seems crazy she was allowed to be a guide but couldn't even pull herself onto the raft at a minimum
@@corners3755 Getting on top of a flipped raft is harder than you think, especially if the raft is not rigged for that. Obviously you've never tried...
It would be interesting to know about the duty of the victim. He was probably taught to swim to safety (the raft or to shore, for example). Did he try? Was he advised to do this, or something else?
Have you ever swam in a powerful Class IV/V rapid? It ain't that easy and one may be struggling just to stay up enough to breathe once in a while. Not to mention that it's hard to see what is where when yer eyeball is 3" above the water in the troughs and yer gettin' pushed through the waves.
The standards for raft guides are very low. Every commercial trip has guides who are overweight and/or are incapable of climbing on top of an overturned raft. The industry is under regulated.
@@rivernet62 So in other words you're not actually aware of any qualifications or restrictions as to who can be or how guiding works? We booked a guided kayak trip just this last week and they didn't even end up in the water with us just gave us boats and told us about certain hazards along the way then wished us the best of luck sending us on our lonely inexperienced unprepared way. Seems pretty relaxed based off that experience...
@@tengonadacluewhatsgutsprec1419 Thanks for your reply. I am aware. If you re-read my comment, I advised the person that they could also become aware the same way I did. As can you.
I dont know if I am satisfied with this kind of clip. It raises more questions than giving answers. If everybody else understood what exactly was done wrong and how could it be done better please sum it up for me. So far I got: missing stirrup on the boat. Boats too far away from each other on the river. Another guide wasted two minutes.
For the most part, that is a good start. The protocol was to be able to get on top of your raft and right it or ride it upside down. This was a training item in guide orientation. Second, spacing was an issue. Third, if two rafts are traveling at the same speed how long does it take for the second raft to catch the first raft if it start two minutes later. You get the drift. Rescue mode begins when you see the upside down raft floating by. Perhaps, this last point is most egregious. It is a group trip. Hope that this helps.
@@scholedaleproductions7324 Thanks for helping me out. But I guess thats what I mean: It would be easier to understand your clips, if you would make simple statements, that can be discussed. Instead of raising questions, then everybody has to come up with the same conclusion (which never happens in reality) what you hint with that, and then the discussion can be started, often with a misunderstanding. One step too much. And often misleading. So instead of: "Third, if two rafts are traveling at the same speed how long does it take for the second raft to catch the first raft if it start two minutes later." There is a question mark missing, because thats in fact a question. That indicates that you actually want to make a statement, but you frame it as a question. So it would be easier to understand, if you would make a statement: "If two boats travel in a time distance of two minutes, it takes two minutes for the second boat to reach the site, if the first boat capsizes. And even longer to reach a swimmer, who also moves forward with the current. Thats too long." Or even simpler and better: "Two minutes time difference between the boats travelling on the river is too far away to assist each other." This is just one example. But I have the feeling you are doing that pretty often in the clip. And you might think: but thats just another way to put it. Surely everybody will get what I mean. As a school teacher for politics (thats a subject here) I often ask pupils what they meant in their written exams. At first I only wanted to reassure myself that I understood them well. And then I was mind blown, what kind of seemingly absurd conclusions they came up analyzing a certain subject and how we had a total misunderstanding. For example: If you have hundred people read the sentence: "Third, if two rafts are traveling at the same speed how long does it take for the second raft to catch the first raft if it start two minutes later." Some minor percentage of your audience will always conclude, that you suggest more time distance, because boats collide at the river. (I studied didactic and sport science and worked as a trainer as well.)
A trip for the memory book.. I figure I'll be the crazy coot in the retirement home telling river running stories that no body believes until the photo albums come out.
@@b-lew777 You are Welcome... The place is awesome we have done 2 Loma to Lake Powell trips, awesome scenery and great times.. but the logistics and permits were a PITA
2:30 Your raft clearly needs a synthetic muscle fiber integrated into the material so that the AI which is hardstitched into the self healing criss-crossing neural fibers can, after detecting the raft has flipped, just, you know....tell the raft to pull itself into a reversed configuration on the z-axis so you don't need to flip the damn thing. It will also squeeze itself down where you grab on to help you back in...obviously.
I believe that you are referring to the discussion question. The issue is whether rescue mode is an activity like any other activity and as such you can make it an important part of the total experience for your passengers. Paddle rafting is generally a team activity. Most guides are building their crew as a team to work together to successfully run the rapids. The rapids provide the challenge for the team building activity. In oar rafts, there tends to be less emphasis on team building and passengers tend to be passengers. Rescue is an activity that also provides a challenge and team effort. If we can aid in a rescue and help pull in swimmers, team building is enhanced, we are really good as a team, and in this sense, it can be exciting for the passengers. Helping others can be personally rewarding too. Most rescues involve pulling swimmers into the raft and are usually without injury. Drownings are rare, no fun and definitely a downer. The essence of this question is whether you can make rescue, under normal circumstances, like the rafting activity itself and enhance the passenger’s experience.
NPS several years back was paid off to allow rafting the river with “professional “ companies only. no private rafts allowed. Time to hold NPS responsible for their negligence.
This is completely and utterly false. One, BLM runs this area. Two, private trips are completely legal. You do need a permit as it is very popular. www.blm.gov/visit/westwater-canyon-river-permits
The force of hydraulic water features will keep you under water regardless if you're wearing a PFD. You're advised to swim deeper or to the side in order to exit the 'washing machine' cycle because it's an insane amount of force pushing you down
Kathy died because she tried to climb on top of the raft. If she instead swam toward the river left bank, she would have bypassed skull hole. If she had successfully climbed on top of the raft, she would have still been swept into skull hole and thrown into the hydraulic.
I believe it was Charlie who died, not Kathy. Kathy was the guide and needed to climb on top of her raft so that she could flip it right side up and begin rescuing her passengers.
@@WW-hr1hd right, charlie died. But rules dont hold firm in every instance. Cathy would not have had time to upright the raft in high water before Skull rapid. Those rapids at this flow run together in fact. Even if she did manage to flip it upright just in the nik of time, she would still be floating right into Skull Hole. If they were a mile apart, this would be a different story, but they are one rapid, here at this flow, and they would have less than a minute to do everything that they needed to do, which is impossible without a crazy level of luck. The videographers "should have" of uprighting the raft looks good in a text book, but not in real life in this instance. Skull Hole is not to mess with to risk swimmining into. Swimmers going into it get flushed 50 feet deep to the bottom of the river here, the Room of Doom being the least of their worries, at that point. Cathy should have skirted Funnel rapid wave train on the left. Better yet, the company should have realized that they shouldnt be guiding folks down the river at high water. They were seriously risking lives for a laughably meager amount of money. Even a mugger wouldnt have any lower of moral ground to stand on.
This is a pretty poorly organized incident review. No discussion on what led to the death, discontinuous narrative, zero impetus on what to fix, total lackadaisical tone from the narrator. Get your shit together and provide some actual value if you're going to review this.
Shit goes sideways sometimes. The guides involved could have done more. In particular, the upright boat should have taken off after swimmers sooner. However, what do you people think happens in class 5 rapids? I can just pause it and come pick your fat tourist ass out the water? Shit happens like ALL the time in big water. And sometimes you’re not at a good angle/the water is fighting you getting back in the boat. It’s straight up stated to the guests that this is a possibility. To everyone horrified that this could happen, i recommend your local six flags. RIP
Of course it's a risky activity, that's not in question. But the guides have a responsibility to take basic steps to minimize the risk, and that didn't happen here. Spacing their boats out that far is unbelievably negligent in this canyon. I used to guide this canyon and we would always be within 100 -150 feet of each other to be ready for a rescue, which is needed fairly regularly. That guy wouldn't have died if several guides were better prepared or paying attention to the situation. Also, not that it matters, but these are class 3-4 rapids.
@@1themadbluebird JMO, but I always thought people rated rapids according to his/her abilities. Your Class 3-4 rapid is someone else's Class 5 or unrunnable.
@@richstex4736 LMAO that's not how it works. I'm imagining customers lining up to go down the river and ones of the guides stands up and says, "Ok, hop in my boat if you want class 3 rapids, or in old Kitchener Leslie's boat if you want class 5."
@@1themadbluebird Ok, Binky, while you're busy retrieving your dislodged backside, I'll inform you that I am well aware of the rapid classification system. However, people of different abilities will PERCEIVE differing degrees of difficulty in running a particular rapid. If you are a river rat; then your experience, skill level, & confidence will be greater than that of the occasional paddler. While you may consider that Class III as no big deal, it may be as imposing as a Class V to a lesser talented paddler; at which point the classification of a rapid becomes a more personal judgement, which in no way affects the official classification.
I love rafting. I felt it unnecessary for the end of this story. if you step in my boat. you know the risks. not sure if you're a lawyer. but, the water they were in is big. the people in her raft knew the risks for fun. God rest her soul 🙏
@@tinyboater1944 I wasn’t saying I wouldn’t rescue somebody, I was pointing out to another commenter that ….as far as the law is concerned….if you see a person drowning in a pool and don’t jump in…you are not legally liable.
I think the water temperatur of Colorado river should also be kept in mind when it comes to rescue plans. Regardless of the difficulty of the rapids a swimmer will only survive a few minutes in the cold water of the Colorado river. First (maybe after two minutes 46degrees) you will lose your power to move. then you will get unconscious and die. If i were a boater i would consider wearing at least a neoprene suit bevor entereing a difficult rapid. there is a high possibility that the cold water had a big impact on cathy losing her power, becoming unconscious and than drowning. In the european Alps (e.g. the Oetz river) every year people drown because they chose their clothing because of the air- but not the cold water temperature. But it should be otherwise. This accident maybe is also an example of wearing the wrong clothes fog this situation.
My experience is that women can make excellent guides. I find that women often compensate with good technique and river running skills. Her demise was one of the route taken and I would maintain that the location of the perimeter line off center of the tube would make it difficult for a lot of people to get back on top of the raft. This is the type of thing to find out and solve during guide training in calmer water with fewer consequences.
That day, 2 people actually died holding on to that capsized raft as it floated for miles. "Charlie" was part of the commercial group but the other victim 27yrs old was on a private raft who was traveling closely behind the commercial group for safety. A day I will never forget. I have the GoPro footage from our boat, but I appreciate being able to see from other angles. Thank you for your breakdown
Wow, thanks for sharing that. Water must have been cold to kill a young guy, but flush drowning would be pretty easy in there, too.
This is correct. There were two people who died, the other being a private boater. Definitely, quite a tragedy. Regarding your second question, I don't have the video of the guides anymore. And yes, it is a day that you will remember. I hope that you will go rafting again. I know that dealing with these cases where there is a fatality sometimes taints my own boating experience.
Every time I go rafting I make sure and stress with my group the importance of any time someone is in the water to assume that they are not OK. The group must always be working on safety. Any time anyone is in the water it is everyone's responsibility to get them out as soon as possible. I will not raf with some oars men that do not understand this.
I kayak but same thing I might go ahead in easy water or level 3 stuff but never out of sight and always wait for the showers at mid or end of dangerous water just in case someone goes out gets tipped and can right themselves, I've had people say they were putting their life in my hands and I made sure to be on point with direction, got him through class 4 flooded lower yough his first time ever kayaking I found out later but he only tipped 3 5imes and listened great
I've had that same lesson imparted to me many times. I'm amazed at all the comments here re: bad guides. I've been doing adventure trips for 30 yrs. & have always had great, competent guides who stressed safety. I actually enjoy being part of the rescue squad & putting into action the steps my guides taught me. Just added more rescues several weeks ago on the Rogue River.
I worked at a rafting company on the Arkansas river a few years ago, during a summer where the water was higher than it had been in 15 or so years. I originally came to be a raft guide, but decided I didn’t want to be the only one in charge if it came down to rescuing someone/everyone if we flipped. So I opted to work in the front and just go on the trips when I could.
There was a section of the river that was similar to that “room of doom” (not sure we had a name for it since it was record high water and a feature we don’t see often) and we flipped right before it. I planned to kick off the rock face so I didn’t get stuck in the eddy, but it sucked me down anyway. I’m certainly no pleb in the water and can usually take care of myself, and even after hearing the “safety talk” every damn day, I still ended up inhaling water from the shock of it. I managed to cannon-ball-starfish my way out of it after a minute getting chundered, but it honestly felt like sheer luck. It was harrowing and I can imagine how easy it would’ve been to have not made it out.
I have been chundered myself, i had to find the flow and starfish too, but used my stick to do it.
Excellent breakdown. Sadly, Cliff should have been in rescue mode as soon as Kathy’s raft flipped. Also, the boat spacing seemed distant considering that section of the run.
No he shouldn't have. You may think that in hindsight, but if everyone tried to immediately rescue every raft right when they flip then MORE people will be in danger
I came upon this video at random.
Pretty sure I know that deceased rafter. I have a friend that died in a raft accident in 2015 on the Colorado. He was an all around remarkable good guy.
I remember running this section back in the 90s. I was a triathlete at the time and in really good condition. The guide said he'd never seen the water as high as it was. He told me if we flipped to crawl across the bottom and not try to swim. Freaked me out when he said that having never rafted before. I asked him why he didn't tell the other people and he said because they wouldn't be able to do it. Not sure what to make of all that.
He was screwing with you.
Well in that much flow you wouldn't be able to crawl along the bottom anyways no matter how strong you are. You definitely do not want to go down to the bottom in white water conditions because there are lots of ways to get trapped against rocks or caught by submerged limbs in a fast flowing river. You just want to get on your back and get your feet up and in front of you and keep your head up and actively looking around until you can get rescued
@@NICEE406 I was on a fun flatwater float on tubes on a river weekend, and had a beer or two in me.
I decided to try and flat pin myself in a tube against the pylon of a bridge...
Got my jacket snagged upside down, and had to break the limb. I was this || close to not coming up, and this was the slow moving FLAT water of the lower Ocoee in TN. Underwater hazards are just about as dangerous as anything. I almost lost my breath, even though I took a deep one right before smacking the pylon. I felt like a complete noob.
If you've rafted this section, the roar of Skull Rapid as your approaching during high water is deafening.
This video is way too short, and way too quick to place blame. As are most of the commenters.
Every boat in a string may flip. It’s the responsibility of each preceding boat to find a safe, secure place to assist in a potential rescue. The last boat in the string, the sweep, is designated to rescue swimmers from preceding boats. If it goes over, they are reliant upon the other boats. This is extremely important on big, difficult water.
The downstream boats, which should be safely eddied, are designated to “catch” or “chase.” Catch means picking up swimmers. You’re in catch mode until everyone is accounted for. Only then do you chase downstream to get the raft, gear, etc., but only if the incident is secured, i.e., you can rally everyone above the next rapid.
The guide who flipped the boat can be blamed for taking the wrong line, or for not running it properly. It happens. Male or female, weak or strong, experienced or not, it happens. The old saying says: “There are two kinds of boaters. Those who have flipped, and those who will.”
Go, and learn, and try, and fail, and cry before you blame.
Propper prior planning prevents piss poor performance. The 7 Ps. What ever happened to everyone who is participating in the rafting go through all the drills prior to launch? This includes showing you have the ability to save yourself swimming with all your equipment on. A person over board is an EMERGENCY NO MATTER WHAT...
If there is a flip - always, ALWAYS go to help! It’s important to have each other’s backs under any circumstances.
I was a guide for 12 years on the middle fork in Idaho. It was amazing the idiots outfitters employed as guides. They put grandmas in half inflated duckies and loose life jackets all the time. Its just dumb luck that more don't die from guide negligence. I've seen so many nasty swims. I had to get out, it drove me insane. I burnt out getting angry at frat boy guides.
Same with me. I guided on the American, Trukee and Yuba before I went to West Virginia to do the Gauley and New. It was a high water year. We had caught the tail end of a couple hurricanes. Nobody died amazingly. Every day it seemed you would see someone get sucked under a rock or something horrific and everyone would just laugh nervously about it.
The next spring in Cali was a really high water year and I again saw someone in a near death situation that scared the shit out of me. Lady just went into shock for no fucking reason. She was staring at the sky and played zero part in her own rescue. She had severe hypothermia, but ended up okay. Part of me thought it was a suicide attempt or something. It was crazy its freaking class 3!
It made me question why i was doing this. Its supposed to be fun. Too many times i have ended up swimming the biggest rapid, the one you dont want to swim, because some customer screwed us somehow... I've been thinking about getting back into it.
@@weaksause6878 Get fit before reentry. I made that mistake, and it cost me some ligament damage.
Also, I had a friend die on the Gauley. He died shovinga girl towards safety, she made it, he didnt. He stayed under a bus sized undercut just past shopwreck.
I ran Westwater in the late spring of 2000. 3,100 CFS. I was not prepared for big water. I was kayaking and got goofed up in wave trains. I swam each of the first three rapids independently. On the third swim we were two rapids above Skull. The other kayakers got me out of the current. They ran the next rapid and I sat on the river bank, trembling.
A BLM ranger was on a trip with his mom and dog. He stopped for me and put my kayak on the back of his raft.
I rode skull and the rest of the big rapids. He booted me after the drops and I waited for my friends to catch up.
Westwater may is no joke. The water level is everything. The nature of the river changes with the CFS.
I sold my boat a couple years later.
Lol itvwas that bad huh?
1) In terms of the rescue curve, Kathy’s attempt to self-rescue was unsuccessful. Should she have been able to get on top of the flipped raft?
I think that it should be expected of guides to be able to get onto the top of their boat on their own and flip the raft over as just a basic requirement, esp in rivers where flips can happen in dangerous situations.
2) Rescue by other rafters in your group is the next line of defense. Discuss the impact of spacing on the rescue or lack of rescue?
Spacing felt right, just felt wrong that the other boat didn't even try to rescue till it was too late. When I was rafting (an albeit much less dangerous river) our boat stopped halfway through a series of rapids to pickup a kayaker that swam ahead of us but got stuck on a small island. I think that it was important to go in to rescue ASAP.
3) When does rescue mode begin? Should Cliff have waited nearly two minutes in the eddy before pursuing Kathy’s raft?
same as above^
4) If you were the guide in Cliff’s raft, could you make “rescue mode” into an exciting activity for passengers? What would you do?
Again, back to my experiences. When I was rafting and we had to rescue swimmers it always was super exciting and felt really good in the end, so I think that making rescuing other swimmers a top priority would both be fun for the passengers as well as ensure better safety.
Few things here: firstly it was not mentioned how the guy drowned. It appears that he was past the major hydraulics and, as this was a commercial trip, I’m sure he had a certified pfd. Did he get hyperthermic? Heart attack? Was he injured during the flip? Did he strike a rock? Hit a strainer? Another hole? Water/air temp was not mentioned and is crucial to understanding what happened.
Culpability is always a factor on a commercial trip of course, given that there are certain legal and professional standards that have to be adhered to. But anybody in this game knows the massive complexity and variables that are involved in coordinating responses in fast moving white water. Leadership and training are everything.
Climbing back on to the raft is handy sometimes but not crucial ( an upturned boat is, literally, a slip ‘n slide and can l launch the unsuspecting into a hard object) and it looks like she’d have had very little ability to navigate towards a swimmer were she have been able to do so. It would be pure luck that he drifted up to the upturned boat. Most important is teaching paid passengers (as they’re mostly unable to scramble up onto an upturned boat in any event) to hang on to the upstream side of the boat whenever possible until drifting into an eddy or slack water and how to “swim” correctly in whitewater and how to understand how an eddy can be a safe haven while awaiting rescue by other boats. I’m sure that the basics of simple self rescue were covered in the morning’s safety talk. I like to go over this stuff between rapids repeatedly as, for most, the alien environment generally puts folks into a sort of mental overload which can lead to vapor lock.
But, of course, the odd thing about the guide impressing his passengers with his geological prowess for two minutes while swimmers and flipped boats drift by is of course unfathomable. I’ve never, in 30 years of boating, not seen action stations and whistles blowing etc the moment there’s a “swimmer” in the water. It seems like there’s something fundamentally amiss with a guide doing this - regardless of experience and training. Very strange. At high water a boat/swimmer can go a long way indeed in two minutes.
Boat spacing. Well we all know that even with the best intentions and training spacing goes to hell at various times in a day of boating - most especially at fast high water where the most immediate factor in a rapid is keeping your own line. Ten seconds in fast high water can put the raft ahead of you almost out of sight. The key point then is automatic re-grouping and rallying at the first available eddy below each rapid, and, of course close attention to the boats in front and behind the moment your boat becomes stable and in control.
It’s always so horribly sad to hear of someone going out for a fantastic day of boating, but sadly drowning instead. In all my years of very gnarly boating I’ve never been on a trip with a fatality but have, like all soul boaters, many many times contemplated the misery of dealing with a fatality. My heart goes out to all involved. I’ve always said, however, that there’s no true adventure without risk - the greater the risk, the greater the adventure.
Hopefully all these young guides in this incident understand this, stayed with the sport, and have become even better boaters post accident.
Skull is not the last major rapid. There are 3 more below that are serious for rafts or swimmers. Eddies are also pretty scarce and the walls steep in that stretch, so it would not be easy to get to shore and get out of the water.
This looks like a bucket boat, so--as you note--the bottom is as slick as snot with nothing to grab hold of (a self-bailer has holes all the way around that you can stick your fingers in). When I guided out of Moab we used to run belly lines tied to the oar towers when the water was high, so that you had a way to haul yourself on top if the boat flipped (and have something to hold onto so you could stay there). It worked for me and all the other guides who had to use it. I think that Kathy is getting beaten up for the wrong thing: most people couldn't get on top of that boat without a belly line--not even big strapping men--so she should have had one rigged (or at least flip lines).
The slides show a paddle boat recovery which is very different and not how oar boats get righted. There's no way Kathy or any other single guide could flip that oar boat back upright midstream alone, nor "swim it to shore". It's too heavy. Unless it eddied out on it's own (unlikely) or one of the other boats could grab it and row it to shore or throwbag it and swing it over, the group would be dealing with righting the boat in the flatwater section after it ran through the rest of the rapids...after picking up all the swimming guests with the other boats.
Cliff's non-action is a mystery. Maybe he thought the other two boats eddied out below the rapid on the other side were better positioned to help? They looked closer. I'm surprised they didn't get savaged in the analysis: they should have chased Charlie and the other swimmers, or at least had throwbags ready. But I didn't see any evidence of that.
2 victims drowned. The boat was capsized for miles before the water calmed enough to recover the raft. "Charlie" was already on the "Kyles" other raft receiving CPR before the rapids were even over with. @20,100 cfs the eddies are deadly and claimed the life of a 2nd victim from a private group who was holding onto this same capsized raft. Both had PFDs but they were pulled under with the strong hydraulics. Life jackets are NOT full proof protection against drowning. No signs of head trauma
@@FFelix-yf1ir exactly
I have rafted this stretch of water. And i have been on a raft that flipped in the funnel rocks. And I swam the room of doom until I could get close enough to the rock wall to push myself off and out of the washing machine I was stuck in. And I was pushed off the raft I tried climb into. Some brave canoe-ists rushed out of the eddy to get me when they saw the turd push me with his paddle back into the river ... they broke a wooden oar on a rock in their immediate response to come get me!
They ushered me to a different raft.
I drank a Miller and pondered the bent frame on the boat that threw me.
Good times.
WTF? Someone pushed you off?
@@amyhayutin1738 Yep!
I think I would have pressed charges on the guy that pushed you back. I see aggravated assault, attempted murder, manslaughter, and a few others. No way, I would let it go. At the very least i would find them on solid ground and put them in the hospital. And you can really hurt someone pushing an oar blade into them
@@jamesbutler8821 i was young and invincible... But the canoe guys gave him holy hell. He claimed i was on the wrong side of the boat, but i was on the upstream side, which is the safe side to be on.
Thanks for the thought. 😘
No real mention of what happened to separate Charlie. All of a sudden, he’s dead.
they lost sight of him, happens quickly. Water is moving very fast.
The guide that trained me on the Pigeon in TN (Ewok) required us to pass before being able to guide. This included swimming the keeper rapid lost guide, as he would kick us out of the raft right before the hole and teaching how to cannonball up if it did keep us. Same rapid he would flip our boat and we had to get on to the raft to flip the raft upright then go rescue all the other trainees that were in the raft. If you couldn't complete this you didn't become a guide. As well as CPR and first aid cert. I thought this was standard protocol. ESPECIALLY on that kind of water!!
The guides in Maine made it sound like all the guides had to be able to do all you listed or they couldn't be guides. Seems crazy she was allowed to be a guide but couldn't even pull herself onto the raft at a minimum
@@corners3755 Getting on top of a flipped raft is harder than you think, especially if the raft is not rigged for that. Obviously you've never tried...
@@davidseslar5798 If a raft isn't rigged with a chicken strap, It shouldn't enter rapids like those. Period.
I know Ewok from the Ocoee.
@@izzyplusplusplus1004 ABSOLUTELY!!!
It would be interesting to know about the duty of the victim. He was probably taught to swim to safety (the raft or to shore, for example). Did he try? Was he advised to do this, or something else?
He was an undercover Russian operative and secretly assassinated in a rafting "accident". Who's Kathy? You guessed it, Dick Cheney.
Have you ever swam in a powerful Class IV/V rapid? It ain't that easy and one may be struggling just to stay up enough to breathe once in a while. Not to mention that it's hard to see what is where when yer eyeball is 3" above the water in the troughs and yer gettin' pushed through the waves.
@@davidseslar5798 Sure have! Many times :(
Interesting video ty. I suggest keeping the music low til very end of video. Hard to make out conclusion.
It’s easier to get on the raft from either end instead of the sides.
I grew up rafting westwater many times. Dangerous in many ways
Where is westwater?
Utah… little less than an hour west of Grand Junction, Colorado.
@@jackgaughan4027 TY
The standards for raft guides are very low. Every commercial trip has guides who are overweight and/or are incapable of climbing on top of an overturned raft. The industry is under regulated.
You must not be familiar with Colorado guide qualification requirements.
@@rivernet62 explain to me what you think the qualifications are?
@@carterlloyd I imagine you can look them up just as well as I can, don’t you think?
@@rivernet62 So in other words you're not actually aware of any qualifications or restrictions as to who can be or how guiding works? We booked a guided kayak trip just this last week and they didn't even end up in the water with us just gave us boats and told us about certain hazards along the way then wished us the best of luck sending us on our lonely inexperienced unprepared way. Seems pretty relaxed based off that experience...
@@tengonadacluewhatsgutsprec1419 Thanks for your reply. I am aware. If you re-read my comment, I advised the person that they could also become aware the same way I did. As can you.
What level rapids was this?
20,100cfs
Wow thanks, very informative!
The "ROOM OF DOOM" is no joke.
I dont know if I am satisfied with this kind of clip. It raises more questions than giving answers. If everybody else understood what exactly was done wrong and how could it be done better please sum it up for me.
So far I got: missing stirrup on the boat. Boats too far away from each other on the river. Another guide wasted two minutes.
For the most part, that is a good start. The protocol was to be able to get on top of your raft and right it or ride it upside down. This was a training item in guide orientation. Second, spacing was an issue. Third, if two rafts are traveling at the same speed how long does it take for the second raft to catch the first raft if it start two minutes later. You get the drift. Rescue mode begins when you see the upside down raft floating by. Perhaps, this last point is most egregious. It is a group trip. Hope that this helps.
@@scholedaleproductions7324 Thanks for helping me out. But I guess thats what I mean: It would be easier to understand your clips, if you would make simple statements, that can be discussed.
Instead of raising questions, then everybody has to come up with the same conclusion (which never happens in reality) what you hint with that, and then the discussion can be started, often with a misunderstanding.
One step too much. And often misleading.
So instead of: "Third, if two rafts are traveling at the same speed how long does it take for the second raft to catch the first raft if it start two minutes later." There is a question mark missing, because thats in fact a question. That indicates that you actually want to make a statement, but you frame it as a question.
So it would be easier to understand, if you would make a statement: "If two boats travel in a time distance of two minutes, it takes two minutes for the second boat to reach the site, if the first boat capsizes. And even longer to reach a swimmer, who also moves forward with the current. Thats too long." Or even simpler and better: "Two minutes time difference between the boats travelling on the river is too far away to assist each other."
This is just one example. But I have the feeling you are doing that pretty often in the clip.
And you might think: but thats just another way to put it. Surely everybody will get what I mean. As a school teacher for politics (thats a subject here) I often ask pupils what they meant in their written exams. At first I only wanted to reassure myself that I understood them well. And then I was mind blown, what kind of seemingly absurd conclusions they came up analyzing a certain subject and how we had a total misunderstanding. For example: If you have hundred people read the sentence: "Third, if two rafts are traveling at the same speed how long does it take for the second raft to catch the first raft if it start two minutes later." Some minor percentage of your audience will always conclude, that you suggest more time distance, because boats collide at the river. (I studied didactic and sport science and worked as a trainer as well.)
Whitewater rivers are not places for those who lack the proper physical and mental constitution.
The guide needs to be able to reclaim her raft and pull herself onto it. She failed at that
flipped ducky in Funnel on a February day .. swam the whole run.. not a fun swim to say the least
A trip for the memory book..
I figure I'll be the crazy coot in the retirement home telling river running stories that no body believes until the photo albums come out.
Where is this?
This is the West Water section of the Colorado River. it starts about 4 miles from the UT / Co border. it has Grand Canyon class rapids..
@@SegoMan thank you 🤙
@@b-lew777 You are Welcome...
The place is awesome we have done 2 Loma to Lake Powell trips, awesome scenery and great times.. but the logistics and permits were a PITA
2:30 Your raft clearly needs a synthetic muscle fiber integrated into the material so that the AI which is hardstitched into the self healing criss-crossing neural fibers can, after detecting the raft has flipped, just, you know....tell the raft to pull itself into a reversed configuration on the z-axis so you don't need to flip the damn thing.
It will also squeeze itself down where you grab on to help you back in...obviously.
Tragic.
Why would you want to make a rescue an "exciting" activity with your crew? Maybe I am misinterpreting the comment.
I believe that you are referring to the discussion question. The issue is whether rescue mode is an activity like any other activity and as such you can make it an important part of the total experience for your passengers. Paddle rafting is generally a team activity. Most guides are building their crew as a team to work together to successfully run the rapids. The rapids provide the challenge for the team building activity. In oar rafts, there tends to be less emphasis on team building and passengers tend to be passengers.
Rescue is an activity that also provides a challenge and team effort. If we can aid in a rescue and help pull in swimmers, team building is enhanced, we are really good as a team, and in this sense, it can be exciting for the passengers. Helping others can be personally rewarding too. Most rescues involve pulling swimmers into the raft and are usually without injury. Drownings are rare, no fun and definitely a downer.
The essence of this question is whether you can make rescue, under normal circumstances, like the rafting activity itself and enhance the passenger’s experience.
"Adrenaline"
Sounds like clif should be in some trouble to me.....
NPS several years back was paid off to allow rafting the river with “professional “ companies only. no private rafts allowed. Time to hold NPS responsible for their negligence.
This is completely and utterly false. One, BLM runs this area. Two, private trips are completely legal. You do need a permit as it is very popular.
www.blm.gov/visit/westwater-canyon-river-permits
1, private rafts do this section all the time. 2, this river isn't in a national park.
thank you pilom
wtf are you talking about GA- you’re way off
The plaintiff was pleased with the settlement? Wouldn’t he be dead?
The plaintiff was the victim's estate.
Required life jackets on board ! ?
The force of hydraulic water features will keep you under water regardless if you're wearing a PFD. You're advised to swim deeper or to the side in order to exit the 'washing machine' cycle because it's an insane amount of force pushing you down
Kathy died because she tried to climb on top of the raft. If she instead swam toward the river left bank, she would have bypassed skull hole. If she had successfully climbed on top of the raft, she would have still been swept into skull hole and thrown into the hydraulic.
I believe it was Charlie who died, not Kathy. Kathy was the guide and needed to climb on top of her raft so that she could flip it right side up and begin rescuing her passengers.
@@WW-hr1hd right, charlie died.
But rules dont hold firm in every instance. Cathy would not have had time to upright the raft in high water before Skull rapid. Those rapids at this flow run together in fact. Even if she did manage to flip it upright just in the nik of time, she would still be floating right into Skull Hole. If they were a mile apart, this would be a different story, but they are one rapid, here at this flow, and they would have less than a minute to do everything that they needed to do, which is impossible without a crazy level of luck. The videographers "should have" of uprighting the raft looks good in a text book, but not in real life in this instance.
Skull Hole is not to mess with to risk swimmining into. Swimmers going into it get flushed 50 feet deep to the bottom of the river here, the Room of Doom being the least of their worries, at that point.
Cathy should have skirted Funnel rapid wave train on the left. Better yet, the company should have realized that they shouldnt be guiding folks down the river at high water. They were seriously risking lives for a laughably meager amount of money. Even a mugger wouldnt have any lower of moral ground to stand on.
Wonder what happened to kenndys
This is a pretty poorly organized incident review. No discussion on what led to the death, discontinuous narrative, zero impetus on what to fix, total lackadaisical tone from the narrator. Get your shit together and provide some actual value if you're going to review this.
Shit goes sideways sometimes. The guides involved could have done more. In particular, the upright boat should have taken off after swimmers sooner.
However, what do you people think happens in class 5 rapids? I can just pause it and come pick your fat tourist ass out the water? Shit happens like ALL the time in big water. And sometimes you’re not at a good angle/the water is fighting you getting back in the boat.
It’s straight up stated to the guests that this is a possibility. To everyone horrified that this could happen, i recommend your local six flags.
RIP
Of course it's a risky activity, that's not in question. But the guides have a responsibility to take basic steps to minimize the risk, and that didn't happen here. Spacing their boats out that far is unbelievably negligent in this canyon. I used to guide this canyon and we would always be within 100 -150 feet of each other to be ready for a rescue, which is needed fairly regularly. That guy wouldn't have died if several guides were better prepared or paying attention to the situation.
Also, not that it matters, but these are class 3-4 rapids.
@@1themadbluebird JMO, but I always thought people rated rapids according to his/her abilities. Your Class 3-4 rapid is someone else's Class 5 or unrunnable.
@@richstex4736 LMAO that's not how it works. I'm imagining customers lining up to go down the river and ones of the guides stands up and says, "Ok, hop in my boat if you want class 3 rapids, or in old Kitchener Leslie's boat if you want class 5."
@@1themadbluebird Ok, Binky, while you're busy retrieving your dislodged backside, I'll inform you that I am well aware of the rapid classification system. However, people of different abilities will PERCEIVE differing degrees of difficulty in running a particular rapid. If you are a river rat; then your experience, skill level, & confidence will be greater than that of the occasional paddler. While you may consider that Class III as no big deal, it may be as imposing as a Class V to a lesser talented paddler; at which point the classification of a rapid becomes a more personal judgement, which in no way affects the official classification.
I never needed anyone to help me get back onto a flipped raft.
Then again, males are stronger than females, remember that rafting enthusiasts.
Bullshiiit.
@@threefreaksonaleash6619 I am a 20 year rafting guide veteran. Not bullshit. Truth.
@@threefreaksonaleash6619 Ya know, I do know one woman who was, maybe still is, as strong as most men. Julie Thornton. Ocoee river guide.
Disgusting
I love rafting. I felt it unnecessary for the end of this story. if you step in my boat. you know the risks. not sure if you're a lawyer. but, the water they were in is big.
the people in her raft knew the risks for fun. God rest her soul 🙏
Wow, yes we all assume our own responsibility on the river but we all have to look out for each other as well
@@nickkleminsky actually, unless a person has hired a guide….nobody owes anybody a duty to rescue….legally….morally is another question
@@mrkoolio4475 remind me never to raft with you.
@@tinyboater1944 I wasn’t saying I wouldn’t rescue somebody, I was pointing out to another commenter that ….as far as the law is concerned….if you see a person drowning in a pool and don’t jump in…you are not legally liable.
I think the water temperatur of Colorado river should also be kept in mind when it comes to rescue plans.
Regardless of the difficulty of the rapids a swimmer will only survive a few minutes in the cold water of the Colorado river.
First (maybe after two minutes 46degrees) you will lose your power to move. then you will get unconscious and die.
If i were a boater i would consider wearing at least a neoprene suit bevor entereing a difficult rapid.
there is a high possibility that the cold water had a big impact on cathy losing her power, becoming unconscious and than drowning.
In the european Alps (e.g. the Oetz river) every year people drown because they chose their clothing because of the air- but not the cold water temperature. But it should be otherwise.
This accident maybe is also an example of wearing the wrong clothes fog this situation.
The guy speaking could maybe not sound so bored. That was my most obvious observation with this video.
It's a training film.
Exactly if it's intended to educate then the narration should be so as to try to maintain the listeners attention.
You must be a single-celled Tik Tok lover.
I don't have a clue what that is?
@@JP-jn2yx oh u mean like a single called organism. Right yes. I am
Sounds like Kathy was physically unable to rescue her rafters, frankly I'm not sure how safe id feel with a woman commanding my Raft period
My experience is that women can make excellent guides. I find that women often compensate with good technique and river running skills. Her demise was one of the route taken and I would maintain that the location of the perimeter line off center of the tube would make it difficult for a lot of people to get back on top of the raft. This is the type of thing to find out and solve during guide training in calmer water with fewer consequences.
Some of the best boaters I know are females. Please remove your misogynistic ass out of this conversation.
You should take your own then! I’ll make sure all of our female guides follow your lines and take notes on how you rescue yourself in big water
The only bad raft guides I've noticed in my 35 years of paddling whitewater have all been jerks like you.
I have been around many very capable female guides that run the rivers better than men.
The possibility of a violent death is what makes these sorts of risky activities so inviting to some people. I have no sympathy for any of them.
Same here, when it comes down to it, they are endogenous drug addicts.
Yet you still drive a car and fly in airplanes... What makes these risky activities attractive to you? Do you have a death wish?