Hey guys, just wanted to clarify something since I'm getting a lot of comments about it. In my intro script, I wrote that I was not including the classic or mobile games. It just didn't come out when I was listing what games I wasn't including during the recording (cute ADHD moment). That's on me! Sorry about that guys! But yes, Dream Team would pass if it was included!
How did I know before even watching further in that Blaze was going to lift the franchise for this test like Atlas holds the heavens? In that line of thought, same with Cream. Sonic Rush was a jewel. I can see why so many fan devs are fixated on making variants of it, or things based on it.
@james656-k8e it’s either a “have these characters ever talked to anyone outside of Sonic” or “have these characters talked to anyone outside of their respective teams” and both the boys and girls can have this problem
I remember this essay on Amy Rose she actually is a completely complex character yet still very young so of course she's going to mention her best friend and hero a lot
I think for a real analysis you'd have to look at how often ANY character talks about something other than sonic. The story of these games usually revolve entirely around him regardless of the gender of the character. The bechdel test is supposed to be about "the men can talk about anything but the women are always focused on the men" if the first part isn't true then it doesn't really fit.
The bachdel test was created to show a bias in Hollywood productions and awards. When using a sample size like an entire year or decade's worth of films the test exposes a very obvious gap in the market not being made and recognized. Using the test to focus on a single franchise, title or character in the title tells is what got the public to turn against the test entirely.
@requiem6465It s not supposed to be a test in a way you perceive it. It s not "This movie passed, therefore it has good female representation" It's a point made by Miss Bechdel to say : "Media doesn't represent women almost whatsoever, you need a prove? Name one movie that at least has two women in it, that speak to each other about anything but men" It's not a test exactly it's a example of the barest possible minimum that most stories don't achieve
@requiem6465 especially considering sa1 failed despite amy's entire story arc is being more independent and less reliant on sonic. i wouldnt call amy's story arc feminist but it is progressive in a way the the bechdel test failed to find.
I feel a lot of the extended Sonic media has better luck passing the Bechdel test. Especially the various comics - though that’s probably because they don’t have the limitations that the games have that prevent their characters from interacting.
And then it fails the next breathe because the Bechdel test is SO FLAWED that even mentioning men in passing casues it to fail NO MATTER WHAT. Please really think about those poorly made parameters of the test.
Sonic and Shadow constantly get golden boy treatment while everyone else with the exception of Tails, Knuckles and Amy have very little to work with but at that’s been changing and we’re mostly past the “Sega gets rid of Sonic’s friends because the fandom whined about them” phase
@2bdaqueen268 i don't even think Somic should count since he's the main character he has to have story progression by default. Its not even like he actually changes as a person or anything tbh. Shadow is the only sonic character with real lore. He's the only one I feel you could write a book about
@illford I’d rather have stuff on the other characters though Shadow already has enough, I don’t care if he’s the only one with “real lore” I want the other characters to have the spotlight for once
In general, the Bechdel Test isn't actually very well suited to games like sonic. It was meant for movies and TV shows, and it's more useful as a tool for gathering stats.
I'd argue that'd be a more appropriate (and also more interesting) metric, especially for other games/franchises that are named after/revolve around series mascots like Sonic.
Yeah to be fair Sonic doesen't really have the focus too much on anything other than, well sonic or eggman, the test wasn't really made for games like that, but it was still interesting, i didn't find it as, depressing as she did that many of them failed but like, i kinda figured 😂 it has or atleast had a majority male audience at one sooo...
Unfortunately (or fortunately?) I think most of the games would pass pretty much immediately. Especially if Shadow or the Chaotix are in the game. Excluding Sonic Generations, most Sonic games with multiple characters usually have some sort of subplot that does not involve Sonic
The fact that Amy and Rouge have barely interacted at all across all the games they’ve been in together is such a crime. Give the girlies a chance, Sonic Team‼️
@lehashura490 I'll never forget how the Sonic Heroes manual specifically calls him a feminist. A bit random, since it never comes up in game, but good for him.
I think this series makes the pros and cons of the Bechdel test easy to see. For examples like the Sonic Rush games, it’s a great representation of what good inclusion can look like. For examples like Sonic Generations and Forces, it shows that most of the time a game will focus around the main character. And if they’re male, it’s much more likely to fail the test. It’s not always the case, but it’s why there’s variance.
The point of the Bechdel test to begin with is is to point out the large scale problem of women’s representation in media, rather than critique individual artworks. You really see this with the Sonic series, where the women are too often treated as either ‘the only/token woman’ or entirely secondary to the male cast members
This is partly due to the fact that the bechdel test wasn’t really made to test misogyny, but whether a not a lesbian ship could theoretically exist in a piece of media lmao. It’s interesting to me that it now has the connotation it does, given its origins.
@dragvrallass1658i don't really think that works. There's lots of stories where the test dosen't work due to a narrative tecnicality that renders it kinda worthless. Take Sonic Forces for example, _EVERY_ character there only talk about Sonic, not just the female ones. That game would pass if there was a female MC instead, but it dosen't really matter since there never was a representation issue in the first place.
IDW comics are really carrying female characters in Sonic... Amy, Cream, Vanilla, Blaze, Rouge, side characters like Wave... And of course the original characters, like Surge, Lanolin, Tangle, Jewel, and Whisper... like wow, the IDW comics are on a different level.
@DarkShadic9632 IDW is carrying because we get to see them more often, People don't have a problem with the fact that they're there They have a problem with the fact that they aren't as well written as in the games ( speaking obviously only for characters originating from the games)
Plus one of the absolute funniest moments in the comic is a conversation that passes the test. It's Cream telling her mom about the adventure she's just been on, and Amy and Rouge both have these wonderful looks of "Oh god Vanilla's going to kill us"
36:38 - 37:16 The Wii/"Ultimate" version obviously fails due to having no girls, but Sonic Colors DS actually has a bunch of Sonic's friends on the different planet attractions to give you a bunch of side missions, including Amy, Blaze, Cream and Rouge. It's still a fail though, as none of the girls are on the same planet to talk to each other and all of them talk to Sonic in order to give the side missions.
Shattered Crystal only passing because the women were talking about SHOES is just 😩 Obviously, the test does a good job at getting its point across, but that's straight up a textbook example of its limits.
The test is funny because it's such an incredibly low bar that passing the test means almost nothing on its own lol We're begging for scraps and can't even get that
Technically the test says talking about boys OR gendered stereotypes, and shopping/looking for shoes is definitely a stereotype conversation topic. Murdering and skinning your enemies to make boots from their hides, however....
@sideways5153 I think the test is interesting in the first place. Swap the gender of a main character and the test is fun to find 2 guys in the same situation, because I've done it with my sister with shows we watched together and they tend to fail as well. However sonic isn't even good at female characters in general and I think that's a pretty universal opinion?
27:32 Just so everyone knows, Ken Penders does NOT own Shade The Echidna, Sega does. Ken claimed on twitter once that he owns Shade simply because he believes she is a rip-off of Julie-Su, however, that is a lie. Ken legally does not have ownership of any of the characters or concepts introduced in Sonic Chronicles. Ken was simply acting smug, essentially saying "I can use Shade the Echidna as much as I want and Sega won't do a thing about it", but that doesn't give him legal ownership. Sega could absolutely use Shade the Echidna if they wanted to, they just don't do it because that would bring the attention of Ken Penders and Sega doesn't wanna have to deal with Ken anymore if they can avoid it.
Yeah and even if she WAS a rip off it wouldn’t mean he owns Shade. Just because you create a derivative work doesn’t mean the original copyright holder suddenly owns your work. Like if you create Sonic fan art, SEGA can’t suddenly use your art without permission just because it has Sonic in it. But this is the same guy who thinks he can use Planet Mobius and Floating Island because SEGA doesn’t use them anymore and thinks putting a hat and goatee on Knuckles makes him a new character that he can sell books with.
I think what we need to get these games to pass is to keep having Blaze in them. Also Tangle, cuz she's lowkey my favorite female character in Sonic now.
Me too, I think she just went by the FMV cinematics, because we have at least: Hang Castle: *Amy:* Aaahh! What happened to the floor? *Cream:* Actually Amy, the castle has returned back to normal. Hang Castle: *Cream:* Amy, it looks like we're stuck here. *Amy:* Don't worry, we'll be OK. -Final Fortress:- *-Amy:-*- I can't believe he built that thing.. it's huge!- *-Cream:-*- Maybe he doesn't like his neighbors much?- *Edit:* This one doesn't pass the test since they're talking about Eggman. (Still great video of course!)
Now that I think about it, maybe she erased the in-level banter from her memory, because of how grating it can be, especially when you get glitched by a stage repeatedly! 😁
funniest factoid about the bechdel test is that it was never put forth as an academically stringent tool for narrative analysis. It originated in an old queer zine where the joke basically was "can I headcanon this girl as lesbian".
That wasn’t the joke, read the actual comic I’m BEGGING YOU. The comic goes like this; “Have you seen the insert new movie here?” “No, I haven’t, I have this new rule that I can only watch movies that have two or more female characters talking about something other than a man. The last Movie I’ve seen was alien, it has two women who talk about how scared they are of the alien, so it passes.” An entire panel of silence to let that sink in, as this comic came out in 1985, alien came out in 1979 six years before meaning no movie suited these BARE MINIMUM STANDARDS, in six fucking years. The two then walk home, talking about watching alien. The joke, if there is any is that this is bare minimum and Hollywood hasn’t met it. One of the female characters calls it strict despite it being anything but.
@awesomeraf7851 And Charmy. And Maria. And Tails. And Omochao. And Shahra. But not Sage. Pretty sure she's the one character neither Izzibel or Jehtt voice act for in his videos. It's Hannah Chapin, if you were wondering
49:20 So Cream is too young for a mock murder mystery, but Phoenix Wright is perfectly fine with bringing six-year-old Pearl to an actual murder trial!
Some things of note 1. What about the NPC in Unleashed. 2. Amy and Cream appear in the DS version of Colors. 3. Roger first voiced Sonic in for a Sonic themed hotel room in Alton Towers and then started voicing him in the games with Free Riders.
Colors DS doesn't help colors. Amy is paired with Big. Blaze with Silver Rouge with Knuckles And Cream with an all new chao she names Milk. As such do no 2 girls ever talk to each other.
The bechtel test says that it has to have two major characters who are female that have a conversation without a man being mentioned, npcs don't count as major characters
Love how this video points out the issues of the Bechdel test. Ask anyone if Amy is written better in Frontiers or Sonic Boom Shattered Crystal then which they think passes the test
The bechdel test isn't about quality, it's about broader trends.That approximately half the human population is female yet the vast majority of popular media can't pass this seemingly low bar is what the test is meant to point out (when used outside of the comic from which it originated, of course). An individual work can have amazingly written female characters and still fail the test, and a terribly written stereotypical mess can pass with flying colors.
48:19 They do actually talk in Final Horizons in frontiers. Sage and Amy have multiple conversations about things other then Sonic and Eggman in there optional side story conversations. so that would technically make Frontiers pass. also, I know you didn't talk about Classic games, but Superstars would be a game that passes too. Amy and Trip have an (implied) conversation between each other. Other then that great video though overall!
I was about to write something similar to this. I actually stumbled on one of them while I was playing the DLC back when it just released. Because it is somewhat recent, getting released on September of 2023, I'll just say that the conversation was about something that you probably didn't notice that much during the base game, but that still was a bit interesting to say the least
Implied conversation doesn't count, it needs to be actual text. This is why Forces with a female avatar should not count either, since the characters are just talking to a wall, even if there's an implication the avatar is meant to be replying.
I love this whiteboard set up with all the cute drawings. I followed you cause of Mongy Mondays and your appearance in those but I’ve been missing out on watching your videos
Watched this with my girlfriend while we ate dinner but stopped around the first Riders game as we realised how long the video was. We actually came back to finish the next day as she was super excited to see if Murder of Sonic passes as it's her favourite Sonic game I've introduced her to ("look at the art, look at the *font*, look at Shadow, it's perfect!"). You can imagine her reaction at the end. She also said "girly talks like she's from Twitter which I love because it's how my internal dialogue sounds". Thanks for being out here bridging the gaps between girlypop and Sonic; you might have a new fan haha.
The biggest problem with putting the bechdel test on sonic, is the characters are always talking to or about eggman and sonic or whatever big bad, and old amy is just an antithesis to the bechdal test
10:47 Why not bring up the in-level chatter? I just looked through all of Team Rose's levels, and found: • In Ocean Palace, Amy and Cream both talk about the giant turtles and the white ruins. Big _does_ chime in for both, but he comments on his own thoughts instead of actually responding to the others. • In Grand Metropolis, Amy talks about how tall the buildings are, and Cream replies that they make her dizzy. Again, Big comments on his own thing. • In Bullet Station, Amy and Cream talk about the cannon and how it works (Big doesn't comment at all this time). • In Frog Forest, they talk about the flying flowers they can ride (again, Big doesn't comment). • In Hang Castle, Cream and Amy have his exchange: Cream: "Amy, looks like we're stuck here!" Amy: "Don't worry, we'll be okay!" • Finally, an honorable mention in Final Fortress: Amy talks about how the weather reminds her of the last attack on the Egg Carrier, to which Cream asks if she's been in battle before. However, Amy says "our last attack", implying Sonic/Big, and Cream follows her question up with "You too, Mr. Big?!"
I was fucking losing it playing that game for the first time. they kept setting Big up to add something to the conversation and he would without fail just say something like “I wonder if froggy is here”
Team rose is great. They’re just a bunch of goofs in over their head taking on the world. Unless you take them being the easy mode as a canon explanation that actually they’re the most equipped and just don’t realize it.
@hi-ougidemonfang I think the best explanation is probably Team Sonic is showing off by doing tricks through most/all of the levels, Team Dark is legitimately pissed off at Eggman and trying to destroy as much of his property in each area as possible, and Team Chaotix have their missions. Team Rose is the only one focused purely on getting through everything to find their friends, so they spend the minimum amount of time on each level.
The bechdel test was created by Alison Bechdel , author of Dykes to Watch Out For. It was originally "a little lesbian joke in an alternative feminist newspaper", but kind of got picked up by outside media and is sorta used as a super low bar to pass. Nowadays it's not supposed to be a be all end all to weather or not a piece of media actively represents women well or a fast past to a feminist story, but is instead supposed to highlight the inequality of screen time and agency allotted to women in fiction. The MOMENT I saw the title I knew there were about to be a LOT of failed tests lmao.
IDK, I feel like this doesn't apply that well for a platforming series like Sonic because with a lot of games it's not that the woman get no dialogue, it's that nobody gets any dialogue because we are here to jump between platforms.
@Neonlight3934 each modern game has at least an hours worth of cuts ce especially with a detailed story and a good handful of them also have in-level dialog I don't think it's unfair
@reidtedsnoekross2645 But it is the Bechdel test, as in a school test. If your story can pass it, then you gain more points in feminsm and that's it.
Dude sonic boom shattered crystal was like, my thrid sonic game that I bought with my pocket money on launch. Caused some confusion when a classmate tried to talk about rise of lyric and I had shattered crystal but we both just called them the sonic boom game. I was a DS/3DS kid so I had lost world and generations, sadly no colour though.
1) awesome video, this is the first video I’ve seen of yours and you execute on the “does series y pass metric x” format really well with a lot of great energy. 2) your Amy voice is so fun, like fully embodying her vibe 3) your haircut is so cute!
As someone who really likes how they've handled amy lately as her own individual, I cannot understate how POOR her writing is in most of the 2000s as someone whose fav is her. Also thanku for the whiteboard izzi!! It helps a lot with someone with processing issues ❤
The Bechdel Test is very funny. Sonic Battle, the absolute abyss of Amy's characterization, is the first game to pass. Goes to show that the test isn’t exactly a reliable indicator.
It is also worth noting the two character have to be named characters to pass the test. A named character talking to a unnamed background character doesn't count as passing.
Dissapointed to learn you will not be drawing Vanilla. It's not related to me being a freak, it is because you have THE CUTEST WAY OF DRAWING SONIC ECHARACTERS EVER OH MY *GOSH* THEY'RE SO CUTE I WANT MOOOOOORE!!!!!!!!!!
Actually, in Sonic Heroes, Amy and Cream talk to each other several times at in-game conversations about the level features or enviroment, like A-"What a beatiful view" C-"We're not here for sightseeing Amy" or A-"This weather kind of reminds me to the egg-carrier" C-"You've been in battle before?". It's also right that even if Cream is talking specifically at Amy, Amy is speaking to both Big and Cream. Also i don't remember any example but i'm pretty sure that Sonic Unleashed has female NPC's on the cities that talk to each other.
@illford I don't know what you mean with "cojnt" but every NPC has its own name, its own history and, at the xbox 360 version, some NPC's also talk to other NPC's I think you're confusing Sonic Unleashed with another Game.
showing them bonding only goes so far. the point of the test is to measure dialogue. the author has to actually be able to write women , not just point at them and say look they’re friends. that’s why it has the no talking about a man requirement. it’s the content that matters too. this isn’t to say Superstars fails or anything, it’s just kinda disqualified on the basis of having no dialogue at all.
As someone who played and LOVES Rush Adventure, Blaze cannot *STAND* Marine for most of the game. It takes until the semifinal cutscene (the one before the final one) for Blaze to not be annoyed by her youthfulness Still love them tho. We need a Blaze & Marine game
Im realizing the whole reason I like the swordsmen in silver & purple with a thin sword characature is because of sonic and the black knight. Also hearing that theme triggered me like a sleeper agent and I remember that whole first level again where you destroy the dragons horn.
At 48:18 actually they do talk but i can only remember it in the optional dialog. They talk about the meaning of the simbol that apears in the sky and the structures were sage says its the ancients god or something. Loved the vid btw really fun ideia and am bouth suprised and not suprised at the results lol
I was surprised sonic heroes didn’t pass the bechdel test. I thought you would mention the in level dialogue where the characters just talk about where they are and what they are doing. I’m sure Amy talks to Cream about pretty casinopolis is, or talk about the little frogs in frog forest.
11:04 The first level 2 act of Heroes has a conversation where they don't mention Sonic, Amy talks about how beautiful the temple is and Cream tells her not to get distracted. 18:44 She does not interact with any characters
I guess Superstars wouldn’t count because while Amy and Trip interact there isn’t any spoken dialogue. It’s nice to have the comics. With them being able to focus more on dialogue and character interactions.
It's better as a tool for gathering stats about movies. Comparing how many movies come out that pass the Bechdel Test vs the Reverse Bechdel Test can give you an interesting picture of the zeitgeist. But for individual movies (and the test was originally targeted at movies) there are plenty of reasons why an explicitly a feminist movie can fail the test.
I just checked Colors DS, and it sadly fails the test Cream is only in Tropical Resort, Blaze in Sweet Mountain, Rouge in Starlight Carnival, and Amy in Aquarium Park. And yes, I S-Ranked every mission to make sure
If you play as Amy during final horizon, you can find Sage and there’s some dialogue between them. Sometimes they talk about sonic but our times they talk about the island and the ancients. So if you include final horizon… And go out of your way to explore the side dialogue… I think it would just barely pass the test
I clicked on this just because the topic sounded interesting, heard you say a word and went “IZZY FROM MONGY MONDAY???!!!!???” So at least RUclips’s finally recommended me something based on my prior views lol. 😂
3:25 i wish you mentioned the scene where Tikal appeared from the Master Emerald and met Sonic and friends in person and STILL didnt talk to Amy. Besides even if they did talk they would've talked about Sonic and Chaos's fight so it still wouldnt pass the test.
Interesting to see you talk about how Amy is written over the series as one of the biggest talking topics currently in the fandom is Amy & how she’s been written recently, with many finding her new portrayals as boring & out of character! Personally, I do feel more modern portrayals of Amy are lacking that spark & passion that Amy used to have. Although, I also think much of her 2000s Era writing was an exaggeration & the far extreme of her character. I feel there is a middle ground with Amy that can be met where she’s still obsessed with Sonic, while also showcasing her other passions & feelings that aren’t Sonic related (like in Sonic Adventure 1 & 2). The Murder of Sonic The Hedgehog & Evan Stanley’s run on IDW is a good balance of the two different versions of Amy, so hopefully we’ll see more of that!
Hey guys, just wanted to clarify something since I'm getting a lot of comments about it. In my intro script, I wrote that I was not including the classic or mobile games. It just didn't come out when I was listing what games I wasn't including during the recording (cute ADHD moment). That's on me! Sorry about that guys!
But yes, Dream Team would pass if it was included!
Technically, Dream Team is on Apple TV, which isn’t a mobile device.
I like your glasses 😊
And you and your content of course ☺️ 👍 got a new sub😌
I mean yeah the classic games barely have females and also they don’t talk
@riahlexington but who could forget our goat witchcart
So there are basically two categories for the games that pass:
1) The ones that pass on a one-off technicality
2) The ones that pass because Blaze
Blaze is so underrated, the best.
And or Rouge
I've always loved Blaze - this just reinforces it for me :)
How did I know before even watching further in that Blaze was going to lift the franchise for this test like Atlas holds the heavens?
In that line of thought, same with Cream. Sonic Rush was a jewel. I can see why so many fan devs are fixated on making variants of it, or things based on it.
Ahh sonic rush, the game that cut the female player character count in half
It's funny how this video is less "has these girls talk about something unrelated to men?" and more "has these girls EVER talked?".
And then if it was Amy, it does not get a pass. If it was anyone else, however, it gets a pass.
well that's not really a problem exclusive to the girls i think generations was the only time sonic has ever interact with team chaotix in the games
That's the funny thing with the Sonic games. Their fans want a space opera, in a game about a hedgehog going 2 fast 4 you.
@mslabo102Because all she ever talks about is Sonic or wanting to marry him, in the early games
@james656-k8e it’s either a “have these characters ever talked to anyone outside of Sonic” or “have these characters talked to anyone outside of their respective teams” and both the boys and girls can have this problem
Amy is the type of character the Bechdel Test was specifically designed to target.
It kinda feels like bullying 😅
I mean, her design is literally a sonic fangirl so yeah, she doesn't pass it
I remember this essay on Amy Rose she actually is a completely complex character yet still very young so of course she's going to mention her best friend and hero a lot
I think for a real analysis you'd have to look at how often ANY character talks about something other than sonic. The story of these games usually revolve entirely around him regardless of the gender of the character.
The bechdel test is supposed to be about "the men can talk about anything but the women are always focused on the men" if the first part isn't true then it doesn't really fit.
The bachdel test was created to show a bias in Hollywood productions and awards. When using a sample size like an entire year or decade's worth of films the test exposes a very obvious gap in the market not being made and recognized.
Using the test to focus on a single franchise, title or character in the title tells is what got the public to turn against the test entirely.
The fact that Sonic Battle, the game that writes Amy... like that..... is the first game to pass the test is giving my psychic damage.
Which just shows how flawed the Bechdel test is.
@requiem6465It s not supposed to be a test in a way you perceive it. It s not "This movie passed, therefore it has good female representation" It's a point made by Miss Bechdel to say : "Media doesn't represent women almost whatsoever, you need a prove? Name one movie that at least has two women in it, that speak to each other about anything but men" It's not a test exactly it's a example of the barest possible minimum that most stories don't achieve
Sonic Battle Amy is so painful
@requiem6465tbf it was made as a joke
@requiem6465 especially considering sa1 failed despite amy's entire story arc is being more independent and less reliant on sonic. i wouldnt call amy's story arc feminist but it is progressive in a way the the bechdel test failed to find.
You forgot about Hatsune Miku in Zero Gravity. She only talks to Jet and Storm, but still
@RWR785 Miku has become so much more relevant in recent months! (Thank you Fortnite!)
@gabrielsofta944 Wdym? She showed up and Storm was immediately all over her, begging for her to mercy kill him. It was pretty unforgettable. (joking
@Vivigreeny25 is this an internal dialouge? I can't see the end of the horizon.... HATSUNE MIKU???
@GhostlyPhantome yeah man I agre- IS THAT SOUNDWAVE???
She _did_ have them at gun point, so she should get bonus points for that, at least.
Oh, wait. Wrong game. My bad.
I want year of blaze so bad. Show me the sol dimension. Let me play as blaze. She’s so awesome. She has a whole super form. Top 1 sonic character ever
Prolly gonna be Silver so they can remake the 06 trio in Generations ngl
Yes!!! And I'm so tired of her being portrayed as Silver's sidekick, when we know she's the one running things!
I agree lol
You do see a bit in the IDW comics iirc but being there was unnecessary to the story whatsoever so it sucks lol
That would likely not be financially profitable.
Cool though.
Yesterday was Rush's 20 year birthday- how it wasn't the start of Flaming Year of Blaze, no idea.
Hey, at least the Sonic Boom SHOW passes the Bechdel test! Amy and Sticks talk quite a bit about things other than a man!
I feel a lot of the extended Sonic media has better luck passing the Bechdel test. Especially the various comics - though that’s probably because they don’t have the limitations that the games have that prevent their characters from interacting.
“just because im a meathead doesnt mean im not a feminist”
And then it fails the next breathe because the Bechdel test is SO FLAWED that even mentioning men in passing casues it to fail NO MATTER WHAT. Please really think about those poorly made parameters of the test.
One of my biggest gripes with sonics cast is how rarely the extended cast gets used, story wise and in gameplay.
Sonic and Shadow constantly get golden boy treatment while everyone else with the exception of Tails, Knuckles and Amy have very little to work with but at that’s been changing and we’re mostly past the “Sega gets rid of Sonic’s friends because the fandom whined about them” phase
@2bdaqueen268Well yeah. Of course they're treated as golden boys. That's kind of what the miracle the seven Chaos Emeralds bring about causes.
@doomsdayrabbit4398 I wasn’t talking about their super forms but whatever lol
@2bdaqueen268 i don't even think Somic should count since he's the main character he has to have story progression by default. Its not even like he actually changes as a person or anything tbh. Shadow is the only sonic character with real lore. He's the only one I feel you could write a book about
@illford I’d rather have stuff on the other characters though Shadow already has enough, I don’t care if he’s the only one with “real lore” I want the other characters to have the spotlight for once
I wonder how many games pass the "characters talk to someone other than sonic about something that isn't sonic" test.
In general, the Bechdel Test isn't actually very well suited to games like sonic. It was meant for movies and TV shows, and it's more useful as a tool for gathering stats.
I'd argue that'd be a more appropriate (and also more interesting) metric, especially for other games/franchises that are named after/revolve around series mascots like Sonic.
Yeah to be fair Sonic doesen't really have the focus too much on anything other than, well sonic or eggman, the test wasn't really made for games like that, but it was still interesting, i didn't find it as, depressing as she did that many of them failed but like, i kinda figured 😂 it has or atleast had a majority male audience at one sooo...
Unfortunately (or fortunately?) I think most of the games would pass pretty much immediately. Especially if Shadow or the Chaotix are in the game. Excluding Sonic Generations, most Sonic games with multiple characters usually have some sort of subplot that does not involve Sonic
"I wonder what happened to Sonic?"
-Miles 'is Tails' McPrower, 1998/1999
i'm still miffed that amy has NEVER been allowed to go super
DAMMIT LET MY GIRL BE A SUPER SAIYAN
She can in origins
She goes super in Sonic Origins, but then again, that game is questionably canon.
according to SEGA, only male hedgehogs get the yellow super form. Blaze only gets a super form due to a separate set of emeralds.
@lmaolol69420 oh yeah, and if there's one thing Sega is super strict on it's previous canon
Sega can't make all their characters go super because they don't have the rights to the Dragon Ball Z IP.
The fact that Amy and Rouge have barely interacted at all across all the games they’ve been in together is such a crime.
Give the girlies a chance, Sonic Team‼️
The characters are not very close to each other, or behave that similarly so I’m not surprised that they seem pretty separate from one another
Yeah even in the comics they barely interact with each other before the IDW era and that's more because all the war arc
I'm pretty sure they do NOT get along, at all.
I don't think they'd like each other. But that might actually make the dynamic more fun.
Well at least Rouge and Blaze interacted a lot in Murder of Sonic
Saw the title and already saw the failed pile of games in my mind 😭 SEGA GIVE US MORE OF OUR GIRLSSSS
It's really hard to do that in the games.
Saw the title and immediately said “oh this is not ending well for Sonic” LMFAO. Sega give your girls more
when girls are strong they are the highlight, at the very least (blaze and cream hard carried half of theese games tho lmaoaoaoa)
Nope sonic is good actually no thanks
@Mydo2000-h7q cringe, woman BLAST 🚶♀️🚶♀️🚶♀️🚶♀️🚶♀️🚶♀️🚶♀️🚶♀️🚶♀️🚶♀️🚶♀️🚶♀️🚶♀️🚶♀️🧍♀️🧍♀️🧍♀️🧍♀️🧍♀️🧍♀️🧍♀️🧎♀️🧎♀️🚶♀️👯♀️👯♀️👯♀️🚶♀️🚶♀️🏋♀️🏋♀️🧖♀️🧖♀️
@Mydo2000-h7q hate to break it to you buddy, but no franchise is perfect. especially one that came out in the 90's lol.
IDW
12:11 OK that was actually a pretty good impression of the Lisa Ortiz’s Amy
She voices amy in the jehtt vuds and even did one vid with Lisa ortiz😊
YES THATS WHAT I OPEMED COMMENTS TO SAY
Unfortunately, this video doesn't pass the Bechdel test. There's only one female character and she keeps talking to me about some male blue furry.
But she talks more about girls........
@steamboatwill3.367 But I'm not a girl, so it fails the test from the male POV
I can't believe this video was actually misogynistic this entire time 😂🙃 Eggman would not approve.
@steamboatwill3.367 talking about women isn't part of the Bechdel test. No second woman so it fails, regardless of anything else.
@lehashura490 I'll never forget how the Sonic Heroes manual specifically calls him a feminist. A bit random, since it never comes up in game, but good for him.
Amy and Sage talk about more than just men in the Final Horizon dlc, including that dialogue about rock jenga.
Omg idk how I forgot about the rock Jenga! Ty! I guess the base game doesn't count then, but DLC saved it fs haha
why do people keep calling horizons dlc when it isnt-
@dyslexicelf9380free update = downloadable content = dlc
@dyslexicelf9380 technically all updates are downloadable content, it's just free dlc not paid dlc
@dyslexicelf9380 Because it's free dlc.
I think this series makes the pros and cons of the Bechdel test easy to see.
For examples like the Sonic Rush games, it’s a great representation of what good inclusion can look like.
For examples like Sonic Generations and Forces, it shows that most of the time a game will focus around the main character. And if they’re male, it’s much more likely to fail the test.
It’s not always the case, but it’s why there’s variance.
The fact the main characters are males is one of the key point the bechdel test is able to demonstrate.
The point of the Bechdel test to begin with is is to point out the large scale problem of women’s representation in media, rather than critique individual artworks. You really see this with the Sonic series, where the women are too often treated as either ‘the only/token woman’ or entirely secondary to the male cast members
@elius1548It was also originally a joke
This is partly due to the fact that the bechdel test wasn’t really made to test misogyny, but whether a not a lesbian ship could theoretically exist in a piece of media lmao. It’s interesting to me that it now has the connotation it does, given its origins.
@dragvrallass1658i don't really think that works. There's lots of stories where the test dosen't work due to a narrative tecnicality that renders it kinda worthless.
Take Sonic Forces for example, _EVERY_ character there only talk about Sonic, not just the female ones. That game would pass if there was a female MC instead, but it dosen't really matter since there never was a representation issue in the first place.
IDW comics are really carrying female characters in Sonic... Amy, Cream, Vanilla, Blaze, Rouge, side characters like Wave... And of course the original characters, like Surge, Lanolin, Tangle, Jewel, and Whisper... like wow, the IDW comics are on a different level.
In comparison, Archie Sonic had a rough start, but eventually passed it, at earliest with maybe Stargazing?
And of course, the IDW comics receive a lot of hate for their portrayals OF these characters…
…I’M JUST SAYIN
Don’t forget Marine, who makes at least one appearance in the IDW comics and is well written for it
@DarkShadic9632
IDW is carrying because we get to see them more often,
People don't have a problem with the fact that they're there
They have a problem with the fact that they aren't as well written as in the games ( speaking obviously only for characters originating from the games)
Plus one of the absolute funniest moments in the comic is a conversation that passes the test.
It's Cream telling her mom about the adventure she's just been on, and Amy and Rouge both have these wonderful looks of "Oh god Vanilla's going to kill us"
Ironically enough, this video does not pass the Bechdel Test
36:38 - 37:16 The Wii/"Ultimate" version obviously fails due to having no girls, but Sonic Colors DS actually has a bunch of Sonic's friends on the different planet attractions to give you a bunch of side missions, including Amy, Blaze, Cream and Rouge. It's still a fail though, as none of the girls are on the same planet to talk to each other and all of them talk to Sonic in order to give the side missions.
Shattered Crystal only passing because the women were talking about SHOES is just 😩
Obviously, the test does a good job at getting its point across, but that's straight up a textbook example of its limits.
to be fair! they were talking about murdering the main antagonist and making shoes out of his skin, so. i consider that girlboss
The test is funny because it's such an incredibly low bar that passing the test means almost nothing on its own lol
We're begging for scraps and can't even get that
Technically the test says talking about boys OR gendered stereotypes, and shopping/looking for shoes is definitely a stereotype conversation topic. Murdering and skinning your enemies to make boots from their hides, however....
@neverland8974this sounds so fucking deranged out of context
@sideways5153 I think the test is interesting in the first place.
Swap the gender of a main character and the test is fun to find 2 guys in the same situation, because I've done it with my sister with shows we watched together and they tend to fail as well.
However sonic isn't even good at female characters in general and I think that's a pretty universal opinion?
27:32 Just so everyone knows, Ken Penders does NOT own Shade The Echidna, Sega does. Ken claimed on twitter once that he owns Shade simply because he believes she is a rip-off of Julie-Su, however, that is a lie. Ken legally does not have ownership of any of the characters or concepts introduced in Sonic Chronicles. Ken was simply acting smug, essentially saying "I can use Shade the Echidna as much as I want and Sega won't do a thing about it", but that doesn't give him legal ownership. Sega could absolutely use Shade the Echidna if they wanted to, they just don't do it because that would bring the attention of Ken Penders and Sega doesn't wanna have to deal with Ken anymore if they can avoid it.
Yeah and even if she WAS a rip off it wouldn’t mean he owns Shade. Just because you create a derivative work doesn’t mean the original copyright holder suddenly owns your work. Like if you create Sonic fan art, SEGA can’t suddenly use your art without permission just because it has Sonic in it.
But this is the same guy who thinks he can use Planet Mobius and Floating Island because SEGA doesn’t use them anymore and thinks putting a hat and goatee on Knuckles makes him a new character that he can sell books with.
50min of izzy yappin about sonic girls?? SIGN ME UP, TIME TO GET SNACKS
AAAA I hope you like it Mari 💖
Hey Mari, I like your art videos.
YOOOO YOU’RE HERE
Oh hello there
I originally read the title as sonic smash or pass and i nearly had a heart attack….
What, like straight up the games? Sounds kinda wack.
Though I do know in my heart of hearts that SA2 would sweep.
@guggelguggel7491🌝 SA2 will definitely
Is black knight a top or bottom
Im sure we'll get to that eventually
HOW THE FUCK 💀
I really love how alchemist drew the characters, they are so silly.
I think what we need to get these games to pass is to keep having Blaze in them.
Also Tangle, cuz she's lowkey my favorite female character in Sonic now.
I object on Heroes’ placement. I’m almost sure there’s some in-level dialogue between Amy and Cream that doesn’t have Big say anything.
Me too, I think she just went by the FMV cinematics, because we have at least:
Hang Castle:
*Amy:* Aaahh! What happened to the floor?
*Cream:* Actually Amy, the castle has returned back to normal.
Hang Castle:
*Cream:* Amy, it looks like we're stuck here.
*Amy:* Don't worry, we'll be OK.
-Final Fortress:-
*-Amy:-*- I can't believe he built that thing.. it's huge!-
*-Cream:-*- Maybe he doesn't like his neighbors much?-
*Edit:* This one doesn't pass the test since they're talking about Eggman.
(Still great video of course!)
Now that I think about it, maybe she erased the in-level banter from her memory, because of how grating it can be, especially when you get glitched by a stage repeatedly! 😁
yeah, I know in the story they're all focused on Sonic and Chocola, but in the levels they have plenty of dialogue about stage obstacles at least
The beginning of Team Rose
Cream: Amy, please be careful with our only clue
Amy: You're right, I'm sorry.
@MysticClaws100 That one is still about Sonic since the clue is Sonic running away with a chao and froggy.
funniest factoid about the bechdel test is that it was never put forth as an academically stringent tool for narrative analysis. It originated in an old queer zine where the joke basically was "can I headcanon this girl as lesbian".
That wasn’t the joke, read the actual comic I’m BEGGING YOU. The comic goes like this;
“Have you seen the insert new movie here?”
“No, I haven’t, I have this new rule that I can only watch movies that have two or more female characters talking about something other than a man. The last Movie I’ve seen was alien, it has two women who talk about how scared they are of the alien, so it passes.”
An entire panel of silence to let that sink in, as this comic came out in 1985, alien came out in 1979 six years before meaning no movie suited these BARE MINIMUM STANDARDS, in six fucking years.
The two then walk home, talking about watching alien. The joke, if there is any is that this is bare minimum and Hollywood hasn’t met it. One of the female characters calls it strict despite it being anything but.
Doesn’t excuse it, but this is definitely swayed by the fact that it's already rare to see ANY two characters talking about anything that's not Sonic
True, it is sort of an issue regardless of gender, lol
There is also the fact there are not a lot of female character compared to males
23:40 She also shows up later in the start of the Archie Reboot's era of Universe.
Congrats Blaze! You are a constant of Bechdel Test wins!
37:02 i was NOT ready for this
OK HOW DO U HAVE A PERFECT AMY IMPRESSION
She voices amy in Jehtt's videos
WAIT really???
@awesomeraf7851 And Charmy. And Maria. And Tails. And Omochao. And Shahra. But not Sage. Pretty sure she's the one character neither Izzibel or Jehtt voice act for in his videos. It's Hannah Chapin, if you were wondering
@solaris7672 she does??!
Sonic Battle being the first one to pass is DIRE considering how Amy is characterized in that game 😭
49:20 So Cream is too young for a mock murder mystery, but Phoenix Wright is perfectly fine with bringing six-year-old Pearl to an actual murder trial!
36:20 I love that women bringing other women down is what makes freeriders pass the Bechdel Test.
Some things of note
1. What about the NPC in Unleashed.
2. Amy and Cream appear in the DS version of Colors.
3. Roger first voiced Sonic in for a Sonic themed hotel room in Alton Towers and then started voicing him in the games with Free Riders.
I don’t think they count as featured characters
Colors DS doesn't help colors.
Amy is paired with Big.
Blaze with Silver
Rouge with Knuckles
And Cream with an all new chao she names Milk.
As such do no 2 girls ever talk to each other.
Unleashed's NPC only ever talked to Sonic (plus Amy interacted with Professor Pickle)
The bechtel test says that it has to have two major characters who are female that have a conversation without a man being mentioned, npcs don't count as major characters
I'd argue a game can't fail the bechdel test if it doesn't meet the requirements to participate in the bechdel test.
What requirements?
@NoshGilligan Being something woman want to enjoy.
Love how this video points out the issues of the Bechdel test. Ask anyone if Amy is written better in Frontiers or Sonic Boom Shattered Crystal then which they think passes the test
funny thing is frontiers does pass the test and the creator made a mistake in her analysis
The bechdel test isn't about quality, it's about broader trends.That approximately half the human population is female yet the vast majority of popular media can't pass this seemingly low bar is what the test is meant to point out (when used outside of the comic from which it originated, of course). An individual work can have amazingly written female characters and still fail the test, and a terribly written stereotypical mess can pass with flying colors.
48:19 They do actually talk in Final Horizons in frontiers. Sage and Amy have multiple conversations about things other then Sonic and Eggman in there optional side story conversations. so that would technically make Frontiers pass.
also, I know you didn't talk about Classic games, but Superstars would be a game that passes too. Amy and Trip have an (implied) conversation between each other.
Other then that great video though overall!
I was about to write something similar to this. I actually stumbled on one of them while I was playing the DLC back when it just released. Because it is somewhat recent, getting released on September of 2023, I'll just say that the conversation was about something that you probably didn't notice that much during the base game, but that still was a bit interesting to say the least
I don't think implied conversations pass, otherwise Generations would have passed for showing Blaze and Cream being reunited.
Implied conversation doesn't count, it needs to be actual text. This is why Forces with a female avatar should not count either, since the characters are just talking to a wall, even if there's an implication the avatar is meant to be replying.
I love this whiteboard set up with all the cute drawings. I followed you cause of Mongy Mondays and your appearance in those but I’ve been missing out on watching your videos
This is the kind of high quality academic discussion we need more of.
Watched this with my girlfriend while we ate dinner but stopped around the first Riders game as we realised how long the video was. We actually came back to finish the next day as she was super excited to see if Murder of Sonic passes as it's her favourite Sonic game I've introduced her to ("look at the art, look at the *font*, look at Shadow, it's perfect!"). You can imagine her reaction at the end. She also said "girly talks like she's from Twitter which I love because it's how my internal dialogue sounds". Thanks for being out here bridging the gaps between girlypop and Sonic; you might have a new fan haha.
The biggest problem with putting the bechdel test on sonic, is the characters are always talking to or about eggman and sonic or whatever big bad, and old amy is just an antithesis to the bechdal test
Sonic Superstars doesn't have any dialogue, but it passes in my eyes because of the interaction between Amy & Trip.
But it dosen't count.
10:47 Why not bring up the in-level chatter? I just looked through all of Team Rose's levels, and found:
• In Ocean Palace, Amy and Cream both talk about the giant turtles and the white ruins. Big _does_ chime in for both, but he comments on his own thoughts instead of actually responding to the others.
• In Grand Metropolis, Amy talks about how tall the buildings are, and Cream replies that they make her dizzy. Again, Big comments on his own thing.
• In Bullet Station, Amy and Cream talk about the cannon and how it works (Big doesn't comment at all this time).
• In Frog Forest, they talk about the flying flowers they can ride (again, Big doesn't comment).
• In Hang Castle, Cream and Amy have his exchange:
Cream: "Amy, looks like we're stuck here!"
Amy: "Don't worry, we'll be okay!"
• Finally, an honorable mention in Final Fortress: Amy talks about how the weather reminds her of the last attack on the Egg Carrier, to which Cream asks if she's been in battle before. However, Amy says "our last attack", implying Sonic/Big, and Cream follows her question up with "You too, Mr. Big?!"
I honestly forgot they talk to each other in game like that! In that case, yes, you're right and it would pass based off that
I was fucking losing it playing that game for the first time. they kept setting Big up to add something to the conversation and he would without fail just say something like “I wonder if froggy is here”
Team rose is great. They’re just a bunch of goofs in over their head taking on the world. Unless you take them being the easy mode as a canon explanation that actually they’re the most equipped and just don’t realize it.
@hi-ougidemonfang I think the best explanation is probably Team Sonic is showing off by doing tricks through most/all of the levels, Team Dark is legitimately pissed off at Eggman and trying to destroy as much of his property in each area as possible, and Team Chaotix have their missions. Team Rose is the only one focused purely on getting through everything to find their friends, so they spend the minimum amount of time on each level.
Yes however counterpoint I don't like Sonic heroes so it doesn't pass out of sheer spite.
I never knew about the featured character part. I went into this thinking sonic adventure would pass because you could talk to npcs as amy
6:27 HELPPPP
Mommy?
The bechdel test was created by Alison Bechdel , author of Dykes to Watch Out For. It was originally "a little lesbian joke in an alternative feminist newspaper", but kind of got picked up by outside media and is sorta used as a super low bar to pass. Nowadays it's not supposed to be a be all end all to weather or not a piece of media actively represents women well or a fast past to a feminist story, but is instead supposed to highlight the inequality of screen time and agency allotted to women in fiction. The MOMENT I saw the title I knew there were about to be a LOT of failed tests lmao.
IDK, I feel like this doesn't apply that well for a platforming series like Sonic because with a lot of games it's not that the woman get no dialogue, it's that nobody gets any dialogue because we are here to jump between platforms.
@Neonlight3934 each modern game has at least an hours worth of cuts ce especially with a detailed story and a good handful of them also have in-level dialog I don't think it's unfair
@reidtedsnoekross2645 that usually involve sonic or eggman
@ss3nm0dn4r8 which....is the problem. You see how that's the problem right
@reidtedsnoekross2645 But it is the Bechdel test, as in a school test. If your story can pass it, then you gain more points in feminsm and that's it.
Dude sonic boom shattered crystal was like, my thrid sonic game that I bought with my pocket money on launch. Caused some confusion when a classmate tried to talk about rise of lyric and I had shattered crystal but we both just called them the sonic boom game. I was a DS/3DS kid so I had lost world and generations, sadly no colour though.
1) awesome video, this is the first video I’ve seen of yours and you execute on the “does series y pass metric x” format really well with a lot of great energy.
2) your Amy voice is so fun, like fully embodying her vibe
3) your haircut is so cute!
As someone who really likes how they've handled amy lately as her own individual, I cannot understate how POOR her writing is in most of the 2000s as someone whose fav is her.
Also thanku for the whiteboard izzi!! It helps a lot with someone with processing issues ❤
AND MARIA... she's dead
Today, i learned that the best stories fail the test.
22:16 "SONIC... Y LOS ANILLOS SECRETOS" 🗣🗣🗣🔥🔥💯💯
That jumpscare defiinitely caught me off guard lol
i've watched this video 5 times and it still holds up!! I LIVE FOR THE IZZI YAP!! 😤😤😤😤😤😤
The Bechdel Test is very funny. Sonic Battle, the absolute abyss of Amy's characterization, is the first game to pass. Goes to show that the test isn’t exactly a reliable indicator.
It is also worth noting the two character have to be named characters to pass the test. A named character talking to a unnamed background character doesn't count as passing.
I still say the “torture” Sonic endured was just Eggman taking those mustache selfies Tails found on his computer, right in front of Sonic’s cell
I never heard of the Bechdel test before! Thank you for teaching me something new!
18:12 i knew chaos would erupt when Sonic 06 was mentioned.
12:21 Animatic Battle mentioned?!
Dissapointed to learn you will not be drawing Vanilla. It's not related to me being a freak, it is because you have THE CUTEST WAY OF DRAWING SONIC ECHARACTERS EVER OH MY *GOSH* THEY'RE SO CUTE I WANT MOOOOOORE!!!!!!!!!!
AAAHHHHHHH!!! NEW SET OF DRAWINGS YESSSSS!!!!!!!!
Actually, in Sonic Heroes, Amy and Cream talk to each other several times at in-game conversations about the level features or enviroment, like A-"What a beatiful view" C-"We're not here for sightseeing Amy" or A-"This weather kind of reminds me to the egg-carrier" C-"You've been in battle before?". It's also right that even if Cream is talking specifically at Amy, Amy is speaking to both Big and Cream.
Also i don't remember any example but i'm pretty sure that Sonic Unleashed has female NPC's on the cities that talk to each other.
Do the Unleashed NPCscojnt? I don't even think they have names
@illford I don't know what you mean with "cojnt" but every NPC has its own name, its own history and, at the xbox 360 version, some NPC's also talk to other NPC's
I think you're confusing Sonic Unleashed with another Game.
Short aside i LOVE the cute drawings on the board they're so
I feel like Superstars warranted an inclusion. Two female characters naturally bonding, even if no words were spoken, seems pretty significant to me.
yeah, but the test specifies that the two girls have to talk, so Superstars wouldn't pass.
But it dosen't count.
showing them bonding only goes so far. the point of the test is to measure dialogue. the author has to actually be able to write women , not just point at them and say look they’re friends. that’s why it has the no talking about a man requirement. it’s the content that matters too. this isn’t to say Superstars fails or anything, it’s just kinda disqualified on the basis of having no dialogue at all.
@jaybee27D but the game has NO DIALOGUE AT ALL... Yet another failing of the Bechdel test.
gotta drop where you got the sweater, shit is so gas
9:40 to be fair EVERYONE in that game talks about emerl
As someone who played and LOVES Rush Adventure, Blaze cannot *STAND* Marine for most of the game. It takes until the semifinal cutscene (the one before the final one) for Blaze to not be annoyed by her youthfulness
Still love them tho. We need a Blaze & Marine game
Sonic needs to apologize to women now
Have you ever just considered the bechdel test isn't objectively good?
@srizzyep1616have you ever considered not questioning authority
@theconsumerofpenguins81as persona 3 reload so nicely puts it, "disturbing the peace".
Nah let’s double down, no more girls in Sonic games. It’s a boys only club now. Sure that’ll lead to no problems in the future. :p.
@theconsumerofpenguins81 sounds boring
Percival speaks directly to merlina before she transforms
12:22 ANAMATIC BATTLE REF?
48:24 in the dlc you can talk to sage when playing as amy and i am pretty sure they have a convo about the island they are in
Im realizing the whole reason I like the swordsmen in silver & purple with a thin sword characature is because of sonic and the black knight. Also hearing that theme triggered me like a sleeper agent and I remember that whole first level again where you destroy the dragons horn.
Blaze’s back must hurt from carrying all the passing games.
Blaze is carrying this test on her back
12:21 Animatic battle reference
At 48:18 actually they do talk but i can only remember it in the optional dialog.
They talk about the meaning of the simbol that apears in the sky and the structures were sage says its the ancients god or something.
Loved the vid btw really fun ideia and am bouth suprised and not suprised at the results lol
Plsss tell me where I can find that sweater its amazing
I was surprised sonic heroes didn’t pass the bechdel test. I thought you would mention the in level dialogue where the characters just talk about where they are and what they are doing.
I’m sure Amy talks to Cream about pretty casinopolis is, or talk about the little frogs in frog forest.
11:04 The first level 2 act of Heroes has a conversation where they don't mention Sonic, Amy talks about how beautiful the temple is and Cream tells her not to get distracted.
18:44 She does not interact with any characters
Amy can talk with female npc:s in adventure 1
How dare you forget the most important female character in Sonic Adventure 2
The president's assistant
12:21 I DID NOT EXPECT AN OBJECT SHOW REFERENCE- I got exclamation mark jumpscared 😭😭😭😭😭
Her Amy impersonation is so good. Like, I can watch this on repeat just to hear her Amy impersonations all over again
I guess Superstars wouldn’t count because while Amy and Trip interact there isn’t any spoken dialogue.
It’s nice to have the comics. With them being able to focus more on dialogue and character interactions.
I love your little sketches on the board
12:21 ANIMATIC BATTLE JUMPSCARE?!
I think that the Bechdel test is more a writting tip than a writting rule.
It's better as a tool for gathering stats about movies. Comparing how many movies come out that pass the Bechdel Test vs the Reverse Bechdel Test can give you an interesting picture of the zeitgeist. But for individual movies (and the test was originally targeted at movies) there are plenty of reasons why an explicitly a feminist movie can fail the test.
I just checked Colors DS, and it sadly fails the test
Cream is only in Tropical Resort, Blaze in Sweet Mountain, Rouge in Starlight Carnival, and Amy in Aquarium Park.
And yes, I S-Ranked every mission to make sure
If you play as Amy during final horizon, you can find Sage and there’s some dialogue between them. Sometimes they talk about sonic but our times they talk about the island and the ancients.
So if you include final horizon… And go out of your way to explore the side dialogue… I think it would just barely pass the test
I clicked on this just because the topic sounded interesting, heard you say a word and went “IZZY FROM MONGY MONDAY???!!!!???” So at least RUclips’s finally recommended me something based on my prior views lol. 😂
45:58 the bg music just reminds me of the 3ds for no reason except that it was the main menu music on my brother's 3ds.
where did you get that way past cool sweater?! 👀
3:25 i wish you mentioned the scene where Tikal appeared from the Master Emerald and met Sonic and friends in person and STILL didnt talk to Amy. Besides even if they did talk they would've talked about Sonic and Chaos's fight so it still wouldnt pass the test.
Interesting to see you talk about how Amy is written over the series as one of the biggest talking topics currently in the fandom is Amy & how she’s been written recently, with many finding her new portrayals as boring & out of character!
Personally, I do feel more modern portrayals of Amy are lacking that spark & passion that Amy used to have. Although, I also think much of her 2000s Era writing was an exaggeration & the far extreme of her character.
I feel there is a middle ground with Amy that can be met where she’s still obsessed with Sonic, while also showcasing her other passions & feelings that aren’t Sonic related (like in Sonic Adventure 1 & 2). The Murder of Sonic The Hedgehog & Evan Stanley’s run on IDW is a good balance of the two different versions of Amy, so hopefully we’ll see more of that!
If sega was smart enough to find the middle ground between two extremes, they'd still be in the console business
I genuinely learned something from this video. Huh, very interesting.
12:20 bro animatic battle? in my sonic video? so real 🐐
also kickass sweater
40:37 this song is so nostalgic to me because it was my 3ds theme because I got it for free.
12:21 Bfdi Spotted