I think using Jazz theory worked pretty well on this one. I would still be extremely curious to hear how you would analyze some of these chords from a classical point of view: Classical theory gang, let me know your thoughts in the comments, I'm always eager to learn! :)
Thank you, most insightful analysis, and very helpful presentation. In classical harmony, the bII chord in bar 3 would be regarded as a Neapolitan chord with a flat 7th (Eb). The B is an appoggiatura, resolving to C (which belongs to the Neapolitan, and the chord where it is sounded, Fm). What is fascinating about this move is, the resolution is only sounded at the very end of the bar, so it is like coming up only briefly for air. I think this mechanism is an important part of the ebb and flow of this piece, and its character of sustained, almost suffocating tensions.
While I may not know a lot about other composers, I've noticed that this particular musician used some interesting chords in his music that were quite different for his time. I've come across chords like 13, 9, 11, 7, 7b5, and 7#5, as well as really clever chords inversions in his pieces. It's also worth mentioning that Debussy was a big admirer of Chopin, and since Debussy had a significant impact on jazz harmony, it's safe to say that Chopin played a big role in the development of jazz. And let's not forget about Chopin's unique and original use of rhythms, kind of like what you'd hear in jazz, as well as his distinctive phrasings and a lot more that makes his music truly stand out, and don't forget that this man was the first to properly use Polyrythms with western harmony.
there needs to be more youtube channels covering this side of piece learning. Everyone can eventually press the right keys, but this is what I think only a few can explain and only a few are interested. This is important to me, thank you.
Really enjoyed this, I'm going to play it more jazzy from now. You're right too, it's the notes that count, not whether we can identify the 'style'. I have thus theory that most composers just muck about and have fun with chords, but the ones that end up in their works have to stick to the so-called rules and expectations of their time. But there's a lot of jazz in Bach and Beethoven!
This piece is astonishing, and your analysis is very enlightening to me as a classical musican Since you ask for classical theorists' analysis, here's mine : The piece is not so complicated in terms of functions (for example, section A is just made of I, II and V chords). Instead, all the ambiguity and tension comes from the numerous suspensions in the left hand. The complexity comes from the fact that the suspensions are pretty uncommon. For example it's rare in classical music that a suspension resolves chromatically (for example, from D sharp to D flat at bar 3) This is how I analyse the piece, but other classical theorists may well have a different analysis Anyway thanks for sharing your analysis of this piece!
Thank you for your comment, it's very insightful! I'm happy that I can add this approach of viewing chords (suspensions and inversions, in a way even more grounded in the main tonality while Jazz harmony usually seems to take "detours" through temporary targets) to my repertoire :)
Great analysis! I used to go through and write chord symbols on copies of Chopin pieces, but that started feeling a little blasphemous. I appreciate that you included the melody notes in the chords, I feel like a lot of people don’t understand that melody and harmony are connected.
Thank you!! I like to think about (vertical) harmony as multiple (horizontal) voices stacked on top of each other. So in that way the main melody is "just another" one of these voices
I have been playing/attempting to play this great piece for years. I have tried to work out the chords but I can see from your video why I have not succeeded - I am not knowledgable enough. But you have helped me. Thanks!
Great job! Personally, I have a hard time hearing the second bar as a ii-V. It sounds to me more like it's playing around on the dominant -- a B7sus4 (with the root in the melody), resolving to a B7, then moving through a B7b5, Bm7b5, Bdim7b9(no root)(?)(lol!), to finally get to the E7. All with the that lovely chromatic b9 movement in the melody. But it also just feels like the harmony is more just about the chromatically descending movement of the voices (under the minimalist plaintive melody) than anything else.....
Ooh, that is a nice reading of those chords! The B would be a "top pedal" then and literally just the inner voices move chromatically as I in fact said in the video. I think I was looking a little too hard for chord functions at some places, hence also the ii - V in bar 2, which I agree is a bit of a stretch.
When you start getting into pieces with 9s and above, especially with inversions, there can be multiple interpretations and it seems clear that Chopin was deliberately doing that. So both views of that section (ii-V or dominant progression) look legitimate to me.
Insightful and entertaining analysis, Andy - thank you! I admire your bravery in tackling this Prelude's harmony(!), but I think you explain it very well. The piers/arches metaphor in particular is a helpful way of conceptualising it - very reminscient of Schenker graphs too, only far more pleasant to look at...As you rightly said in the video, the harmony is ambigious, and so we're bound to interpret things differently. That being said, I do have a couple of thoughts: - You acknowledge the frequent use of inversions and rootless chords in the piece, so I'm slightly surprised with your reading of b. 2. Despite the 'wrong' spelling, is this not just 2nd-inversion V with 4-3 suspension? We may be missing the B in the LH, but it is up there prominently in the RH. With this reading, beats three and four of b. 4 could be interpretated in exactly the same manner: A7 with 4-3 sus, which leads on very nicely from the preceding E7. - Speaking of that E7 in b. 4, I use that to interpret the chord on the 1st beat of b. 3. If we're approaching an E7 - or chord-V in a-minor - then this chord becomes a french-sixth in a-minor. - VERY interesting reading of the b. 9 chord. I simply can't hear it as a type of C-chord, but I could understand how you'd arrive here considering your jazz background. The problem with all this obviously is that the harmony never definitively unveils itself, and so we're left labelling chords in relation to ghost keys that don't exist. I'm convinced that this music passes 'over' several different keys, but never actually goes 'into' them. Well done again on this. I'll have to check out your other videos :)
Wow! Thank you for taking the time to watch the video and write this detailed comment, that really means a lot! I completely agree with the 2nd inv. V in b.2, now that you pointed it out. There is an obvious note that is missing in order to make it an F# minor chord, as I called it, and that is c#. Of course the fifth is not necessarily needed in a chord, but in this case this would actually be the defining note (and to be extra picky - as I wrote F# minor and not minor b5 - that even implies E Dorian, which is not correct). I think I started the analysis with a little bit of a preconceived notion that the chords are "jazzy", so at some points I maybe saw more Jazz harmony than there actually was. This is a good reminder to always be careful not to get lost in the own concept. Reading the other bits of analysis that you wrote makes me curious to learn more about classical theory! For example I read about the French, German and Italian sixth but don't exactly know how they "behave" yet. Finally, I think it is so interesting how different people can have slightly different ways of interpreting/analysing the same piece of music, so I will take that into account even more in my next analysis videos - presenting my own interpretation rather than "facts". Once again, thank you for your input, it is really helpful!
@@andynalysis Because of the enharmonic writing in bar 2, i personally think the chords are F#m7/b5 & F#o7 with a very long leading tone (B) in the melody resolving to C. In that case you can analyze it as a vii in the key of G, in which the prelude no.3 has ended. Of course you can also hear this as a B7 chord, but i can´t believe Chopin would have made such a beginners mistake to write a B7 chord in the key of em with an Eb. Some editors just write a D#, but Debussy didn´t change the Eb into a D# in his edition. Thanks for your upload!
@@pianistjustforfun Thank you for your comment - actually I didn't even consider taking the previous Prelude into account, that makes a lot of sense! Personally, I don't hear the C on beat 2 as a target but rather as an auxiliary note, from B to C, back to B. But this just further proves that there really doesn't seem to be one objectively correct analysis of this piece. I'm grateful for every new input and interpretation, actually the comments turn out to be even more fruitful than I anticipated. And that's some really interesting insight about the different editions, I wasn't aware of that
@@andynalysis Thanks for your response! The "Classical theory gang" 🙂probably would critisize your analysis of the diminished chords, because in written music, there is only one possible root. For example your Do7 (bar8) of course is a G#o7/D (vii in Am). But as a jazz musician i´m used to that simplification, too... (Another example in bar 16: it´s A#o7, no matter which bassnote)
I studied Jazz composition in the Netherlands at Maastricht Academy of Music. My theory teacher, Leon Lhoëst, taught us the Berkelee method, which is primarily the "language" I use in my videos, though sometimes blended with the systems I learned in the classical theory lessons that I also took at some point in my studies. I had quite a few teachers, inside and outside of conservatory, and they were all influential in their own way.
Wow another helpful analysis ! Thank you! I could spend hours studying your videos. I know that your topic is analysis but any advice for the left hand in this piece? I just can not achieve a nice sound.
Sorry for the late reply, seems like I missed this comment somehow! I am not an expert on that topic, but what I would suggest is working on "finger support" and balancing the volume in the left hand to bring out the top line (the highest voice of the left hand played with the thumb)
I would say identifying the chords has some value, but you can't analyze this piece by its chords because the chromatic movement and the choice of inversions require the analysis to be about more than just chords.
Okay. Great. But obviously the theory doesn't help U to understand the emotional side and how it should be played. 1 Bar, 8 chords and-U-play-each-and-eve-ry-one-the-same. Very German. Strict. But this is no march! Chopin wrote this knowing he will die soon at his young age... This is not a walk to the market on a sunny day. ;-) Sorry... when it comes to the Interpretation and how to play this masterpiece of simplicity this is beginners level here. Watch Seymore Bernstein teaching this piece. ;-)
You know, a really good advice I got from a teacher in a masterclass was: "With some people you just got to accept, they are not angry at you, they are just angry" ;)
![[#2024MAMA] ROSÉ (로제), Bruno Mars - APT. | Mnet 241122 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dgGqD28J6aQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I think using Jazz theory worked pretty well on this one. I would still be extremely curious to hear how you would analyze some of these chords from a classical point of view: Classical theory gang, let me know your thoughts in the comments, I'm always eager to learn! :)
Piękno muzyki Fryderyka Chopina to fenomen graniczący z cudem. Chopin to najpiękniejsza spuścizna dla ludzkości ❤️
Thank you, most insightful analysis, and very helpful presentation. In classical harmony, the bII chord in bar 3 would be regarded as a Neapolitan chord with a flat 7th (Eb). The B is an appoggiatura, resolving to C (which belongs to the Neapolitan, and the chord where it is sounded, Fm). What is fascinating about this move is, the resolution is only sounded at the very end of the bar, so it is like coming up only briefly for air. I think this mechanism is an important part of the ebb and flow of this piece, and its character of sustained, almost suffocating tensions.
While I may not know a lot about other composers, I've noticed that this particular musician used some interesting chords in his music that were quite different for his time. I've come across chords like 13, 9, 11, 7, 7b5, and 7#5, as well as really clever chords inversions in his pieces.
It's also worth mentioning that Debussy was a big admirer of Chopin, and since Debussy had a significant impact on jazz harmony, it's safe to say that Chopin played a big role in the development of jazz.
And let's not forget about Chopin's unique and original use of rhythms, kind of like what you'd hear in jazz, as well as his distinctive phrasings and a lot more that makes his music truly stand out, and don't forget that this man was the first to properly use Polyrythms with western harmony.
there needs to be more youtube channels covering this side of piece learning. Everyone can eventually press the right keys, but this is what I think only a few can explain and only a few are interested. This is important to me, thank you.
Thank you for your positive feedback! :)
Analysis helps so much when practicing a piece, I can highly recommend it
Really enjoyed this, I'm going to play it more jazzy from now. You're right too, it's the notes that count, not whether we can identify the 'style'. I have thus theory that most composers just muck about and have fun with chords, but the ones that end up in their works have to stick to the so-called rules and expectations of their time. But there's a lot of jazz in Bach and Beethoven!
Arcydzieło, rewelacja ! Chopinie, geniuszu ❤️
I think jazz analysis on classical pieces is very worthwhile, even if the composers probably didn't think about it in exactly those terms.
This piece is astonishing, and your analysis is very enlightening to me as a classical musican
Since you ask for classical theorists' analysis, here's mine :
The piece is not so complicated in terms of functions (for example, section A is just made of I, II and V chords). Instead, all the ambiguity and tension comes from the numerous suspensions in the left hand. The complexity comes from the fact that the suspensions are pretty uncommon. For example it's rare in classical music that a suspension resolves chromatically (for example, from D sharp to D flat at bar 3)
This is how I analyse the piece, but other classical theorists may well have a different analysis
Anyway thanks for sharing your analysis of this piece!
Thank you for your comment, it's very insightful! I'm happy that I can add this approach of viewing chords (suspensions and inversions, in a way even more grounded in the main tonality while Jazz harmony usually seems to take "detours" through temporary targets) to my repertoire :)
Sehr schön erklärt, einfach und übersichtlich. Da kommt man gut mit. Danke Dir.
Great analysis! I used to go through and write chord symbols on copies of Chopin pieces, but that started feeling a little blasphemous. I appreciate that you included the melody notes in the chords, I feel like a lot of people don’t understand that melody and harmony are connected.
Thank you!!
I like to think about (vertical) harmony as multiple (horizontal) voices stacked on top of each other. So in that way the main melody is "just another" one of these voices
Brilliant, thanks.
Very enlightening and instructive. Thank you!
I have been playing/attempting to play this great piece for years. I have tried to work out the chords but I can see from your video why I have not succeeded - I am not knowledgable enough. But you have helped me. Thanks!
I'm really happy to hear that my analysis helped you!
Excellent analysis! It really helped me understand this piece!
Thank you for this upload.
Very enlightening! 👏
Interesting insight! Thanx!
Great analysis!!
Great job! Personally, I have a hard time hearing the second bar as a ii-V. It sounds to me more like it's playing around on the dominant -- a B7sus4 (with the root in the melody), resolving to a B7, then moving through a B7b5, Bm7b5, Bdim7b9(no root)(?)(lol!), to finally get to the E7. All with the that lovely chromatic b9 movement in the melody. But it also just feels like the harmony is more just about the chromatically descending movement of the voices (under the minimalist plaintive melody) than anything else.....
Ooh, that is a nice reading of those chords! The B would be a "top pedal" then and literally just the inner voices move chromatically as I in fact said in the video. I think I was looking a little too hard for chord functions at some places, hence also the ii - V in bar 2, which I agree is a bit of a stretch.
When you start getting into pieces with 9s and above, especially with inversions, there can be multiple interpretations and it seems clear that Chopin was deliberately doing that. So both views of that section (ii-V or dominant progression) look legitimate to me.
Brilliant analysis!!! Thank you for sharing.
Thank you for the kind words, means a lot! :)
Insightful and entertaining analysis, Andy - thank you! I admire your bravery in tackling this Prelude's harmony(!), but I think you explain it very well. The piers/arches metaphor in particular is a helpful way of conceptualising it - very reminscient of Schenker graphs too, only far more pleasant to look at...As you rightly said in the video, the harmony is ambigious, and so we're bound to interpret things differently. That being said, I do have a couple of thoughts:
- You acknowledge the frequent use of inversions and rootless chords in the piece, so I'm slightly surprised with your reading of b. 2. Despite the 'wrong' spelling, is this not just 2nd-inversion V with 4-3 suspension? We may be missing the B in the LH, but it is up there prominently in the RH. With this reading, beats three and four of b. 4 could be interpretated in exactly the same manner: A7 with 4-3 sus, which leads on very nicely from the preceding E7.
- Speaking of that E7 in b. 4, I use that to interpret the chord on the 1st beat of b. 3. If we're approaching an E7 - or chord-V in a-minor - then this chord becomes a french-sixth in a-minor.
- VERY interesting reading of the b. 9 chord. I simply can't hear it as a type of C-chord, but I could understand how you'd arrive here considering your jazz background.
The problem with all this obviously is that the harmony never definitively unveils itself, and so we're left labelling chords in relation to ghost keys that don't exist. I'm convinced that this music passes 'over' several different keys, but never actually goes 'into' them.
Well done again on this. I'll have to check out your other videos :)
Wow! Thank you for taking the time to watch the video and write this detailed comment, that really means a lot!
I completely agree with the 2nd inv. V in b.2, now that you pointed it out. There is an obvious note that is missing in order to make it an F# minor chord, as I called it, and that is c#. Of course the fifth is not necessarily needed in a chord, but in this case this would actually be the defining note (and to be extra picky - as I wrote F# minor and not minor b5 - that even implies E Dorian, which is not correct). I think I started the analysis with a little bit of a preconceived notion that the chords are "jazzy", so at some points I maybe saw more Jazz harmony than there actually was. This is a good reminder to always be careful not to get lost in the own concept.
Reading the other bits of analysis that you wrote makes me curious to learn more about classical theory! For example I read about the French, German and Italian sixth but don't exactly know how they "behave" yet.
Finally, I think it is so interesting how different people can have slightly different ways of interpreting/analysing the same piece of music, so I will take that into account even more in my next analysis videos - presenting my own interpretation rather than "facts".
Once again, thank you for your input, it is really helpful!
@@andynalysis You're welcome, mate. Keep up the good work and thanks for reaching out in the first place! :)
@@andynalysis Because of the enharmonic writing in bar 2, i personally think the chords are F#m7/b5 & F#o7 with a very long leading tone (B) in the melody resolving to C. In that case you can analyze it as a vii in the key of G, in which the prelude no.3 has ended. Of course you can also hear this as a B7 chord, but i can´t believe Chopin would have made such a beginners mistake to write a B7 chord in the key of em with an Eb. Some editors just write a D#, but Debussy didn´t change the Eb into a D# in his edition. Thanks for your upload!
@@pianistjustforfun Thank you for your comment - actually I didn't even consider taking the previous Prelude into account, that makes a lot of sense! Personally, I don't hear the C on beat 2 as a target but rather as an auxiliary note, from B to C, back to B. But this just further proves that there really doesn't seem to be one objectively correct analysis of this piece. I'm grateful for every new input and interpretation, actually the comments turn out to be even more fruitful than I anticipated. And that's some really interesting insight about the different editions, I wasn't aware of that
@@andynalysis Thanks for your response! The "Classical theory gang" 🙂probably would critisize your analysis of the diminished chords, because in written music, there is only one possible root. For example your Do7 (bar8) of course is a G#o7/D (vii in Am). But as a jazz musician i´m used to that simplification, too... (Another example in bar 16: it´s A#o7, no matter which bassnote)
Sehr gut.
Great work !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you!!
Hi Andy,
I just came across your channel. Very interesting analysis. What is your background. Who were your most influential teachers?
I studied Jazz composition in the Netherlands at Maastricht Academy of Music. My theory teacher, Leon Lhoëst, taught us the Berkelee method, which is primarily the "language" I use in my videos, though sometimes blended with the systems I learned in the classical theory lessons that I also took at some point in my studies.
I had quite a few teachers, inside and outside of conservatory, and they were all influential in their own way.
Wow another helpful analysis ! Thank you! I could spend hours studying your videos.
I know that your topic is analysis but any advice for the left hand in this piece? I just can not achieve a nice sound.
Sorry for the late reply, seems like I missed this comment somehow!
I am not an expert on that topic, but what I would suggest is working on "finger support" and balancing the volume in the left hand to bring out the top line (the highest voice of the left hand played with the thumb)
I would say identifying the chords has some value, but you can't analyze this piece by its chords because the chromatic movement and the choice of inversions require the analysis to be about more than just chords.
Your explanation is too complicated as much as the sheet. If somebody is able to understand it it means that he doesn’t need any tutorial.
Okay. Great.
But obviously the theory doesn't help U to understand the emotional side and how it should be played.
1 Bar, 8 chords
and-U-play-each-and-eve-ry-one-the-same.
Very German. Strict. But this is no march!
Chopin wrote this knowing he will die soon at his young age... This is not a walk to the market on a sunny day. ;-)
Sorry... when it comes to the Interpretation and how to play this masterpiece of simplicity this is beginners level here.
Watch Seymore Bernstein teaching this piece. ;-)
You know, a really good advice I got from a teacher in a masterclass was: "With some people you just got to accept, they are not angry at you, they are just angry" ;)