The Story of Atlantis, Part III: The Minoan Hypothesis
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- Опубликовано: 5 авг 2020
- Did a prehistoric eruption inspire Plato’s Atlantis Story? As it turns out, no.
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Elephants existed on Crete and many other Aegean islands, until as recently as 4000 BC:
"Tilos island the new species name Palaeoloxodon tiliensis has been assigned to the Tilos dwarf elephants. It was the latest paleoloxodontine to survive in Europe. They did not become extinct until around 4000 BC, so this elephant survived well into the Holocene. An exhibition is available at the Municipality of Tilos Island, soon to be transferred to the new building near Charkadio Cave."
Edit: Just to clarify you're likely correct and Atlantis is a fabrication of Plato, however, the elephants or stories of elephants in the Aegean as mentioned by Plato may have some truth to them. Certainly to Bronze age civilizations, like egypt who would've encountered them on the islands of the Aegean.
Elephant skulls on Crete are the basis for the Cyclops; The nosehole looks like an eyehole, kinda
4000 BC is very pre historic egypt though or? Would they already have contact with Minoans or the region? Not trying to start a comment fight just saying.
Sicily had pygmy elephants
Lol, sure. YOUR BRAIN has pygmy elephants.
@@MassimoAngotzi I wish MY brain had pygmy elephants.
I can appreciate that there are no records, but man is it hard to believe that the explosion of Thera wasn't more commonly known in Plato's period, especially considering its potential impact on events in Egypt and the Levant.
Maybe they were just wiped out that badly. The bronze age collapse threw the world back into the stone age. Medieval Europe rediscovered ancient Greek/Roman wisdom for instance. What if everything was destroyed though.
It’s likely Plato drew inspiration from a number of events and legends to write Atlantis. Nothing written is ever truly self-inspired. Tolkien insisted his stories are not allegorical and yet there are plenty of connections to Norse, Celtic, biblical lore and even WW1. Stories reflect the mind of the author
Nuemenor as atlantis. Really clear parallels, 1 was a continent, 2 sank beneath the waves, 3 collapse as a result of corruption, 4 had ruled a large empire.
You should check out the Richat Structure....
Tolkien saying his stories aren't allegorical is correct. Allegory would imply that pieces of his story are stand-ins for things he intends to speak about- which is not what he did. He _was_ explicitly inspired by Anglo-Saxon and Nordic legends, but he intended to do as the best of them do, and say something with a story, not an allegory.
I wonder if stories of the Sea peoples might've inspired part of the story, after all, I *think* the timing is close according to the priest's story.
"Sea peoples"- you mean pirates, which have pretty much always existed? Or are you one of those people who thinks that they were some sort of ethnicity lmao
@@boozecruiser He's referring to these sea peoples: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Peoples
@@boozecruiser wow, rude AND ignorant. Who would have guessed
atlantis is supposed to a civilization that was ancient to the bronze age people and not present at the time of the bronze age collapse. it's probably the younger dryas event
You mentioned Helice: good!
If, however, the Egyptian connection has any basis, elements of the Minoan collapse may perhaps have crept into the story: Egypt did have trade connections with Crete...
There is written evidence in Egyptian archives of a terrible darkness and destructive waves after the explosion of Thera. Some scholars believe that the Exodus, with its god sent scourges occured at this time.
@@flywheel9759 "Some scholars"... Sounds like something you would hear on Ancien Aliens....
@@kamikazes03 Actually it was the Greek archaeologist who first excavated Santorini in his popular account of his work, written in the 1960's. Used for a research paper in high school.
@@brianmccarthy5557 Better than that, I visited Akrotiri myself. The archaeologist, S. Marinatos, died and was buried on the site itself.
The problem with this is that certai. Details of the story contradict each other. For the time period listed, Egypt did not have trade connections with anyone really. The people living on the Greek/Cretan isles also did not live there 12,000 years ago. Egypt does have some records of people in the med during the Bronze Age, but we know lots about these people, and they don’t fit the description given by Plato.
The fact that the Egyptians make no mention of Atlantis despite trading with just about everyone is what really debunks it for me
I didn't comment on the previous two videos because I wanted to hurry to the next one. Great mini-series!
If Plato could only know how many working hours, or even working lives, have been spent trying to find his parable he'd surely sigh and shake his head and revise his opinion of the human race downwards a notch or three - especially for the claims that it was located in the theorist's own country ... uncanny, that.
There's been equally fruitless searched for Lemuria, and/or Mu [I don't know if those are supposed to the same place]. Everyone working to "prove" their own agenda.
According to a documentary I have, the Minoan's main city was built on an island in a lake - aka the lava dome of a long-quiet volcano with a crater lake. When it did go up, they can't have known much about it, being at the very centre of it. But outposts on other islands survived, at least weren't wiped out immediately by the event or the following tsunami.
Everybody is dreaming of becoming the next Heinrich Schliemann!!!!
@@kamikazes03 - lol and look the damage he did, destroying irreplaceable data from later levels, to find "his" Troy!
But at the time of his life, he had his "I was right,. you were wrong" moment!
@@kamikazes03 lol yes, he had his moment in the spotlight.
@Just think I am aware of the Younger Dryas event. Do you think the YDE is the answer to every historical mystery there is, really????
The Minoans on Santorini are probably the only chance Plato's tale has any basis in history with minor disasters within living memory of his fellow Greeks giving it shape. Otherwise all we have is Plato's probably allegorical tale, and hokey stuff skilfully stitched together by Ignatius Donnelly in the late nineteenth century.
I think it is a combination of various old legends and Plato's allegory. I think there is a good case to link it with South West Iberia, which would fit with the idea of it being beyond the Pillars of Hercules.
No. Santorini is absolutely NOT the location of the sunken city of Atlantis. But Atlantis was real.
@@AAONMS1 that's an unsupported assertion.
@@AAONMS1 Why- and how do you know it’s real? You’ve said it twice so far. More details, please.
@@AAONMS1
Obviously not it was Mt Atlas of the island of Atlantis
Pretty sure elephants lived on Crete since you know, their remains have been found.
I really wish you do a followup video about Doggerland as it was a real place that existed between today's Netherlands and Great Britain and in the timeline of the Atlantis mentioned by Plato it actually did disappear into the sea - albeit slowly. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doggerland
These are some brilliant videos, Garrett. Got an eye on your book as well. Consider yourself subscribed!
Impressing stuff honestly, I woul've loved for you to go over a few other myths/beliefs like the richat structure, the mentions of the myths in other cultures too.
Part IV
Hello,
I am in the middle of a school subject about Atlantis and really enjoyed and learned from your 3 videos, I was only wondering if you could share your sources as a youtube video isn't citable in the case of my project.
Thanks
CL
Dear Christophe,
I'm very glad that you enjoyed my videos. As discussed in the first video, the story of Atlantis has its origins in two of Plato's dialogues: the Timaeus and the Critias. You can cite any printed edition of these dialogues. On the search for Atlantis and the debates over its reality, the best surveys are:
Steve P. Kershaw, The Search for Atlantis (New York, 2018)
Edwin S. Ramage (ed.), Atlantis: Fact or Fiction? (Bloomington, 1978)
Hope this helps.
@Julia Gali You're very welcome
@@toldinstone Another book that may be interesting: Imagining Atlantis (I forget the author's name). It also goes into the various riffs on the Atlantis myth in pop culture.
@Just think ample evidence two parables does not make. The number of people bandwaggoning for a geological formation that doesn’t fit the description that only one person has been to in the last 60 years is astounding. It is fine to think there is truth to the story, but stop trying to force it on people.
@@seankrake4776 Thank you. I don't know anything about a Richat structure or a Dryas event, Younger or Older, but I know a broken record when I hear one, and this Just think cat is wearing thin.
Fascinating stuff indeed. There often is a grain of truth running through most stories. Personally I favour the Thira theory as plausible. It clearly was an enormous catastrophic eruption of global impact which would have affected much of the Mediterranean. Stories of this terrible event would have been carried through following generations retold and reinterpreted. Atlantis? Maybe!
@@ddpp1420 : It maybe wouldn't have been in Greece, but certainly the eastern Mediterranean. By all indications they were not well informed of anything west of e.g. Sicily & Sardinia.
I’m watching this in my room in Santorini right now haha very accurate description of tourists.
GREAT WORK
Yer shattering my dreams but I like 👍 your vids so I've subscribed
Read about this in a late 1970’s national geographic book on history. Saying that the dates were off by a factor of 10 because of a misinterpretation of a number.
Once corrected, It also ties this eruption with coinciding with the Exodus. (The physical eruption being seen as a pillar of smoke during day, and seen glowing like fire at night) like most volcanic eruptions are.
The plages were explained as common after effects resulting from eruptions/tsunamis.
Wish I still had the book. Perhaps someone could hunt book and article better than I could. It was a large coffee table sort of book that had a paper cover with photo of erupting volcano at night. Etna I think.
Closing in on 100K !!
Well it's actually wrong to say he invented Atlantis without Plato himself saying that. It is a possibility, but not fact.
It is quite literally a logical fallacy to disprove a negative.
What are you're thoughts on Atalntean Gardens ?
Actually, Crete did use to have elephants. Dwarf elephants, sure, but they had elephants.
Short and sweet. 👍
While it seems really unlikely that Plato would have ever been aware of it, I think it is interesting how Doggerland actually did sit in the Atlantic, and sink under the sea.
Doggerland didn’t sink, the sea rose.
@@baneofbanes What, pedantic much? I doubt the people at the time noticed the difference, nor do I. It still sank beneath the waves, regardless of which one moved.
@@PtolemyJones Yah I am. Jesus Christ dude it’s a fucking RUclips comment, calm the fuck down.
The people who write Star Trek never explicitly state that it is fiction in the preface of a movie, series, or book. In fact, they try to make it look as "plausible" as possible, for the entertainment of their audience, even though we know it is science fiction. Maybe, thousands of years from now, when the nuance of the moment is lost, folks will wonder if some ancient civilization (from their perspective) had a utopian post scarcity civilization, FTL travel and communication, aliens, matter teleportation, and an interplanetary federation.
All that matters is this: John Carpenter directed The Thing. He can never have imagined how many would become obsessed with his film.
Atlantis shows up in Jules Verne's, 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, published in 1870 before, I guess, Atlantis got very popular. The story in the appendices of The Lord of the Rings of the ill-fated Numenor is reminiscent of the Atlantis story. An advanced civilization that eventually displeased the gods was destroyed and sunk beneath the waves.
So I’m heart broken Plato made Atlantis up. I always thought it was inspired by Crete and Santorini. I remember reading somewhere, someone named Solon traveled to Egypt and was told about Crete and Santorini, Solon goes back to Greece tells Plato the story. And Plato changes some parts and creates the legend of Atlantis. Also other reason the story changed was because Solon spoke Greek and didn’t speak Egyptian, so maybe somethings were lost in translation. Not trying to argue, just want clarification.
That's the story that Plato tells. Unfortunately, it seems to be more or less completely fabricated. Check out "The Story of Atlantis, Part I" for more detail.
@@toldinstone I watch all 3 parts. I just waited till I watch all 3 parts of your videos to respond. I’m slowly but surly watching all your videos.! I love ancient Roman and Greek culture!!!!
@@Mulambdaline1 Very glad to hear it!
@@toldinstone so what I read about Solon, was it wrong?
@@Mulambdaline1 Solon may have gone to Egypt, but everything else in Plato's account is probably invented. As I say in the "Part I" video, Plato created Atlantis as a political allegory. There's no reason to think that Solon was actually shown anything by the Egyptian priests.
The great Civ the was wiped from Crete by Thera that we now call the Minoans was responsible for many Greek stories and myths, atlantis being one of them
this channel is spot on as usual
the spookiness is how many lands really did go under. Even egypt has lost shores. I hope la palma does not gain a water dome of pressure... oh boy.
can u make a video on sparta
I plan to make one this summer. Stay tuned...
There was an Egyptian record of some apocalyptic event causing many to die and the sky to blacken. It's from about the same time as a Chinese crop failure and thought to be related to the Minoan eruption
Why i cannot find this video on your channel?
It should be in the "Ancient Mysteries and Beliefs" playlist
@@toldinstone oh okay it is
It's perhaps paradoxically that we as a civilization get more and more scientifically advanced, the bulk of our populace gets dumber and more gullible. I'm fascinated with ancient world but see no reason to think Atlantis was ever more than a story invented by Plate. Great video series!
Yeah it does seem to be the case. It feels to me to be derived from a sense of insecurity and wanting to prove oneself. It costs someone little to nothing to believe a fairytale all while it makes them feel superior or possessing the “hidden truth” that insecure scientists and leaders “don’t want us to know”. It works for nearly every conspiracy.
While there is no surviving account of the Thera eruption there is the myth of Typho, a truly terrifying god who comes out of the depths of Tartarus, deep in the bowels of the earth, rises and wreaks havoc. Indeed, he almost kills Zeus and drives Poseidon into retreat. Then, after prolonged rampage he returns to Tartarus leaving only smoke and a quaking earth behind him. Recovery takes some time. It's possible this is a recounting of the eruption that survived the Dark Age.
Also, the post eruption remains of the Minoans on Crete are largely repair work and fit with the picture of surviving refugees struggling to survive. The date keeps shifting around and is still hotly debated. You quote a date on the very early side of the time window. There is far from an established consensus on that window. I agree that Plato was writing an allegory and not intending, any more than Johnathan Swift, to write an historical account. That doesn't mean he wasn't using historical Egyptian accounts, which we don't have at this time and perhaps never will, as inspiration for this along with other more contemporary events.
Appropriately the entire sequence of events which precipitated the Bronze Age Collapse are murky and the dating is very shaky. There are lots of experts whose conclusions are based on limited evidence but who compensate for that by the vehemence of their assertions. Also religious and political passions are involved as it seems entirely possible that the events recounted in Exodus are contemporary to this period.
Some theorists get really crazy. I found a video of someone trying to explain that the Richat Structure in Mauritania is the remains of the described ringed city of Atlantis.
If it truly was the remains of Atlantis though, that'd be one huge city. It'd be the same size as Tokyo, the largest city on Earth today.
Yeh that theory is so dumb. I believe the "myth" comes from truth, but certainly not the Richat. People just like the look of the pretty circles and its connection to Egypt, regardless of the impossibility of the rest of it.But yeh,certain RUclipsrs have made a lot of money based of it, and still continue to push such waffle.
Makes sense.Most myths stem from more than a grain of truth.
As strange as it sounds, Casey wasn't the only "psudo ancient" source of supposed "crystal energy". A more reliable source is Al Masudi in the Medows Of Gold talks of the temple of the Seven Planets at Sogmartar, Eski. A temple dedicated to the Moon God Sin, it had a crystal upon a tower there. There is a description of its illuminating properties in Masudi's discourse on the temples in this area
If you go with David Rohl, then the Greek Dark Age after the Sea People’s invasions largely disappears, so the story would almost be within living memory for Plato.
Very well done and very entertaining series on Atlantis! Yes Santorini was one of my favorites as a culprit. Ah well!
Dont discount santorini just because someone born 3000yrs later says so. Thats essentially proven as far as is possible by far too much evidence. There WAS a civilisation there, it was destroyed, it did fit several parts of platos description perfectly, the greeks dont mention that elsewhere, and would have. THEY DID, its the story of atlantis..
There's a lost Plato dialogue somewhere that's just him saying "It was a prank! Atlantis was just a prank, bro!"
The minoans are the survivors/refugees of atlantis after it sank. They then mixed with greeks and possibly even middle eastern people and gave birth to the portuguese civilisation.
the topic of atlantis or to the egyptians known as the land of the primeval ones, was a story from Solon. Solon was 200-300 years before Plato. links to the destruction of atlantis being possible due to the Younger Dryes impact theory could have made it possible that such a civilization existed.
I've never read Plato's description of Atlantis, but I've understood that it described Atlantis as having a harbor encircled by three circular canals or something similar. I also understood that on Santorini there has been an excavation that showed a harbor with three circular canals. Is any of this true? If these are both true, that seems an eerie coincidence to me.
What do you think about Mauritania?
the definition of the word "pillar" is misunderstood. Pillar in Greek also means "Labors", or task/trials. When we look at a map most of the "Labors of Hercules" took place on Peloponnesian Peninsula. The island which was known for dealing in obsidian, that was also an ally of Sparta, is Milos
Nope! The Greeks called the rock of Gibraltar the Pillar of Hercules. They did not call Hercules’ labors his pillars…psychotic delusion!
@@arzhvr9259
Nope, you don’t know what you are talking about
And stop with the language
If there was no current or recently occurring inspiration for Plato to write about Atlantis, then I wonder if Doggerland is the indirect inspiration.
In the year 2021 CE we have stories of Gilgamesh, Troy, and others dating from 1,000 BCE to 3,000 BCE thanks to preserved writing. In the year 6,000 BCE there was protowriting, such as the Vinča symbols, in Europe which demonstrates there was a potential to record simple concepts, though it's highly unlikely a series of symbols conveyed societal collapse of a successful culture.
However, indigenous Australians have an oral tradition that likely draws from on volcanic eruptions that occurred 37,000 years ago. There's also the exceedingly common flood myth that's likely cultural memories from rising sea levels as the ice age ended.
I wager with Doggerland having been abandoned around the same time as being struck by a catastrophic tsunami, with Lake Agassiz then bursting in North America and fully submerging the land around 6,200 BCE qualifies as a good example of a previously fruitful land and likely successful culture being absolutely devastated and removed from the map.
A few thousand years could certainly take the truth and twist it into something much more exciting, as we see with this discussion now.
Hypothesis:
The ancestral home of Athenian statesman Solon was the island of Salamis (pronounce as proto/ancient Greek with that regions dialect at the time). As Solon visited Egypt he asked the high priest if he knew about his home island. The phonetics of Salamis and Atlantis is similar, and thus the high priest may have misheard it, or it was later transcribed with this phonetic error. The priest began to tell him about events from 11600 BC, at that time 9000 years ago. I am not clear if the priest told him about a city called Atlantis that was reached by going into the Atlantic ocean and then up the rivers through Atlantea in Africa (Mauretania) or describing ancient events of the region around Salamis and Egina (Which could match the description 9000 years before Solon including elephants). Now study the cave Euripides Pigeons @ Salamis, notice the colors of the rocks.
replace 'hypothesis' with "wild speculation" and you'll be right on the money
@@Norralin hahahaha! 😍
Who said it was, and why does it have to be an "eruption" event?
The idea of the city being built in concentric circles is very curious, but it might represent a distorted folk memory of a settlement built on a flooded crater/caldera complex.
Also a problem with the atlantis myth that it dies not appear in greek mythology. Plato is the only one that describes about an island. Not hesoid or homer or ovid etc. Plato was a philosopher too not a guy who writes mythology. So technically atlantis is not a part of greek mythology
Ovid was a Roman poet quite a few centuries later, but your point is still valid
Just because it’s not in their myths doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. The Egyptians supposedly told the original Greek “platos uncle?” that it was something in their records that the Greeks had forgotten about. So that’s already been explained.
It was a story from EGYPTIANS and was HISTORY, not mythology. The Egyptians had a written history 2,000 years older than Greek Civilization. Greek Mythology didn't even pretend to be "history".
Well Randall Carlson suggest otherwise and think in could be in the Atlantic Ocean where 3 plates connect over by Africa and Spain and such
The sound volume is really in comparison with regular RUclips videos.
No doubt an allegory, but could have been inspired by a real example. The Greeks thought the world was surrounded by a river called Ocean, so if the Ocean lies beyond the pillars of hercules, the city could be anywhere in the world... there are other candidate cities that sank beneath the waves, one in India for example, Dwarka... or pavlopetri....
I don't think Atlantis was real, but I do think it could be inspired by the Athenian understanding of Minoans and the legend of Theseus and the Minitour. Both have the island based Empire having some sort of conflict with Athens and then getting destroyed so thoroughly it was erased from all memory.
Of course the real Atlantis wasn't real, if anything the Minoans were just an inspiration.
Love your description of the sun burnt tourist squinting - made me laff
You're mistaken as geologists are about the date of the Thera eruption. Their radio carbon data is skewed because of the gases released from that eruption. The tsunamis were as high as 400 ft on some Mediterranean coastlines.
There IS an account of the eruption. And that is the book of Exodus in the Bible which describes very well the eruption. The pillar of smoke by day and the pillar of fire by night. All of the plagues are related to this volcanic activity. Such as the 3 days of darkness, hail mixed with fire, strange animal behavior, the sea becoming red, and a huge carbon dioxide release beneath the Nile Delta region which killed the "1st born of Egypt."
When the Israelites were leaving Goshen in the delta, they traveled due east across the Sea of Reeds (Not the Red Sea which is footnoted in the King James Bible). The sea of reeds was along the coast of the Mediterranean Sea. Their first goal was to head to the land of Canaan. That route wasn't changed until later.
While doing so, Pharaoh and his army pursued them. The water began to recede along the shore, allowing the Israelites to pass through the Sea of Reeds. Then the tsunami hit shortly after Thera exploded and took out Pharaoh's Army.
Now we've seen and heard of the stories of the volcanic lake in Africa of recent, which turned red. Then days later a whole village of 1000s of people were killed by the carbon dioxide release. So we have precedent to believe this.
Plato was told the story by Solon who got it from Egypt. There's your double witness.
The Exodus ocurred around 1480-1500 bce. Archaeologists put the eruption around 1480-1500 bce.
That eruption caused a 400 year dark age in the region as commerce came to dead stop. As Plato stated, the waterways were filled with mud and debris and were impassable by way of ships for years.
If any Minoans survived its because they were a seafarring people with ports everywhere. But their capitol was on the Island of Thera. Not Crete.
But we have a very precice description of atlantis and the perfect fitting richat structure in mauretania.
but but but I want to believe - and I saw a RUclips video saying blah blah blah!!!
An advanced Island civilisation existed and was destroyed by a cataclysmic event. It wasn't Atlantis, But it's still interesting.
What about the Eye of Africa?
Great video!
The Minoan theory is very intriguing I think, yet out of time frame (if Plato was correct about 9.000 years before his age).
I agree to Atlantis being an invention of Plato - yet it could be based on true stories, Plato reinventing it to make it fit his purpose.
Could it be that Plato and other ancient people mixed two different stories together?
That is, the Minoan theory, and some much older civilization?
- First, the collapse of the more recent Minoan civilization (and many others, the time of the great bronze age collapse).
And we don't know what the "Minoans" (a modern word) called themselves. But what did other cultures cll them, for example the nearby Myceneans?They had a written language at the time (until the great bronze age collapse after which writing is forgotten in this area). The geographis of Thera and Crere does not match Plato's description, but perhaps the way their civilization collapsed does?
- Second, the (Egyptian?) memory of a much older civilization which also collapsed after earthquakes and floods. A much older civilization we have yet to discover. (Could south-western Spain be the place? If Plato is correct, it matches the geographic location, and findings/ excavations more inland have clues pointing towards the Atlantis myth).
Perhaps we will never know the truth.
I know the truth and the Minoan theory is NOT the location of Atlantis. But Atlantis was real.
Minoans potentially called themselves Cretan I would think, given even the Egyptians and other contemporary civilizations called them something vaguely similar to "Cretan"
Eye of the Sahara was Atlantis
What other stories did Plato make up, though?
About as many as Jesus didn't I'd say. At least we know that Plato actually existed.
The cave
@@charlesmountney8062 most scholars believe jesus eciwted. Because we have roman evidences
@@shreyvaghela3963 No mention of Jesus at the supposed time of his life from any source. Only Roman reports of Christianity from many years after his supposed death.
Unless you can prove otherwise and I sincerely doubt that.
@@charlesmountney8062 go talk to the scholars. It takes a Wikipedia search to know that. Scholars are not all morons
I doubt Plato made it up. The sentences and usages are unlike the rest of Plato's writing. He seems to be using someone else's material both in Timaeus and in Critias.
The worst thing about the Atlantis tale is that crackpots latch onto the 9000 years ago date mentioned, and then try to beat science over the head with their one source, and insist that scientists are suppressing knowledge of a lost civilization or something. There aren't many good things about it. But it does mention that the Greeks knew how to write before the war with Atlantis, but not afterwards when their society was destroyed by natural causes. That factoid suggests that the tale might be about the loss of Greek writing at the end of the bronze age.
Palace? Looks like a concrete university.
but if it wasn't aliens, does that mean... it was aliens?
Atlantis is what is now known as Doggerland.
One of the best videos ever made
wow good
What do you think of the Richat Structure (Eye of the Sahara) in Moratoria? It would seem it fits every part of the description.
I 100% am convinced this is the place.
@Just think You are correct sir. The link you posted is right on. Great argument on the migration to Egypt as well. Compare the Eye of Horus to the Eye of Sahara. Very eerie. If you overlay them they are practically identical
@@ManBoo55 wow, a ring of circles looks like another ring of circles?? Who would’ve guessed? It should be abundantly clear, if you wanted this 3 part series or use any logic, that Atlantis was never a real place.
Your assertion that Plato invented this story is supported by as many proven facts as the claims of those who still search for the lost city... none. The only truth about Atlantis is that we cannot prove anything about it.
Wrong
@@dp6003 go on
I want to believe
Santorini
Atlantis is such a great story--and so hard to give up. Personally, I've always liked the idea that the Minoans were really the ancient Atlantans. Disturbing to hear the truth of the chronology.
Wow. Some real nutters in the comments. Why does anything like this attract them? Great video btw.
What are the “nutters” saying?
@@DoctorTauri my thoughts exactly.. do tell
Proverbs 15:2b
@@IlIllllIllIllIllIl exactly. Calls people nutters but doesn't even explain
Because for them Atlantis being real is like an religious article of faith, must be true in spite of the complete lack of any evidence.
also I wonder what Plato would think about the hand-waving modern so-called experts basically calling him a liar, over 2 millenia later?
About the same as he would think about some dumb dumb who is clueless as to what an allegory is. Doh.
Please give Randall Carlson the time of day. You won’t regret it.
My thoughts are that Santorini was the true hub and Capitol of the Minoan civilization. Crete was a state not the main island. So much of Santorini was utterly vaporized that the true extent of it's architecture will never be known. The ruins uncovered from the ash layer indicate sophisticated knowledge of building and plumbing techniques and these ruins would have been many miles away from the main city and harbor. Knossos is a magnificent structure, it makes one imagine the wonders destroyed by blast and tsunami
The ruins on Santorini follow roughly the same patterns as those on Crete. There were probably other settlements on Santorini. The rough size of Santorini before the eruption is known - and still minute, bordering on insignificant, next to the size of Crete.
@@Norralin The entire interior of the island was pretty much atomized. I have read estimates of 6 square kilometers of land was blown about into the stratosphere. This land of course having the harbor, government buildings, military buildings, elite palaces, wealthy chateaux, middle class houses, military buildings, museums, religious buildings and many, many other structures as well. This doesn't even take into account the enormous amount of destruction caused by a 20 meter tsunami on their holdings in Crete and the rest of the Mediterranean.
@@flywheel9759 your point being? Crete is several thousand square kilometres. Santorini at its largest was a speck in comparison.
@@Norralin Not sure the equation between relative land mass size is so important to you. Both islands had to be populated by people in boats. The Minoans did not evolve on Crete. The number of Minoan archaeological sites on Crete proper does not support the "land mass" theory as well.
@@flywheel9759 Why would you assume, on no evidence, that Santorini, and not Crete was the main seat of Minoan civilization? Pre- eruption Santorini was pretty similar to what is today - except santorini was probably slightly larger - and connected to the island of Thirassia. In place of the modern Nea Kameni - there was probably a larger island. Why and how Santorini would conceivably of greater significance than Crete is lost on me. Does it fit some fantasy you have perhaps? On Crete there are several sites which all dwarf the minon style ancient Akrotiri.
I'm willing to see your side, but this series of videos was very unconvincing. You need a longer format to take on Atlantis. All I saw was the discrediting of a couple easy targets that got it wrong, and a fairly ok basic summary of the story.
You really went for the low hanging fruit on this one.
Also, on the note that you made your part three about a particular theory; you should've picked the Richat Structure theory, which is a much stronger argument, and would be a much more interesting challenge to disprove.
Do you believe in santa?
@@boozecruiser everyone knows that Santa used to live in Atlantis before relocating to the North Pole.
I bet Doggerland had a lot going on; low lying land, easy to make circular watery defences, swarming with nordics, westish, sunken. Surely that'd influence myth and legend. But that's beside the point; Atlantis still exists and is cloaked by electric space people.
Doggerland is amazing, glad the storegga slide hid it though so we don't share a land border with mainland Europe
What do you think of the "Eye of the Sahara" theory? I got to say its uncannily accurate to Plato's description.
@UCdSn_IJdG_wOiLicSSeF4GQ Interesting. Can you point me at some sources for that? I saw the Bright Insight videos (hey, he's entertaining) and I couldn't find a fault with his argument re: the rings, the apparent harbour, the mountains etc. Its even placed on what would have been the Atlantic coast. I just thought it worth asking as I'm sure greater minds than mine can debunk it.
I personally think it is the eye of africa.
👍👍👍
Always appreciated!
Toldinstone, You have not included were or when Atlantis was meant to have existed, if I remember correctly the times and place you have suggested for any plausible real place for Atlantis don't make sense nor match what Plato had said about Atlantis time and position?
Everyone knows Atlantis was a real location. It’s where they made all the dragons and krakens. Duh.
If a bunch of people with tons of equipment went down to the ocean, just think what they would discover, shipwrecks, new species, maybe lost cities like Atlantis, and many other things!
ATLANTIS SADLY FOR YA IS THE ENTIER CONTINENT OF AMERICA + ISLANDS IN MID (AZORES)
I like ya videos mate, but all this is very assumptive and kind of plays to the scientific communities dogma relating to anyone thinking outside the box on the matter. It is not that far fetched to assume that landmasses once host to ancient people would be drowned under water. Plenty of geological evidence as of late to suggest rapid melting of ice during the end of the last ice age. Not saying there is any definitive proof of anything yet, but the idea of Atlantis comes up in too many cultures as well as a Noah's ark flood situation and its fairly ignorant of the scientific community to just believe they have all the answers. Plato was referencing stories of older generations quite often and it's more likely that the stories got more aligorical and less descriptive as they were passed down. And before anyone says it, I ain't thinking about aliens or any of that shit. Even if such things may be possible there is no evidence to attribute anything to that. There is just too much geological findings against this idea that everything we see now is as it was at the beginning of human civilisation and that people never had to adapt to changes in the earth's structure. It's easy to believe we lost history and knowledge because of this. Water level changes are even referenced within scriptures dating back to the fall of the Sumerians before they were absorbed into another culture most likely. Would argue that its hard to believe in the time it's taken for humans to reach this level, after existing for 300000 years as the same anatomically correct beings, we only tried to build cities and invent things for the last few thousands of years. Like I said too much evidence to at least support a plausible reason as to why a civilisation could be drowned and far less likely that some guy would go to the trouble of using all that as aligory. More likely the story was so worn down by that point that he may have believed it was an aligory for other things himself.
Been looking for a comment like this one 👑
Claiming you know for a fact that Atlantis was just a story, is just as ridiculous as claiming it's 100 percent real with no evidence. Plato states that it is in fact a true story many times, and saying he's lying about that discredits him completely. You also failed to state many of the physical characteristics of Thera that match Atlantis as well, and you simply stuck to whatever suits your narrative.
With other words, Plato made it up, but it was too good a story to just let go to waste…
Have you seen the recent theories on Atlantis location being where the modern day Richat Structure or the Eye of the Sahara is? Based on the Younger Dryes climate event
That was the Older Dryes....youre getting things out of sequence.
There isn’t much evidence for that theory. A lot of people support it, but the guy who promotes the theory uses no evidence and a lot of conjecture. It is as much fiction as any other theory. Only one team of researchers has actually been to the rich at in the last 60 years. And they saw no evidence of anything besides rocks and came to the conclusion it must be Atlantis.
@Just think I’ve watched the video 4 times. Each time I watch it I hear Jimmy very confidently say that he has proof it’s there. But the geology doesn’t support it. Archaeology doesn’t support it. One team of people has been there in recent years to investigate, and found nothing of note other than there are some circles in the dirt that pretty closely match dimensions listed. He mentions some alleged surveys by the us military from the 60’s that he claims indicate abnormal electromagnetic activity. That is literally any conspiracy theorists go to for I have no proof and wish to use science to back my claim. It sounds like a cool potential answer at surface level, but no scholar at any level should support this. It rides the line between pseudoscience, fiction, and the fallacy of you can’t prove it didn’t happen.
@Just think the Atlas Mountains are likely named after the same king atlas he mentions. The same king who lived in 200 bc. This is clearly not the king atlas of the tale, and since several groups of peoples and languages changed in that area in just the 3000 years prior to that I’m going to believe it’s relatively unreleased. The erosion seen hasn’t been investigated well by anybody. It looks similar to water erosion, but also to wind erosion. Several places in the Mojave desert share this wear pattern and have been caused in the last 400 years by wind funneled by mountains. All of these points are circumstantial. They might allow you to come to the conclusion that this could be the place, but not that it must be or is. Having said that he fudges the story pretty significantly. There is not a single piece of evidence that an Egyptian ever told this tale. If it was important enough to pass down 10000 years why is not a single other mention of it found in Egypt? The sea level which would be required to connect the Richard to the sea would also flood 60% of Egypt. Also much of Athens, with whom the Atlanteans allegedly warred. I’m not saying it’s impossible, but I saying that there are major flaws with the theory, as are with any other. Proposing a solution to a problem is fine, and coincidences are okay, but to make it mean anything you need to have proof, not just coincidences. Listen to the video, he never say anything of meaning, just that things are interesting and that they are coincidental and strange. If the theory was anywhere more advanced than it was last year there would be more than coincidences and interesting similarities
@@seankrake4776 Damn you really have watched it 4 times. Still there may not have been a huge civilization that lived in the Richat structure but maybe an ancient tribal or stone age settlement, it being near cave paintings arrowhead findings and a fresh water spring. Would be cool to imagine what it would of looked like back then.
Terrarosis
hey check out Randall Carlson's work on Atlantis... or at least try to debunk his younger dryas theory's
do not know who they were
“Plato invented Atlantis” as in “Homer invented Troy”? Heinrich Schliemann begged to differ.
Schliemann's theoretical troy site...is so wrong. Size etc It's just a village aor town from some period. Not Troy at all. Look to the Poems of Homer to realise that.
@@ddpp1420 I think i wrote 'Or' ..so forgive the typo..but basically, Schliemann was SO Wrong. His site in Turkey is not Troy. Those poems were first written down in Ionian Greek but are much older Celtic stories. The ancient greeks came to assume the Homeric poems were taking place in the Med. Nope, the poems themselves describe an area that is not the med Sea. Iman Wilkens book "Where Troy Once Stood" explains it very convincingly. Hey, i'm sure Schliemann found something...Just No Way was it Troy; his site in Turkey is way too small (for one thing)
Scliemann was way wrong. His Turkey site is ...a Turkey.
@@Dave.S.TT600 I am by no means an expert in that area, just wanted to make the point that “not having found a place” doesn’t mean the place was “invented”.
The actual Troy may be located elsewhere but a as far as I remember, Schliemann found “his Troy” following descriptions in the Iliad. Might even be a coincidence. Who knows for sure?
I am curious: does the book you quote indicate a specific site for Troy?
@@ooppitz1 yes, an area called "The Wash" in England, near Norwich. Taking into account the sea levals at the time and all the etymology, and the actual Homeric Poems (descriptions of tides, sailing times/distances etc etc) and the war ditches and populations etc it says ..basically The Trojan War was a war between "France" & "England" who were both Celtic cultures..a LONG time before ancient Greece's heyday. Very, very convincing..as it always uses the Poems descriptions. the Book 'Where Troy Once Stood by Iman Wilkens
Santorini is Atlantis....
It was probably just a town or city somewhere. In some ocean or lake, That was on volcanic crust. The crust can erode away just like it can "grow". Plato could possibly be referring to a civilization on an island that has been destroyed by the ocean. I mean I bet there are plenty of societies and millions of animals have gone extinct simply because their island "sank".
Play-Doh®
Atlantis some how being tied to America seems the best option imo. Mexico City originally looked much like Atlantis, just thousands of years later. Being the only place designed as such that im aware of, it could be built with knowledge of an older city built the same way. There are possible roman ship wrecks in America and the Caral pyramids in Peru look strangely similar to the Egyptian ones and are just as old, unlike the Mayan and Aztec ones. With other hypotheses for contact with America from Asia and Polynesian Islands, to Europe can't be ignored imo. I think its quite likely that the ancient people may have visited America and known of it at one time.
I remember when I was a kid and Troy was just a myth, and now we know it did indeed exist. Don't be so quick to dismiss Atlantis.
I've always laughed at the "documentaries" about the search for Atlantis, yada, yada. I'm of the mind that Plato's story was a mix of fairly recent (for Plato's time) history and a vivid and fertile imagination. People seem to want to believe the fantastical, regardless of plausibility or evidence to support whatever theory/legend. Just look at the world's religions: all human constructs, IMHO, in an attempt to explain the inexplicable - eclipses (lunar and solar), severe weather events (hurricanes/cyclones, tornadoes, lightening, blizards, monsoons, etc.), earthquakes, volcanoes, etc. Events earlier civlizations were clueless about. Hence the rise/birth of superstition and religion.
Plato may as well have created Atlantis out of Play-Doh! Got em