Why Timpani Kept Growing (Two Pint Timpani) | Evolution of Timpani Part 2
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- Опубликовано: 23 июл 2024
- Our Principal Timpani Adrian Bending presents the second video in his 'Evolution of Timpani' series. A radical new assessment of the development of timpani, his "two pints per player theory" explains clearly how the size of timpani has always been very closely linked to the size of the expanding orchestra.
Watch Evolution of Timpani Part 1: Introducing the Baroque Timpani
• Introducing the Baroqu...
0:00 Intro - Only 1 Timpani
0:43 Timpani in Bach Magnificat vs Verdi Requiem
3:55 Slow and gradual change in size
4:19 Different approaches to music from the same period in history
5:25 Timpani in music of Beethoven
8:16 How the size of the 'D' drum changed (Two pints per player theory)
9:42 Linking size of drum with size of ensemble
11:15 Later on in the series
11:23 Sum up of 400 years of the history of Timpani
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This timpani series is the best thing on this channel.
Thank you. It is very kind of you but I urge everyone to watch lots of extraordinary videos from all my colleagues!
Not only the OAE could make a documentary about the size of timpani, but only the OAE could make it so well! This is a superb documentary about a subject which can be quite interesting even to someone who is not a professional musician. Thank you!
Thank you very much for these lovely comments. We really enjoy making these films and we like it if anyone enjoys them!
Being a timpanist myself I often wondered why the timpanist is sometimes referred to as the 2nd Conductor. Thanks to this informative video I now know why.
If, fifty years ago, you asked a violinist or oboist to play on radically different instruments in the same concert, you might expect a negative response. The explosion of enthusiasm for sounds that the composer would have heard has happened in my lifetime. I've always found it thrilling but so much more so when you explain, in this kind of way, what is going on behind the scenes. The examples here are priceless.
My mind darted back to another favourite Bach moment, the trilling flutes and warm timpani sound at the start of Jauchzet Frohlocket!
Thank you very much for your great comments. I completely agree with your first sentence!
Most timpanists only have access to one set of drums that may or may not match the liter per person ideal. I have a degree in percussion, though in not a professional timpanist, and I never knew most of this stuff. Very interesting. Next time someone asks me which timpani to buy, I’ll refer them to the formula to get the right size for their ensemble.
The competition to be the timpanist must be quite fierce!
Thank you, thank you, thank you. After listening to your brilliant presentation, I believe my I.Q. has gone up 10 points. Being a professional harpist, I am sorry to say, I never gave much thought to the timpani. Now I will listen more intently to the beautiful sounds that come from this instrument. Especially when played on by an artist such as yourself. I certainly look forward to the next installment.
Thank you very much. One thing I also find very interesting is hearing all my colleagues talk about their instruments. So please explore our channel and you will find many more fascinating videos revealing wonderful facts and musicianship!
Fantastic overview of the timpani👏🏻 earlier this morning, I wouldn’t have been able to name those drums I’ve seen in orchestra, but now I’m glad I have much more knowledge.
Tubas have also just about doubled in size since they were introduced into the orchestra; old French high C tubas have 8ft of pipe in the main bugle and modern ones are typically 16 or 18ft. The original basstubas in F are also quite slim and small in terms of bore and bell diameter compared to a modern contrabass York style in C or Bb.
Trombones have also doubled their bell diameters and doubled the cross sectional area of their tubing to increase volume.
thanks for this. I am also a (bad!) trombone player! I spoke with some brass players before making my claim, but I accept that some of these instruments got very much bigger. Regarding length - I do not mean doubling in size due to length or pitch, because I am concerned here with the volume of sound. This is the sense I meant doubling in size. I will be doing research into the how the increase of volume in decibels relates to the volume of the bowl, and I am very interested to read research into how this affects brass instruments if you can send me any links? thanks
@@adrianbending1 I don't think RUclips is letting me post links. There is a good study titled "Acoustical Comparisons of Sackbuts and Trombones" by D. Murray Campbell, John Chick, and Arnold Myers.
The original bass tuba was patented by Johann Gottfried Moritz. Searching by his name returns good results. Sorry I'm not aware of scholarly sources on the growth of the tuba.
The slow, steady growth of drums is pretty interesting and unique; I believe brass instruments grew substantially in the latter portions of the 19th century and early 20th, but have largely stabilized and aren't changing much now.
@@seth094978 thanks very much for this - I will check it out. Perhaps we might get into videos like this for instruments across the whole orchestra. Watch this space!
@@adrianbending1 I'm curious, has there been much change in the size of cymbals over the years? I could see them also changing to keep up with larger orchestras.
@@seth094978 I believe trombone bore size has continued to grow from .500 aroun dWW2 to the .547" of orchestral trombones today. I believe this is largely driven by desired tone, rather than technical considerations. Advances in metalworking and plating have much improved slides and valves, but I don't think the relatively recent changes have been influenced by improved fabrication.
French horns, with the proliferation of more tubing and valves, might have been more influenced by better metalworking.
Thank you - I've been waiting for Part two of this series and I am delighted it has come at last. It is fascinating to hear about the development of the timpani. I had hoped, however to hear some more about Beethoven's use of the instrument, especially in the 5th symphony, the 9th, which you covered, and in the first movement of the violin concerto and in the piano concerto version of the violin work with the timpani used in the cadenza. Just wondering why he had such a fix on the drums. Of course this could well be a coda for the end of your series. Just an idea. (aside) I also think Beethoven had a thing about bassoon and bassoonists but that's off topic. Again thanks and I'm waiting for part 3.
Thanks for the nice comments! My next video will cover the classical period and into Romantic music. I can't guarantee I will cover your specific requests but there will definitely be lots on Beethoven!
OAE, you are wonderfully enlightening! Thank you so much!
I cannot wait for the next one!!!
Great insight :) Thanks!
This is awesome. Can't wait for part 3!
Fascinating!
thank you so much
Loving this series!
Very good!!!
Beautiful Adrian.
great work
Love your series on Timpani! I do not know much of anything about it. Looking forward to the other parts 🌻
That was fantastic! I never knew there was so much to know about the humble timpani! And I thought there was a lot of info in Part1!
Thanks for that. I have never really thought much about the tympani, but I promise to give them more respect in the future.
In a series of excellent videos this is clearly the best one so far! Excellent explanation and narration.
Loved this
So interesting!!!!!
Lovely stuff! 👍🏽🤓👍🏽
thanks Paul! 😃
Thanks for Everything, I Loved This Video. He Changed My Life In the Second Half of 2023 😊
Can't wait for episode 3. Hope it's ready soon!
Hi @danw9403, it's in the works, not long now! 😊
I love IT Muchas. GRACIAS
The evolution of timpani has expanded to the new Tenor Timpani
You are the best !
Thank you very much!
Would you do a video on the development of mallets at some point?
Maybe not a separate video but I will talk more about mallets in all future videos. So far they have not been very important since almost exclusively wood was used in the baroque period.
Sooooooooooo interesting. I'm sharing
Thank you for the great videos! This video gave me a new perspective on timpani playing in orchestra! I can't wait for 3rd video! And if possible, could you please talk about mallet choosing?
In the next video, I mean.
@@jerrylee9456 thank you for your positive comments! If you see below, somebody asked the same question about mallets and I answer it there.
Each drum can be tuned to a different pitch and with one player per drum you could play crazy melodies on timpani.
Adding a Pedal allowed them to fine tune
7:15 Beethoven used the same type of timpani in the final movement of his Eighth Symphony.
Can you please continue this series
the next film is almost ready! I was waiting for some content with the orchestra which is now done
❤
I must say I like the smaller timpani more even in modern music where they are not loud enough- perhaps it is more the wooden drumstick then the timpani but in the old style playing, there is a higher "low end shock" and "articulation noise" to humming and bell sound ratio so it makes in my ears a more compelling and multi purpose " overall drum" then just timpani. It feels to me as if snare and bass drum characteristics are quasi automatically mixed into the sound.
👍🏻
Natural selection made the timpani evolve.
Absolutely!
@@adrianbending1 The large size of a timpano was selected for while the small size was selected against.
@@catycat28meow yes. Also the tuning systems, which tend to go with larger drums which I will talk about in later videos. But now small drums are making a comeback as many orchestras now play earlier music with smaller forces!
I am sure you agree that people sometimes mistakenly think that "evolution" means "improvement" but it just means "change"
If the conductor tells you to use a smaller drum, how do you reply?
Hopefully it is a discussion, not being "told"! I think it is hard if small drums are not available. One can use gels in the middle of the heads to reduce decay, resonance and volume.
👍🏼🇲🇽
I’m retired after 45 years playing Timpani , Opera , Ballet and Symphonic Orchestras , amazing life !!!
I wonder who had to drag all those drums outside to make that timp spiral!
The old ones sound richer, more resonant, and more "in tune" to me. Why don't you try mic-ing a set of old ones up and see how that sounds for Verdi or Mahler?
That's an interesting idea. But once you start getting into amplification, that really affects the sound of the whole orchestra, and the acoustic of the hall is important. I think the sound of each drum is very appropriate for the context in which it is written for. And they don't sound particularly good on their own, as I demonstrate them here!
If u arrange them like that its an exercise to run around to hit different notes
11:23 So as Orchestras got bigger, so did the Drums.
Conan "The Anvil Of Crom"
TIMPANI IS THE RUDEST INSTRUMENT… ALWAYS GOING ‘BUM BUM BUM BUM’ 😂
MOZART MADE A TIMPANI CONCERTO : LICK MY TIMPANI GOOD AND CLEAN ‘BUM BUM BUM’ 😂
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