I love how you slap us in the face with reality checks from time to time, even though you suffer from the same FOMO and contribute to the hype within the industry. At the end of the day, you share the same love for the hobby like the rest of us and you share your perspective knowing your personal biases. Great video, Alex!
Great video, as always. Thank you for both showing your enthusiasm and coverage os the new stuff, as well as the grounded approach that makes us rethink things before pulling the trigger on everything...
I'm currently having a custom Tak set made (without having ever played it) based on your constant praise of the game and my own love for the book series. I did watch a playthrough and was intrigued enough to go forward with it because I remember you saying you wish you had one. The retail copy just looked too cheap. Already have the 30 marble cut squares of each color so I can play up to the 6x6 game. Now I'm looking for some really unique stone capstone pieces and am having a custom wooden board made. Very much looking forward to it even if it turns out to not be for me. It'll be a very pretty showpiece
Do you have a post where you go into more details? Or do you have a list of where you source the components and how you're having the wooden board made? Getting a custom high quality Tak set would really be a dream of mine so I'd be super interested.
@@johnnicolas1847 I teach English in Taiwan and one of the families I private tutor owns a construction company. So they had one of their manufacturers make the pieces for me. They are 3x3x1 cm polished synthetic marble squares of white and dark gray. They told me the synthetic materials were lighter and stronger and wouldn't chip or crack if dropped like normal mable. The wooden board is being put together by a friend of mine who is a woodworker. We are still designing it to get the colors and orientation correct. I will post the final result on one of Alex's Take videos. But I'm hoping for a 5x5 multicolored square board with circular pips on each squares corner to allow for 6x6 play if desired. As well as a nice boarder around the playing area. Overall it's turning out very nice and much cheaper than expected since the family made the marble pieces for me for free despite my offer to pay whatever for them.
I bought the anniversary edition of Castles of Burgundy. It was a visual upgrade from the base game I loved. Now Gamefound has a deluxe version of castles of burgundy. I hit the follow button...and as soon as I did my wife asked; "Are you really going to buy the same game for the third time?". Our hobby makes no sense. Also, I confess I have all the marvel united stuff and I love the game. My family loves the game. But we're never going to get enough games in to justify the price. With rising costs and longer delays in production processes, making decisions like the ones above are getting harder. I have said no to more projects this year than in my entire time in the hobby. Maybe it's because the cost and time Barriers attached to kick starter are getting to be too high for me? Maybe I'm settling into a good place where I want to deep dive the stuff I already have? Or maybe I'm just tired of paying premiums in time and money for games that didn't meet my standards for a "good back"? Your video exemplifies this fight every time I think about hitting the back button. Having someone like you that helps me uncover the possible value and promise of a game is immensely useful. Thanks for the great content Alex!
Great topic of conversation! I enjoy watching all the latest board game videos for entertainment. In the past few years that has also led to some purchases (none I regret). For now my unplayed games in my collection remain at zero! But I have my first baby coming soon and about a dozen backed games arriving within the next year or so... I think I need to stop purchasing now and just enjoy the games I have. I'll still continue to watch most of the videos you put out and try to ignore the hype :)
It's a good topic. Recently I've been deciding on Casting Shadows. While the standees and vinyl figures are really pretty, the cost of those upgrades and the range of the gameplay is not on the same level (at least for me). it made me reconsider the upgrades, but I will have a look at the retail version when it hits game stores.
Great points, and a sentiment that you try to include in most videos which is always appreciated. I struggle often when trying assess the good vs. bad back/value on projects that I'm really interested in and its always so demoralizing when new info comes around which makes you realize you may be sliding onto the bad sides of the equation. ZC: Undead or Alive has been bothering me recently, it went from a pretty much guaranteed no-question good back and value in my mind to "Can I get rid of it as soon as it arrives and recover my money?" once Marvel Zombies was announced. The all-in of UoA has so much content and promise but with the delay on fulfillment coupled with the pre-campaign development of MZ means that I will be getting them just a few months apart and now I'm wondering how much time I will realistically be able to devote to UoA when MZ appeals to me more and gaming time (particularly with a group) is finite and friends likely will not want to devote so much time to playing two versions of ZC when there are so many other games on our shelves.
Your recent videos on these lines really have helped me come to clear decisions. 1) I didn't back the new Ares because I've never played the game! So I resisted the hype and decided I'll try it or buy it at retail. 2) I know which games I absolutely must have on KS (On the Underground: NYC/Paris when it comes out eventually, for example; a definite MUST for me), and others that I can just look at from afar and wait for retail or 2nd-hand. 3) The 2nd-hand market, and BGG Math Trades, has lots of good stuff, I just have to be patient. So, thanks for these videos!
I understand what you're saying but I also disagree with that. If you $10 for something you can only buy for $2, you can be happy with your purchase while it also being a mistake. Similarly if you pay $100 for an experience and you could have had an equitably good experience that is different for $10, you can be happy with that experience while it's still being a mistake. For most people money is a finite resource, pretending it isn't is a choice we can all make but usually not a recommended one.
@@BoardGameCo I do get what you’re saying so a factor might be that it depends on the kind of buyer you might be based on your life situation. As a kid, I didn’t have access to funds so I had to be picky when it came to spending. Now as an adult with funds, I have more options and can choose what I want to buy and play. When it comes to purchases I could weigh out the bang for my buck but I simplify it to putting money into something I’m going to love regardless and I never look back or have regrets. Like you were saying I very much agree that most of it is very subjective. Personally I find it easier to back things that I’m really interested in and not necessarily whats best or popular. Doing so also keeps me from breaking my wallet most of the time.
@@move3spaces246 It’s easy but hard to do. List down top 5 games I want to play for next BG gathering. For the last 5, give them a warning. If I want to buy a new one, choose one of them and sell it. That’s all! If I can’t sell the game, no game in. That’s the rule!
Interesting conversation and one that many of us have with ourselves regularly. I’d disagree with you about some of this. Skulls of Sedlec looked good to me but I couldn’t see spending $40 for a micro game. Gloomhaven is a great value IF you play it. Any game can be a good or bad value based on your individual circumstance. I try to balance my purchases based on value. I didn’t end up backing Marvel United but grabbed the two base games and the Spiderverse for only $50 on Amazon. Do I wish I had more content? The collector in me says “Yes!” The budget minded part of me is glad to experience it at such a low cost (and using way less shelf space).
Good back / good value is for me typically something I'll play and enjoy (and relative to the cost). I don't care about resale value, don't value exclusives (over and above the value of the item itself). I got some very good advice many years ago, of buying what I really want, not what is cheap / reduced / ostensibly 'good value'. I still don't always follow that advice, but it's something I needed to hear and take into account.
Interesting topic. My approach to crowdfunding is this: I look if I might like the gameplay. I try to look the company up and see how their previous games went. And when I like what I find out. I usually go all in for the additional bling bling :)
Seeing Fireball island on the table during this video makes me cringe haha. Cringe. Definitely my biggest KS regret seeing it for $20 at target with a better box a few years later and not having played it. My wife and I had the Fomo and wanted to buy it for our kid before she was even born to make sure we would have it as a family 6+ years in the future lol
Great straight talk. I certainly suffer from Fomo and feel the pull of KS. I hate getting ripped-off or losing an opportunity, but that’s the same side of me that gets abused and manipulated by marketing. Companies know what they’re doing. As you said... finite time. Finite money.
To your point about value being subjective for Marvel United and Zombiecide I enjoy the idea of creating my own stories and campaigns with all the heroes which gives me enjoyment beyond the gameplay mechanics making having lots of content so much more important to me than someone mainly interested in the gameplay. I also got into painting minis over the last year so I there is a whole other area where I calculate value over a nonpainter
Love this video. Thanks for it. I just bought Century Golem Edition which is a crazy good price for what you get. If that game were on kickstarter, it would easily be over 50 bucks plus shipping and I got it for 30. Unfortunately now I’m craving the expansions. 😆
I backed the All-In of Railroad Ink. Think it was a Great Value because I played it about 50 times with my wife. Sure in Retail it was a lower price. Most played game beside Terraforming Mars.
Like that you mentioned marvel zombies as a good back/value, I couldn't agree more. What are your thoughts on this casting shadows as far as back/value from a resale point? Target market is clearly not at us cardboard addicts but the art is crisp and bright and past games from them in the deluxe versions have appreciated in value quite a bit.....
I may be the exception. In a year I have played every ounce pf marvel united with over 140 plays. The gameplay is widely variable, its fast to setup, easy to teach and play. I gladly went all in on season 2 because I knee I would play everything. I also sold ridiculous characters like Spiderham and Beta Ray Bill and recouped about 1/3 of the all in. With X-Men I bet I get the same value. Then again I keep only about 20 games and all of them are deluxe or upgraded. If a game isnt played in 3 months it leaves.
While I haven't played Marvel United as often as I would have liked to, I still regard it as good value. The last time I looked, the stretch goals box alone sells for more than I paid for the content all-in. If I tire of it, I'm pretty sure I'll be able to sell it and (between plays and the resale price) say I've got my money's worth out of it.
Perhaps instead of discussing "value", should discuss "financial value" versus "experiential/subjective value". At times, i think these concepts have been confusingly conflated. As most people associate the word "value" with price, I think wording "good back poor value" is confusing although i agree with and appreciate the concepts behind these labels. it's interesting discussion that raises philosophical and econmic concepts such as utility, consumer surplus, along with subjectivity and the nature of truth. Heavy stuff!
Consumer surplus is Price Willing to Pay minus Actual Price, where Price willing to pay is further bases on both potential resale price AND the perceived price you'd pay for the experience.
I try to shoot for a $5/player hour value. So a $100 game needs 20 player hours to hit that. That's 20 solo hours, 10 2-player hours, etc. Most all my games hit that at some point. Many are waaaaay over that. Many come down to $0.50-$1 per player hour. But I have a good number of unplayed games too....
"There's nothing more useless than something that doesn't get used." Me. This is my motto for spring cleaning as well as buying games. Do i have the friends/game group to play this game? How often will we get to play it? If yes & yes, is it a game that everyone will want/be eager to play multiple times?
I tend to like going all in for KS games because the group I play with is really quite picky that the games look good. If it doesn’t look good and can’t get involved in the theme then they just won’t play or don’t have a good experience… I am more picky about the games I pick up though. My biggest criteria for a game are the time and the complexity. If it’s too long or too heavy it won’t get played.
Despite watching majority of you vids, I don't tend to think about Values that much. I basically look at the campaign, I glance through a rulebook or the rules and then I decide if the game will get to the table and if my game group will want to play it. This process tends to work for the most part, but I can't say that Fomo doesn't take hold of me on some projects.
I feel like your points on Marvel Zombies and Marvel United could have better been summed up as: base pledge for CMON probably falls into that Good value/pledge, whereas all in tends to be a good pledge bad value. I would argue the $60 MU base pledge was a much better value than MZ base pledge, but certainly if you compare base MZ with all in MU1 and 2, that changes it substantially.
Just got Skulls of Sedlec yesterday based on your recommendation. What an awesome little filler game. Played it 4 times in like 40 minutes and we had a great time. So glad I got the expansions to change it up. I only back things that I know I am getting the best value now because I know I would overpay to get it later. I am in the good back/good value bucket. If I know I can get it later cheaper I just wait. Too many games to play anyway. I have made a couple mistakes, but for the most part had really good success.
Fairly new to KS and table top, only things I have backed are Darkest dungeon and xmen untied so I'm looking for some advice. I've looking at alot of campaign style table tops and was wondering where Stormsunder would land in the good/bad value department? I noticed they still have preorders available and it ships next month and I'm thinking about doing the core pledge.
Welcome to the board gaming space! There's a lot of fun to be had. I'm also probably going to be snagging Stormsunder as a late pledge/preorder, but they are running behind. I think we'd be lucky to have Act 1 by the end of the year. You'll have until the summer to decide when they close the pledge manager. I'm waiting as long as possible to decide since I am comparing it to all the other similar projects that go live. I think the value will be fine. The mini's alone will probably be sought after for those that play tabletop RPG's. The main question is... will you have time to play it. That's my big question as well for these campaign style games.
@@jalsbrook AWESOME, I had no idea how long the Stormsunder preorders would be up for and was going to grab the core purely off of FOMO today lol. Not an exact date but gives me some time to sit on it. Currently waiting on my all in pledges of Xmen untied and Darkest Dungeon(likely reselling this one). But I'm looking into my foray into a big campaign and I'm looking into Massive Darkness 2, Stormsunder or Oathsworn. Leaning hard on stormsunder though, Oathsworn I've heard fantastic things about but visually it's not going it for me like Stormsunder is.
It is so good that you make these video as well. Kudos - because this is a conversation most here do not want to have.... That being said: I 100% don't agree with the criteria you use - I'd go to nominal value per item (what is build cost, what is extra cost on top of that) vs what you pay. Does this seem like value? (for instance as dumb as it is - 100 minis vs 100 cards is a big difference). In a sense I'd also rather be paying for incredible components, brilliant inserts and artwork that pulls you (and of course balanced mechanics) in rather than expansions that only make sense if you play more than 30 missions or play the game over 80 times.... which, as you know, nearly no one really does. Hence Frosthaven for me is a bad example: why pay $ 250 for Frosthaven when you can have a great experience with JOTL for 20-25% of that price? Boggles my mind.... seriously
For marvel United. The piece per game play works well for me. I sold half of it and kept the rest which includes about 40 figures for free. So that’s worth it. For x-men United. The base game is an amazing value with all those stretch goals. Once you get into all the expansions I agree with you. You’ll never play it enough.
Hey Alex, would you considering covering some lighter war games? I've recently come across some games like Down in Flames, Tank Duels and Warfighter WW2 which are fantastic. Totally get it if those kind of games just aren't your cup of tea, but I was of the same opinion recently until I started looking into them.
There are some games that I legitimately think are great but if there is a barrier of setup and heavy play I'm not gonna play them as much. Maracaibo is a great game I won't bother buying (unless hot sale) as I can't see getting it to the table as often as others. Also at some point even Marvel Zombies crosses into the bad category . Too much money compared to hiw often your probably gonna play it.
I've done 2 kickstarter so far. The 2nd one just ended today. It doesn't make me want to do more. I learned a lot about KS culture during this one and y'all seem insane to me for doing this over and over and over. Both KS were very positive experiences, but this does not feel like how these products should be sold by big companies.
@@BoardGameCo Will be really interested to see which bucket you think this one falls into when we get the details on it. I'll be looking out for this one!
Street fighter the miniatures game. Super expensive, basic skirmish game with amazing minis. Got unmatched a bit later and now it's all we play. Probably played street fighter a dozen times so far. I try to tell myself I'm a die hard fighting game fan, so it's okay 😂. That wasn't a gaming purchase, it was a collection purchase.
I'd like the patreon version of this where you berate your viewers hardcore to make better choices! ;) Undaunted Radlands Monolooy deal The mind Are great value.
I wanted Gloomhaven. I wanted Scythe. I wanted Arydia. I think they are all very good games, but I decided to skip all of them. I have Tales of the Northlands: The Sagas of Noggin the Nog (minus the minis because they were very expensive). You probably haven't heard of Tales of the Northlands and probably won't see any copies on the secondary market in the US. I have Lunarchitects, which you may have heard of and there might be a copy or two floating around. These two games might not be objectively as good as the three I didn't get, but I don't ever regret the money I spent on them. Arkeis is in a grey area. I regretted not backing it on KS, then when it got hugely delayed I was happy I skipped it. When it finally is available I expect that it will be far more expensive than the KS price which sort of makes me regret not backing it again. But I have plenty of games and won't miss it in the long run, so I don't regret skipping it...
Let's see if we can put a number on it using a game with a limited lifespan. An EXIT game costs $11 USD. Let's round this to $12 to make the math easy. An EXIT game runs about 60-90 minutes, so let's go with 90, probably more average. So $12 / 90 min = $4 per 30 minutes. So if you think an EXIT game is a good value, you could say a game should cost $8 per hour (about on par with a movie ticket). So if you spent $750 for Marvel Zombies, you will need to play for 94 hours to have an equal amount of value. However, if you don't think an EXIT game is a good value, and you think it should only cost $X, then you can do your own math and figure out what you think a game should cost per hour.
The problem is that the hours / game (and therefore $/hr) is only one measure of value; and likely not a very critical or informative one IMO. I'd definitely pay more for an excellent one hour experience than a mediocre 2 hour experience so the biggest part of that value decision is not based on the duration of play. If you know you'll really like and enjoy the game then I think $/hour is a good metric to compare to other things like going to a movie or the symphony or whatever else you enjoy doing.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
I love how you slap us in the face with reality checks from time to time, even though you suffer from the same FOMO and contribute to the hype within the industry. At the end of the day, you share the same love for the hobby like the rest of us and you share your perspective knowing your personal biases. Great video, Alex!
Great video, as always.
Thank you for both showing your enthusiasm and coverage os the new stuff, as well as the grounded approach that makes us rethink things before pulling the trigger on everything...
Great video. Always appreciate your thoughtful opinions
Great video if a little on the somber side. Your view of the whole monetary aspect is the reason I started following you way back when.
I'm currently having a custom Tak set made (without having ever played it) based on your constant praise of the game and my own love for the book series. I did watch a playthrough and was intrigued enough to go forward with it because I remember you saying you wish you had one. The retail copy just looked too cheap. Already have the 30 marble cut squares of each color so I can play up to the 6x6 game. Now I'm looking for some really unique stone capstone pieces and am having a custom wooden board made. Very much looking forward to it even if it turns out to not be for me. It'll be a very pretty showpiece
Do you have a post where you go into more details? Or do you have a list of where you source the components and how you're having the wooden board made? Getting a custom high quality Tak set would really be a dream of mine so I'd be super interested.
@@johnnicolas1847 I teach English in Taiwan and one of the families I private tutor owns a construction company. So they had one of their manufacturers make the pieces for me. They are 3x3x1 cm polished synthetic marble squares of white and dark gray. They told me the synthetic materials were lighter and stronger and wouldn't chip or crack if dropped like normal mable. The wooden board is being put together by a friend of mine who is a woodworker. We are still designing it to get the colors and orientation correct. I will post the final result on one of Alex's Take videos. But I'm hoping for a 5x5 multicolored square board with circular pips on each squares corner to allow for 6x6 play if desired. As well as a nice boarder around the playing area. Overall it's turning out very nice and much cheaper than expected since the family made the marble pieces for me for free despite my offer to pay whatever for them.
I bought the anniversary edition of Castles of Burgundy. It was a visual upgrade from the base game I loved. Now Gamefound has a deluxe version of castles of burgundy. I hit the follow button...and as soon as I did my wife asked; "Are you really going to buy the same game for the third time?". Our hobby makes no sense.
Also, I confess I have all the marvel united stuff and I love the game. My family loves the game. But we're never going to get enough games in to justify the price.
With rising costs and longer delays in production processes, making decisions like the ones above are getting harder. I have said no to more projects this year than in my entire time in the hobby.
Maybe it's because the cost and time Barriers attached to kick starter are getting to be too high for me? Maybe I'm settling into a good place where I want to deep dive the stuff I already have? Or maybe I'm just tired of paying premiums in time and money for games that didn't meet my standards for a "good back"?
Your video exemplifies this fight every time I think about hitting the back button. Having someone like you that helps me uncover the possible value and promise of a game is immensely useful. Thanks for the great content Alex!
Would be cool if you put each game into its appropriate "bucket" in the to back or not to back video... even if it was only the patreon video
Great topic of conversation! I enjoy watching all the latest board game videos for entertainment. In the past few years that has also led to some purchases (none I regret). For now my unplayed games in my collection remain at zero! But I have my first baby coming soon and about a dozen backed games arriving within the next year or so... I think I need to stop purchasing now and just enjoy the games I have. I'll still continue to watch most of the videos you put out and try to ignore the hype :)
Good monologue. Spicy topic, yet very valid!
It's a good topic. Recently I've been deciding on Casting Shadows. While the standees and vinyl figures are really pretty, the cost of those upgrades and the range of the gameplay is not on the same level (at least for me). it made me reconsider the upgrades, but I will have a look at the retail version when it hits game stores.
Yep, I'm holding onto a pledge that I'm still debating cancelling
Great points, and a sentiment that you try to include in most videos which is always appreciated. I struggle often when trying assess the good vs. bad back/value on projects that I'm really interested in and its always so demoralizing when new info comes around which makes you realize you may be sliding onto the bad sides of the equation. ZC: Undead or Alive has been bothering me recently, it went from a pretty much guaranteed no-question good back and value in my mind to "Can I get rid of it as soon as it arrives and recover my money?" once Marvel Zombies was announced. The all-in of UoA has so much content and promise but with the delay on fulfillment coupled with the pre-campaign development of MZ means that I will be getting them just a few months apart and now I'm wondering how much time I will realistically be able to devote to UoA when MZ appeals to me more and gaming time (particularly with a group) is finite and friends likely will not want to devote so much time to playing two versions of ZC when there are so many other games on our shelves.
Your recent videos on these lines really have helped me come to clear decisions. 1) I didn't back the new Ares because I've never played the game! So I resisted the hype and decided I'll try it or buy it at retail. 2) I know which games I absolutely must have on KS (On the Underground: NYC/Paris when it comes out eventually, for example; a definite MUST for me), and others that I can just look at from afar and wait for retail or 2nd-hand. 3) The 2nd-hand market, and BGG Math Trades, has lots of good stuff, I just have to be patient. So, thanks for these videos!
Thanks Alex. Always great to watch a balanced video.
Its all good if you get what you want. If you get something you wanted, regardless of any other factors, it has value for you.
I understand what you're saying but I also disagree with that. If you $10 for something you can only buy for $2, you can be happy with your purchase while it also being a mistake. Similarly if you pay $100 for an experience and you could have had an equitably good experience that is different for $10, you can be happy with that experience while it's still being a mistake.
For most people money is a finite resource, pretending it isn't is a choice we can all make but usually not a recommended one.
@@BoardGameCo I do get what you’re saying so a factor might be that it depends on the kind of buyer you might be based on your life situation. As a kid, I didn’t have access to funds so I had to be picky when it came to spending. Now as an adult with funds, I have more options and can choose what I want to buy and play. When it comes to purchases I could weigh out the bang for my buck but I simplify it to putting money into something I’m going to love regardless and I never look back or have regrets.
Like you were saying I very much agree that most of it is very subjective. Personally I find it easier to back things that I’m really interested in and not necessarily whats best or popular. Doing so also keeps me from breaking my wallet most of the time.
In order to make myself not to back, for every game I back, I need to sell one of my collections. Only 10 games can be in my house and no more...
Haha 10 games how do you do it!
@@move3spaces246 It’s easy but hard to do. List down top 5 games I want to play for next BG gathering. For the last 5, give them a warning. If I want to buy a new one, choose one of them and sell it. That’s all! If I can’t sell the game, no game in. That’s the rule!
Great conversation
Thanks :)
Interesting conversation and one that many of us have with ourselves regularly. I’d disagree with you about some of this. Skulls of Sedlec looked good to me but I couldn’t see spending $40 for a micro game. Gloomhaven is a great value IF you play it. Any game can be a good or bad value based on your individual circumstance. I try to balance my purchases based on value. I didn’t end up backing Marvel United but grabbed the two base games and the Spiderverse for only $50 on Amazon. Do I wish I had more content? The collector in me says “Yes!” The budget minded part of me is glad to experience it at such a low cost (and using way less shelf space).
Good back / good value is for me typically something I'll play and enjoy (and relative to the cost). I don't care about resale value, don't value exclusives (over and above the value of the item itself).
I got some very good advice many years ago, of buying what I really want, not what is cheap / reduced / ostensibly 'good value'. I still don't always follow that advice, but it's something I needed to hear and take into account.
Yes. I have not played Everdell for a year because I am waiting for the kickstarter …. Maybe next year!
Interesting topic. My approach to crowdfunding is this: I look if I might like the gameplay. I try to look the company up and see how their previous games went. And when I like what I find out. I usually go all in for the additional bling bling :)
Seeing Fireball island on the table during this video makes me cringe haha. Cringe. Definitely my biggest KS regret seeing it for $20 at target with a better box a few years later and not having played it. My wife and I had the Fomo and wanted to buy it for our kid before she was even born to make sure we would have it as a family 6+ years in the future lol
Great straight talk. I certainly suffer from Fomo and feel the pull of KS. I hate getting ripped-off or losing an opportunity, but that’s the same side of me that gets abused and manipulated by marketing. Companies know what they’re doing. As you said... finite time. Finite money.
I got SO lucky with Frosthaven and paid 100$ because of the early bird discount.
Nice, happy for you.
To your point about value being subjective for Marvel United and Zombiecide I enjoy the idea of creating my own stories and campaigns with all the heroes which gives me enjoyment beyond the gameplay mechanics making having lots of content so much more important to me than someone mainly interested in the gameplay. I also got into painting minis over the last year so I there is a whole other area where I calculate value over a nonpainter
Love this video. Thanks for it. I just bought Century Golem Edition which is a crazy good price for what you get. If that game were on kickstarter, it would easily be over 50 bucks plus shipping and I got it for 30. Unfortunately now I’m craving the expansions. 😆
I backed the All-In of Railroad Ink. Think it was a Great Value because I played it about 50 times with my wife. Sure in Retail it was a lower price. Most played game beside Terraforming Mars.
Another great show. I’m already taking your advice. My wallet thanks you! And I thank you as we navigate the sea of games available.
Thanks Steve :)
Roughly half of the must-have crowd-funded board games I backed in the past year I no longer care about.
Like that you mentioned marvel zombies as a good back/value, I couldn't agree more. What are your thoughts on this casting shadows as far as back/value from a resale point? Target market is clearly not at us cardboard addicts but the art is crisp and bright and past games from them in the deluxe versions have appreciated in value quite a bit.....
I may be the exception. In a year I have played every ounce pf marvel united with over 140 plays. The gameplay is widely variable, its fast to setup, easy to teach and play. I gladly went all in on season 2 because I knee I would play everything. I also sold ridiculous characters like Spiderham and Beta Ray Bill and recouped about 1/3 of the all in. With X-Men I bet I get the same value.
Then again I keep only about 20 games and all of them are deluxe or upgraded. If a game isnt played in 3 months it leaves.
Wow, that's insane. Good for you.
In case you were still wondering, you're the exception :D
While I haven't played Marvel United as often as I would have liked to, I still regard it as good value. The last time I looked, the stretch goals box alone sells for more than I paid for the content all-in. If I tire of it, I'm pretty sure I'll be able to sell it and (between plays and the resale price) say I've got my money's worth out of it.
If I really love a game and didn't go deluxe. It is a very expensive move to get it tricked out. Because I will put all that money in to upgrade it.
Perhaps instead of discussing "value", should discuss "financial value" versus "experiential/subjective value". At times, i think these concepts have been confusingly conflated.
As most people associate the word "value" with price, I think wording "good back poor value" is confusing although i agree with and appreciate the concepts behind these labels.
it's interesting discussion that raises philosophical and econmic concepts such as utility, consumer surplus, along with subjectivity and the nature of truth. Heavy stuff!
Consumer surplus is Price Willing to Pay minus Actual Price, where Price willing to pay is further bases on both potential resale price AND the perceived price you'd pay for the experience.
I try to shoot for a $5/player hour value. So a $100 game needs 20 player hours to hit that. That's 20 solo hours, 10 2-player hours, etc. Most all my games hit that at some point. Many are waaaaay over that. Many come down to $0.50-$1 per player hour.
But I have a good number of unplayed games too....
"There's nothing more useless than something that doesn't get used." Me. This is my motto for spring cleaning as well as buying games. Do i have the friends/game group to play this game? How often will we get to play it? If yes & yes, is it a game that everyone will want/be eager to play multiple times?
I tend to like going all in for KS games because the group I play with is really quite picky that the games look good. If it doesn’t look good and can’t get involved in the theme then they just won’t play or don’t have a good experience… I am more picky about the games I pick up though. My biggest criteria for a game are the time and the complexity. If it’s too long or too heavy it won’t get played.
A very timely video the same day Awaken Realms announces a new version of Castles of Burgundy that (probably) isn’t actually hideous. :)
Despite watching majority of you vids, I don't tend to think about Values that much. I basically look at the campaign, I glance through a rulebook or the rules and then I decide if the game will get to the table and if my game group will want to play it. This process tends to work for the most part, but I can't say that Fomo doesn't take hold of me on some projects.
That's awesome, I appreciate that people with different priorities and methods of backing will watch my Kickstarter videos
I feel like your points on Marvel Zombies and Marvel United could have better been summed up as: base pledge for CMON probably falls into that Good value/pledge, whereas all in tends to be a good pledge bad value. I would argue the $60 MU base pledge was a much better value than MZ base pledge, but certainly if you compare base MZ with all in MU1 and 2, that changes it substantially.
Just got Skulls of Sedlec yesterday based on your recommendation. What an awesome little filler game. Played it 4 times in like 40 minutes and we had a great time. So glad I got the expansions to change it up. I only back things that I know I am getting the best value now because I know I would overpay to get it later. I am in the good back/good value bucket. If I know I can get it later cheaper I just wait. Too many games to play anyway. I have made a couple mistakes, but for the most part had really good success.
Fairly new to KS and table top, only things I have backed are Darkest dungeon and xmen untied so I'm looking for some advice.
I've looking at alot of campaign style table tops and was wondering where Stormsunder would land in the good/bad value department? I noticed they still have preorders available and it ships next month and I'm thinking about doing the core pledge.
Welcome to the board gaming space! There's a lot of fun to be had. I'm also probably going to be snagging Stormsunder as a late pledge/preorder, but they are running behind. I think we'd be lucky to have Act 1 by the end of the year. You'll have until the summer to decide when they close the pledge manager. I'm waiting as long as possible to decide since I am comparing it to all the other similar projects that go live. I think the value will be fine. The mini's alone will probably be sought after for those that play tabletop RPG's. The main question is... will you have time to play it. That's my big question as well for these campaign style games.
@@jalsbrook AWESOME, I had no idea how long the Stormsunder preorders would be up for and was going to grab the core purely off of FOMO today lol. Not an exact date but gives me some time to sit on it.
Currently waiting on my all in pledges of Xmen untied and Darkest Dungeon(likely reselling this one). But I'm looking into my foray into a big campaign and I'm looking into Massive Darkness 2, Stormsunder or Oathsworn. Leaning hard on stormsunder though, Oathsworn I've heard fantastic things about but visually it's not going it for me like Stormsunder is.
It is so good that you make these video as well.
Kudos - because this is a conversation most here do not want to have....
That being said: I 100% don't agree with the criteria you use - I'd go to nominal value per item (what is build cost, what is extra cost on top of that) vs what you pay. Does this seem like value? (for instance as dumb as it is - 100 minis vs 100 cards is a big difference).
In a sense I'd also rather be paying for incredible components, brilliant inserts and artwork that pulls you (and of course balanced mechanics) in rather than expansions that only make sense if you play more than 30 missions or play the game over 80 times.... which, as you know, nearly no one really does.
Hence Frosthaven for me is a bad example: why pay $ 250 for Frosthaven when you can have a great experience with JOTL for 20-25% of that price?
Boggles my mind.... seriously
For marvel United.
The piece per game play works well for me.
I sold half of it and kept the rest which includes about 40 figures for free. So that’s worth it.
For x-men United. The base game is an amazing value with all those stretch goals. Once you get into all the expansions I agree with you. You’ll never play it enough.
Hey Alex, would you considering covering some lighter war games? I've recently come across some games like Down in Flames, Tank Duels and Warfighter WW2 which are fantastic. Totally get it if those kind of games just aren't your cup of tea, but I was of the same opinion recently until I started looking into them.
There are some games that I legitimately think are great but if there is a barrier of setup and heavy play I'm not gonna play them as much. Maracaibo is a great game I won't bother buying (unless hot sale) as I can't see getting it to the table as often as others.
Also at some point even Marvel Zombies crosses into the bad category . Too much money compared to hiw often your probably gonna play it.
I've done 2 kickstarter so far. The 2nd one just ended today. It doesn't make me want to do more. I learned a lot about KS culture during this one and y'all seem insane to me for doing this over and over and over. Both KS were very positive experiences, but this does not feel like how these products should be sold by big companies.
burguuuundy on gamefound!
I saw!!!
@@BoardGameCo Will be really interested to see which bucket you think this one falls into when we get the details on it. I'll be looking out for this one!
Street fighter the miniatures game. Super expensive, basic skirmish game with amazing minis. Got unmatched a bit later and now it's all we play. Probably played street fighter a dozen times so far.
I try to tell myself I'm a die hard fighting game fan, so it's okay 😂. That wasn't a gaming purchase, it was a collection purchase.
Damn straight
There's no reason to back kickstarter projects. Just buy released games. You get them quickly and they are tested by the market.
I'd like the patreon version of this where you berate your viewers hardcore to make better choices! ;)
Undaunted
Radlands
Monolooy deal
The mind
Are great value.
I wanted Gloomhaven. I wanted Scythe. I wanted Arydia. I think they are all very good games, but I decided to skip all of them. I have Tales of the Northlands: The Sagas of Noggin the Nog (minus the minis because they were very expensive). You probably haven't heard of Tales of the Northlands and probably won't see any copies on the secondary market in the US. I have Lunarchitects, which you may have heard of and there might be a copy or two floating around. These two games might not be objectively as good as the three I didn't get, but I don't ever regret the money I spent on them. Arkeis is in a grey area. I regretted not backing it on KS, then when it got hugely delayed I was happy I skipped it. When it finally is available I expect that it will be far more expensive than the KS price which sort of makes me regret not backing it again. But I have plenty of games and won't miss it in the long run, so I don't regret skipping it...
Let's see if we can put a number on it using a game with a limited lifespan.
An EXIT game costs $11 USD. Let's round this to $12 to make the math easy.
An EXIT game runs about 60-90 minutes, so let's go with 90, probably more average.
So $12 / 90 min = $4 per 30 minutes.
So if you think an EXIT game is a good value, you could say a game should cost $8 per hour (about on par with a movie ticket).
So if you spent $750 for Marvel Zombies, you will need to play for 94 hours to have an equal amount of value.
However, if you don't think an EXIT game is a good value, and you think it should only cost $X, then you can do your own math and figure out what you think a game should cost per hour.
The problem is that the hours / game (and therefore $/hr) is only one measure of value; and likely not a very critical or informative one IMO. I'd definitely pay more for an excellent one hour experience than a mediocre 2 hour experience so the biggest part of that value decision is not based on the duration of play. If you know you'll really like and enjoy the game then I think $/hour is a good metric to compare to other things like going to a movie or the symphony or whatever else you enjoy doing.
Can I have your Xia in the background? haha jk. A good value would be a reprint of Xia. Any word if they will reprint it?
🐐🥁👍
:)
Are you teaching teenagers about handling their finances? Weird video.
Good for those who need it I guess
Who exactly do you think buys board games?