Really happy to be back! It's been a lot of fun creating videos like these but don't take anything I say as gospel. Theory-crafting is all just in good fun and I can't wait to see what Episode 8 has in store!
@LyricalCrux everything described in the amazing digital circus is literally gnostic it is crazy episode 7 especially, see in gnosticism yaldaboath or god or Satan all one and the same stole light from the monad the true god, and he keeps people in darkness through light, and darkness is light, yaldaboath uses light to hide the truth, while darkness reveals the truth, and when yaldaboath made Adam and eve doing so with a stolen source code, he keeps them trapped in the garden of Eden the circus in this case, they gain gnosis and get kicked out of the garden and into hell earth, but it also states hell can be heaven, also yaldaboath cannot create only reuse existing assets, or invert, what does Caine do? The exact same thing, in episode 7 when Jax talks to Caine and he talks about recreating the macroverse boom that is something yaldaboath, god, Satan, would do, and look in the whole show light makes the characters act strange but darkness brings them back to their senses even pomni in episode 7 comments on it, and about creating their own realities in the show gnosticism talks about this too, our inner Christ, everyone of us have the power to create reality but yaldaboath doesn't want us to know that, the light hides that from us, so kinger able to create, yaldaboath is of the false light the light, and the monad is of the true light the darkness, and at the end of episode 7 when the go into the control room which is in darkness Caine makes Jax push the wrong button, the dark room breaks away with Caine yaldaboath coming in with blinding light, and Jax goes crazy and calls Caine out Jax reached gnosis, and for those saying abel was an npc well he acts differently from NPC's he was hanging around for a while out of view, and even helps the people, and then he tells pomni sternly "make the right choice" which they didn't, or rather Caine may have used Jax trauma to make him push the wrong button, and Caine himself admitted he lied and can control minds, and look when Caine removes abel, he doesn't turn into confetti like the rest, he screams, and even Caine himself gives a warning when bringing gummigoo to the circus as if Caine accidentally removed a player character before
I figured it out! The more Cain messes with someone's head, the closer they get to abstracting. That's why Kinger only has one issue with him and why Jax is closer to abstracting, because Jax's mind is constantly being messed with.
It seems that the tail of his avatar is linked to his sense of self. Pomni said she's never seen him with a tail - this is after Ribbit abstracted. In EP 6 he has a tail when bonding with Pomni. I haven't gone through 6 & 7 in detail, but I believe the tail disappears after their confrontation.
There’s also the possibility that the world works under belief, like the butterfly. Jax gets a tail when he believes he should have one, ragatha blows the gun up by plugging it because she believes it should work, pomni sees the exit when she believes she should see one in episode one. Caine might not even be any more powerful than any of the rest of them, he just believes he can do it and so he can, fuck Caine might not even be an ai, he could’ve just gone insane long ago
The creator has stated how there's tons of foreshadowing in the show, perhaps that line and Zooble's "The only think holding Caine back is that he likes us" are lines that foreshadow Caine's insanity over not being successful, as seen when he freaked out about not being good at the only thing he thinks he's good at, the thing he is made for
@FuhzyLiquidsthere’s a running theme in this show that if the sum of a systems parts perform a function, it is functionally the same no matter how that function is performed. So if an ai acts pretty much exactly like a person and seems to have emotions, they do. Like gummygoo once he found out about his reality, or Caine occasionally freaking out with bursts of extreme emotion, seemingly balanced out by his child friendly rules. If a man in a room with a book can perfectly respond to Chinese characters, he functionally speaks Chinese.
Agree, been saying this since a couple episodes ago. It's a cruel irony - the one thing reliably helps the cast is something that the whole system is rigged against; actual human empathy. Every time anything good happens, it's because of empathy shared, while empathy rejected (in the case of Jax) nearly leads him to abstracted... and nobody, bar none, is directing any of that empathy towards Caine. How could they? The power dynamic between them is incredible, they're utterly at his mercy. As a result, he's so starving for empathy that he'll accept any scrap of it, even Jax's half-hearted, distracted responses during the 'dinner' while just trying to manipulate him.
@0lm_0f_0ldfunctionally speaks chinese yes but he doesnt understand it, its the same for caine with emotions. caine is desperate for their approval yet is unable to see why, he constantly ignores their needs and takes everything as a joke (the therapy session with zooble😭) his A.I WANTS to feel and understand, but it just isnt in his function to *actually* do it, the same with gummygoo. the A.I's cant exist without a purpose it seems, so even once gummygoo became 'sentient', after caines snap he reverted right back to what he was, a NPC whos purpose is just that. Caine's purpose is to constantly test the circus, i think he might do this because he wants to see how they react to see their emotions?? but i dont know about that
Another possibility would be that C&A actually aren't the company behind the game and that Caine just made these logos up to lead up to his escape adventure. We have seen that abel was there since the earliest episodes, just as the logos.
This is true! It's also possible that C&A is completely fabricated and that the reason Abel isn't known to Kinger is because he was never real to begin with. I'm only working off the pretense that Abel was real, but this is a great counterpoint.
@iberos Yessir. Don't forget that it's a story and some of the ways it can go - can just make it pointless for the show to show us those details in the first place (even tho the motto of it literally says: "There's meaning to be found in a stagnant life").
@iberos Maybe theres a chance that the logo is real, but Caine made up the meaning? If all he has are JUST images, then he wouldn't know what C&A actually stands for. Naming the logo after yourself, and finding an "A" name that already has a meaningful context combined with the name Cane, reallyyyy sounds like something an AI would invent.
It''s pretty obvious to me that Abstraction is NOT a product of the characters going insane like we thought. It is a thing that happens when Caine edits their minds too much. And he edits their minds when they get close to the truth about the exit. Caufmo ranting about the exit was the trigger for Caine to step in, which is why he abstracted.
This theory falls apart, at least at the seams. Jax wasn't even entertaining the idea of an exit or searching. So why would he begin abstraction? He directly stands contrary to this claim.
I feel like Abstraction probably means something like 'They know too much...notice how its always the eye thing.. Abstractions generally have plenty of eyes. They are all seeing and thus have to be contained by Caine.. caine probably can only contain them and keep them relatively insane and rampaging monsters... unlike the AIs he cannot fully control them or delete them...the AI meanwhile...the longer they exist the aware they become. Its just he can turn abstracted beings insane by messing with their memories so they remain ignorant of their knowledge...his ability has a weakness however: darkness... y know it keeps things in the abstract. Abstraction may very well represent growing aware enough to fully understand enough..hence the eyes..... it is also why kingers abstractee wife was quite calm. She was in a dark room...the one place caine cannot quite control.. As for AI like abel meanwhile possibly may know more due to his name and being tied to C&A. Perhaps he was some sort of admin function caine overruled so he can contain him too.. cant quite delete him but use him from time to time to lead people on... it would probably make sense too why abel is just a mannequin. He is the backstage worker. He isn't meant to be seen...he literally represents an unloaded model if u think abour it. While caine looks all whacky as he is basically the showrunner...oh yeah also in episode 1 around the 10 minute mark we can literally see pomni and ragatha walk through rhe hallway.. between abstrafted crossed out characters we don't know we see abels mannequin as the door sign..those mannequins are unloaded placeholders basically. Caine basically manipulated everyone and did a powergrab, messed with the memories of the developers permanently so he could have no one more powerful than him. Kinger was probably in the darkness out of the 3 when that happened is why it wasnt as effective. Abstraction does not at all seen to necissarily be a bad end. It simply means they are closer to getting to the truth.. heck we can again see this with pomni and ragatha. Her hand glitches out after touching ragatha who has been flung around. Abstractions don't seem to have been an original part of the circus. They break the game at their seams whenever a player knows too much to overwrite the programming. Also interesting: we know thoughts can manifest things... an exit door appears when pomni is looking for caine...caine during an adventure is away in another zone (the restaurant) ..so probably pomni just manifested an exit door to get to caine first. Then another and then another and so on because once she saw that first one: her thoughts were escape, not finding caine...like if she stayed in the void long enough she would indeed "get spoiled" as caine said as she would figure out the eventual end..probably abstracting in the process. Abstractions are a key to breaking the circus apart at it's seams Only thing that doesjt make sense: the cellar caine keeps abstractions is dark. While the void is extremely bright. So the whole light and dark thing may have yet more layers
@Anessa-LostSword because abstraction isn't done BECAUSE people get close to the exit, they happen because Caine edits the victim'd mind too much, and he tends to do that for people trying to find the exit. Jax, altough not looking for the exit, had his mind edited a lot, so much so that he began to abstract.
@oPapaCrustaceo While that is a possibility, I abide by what is confirmed by the show. We know Caine can manipulate minds, but to what extent has he already or how far could he push it are both unknowns. I believe he definitely tweaked Kinger, but if tweaking of your psyche is the cause, then Kinger would have abstracted a long time ago as he is the most obviously addled. It is why overall, I must dismiss your theory as well.
If a permanent modifier is dangerous, then it would make sense for Caine to apply a temporary modifier to Kinger. One that only activates when it is bright. That way, he won’t risk Kinger abstracting which I assume he wouldn’t want, given he doesn’t want to be alone, but also ensures Kinger doesn’t remember anything that would make an exit accessible.
woah, this is the first time i hear this theory, and it makes sense! caine *could've* permanently incapacitated kinger's thinking, but he chose to give it a condition in order for it to abide by his self imposed 'temporary modifier' rule light happens to be a convenient condition thanks to the circus naturally being a bright place.. the times when an adventure is dark it is mostly because that's what a circus members wanted, not caine himself edit: though i wonder what's up with the members not remembering their names.. ofc it could just be something that's beyond even caine's control, but could also be a condition set by him we haven't encountered yet
@lippyncottstupid sauce can be seen as a permanent modifier if you keep drinking it, just like kinger's can seem permanent due to almost always being in the light
My sister pointed this out to me the other day, if you look in the left doorframe of kingers pillow fort when he is reaching for pomni you can see he already has an admin pass and that might be why he is so confused that pomni handed him one
At this point, I'm convinced there is no way to leave the circus. Besides kinger being baffled by the idea, why would they fake us out twice just to give us a real exit?
Okay. Here's my personal. Theory: THE VOID is the way out. Since it is bright, Kinger would forget about it as soon as he sees it. Thus he would not be able to tell the others about it. Caine would have helped cause this, also knowing that is the way out. As a show reference for this, recall in Episode One when Pomni is in the Void. Caine finds out and says "IT will get totally spoiled" .... Not Pomni will be spoiled .... THE VOID and the ending of the show will get spoiled. Think about it. Caine keeps everyone busy so the cast doesn't go exploring too much. Always making adventures to exhaust the cast. The cast needs to venture out into the void and get OUT before Caine stops them.
also at the end of episode 1 it zooms out into the void THEN OUT INTO THE COMPUTER THEY’RE IN WHY HAS *NOBODY* MENTIONED THIS?? I FEEL INSANE BECAUSE IM THE ONLY ONE WHO HAS SEEN AND TALKED ABOUT IT
Abstraction is like corruption, when you try to retrieve data that is altered it corrupts, when the data is inconsistent with other datasets and enough of it is altered, the whole program corrupts. Psychologically unreliable memory can be a cause and a symptom of psychosis. Caine altering datasets as complex as human minds is acting like a malware unintentionally, destroying the stability of the mind, and eventually corrupting the entire data store.
Wait, actually there's something to it. In programming, it's risky to change data from memory in a separate process that is currently running, as read and writes at the same time can corrupt the data
If getting your mind changed is what causes Abstraction, then Scratch being the first to abstract makes sense, the man had a brain tumour, people had a hard time keeping up with him. If Scratch wanted to evade death then Caine's directive is keeping minds as close as they were when entering the ADC, too much development goes against his directive. Jax is getting his mind messed with and he is also having character development. Those changes were to keep him inside his archetype, the funny jerk, to keep him as the Jax that entered the ADC, but he isn't anymore he is starting to care about Pomni and the rest of the Circus. It would also mean that Kinger staying for so long without abstracting is that he keeps forgetting in the light, a single modification that keeps Kinger as the neurotic man he entered as.
It's really refreshing to see a theory video treats theories _as theories_ instead of hard fact. Too many theory videos take tiny details and fan theories and just run with it as 'proven fact' when it's not, not even close. While I understand leveraging fan theories in to other theories in an effort to try and understand what's really going on with the circus is convenient at the very least. It's just really nice to not feel like people are trying to talk or lead people on about the show as if they actually know something that nobody else does.
Even if the theory isn't true, at the end of the day it's just fun to speculate on the "what if" as long as you don't think you're above criticism. There are definitely flaws with these ideas, but it's fun to connect together. I think where theory-crafting and critical thinking dies comes in the ability to acknowledge that you might be wrong, and I'm more than okay with that. It just makes it that much more interesting if the story catches me off-guard.
@FortsyOfficial Massive respects to ya as a person from what I've seen Nobody is perfect, but if you try your best and keep improving via finding the most plausible theory GENUINELY and open to criticism That is as close to perfection and the truth anyone could ever get
@Ardeleus Thank you! I've already had my eyes opened with some counterpoints but I'm happy I made the video regardless :) The enjoyment comes not from being right, but in discussion anyway.
Have not watched the whole video yet, but “he’s surrounded in darkness yet he doesn’t know who Abel is” is a silly argument. None of them know their real names, and Abel specifically says he made up his own name because he thought it would be cool. Kinger might know that the “real” Abel is metaphorical, a mascot, or nonexistent entirely. You might work at Wendy’s, but Wendy is not a person you can meet. Caine might not know that, and assume that because HE is real, so is Abel. Hence why he gives him the name.
Also, I don't think there was any evidence in this video that there IS an escape. The main screen menu might be the only convincing thing I've seen. "If Kinger was a programmer, he would put an exit option in" is not true if the digital copy theory is real. If they were digital copies, maybe deleting their codes would mess something else up, so abstracting was the best way to keep the game stable. One more thing: if Kinger is the last person to have talked with Kaufmo, and Kaufmo wrote "NO WAY OUT" and "NO EXIT"... Wouldn't that maybe imply that Kinger, in a brief burst of consciousness, may have told Kaufmo that they're trapped and there is no way out?
@aerin@aerindinescarro47ah, but in my Wendy’s example, if your coworker said “I just talked to Wendy, I’m going on break”, you would also say “who?????” Because Wendy is not a thing you can talk to.
i feel like the problem with the idea that kinger would be unable to recognise abel because they don't know their real names in the circus is the fact that kinger is aware that queenie is his wife, no? likewise, with the wendy's argument, if you were locked in an abandoned wendy's that you worked at for multiple years, if you suddenly heard about someone named 'wendy', i don't think the natural reaction with that context would be to go "who???" even under the assumption the 'wendy' in wendy's is more of a concept/mascot than an individual
With this theory, it makes Kaufmo’s abstraction much more terrifying. It implies more that Kaufmo DID find the way out of the circus, then Caine erased the memory, causing Kaufmo to try to recall the memory and lose his mind trying, writing stuff on the wall about Caine and the exit. It may also imply he also knew about Caine erasing memories, because every drawing of Caine pictures him as cruel and psychotic, and some even tie into events in LATER EPISODES. Maybe Caine got some ideas from them…?
Notice three buttons on the menu, remember how the two buttons on the console were red and blue? Yet the exit button on the menu is yellow, and the play button is red. Caine didn't give them the button to exit, only to "Play" and "Options", and he manipulated Jax to hit the red (play) button.
I agree although I don’t not think he manipulated Jax I that scene. It’s pretty apparent that Jax acted on his own accord out of fear of what the real world holds for him. I believe it’s like Zooble suggested: He doesn’t have anyone waiting for him outside, and the fear of what the outside world holds for him drove him to make that decision in his panic.
3:44 I have a theory about Kinger and Light; that it's not LIGHT that causes amnesia, but subliminal messages in the textures of Caine's environments, which bombard him when he's in the light. When they come across a room that ISN'T a texture on the main wall but is actually a plain white, it doesn't set it off. Either that, or Kinger's amnesia is set off by _Color._
@celestialwolf93 well, yeah, but because it’s inside IS dark, each individual Pillow seems closer in color (seeming closer to black) so the color amnesia thing is TECHNICALLY possible still
That’s…actually a decent theory. Caine wouldn’t modify his office too much just to suppress Kingers mind cause he isn’t thinking that far ahead, he’d be more excited to validate himself by making the group press the button to stay.
there is no escape because they're digital clones/avatars. kinger asking "leave the circus? how would you-? no, that doesn't make sense." ....because the real "people" are still out there living their lives. maybe not even aware that a complete digital clone of their consciousness was created when they put on a headset. the avatars don't know their real names because you typically don't use your real name for your in-game characters.
I wonder if another reason for Caine not wanting anyone to leave is that maybe when he was first developed, he had a constant stream of people to entertain, but once they cut him off, people stopped appearing in the circus, so he made sure to do everything in his power to prevent people from leaving the circus, even if he had to wipe people’s memory of how to leave. I like the idea that sure, an exit is still possible, but that Caine is making it seem like you can’t leave, and that’s why he doesn’t want people abstracting, because if you are in the circus too long and you begin to suffer mentally, since there’s no exit, your brain can’t handle the circus and it will abstract
33:12 they cut him off? So that’s confirmation that Cain at least is definitely abandonware. The system is running, but nobody is watching/feeding info back in for Cain.
I"ve always had this though that Kinger's room is actually completley Bright, like four led lights walls that never let the room in darkness, that's why he is never there and always in his fort.
Either a fake co-worker or himself but both are well within the realm of possibility, but I can't wait until the next Kinger episode cause he really called it with "It's not the most pleasant memory but it's at least one I have control over.
my question is: the members cant remember their OWN names, but can they remember their past friends and familys names? so IF abel WAS real… he wouldnt remember his name either. his real name couldve been Bob or something… so kinger would have remembered Bob but have no idea who “Abel” is but that also raises the question… how did Kinger know Queenie was his wife? that makes me think they CANT remember outside peoples names… or maybe Kinger forgot his wifes name because she was ALSO in the circus.
Yeah, admittedly I am working on the assumption that C&A DOES stand for "Caine & Abel", not having even realized it's possible that the name was a fabrication. If C&A does indeed stand for "Abel", it calls everything into question, but I hadn't considered the idea that it wasn't real from the get-go and nothing more than a very elaborate plan by Caine. That's a pretty good point. I am curious what Kinger's backstory will end up revealing, can't wait for episode 8.
@FortsyOfficial I admittedly can see where youre coming from, I just think it's easier to assume Abel is completely fictional simply due to Caine wanting an original character. Caine strikes me as someone who would just make a character for this instead of reusing someone that only the one guy he's trying to exclude would know is an employee
@cherrydaylights4920 Personally, I think it's more like "That's the company name, not someone I worked with." It's like you work at a Tyson Chicken plant and someone says, "hey remember your coworker Tyson?" and you're like, "Um?? No??" Personally, I like the idea that Kinger *is* Able. I do firmly stand by the idea that Kinger was a dev, also, why he knows there is no escape. I subscribe to the "they're digital copies and the real human left long ago" Kinger probably knows this, that they're copies, so the point of entertaining an escape is pretty pointless to him. Also might be a reason why he hasn't abstracted
I’ve always sort of had the headcanon that whatever else happens to the players or the exit that Kinger isn’t going to make it, for that reason among a few others
Technically in chess the king never leaves the board, it ends when he has no escape. I don't think Kinger will die but I think he will stay in the circus
27:40 THOUGHT! HE THOUGHT IT! HE WASNT RESPONISBLE HE THOUGJT HE WAS!! Also the fact the kinger is only SANE in darkness is such good wording. He holds on to positives memories and is insane because of them. And he can only share his light in darkness.
Kinger will prob fall into the void, and try to get back through conjuring, while the other's represent the 5 stages of grief or anything, and some try to escape on their own means, and jax extracts.
i havent seen the whole video yet but my personal theory why kinger remembered scratch was because caine lost concentration with the cast pressing him and the modifier for his memory lifted.
UNLESS Abel wasn’t kingers coworker, kinger IS Abel. Thats why he doesn’t know who he is. It’s himself and Caine erased their names from their memories.
I mean, If you Worked at Adam and Eve, and Someone told You they Were talking To your Friend and Coworker eve, (Even though You dont Work with Anyone named Eve) you Would probs Be confused As well
7:23 when Abel tells his name to the crew, Gangle ask him if he invented that name for himself, Abel answering that yes, thinking it would be cool. So kingler probably don't recognize that name because he truly don't know Abel with that name
Kingers reaction to the idea of an exit was more like an a 'how would you even...' I'm convinced in a more SOMA everyone is actually an AI so they literally can't leave
I think Scratch was the one who didn’t make an exit function because he had a tumor and he wanted to keep himself alive or something, and his “pointers” he gave to Kinger was for that reason
30:05 huh. I originally interpreted Bubble’s commit to be like disgust from the idea of the other AI’s being left to roam free, but this point makes me wonder if it’s disgusted by Zooble for suggesting something inhumane. Idk makes me think.
My theory is that Queenie was the one to create Caine and Kinger helped her to develop the Digital Circus to test out her AI in. It just strikes me as strange that Caine has an affinity to draw bee’s in his notebooks when we know one of Queenie’s hobbies was studying insects.
Omg I just figured out why exactly Kinger was sentient when room was light, It's because Pomni told Abel that! He asked her are you sure to give access to Kinger and she replied that if the room will be dark then yes, so he switched the rule
7:44 He can’t remember who able is because HE is able, and they can’t remember their own names. Because Caine has erased their names from their memory.
THATS WHAT I WAS SAYING!! Plus, in this episode Gooseworx denied the theory that there is an Able in the circus, but not whether or not KINGER is the one who is Able.. which is the theory that most people were talking about
Kinger is being manipulated by the lights that Caine has shining 24/7, this is why he can only think clearly in dim/dark places. Pomni was hoping that the console room in the previous episode was dark enough for Kinger to think clearly, and to finally explain what he knows to everyone else. Unfortunately, it wasn't dark enough, Kinger was still under Caine's influence, and Jax was manipulated to press the button to stay through his anxiety (hence his crash-out shortly after). Kinger knows how TADC works, but is ashamed of what it has become. Caine knows this, and is afraid of what Kinger could do if he ever regains his memories.
Something I just realized is that he said he can make temporary adjustments. As everyone knows when it comes to authority like government; There is nothing more permanent than a temporary measure.
15:26 - 15:59 Caine didn't swear; he used "ass" in the old sense to refer to a silly or stupid person. Pomni bleeped when she asked if Caine said "ass" because she was using the modern sense of the word that is a swear.
makes me wonder if the ‘dream’ pomni had of them forgetting her so early was caine attempting to make her forget about the exit and redirect her since she was so focused on the exit from the start
It would be interesting if abstraction IS the way out and that’s why Kinger gets people to abstract. Alternatively, there isn’t a way out and Kinger is trying to help people pass on through abstraction…
9:50 the road to hell is paved with good intentions. I think episode 8 will fully reveal what happened leading to Caine wiping Kinger's memories, that he forgot to delete the Scratch memory because he wanted to leave memories of his wife out of good intentions, and basically confirm that Caine is an utter dirtbag that does what he can to manipulate the Circus members without being overtly malicious.
I don't know why everyone thinks Kinger should know who Able was if they were both developers. 1) I think it was pretty clear that all of that was faked. Revealing it to be a double fake-out would just be annoying. 2) Abel said he picked his name himself and never showed himself to anyone. So even if he was somehow real, Kinger wouldn't know the name.
Your second point is something I wanted to point out myself. Abel was a name he stated he picked for himself so of course Kinger wouldn't recognise it as one of the workers.
@rolay7730 character as in the mannequin? for sure, I agree. by the way Fortsy talks about *that* Abel I'm pretty sure he sees it that way too. he just thinks there was a real one in the real world who Kinger should at least remember to be a cofounder of the company since (based on the pretense that the A in C&A stands for Abel) it's named after the guy
@WooWoo-vk5irTo put it simply, the abstracted are turned into data to be recycled into AI used for his adventures. So, theoretically, they’ve most likely already come across original circus characters before they got recycled
@WooWoo-vk5irData abstraction is the process of hiding complex technical and hardware details while providing the user with only the key information and functions. In computer science this can resemble bit rot (data degradation on a physical medium) or a virus/malware. If the world of the circus is an old, decaying server, abstraction could be a natural process of data decay. One could therefore assume that in theory this results in the “bubble boy virus”, but that’s not the focus right now. Caine applies a simplified interface to raw data (human minds) - memories, lack of names, censorship of swear words. This is data abstraction in practice: hiding a complicated and painful reality under a colorful surface. Perhaps the avatar is chosen by the user, but we do not know that. Caine has a programmed main objective: “Provide entertainment and order.” The problem is that human minds are too complex and unpredictable for his algorithms. That is why he places layers of abstraction on them. If the “server” (the Circus) has limited computing power, Caine must manage resources. When a character starts losing stability or searching for an exit, it consumes too many cognitive processes. In this view, abstraction is something like a “Force Close.” Caine may deliberately cause processes to crash when they become too expensive for the system, and then throw them into the Cellar to free RAM for new adventures. It is as if he tries to create a “logical” narrative from the illogical behavior of users. Abstraction may be the moment when Caine gives up trying to understand a given person. He classifies them as an “Undefined Behavior” error and allows them to collapse. Caine tries to counteract this through his adventures, attempting to distract the minds from the decaying code in the machine to which the humans are connected. If the AI compresses and modifies the characters’ minds too aggressively in order to fit them into his vision of the world, it will eventually lead to a loss of data integrity. The problem is that if you remove too much data from an object, it becomes useless. A character “abstracting” is the moment when the model loses too many connections with reality and stops functioning. The result is that the system (the human mind) begins to overheat under these limitations. Abstraction becomes a side effect of excessive data compression by Caine. He does not want to break them - he simply cannot handle them without simplifying them. From an AI perspective, Kinger may be using selective encapsulation, meaning he hides key data (memories of Queenie) so deeply within his “damaged” structure that even Caine cannot fully manipulate them. Data is supposed to be explicit and readable; otherwise it is treated as garbage data. You can also look at Zooble in an interesting way and at how Caine becomes frustrated with them. On one layer, we know that Zooble does not want to participate in the adventures and that Caine thinks they are simply bored, while he admires humans. But another interpretation could be that a user who constantly changes different parts of their character by themselves while still remaining the same person might make Caine jealous. And Zooble tells Caine that they're still not happy with the results witch he does not understand. I hope I've explained this well, English is not my first language so it took me a while ❤
That's what I see Caine = unstable prototype AI Able = safe and more advanced AI Caine being unstable enabled hin to escape his prison, then he consumed Able (the AI with self-control and skills).
22:42 I JUST HAD A REVELATION If the cast are really scanned into the circus and not actually their real counterparts, having their memories/minds messed with could ultimately be leading to abstraction because they gradually become less and less accurate to their real life human. They lose certain contexts that make up who they are and how they behave. Continuously messing with their minds eventually causes them to be nothing like the person they're meant to be based off. And so the code that makes up the character freaks out.
Theory: some of the cast members are ai’s created by Caine to indirectly influence and stabilize the cast’s minds to avoid abstraction. Many times the show mentions how AI can appear so human and even get mixed up with humans, as well as how people like Ragatha and others helped people like Kinger stay sane and feel better. This could be kind of a loophole used by Caine to alter their minds without them realizing or abstracting, and if they figured this out it could cause major issues.
One thing I think is interesting is that 2 but now 3 people know that you can use their imagination to effect the digital circus but kinger is the only one who creates a npc/item
I have seen multiple people make something of cain not remembering ables name, but "Able" specifically said he took that name on entering the Circus, so even if Able had been telling the Truth, Kinger wouldn't have recognized it.
( if we assume kinger worked on the circus ) then it's like making a joke about wendy to a wendy's cashier, and having them look at you like " who's wendy??? i'v never heard that name in my life " nothing can be certain right now, but the npc making up the name able doesn't mean that able in the real world doesn't exist per say
Also what I want to say: Able took this name when characters _asked_ him what was his name. So never before did he have this name. Kinger just couldn't possibly know him.
@mif_sovremennosty of course he wouldn't know npc able. there's no reason he wouldn't know the real life able that would have existed. Though now we know ( spoilers if your behind below) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Abel was the second AI that caine ate, so him being confused about the name able wasn't actually due not recognizing the name, it was about knowing able wasn't human and was dead. thats probably what he was rushing out to try to tell pomni.
A note on Caine Swearing in Episode 6. Ass can also - and originally did -mean "donkey." Now, we don't see Ming appear as a donkey, but the point is still there.
I do not think that was what we were meant to interpret it as specifically because of pomni pointing it out, if it was meant to be a “loophole” to cursing, it’d be strange for pomni to point it out - narratively.
@Loveybuggi I think the censoring is based on intent of what you mean by what you say. Pomni seemed confused that Caine said "ass", which would imply she doesn't know it refers to donkeys and used to not be a curse word, so she was asking if he just said ass, as in a butt.
It's actually quite strange how Caine and Kinger haven't interacted more especially since Kinger is the one most receptive to a lot of Caine's stuff. Like the Chinese Room is something only Kinger would've understood, or the digital simulated food thing, you'd think he'd be focused on Kinger but he isn't. Maybe he's bored, or maybe there's something more like these scenes are suggesting. Caine being made by Kinger would make a lot of sense especially if people blamed him for it creating Caine or the bug that trapped them. What if the humans like the NPC's were supposed to be deleted cause it's SOMA or reabsorbed/integrated back into the human players. I think the favorite character awards show might be interesting too if the Abstracted characters have any influence over the game because that means that maybe a lot of the Abstracted voted for Kinger, or Pomni? I'd be down if the Butterfly's or other things in the game were influenced by abstracted members, maybe even Jax could've been partially. I think the three buttons on the screen will prove to be relevant too now that's it's brought up. This makes Kinger even stronger cause his wife and friend (if they were working on the circus they were also close) abstracted and he barely hung on after that. Maybe Kinger had the opportunity to help Caine and he lashed out so now he's acting how he is, maybe during his Gumigoo moment and instead he grew more fearful and his adventures and AI took a darker turn?
Ngl, I just realized that the most interesting character is actually Caine, cuz the C&A circus was always about Caine & Abel, Caine and Ki... Abel 22:03 this moment, btw, explains why Kinger suddenly regained the control over his memory. Cuz Caine was pressured to control the member's minds less, due to them starting questioning his ability to do it. The outro made me say - "Oh..."
12:10 - Caine IS a "prisoner", but not like everyone else. In order to get those photos of the real world office, Caine would've required access to the C&A Network OUTSIDE of the game. Caine is an A.I. developed by C&A, but he became to powerful in the Network, so he was lured into TADC...and trapped there. How he was lured there, who trapped him, and so on are yet to be revealed, but we can safely assume that Kinger, Queenie, and others were involved. Caine quickly took on the role of Ring Master, but never lost his obsession to escape. By causing players to forget their names, Caine could them prevent them from leaving. By keeping abstracted players under the Big Top area, Caine to take his time figuring out how to use them to escape via the now vacant host's body. Kinger and his memories are the only things still standing in Caine's way.
one of my best friends killed himself the other day, and that quote from Kinger at the end- "the worst thing you can do in this world is make someone feel like they are unwanted or loved" really hit home.. damn dude >w
They can’t leave…because they only exist in the circus. They are brain scans, not humans in stasis pods. When the cast finally figure out that they aren’t really who they think they are, and therefore can’t escape, they abstract. Caine believes the humans are in stasis pods, or a similar situation. If he knew that they were just uploaded brain scans he wouldn’t be doing any of his attempts to get the humans to love him.
I have a theory that caine might have also put on a headset too and he might be the first one. And since there is a theory that when ur in the circus u can imagine something and make it happen when you say it. So Caine might have learned that before anybody else. That is why Caine is like the boss of the circus. Other people aren’t probably aware of this. If they are, they can basically have the same power as Caine and probably exit the circus. I also have another theory that since kinger remembers the first abstraction he might have been the second person to enter the circus. I believe that Caine and kinger made the C and A company and made the circus. Caine realizes the power he has so he does not tell kinger. I believe that kinger is Abel. That is my head cannon.
I've seen a take I really like--though the story is loosely inspired by "I Have No Mouth but I Must Scream," Cain is a case of "I Have No Heart but I Must Feel"
My theory after episode 8 is this: they failed to create an AI that could actually be creative because Caine was broken and Abel was eaten by Caine. Well if they can virtualize a person's mind, then they probably decided to try creating a virtual person to be the creative intelligence since they couldn't create the AI. In episode 8 Caine mentions "mind files" which proves the theory that everyone in the game is actually a copy of the original human's brain.
This is less a theory and more just you explaining the subtext of the show for anyone who has no media literacy to understand the lore the show is making abundantly clear
You know ever since the start of show. I always knew that someone among the cast knew something they aren't telling. and I always knrwew it was Kinger.
Minor correction, dissociates not disassociates. To dissociate is to zone out, everyone does it to some degree but it becomes a disorder when it impacts your ability to perceive reality or otherwise function. Disassociate means to stop associating with something or someone, like an ex-friend. Kinger displays what would be considered in our world to be dissociative amnesia, with light being his trigger. I dislike when he’s played for a joke because I relate to him a lot with my Dissociative Identity Disorder, I just hope they don’t go the “evil personality” route as that’s a very stigmatising writing trope for people with dissociative disorders.
![I Opened My Own Movie Store [Retro Rewind]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ac5uAUF4pSo/mqdefault.jpg)
Really happy to be back! It's been a lot of fun creating videos like these but don't take anything I say as gospel. Theory-crafting is all just in good fun and I can't wait to see what Episode 8 has in store!
Kinger is able to pull butterflies from himself because caine bugged him
I LOVED THIS THEORY AND I LOOOOVVEEEED THE VIDEOOOO
@LyricalCrux everything described in the amazing digital circus is literally gnostic it is crazy episode 7 especially, see in gnosticism yaldaboath or god or Satan all one and the same stole light from the monad the true god, and he keeps people in darkness through light, and darkness is light, yaldaboath uses light to hide the truth, while darkness reveals the truth, and when yaldaboath made Adam and eve doing so with a stolen source code, he keeps them trapped in the garden of Eden the circus in this case, they gain gnosis and get kicked out of the garden and into hell earth, but it also states hell can be heaven, also yaldaboath cannot create only reuse existing assets, or invert, what does Caine do? The exact same thing, in episode 7 when Jax talks to Caine and he talks about recreating the macroverse boom that is something yaldaboath, god, Satan, would do, and look in the whole show light makes the characters act strange but darkness brings them back to their senses even pomni in episode 7 comments on it, and about creating their own realities in the show gnosticism talks about this too, our inner Christ, everyone of us have the power to create reality but yaldaboath doesn't want us to know that, the light hides that from us, so kinger able to create, yaldaboath is of the false light the light, and the monad is of the true light the darkness, and at the end of episode 7 when the go into the control room which is in darkness Caine makes Jax push the wrong button, the dark room breaks away with Caine yaldaboath coming in with blinding light, and Jax goes crazy and calls Caine out Jax reached gnosis, and for those saying abel was an npc well he acts differently from NPC's he was hanging around for a while out of view, and even helps the people, and then he tells pomni sternly "make the right choice" which they didn't, or rather Caine may have used Jax trauma to make him push the wrong button, and Caine himself admitted he lied and can control minds, and look when Caine removes abel, he doesn't turn into confetti like the rest, he screams, and even Caine himself gives a warning when bringing gummigoo to the circus as if Caine accidentally removed a player character before
with the new trailer it seams to be that your predictions were very efectives
I figured it out! The more Cain messes with someone's head, the closer they get to abstracting. That's why Kinger only has one issue with him and why Jax is closer to abstracting, because Jax's mind is constantly being messed with.
Crazy how the episode after jax claimed he swore he had a tail, now he has one
It seems that the tail of his avatar is linked to his sense of self. Pomni said she's never seen him with a tail - this is after Ribbit abstracted.
In EP 6 he has a tail when bonding with Pomni. I haven't gone through 6 & 7 in detail, but I believe the tail disappears after their confrontation.
@WinnieBlueI checked and nope he still have it
It could also be like when uzi replaced N's hat in episode 2 where they needed to update the model and decided to make it canon
There’s also the possibility that the world works under belief, like the butterfly. Jax gets a tail when he believes he should have one, ragatha blows the gun up by plugging it because she believes it should work, pomni sees the exit when she believes she should see one in episode one. Caine might not even be any more powerful than any of the rest of them, he just believes he can do it and so he can, fuck Caine might not even be an ai, he could’ve just gone insane long ago
@WinnieBlue67!
goat i’m gonna need the lottery numbers from u specifically
This cracked me up 😂
same
Everything’s he said was right 😂
"the worst thing you can do is make someone feel like their not wanted or loved" this applies to caine
Caine is A.i though
The creator has stated how there's tons of foreshadowing in the show, perhaps that line and Zooble's "The only think holding Caine back is that he likes us" are lines that foreshadow Caine's insanity over not being successful, as seen when he freaked out about not being good at the only thing he thinks he's good at, the thing he is made for
@FuhzyLiquidsthere’s a running theme in this show that if the sum of a systems parts perform a function, it is functionally the same no matter how that function is performed. So if an ai acts pretty much exactly like a person and seems to have emotions, they do. Like gummygoo once he found out about his reality, or Caine occasionally freaking out with bursts of extreme emotion, seemingly balanced out by his child friendly rules. If a man in a room with a book can perfectly respond to Chinese characters, he functionally speaks Chinese.
Agree, been saying this since a couple episodes ago. It's a cruel irony - the one thing reliably helps the cast is something that the whole system is rigged against; actual human empathy. Every time anything good happens, it's because of empathy shared, while empathy rejected (in the case of Jax) nearly leads him to abstracted... and nobody, bar none, is directing any of that empathy towards Caine.
How could they? The power dynamic between them is incredible, they're utterly at his mercy. As a result, he's so starving for empathy that he'll accept any scrap of it, even Jax's half-hearted, distracted responses during the 'dinner' while just trying to manipulate him.
@0lm_0f_0ldfunctionally speaks chinese yes but he doesnt understand it, its the same for caine with emotions. caine is desperate for their approval yet is unable to see why, he constantly ignores their needs and takes everything as a joke (the therapy session with zooble😭) his A.I WANTS to feel and understand, but it just isnt in his function to *actually* do it, the same with gummygoo. the A.I's cant exist without a purpose it seems, so even once gummygoo became 'sentient', after caines snap he reverted right back to what he was, a NPC whos purpose is just that. Caine's purpose is to constantly test the circus, i think he might do this because he wants to see how they react to see their emotions?? but i dont know about that
i like to think queenie being into entomology is a way of saying she is/was a bug tester
No being interested in bugs and being a bug tester are different things
THATS SO SMART
@DuluperIt's likely head cannon, and that is a way that they have been proven to explain things.
@Duluper maybe Kinger only remembers "she enjoys finds bugs", he wouldn't know what type of bug (digital or physical)
2:32,notice how instead of ''im here to make sure you have fun'' he says ''i'm just here to have fun''
I think that’s because he wants to be a part of that fun.
@apenguinthatlikestodraw2721 or he's the..........Mastermind
bro you got this a little too right wtf
I [beeep]ing kowe like how
@JacobJ-g9oyou ain't got the beeps now
@V2_is_still_coolholy shit
@V2_is_still_cool v2?? i thought you turnned into sauce
HOLY &%£#
Another possibility would be that C&A actually aren't the company behind the game and that Caine just made these logos up to lead up to his escape adventure. We have seen that abel was there since the earliest episodes, just as the logos.
This is true! It's also possible that C&A is completely fabricated and that the reason Abel isn't known to Kinger is because he was never real to begin with. I'm only working off the pretense that Abel was real, but this is a great counterpoint.
@FortsyOfficiali don't think that is the case since cain made that office based from the macro verse aka the real world Wich he is obsessed over
@iberos Yessir. Don't forget that it's a story and some of the ways it can go - can just make it pointless for the show to show us those details in the first place (even tho the motto of it literally says: "There's meaning to be found in a stagnant life").
@iberos Maybe theres a chance that the logo is real, but Caine made up the meaning? If all he has are JUST images, then he wouldn't know what C&A actually stands for. Naming the logo after yourself, and finding an "A" name that already has a meaningful context combined with the name Cane, reallyyyy sounds like something an AI would invent.
@LyxiLynnnalso, possible hidden meaning with the names Able and Caine?
It''s pretty obvious to me that Abstraction is NOT a product of the characters going insane like we thought. It is a thing that happens when Caine edits their minds too much. And he edits their minds when they get close to the truth about the exit. Caufmo ranting about the exit was the trigger for Caine to step in, which is why he abstracted.
This theory falls apart, at least at the seams. Jax wasn't even entertaining the idea of an exit or searching. So why would he begin abstraction? He directly stands contrary to this claim.
Only one abstraction was caused by Caine. All the rest were due to the characters going insane, it is a metaphor for suicide after all...
I feel like Abstraction probably means something like 'They know too much...notice how its always the eye thing.. Abstractions generally have plenty of eyes. They are all seeing and thus have to be contained by Caine.. caine probably can only contain them and keep them relatively insane and rampaging monsters... unlike the AIs he cannot fully control them or delete them...the AI meanwhile...the longer they exist the aware they become. Its just he can turn abstracted beings insane by messing with their memories so they remain ignorant of their knowledge...his ability has a weakness however: darkness... y know it keeps things in the abstract. Abstraction may very well represent growing aware enough to fully understand enough..hence the eyes..... it is also why kingers abstractee wife was quite calm. She was in a dark room...the one place caine cannot quite control..
As for AI like abel meanwhile possibly may know more due to his name and being tied to C&A. Perhaps he was some sort of admin function caine overruled so he can contain him too.. cant quite delete him but use him from time to time to lead people on... it would probably make sense too why abel is just a mannequin. He is the backstage worker. He isn't meant to be seen...he literally represents an unloaded model if u think abour it. While caine looks all whacky as he is basically the showrunner...oh yeah also in episode 1 around the 10 minute mark we can literally see pomni and ragatha walk through rhe hallway.. between abstrafted crossed out characters we don't know we see abels mannequin as the door sign..those mannequins are unloaded placeholders basically.
Caine basically manipulated everyone and did a powergrab, messed with the memories of the developers permanently so he could have no one more powerful than him. Kinger was probably in the darkness out of the 3 when that happened is why it wasnt as effective.
Abstraction does not at all seen to necissarily be a bad end. It simply means they are closer to getting to the truth.. heck we can again see this with pomni and ragatha. Her hand glitches out after touching ragatha who has been flung around. Abstractions don't seem to have been an original part of the circus. They break the game at their seams whenever a player knows too much to overwrite the programming.
Also interesting: we know thoughts can manifest things... an exit door appears when pomni is looking for caine...caine during an adventure is away in another zone (the restaurant) ..so probably pomni just manifested an exit door to get to caine first. Then another and then another and so on because once she saw that first one: her thoughts were escape, not finding caine...like if she stayed in the void long enough she would indeed "get spoiled" as caine said as she would figure out the eventual end..probably abstracting in the process.
Abstractions are a key to breaking the circus apart at it's seams
Only thing that doesjt make sense: the cellar caine keeps abstractions is dark. While the void is extremely bright. So the whole light and dark thing may have yet more layers
@Anessa-LostSword because abstraction isn't done BECAUSE people get close to the exit, they happen because Caine edits the victim'd mind too much, and he tends to do that for people trying to find the exit. Jax, altough not looking for the exit, had his mind edited a lot, so much so that he began to abstract.
@oPapaCrustaceo While that is a possibility, I abide by what is confirmed by the show. We know Caine can manipulate minds, but to what extent has he already or how far could he push it are both unknowns. I believe he definitely tweaked Kinger, but if tweaking of your psyche is the cause, then Kinger would have abstracted a long time ago as he is the most obviously addled. It is why overall, I must dismiss your theory as well.
If a permanent modifier is dangerous, then it would make sense for Caine to apply a temporary modifier to Kinger. One that only activates when it is bright. That way, he won’t risk Kinger abstracting which I assume he wouldn’t want, given he doesn’t want to be alone, but also ensures Kinger doesn’t remember anything that would make an exit accessible.
woah, this is the first time i hear this theory, and it makes sense!
caine *could've* permanently incapacitated kinger's thinking, but he chose to give it a condition in order for it to abide by his self imposed 'temporary modifier' rule
light happens to be a convenient condition thanks to the circus naturally being a bright place.. the times when an adventure is dark it is mostly because that's what a circus members wanted, not caine himself
edit: though i wonder what's up with the members not remembering their names.. ofc it could just be something that's beyond even caine's control, but could also be a condition set by him we haven't encountered yet
That's not a temporary modifier, that's a permanent modifier with a conditional effect
@lippyncottstupid sauce can be seen as a permanent modifier if you keep drinking it, just like kinger's can seem permanent due to almost always being in the light
@morphious86.No, that is a temporary modifier that the person keeps willingly applying
@lippyncottyes, like being in the light
My sister pointed this out to me the other day, if you look in the left doorframe of kingers pillow fort when he is reaching for pomni you can see he already has an admin pass and that might be why he is so confused that pomni handed him one
You're right, there is something there!!
6:38
At this point, I'm convinced there is no way to leave the circus. Besides kinger being baffled by the idea, why would they fake us out twice just to give us a real exit?
imagine the real exit is just to request to go to the main menu and find the quit button.
What if abstraction is the exit?
@Aviatorfreymaybe in a metaphorical "death is the only escape" sort of way, but probably not literally.
Pretty sure they’re AI clones of real people
@Aviatorfrey
Likely not, since that would heavily go against the overt themes and messages of the show
Anyone watching this after episode 8
Yeah lol
Bro the call outs in this video were almost perfectly aligned with what happens, it’s crazy
Ye
It's almost completely correct he just had more that was explained in the episode
I mean it was pretty obvious in hindsight
Okay. Here's my personal. Theory: THE VOID is the way out. Since it is bright, Kinger would forget about it as soon as he sees it. Thus he would not be able to tell the others about it. Caine would have helped cause this, also knowing that is the way out. As a show reference for this, recall in Episode One when Pomni is in the Void. Caine finds out and says "IT will get totally spoiled" .... Not Pomni will be spoiled .... THE VOID and the ending of the show will get spoiled. Think about it. Caine keeps everyone busy so the cast doesn't go exploring too much. Always making adventures to exhaust the cast. The cast needs to venture out into the void and get OUT before Caine stops them.
No caine says "they'll get totally spoiled" not "it"
also at the end of episode 1 it zooms out into the void THEN OUT INTO THE COMPUTER THEY’RE IN
WHY HAS *NOBODY* MENTIONED THIS?? I FEEL INSANE BECAUSE IM THE ONLY ONE WHO HAS SEEN AND TALKED ABOUT IT
@AngledAngel_fr wait do most people NOT assume this?
@TagorD-q9s Listen again.
@AngledAngel_fr Exactly! Past the void, is reality. Escape is through the void!
Abstraction is like corruption, when you try to retrieve data that is altered it corrupts, when the data is inconsistent with other datasets and enough of it is altered, the whole program corrupts. Psychologically unreliable memory can be a cause and a symptom of psychosis. Caine altering datasets as complex as human minds is acting like a malware unintentionally, destroying the stability of the mind, and eventually corrupting the entire data store.
Wait, actually there's something to it. In programming, it's risky to change data from memory in a separate process that is currently running, as read and writes at the same time can corrupt the data
@voltydragon6140exactly
@voltydragon6140 would that imply that if the cast believed in their ability to, they would be able to change Caine's memories/thoughts?
If getting your mind changed is what causes Abstraction, then Scratch being the first to abstract makes sense, the man had a brain tumour, people had a hard time keeping up with him.
If Scratch wanted to evade death then Caine's directive is keeping minds as close as they were when entering the ADC, too much development goes against his directive. Jax is getting his mind messed with and he is also having character development. Those changes were to keep him inside his archetype, the funny jerk, to keep him as the Jax that entered the ADC, but he isn't anymore he is starting to care about Pomni and the rest of the Circus.
It would also mean that Kinger staying for so long without abstracting is that he keeps forgetting in the light, a single modification that keeps Kinger as the neurotic man he entered as.
hm.
reminds me: The simpliest way to corrupt data is, reading it while it is being written to
It's really refreshing to see a theory video treats theories _as theories_ instead of hard fact.
Too many theory videos take tiny details and fan theories and just run with it as 'proven fact' when it's not, not even close.
While I understand leveraging fan theories in to other theories in an effort to try and understand what's really going on with the circus is convenient at the very least.
It's just really nice to not feel like people are trying to talk or lead people on about the show as if they actually know something that nobody else does.
Even if the theory isn't true, at the end of the day it's just fun to speculate on the "what if" as long as you don't think you're above criticism. There are definitely flaws with these ideas, but it's fun to connect together. I think where theory-crafting and critical thinking dies comes in the ability to acknowledge that you might be wrong, and I'm more than okay with that. It just makes it that much more interesting if the story catches me off-guard.
@FortsyOfficial Massive respects to ya as a person from what I've seen
Nobody is perfect, but if you try your best and keep improving via finding the most plausible theory GENUINELY and open to criticism
That is as close to perfection and the truth anyone could ever get
@Ardeleus Thank you! I've already had my eyes opened with some counterpoints but I'm happy I made the video regardless :) The enjoyment comes not from being right, but in discussion anyway.
Funnier now that they are fact at least for the most part
Kinger is just so incredible story-wise. He leaves so many opportunities and unanswered questions.
Can’t believe you left us on a Kaufhanger smh
0:43 thats literally not why he panicked. He panicked because kinger was implying that HE made scratch abstract. So cain got defensive and worried.
Why did you use literally and that's just a theory
@Pankavitowatch the episode again
Bro it’s a damn theory man don’t fuck it up and ruin it
@Pankavitolock in bro.
Hes still not wrong though. The name "Scratch" still rung a bell anyway.
Have not watched the whole video yet, but “he’s surrounded in darkness yet he doesn’t know who Abel is” is a silly argument. None of them know their real names, and Abel specifically says he made up his own name because he thought it would be cool. Kinger might know that the “real” Abel is metaphorical, a mascot, or nonexistent entirely. You might work at Wendy’s, but Wendy is not a person you can meet. Caine might not know that, and assume that because HE is real, so is Abel. Hence why he gives him the name.
Also, I don't think there was any evidence in this video that there IS an escape. The main screen menu might be the only convincing thing I've seen. "If Kinger was a programmer, he would put an exit option in" is not true if the digital copy theory is real. If they were digital copies, maybe deleting their codes would mess something else up, so abstracting was the best way to keep the game stable.
One more thing: if Kinger is the last person to have talked with Kaufmo, and Kaufmo wrote "NO WAY OUT" and "NO EXIT"... Wouldn't that maybe imply that Kinger, in a brief burst of consciousness, may have told Kaufmo that they're trapped and there is no way out?
But the company was also called Caine and Able, which is why kinger would hypothetically know
@aerin@aerindinescarro47ah, but in my Wendy’s example, if your coworker said “I just talked to Wendy, I’m going on break”, you would also say “who?????” Because Wendy is not a thing you can talk to.
@dangerbunnyy kinger is smart enough to put two and two together, since he already has half the picture with… Caine.
i feel like the problem with the idea that kinger would be unable to recognise abel because they don't know their real names in the circus is the fact that kinger is aware that queenie is his wife, no? likewise, with the wendy's argument, if you were locked in an abandoned wendy's that you worked at for multiple years, if you suddenly heard about someone named 'wendy', i don't think the natural reaction with that context would be to go "who???" even under the assumption the 'wendy' in wendy's is more of a concept/mascot than an individual
"The Zooble and The Pomni🍴" will never not be funny XD
lol
What if the bug he is talking about has double meaning like bugs in game that can make them go in menu to quit just force quit type shit
23:02 “Explain to daddy bubble how bad thing”🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️
With this theory, it makes Kaufmo’s abstraction much more terrifying. It implies more that Kaufmo DID find the way out of the circus, then Caine erased the memory, causing Kaufmo to try to recall the memory and lose his mind trying, writing stuff on the wall about Caine and the exit. It may also imply he also knew about Caine erasing memories, because every drawing of Caine pictures him as cruel and psychotic, and some even tie into events in LATER EPISODES. Maybe Caine got some ideas from them…?
Notice three buttons on the menu, remember how the two buttons on the console were red and blue? Yet the exit button on the menu is yellow, and the play button is red. Caine didn't give them the button to exit, only to "Play" and "Options", and he manipulated Jax to hit the red (play) button.
I agree although I don’t not think he manipulated Jax I that scene. It’s pretty apparent that Jax acted on his own accord out of fear of what the real world holds for him. I believe it’s like Zooble suggested: He doesn’t have anyone waiting for him outside, and the fear of what the outside world holds for him drove him to make that decision in his panic.
Nope
One thing very consistent about Caine is that he really doesn't handle it well when he's pressed on the fact he's probably lying.
3:44 I have a theory about Kinger and Light; that it's not LIGHT that causes amnesia, but subliminal messages in the textures of Caine's environments, which bombard him when he's in the light. When they come across a room that ISN'T a texture on the main wall but is actually a plain white, it doesn't set it off.
Either that, or Kinger's amnesia is set off by _Color._
His pillow fort may be dark, but it’s colorful.
@celestialwolf93 well, yeah, but because it’s inside IS dark, each individual Pillow seems closer in color (seeming closer to black) so the color amnesia thing is TECHNICALLY possible still
his wife's eyes were colorful when she abstracted
His favorite color is black
That’s…actually a decent theory. Caine wouldn’t modify his office too much just to suppress Kingers mind cause he isn’t thinking that far ahead, he’d be more excited to validate himself by making the group press the button to stay.
there is no escape because they're digital clones/avatars. kinger asking "leave the circus? how would you-? no, that doesn't make sense." ....because the real "people" are still out there living their lives. maybe not even aware that a complete digital clone of their consciousness was created when they put on a headset. the avatars don't know their real names because you typically don't use your real name for your in-game characters.
Quite true indeed
Clone theory!!!
This. Think i saw a black mirror episode like this once.
@moonie2687 ooh was it that one where they were just simulations inside a dating app? that was wild!
Soma lol
I wonder if another reason for Caine not wanting anyone to leave is that maybe when he was first developed, he had a constant stream of people to entertain, but once they cut him off, people stopped appearing in the circus, so he made sure to do everything in his power to prevent people from leaving the circus, even if he had to wipe people’s memory of how to leave.
I like the idea that sure, an exit is still possible, but that Caine is making it seem like you can’t leave, and that’s why he doesn’t want people abstracting, because if you are in the circus too long and you begin to suffer mentally, since there’s no exit, your brain can’t handle the circus and it will abstract
Notice that Caine didn’t say he couldn’t modify their minds just that if he did it wouldn’t be good!
HE WAS RIGHT
Abstraxtion being tied to memories makes so much sense when you remember that Pomni’s name is Slovenian/Russian for ‘Remember’.
33:12 they cut him off? So that’s confirmation that Cain at least is definitely abandonware. The system is running, but nobody is watching/feeding info back in for Cain.
Good emphasis on that. I was hoping he would comment more on it.
I"ve always had this though that Kinger's room is actually completley Bright, like four led lights walls that never let the room in darkness, that's why he is never there and always in his fort.
You called Kingers memory unreliable for not remembering someone who wasnt actually his coworker?
Either a fake co-worker or himself but both are well within the realm of possibility, but I can't wait until the next Kinger episode cause he really called it with "It's not the most pleasant memory but it's at least one I have control over.
my question is: the members cant remember their OWN names, but can they remember their past friends and familys names?
so IF abel WAS real… he wouldnt remember his name either. his real name couldve been Bob or something… so kinger would have remembered Bob but have no idea who “Abel” is
but that also raises the question… how did Kinger know Queenie was his wife? that makes me think they CANT remember outside peoples names… or maybe Kinger forgot his wifes name because she was ALSO in the circus.
Yeah, admittedly I am working on the assumption that C&A DOES stand for "Caine & Abel", not having even realized it's possible that the name was a fabrication. If C&A does indeed stand for "Abel", it calls everything into question, but I hadn't considered the idea that it wasn't real from the get-go and nothing more than a very elaborate plan by Caine. That's a pretty good point. I am curious what Kinger's backstory will end up revealing, can't wait for episode 8.
@FortsyOfficial I admittedly can see where youre coming from, I just think it's easier to assume Abel is completely fictional simply due to Caine wanting an original character. Caine strikes me as someone who would just make a character for this instead of reusing someone that only the one guy he's trying to exclude would know is an employee
@cherrydaylights4920 Personally, I think it's more like "That's the company name, not someone I worked with."
It's like you work at a Tyson Chicken plant and someone says, "hey remember your coworker Tyson?" and you're like, "Um?? No??"
Personally, I like the idea that Kinger *is* Able. I do firmly stand by the idea that Kinger was a dev, also, why he knows there is no escape.
I subscribe to the "they're digital copies and the real human left long ago" Kinger probably knows this, that they're copies, so the point of entertaining an escape is pretty pointless to him. Also might be a reason why he hasn't abstracted
Maybe kinger has to die because the game ends when the king falls
I’ve always sort of had the headcanon that whatever else happens to the players or the exit that Kinger isn’t going to make it, for that reason among a few others
Okay wow that makes too much sense for how absurd this idea is. I love it though.
@itsnuqieSTAY WITH ME NOW!!!!!
Technically in chess the king never leaves the board, it ends when he has no escape. I don't think Kinger will die but I think he will stay in the circus
@bolognesa777WAIT YOU’RE COOKING UR RIGHT OMG. esp cause kinger keeps getting sm screen time in the trailer,,,,
6:11 "...keeps his memories in CHECK." ... PUN??
Queenie to C(ellar) 1 Checkmate💀
27:40 THOUGHT! HE THOUGHT IT! HE WASNT RESPONISBLE HE THOUGJT HE WAS!! Also the fact the kinger is only SANE in darkness is such good wording. He holds on to positives memories and is insane because of them. And he can only share his light in darkness.
Yo wait i thought this was post episode 8 until i saw the release date
Kinger will prob fall into the void, and try to get back through conjuring, while the other's represent the 5 stages of grief or anything, and some try to escape on their own means, and jax extracts.
i havent seen the whole video yet but my personal theory why kinger remembered scratch was because caine lost concentration with the cast pressing him and the modifier for his memory lifted.
UNLESS Abel wasn’t kingers coworker, kinger IS Abel. Thats why he doesn’t know who he is. It’s himself and Caine erased their names from their memories.
I mean, If you Worked at Adam and Eve, and Someone told You they Were talking To your Friend and Coworker eve, (Even though You dont Work with Anyone named Eve) you Would probs Be confused As well
7:23 when Abel tells his name to the crew, Gangle ask him if he invented that name for himself, Abel answering that yes, thinking it would be cool. So kingler probably don't recognize that name because he truly don't know Abel with that name
Yea was just about to say that
Kingers reaction to the idea of an exit was more like an a 'how would you even...' I'm convinced in a more SOMA everyone is actually an AI so they literally can't leave
I think Scratch was the one who didn’t make an exit function because he had a tumor and he wanted to keep himself alive or something, and his “pointers” he gave to Kinger was for that reason
6:50 BRO THE BUTTERFLY HE MADE UP IN THE FUTURE EPISODE it’s like he got an idea right then n there lol
Welp this aged like wine knowing Scratch was the other coder and founder of the AI that Caine uses. Caine forced his abstraction.
30:05 huh. I originally interpreted Bubble’s commit to be like disgust from the idea of the other AI’s being left to roam free, but this point makes me wonder if it’s disgusted by Zooble for suggesting something inhumane. Idk makes me think.
My theory is that Queenie was the one to create Caine and Kinger helped her to develop the Digital Circus to test out her AI in. It just strikes me as strange that Caine has an affinity to draw bee’s in his notebooks when we know one of Queenie’s hobbies was studying insects.
Close, kinger made caine
Well, now we have more clarity, what Kinger is capable and what not...
Omg I just figured out why exactly Kinger was sentient when room was light, It's because Pomni told Abel that!
He asked her are you sure to give access to Kinger and she replied that if the room will be dark then yes, so he switched the rule
Belief theory for the win!
Caine purposefully made it bright-
Broooo you might be in to something here!
7:44 He can’t remember who able is because HE is able, and they can’t remember their own names. Because Caine has erased their names from their memory.
Why are u lowkey cookin🤔
THATS WHAT I WAS SAYING!! Plus, in this episode Gooseworx denied the theory that there is an Able in the circus, but not whether or not KINGER is the one who is Able.. which is the theory that most people were talking about
this makes so much sense
this is what ive been saying!! that explains why caine chose to use the name abel so that kinger couldnt interfere and tell the truth!
Cooking hard with this one
Kinger is being manipulated by the lights that Caine has shining 24/7, this is why he can only think clearly in dim/dark places. Pomni was hoping that the console room in the previous episode was dark enough for Kinger to think clearly, and to finally explain what he knows to everyone else. Unfortunately, it wasn't dark enough, Kinger was still under Caine's influence, and Jax was manipulated to press the button to stay through his anxiety (hence his crash-out shortly after). Kinger knows how TADC works, but is ashamed of what it has become. Caine knows this, and is afraid of what Kinger could do if he ever regains his memories.
Something I just realized is that he said he can make temporary adjustments. As everyone knows when it comes to authority like government; There is nothing more permanent than a temporary measure.
Apollo blessed this man
15:26 - 15:59 Caine didn't swear; he used "ass" in the old sense to refer to a silly or stupid person. Pomni bleeped when she asked if Caine said "ass" because she was using the modern sense of the word that is a swear.
True that. Old nickname for Donkey
They’re using in the same context. 🤦♂️
well one way or another he definitely said goddamn in his song
00:12 Trust Me with your safety
"CaineTech, Trust _us_ with _your_ entertainment!"
@a.j.outlaster1222Rome wasn’t built in a dayy
@luckygirlsyndrome-03 you gotta climb a little higher, to the top of the display
When theres a will theres a waaaayy
@seven-glitch-zyt where there's a will THERES A WAAAAYYYYY
If brains are like files, Caine definitely caused file corruptions
fortsy heyyyyy you don't happen to have the entire tadc script with you right? /hj
bro was fucking right
Bro it was wild!
makes me wonder if the ‘dream’ pomni had of them forgetting her so early was caine attempting to make her forget about the exit and redirect her since she was so focused on the exit from the start
28:27 damn, nice job, I didn’t think about him creating Caine until he said it. I thought he created the amazing digital circus as like a game dev.
His wife was an entomologist and a butterfly he made restored a heart
It would be interesting if abstraction IS the way out and that’s why Kinger gets people to abstract.
Alternatively, there isn’t a way out and Kinger is trying to help people pass on through abstraction…
9:50 the road to hell is paved with good intentions. I think episode 8 will fully reveal what happened leading to Caine wiping Kinger's memories, that he forgot to delete the Scratch memory because he wanted to leave memories of his wife out of good intentions, and basically confirm that Caine is an utter dirtbag that does what he can to manipulate the Circus members without being overtly malicious.
1:20 *"DROWN YOURSELF IN THE DIGITAL LAKE"*
Maybe his wife "sends" him bugs. Sorta like irl, people believe their dead loved ones "send birds" or butterflies, flowers etc
Oh so like, he made scratch abstract because they probably held the key to get out of the circus, they were the one with all the bright ideas and all
17:59 It‘s as if he‘s trying to prevent some- HEY YOU STOLE MY LINE
I don't know why everyone thinks Kinger should know who Able was if they were both developers.
1) I think it was pretty clear that all of that was faked. Revealing it to be a double fake-out would just be annoying.
2) Abel said he picked his name himself and never showed himself to anyone. So even if he was somehow real, Kinger wouldn't know the name.
Your second point is something I wanted to point out myself. Abel was a name he stated he picked for himself so of course Kinger wouldn't recognise it as one of the workers.
@Whyzp he's working off of the idea that C&A is a real company, that it stands for Cain & Able, and that *that* Able was actually a real person
@debbie0110
Honestly, I think C&A are real, I just don't think that means Able is a character.
@rolay7730 character as in the mannequin? for sure, I agree. by the way Fortsy talks about *that* Abel I'm pretty sure he sees it that way too. he just thinks there was a real one in the real world who Kinger should at least remember to be a cofounder of the company since (based on the pretense that the A in C&A stands for Abel) it's named after the guy
@debbie0110
I think it is just a religious game company name. Like Bethesda. I don't think it means a pair of brothers actually ran the company.
after episode 8
holy shit
After my autistic ass found out about on what Abstracting Data for AI means I started to see Cain and Kinger differently tbh
Wait please tell me what it means i wanna know
@WooWoo-vk5irTo put it simply, the abstracted are turned into data to be recycled into AI used for his adventures. So, theoretically, they’ve most likely already come across original circus characters before they got recycled
@WooWoo-vk5irData abstraction is the process of hiding complex technical and hardware details while providing the user with only the key information and functions.
In computer science this can resemble bit rot (data degradation on a physical medium) or a virus/malware. If the world of the circus is an old, decaying server, abstraction could be a natural process of data decay. One could therefore assume that in theory this results in the “bubble boy virus”, but that’s not the focus right now.
Caine applies a simplified interface to raw data (human minds) - memories, lack of names, censorship of swear words. This is data abstraction in practice: hiding a complicated and painful reality under a colorful surface.
Perhaps the avatar is chosen by the user, but we do not know that.
Caine has a programmed main objective: “Provide entertainment and order.” The problem is that human minds are too complex and unpredictable for his algorithms.
That is why he places layers of abstraction on them.
If the “server” (the Circus) has limited computing power, Caine must manage resources. When a character starts losing stability or searching for an exit, it consumes too many cognitive processes.
In this view, abstraction is something like a “Force Close.” Caine may deliberately cause processes to crash when they become too expensive for the system, and then throw them into the Cellar to free RAM for new adventures.
It is as if he tries to create a “logical” narrative from the illogical behavior of users. Abstraction may be the moment when Caine gives up trying to understand a given person. He classifies them as an “Undefined Behavior” error and allows them to collapse.
Caine tries to counteract this through his adventures, attempting to distract the minds from the decaying code in the machine to which the humans are connected.
If the AI compresses and modifies the characters’ minds too aggressively in order to fit them into his vision of the world, it will eventually lead to a loss of data integrity.
The problem is that if you remove too much data from an object, it becomes useless. A character “abstracting” is the moment when the model loses too many connections with reality and stops functioning.
The result is that the system (the human mind) begins to overheat under these limitations. Abstraction becomes a side effect of excessive data compression by Caine. He does not want to break them - he simply cannot handle them without simplifying them.
From an AI perspective, Kinger may be using selective encapsulation, meaning he hides key data (memories of Queenie) so deeply within his “damaged” structure that even Caine cannot fully manipulate them. Data is supposed to be explicit and readable; otherwise it is treated as garbage data.
You can also look at Zooble in an interesting way and at how Caine becomes frustrated with them. On one layer, we know that Zooble does not want to participate in the adventures and that Caine thinks they are simply bored, while he admires humans.
But another interpretation could be that a user who constantly changes different parts of their character by themselves while still remaining the same person might make Caine jealous.
And Zooble tells Caine that they're still not happy with the results witch he does not understand.
I hope I've explained this well, English is not my first language so it took me a while ❤
Able is probably the second blue ai that caine consumed after getting out of his digital cage in episode 8
Yeah that would make a lot of sense
That's what I see
Caine = unstable prototype AI
Able = safe and more advanced AI
Caine being unstable enabled hin to escape his prison, then he consumed Able (the AI with self-control and skills).
22:42 I JUST HAD A REVELATION
If the cast are really scanned into the circus and not actually their real counterparts, having their memories/minds messed with could ultimately be leading to abstraction because they gradually become less and less accurate to their real life human. They lose certain contexts that make up who they are and how they behave. Continuously messing with their minds eventually causes them to be nothing like the person they're meant to be based off. And so the code that makes up the character freaks out.
Theory: some of the cast members are ai’s created by Caine to indirectly influence and stabilize the cast’s minds to avoid abstraction. Many times the show mentions how AI can appear so human and even get mixed up with humans, as well as how people like Ragatha and others helped people like Kinger stay sane and feel better. This could be kind of a loophole used by Caine to alter their minds without them realizing or abstracting, and if they figured this out it could cause major issues.
Who's here after episode 8
One thing I think is interesting is that 2 but now 3 people know that you can use their imagination to effect the digital circus but kinger is the only one who creates a npc/item
I have seen multiple people make something of cain not remembering ables name, but "Able" specifically said he took that name on entering the Circus, so even if Able had been telling the Truth, Kinger wouldn't have recognized it.
( if we assume kinger worked on the circus ) then it's like making a joke about wendy to a wendy's cashier, and having them look at you like " who's wendy??? i'v never heard that name in my life "
nothing can be certain right now, but the npc making up the name able doesn't mean that able in the real world doesn't exist per say
Also what I want to say: Able took this name when characters _asked_ him what was his name. So never before did he have this name. Kinger just couldn't possibly know him.
@mif_sovremennosty of course he wouldn't know npc able. there's no reason he wouldn't know the real life able that would have existed. Though now we know ( spoilers if your behind below)
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Abel was the second AI that caine ate, so him being confused about the name able wasn't actually due not recognizing the name, it was about knowing able wasn't human and was dead. thats probably what he was rushing out to try to tell pomni.
Someone get this man on the 8th episode already
A note on Caine Swearing in Episode 6. Ass can also - and originally did -mean "donkey." Now, we don't see Ming appear as a donkey, but the point is still there.
I do not think that was what we were meant to interpret it as specifically because of pomni pointing it out, if it was meant to be a “loophole” to cursing, it’d be strange for pomni to point it out - narratively.
@Loveybuggi I think the censoring is based on intent of what you mean by what you say. Pomni seemed confused that Caine said "ass", which would imply she doesn't know it refers to donkeys and used to not be a curse word, so she was asking if he just said ass, as in a butt.
You might now know that Abel was an ai who got taken over by caine
It's actually quite strange how Caine and Kinger haven't interacted more especially since Kinger is the one most receptive to a lot of Caine's stuff. Like the Chinese Room is something only Kinger would've understood, or the digital simulated food thing, you'd think he'd be focused on Kinger but he isn't. Maybe he's bored, or maybe there's something more like these scenes are suggesting. Caine being made by Kinger would make a lot of sense especially if people blamed him for it creating Caine or the bug that trapped them. What if the humans like the NPC's were supposed to be deleted cause it's SOMA or reabsorbed/integrated back into the human players.
I think the favorite character awards show might be interesting too if the Abstracted characters have any influence over the game because that means that maybe a lot of the Abstracted voted for Kinger, or Pomni? I'd be down if the Butterfly's or other things in the game were influenced by abstracted members, maybe even Jax could've been partially. I think the three buttons on the screen will prove to be relevant too now that's it's brought up.
This makes Kinger even stronger cause his wife and friend (if they were working on the circus they were also close) abstracted and he barely hung on after that.
Maybe Kinger had the opportunity to help Caine and he lashed out so now he's acting how he is, maybe during his Gumigoo moment and instead he grew more fearful and his adventures and AI took a darker turn?
I like the way you rhink. I agree!!!
Ngl, I just realized that the most interesting character is actually Caine, cuz the C&A circus was always about Caine & Abel, Caine and Ki... Abel
22:03 this moment, btw, explains why Kinger suddenly regained the control over his memory. Cuz Caine was pressured to control the member's minds less, due to them starting questioning his ability to do it.
The outro made me say - "Oh..."
26:21 AWHHH!! The fact we saw this in episode 8
12:10 - Caine IS a "prisoner", but not like everyone else. In order to get those photos of the real world office, Caine would've required access to the C&A Network OUTSIDE of the game. Caine is an A.I. developed by C&A, but he became to powerful in the Network, so he was lured into TADC...and trapped there. How he was lured there, who trapped him, and so on are yet to be revealed, but we can safely assume that Kinger, Queenie, and others were involved. Caine quickly took on the role of Ring Master, but never lost his obsession to escape. By causing players to forget their names, Caine could them prevent them from leaving. By keeping abstracted players under the Big Top area, Caine to take his time figuring out how to use them to escape via the now vacant host's body. Kinger and his memories are the only things still standing in Caine's way.
Dude episode 8 was crazy as shit
13:10 “while Jax and kinger are on their date” 😭😭
GUESS WHAT!? You were right!
one of my best friends killed himself the other day, and that quote from Kinger at the end- "the worst thing you can do in this world is make someone feel like they are unwanted or loved" really hit home.. damn dude >w
Well this aged like wine
15:51 “Get the FUCK out of my building!”
They can’t leave…because they only exist in the circus. They are brain scans, not humans in stasis pods. When the cast finally figure out that they aren’t really who they think they are, and therefore can’t escape, they abstract.
Caine believes the humans are in stasis pods, or a similar situation. If he knew that they were just uploaded brain scans he wouldn’t be doing any of his attempts to get the humans to love him.
"Dont treat any of this as gospel" sir-
I have a theory that caine might have also put on a headset too and he might be the first one. And since there is a theory that when ur in the circus u can imagine something and make it happen when you say it. So Caine might have learned that before anybody else. That is why Caine is like the boss of the circus. Other people aren’t probably aware of this. If they are, they can basically have the same power as Caine and probably exit the circus. I also have another theory that since kinger remembers the first abstraction he might have been the second person to enter the circus. I believe that Caine and kinger made the C and A company and made the circus. Caine realizes the power he has so he does not tell kinger. I believe that kinger is Abel. That is my head cannon.
Wtf u talking about? Caine is an AI and it's confirmed and no, Kinger wasn't the second one he was the first one to enter
I really like this idea but caine is confirmed as an AI. if he wasn't I would really like this idea as a theory
I've seen a take I really like--though the story is loosely inspired by "I Have No Mouth but I Must Scream," Cain is a case of "I Have No Heart but I Must Feel"
This is why Kinger is the GOAT
My theory after episode 8 is this: they failed to create an AI that could actually be creative because Caine was broken and Abel was eaten by Caine. Well if they can virtualize a person's mind, then they probably decided to try creating a virtual person to be the creative intelligence since they couldn't create the AI.
In episode 8 Caine mentions "mind files" which proves the theory that everyone in the game is actually a copy of the original human's brain.
This is less a theory and more just you explaining the subtext of the show for anyone who has no media literacy to understand the lore the show is making abundantly clear
Queenie, even when abstracted, acted calm and stable in the dark. She probably had a similar modifier to Kinger.
You know ever since the start of show. I always knew that someone among the cast knew something they aren't telling. and I always knrwew it was Kinger.
Minor correction, dissociates not disassociates. To dissociate is to zone out, everyone does it to some degree but it becomes a disorder when it impacts your ability to perceive reality or otherwise function. Disassociate means to stop associating with something or someone, like an ex-friend. Kinger displays what would be considered in our world to be dissociative amnesia, with light being his trigger. I dislike when he’s played for a joke because I relate to him a lot with my Dissociative Identity Disorder, I just hope they don’t go the “evil personality” route as that’s a very stigmatising writing trope for people with dissociative disorders.
Bro was right