Merci beaucoup. This is out of my pay grade, but I understood everything. My keyboard technique is holding me back, but after two years of being a music theory nerd, I mut be dangerous since I have a little knowledge. I recognized my limitations, and with the agreement with my piano teachers, I quit working on my Method 2 books and went back to Method Books Level 1. And I am trying to apply all my knowledge to really understand and feel music in a different way. I've met more than one musician that has told me that I'll never be a musician. In one sense, I have to agree with them, and in another sense, that is of so little importance that it is not an issue. I'm going to talk about what you were saying, but I will be using "The Birthday Cake" and "My First Adventure" as the subject matter.
That's an interesting point! Leonard Bernstein famously remarked that Beethoven wasn't great at writing melodies. In one of his lectures, Bernstein suggested that Beethoven's genius lay more in the development of structure than in creating instantly memorable tunes. However, I’d argue that many of Beethoven's works showcase his mastery of melody. The 'Arietta' from Op. 111, for example, is a perfect example of how he could craft something both profound and beautiful. In my opinion, this challenges Bernstein's claim! Link to Bernstein's lecture: ruclips.net/video/_HHIb9tcc9c/видео.htmlsi=H1UABm3H6uNjw-Fs
Isn't "all good melodies are based on an arpeggio" just another way of saying "all good melodies contain at least one interval that's not a second"? Not a very useful property in my opinion.
There’s a difference between simply having an interval and how an arpeggio functions as a long-form structural guide for a melody. An arpeggio isn't just about having skips or avoiding seconds-it’s about outlining harmonic tension and resolution over time, often giving direction or shape to the melody. You can absolutely create a long-scale arpeggio using only stepwise motion (seconds), where each note contributes to a larger harmonic idea. In this sense, an arpeggio provides a guiding framework that transcends individual intervals, whether they’re steps or skips. So it’s not just about the intervals themselves, but how they work together over time to define the harmonic movement of the melody.
@@syroyid-class I understand, but this idea, like much of the Schenkerian analysis it stems from, seems to lack the clarity and definition to make it useful - or perhaps I just don't understand it. What would be an example of a melody not based on an arpeggio under this definition - and how exactly could it have been improved (which notes could've been changed) to make it "arpeggio-based"?
I see what you mean, and I get that the idea can feel abstract. To give an example, imagine a melody that focuses heavily on just the notes C and E, but never introduces the G. By omitting that G, which would complete the C major arpeggio, the melody might lack a sense of direction and feel harmonically static because it’s not outlining the full harmonic structure. The G would help to resolve the tension created by C and E and guide the melody forward. Without it, the listener may feel like the melody is stuck or unresolved. In this sense, introducing the missing note from the arpeggio provides more dynamic movement and a stronger sense of progression. The idea behind an arpeggio isn’t just the literal presence of skips but the way it frames a harmonic structure and guides the melody towards a more balanced and satisfying direction.
@@syroyid-class Yes, I do understand that, but the question is, does this concept help me compose better melodies, or even analyze existing ones? Indeed, is there any actual melody, good or bad, that does not outline some harmony in some way?
You bring up an important question, and I think the value of this concept is more evident in practical composition. In my experience teaching composition, students often forget about this principle and end up writing melodies that omit crucial notes from the large-form arpeggio. These melodies tend to feel incomplete or static, lacking the harmonic foundation needed for a satisfying progression. Nowadays, a lot of pop songs feature very simple one- or two-note melodies, which can work for certain effects but often result in music that feels less engaging over time. While these melodies can be extremely popular, they sometimes lack the depth and movement that comes from outlining a complete harmonic structure. This leads to listeners getting tired of the song quickly, even if it's catchy at first. I’m not pointing fingers at any specific artists, but I’m sure you’ve noticed this trend. By consciously considering the harmonic framework, we can create melodies that not only feel more dynamic but also stand the test of time in terms of listener engagement. I suggest checking David Bennett's video Songs with One Note Melodies ruclips.net/video/x5-xZygYKL0/видео.html&ab_channel=DavidBennettPiano
Excellent explanation. Thank you very much for the presentation - good melody. ❤
Great video!!
Whoa okay, cool channel
Merci beaucoup. This is out of my pay grade, but I understood everything. My keyboard technique is holding me back, but after two years of being a music theory nerd, I mut be dangerous since I have a little knowledge. I recognized my limitations, and with the agreement with my piano teachers, I quit working on my Method 2 books and went back to Method Books Level 1. And I am trying to apply all my knowledge to really understand and feel music in a different way. I've met more than one musician that has told me that I'll never be a musician. In one sense, I have to agree with them, and in another sense, that is of so little importance that it is not an issue.
I'm going to talk about what you were saying, but I will be using "The Birthday Cake" and "My First Adventure" as the subject matter.
Excellent
I’d love to hear what you’d say about late Debussy. Etudes or images 2…?
Beethoven wrote excellent melodies… especially in his later works (Beethoven op 111
Arietta)
That's an interesting point! Leonard Bernstein famously remarked that Beethoven wasn't great at writing melodies. In one of his lectures, Bernstein suggested that Beethoven's genius lay more in the development of structure than in creating instantly memorable tunes. However, I’d argue that many of Beethoven's works showcase his mastery of melody. The 'Arietta' from Op. 111, for example, is a perfect example of how he could craft something both profound and beautiful. In my opinion, this challenges Bernstein's claim!
Link to Bernstein's lecture: ruclips.net/video/_HHIb9tcc9c/видео.htmlsi=H1UABm3H6uNjw-Fs
Isn't "all good melodies are based on an arpeggio" just another way of saying "all good melodies contain at least one interval that's not a second"? Not a very useful property in my opinion.
There’s a difference between simply having an interval and how an arpeggio functions as a long-form structural guide for a melody. An arpeggio isn't just about having skips or avoiding seconds-it’s about outlining harmonic tension and resolution over time, often giving direction or shape to the melody.
You can absolutely create a long-scale arpeggio using only stepwise motion (seconds), where each note contributes to a larger harmonic idea. In this sense, an arpeggio provides a guiding framework that transcends individual intervals, whether they’re steps or skips. So it’s not just about the intervals themselves, but how they work together over time to define the harmonic movement of the melody.
@@syroyid-class I understand, but this idea, like much of the Schenkerian analysis it stems from, seems to lack the clarity and definition to make it useful - or perhaps I just don't understand it. What would be an example of a melody not based on an arpeggio under this definition - and how exactly could it have been improved (which notes could've been changed) to make it "arpeggio-based"?
I see what you mean, and I get that the idea can feel abstract. To give an example, imagine a melody that focuses heavily on just the notes C and E, but never introduces the G. By omitting that G, which would complete the C major arpeggio, the melody might lack a sense of direction and feel harmonically static because it’s not outlining the full harmonic structure.
The G would help to resolve the tension created by C and E and guide the melody forward. Without it, the listener may feel like the melody is stuck or unresolved. In this sense, introducing the missing note from the arpeggio provides more dynamic movement and a stronger sense of progression.
The idea behind an arpeggio isn’t just the literal presence of skips but the way it frames a harmonic structure and guides the melody towards a more balanced and satisfying direction.
@@syroyid-class Yes, I do understand that, but the question is, does this concept help me compose better melodies, or even analyze existing ones? Indeed, is there any actual melody, good or bad, that does not outline some harmony in some way?
You bring up an important question, and I think the value of this concept is more evident in practical composition. In my experience teaching composition, students often forget about this principle and end up writing melodies that omit crucial notes from the large-form arpeggio. These melodies tend to feel incomplete or static, lacking the harmonic foundation needed for a satisfying progression.
Nowadays, a lot of pop songs feature very simple one- or two-note melodies, which can work for certain effects but often result in music that feels less engaging over time. While these melodies can be extremely popular, they sometimes lack the depth and movement that comes from outlining a complete harmonic structure. This leads to listeners getting tired of the song quickly, even if it's catchy at first.
I’m not pointing fingers at any specific artists, but I’m sure you’ve noticed this trend. By consciously considering the harmonic framework, we can create melodies that not only feel more dynamic but also stand the test of time in terms of listener engagement.
I suggest checking David Bennett's video Songs with One Note Melodies
ruclips.net/video/x5-xZygYKL0/видео.html&ab_channel=DavidBennettPiano