In Japan, you need a seal and a signature for official document. You need to create a unique seal for yourself when you are in legal age to sign official document like opening a bank account or buying a house.
Yes 🙌 isn’t the Japanese story of origin very similar to ancient Sumerian mythology something about descendants from heaven… so many similarities. The royal sea of nibiru was a winged red disk same with Egypt and you find megalithic polygonal constructions as well as giant kofun swords fit for Gilgamesh. And the mountain gods who live in a volcano and the tall mountain spirits. The symbol for the origin myth even looks like the engineering cross section of a winged dragon. If only we could all step back and appreciate how much in common we all really have and that our differences are quite supplemental and refreshing to exchange. Deepest bow from America to our Japanese brothers and sisters. Need to learn from the polygonal megalith builders that our diversity makes us stronger together.
Another fascinating authentication technique used in Mesopotamia for particularly important documents was the use of envelopes. A clay tablet would be inscribed with a text and fired, and then inserted into a hollow enveloping shell of clay, on which they'd inscribe the same text. The envelope was then closed, and a stamp seal or cylinder seal would be used to seal it. So if there was ever any legal dispute over the authenticity of a document, the outer clay could be broken open, and the text on the inner tablet would be compared with the text on the envelope tablet to ensure that the text hadn't been forged or tampered with. In such cases, a document was often only admissible as evidence if it could be produced in its unopened envelope, to be broken open and examined by the law court. The use of an envelope plus a stamp/cylinder seal could be considered the earliest known method of two-factor authentication!
Reminds me of a society that was used to living advanced but then got stranded on a planet and did their best to replicate the tech they use to have I dont actually think thats historically accurate, just a cool thought
In the UK here and when I took out a mortgage 30 years ago I was lucky enough to be offered the original vellum copies attached to the property. They're covered in official seals, some straight on the vellum others hanging by ribbons. The bank gave them to me free because they were only going to throw them in the rubbish.
I want to believe a beefeater carried it from the backroom with a cryer ringing a bell and announcing that the deed had been signed on this day of our Lord.
That is soooo cool! I'd love to look at that. Did you know that England used to also use tally sticks to keep records? The practice was discontinued in 1826, but when the Exchequer tried to destroy a bunch of them several years later, they accidentally caused westminster palace to burn down. Getting rid of old records can be a real task!
Why would they throw them out vs. give them to the local town / municipal authority for their records? That sounds criminal from a historical preservation perspective.
As a full time career potter, I always use a release agent when stamping imagery or patterns into clay, for the sharpest details. My preference is usually olive oil, but thinner, lighter oils work well. Mineral oil, penetrating oil, canola oil, etc, could be dabbed on the image with a sponge dipped in oil and squeezed out somewhat. Any dried clay should be wiped off with water. If you use a light oil, you can wipe that off with water as well. You don't have to be too worried about keeping the water and oil separate. Love your channel, Joe.
I was going to suggest that, but you beat me to it, ha ha! True story: When Tesla giga-castings are done (really massive chunks of metal!), the machines are coated with soybean oil so they release quickly and cleanly.
Interesting 😊 As a ceramic artist (wannabee), I've purchased - and made - similar cylinders for imprinting unique textures into my work. Helpful hint: you need to use some type of release agent on the cylinder (my favorite is WD40) to prevent clay boogers from getting stuck in the cylinder. (Pretty sure the ancient Mesopotamians didn't have access to WD40!)
If anyone happens to be passing through NYC, you can see these at the Met and also at the Morgan Library and Museum. They have a whole slew of these things in one of the rooms in the original part of the house. A friend of mine and I went to see a show there at the beginning of the year called "She Wrote." It was about the first know authored piece of writing. Often, these cylinder seals were representations of quotes from Mesopotamian literature. The person who wrote the original hymns and poetry was a priestess named Enheduanna. Her hymns and exaltations were recorded and quoted from for centuries by Mesopotamian scribes. It would be like having a text from the bible or a line of Shakespeare or the Koran as one's signature.
Am I that big of a nerd that I knew what a Cylinder Seal was as soon as Joe held it up? I was so fascinated by them as a kid, that and cuneiform. Would love to get one of those! Awesome content as always, Joe!
Nope you're not alone. Though not as much as you, I too did recognize it. I was fascinated by the concept of fantasy world currencies which led me to historical real world currencies. And that led me to how they knew something was authentic or not.
@@redacted178 And who said having a love for fantasy was a waste of time? Sometimes fantasy worlds will peak our curiosity in exploring our own. It must of then been quite the treat to find out it was all real after all. Good on you, mate!
@@RabidChild82 Hey, we all can’t know everything. I bet you know things I’m not even aware of. But that’s what makes interacting with each other both fascinating and a necessity. We are meant to always be learning and filling in the gaps within our knowledge, and we can only do that together.
A big advantage of a cylinder seal over a signet ring is the difficulty of constructing a forgery from an impression. This is relatively easy using plaster on a signet ring seal but would be very much more difficult to reconstruct a cylindrical surface.
As much as i love your videos, i tried brilliant out and I literally completed 5 classes before having to correct like 3 answers they explained incorrectly and have since not used them. As much as learning can be fun, when there are no accreditation for their classes then there is no guarantee they present accurate info, you cant rely on them for accurate answers or a worthwhile education. I will continue to watch your amazing videos but I will never support failed education institutions. much love
I have done a few of their courses and noticed a lot of their questions and solutions are 'odd' at best, ranging from "That's weird, if I do it XYZ it works too' through to plain outright wrong. As if the quality control is lacking a lot of times. (EDIT: Ironically enough for my complaining about quality control, I made typos. My excuse is. umm.. Look! A squirrel!)
Thank you for the honest review! As something that markets itself through science youtubers, that's extremely disappointing. I was about to say "maybe in the arts you'd get some value from amateurs sharing what works for them" but then I realized you can have a method or style _work_ but that doesn't mean there hasn't been something innovated that works _better_ . There's no use in an educational resource that doesn't fact-check itself.
@@ptonpc I did the Security+ exam earlier this year, and I found the official test question guide they publish through a partner to be rife with either outright incorrect answers, or only partially correct. Really irked me that I had to pay money for an "industry" certificate when I know that much of the material is not right. It's no wonder so many people barely pass or have to take it multiple times. If you learn the correct information, you're not guaranteed to have the "correct" answer for the test. I'm guessing Brilliant's similar?
I was in the Penn Museum the other week, and they had an entire wall of seal cylinders with blowups of what was on them. Super cool how little the art style changed from Ur to the Achaemenid and later sassanid empires. Edit for clarity: the Persian empires didn’t make as wide a use of cylinder seals, but the figures and what’s depicted don’t change much.
The type of clay will make a difference in your impression result. The clay you were using is not good for clay impressions. The clay is of equal importance as the Cylinder Seal used. Most likely, they used an oil coating to not allow the roller to remove clay from the blank that is used and soil the ID roller as it is pressed into the clay.
The concave shape provides the furrow lines top and bottom, sort of like our ruled paper lines we write between. In this case, it is to enclose the symbols for the transactions made by the owner of the cylinder seal, or to make it sharp and crisp. I imagine the mixture of the clay used for transactions was as closely guarded a secret as today's making of paper bills.@@cynvision
Making the surface wet helps a lot with clay shaping. Dipping the seal in water/oil/paint/other may have changed the result making it both easier to print and harder to replicate the results. Also, buying a seal with a saying, expression, sentence, mantra, prayer, and such would be an easy way for non literate folks to be able to "write" things relevant to them. Family crest equivalent, trade/employment certification, signature, are just some uses that could have been. Though I'm no specialist or expert here. Just postulating. Im a hobbyist who does a lot of "old world trades" for fun (clay bricks and molds, blacksmithing and bladesmithing, soft metal smelting, weaving, tool making, flint and glass knapping, and the such) I'm also not a purist/recreationist, just learning what people did before we did what we do. Learning about where we come from, in all ways. The ontario 98 ice storm really instilled in me the realisation that most of us are electricity away from not even knowing how to survive, but they thrived and got us here.
I have a feeling that so many cylinder seals are found precisely because they were forged so often. Regarding information security, I'm also reminded of when I saw the Magna Carta for the first time and noticed that it was written all the way to the edge of the paper. Turns out this was a way to ensure that words couldn't be added or trimmed off without it being very noticeable.
I was wondering how often they were forged, but seeing as it was used for thousands of years by a lot of people, it may be that forging it wasn't really worth it, but so many are found because it was so widely used for such a long time.
I lived in Japan for a couple years and they have something similar called a 'hanko'. It's a small cylinder with your own personal stamp on one end which you press into red ink and affix to official documents. I'm glad I kept mine!
I had a government sponsored teaching contract and was given one automatically. I'm not sure if every foreigner working in Japan is issued one or not or if there is a procedure for an individual to get one on their own.
It is interesting you mentioned that 3 AJAW sounded like a Mesoamerican Rap name, because it is understood that a common naming convention in the region was to name babies after the day they were born. AJAW is a month on the Mayan calendar so they were born on the 3rd day of the Ajaw month. Also, a bit of a nit pick, but it is pronounced 'Ah-How' by Mayan speakers today. The term Ajaw is generally associated with Lordship or Rulership, but its origins go back to roaming shamanic astronomers from a pre-Olmec society that used the positions of the stars to help determine the best time of year to plant Maize. I did my thesis research on this topic and it is absolutely fascinating. As to why the people of this region created cylinder seals and toys with wheels, and grand roads between cities, but there is no evidence for wheels being used for carts or transportation, I couldn't tell you.
I thought the wheel thing was because they lived mostly in the mountains, and it was impractical to have wheels you'd have to push/pull up and down steep mountains. Far more practical to just ride whatever mounts were native to the area. I may be totally wrong though, and certainly didn't write any thesis on them lol
@@elijahclaude3413isn't that for andean civilization? As far as i can tell, mesoamerican people don't even have large domesticated animal to ride or pull carts.
@@refindoazhar1507 Just looked it up, you're right, they didn't have draft animals. They just walked lol. And used boats along the coast. They used slaves to carry things usually.
I am OBSESSED with beads and this makes me think so much about trade beads! I actually have two ancient-looking, very crude clay beads with weird unique markings on them, that I'm looking at in a new light now... So much to learn about BEADS. Thank you! Edit: I could definitely convert a 2D image into a 3D-printed cylinder seal. I don't think there's a market for that? But it sounds cool to me. I am going to make my own.
Oooh I bet people who work with clay could use that! I've seen a couple in the comments here... Also, I remember having a pen in elementary school that had a cylinder at the top with a design embossed to roll in ink and then on paper to transfer the design, that may work as well? That'd probably need an absorbent material...
9:35 _Well as is so happens!_ There is an old record of exactly that: an older generation lamenting how paper is phasing-out the use of tablets, even pondering something to the tune of "what will these kids do when they run out of paper?" I think I first heard of it from a Vsauce video, but it's been so long that I honestly can't remember. Shouldn't be hard to Google, though, I'd imagine.
I carve fire agate, which is made from and enveloped inside of chalcedony (pronounced cal-sid-in-ee, btw). ...And to say I am impressed with the level of detail that ancient specimen made from chalcedony showed, is a crazy understatement. I have a top-of-the-line, industry-specific rotary tool and bits made for gemstone carving, and can only recently say comparable skill has been unlocked in my repertoire. Wow.
Im always amazed by how smart even amcient humans were, in our modern world we like to think of them as stupid but when all you got is time and trial and error you can get some pretty fucking cool things
I visited Persepolis as a young man. What most impressed me was the quality of the stone carving, some of which was better than anything we can do today. The ancients may have been ancient -- but they weren't less capable or intelligent!
When you are lookin for clay, look for ceramic clay. There are plenty of things like modeling clay and other polymer clays that don't behave quite like ceramics.
The analogy is not crypto (which is theoretically a unit of currency) but instead the analogy would be to a public key used for encryption, or a fingerprint, or similar. The seals were for validating IDENTITY. By "crypto", I'm assuming you are referring to blockchain, which does not have validating identity as its purpose - the purpose is instead validating transaction history. Very different things.
You're only halfway correct here. Blockchains use public and private keys for authentication. Only the owner of the private keys can perform transactions on its behalf, and they can even include metadata such as text messages with that transaction. It cannot be forged, it cannot be modified. It's stored on a globally accessible database that everyone has access to, nobody has control over, and nobody can shut down. People take this a step further by building on-chain identities. This is especially the case with NFT ownership. Nobody in NFTs cares if you right-click save the image (many would prefer if you do, actually). What's important is the cryptographic token behind the NFT, providing a digital signature of who created it and providing provenance to it. This becomes more apparent when you realize people actually assign unique on-chain names to their public addresses so they become humanly readable instead of a long string of hex. People often use NFTs as their on-chain identity as they're the only true owner of the NFT. If anyone re-uploads a forgery, everyone can tell it's fake. Nobody bothers with fakes, they have no value, it's part of why artists don't really have to worry about re-uploads of their works as NFTs because nobody falls for those. They want the authenticity, and sometimes owning an authentic token comes with exclusive benefits such as acting as a pass to IRL parties. Trying to get into one with a fake is impossible. An example of this is a 3D model I commissioned from one of my favorite artists. They made it as an NFT for me, everyone can see what I paid for that commission too. We didn't have to exchange any personal information such as email, bank accounts, or PayPal (which doxes you during transactions) in order for them to receive instant payment from me across the globe. Without knowing any personal information, they could identify that I was the one who sent the money, and I could verify that they were the one who received it. This adds social proofs to their on-chain identity as they network with more people who have established on-chain history. My wallet is public, everyone can see what I commission and if they like a particular image in my collection they can easily trace back the original artist of those works to see their full portfolios without ever contacting them or me. My 3D model NFT also acts as a cryptographic key that allows me to download the model associated with it. The NFT itself acts as validator, and right click saving the video associated with the NFT doesn't give you that ability. So to say crypto is just a theoretical unit of currency completely misses the entire "crypto" part. It's cryptography. In the end it's private and public keys, validating each other online. Transactions are just one (very important) usecase of the technology because trade is a cornerstone of human civilization.
And I thought NFT's was a stupid joke.. well fuck me I've got to study hard on the universe if the magic of NFT's. Thanks for the peek into a whole new universe. Damn I am getting to old for starting from zero knowledge..😮💨
The wallet is the identity, the address of your wallet is the public key. Blockchain records transactions between identities The private key allows you to access your funds and send them somewhere else
Joe & Co., any way you guys could do a video on that whole tulip mania/ bubble back in the early 1600's? Since we're talking about crypto it reminded me of that. Thanks!
That was a fascinating story. I can't remember the name of the book in which I read about it, but IIRC, it also covered potatoes and marijuana. So interesting how plants and economies influence the other.
Seals are still used in parts of East Asia. Documents are first signed in the local language or Chinese; Then a seal is put partially over the signature. This is still used, in the USA, for professional documents. Many states allow ink seals; some states, including, mine requires impression seals, as they cannot be copied in a copier, like ink seals.
I’ve been a fan for over 2 days now and your entertaining and have intelligent things to talk about i love ancient history. Thanks for sharing glad i discovered your channel.
Soon as you mentioned the name I knew I had seen them before, in various museums. I even had a few (replicas, obviously) as a child. We even made our own in arts and craft class in primary school.
Dude, I always loved Arts & Crafts time in grade school, feeling a little logy after a starchy lunch...AND you're telling me a story, too! How cool. Some things never change. I feel a nap coming on...for real...thx for the memories...
About clay: clay sticks more to non-porous materials. If your replica is smooth plastic or metal, this will affect ease of use. Wetter clay is also stickier than a slightly dried/doughy mass. Glad to see pieces from the Spurlock collection. That museum is very cool.
8:10 it's very possible that they were made by order to a craftsman and finished in detail specific by the owner. Several were found where the type of line involved in the more intricate details (humans, animals, motifs) were different from the simplistic ones (lines, dots, spirals). 2FA from the other day.
This is off the usual path for this channel, but I'm totally here for it! I'm low key fascinated by day to day life in the late Stone Age and early Bronze Age. I feel like people forget about those eras, and think of "ancient history" as being ancient Greece and the Roman empire, ignoring the fact that there's thousands of years of civilization and culture that predate them.
Well, you should have heated your cylinder seal before using it, this actually makes a bit difference in regards of the imprint. Even 5°C will give you a way more pronounced stamping effect And those seals are also legal as signatures today, as long as you use a seal or a signet rign to give your very first signature on your ID, as the only thing that makes your signature legally binding is it actually being the signature you use on your ID. Therefore if you use a signet ring to stamp-sign your ID, this signet-ring is your official, legally binding signature ;) And no, your signature don't need to be your name, it can indeed be [pointing guy][seagull][chariot]straw reed] *g* The only reason we started to use our names as signatures is that it's convenient the most convenient thing to do
They still exist in Japan. It's called a hanko (specifically a Jitsu-in), a personal stamp one uses on all official notarised documents, and it is I believe a legal requirement. It's also used in other areas where a signature is required, like at the bank, paying bills, signing for packages etc.
Us gaijin are still allowed to sign our old John Hancock for most things, but I had to make a hanko for official stuff. Every time I use it, I wonder how easy it would be to copy one, but apparently it doesn't happen often (this is Japan we're talking about after all).
With the mezoamerican ones, there's also the possibility that they weren't as seals, but something like a decorative piece though it might have been a kind of makers mark. Having roller stamps for more popular designs for pottery or your personal mark for identifying which ones you made could fit there easily enough.
I've been amazed at the intricate designs of some original Roman or Egyptian Signet rings. One tidbit you left out, is when it came to famous "signatures" like Julius Caesar. They were known. Pliny talked about them, as a rare autograph. But they probably no longer exist (and what would it look like, with Roman numerals?) Most likely, is Caesar "signed" the vast majority of his writings, using a decorative seal or "signet" ring, which no one could forge, except upon pain of death.
In 1833. Theophilus Pinches presented his translation a Sumerian Tablet about 4,000 years old, to the Royal Asian Society in London. This tablet described the new rulers of the region, as Marduk and his son, Nabu-Sin, and his grandson. Abram is mentioned for his journey to Harran to settle his father's and older-brother's estate. Theophilus Pinches died in 1834.
"I'm not saying these two ancient civilizations had contact. ... But I'm not NOT saying it." Has anyone considered that some couple thousand years ago, a cylinder seal washed up on a beach, someone went "this is the coolest thing I HAVE EVER SEEN" and then just copied it on their half of the world
6:30 The imprint will become clearer and natural clay of the right humidty _(dont exactly know what you where using, looks like some modern craft-store plastics clay)_ wont cling to the profile when you use a seperating agent. Spit or water will do in a pinch, some vegetable oil or soapy solution work better. I got really good results with a spray of WD40. _(warning, oily stuff wont work with plastics clay, which often is is oleaginophile)_ Just spread a film on the whole seal surface. Since it seperates much easier, you can impress harder and get clearer imprints. Also: I would have loved for you to talk about the "hidden delivery slip" technique those where used for. Imagine a trader sending his trading partner months away some goods - 24 pots of honey, 18 of date sirup, 12 pounds of copper and 8 camels for example. How would he or his partner make sure the caravan-guys on the way - often different ones for different legs of the journey - dont skimp? Easy!: The sender takes small markers illustrating the wares - 24 white pebbles, 18 brown ones, 12 pomegrenate seeds, 8 sheep teeth. Kneads them into a clay clump, smothes the surface, and marks the outside with his seal. That clump gets dried and goes on the journey with the delivery. Caravaners hand it off to each other with the goods _(in part packing on their own layer of clay and marking it by their seal, thus proving chain of custody documentation)._ And in the end the recipient cracks it open, counts the markers, compares to delivery - bingo. Since a few of those clumps have been found, opened and closed _(not many since their function encompasses destruction and unburnt clay doesnt preserve all that well),_ at this point that techiqe seems to be a rather solid scientific consent. And its sooo frigging brilliant!
I would imagine that the tools used to roll them were often made of wood, easier to replicate and replace as they became worn over time as they were used. That might also explain why the tools themselves are harder to find intact. I can picture them being what is essentially a waxed or oiled spindle or dowel with decorative wood, stone, or metal caps or nubs on each end, to be pinched between the finger and thumb to make it easy to sign with one hand. Perhaps with holes or loops on one end to hang on a string, chain, or hook.
Dude, the design mechanism of rolling to get the full image? Flawless, amazing, superb, genius, delightful. Can I send a compliment letter back in time to the inventor?
I wonder if there is a link between dyslexia and the stone cutters. Maybe it provided enough selection pressure that people who see things backwards excelled at the craft. Meaning they could provide for their children and pass down their genes.
Well dyslexia is linked to better "3d thinking" or spatial visualization. So ya. It is probably even older then homo-sapians, going back to making tools long before modern humans, back when we napped our stones and do not appear to have made stone structures Although there was a wooden structure found that pre-dates homo-sapians, so who really knows what they where fully up to, our most recent ancestors.
“Dyslexia“ is more of a symptom than a condition. There are several characteristics that can lead to this condition. I have a hereditary characteristic that causes me to be dyslexic. Both of my children and I score below the 1st percentile with regard to left-right sensitivity. So, in my case, I can definitely say that writing backwards is not at all difficult. I used write (in script) backwards and upside down so my stepmother couldn’t understand what I wrote in my journal. When it comes to reading English, it’s a disadvantage because there are several mirror-image pairs in the alphabet. However, there’s a lot of things for which this is actually an advantage. Interestingly, there are over 2000 commonly used characters in the Japanese language. So far I’ve only found two, さ and ち, which are mirror images. When I write them, I do so in such a way that they are no longer mirror images, but in print, they are often as shown above and I have to stop and think about which character I’m looking at. From what I understand, dyslexia is much less common among native speakers of Japanese than among native speakers of English.
1:55 - That's not the U.S. GPO "Seal" as stated that's just the modern "logo" but rather the seal is the long-used mark of authentication and looks quite different. (I'll attempt to post a link to the seal in a reply below.)
This does seem like a much better way to prevent faking than what we use today. The source isn't stored online, the impression is only as good as the source at that moment, there is only one source unless it has been duplicated by the owner. Sounds perfect to me.
To prevent clay from gumming up your seal, before you roll it, sprinkle some fine dust/sand/powder on the clay. It'll work like flouring a surface before making cookies.
I dont know how everyone else feels, but I can't handle that background track during the introduction. Its too discordant from what youre saying, and my audio tactile synesthesia makes it feel like I'm watching a ping pong game and youre trying to tell us this while sitting on the table as the game goes around you.
It’s been a dream of mine to find enough time to learn to read Sumerian. Given the amount of information left to discover on the vast quantities of cuneiform tablets, it’d be fascinating.
I was just at an archeological museum in Cuenca, Ecuador last week. They had numerous examples of Incan cylinder seals. We were able to try out replicas as well. Speaking of Graham Hancock, they also had headrests that could easily have been identified as Japanese. However, these had come from sites within Ecuador. Coincidence? More parallel thinking? Or had there been some trans Pacific contact as the museum itself hinted at? How about trans Atlantic for that matter? While I admittedly don't know, I think we don't give enough credit to our ancestors and believe there is some evidence for contact between the continents. Most likely it was sporadic and accidental, but then again, maybe not.
There are so many problems with Hancock. "Because they look similar" is not a reason for anything at all. If you want to give credit to ancestors, you can think of how cool it is that a bunch of different intelligent people independently came up with a number of things rather than there just being a one really smart person in one country or something.
Poorer people who couldn't afford to have a seal made used oblong stones with irregular chunks carved out of them. Those aren't as neat to look at but lots of them have also been found.
Neat. Dunno what it has to do with crypto though, beyond "can be used to identify yourself". I mean, are signatures crypto then? They still use signature seal/stamps in Japan a lot I think, is that crypto?
> I mean, are signatures crypto then? They still use signature seal/stamps in Japan a lot I think, is that crypto? Yes, it serves the same purpose. Only those stamps can very easily be forged so are a very weak form of proof. Crypto takes the role of the seal/stamp here, as any time you perform a transaction there's a digital signature attached that only you (as the owner of the crypto wallet) are able to make. It's not optional either, every single transaction is marked with your digital signature. Everyone can audit these signatures, because they're written on a public database that cannot be modified, shut down, and isn't owned by anyone. All transactions on these networks are stored indefinitely, forever. You can trace back every single transaction since the start of these networks. This becomes more important when you realize people attach unique names to their wallets to publicly identify them and all transactions they do.
@@MagusDevon "everyone can audit", provided you wanna download tons of gigabytes and wait ages for that to complete, which is kind of a downside to it heh My question was "is signature crypto then" not "can signature be used as crypto" "A is B" doesn't mean "B is A" after all
@@MaakaSakuranbo You don't have to download that if you want to audit. There are a plethora of public blockchain explorers that exist. I could easily send you transaction information to view on a browser of your phone whenever. If you wanted to verify someone's transactions or on-chain identity on Ethereum you could use Etherscan, for example.
@@MaakaSakuranbo Sure, though the public sources are pretty reputable and there are multiple of them to cross reference. Pretty much every wallet software for example pulls chain information for you to verify with, so you could always use multiple if you're worried about this. Though honestly it's never been an issue and it's really easy to call out so the moment any platform decides to try showing information's different than what's on-chain it'd be immediately called out and they'd obviously lose any financial support they have so it'd be pretty stupid on their part. They can't alter the chain, so it'd be pointless to display incorrect information from it. If you want your own personal reference, you don't have to download the entire chain data as most blockchains have light nodes that are designed to run on something as simple as a cell phone. You don't need a full node for just reading the chain, you'd only need to download that much for actually running a validator in most cases. All in all I'm no certain what you're even trying to imply here. The alternative you provided, using stamps to verify, has no easy way to cross reference for forgery.
If you read the original Bitcoin white paper, Satoshi Nakamoto designed it to be... like that cylinder. The coin was just to facilitate transactions within the network and a reward for early adopters. Which is why you have halveings in the block reward every four years. Satoshi designed the entire system to benefits its miners through transax fees.
Joe, iv gotta say this: For YEARS, iv been watchicng your videos. For YEARS you have entertained me and taught me things i didnt know. I am a very big fan and i love your sense of humour and you have the same kind of quriosity about everything in life that i have. For all of this, i am very thankfull. I dont have a lot of money. I am buildiing my own house, no loans/mortgage, no banks, no interest and i am going 3 years strong so far. The house is slowly getting shape. That being said, i did get the nebula deal you offered. Im loving it. Thank you very much for that. I truly wish i was capable of more but unfortunately, i am not. Going into my 3th winter without heating i feel very strong and blessed to be able to watch your videos. I just want to let you know that your videos make a big part of my week, and because iv been watching for years, my life. I am really thankfull for the fact that you make a lot of free videos for years now and i have seen them all. I wish i could give you something back. Who knows, maybe someday... Tldr: Thanks for all your videos. Thank you for all the time and work. It is truly appreciated.
TIP FOR JOE:dust the roller with cornstarch, cornflour or whatever it’s known as in the USA. Use a paint brush and lightly coat it, it’ll help the indents getting filled with clay ❤
As someone who works in security I can only imagine a world were people are trusted and none of our work was necessary and we could invest our time in creating a better world but that will absolutely never happen.
Current identity has nothing to do with blockchains. It’s odd that your research lead to that and not “identity providers”. I think you used that to lead into your ad read though and it’s also concerning that your sponsor has blockchain courses and not material on jwt and saml.
The Tallystick was a neat invention specifically solving the forged ledger issue. One of if not the most secure ledger systems of human history, deserving of a video!
Yes you should talk to people who work in clay for better results. In clay, dampening the seal before using it would keep the clay out of the crroks and crannies. The clay being signed needed to be a little dry. Etc.
There must have been some kind of watermark on the signatures that only a limited number of people knew about. I imagine there would have to be some kind of logistical control, in case a stamp was lost, stolen, counterfeit, key word of the day, watermark of the day. Interesting
Soichiro Honda (founder of Honda) created a fake family seal to forge his father’s stamp on his report card. When his father found out, he got punished, but not for the forgery. It was for how poorly he executed the forgery. Perfection and quality matter.
I work in a large aerospace company, let's call it Boeing, for 38 years. Anyway, we still use these today in our inspection areas, mostly in tooling departments. When certain "critical load" bolts are torqued to a specification, there is a small amount of putty applied to it and then the inspector will put his stamp on it. The putty is usually a bright color such as yellow or orange and is applied in a way that if the bolt or nut has worked loose, the putty will crack and you can easily see it during periodic inspections. I have seen them on actual airplane components in the past, but I don't recall seeing them like that anymore, but then again, I'm not out on the assemblies much these days.
Use water. The cylinder needs to be wet so the clay doesn't stick to the recessed areas and I'm sure they used a dowl rod to get a smoother, even, and deeper roll, like in miniatures terrain building we use textured rolling pin to create all sorts of impressions on various materials.
One big advantage to clay tablets is they could be dried or baked to prevent alterations of the official document. Downside is the size and weight and fragility of hardened clay. The advantage to papyrus is lightweight and more compact and not fragile, the permanent nature of ink made alteration difficult though not impossible. Wax seals were sometimes used on papyrus and paper documents to add extra security.
Cylinder seals are probably hard to fake, because if you take an impression from a signed document, then roll up the impression, features would get distorted in a characteristic fashion. To a trained eye, these distortions would indicate forgeries. I.e. they're ancient irreversible signatures.
The energy consumption for a single Bitcoin transaction is 703.25 kW/h with a carbon footprint of 969 kilograms of CO2, which is more or less equivalent to a flying London to New York and back. Something to think about next time you talk about crypto currency.
To prevent the small grooves from filling up and the small details from tearing off the tablet, put the tablet in front of a fan for a little while so the surface can dry some, or dust it with a bit of talcum powder.
The yellow Play Dough you used to test the seal was a poor material to use. As you were working it, it was obviously "springy" or "rubbery" It wanted to spring back when pushed on, which, is the opposite of what would have been used for the seals. I imagine either a wax or semi-soft clay would have been used.
Weirdly enough, I knew exactly what it is!!!! :) Cylinder seals are so freaking amazing as little works of art! Suggestion, if I may? Ancient coin production. Another really cool subject!
![Kodak Black - Catch Fire [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/A4ch-olIuZo/mqdefault.jpg)
In Japan, you need a seal and a signature for official document. You need to create a unique seal for yourself when you are in legal age to sign official document like opening a bank account or buying a house.
Korea as well
So, like a signet ring the Romans used?
@anselpeneloperainblossom-s3489 Technically it's a "stamp" but I have seen them on rings
Two factor auth then? :)
Yes 🙌 isn’t the Japanese story of origin very similar to ancient Sumerian mythology something about descendants from heaven… so many similarities. The royal sea of nibiru was a winged red disk same with Egypt and you find megalithic polygonal constructions as well as giant kofun swords fit for Gilgamesh. And the mountain gods who live in a volcano and the tall mountain spirits. The symbol for the origin myth even looks like the engineering cross section of a winged dragon. If only we could all step back and appreciate how much in common we all really have and that our differences are quite supplemental and refreshing to exchange. Deepest bow from America to our Japanese brothers and sisters. Need to learn from the polygonal megalith builders that our diversity makes us stronger together.
Back then crypto bros had to go blind the old fashioned way by staring at the sun.
Going blind the old fashioned way means something totally different to me.
HJHHAHHAHHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHA! Perfect. :)
LMFAO
@inversebrah
AHAHAHAHAHA
Another fascinating authentication technique used in Mesopotamia for particularly important documents was the use of envelopes. A clay tablet would be inscribed with a text and fired, and then inserted into a hollow enveloping shell of clay, on which they'd inscribe the same text. The envelope was then closed, and a stamp seal or cylinder seal would be used to seal it. So if there was ever any legal dispute over the authenticity of a document, the outer clay could be broken open, and the text on the inner tablet would be compared with the text on the envelope tablet to ensure that the text hadn't been forged or tampered with. In such cases, a document was often only admissible as evidence if it could be produced in its unopened envelope, to be broken open and examined by the law court. The use of an envelope plus a stamp/cylinder seal could be considered the earliest known method of two-factor authentication!
Oh my god, I wish I’d seen that for this video! Good share, thanks!
Seems similar to a digital signature, except that the hash is the whole text and the public key is a hammer.
This is a super cool bit of information!
I feel like this could be used in the modern age.
To check for fake ID'S and counterfeit bills
Reminds me of a society that was used to living advanced but then got stranded on a planet and did their best to replicate the tech they use to have
I dont actually think thats historically accurate, just a cool thought
In the UK here and when I took out a mortgage 30 years ago I was lucky enough to be offered the original
vellum copies attached to the property. They're covered in official seals, some straight on the vellum others
hanging by ribbons.
The bank gave them to me free because they were only going to throw them in the rubbish.
That is so cool!
I want to believe a beefeater carried it from the backroom with a cryer ringing a bell and announcing that the deed had been signed on this day of our Lord.
did they at least let you stamp them with your own wax seal? For fun?
That is soooo cool! I'd love to look at that. Did you know that England used to also use tally sticks to keep records? The practice was discontinued in 1826, but when the Exchequer tried to destroy a bunch of them several years later, they accidentally caused westminster palace to burn down. Getting rid of old records can be a real task!
Why would they throw them out vs. give them to the local town / municipal authority for their records? That sounds criminal from a historical preservation perspective.
As a full time career potter, I always use a release agent when stamping imagery or patterns into clay, for the sharpest details. My preference is usually olive oil, but thinner, lighter oils work well. Mineral oil, penetrating oil, canola oil, etc, could be dabbed on the image with a sponge dipped in oil and squeezed out somewhat.
Any dried clay should be wiped off with water. If you use a light oil, you can wipe that off with water as well. You don't have to be too worried about keeping the water and oil separate.
Love your channel, Joe.
I knew I was doing something wrong 😄
That was exactly my first thought at the 6:40 mark, and I'm not a potter.
is it just me or are the similarities between this and a fidget spinner remarkable?
I was going to suggest that, but you beat me to it, ha ha!
True story: When Tesla giga-castings are done (really massive chunks of metal!), the machines are coated with soybean oil so they release quickly and cleanly.
@@Syncrotron9001 Old shapes made new again!
Interesting 😊 As a ceramic artist (wannabee), I've purchased - and made - similar cylinders for imprinting unique textures into my work.
Helpful hint: you need to use some type of release agent on the cylinder (my favorite is WD40) to prevent clay boogers from getting stuck in the cylinder.
(Pretty sure the ancient Mesopotamians didn't have access to WD40!)
Ironically I had a can of WD-40 right next to me when recording that. 😄
I'd imagine they'd have used something like olive oil.
@@joescotthey could you tell what music was used in this part I have been asking for so long with no answers.
6:00 the advantages portion.
Perhaps WD-1?
Water?!😊
If anyone happens to be passing through NYC, you can see these at the Met and also at the Morgan Library and Museum. They have a whole slew of these things in one of the rooms in the original part of the house. A friend of mine and I went to see a show there at the beginning of the year called "She Wrote." It was about the first know authored piece of writing. Often, these cylinder seals were representations of quotes from Mesopotamian literature. The person who wrote the original hymns and poetry was a priestess named Enheduanna. Her hymns and exaltations were recorded and quoted from for centuries by Mesopotamian scribes. It would be like having a text from the bible or a line of Shakespeare or the Koran as one's signature.
Am I that big of a nerd that I knew what a Cylinder Seal was as soon as Joe held it up? I was so fascinated by them as a kid, that and cuneiform. Would love to get one of those! Awesome content as always, Joe!
Nope you're not alone. Though not as much as you, I too did recognize it. I was fascinated by the concept of fantasy world currencies which led me to historical real world currencies. And that led me to how they knew something was authentic or not.
@@redacted178 And who said having a love for fantasy was a waste of time? Sometimes fantasy worlds will peak our curiosity in exploring our own. It must of then been quite the treat to find out it was all real after all. Good on you, mate!
I’m a history nerd and I have never heard of them. I have no idea why and am ashamed, lol.
@@RabidChild82 Hey, we all can’t know everything. I bet you know things I’m not even aware of. But that’s what makes interacting with each other both fascinating and a necessity. We are meant to always be learning and filling in the gaps within our knowledge, and we can only do that together.
You are... and that puts you in really good company, here at least! 😁
A big advantage of a cylinder seal over a signet ring is the difficulty of constructing a forgery from an impression. This is relatively easy using plaster on a signet ring seal but would be very much more difficult to reconstruct a cylindrical surface.
True!
As much as i love your videos, i tried brilliant out and I literally completed 5 classes before having to correct like 3 answers they explained incorrectly and have since not used them. As much as learning can be fun, when there are no accreditation for their classes then there is no guarantee they present accurate info, you cant rely on them for accurate answers or a worthwhile education. I will continue to watch your amazing videos but I will never support failed education institutions. much love
I have done a few of their courses and noticed a lot of their questions and solutions are 'odd' at best, ranging from "That's weird, if I do it XYZ it works too' through to plain outright wrong. As if the quality control is lacking a lot of times.
(EDIT: Ironically enough for my complaining about quality control, I made typos. My excuse is. umm.. Look! A squirrel!)
yup, brilliant is garbage. No quality control whatsoever. It's just a pay per view version of youtube with a focus on supposedly educational content.
sounds like they're crowdsourcing the qa. brilliant!
Thank you for the honest review! As something that markets itself through science youtubers, that's extremely disappointing. I was about to say "maybe in the arts you'd get some value from amateurs sharing what works for them" but then I realized you can have a method or style _work_ but that doesn't mean there hasn't been something innovated that works _better_ . There's no use in an educational resource that doesn't fact-check itself.
@@ptonpc I did the Security+ exam earlier this year, and I found the official test question guide they publish through a partner to be rife with either outright incorrect answers, or only partially correct. Really irked me that I had to pay money for an "industry" certificate when I know that much of the material is not right. It's no wonder so many people barely pass or have to take it multiple times. If you learn the correct information, you're not guaranteed to have the "correct" answer for the test. I'm guessing Brilliant's similar?
I was in the Penn Museum the other week, and they had an entire wall of seal cylinders with blowups of what was on them. Super cool how little the art style changed from Ur to the Achaemenid and later sassanid empires. Edit for clarity: the Persian empires didn’t make as wide a use of cylinder seals, but the figures and what’s depicted don’t change much.
The type of clay will make a difference in your impression result. The clay you were using is not good for clay impressions. The clay is of equal importance as the Cylinder Seal used. Most likely, they used an oil coating to not allow the roller to remove clay from the blank that is used and soil the ID roller as it is pressed into the clay.
not certain the concave shape helps a good impression either
The concave shape provides the furrow lines top and bottom, sort of like our ruled paper lines we write between. In this case, it is to enclose the symbols for the transactions made by the owner of the cylinder seal, or to make it sharp and crisp. I imagine the mixture of the clay used for transactions was as closely guarded a secret as today's making of paper bills.@@cynvision
Making the surface wet helps a lot with clay shaping. Dipping the seal in water/oil/paint/other may have changed the result making it both easier to print and harder to replicate the results.
Also, buying a seal with a saying, expression, sentence, mantra, prayer, and such would be an easy way for non literate folks to be able to "write" things relevant to them.
Family crest equivalent, trade/employment certification, signature, are just some uses that could have been.
Though I'm no specialist or expert here. Just postulating.
Im a hobbyist who does a lot of "old world trades" for fun (clay bricks and molds, blacksmithing and bladesmithing, soft metal smelting, weaving, tool making, flint and glass knapping, and the such) I'm also not a purist/recreationist, just learning what people did before we did what we do. Learning about where we come from, in all ways.
The ontario 98 ice storm really instilled in me the realisation that most of us are electricity away from not even knowing how to survive, but they thrived and got us here.
I have a feeling that so many cylinder seals are found precisely because they were forged so often.
Regarding information security, I'm also reminded of when I saw the Magna Carta for the first time and noticed that it was written all the way to the edge of the paper. Turns out this was a way to ensure that words couldn't be added or trimmed off without it being very noticeable.
Dude, ancient information security
I was wondering how often they were forged, but seeing as it was used for thousands of years by a lot of people, it may be that forging it wasn't really worth it, but so many are found because it was so widely used for such a long time.
A famous Nigerian prince was making rounds in Mesopotamia.
I lived in Japan for a couple years and they have something similar called a 'hanko'. It's a small cylinder with your own personal stamp on one end which you press into red ink and affix to official documents. I'm glad I kept mine!
Is this registered with the government or how do you go about the process of getting one?
I had a government sponsored teaching contract and was given one automatically. I'm not sure if every foreigner working in Japan is issued one or not or if there is a procedure for an individual to get one on their own.
It is interesting you mentioned that 3 AJAW sounded like a Mesoamerican Rap name, because it is understood that a common naming convention in the region was to name babies after the day they were born. AJAW is a month on the Mayan calendar so they were born on the 3rd day of the Ajaw month. Also, a bit of a nit pick, but it is pronounced 'Ah-How' by Mayan speakers today. The term Ajaw is generally associated with Lordship or Rulership, but its origins go back to roaming shamanic astronomers from a pre-Olmec society that used the positions of the stars to help determine the best time of year to plant Maize. I did my thesis research on this topic and it is absolutely fascinating. As to why the people of this region created cylinder seals and toys with wheels, and grand roads between cities, but there is no evidence for wheels being used for carts or transportation, I couldn't tell you.
I thought the wheel thing was because they lived mostly in the mountains, and it was impractical to have wheels you'd have to push/pull up and down steep mountains. Far more practical to just ride whatever mounts were native to the area. I may be totally wrong though, and certainly didn't write any thesis on them lol
@@elijahclaude3413isn't that for andean civilization? As far as i can tell, mesoamerican people don't even have large domesticated animal to ride or pull carts.
@@refindoazhar1507 Just looked it up, you're right, they didn't have draft animals. They just walked lol. And used boats along the coast.
They used slaves to carry things usually.
I swear I learn more from my comments than I do in my research. This is fascinating, thanks for sharing!
We all do Joe.. We all do.😏
I am OBSESSED with beads and this makes me think so much about trade beads!
I actually have two ancient-looking, very crude clay beads with weird unique markings on them, that I'm looking at in a new light now... So much to learn about BEADS.
Thank you!
Edit: I could definitely convert a 2D image into a 3D-printed cylinder seal. I don't think there's a market for that? But it sounds cool to me. I am going to make my own.
Oooh I bet people who work with clay could use that! I've seen a couple in the comments here... Also, I remember having a pen in elementary school that had a cylinder at the top with a design embossed to roll in ink and then on paper to transfer the design, that may work as well? That'd probably need an absorbent material...
Why didn't they make cylinder seals out of iron?
Because blacksmiths would forge them.
9:35
_Well as is so happens!_
There is an old record of exactly that: an older generation lamenting how paper is phasing-out the use of tablets, even pondering something to the tune of "what will these kids do when they run out of paper?"
I think I first heard of it from a Vsauce video, but it's been so long that I honestly can't remember. Shouldn't be hard to Google, though, I'd imagine.
"How would our records survive a fire? They would be lost forever! I'll stick to my clay tablets, thank you very much. Woke liberals, be damned!"
I carve fire agate, which is made from and enveloped inside of chalcedony (pronounced cal-sid-in-ee, btw).
...And to say I am impressed with the level of detail that ancient specimen made from chalcedony showed, is a crazy understatement. I have a top-of-the-line, industry-specific rotary tool and bits made for gemstone carving, and can only recently say comparable skill has been unlocked in my repertoire. Wow.
Im always amazed by how smart even amcient humans were, in our modern world we like to think of them as stupid but when all you got is time and trial and error you can get some pretty fucking cool things
Kal-said-oh-knee
I visited Persepolis as a young man. What most impressed me was the quality of the stone carving, some of which was better than anything we can do today. The ancients may have been ancient -- but they weren't less capable or intelligent!
@@esoniqplyr1 I've heard it that way more at gem shows, so it's probably the correct way.
@@esoniqplyr1also, puh-PIE-russ.
When you are lookin for clay, look for ceramic clay. There are plenty of things like modeling clay and other polymer clays that don't behave quite like ceramics.
The analogy is not crypto (which is theoretically a unit of currency) but instead the analogy would be to a public key used for encryption, or a fingerprint, or similar. The seals were for validating IDENTITY. By "crypto", I'm assuming you are referring to blockchain, which does not have validating identity as its purpose - the purpose is instead validating transaction history. Very different things.
You're only halfway correct here. Blockchains use public and private keys for authentication. Only the owner of the private keys can perform transactions on its behalf, and they can even include metadata such as text messages with that transaction. It cannot be forged, it cannot be modified. It's stored on a globally accessible database that everyone has access to, nobody has control over, and nobody can shut down.
People take this a step further by building on-chain identities. This is especially the case with NFT ownership. Nobody in NFTs cares if you right-click save the image (many would prefer if you do, actually). What's important is the cryptographic token behind the NFT, providing a digital signature of who created it and providing provenance to it. This becomes more apparent when you realize people actually assign unique on-chain names to their public addresses so they become humanly readable instead of a long string of hex. People often use NFTs as their on-chain identity as they're the only true owner of the NFT. If anyone re-uploads a forgery, everyone can tell it's fake. Nobody bothers with fakes, they have no value, it's part of why artists don't really have to worry about re-uploads of their works as NFTs because nobody falls for those. They want the authenticity, and sometimes owning an authentic token comes with exclusive benefits such as acting as a pass to IRL parties. Trying to get into one with a fake is impossible.
An example of this is a 3D model I commissioned from one of my favorite artists. They made it as an NFT for me, everyone can see what I paid for that commission too. We didn't have to exchange any personal information such as email, bank accounts, or PayPal (which doxes you during transactions) in order for them to receive instant payment from me across the globe. Without knowing any personal information, they could identify that I was the one who sent the money, and I could verify that they were the one who received it.
This adds social proofs to their on-chain identity as they network with more people who have established on-chain history. My wallet is public, everyone can see what I commission and if they like a particular image in my collection they can easily trace back the original artist of those works to see their full portfolios without ever contacting them or me. My 3D model NFT also acts as a cryptographic key that allows me to download the model associated with it. The NFT itself acts as validator, and right click saving the video associated with the NFT doesn't give you that ability.
So to say crypto is just a theoretical unit of currency completely misses the entire "crypto" part. It's cryptography. In the end it's private and public keys, validating each other online. Transactions are just one (very important) usecase of the technology because trade is a cornerstone of human civilization.
And I thought NFT's was a stupid joke.. well fuck me I've got to study hard on the universe if the magic of NFT's. Thanks for the peek into a whole new universe. Damn I am getting to old for starting from zero knowledge..😮💨
The wallet is the identity, the address of your wallet is the public key. Blockchain records transactions between identities
The private key allows you to access your funds and send them somewhere else
I like this theme of old tech solutions to modern problems... it is pretty fascinating!
Joe - thank you for years of AMAZING content!
Glad you enjoy it!
Joe & Co., any way you guys could do a video on that whole tulip mania/ bubble back in the early 1600's? Since we're talking about crypto it reminded me of that. Thanks!
That was a fascinating story. I can't remember the name of the book in which I read about it, but IIRC, it also covered potatoes and marijuana. So interesting how plants and economies influence the other.
Fascinating, that's why I love this channel, it always provides lots of interesting stuff I've never heard of, always learning. Keep them coming Joe!!
Thank you very much!
Seals are still used in parts of East Asia. Documents are first signed in the local language or Chinese; Then a seal is put partially over the signature. This is still used, in the USA, for professional documents. Many states allow ink seals; some states, including, mine requires impression seals, as they cannot be copied in a copier, like ink seals.
So true. You are right. What state are you in?
I’ve been a fan for over 2 days now and your entertaining and have intelligent things to talk about i love ancient history. Thanks for sharing glad i discovered your channel.
Soon as you mentioned the name I knew I had seen them before, in various museums. I even had a few (replicas, obviously) as a child. We even made our own in arts and craft class in primary school.
Dude, I always loved Arts & Crafts time in grade school, feeling a little logy after a starchy lunch...AND you're telling me a story, too! How cool. Some things never change. I feel a nap coming on...for real...thx for the memories...
BONUS! It's the perfect Etsy video testimonial!
The big difference is there are actual uses for the cylinder unlike crypto
mesopotamia: *has a form of signature thats a cylinder to roll on clay*
crypto bro: OMG ITS LIKE BLOCK CHAIN ‼️‼️‼️
As someone who does pottery the issues you described when trying your replica out are just the struggles of clay stamping unfortunately 😭
Probably applied some oil to prevent clay from sticking to the cylinder prior to rolling. Basically release oil similar to concrete forms
About clay: clay sticks more to non-porous materials. If your replica is smooth plastic or metal, this will affect ease of use. Wetter clay is also stickier than a slightly dried/doughy mass.
Glad to see pieces from the Spurlock collection. That museum is very cool.
8:10 it's very possible that they were made by order to a craftsman and finished in detail specific by the owner. Several were found where the type of line involved in the more intricate details (humans, animals, motifs) were different from the simplistic ones (lines, dots, spirals). 2FA from the other day.
This is off the usual path for this channel, but I'm totally here for it! I'm low key fascinated by day to day life in the late Stone Age and early Bronze Age. I feel like people forget about those eras, and think of "ancient history" as being ancient Greece and the Roman empire, ignoring the fact that there's thousands of years of civilization and culture that predate them.
Were you using Play-doh for your cylinder seal? If so, I wonder if real clay would return a better result?
Well, you should have heated your cylinder seal before using it, this actually makes a bit difference in regards of the imprint. Even 5°C will give you a way more pronounced stamping effect
And those seals are also legal as signatures today, as long as you use a seal or a signet rign to give your very first signature on your ID, as the only thing that makes your signature legally binding is it actually being the signature you use on your ID. Therefore if you use a signet ring to stamp-sign your ID, this signet-ring is your official, legally binding signature ;)
And no, your signature don't need to be your name, it can indeed be [pointing guy][seagull][chariot]straw reed] *g*
The only reason we started to use our names as signatures is that it's convenient the most convenient thing to do
They still exist in Japan. It's called a hanko (specifically a Jitsu-in), a personal stamp one uses on all official notarised documents, and it is I believe a legal requirement. It's also used in other areas where a signature is required, like at the bank, paying bills, signing for packages etc.
Us gaijin are still allowed to sign our old John Hancock for most things, but I had to make a hanko for official stuff. Every time I use it, I wonder how easy it would be to copy one, but apparently it doesn't happen often (this is Japan we're talking about after all).
@@tonewise2 my #gaijinlife ended 12 years ago. Nice to see nothing much has changed 🤣
With the mezoamerican ones, there's also the possibility that they weren't as seals, but something like a decorative piece though it might have been a kind of makers mark. Having roller stamps for more popular designs for pottery or your personal mark for identifying which ones you made could fit there easily enough.
I've been amazed at the intricate designs of some original Roman or Egyptian Signet rings. One tidbit you left out, is when it came to famous "signatures" like Julius Caesar. They were known. Pliny talked about them, as a rare autograph. But they probably no longer exist (and what would it look like, with Roman numerals?) Most likely, is Caesar "signed" the vast majority of his writings, using a decorative seal or "signet" ring, which no one could forge, except upon pain of death.
In 1833. Theophilus Pinches presented his translation a Sumerian Tablet about 4,000 years old, to the Royal Asian Society in London.
This tablet described the new rulers of the region, as Marduk and his son, Nabu-Sin, and his grandson. Abram is mentioned for his journey to Harran to settle his father's and older-brother's estate. Theophilus Pinches died in 1834.
"I'm not saying these two ancient civilizations had contact. ... But I'm not NOT saying it." Has anyone considered that some couple thousand years ago, a cylinder seal washed up on a beach, someone went "this is the coolest thing I HAVE EVER SEEN" and then just copied it on their half of the world
Ahh, I think it would sink
6:30 The imprint will become clearer and natural clay of the right humidty _(dont exactly know what you where using, looks like some modern craft-store plastics clay)_ wont cling to the profile when you use a seperating agent.
Spit or water will do in a pinch, some vegetable oil or soapy solution work better. I got really good results with a spray of WD40. _(warning, oily stuff wont work with plastics clay, which often is is oleaginophile)_
Just spread a film on the whole seal surface.
Since it seperates much easier, you can impress harder and get clearer imprints.
Also: I would have loved for you to talk about the "hidden delivery slip" technique those where used for.
Imagine a trader sending his trading partner months away some goods - 24 pots of honey, 18 of date sirup, 12 pounds of copper and 8 camels for example.
How would he or his partner make sure the caravan-guys on the way - often different ones for different legs of the journey - dont skimp?
Easy!: The sender takes small markers illustrating the wares - 24 white pebbles, 18 brown ones, 12 pomegrenate seeds, 8 sheep teeth.
Kneads them into a clay clump, smothes the surface, and marks the outside with his seal.
That clump gets dried and goes on the journey with the delivery.
Caravaners hand it off to each other with the goods _(in part packing on their own layer of clay and marking it by their seal, thus proving chain of custody documentation)._
And in the end the recipient cracks it open, counts the markers, compares to delivery - bingo.
Since a few of those clumps have been found, opened and closed _(not many since their function encompasses destruction and unburnt clay doesnt preserve all that well),_ at this point that techiqe seems to be a rather solid scientific consent.
And its sooo frigging brilliant!
I would imagine that the tools used to roll them were often made of wood, easier to replicate and replace as they became worn over time as they were used. That might also explain why the tools themselves are harder to find intact. I can picture them being what is essentially a waxed or oiled spindle or dowel with decorative wood, stone, or metal caps or nubs on each end, to be pinched between the finger and thumb to make it easy to sign with one hand. Perhaps with holes or loops on one end to hang on a string, chain, or hook.
Dude, the design mechanism of rolling to get the full image? Flawless, amazing, superb, genius, delightful. Can I send a compliment letter back in time to the inventor?
"It walks you through history of currency,... and then how cryptocurrency 'solves' those problems"
Are you sure about that?
Those rollers would get oiled or waxed depending on what they were made from. This would act like a release agent and would keep the rollers clean.
I wonder if there is a link between dyslexia and the stone cutters. Maybe it provided enough selection pressure that people who see things backwards excelled at the craft. Meaning they could provide for their children and pass down their genes.
Well dyslexia is linked to better "3d thinking" or spatial visualization.
So ya. It is probably even older then homo-sapians, going back to making tools long before modern humans, back when we napped our stones and do not appear to have made stone structures
Although there was a wooden structure found that pre-dates homo-sapians, so who really knows what they where fully up to, our most recent ancestors.
“Dyslexia“ is more of a symptom than a condition. There are several characteristics that can lead to this condition.
I have a hereditary characteristic that causes me to be dyslexic. Both of my children and I score below the 1st percentile with regard to left-right sensitivity. So, in my case, I can definitely say that writing backwards is not at all difficult. I used write (in script) backwards and upside down so my stepmother couldn’t understand what I wrote in my journal. When it comes to reading English, it’s a disadvantage because there are several mirror-image pairs in the alphabet. However, there’s a lot of things for which this is actually an advantage.
Interestingly, there are over 2000 commonly used characters in the Japanese language. So far I’ve only found two, さ and ち, which are mirror images. When I write them, I do so in such a way that they are no longer mirror images, but in print, they are often as shown above and I have to stop and think about which character I’m looking at. From what I understand, dyslexia is much less common among native speakers of Japanese than among native speakers of English.
1:55 - That's not the U.S. GPO "Seal" as stated that's just the modern "logo" but rather the seal is the long-used mark of authentication and looks quite different.
(I'll attempt to post a link to the seal in a reply below.)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Seal_of_the_United_States_Government_Printing_Office.svg
9:20 did you really pronounce "papyrus" as "pap-perus"? LMAO.
This does seem like a much better way to prevent faking than what we use today. The source isn't stored online, the impression is only as good as the source at that moment, there is only one source unless it has been duplicated by the owner. Sounds perfect to me.
Never heard “Pap-uh-ris” always heard “pap-eye-ris”
To prevent clay from gumming up your seal, before you roll it, sprinkle some fine dust/sand/powder on the clay. It'll work like flouring a surface before making cookies.
I dont know how everyone else feels, but I can't handle that background track during the introduction. Its too discordant from what youre saying, and my audio tactile synesthesia makes it feel like I'm watching a ping pong game and youre trying to tell us this while sitting on the table as the game goes around you.
It’s been a dream of mine to find enough time to learn to read Sumerian. Given the amount of information left to discover on the vast quantities of cuneiform tablets, it’d be fascinating.
I was just at an archeological museum in Cuenca, Ecuador last week. They had numerous examples of Incan cylinder seals. We were able to try out replicas as well. Speaking of Graham Hancock, they also had headrests that could easily have been identified as Japanese. However, these had come from sites within Ecuador. Coincidence? More parallel thinking? Or had there been some trans Pacific contact as the museum itself hinted at? How about trans Atlantic for that matter? While I admittedly don't know, I think we don't give enough credit to our ancestors and believe there is some evidence for contact between the continents. Most likely it was sporadic and accidental, but then again, maybe not.
There are so many problems with Hancock. "Because they look similar" is not a reason for anything at all. If you want to give credit to ancestors, you can think of how cool it is that a bunch of different intelligent people independently came up with a number of things rather than there just being a one really smart person in one country or something.
There are indications that there were long distance trade routes a lot further back than we think. Even if the peoples didn't meet face to face.
Poorer people who couldn't afford to have a seal made used oblong stones with irregular chunks carved out of them. Those aren't as neat to look at but lots of them have also been found.
Cool piece of history and also a fair take on the basic use case for crypto. 👍
Your smart
Hey Stuart 👋
you know it is good when you get the tangent cam right at the start!
Neat. Dunno what it has to do with crypto though, beyond "can be used to identify yourself". I mean, are signatures crypto then? They still use signature seal/stamps in Japan a lot I think, is that crypto?
> I mean, are signatures crypto then? They still use signature seal/stamps in Japan a lot I think, is that crypto?
Yes, it serves the same purpose. Only those stamps can very easily be forged so are a very weak form of proof.
Crypto takes the role of the seal/stamp here, as any time you perform a transaction there's a digital signature attached that only you (as the owner of the crypto wallet) are able to make. It's not optional either, every single transaction is marked with your digital signature. Everyone can audit these signatures, because they're written on a public database that cannot be modified, shut down, and isn't owned by anyone. All transactions on these networks are stored indefinitely, forever. You can trace back every single transaction since the start of these networks. This becomes more important when you realize people attach unique names to their wallets to publicly identify them and all transactions they do.
@@MagusDevon "everyone can audit", provided you wanna download tons of gigabytes and wait ages for that to complete, which is kind of a downside to it heh
My question was "is signature crypto then" not "can signature be used as crypto"
"A is B" doesn't mean "B is A" after all
@@MaakaSakuranbo You don't have to download that if you want to audit. There are a plethora of public blockchain explorers that exist. I could easily send you transaction information to view on a browser of your phone whenever.
If you wanted to verify someone's transactions or on-chain identity on Ethereum you could use Etherscan, for example.
@@MagusDevon Public means you now have to trust the source again
@@MaakaSakuranbo Sure, though the public sources are pretty reputable and there are multiple of them to cross reference. Pretty much every wallet software for example pulls chain information for you to verify with, so you could always use multiple if you're worried about this. Though honestly it's never been an issue and it's really easy to call out so the moment any platform decides to try showing information's different than what's on-chain it'd be immediately called out and they'd obviously lose any financial support they have so it'd be pretty stupid on their part. They can't alter the chain, so it'd be pointless to display incorrect information from it.
If you want your own personal reference, you don't have to download the entire chain data as most blockchains have light nodes that are designed to run on something as simple as a cell phone. You don't need a full node for just reading the chain, you'd only need to download that much for actually running a validator in most cases.
All in all I'm no certain what you're even trying to imply here. The alternative you provided, using stamps to verify, has no easy way to cross reference for forgery.
For reciepts they would break a stick in half. The two halves wouldnt line up with any other sticks
I see how this could conceivably be used as part of a movable type system. Kinda like those old date changing ink stamps.
Are you familiar with the Phaistos Disc? Basically a Middle-Late Bronze Age example of exactly that.
If you read the original Bitcoin white paper, Satoshi Nakamoto designed it to be... like that cylinder. The coin was just to facilitate transactions within the network and a reward for early adopters.
Which is why you have halveings in the block reward every four years. Satoshi designed the entire system to benefits its miners through transax fees.
Joe, iv gotta say this:
For YEARS, iv been watchicng your videos. For YEARS you have entertained me and taught me things i didnt know. I am a very big fan and i love your sense of humour and you have the same kind of quriosity about everything in life that i have.
For all of this, i am very thankfull.
I dont have a lot of money. I am buildiing my own house, no loans/mortgage, no banks, no interest and i am going 3 years strong so far. The house is slowly getting shape.
That being said, i did get the nebula deal you offered. Im loving it. Thank you very much for that. I truly wish i was capable of more but unfortunately, i am not. Going into my 3th winter without heating i feel very strong and blessed to be able to watch your videos. I just want to let you know that your videos make a big part of my week, and because iv been watching for years, my life. I am really thankfull for the fact that you make a lot of free videos for years now and i have seen them all. I wish i could give you something back. Who knows, maybe someday...
Tldr:
Thanks for all your videos. Thank you for all the time and work. It is truly appreciated.
I love your videos.
TIP FOR JOE:dust the roller with cornstarch, cornflour or whatever it’s known as in the USA. Use a paint brush and lightly coat it, it’ll help the indents getting filled with clay ❤
Its pap-eye-russ.
As someone who works in security I can only imagine a world were people are trusted and none of our work was necessary and we could invest our time in creating a better world but that will absolutely never happen.
Olive oil for a release agent
I like the new title, more approachable, makes more sense.
Current identity has nothing to do with blockchains. It’s odd that your research lead to that and not “identity providers”. I think you used that to lead into your ad read though and it’s also concerning that your sponsor has blockchain courses and not material on jwt and saml.
The Tallystick was a neat invention specifically solving the forged ledger issue.
One of if not the most secure ledger systems of human history, deserving of a video!
[skipped filler]
Yes you should talk to people who work in clay for better results. In clay, dampening the seal before using it would keep the clay out of the crroks and crannies. The clay being signed needed to be a little dry. Etc.
Shilling Crypto Joe ?
There must have been some kind of watermark on the signatures that only a limited number of people knew about. I imagine there would have to be some kind of logistical control, in case a stamp was lost, stolen, counterfeit, key word of the day, watermark of the day. Interesting
First comment‼️ Show me da love ❤️
My first first 😂😂
I was just excited to be first 🤓
I do think “this was the docusign of…” would be a better title though.
❤
I love that your videos don't sound like you're reading from a script and sounds like you're just talking to us.
Soichiro Honda (founder of Honda) created a fake family seal to forge his father’s stamp on his report card. When his father found out, he got punished, but not for the forgery. It was for how poorly he executed the forgery. Perfection and quality matter.
I work in a large aerospace company, let's call it Boeing, for 38 years. Anyway, we still use these today in our inspection areas, mostly in tooling departments. When certain "critical load" bolts are torqued to a specification, there is a small amount of putty applied to it and then the inspector will put his stamp on it. The putty is usually a bright color such as yellow or orange and is applied in a way that if the bolt or nut has worked loose, the putty will crack and you can easily see it during periodic inspections. I have seen them on actual airplane components in the past, but I don't recall seeing them like that anymore, but then again, I'm not out on the assemblies much these days.
Scott... Put oil on the cylinder before you print the seal. It will help preventing clay sticking to the seal
Use water. The cylinder needs to be wet so the clay doesn't stick to the recessed areas and I'm sure they used a dowl rod to get a smoother, even, and deeper roll, like in miniatures terrain building we use textured rolling pin to create all sorts of impressions on various materials.
So true. You are right.
The cylindrical seal was/is being/will be destroyed by 3-D printing.
Hey dewiz 👋
“Mesopotamian Bling” is a great band name. 😊
One big advantage to clay tablets is they could be dried or baked to prevent alterations of the official document. Downside is the size and weight and fragility of hardened clay. The advantage to papyrus is lightweight and more compact and not fragile, the permanent nature of ink made alteration difficult though not impossible. Wax seals were sometimes used on papyrus and paper documents to add extra security.
Cylinder seals are probably hard to fake, because if you take an impression from a signed document, then roll up the impression, features would get distorted in a characteristic fashion. To a trained eye, these distortions would indicate forgeries. I.e. they're ancient irreversible signatures.
Say it with me, Joe, "Puh-pie-russ". lol
At first, I thought it was an ancient stash box! Where's Ron Schneider (SNL) when you need 'em? 😂
The energy consumption for a single Bitcoin transaction is 703.25 kW/h with a carbon footprint of 969 kilograms of CO2, which is more or less equivalent to a flying London to New York and back. Something to think about next time you talk about crypto currency.
Source? Also how much to use internet every day? Or cooking?
To prevent the small grooves from filling up and the small details from tearing off the tablet, put the tablet in front of a fan for a little while so the surface can dry some, or dust it with a bit of talcum powder.
It's the bronze age version of a signet ring for sealing your letters with wax. Confidentiality and authenticity combined.
The yellow Play Dough you used to test the seal was a poor material to use. As you were working it, it was obviously "springy" or "rubbery" It wanted to spring back when pushed on, which, is the opposite of what would have been used for the seals. I imagine either a wax or semi-soft clay would have been used.
1:18 "Let's take this thing for a spin"
Well played, Sir
spray with cooking oil and wipe dry to keep clay from sticking... will also help clay slide into voids better.
Weirdly enough, I knew exactly what it is!!!! :) Cylinder seals are so freaking amazing as little works of art!
Suggestion, if I may? Ancient coin production. Another really cool subject!
a photo negative is only flipped in color, not mirrored
Use a little dish soap to stop the clay sticking. or cooking oil
That’s funny 😅
Please don't mislead the viewers- Hancock was not trying to make his name biggest; he had know idea how many signers there would be.