I found a use for the Mobius Strip Tank
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
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A mobius strip or loop is a one-sided object, and we can easily demonstrate the principle by getting a strip of paper, putting one twist in it, and joining the ends together.
The original tank I built has tracks like this, because it was suggested in the comments of another video, but it was hard to think of good reasons why it needs to exist.
After I’d built this I realised that where the track twists, there’s a section in the middle where the track is vertical, and this would allow it to bend the other way at this position.
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Ooh! If you had 2 twists, top and bottom, then you could have one drive surface for the "front" and one for the "rear". Imagine if you had grippy drive surface at the rear, but some sort of more directional-holding linear surface on the front to enhance steering!
Came here to say this
that would kind of defeat the purpose of a mobius strip tank
@@itsyaboikirbowell yeah, it wouldn't be a mobius strip anymore, but that's fine right? Call it "inspired by".
@@ilonachan true
@@itsyaboikirboi don't think it would. It's still using both sides of the track evenly. Just that the back of the tank is using one side and the front is using the other side.
The main benefit is doubling the tread surface area without doubling the length of the tread. This would apply well to something that had to crawl on hot lava, for example. Or something designed to soak up oil spills on the water.
How does thus double the surface?
@@frandurrieu6477For the same weight / construction materials cost, you can use both sides of each tread tile, the top and bottom side, spaced apart by the full length of the tread so there would be plenty of cooling/processing time when the tile could be renewed for the next pass.
Problem is wear
@@quantumblur_3145 Depends. If you were really trying to build a tank that could cross literal lava, and it needed a certain amount of cooling time before it could be re-used, you could use almost the same amount of materials and manufacturing costs to produce twice as much usable tread surface for withstanding the lava, creating the virtual footprint of a twice as long tank crossing one lava stream after another a full tread length apart. This would be more effective than having half that footprint, and if you weren't hotrodding your lavatank through the desert for fun, the extra wear from the mobius twist would not be a great concern.
@@semegraph wouldn't the lava warp the tread exterior and interfere with wheel grip?
I don't think I could ever adequately express how ridiculously beautiful this is to watch driving around! This is amazing, I'm glad you continue to share your exploration of alternative wheels. Thanks James!
thanks so much!
@@jamesbruton This could be used too in a super long range vehicle to "hotswap" or "hotclean" the track links while it is moving. For saving fuel or being more efficient between surfaces or repairs even.
@@jamesbruton my obvious immediate thought was; brilliant! two of these of either side of large arctic snow vehicles as back wheels to give better steering, no need for the Mobius twist in that but the tracked bending mechanism I could see have a useful application for those types of vehicles
turn this into a motorbike
Ñnbmm no bnm
Sometimes the simple projects are near impossible and then you get crazy stuff like this that works on the first shot. Awesome
I'm just glad I thought of a use for the Mobius track
@@jamesbruton there is a next step beyond this..
One track , left and right track contacts uses elongated (one side) and shortening (other side) to turn
@RepentandbelieveinJesusChrist5
nobody cares about you and your jesus on youtube
-me 24:7
@@anshsgh6092 I love this country you’re free to believe whatever you wanna believe you’re free to say whatever you wanna say but then Me 24:7… that had me laughing louder than I would have at church
I can't help but see this as a prototype for a bizarre steampunk-y motorbike; you could even lean into the corners and the track twist would maintain traction (though I doubt it would go fast enough to matter)
It's just so satisfying to watch!
Mhm, defenitly feels like some cool fictional motorbike
If you did a 180 twist of the track in both directions, the front and back section would each have their own side of the track! I think it would look really cool to paint one ground-contacting side of the track a different color; at first glance it would look like it has two different tracks but on closer inspection you'd its actually one
well, this double colouring of the track would still be shown on this tank. the track twists two times between two sides, so each of the sides would have different coloured tracks
Love to see that you keep your problems / mistakes in the video (i.e. sprocket problems). Shows that even you have problems, but don't give up and fix them!
I try my best to make things work the best I can
@jamesbruton that's all anyone can ever do
@@jamesbruton I have a small solution if I may, for the treads getting stuck on the terrain. What if you slightly decreased the width of the track pieces, to be more precise, just decrease the sides a bit so that the track is a little narrower.
While a v3 is patiently anticipated this one blew my mind, kinda wanna see a tank motorcycle now, I'm more impressed by a single track being able to steer
no I gotta go to bed! Post this 8 hours from now!
Finally! The perks of living in Africa.
I should be sleeping but I need to be learning
@@welribotes4139hello fellow African
You could lift up the tracks in the center more, so the bottom one doesn't touch the ground and bind up the bottom twisting action in the grass for example. You could also make this into a two tracked version like a skidsteer, but both steered as in this video , with the inside one steered more acutely to keep true alignment in the turning circle. Having two tracks would also eliminate the problem of this version being out of sideways balance while turning, causing it to partly ride on the bottom track that is in the middle of the twist and should really not have any of that resistance against its twisting action, especially in uneven (not smooth) terrain like gass.
I didint think this would work or even be useful but damn this is really cool and im surprised how well it work, this would be really cook to see on a scifi tank like the halo scorpion that has the two separate front and back track pods
No matter how useless this might turn out to be (and who knows if there could potentially be some very useful use for this), I'm still so very pleased it was made. The Mobius loop is my favorite 3-dimensional object, because it has one edge and one side.
Thanks for the video!
Love this idea. Cool to see the twist have a purpose. I do recommend dropping that telephone thing thought that sound is quite jarring.
The rining was alittle annoying but I thought the idea was cute and fun
Disagreed. I think it was a fun advert.
Man, this thing makes THE most SATISFYING "Chug-chug-chug" noise that makes it sound like a train. I find myself, being a bit of a disney nerd, just imagining this as some sort of small robot for some purpose or another in EPCOT or such. If you made a cool rainbow gradient that changes through the colors seamlessly as it goes around and has different colors top and bottom, it would be QUITE the spectacle machine.
Took me the whole episode to understand why you designed it with the bend on top and bottom. It's actually genius doing that to allow it to bend freely in the middle.
although Im wondering if the mobius-bend is really necessary ( well it is in this case or you don´t have a mobius tank duh 😉), so a more sophisticated track which runs normal but its links - farther apart - have a wider range of lateral movement ( forced back onto the sprockets on each end ). The individual track connections need to be flexible but have to keep the track together. Hm, does it make it even more complicated or less complicated then ^^
This was really interesting and amazing. If the point is to design tank treads that articulate, this is very close to an idea that's worth chasing. I would say, going back to keep the bottom flat and have the top flip to form a true mobius strip is a bigger idea. Redesigning the tread to articulate on the flat and have a tread surface on both sides would be an advantage; longer track life, finer steering control, and a novel feature enabling greater armor coverage on the high part of the track.
I was relieved to see the actual track was one-sided, since the one showed in the renderings was not. Your solution for the actuators placement was specially satisfying.
I think maybe if you made the bottom twist twist all the way, and the top one twist and twist back, it might run better. I'm noticing the bottom tread in the middle where it bends seems to be getting caught a little because of it trying to bend back the way it came.
Either that or you could twist both the entire way around. It would defeat the purpose of using a mobius strip, but it would still be cool.
putting a twist in both top and bottom will still make it run on both sides of the track even though it's not a mobius strip
@@when_the_ Oh i see... I was legit annoyed that the bottom was catching and I couldn't understand why he twisted the top and didn't the bottom. Mobius strip video, i get it now.
This one is looking absolutely amazing dude great work 👍👍
One of the things I love about your channel is after you make the coolest most unique thing, then remake it because the first version had flaws, you still end the video showing things that could have been improved. That level of attention to detail is mind-blowing to me. Inspiring.
This has probably been asked already, but is there some reason you don't have a CNC router? A lot of the parts on your projects seem like they'd be much better suited to subtractive manufacturing rather than additive.
I'd hazard a guess it's some combination of the space required and noise.
He's also just known for being the guy that 3d prints everything.
Edit: Couldn't shake the feeling that I'd seen James use a CNC router at some point so I looked back at his video history and he did indeed have one 5 years ago so 🤷
Yeah, CNC out of plywood would make these bigger projects much faster for him to prototype. I think he might be constrained by space.
And this is how the Mechanicus' famed Bruton tank began.
If you make the twist section longer it might help with the grinding. Gives it more space to twist and untwist
Or he could make it so it can rotate more easily like it can move even further
The biggest problem I see is that when the bottom belt is vertical it's hitting the ground. It either needs the entire middle section raised and/or less wide tracks.
Penalty the best usage of the mobius strip!
The track needs some guides to help smooth out movement when it goes between the bends. Adding some suspended/sprung small rollers to the outside of the ground contact armature will help with stability. So cool. Love it
Interesting and a lot of printing. For turning the machine you probably don't need a mobius or to make the track to flip over fully but just a shared pivoting line which you have. If tracks just turn 90 degrees at pivoting point and then back to 0, you should be able to turn your machine left and right. Keep on inventing!
I love how two different projects came together like this
Glaring thing I kept thinking of was at this point just make two tank treads independently, if there is no contact in the middle what’s the point of it being the same track that hits the ground again in the back. Either make two independent track loops, front and back, or (to keep the spirit of the project, which is very cool) have one twist at the top and let the weight of the tank keep the non-twisted bottom in contact with the ground so it is able to bend like the sushi style bending track. Also keeps it a möbius strip. Two twists mean two sides.
It sounds and hops like an old steam tractor. Beautiful.
This is an interesting design. I'm really curious how it would work if there were two side by side like a standard tank track. How well they would work while articulating together. As well as what kind of handling characteristics you gain or lose.
It could even still be a single track!
The idea of this robot is so ridiculous yet you execute it so perfectly.
the real world applications for a refined product such as this are literally exponetial. i could watch this type of content for houra
Always imprest with what you manage to make regardless of how smoothly it operates
I don't think anybody else gets so many sponsors like James. 4 Sponsors in one video? Damn!
With a couple of wheel chair motors this would be a BEAST in the snow!
this thing running along in this wonky fashion in the kitchen is strangely cute.
Like a stupid but lovable plastic pet
Painting one side of the tracks would make a nice visual, so you can see how much they twist! You could probably fold the tank track in half where the rollers are and still drive it. Would make for some awesome donuts!
Absolutely love the nonsensical phone calls
James, you are an inspiration as always.
Thanks!
Very nice. Hopefully you’ll make a version 2 which you will be able to sit on and ride to the shops.
Definitely the perfect use for a mobius tread though. Very cool!
James Bruton you never fail to amaze me
For grass stability, you could put some free-rotating rollers right above the tracks that they would run into if they tipped up too far. It would add some resistance, but with good bearings, hopefully the anti-topple function would outweigh the increased friction.
This is new. Haven't seen this around old track patents. :)) Neato!
I love it. The small radius sprockets may be why it''s juttering every like like that. Few loaded tooth at the same time. Like a worn bike chain the smallest rear sprocket.
The RUclips algorithm sends its regards. I have no idea how I got here, but you've earned yourself a subscribe.
how interesting, though no longer mobius I suppose. One face of the tracks never is outside on one section of the device, so you could have differing treads. Love it.
i searched far and wide for this coment
This has to be scaled up so you can ride it! Love it!
If it could make tighter bends I could see something like this operating in warehouses with very narrow aisles 😅 It's very alien looking, I like it 😎
hopes are low, but will we see your R2 build again? i actully found and startet watching the channel because of it and i wish it would be finished some day.
as far as i remember, it was nerver completed. maybe even a new one, now that you learnd so much over all these years?
That’s an awesome project 🤩👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻 This serves as a great prototype to see how you can enhance it 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
This is quite brilliant James, you've made yourself a tank/motorcycle
Puzzled that you left the bottom rotation of the track on the ground when it could be arbitrarily high. Of course that would mean printing more track... Gotta love square wheels!
Great idea for your "infinite loop", but wouldn't it have been better to just make to make two separate track loops for the front and back. That way you could get rid of the twists and the track in the middle. This would save a lot of track and get rid of the 4 vertical rollers holding the twists. You could probably even get the front and back track closer together since you don't need room for the twist in the middle. This would also shorten the overall length. I hope this makes sense. Wish the comments section had a whiteboard option. One diagram would go a long way.
Google "Tank Police Bonaparte" and that pretty much saves you the whiteboard I think
it would, but that defeats the point as this would eliminate the mobius strip entirely, which is the fun of this project!
I would totally love to see the track printed in two colors. One color on the inside and another color on the other side. then do a full twist on the top AND bottom so the front module has one color track, but the other module is a different color.... but it is all the same track.
A Möbius Band only has one side.
@@mststgt If it twists on both top and bottom then it would have 2 sides but front and bottom would be using opposite surfaces.
@@mststgt and inspiration isn't restrictive or prescriptive.
@@bourbonbobo You're more an artist than an engineer, I guess.
@@Eagle3302PL correct, but then it wouldn't be a Möbius Strip Tank any more.
dude this has insane design implecations
It's a bit sci-fi, but You could use the Mobius to pull a section of track inside the vehicle for maintenance. Use replaceable feet on the tread sections and swap them for wear and tear or for certain terrains. I'm thinking like a big Sandcrawler type vehicle. Rubber feet for that run to town, and armored ones when back on the field. Maybe some snow shoes.
This belongs full scale in a sci-fi movie
a catamaran or trimaran configuration with two or three of them would be awesome
I think you should run a slightly offset set of holes in the middle of each track and then include sprockets on the vertical rollers to lift the track off of the ground so it doesn’t drag from gravity in the center. Also, this is a viable concept for a single track motorcycle, and you should continue to develop it as such
A lovely stretch of the word 'use' ;)
Congratulations on inventing the worlds first motorcycle! :D
I love the new phone call transitions actually
In an alternate reality, this is how we designed tractors from the start, and the concept of 2 treads is mind blowing.
Yay! You invented the tank motorbike!
I can’t wait to see someone put this idea in a sci-fi game!
Ah yes a James Bruton video to keep me up at 2:30
7:09 🎼 Well I'm your Mobius Tank man. Stop me when I'm passin' by.🎶
I appreciate you do this stuff kinda to see if you can and for the whole problem solving element of these weird designs. I just can't help but point out you have a motor in each side so this could just be 2 separate normal loop tracks, job done easy.
The chieftain would love the fact you got a track tensioning system
Finally found a video that shows what too many ADs/sponsor messages looks like.
Wow, I saw your first video which was already clever, this one I like even more. This new concept screams: motorbike-tank.
The extra tiltability of the treads allow them to tilt to form-fit rough ground and maximise contact area. To fix stability, you could double the treads or put stabilising wheels. Doubling the treads may cause issues with steering, but should be possible. Ideally, you don't want the vertical twist touching the ground, so it'd be good to raise it higher.
I think you might be able to do this w a more continuous twist, giving a round wheel shape to both treads. The real twist would be at the top, and flex as current, the faux twist would be replaced with track bending, allowing for the development of an upward flexing curve to the track while turning. This would elevate the center of the device off the ground, and allow for more clearance and wheel like behaviour (and support, even drive, from a supporting wheel for the track ends. If you make a paper mobius, holding it twist up, press the lower flat upwards, then twist it to see the "wheels" turn.
I smell a track motocycle comming on :D
if it had a bit more ground clearance you might even be able to turn it into another ride-able bike like vehicle.
We've really got to get James a Onefinity CNC for builds like this. Even with a single CNC, most of the large parts could have been cut from particle board in a fraction of the time. I know he has limited space, but you screw it to a board and you can lean it against a wall to reclaim the space.
Very impressive cool project. You should really spray paint one side of the track so it's easier to see how it flips as it's driving.
If you ever replace the tracks, try making the gear holes slightly flared open, at the same angle as the new beveled gear teeth.
This would really give you that extra protection from any jams ever happening. Ever ever.
Very different. You really need to build another one and ride it!
the recurring red phone gag is amazing
More coming tomorrow
Reason for the twist seems pretty clear to me - wear balancing, both sides of the tracks get wear so the whole thing lasts longer before the treads wear smooth.
Brilliant!
I would love to see a rideable version next! 🏍️
Three seconds in to this video I was certain this entire thing was going to be in rhythmic rhyming spoken word poetry
An interesting affect of using mobius tracks you wear both sides of the track.
Effectively doubling the life of the track, at least as far as surface wearing.
We need a Megaman game where all the cute enemy robots are James' creations. Just need to tack on some googly eyes.
The matrix reference in the beginning omg
Love it, no idea why it exists but its cool :D
Education and entertainment!
nice! now make two of them, connect them together and make an actual tank
Another brilliant project! This would make a great star wars droid, also the red phone interludes had me cracking up. Thanks you've made my lunch break very enjoyable.
Thanks!
The *video* is a great one for any inventor-hobbyist, because it so clearly illustrates iteration and the challenges of prototyping. Love it!
The "tank" though ... honestly, this remains a solution in search of a problem. This vehicle isn't doing anything a so-called "H-tank" could do just as well - basically, if the fore and aft portions were self contained powered bogies, you could pivot them (either by bending the entire vehicle or by pivoting the entire bogie like a rail car) and end up with a tracklaying vehicle that avoided the major turning challenges of actual tanks. But this contraption, as cool as it is to look at, really doesn't do anything useful.
Which is not meant to shame you or anything! The inventiveness and problem solving needed to make this is amazing, and watching the video was fun, so thank you for that! But at this point, it's my opinion that the Mobius tank idea just isn't worth pursuing for any reason more complex than "because I can."
Of course, "because I can" is a perfectly wonderful reason for any kind of hobby project. :)
Great job James for finding a use for the morbius strip. These tanks are getting quite big. Love to see you show how small you can make a standard track vehicle that is 3D printing by us mortals.
I cant help but think that while I look at this it would make for a pretty cool motorcycle.
This is genius my friend.
Very cool really enjoy your projects. However can you think of any possible advantage of this system over independent front and rear loops? I cannot so it seems more like a Rube Goldberg project making it complex for the sake of complexity. It is high art in engineering!
A possible advantage would be having the combined torque of the 2 motors acting on all drive surfaces. With independent loops, you could conceivably encounter a situation where one loop has poor traction and spins freely while the other loop has great traction but lacks the torque to move at full speed. With the combined loop, the torque of both motors is first combined and the resulting force would be applied to the surface with the traction.
Whether this benefit would outweigh the increased resistance from the extra rollers is an open question.
Three things:
1. There are no grips on either side, so that little bit of extra elevation that would give the bottom twist some extra ground clearance isn't present, and the treads lack traction. So perhaps instead of smooth tracks or added-on rubber grips, you could print textured tracks with treading that has natural gripping surfaces,
2. This design has a significant flaw in that while the track has obvious vertical mobility, the frame does not, so the second it encounters a significant incline, the middle section is going to pick off the ground and a lot of the traction is going to be lost. A slight vertical hinge towards the front, and possibly a second in the back, would alleviate this problem and, potentially, give the track the ability to take inclines far better.
3. The horizontal instability can't really be compensated for with a one-track design, as wider tracks for stability would require a taller frame, which would just exacerbate the problem further with no end, and having 'training wheels' on the side to balance it goes against the spirit of the design of a tracked vehicle and causes all manner or other problems that could be addressed by just refining the track design. To that end, the only realy fix besides only driving across even ground with no irregularities is to have a second track, but while that obviously complicates the design of a horizontally bending tracked vehicle, it also creates new oppurtunities that a conventional single or double track design would not, such as having multiple horizontal and vertical pivot points withot sacrificing stability or control. It's also possible to scale the size of the tracks down with a second track.
Follow this rabbit hole long enough and you might just create a working 'snake tank'...
Now all you need is a seat and make it bigger and smoother and you have a tread bike tank. Never seen one in shows or movies or games or even books at least as proper as this.
What if you made it twice as long and added a 2nd area where it can turn? You could basically make a snake that uses a single tread. If you drive it in a slightly serpentine pattern it would be more stable and less likely to fall over.
TANK SNAKE!!!
Now you need to get Colin Furze to build a full size vehicle with two sets of tracks!
I don't think we gonna see this thing rolling down future battlefields any time soon.
It would be interesting to actually test other iterations of this design for its feasibility in the real world
I see two benefits right away to this track design:
1) The mobius strip design means that you can have a two sided track where you potentially have twice the lifespan before having to replace worn out track. While the track may be more expensive this way, your downtime for maintenance could be cut down substantially. Also, depending on how you design the track links, it's potential that you could maintenance the track without tacking it completely off the vehicle
2) The bent design allows for sharper turns without tearing up the ground as much and without as much side force on the track potentially leading to less tracks being slipped off from zero point turn forces
All in all I think that the core concept is actually intriguing enough to warrant more testing. There are several changes I'd see from the get go. Understandably there is certain limitations with trying to keep the tests in budget for a one man shop
One of the main ones would be to decrease the link width so it doesn't touch the ground at the twisted portion at the bottom. Treads are meant to be flexible to be able to go over very uneven ground. The twist isn't flexible so needs to not be in contact with or be near to the ground
Also, linkage would assist in being able to pivot the treads more for turning with low speed motors. You can trade power (as available) with leverage to turn it into more distance
I can see that the belt drive may be due to costs but having a more direct form of drive would yield less overall slippage. As soon as I saw the worm gear motors being driven by a belt I knew there would be no way to actualize the power of the motors
I could go on but this was really an interesting concept. It is rather ingenuous, innovative and creative. Well done
I like the idea, but I think it could be really impractical. My thought is, that since the mobius track turns on both sides, the insides connecting the tracks to the tank could get really messy really fast, as dirt and possibly abrasive particles would get in. While the linkage itself should theoretically last longer, there could possibly be more maintenance due to things getting too messy inside...
I really like the idea, even if impractical, it was a pleasure to see this project in motion.
make a tl;dr please