I subscribed to your channel long time ago. I really do like your videos especially those with cassettes and i was just wondering if you could make a video with a technics m205 tape deck because i heard it's a nice one. Thank you for reading my message!
I don't think you said anything bad either. I wont be getting that tape deck though because I've already got better ones that are working fine. However you can see a similar motor mechanism to that deck used inside the Co-Deck ruclips.net/video/-QVKfWSSM5o/видео.html
Yes you're absolutely right - each thing I reviewed has to have something that I find interesting or different about it. If the M205 did something that no other tape deck did, I might well add it to the list...but it doesn't.
@@Techmoan I saw that video many times and that's why i asked you to make that video and i know you have better ones. I have better ones too ( technics RS-D190W and technics RS-TR212) but unfortunately those are broken. However my father bought that model and next month when he will get home, he will bring it with him. But anyway sorry for asking you this.
It's not that much better than over the air or modern recorded nbtv. Framerate of both Baird and NBTVA systems is 12,5fps. Examples: www.nbtv.wyenet.co.uk/jeremy.jpg Screencap of an actual mechanical Nipkow-disk television: bs.cyty.com/menschen/e-etzold/archiv/TV/mechanical/img/disk_light_pic.jpg If you search on 'narrow bandwith television' or NBTVA 32 line you'll also find some video.
By the way: The concept of a vinyl video respectively photographs reaches back to the Voyager 1 mission. The golden record the scientists developed to be included on the Voyager 1 (just in case aliens found it) includes a number of photographs which could be opened by using a certain mathematical method which was included on the record.
Yes indeed. Problem with this format and the CED was that we did not have the computing power for encoding video into such small bandwidth. And not even for decoding, which is much easier. This became only sort of available in the 90s with MPEG. But even the first iterations of that would not have gotten down to 225kbit/s. Remember REAL video...? That was more in that domain and looked... horrible!
The TED video disc player from the german company Telefunken in 1975 was very similar and was commercially available for a couple of years and unlike the video recorders from around the same time period had a reasonable catalogue of programs available for it.The big drawback was that each disc held only 10 minutes of playing time. ruclips.net/video/_Xe-Jw4N7wQ/видео.html
Arne Schmitz I'd love to see a modern upgrade to this with H.265! I wonder how long it could play with the quality set the same or keep the same duration, but bump up the quality.
i don't think so. this is very underground/grunge which means it is geared more towards the 70's/80's, it would have been too ahead of it'self in the 50's or 60's and would not suit the ideologies or aesthetic of the time. this is a lovely little gimmick but for what it can do and for who it will do it for there isn't much of a chance it would do anything other than flop that far back XD
When he dies (not that I'm wishing it!!!) they should open up a Techmoan Interactive Museum for people to come in and play with all this stuff for themselves. I, personally would love to have a hands-on experience with a Tefifon player.
This one's not all that expensive, TBH. Sure, more than most sane folks would spend on something with such a limited appeal, but still. If you're into this sort of weird thing, then this is definitely a very affordable addition to your collection.
@@lezzman I just saw a tefifon in a flea market here in germany a few months ago. I thought about buying it, but then again, what would ibneed it for :D
Great video - thanks for the shout-out to my channel. I knew you would do a much more in-depth look at Vinyl Video than I could. I'm really curious how to record original material in the format now to make some more Vinyl Video records.
You'd need to convert the video file to the correct specifications (color depth, resolution, audio bitrate, number of channels, encoding format, ...). After that, the resulting file needs to be modulated into an audio signal that can be recorded to tape, pressed to vinyl, or if you wanna go really perverse: encoded as a digital audio file. In both cases you're looking at a collection of unknown parameters that you'd need to figure out somehow. Your best bet: contact the makers, and ask them if they'd be willing to share the details. Reverse engineering is also possible, but not easy at all, so expect to pay through the nose if you're lucky enough to find someone who's up to the task. Realistically, the only option is to contact the makers and hope they're the sharing type.
This would be awsome to outhipster the hipsters.. Imagine a group of hipsters sitting in front of a coffeeshop, listing to their phonographs and 8 tracks while writing their novels on typewriters. Then you come along with a 1940's television, hook it up to your gramaphone and start watching videoclips in 4:3 black and white.. That would be awesome haha.
KRAFTWERK2K6: MiniDV tape is 25 Mbit/second, and some early HD cameras used MPEG to record high quality 1440x1080 ("HDV") on MiniDV cassettes. It's not difficult at all to get reasonably good 4K video into 25 Mbit/sec. Not good enough for camera masters or theater projection, but good enough for home viewing on a 6' screen.
KRAFTWERK2K6: I wish I knew if you were joking - if so, just ignore the rest of this. You had me until "interlaced". Interlaced was a good workaround WAAAAY back, when it was barely possible to get an acceptable picture into an acceptable bandwidth. It made sense when we had CRT TVs with long enough persistence to make it useful. Now, with displays that always scan progressive no matter the source, there is no excuse for interlacing. It's just a way of overcomplicating things, that just forces the player software to do some kind of interpolation, provides another way to get it wrong in the edit. But even then, I don't miss a THING about videotape. I would never go beyond napkin calculations in a bar, when it comes to taking a giant step backward into either tape or vinyl recording.
I'm impressed that it's even possible to store enough data on a vinyl format to have video playback. Granted the quality is less than ideal. But I'd never have guessed such a thing existed.
You might even find some digitally archived old "VinylVideos" on the internet. I'd like to see them recorded on 8-track and then run though the decoder. "8-track video!"
I was going to say the same thing, only with cassette. The videos are reminiscent of the PXL 2000, but I’m curious if what is being played from the vinyl record can be done from the cassette playing at its regular speed, instead of super fast like the PXL 2000 did.
Looping GIF on an 8-track! It should work if you can find out the format these things are encoded in. The website seems to indicate it's a closed source codec so probably not a common format.
From the 90s when this was introduced, to 2018, there was a tremendous progress to compression quality video codecs. So with a machine built today with a codec like h.265 you could probably fit a lot better quality in the same reduced bandwidth on analog media.
I just wanted to thank you for continuing to put out interesting, intelligent tech content on your channel. The type of subject matter is right up my alley and I don't nor can't find it anywhere else. Please keep doing what you are doing. I, for one, appreciate it very much. I tip my hat to you good sir.
Maybe check out Technology Connections, it's not the same style in many regards but it IS a channel focused mostly on old tech, however it's less explorative and more educative, it goes into some level of technical details and history. He's got videos on LaserDisc, Cassette, VHS, Beta, CD, and even a 5 video series covering the history of the CED video vynils and what happened at RCA during the LONG development of the format. However you'll miss the british charm featured in this channel... Sorry for a plug that isn't even for me, I just want the vintage and obscure/niche tech youtube community to be a thing and I'm doing my small part.
It's kind of a delightful thing. I'm guessing this could not have existed back in the day since the decoder would have been prohibitively expensive with 70s computer technology. I'm surprised Jack White hasn't released a single on this format yet, he's all about quirky vinyl.
I think it would have been impossible in the 70s, it is a frequency modulated digital signal and decoding it in real time and outputting it as video even today takes quite some power. With analog technology, this is impossible. I think in the 80s it would have been feasible. One could adapt the encoding to the available decoding hardware, so some tricks to need less computation power would surely have been found. Like the Apple 1 which used some glitches in NTSC to display color with no computational overhead.
Nope, it even says in one of the example sleeves that it's amplitude modulated. Same as monochrome baseband TV, or a CCTV format like RS343. Very simple, your main complications are a/ separating and keeping time with the sync (which might wobble a bit, much like a very old tape - you'd want a timebase corrector or something), b/ separating and playing the audio at a correct, varying rate, c/ most particularly, feeding the video into a suitably large framebuffer that it could then be replayed from at normal speed. The first two are actually not that difficult, regular TV/video recorder equipment has to manage it inherently, or at least maintain a correct line and frame rate even if the actual scanning speed is free-running (generally the rate at which the rate the content is delivered at changes very gradually and only by a small amount, so it may cause a small amount of bending or wobble in the image but no major desync). More sophisticated models could vary the actual spot-scanning speed horizontally and vertically (essentially, the H/V "hold") to compensate for varying sync frequency which implied a varying spot scan rate at the camera end, or the equivalent of such caused by a warped tape. The second is essentially a function of the first. You have to sample the audio at moderate to high speed (perhaps 80 to 100kHz equivalent) and plunk _that_ into some kind of relatively small buffer - maybe 2kb equivalent, in the case of VV - whilst remaining in sync with the incoming signal, then play it out at a fixed fraction of whatever the _current_ synched speed is, with some method of chase-play (either have just that single small buffer and loop around it, with just enough space for the fresh high-speed input to dart ahead of the low speed output, for a tiny fraction of a second every 1/4.16th of a second or so, or have it tied to a double video buffer so a whole chunk of data is written into a backbuffer whilst the previous one is being more slowly read out, with audio being part of the total stream, and essentially being the driving force behind when the bank is switched - when the audio runs out, you immediately switch to the other bank, even if it's not full up yet, and reduce/increase the play rate to compensate for any under/overflow)... The third is the true sticking point for any notional historical version of the device. Essentially, you can't easily do it in any way I can see without microchip grade memory, preferably DRAM, which puts a certain date limit on things (because it came slightly later than SRAM, IIRC). Even using the earliest chips means you're going to have quite a stack of electronics, easily desktop PC sized if not later rackmount minicomputer (PDP11 etc), and investing both a lot of money into buying plus quite a bit of electrical power running the thing. If we take the pioneering Altair 8800 as an example, the first micro available in any numbers and with a useful spec list, and purchaseable not only as a kit but fully built for people who were unable/unwilling to solder... its bare form, with about the most minimal useful CPU (i8080 at 2MHz) and only 256 bytes of memory, plus no useful I/O never mind a video interface, cost $439 in the early 70s... in kit form. If you wanted to add an 8KB memory board to that (the largest offered at first, and the company soon fell back to only offering them in the 1 to 4KB range because of the sheer number of tightly-packed chips that entailed, as well as a general lack of demand for those vs the clamour for lower-end parts), that would easily double the total system price, possibly more so. I forget the exact price, but let's say a ready-built system cost $500 and if you wanted it to come with 8KB, that was $1000, a nice round number for a starter computer (equal to $4000~5000 today), so long as you could provide your own terminal and data storage hardware. Thing is, that's not very much memory when it comes to video. A simple 64x16 text screen occupies 1KB, the more common 80x25 needs almost 2KB, and that's in flat monochrome, no character attributes, and using a separate character ROM. The same memory could get you a 160x102 bitmap, again in black and white only, no greyscales. Our video here is probably somewhere closer to 160x204 as a minimum (though the actual framebuffer used is probably at least twice the width if not four times, to avoid overlaying excessive quantisation onto the blurry analogue signal), with 8 bits per pixel to provide a smooth greyscale display. If you economised somewhat you could get away with somewhere between 4 and 6 bits, separated into boards each holding a separate bitplane (a good way to increase bandwidth even if you're still using 8bpp) instead of discrete bytes. So we're already looking at anywhere from 8 to 16KB for our framebuffer. But, the way this format works is to read in two new frames simultaneously with displaying a third. Even if we arrange it so one of those overwrites the old one "live", in a "tearing" fashion over fully six output field times, we still need to store the second one somewhere temporarily. And the frames don't look like they're tearing much (a little might be unavoidable, towards the bottom of the image, to compensate for sync drift, but generally it's not a problem), so it's likely triple buffered. Thus we actually need anywhere from 24 to 48KB, even without considering the true resolution could be larger still (e.g. 256x240, which would be roughly doubled once again - and by that point threatening to exceed the available address space of the system). It's getting expensive... even before we consider the decidedly pricey input ADC board and its various discriminators and gates that would be the actual things under CPU control (there'd have to be an awful lot of DMA to work around the i8080's extremely slow inherent data transfer speed, it'd be relegated purely to system controller status), and the video output board that would be quite fancy stuff for even the end of the 1970s (well, arguably the system in the Atari 8-bits would come close...), we're looking at a minimum system cost of $2000, and possibly more like $3500+. In early 1970s dollars. In other words, the decoder system for this thing would cost you as much as a half decent car, or even - thanks to the low property prices of the time - a small house. With the vast majority of the cost going into the output buffer. There's a reason most early computers had truly awful displays, either plaintext only or very chunky graphics that makes even the VV look sophisticated ... it's because that shit eats memory, and memory was dead expensive at the time. Same reason the ZX81 came with only 1KB on board... even the better part of a decade later it wasn't particularly cheap. For £100 in 1981 you could get a kit computer that was just about good enough to show a small amount of text on screen and let you type in some very short BASIC programs. And prices had tumbled in-between. And, well... compared to any other previous technology, microchip memory was _stupidly cheap,_ and unbelievably compact and energy-efficient. You might have seen the famous image of an 8GB microSD card perched on top of an 8 _byte_ core memory array. That intricate looking thing? Hand woven. Later versions of the same managed as much as 1 kilobit (128 bytes) or even 4 kilobits, still made by hand by skilled ex-seamstresses. That kind of work _costs._ Ideally, our video system would need the equivalent of 192 of those later boards, but we could probably get away with 48. And bear in mind how big they are; even the smaller ones used ferrite doughnuts about half the size of an entire SD card. The signal discrimination, switching and control systems? Myeh, they're child's play. Any decent television, even in the vacuum tube period, had sufficient electronic power to deal with that. But it didn't have a suitable data storage mechanism. I suppose maybe you could have used a trio of continually circulating high-grade magnetic tapes, or small drums even, to store the picture information, but they'd have to continually change speed, and do so extremely accurately and in tight sync, to an arbitrary timing signal (derived from the audio input), in order to convert two simultaneous low speed input streams into two high speed ones that play out sequentially, and repeatedly, at 6x the speed, 6x over. But, wait, no, that's wrong, isn't it. You'd actually need four tapes (and indeed four memory banks - so the estimate is now anywhere from 32KB to a full 64KB, maxing out the bus, or even 128KB (we're bank switching anyway, so, no big problem, it's just even pricier)... you'd have to lose at least a couple of lines, then, just to have space to store the operating program, though it's entirely possible that you'd put the memory on a separate bus to the CPU, have it only able to store/access information about the control side of things, and never the twain shall meet), as two would be occupied recording the incoming video data (and audio) at 1/12th effective playback speed per tape (four and a bit blocks per second, for 50 field/sec output), whilst the other two were accelerated near-instantly to full 12x speed, one reading out 6x then the other 6x. At least it would mean they could share a common drive axle per pair.... and of course if you had (extremely low inertia...) drums, that'd just be two heads per drum instead of one. Or maybe eight to sixteen, recording a lower frequency stream of bits (plus two or four more for the sync pulses) instead of a single high frequency analogue one. Hmm, I wonder. That last bit means, if you could engineer the physical side of things to a sufficiently crazy-precise degree, it might yet be doable with pre-transistor technology. Just. Even so, really, 8mm film doesn't seem like a particularly bad format in comparison to this, especially Super 8 with magnetic soundtrack. It's at least as high resolution, can be had in colour, etc.
Nothing like getting stuck in a RUclips hole in the middle of the night /early morning(it's 4:30am where I am hahah) and then getting a notification for a new techmoan masterpiece.
Good question. I'd be very interested in that. As we all know audio tape was a very versatile medium back in the day, and even included computer data storage for a lot of 8-bit computers.
You probably could. Tape has more bandwith then vinyl so it should fit on it without problem. For the decoder it shouldn't matter where the datastream comes from. You probably could do it from a mp3 player as well. But what's the fun in that right :)
There is a difference between trying to record a VCR signal straight to the audiocassette tape and using first the encoder of video signal making it extremely low frquency demanding like we saw in this video. In the 80s there was a handy cameras writing the analog video signal straight to the audiocassette tape, but a very high speed of tape drive was used. And as we see here, the vynil playing speed stays as usual, but the frame rate and resolution is reduced first. So yes, if we take such encoder that used to write the signal to the vynil, we probably coud use the audiocassette tape as well.
I made a similar slow scan TV system for low power radio. It also "works" on audio cassette. It's not as clear as that but it does have colour and 12.5 fps :-)
40 lines, 36 of which are active video. The horizontal resolution depends on the media but in ideal conditions it's ~36 pixels. So not that great :-) The colour is transmitted on each line before the luminance, it's based loosely on the old TV standard MAC: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplexed_Analogue_Components I've an example of it being transmitted over radio here: ruclips.net/video/svcqkk4zdMw/видео.html I'll upload the cassette version soon, but it's pretty horrible. I'd love to see how it would look on vinyl.
I recall seeing this at FACT in Liverpool and it really lingered with me. At the time I was working within media doing Internet and video encoding and this thing just blow my mind. But I think it is really those dial-up modem problems that likely gave birth to such a crazy idea. As back then the whole internet experience was about compression which led to much innovation in getting a thumbnail sized video to be something that was usable. The odd thing is that these videos seem to pay little attention to the rules I would constantly be telling content producers; don't move the camera, try to keep movement to a small part of the frame, don't cut too often, colour rules... anything like this would just pulls the image apart. But I guess the encoding it is part of the aesthetic of this format. It reminds me a bit of the PXL-2000 compact cassette format , a blurred version. And a B&W version of the recent colour compact cassette experiment that was done recently. I'd love to play with the encoding tech of this, I am sure with my years of encoding and media production for dial-up modems, an amazing subset of skills that is now useless. I could get a brilliant image on this format, and maybe have more data for better audio at the same time - but I imagine this is limited. As I don't know if people recall early dial-up video but it didn't encode like this thing does, like when someone talks and the mouth becomes a glitch of burnt in pixels. I love all these experiments in getting video into odd formats, just so useless today. As the odd paradox with encoding is that as the encoding technology and maths gets better the bandwidth is getting amazingly high. I can't think of a modern real purpose for good low bandwidth video encoding. Even before we are all into 4k we are at a point where 80%+ of our current internet's bandwidth is video. Imagine what will happen when 8k becomes a thing? We could really give everyone free Internet and just charge for HD & HD+ video streaming, could be doing that already - as RUclips, Netflix, Amazon, Apple TV and a few others are 80% of our bandwidth already. The internet has become one big continuous video stream. I hate myself for watching and showing people the same video I don't retain or hold. It is all a constant flux of new video data nano-second by nano-second, crazy. On to the next vid...
You are very, very desperate to sound intelligent. Didn't need a massive run on paragraph to tell us that. "80% of the internet's current bandwidth is video" No, just.....no. That's not how bandwidth works. Please stop.
It could be done, but the decoder would be enormous, power-hungry, & expensive. Particularly the line- & frame-rate interpolation. You'd be looking at a rack of equipment 70 cm square & 2 meters tall, sucking down at least a kilowatt continuous, & costing probably a hundred thousand US dollars.
Could only really be purely analog if film stock was exposed, developed and then viewed via a projector. In essence, this is as analog as such a medium gets. The signal mat displayed would likely be analog in nature. However, having not seen the waveform of a vhs video signal, can't say for certain.
@@HiVisionary1125 It can be done a lot easier than that, look up 'NBTV', which is a hybrid system, based on the original Baird mechanical TV, using computers with sound cards to convert the recorded analogue signal to and from normal TV, all-analogue 'televisors' can also be used to directly pickup and view pictures.
Here's your new production workflow in this UHD world: Take a Fisher Price vs2000 camcorder shoot some stuff, capture the two sided reversed audio from the tape edit it reverted in Sound forge, play the audio back tru a fake cassette adapter in the camera (got to see the image to edit), find out how to multiplex the audio in this vinyl format, send the file to those independent vinyl maker (they usually do dj plate) and finallyplay it in this artsy contraption for maximum hipster effects. I'll call it B&W LD format for those creative minds who always make there own mental image either way.
Awesome. In my early curiosities, I plugged the video output of my VCR into the audio input of my cassette deck. Played back the VHS and hit record on the cassette deck. Then I plugged the TV into the cassette audio output and hit play on the cassette. Nothing. Just gobbledeegook on the screen. I knew it wouldn't work, but it was still very fun to try and it set me off to learn exactly why it didn't work. The point of my story is that while it didn't work, it wasn't a waste of time. Exploration is never a waste. The exploration IS the fun.
Well, a lot of early movie film and even later home-recording film formats ran at just 16fps, so it's not a million miles away. Just run it at double speed, or maybe have a synchronised needle on both sides of a vertically-played disc, and you're there. Subterranean Homesick Blues would probably be a perfect match for the medium, btw. And maybe a bit of Caravan Palace, especially any of their vids in B/W with classic style animation.
I know this isn't much about quality of playback but the video looks like someone printed a flipbook containing all the frames on a printer that's running out of ink
True, but consider just how big a stack of paper that would end up requiring, and how much toner/ink it would use... Even if you reduced the images to a size that gave them a similar resolution and brightness-level range as is exhibited by the video. It's still a heck of a job compressing all that into a single groove in a 7-inch piece of plastic. You could probably achieve similar results with a reel of Super 8 film that's about the same diameter, but that would still be several times *thicker*.
PurpleVidaar I actually developed a program to print color photographs on a BW laser printer using elaborate modulation. And my printer was running out of ink. And the quality was still pretty good.
You never cease to amaze me by the obscure recording formats you find! The video of these reminds me of the effect used on the telescreens in the movie _1984_
Welp I never should have watched this now I have to have one because that is the coolest thing I have ever heard of. I find watching this channel to be so expensive but satisfying.
The red mage seeks the legend of the vinyl vision disk to fight the encroaching chaos? I heard it was last seen in a weathered sandstone tower, deep in the northern desert, beneath the ruins of an ancient floating city. It is rumored to have been destroyed, crushed under the violent breath of Tiamat.
Fascinating. Really quite remarkable that a signal that good is being produced by such a relatively slow RPM. Quite a lot of information being transmitted after all.
This is the type of tech i personally really enjoy :D thanks for sharing. Also i love the image quality it feels right for the time frame. It would be really cool to see a steampunk version of that maybe.
So interesting, and when you click into the links in the description its absolutely fascinating.. recording 'TV, transatlantic broadcasting in 1928, recording BBC programme broadcast at home in early 1930's... I thought I knew a but about tech history but I didn't know that.. thanks..
Does anyone else have this thing where Techmoan is like the only channel that speaks fast enough to not get bored and have to take breaks from the video? Thank you so much techmoan for being one of the only people who speaks at the same speed that my brain processes language.
Not saying that it is.. But, depending on how this reacts when noise or bad spots on the record, it would be incredibly easy to fake actually feeding the video from the vinyl. With such a limited amount of releases all you would need is the initialization part to tell the pi what you are playing, then a watchdog pulse from the record to tell the pi the record is still playing. You could have all the actual recordings on the sd card. Again, I'm not saying this is happening, but it sure would be possible.
If you figured out the format it should be possible to encode a novel source material to test this. Wouldn't even have to be anything complicated, maybe even a single scan line that's a checkerboard. And you don't need to cut it on a record either, just feed the audio in.
wolvenar makes a good point that all the video content of those 4 vinyl records *could* conceivably just be stored on the SD card in the Raspberry Pi, and triggered to be displayed as the record is playing. (insert asterisk here) One way to test that, might be to use one of the original records from the 1990's/2000's (assuming those 10 records hadn't also been added to the Pi SD card). Alternatively someone could deliberately temporarily impair said vinyl record, by deliberately fouling it up, however I cannot think of a way of doing that temporarily that would not cause lasting harm to the stylis needle or the record itself (eg blutack or sellotape would be no-noes !). But this is certainly an interesting technology and the new decoder unit certainly looks neatly made inside. (Asteriskal insertion follows... it is my understanding there have been a number of cases over the years, some involving many millions of dollars worth of technology and government contracts (for "explosive sniffers'), where for several years, nobody EVER, not even once, did an independent test and evaluation of the equipment, they simply took the manufacturer's word that it worked as stated in the adverts ! Note I am NOT saying that is happening in this case ! Just that wolvenar made a good point.
This is one of the best channels, informative, well edited, no misleading titles plus you put a lot of time into this (not to mention the money). Great job
This has tremendous appeal as video art. I've been a fan of Gebhard Sengmüller, one of the developers, ever since I discovered his 'Parallel Image' art installation. This explores an alternate, very early method of television (unlike Baird's) in which an array of light sensors and corresponding light bulbs are wired directly together. Lots of wires!
@@ReinventingTheSteve whether it's in heaven or hell, Lemmy is partying with Philthy Animal and the Ramones atm. Only difference is, if they're in hell the musics probably better.
These days whenever someone cuts one of those on it takes me forever to get use to it. I used to never notice it. I'm 28 and hear that squeal very loudly since not being around it in so long.
Thank you Mat, for providing me with hours and hours of amazing content. Not only is every video extremely entertaining, but the production quality is superb. And what makes your videos so enjoyable for me is the excellent narration and your sense of humor, which is very subtle and always cheers me up.
A huge, Massive thank you for your ongoing commitment to providing these excellent videos. Your care, attention, technical accuracy, modesty and the quality of the videos, narration, lighting and audio are all second-to-none. Possibly dusting could do with some work ;) Both me and my 10 year old son think you are, frankly, bloomin' awesome, and RUclips is not a place of many thank-yous.
There are relatively many people who have equipment that works with the 12,5fps 30 line Baird or 32 line NBTVA (Narrow Bandwidth Television Association) standards. I wonder why they didn't go for those standards. Quality of the NBTVA material is quite a bit better than this. But maybe the existing standards won't hold up to recording it on vinyl.
This is the very definition of a passion project! Beautifully executed, but with no point except to exist as an amusing curiosity. A drunken conversation with friends, made manifest.
They should use a 12" record and play it at 45 rpm where the higher linear velocity of the needle would give better quality on the outside - or even 78 rpm!
GREAT video! I'm a tech geek, and this video worked out great for me. What I thought straight away when after he played the A/V on the TV - "What does it sound like if you just play the audio on that?" Check, he did it. Then I wondered how the video was encoded into the record, and what the spectrum looked like. Check, he did it. Then I wondered what was inside the unit. Check, he did it. Also things like seeing what was on the SD card, and trying different phonographs and TVs. I was very satisfied. :D
The future of home video has come!!!! Bluray? DEAD!!!! THE FUTURE IS NOW!!!! Also, I had no idea you could even fit video of any description onto a 45 at all. That's really cool! I wonder how much time they could fit onto an LP...
@@video99couk that's just wrong. You can't say Beta is better at image quality than VHS. In the early days this might have been true but as VHS established itself it was improved so much. If I look at a regular VHS recording on one of my high end machines (like the Panasonic NV-FS200 and the NV-HS1000) it looks like HD compared to early Beta. I was talking about my first generation machine. I have never seen SuperBeta or ED-Beta. So I can't say anything about that.
Of a given vintage, comparing like with like, Beta (certainly PAL Beta) has higher luma and chroma resolution and lower noise than VHS. Compare a Sony SL-C30 to a Panasonic NV-333. I have had both an FS200 and HS1000, they are certainly fine machines.
Fivos Sakellis - Not quite the same. The PXL2000 ran the tape at about double speed to get better bandwidth. I suspect, however, this would work on a normal cassette tape with the low resolution and frame rate.
I think the PXL ran rather more than double speed - closer to 5 times. It didn't even fit a full ten minutes on a C90. And it used the full width of the tape, so no turning over to get additional recording on the other side. Basically it used the audio cassette as a low quality, linear scan form of VHS, and IIRC it didn't drop the framerate or vertical rez, just the horizontal, so it would have had to keep the same scan/sync structure etc, requiring a lot more bandwidth than the VV probably does (as it reduces resolution both ways AND reduces framerate). TM demonstrated in a follow-up video to this that you can copy the audio onto cassette and successfully play it back... for a small value of success. A recognisable image came out, but it looked far worse than even the original. The blurb bangs on about pushing the limits of what can be stored on Vinyl ... for a 7" at 45rpm, that's probably bandwidth somewhere in the 30 to 50kHz range, if you heavily emphasise the ultrasonic treble range and go for resolution at the expense of noise (as you're pulling the sharpest details out of the signal very close to the noise floor, far closer than audio would normally allow and only getting away with it because the eye is far more forgiving of noise than the ear, whilst the reserve is true for all-out resolution). Copy that to a cassette and you pretty much instantly lose at least half if not two thirds of the headroom, and thus the horizontal resolution. It also seemed to have a lot of the picture disappear into noise, which is as you'd expect given the higher noise floor of even the best cassettes vs typical vinyl.
Wow, VinylVideo was real? I emailed them 10 years ago and never received a reply so I assumed the old website was an art project or the company had folded.
The original was, and the original artist probably stopped paying any attention to that inbox. 2008 would have put you in-between the retirement of the original exhibit, and its more recent revival by a mostly unrelated group of art-terrorist (but entirely commercially minded) hipsters.
While the people on 4k are probably wondering why they bothered for this video, those on crappy internet and 144p postage stamp video are probably thinking it looks no different to normal
When I heard that the Innovator was an "Kunststudent" (Art Student) I was like "My goodness, this thing will look nice and fancy, but is so far away from a real working thing as I am from be the King of England". 300.000 dollars for a simple "fancy pancy looking" dehumidifier. Job well done I would say :D
We normal people are very judgmental toward Austria because of some crazy wannabe "inventor" and his obscure "invention." We should write the petition to US Senate and try to ban Austria from existence. I think that is very reasonable. Playing VinylVideo card to rescue Austria from its doom is utterly pointless.
Austrians also invented the shipscrew without even be connected to the seas, the typewriter and thousands good things more, and even bad things i wanna talk about. At least we try and have a well trained culture of failure... pls love us, or at least respect us. Im Austrian and kind of inventor too...
Actually probably a justifiable use of the inherent power, too, other than for an emulator box. There's so many Pi projects that you can essentially implement with a much simpler microcontroller... or a 555 and a couple of additional flip-flops.... or a simple switch and a latch... whereas this at least involves some kind of signal processing (...after the point where the signal is digitised and presented via USB, anyway)
There's a bit of very high frequency noise coming from the CRT monitor from around 7:37 and again (but louder) at 8:10 & 8:31. Just thought I'd let you know since I think I remember you talking about this in another video. Now to finish!
I think it might've been Tom Scott's video that you're thinking of. ruclips.net/video/RA5UiLYWdbM/видео.html Sadly I'm not able to finish watching this video due to the whine.
Oh boy, do I get my cane and get to talk about in my time this was everywhere and we were made of sterner stuff that coil whine wasn't that big a deal, that the youth of the day is so soft and spoiled that a little sound scares them off? We weren't scared of a little high pitch noise, we were scared of getting annihilated in a nuclear fireball. But please, tell me how the thing that was in every room with a tv is "unbearable"
Thanks for sending me out on an internet rabbit hole... I'm at 6:21 and that box from Holger Czukay, and I just decided to read more on him and one of my favorite bands, Can (he was a founding member). GREAT STUFF! (I'd never heard of that boxset, so that's why I went down the hole!)
Because a/ they'd have to do SOMETHING to provoke the content to be loaded from the SD card, b/ the latency is far too good for a typical digital video system on cheap hardware, c/ it would be about as much work to set up a timecoded vinyl system (which itself has a very characteristic visual appearance - and usually comes on 12") that could accurately detect and decode the codes as to just build a decoder for the actual video, and an encoder to produce high-frequency files to master the discs from, d/ why are there snatches of audio between the video sync areas? e/ it would be ludicrously easy for someone to scope the card filesystem and prove they were bullshitting, including ejecting the card once the system was loaded (it almost certainly won't need to make any further filesystem accesses, and an RPi's RAM is nowhere near large enough to store the necessary video data without reference to flash storage) and showing that it's suddenly unable to decode the video. f/ it would also be ludicrously easy to make a proper analysis of the audio content, if you were actually bothered and knew what you were doing, and prove whether or not there was anything there at all other than some timecode information (which would itself be pretty obvious, as it binary-codes a wholly unique high-bit-count number several dozen times per second, producing an easily demonstrated and decoded variation in either frequency and/or amplitude; plain sync pulses are absolutely regular with no variation in frequency or amplitude). A, B and C suggest it would be about as much work to produce the supposed "fake" system (which has been shown to be capable of instantly responding to changes in playback speed as well as switching between multiple sources, dealing with artificially engineered loops, _as well as_ instantly changing the video brightness in response to changes in the incoming waveform amplitude _and_ showing a somewhat corrupted image in response to playback from tape, in a way that looks like a video filter rather than simply losing track of the timecode) as to simply make the real thing. E and F mean that you'd be taking a hell of a risk trying such a blag and then releasing it to a somewhat obviously nerdy public, who would be curious to figure out how the thing works. Any attempt at actual subterfuge would be ripped to shreds, in minutes, with pretty basic gear. The techniques you'd have to employ to pull off each trick are somewhat different from each other, and are only fleetingly similar to untrained eyes (who, however, have _just enough_ training to be dangerous). Actual audio timecode, when you examine it even passingly, is well different from TV sync. It has to be, in order to actually work. And TV sync can't be anything like timecode, otherwise it won't work either. If you're going to start doing some other more complex encoding scheme, well... you're putting complicated encoding on vinyl, and decoding it with a Raspberry Pi already. Why not just slap analogue video on there and have done with it? A script for producing a suitable audio stream from an input video file would be an afternoon's work, with AviSynth and other such tools (and maybe upgrading from Audacity to Adobe Audition, nee CoolEdit, which had built-in scripting functions that could do half the job all by itself). You're already going to have to find someone who can press vinyl from a digital file, so that part is already a given. All you've then got to do is build the decoder, which is simpler than constructing the AI-ish system needed to respond to all the potential weirdnesses of the input audio and apply filters or jump around the flash-stored streams with less-than-MPEG latency. D is an oddity, if you're using timecode. Why bother with it? As a red herring to the casual analyst? Maybe the system is only capable of showing a stream of images in response to the timecode and still needs the audio supplied? But, if you've got the code to sample, isolate, re-stitch and re-time the analogue audio, you can totally do exactly the same with a monochrome video signal, it's not rocket science, it's just a greater amount of data. And it would be simple enough to at least test whether it's a red herring - take a completely different piece of audio, stitch it in place in a sampled piece of VV sound, and play that into the machine, see if the output changes. Similarly, in fact, you can fairly easily test if it's actually timecode without even bothering to try and analyse it - just sample it at a frequency that preserves the sync pulses pretty much unchanged, but massively reduces the overall bandwidth of the file. Say, cut it down to 8kHz instead of 96kHz. If it's just reading timecode from the stream, it should play back exactly the same, as that should be enough to preserve a short sync pulse once per ~1/650th second line and whatever infomation it may encode. Or it'll fail to play at all, or play random frames from all the different videos, if that's enough to corrupt the timecode. But if it's actually pulling video data from there, it should be unrecognisably blurry, as the horizontal resolution will have been massively reduced from its already low level (and to far below even what audio cassette offers). Unless of course we then jam our tinfoil hats firmly onto our heads and assume that the people making this thing have gone to the trouble of installing a filter driver to their input processing chain that can _detect whether the user has deliberately futzed about with the original signal in all different kinds of ways_ and applies special effects to the stored video accordingly. More simply: run it through a graphical EQ, or even something that offers simple Bass and Treble controls. Jack the treble, see if the image suddenly looks oversharpened. Attenuate it, see if it becomes soft. Do similar for the bass and see if the image suffers variously from bloom or a lack of contrast. If they went to the trouble of installing filters that can not only apply those filters, but detect them in the first place (which is starting to get into the realms of AI), their priorities really ARE fucked. Bear in mind, by the way, that the original version of this was first shown off in _1998,_ - twenty years ago, before the age of high powered AV-capable SBCs and, moreover, high capacity, high speed flash cards - and exhibition visitors, whilst unlikely to be able to pull the thing apart or take samples of the audio for later analysis, were invited to get up close and personal and play with it. If the small decoder box had a hard drive full of video in it, and the then-high-end computing hardware to deal with it, that probably would have been rather obvious. The necessary electronics to do the "real" job, however, so long as you had sufficiently high quality vinyl and playback gear, would have been small, cheap, and low power even at the time. These days you could do it with a DSP and a microcontroller (and a very low capacity SRAM chip).
My girlfriend moved to germany today and me and my best friend of 6 years got into a really bad fight today so I am now finding solace in your videos so thank you
![Tee Grizzley - Blow for Blow (feat. J. Cole) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wNLN5xsx5dc/mqdefault.jpg)
*There's more information in the video description text box.*
I subscribed to your channel long time ago. I really do like your videos especially those with cassettes and i was just wondering if you could make a video with a technics m205 tape deck because i heard it's a nice one. Thank you for reading my message!
@@BilisNegra I don't think i said something bad. He's making videos with cassette players as well because this channel is based on these things.
I don't think you said anything bad either. I wont be getting that tape deck though because I've already got better ones that are working fine. However you can see a similar motor mechanism to that deck used inside the Co-Deck ruclips.net/video/-QVKfWSSM5o/видео.html
Yes you're absolutely right - each thing I reviewed has to have something that I find interesting or different about it. If the M205 did something that no other tape deck did, I might well add it to the list...but it doesn't.
@@Techmoan I saw that video many times and that's why i asked you to make that video and i know you have better ones. I have better ones too ( technics RS-D190W and technics RS-TR212) but unfortunately those are broken. However my father bought that model and next month when he will get home, he will bring it with him. But anyway sorry for asking you this.
Holy hell, the Baird phonovision image was nightmarish.
Terrifying!
This is probably a lot better than the baird recordings, it is certainly higher resolution.
It scared me too.
To be fair, that's what you get, when you use a clown's head. That would be just as terrifying in modern HD.
It's not that much better than over the air or modern recorded nbtv. Framerate of both Baird and NBTVA systems is 12,5fps.
Examples: www.nbtv.wyenet.co.uk/jeremy.jpg
Screencap of an actual mechanical Nipkow-disk television: bs.cyty.com/menschen/e-etzold/archiv/TV/mechanical/img/disk_light_pic.jpg
If you search on 'narrow bandwith television' or NBTVA 32 line you'll also find some video.
If there's some kind of a alternate steampunk universe, that's probably what they use for video entertainment :p
In an infinite universe, it exists.
Or Edison's cylinders, not that they're that far removed.
Can confirm, life is terrible there
it will at least last for centurys if trested well... ;) analog is better :))
By the way: The concept of a vinyl video respectively photographs reaches back to the Voyager 1 mission. The golden record the scientists developed to be included on the Voyager 1 (just in case aliens found it) includes a number of photographs which could be opened by using a certain mathematical method which was included on the record.
Excellent observation. Can we get Techmoan to review the Voyager 1 Golden Record??
Somebody did it: ruclips.net/video/ibByF9XPAPg/видео.html
They recorded mechanical TV broadcasts on vynil in the 1920s and 30s
someone didn’t watch the video
"I'll leave things like smartphone reviews to the other guys."
One of craziest video formats I've ever seen.
If it would be invented in 50s-60s it would be extremely popular.
Yes indeed. Problem with this format and the CED was that we did not have the computing power for encoding video into such small bandwidth. And not even for decoding, which is much easier. This became only sort of available in the 90s with MPEG. But even the first iterations of that would not have gotten down to 225kbit/s. Remember REAL video...? That was more in that domain and looked... horrible!
The TED video disc player from the german company Telefunken in 1975 was very similar and was commercially available for a couple of years and unlike the video recorders from around the same time period had a reasonable catalogue of programs available for it.The big drawback was that each disc held only 10 minutes of playing time.
ruclips.net/video/_Xe-Jw4N7wQ/видео.html
Arne Schmitz I'd love to see a modern upgrade to this with H.265! I wonder how long it could play with the quality set the same or keep the same duration, but bump up the quality.
i don't think so. this is very underground/grunge which means it is geared more towards the 70's/80's, it would have been too ahead of it'self in the 50's or 60's and would not suit the ideologies or aesthetic of the time. this is a lovely little gimmick but for what it can do and for who it will do it for there isn't much of a chance it would do anything other than flop that far back XD
Never. 50-60 were Technicolor era. Great colours and good quality. But this product is piece of useless shit.
Good thing Techmoan buys all those overpriced hipster products so we don't have to.
When he dies (not that I'm wishing it!!!) they should open up a Techmoan Interactive Museum for people to come in and play with all this stuff for themselves. I, personally would love to have a hands-on experience with a Tefifon player.
I thought you were going a different direction with the "Hands-On Techmoan Experience"
This one's not all that expensive, TBH. Sure, more than most sane folks would spend on something with such a limited appeal, but still. If you're into this sort of weird thing, then this is definitely a very affordable addition to your collection.
Will they turn him into an animatronic?
@@lezzman
I just saw a tefifon in a flea market here in germany a few months ago. I thought about buying it, but then again, what would ibneed it for :D
Great video - thanks for the shout-out to my channel. I knew you would do a much more in-depth look at Vinyl Video than I could. I'm really curious how to record original material in the format now to make some more Vinyl Video records.
You'd need to convert the video file to the correct specifications (color depth, resolution, audio bitrate, number of channels, encoding format, ...). After that, the resulting file needs to be modulated into an audio signal that can be recorded to tape, pressed to vinyl, or if you wanna go really perverse: encoded as a digital audio file. In both cases you're looking at a collection of unknown parameters that you'd need to figure out somehow.
Your best bet: contact the makers, and ask them if they'd be willing to share the details. Reverse engineering is also possible, but not easy at all, so expect to pay through the nose if you're lucky enough to find someone who's up to the task. Realistically, the only option is to contact the makers and hope they're the sharing type.
This would be awsome to outhipster the hipsters..
Imagine a group of hipsters sitting in front of a coffeeshop, listing to their phonographs and 8 tracks while writing their novels on typewriters.
Then you come along with a 1940's television, hook it up to your gramaphone and start watching videoclips in 4:3 black and white..
That would be awesome haha.
And writing your Codex with feathers and ink on vellum.
I didn't survive into the 21st century so hipsters can try to convince me I need to buy all my old shit back.
Next level hispter shit
Some kind of Super Hipster !
They’d just look at you weirdly and say you’re crazy because you’re not doing what everyone else is doing.
I recently asked RUclips for copies of Techmoan videos posted to me on DV tape, but I never heard back from them...
Maybe you sent your telegram to the wrong address!
Perhaps they didn't get your carrier pigeon?
RUclips STOP
PLEASE SEND TECHMOAN VIDEOS ON DV TAPE STOP
PS HOPE HE WILL NEVER STOP STOP
KRAFTWERK2K6: MiniDV tape is 25 Mbit/second, and some early HD cameras used MPEG to record high quality 1440x1080 ("HDV") on MiniDV cassettes. It's not difficult at all to get reasonably good 4K video into 25 Mbit/sec. Not good enough for camera masters or theater projection, but good enough for home viewing on a 6' screen.
KRAFTWERK2K6: I wish I knew if you were joking - if so, just ignore the rest of this. You had me until "interlaced". Interlaced was a good workaround WAAAAY back, when it was barely possible to get an acceptable picture into an acceptable bandwidth. It made sense when we had CRT TVs with long enough persistence to make it useful. Now, with displays that always scan progressive no matter the source, there is no excuse for interlacing. It's just a way of overcomplicating things, that just forces the player software to do some kind of interpolation, provides another way to get it wrong in the edit.
But even then, I don't miss a THING about videotape. I would never go beyond napkin calculations in a bar, when it comes to taking a giant step backward into either tape or vinyl recording.
I'm impressed that it's even possible to store enough data on a vinyl format to have video playback. Granted the quality is less than ideal. But I'd never have guessed such a thing existed.
Makes it more impressive how detailed music was all this time ago
You might even find some digitally archived old "VinylVideos" on the internet. I'd like to see them recorded on 8-track and then run though the decoder. "8-track video!"
Or an Endless loop tape!
That would be phenomenal.
I was going to say the same thing, only with cassette. The videos are reminiscent of the PXL 2000, but I’m curious if what is being played from the vinyl record can be done from the cassette playing at its regular speed, instead of super fast like the PXL 2000 did.
Looping GIF on an 8-track! It should work if you can find out the format these things are encoded in. The website seems to indicate it's a closed source codec so probably not a common format.
Exactly.. Would be interesting to see him experiment with copying these disc to various analogue magnetic formats to see if it would work.
MÖTORHEAD is so badass, they even have the music on VinylVideo!
The are the MÖTORHEAD, and their vinylvideo plays on a machine which has a motor and a head (stylus).
From the 90s when this was introduced, to 2018, there was a tremendous progress to compression quality video codecs. So with a machine built today with a codec like h.265 you could probably fit a lot better quality in the same reduced bandwidth on analog media.
I just wanted to thank you for continuing to put out interesting, intelligent tech content on your channel. The type of subject matter is right up my alley and I don't nor can't find it anywhere else. Please keep doing what you are doing. I, for one, appreciate it very much. I tip my hat to you good sir.
I fully agree Chris this is one of the finest vlog sites on RUclips.
Word! Brilliant level of nerdiness, presentation style and reference base (of someone my age)
Get a PXL2000!
Yea he kills it i binged watch him at first
Maybe check out Technology Connections, it's not the same style in many regards but it IS a channel focused mostly on old tech, however it's less explorative and more educative, it goes into some level of technical details and history. He's got videos on LaserDisc, Cassette, VHS, Beta, CD, and even a 5 video series covering the history of the CED video vynils and what happened at RCA during the LONG development of the format. However you'll miss the british charm featured in this channel...
Sorry for a plug that isn't even for me, I just want the vintage and obscure/niche tech youtube community to be a thing and I'm doing my small part.
I'm really impressed with the packaging and build quality. They've clearly put some time and attention into this. A labour of love.
It's kind of a delightful thing. I'm guessing this could not have existed back in the day since the decoder would have been prohibitively expensive with 70s computer technology.
I'm surprised Jack White hasn't released a single on this format yet, he's all about quirky vinyl.
Give him time! But his version might be a wax cylinder version of this!!
I think it would have been impossible in the 70s, it is a frequency modulated digital signal and decoding it in real time and outputting it as video even today takes quite some power.
With analog technology, this is impossible. I think in the 80s it would have been feasible.
One could adapt the encoding to the available decoding hardware, so some tricks to need less computation power would surely have been found. Like the Apple 1 which used some glitches in NTSC to display color with no computational overhead.
Nope, it even says in one of the example sleeves that it's amplitude modulated. Same as monochrome baseband TV, or a CCTV format like RS343. Very simple, your main complications are a/ separating and keeping time with the sync (which might wobble a bit, much like a very old tape - you'd want a timebase corrector or something), b/ separating and playing the audio at a correct, varying rate, c/ most particularly, feeding the video into a suitably large framebuffer that it could then be replayed from at normal speed.
The first two are actually not that difficult, regular TV/video recorder equipment has to manage it inherently, or at least maintain a correct line and frame rate even if the actual scanning speed is free-running (generally the rate at which the rate the content is delivered at changes very gradually and only by a small amount, so it may cause a small amount of bending or wobble in the image but no major desync). More sophisticated models could vary the actual spot-scanning speed horizontally and vertically (essentially, the H/V "hold") to compensate for varying sync frequency which implied a varying spot scan rate at the camera end, or the equivalent of such caused by a warped tape.
The second is essentially a function of the first. You have to sample the audio at moderate to high speed (perhaps 80 to 100kHz equivalent) and plunk _that_ into some kind of relatively small buffer - maybe 2kb equivalent, in the case of VV - whilst remaining in sync with the incoming signal, then play it out at a fixed fraction of whatever the _current_ synched speed is, with some method of chase-play (either have just that single small buffer and loop around it, with just enough space for the fresh high-speed input to dart ahead of the low speed output, for a tiny fraction of a second every 1/4.16th of a second or so, or have it tied to a double video buffer so a whole chunk of data is written into a backbuffer whilst the previous one is being more slowly read out, with audio being part of the total stream, and essentially being the driving force behind when the bank is switched - when the audio runs out, you immediately switch to the other bank, even if it's not full up yet, and reduce/increase the play rate to compensate for any under/overflow)...
The third is the true sticking point for any notional historical version of the device. Essentially, you can't easily do it in any way I can see without microchip grade memory, preferably DRAM, which puts a certain date limit on things (because it came slightly later than SRAM, IIRC). Even using the earliest chips means you're going to have quite a stack of electronics, easily desktop PC sized if not later rackmount minicomputer (PDP11 etc), and investing both a lot of money into buying plus quite a bit of electrical power running the thing. If we take the pioneering Altair 8800 as an example, the first micro available in any numbers and with a useful spec list, and purchaseable not only as a kit but fully built for people who were unable/unwilling to solder... its bare form, with about the most minimal useful CPU (i8080 at 2MHz) and only 256 bytes of memory, plus no useful I/O never mind a video interface, cost $439 in the early 70s... in kit form. If you wanted to add an 8KB memory board to that (the largest offered at first, and the company soon fell back to only offering them in the 1 to 4KB range because of the sheer number of tightly-packed chips that entailed, as well as a general lack of demand for those vs the clamour for lower-end parts), that would easily double the total system price, possibly more so. I forget the exact price, but let's say a ready-built system cost $500 and if you wanted it to come with 8KB, that was $1000, a nice round number for a starter computer (equal to $4000~5000 today), so long as you could provide your own terminal and data storage hardware.
Thing is, that's not very much memory when it comes to video. A simple 64x16 text screen occupies 1KB, the more common 80x25 needs almost 2KB, and that's in flat monochrome, no character attributes, and using a separate character ROM. The same memory could get you a 160x102 bitmap, again in black and white only, no greyscales. Our video here is probably somewhere closer to 160x204 as a minimum (though the actual framebuffer used is probably at least twice the width if not four times, to avoid overlaying excessive quantisation onto the blurry analogue signal), with 8 bits per pixel to provide a smooth greyscale display. If you economised somewhat you could get away with somewhere between 4 and 6 bits, separated into boards each holding a separate bitplane (a good way to increase bandwidth even if you're still using 8bpp) instead of discrete bytes. So we're already looking at anywhere from 8 to 16KB for our framebuffer. But, the way this format works is to read in two new frames simultaneously with displaying a third. Even if we arrange it so one of those overwrites the old one "live", in a "tearing" fashion over fully six output field times, we still need to store the second one somewhere temporarily. And the frames don't look like they're tearing much (a little might be unavoidable, towards the bottom of the image, to compensate for sync drift, but generally it's not a problem), so it's likely triple buffered. Thus we actually need anywhere from 24 to 48KB, even without considering the true resolution could be larger still (e.g. 256x240, which would be roughly doubled once again - and by that point threatening to exceed the available address space of the system). It's getting expensive... even before we consider the decidedly pricey input ADC board and its various discriminators and gates that would be the actual things under CPU control (there'd have to be an awful lot of DMA to work around the i8080's extremely slow inherent data transfer speed, it'd be relegated purely to system controller status), and the video output board that would be quite fancy stuff for even the end of the 1970s (well, arguably the system in the Atari 8-bits would come close...), we're looking at a minimum system cost of $2000, and possibly more like $3500+. In early 1970s dollars.
In other words, the decoder system for this thing would cost you as much as a half decent car, or even - thanks to the low property prices of the time - a small house. With the vast majority of the cost going into the output buffer. There's a reason most early computers had truly awful displays, either plaintext only or very chunky graphics that makes even the VV look sophisticated ... it's because that shit eats memory, and memory was dead expensive at the time. Same reason the ZX81 came with only 1KB on board... even the better part of a decade later it wasn't particularly cheap. For £100 in 1981 you could get a kit computer that was just about good enough to show a small amount of text on screen and let you type in some very short BASIC programs. And prices had tumbled in-between.
And, well... compared to any other previous technology, microchip memory was _stupidly cheap,_ and unbelievably compact and energy-efficient. You might have seen the famous image of an 8GB microSD card perched on top of an 8 _byte_ core memory array. That intricate looking thing? Hand woven. Later versions of the same managed as much as 1 kilobit (128 bytes) or even 4 kilobits, still made by hand by skilled ex-seamstresses. That kind of work _costs._ Ideally, our video system would need the equivalent of 192 of those later boards, but we could probably get away with 48. And bear in mind how big they are; even the smaller ones used ferrite doughnuts about half the size of an entire SD card.
The signal discrimination, switching and control systems? Myeh, they're child's play. Any decent television, even in the vacuum tube period, had sufficient electronic power to deal with that. But it didn't have a suitable data storage mechanism.
I suppose maybe you could have used a trio of continually circulating high-grade magnetic tapes, or small drums even, to store the picture information, but they'd have to continually change speed, and do so extremely accurately and in tight sync, to an arbitrary timing signal (derived from the audio input), in order to convert two simultaneous low speed input streams into two high speed ones that play out sequentially, and repeatedly, at 6x the speed, 6x over. But, wait, no, that's wrong, isn't it. You'd actually need four tapes (and indeed four memory banks - so the estimate is now anywhere from 32KB to a full 64KB, maxing out the bus, or even 128KB (we're bank switching anyway, so, no big problem, it's just even pricier)... you'd have to lose at least a couple of lines, then, just to have space to store the operating program, though it's entirely possible that you'd put the memory on a separate bus to the CPU, have it only able to store/access information about the control side of things, and never the twain shall meet), as two would be occupied recording the incoming video data (and audio) at 1/12th effective playback speed per tape (four and a bit blocks per second, for 50 field/sec output), whilst the other two were accelerated near-instantly to full 12x speed, one reading out 6x then the other 6x. At least it would mean they could share a common drive axle per pair.... and of course if you had (extremely low inertia...) drums, that'd just be two heads per drum instead of one. Or maybe eight to sixteen, recording a lower frequency stream of bits (plus two or four more for the sync pulses) instead of a single high frequency analogue one.
Hmm, I wonder. That last bit means, if you could engineer the physical side of things to a sufficiently crazy-precise degree, it might yet be doable with pre-transistor technology. Just.
Even so, really, 8mm film doesn't seem like a particularly bad format in comparison to this, especially Super 8 with magnetic soundtrack. It's at least as high resolution, can be had in colour, etc.
Nothing like getting stuck in a RUclips hole in the middle of the night /early morning(it's 4:30am where I am hahah) and then getting a notification for a new techmoan masterpiece.
If you record the signal to a cassette, can you play the cassette into the decoder and get video?
Good question. I'd be very interested in that. As we all know audio tape was a very versatile medium back in the day, and even included computer data storage for a lot of 8-bit computers.
You probably could. Tape has more bandwith then vinyl so it should fit on it without problem.
For the decoder it shouldn't matter where the datastream comes from.
You probably could do it from a mp3 player as well. But what's the fun in that right :)
You mean like a video cassette recorder?
But the decoder is also a pre-amp so maybe the video signal is low level like the audio?
There is a difference between trying to record a VCR signal straight to the audiocassette tape and using first the encoder of video signal making it extremely low frquency demanding like we saw in this video. In the 80s there was a handy cameras writing the analog video signal straight to the audiocassette tape, but a very high speed of tape drive was used. And as we see here, the vynil playing speed stays as usual, but the frame rate and resolution is reduced first.
So yes, if we take such encoder that used to write the signal to the vynil, we probably coud use the audiocassette tape as well.
I made a similar slow scan TV system for low power radio. It also "works" on audio cassette. It's not as clear as that but it does have colour and 12.5 fps :-)
i was thinking that same thing with the Fisherprice Pixelvision cam
For a half a second I thought.... "Wow that would be cool to send a TV signal over airwav.... Ohhhh"
12.5 f/s is pretty fast. What resolution, and what encoding/modulation?
40 lines, 36 of which are active video. The horizontal resolution depends on the media but in ideal conditions it's ~36 pixels. So not that great :-)
The colour is transmitted on each line before the luminance, it's based loosely on the old TV standard MAC: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplexed_Analogue_Components
I've an example of it being transmitted over radio here: ruclips.net/video/svcqkk4zdMw/видео.html
I'll upload the cassette version soon, but it's pretty horrible. I'd love to see how it would look on vinyl.
Yo that's cool ar
"Hipster's Paradise" Now I want to sing that to the tune of "Gangster's Paradise."
With a backing of duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh
Well, when you think about it, this isn't a million miles away from "Amish Paradise". Which does exist.
I recall seeing this at FACT in Liverpool and it really lingered with me. At the time I was working within media doing Internet and video encoding and this thing just blow my mind. But I think it is really those dial-up modem problems that likely gave birth to such a crazy idea. As back then the whole internet experience was about compression which led to much innovation in getting a thumbnail sized video to be something that was usable. The odd thing is that these videos seem to pay little attention to the rules I would constantly be telling content producers; don't move the camera, try to keep movement to a small part of the frame, don't cut too often, colour rules... anything like this would just pulls the image apart. But I guess the encoding it is part of the aesthetic of this format. It reminds me a bit of the PXL-2000 compact cassette format , a blurred version. And a B&W version of the recent colour compact cassette experiment that was done recently. I'd love to play with the encoding tech of this, I am sure with my years of encoding and media production for dial-up modems, an amazing subset of skills that is now useless. I could get a brilliant image on this format, and maybe have more data for better audio at the same time - but I imagine this is limited. As I don't know if people recall early dial-up video but it didn't encode like this thing does, like when someone talks and the mouth becomes a glitch of burnt in pixels. I love all these experiments in getting video into odd formats, just so useless today. As the odd paradox with encoding is that as the encoding technology and maths gets better the bandwidth is getting amazingly high. I can't think of a modern real purpose for good low bandwidth video encoding. Even before we are all into 4k we are at a point where 80%+ of our current internet's bandwidth is video. Imagine what will happen when 8k becomes a thing? We could really give everyone free Internet and just charge for HD & HD+ video streaming, could be doing that already - as RUclips, Netflix, Amazon, Apple TV and a few others are 80% of our bandwidth already. The internet has become one big continuous video stream. I hate myself for watching and showing people the same video I don't retain or hold. It is all a constant flux of new video data nano-second by nano-second, crazy. On to the next vid...
You are very, very desperate to sound intelligent. Didn't need a massive run on paragraph to tell us that.
"80% of the internet's current bandwidth is video"
No, just.....no. That's not how bandwidth works. Please stop.
@@omgrapist k
Not reading that
Part of me was hoping for the decoding to be purely analog.
It could be done, but the decoder would be enormous, power-hungry, & expensive. Particularly the line- & frame-rate interpolation. You'd be looking at a rack of equipment 70 cm square & 2 meters tall, sucking down at least a kilowatt continuous, & costing probably a hundred thousand US dollars.
The recording appears to be digital encoded as audio anyway, so not likely to be decoded with analog circuitry
Could only really be purely analog if film stock was exposed, developed and then viewed via a projector. In essence, this is as analog as such a medium gets. The signal mat displayed would likely be analog in nature. However, having not seen the waveform of a vhs video signal, can't say for certain.
@@HiVisionary1125 It can be done a lot easier than that, look up 'NBTV', which is a hybrid system, based on the original Baird mechanical TV, using computers with sound cards to convert the recorded analogue signal to and from normal TV, all-analogue 'televisors' can also be used to directly pickup and view pictures.
Here's your new production workflow in this UHD world: Take a Fisher Price vs2000 camcorder shoot some stuff, capture the two sided reversed audio from the tape edit it reverted in Sound forge, play the audio back tru a fake cassette adapter in the camera (got to see the image to edit), find out how to multiplex the audio in this vinyl format, send the file to those independent vinyl maker (they usually do dj plate) and finallyplay it in this artsy contraption for maximum hipster effects. I'll call it B&W LD format for those creative minds who always make there own mental image either way.
Genius :D
...does LD stand for LoserDisc?
@@gwenynorisu6883 haha good one no just low definition oviously. ND (radio), LD, SD, HD and UHD.
You have no idea how stupidly huge the smile on my face is, seeing a Raspberry Pi inside there.
Awesome. In my early curiosities, I plugged the video output of my VCR into the audio input of my cassette deck. Played back the VHS and hit record on the cassette deck.
Then I plugged the TV into the cassette audio output and hit play on the cassette.
Nothing. Just gobbledeegook on the screen.
I knew it wouldn't work, but it was still very fun to try and it set me off to learn exactly why it didn't work.
The point of my story is that while it didn't work, it wasn't a waste of time. Exploration is never a waste. The exploration IS the fun.
This is so awesome, thanks for sharing it!
As Austrian I approve this product.
As a Nigerian I approve of you, sweet baby.
The picture that Vinylvideo gives reminds me of those early television broadcasts from the 1920s and 1930s.
The "Courettes" one looks like a 405-line kinescope recording from the 1960s.
Looks like Neil Armstrongs first moon step broadcast.
what if you play a normal musical vinyl on it
I think some old, old, old-style blues would sound (and look) pretty awesome on that format.
I don't think looking and sounding awesome really relates to the feeble capabilities of this product. 8fps? This would be mediocre in the 1920's.
Well, a lot of early movie film and even later home-recording film formats ran at just 16fps, so it's not a million miles away. Just run it at double speed, or maybe have a synchronised needle on both sides of a vertically-played disc, and you're there.
Subterranean Homesick Blues would probably be a perfect match for the medium, btw. And maybe a bit of Caravan Palace, especially any of their vids in B/W with classic style animation.
Basically PXL-2000 quality. This is super cool.
I know this isn't much about quality of playback but the video looks like someone printed a flipbook containing all the frames on a printer that's running out of ink
A very accurate description.
True, but consider just how big a stack of paper that would end up requiring, and how much toner/ink it would use... Even if you reduced the images to a size that gave them a similar resolution and brightness-level range as is exhibited by the video. It's still a heck of a job compressing all that into a single groove in a 7-inch piece of plastic. You could probably achieve similar results with a reel of Super 8 film that's about the same diameter, but that would still be several times *thicker*.
PurpleVidaar I actually developed a program to print color photographs on a BW laser printer using elaborate modulation. And my printer was running out of ink. And the quality was still pretty good.
You never cease to amaze me by the obscure recording formats you find! The video of these reminds me of the effect used on the telescreens in the movie _1984_
that's much higher quality than i was expecting , i could actually watch all those records
Welp I never should have watched this now I have to have one because that is the coolest thing I have ever heard of. I find watching this channel to be so expensive but satisfying.
The red mage seeks the legend of the vinyl vision disk to fight the encroaching chaos? I heard it was last seen in a weathered sandstone tower, deep in the northern desert, beneath the ruins of an ancient floating city. It is rumored to have been destroyed, crushed under the violent breath of Tiamat.
That is fantastically hilarious and I approve.
@@Gun4Freedom and keep an eye out for warmech
Deliverytimes now will be multiple months for sure... I bet they never had as much order as they will be getting in the comming couple of days
The Techmoan Effect?
@@piusg yes indeed lol..
I didn’t know I needed this until now.
GameHammer Classic Gaming I didn't know that I in no way needed this until now.
Lunatic Cringe More for me, then. :)
Fascinating. Really quite remarkable that a signal that good is being produced by such a relatively slow RPM. Quite a lot of information being transmitted after all.
Lunchtime at work and a fresh Techmoan Video. This lunch is going to be good. ^^
At home, after 2 hours driving from work , watching Techmoan's new video is such a bliss for me😁
That's what makes your Channel interesting!! Covering old and different kind of tech!!!!
Techmoan...the John Peel of old tech
A perfect gift for someone who has everything!
This is the type of tech i personally really enjoy :D thanks for sharing. Also i love the image quality it feels right for the time frame. It would be really cool to see a steampunk version of that maybe.
So interesting, and when you click into the links in the description its absolutely fascinating.. recording 'TV, transatlantic broadcasting in 1928, recording BBC programme broadcast at home in early 1930's... I thought I knew a but about tech history but I didn't know that.. thanks..
I believe the SD card contents you listed are only of the FAT32 boot partition. There is also a Linux EXT(x) partition containing files
Maybe that is where the video files are hiding
you believe in conspiracies eh
you're crazy if you don't
lol Classic80sStuff:)
Step 1 *Watch this video* ruclips.net/video/Okdh7I06jFM/видео.html
Step 2 Remove egg from face
Does anyone else have this thing where Techmoan is like the only channel that speaks fast enough to not get bored and have to take breaks from the video? Thank you so much techmoan for being one of the only people who speaks at the same speed that my brain processes language.
Not saying that it is.. But, depending on how this reacts when noise or bad spots on the record, it would be incredibly easy to fake actually feeding the video from the vinyl. With such a limited amount of releases all you would need is the initialization part to tell the pi what you are playing, then a watchdog pulse from the record to tell the pi the record is still playing. You could have all the actual recordings on the sd card. Again, I'm not saying this is happening, but it sure would be possible.
Sneaky thinking, but good point
Techmoan should test this!
If you figured out the format it should be possible to encode a novel source material to test this. Wouldn't even have to be anything complicated, maybe even a single scan line that's a checkerboard. And you don't need to cut it on a record either, just feed the audio in.
out here killin the magic, but I would definitely like to see this tested because if it’s true then that’s seriously messed up.
wolvenar makes a good point that all the video content of those 4 vinyl records *could* conceivably just be stored on the SD card in the Raspberry Pi, and triggered to be displayed as the record is playing. (insert asterisk here) One way to test that, might be to use one of the original records from the 1990's/2000's (assuming those 10 records hadn't also been added to the Pi SD card). Alternatively someone could deliberately temporarily impair said vinyl record, by deliberately fouling it up, however I cannot think of a way of doing that temporarily that would not cause lasting harm to the stylis needle or the record itself (eg blutack or sellotape would be no-noes !). But this is certainly an interesting technology and the new decoder unit certainly looks neatly made inside. (Asteriskal insertion follows... it is my understanding there have been a number of cases over the years, some involving many millions of dollars worth of technology and government contracts (for "explosive sniffers'), where for several years, nobody EVER, not even once, did an independent test and evaluation of the equipment, they simply took the manufacturer's word that it worked as stated in the adverts ! Note I am NOT saying that is happening in this case ! Just that wolvenar made a good point.
I love vinyl video - there's just something about it that makes it better than digital video we have these days.
You keep finding the outer edge of the envelope. I would say a run of 10 units has to be about as niche as it gets while not being a prototype.
its ironic that records have been flat-lining for 15 years up until 2008 now theyre making a comeback which is nice to see that happen
I am slowly warming up to enjoy your English humour as well. An excellent video as always.
A very slippery slope my friend. Next thing you'll be downloading classic BBC comedy from the 70s.
Holger Czukay!!! Perfect music for this format.
Great, great job as always. Superbly scripted, produced, and edited. Truly great work. I never knew something like this existed.
For love of everything cool and hipster, someone NEEDs to get Macintosh Plus on one of these video records.
Yes!
They do custom presses, although they are pricey
Thank you for pulling the box apart. I was sitting on the edge of my chair screaming "OPEN IT!" at the screen :)
LOL at the RUclips auto-generated subtitles at 5:19
"I'm going to start off by connecting this up to a CR C and I'm going to use my trusty Sony ps9"
😆
Well, he does have a time machine...
PS9... there was a fake ad for that thingy during the PS2 era.
*_BY SONY THEMSELVES,_* no less...
@@NormanRDolan I remember that. It was some kind of virtual reality orb thingy.
This is one of the best channels, informative, well edited, no misleading titles plus you put a lot of time into this (not to mention the money). Great job
This has tremendous appeal as video art. I've been a fan of Gebhard Sengmüller, one of the developers, ever since I discovered his 'Parallel Image' art installation. This explores an alternate, very early method of television (unlike Baird's) in which an array of light sensors and corresponding light bulbs are wired directly together. Lots of wires!
This is, to say the least, incredibly special.
\m/ Motörhead!
RIP.
That was awesome 😀
Rip Lenny
\m/ 😢 \m/
\m/ Rock on brother!!!
@@ReinventingTheSteve whether it's in heaven or hell, Lemmy is partying with Philthy Animal and the Ramones atm. Only difference is, if they're in hell the musics probably better.
glad I'm not a collector any more this would break my bank
I love it when subscribtions shows no new videos, but home suggest I might want to watch my favorite channel's brand new video...
Aaaaaah, ouch, that CRT flyback whine. Always amazed how well that comes through RUclips and out of a phone! :D
Yeah its funny I can never hear it in real life and I'm somewhat of a CRT enthusiast...so this is what people can hear?
Must be nice to.be young and have fresh ears.
I didn't know it was actually the flyback transformer that made the noise, always thought it was the tube.
These days whenever someone cuts one of those on it takes me forever to get use to it. I used to never notice it. I'm 28 and hear that squeal very loudly since not being around it in so long.
Ahh grow up ya sissy, and stop your yapping!!
Thank you Mat, for providing me with hours and hours of amazing content. Not only is every video extremely entertaining, but the production quality is superb. And what makes your videos so enjoyable for me is the excellent narration and your sense of humor, which is very subtle and always cheers me up.
isn't this similar technology used on those gold discs on the Voyager Space craft??
those gold discs should be reissued on this format i reckon
A huge, Massive thank you for your ongoing commitment to providing these excellent videos. Your care, attention, technical accuracy, modesty and the quality of the videos, narration, lighting and audio are all second-to-none. Possibly dusting could do with some work ;) Both me and my 10 year old son think you are, frankly, bloomin' awesome, and RUclips is not a place of many thank-yous.
There are relatively many people who have equipment that works with the 12,5fps 30 line Baird or 32 line NBTVA (Narrow Bandwidth Television Association) standards.
I wonder why they didn't go for those standards. Quality of the NBTVA material is quite a bit better than this. But maybe the existing standards won't hold up to recording it on vinyl.
This is the very definition of a passion project! Beautifully executed, but with no point except to exist as an amusing curiosity. A drunken conversation with friends, made manifest.
I really could have watched the skeletons for a bit longer.
Awesome band ! the Courettes ruclips.net/video/l5C9ITtHKto/видео.html
Wow! I live in Vienna and didn't know about Supersense. Going to a concert there tonight. Thanks!
They should use a 12" record and play it at 45 rpm where the higher linear velocity of the needle would give better quality on the outside - or even 78 rpm!
Every time I hear "78rpm" it takes me back to the one 78rpm record my Mum had. The Happy Wanderer on one side and "Polly Wally Doodle" on the other.
GREAT video! I'm a tech geek, and this video worked out great for me.
What I thought straight away when after he played the A/V on the TV -
"What does it sound like if you just play the audio on that?" Check, he did it.
Then I wondered how the video was encoded into the record, and what the spectrum looked like. Check, he did it.
Then I wondered what was inside the unit. Check, he did it.
Also things like seeing what was on the SD card, and trying different phonographs and TVs. I was very satisfied. :D
That was so cool. Thanks mate.
I love your channel. That’s a format I’d never heard of.
Did anyone else see those marionette puppets in the video and think about TechMoan's "silly and unfunny" puppets?
Didn't make the connection.
That’s incredible that you could get video from a record!
The future of home video has come!!!! Bluray? DEAD!!!! THE FUTURE IS NOW!!!!
Also, I had no idea you could even fit video of any description onto a 45 at all. That's really cool! I wonder how much time they could fit onto an LP...
this is the perfect format for analogue horror
And for once I feel like my first generation Betamax produces an absolutely acceptable picture
Well the Beta should be better than a VHS, but that's not saying much.
@@video99couk that's just wrong.
You can't say Beta is better at image quality than VHS.
In the early days this might have been true but as VHS established itself it was improved so much.
If I look at a regular VHS recording on one of my high end machines (like the Panasonic NV-FS200 and the NV-HS1000) it looks like HD compared to early Beta.
I was talking about my first generation machine.
I have never seen SuperBeta or ED-Beta. So I can't say anything about that.
Of a given vintage, comparing like with like, Beta (certainly PAL Beta) has higher luma and chroma resolution and lower noise than VHS. Compare a Sony SL-C30 to a Panasonic NV-333. I have had both an FS200 and HS1000, they are certainly fine machines.
@@video99couk Sure, I never said otherwise.
I just wanted to state that you cannot say VHS < Beta. This is too unspecified.
Seriously man, do NOT stop making videos. I love your channel. Great stuff 👍🏻
I would imagine playing a copy of the vinyl from cassette would also work?
Rob Bennett I’m now curious about this as well.
Fisher price PXL-2000 :)
Fivos Sakellis - Not quite the same. The PXL2000 ran the tape at about double speed to get better bandwidth. I suspect, however, this would work on a normal cassette tape with the low resolution and frame rate.
I think the PXL ran rather more than double speed - closer to 5 times. It didn't even fit a full ten minutes on a C90. And it used the full width of the tape, so no turning over to get additional recording on the other side. Basically it used the audio cassette as a low quality, linear scan form of VHS, and IIRC it didn't drop the framerate or vertical rez, just the horizontal, so it would have had to keep the same scan/sync structure etc, requiring a lot more bandwidth than the VV probably does (as it reduces resolution both ways AND reduces framerate).
TM demonstrated in a follow-up video to this that you can copy the audio onto cassette and successfully play it back... for a small value of success. A recognisable image came out, but it looked far worse than even the original. The blurb bangs on about pushing the limits of what can be stored on Vinyl ... for a 7" at 45rpm, that's probably bandwidth somewhere in the 30 to 50kHz range, if you heavily emphasise the ultrasonic treble range and go for resolution at the expense of noise (as you're pulling the sharpest details out of the signal very close to the noise floor, far closer than audio would normally allow and only getting away with it because the eye is far more forgiving of noise than the ear, whilst the reserve is true for all-out resolution). Copy that to a cassette and you pretty much instantly lose at least half if not two thirds of the headroom, and thus the horizontal resolution. It also seemed to have a lot of the picture disappear into noise, which is as you'd expect given the higher noise floor of even the best cassettes vs typical vinyl.
Good lord, the image in the first minute scared me half to death. Definitely for watching when you're recovering from a fever
Wow, VinylVideo was real? I emailed them 10 years ago and never received a reply so I assumed the old website was an art project or the company had folded.
The original was, and the original artist probably stopped paying any attention to that inbox. 2008 would have put you in-between the retirement of the original exhibit, and its more recent revival by a mostly unrelated group of art-terrorist (but entirely commercially minded) hipsters.
You’re like a tech consumed Bob ross
Listening to you speak at length is soothing and informatively fun
While the people on 4k are probably wondering why they bothered for this video, those on crappy internet and 144p postage stamp video are probably thinking it looks no different to normal
Fun watch as always. Love the oddball ways people find to cram video onto things.
That’s still better resolution than any Bigfoot or UFO sighting
This will polish Austria‘s image, after the EEVblog Fontus video.
When I heard that the Innovator was an "Kunststudent" (Art Student) I was like "My goodness, this thing will look nice and fancy, but is so far away from a real working thing as I am from be the King of England".
300.000 dollars for a simple "fancy pancy looking" dehumidifier. Job well done I would say :D
We normal people are very judgmental toward Austria because of some crazy wannabe "inventor" and his obscure "invention." We should write the petition to US Senate and try to ban Austria from existence. I think that is very reasonable. Playing VinylVideo card to rescue Austria from its doom is utterly pointless.
Some of the worst people ever are Austrian artists.
Doxxius Yeah, we totally should do that...wait, I live in Austria.
Austrians also invented the shipscrew without even be connected to the seas, the typewriter and thousands good things more, and even bad things i wanna talk about. At least we try and have a well trained culture of failure... pls love us, or at least respect us. Im Austrian and kind of inventor too...
Keep reviewing strange or unusual tech please. This is why I enjoy your channel.
Love your channel. As Miles Davis was a great musical explorer you are the king of device exploration!
I can never get tired of watching your videos. Very interesting and informative. Keep up the good work!
Psh.. you could do this with a Raspberry Pi. :-D
For real, it's very cool to see a Raspberry Pi in one of these. I'd like to see more oddball tech down the line that uses them in weird ways
I was scrolling through the comments looking to see who would say it!
Actually probably a justifiable use of the inherent power, too, other than for an emulator box. There's so many Pi projects that you can essentially implement with a much simpler microcontroller... or a 555 and a couple of additional flip-flops.... or a simple switch and a latch... whereas this at least involves some kind of signal processing (...after the point where the signal is digitised and presented via USB, anyway)
Very cool to see VinylVideo. I remember seeing it back in the 90's and thinking it was a fun art experiment. Thanks for showing it off!
There's a bit of very high frequency noise coming from the CRT monitor from around 7:37 and again (but louder) at 8:10 & 8:31. Just thought I'd let you know since I think I remember you talking about this in another video. Now to finish!
My ears are ringing due to this I can't finish watching this video with my headphones, it's unbearable =x
Don't worry, if you get to my age you won't be able to hear it - and you'll wish you still had that hearing range. So enjoy the whine while you can.
24 and it doesn't bother me, even when I use my 36" crt but I can still hear it.
I think it might've been Tom Scott's video that you're thinking of. ruclips.net/video/RA5UiLYWdbM/видео.html
Sadly I'm not able to finish watching this video due to the whine.
Oh boy, do I get my cane and get to talk about in my time this was everywhere and we were made of sterner stuff that coil whine wasn't that big a deal, that the youth of the day is so soft and spoiled that a little sound scares them off?
We weren't scared of a little high pitch noise, we were scared of getting annihilated in a nuclear fireball. But please, tell me how the thing that was in every room with a tv is "unbearable"
Someone tell Jack White
Thanks for sending me out on an internet rabbit hole... I'm at 6:21 and that box from Holger Czukay, and I just decided to read more on him and one of my favorite bands, Can (he was a founding member). GREAT STUFF! (I'd never heard of that boxset, so that's why I went down the hole!)
How do we know that the videos aren't already just stored on the SD card and the vinyl records do nothing?
Because a/ they'd have to do SOMETHING to provoke the content to be loaded from the SD card, b/ the latency is far too good for a typical digital video system on cheap hardware, c/ it would be about as much work to set up a timecoded vinyl system (which itself has a very characteristic visual appearance - and usually comes on 12") that could accurately detect and decode the codes as to just build a decoder for the actual video, and an encoder to produce high-frequency files to master the discs from, d/ why are there snatches of audio between the video sync areas? e/ it would be ludicrously easy for someone to scope the card filesystem and prove they were bullshitting, including ejecting the card once the system was loaded (it almost certainly won't need to make any further filesystem accesses, and an RPi's RAM is nowhere near large enough to store the necessary video data without reference to flash storage) and showing that it's suddenly unable to decode the video. f/ it would also be ludicrously easy to make a proper analysis of the audio content, if you were actually bothered and knew what you were doing, and prove whether or not there was anything there at all other than some timecode information (which would itself be pretty obvious, as it binary-codes a wholly unique high-bit-count number several dozen times per second, producing an easily demonstrated and decoded variation in either frequency and/or amplitude; plain sync pulses are absolutely regular with no variation in frequency or amplitude).
A, B and C suggest it would be about as much work to produce the supposed "fake" system (which has been shown to be capable of instantly responding to changes in playback speed as well as switching between multiple sources, dealing with artificially engineered loops, _as well as_ instantly changing the video brightness in response to changes in the incoming waveform amplitude _and_ showing a somewhat corrupted image in response to playback from tape, in a way that looks like a video filter rather than simply losing track of the timecode) as to simply make the real thing.
E and F mean that you'd be taking a hell of a risk trying such a blag and then releasing it to a somewhat obviously nerdy public, who would be curious to figure out how the thing works. Any attempt at actual subterfuge would be ripped to shreds, in minutes, with pretty basic gear. The techniques you'd have to employ to pull off each trick are somewhat different from each other, and are only fleetingly similar to untrained eyes (who, however, have _just enough_ training to be dangerous). Actual audio timecode, when you examine it even passingly, is well different from TV sync. It has to be, in order to actually work. And TV sync can't be anything like timecode, otherwise it won't work either. If you're going to start doing some other more complex encoding scheme, well... you're putting complicated encoding on vinyl, and decoding it with a Raspberry Pi already. Why not just slap analogue video on there and have done with it? A script for producing a suitable audio stream from an input video file would be an afternoon's work, with AviSynth and other such tools (and maybe upgrading from Audacity to Adobe Audition, nee CoolEdit, which had built-in scripting functions that could do half the job all by itself). You're already going to have to find someone who can press vinyl from a digital file, so that part is already a given. All you've then got to do is build the decoder, which is simpler than constructing the AI-ish system needed to respond to all the potential weirdnesses of the input audio and apply filters or jump around the flash-stored streams with less-than-MPEG latency.
D is an oddity, if you're using timecode. Why bother with it? As a red herring to the casual analyst? Maybe the system is only capable of showing a stream of images in response to the timecode and still needs the audio supplied? But, if you've got the code to sample, isolate, re-stitch and re-time the analogue audio, you can totally do exactly the same with a monochrome video signal, it's not rocket science, it's just a greater amount of data. And it would be simple enough to at least test whether it's a red herring - take a completely different piece of audio, stitch it in place in a sampled piece of VV sound, and play that into the machine, see if the output changes. Similarly, in fact, you can fairly easily test if it's actually timecode without even bothering to try and analyse it - just sample it at a frequency that preserves the sync pulses pretty much unchanged, but massively reduces the overall bandwidth of the file. Say, cut it down to 8kHz instead of 96kHz. If it's just reading timecode from the stream, it should play back exactly the same, as that should be enough to preserve a short sync pulse once per ~1/650th second line and whatever infomation it may encode. Or it'll fail to play at all, or play random frames from all the different videos, if that's enough to corrupt the timecode. But if it's actually pulling video data from there, it should be unrecognisably blurry, as the horizontal resolution will have been massively reduced from its already low level (and to far below even what audio cassette offers). Unless of course we then jam our tinfoil hats firmly onto our heads and assume that the people making this thing have gone to the trouble of installing a filter driver to their input processing chain that can _detect whether the user has deliberately futzed about with the original signal in all different kinds of ways_ and applies special effects to the stored video accordingly.
More simply: run it through a graphical EQ, or even something that offers simple Bass and Treble controls. Jack the treble, see if the image suddenly looks oversharpened. Attenuate it, see if it becomes soft. Do similar for the bass and see if the image suffers variously from bloom or a lack of contrast. If they went to the trouble of installing filters that can not only apply those filters, but detect them in the first place (which is starting to get into the realms of AI), their priorities really ARE fucked.
Bear in mind, by the way, that the original version of this was first shown off in _1998,_ - twenty years ago, before the age of high powered AV-capable SBCs and, moreover, high capacity, high speed flash cards - and exhibition visitors, whilst unlikely to be able to pull the thing apart or take samples of the audio for later analysis, were invited to get up close and personal and play with it. If the small decoder box had a hard drive full of video in it, and the then-high-end computing hardware to deal with it, that probably would have been rather obvious. The necessary electronics to do the "real" job, however, so long as you had sufficiently high quality vinyl and playback gear, would have been small, cheap, and low power even at the time. These days you could do it with a DSP and a microcontroller (and a very low capacity SRAM chip).
My girlfriend moved to germany today and me and my best friend of 6 years got into a really bad fight today so I am now finding solace in your videos so thank you
We've come a long way since then. Good to remember the next time you pop in a bluray.