As a shaper with 35 years of high end production , your finished product is excellent . We started adding cheap plywood glass-on keels to some little "simmons" and "fishy" boards and the use of plywood is very underrated . Keep up the great work mate.
Hi Dave. Thanks. I have an update under vimeo.com/514415002 There I explain a much better laminating process and I go in better detail about double sided profiled fins (Such as SUP fins and center fins on surfboards).
This fundamental, if basic, explanation of the load at the fin base offers good reasoning for the advantages of Futures fins over FCS fins. In FCS fins all the load is being directed into the 2 isolated mounting points . In the Futures fin, load is dissipated over the length of the entire fin box, a better solution.
Yes, Future have a longer base and are also slightly thicker. This does not have a significant impact for DIY fins. It only changes the shape of the base. I do not find FCS ideal either. That's why I always mount three plugs per fin on my boards and have three mounting points per fin accordingly (except for fins with a very short base). In my opinion, a mini turtle box for surfboards would be a good solution. But then you have one more exotic variant, even more fins....
@@rickden8362 When I made my first surfboard, I used windsurf fin boxes that I milled shorter, so basically a very short US fin box. At that time fixed mounted fins were standard. It wasn't until years later that the FCS system came on the market. I never really liked this system. I distrusted especially the small fixing screw in the plastic. That's why I first made the plugs by myself. I made them from carbon fiber, with a stainless steel thread for the fixing screw. That was still in the last century. The reason for all this effort was because the FCS fins spread very quickly all over the world. Since I traveled a lot and surfed in remote places, I wanted to use the most common system in my boards. I built my boards sturdy, so they were correspondingly durable. I didn't want several different systems on my boards because that would have meant more baggage again for various fins. The Future System was also much slower to spread and came to my knowledge later on the market. Today I would prefer Future to the new FCS system. To build fins yourself the shape of the base does not make much difference. First the fin, then the base shape, as needed....
@@robiegle I see now. I've always wondered why the FCS system, which, IMO, I consider inferior to the Futures, is so popular. As an aside, a fin box almost identical to the Futures was patented in 1983 but the inventor was terrible at marketing plus he had no matching fins and it went nowhere. Cheers.
Great idea. Kind of like vacuum bagging but without the vacuum. What did you use between the foam and the cloth to prevent the resin from adhering to the foam?
Hi, in the following videos about fins I put on youtube, I explained this better. You are right, it is like vacuum bagging, but with simple tools. I vacuum my surfboards, but for the fins I was looking for an alternative way, with tools, that are available for everybody. Check my fin videos under "robiegle". There I show that I use a PE plastic (could be from a transparent plastic bag), with holes poked through (diy with a needle) on the resin side and then a cotton layer (could be from a t-shirt) and then a PE layer again, this time no holes in it and then the soft foam and the block.
This is really excellent ! Thankyou. I make my own nice tiimber and or Virch Birch Ply fins. I don't even bother with making them movable because, take it or leave it I hate all those expensive fin systems. All I need to know when I'm out there riding my surfboard on my own is my feeling of reassurance that my fin IS NOT going to move around in some kind of stupid fin box. Like it did once when I was out at North Point. Hey ! - NEVER AGAIN ! Ever since that day I've glassed my fin into my board like I used to do in the late 1960's. THAT'S THE BEST WAY. so
Hi Dave. I agree, that the fin boxes and the fins to fit them, are very expensive! A good reason to make it yourself. You had bad experiences with movable fins, that's unfortunate. Fix fins of course are a way to deal with it. If You want to color up Your wood fins, have a look at this video: ruclips.net/video/JN-4zkXMjZY/видео.html
Dave Simmons Blaming fin boxes because you were too menially lazy to check the fins is just intellectual lazy. Not that there's anything wrong with glass-ons, as long as you never want to experiment with other fins or want to take the chance of broken fins when traveling.
After laminating, I sand the surface up to grit P220, starting at P120. Before, when building the lamination, I make sure I use a light glass (170g/m2 (6oz)) as top layer on the outside. This gives a finer surface, less sanding and a stronger fin, because less ruptured fibers. Then I spraypaint the 2K lacquer (No top coating). However, this requires at least two coats of lacquer. For intermediate sanding I like to use hard wooden sanding blocks (Flat or slightly curved, depending on the shape of the fin.). I stick carpet tape on the blocks and cover them with P220 sandpaper.
Thanks for posting this. In some fins there is 'cant' - a slight angle between the fin and the pegs which when mounted to the board causes the fin to angle away from perpendicular slightly. Any ideas on how you might achieve this with some adaptations using your basic procedure for wood cored fins? Thanks.
Hi Scott Thanks for the question. I have not tried it out yet. I'm sure it is possible, if You sand the inside of the peg section (that will fit into the plugs) in the angle of Your canting before laminating the finished wood core. You will have to use a bottom press form with a kick at the peg section (probably a thin wedge out of soft sponge under the separation foil will to the job as well). The profiled top side of the fin I would leave as it is for laminating. The fibers will go straight, but that's O.k. I would fill the peg higher and sand it down in the right angle (parallel to the flat side). We are not talking about much material to take down, so I think this is not a big deal. I looked at foam core fins from China with canting before. They didn't care about fiber orientation. They simply mill-cut the canting through all the fibers. Obviously they can sell the shit… (but I would not try it). My next thing is to make bent side fins. There will be no canting, but they will bend outwards (like fins with canting), to get a better "grip" at the deepest point in the water when leaning into the turn. This is more or less a similar effect. Of course they will also cause more lift in the face of steeper waves, which might be a disadvantage. Fun to try anyways!
Sounds good and interesting idea of the curved fins. Regarding your process - do you find the mattress foam works ok , or would you recommend a slightly denser foam?
Hi Scott. The foam I used was soft, like a mattress foam. It worked very well. Unfortunately I have no density number, or any other specification. Soft foam will lay better around the profile.
Hi Scott. In this video ruclips.net/video/JN-4zkXMjZY/видео.html You can see the type of foam that works better. I just laminated the two bent side fins. They are not finished yet.....
The wooden core is already quite impregnated with Epoxy through the presure applied with the clamps. Like this the wood does not take water, as far as I can tell. At the end, I laquer the fin all around.
Hi Neil When I lacquer the fin in the end, I cover the top of the base with lacquer too (only the the side surfaces that fit into the plugs, I cover up). It seems, that the veneer sucks the resin all the way through, so it is impregnated, kind of like the fibers of glass or paper or what ever fabric that has capillaries.
It means the weight of the glass fiber per square meter. Heavier glass is thicker than lighter glass. Because of this, the layers build up differently around the wood core. A layer of 390 grams per square meter is about double as thick as the 165 grams per square meter layer.
The producer of the glass is usually telling You the weight of the glass. It is either measured in ounces or in grams, usually both (1 gram is 0.035274 ounce). If You don't know the material of the fin (could be Lexan, GFK, etc.), it is difficult to give an advice. Personally I would not try to enforce a fin, except if it is fix glassed on to my surfboard. There I would use either Polyester or Epoxy resin, depending on what my surfboard is made out of.
As a shaper with 35 years of high end production , your finished product is excellent . We started adding cheap plywood glass-on keels to some little "simmons" and "fishy" boards and the use of plywood is very underrated . Keep up the great work mate.
Dude this is such a great explanation! Thank you!
Hi Dave. Thanks. I have an update under vimeo.com/514415002
There I explain a much better laminating process and I go in better detail about double sided profiled fins (Such as SUP fins and center fins on surfboards).
This fundamental, if basic, explanation of the load at the fin base offers good reasoning for the advantages of Futures fins over FCS fins. In FCS fins all the load is being directed into the 2 isolated mounting points . In the Futures fin, load is dissipated over the length of the entire fin box, a better solution.
Yes, Future have a longer base and are also slightly thicker. This does not have a significant impact for DIY fins. It only changes the shape of the base. I do not find FCS ideal either. That's why I always mount three plugs per fin on my boards and have three mounting points per fin accordingly (except for fins with a very short base). In my opinion, a mini turtle box for surfboards would be a good solution. But then you have one more exotic variant, even more fins....
@@robiegle Are you saying you use the FCS variation because it's easier in a DIY application.
@@rickden8362 When I made my first surfboard, I used windsurf fin boxes that I milled shorter, so basically a very short US fin box. At that time fixed mounted fins were standard. It wasn't until years later that the FCS system came on the market. I never really liked this system. I distrusted especially the small fixing screw in the plastic. That's why I first made the plugs by myself. I made them from carbon fiber, with a stainless steel thread for the fixing screw. That was still in the last century. The reason for all this effort was because the FCS fins spread very quickly all over the world. Since I traveled a lot and surfed in remote places, I wanted to use the most common system in my boards. I built my boards sturdy, so they were correspondingly durable. I didn't want several different systems on my boards because that would have meant more baggage again for various fins. The Future System was also much slower to spread and came to my knowledge later on the market. Today I would prefer Future to the new FCS system. To build fins yourself the shape of the base does not make much difference. First the fin, then the base shape, as needed....
@@robiegle I see now. I've always wondered why the FCS system, which, IMO, I consider inferior to the Futures, is so popular. As an aside, a fin box almost identical to the Futures was patented in 1983 but the inventor was terrible at marketing plus he had no matching fins and it went nowhere. Cheers.
Great idea. Kind of like vacuum bagging but without the vacuum. What did you use between the foam and the cloth to prevent the resin from adhering to the foam?
Hi, in the following videos about fins I put on youtube, I explained this better. You are right, it is like vacuum bagging, but with simple tools. I vacuum my surfboards, but for the fins I was looking for an alternative way, with tools, that are available for everybody. Check my fin videos under "robiegle". There I show that I use a PE plastic (could be from a transparent plastic bag), with holes poked through (diy with a needle) on the resin side and then a cotton layer (could be from a t-shirt) and then a PE layer again, this time no holes in it and then the soft foam and the block.
Nice Video, thanks
Thanks for the video!
This is really excellent ! Thankyou. I make my own nice tiimber and or Virch
Birch Ply fins. I don't even bother with making them movable because, take it or leave it I hate all those expensive fin systems.
All I need to know when I'm out there riding my surfboard on my own is my feeling of reassurance that my fin IS NOT going to move around in some kind of stupid fin box. Like it did once when I was out at North Point. Hey ! - NEVER AGAIN ! Ever since that day I've glassed my fin into my board like I used to do in the late 1960's. THAT'S THE BEST WAY.
so
Hi Dave. I agree, that the fin boxes and the fins to fit them, are very expensive! A good reason to make it yourself. You had bad experiences with movable fins, that's unfortunate. Fix fins of course are a way to deal with it. If You want to color up Your wood fins, have a look at this video: ruclips.net/video/JN-4zkXMjZY/видео.html
Dave Simmons Blaming fin boxes because you were too menially lazy to check the fins is just intellectual lazy. Not that there's anything wrong with glass-ons, as long as you never want to experiment with other fins or want to take the chance of broken fins when traveling.
After laminating do you hot coat the fins or put on a lacquer.
After laminating, I sand the surface up to grit P220, starting at P120. Before, when building the lamination, I make sure I use a light glass (170g/m2 (6oz)) as top layer on the outside. This gives a finer surface, less sanding and a stronger fin, because less ruptured fibers. Then I spraypaint the 2K lacquer (No top coating). However, this requires at least two coats of lacquer. For intermediate sanding I like to use hard wooden sanding blocks (Flat or slightly curved, depending on the shape of the fin.). I stick carpet tape on the blocks and cover them with P220 sandpaper.
Thanks for posting this. In some fins there is 'cant' - a slight angle between the fin and the pegs which when mounted to the board causes the fin to angle away from perpendicular slightly. Any ideas on how you might achieve this with some adaptations using your basic procedure for wood cored fins? Thanks.
Hi Scott Thanks for the question. I have not tried it out yet. I'm sure it is possible, if You sand the inside of the peg section (that will fit into the plugs) in the angle of Your canting before laminating the finished wood core. You will have to use a bottom press form with a kick at the peg section (probably a thin wedge out of soft sponge under the separation foil will to the job as well). The profiled top side of the fin I would leave as it is for laminating. The fibers will go straight, but that's O.k. I would fill the peg higher and sand it down in the right angle (parallel to the flat side). We are not talking about much material to take down, so I think this is not a big deal. I looked at foam core fins from China with canting before. They didn't care about fiber orientation. They simply mill-cut the canting through all the fibers. Obviously they can sell the shit… (but I would not try it). My next thing is to make bent side fins. There will be no canting, but they will bend outwards (like fins with canting), to get a better "grip" at the deepest point in the water when leaning into the turn. This is more or less a similar effect. Of course they will also cause more lift in the face of steeper waves, which might be a disadvantage. Fun to try anyways!
Sounds good and interesting idea of the curved fins. Regarding your process - do you find the mattress foam works ok , or would you recommend a slightly denser foam?
Hi Scott. The foam I used was soft, like a mattress foam. It worked very well. Unfortunately I have no density number, or any other specification. Soft foam will lay better around the profile.
Hi Scott. In this video ruclips.net/video/JN-4zkXMjZY/видео.html You can see the type of foam that works better. I just laminated the two bent side fins. They are not finished yet.....
Thanks again.
Great video thanks for sharing !!!
pressure
Start selling them and you’ll make a killing! Even just the three plug modified boards grab attention.
How you covering the exposed wood when you cut the plugs?
The wooden core is already quite impregnated with Epoxy through the presure applied with the clamps. Like this the wood does not take water, as far as I can tell. At the end, I laquer the fin all around.
Hi Neil
When I lacquer the fin in the end, I cover the top of the base with lacquer too (only the the side surfaces that fit into the plugs, I cover up). It seems, that the veneer sucks the resin all the way through, so it is impregnated, kind of like the fibers of glass or paper or what ever fabric that has capillaries.
robiegle gfg
what it means glass 165g and glass 390g?
It means the weight of the glass fiber per square meter. Heavier glass is thicker than lighter glass. Because of this, the layers build up differently around the wood core. A layer of 390 grams per square meter is about double as thick as the 165 grams per square meter layer.
how you measure the weight of glass? how to apply it on the fins? I have plastic fin. I want to make it more strong. so what I need to do?
The producer of the glass is usually telling You the weight of the glass. It is either measured in ounces or in grams, usually both (1 gram is 0.035274 ounce).
If You don't know the material of the fin (could be Lexan, GFK, etc.), it is difficult to give an advice. Personally I would not try to enforce a fin, except if it is fix glassed on to my surfboard. There I would use either Polyester or Epoxy resin, depending on what my surfboard is made out of.
Perhaps I’m wrong; I’m just curious - Are you originally from Styria?
No. I'm from Switzerland. But someone once told me, I have an accent like Arnold Schwarzenegger....
robiegle yeah, I hear similar vowel sounds.
Anyway, thanks for the great videos.