my favorite quote pertaining to this topic is this: "I thought that using loops was cheating, so I programmed my own using samples. I then thought using samples was cheating, so I recorded real drums. I then thought that programming it was cheating, so I learned to play drums for real. I then thought using bought drums was cheating, so I learned to make my own. I then thought using premade skins was cheating, so I killed a goat and skinned it. I then thought that was cheating too, so I grew my own goat from a baby goat. I also think that is cheating, but I'm not sure where to go from here. I haven't made any music lately, what with the goat farming and all."
Guitarist don't make guitars yet with their effort and talent they play it and make something beautiful. And that is not same as downloading Guitar loop.So your comment is shit basically
@@MrXamanX You missed the point of the quote. The point is that worrying about being "wholly original" with your music can lead to not making any music at all.
@@mjrisinsd6836 I feel like her #1 selling point is perfect skin, symmetrical face, her audacity- singing skills are not near the top but as we know, it hasn't been about that for a long time now! Any church or community college will have a better singer.
@ yeah, but that is a big part of it as well. Performance is more than technical mastery. Virtuosos overlook so much, but you generally can’t get through to them. Pop music is not complicated.
It's not about any of that in big name normie pop, as long as you have half decent songwriting and good production with a marketing team who can bring your otherwise mediocre music to a wider audience you'll succeed. That's the problem with a lot of music in the modern day, it stems directly from big music corporations' need to make more money through creating more well known artists. No real artistic merit or soul to it, just board room style decisions.
There's so much that goes on behind the scenes in the music industry that this topic really is always going to be a very niche thing that only diehard producers care about. At the end of the day its a music business & a very very very slim minority of listeners care how you got to the end product. I've seen newer producers without a deep bag of skills to pull from get lucky with drag & dropping splice samples & get songs. There's nothing wrong with it imo bc at the end of the day the producers who do have a deep bag and enjoy the process and the art of sampling or making melodies or helping put songs together will stick around for much longer than the producer who uses Splice as a major crutch for what they aren't good at. A lot of the game is about curation & good taste. Good news is typically the people with a FULL skillset as a producer (makes good melodies, knows how to chop anything in front of them, yammin drums, great arrangements, good songwriting, good curation) will outlast those who some of you may feel like "got lucky" & "isn't a real producer". What I've noticed is that every genuinely great and talented producer I've met & worked with does not give a fk if you use Splice or not because they are worried about bigger & more important things like making a record that people can have life experiences with. I know many producers who can create symphonies out of thin air from scratch, and they still use Splice from time to time bc it can provide good utility & they don't have egos. It's rare you see a producer in the industry stick around for a long time without providing any value or have 0 production skills so to me it's a self-regulating issue given a long enough time span. When you zoom out you realize that no matter how much elitist care about this topic, the listeners who you are making the music for just simply don't & I'll never expect them to.
The big names don't tell you what they use behind closed doors, ask me how I know. Most would prefer you use serum and the latest weak packs for everything as their stuff will stand out. Splice (loops) is great for starting out and to hack the process but eventually you have to be creative because the big guys are and DO NOT tell you what they're actually using. BUUUT, Splice is an infinite source of quality individually recorded single hit samples that can save a lot of time and effort that can be spent trying to record at the highest level .Look at what people go through to record their own sounds from keyboards, instruments etc..Insider knowledge spoiler here: samples are still king and always will be. The emulation vs samples debate is not real, it's for the "little guys". Dr. Dre's quote about sound sourcing is still as valid today as it ever was.
If sampling other peoples music wasn't a thing, there would be no house, or hip hop music. The Dance floor would be empty. Thank fuck for sampling and loops.
If you want to have a conversation about the commercialization of art go talk to a label executive. People are just trying to make cool shit. Idrc if you recorded raindrops or cut and pasted whole loops. If it's good, it's good.
Is it? I feel like as an artist (literal drawing) this reminds of other artists not liking Greg Land. Greg Land is a comic book artist who is extremely well known for his rampant tracing, and yet he gets mainstream recognition. One of the biggest parts about art is the effort you put into it, and if you're putting minimal effort, never have to learn any skills, and make the same money as someone who is putting their soul into it and trained for years, it's completely fair for people to call you out.
@What makes it unfair? The method he uses to create his art or the mainstream recognition he gets for it? Since when did years of hard work and learning a skill make someone entitled to define whats fair? Esp in a subjective field like art? and then on top of that how do you determine that someone didn’t work hard at their craft for years before enhancing their workflow with the use of premade samples? Does mainstream recognition determine the value of your art? and to repeat art is subjective, so one of the biggest parts for you may the effort but for someone else the ends may justify the means. The result is whats judged and valued by those who consume it. I can’t for the life of me harbor any distaste for someone receiving recognition for the end product they created regardless of the materials they used to create it or steps they skipped to get there. The tradeoff is I have that same freedom to create whatever I like using whatever I like. If the cost of that is a few random people making bangers with splice samples and nothing else so be it. Final point, if your work is good it’ll speak for itself and stand the test of time. Theres a stark difference in career outcome over-time between someone who got lucky with samples or AI vs someone who’s actually good at what they do. That’s natural selection, no hate from me required.
choosing the samples is the talent, i think the more you do to manipulate the samples into something that fits vocals, the more likely a good song will come of it, if you really take pride in producing, you will probably want to do it from scratch, if you just want the best end product, use whatever.
@@beatsbyjune i think it really depends on the song/sample, sometimes additional manipulation to a sample is unnecessary and the song works better if its just looped as is
@ exactly. I think I try to manipulate things the slightest to decrease likelihood of content Id issues. But I agree. I think if you like the sample use it. But throwing a drum loop on a melody and calling it a day isn’t going to have the composition of a hit. Nice video though. I was just listening to a Tyler interview, where he talked about forgetting about making money, and just to focus on loving the art. It’s hard when you want to make money, but need to focus on the art. Keep it up bro, subbed
@@beatsbyjune finding samples is a talent you have to reconise musical value into something or at least the potential of it. Choosing sample that have been already organized and selected for us is not.
The main difference between using a Splice loop (or any other company's pre-made loops) vs sampling from vinyl or cassettes etc. is that the Splice loops are already a perfect loop and perfectly in tune. You can easily search for what you want and it will pop right up without much work. Yes you still have to "dig" I guess... but with vinyl, you have to really find the samples yourself (and have a good ear / taste for what is dope), make sure they are in tune, chop, quantize & timestretch to stay on tempo since a lot of old songs don't have a consistent bpm. More skills, care and creativity is needed for the "old school" way in my opinion. With all of that being said, I feel anyway you do it is still producing. Using pre-made loops is just the newer way of doing it and I respect it fully. I love to do it all. I make my own music and original samples from scratch, chop samples from vinyl and cassettes, and use pre-made melodies from time to time.
crazy thing is you don’t even have to dig actual vinyls if ur broke like most of us. RUclips to wav is all you need. Now you’re actually searching for music you like online and then actually chopping it up and making something. I had someone ask me where I got my samples and they were actually in awe when I said “from music I like” made me a lil sad but it’s aight different strokes
I literally only extract midi from obscure Mediterranean commercials and flip it. Than I contact the library of congress and start buying up as many patents as possible. And than I bury my intellectual opposition with dope ass diss tracks that they wrote.
@sleepfieldro Lol but all jokes aside brother this was a very insightful video, and a rather refreshing take on an issue that most people seem to be toxic about, rather than opening a dialouge like this
I personally love when producers make dope beats with samples because it sort of pays homage to the old school. I for one have never Been one to sample many things I was always the type to make beats from scratch. However I used to use miscraft and I would always use loops until I discovered the musical keyboard function in my DAW.
One of the most important things I had to learn as a producer was that you have to be comfortable with your method of creating beats according to where you are at in your level of beat making. Don’t let people discourage you just because they don’t agree with your methods. I get great satisfaction out of flipping samples but now I’m at the point where I want a more intimate connection with my music and going to focus more on sound design vs sampling. Carve your own lane.
I think what’s lame as fuck is people policing how music should be made, so I agree with you there. Sometimes I sample loops. Sometimes I spend hours on MIDI tweaking voice leading and counterpoint. At the end of the day it’s about whatever makes the song the best it can be. And most of the people who talk shit about tools don’t have a single song to their name.
A producer should generally not make music with the goal to satisfy other producers expectations or impress other producers. You end up with something not quite hitting the mark, generally. Something not as many people can appreciate. Although i do f with data music. Maybe not exactly on the topic but
It's whatever works. Literally. You can record every part of the beat yourself on microphones, tune it all, put it together on tape, etc. and it can still not hit. It just matters if it feels good or not or succeeds as a piece of music that makes people move/or be moved. I know folks look at the tech and say "this isn't art" but the amount of effort to get a result isn't indicative of how great art can be. From my own personal experience -- I've done plenty of both. I will say, when I play my own guitar parts and my own drum sequencing, there is more organic quality to it. I personally like those tracks a bit more because I can feel that personal flair coming across. BUUUUT I eventually learned how to manipulate clean samples into sounding very analog and like a band in a room. That was a challenge within itself. I had to learn how do you take all these samples like players in a room and make them all work together so it sounds like an indie band somehow because I don't have access to a band, but I wanted to make that kind of music. And I think you make really great points -- it's not "fair" but that's how it goes. Look at the Gorillaz song how Damon showed that one interviewer that the entire melody to that shit is just a basic preset on some crappy keyboard that he loved. Does that song not still hit because the melody was "easy"? Hell no! It hits! Whatever works.
The argument that "whatever works works", taken to its extremes can mean that the ends justify the means, no matter what they are. Exploitation, abuse, deprivation, manipulation, heck, slavery, eliminating the competition; if they work, then they work right? Now, in the case of making music, it doesn't go quite that far, and you could say that I've used some unfair examples to make a point, and you'd be right. Just because life's unfair, and that's how the world is, and what works works, still doesn't mean that thing is right. Now that's just a criticism of the argument but let's talk about making music. If it's unfair that it's easy to make music using samples, then it's equally fine for those artists to be criticized for using samples lazily. It's whatever happens right? It's true that it's lazy, uncreative, uninspired- and sometimes it gets traction, and sometimes it doesn't. But that's like saying you'd listen to AI music if it were good- and maybe you would, but you get me? Part of music is the expertise, the experience, the creativity, the journey, the struggle, the uniqueness, the individuation, the authenticity of expression to make something profound, and if you're just mashing samples lazily, much worse if you stole them, then why is that worth any recognition or praise at all? Of course, there are some who add a lot of creative value alongside their use of sampling; so everything falls on a spectrum and you know yourselves.
wild to think that sampling from youtube wasn't ok and then madlib been doing it steady for years. My philosophy that I got from one of my mentors was, if it sounds good, it is good. chasing after the "proper" way to make a beat is a trap and overtime becomes harder to get out of. The story goes a guy wanted to do it right so he sampled off of vinyl, then he wanted to do it righter so he learned to play his own instruments, then he wanted to do it even more right and then made his own drum, then he decided to grow his own hide for drums and became a farmer and now doesn't have time for music lol
I just think music should be intentional. The methods are up for discussion but they're not important as the intention. At some point in the early 2010s I got addicted to making trap beats. One day I listened to like a 100 of my trap beats and they didn't sound like me(the person), even though I created everything from scratch and people appreciated the music. The real kicker came from me going back to making music intentional. I had to stay away from producing to regain the fire of being a real producer instead of going through motions.
The shitty thing is that visual collages are immediately obvious even to untrained eyes. Whereas you'll have no idea when you're listening to a splice sample unless you're already a producer that's heard the sample on Splice. Even the prior sampling methods of back in the day were far more obvious to everyone. Flips of 70s hits, amen breaks, etc. Now, I never know just how much credit to give a producer. If that even matters any more
but when u r using pre made instruments you havent made them and u havent made the software u r using and u havent build the computer u r using so its just about where we put the barrier between what is art and what is not as technology progresses we will get further and further with this barrier, i suppose whithin some period of time using ai to make a beat from just one prompt will be acceptable
@ This is nonsense. You are talking about being a luthier or a software dev, that is not composing music. Those things are still important but coding an oscillator isn’t the same as composing.
I love this. I just started music theory and producing and was feeling self conscious bc i want to make it all from scratch with no background. While clips and loops would maybe get me on the road faster, im here to make art
When I first started creating music I felt like I needed to use splice to make good music but then I realize that music is subjective. Art is subjective and I shouldn’t be judging myself too harshly or comparing myself too much to other producers. Everything I’ve made has been from scratch which is definitely more time consuming I’ll say but I get more enjoyment from the process knowing it wasn’t a drag and drop. Nothing against people who are successful in doing so, I just don’t think it would be rewarding for in the long end. To each their own though. Nice video tho, definitely subscribed!
The good ol "authentic artistry" vs. what's optimal for output conundrum. The vast majority of listeners, even the ones who can articulate their opinion on the mix of the song, are listening passively and aren't aware of the level of industry that goes into a popular song. Tech progression inevitably eats up what we consider authentic artistry, but the next gen that grows up with the new norm invariably cooks up something that's next level. Even if there is gonna be a ton of garbage and noise flooding the soundscape, the better stuff will bubble to the top imo. In a weird way, this is what democratization of music really looks like.
"but the next gen that grows up with the new norm invariably cooks up something that's next level" theyre already doing it, problem is its not promoted to become popular, so its mostly trap, pop, and hickhop that breaks now. The majors have gutted their AR dept. Trap has really outstayed its welcome, its been the zeitgeist for like 15 years.
Making a conversation between producers about the general audience is the biggest problem here. You could make the same argument about people who trace and get popular, and no one in the general audience would know.
It's all about the music; expressing yourself and how it makes the listeners feel at the end of the day! It's really interesting to see how people mix and approach samples in completely different ways. I feel that it is a beautiful way of expressing yourself, especially when done creatively.
making everything in midi is the most satisfying thing ever. (it's like completing a puzzle) nothing can take that from me 😂 (no audio-music related background)
This is exactly how i got to where i am now. I started off really wanting to make music years ago, but didnt have the money for any professional gear, and i didn't know much about music. But i used my laptop and my phone and made short songs and beats using free samples and loops on things like garage band and soundtrap. And now i have fl studio and am working on producing fully original songs :)
i am a new producer and really just do it as a hobby. I mostly create the chords, melodies and bass etc from scratch with my keyboard piano. I do however sometimes use pre done drum patterns (not the whole beat but for example like , like a kick sequence, then i have to try and identify the snare sequence i want to layer on it etc... As i become better at use FL studio i hope i will be able to make all the drum patterns myself. Its fun to do so. On the ocasssions i have done the drum patternes from scratch they have taken time but it is rewarding.
9:29 No, it's much easier to do now. Sampling from youtube is probably better quality than vinyl in some cases. I remember when we could only sample 6 seconds back in 1993/4 at 8/12bit. The trouble is, in this day and age, unless it's a classic break (like the amen where no one has been sued for it) you will have to clear the samples used. This isn't a viable option for me and I'm with you where sampling yourself is the far superior option for your own unique sound. How you play, record and how you process your raw sounds you will find your own. Established producers probably don't care to use samples because they're not that worried about offloading most of the proceeds because they have enough money anyway.
This is a good topic. A lot of artists on the stones throw label, and hiphop inspired me to make music, composing a piece definitely makes me feel more accomplished when it comes to getting what's inside, outside. That being said sampling was always a huge part of hiphop, it really forces you to learn music in a different way, a form of music appreciation if you will. If you feel really connected to a certain song and you want to sample It, It's like telling a story of your personal connection to the song being sampled, It's like giving reverence with your own personal flair. All of these creative processes are subject to being adopted into a business and or bastardised for the sake of making money.
I get that there are people who feel otherwise. But personally for me as a multi instrumentalist my whole life, I don't get that excited or feel all that proud of my work when I use samples, unless I'm really messing with them like with a granluator or using tiny bits for hocket
Really? Marshmello dropped a new tutorial. He used a riser sample saying he was going to make is own but got too used to the sample he was using so he just kept it. You'd be surprised by how many producers actually use these loops and samples out there.
@AFRoSHEENT3ARCMICHAEL69 no I'm not surprised because I know that's how it is. And it's why I'm not that enamored by electronic music anymore. I used to worship the ground aphex twin walked on until I heard all the samples he used. Its a personal hangup, not saying everyone should feel this way
I make beats as described for a friend-splice, program drums, add 808-but i also compose my own pieces and synthesize heavy synth basses. So I’m on both sides of the spectrum. Both are fun but producing from scratch requires so much more time and skill than modern beat making, so much so that they’re incomparable. But as a consequence, there’s a lot of incompetent producers and engineers.
personally i like sampling and making from scratch. if people are having fun and the music is great and its not straight up copy and paste i dont see why people are mad at that. its like people forgot why they became music producers in the first place. people will always talk no matter what lane in life just do what makes you happy.
Why stop at sampling, we should be building our own instruments from scratch as well, then build our microphones and computers as well… I think only mediocre producers are arguing this point
This really is a Hobby vs Job vs calling discussion, everyone has different goals and produces for different reasons. In art you'll always have the disgust for ready made art but thats kinda silly imo
This was such a cool and interesting discussion thank you for this! I've been producing and learning keys and music theory for 3 and a half years, and this video really had me thinking about my direction in music going forward. I love sampling, and I'm also enjoying learning piano and writing progressions and stuff. They are two completely different hats but can overlap often. But to get into that classic hip-hop sampling culture, you have to know a lot about music history, culture and record collecting. I find this can be a bit overwhelming (and elitist) at times, but I also want to learn more and dive deeper. That's why I absolutely support anyone using splice loops and things of that nature. Making music and learning about culture and history takes a long long time, and we're not all blessed with that time. Whatever gives you enjoyment and fullfilment is all that matters! I love sampling from RUclips, then adding vinyl crackle, tape hiss / distortion, bit reduction to give it texture like old vinyl records and cassettes and stuff. What I am learning is that the amount of effort put in isn't indicative of the quality of a song. I often find that I criticise my self by going "oh you should learn about the classic records to sample instead, you're not listening to the right stuff!" But what I'm learning is that there is no "right" way, only what sounds good. whatever you sample, you're going to gradually get a better ear for sampling, and the more music you make with genuine passion and love, the better you will become at making music :)
thanks for watching! theres no right or wrong way to make art - if learning the history is something youre interested in your should def pursue it, while having fun making your own music!
the best part about music is allowing people to use their form of expression as creatively as they can, and evoking emotions from ur audience. people argue so much about the technicality of art forms all like it’s not just a baseline to start from.
Started digging through some old sample packs and came across this edm construction kit and it had some really sweet banging stuff for something made in the early 2010s. Then i found a kit which was one to one the same as a song I heard loved and 'downloaded' back in the soundcloud days. I found the song and boy oh boy, whoever made it completely used only loops from the construction kit and published that song! I liked it back then and still do, but finding that it's something even I could've made was heart crushing. And I think that's why some despise the use of loops (especially when others do) because we expect that there'd be people disappointed in us. Ignoring the intellectual property side of things it is just beautiful on its own that songs can get to be made, shared and reach the masses without collecting dust in someones online shop or folder. So hooray to loops/sampling for the consumer. We producers have to detach from our position as creaters when we look at others art. Just because they did infact use somehting not made by their genius or it didn't take them time, doesn't mean that they made something unique, because anybody else wouldve used those loops differently to arrange the song. Think of it as skrillex giving some kid his old projects and saying you can use these however you like and they actually end up completing old tracks, mixing and mastering them too. That in itself is deserving of credit no matter how much was preordained. So let's be a bit more graceful :)
It's literally all about what sounds good to you. What you have and how you use it opposed to what you don't have is crucial to starting out as a producer. So as a beginner, if you take 5 loops from Splice or Looperman, throw them in a beat, and arrange them to your liking, that's your creativity speaking. About 2 months ago I made a beat with loops out of Arcade. The only section I made from scratch were the drums.
I call that type of sampling from splice as mixing. I use splice but always try and mix it up, pitch, chop etc. 99% of the time i make my own beats as that’s what i enjoy but sometimes, i use a live bongo loop to fill the drums out.
its fine though dont worry about it. The best producers who are doing something different / original will always come through eventually and be seen as the best. All the other stuff just gets lost in time and filtered out and those people are also having fun so who cares really
and if people are gonna make loop shite and not do anything themselves it's their loss really tbh because theyre just tryna get famous or make money instead of actually doing something meaningful
We went through the MCU era of rap in the mid 90s too, when all the pop rap records were just exact jacks of 70s R&B hits. You hit the nail on the head. It’s all been done before. During that exact same era, some of the best golden era hip hop was made that didn’t chart, and J Dilla was making tracks with the ummah.
my problem is not that they use sampled files, is the fact that the music itself is boring af, like for modern producers a transition is just muting the kick, snare or any other instrument and 5 secs later unmute everything and that's it, while a good transition is doing a gorgeous chord change or when the groove itself changes and that's how you make moments in music that makes you feel just great...
@sleepfieldro definetly but let say in trap/reggaeton 99% of the time it's like that, wich is why i can't get why ppl like it so much... So damn repetitive
@@sleepfieldro i mean, if we go to tribes is obviously understandable but this modern producers have everything to be unique and creative but is just getting worse and worse, this guys are going backwards...
It’s so easy to make something that’s listenable nowadays lol. I started in 2009 making dubstep and I would spend weeks making stuff. Now anyone can just get FL Studio, use their built in sample service and find some loops and arrange them and now you have made your first song. And that first song is going to sound like it could be played on the radio.
Only if you want to make bland and generic music tho. Modern dubstep artist are on a new level tbh but you have to dig hard to find them since the mainstream scene has become boring and bland. Most producers I listen to nowdays barely hit 3k plays on their tracks lol
Always start with mindset " today I really want creating or crafting a good song " If needed or to make more lively inspired , you can just use loops or whatever samples as a starting guide which you can erase latter . If the final song lost the coolness or greatness simply because those loops/samples not in there anymore , that`s mean we need to going back to make adjustments with the song itself
because a sample is already composed .. i like how you said you considered them two different art forms. i agree. both have their place, but i could see where it could be frustrating from a composition standpoint when many are getting success by sampling.
I'm a vocal engineer. I could mix and master whatever but I like mixing voices. There's a real art to maximizing someone's voice. When I make music I don't use vocal presets. I just think it takes the fun out of mixing. I also can't use presets because I don't have anything to do that. I essentially mix my voice in a way that's purely fine tuned to the instrumental I am using. SO across all my songs I sound very different. But it works. Most people would prolly say my music is trash off first rip because that level of consistency isn't there even within the track itself but its not about the consistency its about what sounds good. I always approach music from a sound design perspective. If the sound fits, it fits. IMO way too many rappers force presets onto beats that like bro turn the auto tune down just a bit, let your voice blend into the mix more here and there, etc etc yes your voice will sound different but with the beat it goes so hard. The sound design goes hard. I don't know music theory either really beyond basics, I purely make music off what I hear.
Yk I went into this video thinking there was gunna be some extreme gatekeeping around producing given the title; but I actually agree with the majority of what you said, and am glad I stuck around to hear the entirety of what you had to say. Especially when you said that part about 'it takes a while to get to a point where your music is something decent enough where you want to listen to it' which is why a lot of people rely on loops, or services like Splice to do a lot of the 'heavy lifting' in terms of curating samples. Generally speaking it kinda makes sense it would become mainstream for producers of all experience levels to use these services if you're just trying to get a project done in a relatively quick manner. It certainly is a lot easier than digging for a vinyl, recording that into something like audacity, importing it into a DAW; and then incorporating it into a song. And there's a lot of truth to what you said, at least from my own experience. I definitely relied on loops or sampling when I lacked gear/software or the experience to make what most people would define as 'proper music' (meaning made 100% from scratch). I was just working with a budget falling apart laptop, zero knowledge of music theory; and was tryna throw together a 'beat' for me and my friends to practice rapping to. However personally speaking; back then I would be too embarrassed to call myself a producer. Shoot even now that I'm at the point I have the gear and make songs my friends and I like to bump from scratch; I still struggle calling myself an 'artist' or 'producer' lmao. Idk just sounds too pretentious 🤷♂ But like you said tho to each their own! These people will always exist. It's better to accept these tools will exist to make our jobs easier as creators and were not meant to 'cheapen the arts' like people make it out to be. That being said, not all of these tools will be useful depending on how we want to create; but that's entirely up to the individual, and I agree we shouldn't gatekeep or come down on people who utilize or rely on these tools to create. Often times like we've addressed; these are tools used by people new to the game. So for that very reason we shouldn't be discouraging new artists from getting their feet wet. And even if they are 'veterans' and using Splice; more power to em. Obviously it's not viewed the same as composing/producing a song from the ground up; but so long as it sounds good, and everything is arranged nicely nobody should really care. People gotta stop tryna bring others down to seem higher; instead we should prop people up so we can all be greater. I wouldn't be making half decent beats if it wasn't for those tools that helped me bridge the gap between my will to create and my experience. It's what kept me from dropping out immediately cause you can still get decent results with relatively little experience and that encouraged me to keep going. And while I don't use Splice I do still sample on occasion, and bought of plugin/same libraries; so in a sense what I do isn't so different! I love just anything related to music! I don't mind making a remix, rapping over a loop, or making a track people don't consider 'real music' if it's for a project I'm passionate about. Just create to create. Edit: swapped the word 'producer' for 'creator' to be more apt.
I have this one track I made where the main sample was this splice loop. I altered that sum bish so much that I completely forgot what the original sample was when I wanted to recall something
I think the loop sampling feels more like a trend to me. There are still incredibly original and talented producers that are getting the songs they work to chart. (A.G Cook and Finneas come to mind). Though I see the concern, I can think of many charting pop songs from the 90s that used the same basic beat loops from Yamaha and Casio keyboards of the era, it’s just more obvious now because of the internet.
What people don’t talk about is using a loop as a place holder to build a beat around it then taking the loop out and leaving the beat as is or changing the melody/rhythm where the loop originally was. 😅 helps with a “quick” workflow if you don’t know how to start with your own melody or drums or whatever
I'm a musician and composer. I agree to a degree. Music has and always been what YOU create! Technology is a tool to express what you feel and hear in your head. I learn how to read and write music and played several instruments. But when the mac mini came out and Garageband loops! It save me time creating my drums. But that's it! Everything else I play! Anybody can use loops. But can they do what DJ Shadow did with, "Endtroducing"?
0:02 I used to do that in 2016 September when I first started thinking I was doing something but I went and watch more videos and stuff I learn cause me I’m a musician at first and I got tired of replaying people music so I wanted to do my own shxt 🤘🏾💯😌and still doing it and you got a good point loop melo or drum kit, well I don’t used splice I used loop pack from friends or something or looperman back in the day end I feel more accomplished when I start from scratch it’s just a great feeling
It might not be the most creative thing to do but there’s something to be said for being able to look at the bigger picture and know when two things will work well together. There’s so much grey area with producing/engineering overlap
The most fun thing about sampling for me is just mangling it totally beyond recognition, to be honest. Using a totally non musical sample and forcing it to be something tuneful is the most fun thing in the world.
This is a more complex topic then most people realize given all the variables involved . My attitudes towards using loops have changed over the years , and with new tech and the crazy grey area's in copyright , it's messy at best in some cases . Good or bad I avoid any turmoil by playing all instruments myself these days . Love the vid . Thanks CAMCURSE
I think its mostly about fulfillment I don't get much fulfillment out of using a melody loop and throwing drums on it. But at the same time loops can be good for building community(collabs) and for mass production on the big stage. If your a big time producer and you need have a studio session with a artist that artist might play through multiple beats in a session so you would need to bring more beats with you which is why you'll need to ramp up producing with loops if you know you take a long time. For me personally how can I know if I'm progressing and getting better if I only use loops. I want to understand WHY the loop works and be able to implement that into my own beats. As for sampling genres like hip hop house and drum and bass all got there starts from sampling. Its not really a black and white convo but going to the shop(or youtube) to find a record, listening to the whole thing for chops and then having to avoid the popular chops to make something unique is more fulfilling. It also can show off your personality as producer, it can show what you grew up listening to and what your interest are as a person. The sampling lines are more blurred though because you can call out hypocrisy on somethings. It is the same but it isn't the same at the same time if that makes sense.
also some people just dont got the money for all that equipment and plugins which also ties into the history of some genres. Its a nuanced conversation for sure.
Why would anyone make music for other producers lol. The people that don’t make music and just want to enjoy music is who you should be trying to aim for. Could care less if any producer hates the way I produce a song when x person who doesn’t do any production and just wants a song to enjoy ends up loving my song. The goal is to please people that just want to indulge in music they enjoy. This argument is so played out cause if a producer could see into the future and it said “if you use this splice loop in your song, you’ll become a massive hit” they would all use the loop 😂 99% of Sabrina Carpenter fans don’t care about a splice loop in her hit song let alone know what splice even is. Do you want to make music for the person that will stream it endlessly or appease your producer friend who will listen to it one time and never come back? All the hit rap songs just sample from old hit records. Splice is literally no different. Why stress myself about making a top loop from scratch that will sound like any other top loop that no one will even notice the difference? Just make the song good people, enjoy the process, and relish in the final product.
Admittedly I always stayed away from chopping samples or composing from scratch because I knew it would take a lot more brain power. Now that I understand basic music theory and educated my myself on sampling techniques my beats have elevated exponentially. We kind of live in an era where “trying” is seen as corny in away and it shows. I believe if more beat makers educated themselves on music theory and different sampling techniques instead of looping that would help
this is great perspective, and i think it also applies to rappers who rap over their own vocals and barely do live vocals at shows, they dont want to seem like they are trying or care cus then they are lame and corny
I don't care how other people make music or not. If the song sounds good then it sounds good. Personally, I think it's unimpressive and too easy to basically just rip any sample from anywhere and at most just just the speed or pitch, so I don't do that when I sample for a song that I legitimately care about making. But I don't let this take away from my appreciation of other music, because it doesn't matter how easy it was to make, if it sounds good it sounds good.
The question of a producer's skill and the finished product are separate but related. A skilled producer can make trash (see RZA Guitar Center demo) and a bad producer can throw his name on some shit that other people made and it can be a hit (DJ Khaled has made a career off this). If we separate this out, then we can get to the core question: what are you doing this for? A lot of people want to be producers because they like music, respect it as an art form, and want to make it. Those folks are not going to stick with stock loops and shit for long, they're going to want to learn. But for the folks who want to be producers because it can be profitable (looool) or put them close to famous people, they'll just do whatever it takes. Different aims, different approaches. Both a definitionally "producers," but I honestly wouldn't call both artists.
I dig this. Well said, man. Im a composer first, but I do enjoy making beats. It's a different artform...different skillset (with some overlap). I think most seasoned producers can discern quality, and most of the time, they can pick out if someone is using loops or not. Some of us nerds might even recognize the sample or pack if it hasnt been processed 😅...but at the end of the day, I say do what brings you joy...not everyone has time or willingness to go deep into it..some folks want a quick after work beat to chill or rap too....and i think beginning producers can learn alot by putting loops together...arrangement, developing ear... im not past starting out with loops for some inspiration... and certainly use reference tracks....especially if working on a sync project. They can be great song starters...but give credit where credit is due!
I think he’s absolutely right in what he says. Working with loops, pre-made drums, and pre-mixed hi-hats takes away a lot of creativity. Using a drum machine, starting from scratch, drawing inspiration from sounds on records, like kicks or snares, and creating everything from A to Z is a real challenge. Not only does it take time, but you also need good machines and high-quality samplers to bring your ideas to life. It’s a much harder way to work, but that’s what real music production is about. That’s how a true composer or an authentic beatmaker is supposed to work. Nowadays, people often settle for a keyboard, a mouse, and a screen. Using ready-made loops or pre-designed melodies doesn’t encourage creativity. You’re no longer really composing; you’re assembling pieces like a puzzle, trying to fit each part into its place. That said, more and more producers are returning to drum machines, crafting their own kicks, snares, and hi-hats, and fully composing their tracks. They choose their own reverb, delay, distortion, and carefully add these elements to their productions. I understand that this approach takes time and money, but the result is much more original and creative than simply pasting loops from websites or using pre-made melodies. I believe great days are ahead for beat-making because we’re seeing more and more people working with advanced machines and samplers, challenging themselves, innovating, and creating truly original sounds. It’s slowly but surely making a comeback. One very important point I want to emphasize is that when everything becomes easy, when we always choose convenience without putting in effort or thought, everything ends up sounding the same. All music starts to have the same color. When you listen to certain songs on streaming platforms, you can immediately tell: “Oh, that melody came from this website.” That’s where the difference lies: an unrecognizable, unique piece of music is one that required time and effort. On the other hand, a track that’s instantly recognizable for its simplicity is often based on pre-made elements.
i dont make music but this pertains to so much other stuff. we all rely on other people to do everything. if we all made everything from scratch like from literal ground zero nothing would get done. you could say just using a computer to make art is cheating so you need to make your own from metal ore
out of the 1000 or so projects ive started i cant say i have ever used no cheesy ass loops. twice maybe. always considered it cheating. to each their own, but i like building the beat from scratch, Ive been creating beats for 10-12 years. I just started making ones that reach my own standards. which i set impossibly high for myself. Its way more gratifying tho. its like recieving a message from god that you get to share, All them corny loops sound generic and souless imo
Music makers can argue that recording something into a hardware sequencer and playing live is not equal to editing loop tracks into a song, but the audience isn’t concerned with the process.
I would say this is a bit ignorant. Some of those in the audience do care, and other creators can be part of that audience too. It's not just about the final product is it, there's a lot that can come from one single piece of work. New ideas, techniques, visions, creative changes, unique directions that inform more than just the simple listening of a song. If the audience didn't care how music was made at all, we would never have any population interested enough to make music in the first place.
Hip Hop at it's core is about DJ culture. We don't sample out of ignorance, or a lack of knowledge of how to create original compositions. We use samples because that's how Hip Hop is made. We flip something that someone has made and create something new. That's Hip Hop!
I agree. On my channel I use an MPC X, Daw and as much hardware as I have room for. Always trying to create or mx up some sounds to take them out of thier original form before I go in. Sometimes I loop stuff but usually only when it asks for it. Keep it Original
it really depends what you used with the loops because its a tool, if you only put a loop over a drum loop too and called it a day. Your not a producer, your just subjectively a producer by releasing songs that were not made by you but you uploaded it. Real beat makers make it from scratch or team work with other producers who you can talk to and change the melody but if ur using loops online you cant take the stems from it and change it, so your not a producer who did the actual work of whats memorable of a song from a listener ears
If the one that uses loops from other artists knows how to use and arrange that very sample in his own project and that it has meaning, values and the message is understood, then there is no need to be mad at that since the person understood one fundamental of musique! For me music isn't about getting from one point to another or just making sick beats, it's about making the listener understand the message behind the song and making them feel the right feelings & emotions that was firstly intended by you (your own message). A kid that says: WOW, sick beat, W beat, sick flow, cool or even fire🔥🔥, to me those listeners aren't feeling anything particularly nor understanding anything but rather relating to their fav artists that have similar flows! There isn't anything true & deep anymore but just meaningless excitement that lasts a few seconds. I WANT MUSIC TO BE REVIVED AS IT USED TO BE BEFORE!!
RUclips is orders of magnitude more vast and has more obscure things than your local record store. You could also sample things other than songs from RUclips, news broadcasts, documentaries, memes, not to mention unsigned artists who never even made it enough to have anything IN a record store, even musicians doing tutorials or covers online. Empirically more obscure, interesting and diverse than your local crate
good point! id argue the opposite too though - there are sooo many weird records, cassettes, vhs tapes etc thats ive found out in the world that dont exist anywhere on the internet. its all about what you prefer to do imo
I'd say I appreciate original music more than sampled music for the most part. It usually takes more effort and creativity to produce original music. Though sampled music has a wide range of complexity and difficulty, like you said. Its almost like photoshopping existing media with templates vs creating your own media from scratch in graphic design.
I strive to make everything myself when it comes to grooves, percussion, arrangement, etc. I think if a producer uses loops here and there because they just fit exactly what they’re looking for, that’s okay. They had the vision & they’re just using what’s at their disposal. Most of being an artist/producer is having a vision and creating that vision. I don’t think using loops here & there changes that. Maybe if you only use loops and strictly follow templates then I would say that’s not really art.
im so lost as to why this continues to be a debate in music. interpolation and sampling can themselves be an artform. i wouldnt call myself a producer but i have started to get into it from a classical composition background and am someone who loves hiphop. the new kendrick album exibited great examples of sampling. luther comes to mind for me as a way you take a sample and make a completely completely new song. and imagine the song without the sample??? part of the art is selecting the sample, and then hearing something new from it entirely, or using it as is but to create a new message out of it e.g. tupac changes, kanye through the wire, jpegmafia i'll be right there i love the way mfdoom samples in his beats as well. perfect example of how you can stack samples, and take snippets here and there, create new drum loops out of them, alter the melodies. i dont see why the same logic cant be applied with loops more generally. to me it seems pretentious and about purity. in classical music we sometimes reference famous progressions, melodies, intervals, to create a message out of or as an homage. e.g. ave maria's chord progression just being bach's prelude in C. there's nothing unoriginal or uncreative of hearing something as it exists, and then somehow creating something entitely different through it. that to me takes a lot of creativity. and back in the day u could try making samples unrecogniseable because of copyright as well and so you end up with some crazy different and unique outcomes from the OG product. and that's so exiting. reimagination requires imagination, period. yes things changed, and the art got a bit lazy (looking at pdiddy for that one), but that doesnt mean it can never be creative and artsy ever again, and we still see to this day new music being created with gorgeous uses of sampling. personally as a composer i thought composing from scratch would be my preferred way into producing but i have such an appreciation for how sampling has been done in the past that i think i'll challenge myself to be "lazy" and put in the effort to make a sample nearly unrecognisable, because i think that's a valued art form in of itself and always fun to make music from a little prompt.
im using a budget 8 track software to make ambient/vaporwave/ dark music, and this is nice and refreshing, motivating to keep making tru compositions. cheers.
I used to feel this way, but tbh what good does it do to judge others. We’re all on our own journey. Plus it’s hard to sound unique and have “your sound” when you’re just ripping 3-4 samples from splice and using them as is. If you can make a successful long-term career off of that, then honestly, I’d be impressed. 😂
Nah he chops most his samples or scratches them if they ain't long enough like in 10 crack Commandments one of the few beats of his that loop is the track insp-her-ation
Im in the digital artwork world and let me tell you. Creators hate each other in that world too… photobashing (taking pictures and mashing them to make new pieces) and tracing is widely unaccepted but some of the most popular artists do that including industry pros for fighting game artwork in the 90s up until today. Its crazy that when they find out your process they get upset. Music is the same way. It’s all dope until they find out its a loop. I think creators just hate each other
My problem with loops is how many hours do I have to scroll trough loops to find what I want and why I just don't make it myself because it's my vision of what it should be like and it's easier to just make the loop than surch for something that may be close. And yes, sometimes it takes minutes and sometimes takes hours to make the loop sound okey.
YES exactly how I feel about these “artists” that just use sound packs and don’t actually go through the hard but exciting work to make your own interesting type beat which has never been heard before! That is exciting! Listening to these up and coming “producers” that get big way too quick especially off of Tik Tok is the definition of hype. But yeah man !
Yeah all facts honestly. 95% of my beats don't use samples, and I always try to chop up any splice samples I use, but for people trying to sell beats at any cost to rappers, they (the rappers) definitely don't care as long as it sounds good and makes them want to buy it. A sale is a sale. But yeah those pre cooked Build-a-Beat Workshop loop "packs" on splice where all the elements fit together like legos are very lame. Got kids that have NOT put the work in thinking they're Kanye, when all they basically did is take another producer's stems from a beat and...turn it back into the same fking beat lol. Zero creativity with that. Then again I mostly use (but still modify) synth presets and pre processed drum hit samples, so the synth sound design wizards and acoustic drum set playing producers probably think I'm sacrilegious. We can't all be Tame Impala. There's always gonna be gatekeepers at every level. Great points though.
my favorite quote pertaining to this topic is this:
"I thought that using loops was cheating, so I programmed my own using samples. I then thought using samples was cheating, so I recorded real drums. I then thought that programming it was cheating, so I learned to play drums for real. I then thought using bought drums was cheating, so I learned to make my own. I then thought using premade skins was cheating, so I killed a goat and skinned it. I then thought that was cheating too, so I grew my own goat from a baby goat. I also think that is cheating, but I'm not sure where to go from here. I haven't made any music lately, what with the goat farming and all."
Guitarist don't make guitars yet with their effort and talent they play it and make something beautiful. And that is not same as downloading Guitar loop.So your comment is shit basically
@@MrXamanX ur so lost its about the reverse engineering not the talent
@@MrXamanX You missed the point of the quote. The point is that worrying about being "wholly original" with your music can lead to not making any music at all.
you gotta make the drums using your own skin next
i actually have a goat farm smh.
The drum track from Rihanna's "Umbrella" is from the stock Garage Band loop library, on every Mac on the planet.
Yes, which is a good lesson. Her voice and the lyrics are the relevant part of the song that make it a hit. She was born a star.
@@mjrisinsd6836 I feel like her #1 selling point is perfect skin, symmetrical face, her audacity- singing skills are not near the top but as we know, it hasn't been about that for a long time now! Any church or community college will have a better singer.
@ yeah, but that is a big part of it as well. Performance is more than technical mastery. Virtuosos overlook so much, but you generally can’t get through to them. Pop music is not complicated.
@@mjrisinsd6836 Yup you said it perfectly when you said don't look for fantastic high art on pop radio!
It's not about any of that in big name normie pop, as long as you have half decent songwriting and good production with a marketing team who can bring your otherwise mediocre music to a wider audience you'll succeed. That's the problem with a lot of music in the modern day, it stems directly from big music corporations' need to make more money through creating more well known artists. No real artistic merit or soul to it, just board room style decisions.
There's so much that goes on behind the scenes in the music industry that this topic really is always going to be a very niche thing that only diehard producers care about. At the end of the day its a music business & a very very very slim minority of listeners care how you got to the end product. I've seen newer producers without a deep bag of skills to pull from get lucky with drag & dropping splice samples & get songs. There's nothing wrong with it imo bc at the end of the day the producers who do have a deep bag and enjoy the process and the art of sampling or making melodies or helping put songs together will stick around for much longer than the producer who uses Splice as a major crutch for what they aren't good at.
A lot of the game is about curation & good taste. Good news is typically the people with a FULL skillset as a producer (makes good melodies, knows how to chop anything in front of them, yammin drums, great arrangements, good songwriting, good curation) will outlast those who some of you may feel like "got lucky" & "isn't a real producer". What I've noticed is that every genuinely great and talented producer I've met & worked with does not give a fk if you use Splice or not because they are worried about bigger & more important things like making a record that people can have life experiences with. I know many producers who can create symphonies out of thin air from scratch, and they still use Splice from time to time bc it can provide good utility & they don't have egos. It's rare you see a producer in the industry stick around for a long time without providing any value or have 0 production skills so to me it's a self-regulating issue given a long enough time span. When you zoom out you realize that no matter how much elitist care about this topic, the listeners who you are making the music for just simply don't & I'll never expect them to.
The big names don't tell you what they use behind closed doors, ask me how I know. Most would prefer you use serum and the latest weak packs for everything as their stuff will stand out. Splice (loops) is great for starting out and to hack the process but eventually you have to be creative because the big guys are and DO NOT tell you what they're actually using. BUUUT, Splice is an infinite source of quality individually recorded single hit samples that can save a lot of time and effort that can be spent trying to record at the highest level .Look at what people go through to record their own sounds from keyboards, instruments etc..Insider knowledge spoiler here: samples are still king and always will be. The emulation vs samples debate is not real, it's for the "little guys". Dr. Dre's quote about sound sourcing is still as valid today as it ever was.
hello
Exactly 🔥
w
This
Art has no rules.
And if you make a rule we’ll break them.
love
Doesn't make you any less of a lazy hack. I guess being a lousy artist is still being an artist though, so go nuts.
ur my kinda guy 🤟
exactly! i really believe some ppl forget making music is art and has no rules
People don’t care about the process. It’s about the product.
@@eltontrebajo i dont fully agree but the product def matters more to everyone else but the artist themselves most likely
@@sleepfieldroyou’re objectively biased towards the production side of things. An average listener doesn’t know anything.
Before music production i didn't know what samples are @@kaydgaming
AS THEY SHOULD
And 90% of the time, the modern product sucks too. Lmao
If sampling other peoples music wasn't a thing, there would be no house, or hip hop music. The Dance floor would be empty. Thank fuck for sampling and loops.
oooo i love this, you're so right!
The very Idea that you could be upset at how another producer makes music is insane at this point.
If you want to have a conversation about the commercialization of art go talk to a label executive. People are just trying to make cool shit. Idrc if you recorded raindrops or cut and pasted whole loops. If it's good, it's good.
Underrated comment!
It’s a superiority thing they think they are better than others because they don’t use loops those people are weird
Is it? I feel like as an artist (literal drawing) this reminds of other artists not liking Greg Land. Greg Land is a comic book artist who is extremely well known for his rampant tracing, and yet he gets mainstream recognition. One of the biggest parts about art is the effort you put into it, and if you're putting minimal effort, never have to learn any skills, and make the same money as someone who is putting their soul into it and trained for years, it's completely fair for people to call you out.
@What makes it unfair? The method he uses to create his art or the mainstream recognition he gets for it? Since when did years of hard work and learning a skill make someone entitled to define whats fair? Esp in a subjective field like art? and then on top of that how do you determine that someone didn’t work hard at their craft for years before enhancing their workflow with the use of premade samples? Does mainstream recognition determine the value of your art? and to repeat art is subjective, so one of the biggest parts for you may the effort but for someone else the ends may justify the means. The result is whats judged and valued by those who consume it. I can’t for the life of me harbor any distaste for someone receiving recognition for the end product they created regardless of the materials they used to create it or steps they skipped to get there. The tradeoff is I have that same freedom to create whatever I like using whatever I like. If the cost of that is a few random people making bangers with splice samples and nothing else so be it. Final point, if your work is good it’ll speak for itself and stand the test of time. Theres a stark difference in career outcome over-time between someone who got lucky with samples or AI vs someone who’s actually good at what they do. That’s natural selection, no hate from me required.
choosing the samples is the talent, i think the more you do to manipulate the samples into something that fits vocals, the more likely a good song will come of it, if you really take pride in producing, you will probably want to do it from scratch, if you just want the best end product, use whatever.
@@beatsbyjune i think it really depends on the song/sample, sometimes additional manipulation to a sample is unnecessary and the song works better if its just looped as is
@ exactly. I think I try to manipulate things the slightest to decrease likelihood of content Id issues. But I agree. I think if you like the sample use it. But throwing a drum loop on a melody and calling it a day isn’t going to have the composition of a hit. Nice video though. I was just listening to a Tyler interview, where he talked about forgetting about making money, and just to focus on loving the art. It’s hard when you want to make money, but need to focus on the art. Keep it up bro, subbed
@@beatsbyjune finding samples is a talent you have to reconise musical value into something or at least the potential of it. Choosing sample that have been already organized and selected for us is not.
Well not really, it's more about knowing how to arrange and put that sample in the right spot of your track!
@ exactly!
The main difference between using a Splice loop (or any other company's pre-made loops) vs sampling from vinyl or cassettes etc. is that the Splice loops are already a perfect loop and perfectly in tune. You can easily search for what you want and it will pop right up without much work. Yes you still have to "dig" I guess... but with vinyl, you have to really find the samples yourself (and have a good ear / taste for what is dope), make sure they are in tune, chop, quantize & timestretch to stay on tempo since a lot of old songs don't have a consistent bpm. More skills, care and creativity is needed for the "old school" way in my opinion. With all of that being said, I feel anyway you do it is still producing. Using pre-made loops is just the newer way of doing it and I respect it fully. I love to do it all. I make my own music and original samples from scratch, chop samples from vinyl and cassettes, and use pre-made melodies from time to time.
@@StevenQBeatz i agree! at the end of the day music is art and there are no rules
if you can tune or time samples then the world is small to you...
what I hate more is people sampling youtube
crazy thing is you don’t even have to dig actual vinyls if ur broke like most of us. RUclips to wav is all you need. Now you’re actually searching for music you like online and then actually chopping it up and making something. I had someone ask me where I got my samples and they were actually in awe when I said “from music I like” made me a lil sad but it’s aight different strokes
actually
@@nexusobserve so you hate Burial??
I literally only extract midi from obscure Mediterranean commercials and flip it. Than I contact the library of congress and start buying up as many patents as possible. And than I bury my intellectual opposition with dope ass diss tracks that they wrote.
@@knotdone5292 the only way to create authentic music!
@sleepfieldro Lol but all jokes aside brother this was a very insightful video, and a rather refreshing take on an issue that most people seem to be toxic about, rather than opening a dialouge like this
I personally love when producers make dope beats with samples because it sort of pays homage to the old school. I for one have never Been one to sample many things I was always the type to make beats from scratch. However I used to use miscraft and I would always use loops until I discovered the musical keyboard function in my DAW.
@@flyjamztheproducermusicisl8766 same. It's still very muchba skill and very much creative
One of the most important things I had to learn as a producer was that you have to be comfortable with your method of creating beats according to where you are at in your level of beat making. Don’t let people discourage you just because they don’t agree with your methods. I get great satisfaction out of flipping samples but now I’m at the point where I want a more intimate connection with my music and going to focus more on sound design vs sampling. Carve your own lane.
so true
great words of inspiration
I think what’s lame as fuck is people policing how music should be made, so I agree with you there. Sometimes I sample loops. Sometimes I spend hours on MIDI tweaking voice leading and counterpoint. At the end of the day it’s about whatever makes the song the best it can be. And most of the people who talk shit about tools don’t have a single song to their name.
very great point! its all about what the individual artist wants to do imo
A producer should generally not make music with the goal to satisfy other producers expectations or impress other producers. You end up with something not quite hitting the mark, generally. Something not as many people can appreciate. Although i do f with data music.
Maybe not exactly on the topic but
@@dtown5id nah im following, that definitely happens in all communities of art, making art for other similar artists
Very much so on the topic bc the only people who will ever get angry about this are other producers 😂
Had a music teacher tell me once that all hip hop producers who use drum kits are faking their talents lmao
wtf does that even mean 😂
It's whatever works.
Literally.
You can record every part of the beat yourself on microphones, tune it all, put it together on tape, etc. and it can still not hit.
It just matters if it feels good or not or succeeds as a piece of music that makes people move/or be moved.
I know folks look at the tech and say "this isn't art" but the amount of effort to get a result isn't indicative of how great art can be.
From my own personal experience -- I've done plenty of both.
I will say, when I play my own guitar parts and my own drum sequencing, there is more organic quality to it. I personally like those tracks a bit more because I can feel that personal flair coming across.
BUUUUT I eventually learned how to manipulate clean samples into sounding very analog and like a band in a room. That was a challenge within itself.
I had to learn how do you take all these samples like players in a room and make them all work together so it sounds like an indie band somehow because I don't have access to a band, but I wanted to make that kind of music.
And I think you make really great points -- it's not "fair" but that's how it goes.
Look at the Gorillaz song how Damon showed that one interviewer that the entire melody to that shit is just a basic preset on some crappy keyboard that he loved.
Does that song not still hit because the melody was "easy"? Hell no! It hits!
Whatever works.
@@Shinyshoesz 100% spot on, its all about what makes the creator happy and what the listeners enjoy hearing!
perfect response.
That’s such a corny idea, you let people be lazy
The argument that "whatever works works", taken to its extremes can mean that the ends justify the means, no matter what they are. Exploitation, abuse, deprivation, manipulation, heck, slavery, eliminating the competition; if they work, then they work right?
Now, in the case of making music, it doesn't go quite that far, and you could say that I've used some unfair examples to make a point, and you'd be right.
Just because life's unfair, and that's how the world is, and what works works, still doesn't mean that thing is right. Now that's just a criticism of the argument but let's talk about making music.
If it's unfair that it's easy to make music using samples, then it's equally fine for those artists to be criticized for using samples lazily. It's whatever happens right?
It's true that it's lazy, uncreative, uninspired- and sometimes it gets traction, and sometimes it doesn't. But that's like saying you'd listen to AI music if it were good- and maybe you would, but you get me?
Part of music is the expertise, the experience, the creativity, the journey, the struggle, the uniqueness, the individuation, the authenticity of expression to make something profound, and if you're just mashing samples lazily, much worse if you stole them, then why is that worth any recognition or praise at all?
Of course, there are some who add a lot of creative value alongside their use of sampling; so everything falls on a spectrum and you know yourselves.
💪🏾💯💯
wild to think that sampling from youtube wasn't ok and then madlib been doing it steady for years. My philosophy that I got from one of my mentors was, if it sounds good, it is good. chasing after the "proper" way to make a beat is a trap and overtime becomes harder to get out of. The story goes a guy wanted to do it right so he sampled off of vinyl, then he wanted to do it righter so he learned to play his own instruments, then he wanted to do it even more right and then made his own drum, then he decided to grow his own hide for drums and became a farmer and now doesn't have time for music lol
dope comment
@@AkashGamana lol yes ive heard this same analogy, i agree as long as it sounds good thats what ultimately matters!
I just think music should be intentional. The methods are up for discussion but they're not important as the intention.
At some point in the early 2010s I got addicted to making trap beats. One day I listened to like a 100 of my trap beats and they didn't sound like me(the person), even though I created everything from scratch and people appreciated the music.
The real kicker came from me going back to making music intentional. I had to stay away from producing to regain the fire of being a real producer instead of going through motions.
mashing loops is like mashing paintings for a collage. You’re not painting.
@@motcUS true, but youre still making art!
@ I agree! You are still an artist! Just touching on the initial composing bit ig ❤️
The shitty thing is that visual collages are immediately obvious even to untrained eyes. Whereas you'll have no idea when you're listening to a splice sample unless you're already a producer that's heard the sample on Splice. Even the prior sampling methods of back in the day were far more obvious to everyone. Flips of 70s hits, amen breaks, etc. Now, I never know just how much credit to give a producer. If that even matters any more
but when u r using pre made instruments you havent made them and u havent made the software u r using and u havent build the computer u r using so its just about where we put the barrier between what is art and what is not as technology progresses we will get further and further with this barrier, i suppose whithin some period of time using ai to make a beat from just one prompt will be acceptable
@ This is nonsense. You are talking about being a luthier or a software dev, that is not composing music. Those things are still important but coding an oscillator isn’t the same as composing.
I love this. I just started music theory and producing and was feeling self conscious bc i want to make it all from scratch with no background. While clips and loops would maybe get me on the road faster, im here to make art
Do it all from scratch mate:)
@@reallychillgoose music should be fun, so if you want to learn composing in the background while using samples/loop id say go for it!
Music theory will deff increase your production skills 💯
When I first started creating music I felt like I needed to use splice to make good music but then I realize that music is subjective. Art is subjective and I shouldn’t be judging myself too harshly or comparing myself too much to other producers. Everything I’ve made has been from scratch which is definitely more time consuming I’ll say but I get more enjoyment from the process knowing it wasn’t a drag and drop. Nothing against people who are successful in doing so, I just don’t think it would be rewarding for in the long end. To each their own though. Nice video tho, definitely subscribed!
awesome, glad you enjoyed the video! i agree, making art should at least start as something you have fun doing,
The good ol "authentic artistry" vs. what's optimal for output conundrum. The vast majority of listeners, even the ones who can articulate their opinion on the mix of the song, are listening passively and aren't aware of the level of industry that goes into a popular song.
Tech progression inevitably eats up what we consider authentic artistry, but the next gen that grows up with the new norm invariably cooks up something that's next level. Even if there is gonna be a ton of garbage and noise flooding the soundscape, the better stuff will bubble to the top imo. In a weird way, this is what democratization of music really looks like.
"but the next gen that grows up with the new norm invariably cooks up something that's next level"
theyre already doing it, problem is its not promoted to become popular, so its mostly trap, pop, and hickhop that breaks now. The majors have gutted their AR dept. Trap has really outstayed its welcome, its been the zeitgeist for like 15 years.
i agree, the more accessible something is the more the outliers standout
Making a conversation between producers about the general audience is the biggest problem here. You could make the same argument about people who trace and get popular, and no one in the general audience would know.
It's all about the music; expressing yourself and how it makes the listeners feel at the end of the day! It's really interesting to see how people mix and approach samples in completely different ways. I feel that it is a beautiful way of expressing yourself, especially when done creatively.
@@veh_mix i agree, great perspective!
Lack of musicians, music theory is needed.
i personally think learning theory helps a lotttt but its also not fully necessary
making everything in midi is the most satisfying thing ever. (it's like completing a puzzle) nothing can take that from me 😂 (no audio-music related background)
@@vasileiospgr yesss haha i love getting lost in piano roll
these new producers need to start being creative. half my snare sounds are just a recording of me flicking an empty can of monster into my mic
lol i love this! ive def gotten locked in to using the same drum sounds
If u mix it right you a engineer 😂
This is exactly how i got to where i am now. I started off really wanting to make music years ago, but didnt have the money for any professional gear, and i didn't know much about music. But i used my laptop and my phone and made short songs and beats using free samples and loops on things like garage band and soundtrap. And now i have fl studio and am working on producing fully original songs :)
hell yeah! i love to hear this, so glad youre enjoying the process!
i am a new producer and really just do it as a hobby. I mostly create the chords, melodies and bass etc from scratch with my keyboard piano. I do however sometimes use pre done drum patterns (not the whole beat but for example like , like a kick sequence, then i have to try and identify the snare sequence i want to layer on it etc... As i become better at use FL studio i hope i will be able to make all the drum patterns myself. Its fun to do so. On the ocasssions i have done the drum patternes from scratch they have taken time but it is rewarding.
@@rajibear77 yes you will get better at it as you go, keep making beats!
9:29 No, it's much easier to do now. Sampling from youtube is probably better quality than vinyl in some cases. I remember when we could only sample 6 seconds back in 1993/4 at 8/12bit.
The trouble is, in this day and age, unless it's a classic break (like the amen where no one has been sued for it) you will have to clear the samples used. This isn't a viable option for me and I'm with you where sampling yourself is the far superior option for your own unique sound. How you play, record and how you process your raw sounds you will find your own.
Established producers probably don't care to use samples because they're not that worried about offloading most of the proceeds because they have enough money anyway.
I love making beats sample free also but sampling does help me be more creative as I arrange around sample. Just leaving the sample as is sucks
Exactly
it depends on the sample imo but most of the time this is facts
This is a good topic. A lot of artists on the stones throw label, and hiphop inspired me to make music, composing a piece definitely makes me feel more accomplished when it comes to getting what's inside, outside. That being said sampling was always a huge part of hiphop, it really forces you to learn music in a different way, a form of music appreciation if you will. If you feel really connected to a certain song and you want to sample It, It's like telling a story of your personal connection to the song being sampled, It's like giving reverence with your own personal flair.
All of these creative processes are subject to being adopted into a business and or bastardised for the sake of making money.
@@delwolf159 i love this perspective, escaping the pull of money and business as an artist is near impossible
Yes and there is more to sampling than taking a 4 bar loop and doing nothing to it. Yes, more than just pitching it up or down
@@wm1573 absolutely, sampling is a powerful technique
I get that there are people who feel otherwise. But personally for me as a multi instrumentalist my whole life, I don't get that excited or feel all that proud of my work when I use samples, unless I'm really messing with them like with a granluator or using tiny bits for hocket
@@BobrLovr totally valid, i feel similar at times
Really? Marshmello dropped a new tutorial. He used a riser sample saying he was going to make is own but got too used to the sample he was using so he just kept it. You'd be surprised by how many producers actually use these loops and samples out there.
if I where a multi Instrumentalist, I'd feel the same haha
@AFRoSHEENT3ARCMICHAEL69 no I'm not surprised because I know that's how it is. And it's why I'm not that enamored by electronic music anymore. I used to worship the ground aphex twin walked on until I heard all the samples he used. Its a personal hangup, not saying everyone should feel this way
@@BobrLovrwhy tho?
I make beats as described for a friend-splice, program drums, add 808-but i also compose my own pieces and synthesize heavy synth basses. So I’m on both sides of the spectrum. Both are fun but producing from scratch requires so much more time and skill than modern beat making, so much so that they’re incomparable. But as a consequence, there’s a lot of incompetent producers and engineers.
its def good to do both id say! unfortunately people are gonna do what they want regardless
personally i like sampling and making from scratch. if people are having fun and the music is great and its not straight up copy and paste i dont see why people are mad at that. its like people forgot why they became music producers in the first place. people will always talk no matter what lane in life just do what makes you happy.
Why stop at sampling, we should be building our own instruments from scratch as well, then build our microphones and computers as well…
I think only mediocre producers are arguing this point
whewwwwwww
this auto correcting camera got me tripping
This really is a Hobby vs Job vs calling discussion, everyone has different goals and produces for different reasons. In art you'll always have the disgust for ready made art but thats kinda silly imo
oh shit gami !! big fan of ur stuff man, thanks for checking out the vid! hobby vs job vs calling is a really interesting way to frame this
This was such a cool and interesting discussion thank you for this!
I've been producing and learning keys and music theory for 3 and a half years, and this video really had me thinking about my direction in music going forward.
I love sampling, and I'm also enjoying learning piano and writing progressions and stuff. They are two completely different hats but can overlap often. But to get into that classic hip-hop sampling culture, you have to know a lot about music history, culture and record collecting. I find this can be a bit overwhelming (and elitist) at times, but I also want to learn more and dive deeper.
That's why I absolutely support anyone using splice loops and things of that nature. Making music and learning about culture and history takes a long long time, and we're not all blessed with that time. Whatever gives you enjoyment and fullfilment is all that matters! I love sampling from RUclips, then adding vinyl crackle, tape hiss / distortion, bit reduction to give it texture like old vinyl records and cassettes and stuff.
What I am learning is that the amount of effort put in isn't indicative of the quality of a song. I often find that I criticise my self by going "oh you should learn about the classic records to sample instead, you're not listening to the right stuff!"
But what I'm learning is that there is no "right" way, only what sounds good. whatever you sample, you're going to gradually get a better ear for sampling, and the more music you make with genuine passion and love, the better you will become at making music :)
thanks for watching! theres no right or wrong way to make art - if learning the history is something youre interested in your should def pursue it, while having fun making your own music!
the best part about music is allowing people to use their form of expression as creatively as they can, and evoking emotions from ur audience. people argue so much about the technicality of art forms all like it’s not just a baseline to start from.
exactly! i think people often forget that music is art and has no rules :)
Not me watch me cook up a beat on my latest video from scratch
Started digging through some old sample packs and came across this edm construction kit and it had some really sweet banging stuff for something made in the early 2010s. Then i found a kit which was one to one the same as a song I heard loved and 'downloaded' back in the soundcloud days. I found the song and boy oh boy, whoever made it completely used only loops from the construction kit and published that song! I liked it back then and still do, but finding that it's something even I could've made was heart crushing. And I think that's why some despise the use of loops (especially when others do) because we expect that there'd be people disappointed in us.
Ignoring the intellectual property side of things it is just beautiful on its own that songs can get to be made, shared and reach the masses without collecting dust in someones online shop or folder. So hooray to loops/sampling for the consumer. We producers have to detach from our position as creaters when we look at others art. Just because they did infact use somehting not made by their genius or it didn't take them time, doesn't mean that they made something unique, because anybody else wouldve used those loops differently to arrange the song. Think of it as skrillex giving some kid his old projects and saying you can use these however you like and they actually end up completing old tracks, mixing and mastering them too. That in itself is deserving of credit no matter how much was preordained.
So let's be a bit more graceful :)
awesome response, thank you!
To add to this convo, sample producers - there are only FEW that are consistent
i agree, most of my fav producers nowadays dont use many samples
The only time i use splice is to test genres out that I haven't tried before. Then, 2 hours later, i just deleted the whole track, lol.
@@bullymaguire23 lol thats fair!
It's literally all about what sounds good to you. What you have and how you use it opposed to what you don't have is crucial to starting out as a producer. So as a beginner, if you take 5 loops from Splice or Looperman, throw them in a beat, and arrange them to your liking, that's your creativity speaking. About 2 months ago I made a beat with loops out of Arcade. The only section I made from scratch were the drums.
i agree 100%
I call that type of sampling from splice as mixing. I use splice but always try and mix it up, pitch, chop etc. 99% of the time i make my own beats as that’s what i enjoy but sometimes, i use a live bongo loop to fill the drums out.
its fine though dont worry about it. The best producers who are doing something different / original will always come through eventually and be seen as the best. All the other stuff just gets lost in time and filtered out and those people are also having fun so who cares really
and if people are gonna make loop shite and not do anything themselves it's their loss really tbh because theyre just tryna get famous or make money instead of actually doing something meaningful
i agree!
We went through the MCU era of rap in the mid 90s too, when all the pop rap records were just exact jacks of 70s R&B hits. You hit the nail on the head. It’s all been done before. During that exact same era, some of the best golden era hip hop was made that didn’t chart, and J Dilla was making tracks with the ummah.
great point! everything comes in cycles i suppose
My teacher always says that art only gives what you give it
very true!
my problem is not that they use sampled files, is the fact that the music itself is boring af, like for modern producers a transition is just muting the kick, snare or any other instrument and 5 secs later unmute everything and that's it, while a good transition is doing a gorgeous chord change or when the groove itself changes and that's how you make moments in music that makes you feel just great...
i think it all depends on the song, its all perspective!
@sleepfieldro definetly but let say in trap/reggaeton 99% of the time it's like that, wich is why i can't get why ppl like it so much... So damn repetitive
@@JinvorionSTG there are entire cultures of music and art based on one simple drum pattern, even if its not your taste i think its pretty undeniable!
@@sleepfieldro i mean, if we go to tribes is obviously understandable but this modern producers have everything to be unique and creative but is just getting worse and worse, this guys are going backwards...
Concise thoughts, for an apparently wicked controversial debate :o
haha seriously i didnt think this would be so controversial
the sweetest and kindest producer I've ever seen- must sub
haha thank you so much! im just being honest :)
Thanks!
thank you so much! i think this is the first superchat ive gotten, i really appreciate it!
It’s so easy to make something that’s listenable nowadays lol. I started in 2009 making dubstep and I would spend weeks making stuff. Now anyone can just get FL Studio, use their built in sample service and find some loops and arrange them and now you have made your first song. And that first song is going to sound like it could be played on the radio.
Only if you want to make bland and generic music tho. Modern dubstep artist are on a new level tbh but you have to dig hard to find them since the mainstream scene has become boring and bland.
Most producers I listen to nowdays barely hit 3k plays on their tracks lol
Always start with mindset " today I really want creating or crafting a good song "
If needed or to make more lively inspired , you can just use loops or whatever samples as a starting guide which you can erase latter .
If the final song lost the coolness or greatness simply because those loops/samples not in there anymore , that`s mean we need to going back to make adjustments with the song itself
@@morizanova good point! ive definitely used the method you mentioned many times
I always use splice to add some sauce to whatever I’ve made. Usually for vocas to chop and fit or sound fx
awesome! whatever works i say go for it
because a sample is already composed .. i like how you said you considered them two different art forms. i agree. both have their place, but i could see where it could be frustrating from a composition standpoint when many are getting success by sampling.
its all about perspective imo
I'm a vocal engineer. I could mix and master whatever but I like mixing voices. There's a real art to maximizing someone's voice. When I make music I don't use vocal presets. I just think it takes the fun out of mixing. I also can't use presets because I don't have anything to do that. I essentially mix my voice in a way that's purely fine tuned to the instrumental I am using. SO across all my songs I sound very different. But it works. Most people would prolly say my music is trash off first rip because that level of consistency isn't there even within the track itself but its not about the consistency its about what sounds good. I always approach music from a sound design perspective. If the sound fits, it fits. IMO way too many rappers force presets onto beats that like bro turn the auto tune down just a bit, let your voice blend into the mix more here and there, etc etc yes your voice will sound different but with the beat it goes so hard. The sound design goes hard. I don't know music theory either really beyond basics, I purely make music off what I hear.
Yk I went into this video thinking there was gunna be some extreme gatekeeping around producing given the title; but I actually agree with the majority of what you said, and am glad I stuck around to hear the entirety of what you had to say.
Especially when you said that part about 'it takes a while to get to a point where your music is something decent enough where you want to listen to it' which is why a lot of people rely on loops, or services like Splice to do a lot of the 'heavy lifting' in terms of curating samples. Generally speaking it kinda makes sense it would become mainstream for producers of all experience levels to use these services if you're just trying to get a project done in a relatively quick manner. It certainly is a lot easier than digging for a vinyl, recording that into something like audacity, importing it into a DAW; and then incorporating it into a song. And there's a lot of truth to what you said, at least from my own experience. I definitely relied on loops or sampling when I lacked gear/software or the experience to make what most people would define as 'proper music' (meaning made 100% from scratch). I was just working with a budget falling apart laptop, zero knowledge of music theory; and was tryna throw together a 'beat' for me and my friends to practice rapping to. However personally speaking; back then I would be too embarrassed to call myself a producer. Shoot even now that I'm at the point I have the gear and make songs my friends and I like to bump from scratch; I still struggle calling myself an 'artist' or 'producer' lmao. Idk just sounds too pretentious 🤷♂
But like you said tho to each their own! These people will always exist. It's better to accept these tools will exist to make our jobs easier as creators and were not meant to 'cheapen the arts' like people make it out to be. That being said, not all of these tools will be useful depending on how we want to create; but that's entirely up to the individual, and I agree we shouldn't gatekeep or come down on people who utilize or rely on these tools to create. Often times like we've addressed; these are tools used by people new to the game. So for that very reason we shouldn't be discouraging new artists from getting their feet wet. And even if they are 'veterans' and using Splice; more power to em. Obviously it's not viewed the same as composing/producing a song from the ground up; but so long as it sounds good, and everything is arranged nicely nobody should really care. People gotta stop tryna bring others down to seem higher; instead we should prop people up so we can all be greater. I wouldn't be making half decent beats if it wasn't for those tools that helped me bridge the gap between my will to create and my experience. It's what kept me from dropping out immediately cause you can still get decent results with relatively little experience and that encouraged me to keep going. And while I don't use Splice I do still sample on occasion, and bought of plugin/same libraries; so in a sense what I do isn't so different! I love just anything related to music! I don't mind making a remix, rapping over a loop, or making a track people don't consider 'real music' if it's for a project I'm passionate about. Just create to create.
Edit: swapped the word 'producer' for 'creator' to be more apt.
I have this one track I made where the main sample was this splice loop. I altered that sum bish so much that I completely forgot what the original sample was when I wanted to recall something
hell yeah! for the most part, i also prefer to alter a sample to the point its not immediately recognizable
@@sleepfieldroI’m glad you replied. Reminded me to subscribe!
I can hear it in his voice; he really wants to just say “IF YOU DONT PLAY AN INSTRUMENT, YOURE AN INFERIOR” 😂
I think the loop sampling feels more like a trend to me. There are still incredibly original and talented producers that are getting the songs they work to chart. (A.G Cook and Finneas come to mind). Though I see the concern, I can think of many charting pop songs from the 90s that used the same basic beat loops from Yamaha and Casio keyboards of the era, it’s just more obvious now because of the internet.
i agree!
What people don’t talk about is using a loop as a place holder to build a beat around it then taking the loop out and leaving the beat as is or changing the melody/rhythm where the loop originally was. 😅 helps with a “quick” workflow if you don’t know how to start with your own melody or drums or whatever
this is a great tactic! i actually talk about this technique a bit in my new video coming this sunday :)
I'm a musician and composer. I agree to a degree. Music has and always been what YOU create! Technology is a tool to express what you feel and hear in your head. I learn how to read and write music and played several instruments. But when the mac mini came out and Garageband loops! It save me time creating my drums. But that's it! Everything else I play! Anybody can use loops. But can they do what DJ Shadow did with, "Endtroducing"?
ooo the DJ Shadow point is huge, really great perspective there!
0:02 I used to do that in 2016 September when I first started thinking I was doing something but I went and watch more videos and stuff I learn cause me I’m a musician at first and I got tired of replaying people music so I wanted to do my own shxt 🤘🏾💯😌and still doing it and you got a good point loop melo or drum kit, well I don’t used splice I used loop pack from friends or something or looperman back in the day end I feel more accomplished when I start from scratch it’s just a great feeling
yes id say loops from friends is muuuch better overall than splice etc
I used to have lots of great loops in my Vengeance sample packs and for a really long time I avoided using them until everyone forgot about it…
haha, strategic!
It might not be the most creative thing to do but there’s something to be said for being able to look at the bigger picture and know when two things will work well together. There’s so much grey area with producing/engineering overlap
I agree. That's basically arrangement
@@DanLaDue i agree!
The most fun thing about sampling for me is just mangling it totally beyond recognition, to be honest. Using a totally non musical sample and forcing it to be something tuneful is the most fun thing in the world.
i agree! chopping/streching samples is one of the most fun things you can do as a producer imo
5:50 is beatmaking hiphop & pop really the right place for you then?
i make lots of different styles of music but hip hop is by far my biggest influence
This is a more complex topic then most people realize given all the variables involved . My attitudes towards using loops have changed over the years , and with new tech and the crazy grey area's in copyright , it's messy at best in some cases . Good or bad I avoid any turmoil by playing all instruments myself these days . Love the vid . Thanks CAMCURSE
really good point, getting other artist's work involved in yours from a business perspective can get messy
It’s like homemade pasta and tomato sauce vs Barilla and Prego, both pastas, just depends how much time I got.
as an italian i love this analogy lol
“Leave it as is” is the key here..
it all depends on the song!
I think its mostly about fulfillment I don't get much fulfillment out of using a melody loop and throwing drums on it. But at the same time loops can be good for building community(collabs) and for mass production on the big stage. If your a big time producer and you need have a studio session with a artist that artist might play through multiple beats in a session so you would need to bring more beats with you which is why you'll need to ramp up producing with loops if you know you take a long time. For me personally how can I know if I'm progressing and getting better if I only use loops. I want to understand WHY the loop works and be able to implement that into my own beats.
As for sampling genres like hip hop house and drum and bass all got there starts from sampling. Its not really a black and white convo but going to the shop(or youtube) to find a record, listening to the whole thing for chops and then having to avoid the popular chops to make something unique is more fulfilling. It also can show off your personality as producer, it can show what you grew up listening to and what your interest are as a person. The sampling lines are more blurred though because you can call out hypocrisy on somethings. It is the same but it isn't the same at the same time if that makes sense.
also some people just dont got the money for all that equipment and plugins which also ties into the history of some genres. Its a nuanced conversation for sure.
yes, this is all great perspective!
Why would anyone make music for other producers lol. The people that don’t make music and just want to enjoy music is who you should be trying to aim for. Could care less if any producer hates the way I produce a song when x person who doesn’t do any production and just wants a song to enjoy ends up loving my song. The goal is to please people that just want to indulge in music they enjoy. This argument is so played out cause if a producer could see into the future and it said “if you use this splice loop in your song, you’ll become a massive hit” they would all use the loop 😂 99% of Sabrina Carpenter fans don’t care about a splice loop in her hit song let alone know what splice even is. Do you want to make music for the person that will stream it endlessly or appease your producer friend who will listen to it one time and never come back? All the hit rap songs just sample from old hit records. Splice is literally no different. Why stress myself about making a top loop from scratch that will sound like any other top loop that no one will even notice the difference? Just make the song good people, enjoy the process, and relish in the final product.
i think it all depends but i agree that i personally wouldnt want to produce music solely for other producers to hear. thanks for your response!
Admittedly I always stayed away from chopping samples or composing from scratch because I knew it would take a lot more brain power. Now that I understand basic music theory and educated my myself on sampling techniques my beats have elevated exponentially. We kind of live in an era where “trying” is seen as corny in away and it shows. I believe if more beat makers educated themselves on music theory and different sampling techniques instead of looping that would help
this is great perspective, and i think it also applies to rappers who rap over their own vocals and barely do live vocals at shows, they dont want to seem like they are trying or care cus then they are lame and corny
I make all my beats organically
@@AndreyEvermore hell yeah! id love to know what you define as "organic"
@@sleepfieldro like I make my sounds then play the melody on piano my music is on the channel I comment with
I don't care how other people make music or not. If the song sounds good then it sounds good. Personally, I think it's unimpressive and too easy to basically just rip any sample from anywhere and at most just just the speed or pitch, so I don't do that when I sample for a song that I legitimately care about making. But I don't let this take away from my appreciation of other music, because it doesn't matter how easy it was to make, if it sounds good it sounds good.
exactly! people should just make what they want and enjoy themselves imo
The question of a producer's skill and the finished product are separate but related. A skilled producer can make trash (see RZA Guitar Center demo) and a bad producer can throw his name on some shit that other people made and it can be a hit (DJ Khaled has made a career off this). If we separate this out, then we can get to the core question: what are you doing this for? A lot of people want to be producers because they like music, respect it as an art form, and want to make it. Those folks are not going to stick with stock loops and shit for long, they're going to want to learn. But for the folks who want to be producers because it can be profitable (looool) or put them close to famous people, they'll just do whatever it takes. Different aims, different approaches. Both a definitionally "producers," but I honestly wouldn't call both artists.
id argue that they are both still artists (i think) but other than that i agree!
Its all about how you flip samples
I dig this. Well said, man. Im a composer first, but I do enjoy making beats. It's a different artform...different skillset (with some overlap). I think most seasoned producers can discern quality, and most of the time, they can pick out if someone is using loops or not. Some of us nerds might even recognize the sample or pack if it hasnt been processed 😅...but at the end of the day, I say do what brings you joy...not everyone has time or willingness to go deep into it..some folks want a quick after work beat to chill or rap too....and i think beginning producers can learn alot by putting loops together...arrangement, developing ear... im not past starting out with loops for some inspiration... and certainly use reference tracks....especially if working on a sync project. They can be great song starters...but give credit where credit is due!
@@t.henricus9971 i couldnt have said it better myself!
I think he’s absolutely right in what he says. Working with loops, pre-made drums, and pre-mixed hi-hats takes away a lot of creativity. Using a drum machine, starting from scratch, drawing inspiration from sounds on records, like kicks or snares, and creating everything from A to Z is a real challenge. Not only does it take time, but you also need good machines and high-quality samplers to bring your ideas to life. It’s a much harder way to work, but that’s what real music production is about. That’s how a true composer or an authentic beatmaker is supposed to work.
Nowadays, people often settle for a keyboard, a mouse, and a screen. Using ready-made loops or pre-designed melodies doesn’t encourage creativity. You’re no longer really composing; you’re assembling pieces like a puzzle, trying to fit each part into its place.
That said, more and more producers are returning to drum machines, crafting their own kicks, snares, and hi-hats, and fully composing their tracks. They choose their own reverb, delay, distortion, and carefully add these elements to their productions. I understand that this approach takes time and money, but the result is much more original and creative than simply pasting loops from websites or using pre-made melodies.
I believe great days are ahead for beat-making because we’re seeing more and more people working with advanced machines and samplers, challenging themselves, innovating, and creating truly original sounds. It’s slowly but surely making a comeback.
One very important point I want to emphasize is that when everything becomes easy, when we always choose convenience without putting in effort or thought, everything ends up sounding the same. All music starts to have the same color. When you listen to certain songs on streaming platforms, you can immediately tell: “Oh, that melody came from this website.” That’s where the difference lies: an unrecognizable, unique piece of music is one that required time and effort. On the other hand, a track that’s instantly recognizable for its simplicity is often based on pre-made elements.
i think this is all great perspective! id argue you can "compose" your beats with nothing but a computer, such as clicking in midi roll etc
the thing we have to talk about actually is how ur camera moves so smoothly to track your face
lol its an AI tracking webcam
i dont make music but this pertains to so much other stuff. we all rely on other people to do everything. if we all made everything from scratch like from literal ground zero nothing would get done. you could say just using a computer to make art is cheating so you need to make your own from metal ore
exactly! im glad you appreciated the video
out of the 1000 or so projects ive started i cant say i have ever used no cheesy ass loops. twice maybe. always considered it cheating. to each their own, but i like building the beat from scratch, Ive been creating beats for 10-12 years. I just started making ones that reach my own standards. which i set impossibly high for myself. Its way more gratifying tho. its like recieving a message from god that you get to share, All them corny loops sound generic and souless imo
i agree, i think most artists will get a much deeper gratification making as much themselves as they can
Music makers can argue that recording something into a hardware sequencer and playing live is not equal to editing loop tracks into a song, but the audience isn’t concerned with the process.
@@itsgbox92 i agree 100%! as long as the song is good thats really all that matters at the end of the day
I would say this is a bit ignorant. Some of those in the audience do care, and other creators can be part of that audience too. It's not just about the final product is it, there's a lot that can come from one single piece of work. New ideas, techniques, visions, creative changes, unique directions that inform more than just the simple listening of a song.
If the audience didn't care how music was made at all, we would never have any population interested enough to make music in the first place.
Hip Hop at it's core is about DJ culture. We don't sample out of ignorance, or a lack of knowledge of how to create original compositions. We use samples because that's how Hip Hop is made. We flip something that someone has made and create something new. That's Hip Hop!
I agree. On my channel I use an MPC X, Daw and as much hardware as I have room for. Always trying to create or mx up some sounds to take them out of thier original form before I go in. Sometimes I loop stuff but usually only when it asks for it. Keep it Original
yes, originality is key for sure!
I'll be the first to admit that I sometimes have the hardest time making beats because I'd be so stuck on everything having to be so original.
ive had this same problem!
Literally no different from what I was doing in Dance eJay 20 years ago 🤣
lmaoo hell yeah
it really depends what you used with the loops because its a tool, if you only put a loop over a drum loop too and called it a day. Your not a producer, your just subjectively a producer by releasing songs that were not made by you but you uploaded it. Real beat makers make it from scratch or team work with other producers who you can talk to and change the melody but if ur using loops online you cant take the stems from it and change it, so your not a producer who did the actual work of whats memorable of a song from a listener ears
If the one that uses loops from other artists knows how to use and arrange that very sample in his own project and that it has meaning, values and the message is understood, then there is no need to be mad at that since the person understood one fundamental of musique! For me music isn't about getting from one point to another or just making sick beats, it's about making the listener understand the message behind the song and making them feel the right feelings & emotions that was firstly intended by you (your own message). A kid that says: WOW, sick beat, W beat, sick flow, cool or even fire🔥🔥, to me those listeners aren't feeling anything particularly nor understanding anything but rather relating to their fav artists that have similar flows! There isn't anything true & deep anymore but just meaningless excitement that lasts a few seconds. I WANT MUSIC TO BE REVIVED AS IT USED TO BE BEFORE!!
RUclips is orders of magnitude more vast and has more obscure things than your local record store. You could also sample things other than songs from RUclips, news broadcasts, documentaries, memes, not to mention unsigned artists who never even made it enough to have anything IN a record store, even musicians doing tutorials or covers online. Empirically more obscure, interesting and diverse than your local crate
good point! id argue the opposite too though - there are sooo many weird records, cassettes, vhs tapes etc thats ive found out in the world that dont exist anywhere on the internet. its all about what you prefer to do imo
I'd say I appreciate original music more than sampled music for the most part. It usually takes more effort and creativity to produce original music. Though sampled music has a wide range of complexity and difficulty, like you said. Its almost like photoshopping existing media with templates vs creating your own media from scratch in graphic design.
yeah exactly! like making a collage vs a painting
I strive to make everything myself when it comes to grooves, percussion, arrangement, etc.
I think if a producer uses loops here and there because they just fit exactly what they’re looking for, that’s okay. They had the vision & they’re just using what’s at their disposal.
Most of being an artist/producer is having a vision and creating that vision. I don’t think using loops here & there changes that. Maybe if you only use loops and strictly follow templates then I would say that’s not really art.
im so lost as to why this continues to be a debate in music. interpolation and sampling can themselves be an artform. i wouldnt call myself a producer but i have started to get into it from a classical composition background and am someone who loves hiphop.
the new kendrick album exibited great examples of sampling. luther comes to mind for me as a way you take a sample and make a completely completely new song. and imagine the song without the sample??? part of the art is selecting the sample, and then hearing something new from it entirely, or using it as is but to create a new message out of it e.g. tupac changes, kanye through the wire, jpegmafia i'll be right there
i love the way mfdoom samples in his beats as well. perfect example of how you can stack samples, and take snippets here and there, create new drum loops out of them, alter the melodies. i dont see why the same logic cant be applied with loops more generally.
to me it seems pretentious and about purity. in classical music we sometimes reference famous progressions, melodies, intervals, to create a message out of or as an homage. e.g. ave maria's chord progression just being bach's prelude in C.
there's nothing unoriginal or uncreative of hearing something as it exists, and then somehow creating something entitely different through it. that to me takes a lot of creativity. and back in the day u could try making samples unrecogniseable because of copyright as well and so you end up with some crazy different and unique outcomes from the OG product. and that's so exiting. reimagination requires imagination, period.
yes things changed, and the art got a bit lazy (looking at pdiddy for that one), but that doesnt mean it can never be creative and artsy ever again, and we still see to this day new music being created with gorgeous uses of sampling. personally as a composer i thought composing from scratch would be my preferred way into producing but i have such an appreciation for how sampling has been done in the past that i think i'll challenge myself to be "lazy" and put in the effort to make a sample nearly unrecognisable, because i think that's a valued art form in of itself and always fun to make music from a little prompt.
thank you for this response! lots of good info in here
im using a budget 8 track software to make ambient/vaporwave/ dark music, and this is nice and refreshing, motivating to keep making tru compositions. cheers.
that sounds awesome! glad you enjoyed the video
I used to feel this way, but tbh what good does it do to judge others. We’re all on our own journey. Plus it’s hard to sound unique and have “your sound” when you’re just ripping 3-4 samples from splice and using them as is. If you can make a successful long-term career off of that, then honestly, I’d be impressed. 😂
for real! to each their own i suppose
Dj Premiere has been doing this for generations. Taking loops and combining them. It’s your ear that makes it
Nah he chops most his samples or scratches them if they ain't long enough like in 10 crack Commandments one of the few beats of his that loop is the track insp-her-ation
Yeah no. Go watch a Preemo sample breakdown.
Im in the digital artwork world and let me tell you.
Creators hate each other in that world too… photobashing (taking pictures and mashing them to make new pieces) and tracing is widely unaccepted but some of the most popular artists do that including industry pros for fighting game artwork in the 90s up until today.
Its crazy that when they find out your process they get upset.
Music is the same way. It’s all dope until they find out its a loop.
I think creators just hate each other
My problem with loops is how many hours do I have to scroll trough loops to find what I want and why I just don't make it myself because it's my vision of what it should be like and it's easier to just make the loop than surch for something that may be close. And yes, sometimes it takes minutes and sometimes takes hours to make the loop sound okey.
YES exactly how I feel about these “artists” that just use sound packs and don’t actually go through the hard but exciting work to make your own interesting type beat which has never been heard before! That is exciting! Listening to these up and coming “producers” that get big way too quick especially off of Tik Tok is the definition of hype. But yeah man !
Yeah all facts honestly. 95% of my beats don't use samples, and I always try to chop up any splice samples I use, but for people trying to sell beats at any cost to rappers, they (the rappers) definitely don't care as long as it sounds good and makes them want to buy it. A sale is a sale.
But yeah those pre cooked Build-a-Beat Workshop loop "packs" on splice where all the elements fit together like legos are very lame. Got kids that have NOT put the work in thinking they're Kanye, when all they basically did is take another producer's stems from a beat and...turn it back into the same fking beat lol. Zero creativity with that.
Then again I mostly use (but still modify) synth presets and pre processed drum hit samples, so the synth sound design wizards and acoustic drum set playing producers probably think I'm sacrilegious. We can't all be Tame Impala. There's always gonna be gatekeepers at every level. Great points though.