Getting an engineers perspective on these types of upgrades is rare in the RUclips world. Keep up the good work and hope to see many more videos from you!
I been saying this forever. We LOVE our KDSS. It's basically zero sway bar off road and an amazingly thick swaybar on road. Car on road, truck off road. KDSS is a gamechanger...love it!! The refinements of the GX and LX are no joke or gimmick...
Most underrated Toyota channel HANDS DOWN. I wish I saw this before I made my purchase 4 years ago. I remember dealing with a buddies KDSS and being very curious about the system.
As an owner of a KDSS vehicle this was by far the best explanation and comparison I've heard of how the system works and how it compares to non-KDSS vehicles. Nice job!
Man your content is incredible. Easily the most knowledge-dense videos on the subject. I frequently have to pause and even rewind just to digest what you said, even though your presentation is clear and thorough. I love it. Thank you so much for not only explaining but SHOWING and often PROVING your points. Thanks for making these!
Please, Please, Please don't ever stop making videos!!! By FARRRR the best off-road videos out there when talking about performance. Thank you for your time, information sharing, and love for the sport and the science contained within.
Yep, love the KDSS… had a chance to compare the ride dynamics in technical off-roading between my 2015 TRD Pro 4R and my brothers 2016 Trail/Off-road 4R with KDSS… definitely noticeable. It really works well. This is a terrific and thorough video with valuable data points. Really great work here. Thanks for the many hours of testing and video production.
This page has been so helpful. I bought a 4runner without knowing it was kdss. I spent so much time thinking I was stuck with something I didn’t want. Thank you!
YES!! Good choice. That's my dream modern 4Runner and will remain after they build the next gen on the latest gen Tacoma chassis with a less reliable engine.
Your videos have been amazing. I opted for KDSS when I got my 4Runner and for a while had buyers remorse thinking that it would prevent me from adding lift. I was able to lift the front by 2.5 in with no problems. This video shows that I made the right choice and your other videos helped me understand the Toyota suspension much more. Reconnecting the KDSS sway bar after shock install was a pain, though. Keep this kind of content coming.
@@skoolynugenator1802 2021 Venture Edition. Probably like yours with a roof rack. 1 inch lift in the back. It took all the rake out. After adding 275 tires I'm going to drop the front by .5 inches to get some rake back.
@@skoolynugenator1802 yes. I needed to "mold" the mudflap plastic closer to the body mount. I'm running Falken Wildpeak AT3Ws C-load on 17x8 rims with +5mm offset. I could have put the tires on my 17x7 stock wheels but was planning to get 285 tires before the tire shop talked me out of them. They had a recent 4runner that wanted them too and they could not make them work w/o excessive rubbing. 285s would have been a problem and the 275s look great. More rugged than stock but not excessively large. Also less additional stress on the drive train.
Wow, you answered every other possible question that would've developed in days of research, and turned i to just a couple of mins of ultra packed straight to the point content and Info. You're a gentleman and a scholar. CHEERS!
I'm glad I found this video. I've been looking into buying a new 4runner and the only stumbling block has been whether or not to get KDSS. Your video clarifies all the questions I had about it. Thanks!
Love the detail of your work! we need more people like you in the community willing to put in this amount of effort just for the betterment of us all :D
Having recently purchased a ‘17 GX460 and having not previously experienced the KDSS system, I 100% believe it’s worth it! It’s absolutely amazing how well the vehicle handles vs our 4runner or even our sequoia with independent rear suspension! The larger sway bars yet supple ride is amazing!
Thank you Kai for these great videos. I have KDSS on my 4runner and I'm happy with the system. I do overlanding and up to moderate trails. No desert racing, no crazy rock crawling. 4runner is a 2018 TRD Offroad and has a 2.5"/3" OME lift, and spacers on the rear sway bar.
I have now watched all of your videos they are outstanding please post more. I'm also an engineer and a RUclipsr and it's very rare to find somebody who tries to take the opinion out and give you just the facts. Learned a lot from your videos going to try to make mine more organized LOL
The KDSS ride *is* jarring at highspeed off-road, espcially on wash-boards. I just installed the KDSS on/off switch from DR KDSS and it has made a huge improvement in that regard.
I wouldn't thing the sway bar, whether KDSS or not, would have any impact on washboard ride quality, since on washboard bumps both wheels are moving up and down at the same time.
@@stevecarlson2346 you'd be mistaken. Washboards aren't even all the way across the road. Often they are only in the path of one side of the car or in curves where one side of the car travels further than the other.
Most excellent information and appreciate your research and sharing. I was able to find a 2024 4Runner OR-P for my needs. Daily driver and yet off-roader for fishing trips, photography and exploring interesting off the path places. I was initially not going to go with the KDSS, but as there were only two '24 4R available in my area I did not really have a choice as it was on the only TRD OR-P they had. How mistaken I was! My 4R is amazingly smooth and comfortable on the pavement, tracks effortlessly on the interstate AND gets me well off-road and back home without breaking a sweat! I'll be heading to Montana and Utah this fall and look forward to getting deep in the "road less traveled" and back again! KDSS has been a very positive addition (IMHO) to my 4R suspension!
KDSS is a pretty cool system for a daily driver that also goes off road. I'm looking into the DrKDSS type switches for my GX as I feel like there are certain trails where the 12mph threshold for soft/stiff is just a little slow. You want to go 15, but instead go 11. There are also more prepared dirt/gravel roads where KDSS shines. It's not a Raptor, but can maintain quite a bit of speed without feeling sketchy. The only other thing is just making sure your aftermarket parts like skid plates, sliders, and lifts don't cause interference with the sway bars. Tons of companies have these parts now.
When watching shade tree mechanics install lifts on kdss equipped vehicles many of them don’t know to loosen both valves under the drivers door side of frame and mark original setting with a wax pencil. It allows the swaybars to move around more freely. After lift is installed lower wheels back on ground, turn valves back to original setting. Also KDSS vehicles will develop what’s called “Kdss Lean” over a lot of miles. This is also fixable by practicing the same principles of loosening the valves, and measuring the lean and putting the same height wood block under the one wheel once you lower the vehicle back down, then just tighten the valves and your back level.
I don't know crap about off road stuff and i haven't even finished this full video but I love the way you lay out information and show examples and overlays and I sure love Toyotas. I want to see more content like this.
I can appreciate your in-depth analysis and how you present it all. Coming from 3 Toyotas without KDSS to my current truck with KDSS, you've confirme what I've thought about this setup. Thanks!
I'm a total noob to 4Runners, off-roading, 4WD and all of this. BUT I think I'm happy with my choice of 2018 4Runner ORP as my daily driver, family "daddy-mobile," and (hopefully) long-distance road tripper. Main Use-Cases are all-weather driving in the mountains of New Mexico (including rain, snow), frequent fire trails, forest service roads, and light off-roading, and frequent 2.5-hour highway commuting between two towns. I love being able to load up whatever I want - family, synthesizers, camping gear... and go at any speed, in comfort and style, on any terrain other than "serious-to-extreme" off-roading. My next goal is to upgrade my tires to something a LITTLE more suitable for offroad & dirt, without giving up too much for the long highway commutes. All this to say, I absolutely LOVE my KDSS-equipped 4Runner and I believe I picked the perfect dream vehicle for myself at this point in my life! So happy with it! Thanks for this great and highly-informative video... as a noob it helps me get my head around the strengths and weaknesses of my beloved truck.
i disconnected front sway bar in my citroen c5 for better comfort. Couldn't be happier. And factory suspesion setup is so much understeer that without front one it achieves very fun balance of oversteer and understeer. Highway driving isn't an issue at all. On gravel its hhealthy and controllable oversteering which is super fun with FWD, because you can control amount of oversteer with gas ;
Absolutely wonderful video. I'm happy to see other people understanding and explaining real wheel travel and what KDSS actually does. They make an electric shut out switch that allows you to keep the KDSS valves open or closed at any speed you want with a push of a button. Its wonderful.
Thanks! The switch can only overwrite-open the valves, not overwrite-close the valves. This is achieved by faking a fault signal in KDSS so the ECU goes in fail safe mode (valves open), which is why the KDSS dash light comes on.
For those without KDSS, definitely worth giving removing the sway bar altogether a try. The stock sway bar isn’t very stiff, not a huge difference with and without it.
I own a 2017 4runner trd off-road. KDSS hasn't done me wrong. My T4R handles great in windy roads, good on long drives. Never let me down while off-roading either. But, I don't do any extreme off-roading and I also don't only do light off-roading. Love my 4runner!
I stumbled on your videos at 9am, am super glued to them.Its 4pm now. I have Gx470 and this information is gold. I love my KDSS. It's very effective on cornering in the mountains.
your videos have been nothing short of awesome, please keep up the good work! i would love for you to be able to dispel or confirm the KDSS myths about how much lift can be installed vs inducing KDSS lean from the lift kits. curious if you could dive into that one of these days? also you brought up the front KDSS spacer for the front passenger side, and honestly, i don't know if it would ever be needed for a mid travel lift. hope you can get your hands on one to test and compare. JB
Love your videos! Consistently high quality and while informative you remain open minded and help us understand that one option is not good for all. I love that approach.
Sounds like KDSS is the one for me now. I want a 3 inch lift with 33’s and do decently hard rock crawling and camping. But I also want it to be comfortable on the way to the trails and trips. Thank you for your well conveyed education
Good video! Thank you for all of the hard work and detailed analysis. I really love the KDSS system. It suits our 95% on-highway driving by keeping the truck driving flat thru corners and abrupt maneuvers, even while loaded down with camping gear (evading a homeless guy taking swings at cars in the road with a bat).
This is some really great analytics here. I’ve got a ‘12 GX460, 1.75” spacers with stock struts and 2” Icon springs with stock shocks. A lot of people asked me why I did this. Because of the math! My GX has KDSS, which most people think is a limiting factor. But here’s proof right here. Limiting yes, if you wanted to lift it 6” but I find. With my setup, full wheel droop and my articulation is better than if I had a swaybar. Great video!
Great information as always! I will agree that for me, long drives are no fun without the sway bar. The ride feels smoother without it due to each side working independently, and the flex is great, but the sway during long drives and even heavy winds make me hate the trip of trying to stay in my lane. Would be nice if there was a quick disconnect kit out there.
I’d agree with many here. I have a trail 4Runner with KDSS, armoured and heavy, and it is amazingly level on road in the corners, even when pulling a trailer. The beefy sway bars work very well but have the benefit of being disconnected. I do wish I could override the system though to try different things. Aside from that. Zero complaints, even when forums, etc tend to favour not having the system. Oh! Only issue I have is working the front end with the added connections. I sometime struggle with those being under tension/compression and getting it bolted up.
@@walterramirez3287 i have 2020 4 runner lifted 2 inch front and back and no issue , not even once my sway bar KDSS touched anything , but i am not happy , i wish i just lifted one inch, because lift , FK-UP everything , people does many things so do it .
@@walterramirez3287 i will give you answer , you can put without modification 275/70/17 tire size but if you want to go 285/70/17 you will get rubbing , also depend on alignment , but you must go 3 inch lift for 285 tire , with 3 inch lift you must need to extend break line pipes , , diff drop + skid plate bolts replacement , along with rear panhard rod alignment ( no one does) , and you will loss ride quality , you get lift by Harding the spring , these vehicles not build for rock curling , just for off road , no one will tell , until you experience by your own , one inch lift is better ,by putting better shocks and springs but Max 2 inch lift , base on my experience . best of luck ✌
I will be in the market soon for a Toyota 4Runner and the fact that KDSS makes the car feel better ONROAD is convincing me to pay the premium for the right truck.
Thanks for this vid, I appreciate the work you put into creating these videos. I understood that that KDSS helps with onroad suspension stability but never really understood it (if that makes sense lol). Watching this helped understand the purpose for it on and offroad.
Yes I want KDSS! My Jeep has the worst body roll, so much so I'm going back to the 4Runner. I'm just learning about KDSS. Now that I understand it, I absolutely want it. Thank you for the lessons
Wow, impressive detail research. You should get an award. We recently got a 4Runner with KDSS. Hope to do some long travel, e.g, East Coast to West Coast, and explore some off-road adventure. So far the roughest thing we have done so far is drive over icy lumps from where the snow melt and freezes. It is a bumpy ride. I imagine that could be what it would be like going offroad. I could watch your video again as it's fascinating. However, I have limited CPU power at my age to grasp all the new info that you were dumping out there. Any case, any suggestions what we could do, if anything, to make our offroad driving smoother. We are not planning on doing any hardcore rock rawling, but would like to go offroad. Thank you again for sharing. I will need to revisit this video and see what else i CAN pickup. Subscribed. God Bless and stay safe.
You did a great job with this video. I had no idea what KDSS was but I kept seeing it on the Lexus GX460 forums (I recently purchased a 2013 GX460 Premium with KDSS). This was very enlightening!!!
Well done and very clear. We are buying a new 4Runner in the coming days and was against KDSS until I watched this. I think it will work better for us than non-KDSS with what we do.
Well done young man. I get tired of explaining to Trd pro people why my kdss 4runner outperforms them with a 2 inch lift and shock, tire upgrade. Not to mention the huge road handling benefits. It’s humbling for them to realize they overspent by $10k+ for the trd pro badge + modifications. That all said it depends on your requirements. My experience with most offroad people is they are 90% mall getters. I needed my setup for work as I work oil and gas and abuse this system daily. My 2 cents your mileage may vary.
yeah I couldnt justify the extra 10K for cosmetic changes, suspension upgrade and other features. seemed unnecessary and you can pick out your own suspension upgrades/wheels with the money you dont spend on the trd pro. maybe some people like that but not for me.
The TRD Pro moniker adds a number of nice upgrades not to mention that over the pandemic the value almost doubled on just the TRD Pros. So I am sure 10k for the Trd pro was not really a big deal to the people who own em...
@@Hotel_soap exactly and better components as well.. The TRD Pro is a marketing gimmick designed to separate your money from wallet when you can build a new better off-roader for the same $ or less.
@@michaeldbhawker3556 To each there own i guess... To be honest it makes no sense to buy a new vehicle to off road. Anyone buying a new 4runner to do serious off roading is nuts or is so loaded they don't care. Calling anybody a mall queen is crazy unless your 4runner never leaves the trail.
The KDSS in the Lexus GX has the electronics in it, but in contrast, the KDSS in the 200 Series Cruiser is completely devoid of any electronics. So it does not have the valves which open up to the accumulators. There are no accumulators in the 200 Series KDSS system. This may mean that the 200 Series Land Cruiser may well keep the vehicle more level a very sideways lean, rather than the KDSS in the Lexus GX.
@@jamak919nc Sorry I don't know whether the Toyota 4Runner has electronically controlled KDSS or if it's a purely hydraulic system like it is on the 200 Series with conventional coil springs. In some markets (e.g. UK) the 200 Series can be equipped with AHC (height adjustable suspension) and it uses a very different system to the hydraulic KDSS.
We've got the ability to disable the KDSS by inserting a switch on one ground wire. This would allow it to work at higher than 12 mph speeds (where the stock system locks it back) which many think would be useful on some trails. More likely it should be activated again at around 22 mph as much above that might give less desirable results in handling.
@@TinkerersAdventure but the way you are saying as it’s a true disconnect it is not. Trust me I do high speed cornering in baja with the kdss deactivated with the switch and the sway bar is still there. The shock in the kdss will run out of travel and that’s when the high spring rate sway bar kicks in more. You are still dealing with the sway bar trying to twist. It’s just less active then when in stock mode.
Wow, thanks for these vids! I have a 2016 4runner with KDSS and the amount of marketing crap is astronomical. Between this one and your UCA vids 99% of my questions just melted away! Subscribed!
Great video man. Top to bottom. Lots of great information, presented with excellent footage showing the articulation you speak of on multiple vehicles. Clear graphs. No bullshit. Thank you.
I used to own a 14 trail 4runner. With kdss my buddies all called it crap and were tearing it out of their rings. I kept mine in and was able to go many of the places they went. That's up here in the PNW so it's saying something you just let me know I was right all along lol. I'll send them all the link! I did go back to a 2010 fj had 1 before but it was totaled not my fault. The 4runner didn't have the head or leg room so I bought another fj 2010 all white like yours. Hard to find when your looking for one. So glad to be back in it it's been 2 years now and I won't be giving it up anytime soon.
At 1st I was thinking this dude about to give the most stuck in his old ways biased opinions of KDSS, but happily you actually showed a lot of worth while down to the meat & potatoes in depth testing that was necessary to do this sort of comparison true justice, even if the conclusion would've been that KDSS was a waste(which it wasn't)you did this topic right, and visualised a lot of this information as a solid resource for those who don't just want to hear about theory but see actual results Earned yourself a subscribe there bud
Excellent work, thanks for such a concise and thorough breakdown. Another consideration is a KDSS solenoid switch, which you can use during high-speed offroading to reduce the jarring suspension. I will be adding one to my setup. Otherwise, concur with your assessments, I have a GX470 with KDSS + 2" lift and 33" tires. Front and rear KDSS spacers are a must.
Explained very well and backed by facts. Too bad most car journalists do not go to engineering school. I just got a Landcruiser Prado 150 with KDSS, and I am glad. I can be costly if it breaks, but it is rare. Otherwise for my use case.. lots of highway driving until I get to the off road part, it is great. I love the channel, thank you for the time and effort to do all this tests, few people know how difficult the logistics behind them is. I really appreciate the work you put in.
Bro, your content is so well done. I've got a 1st gen Sequoia on 35s and had to sort out everything but damn you are doing such a good job explaining everything I would have struggled at. Well done.
There is a way to have KDSS soft above 12mph, it's a product made by Dr KDSS for higher speed off road, he also has the TC KDSS LC up front and spacers.
We have the Prado here in Australia (a far better version of the Lexis you guys get) and we deliberately hunted down a Kakadu model just for KDSS. On the slow stuff here its amazing, but also gives better on road, which carrying the family was important. Kdss was developed here in Australia, so has been pretty much tested to hell and back. Only issue I ever have is some accessories don't fit KDSS models.
I love this research based approach to information. Also great to know regarding KDSS. Only thing I would challenge is regarding off camber and the sway bar, in that it's only better if your vehicle doesn't have to articulate. If you have to drop into the off camber section on an angle then you're probably better off without it. At least that has been my experience.
Thanks! I see what you mean here and I agree with what you described. I did encounter many situations where I need to go up on to a side bank to avoid deep wash out or a tree. So not so much as "dropping into" a ditch.
Great video! Glad to hear that KDSS actually does work similar to a quick disconnect, but I have also seen one of those KDSS shafts come out of the piston on the trails in Moab, so though it may work, it also adds another point of failure unfortunately, and it costs an arm and a leg to repair!
the shaft came out of the piston because the person most likely lifted their vehicle. The stock piston is only so long. The failure was the lift... left at stock height or small lift KDSS will be fine. We ubuse our GX460 and we love KDSS ❤️
Thanks! Ouch, that is bad. yeah those things are more expensive than a fancy shock. Was that a rear KDSS shaft got pulled out? Was he running long travel rear shocks?
Very insightful, I have owned KDSS and non KDSS 4runners... KDSS handles great for general overlanding trips, not so much on technical, higher roll, articulating terrain, especially if you are top heavy. Still, every man has their needs and you can never go wrong with it. but I would rather save on the dealer $1,500 and use it towards a more comprehensive suspension upgrade.
Thanks for the great review of the KDSS on the GX. I have one and I really enjoy the ride quality although I do only light off-roading. I enjoy your technical, objectiv off-road techncial reviews. I think they are way above par...
For off camber stability: there is a kit where you can turn the solenoid valves off manually so you can disable KDSS at higher speeds, or lock the KDSS at lower speeds.
can you send me the link to that kit? if you're referring to dr.kdss, it can only disable KDSS at higher speeds. it does not lock the KDSS at lower speeds
Wait until you guys see the next part coming out after these clamps to keep the sway bar in check. The part after that will allow for the sway bar to sit up nice and high because no drop spacer but will allow for full droops and fox another issue which I can’t mention as it will give it away 🥰
Great video, I have a 2014 GX460 and enjoy the articulation off road and good handling on road with the KDSS. I have a 2 inch lift with 32" tires I think it's the ideal setup for me. Now I just need to do something about the approach angle!
good indepth video on both sytems, I have a 2016 trail 4runner with KDSS and i love the ability it give's me both on road and of road, I also think it does'nt get the recognition that the TRD pro get's, other than a slight increase in hight,different shock's and badging the trail now called TRD off road would be a better sytem in the long run with the KDSS, Just my opinion.
I believe the main contributing to the difference between the 4R vs GX results at 6:21 is the GX's higher CofG. That moment arm would definitely cause additional lean. This is despite its narrower wheel track compared to the 4Runner. The FJ Cruiser however has both a lower CofG but also a wider wheel track, which means a lower moment arm from the reference poi t of its CofG.
just ordered the LC300 GR sport with EKDSS. very happy I did now after watching your video as much of my use will be long distant touring in australia.
Thank you. I really like the LC300. Congrats on the purchase. I wish the US had LC300. The LX600 and the new sequoia have the same platform, but both are missing the E-KDSS.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
Getting an engineers perspective on these types of upgrades is rare in the RUclips world. Keep up the good work and hope to see many more videos from you!
I been saying this forever. We LOVE our KDSS. It's basically zero sway bar off road and an amazingly thick swaybar on road. Car on road, truck off road. KDSS is a gamechanger...love it!! The refinements of the GX and LX are no joke or gimmick...
Lx does not have kdss, only the 200 series land cruiser does. The LX has hydraulic shocks
@@tr0nix1 Lexus LX570 has KDSS standard. KDSS has nothing to do with shocks.
@@tr0nix1 semantics! lol same end result on either KDSS or AVS...
@GX460 OFF-ROAD there are no semantics. Just facts. LX570s only with traditional sway bars here in the USA. No KDSS.
We currently own a 200 series Land Cruiser and are very familiar with LX570. The US spec LC uses KDSS while the LX does not.
Most underrated Toyota channel HANDS DOWN. I wish I saw this before I made my purchase 4 years ago. I remember dealing with a buddies KDSS and being very curious about the system.
As an owner of a KDSS vehicle this was by far the best explanation and comparison I've heard of how the system works and how it compares to non-KDSS vehicles. Nice job!
Man your content is incredible. Easily the most knowledge-dense videos on the subject. I frequently have to pause and even rewind just to digest what you said, even though your presentation is clear and thorough. I love it. Thank you so much for not only explaining but SHOWING and often PROVING your points. Thanks for making these!
Please, Please, Please don't ever stop making videos!!!
By FARRRR the best off-road videos out there when talking about performance.
Thank you for your time, information sharing, and love for the sport and the science contained within.
Yep, love the KDSS… had a chance to compare the ride dynamics in technical off-roading between my 2015 TRD Pro 4R and my brothers 2016 Trail/Off-road 4R with KDSS… definitely noticeable. It really works well. This is a terrific and thorough video with valuable data points. Really great work here. Thanks for the many hours of testing and video production.
I've learned a lot about Toyota IFS since coming across your channel. Keep up the good work!
This page has been so helpful. I bought a 4runner without knowing it was kdss. I spent so much time thinking I was stuck with something I didn’t want. Thank you!
❤ Thank you!! I want to get a 2024 4Runner, but couldn't decide between the ORP or the Pro, now I know I want KDSS, so ORP it is for me 😊
YES!! Good choice. That's my dream modern 4Runner and will remain after they build the next gen on the latest gen Tacoma chassis with a less reliable engine.
Your videos have been amazing. I opted for KDSS when I got my 4Runner and for a while had buyers remorse thinking that it would prevent me from adding lift. I was able to lift the front by 2.5 in with no problems. This video shows that I made the right choice and your other videos helped me understand the Toyota suspension much more. Reconnecting the KDSS sway bar after shock install was a pain, though. Keep this kind of content coming.
I ordered an Off-Road Premium with KDSS. What lift did you get and do you like it? How much on the back?
@@skoolynugenator1802 2021 Venture Edition. Probably like yours with a roof rack. 1 inch lift in the back. It took all the rake out. After adding 275 tires I'm going to drop the front by .5 inches to get some rake back.
@@kaitroester7386 any rubbing with the 275’s?
@@skoolynugenator1802 yes. I needed to "mold" the mudflap plastic closer to the body mount. I'm running Falken Wildpeak AT3Ws C-load on 17x8 rims with +5mm offset. I could have put the tires on my 17x7 stock wheels but was planning to get 285 tires before the tire shop talked me out of them. They had a recent 4runner that wanted them too and they could not make them work w/o excessive rubbing. 285s would have been a problem and the 275s look great. More rugged than stock but not excessively large. Also less additional stress on the drive train.
Wow, you answered every other possible question that would've developed in days of research, and turned i to just a couple of mins of ultra packed straight to the point content and Info. You're a gentleman and a scholar. CHEERS!
I'm glad I found this video. I've been looking into buying a new 4runner and the only stumbling block has been whether or not to get KDSS. Your video clarifies all the questions I had about it. Thanks!
Love the detail of your work! we need more people like you in the community willing to put in this amount of effort just for the betterment of us all :D
By far the most thorough tests I’ve seen online. Awesome stuff.
Love the attention to detail and thorough explanations of your testing
I chose the OF instead of PRO solely because I wanted KDSS, glad I did. Very nice vid by the way!
Having recently purchased a ‘17 GX460 and having not previously experienced the KDSS system, I 100% believe it’s worth it! It’s absolutely amazing how well the vehicle handles vs our 4runner or even our sequoia with independent rear suspension! The larger sway bars yet supple ride is amazing!
Thank you Kai for these great videos. I have KDSS on my 4runner and I'm happy with the system. I do overlanding and up to moderate trails. No desert racing, no crazy rock crawling. 4runner is a 2018 TRD Offroad and has a 2.5"/3" OME lift, and spacers on the rear sway bar.
Nice set up, I got a 21 TRD off road with lift. I haven’t gotten the spacer for the rear quite yet. Im at 2.75 in front and 1 in rear
sounds exactly like what i want to do with a 4runner, jealous!
Mech E here, great video dude! We need more engineers making videos like this to provide thorough explanations and test sets. Keep up the good work!
I have now watched all of your videos they are outstanding please post more. I'm also an engineer and a RUclipsr and it's very rare to find somebody who tries to take the opinion out and give you just the facts. Learned a lot from your videos going to try to make mine more organized LOL
Thanks! I’d like to try some more fun videos like yours. Looks like great times!
The KDSS ride *is* jarring at highspeed off-road, espcially on wash-boards. I just installed the KDSS on/off switch from DR KDSS and it has made a huge improvement in that regard.
me too 👍
I was just going to ask if you could install an override switch to turn it off when you're offroad. They would be the best of both worlds.
I wouldn't thing the sway bar, whether KDSS or not, would have any impact on washboard ride quality, since on washboard bumps both wheels are moving up and down at the same time.
@@stevecarlson2346 you'd be mistaken. Washboards aren't even all the way across the road. Often they are only in the path of one side of the car or in curves where one side of the car travels further than the other.
@@stevecarlson2346 You're correct. People fundamentally misunderstand what the swaybar even does.
True offroad enthusiast content is informative and non biased. You are the best at this Kai. Thank you
I have a 2016 LC200 with 34.5’s, lockers and KDSS. Love it. Thanks for the video. It tells me I’m on the right track
Most excellent information and appreciate your research and sharing. I was able to find a 2024 4Runner OR-P for my needs. Daily driver and yet off-roader for fishing trips, photography and exploring interesting off the path places. I was initially not going to go with the KDSS, but as there were only two '24 4R available in my area I did not really have a choice as it was on the only TRD OR-P they had. How mistaken I was! My 4R is amazingly smooth and comfortable on the pavement, tracks effortlessly on the interstate AND gets me well off-road and back home without breaking a sweat! I'll be heading to Montana and Utah this fall and look forward to getting deep in the "road less traveled" and back again! KDSS has been a very positive addition (IMHO) to my 4R suspension!
KDSS is a pretty cool system for a daily driver that also goes off road. I'm looking into the DrKDSS type switches for my GX as I feel like there are certain trails where the 12mph threshold for soft/stiff is just a little slow. You want to go 15, but instead go 11. There are also more prepared dirt/gravel roads where KDSS shines. It's not a Raptor, but can maintain quite a bit of speed without feeling sketchy.
The only other thing is just making sure your aftermarket parts like skid plates, sliders, and lifts don't cause interference with the sway bars. Tons of companies have these parts now.
When watching shade tree mechanics install lifts on kdss equipped vehicles many of them don’t know to loosen both valves under the drivers door side of frame and mark original setting with a wax pencil. It allows the swaybars to move around more freely. After lift is installed lower wheels back on ground, turn valves back to original setting. Also KDSS vehicles will develop what’s called “Kdss Lean” over a lot of miles. This is also fixable by practicing the same principles of loosening the valves, and measuring the lean and putting the same height wood block under the one wheel once you lower the vehicle back down, then just tighten the valves and your back level.
Older video but I'd say its a must for anyone that drives windy roads. Really help with eliminating the body roll.
I don't know crap about off road stuff and i haven't even finished this full video but I love the way you lay out information and show examples and overlays and I sure love Toyotas. I want to see more content like this.
I can appreciate your in-depth analysis and how you present it all. Coming from 3 Toyotas without KDSS to my current truck with KDSS, you've confirme what I've thought about this setup. Thanks!
I'm a total noob to 4Runners, off-roading, 4WD and all of this. BUT I think I'm happy with my choice of 2018 4Runner ORP as my daily driver, family "daddy-mobile," and (hopefully) long-distance road tripper.
Main Use-Cases are all-weather driving in the mountains of New Mexico (including rain, snow), frequent fire trails, forest service roads, and light off-roading, and frequent 2.5-hour highway commuting between two towns.
I love being able to load up whatever I want - family, synthesizers, camping gear... and go at any speed, in comfort and style, on any terrain other than "serious-to-extreme" off-roading.
My next goal is to upgrade my tires to something a LITTLE more suitable for offroad & dirt, without giving up too much for the long highway commutes.
All this to say, I absolutely LOVE my KDSS-equipped 4Runner and I believe I picked the perfect dream vehicle for myself at this point in my life! So happy with it!
Thanks for this great and highly-informative video... as a noob it helps me get my head around the strengths and weaknesses of my beloved truck.
I wish everyone's RUclips videos are as great as yours! Thanks for providing actual technical information rather than marketing fluff!
i disconnected front sway bar in my citroen c5 for better comfort. Couldn't be happier.
And factory suspesion setup is so much understeer that without front one it achieves very fun balance of oversteer and understeer.
Highway driving isn't an issue at all. On gravel its hhealthy and controllable oversteering which is super fun with FWD, because you can control amount of oversteer with gas ;
Just got a GX and this was super helpful! Thanks for the amazingly helpful visual illustrations. Amazingly well done video. Brilliant!
Absolutely wonderful video. I'm happy to see other people understanding and explaining real wheel travel and what KDSS actually does. They make an electric shut out switch that allows you to keep the KDSS valves open or closed at any speed you want with a push of a button. Its wonderful.
Thanks! The switch can only overwrite-open the valves, not overwrite-close the valves. This is achieved by faking a fault signal in KDSS so the ECU goes in fail safe mode (valves open), which is why the KDSS dash light comes on.
For those without KDSS, definitely worth giving removing the sway bar altogether a try. The stock sway bar isn’t very stiff, not a huge difference with and without it.
Big Toyota guy here but never knew about what kdss was. Thanks bud
Great video - best break down of KDSS I have seen. I have a TRD Off Road with KDSS and specifically went for that middle due to the KDSS.
Holy hell!! Why am I just now discovering this RUclips channel? Great info. Well, let me get my pretzels and beer, time to binge watch!
I own a 2017 4runner trd off-road. KDSS hasn't done me wrong. My T4R handles great in windy roads, good on long drives. Never let me down while off-roading either. But, I don't do any extreme off-roading and I also don't only do light off-roading. Love my 4runner!
非常棒的分享，让我有机会了解到了KDSS这套拥有魔法一般的稳定杆动态控制系统，它确实如你所说，很神奇，更兼顾全局，而且很可靠。
Extremely helpful, I’m about to order an ORP 4Runner and the KDSS was my last decision point.
I just got a GX 460 and am doing research on some of the off-road capabilities! Thanks for this insightful video!
I stumbled on your videos at 9am, am super glued to them.Its 4pm now. I have Gx470 and this information is gold. I love my KDSS. It's very effective on cornering in the mountains.
your videos have been nothing short of awesome, please keep up the good work! i would love for you to be able to dispel or confirm the KDSS myths about how much lift can be installed vs inducing KDSS lean from the lift kits. curious if you could dive into that one of these days? also you brought up the front KDSS spacer for the front passenger side, and honestly, i don't know if it would ever be needed for a mid travel lift. hope you can get your hands on one to test and compare. JB
Love your videos! Consistently high quality and while informative you remain open minded and help us understand that one option is not good for all. I love that approach.
Like who are you? Your so incredibly scientific slow methodical and detailed in your videos. Well done sir. I have KDSS on ORP and love it.
Sounds like KDSS is the one for me now. I want a 3 inch lift with 33’s and do decently hard rock crawling and camping. But I also want it to be comfortable on the way to the trails and trips. Thank you for your well conveyed education
Good video! Thank you for all of the hard work and detailed analysis. I really love the KDSS system. It suits our 95% on-highway driving by keeping the truck driving flat thru corners and abrupt maneuvers, even while loaded down with camping gear (evading a homeless guy taking swings at cars in the road with a bat).
This is some really great analytics here. I’ve got a ‘12 GX460, 1.75” spacers with stock struts and 2” Icon springs with stock shocks. A lot of people asked me why I did this. Because of the math! My GX has KDSS, which most people think is a limiting factor. But here’s proof right here. Limiting yes, if you wanted to lift it 6” but I find. With my setup, full wheel droop and my articulation is better than if I had a swaybar. Great video!
This is why I was adamant about having KDSS on my 2019 when I bought it.
Love how your letting your personality out. Great vid so far 😱
Great information as always! I will agree that for me, long drives are no fun without the sway bar. The ride feels smoother without it due to each side working independently, and the flex is great, but the sway during long drives and even heavy winds make me hate the trip of trying to stay in my lane. Would be nice if there was a quick disconnect kit out there.
Dr KDSS makes a disconnect switch a couple folks above have mentioned.
@@RobS123 would be nice but I don't have KDSS. Neat that y'all can do that with a flip of a switch though.
I’d agree with many here. I have a trail 4Runner with KDSS, armoured and heavy, and it is amazingly level on road in the corners, even when pulling a trailer. The beefy sway bars work very well but have the benefit of being disconnected. I do wish I could override the system though to try different things. Aside from that. Zero complaints, even when forums, etc tend to favour not having the system. Oh! Only issue I have is working the front end with the added connections. I sometime struggle with those being under tension/compression and getting it bolted up.
Great info. I was skeptical about buying a KDSS Toyota but now I’m convinced of making sure my next Toyota have KDSS
its the best , but i only recommend one inch lift , with kdss
@@irfanspace even with the KDSS extensions? I seen people with KDSS installing extensions after a lift to lower them down to the original location.
@@walterramirez3287 i have 2020 4 runner lifted 2 inch front and back and no issue , not even once my sway bar KDSS touched anything , but i am not happy , i wish i just lifted one inch, because lift , FK-UP everything , people does many things so do it .
@@irfanspace I just wast a reliable vehicle but want to put 34s on it. Before I do anything I would be doing more research. Thanks for the input.
@@walterramirez3287 i will give you answer , you can put without modification 275/70/17 tire size but if you want to go 285/70/17 you will get rubbing , also depend on alignment , but you must go 3 inch lift for 285 tire , with 3 inch lift you must need to extend break line pipes , , diff drop + skid plate bolts replacement , along with rear panhard rod alignment ( no one does) , and you will loss ride quality , you get lift by Harding the spring , these vehicles not build for rock curling , just for off road , no one will tell , until you experience by your own , one inch lift is better ,by putting better shocks and springs but Max 2 inch lift , base on my experience .
best of luck ✌
I will be in the market soon for a Toyota 4Runner and the fact that KDSS makes the car feel better ONROAD is convincing me to pay the premium for the right truck.
I bought the KDSS upgrade on my ORP because it prevents the famous 4Runner nose dive with braking.
Thanks for this vid, I appreciate the work you put into creating these videos. I understood that that KDSS helps with onroad suspension stability but never really understood it (if that makes sense lol). Watching this helped understand the purpose for it on and offroad.
wow glad I found this channel- super informative and completely objective. great job!
Yes I want KDSS! My Jeep has the worst body roll, so much so I'm going back to the 4Runner. I'm just learning about KDSS. Now that I understand it, I absolutely want it. Thank you for the lessons
Wow, impressive detail research. You should get an award. We recently got a 4Runner with KDSS. Hope to do some long travel, e.g, East Coast to West Coast, and explore some off-road adventure. So far the roughest thing we have done so far is drive over icy lumps from where the snow melt and freezes. It is a bumpy ride. I imagine that could be what it would be like going offroad. I could watch your video again as it's fascinating. However, I have limited CPU power at my age to grasp all the new info that you were dumping out there. Any case, any suggestions what we could do, if anything, to make our offroad driving smoother. We are not planning on doing any hardcore rock rawling, but would like to go offroad. Thank you again for sharing. I will need to revisit this video and see what else i CAN pickup. Subscribed. God Bless and stay safe.
You did a great job with this video. I had no idea what KDSS was but I kept seeing it on the Lexus GX460 forums (I recently purchased a 2013 GX460 Premium with KDSS). This was very enlightening!!!
Wow never exspected Testing would show kdss is a positive Upgrade Very informative as always 13:34 @Tickerer's Adventure
Well done and very clear. We are buying a new 4Runner in the coming days and was against KDSS until I watched this. I think it will work better for us than non-KDSS with what we do.
Well done young man. I get tired of explaining to Trd pro people why my kdss 4runner outperforms them with a 2 inch lift and shock, tire upgrade. Not to mention the huge road handling benefits. It’s humbling for them to realize they overspent by $10k+ for the trd pro badge + modifications. That all said it depends on your requirements. My experience with most offroad people is they are 90% mall getters. I needed my setup for work as I work oil and gas and abuse this system daily. My 2 cents your mileage may vary.
yeah I couldnt justify the extra 10K for cosmetic changes, suspension upgrade and other features. seemed unnecessary and you can pick out your own suspension upgrades/wheels with the money you dont spend on the trd pro. maybe some people like that but not for me.
The TRD Pro moniker adds a number of nice upgrades not to mention that over the pandemic the value almost doubled on just the TRD Pros. So I am sure 10k for the Trd pro was not really a big deal to the people who own em...
@@Hotel_soap exactly and better components as well.. The TRD Pro is a marketing gimmick designed to separate your money from wallet when you can build a new better off-roader for the same $ or less.
@@shrayesraman5192 Yes trd mall queens are proud of the red stitching until they have to turn around on the trail, seen that many times.
@@michaeldbhawker3556 To each there own i guess... To be honest it makes no sense to buy a new vehicle to off road. Anyone buying a new 4runner to do serious off roading is nuts or is so loaded they don't care. Calling anybody a mall queen is crazy unless your 4runner never leaves the trail.
Been waiting for your next video to come out. Thanks for the fix! Great videos
The KDSS in the Lexus GX has the electronics in it, but in contrast, the KDSS in the 200 Series Cruiser is completely devoid of any electronics. So it does not have the valves which open up to the accumulators. There are no accumulators in the 200 Series KDSS system.
This may mean that the 200 Series Land Cruiser may well keep the vehicle more level a very sideways lean, rather than the KDSS in the Lexus GX.
What about the 4RUNNER?
@@jamak919nc Sorry I don't know whether the Toyota 4Runner has electronically controlled KDSS or if it's a purely hydraulic system like it is on the 200 Series with conventional coil springs. In some markets (e.g. UK) the 200 Series can be equipped with AHC (height adjustable suspension) and it uses a very different system to the hydraulic KDSS.
@@tempestv8 I hope it doesn't have any electronics. Even tho I am getting one with kdss regardless lol.
This is the best explanation of KDSS!
We've got the ability to disable the KDSS by inserting a switch on one ground wire. This would allow it to work at higher than 12 mph speeds (where the stock system locks it back) which many think would be useful on some trails. More likely it should be activated again at around 22 mph as much above that might give less desirable results in handling.
I agree, swaybar is still desired for cornering during high speed offroad. most race trucks run swaybars.
@@TinkerersAdventure but the way you are saying as it’s a true disconnect it is not. Trust me I do high speed cornering in baja with the kdss deactivated with the switch and the sway bar is still there. The shock in the kdss will run out of travel and that’s when the high spring rate sway bar kicks in more. You are still dealing with the sway bar trying to twist. It’s just less active then when in stock mode.
I had a 2015 SR5, without KDSS obviously. Getting a 2022 ORP with KDSS later this week though and Im really excited to see how it feels on the road.
How'd you go broski
Just bought a 2017 4Runner 4x4 and your content is very helpful to actually learn the facts (mechanics) of lifting and suspensions
Wow, thanks for these vids! I have a 2016 4runner with KDSS and the amount of marketing crap is astronomical. Between this one and your UCA vids 99% of my questions just melted away! Subscribed!
I plan on building up a pre runner style 4runner so I am glad I am without KDSS. Thanks for all the great information in this and other videos 🤟🏽
Great video man. Top to bottom. Lots of great information, presented with excellent footage showing the articulation you speak of on multiple vehicles. Clear graphs. No bullshit. Thank you.
another excellent video. no one I know of is providing research, imperial data, and analysts in the way you are. please keep it up.
I used to own a 14 trail 4runner. With kdss my buddies all called it crap and were tearing it out of their rings. I kept mine in and was able to go many of the places they went. That's up here in the PNW so it's saying something you just let me know I was right all along lol. I'll send them all the link! I did go back to a 2010 fj had 1 before but it was totaled not my fault. The 4runner didn't have the head or leg room so I bought another fj 2010 all white like yours. Hard to find when your looking for one. So glad to be back in it it's been 2 years now and I won't be giving it up anytime soon.
At 1st I was thinking this dude about to give the most stuck in his old ways biased opinions of KDSS, but happily you actually showed a lot of worth while down to the meat & potatoes in depth testing that was necessary to do this sort of comparison true justice, even if the conclusion would've been that KDSS was a waste(which it wasn't)you did this topic right, and visualised a lot of this information as a solid resource for those who don't just want to hear about theory but see actual results
Earned yourself a subscribe there bud
I have a 2019 4R KDSS. I kinda knew what KDSS is for, but not so much in detail. Thank you for your video.
Excellent work, thanks for such a concise and thorough breakdown. Another consideration is a KDSS solenoid switch, which you can use during high-speed offroading to reduce the jarring suspension. I will be adding one to my setup. Otherwise, concur with your assessments, I have a GX470 with KDSS + 2" lift and 33" tires. Front and rear KDSS spacers are a must.
Explained very well and backed by facts. Too bad most car journalists do not go to engineering school. I just got a Landcruiser Prado 150 with KDSS, and I am glad. I can be costly if it breaks, but it is rare. Otherwise for my use case.. lots of highway driving until I get to the off road part, it is great.
I love the channel, thank you for the time and effort to do all this tests, few people know how difficult the logistics behind them is. I really appreciate the work you put in.
Bro, your content is so well done. I've got a 1st gen Sequoia on 35s and had to sort out everything but damn you are doing such a good job explaining everything I would have struggled at. Well done.
There is a way to have KDSS soft above 12mph, it's a product made by Dr KDSS for higher speed off road, he also has the TC KDSS LC up front and spacers.
Very good explanations and examples !! I actually feel that I understand it a lot better. Thank you! And thanks for the 2" lift vote. I like it !
This guy is straight genius! Love all the technical info~!
We have the Prado here in Australia (a far better version of the Lexis you guys get) and we deliberately hunted down a Kakadu model just for KDSS. On the slow stuff here its amazing, but also gives better on road, which carrying the family was important.
Kdss was developed here in Australia, so has been pretty much tested to hell and back.
Only issue I ever have is some accessories don't fit KDSS models.
Great video! Thanks for the info! Just picked up a LR ORP 4runner with KDSS. Can't believe the difference between it and my 2020 Venture without KDSS.
I love this research based approach to information. Also great to know regarding KDSS. Only thing I would challenge is regarding off camber and the sway bar, in that it's only better if your vehicle doesn't have to articulate. If you have to drop into the off camber section on an angle then you're probably better off without it. At least that has been my experience.
Thanks! I see what you mean here and I agree with what you described. I did encounter many situations where I need to go up on to a side bank to avoid deep wash out or a tree. So not so much as "dropping into" a ditch.
instant subscription, great work man, well balanced, articulated (pun intended) and produced.
Amazing video my man. Keep them coming. Makes me feel better about my KDSS 4Runner, thanks brother.
Great video! Glad to hear that KDSS actually does work similar to a quick disconnect, but I have also seen one of those KDSS shafts come out of the piston on the trails in Moab, so though it may work, it also adds another point of failure unfortunately, and it costs an arm and a leg to repair!
Wow I wouldn't have even considered this. Then again that is an extreme use case that majority of people would never encounter
the shaft came out of the piston because the person most likely lifted their vehicle. The stock piston is only so long. The failure was the lift... left at stock height or small lift KDSS will be fine. We ubuse our GX460 and we love KDSS ❤️
@@LexusGX460-OFF-ROAD Might be a good argument for KDSS spacers with a lift.
@@stevecarlson2346 yes... I think that's what most who lift KDSS do right? spacers?
Thanks! Ouch, that is bad. yeah those things are more expensive than a fancy shock. Was that a rear KDSS shaft got pulled out? Was he running long travel rear shocks?
Very insightful, I have owned KDSS and non KDSS 4runners... KDSS handles great for general overlanding trips, not so much on technical, higher roll, articulating terrain, especially if you are top heavy. Still, every man has their needs and you can never go wrong with it. but I would rather save on the dealer $1,500 and use it towards a more comprehensive suspension upgrade.
I see KDSS all the time on technical rides. What are you talking about.
I'm really enjoying your videos and how you present information. Keep up the great work!
I absolutely love these your videos. You explain everything so well thank you!
Thanks for the great review of the KDSS on the GX. I have one and I really enjoy the ride quality although I do only light off-roading. I enjoy your technical, objectiv off-road techncial reviews. I think they are way above par...
For off camber stability: there is a kit where you can turn the solenoid valves off manually so you can disable KDSS at higher speeds, or lock the KDSS at lower speeds.
can you send me the link to that kit? if you're referring to dr.kdss, it can only disable KDSS at higher speeds. it does not lock the KDSS at lower speeds
Wait until you guys see the next part coming out after these clamps to keep the sway bar in check. The part after that will allow for the sway bar to sit up nice and high because no drop spacer but will allow for full droops and fox another issue which I can’t mention as it will give it away 🥰
Great video, I have a 2014 GX460 and enjoy the articulation off road and good handling on road with the KDSS. I have a 2 inch lift with 32" tires I think it's the ideal setup for me. Now I just need to do something about the approach angle!
good indepth video on both sytems, I have a 2016 trail 4runner with KDSS and i love the ability it give's me both on road and of road, I also think it does'nt get the recognition that the TRD pro get's, other than a slight increase in hight,different shock's and badging the trail now called TRD off road would be a better sytem in the long run with the KDSS, Just my opinion.
I believe the main contributing to the difference between the 4R vs GX results at 6:21 is the GX's higher CofG. That moment arm would definitely cause additional lean. This is despite its narrower wheel track compared to the 4Runner.
The FJ Cruiser however has both a lower CofG but also a wider wheel track, which means a lower moment arm from the reference poi t of its CofG.
Good point
just ordered the LC300 GR sport with EKDSS. very happy I did now after watching your video as much of my use will be long distant touring in australia.
Thank you. I really like the LC300. Congrats on the purchase. I wish the US had LC300. The LX600 and the new sequoia have the same platform, but both are missing the E-KDSS.