Heh - what we probably should have said is "We can't do this in the amount of time we have left to write a payload..." - we weren't kidding when we said that Masterjun had just finished the Pong and Snake payload the night before. I am very glad we had an opportunity for p4plus2 to make the dream come true and get SMB running on top of SMW for AGDQ 2015, though.
If I were Nintendo, I'd hire the person who created the SMW TAS that was able to program a game into it using only 8 controller inputs. I was stunned. It's incredible.
0:30 - Gradius attempt 1 4:20 - Mario Kart 64 (Special Cup) 11:17 - Mario Kart 64 (Mushroom Cup) 18:05 - Gradius attempt 2 21:35 - Super Mario 64 (0 star) 31:49 - Super Mario World (Total Control)
The last part with Super Mario World was absolutely, without question, the most amazing TAS accomplishment I've ever seen. Programming the game through button inputs? Brilliant.
I'm literally in tears right now.. this is what all the years of hard and excruciating work have come too. I'm touched. That has to be one of the most amazing things I've ever seen in my entire gaming career. Congratulations for actually blowing everyone's minds! Also, they raised over $1,000,000.. it's absolutely amazing. Proud to be somewhat a part of this community!
thanks for always making my day, tasvideos and speeddemosarchive. when i feel blue or bored, i tend to search for videos, whichever group had new videos to watch, and let myself get amazed by your entertaning speed runs. :)
The SMW Total Control hack is fantastic! The memory glitch is funny, but the fact that you were able to load and play a glitchless program on an actual console is unprecedented. Thanks so much for playing at AGDQ!
They programmed new games INSIDE a SNES game purely by TASing it... that is so mind-boggingly clever that I don't have enough words to describe their genius.
Oh my God, this is awesome. I love how they brought the old comment system in this video. That's awesome, a great little touch to the whole "let's break everything without hacking it!" thing. I love this. GG. xD
I built the cables in this video by taking a knock-off SNES controller (which has 5 wires for +5v, ground, latch, clock, and data1) and I stole two wires from a second controller (for data2 and ioselect pins normally populated in a multitap cable) then I used a pull wire to drag them through heatshrink tubing. My primary regret is that the pull wire I used was a bit rigid, which you can see in the video when I hold it up after the SMW run. They got the job done, though.
That is correct. The extra controllers also gave us extra data throughput (in this case, 48 bytes per frame, with 60 frames per second). Still, it's theoretically possible. :)
Most of the time AGDQ is held in DC. theres annother marathon just like it held around the colorado area though during the summer called Summer games done quick
It's actually possible to send data down the controller ports. A regular controller doesn't have the data lines hooked up, but they made a special cable just for the purpose. If you do it right, you can literally reprogram the RAM while you play and make it do pretty much whatever you want, within the capabilities of the system of course. They did the same thing at AGDQ 2015 with a Super Game Boy and Pokemon Red, and...well, I won't spoil it for you. You NEED to see it. :D
i think you would need 8 hands to be able to achieve that, as they stated that the controller cable where custom made as to allow the rob to connect to the snes with 8 controllers. and the input form those 8 controllers combined were what made it possible for them to input their own code into the game and program snake and pong.
The reason to that is that in some run (more often in recent games) you start manipulate luck even when input doesnt have any (visual) impact on the gameplay but button are still pressed. That doesnt happen in human speedrunning, that why rules are different for those two different way of playing a game.
Yes. Basically through a series of glitches, he loaded a "bootloader" into a predetermined block of memory. Then, using said bootloader to convert the multi-tap controller input to write the custom game into the SNES memory.
I don't know if I'm getting it, does that mean that, if I had 100% precision on button input, i could program snake and Pong into my SMW cartridge, with my controller, console and TV, just by "playing" it? I mean, they didn't change the original game code at all?
so mi curious, you said that you could not program the original super mario due to not being able to input the amount of data needed per frame, does that mean that you needed extra "controllers" to achieve that ?
Can someone explain how people even find these attributes. Who would figure out how to jump through walls and use speed the way these videos showed? I want to know how this started.
+normalguycap I'm almost certain (hopefully someone else can chime in) it's by actually looking at the games code at some point on a computer because a lot of TASers will straight up reference memory code(?) which usually looks like "0x4782HD" or "1x02DP8A" or some stuff so they MUST be looking at something "under the hood" so to speak at the very start to KNOW what they have to do in the game in order to actually execute the code. When it comes down to it, the run itself is righting the code, you need to know how the game will interpret that by knowing how it interprets its own code first (code might not be the right word, I see "memory bits" referenced more, but I just found out about this stuff like 1 hour ago and I'm just spewing out everything I just looked up right now haha. Side note, I fix computers for a living so this stuff kind of "makes sense" to me if you know what I mean (although I can't stand writing code lol, I might if I knew this was possible!)
+Glowyrm Yes it does seem very likely they're looking at the game code/memory layout of the game directly and figuring out how they can write code into memory where they have the space to do so without causing major errors. Then somehow move the instruction pointer to that location so they can "take over" the game by having it run code that doesn't belong to it. And as for your considerations it's not really "code" as you say. It's bytecode of some form (depends on the processor architecture). But it's not C/Java/Lua/whatever code like most programmers would probably envision code primarily. It's what those languages translate to. If you want to learn about this stuff Stack buffer overflows and Arbitrary code execution are two nice things to search for. Commonly used by hackers because there's really not been that much effort serious to prevent it, just a few things that make it more difficult (though not sufficiently since you see these exploits frequently even in supposedly secure systems).
+Glowyrm I just want to add, Hexadecimal is 0-9 and A-F. So you will never get something like this: "1x02DP8A" In fact you should never get 1x anything, it's 0x000000 - 0xFFFFFF. --Reason for this is 0x anything doesn't change the value, it's just a representative saying hex. Just like 0b00000101 is representative for binary (the value of that is 5 in case you were wondering). Also for TASing we have tools in emulators such as in BizHawk it's called RAMSearch and RAMWatch. I recommend you try it out and have a look yourself, it's really neat stuff. :D
One thing that might be possible with some tweaking is increasing the number of times per frame that the controllers are sampled; this is potentially unstable but may allow us to significantly increase the data rate. The bigger limitation will likely be the amount of RAM available; all of SMB may simply not fit, plus the payload might introduce.. er.. legal complications. Having said that, it'll be interesting to see what other people develop now that this exploit is more widely known.
20... you would have 20 controllers. SNES has 2 sockets. So that is taken up by two of the multitaps. each other of the 4 taps you said would take up all of one tap. So. 4x5. Or 20.
For people watching this from the distant future (october 2016 or later), I'd like to point out that Weatherton has a 150cc GP TAS published on TASvideos. It's as impressive as the cup presented here, and the submission text is a very long and very interesting read. tasvideos.org/5243S.html
Yes. However, that's only because that glitch that can be abused to access the memory in a way that's not intended (like Missingno), so it's not possible in all games.
They said they needed extra controller pins (multitap) to get enough data into it per frame. If you used a multitap and 8 controllers you could "theoretically" do it with perfect inputs. At least that's my understanding.
Heh - what we probably should have said is "We can't do this in the amount of time we have left to write a payload..." - we weren't kidding when we said that Masterjun had just finished the Pong and Snake payload the night before. I am very glad we had an opportunity for p4plus2 to make the dream come true and get SMB running on top of SMW for AGDQ 2015, though.
I just noticed CarlSagan42 in the front row with his goofy grins and chuckles. Look how young everybody was!
If I were Nintendo, I'd hire the person who created the SMW TAS that was able to program a game into it using only 8 controller inputs. I was stunned. It's incredible.
CarlCap look up sethbling, he did that with flappy Bird, tealtime
did you know SethBling used to be a Microsoft employee?
Ironed Sandwich everyone knows that
I didnt
Nor me.
"Don't worry, it gets better! Oh.. it desynced."
Man.. : (
0:30 - Gradius attempt 1
4:20 - Mario Kart 64 (Special Cup)
11:17 - Mario Kart 64 (Mushroom Cup)
18:05 - Gradius attempt 2
21:35 - Super Mario 64 (0 star)
31:49 - Super Mario World (Total Control)
CARL SOAKIN' UP THE SCIENCE IN THE FRONT ROW
This is amazing, they should let you guys do this at every AGDQ.
This was the best thing I've seen in the marathon last night. Awesome job!
You can tell how nerdy we are when you look at our shoes lol
The last part with Super Mario World was absolutely, without question, the most amazing TAS accomplishment I've ever seen. Programming the game through button inputs? Brilliant.
The first TASblock ever, a great step towards fun GDQ stuff!
No words man no words. that is just the craziest feat of TASing I've ever seen,
Thank you for uploading this! I wasn't able to view it live due to connectivity problems, but now I can see it! ^^
I'm literally in tears right now.. this is what all the years of hard and excruciating work have come too. I'm touched. That has to be one of the most amazing things I've ever seen in my entire gaming career. Congratulations for actually blowing everyone's minds! Also, they raised over $1,000,000.. it's absolutely amazing. Proud to be somewhat a part of this community!
This was really great to watch and a engineering field which I didn't knew of, thank you!
thanks for always making my day, tasvideos and speeddemosarchive. when i feel blue or bored, i tend to search for videos, whichever group had new videos to watch, and let myself get amazed by your entertaning speed runs. :)
The SMW Total Control hack is fantastic! The memory glitch is funny, but the fact that you were able to load and play a glitchless program on an actual console is unprecedented. Thanks so much for playing at AGDQ!
This was really cool, keep up the good work guys!
They programmed new games INSIDE a SNES game purely by TASing it... that is so mind-boggingly clever that I don't have enough words to describe their genius.
This was extremely cool watching it on the stream.
Snake and Pong should be minigames in the next mario :)
The Community is making so cool stuf, why is nintendo so unflexible ?
Oh my god ! The old system of commentary ! It's so beautiful !
This was so awesome. The super mario world stuff is insane!
When the TAS Man's testifying, a faith less man believes.
The guy in the back did the mario clear dance at 23:33 XD
Ha ha I saw that lol 😂
2:28 actually
+Henrix98 what
23:28
23:26 here🤣
*S O L O N G, G A Y B O W S E R!*
Is that carlsagan42 in the background/
+Devin Allen IDKXD
IKR? I recognized it when he laughed
Why wouldn't he be there?
Yes🤣
This is just mindblowing!
Oh my God, this is awesome. I love how they brought the old comment system in this video. That's awesome, a great little touch to the whole "let's break everything without hacking it!" thing. I love this. GG. xD
What if they made TAS into an OS?
Call it WinTAS.
It would play CS:GO for you, basically.
WinTAS coming.
Tis a pun, love.
Or a MacinTAS.
I'm not sorry.
enjoy your vacban
Wow... seeing this made me realize, I actually did forget what the old comment system looked like. Such beauty~
Wow! That was just FUN and really awesome!
Just a quick hex print of symbols such as apostrophe, ampersand, etc. For some reason on my end theyre showing up as hex rather than the UTF8 symbol.
Keep up the great work guys.
So long gay Bowser!
This year, AGDQ was in Washington DC. It's in a different place each year, though.
Enjoying the old comment system...
Anyways, I saw this live and it was INSANE. Kudos to the people that put this together.
I built the cables in this video by taking a knock-off SNES controller (which has 5 wires for +5v, ground, latch, clock, and data1) and I stole two wires from a second controller (for data2 and ioselect pins normally populated in a multitap cable) then I used a pull wire to drag them through heatshrink tubing. My primary regret is that the pull wire I used was a bit rigid, which you can see in the video when I hold it up after the SMW run. They got the job done, though.
Wow... Unbelievable that they managed to discover and manufacture something like that.
Ahh the days when people clapped for $500 at AGDQ
34:00 for those that are looking for it
If you're reading this now, Tasbot is playing Pokemon Red now on AGDQ 2015. Watch that now instead.
That is correct. The extra controllers also gave us extra data throughput (in this case, 48 bytes per frame, with 60 frames per second). Still, it's theoretically possible. :)
Most of the time AGDQ is held in DC. theres annother marathon just like it held around the colorado area though during the summer called Summer games done quick
It is doing it the same way as the pong-snake game ... the code for the website is just perfect to do this
Is that Carl(CarlSagan42) in the first row middle behind middle couches head?
4:36 Mario Kart 64
11:26 Mario Kart 64
18:06 Gradius
21:39 Super Mario 64
31:27 Super Mario World
It's actually possible to send data down the controller ports. A regular controller doesn't have the data lines hooked up, but they made a special cable just for the purpose. If you do it right, you can literally reprogram the RAM while you play and make it do pretty much whatever you want, within the capabilities of the system of course.
They did the same thing at AGDQ 2015 with a Super Game Boy and Pokemon Red, and...well, I won't spoil it for you. You NEED to see it. :D
i think you would need 8 hands to be able to achieve that, as they stated that the controller cable where custom made as to allow the rob to connect to the snes with 8 controllers. and the input form those 8 controllers combined were what made it possible for them to input their own code into the game and program snake and pong.
it'd be interesting to find out why. I'm guessing it probably has a similar effect as strafe running does in some FPS's
OMG Another video!
This is the best shit I have seen this month.
It only appears on this video for some reason, Really nice to see normal top comments again though.
Like the Pokemon Yellow TAS exploit. I love it!
The reason to that is that in some run (more often in recent games) you start manipulate luck even when input doesnt have any (visual) impact on the gameplay but button are still pressed.
That doesnt happen in human speedrunning, that why rules are different for those two different way of playing a game.
That was awesome!
Yes.
Basically through a series of glitches, he loaded a "bootloader" into a predetermined block of memory. Then, using said bootloader to convert the multi-tap controller input to write the custom game into the SNES memory.
no, it's just a different timing method.
"I'm the best!"
Not gonna argue that
Which guy is masterjun3 in this video? Is he the dude with the long hair with the Dell Laptop?
I don't know if I'm getting it, does that mean that, if I had 100% precision on button input, i could program snake and Pong into my SMW cartridge, with my controller, console and TV, just by "playing" it? I mean, they didn't change the original game code at all?
so mi curious, you said that you could not program the original super mario due to not being able to input the amount of data needed per frame, does that mean that you needed extra "controllers" to achieve that ?
It's because they aren't actually playing back a "video" per se. They're in fact playing back JUST the controller inputs.
You can't actually reprogram the game code on the cartridge, just the active memory, so the game size would be very limited.
Can someone explain how people even find these attributes. Who would figure out how to jump through walls and use speed the way these videos showed? I want to know how this started.
+normalguycap
I'm almost certain (hopefully someone else can chime in) it's by actually looking at the games code at some point on a computer because a lot of TASers will straight up reference memory code(?) which usually looks like "0x4782HD" or "1x02DP8A" or some stuff so they MUST be looking at something "under the hood" so to speak at the very start to KNOW what they have to do in the game in order to actually execute the code.
When it comes down to it, the run itself is righting the code, you need to know how the game will interpret that by knowing how it interprets its own code first (code might not be the right word, I see "memory bits" referenced more, but I just found out about this stuff like 1 hour ago and I'm just spewing out everything I just looked up right now haha. Side note, I fix computers for a living so this stuff kind of "makes sense" to me if you know what I mean (although I can't stand writing code lol, I might if I knew this was possible!)
+Glowyrm Yes it does seem very likely they're looking at the game code/memory layout of the game directly and figuring out how they can write code into memory where they have the space to do so without causing major errors. Then somehow move the instruction pointer to that location so they can "take over" the game by having it run code that doesn't belong to it.
And as for your considerations it's not really "code" as you say. It's bytecode of some form (depends on the processor architecture). But it's not C/Java/Lua/whatever code like most programmers would probably envision code primarily. It's what those languages translate to.
If you want to learn about this stuff Stack buffer overflows and Arbitrary code execution are two nice things to search for. Commonly used by hackers because there's really not been that much effort serious to prevent it, just a few things that make it more difficult (though not sufficiently since you see these exploits frequently even in supposedly secure systems).
+Glowyrm I just want to add, Hexadecimal is 0-9 and A-F.
So you will never get something like this: "1x02DP8A"
In fact you should never get 1x anything, it's 0x000000 - 0xFFFFFF. --Reason for this is 0x anything doesn't change the value, it's just a representative saying hex. Just like 0b00000101 is representative for binary (the value of that is 5 in case you were wondering).
Also for TASing we have tools in emulators such as in BizHawk it's called RAMSearch and RAMWatch. I recommend you try it out and have a look yourself, it's really neat stuff. :D
Why aren't the TAS videos timed starting at controller on and stopped at controller off?
+carlsagan42 in the background?
Well this doesn't really confirm it, but from what info his tweets gave he was there that year.
Stuckurface definitely
yes, that's him
He said in a stream that this year (AGDQ 2017) was the first time in in like 6 years he wasn't there
thx 4 new vid
Where can I see the run that's shown at the very beginning?
Yeah, I don't get it either. Has YT gone back to the old comments layout?
One thing that might be possible with some tweaking is increasing the number of times per frame that the controllers are sampled; this is potentially unstable but may allow us to significantly increase the data rate. The bigger limitation will likely be the amount of RAM available; all of SMB may simply not fit, plus the payload might introduce.. er.. legal complications. Having said that, it'll be interesting to see what other people develop now that this exploit is more widely known.
hahaha all the way to 2022 where you pushed over 5kbps of data into the n64 ports, the tech journey
@@zackoster-nelson8028 What a blast from the past! We actually push much faster than even that on the SNES audio player payload
One of the first SMW TAS glitches used 8 (!) controller inputs for the glitch to work.
WOW! very amazing. Awesome video. Keep it up; Any chance any other games could be "programmed" into this game?
Can someone explain the Super Mario World-WhatEverTheF*ckItWas to me? Did he change the code while playing it or what happened?
I've never seen Mario Kart being ran like that lol. Awesome stuff.
I SO LOVE IT
but what if you connected 4 more multitaps to each multitap? you would get like 57298957248956284923254 controllers
20... you would have 20 controllers. SNES has 2 sockets. So that is taken up by two of the multitaps. each other of the 4 taps you said would take up all of one tap. So. 4x5. Or 20.
+Nigel Silva (The Encounter) yeah cuz exaggerations or hyperboles don't exist right?
Where is here is Feos & Ans?
I may have noticed how the girl in the back has been knitting this entire time... Wonder why? Wonder if she will ever tell us?
god that one dude's clap is so sharp and loud in his mic
With how fast the button presses are most of the time, it would probably break the controller and/or overheat the robot
WHY THEY NO STREAMING TO RUclips!? Twitch's chat is crazy, over 70,000 people...
Does anyone know how TASVideos re-enabled it?
What goes on around 33:00? is that thing actually in game or what?
Mesmerizing.
What's with the old comment section? It's doing it on the mobile site.
You tell a plumber he is gonna get "cake" from THE princess of the kingdom and he will know no limits.
i can’t believe this comment was made 7 years ago
THEY BROUGHT BACK THE OLD REPLY SYSTEM!! :D
For people watching this from the distant future (october 2016 or later), I'd like to point out that Weatherton has a 150cc GP TAS published on TASvideos. It's as impressive as the cup presented here, and the submission text is a very long and very interesting read. tasvideos.org/5243S.html
Yes. However, that's only because that glitch that can be abused to access the memory in a way that's not intended (like Missingno), so it's not possible in all games.
Maryo showing off his ninja warrior skills and telepor'.
(Great telepor', Maryo.)
33:45 How did you like Pong, Carl?
What the heck, how did you guys do the comments like this? Is it an option to set for uploaders or what?
They said they needed extra controller pins (multitap) to get enough data into it per frame. If you used a multitap and 8 controllers you could "theoretically" do it with perfect inputs.
At least that's my understanding.
What the- why is the old comment system here?
Man, how much I missed the old comment system. Nice run though :P
Yo is that CarlSagan42 in the back?
The Super Mario World reminded me of PJs Battletoads runs.
I came on this video only for the old comment system. So much emotions.
But I love Super Mario too. :3
wait, so they found a way to program games within the game?
That's not even the astonishing part. It's done with a controller and performing certain actions in the game.
i do wonder how people find these things, like who found that glitch to program games in super mario world