Can Achievement Hunting Ruin Your Experience? | Castle Super Beast Clips
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- Опубликовано: 16 ноя 2024
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@A_D_Art
The simple rule of only perfecting games I like when its fun has never done me wrong.
Or when it's really easy
i've only ever perfected 2 games in my life. Oblivion and Stardew Valley.
@@whatsuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu Oh so Legend of Korra
Bloodborne platinum is both easy and fun, so no reason not to go for it imo
@@Abyss3223 and enjoyable. Didn't even know that had a game lol. Only recently watched season 1 of that
Gosh Pat's point about having fomo for not completing certain things is on point. I can't tell you how many games ended bumming me out because I couldn't get a cool armor set because I had to do something that would either take too much of my time or i just don't have the skills to do. Sure I could ignore it but knowing that I'm missing out on something that would definetly improve my gameplay experience is not a fun feeling.
the FOMO of limited time events is what turned me off of Borderlands 3...that and its obsession with turd humor in the main story but MOSTLY the fomo.
That's why I don't look up stuff because there's been times where instead of just naturally finding out about something I look up the best armor best weapons etc and it ruins my experience.
I wound up quitting Warframe over Nightwave and Halo Infinite over the event playlists. I can't just not fixate on them even though I know I'd have a better experience if I ignored them.
@@ironeleven Halo Infinite is different on so many levels for me. Spartan customization became increasingly integral to multiplayer since 2, only for them to chop it into pieces and gate so much of it behind events or microtransactions, is the salt on the wound of that game.
That's why I can't go back to Destiny. Played 1 all the time after Taken King but wasn't digging 2 at launch and now all the early stuff is gone.
Great seeing Suzi back, she fits the CSB vibe so well
Could she be the third beast?
@@TheRealHoodedGeek I'd like that but I doubt it
@@zomgneedarandomname It's probably better this way. They can also introduce other guests down the line if they feel like it.
💯
Woolie should make all of his lab-time he doesn't wanna do on stream into a spin-off series. I'd watch the hell out of Dr. Madden's mad laboratory
Dr Madden's Mad Laboratory sounds fantastic.
Sounds like the hypest 90s learning cd rom game
Just for the name alone im hooked
Unless he just wanted to do it there's no way it would be worth it for him to do. No way there's a big audience for that among his viewers.
@@GundiMike very lame and boring of you
One of the worst achievement grinds I've experienced is for Final Fantasy X HD. Most of the obvious stuff is there, getting all the Celestial Weapons, finishing the arena, Blitzball, but some genius at Squeenix decided that fully completing every character's sphere grid should be required for the 100%. Including filling in all blank spaces with stat spheres. The end result is an endless grind of not only the AP to unlock the spaces but a mountain of stat spheres from arena bosses, but that's not even the worst part. If you decide to cheat (like me) and use FFX HD's Give All Items command to skip the sphere grind, there's no way to quickly fill in the the grids, resulting in multiple hours of just mashing X on the sphere grid. The fact that there's zero challenge and it's all just painful busywork makes it so much more exhausting.
There's something about rpgs that almost necessitate shitty trophy progression lol
FFX-2 sucks too but for getting a perfect completion percentage to see the true ending
9:25 Pat is like the epitome of how the Norns describe destiny in Ragnarok: he is driven by his nature.
It is weird because the first podcast he brought this up, he had the same opinion he does right now. The very next week "its not really that much of a problem any more because the game is so damn long you are probably going to get them naturally from playing." Now with Pat, we are right back to square one just because its a complaint he can use in the conversation, despite having reversed his position weeks ago already. Its the nature of things lol.
@@Dragonsmana The fact that his anxiety went away after he finally realized how long the game is does not erase the anxiety he had before that realization. Pat's complaint is still valid even if he changed his mind about it later.
@@HuoShengdi Its hard to call something a fair evaluation when you don't have all the facts, and then you do have the facts change your opinion, only to go back to your original opinion just for something to complain about. He also failed completely in this video to mention that his way of thinking changed with more information. Its forgetting to add the context by mistake at best. It is intellectually dishonest at worst.
@@Dragonsmana Listening again he's talking about how if he didn't have to play on stream and progress he would have sat there and maxed everything out ASAP. His later opinion changing is actually not relevant at all to this conversation. He's talking about his initial gut reaction to that game system, before he knew anything about how long the game is. In essence, Pat is not complaining about the *game*, he's complaining about his own feelings.
I've started preferring games that don't have achievements, because I've found myself so often playing the game to fill up a to-do list, instead of just enjoying the game.
Yakuza Zero has achievements, but I've made a conscious decision to avoid activities I don't like. As a result, I love every second I play that game!
Pat mentioning the map in Witcher 3 reminded me how I hid all the points of interest, so I could discover them myself when I happened to stumble there.
Yakuza Zero is one where I got caught in a trap of trying to do all the things. Baseball? I can't even get the first levels. After trying for that too long I did switch to only doing the stuff I found fun, but as mentioned FOMO still kinda hits me. Wish I had an easier time breaking free of that.
As a poor kid i found trophy clearing was a good way to extend the fun you could have with a game between getting a new one and now its so ingrained in me to look at the 100% clear time estimations to see which are worth going for
Pat's anxiety is something I don't always get, but the engineering in Elite Dangerous hits it for me super hard. When you try to engineer a ship part up to level 5 you hit exponential diminishing returns, where you're stuck with the part at like 95% engineered, and every upgrade only bumps it up a fraction of the remainder. So while the 95% might have taken you 3 or 4 expenses of resources, that last 5% takes something like 10 or more. And it's a tiny amount of benefit to actually complete that, but seeing that empty bit of the gauge feels *so* bad.
thank god they only make you hit 90% to buy the next tier
I think completionism in games is best used as a way to almost pay your respects to a game you really like or even love, to feel a sense of satisfaction that you did all the things the developers wanted you to do, you experienced all that had to offer you. A real life comparison I can think of is when I went to a Francis Bacon exhibit at a museum, I was sort of ambivalent at first but the more pieces I saw and read about his life, the more intrigued I got to see more. At the end I'd stood and looked at pretty much every work on display and really felt like I walked away with a better appreciation of Bacon as an artist.
I knew a dude that got sucked into cheevo farming super hard. He bought tons of games for that 1000 gamerscore despite being jobless, and would skip hanging out so he could stay home and trade kills for mp achieves with his cheevo group.
Playing co-op with him was the worst because he had a little mental checklist of the achieves he wanted and where to farm them and he'd "accidentally" die repeatedly until it he got it
Good achivements build on the gameplay that is already there. Interesting challenges and goals that make me want to play the game more and in different ways are always going to be fun for me. The worst achivements are just busywork that you have to look up a guide for online, usually because its some asinine thing the game refuses to give a clearcut goal / answer to.
I feel this, absolutely. I consider myself mostly an Explorer-type gamer, based on Bartle's theory, so my desire to see 200.6% of SotN's map doesn't come from 'yay I got the trophy,' it comes from _wanting to see the whole map._ See everything the game offers.
This is the reason the only game I've ever platted is Bloodborne. I did everything on my own by accident without looking any of them up, then went to my trophy list and saw I was missing exactly 1 (collect all weapons), realized I'd technically already done it across all my characters, then went to the one that was closest to having it done on one character and knocked it out because why not.
I'll grind and/or do stupid BS on my own time no problem, but ONLY if it's stuff I already wanted to do. Most games have a disconnect between what they think is worth an achievement and what's fun enough to actually get me to do.
Marvels Spiderman and by extension Miles Morales are almost the perfect ratio of Gameplay to Platinum requirements.
That being said. The game its self is SO good and such high quality that "unlock all X" doesn't feel like a chore, just BEING the best spiderman is all you need to do.
Exactly why the first one is the only game I have ever platinumed. I never go after acheivements, but I just naturally wanted to 100% the game due to its design. By the time I had done everything I personally wanted to, I only had a few small trophies left, and just went "fuck it, already so close, let's just finish it off".
I've completly broken off trophy hunting in games for years now and I actively enjoy games more as a result.
Two of the best things that attributed to this was discovering the vendor in Nier Automata that will just straight up SELL you the trophies. Said vendor essentially goes "Dude, we get it. It's a chore. Lots of people burn themselves out for no reason. So here's what I'll do for ya ;D"
I dont have to drag through lvling and playing with builds in niche ways that dont feel fun or attribute to the overall game I bought to play.
The 2nd is when we were given the option to turn off achievement/trophy unlocks.
"Optimizing the fun out of games" is the best way I could describe the feeling. Its all ultimately pre-installed fluff, especially if it doesnt attribute to my enjoyment or sense of mastering of the game.
I'm not going to do every single dungeon and its puzzles in BOTW only to have the reward be armor or a weapon that breaks after 3 minutes of use. Over time it comes off as a chore. I can just farm weapons in the open and get the same results. The ability to FIND a path that is most effencient/enjoyable for me trumps the challenge more times than not imo.
I hit Plat, on Steam or PSN, for stuff I enjoy. I ended up getting 100% on Cyberpunk 2077, took me like two or three weeks, took my time, and made me appreciate the game a bit more even. Looked at some guides for help too but the comments? It's like some of these folk had a gun to their heads by CDPR to finish it, was wild to see.
It absolutely can. There have been multiple people coming into the Xrd discord asking "Hey, what's the best way to get your rank up, it's hard to find people on ranked" purely for the achievements, only to find out that the universal answer is "No one plays ranked, it's barely functional and has no region locking so you WILL get terrible matches. Just play player lobbies instead." and either quit or still play and just have a miserable time
Yeah as a guy who probably will never get a high rank in FGs not just because of skill but also distance, it sucks not being able to 100% them as my favorite genre when you're required to reach the "gold" rank.
Not a good reason to stop playing though, worst case scenario they can just try and meet a partner over and over again maybe ?
I watched this video while achievement hunting. I do it cause it feels good to get achievements, to get all the achievements in a game, and to get an achievement for getting all the achievements in a game
Funny story about achievements ruining people's experiences
Back in the 360 days, every Tuesday my local video rental shop would let you rent any game for just $2, and I did that a lot because I was poor af and wanted to play a lot of different games now that I was old enough to ride a bike there by myself. This led to me having a fairly high gamerscore not from completionism or anything, but just from all the achievements I got passively playing the games adding up over time
It made my brother absolutely furious because my made up gamer number was bigger than his made up gamer number, and he started hate-playing games to 100% completion just to try and catch up to me, even if he was having a horrible time with the game (which just made him angrier about the whole situation)
I always saw achievements as something to do if you don't want to stop playing after the game is over. Ace Combat 7 uses them to this degree well outside of the multiplayer ones, having an achievement for finding and killing all these hidden planes that have special requirements for even spawning which act as challenges in themselves (such as beating a part of a mission in x amount of time, or flying though *insert narrow and high risk area to fly in*) I played the full campaign multiple times just to get this one, and i had a blast as it tested my skill level and often led to me finding good but otherwise unconventional tactics in the missions just to spawn the planes themselves, which also acted as a good way to farm mp to purchase the higher end planes and parts I hadn't yet gotten.
After finishing a game I’ll always look at the achievements. If it looks like something I could do and enjoy, I’ll do it. I will not do achievements if they’re crazy, or just for the purpose of seeing those trophies pop. I guess the disconnect with getting the endorphins from the process and not achievements themselves helps out a lot
While not as servere, I've got similar tendencies to Pat, so I understand where he's coming from. One place I like achievements? Sandbox sort of stuff, like Paradox grand strategy. When the main thing to do is just run an empire, achievements are like "Hey, what if you play THIS WAY?" It's almost all just ideas for different runs.
I don't have much of a completionist streak in me, but if a game is a 10/10 for me, I'll hunt down every trophy because I want to squeeze every drop of fun the game has to offer.
Achievement hunting is one of those things that, despite being someone who likes seeing Number Go Up, I just can't bring myself to do unless it's in a game I really enjoy and the platinum is stupid easy to get.
Which is why most of my platinums are from visual novels, lol.
The only game I ever intentionally tried to get every achievement in was Call of Duty 4 back in the day. That one achievement to beat the post-game plane level on the hardest difficulty took me about three days of constant attempts to finally get. I was so fucking annoyed and done with the game that I didn't play it for a long time and never bothered going for 100% achievements ever again.
The only other game I did that with was when I got 100% trophies in Tekken 7, but I wasn't actually trying to do it and it just naturally happened as I played it so I don't count that one as achievement hunting.
Friend of mine has lost multiple PlayStation accounts because they keep getting caught with hacked trophies they payed someone to get. Probably spent hundreds of dollars doing that and who knows how much on lost games. They continue to do it.
Generally, I'll just scan through the list before I start a game to see if there's anything that seems completely out of my ability, and that's what determines if I try for 100% or not. Seeing multiplayer achievements, or shit like mahjong in Yakuza let me breathe a sigh of relief. Death Stranding had a good achievement system, cause it was just playing and exploring the game for everything it had, which was the point of the game, IMHO. But, when I finally start Y7, I'm just going to play casually, because I already have no intention of maxing out mahjong or hostess clubs (unless there's content behind it, like in 0 and real estate).
The big thing for me is completion itself means different things for different games. Like Woolie mentioned with Braid having its own internally tracked objectives that have no Achievements attached to them whatsoever, then that means “Platinuming” Braid =/= “Completing” Braid. Platinum Trophies/getting all the Achievements is a good baseline but often isn’t the full story. I usually come up with my own completion criteria on a case by case basis and try to get as close as I feasibly can, but I know my limits and there’s very often things that I decide right away I’m never going to achieve and therefore I save myself the headache of even trying. I am okay with this and it’s a system that works for me, but like Pat said many people would be unable to accept this and can easily have their experience with a game ruined by outlandish completionist criteria. So all of this is to say that it really depends on the game and the player’s own tolerances and sensibilities.
I trophy hunt only games that I really enjoy or if the platinum is manageable. If it requires something ridiculous or playing a game multiple times then I don’t bother. I’ll just enjoy the game. Sometimes I’ll play through a game, see what’s left to do and decide on what I want to do. I don’t go for completion if the game doesn’t require it for the platinum ie witcher 3.
The other day I was playing Rollerdrome and was trying to complete all the challenges. The game is incredibly fun, but trying to complete some of the late game challenges was just impossible at my skill level. Once I gave up on that I started having way more fun just playing the game while not holding myself to any kind of specific standard. If I had insisted on trying to do everything it would have absolutely ruined the game for me.
Yeah, I got Rollerdrome yesterday while it was on sale and the game is a TON of fun - Tony Hawk meets Ratchet: Deadlocked. However, the later challenges are insane and require you to play the game perfectly. Beating the level in an alloted time while pulling off big tricks, not getting hit, doing perfect sniper shot dodges, grinding and picking up collectables starts to drain the fun.
Out for Blood is legit hard but it's satisfying to finish. The challenges were much easier in comparison.
The trophies don't mean shit though since you can activate cheats and still earn them apparently.
I like perfecting Souls games because the achievements are generally exploration based and not "do this hard/gimmicky thing" or "grind this thing" (offline covenant grinds notwithstanding, FUCK the DS3 Darkmoon covenant). Also helps that I spread it out over multiple characters so something like "Collect all Pyromancies" becomes "Try building around pyromancy this time."
I stopped my completionist attitude way back with Assassin’s Creed Brotherhood. There was a store for the multiplayer with cosmetic items using in-game currency (microtransactions hadn’t caught on yet), and the most expensive and rarest icons and skins were beyond crazy. I realized I would have to play for longer than the servers would run to afford it all, even if I played perfectly and never failed in any way in every single match. It was a hard lesson to learn as a kid who bought into the hype with every game release, but I eventually learned it.
I always ALWAYS start casual and focus on enjoying the game FIRST. Then achieve and do extras. People are free to enjoy their games however they wish, but I'll never get fully achieving EVERYTHING the first go round. Lol
I loved the hell out of Sekiro so much that I was considering going for 100% completion, something which I rarely ever do. However, after beating the game once and then playing through the gauntlet challenges, I decided against it. As much as I loved it and wanted more, more, more, I noticed that at the end of my gauntlet run, I felt like the bosses were slowly being reduced from memorable characters to a set of memorizable moves and patterns that could be exploited. I didn't want the game and my memories of it to lose that beautiful mystique, so I left it behind.
I think the best achievements are the ones that encourage you to play in an unorthodox or unusual way.
Nope. The best achievements are the ones that REWARD YOU for playing in an "unorthodox" way, not try to influence you aka encourage aka manipulate.
Recently I did the one bullet in Half life 2 episode 1. Actually pretty fun. Same with playing the base game in Ravenholm and only using your gravity gun and traps. Puts the full physics engine on display
if a game truly impresses me in the first hours I will absolutely strive for its achievements. Did that with Valfaris, Pillars of E, BG1,2, Slayn, Bloodstained etc. don't feel like it was ruined at all
The experience of completing a game is definitely impacted by how many of the trophies are just not fun or even challenging. Getting max happiness for a settlement in Fallout 4 was a giant pain but at least all the other trophies weren’t terrible.
My anxiety about not being a completionist has gotten down but there are still games that have certain systems that just give me huge anxiety, especially if the game constantly reminds you of them. Games with battle passes or showing percent of completion/collectibles you missed when beat a mission or pull up a basic menu bother the shit out of me.
WoW does actually have catch-up mechanics but it didn’t always and some players would literally have hissy fits over the mere concept that people who don’t play 12 hours every day could get to somewhat even footing with those who do. Not even actually even footing, just close enough to run content that was just added.
Pat was absolutely correct on the habit of GOW Ragnarok's type of unlocks for people like me. In Ratchet and Clank, a favorite series of mine, you upgrade weapons by using them (allthough newer games also have a second resource for upgrades like Raritanium), so I end up trying to max all my weapons out before the finale. This leads me to sometimes grind just to make sure all my weapons are at simillar levels, even ones that are useless or not that fun. I find beating the final boss with all my Lv.5 arsenal euphoric.
Felt this absolutely with the new God of War. The game felt designed to do everything as you pass it for the first time(or second time once you get the you-know-what), such that if you did miss a couple things you'd spend 10-20 minutes just getting to the spot you had to so you could hit a thing with an axe and then run all the way back. Sure for a boss fight it felt more worthwhile, but I looked at those half dozen relics and ravens and realized that getting them even with a guide would be like 3-4 hours of work without a single minute of the fun puzzles or combat to break up the monotony.
The cheevo hunting days have died down since the early 360 days, but I definitely remember people buying shit garbage games that let them get 1000 gamerscore in like 20 minutes. I think early on Microsoft was also trying to hype up your gamerscore like you could use if for discounts or purchases or digital items and such (not that it ever came to fruition)
Pat: that's what Niflheim is for
Thank you guys for talking about this, trophies/achievements give me the worst anxiety. I prefer to turn the trophy notifications off so I can just enjoy the game. I tend to get all achievements is it consists in "just playing the game", I avoid collectibles and insane difficulty challenges.
I only play games on PlayStation if I can platinum it. Certain ones I’ll look and see the difficulty but when I finish games like dmc trilogy, dissidia nt and all the kingdom hearts games it feels good to finally beat them. On switch it’s done when I think it’s done. Bayonettas are done when I beat the platinum ticket, breathe of the wild was done when I did and found everything even all 900 koroks.
Some are fun until that point of clean up, sometimes turning a game I enjoyed into a frustrating experience. (The messenger)
Some encourage you to do things you’ll want to do anyways (god of war ragnarok)
Still, plan on playing crash 4 and dmc4se soon so it’s a love hate relationship for sure
One of the only games I got the Platinum was the original Demons Souls. I got the Plat on it like a few months after the game released, I'm happy about it cause it's nostalgic to think about how I was there from the beginning of the Souls games but I in no way chase that completionist mindset cause that's so unfun to me. If a grind is fun to complete then I may go for it but otherwise I'll play and finish a game and then move on until I get the craving to replay it.
I used to compete with someone to get as many PlayStation platinums as possible. I had around 30 before I realised I had almost gone insane from doing the uncharted games on the highest difficulty, buying a strategy guide to find all the shards in infamous 1 (A guide that was fucking wrong btw) and playing abominations like terminator salvation because it's trophy list is very easy to complete. I fucking hate achievements, that shit is poison if you have OCD and I'm genuinely grateful that the switch doesn't have them and I hope Nintendo never does.
You can both enjoy completing a game and be a bit anxious about completing it btw.
I hate my completionism, but I can't help it. FOMO is being weaponized in the modern gaming industry, especially in the MMO genre, and it hit me like a train filled with trucks filled with bricks. I had to stop playing two of my favorite games of all time, Lord of the Rings Online and Star Wars: The Old Republic, because I just couldn't keep up. I didn't have the time, I didn't have the will to keep catching up with everything new that came out, and I definitely didn't have the desire to keep paying for it. Don't even get me started on Destiny. I still play Star Trek Online, but only due to so many caveats and exceptions that would take too long to lay out.
Now I play War Thunder, and it's so much worse. There are over 2,000 planes, tanks, ships, and helicopters across ten different main nations (and even more smaller ones), almost all of which I would love to play at some point. I love military history more than anything. I love aviation, I love armored vehicles, guns, equipment, all of it. I want to study them, learn everything there is to know about them, research and play them all, unlock all of their upgrades, put decals on them all to look as historical as possible. Most of what I do has absolutely no logic or reason to anyone else, but I do it because that's how my mind works. I hate it when I think about it, but it's become very clear, I'm rarely in my right mind.
i think spider-man ps4/remastered is honestly one of the best achievement-dense games i've played in a long while where most of the achievements are just there to drive you to try most of the content at least once, and I think there's maybe an achievement for getting *one* gold medal on challenge missions but generally the most they ask for on the extreme end is "just get silver to prove you at least made a real effort on most of these"
Screwball can go to hell though.
@@bargaintuesday812 a bit.
I very much agree with that ShumpGodPat approach to achievements. Play through the game without any pressure first, grab what achievements you can but don't stress. Then go back and do clean up with a guide.
Also, if I look at an achievement and I know I would have to put in so much effort to get it that it wouldn't be fun anymore I don't bother. Could I beat an FPS on hard with the default pistol? Yes, theoretically. Would I have fun doing it? Hell no.
My turning point with achievements was the recent doom game, trying to complete it on that difficultly where you restart on death, much trial and error later I died at the 2/3 point. I realised that I could eventually do it with enough repetition, but I had already passed the point where I was having fun, so walked away and never looked back.
I really like Suzy on the podcast. She brings a good balance between Pat and Woolie.
i think i decided for myself that fighting games are not worth trying to get achievements in or literally any game that has online achievements because they are horribly designed and expect the game to keep having a consistent player base forever or they just become completely unobtainable once the online servers go down
HAPPY NEW YEAR WOOLZIE!
Tbh the only games I've ever Platinumed (besides Telltale stuff which just give it to you) are Persona 5: Royal because that's my favourite game of all time and I realised I only needed like 3 trophies after my first playthrough, P5 Dancing (please don't judge...) which once again was because it seemed easy and Apex Legends which I got all the achievements in by accident while playing. Basically anything that seems like too much of a grind I probably won't bother with.
The part about WoW is just as same as with Destiny 2 with the pinnacle grind and fear of sunsetting with every 3 seasons going bye-bye, meaning the only way to get older gear is either through Xur or Dares of Eternity. You miss one week of a season and you’re already behind pinnacle gear and now, crafting progress, with it being recommended by most hardcore players to have 3 characters cause it makes the grind faster in time for Grandmaster’s, which are +15 above pinnacle level, which also means constant bounty grinding and hoarding to boost your level, especially if a raid releases and you wanna do it day 1 and use the artifact abilities to help
As an achievement hunter myself, I take the first aproach where I play a game normally no guides or anything unless I get REALLY stuck, and then get a guide for the achievements that I missed. I feel like looking up guides before minute one of playing will just ruin your experience.
I never get games FOR the achievement lists, I just get games I think will be fun and will then complete them because I like seeing that 100% achievement bar filled out. There are some games that are absolutely miserable when going for all the achievements, but generally I feel like my approach hasn't negatively affected my experience all that much
I kind of just set my own goals for completion based on how much I like the game. For example, after beating the final boss of Sonic Frontiers I went to each island and revealed the whole map, got S ranks on all the stages, and got enough tokens for all the character interactions. I did not, however, get all the achievements since it would require grinding for stat boosting items at the fishing mini game and that just seemed like a slog
Funny how theres so much anxiety over this when like.. I've only ever played games though for fun at first. Then if I know I enjoyed it and WANT to get everything I'll dive back in and be a bit more methodical later on.
The only time I'll ever dive in and complete EVERYTHING in one-go is if I've somehow been told or picked up that "you'll want X and Y for this one part Z later in the game" and I might then course-correct to save myself a lot of trouble.
I feel like Ray Navarez Jr might not like this discussion, as much as I love Ray and his content
Short answer No, Completionists actually greatly enjoy 100%-ing a game, and a few even frequently record and post their efforts so that others who are less focused and able to complete a game can see and understand what they skipped to some extent.
Long Answer - Their existence and love of Easter Eggs and secrets has kind of ruined the AAA games space. Once Publishers realized they could monetize that shit in various ways, it became a cynical cash-grab where completing a game meant nothing - there was no bonus content or super cool god-item or amazing lore implication, it was just 100% Way to go, Here's a few meaningless badges on your account.
It has also ruined many of the low-tier shovelware games - because when there's a market for meaningless trophies, it takes 1 week to shit out a game with 100 trophies requiring only 30 minutes to obtain as the only substance, you can sell that game for 2-5$ and it costs only 100-200$ to publish on Steam or some other E-Shop, you get deluged with terrible, miserable games.
It's not the completionists' faults however, the AAA game space was already headed in that direction by the 2000s. Publishers just saw an exploitable mental phenomena of (usually) the neurodivergent and just kept doubling down on it.
And from the perspective of a former completionist of the 8-, 16- and 32- bit eras (as well as a little beyond), the current blueprint *IS* miserable. I've definitely stopped caring about 'Chevos. After the start of the Mobile and AAA "Hey we just released a DLC for 20$, and all those completed games, or games you were about to complete, now have 20 new achievements locked behind that DLC that you will never get access to, and you can no longer get the '100% game completion" achievement because of this - so buy the mediocre DLC that was supposed to be in the base game and we cut out, or live with the gnawing anxiety and depression over being unable to complete the game as intended" era of gaming.
That stuff took away my ability to enjoy most games as fully as I want.
The only game I've ever actively tried to get all achievements on is Skyrim. The thing is, I never actually managed it because the game bugged out somehow so I never got the last achievement: to tame and ride 5 different dragons, even though I undoubtedly did that. To this day, it's the only achievement I still lack in Skyrim and I have no intention of ever getting it, since doing so would mean that I have to play through Skyrim unmodded and that's just not happening.
The good thing about Skyrim is that the achievements are mostly reasonable and getting all of them sort of just shows that you've done everything in it. These days, games tend to have unreasonably difficult and/or time consuming achievements that are just busywork meant to make you stick with the game longer, even though you don't actually find the grind to get the achievements to be fun. And some people will stick with the grind because their brain is forcing them to keep going.
Huh. Actually a smart and reasonable take from pat. I never quite realised why I LOVE jrpgs, but finished less than 5 of them. Including most Final Fantasys except 1,8 and 10, Lost Odyssey, and many more amazing jrpgs. I get hung up on the level up systems (grinding Magic/abilities for all characters in Lost Odyssey and FF6 for example) and sidequests, to the point I burn out on the game. And thats 100% because I can't ignore it and just play the game "normally". It's totally compulsive and to avoid anxiety for not getting all 1000 hidden dog poops hidden in the world or whatever. It even took me a second attempt at witcher 3, because I did literally every "?" on the map before I went to novigrad and skellige.
I'm still getting mad at warframe for having those stupid K-Drive achievments that I spent way too many hours NOT HAVING FUN on, just to get all non MR related achievments
Shout out to that one dude who platinumed FF13 just to make sure that he never has a reason to play that game again.
i have completed far too many games so i can verifiably say yes it does ruin the experience sometimes lol, especially long awful grinds ala black ops 3's camos, but it also means you really wring out the game for everything there is so it does heighten the experience too, so kind of a give & take in the end, though some games are still just truly miserable.
Depends, if it wasn't for achievement hunting I'd never realize Bayonetta had parties and dodgeoff set so....its all about if you enjoy the game, what your goals are, and the developer's intention with the achievements.
Platinum trophy hunter checking in here with my two cents. I have 69 (not joking) platinum trophies under my PSN Akallia. I use try to 100% complete every game I play, but some of them are just too god damn much. I realized I wasn't enjoying myself when I was forcing myself to play through the Yakuza franchise post-games. The games themselves were very enjoyable, but the random chance you have to rely on for some of the trophies made me start to hate the franchise, and I had to re-think the way I was playing. I'll still devote extra time and effort into games and series I love to finish them off (most of the kingdom hearts, Miyazaki games, etc) but for the most part nowadays, if I'm not streaming the game, I treat it a lot more casually. I can't even begin to imagine the thought of trying to finish the platinum in something like monster hunter world. I've got 700+ hours in it and I'm nowhere close to finishing the trophy list. It would break me.
100% a Yakuza game is something I actively avoid in each game because I don't have that commitment to spend all those hours on mastering every minigame, and I feel it would lessen my already high enjoyment of the series. Besides not being into gambling minigames, I spent several hours trying to understand Mahjong and I still feel lost. I recommend sticking to activities you enjoy and mix them in a casual playthrough.
@@leithaziz2716 the mahjong was the WORST for me lol I had to completely learn how to play that game for Yakuza 0. It's the only platinum in the franchise I've managed to finish. The random rng shit like the rock paper scissors wrestling game was absolutely maddening for me. the bosses and the highest difficulty run with no auto saves were a breath of fresh air after the mahjong grind 😅
Yes absolutely, personally I lose a lot of my own enjoyment when I treat it like a job almost. That’s why Elden Ring is the best game I’ve ever played but I don’t even think of it like one of my favorites.
Their talk about the MMO sprint is the reason I tend to fall off of most of them. The time investment always get me and my friends especially if we’re not playing the same amount. It’s also why I like ESO a lot more then others because I don’t feel like I have a quota to fulfill each week to keep up.
"Do it to avoid being anxious" sounds a bit too familiar. I've definitely had to tear myself away from games and/or force myself back onto the main quest or whatever because I'm not actually having fun going after all the side stuff, I just... Feel the need to do it.
Most games these days let you play to your heart’s content and once completed let you do the cleanup after. I don’t worry about missing trophies on my first playthrough because I know most games have free roam and most games are made in such a way you can’t miss a trophy really.
I view trophies as a the true way to experience the game in its entirety. They will always include main story, side missions, collectables and some other miscellaneous feats the play should perform in game. That way your getting the true experience the developers want from you outside of simply beating the game.
A good trophy list is one that encourages exploration, completion and rewarding the player outside of getting the trophy itself. E.g. Assassin's Creed 2, Dark Souls, Minecraft, Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor, Far Cry 3, Persona 5 Royal. After getting the platinum you should feel like you got a full experience out of these games besides the main story.
A bad trophy list is one that doesn't respect the players time, skill, or knowledge. Like farming covenant items in Dark Souls 3 (which will be worse when the servers inevitably go down in years to come), trophies that need absolute inhuman skill to achieve like Wolfenstein 2's Mien Leben trophy which put a LOT of folks off that game just on that trophy alone, and trophies that are no longer obtainable like Mad Max's platinum trophy because 1 Gold Trophy was tied to 2 server challenges & since they never fixed it when the servers went down, Mad Max is pretty much not worth the effort anymore since the plat is UNOBTAINABLE and can't be TRULY completed. On top of trophies that have RNG, difficulty ratings, online trophies, missable trophies, etc, etc.
So yeah its a real double edge sword, some games are made better by giving you more outside of the campaign, while other actual come out worse by asking the player do do stupid, grindy, restrictive, stressful shit, but if that is what the developers feel was necessary to get everything out of the game, then I feel that's the best way to get a complete view on a game over someone who just beat it once and called it a day.
I keep a balance of games I’m hitting credits for and achievements hunting for things I like.
2:10 the fact that Avatar was the first example was funny to me. i don't think anyone seriously played that game unless they were a fan of it. easy 1000 gamerscore in like 30 mins of gameplay.
i really enjoy being a completionist within reason - generally when i start a game i look up the trophy list to see exactly how much work there is AND if there might be any missable trophies. If there is a reasonable timeframe for getting all the trophies and doing so involves exploring more content the game has to offer without some insane grind, i'll go for it. if there is some stupid RNG that takes forever, i'll pass. i try to avoid replaying games in NG+ if possible
some notable games:
Sekiro - i'm only missing the trophy for getting every single skill, for which i need about 20 skill points since they're the final skills on 2 of the skill trees. I save scummed the endings since the idea of replaying the entire game FOUR times wasn't appealing (did the same for elden ring) but now i have no interest in grinding xp
Death Stranding - I played through the entire game on normal difficulty trying my best to max every location's rank, not knowing the game separately counted achievements towards completing deliveries on hard difficulty. The trophy guide even said to play the game on hard difficulty right from the start to avoid wasting time. Whoops. I did everything except that one, no way i'm going to spend another 30+ hours regrinding.
Witcher 3 - didn't read the trophy list so there are some missable quest related ones that would take 50+ hours to get to if i restarted.
Ni No Kuni 2/Horizon Zero Dawn - have separate trophy lists for the DLC, so you only need to complete the main game trophies to get the platinum - even though in your trophy list it wont say 100% complete.
OG Persona 5 - very difficult to platinum on the 1st playthrough (minus the 1 NG+ trophy) and has some stupid RNG/grindy stuff.
Persona 5 Royal - super achievement friendly, i think its one of the highest % Platinum'd games
Dead Space and God of War (2016) were the few games that I decided to 100%. This was mainly because they were fun to play and the achievements looked doable. I usually dread games that have achievements attached to beating the game at each difficulty. This can be mitigated if you get credit for lower difficulties by beating the game on higher ones. What mainly makes me dread these are most games are lazy at increasing difficulty. It usually turns enemies into damage sponges, the player into tissue, or both. This can make the game boring instead of challenging.
Wolfenstein New Order is a better example of the completion problem because it does the best thing in the worst way with its achievements. You have an achievement per upgrade you can unlock, but those upgrades are gated behind the same trials as GoW Ragnarok.
While i've always known people to do these kinds of things I personally am very fickle I play games to enjoy myself and things like 100%-ing or even beating the game will often take a back seat so much so that if an element I dont like gets in the way of my fun, like not having a romance option with the character I want for the character I'm playing, ill put the game down to "cool off" which usually results in me moving on to the next game that while not as fun doesn't have a similar glaring issue to me
It probably depends on the achievement itself. Something that requires a lot of RNG would be more egregious than something that can be simply grinded out
Not sure if anyone said this but Ray Narvaez Jr literally plays bad games or gamers that are quick 100% but he also has that factor of streaming it as he also laughs about many things and he made it a living and he is hilarious to watch and enjoy
I love that they brought up Death Stranding. I currently have one achievement left and it requires the online servers to be running (which are currently fucked)
I'm definitely compelled by achievements, but it's not to Pat's level where he has to or he doesn't feel right. I've chosen to do boring tasks in otherwise fun games because having that 100% is a good thing in my own mind. I refuse to do unbearable things in good (or bad) games, though. Or to play bad games for an easy achievement score. Examples:
-Gave up on COD Veteran difficulty playthroughs partway through once I stopped having fun.
- Did all the Cyberpunk achievements despite the map clearing aspect and skill maxing ones not being fun to do.
- Gave up on 100%ing games I love because of bad achievement settings (Aliens Fireteam Elite).
- Stuck with some terrible games because the goals were within reach (Avengers...)
I try to strike the balance of "satisfying" completionism and admittedly miss sometimes.
Achievement Hunting should be an enjoyable experience. There are good games with bullshit Achievements, but the goal should be to expand on a good experience with a game
I’ve been playing gow ragnorok on gmgow mode and besides a few hiccups it’s still been a fun expierence as I’m getting closer to completing the whole game and will be probably my first and only platinum achievement
my gripe with Achievements is the way they approach forcing replayability, too many of them are in the veintg of "do this one part of the game you don't care a lot" or "play the game in this particular way"
100% is a good way to tell myself "Yeah I can move on".
Don't really know a game that has been ruined by me doing that, it did force me to contend with awful parts of a game, like wave 50 of Future Soldier's survival mode.
The simple answer is: Yes it can, when the achievements are extremely grindy in a game that does not require grinding.
It makes the grind feel longer than it is and makes you remember the game as stale and boring, because you grinded the whole time for something.
I don't mind achievements/trophies for local/single player games but screw multiplayer achievements/trophies
See sometimes I think I'm above it all, "oh I only go for a Platinum trophy if I really love the game and it doesnt seem tedious", but then I remember for NieR Replicant I manipulated my PS4's internal clock so I could grow Lunar Tears extremely fast so I could get that game's Platinum. And if you're fucking around with system settings to manipulate a game just so you can increase a number next to a PNG, I'd say that's when you're too far gone.
The crime of Doom Eternal is all those secrets displayed on the map
I've never really known achievement hunters, but I do know that for some people they don't even need that. Any multiplayer game with cosmetic unlocks you get guys who literally only care about that and nothing else. Using Call of Duty as an example (because I'm the only person here who plays that so I bring it up to have a unique anecdote) you have these guys year in year out who unlock all the camos by day 2 at the latest and complain that "there's nothing to do" because the dopamine drip has rotted their brain to the point that they forgot there's an actual video game to play for fun. It's not just that ofc, Dead by Daylight has the same issue every new DLC and some Halo fans said that there's no point in playing the game if they can't unlock new helmets, to them the issue wasn't the lack of content in Infinite, they just thought it was pointless to play a well designed if content barren MP because they couldn't unlock a new mediocre helmet (no human being used HAZOP I'm sorry)
The first achivement hunters i know was the group who had their own website before it went down hill
@@Sonicfalcon16 I wonder what that Ryan fellow is up to these days? Surely he's getting into nothing but light hearted shenanigans? And that Geoff character, surely paying his employees fairly and not calling them names?
300 games 100% on PSN here.
My mentality is about this subject is that its a defined personal 'end state' that displays to my OCD brain - I have experienced, unlocked, and achieved a certain level of skill at this particular game that I can say "I'm satisfied with both the game and myself". That being said; I only buy games that interest me, I don't avoid games that are "impossible" to complete, and I don't let the 'grind' make me miserable - should I get there, I move on for the time being.
I do wish multiplayer achievements were either banned, companies were obligated to keep servers/content available, or players had the option to 'opt out' of multiplayer trophies being available to them for completion.
Maybe my wish unreasonable... I fucking hate online multiplayer in general; My hate for it has only grown since about 2013, when my group of friends and I all reached 'post education' phase of life, and we no longer have the time, money, interest, to play together anymore.. I'm now a "random" playing exclusively alongside other randoms, and its infuriating.
I've never found joy in completing a game. I find that if completing a game helps me finish it, then I'll do it, but I simply lose all fun in a game if I simply have nothing else to strive for. RPG's like Xenoblade Chonicle, I finish it and I consider it done.
yo who tf is doin the thumbnails?! the edits are getting funnier
I just wanna play the game. In COD, I only ever unlock camos through playing or by chance, never going for them intentionally. It's the same way with gamerscore and trophies. I've had a ps4 since 2016 and have 84 trophies.
What do you guys think about games that originally didn't have achievements, but received them for a later release? Some examples include: Banjo Kazooie on xbla, or the ratchet and clank and Jak trilogy games. BTW I'm combining trophies and achievement points into one category: achievements.
I don’t know achievement hunter went kinda down hill after ray left
Lately I bought the spyro remake trilogy cuz it was on sale. Just on Switch so no achievements. I managed to get every gem / dragon / orb etc etc I could get for the first 2 games. Working on Year of the Dragon now. Except for the speedway levels. Just because I freaking hate those levels lol. I might go back and force myself to finish those but for now I'm finishing up the levels on the 3rd game. I still feel pretty dang accomplished so its fine.
In my experience, I just play through the story without looking at the achievement list. I'll see what I missed after hitting credits when I'm not at risk of spoilers and may go for the platinum if I'm close to 100%. Unless I really like the game, I won't go for it if there are achievements that require a second playthrough or involve really hard handicaps/ time sinks. No normal person is going to try platinuming Bioshock when one of its trophies requires a deathless run on the hardest difficulty.
as somebody who has now 100% completed every elden-souls-borne game except one, completionism can absolutely make you like a game less. but it HEAVILY depends on what is actually required for 100%. ds3 is the single game i gave up on 100% completing because i was getting absolutely infuriated by a lot of the later bosses, intensified by the knowledge that i would not only need to deal with all of them, but deal with most of them at least twice while ALSO having to run through the game two more times to get all the pointless upgraded rings locked to ng+ cycles for that trophy. i couldnt justify it to myself! every other game in the group i enjoyed the whole way through and didnt feel my experience lessened by the completion, but not ds3. because some of its trophies just straight up feel like chores that pad out your playtime for no reason, like the rings one, paired with a lot of the issues ds3 as a game has, like how my preferred playstyle (spellcasting/melee hybrid) is MISERABLE TO PLAY in it.