INTRODUCTION TO REITS || HOW TO INVEST IN REAL ESTATE INVESTMENT TRUSTS IN KENYA

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  • Опубликовано: 26 сен 2024
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Комментарии • 199

  • @SandraMarySM6
    @SandraMarySM6 9 дней назад +166

    I am at the beginning of my "investment journey", planning to put 85K into dividend stocks so that I will be making up to 30% per year in dividend returns. Any advice?

    • @ElizabethLaura7EL
      @ElizabethLaura7EL 9 дней назад

      Investing without proper guidance can lead to mistakes and losses. I've learned this from my own experience.If you're new to investing or don't have much time, it's best to get advice from an expert.

    • @CharlotteAmeliaC4Y
      @CharlotteAmeliaC4Y 9 дней назад

      The issue is people have the "I want to do it myself mentality" but not equipped enough for a crash, hence get burnt. Ideally, advisors are reps for investing jobs, and at first-hand encounter, my portfolio has yielded over 300% since 2020 just after the pandemic to date.

    • @OliverBenjamin8O
      @OliverBenjamin8O 9 дней назад

      Glad to have stumbled on this comment, Please who is the consultant that assist you and if you don't mind, how do I get in touch with them?

    • @CharlotteAmeliaC4Y
      @CharlotteAmeliaC4Y 9 дней назад

      My CFA NICOLE ANASTASIA PLUMLEE a renowned figure in her line of work. I recommend researching her credentials further... She has many years of experience and is a valuable resource for anyone looking to navigate the financial market..

    • @OliverBenjamin8O
      @OliverBenjamin8O 9 дней назад

      I just googled her and I'm really impressed with her credentials; I reached out to her since I need all the assistance I can get. I just scheduled a caII.

  • @beverlyogolah5872
    @beverlyogolah5872 27 дней назад +7

    I dont know how i found you but im glad i did because im learning so much from your coaching.

  • @blesseddiana7600
    @blesseddiana7600 3 месяца назад +31

    I love the foundation of this topic REITS, I now understand it better unlike before. You're such an amazing gem coach. Have really grown financially through your channel. Thank you so much and God bless you.

  • @Ranlikeforeest
    @Ranlikeforeest Месяц назад +5

    0:00-5:20 What are REITS
    5:22-9:54 How to make money on REITS
    9:56- 24:30- Why it is an attractive investment
    24:40- 26:30 - Vuka Advertisement
    26:39- 28:40- What is an Income REIT
    30:21- 32:18- Vuka Advertisement Again: + Hidden cost KSH 299
    32:54-35:23- Plans when Investing in REITS

  • @eunicepeter5390
    @eunicepeter5390 3 месяца назад +23

    Who else hit that like button ❤.... Coach you really are doing a great job 💯🔥

    • @judithejang5373
      @judithejang5373 3 месяца назад

      I always just know is good stuff, so i first hit the like button before i watch aaha.

  • @alicekanyana7277
    @alicekanyana7277 3 месяца назад +17

    Profoundly insightful, please kindly host someone from Vuka for further light. We're forever grateful❤

  • @ndetegitau6237
    @ndetegitau6237 3 месяца назад +13

    I hope Vuka see the value of your community and send us someone to break down further the information and partner with you long term.

  • @daveparko3519
    @daveparko3519 3 месяца назад +10

    REITs is a relatively new investments vehicle in kenya but I have heard about it since year 2004 in USA, Now coach Susan thanks for talking about Vuka. I have heard of Qwetu students accommodation and the beautiful thing about REITS is being mandated to pay dividends twice a year. I am an investor and that very informative so I won't mind investing in REITS.

  • @waitherachebbe3150
    @waitherachebbe3150 21 день назад +1

    Whenever I need clarity on an investment project I look for Susan's input.
    Legit information

  • @shizdequeen
    @shizdequeen 3 дня назад

    Glad 😊 to reach up to you, now I know about REITS looking forward to knowing more before I start it

  • @achibabs
    @achibabs 3 месяца назад +9

    Thank you Susan for this. Despite investing, I have never heard of REITs. Never knew of a trust fund focusing on just real estate. We learn every day...Asante mwalimu!

  • @deemakambi2172
    @deemakambi2172 Месяц назад +2

    I have listened to this twice. Thank you. You have no idea how much you have helped me.

  • @MonarchBrayoo
    @MonarchBrayoo 3 месяца назад +15

    IF MY MATHS TEACHER WAS THIS DETAILED BACK THEN.....

  • @FaithMuturi-e9r
    @FaithMuturi-e9r 7 дней назад

    Awesome! I started investing with VUKA about two years ago but your talk here has inspired me so much that I am going to try and expand my portfolio.

  • @catherinendungu9258
    @catherinendungu9258 3 месяца назад +4

    This is very informative Coach Susan. Thank you for simplifying finance jargon that is a hindrance to financial literacy.
    I am sold😊

  • @sassyntrendycosmetics7406
    @sassyntrendycosmetics7406 3 месяца назад +4

    I didn't know anything about Real Estate Investment Trusts in Kenya now l know and thanks for explaining it so clearly. Am going to consider this as a portfolio

  • @dorahmulinge3800
    @dorahmulinge3800 3 месяца назад +4

    Never even heard of REIT, here to learn

  • @blesseddiana7600
    @blesseddiana7600 3 месяца назад +6

    Been waiting for you to bring this topic here. I pumped into it somewhere and wasn't sure if it's legit. Thank God you brought it. It's a good sign.

  • @talensc12
    @talensc12 3 месяца назад +4

    I am very happy that you have talked about this. I emailed you a couple of times asking if you could address us about Vuka and you have finally done it. Thank you Susan

  • @joshuamutua6784
    @joshuamutua6784 2 месяца назад +2

    Great information. I wish I knew this several years back

  • @lizzym1162
    @lizzym1162 27 дней назад +1

    Susan, I watch you from Australia and I love your work. You are very informative and doing a great job. Ahsante

  • @j9_njoroge
    @j9_njoroge 3 месяца назад +4

    Brilliant video!. Personally i like the VUKA I-REIT in Kenya. 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

  • @peninnahmuiruri9583
    @peninnahmuiruri9583 3 месяца назад +3

    Thank you coach, This is gold to me. Its amazing how you explain clearly. May God bless you abundantly.

  • @shadrackkimweli7066
    @shadrackkimweli7066 Месяц назад +1

    You are the best Financial literacy coach, Thank you so much💝

  • @Deby95
    @Deby95 3 месяца назад +3

    Dear coach ,may you live long you are a precious gem❤❤❤❤

  • @ruthrono5482
    @ruthrono5482 3 месяца назад +7

    joined Vuka in April. thanks couch for elaborate explanation.

  • @cillahm
    @cillahm Месяц назад +1

    Coach Suzie you are a blessing to my generation

  • @gracekamau6529
    @gracekamau6529 3 месяца назад +5

    Good morning coach. Ready to learn. Thanks 🎉🎉🎉🎉

  • @Nancynana254
    @Nancynana254 3 месяца назад +4

    Have been waiting for this topic from you

  • @paulakavita6347
    @paulakavita6347 3 месяца назад +2

    The video I have been waiting for! Thank you for simplifying it and the plug as well.

  • @derrickirimi9343
    @derrickirimi9343 3 месяца назад +2

    Woow. That's my coach. God bless you

  • @mutukuivy1686
    @mutukuivy1686 3 месяца назад +2

    Yeahh.... That's me, already hitting the like button even before watching the video....
    Can't wait to gain more. Thanks Coach.😊😊

  • @sheilawaiguru7708
    @sheilawaiguru7708 3 месяца назад +1

    Watching this now😅I’m always late to watch but thank you so much for enlightening us…you truly are heaven sent . Keep teaching us the in’s and outs of investing and building wealth !!🥳👏🏽👏🏽

  • @dmwas.
    @dmwas. 3 месяца назад +5

    That is a great overview of REITS.
    What I like about it is the "low" entry amount, the underlying investment (real estate) offers diversification into real estate, one can put in additional capital at lower amounts as well, the WHT is 5% not so bad.
    What I don't like is that the value of the units can fluctuate, the dividend payout is dependent on earnings and not sure how much it fluctuates, there is a 1% fee to exit (its not a lot but the more money have in it the more costlier that gets) I could be wrong but am pretty certain there is a management fee in the woodworks somewhere, it could be worked out in the returns such that whatever dividend allocation shared is less the management fee - there is no free lunch.
    Generally what I don't like is inherently some of the risks of investing in this asset class.
    Otherwise, that is a great video on REITS - of course minus the sales pitch - lol - that's just me.

    • @mukuhinjenga9489
      @mukuhinjenga9489 3 месяца назад

      Absolutely right, and the culture of corruption that has become the norm in our society, after all inherent expenses and management fee, there will be no dividends to take home. Better buy what is referred to as idle land and put up Mabati temporary structures and grow from there.

    • @dmwas.
      @dmwas. 3 месяца назад

      @@mukuhinjenga9489 From their financial reports, in 2022 they paid a dividend of 0.64 per unit and in 2023 paid 0.77 per unit. So in 2023 if you had 100K invested that is 4545.45 units @.77 that's Ksh 3,500 before taxes and whatever fees that could be associated with the investment. I could be wrong but that is how I interpret the math. So to be fair there is some dividends right there. Is it worth the investment? Can one get better returns in a different investment vehicle? That is a different question and up to each investor to decide. Again the challenge with buying land and putting up the mabati structure is the upfront capital which REITS tries to address.

  • @monicahwangechi1753
    @monicahwangechi1753 Месяц назад +1

    Very insightful gal

  • @JoanGachoki-zb8jm
    @JoanGachoki-zb8jm 3 месяца назад +1

    Morning Coach. I know nothing other than the buy & build traditions. I look forward to my bubble being "burst".

  • @davidmwanzia6920
    @davidmwanzia6920 3 месяца назад +5

    Wow couch Susan,keep it up n may God keep adding u more knowledge to save His people,makofi dadangu

  • @evangotho5688
    @evangotho5688 3 месяца назад +2

    Thanks for explaining this so well.

  • @TimothyK17
    @TimothyK17 3 месяца назад +4

    Taking notes 📝💻📝

  • @maggiemungai2540
    @maggiemungai2540 19 дней назад

    As always I have learnt something new from you Coach Susan. As always you are on point doing it in the best way you know how. All the best to you

  • @margiekimani6581
    @margiekimani6581 3 месяца назад +2

    Thank you Susan …

  • @Successful_being
    @Successful_being 3 месяца назад +2

    Thank you for this information

  • @olokodanasunday2227
    @olokodanasunday2227 22 дня назад +2

    Yea, I'm a Nigerian and I do listen to your program, please can I invest in real estate from Nigeria?

  • @ARINE-ACHTERSTRAAT04
    @ARINE-ACHTERSTRAAT04 3 месяца назад +4

    Thanks my couch 🎉

  • @davidmaase1744
    @davidmaase1744 3 месяца назад +4

    Very educative.

  • @eunicewanjiru7581
    @eunicewanjiru7581 Месяц назад +1

    Good staff.

  • @Carolowoko
    @Carolowoko 3 месяца назад +2

    Lovely, well said and explained very clearly, now I know about REITs and I look forward to investing in

    • @vukainvestment3424
      @vukainvestment3424 3 месяца назад

      Looking forward to assisiting through this journey.

    • @WinnieNduta-th4sr
      @WinnieNduta-th4sr 2 месяца назад

      ​@@vukainvestment3424hello I just listened this video now how can I join vuka?

  • @florencezale774
    @florencezale774 3 месяца назад +3

    This is soo profound

  • @Muchirigraphics3
    @Muchirigraphics3 3 месяца назад +2

    Thank you it was helpful and insightful am happy I learnt something new.

  • @terrynjoki3086
    @terrynjoki3086 3 месяца назад +1

    This was amazing well explained

  • @worldwideinspiration.6842
    @worldwideinspiration.6842 3 месяца назад +1

    We’ve been waiting for this. Thanks for delivering it well coach ❤

  • @NNNjeri
    @NNNjeri 3 месяца назад +4

    That was very informative! I am glad to have come across your channel recently. However, I still have my reservations in investing in real estate firms after the Cytonn scandal. Let me just stick to MMFS…

    • @annchelangat3865
      @annchelangat3865 3 месяца назад

      Bonds.stocks?Balanced funds?bond funds?fxds?

    • @vukainvestment3424
      @vukainvestment3424 3 месяца назад

      We understand your concerns, its wise to invest in regulated products with proper structure when it comes to real estate investing. We also encourage you to consider diversifying to other asset classes.

  • @EstherNjuguna-c3z
    @EstherNjuguna-c3z 7 дней назад

    very good

  • @tilaskilonzo7369
    @tilaskilonzo7369 3 месяца назад +3

    Very educative

  • @BHS_Africa_Pod
    @BHS_Africa_Pod Месяц назад +1

    I am so glad to see REITS in Kenya... I had seen this in UK markets and it seems like an investment most of us would benefit a lot from. Thanks a lot for this well thought out and insightful dive into an alternative form of asset class that lets regular mwananchi own a part of real estate! Great job

  • @lifemakeover6338
    @lifemakeover6338 20 дней назад

    Suzie ,thank you for sharing this insights.i personally celebrate you.receive your flowers.You need to plan dinner for the end of the year for club members.people will give testimonies.❤❤❤

  • @johnkimani91
    @johnkimani91 3 месяца назад +4

    Hallo couch I like to start investing in security market please advice me on one stock broker I would do business with

  • @gracekamau6529
    @gracekamau6529 3 месяца назад +3

    Very insightful.. .. please invite someone from Vuka as you have stated to give us the nitty gritty stuff.
    One on one conversation is always best.

  • @margaretwawira8010
    @margaretwawira8010 2 месяца назад

    This is really insightful. I love this idea.

  • @ruthgitau7515
    @ruthgitau7515 3 месяца назад +1

    Hey Susan, this is awesome, I love this foundtion.

  • @PeterMungai-p6u
    @PeterMungai-p6u 3 месяца назад +2

    Dipak loves you

  • @sam_orville
    @sam_orville 3 месяца назад +9

    Hi Coach,the last time I checked their ROI was about 5%.What will convince me to choose REITs and leave MMFS which we all know have ROI of above 13%
    Remember we are all fighting against inflation.

    • @skylarngugi9894
      @skylarngugi9894 3 месяца назад +11

      You do not need to be convinced to leave MMF, she asking you to add another road aka diversification) to your financial freedom. Not all roads to financial freedom are the same 13 lanes aka 13% ROI some are 5 lanes . The goal is to keep adding more roads so that if there is a road closure on one road you my dear are still moving. The Goal is to LIVE in FINANCIAL FREEDOM ESTATE! SOFT LIFE ehhh.

  • @JoanGachoki-zb8jm
    @JoanGachoki-zb8jm 3 месяца назад +2

    Thank you coach. I am taking baby steps to save & invest. Please receive your flowers from me.

  • @wilsonsakat2209
    @wilsonsakat2209 3 месяца назад +4

    Hi Susan congratulations for your good coaching courses , keep up the good work 👍 and is Vuka office in Narok county

    • @abumagiokiplasma4711
      @abumagiokiplasma4711 3 месяца назад

      Vuka online..reach out to their customer care

    • @annchelangat3865
      @annchelangat3865 3 месяца назад +2

      Go listen to @The Weath tribe,she's delved further

  • @esther9968
    @esther9968 3 месяца назад +2

    Nice topic

  • @zaweriahmunga1775
    @zaweriahmunga1775 3 месяца назад +1

    Very informative thanks girl

  • @Tausibeib
    @Tausibeib 28 дней назад +3

    Hello Susan ,how can l open mmf from real estate

  • @vahidd6835
    @vahidd6835 22 дня назад

    I would be interested to compare different REITs actively in the market too. Can you make such a video too please?

  • @musaukithuka3233
    @musaukithuka3233 29 дней назад +2

    A good plan for all groups

  • @fredricknyakuna2842
    @fredricknyakuna2842 3 месяца назад +1

    Take us through bitcoin and crypto currency.....

  • @enossagini4638
    @enossagini4638 3 месяца назад +1

    Susan, good information about investment my first time to here about this.
    How can. I register if I'm outside the country-Enos

  • @patriciaayebare2919
    @patriciaayebare2919 3 месяца назад +3

    Morning, first time I am hearing about this

    • @vukainvestment3424
      @vukainvestment3424 3 месяца назад

      Awesome. We would like to get to know better, tell you more about us and see how we can add value to your investment goals.

  • @factsactually.
    @factsactually. 3 месяца назад +3

    Hey, love your channel. I found that branch app offers a fixed acc. for a flat rate of 16%.would you recommend them?

  • @Simplymbithe
    @Simplymbithe 2 месяца назад

    This was super insightful ❤❤thankyouu‼️

  • @judithejang5373
    @judithejang5373 3 месяца назад +2

    Thanks coach Susan, you always come in handy, thank you. am watching from Uganda, how do i follow, i tried and it only shows Mpesa

    • @vukainvestment3424
      @vukainvestment3424 3 месяца назад +1

      Hello, you can also invest via bank transfer etc. The investment is only open to Kenyan citizens at the moment.

  • @norahombwayo4825
    @norahombwayo4825 3 месяца назад +2

    Have not heard of them

  • @tabithamuthonikiarie4767
    @tabithamuthonikiarie4767 3 месяца назад +1

    Insightful, helpful...

  • @arthurgumbo5597
    @arthurgumbo5597 3 месяца назад +4

    Thanks Coach. Can you mention the difference between D-REIT & I-REIT ?

    • @thomasorungo6898
      @thomasorungo6898 3 месяца назад +9

      @arthurgumbo5597 D-REIT focus is on development of commercial properties say, shopping complexes, office space complex and such infrastructure. It’s ROI is usually big. You also require at least Ksh 5million to invest in D-REIT. That’s why most investors in it are big orgs or institutions, and pockets of wealthy individuals. I-REIT is more on rental income. It’s more of being a virtual landlord. These angle of investment products are more common in the developed world as compared to developing countries. Kenya stands out as one amongst the few firsts in Africa with these class of investment

  • @patrickmasiolo8939
    @patrickmasiolo8939 3 месяца назад +7

    Waiting for the link of vuka

    • @susan.wanjiku_
      @susan.wanjiku_  3 месяца назад

      It is in the description box of this video.

  • @Sophiakiruja
    @Sophiakiruja 3 месяца назад +1

    Hi Susan. Please share details on Business name registration & Company name registration. Differences, under what circumstances do you choose to register business name or company & so forth. I hope you come across this text.
    Thank you ❤

  • @blesseddiana7600
    @blesseddiana7600 3 месяца назад +5

    The minimum number of units one can buy is 10. Currently one unit is Kshs. 22.03

    • @sumayrenatus482
      @sumayrenatus482 3 месяца назад +2

      I am from Tanzania,
      Can i buy shares to VUKA?

    • @vukainvestment3424
      @vukainvestment3424 3 месяца назад

      @@sumayrenatus482 Hi, you can only do so if you are a Kenyan Citizen at the moment.

  • @josephinederoon5611
    @josephinederoon5611 2 месяца назад

    Amazing!!! Thank you!!

  • @josephkorir5118
    @josephkorir5118 3 месяца назад +2

    Will the I-REIT company tell the investor the estate they are investing in? eg we are building a commerical house ABC

  • @StacyKinyanjui
    @StacyKinyanjui 3 месяца назад +4

    What potential risks or disadvantages can REITs have?

  • @Tech-nr1rf
    @Tech-nr1rf 3 месяца назад +2

    This is good. How can I join vuka

  • @henrykuria6110
    @henrykuria6110 3 месяца назад

    Good Day Susan and thank you for sharing the information. what are some of the REIT investments you can recommend in Kenya.

  • @rewelkariuki419
    @rewelkariuki419 3 месяца назад +1

    Hi Susan. Thank you for such an informative post.
    Can the REITs units depreciate in value?

    • @vukainvestment3424
      @vukainvestment3424 3 месяца назад

      Hi, the I-REIT units are derived from the Net Asset Value of the Assets. This means the unit price is reflection to the value of the property which constantly appreciates.

  • @SainaAbraham-yw5ed
    @SainaAbraham-yw5ed 2 месяца назад

    Thanks for the information, already gain knowledge,apart from nrb,is vuka in other places such as Nakuru or Eldoret?

  • @bedwarsjk5973
    @bedwarsjk5973 Месяц назад

    Hi Susan. Very informative video. As a non Kenyan can I invest in real estate in Keynes?

  • @mercyndirangu6053
    @mercyndirangu6053 2 месяца назад

    That’s good breakdown. However, I personally tried to open an account with Vuka but they have so high charges that amounted upto 17% of your interest.
    They have joining fee, annual fee, 3%on transactions, 15% withholding tax etc. They listed the charges I had to drop my application. Please educate people well if you mean well for them coz majority of many Kenyans don’t thoroughly investigate hidden charges.

    • @susan.wanjiku_
      @susan.wanjiku_  2 месяца назад +1

      Hi Mercy, we don't calculate Withholding tax how you have added it amounting to 17%. And the charges are not "hidden" because they are clearly stated on most investment websites. I do have a follow up video coming up that will answer and teach you how to calculate your net return, please stay tuned to learn how to do it.
      Also, I do mean well. That is why I do what I do. Don't come for my ethics just because you don't fully understand something. We stay kind of this channel. 😊

    • @mercyndirangu6053
      @mercyndirangu6053 2 месяца назад

      @@susan.wanjiku_ I didnt mean to offend you or challenge your ethics. I meant to probe you to share more details with your listeners because I listened to a video & rushed to apply to vuka only that am inquisitive and when they reached out, I asked so many question which helped me learn about the 299 opening non-rfundable (depending with the category), the 3% on every transaction, the annual fee, and the withholding tax. I didn't mean withholding is hidden, but the other charges, unless one is inquisitive will never be mentioned publicly-its obvious for businesses. Small piece of advise-don't get provoked by your listeners comments to feel the need to justify yourself or defend your ethics-just be happy to respond or ingore. They're not meant to harm you but seekers yearn for more.😌

  • @elphasnjagi5089
    @elphasnjagi5089 3 месяца назад +5

    That's a very insightful and an eye opener topic.
    Thanks a lot.
    Can you also give us advice on how one can invest pension funds and earn interests monthly. Many people could be interested.

  • @rostondopshiro8899
    @rostondopshiro8899 3 месяца назад +1

    Please could you comment on how Etica MMF operates

    • @janemuriungi8447
      @janemuriungi8447 3 месяца назад

      Go to their website you will get all the info you need.

  • @obenmispaojong9558
    @obenmispaojong9558 11 дней назад

    Hi Susan! Can other nationals outside Kenya invest in the Vuka project?

  • @crisAliestein-we7ky
    @crisAliestein-we7ky Месяц назад

    It works in Kenya only or even other countries

  • @arthurgumbo5597
    @arthurgumbo5597 3 месяца назад +2

    Hello Coach, unlike MMFs where the fund doesnt sit in the Fund managers balance sheet thereby derisking the investor incase the the fund manger collapse does the REIT fund sit in the balance sheet of the fund manager ?

    • @vukainvestment3424
      @vukainvestment3424 3 месяца назад +1

      HI,
      Real Estate Investment Trusts (REITs) and Money Market Funds (MMFs) operate under different structures, particularly in how they relate to the fund manager's balance sheet.
      Similar to MMFs, REITs are structured as separate legal entities. The assets and liabilities of a REIT are kept on the balance sheet of the REIT itself, not the fund manager or REIT manager. This separation provides a degree of protection to investors. If the fund manager collapses, the assets of the REIT remain intact and separate from the fund manager's assets. The REIT's performance and value are tied to the underlying real estate assets and operations, not the financial health of the fund manager.
      Additionally, in a REIT, your funds are asset backed, hence it's considered low risk.

  • @evanswanyanga9648
    @evanswanyanga9648 3 месяца назад +5

    Does REITS really have compounding power as MMfs ?

    • @vukainvestment3424
      @vukainvestment3424 3 месяца назад +1

      Hello, yes they do when you choose to re-invest your earnings.

    • @Officialdorcasnjeri
      @Officialdorcasnjeri 3 месяца назад

      After registration what next​@@vukainvestment3424

  • @relaxationwithtrixie8051
    @relaxationwithtrixie8051 3 месяца назад

    This is quite informative, what would you say about Mansa x

  • @olokodanasunday2227
    @olokodanasunday2227 22 дня назад

    ..........if yes, how can I go about it here from Nigeria?

  • @kaseetacaesar7443
    @kaseetacaesar7443 2 месяца назад

    Hey Suzan, thank you for this!
    How possible is it for a foreigner to be specific a Ugandan to invest in such Ventures in Kenya!
    Thank you.

  • @felixmutugi3054
    @felixmutugi3054 3 месяца назад

    Coach do a video on crypto currency

    • @susan.wanjiku_
      @susan.wanjiku_  3 месяца назад +2

      Hello, I do not teach or discuss Crypto at all. I am not an expert in that area.