@@V1Sim If we get the option to keep aircraft and airports local, and leave the rest streaming (or select what to have downloaded locally), I think that would be a good balance.
With the better flight model and ground handling in MSFS 2024, XP 12's main advantage are some planes that are not available in MSFS and the fact that it does not rely on servers. But for the server part, that's improved immensely for MSFS 2024 over the last week, and it will continue to get better. Otherwise, the graphics for MSFS 2024 at ground level is like 15 years more advanced than XP 12, it's not even close. Check out Yosemite and the Grand Canyon in MSFS 2024, it's shocking how good the graphics are at ground level. Plus MSFS 2024 has free Lido charts now and the GA avionics put XP GA avionics to shame.
I have using a real airline simulator. The scenery there was simple worse then the old FSX. All this does not count at all. Tolis saves situations like real simulator. It can also jump to different way points ahead.
I have both and I am a GA pilot. Every now and then I try to fly MSFS but invariably I go back to flying X-Plane. I don't know exactly why but the atmosphere and the feeling of immersion for me are incomparable.
@@flanker61out of curiosity have you tried 2024 for ga? I know the hardcore simulated birds aren’t over yet like the Duke and Comanche. But once they make their way over it’s going to be very impressive. The handling of even the default carenado birds are better than 2020
This was an excellent watch. As an X-Plane flyer who also owns the MSFS + Fenix side of things it's not really a tough pill to swallow that the flight dynamics are demonstratable to be better in MSFS, it's actually pretty fantastic because ToLiss is already pretty great. Certainly good enough for a non-pilot like me. My problem is that I still struggle to enjoy MSFS when flying airliners due to the airport environments. There's something about X-Plane that feels more dynamic and alive than in MSFS and after landing I feel like I've actually arrived somewhere real. If MSFS can get the airport environments (ground traffic, lighting etc) nailed like X-Plane has done it will be a tough choice going forwards. Anyhow - thank you for doing this video. Would you be willing to do more in different weather conditions? Icing (in the air, ground handling etc)? X-Plane does a fantastic job of simulating ground contamination and how it affects the aircraft.
Yes well said, while I enjoy what 2024 has brought to the table they fell short in some very key areas as you mentioned. The airport night lighting is atrocious too lol and yep! I do plan to do some more tests, I think then next one we might take out a default aircraft from both sims and run some tests that way. Much more to come, thanks for watching!
I totally agree with you 100%. Let's not forget that the all the Fenix flight dynamics are done outside MSFS! I still believe that MSFS is going to improve over time, but it's not going to come close to XPlane, not because Asobo can't do it, but because that Microsoft is looking for Money, and they will add only feature that is going to bring money for them, not feature that is going to make their platform stands out compared to other flight simulators.
Only just got into flight sim with the latest msfs 2024 and by playing that found this video and channel. Loved the content and subscribed, now to go backwards and watch some more of it 😂
i really hope this pushes toliss to improve because they cant even use the better flight model as an excuse now to charge so much money for a single plane
Very professional review, sir. It would be interesting to compare the Fenix 20 vs Fenix 24 when the official version is released, to stay within a meaningful scope of one generation. This felt a bit like comparing the ZX Spectrum or Amiga to a PC, honestly.
Once the 2024 version is officially supported by Fenix I think this is a great idea. Bring both airbuses head to head and see where the differences (if any) are between 2020/2024
Hey Captain, quick question, you seem to push the joystick forward when landing the Fenix compared to the pull action when landing the Toliss (during flare). Is the aircraft still floating in MSFS2424? Thank you
V1, I propose one more test. After messing around with the winds, I can see that MSFS adds alot of ground resistance to the winds it injects. If you put 20 knot winds on the ground. You wont truly get 20 knot because its trying to simulate that ground resistance. Youll get around 12 knots based on low passes over st.marteen in the a330. In order to get 20 knots crosswind directly on the ground, you would actually need to put 39-45 knots of wind at ground level. Im not a pilot, so I have no clue if that level of ground resistance is realistic. But in the xplane you had 20 knot crosswind all the way to the ground. Redo the msfs test and quiet these kids
So now we only need MSFS 2024 to run without (streaming) issues. Until that day is there (long time I'm afraid) I'll be flying the Toliss A319/321 (neo) on XP12. Even though I really prefer XP12 over MSFS I do wonder if there will ever be an XP13. This is really starting to hurt if you are an XP fanboy (which I somewhat am). The only XP benefits left that I can think of are night lighting, the easier user interface, the better performance on lower spec PCs and no server side streaming (apart from live weather data). That is probably not going to attract enough people to XP in the long run, especially when MSFS is getting this much better. Time will tell how this is going to play out of course. Still plenty of things for Asobo to fix before MSFS 2024 can be considered a true replacement for 2020 (and maybe XP12). A lot will depend on if they can get the streaming reliable enough for everyone.
it works pretty good for me, no streaming issues, but i would rather have all my planes downloaded ;) which will be available on the week of 9th Dec as i read in blog post
@@rasteek Awesome. Will definitely keep an eye on FS2024 and maybe try it some time next year on a game pass trial to see how it runs by then. I'm not a big fan of having (almost) everything in the cloud, but at some point I'll probably have to accept that it is the way forward.
People who say MSFS24 is "just a game" have a really bad take... because they seem to focus on the career mode being "unrealistic" in the progression of a pilot IRL... but yeah, other sims have NO career mode like this at all... the actual comparison of what is a "sim" and what is a game should only focus on the flight model, the physics, the realism of the aircraft and the surrounding, the procedures etc. the stuff that can be done in free flight.
Yes. And I’ve been guilty of this as well. And there are definite “game” features in 2024 as you outlined. But the more I fly in 2024 and looks at aircraft handling characteristics, the more I’m impresssed
@@V1Sim Yeah and I wouldnt blame you - from the limited marketing it seemed like they focus on width rather than depth - with the many different specializations, adding the "proper game" mode, increasing details of everything and again going for the entire planet 1:1... one would be afraid that this comes at the expense of the actual flight simulator that gives it life. But I was so surprised myself to soo all the additional forces acting on the planes... and most of the details about the aircraft being in there as well - not even the game wants you to see it very much, the trainings totally gloss over almost all of it, the game prompts you to start with Ctrl+E and just start flying - do a bit of trim, flaps, and thats all... but they have all these deep systems there, almost everything modeled, and the game wont even pull your attention to it :-D but its there... and its cool.
I also really like X-Plane built in flight replay system, its so simple and easy to use yet so powerful. Not discounting the hard work that Flight Recorder Embedded that comes with the sim, but its not as intuitive as X-Plane system. You literally have to manually select record to get it to operate. Meanwhile on X-Plane is records automatically your flight from start to finish. Also the lack of call outs Fenix did say there is a issue within MSFS that causes sounds to go out, so I guess it is not a default aircraft issue only, it seems it applies to third party products too
@@pilot.sergio4 agreed the replay in Xplane and user interface for controls and axis binding is far superior. The Flight recorder that I use however (not the embedded one) is just as easy as Xplane tho. It also has 1 key benefit, if the sim crashes all I have to do is reload and launch the replay. I can save it for future use for videos or anything too. If Xplane crashes during replay, that’s it, the replay is lost. 😞
@@johanjacobs9240 You don’t but it’s intuitive. If X-Plane can do it without too much impact on performance and it’s not like it saves it to your storage space, I don’t see the issue with it. My main gripe that you may glanced over is how you have to open up the panel and click record to get it going. The flight recorder sometimes breaks the aircraft too because when you exit the flight recorder, the aircraft you are flying ends up all messed up. I rather just allow the sim to record it and choose a segment that I want to save. Keep in mind this is for the embedded version as V1 already mentioned the external version seems a bit better than the embedded.
If you don't embrace change you can never be better than yesterday. Flight Sim technology has evolved drastically, XPlane has been stagnant for years now.
I tried to take off in the Fenix 2024 the AP and A/THR were on and would not turn off, got halfway down the runway and the sim crashed. I do have a powerful pc and since when does a captain have to remove the covers and remove the chocks is beyond me.
I almost feel like Toliss has some issue with rudder authority on the ground. Same thing for A339. 20Knts direct crosswind and I need to put almost full rudder to keep the aircraft on the center line.
the two things i noticed was 1) strobes were pretty spot on with the flash pattern and alternate with the beacon like on the real plane and 2) gear doors stay open until the wheels are stowed. MSFS doesn’t do both of those and it drives me insane!
It's a mix, Fenix doesn't use the default model, they use a bespoke flight and engine model (like most payware aircraft), but this has to work properly with the MSFS24 physics engine.
@@henrywalker5817I can only imagine how well payware aircraft will fly once they’ve updated for the new physics engine, especially when the default planes are significantly better.
What I got from this video is the XP tribe is really trying to justify their beloved game. I bought XP a few months ago, the physics (feel of flight) were better than 2020, but not enough to justify the lack of immersion in other areas. To me, 2024 is very close if not the same, far as physics go, plus the graphics are stunning.
So? Let them and don’t take the bait. Why do you have to dump on XP users just because you like one over the other. XP has its advantages and there are ways to make it look better for free.
@@tomstravels520I’m sorry this is not bait. It’s just facts. This guy ain’t no casual simmer. He is a real type rated 320 series captain. At some point you just have to accept the fact. Now there is no problem with being an xp fan as some other aircraft behave really nice but based on his tests, it’s clear that the Fenix is better in every way in terms of physics and modeling compared to toliss
@@majoraviatior1611 electric vehicles are better for the environment because they don’t emit harmful gases…….doesn’t mean I’m going to buy one. And some observers have pointed out the flaw with the test due to discrepancies in the crosswind speed on the ground. Fenix have yet to produce a NEO or higher thrust A319…..or an A330. And there are still several ToLiss features Fenix either don’t have or implement incorrectly so once again, there is more to sin than good looking graphics where you can see your house.
@ correct GLS implementation, autosave and save situation, higher thrust CFM Engine option on the A319, auto pause if master caution/warning activates, more realistic brake temps after landing, jump waypoints, keyboard entry for MCDU, pop out panels stay where you left them, actual ADR logic where captains, FO’s and standby altimeter/airspeed may be slightly different to each other, independently load fuel, pax and cargo and redistribute the weight as you want, takeoff performance show min-max V1 speeds with stop margins, better sound control, for those who want to they can change the engine type, sharklets and ACT’s without having to exit to the main menu and select and whole different aircraft, windshear displays, warnings and effects can be applied. And that’s before we get to any NEO features
Hello V1, I have been really enjoying your flight sim content. Thank you for entertaining while educating us. As a real pilot, what do you enjoy about flight simming?
@@All_motor_coyote Well I mean MSFS took a 15 year break after FSX, when MSFS2020 came out, it was Asobo first flight simulator ever, they were very inexperienced with a small team and new to the genre. They literally had the undo that ancient code of FSX to get it running to todays standards in terms of hardware and programming. They learned as they went and now we are were we are with MSFS2024.
I struggle to understand how the fenix handled better than toliss in xwind conditions tho, like, I thought the general consensus (even yours) is that the wind simulation sucks in 24 as much as it sucked in 2020. What am I missing ?
No no, the wind sucked in 2020. There was no inertia to aircraft and landing in crosswinds was straight wrong. This has changed in 2024, even to my unbelieving self, there has been significant FM changes in msfs2024
@@V1Sim but the wind gusts are still unrealistic right ? If you set turbulence to realistic or even medium, the gusts move the plane around instantly without any inertia just like 2020, am I wrong ?
@@valet2972 You really arent supposed to use the "turbulence" feature in msfs. I don't know how it works, but it just jitters around every aircraft. I advise to everyone to turn that crap off, download realturb, and make Asobo implement a proper turbulence simulation in the meantime. Because why can a third party addon make better turbulence than theirs, smh. Also of course FD2sim said it was bad flying the Asobo 737. A bad flight model is a bad flight model. Thats true in both simulations. You can make some god awful flying planes in xplane. Its not some magical program that makes all planes fly realistically. You trying to say Xplanes is more realistic when V1 needed full alerion into wind (39:15) to avoid flipping over is...lol
Crazy that you still can't make any comment without bashing users you disagreed with. Haven't seen you for a while; it looks like you got banned from many channels for spreading hate all around you. Still lonely and without friends then? And I am very happy that they finally could improve the FM in 2024, because that was exactly one of the biggest weakpoints of 2020, a point you always denied, although V1 admitted the bad FM in the comments here. It simply reflects your mindest to think that someone would be sad because of an improvement in a sim he uses too. Looks like you are the sad person here when toxocity is all you can offer. Let's hope that one day you will find happiness.
The landing physics is still not good in MSFS compared to XPlane. I get it, that intensity of the wind affects the plane too much, the amount of steering is not right and so on. But that all is just a matter of the right tweaking by the devs. But in MSFS i still do not have the immersion that i slam 70 tons on the runway. There is almost no rebound, no smearing, nothing. It looks just to perfect. I'm a big fan of MSFS graphics, the landscapes, the clouds, the lighting...all is beautiful. But the landing physics is still way ahead in XPlane.
Yeah doesn't look good at all. Aged very poorly. Hopefully Ben Supnik can improve that dramatically with the new scenery tech he's developing... But I wouldn't expect that before X-Plane 13 in a couple of years probably.
@@johanjacobs9240Fenix ND said 2 kt tailwind, during Toliss landing was 23 kt crosswind during the landing and roll out so Fenix ND and MSFS windsock don’t agree.
After watching this and testing both aircraft in X-Plane 12 and MSFS 2024, MSFS 2024 felt the same as 2020. There were no winds, just an animation of wing flex. I feel like this is some sort of MSFS 2024 advertisement, and you can see in the description how he hashtags MSFS without any X-Plane hashtags, which is suspiciously biased. Also, I checked his previous videos, and he has indeed been an MSFS fan since the beginning
I've been watching V1 since he was exclusively an X-Plane simmer, so not sure what you mean? He really started getting excited about MSFS when the PMDG launched and started slowly moving across. When the Fenix was released, it sealed the deal for him I think. He used to acknowledge pretty regularly that X-Plane was the better flight model, but that the overall package (visuals, audio, etc.) kept him on MSFS.
@@skankhunk4277 lol an msfs advertisement? You clearly don’t follow me, and thats ok, I know the new sim brings lots of new viewers. But as AAron said, I was totally in on Xplane 11 nearly a year after msfs 2020 came out. Maybe you will stick around a bit and see some more stuff and your opinion will change. The reason I ran out of hashtag is because my title is limited on space and the msfs tag carries thousands of more searches than xp. Again don’t focus on the simulators here, this is between Toliss and Fenix specifically.
In addition to your assessment being manipulation, I also doubted the nature of the comparison. I just spoke to my friend, the captain of an Airbus 330, and asked him about it. He said that a comparison between the two different models is fundamentally wrong! In his words, a real pilot would never do something like that...
If comparison between two different "models" is fundamentally wrong, how can we ever tell if one is more or less accurate? If you are dismissing this test because they are different "models", you have to dismiss all testing and just say that comparing different sims is impossible. However the truth is they are a representation of the SAME plane, the fact that they are different mods for different sims is irrelevant. So given the same configuration, the one that fits the real world data is the better, simple as.
@@activex7327 MSFS takes years to load initially before getting to the menu, I don't know what you're using but doesn't look terrible for me. And at 36,000ft how much of a difference does it make?
@@tomstravels520 MSFS 2020 takes less to load on my machine than Vanilla Xplane 12. It is known fact that Autoortho takes long time to load, just ask even the fanboys Q8 pilot, he doesn't use it because it loads forever and looks terrible. "And at 36,000ft how much of a difference does it make?" - Not everyone flies at that altitude, what a silly assumption to make. Even though, you still have to land to that terrible looking textures.
@@activex7327 Not everyone flies a Cessna 172 to see their house either. I can tell you for a fact that loading autoortho for me is quicker than MSFS2020 startup so not sure what's wrong with your setup. And if god forbid you were to loose your internet connection or servers go down....MSFS looks just as ugly.
@@tomstravels520 "Not everyone flies a Cessna 172 to see their house either." - You don't need to fly a Cessna to be at 5k-10k feet assigned altitude, for short duration flights ... You should know that by now ... "I can tell you for a fact that loading autoortho for me is quicker than MSFS2020 startup so not sure what's wrong with your setup." - Then there's definitely something wrong with your computer since everyone else machine loads the sim faster then you described. "And if god forbid you were to loose your internet connection or servers go down....MSFS looks just as ugly." - Why would my internet stop working? I don't live in a cave, 1000 BC. My internet went down once in 10 years for short period of time.
So why does the ND xwind reading stay near zero after you've decrabbed and are still 120kts down the centerline? Because there's no xwind. Why do the Fenix ailerons move very little during decrab? Because the physics are still wrong. Why using 20kts gusts? Why test a highly damped/automated control system that entirely covers the FM of both sims? This was terrible flight testing.
And to clarify, by "move very little", I mean almost zero aileron movement. Your zero-correction test in the Fenix at 1:57:00 was very telling. Nose high (that oddly didn't drop at all as you both trundle through the grass and decelerate) in a 20kt xwind, gusting 20kt, and zero correction is required? To even stay level in roll? The plane simply followed the excessive main gear friction from point of touchdown. Plus we can't see your rudder feet. Minus a few more internet flight test points.
@@memorycl the flight control surfaces don’t deflect in my external replay most of the time. If I used the embedded recorder it would, but the external recorder allows me to jump back forth much faster
@@V1Sim Most of the time? Just most? Or ever? It does look like the rudder doesn't move at all on second view. But there's zero roll happening during de-crab. Why? What's more, why doesn't that huge vertical stab have any weathervane effect from the 20+20kts you had rolling through after you touched down with no corrections? That beach run was a near perfect straight line from TD. Too perfect. Garbage physics. Even the gusts, apparently.
@@memorycl Man you have to admit, the comparison was pretty good. Switch to msfs2024 and be happy! You should be happy because nowadays we have such entertaining and true to life simulators that you can install on your desktop!
X-Planes touchdown and ground physics are horrible, and you guys still think it's some scam if anyone points it out. I don't fly an Airbus, but I fly another jet in real life, and if you think you need full-right deflection to avoid a pod strike (and that the wing still tips over like that) and to use hard opposite braking just to maintain centerline at touchdown during a 20-knot crosswind, lol...never mind the snaking on the rollout.
Again, question. Are you a business partner of Austin Meyer? Do you own Laminar Research? No? Then why are you going to battle for it? You like XP more? Fine, enjoy it. Others prefer MSFS, fine, they enjoy it too. Stop engaging in weird para-social behavior with your favorite corporation, it's very stupid and gross. Both are fucking desktop games pretty much on par now when it comes to basic flight physics, on a computer, with your ass sat in a chair, "flying" with a joystick in pyjamas. You're already are delusional, stop it before gets worse.
@@animegamingdude Question. Do you own Laminar Research or Asobo? Are you a business partner of Asobo or Laminar's boss? No. So, please stop engaging in gross para-social behavior with your favorite corporation. Your childish behavior is another example of why capitalism isn't about healthy competition but concentration, absolute control and squashing "the enemy". Pathetic. Both are fucking desktop games for your ass on a fucking chair.
Well, just tested Fenix in 2024 and it felt like a fighter jet, no inertia AT ALL. Did few very abrupt and hard flight stick movements, from neutral to full left/right for 1 second, and when I let go the stick, Fenix stops like F-16, or better to say acrobatic aircraft. In XP11/12 you can really see and feel the inertia, aircraft doesn't stop the roll abruptly. It's not my hardware for sure (VKB Gladiator NXT EVO), as it works perfectly in all sims. For xwind and ground performance I won't comment since I'm not a real pilot, but I know why I prefer some aircraft in XP over MSFS counterparts. Show me a video on YT or anywhere, where A320 stops the roll abruptly when you let go the flight stick, and I will say I'm wrong. In my case, to make Fenix roll slowly like in this clip, I need to set extreme deadzone to 0.5 in control settings, no other way. When I move my flight stick like V1-Simulations, it rolls faster and stops a lot faster, no inertia at all. Not sure what I'm missing. Do you have that dampening option enabled in Fenix tablet? For me it doesn't make the difference, maybe it's even worse with it enabled. Any help is appreciated.
@@majoraviatior1611 I did, both. -20, and SDS on. Still felt wrong. So I went with extreme deadzone to 40 (so axis travel is 60% of default), and then I can say it feels better, but still not close to Toliss. I still can't feel the inertia, but can feel the weight. I can live with it I guess. Since I'm a VR user, I firmly believe that the feel of flying and physics is multiplied in VR. In 2D I can't feel all the stuff like I feel in VR. I can't see tiny movements in 2D, but in VR I can see them easily. It depends on so many variables.
@ you have to remember that the 320 irl has fbw. They don’t handle to have a very heavy feel like say a 747. Irl they are very direct on the controls and you only need finger tip movements to manipulate controls. Imo Fenix has came close in this regard
This video will trigger some people, loved watching it.
But falks, if you are happy with your sim, whatever it is, just be happy
Yup! Again this isn’t about simulators, this video is aimed at looking at the Fenix and Toliss directly.
Aside from the cloud/launch issues, if 2024 is this good now, I can't wait to see where this goes over the next 2-3 years
I agree. I am really hesitant about this cloud thing, but, the sim has changed for the better without question
@@V1Sim If we get the option to keep aircraft and airports local, and leave the rest streaming (or select what to have downloaded locally), I think that would be a good balance.
With the better flight model and ground handling in MSFS 2024, XP 12's main advantage are some planes that are not available in MSFS and the fact that it does not rely on servers. But for the server part, that's improved immensely for MSFS 2024 over the last week, and it will continue to get better. Otherwise, the graphics for MSFS 2024 at ground level is like 15 years more advanced than XP 12, it's not even close. Check out Yosemite and the Grand Canyon in MSFS 2024, it's shocking how good the graphics are at ground level. Plus MSFS 2024 has free Lido charts now and the GA avionics put XP GA avionics to shame.
Great summary! Agree !
imagine being a vfr lover, in particular a glider enthusiast how much can fs2024 bring to your eyes
I have using a real airline simulator. The scenery there was simple worse then the old FSX. All this does not count at all. Tolis saves situations like real simulator. It can also jump to different way points ahead.
I have both and I am a GA pilot. Every now and then I try to fly MSFS but invariably I go back to flying X-Plane. I don't know exactly why but the atmosphere and the feeling of immersion for me are incomparable.
@@flanker61out of curiosity have you tried 2024 for ga? I know the hardcore simulated birds aren’t over yet like the Duke and Comanche. But once they make their way over it’s going to be very impressive. The handling of even the default carenado birds are better than 2020
This was an excellent watch. As an X-Plane flyer who also owns the MSFS + Fenix side of things it's not really a tough pill to swallow that the flight dynamics are demonstratable to be better in MSFS, it's actually pretty fantastic because ToLiss is already pretty great. Certainly good enough for a non-pilot like me. My problem is that I still struggle to enjoy MSFS when flying airliners due to the airport environments. There's something about X-Plane that feels more dynamic and alive than in MSFS and after landing I feel like I've actually arrived somewhere real. If MSFS can get the airport environments (ground traffic, lighting etc) nailed like X-Plane has done it will be a tough choice going forwards. Anyhow - thank you for doing this video. Would you be willing to do more in different weather conditions? Icing (in the air, ground handling etc)? X-Plane does a fantastic job of simulating ground contamination and how it affects the aircraft.
Yes well said, while I enjoy what 2024 has brought to the table they fell short in some very key areas as you mentioned. The airport night lighting is atrocious too lol and yep! I do plan to do some more tests, I think then next one we might take out a default aircraft from both sims and run some tests that way. Much more to come, thanks for watching!
@@V1Sim the Citation Longitude is a very good default offering in both sims and something a little different...
I totally agree with you 100%. Let's not forget that the all the Fenix flight dynamics are done outside MSFS! I still believe that MSFS is going to improve over time, but it's not going to come close to XPlane, not because Asobo can't do it, but because that Microsoft is looking for Money, and they will add only feature that is going to bring money for them, not feature that is going to make their platform stands out compared to other flight simulators.
Missed this one (& many recent others coz of work) - but THIS is why you, my sir, are the BEST!! Thanks a bunch for the comparos V1!!
Appreciate it sir thank you!
Only just got into flight sim with the latest msfs 2024 and by playing that found this video and channel. Loved the content and subscribed, now to go backwards and watch some more of it 😂
i really hope this pushes toliss to improve because they cant even use the better flight model as an excuse now to charge so much money for a single plane
yea they need to step up on a few things definitly...
Very professional review, sir. It would be interesting to compare the Fenix 20 vs Fenix 24 when the official version is released, to stay within a meaningful scope of one generation. This felt a bit like comparing the ZX Spectrum or Amiga to a PC, honestly.
Once the 2024 version is officially supported by Fenix I think this is a great idea. Bring both airbuses head to head and see where the differences (if any) are between 2020/2024
Good video ! ... what are you using to record 2024 ?
This is why I love the Fenix. I'm no pilot. I just enjoy flying it. lol
Haha good! I enjoy flying it too.
Tremendous work! … “V1 …Professional Pilot”
Allegedly 😉
AWESOME and did it live too..
Top draw.
Hey Captain, quick question, you seem to push the joystick forward when landing the Fenix compared to the pull action when landing the Toliss (during flare). Is the aircraft still floating in MSFS2424? Thank you
Had the same thought
Fenix is fantastic aircraft and even more fantastic in MSFS2024 :)
V1, I propose one more test. After messing around with the winds, I can see that MSFS adds alot of ground resistance to the winds it injects. If you put 20 knot winds on the ground. You wont truly get 20 knot because its trying to simulate that ground resistance. Youll get around 12 knots based on low passes over st.marteen in the a330. In order to get 20 knots crosswind directly on the ground, you would actually need to put 39-45 knots of wind at ground level. Im not a pilot, so I have no clue if that level of ground resistance is realistic. But in the xplane you had 20 knot crosswind all the way to the ground.
Redo the msfs test and quiet these kids
@@FrostbitexP this is the first thing I’ve heard that makes sense lol good idea I will look in to this and give it a shot
About to buy the fenix now😂
Well this I can promise you, you won’t be disappointed
So now we only need MSFS 2024 to run without (streaming) issues. Until that day is there (long time I'm afraid) I'll be flying the Toliss A319/321 (neo) on XP12. Even though I really prefer XP12 over MSFS I do wonder if there will ever be an XP13. This is really starting to hurt if you are an XP fanboy (which I somewhat am). The only XP benefits left that I can think of are night lighting, the easier user interface, the better performance on lower spec PCs and no server side streaming (apart from live weather data). That is probably not going to attract enough people to XP in the long run, especially when MSFS is getting this much better. Time will tell how this is going to play out of course. Still plenty of things for Asobo to fix before MSFS 2024 can be considered a true replacement for 2020 (and maybe XP12). A lot will depend on if they can get the streaming reliable enough for everyone.
it works pretty good for me, no streaming issues, but i would rather have all my planes downloaded ;) which will be available on the week of 9th Dec as i read in blog post
@@rasteek Awesome. Will definitely keep an eye on FS2024 and maybe try it some time next year on a game pass trial to see how it runs by then. I'm not a big fan of having (almost) everything in the cloud, but at some point I'll probably have to accept that it is the way forward.
People who say MSFS24 is "just a game" have a really bad take... because they seem to focus on the career mode being "unrealistic" in the progression of a pilot IRL... but yeah, other sims have NO career mode like this at all... the actual comparison of what is a "sim" and what is a game should only focus on the flight model, the physics, the realism of the aircraft and the surrounding, the procedures etc. the stuff that can be done in free flight.
Yes. And I’ve been guilty of this as well. And there are definite “game” features in 2024 as you outlined. But the more I fly in 2024 and looks at aircraft handling characteristics, the more I’m impresssed
@@V1Sim Yeah and I wouldnt blame you - from the limited marketing it seemed like they focus on width rather than depth - with the many different specializations, adding the "proper game" mode, increasing details of everything and again going for the entire planet 1:1... one would be afraid that this comes at the expense of the actual flight simulator that gives it life. But I was so surprised myself to soo all the additional forces acting on the planes... and most of the details about the aircraft being in there as well - not even the game wants you to see it very much, the trainings totally gloss over almost all of it, the game prompts you to start with Ctrl+E and just start flying - do a bit of trim, flaps, and thats all... but they have all these deep systems there, almost everything modeled, and the game wont even pull your attention to it :-D but its there... and its cool.
I also really like X-Plane built in flight replay system, its so simple and easy to use yet so powerful. Not discounting the hard work that Flight Recorder Embedded that comes with the sim, but its not as intuitive as X-Plane system. You literally have to manually select record to get it to operate. Meanwhile on X-Plane is records automatically your flight from start to finish. Also the lack of call outs Fenix did say there is a issue within MSFS that causes sounds to go out, so I guess it is not a default aircraft issue only, it seems it applies to third party products too
Do you really need a recording from start to finish?
@@pilot.sergio4 agreed the replay in Xplane and user interface for controls and axis binding is far superior. The Flight recorder that I use however (not the embedded one) is just as easy as Xplane tho. It also has 1 key benefit, if the sim crashes all I have to do is reload and launch the replay. I can save it for future use for videos or anything too. If Xplane crashes during replay, that’s it, the replay is lost. 😞
@@johanjacobs9240 You don’t but it’s intuitive. If X-Plane can do it without too much impact on performance and it’s not like it saves it to your storage space, I don’t see the issue with it. My main gripe that you may glanced over is how you have to open up the panel and click record to get it going. The flight recorder sometimes breaks the aircraft too because when you exit the flight recorder, the aircraft you are flying ends up all messed up. I rather just allow the sim to record it and choose a segment that I want to save. Keep in mind this is for the embedded version as V1 already mentioned the external version seems a bit better than the embedded.
@@V1Sim Ah I see, I guess the external version is better than for sure. Would be awesome if they matched the embedded version to the external version.
@@V1Sim what flight recorder add one do you sir there sir?
thats the stuff i like
Anyone know what the fuel switches and crank knob mappings are for ms2024 for fenix
How you get your toliss cockpit so sharp and good looking. On my end its all a bit blurry or pixelated. I must have a wrong setting somewhere
I’m not sure, but I will say I was impressed with how far the cockpit has come. It actually looks really good.
More comparisons!!! For science!!!!
If you don't embrace change you can never be better than yesterday. Flight Sim technology has evolved drastically, XPlane has been stagnant for years now.
100%
I tried to take off in the Fenix 2024 the AP and A/THR were on and would not turn off, got halfway down the runway and the sim crashed. I do have a powerful pc and since when does a captain have to remove the covers and remove the chocks is beyond me.
@@ironknobair Can you just start on the runway with engines running?
I almost feel like Toliss has some issue with rudder authority on the ground.
Same thing for A339. 20Knts direct crosswind and I need to put almost full rudder to keep the aircraft on the center line.
Yes this exactly. And I feel like it didn’t used to have this issue.
the two things i noticed was 1) strobes were pretty spot on with the flash pattern and alternate with the beacon like on the real plane and 2) gear doors stay open until the wheels are stowed.
MSFS doesn’t do both of those and it drives me insane!
Is the Flight Model in MSFS24 from Fenix or the standard game?
It's a mix, Fenix doesn't use the default model, they use a bespoke flight and engine model (like most payware aircraft), but this has to work properly with the MSFS24 physics engine.
Default aircraft have been flying lovely as well. Have really enjoyed the new engine.
@@henrywalker5817I can only imagine how well payware aircraft will fly once they’ve updated for the new physics engine, especially when the default planes are significantly better.
the fenix runs some data through a separate program. It is the highest simulation of an Airbus series aircraft to date.
@@V1Simisn't fslabs the highest?
What I got from this video is the XP tribe is really trying to justify their beloved game.
I bought XP a few months ago, the physics (feel of flight) were better than 2020, but not enough to justify the lack of immersion in other areas.
To me, 2024 is very close if not the same, far as physics go, plus the graphics are stunning.
So? Let them and don’t take the bait. Why do you have to dump on XP users just because you like one over the other. XP has its advantages and there are ways to make it look better for free.
@@tomstravels520I’m sorry this is not bait. It’s just facts. This guy ain’t no casual simmer. He is a real type rated 320 series captain. At some point you just have to accept the fact. Now there is no problem with being an xp fan as some other aircraft behave really nice but based on his tests, it’s clear that the Fenix is better in every way in terms of physics and modeling compared to toliss
@@majoraviatior1611 electric vehicles are better for the environment because they don’t emit harmful gases…….doesn’t mean I’m going to buy one. And some observers have pointed out the flaw with the test due to discrepancies in the crosswind speed on the ground. Fenix have yet to produce a NEO or higher thrust A319…..or an A330. And there are still several ToLiss features Fenix either don’t have or implement incorrectly so once again, there is more to sin than good looking graphics where you can see your house.
@@tomstravels520 I’m curious to know the features that Fenix don’t have opposed to toliss
@ correct GLS implementation, autosave and save situation, higher thrust CFM Engine option on the A319, auto pause if master caution/warning activates, more realistic brake temps after landing, jump waypoints, keyboard entry for MCDU, pop out panels stay where you left them, actual ADR logic where captains, FO’s and standby altimeter/airspeed may be slightly different to each other, independently load fuel, pax and cargo and redistribute the weight as you want, takeoff performance show min-max V1 speeds with stop margins, better sound control, for those who want to they can change the engine type, sharklets and ACT’s without having to exit to the main menu and select and whole different aircraft, windshear displays, warnings and effects can be applied.
And that’s before we get to any NEO features
Hello V1, I have been really enjoying your flight sim content. Thank you for entertaining while educating us. As a real pilot, what do you enjoy about flight simming?
Being able to use TOGA every takeoff without being scolded 😂
As Aaron said, TOGA all the time every time. And wing views 😊
I really miss those xplane aircraft and flight dynamics, I’m never messing with scenery addons ever again though.
Xplane has good flight dynamics there is no question about that!
i do own both sim msfs2020 and xp12 i still dont know why but i do prefer xplane 12 over msfs2020
NOW A330 toliss vs A330 inb. 😂
payware vs freeware. Id still be down.
So basically toliss lost to fenix💀
Toliss aint king no more m8, this day was coming
@@All_motor_coyote it appears the day has come
@@V1Sim about time. Same with FS physics being comparable to XP. Only took 20 years but better late than never. Great things are coming.
@@All_motor_coyote Well I mean MSFS took a 15 year break after FSX, when MSFS2020 came out, it was Asobo first flight simulator ever, they were very inexperienced with a small team and new to the genre. They literally had the undo that ancient code of FSX to get it running to todays standards in terms of hardware and programming. They learned as they went and now we are were we are with MSFS2024.
@@pilot.sergio4 I classify P3D as glorified FSX, as it was microsoft based. just my opinion tho.
I struggle to understand how the fenix handled better than toliss in xwind conditions tho, like, I thought the general consensus (even yours) is that the wind simulation sucks in 24 as much as it sucked in 2020. What am I missing ?
No no, the wind sucked in 2020. There was no inertia to aircraft and landing in crosswinds was straight wrong. This has changed in 2024, even to my unbelieving self, there has been significant FM changes in msfs2024
@@V1Sim but the wind gusts are still unrealistic right ? If you set turbulence to realistic or even medium, the gusts move the plane around instantly without any inertia just like 2020, am I wrong ?
@@V1Simit’s just so weird seeing you praise the x wind physics tho, FD2sim said that they are horrible- although while testing the default 737 max
@@valet2972 You really arent supposed to use the "turbulence" feature in msfs. I don't know how it works, but it just jitters around every aircraft. I advise to everyone to turn that crap off, download realturb, and make Asobo implement a proper turbulence simulation in the meantime. Because why can a third party addon make better turbulence than theirs, smh.
Also of course FD2sim said it was bad flying the Asobo 737. A bad flight model is a bad flight model. Thats true in both simulations. You can make some god awful flying planes in xplane. Its not some magical program that makes all planes fly realistically.
You trying to say Xplanes is more realistic when V1 needed full alerion into wind (39:15) to avoid flipping over is...lol
Xplane suits better for keyboard & mouse player
Who in this world uses these to play a sim?
@@confuseddad2865 people who live with game hater have to use keyboard & mouse to hide.
It’s okay Xplane peeps….you can let go….come to the light
no thanks
XP users are mostly lunatics.
The era of Microsoft Flight Simulator has fully arrived!
So you're an XP user with that statement then
@oxsan-e8m That makes you a bit horny, right?
You might have upset GoldGamer, Hanslim, AngelicGuru, frankbyte, the Xplane fanboys die hards! 😂😅
Crazy that you still can't make any comment without bashing users you disagreed with. Haven't seen you for a while; it looks like you got banned from many channels for spreading hate all around you. Still lonely and without friends then?
And I am very happy that they finally could improve the FM in 2024, because that was exactly one of the biggest weakpoints of 2020, a point you always denied, although V1 admitted the bad FM in the comments here. It simply reflects your mindest to think that someone would be sad because of an improvement in a sim he uses too. Looks like you are the sad person here when toxocity is all you can offer. Let's hope that one day you will find happiness.
The landing physics is still not good in MSFS compared to XPlane. I get it, that intensity of the wind affects the plane too much, the amount of steering is not right and so on. But that all is just a matter of the right tweaking by the devs. But in MSFS i still do not have the immersion that i slam 70 tons on the runway. There is almost no rebound, no smearing, nothing. It looks just to perfect. I'm a big fan of MSFS graphics, the landscapes, the clouds, the lighting...all is beautiful. But the landing physics is still way ahead in XPlane.
Both of these sims are @#@ed up - it just depends on what pain you want to endure the lease...
Xplane looks like poopy pie
Ah the children of MSFS are here
Yeah doesn't look good at all. Aged very poorly. Hopefully Ben Supnik can improve that dramatically with the new scenery tech he's developing... But I wouldn't expect that before X-Plane 13 in a couple of years probably.
Lol cope, no winds on the ground. Probably scripted in to make landings easier on flare, either by Asobo or Fenix
The windsock tell another story. 1:55:15 With a detailed explanation. That is why MSFS and the Fenix are so advanced.
Delusional much?
@@johanjacobs9240Fenix ND said 2 kt tailwind, during Toliss landing was 23 kt crosswind during the landing and roll out so Fenix ND and MSFS windsock don’t agree.
After watching this and testing both aircraft in X-Plane 12 and MSFS 2024, MSFS 2024 felt the same as 2020. There were no winds, just an animation of wing flex. I feel like this is some sort of MSFS 2024 advertisement, and you can see in the description how he hashtags MSFS without any X-Plane hashtags, which is suspiciously biased. Also, I checked his previous videos, and he has indeed been an MSFS fan since the beginning
👆💯
I've been watching V1 since he was exclusively an X-Plane simmer, so not sure what you mean? He really started getting excited about MSFS when the PMDG launched and started slowly moving across. When the Fenix was released, it sealed the deal for him I think. He used to acknowledge pretty regularly that X-Plane was the better flight model, but that the overall package (visuals, audio, etc.) kept him on MSFS.
@@skankhunk4277 biggest cope I’ve ever seen.
@@skankhunk4277 lol an msfs advertisement? You clearly don’t follow me, and thats ok, I know the new sim brings lots of new viewers. But as AAron said, I was totally in on Xplane 11 nearly a year after msfs 2020 came out. Maybe you will stick around a bit and see some more stuff and your opinion will change. The reason I ran out of hashtag is because my title is limited on space and the msfs tag carries thousands of more searches than xp. Again don’t focus on the simulators here, this is between Toliss and Fenix specifically.
Oh and I looked I do have hashtags for both even lol so disregard. You need to click see full title
In addition to your assessment being manipulation, I also doubted the nature of the comparison. I just spoke to my friend, the captain of an Airbus 330, and asked him about it. He said that a comparison between the two different models is fundamentally wrong! In his words, a real pilot would never do something like that...
Let me guess, he’s 330 Driver
@@V1Sim😂😂
If comparison between two different "models" is fundamentally wrong, how can we ever tell if one is more or less accurate? If you are dismissing this test because they are different "models", you have to dismiss all testing and just say that comparing different sims is impossible.
However the truth is they are a representation of the SAME plane, the fact that they are different mods for different sims is irrelevant. So given the same configuration, the one that fits the real world data is the better, simple as.
roflol
what do you talk? with different models?
He tested a 320 in x plane and a 320 in MSFS. Then he judged which one flies more like the real thing.
So??
Sir use authoOrtho for xplane
Dont use AutoOrtho, it takes years to load, looks terrible, colors don't match scenery.
@@activex7327 MSFS takes years to load initially before getting to the menu, I don't know what you're using but doesn't look terrible for me. And at 36,000ft how much of a difference does it make?
@@tomstravels520 MSFS 2020 takes less to load on my machine than Vanilla Xplane 12. It is known fact that Autoortho takes long time to load, just ask even the fanboys Q8 pilot, he doesn't use it because it loads forever and looks terrible.
"And at 36,000ft how much of a difference does it make?" - Not everyone flies at that altitude, what a silly assumption to make. Even though, you still have to land to that terrible looking textures.
@@activex7327 Not everyone flies a Cessna 172 to see their house either. I can tell you for a fact that loading autoortho for me is quicker than MSFS2020 startup so not sure what's wrong with your setup. And if god forbid you were to loose your internet connection or servers go down....MSFS looks just as ugly.
@@tomstravels520 "Not everyone flies a Cessna 172 to see their house either." - You don't need to fly a Cessna to be at 5k-10k feet assigned altitude, for short duration flights ... You should know that by now ...
"I can tell you for a fact that loading autoortho for me is quicker than MSFS2020 startup so not sure what's wrong with your setup." - Then there's definitely something wrong with your computer since everyone else machine loads the sim faster then you described.
"And if god forbid you were to loose your internet connection or servers go down....MSFS looks just as ugly." - Why would my internet stop working? I don't live in a cave, 1000 BC. My internet went down once in 10 years for short period of time.
So why does the ND xwind reading stay near zero after you've decrabbed and are still 120kts down the centerline? Because there's no xwind. Why do the Fenix ailerons move very little during decrab? Because the physics are still wrong. Why using 20kts gusts? Why test a highly damped/automated control system that entirely covers the FM of both sims? This was terrible flight testing.
Gustavo? Is that you?
And to clarify, by "move very little", I mean almost zero aileron movement. Your zero-correction test in the Fenix at 1:57:00 was very telling. Nose high (that oddly didn't drop at all as you both trundle through the grass and decelerate) in a 20kt xwind, gusting 20kt, and zero correction is required? To even stay level in roll? The plane simply followed the excessive main gear friction from point of touchdown. Plus we can't see your rudder feet. Minus a few more internet flight test points.
@@memorycl the flight control surfaces don’t deflect in my external replay most of the time. If I used the embedded recorder it would, but the external recorder allows me to jump back forth much faster
@@V1Sim Most of the time? Just most? Or ever? It does look like the rudder doesn't move at all on second view. But there's zero roll happening during de-crab. Why?
What's more, why doesn't that huge vertical stab have any weathervane effect from the 20+20kts you had rolling through after you touched down with no corrections? That beach run was a near perfect straight line from TD. Too perfect. Garbage physics. Even the gusts, apparently.
@@memorycl Man you have to admit, the comparison was pretty good. Switch to msfs2024 and be happy! You should be happy because nowadays we have such entertaining and true to life simulators that you can install on your desktop!
Really nice manipulating, you gona to stay on MSFS cause there is your money…
Ok lol
X-Planes touchdown and ground physics are horrible, and you guys still think it's some scam if anyone points it out. I don't fly an Airbus, but I fly another jet in real life, and if you think you need full-right deflection to avoid a pod strike (and that the wing still tips over like that) and to use hard opposite braking just to maintain centerline at touchdown during a 20-knot crosswind, lol...never mind the snaking on the rollout.
Again, question. Are you a business partner of Austin Meyer? Do you own Laminar Research? No? Then why are you going to battle for it? You like XP more? Fine, enjoy it. Others prefer MSFS, fine, they enjoy it too. Stop engaging in weird para-social behavior with your favorite corporation, it's very stupid and gross. Both are fucking desktop games pretty much on par now when it comes to basic flight physics, on a computer, with your ass sat in a chair, "flying" with a joystick in pyjamas. You're already are delusional, stop it before gets worse.
@@classydave75 you claim to be classy when in fact you are the delusional one here
Soooo much cope and butt hurt in here
yep from the msfs kids who cant stand the fact that xplane is still the better sim
@@animegamingdude Real A320s dont need full right alerion into a 20 knot crosswind to not flip over man
@@animegamingdude Question. Do you own Laminar Research or Asobo? Are you a business partner of Asobo or Laminar's boss? No. So, please stop engaging in gross para-social behavior with your favorite corporation. Your childish behavior is another example of why capitalism isn't about healthy competition but concentration, absolute control and squashing "the enemy". Pathetic. Both are fucking desktop games for your ass on a fucking chair.
@@classydave75 bro you are not my dad i wont do what you tell me
@@classydave75 i will keep engaging in it to spite you
Well, just tested Fenix in 2024 and it felt like a fighter jet, no inertia AT ALL. Did few very abrupt and hard flight stick movements, from neutral to full left/right for 1 second, and when I let go the stick, Fenix stops like F-16, or better to say acrobatic aircraft. In XP11/12 you can really see and feel the inertia, aircraft doesn't stop the roll abruptly. It's not my hardware for sure (VKB Gladiator NXT EVO), as it works perfectly in all sims. For xwind and ground performance I won't comment since I'm not a real pilot, but I know why I prefer some aircraft in XP over MSFS counterparts. Show me a video on YT or anywhere, where A320 stops the roll abruptly when you let go the flight stick, and I will say I'm wrong.
In my case, to make Fenix roll slowly like in this clip, I need to set extreme deadzone to 0.5 in control settings, no other way. When I move my flight stick like V1-Simulations, it rolls faster and stops a lot faster, no inertia at all. Not sure what I'm missing. Do you have that dampening option enabled in Fenix tablet? For me it doesn't make the difference, maybe it's even worse with it enabled.
Any help is appreciated.
🤣
Change your sensitivity settings to -20 as recommended and turn sds on in efb
@@majoraviatior1611 I did, both. -20, and SDS on. Still felt wrong. So I went with extreme deadzone to 40 (so axis travel is 60% of default), and then I can say it feels better, but still not close to Toliss. I still can't feel the inertia, but can feel the weight. I can live with it I guess. Since I'm a VR user, I firmly believe that the feel of flying and physics is multiplied in VR. In 2D I can't feel all the stuff like I feel in VR. I can't see tiny movements in 2D, but in VR I can see them easily. It depends on so many variables.
@ you have to remember that the 320 irl has fbw. They don’t handle to have a very heavy feel like say a 747. Irl they are very direct on the controls and you only need finger tip movements to manipulate controls. Imo Fenix has came close in this regard
@ overall the real 321 handles very sensitive according to irl Airbus pilots and have praised Fenix for getting this right