Swift Zwift Tip: Drafting Other Riders in Zwift

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  • Опубликовано: 19 янв 2025

Комментарии • 91

  • @davepratt9909
    @davepratt9909 6 лет назад +50

    Having a draft benefit meter on the screen would be really helpful.

  • @leopoldodonnell1979
    @leopoldodonnell1979 6 лет назад +12

    I used to have a really tough time managing distance, overshooting etc. The thing that fixed it for me was to change the camera view from the 'Forward Facing medium distance chase' to 'Forward Facing First Person POV'. This makes it much easier to hold a draft or maintain a position in a bunch.

  • @legodaysout9
    @legodaysout9 6 лет назад +6

    Just a small correction on your key point #1 that it doesnt get easier you just go faster (in the draft)......usually you don't go faster because your speed in the draft is determined by the person on the front, but *it is* easier to keep up with them because of the lowered wind resistance. Of course if you work together with other riders and take turns on the front then you will go faster (than solo) but effort will go up proportionately. So the most typical scenario on zwift is that it literally gets easier (by about 40%) but you don't necessarily go faster (in the draft).

    • @gplama
      @gplama  6 лет назад +2

      There’s a few ways to slice and dice it. Try riding at 40% of the rider you’re drafting.... you’re out the back. In summary - the drafting effect isn’t what you expect it to be on a smart trainer. It doesn’t let up, you have to. And not too much, and not to zero. Either way, if people are aware they won’t ‘feel it’, Zero Watts is death, and they have to practice, all good.

    • @michael1
      @michael1 4 месяца назад

      @@gplama I guess the difference is, IRL if you want to go the same speed as someone else you can do the same cadence in the same gear with the same size wheels - more or less obviously bikes coast downhills and have momentum so it's not exact.
      If you're in the draft in that same gear and cadence it'll feel easier to push the pedals because of physics. On a trainer if you want to feel less resistance you have to change to an easier gear - and even though that means your trainer is spinning slower, in zwift you should keep in the draft at the same speed, i.e you'll be doing less watts behind the person in an easier gear. Now if you drop out the draft IRL the resistance would increase in that gear, but in zwift you'd have to change up a gear - otherwise you'll just drop further back at the lower power.
      So the resistance does change, but you manually change it with your bikes gears and you have to keep awake to see when your position is dropping to be in the right gear and doing the right amount of work.
      Zwift couldn't really do much about that until they added virtual gearing. Now the virtual gearing is there, it should be possible to say when you're in gear 10 by yourself on the flat then you feel this resistance given all your stats weight, height, bike etc. But if you're in the draft then the resistance drops in that same gear. With 2 riders with virtual gearing, well we should both go more or less the same speed if we're in the same gear / same cadence - so then you should be able to sit in any group like IRL just keep those pedals spinning in that virtual gear.
      Ok, IRL it's not exactly like that, some people prefer 90 cadence and another will be in 1 gear lower at 100, the group will surge and wane, there's very little genuinely flat terrain in real life, so there's some gear changing for hills, but virtual gearing done right should mean we're all just spinning the same gear with the same size wheels in a group and going at the same speed - but, because of our weight, aero, position in the group giving us drafting, the resistance and thus the watts we're each producing at that cadence varies.
      Whether that's how the virtual gearing works in zwift is the question. But the opportunity is there now in a way that it wasn't before to make the resistance match the conditions in the virtual world, rather than you having to change gear on your real gears to do less work but effectively go the same speed.
      Lastly, there's a kind of error assumption I think some have that drafting means you do less watts than the guy in front, but it actually means you do less watts than you would have to if the guy in front wasn't there. In real life it usually ends up that you're doing less work than the guy in front because you can't lie about your weight to the laws of physics IRL and, of course, people swap who is on the front to give everyone a rest. In zwift especially, where a significant number of people lie about their height and weight, it's as likely that honest people are still going to be doing more watts than the person in front, but less watts less than you'd need to if they weren't there. Zwift insider has videos showing that, a 50-60kg bot rider doing 180w and the bot behind doing 225w in the draft - whereas a 100+kg bot would have to do 400w on the front. In zwift you can lie about your weight and do less watts out of the draft than an honest person would in it.
      Which is why you can see people riding around behind the A robopacers doing 180 watts which many of us would be struggling to keep up with C pacers at that power. The Sauce overlay has a dial that shows the actual watts you're saving, it might be 90-100 watts or so in the best draft conditions, which would be quite a few gears easier. But as you say it didn't work like real life to spin, coast, etc use the momentum behind a rider. Although it's changed a bit.

  • @michwoz
    @michwoz 6 лет назад +38

    Visual clue: your avatar puts hands on hoods when drafting.

  • @ShawnMcAfee
    @ShawnMcAfee 5 лет назад +4

    Great video, I like that you included a real example of how quickly you fall off.

  • @Yosser70
    @Yosser70 6 лет назад +2

    Thanks for this mate, it explains a lot! Karen to either blow straight through the pack or get shelled out the back. When I think I'm going to overshoot I probably ease up too much and that braking effect kicks in. It's worse in a big pack when everyone is in the same kit and you lose track of where you are. Have to say though, I'm sure I can feel the drafting effect, as in peddling resistance eases up a little but maybe I'm imagining that lol

  • @francoisbouchart4050
    @francoisbouchart4050 6 лет назад +26

    My challenge is over shooting the person that I am drafting. There needs to be a visual cue just like there is one for losing the wheel. Thoughts?

    • @gplama
      @gplama  6 лет назад +3

      Agreed.

    • @atanasg
      @atanasg 6 лет назад +4

      +1. The flip side is jumping on somebody's wheels who is about to overtake you takes exquisite timing and so much more energy than seems reasonable.

    • @chrisskennion428
      @chrisskennion428 6 лет назад +9

      There is a visual cue. When you see your rider sit up, you’re in the draft.

  • @ryandhaley2
    @ryandhaley2 4 года назад +9

    Turns out I was on a TT bike during my hour group ride today, it almost killed me

  • @jeffmorgan5152
    @jeffmorgan5152 5 лет назад +1

    Just a few rides in and quickly realized how much conditioned response was involved with drafting. Had to laugh at myself reflexively feathering the brakes to no avail. It will be interesting to see what zwift habits creep into my real riding by spring.

  • @alexeyalexandrov7583
    @alexeyalexandrov7583 5 лет назад +4

    Does hands positioning (hoods/drops) indicate drafting (yeah, I know speed also affects hands positioning )? My avatar changes hands positioning on workout like on free ride when I ride 35-40 km/h.

  • @TheSheptys
    @TheSheptys 6 лет назад +1

    Would be nice if they work on that brake effect, it can be a pain in big groups because you have to crank it to get back on like you say. Even downhill its way to easy to drop a bunch

  • @alexspencer7170
    @alexspencer7170 6 лет назад +4

    I think also, that if you see your avatar on zwift sit up whilst sitting on a wheel, that indicates that you are drafting? That only applies if you have been chasing on to get to the wheel....I think, maybe....?

    • @GoustiFruit
      @GoustiFruit 6 лет назад +1

      Yeah, I also read that somewhere...
      I wish they had an indicator like they have in OneLap (at least last time I tried).

    • @ghostridersnr
      @ghostridersnr 6 лет назад

      No I don’t believe that’s right. You see yourself sit up to help you visually identify yourself.

    • @GoustiFruit
      @GoustiFruit 6 лет назад

      Well, did a quick search:
      - zwiftinsider.com/rider-hand-position/
      - zwiftinsider.com/zwift-drafting/

  • @TooManyGooglAccounts
    @TooManyGooglAccounts 6 лет назад +2

    One thing I found interesting is that FE-C does actually have a data page for wind resistance and drafting which I assume was supposed to be used to make it feel easier while drafting. However nobody seems to have used it and developers went the easier route of just making you faster while drafting.
    The wind resistance stuff even made it into Bluetooth FTMP which implies somebody made a good argument for its inclusion but who is actually using it?

    • @Wesrl
      @Wesrl 3 года назад

      GTA bike seems to use it according to simant. I am planning on using in a very devious way for my app

  • @michaelcyr9731
    @michaelcyr9731 4 года назад

    Great videos Shane! On the subject of Zwift and drafting, can you produce a video about the sticky draft that seems to exist within zwift? I am also curious if this issue is something that can be avoided by adding steering to my rig? I really wish the zwift platform didn't feel that I need assistance as to how to ride in the draft or get to a wheel. Their draft assist is infuriating when you're overtaking a rider going a bit slower (2mph or 3kph) only to be instantly slowed to their speed like hitting a wall. I am also puzzled as to why I can be riding along with three other riders and if I am drafting them, at the tail of our group, I am the only one of us 4 that is affected by the sticky draft? I would really like to hear your input on the subject. Thanks and keep up the great work!

  • @Dr.Schlitz
    @Dr.Schlitz 6 лет назад +6

    This doesn’t make sense to me. Going faster at the same wattage is the same thing as feeling a difference. You feel a difference in the absence of the harder effort it would otherwise take to maintain increased speed. That said, I find the draft effect in Zwift is far too small. They really need to fix this. When you latch on to a group, your watts should go down more than they do currently.

    • @Dr.Schlitz
      @Dr.Schlitz 6 лет назад +1

      Indeed. In my experience, the 30% power saving that people commonly mention for drafting is real. On the road, I've been in a big group flying along at maybe 60% of FTP vs 90% FTP at the front. I did a big group ride in Florida once. In the group, I was not pushing very hard. I dropped my bottle and stopped to pick it up, but at that point, the ride was OVER for me. Even at a TT-type effort I could not catch back on. I've never experienced that level of draft in Zwift, which is one of the main reasons I don't bother with Zwift group rides.

    • @atanasg
      @atanasg 6 лет назад +1

      Hah! I am not used to drafting IRL so I thought I was doing something wrong when trying to make it happen on Zwift. Glad to know it's not just me! Though I guess I'd be happier if it gets fixed instead.

  • @peebee1357
    @peebee1357 6 лет назад +3

    Breaking the draft to get past is also worth a mention, very sticky sometimes

    • @gplama
      @gplama  6 лет назад +3

      More soon in Drafting 102 - BIG Bunch Positioning and getting around that rider doing 0.1wk/g less than you on the front! ;)

    • @peebee1357
      @peebee1357 6 лет назад

      Shane Miller - GPLama excellent #rideon

  • @CentristRN
    @CentristRN 4 года назад +1

    Vids are informative. The inability to drift in the pack really threw me off at first. Takes away from the realism.
    Many times I’m in draft but Zwift moves me right or left then prompts close gap to next rider. Any hints?

    • @gplama
      @gplama  4 года назад

      Drafting in a pack works... it's just very different than drafting outside.

  • @bruceperry1408
    @bruceperry1408 2 года назад

    No mention of what seems a lag time for the indicator that you are in (or out) of draft.

  • @ashfield001
    @ashfield001 6 лет назад +1

    Great tips. Thanks Lama

  • @steffilomi9328
    @steffilomi9328 3 месяца назад

    Do I draft the rider in front of me, if I am shown behind him/her, but parallel?

  • @michaelsteven1090
    @michaelsteven1090 2 года назад

    Everytime I get on a lone wheel, its holds for a few seconds and then (myself) moves left and loses the wheel..wtf?

  • @barretwaltz6631
    @barretwaltz6631 2 года назад

    How do you tell if you're drafting? Does your avatar do anything to indicate it or is there anything else to visually tell?

    • @gplama
      @gplama  2 года назад +1

      See 'Drafting Cues' here over on ZwiftInsider: zwiftinsider.com/zwift-drafting/

  • @hotshot430
    @hotshot430 6 лет назад

    Hi Shane , can you give a 54 year young advice with zwift on group racing . I am using a basic turbo ( got a tacx flow coming next week ) and i have done 3 races so far in group D . My main thing is that i get blown away from the start and struggle to keep up . My garmin will say I am doing 18 mph ( average 16mph outside ) but i just cant keep up with 90% of D group . My last race I was 17 mins behind the winner of the D group and was bloody knackered . Would be able to offer some tips etc . Great videos by the way

    • @gplama
      @gplama  6 лет назад +1

      A few videos I can point you at: Bunch riding tips: ruclips.net/video/J4EwKUVO2pw/видео.html Speed/distance indoors vs outdoors: ruclips.net/video/gT--ftOFbfc/видео.html

    • @lkb3rd
      @lkb3rd 6 лет назад +1

      I am only 49 :P riding in the D class, and the starts are fast. You just have to do what it takes to hold the wheels, and hang on for a few minutes and it simmers down. Another tip is to make sure you are fully spun up to your takeoff wattage before the start timer hits zero. This assures that you are out of the gates at full speed. I usually start spinning it up as the last ten seconds counts down.

  • @vdiesel9944
    @vdiesel9944 5 лет назад +6

    I hate the "Close the gap" Message. I see it a 1000 times. Irritating.

  • @philadams9254
    @philadams9254 6 лет назад

    I tried to draft someone this morning but they were on the left side of the lane and I was on the right. As there is no way to move around, how do I get in the draft that way? They were just stuck at 10 o'clock and I could do nothing about it.

  • @forthosethatdontknowme8524
    @forthosethatdontknowme8524 6 лет назад

    Sooo, when is the Kickr Fan coming out? How 'cool' would that be...

  • @RixterNow
    @RixterNow 6 лет назад

    What's the difference when drafting with the 'Draft Boost' power up?

  • @bruceperry1408
    @bruceperry1408 2 года назад

    Seems different perceptions and use of language. If I don't see my watts drop (and I feel it) why would I draft? Just getting a ride with NO likelihood I will stay on or take a pull. I will still get dropped or find I have not been putting in decent effort previously.

  • @grumpyturnip
    @grumpyturnip 5 лет назад

    Shane, you mention you can't draft whilst in a structured workout. Is that correct? I've been doing quite a few workouts recently and it's always appeared you get sucked along by other riders (providing you're not on a TT bike).

    • @gplama
      @gplama  5 лет назад +1

      I don't recall saying that. If I did, I'm wrong.

    • @grumpyturnip
      @grumpyturnip 5 лет назад +1

      @@gplama Yeah, no worries man. It's late on in this video (2.42). It was mentioned just recently on the Zwift riders Facebook site, someone was giving advice and stated the same thing. From my experience It didn't seem correct so I just had a look about the web and ended up here which had me even more confused and confounded. Thanks for clearing it up 👍

  • @ketjuariittaa
    @ketjuariittaa 6 лет назад

    I don’t like that
    1)OK image that go up when you are closing up on draft. Why. It goes to area that 👍🏻up messages come up and that mess up consentration/get false expegtations. Not a biggy but noiense little pit x100 per ride. Why that ok can’t be static on its own area.
    2)we don’t have 100% down the hill speed when kousting. But still have 50% on uphill on same settings.

  • @Primetime_dads
    @Primetime_dads 4 года назад

    What about if your still pedaling but your watts do drop but not to zero, will you still draft .

    • @gplama
      @gplama  4 года назад +1

      Yes. You can produce less watts in the draft and maintain pace with the lead rider.

  • @michaelelphinstone7523
    @michaelelphinstone7523 6 лет назад +1

    Always great tips Shane, I am not sure if this has been done before but I run a compact group set (50/34 11-28T). I was wondering how I would simulate a 11-32T using the Reality setting... this is to help a slightly rounded middle aged man on Alpe du Zwift :). Is this just a %ratio equation perhaps this could be a next Swift Zwift Tip..

  • @k9kaf
    @k9kaf 6 лет назад +1

    I think by winning a Zwift package I will draft much better and increase my PB. Come on Llama, you know it makes sense

  • @daysetx
    @daysetx 5 лет назад

    Is draft 'power' affected by distance? For example at 5m it's 20% at 1m (OK) it's 100 %? Or the same for all distances?

    • @gplama
      @gplama  5 лет назад +1

      No idea. Zwift don’t publish that information and it’s difficult to test.

  • @tomar5e115
    @tomar5e115 4 года назад

    Why doesnt it drop the resistance a little?

  • @347cyclealt
    @347cyclealt 6 лет назад

    I've seen written online that some folks do feel some effect as far as resistance but one needs to have a connection with a small (short?) ping, and I think mine was longer than was stated since I'm on the other side of the country from zwift's servers. No idea if there's any truth to that though. I know I was initially disappointed when I first got my smart trainer and didn't feel the draft like I would in real life. I just use trainerroad for my workouts and zwift is just visual anyway lol

    • @gplama
      @gplama  6 лет назад

      The interaction with the trainer is all local between the machine/device and smart trainer - not related to latency with connectivity. We'd be screwed in Australia if that was the case. :)

    • @347cyclealt
      @347cyclealt 6 лет назад

      Not meaning to belabor the point, just wanted to share where I initially saw this bit of info support.zwift.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/115000003043-Drafting-benefit- where someone indicates that zwift support told him that he wasn't able to fully utilize drafting because of lost packets. But that might just mean that he and others just can't stay on wheels because of the lost data (essentially like your stopping in the video and having to put in efforts to latch back on). Love the channel btw!

    • @gplama
      @gplama  6 лет назад

      Ohh... this one. I vaguely recall this. And how absurd that support response was. Sorry to Zwift on this one... but if

  • @ghostridersnr
    @ghostridersnr 6 лет назад +8

    I personally think the braking effect is a little too strong.

    • @gplama
      @gplama  6 лет назад

      Agreed

    • @winterpowellart
      @winterpowellart 6 лет назад +2

      ghostridersnr I agree, sometimes I need to coast a bit to just sit up and give my bum a break.

  • @6ft8incyclist
    @6ft8incyclist 6 лет назад +2

    ZWift is t he only place I can draft, I am 6ft 8 in tall..

  • @hammerridecycling7630
    @hammerridecycling7630 4 года назад

    does it work on climb example on alpe du zwift?

    • @gplama
      @gplama  4 года назад

      Yes... but at those speeds the effect isn’t a lot.

  • @jyanperron2969
    @jyanperron2969 6 лет назад

    Can you explain us if name people that become red are related with drafting in zwift

    • @gplama
      @gplama  6 лет назад

      I believe the red names are a software bug with graphics drivers.

  • @DanielMorales-tl9ou
    @DanielMorales-tl9ou 3 года назад

    Very true! IT NEVER GETS EASIER 🤣🤣🤣

  • @justinpark8920
    @justinpark8920 6 лет назад

    Drafting doesnt work on my system. Anyone knows why? I am using classic trainer without powermeter. I did tour de zwift two days in a row but it never happened.

    • @gplama
      @gplama  6 лет назад

      We’re you on a TT bike?

    • @justinpark8920
      @justinpark8920 6 лет назад +1

      @@gplama tnx i just found the reason damn TT

  • @nonoypalaboy8836
    @nonoypalaboy8836 2 года назад

    haha whats the use of drafting effect if u dont feel it...that means u are using the same effort...i will wait for future smart trainer..

  • @jpprovost64
    @jpprovost64 6 лет назад +1

    how to record like we can see now

    • @gplama
      @gplama  6 лет назад

      Nvidia screen capture within Windows 10.

  • @biglampar556
    @biglampar556 6 лет назад

    When one is drafting I can see my avatar sitting up......but when someone else is drafting me the rider behind doesn't sit up. It would add more realism if the rider behind sits up too....otherwise everything looks very robotic.

  • @robin_stevens
    @robin_stevens 6 лет назад

    You forgot to mention what I need to do to get that pink jersey ...

    • @gplama
      @gplama  6 лет назад

      Select the Giro challenge and ride 1/2 the distance or more

    • @robin_stevens
      @robin_stevens 6 лет назад

      Thanks. Looking at the weather predictions, I think what to do tomorrow

  • @shooter7a
    @shooter7a 5 лет назад +1

    This seems stupid, at least if you have a smart trainer. Zwift is controlling your load...how hard could it be to have the load drop when in the draft. Hopefully over time Zwift will improve their physics modeling.

    • @Peakabike
      @Peakabike 5 лет назад

      Sounds stupid in theory but in practice how were they going to do that ? At the end of the day you won't have to be pedaling as hard to maintain speed so it is "easier".

  • @coltonmiller7436
    @coltonmiller7436 6 лет назад +1

    Hmm... seems like there's a bit more than just drafting going on in that thumbnail... :P

  • @BenSuzi1980
    @BenSuzi1980 Год назад

    Unbelievable this Program is out for more than 5 years -.- if i known earlier .....

  • @Xerp4Life
    @Xerp4Life 6 лет назад

    Hopefully *that guy* who insists on leading a group whilst racing until he blows up will see this and learn to benefit from sitting in the draft.

  • @stopspammingmesrsly
    @stopspammingmesrsly 4 года назад +1

    next week's tip - pushing pedals with feet

  • @andromada2282
    @andromada2282 6 лет назад +1

    Next video- Swift Zwift Tip: How to not get dropped

    • @Psyk078
      @Psyk078 6 лет назад

      Easy, improve fitness.

  • @babybelkin977
    @babybelkin977 6 лет назад

    That tee shirt is bad, let me send you a Colorado one so you won’t get egged haha

  • @thomasgiallo5899
    @thomasgiallo5899 6 лет назад +2

    First