Kel Tec SU-16 series Rifles: Simple to Maintain
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- The SU-16 Series Rifles are very easy to clean and maintain. Their Light weight and reliability make the SU-16 rifles fun to shoot, and they are currently less expensive than many other .223/5.56 rifles.
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Everybody should cool it and stop cursing each other out. If there's a mistake, be polite and mention it. They guy is making a good faith and very useful review and he's not the only source of information. No one is going to die over this. Everyone is here to exchange some information and talk about the gun so be pals for G's sake.
The most important difference between 223 Remington and 5.56 NATO are the chambers. The length of the throat (or leade) for each chamber is different. More specifically, the leade is located at the mouth of the barrel before the rifling occurs. Comparing the NATO and SAAMI regulations, the leade for 5.56 chambers is nearly twice as long as that of a .223 chamber (.162in to .085in, respectively). If a 5.56 round contacts the barrel rifling too early, it can cause pressure spikes leading to malfunction, and potentially damage in the chamber. This explains why it is safe to fire 223 Remington through a 5.56 NATO chamber, but not recommended to fire 5.56 through a .223 chamber.
Thanks. I have an SU 16c and love it, but disassembly was daunting. As a testament to how reliable it is... I have never cleaned it, nor have I ever had a malfunction! Love how light and compact it is. I put a Vortex Spark 2 on it and it's a great shooter.
Steve: Yes, this is a great "how to" video on SU16C disassembly/reassembly! I also have the same optic as you. May I ask what mount you used? I installed mine pretty close to the rail, and I didn't have much luck sighting it in yesterday at the range. Maybe I'd be better off using the higher mounting option?? ~ Craig
Very clear video on a sometimes unclear and awkward process - makes me want to check out an SU 16. Great point on the value of buying two guns for the price of one AR !
Love.Love.Love "My" KelTec...
While hiking with friends, I was the only one who didn't complain about carrying a rifle. It was in my backpack!
Thanks steelcurtain, and yes, all the SU-16's can use any AR type of magazine, including 100 round BETA mags. The SU-16's are essentially identical working mechanisms with the only differences being the stock on the Charlie, and they all have different barrels.
11-years later and I still want one. (The C-model)
Get E model
Yes it does; the piston translates to cleaner bolt carrier group after extended shooting with less cleaning. The DI guns are all good and fine and shoot fantastic...when you keep them clean and well lubed! That is why you are seeing more and more AR manufacturers designing their AR-15 platforms with the piston system over the older model DI systems.
Nice video. I shoot both 5.56 and .223 in mine. I have a SU-16CA which is the A model stock and the C model sights and barrel. I love this gun for the weight and the fact it is so freaking easy to maintain. Remember one thing, KEEP THE BOLT FORWARD and the TAB UP when reassembling. I can now do it in the dark with my eyes closed. Thanks for the good video.
I have a PLR 16 , It will make you smile .
Now I need one of these .
Heck yeah. When we first bought the Bravo, I thought only .223 could be shot from it, but I was totally wrong; all the SU-16's can fire both .223 and 5.56 just fine.
Cool, thanks man... while I like the AR platform, I have been looking for a lighter and something that travels more compactly than an AR system. I am actually looking at the Kel-Tec SU-16CA. Again, thanks for your comments.
@urbansurvivor101 good gun cleaning question, and a topic that I didn't even touch on in the vid. I'm sure there are some great gun cleaning vids, but I'll tell you generally what I do: use solvent to clean everything up good. Dry everything up good, then I lube everything up, but don't go too liberally with your oil of choice. ...and remember the manual where it mentions NOT to lube up the o-ring on the firing pin pin, or it will degrade quicker.
Sometimes a gentle wire brush helps too.
FT
If your rifle has overpressure issues because of the difference between 5.56 and .223 then it wasn't safe to shoot to begin with. I have no idea why people are concerned about that. If that was true then your your rifle is useless if you want to use high powered hunting ammo. I don't think a manufacturer would make their tolerances that bad.
@MichaelkSimmons
What is great about the CA, is that it has the barrel and sights of the C, yet sports the buttstock of the A and B models. The CA (as well as A & B) can't fire when folded, but who cares; shooting with the C folded may be fun, but it is much less accurate.
Are you too good for your home! That's excellent. One of my favorite comedy movies.. Thanks for the video!
@MrDobans13 I had a piston-based gun (SKS-43) actually jam due to carbon build-up in the gas tube and on the piston. So, it still requires maintenance. The only real difference, IMHO, is that it's much easier to clean the build-up from an SU-16 piston than off the insides of AR-15 action.
For the most part, you are right. While the .223 and 5.56 are the same general size, I have learned since the making of this vid that all the SU-16 rifles can fire both since they are chambered for 5.56 rounds. Thanks to so many good folks here on youtube, I now know (what is common knowledge) that a 5.56 rifle can fire both, but a rifle chambered in .223 can only fire .223, due to the higher pressure of the 5.56 round.
Just another reason to like these little SU-16's!
I want one so bad. 5.56 to me is just a literal 'rifle' round, so this is perfect for it lol.
It makes for the perfect truck gun too, two magazines on the weapon alone means you've got enough ammo to get away from something.
Thanks for this review! This video was one of many to help me clinch my decision to purchase the SU-16B this morning. This series come fully featured at a dang good price, and I love the utility of the magazine storage in the stock, as well as the portability options. So, even though you reviewed this two years ago, it's still helping people today! Thanks a bunch!
Excellent video !
I bought an SU16-C and a Mini-14 after obama got in.
I never cared for the "SPROING" that my brother's AR-15 imparted.
One thing I especially like about this weapon is its light weight and small size.
I can carry mine in a tennis-racket bag and no-one on the bus knows it's not a Wilson Racket.
I can stick it in my back-pack and hop on my Yamaha DT400 and head up to the hills for a day of ridin' n' shootin'.
At 4.7 #s I don't even notice it...unless I crash.
kel tec is a great company. i had a pf9 but had to let it go to pay bills. im gonna get another when i can afford it, not that expensive. and they accept s&w magazines. one of the best ccw in my opinion.
Hey folks, thanks for the great comments.
@DudeIsSteve: that sounds right, due to all the su-16 models have the '556' imprinted near the manufacturer name. I had "heard" that the su-16B with that thin-ass barrel required .223 only, but I can't even confirm that, so I'm with you.
I like this guy. He's very pleasant to listen too.
They can shoot the 5.56 they are specifically chambered for it. Thank you for the video!
Message of the video is right on. The breakdown and re-assemble is shown clear and concise. I've struggled w/ SU16A OEM manual, this is right on target. Thank you.
Excellent video based on the Happy Gilmore reference alone! Strong work.
Great video made it a lot simpler then I thought it would be
The Alpha I picked-up at a pawn shop for 400 out the door, while my girlfriend paid 500 for the Bravo including it shipped to our FFL. The Charlie was the most expensive, cost was 650 in the hard-to get market here in Seattle; and I had to wait a month from the factory. It can pay off to window-shop pawn establishments, if you don't mind buying used stuff.
These prices I mention are a couple of years old now, so shop around.
Great video ! I too have a Charlie. I stick it in my backpack and hop on my Yamaha 400 Enduro for a day in the hills. I putt through town and nobody knows I'm packin' a .223. I've carried it in a tennis-racket bag on a city bus and nobody knows. I go snowmobiling and nobody knows I've got a rifle and not a shovel. 30 rounds of .223 and nobody is freaked out because they don't even know I'm carrying.
Thanks. I have a SU 16c and really like it . No malfunctions and very lightweight. I have not taken it apart yet but after seeing your video I don't think I will have a problem.
A bit of an exercise in frustration after putting a different fore end on, then trying to line everything up :P Thanks for the video, definitely helped me get the bolt back in there.
My SU-16A is marked with 5.56mm on the magwell, so that's what I normally shoot through it. I could use .223 Rem as well, but prefer to go with what the chamber is designed for.
I have a 'C' mod, and have a compact 4x28 scope mounted on see through rings. I have just enough room to take it apart without removing my optic. Good vid.
@agenthelios1 Yes, it takes 30 round mags. For the SU16 C you really want 20 round steel mags for best results. 30 round steel mags do work with the folding stock but you may need to file the stock just a little to let it pass through freely. Mag Pul mags will fit the mag well but will not clear the stock hole of the C model.
Kel-Tec sells a replacement pistol grip/buttstck combo in an AR15 style group.
Pressures in the 5.56 cartridge are higher than the .223, and as a result the chamber of the 5.56 is different as well. There’s more throat length in a 5.56 barrel-about .077 inches-and the angle of the throat is different to accommodate increased pressures. It is, therefore, alright to fire a .223 cartridge in a 5.56 chamber, but going the other way can cause pressure problems. Simply put, the .223 doesn’t perform as well in 5.56 chambers as it could.
@Giantwolffish123 It all depends; The Alpha I found at a pawn shop nearly new, paid 400 even out the door. The Bravo my girlfriend bought, paying nearly 500 new and with it being shipped to our FFL. I paid the most for the Charlie, just over 650 new, in a hard-to-get-market (of Seattle), and had to wait for nearly a month for it backordered. Worth the wait though. Now I'm waiting for the PMR 30, but who the hell knows when those will start reaching all the folks waiting for kel tec to ship.
On youtube you get a lot of gung ho gun owners and ever so often you get someone who is genuinely fun to hear, you sir are that person
The SU-16a version that I have now has the same thicker barrel as the C does. The one on the top as the thinner barrel and is definately .223 only.
5.56x45 nato spec rounds have pressures around 15,000 more PSI than average .223 remington round. I could go on at length as to why but the difference is explained :-)
Great, Thanks, the manual sux, just put 300 rnds thru at Frontsight, need to clean it. Great video. Thanks for taking the time to do it.
Both cartridges are interchangeable. Final word. Now if you reload; military brass is thicker, and will give you higher pressure, because internal space in the case is less. Other then some tiny differences, INTERCHANGEABLE.
Thanks, glad you liked it!
I like the Alpha with the ability to slip a 30 round mag in the stock, and I like the Charlie due to the folding stock...ah shit, I don't know man, that is a hard question, I guess I might like the Charlie a bit more with it's thicker barrel and better front sight. Yep, SU-16C is my recomendation when it comes right down to it. Thanks for watching, 77.
I really like the SU-16 Alpha since I cut the polymer front sight off and replaced it with the Bravo metal sight, but in all honesty it doesn't matter, because the Charlie model is my favorite rifle from the SU-16 series. As far as reliability, the SU-16 rifles have gained a good reputation from the days of "it is a plastic toy gun" to the current following that proves it will just keep on plugging away. The Kel tek haters will always say they are junk, but they don't own one, so who cares!
I've been trying to find a Su-16, Sub2000, and PMR 30 for the longest with no avail come on Kel-Tec!!!!!
It looks like a winner to me! I have been looking for a 5.56 rifle that wont break the bank.
@sabotnoh I am well aware that they are the same size, but they are not the same same round. The NATO 5.56 round produces higher pressures that can damage a rifle that is designed to only fire .223 rounds. Fortunately the Kel Tec SU-16 is designed to fire either round.
wow nice collection of kel tecs i decided to get the mini bc I am a ruger fan but I love that 16c.
Hmm, the moa.. Well, for me, who buys cheap-ass ammo(never steel case or surplus, just cheap), I'm guessing 3+ or so. But I've never measured a darn thing, so I might be talking big. It aways comes down to the breathing, the trigger pull, my beer, and whatever excuse I can come up with. "the sun was in my eyes!" -is always a good one!
In all seriousness, There are of folks shooting darn well with the SU-16's, even saying better accuracy than the mini 14, but I can't tell ya myself.
Oh yeah, the Charlie model's stock clicks into place and is solid as all hell. No movement or wiggle, and I have slammed it into place many a' time. It may look long, lanky, and odd, but it feels oh so good.
@domitrias Del Ton also has a Kit on their website for around $469.00 which includes everything but the stripped lower.
@domitrias Thanks, you are so right; I have been watching the 2012 shot show vids, and I am amazed at the entry level prices that the AR manufacturers are making available.
Very impressed! I've owned a 16a for many years and have yet to field strip it as fast as you did.Cudos my friend
@zaitcev Yeah, I'm glad this vid could help, the little trick is to make sure the bolt is held forward after you have the operating handle in and everything ready to slide into place. Then it's smooth as butter. I'll head over and check out your video on it.
Thumbs up for working persnickety into a gun video
I know what you mean, and for that very reason I am now looking at the RFB. I have heard only good things about Kel Tec's 308, and I have never owned a bullpup rifle but always wanted one. Of course, the .223 is a heck of a lot less expensive to go shootin' with than the 308, but I still want one!
@GUNS4MIKE1234 Heck yeah, to both questions. The stock on all the rifles are tight, but I bet you mean the SU-16C, since it looks long, thin and light. Lemme tell ya, the stock is fantastic; tight as all hell, and has a full length of pull for a perfect full sized comfortable feel. No wobble, no wiggle.
Thank you so much for this video! I absolutely love my Keltec Su-16C. So much I want the Alpha model and maybe even one of those sick shorty models
Great video dude, one thing just messed me up was to make sure that the spring loaded catch for the bipod must be in the proper position. Or you can get all the way to the end and realize the catch was in the wrong position... Great little rifle, I really like it!
If they say 5.56 on the rifle which all su16 models do then they are made for the higher pressure rounds as well as 223.
It's so simple and effective design
Nice video. I have the CA and was concerned about the dust cover. Your video clearly address all my concerns. I love my gun and will enjoy more now that I have broken it down once. Thanks!
5:55 is the best advice one can get
Thank you for the no-bullshit video. I now know how to service an SU-16.
"...Charlie model is my favorite rifle from the SU-16 series."
@MrDobans13 Lots of folks say that piston is more reliable over DI, especially over time as all the filth is injected directly into the workings of the DI rifles, while the piston rifles keep nearly all the grime up front at the piston head. Of course it is also certainly said that DI guns are all sorts of reliable when you keep them properly maintained and lubed...all the time. My choice? The AK of course, which also answers your question in my book; I trust the AK-47 piston over any DI gun.
Cool, cap'n! And it fits nicely in a mountain pack too (for a full sized .223 rifle, ya know.)
The Alpha model does not have a threaded barrel under that big plastic front sight. What I did was cut-off the plastic front sight and replaced it with the Bravo model's front sight. I like it much better.
I bet you could have the barrel threaded by a gunsmith, but then you would have no front sight and would have to rely on just your optics.
I watched those same Nutnfancy vids and was a little leary of how it came apart but you made it look pretty simple. Good job and Thanks. I see a SU-16C in my future.
@FrikinTastik Yeah, I was very impressed how easy you made it look.
I bet my plr16 that the same dust cover will fit all su and plr models. They all seem to have very similiar looking receivers
Yeah, it is a nifty idea Kel Tec designed, but I think it is a novelty that is much too rickety to be very useful. There are some vids out there of folks using the forend bipod, and it does work for the most part, but I will never use the bipod even though I love these lightwieght rifles.
To your other question regarding the commonality of built-in bipods? No, just Kel Tec as far as I know. For everybody else, the accessory flip-down bipods are better in every way...except the weight.
@johnywinslow In the case of all the SU-16's, the length of pull is longer than that of the AK's original stocks (NATO?), which do feel a bit dinky for tall folks. I am six-one, and the light little SU-16's have a full-sized rifle lenght of pull that feels just right for me, and with good cheek weld. Go to your local shop and check 'em out; you will be amazed at how light they are, but also how the stock feels in relation to your size.
You should look into AR-15's now if you still want one because now they are the same price for a mil-spec AR-15 by Doublestar or Olympic Arms. Something to consider.
Kel Tec has become infamous for designing their rifles, carbines, bull-pup and shotguns to the point of overwelming popularity....but you can't find them anywhere. I had to order my Charlie, and wait a month for it to finally arrive. As far as the sub 2000, I am looking to pick one up after the new year; but I'm just going to order it and I figure I'll just have to wait.
"Come on Kel Tec!! Folks will buy your products if you damn-well make them available!!"
@agenthelios1 Good question agent, but I feel I am not able to give you the answer you are looking for, since I never buy the best ammo available for .223 or 5.56 rifles. I always buy the lower-middle of the road ammo that is affordble. I never buy the cheapest steel cased ammo either, since it is so filthy to shoot. I would guess that the expensive match-grade ammo available could give better performance than standard stuff.
Also the SU-16 will fit any mag for AR's, including the 100rd!!
The smallest magazine for the SU-16's is the polymer ten rounders that come with the rifles, but I've never even used them; not when the thirty rounders are affordable and much more fun... 'cept for the folks in Cali, thirty round mags are far too illegal.
@DoctorSess brand new keltecs are usaully expected to jam when their brand new
loved the video!
sold a 9mm now I just need another $375! and that baby's mine!
A 5.56 barrel can fire both rounds, .223 is not safe for 5.56 rounds unless the barrel specifies that it is 5.56 safe. I usually just get a 5.56 barrel so I don't have to worry.
Hope this helps.
@madmattdisease92 Thanks M, and a tough question to answer. It currently is a toss-up between the Alph and Charlie. They all shoot great, but I would think that the thin barrel of the Bravo would not stand it's ground with the thicker barrelled Charlie, and yet the Alpha has the longest barrel, which is known to have the attribute of potentially better accuracy. I have never put them to a side-by-side bench resting test...hey, that ain't a bad idea!
If it says .223 , don't put 5.56 through it. If it says 5.56, it's good for both. They did make one for a short time that had only .223 on it, that said the twist rate is perfect for 5.56 (1 in 7").
Excellent just what I was looking for Thanks for your time.Picked one up in a trade Didnt like it at first then liked it then Hated it However Now I see the light this thing is Kick Azz .Ultra Light,Adgile,and Accurate & Compact:Definitely something special.I do have a Vid just put out on stabilizing the forgrip accessory rail Hac.
Great video. Thanks. I have always been a fan of companies that make different and unique guns, such as Kel Tec and Hi Point. I have the Hi Point 9mm carbine and the JHP 45 pistol and have fired 1000 rounds (almost) through each without any issues. I ran the pistol for 700 rounds before I cleaned it. I'm planning to get the Kel Tec SU 16C soon. I already have a Kel Tec sub 2000 40 cal and it shoots great! I wonder why these guns get such a rap for being bad to mediocre? These are very ingenious designs.
@FrikinTastik i Love the Compact Forend!the price is great, and is very comfortable. the conversion is tricky to get on the rifle. i have the Alpha model, so i took the forend to a gunsmith that put it on. i love how my Kel Tec looks now. i think Kel Tec has some in stock still.
Yep, the SU-16 rifles are chambered for 5.56 NATO, so you are right about the compatability with .223 Remington.
At the time when I made this vid, I thought that the Bravo model with that thin barrel could only fire .223, but I was way wrong; they are all 5.56.
If they dont already, Kel Tec should make an SU-16 design but in 7.62x39
@FrikinTastik Yeah I was debateing the folder or the su-16ca with the fixed stock because I want something that wont break if it's run over or if it's dropet etc.
wish they made this in 5.45, i would get one in a heartbeat
I always have trouble sliding the carrier assembly into the receiver. Even shot a RUclips video about it. :-)
Hey just got my su-16c and I love it! Great video! Very good tutorial. Really appreciate you taking the time to make it.
Great video. I think this is the way to go if looking for a 223 that is still a good value.
Good job on the explanation and dissassembly of this unique and cool rifle.
@TheDanScarps Thanks; it is a great little rifle.
Most excellent video!!! Thanks!
@BestMusicTaste Yes, the SU-16's definately can incorporate the 100 round drum mag (although I don't have any). Check out the Nutnfancy review where he clicks one in...it looks so damn cool!
@SirWilliam318
Thank you, SirWilliam. Yeah, these little rifles are great, glad the vid helps!
Kel Tecs are AWESOME!