23:55 A very thorough review on its functions, interface and build. No one else I've watched looked inside like you did. Like the new look of this machine and yourself!
If you're in east/southeast Asia, you'd have no problem getting the parts for this. The motherboard on my 4-year old CRM3007G (earlier version of this machine) unit got fried from a power surge and I bough a replacement motherboard for $15 from the same store I got the machine from. Corrima/Gemilai machines are pretty well-established in Asia, often seen in a lot of local cafes, so parts are very easy to come by. The Gaggia Classic Pro, on the other hand, costs 3 times as much here ($1000) and parts have to be ordered overseas - the local distributor doesnt sell them.
to support that. it’s sale season here so you can get it for just under US$400 where I’m from. it is so popular over here. I kind of don’t understand why it’s US$100 more in the US. it’s literally the same as the Gemilai CRM3007Z.
For the last couple of weeks I've been doing a lot of research on coffee machines and basically everything about coffee as I'm looking to get into it and purchase a decent home set-up. I also live in S/E Asia and I've come to the same conclusion. All these well-known brands in the West are hugely overpriced over here. A $500 "budget" machine back home is $1000 over here, making it a total waste of money. It's definitely better to go for one of the local brands or Chinese as you'll get far better value for money. The downside is that there are far less reviews and info available in English.
17:20 Lance is the ONLY coffee-guy who points out the PCB boards and speaks of their vulnerability. Machine was looking good until I saw that. I don't have good luck with 'electronics' in kitchen appliances, rarely get 2 years before something fails.
I got this machine (They sold under "Zentis" brand in Thailand) with a DF83 ... can't complain I like the setup. No issues so far for the last 2 years.
I love this machine, I have the miicoffe apex branded version and a DF64 gen 2 grinder. In accessories a cheap scale and wire distribution tool are a necessity, I also have a nice bottomless portafilter and a shot mirror for fun. I have it for 6 months and I still look forward to every morning because I love the espresso so much. (I don’t do milk drinks)
I ordered this one over the gaggia classic pro because of its features including automatic function for my wife. I couldn’t imagine teaching my wife how to use a gaggia classic even with all the mods. With that being said, I’ve had this for almost a month now and we’re enjoying it very much. I hope it lasts us at least a few years.
@ yes. That would require a scale and timer to know when to stop the pull. The legato auto feature can be set to a time without needing to rely on a scale. All I have to do is dialing in grind size and time whenever I get new beans, then adjust auto button time accordingly
@@evmdafilipino No, forget about scales, forget about timers. That's some reddit nerd stuff. You fill portafilter with coffee, tamp and put espresso cup under it and pull a shot like a real Italian. Then you drink it in hurry and smoke a cigarette.
I went with an Lelit machine because they have brass boilers over the group head and the machines are built in Italy. Machine has a PID and pressure gauge + a built-in grinder. I also purchased a separate grinder as well..
I feel like you didn't want to review this machine. Your vibe is different here. I agree that a GCP with a Gaggiuino is awesome, but I also know that it is impractical for most(if I take the guts out of an electronic device, it's toast, I've done it). Though even stock I preferred the espresso from mine to my Bambino Plus for whatever that is worth. Thanks for the video as always.
And now the Gagguiuno has closed its source, which is cooked. I’m not putting closed source shit on my network that controls a high voltage high pressure thing with no warranty.
Have used Legato V2 for about a month. Kinda hard to find fault with it. The steam wand being slow might be the biggest gripe. Overall the Legato is killer for $500!
No waaaaaaaay I bought the Gemilai version in China 4 years ago. Absolutely LOVED it. Had to leave it in China when I came back to the US. When I bought it I was looking all over the place for reviews to see if it was worth it and there were none. My review on Taobao has thousands of views and sooooo many people bought it because of that review. I feel like I started something 🤣
And another shocking news for you, the upgraded version in the video with customized OPV (which is called Gemilai 3007Z) is actually now on Double 11 sale on Taobao at the price of 2124.5 RMB (299 USD).
@@mousekenny I got mine for 1939rmb in 2021. I even reached out to the company and told them I'd love to help advertise on RUclips. They weren't interested lol.
Question was asked about Pre-Infusion Below: The Turin Legato V2 Pre-Infusion settings are in "seconds". Two time setting parameters: First is the pump run time (1-10sec): Second is the pause time until the pump is re-activated to continue the extraction (1-10sec) I've been using both values set to 5 secs. The OPV remains closed to maintain pressure on the puck during entire time. The Flow Valve Adjustment screw (left side of group) can be used to adjust water flow rate. Lance recommended to set & leave but the screw can be adjusted during the shot. Each quarter turn is approx 1.2ml/sec to a max of approx 7ml/sec. I added a double split shaft collar (4mm bore) to give a "18mm handle" to the screw (amazon)
A few thoughts: 1. PCB stands for Printed Circuit Board, so PCB Board is sort of redundant. 2. For anyone so inclined (and assuming it's possible to fully remove) the PCB could be removed and coated in clear nail polish or sprayed with a coating made for waterproofing electronics. Based on the little I could see of the board in this video, it wouldn't protect the entire board because there a few parts that can't be coated, but it would definitely help.
lol I love that Lance doesn't respond to many comments, and only replies to comments made right after a video upload as far as I've noticed, but he felt like calling you out on that. lol (I agree with you. 😅)
@@LanceHedrick Thanks for all of the great entertainment and coffee education! You're a gem! (if you ever wanna review the Profitec Go, I'm on the fence and wondering if it's worth all of the counter space vs. a Gaggia E24 or Silvia with PID mod... 😁)
Good initial review, with an excellent abstract summary and philosophical comparison to competitors. Unfortunately, given that most devices are designed with built-in planned obsolescence, only long term reviews can capture the overall long term reliability and durability-and even then only if the machine being reviewed wasn't "specially furnished" to the reviewer by the manufacturer (in other words, it must be the mass produced, off the shelf model, not a prototype or other special unit). Unfortunately, this important characteristic (especially for stuff that costs hundreds of dollars) is not captured in reviews that don't test over long periods of time. Of course it's also true that some people are absolutely not interested in DIY repairing anything, even devices made to be user serviced (like KitchenAid mixers, where you can replace pretty much every single mechanical component with an OEM part that can be bought online). This machine looks less oriented toward those types of users, and additionally it may be difficult or impossible to source any of the parts, if they break.
In Brazil, the cheapest machine you could get a decent coffee is the Philco 15-bar. US$80,00. By changing the portafilter to a non pressurized one plus a good grinder, you can get very good shots! You should try it. There's also a community that shares content about upgrading this machine by installing PID and manometer.
Wish I could like it twice! Thank you for covering this machine! I've since upgraded to the Ascaso you covered, but I did have a MiiCoffee Apex. I upgraded my apex with a no burn steam wand ($50) and I designed and 3d printed a better steam knob (look on printables if you are interested). One downside to the gcp (compared to this) is the non standard portafilter wings. It makes it much harder to buy accessories for.
This video was perfect timing! I was waiting on an in-depth review of this machine. Between this and the new E24 Gaggia, looks like I'll be getting the E24.
I think for the money and the feature set I'd have a hard time complaining about the build, but too many experiences with the BDB leaking makes me nervous about those fittings that use the spring clips.
I expect to be buying a “similar” machine in the near future. Initially I was pretty set on something like the Profitec Go or Lelit Victoria, but this, to someone uneducated in these matters, seems like the Turin offers pretty similar performance for a significant lesser cost. I know that from a durability standpoint it will likely not be as durable, but from a performance standpoint, which of these machines do you believe has the better performance out-of-the-box. Edit: While, of course, I don’t want to purchase something that will break almost immediately, if I do find that I indeed like this hobby I would be ok to upgrade soonish. So really long term durability is not as big of a concern for me.
Hi, i was actually on the same boat with you! A first time coffee machine buyer, with zero knowledge and experience prior. I was debating between gcp and rancilio silvia, and ended up buying profitec go 😂 (it was all right before i knew about miicoffee apex). The machine has many flaws, but after getting them all worked out, i have no regrets. For me it's going to be my end game home machine, well at least for the next 5-10 years until/if new game changing innovations come out, otherwise i'll stick with it. With profitec go, i think i'm only missing the flow profiling (for now), along with the single boiler which isn't really that big of a deal for a non professional home usage
@@fien2706 Thank you for sharing your experience !! If you don't mind me asking, what flaws are you seeing in the profitec ? I'm also considering the QuickMill Pop Up, as it also brings flow profiling.
@@fien2706 I have Profitec Go and dreo barista maker. 3 minutes and I have pulled my shot and frothed milk. No more purging steam wand and refilling boiler. for $89 I couldn't recommend it more.
Definitely interesting! I was planning to get the bambino plus as I cant be bothered doing the gaggiuino mod on a gaggia or rancilio at the moment but this looks like a really good alternative. Temperature control, PID, adjustable OPV, thermoblock for fast steam, good price. It has all the features I'd want at the moment. Plus 58mm accessories mean I can upgrade to another machine in the future without rebuying all the bits. 7 min warm up time is also pretty good compared to the reported 20 for the GCP. Edit: it seems that it's the miicoffee apex v2 in europe. I messaged support and the 220v version should be available early next year.
I just purchased the Gemilai Version on this machine on discount for black Friday here is the US. I am switching from a BBE and hoping with this and the pickup of an Encore ESP I will see noticeable improvement in shot quality.
1 degree on that fluke with that tc could just be in the statistical error range. Also that T type tc should be calibrated with an offset chart along with the fluke to give a true temp. Source: I do pyrometry calibration in the medical and aerospace industries.
@@LanceHedrick T Type is perfect for what you're doing, just need to get it calibrated along with the fluke if you want the recorded offsets. The annoying thing with tc wire is that an offset at 0C can be wildly different than 200C, its not linear since the reading is a conversion from mV to degrees. And you only really need the calibration if you care about being dead accurate. +/- 1 C isnt a huge deal in most applications.
I know that the v2 has changed that can be made to both the pre-infusion amount and it's timer. What should these look like? How many ml of pre-infusion for how long? For an 18g dose
On Turin Legato V2 Pre-Infusion settings are in "seconds". Two time setting parameters: First is the pump run time (1-10sec): Second is the pause time until the pump is re-activated to continue the extraction (1-10sec) I've been using both values set to 5 secs. The OPV remains closed to maintain pressure on the puck during entire time. The Flow Valve Adjustment screw (left side of group) can be used to adjust water flow rate. Lance recommended to set & leave but the screw can be adjusted during the shot. Each quarter turn is approx 1.2ml/sec to a max of approx 7ml/sec. I added a double split shaft collar (4mm bore) to give a "18mm handle" to the screw (amazon)
We all know the true budget king, i got the hibrew h10a for 80 bucks total shipped new from the factory itself on the randomest flash sale on temu. Thats insane for the performance and i didnt want a solenoid for easy maitenance, so win win. Thanks for all the tips!
I got a similar machine, except i think mine's the base model(?) it's called stroker espresso machine in my countru. It's a really great machine for it's price
@LanceHedrick what would be the best single boiler espresso machine for home use on the market based on its build quality and service? I know there are many, but if you had to choose one, which would it be? Good luck on your channel and see you in the next video.
"Inside that factory, Chinese law applies, and Chinese law is supreme" "Even though it's the United States of America?" "The flag doesn't fly inside there"
@@LanceHedrickApex Expresso search gives me a US site Miicoffee. I can find the V1.1 on Amazon Germany but not this version. Do you have a link to a EU site that sells this version.
what's the best out of the box machine for around $1000? You said in your depth vs diameter video that smaller diameter portafilter sizes that are deeper are probably better than 58mm so is a 54mm, 51mm or 49mm for up to around $1000 the best choice and what would be the choices?
@adhityaikrar984 ralat Yang perlu dimmer mod itu model sebelumnya. Kalau yang model ini udah ga perlu karena udah ada baut setting opvnya. Dimmer mod itu buat ngatur tekanan om. Biasanya di pakai di mesin yang masih pakai 2way selenoid. Jadi dimmernya itu ngatur tegangan pompanya supaya ga terlalu kuat karena biasanya mesin 2 way selenoid pompanya langsung gas tekanan maximal jadi satu satunya cara buat ngatur tekanan cuma dari grind size/kepadatan tamping. Tapi kalau di mesin ini udah ga perlu karena bisa di atur langsung opv nya. Di indo mesin ini di jual dengan merek latina Altro 2. Harganya 6.5 JT. Kalo pas diskon bisa dapat 6 JT di marketplace
So, Lance, could you please clarify, does this machine come with a single hole water distribution and at 3:10 you replaced the original plate with a multihole plate? Or the multihole is the original one with the V2? Thanks!
Hi Lance! Just wanted to say that I’m a big fan of your work, fairly new into the hobby but got hooked to your content. Fun fact, with your last video I was like ‘wait a second, did he say Hedrick, without an N?’, somehow thought it was Hendrick 😅. Anyway, keep up the great work 🎉
Nah, that's the synthetic from Aliens. I like to think the "N" that people often give to Lance Hedrick is the same one they often take from James Hoffmann, it's weirdly wholesome!
What these machines do very effectively is to put very good espresso making capabilities into the hands of folks who are not “espresso hobbyists” but nonetheless desire a truly enjoyable espresso or cappuccino at home. If the machine lasts a decade, you’ve definitely gotten your money’s worth from it.
I have this machine and I notice you were still injecting air 30 seconds in when you were steaming. Is that an adjustment you made for this specific machine? I know typically you’ve said to inject air until it reach hand temp.
The only thing holding me back is the question of durability, how well it will hold on. Other than that, feature wise, this is a couple of iteration leap over the GCP e24.
Thank you for a great review i was thinking to buy the Turin Legato but i found something interesting and i would like to know your opinion on it... The QuickMill POP UP thank you in advance
A bit of a weird conclusion at the end. I still wasn't sure if you'd prefer this machine over the Gaggia if you were not planning on modding the Gaggia (which most people wouldn't so the out of the box state should be default in the comparison).
I am interested in the updated gaggiuino project. That appeals to me the most. I also play with microcontrollers on the regular so not exactly the normal coffee audience.
Hey Lance. Nice channel. I got a question for you: I like quad-shot white chocolate mochas from Starbucks. Currently i have been using Capresso EC100 for many years. But it seems like if i use the 4-shot basket and make 4 shots in load its not very strong. Is there a machine that can do 4 strong shots in 1 load? Recently i got a lever style coffee tamper; but being the idiot that i am, its for 57 and 58 mm baskets; so either need to get a 57/58mm espresso machine or break out my TIG welder and mod the press...
Noting this machine is the basis for the decent-like Kafmasino One, and you have just reviewed your decent-like Gagguino, can you review the Kafmasino? I would love to know your thoughts.
Hi @Lance, how would I go about reproducing that freshly roasted coffee smell from an iced americano from Starbucks. Idk what is it about it, but I get one every once in a while and when I take a sip that roasted aroma hits me and its great. It might be the taste too, not sure if the smell has the most impact on me
My employees really want an espresso machine in the office, but I am terrified of spending thousands on a machine no one will clean and maintain. Is there any good options for a machine for a shared space like an office full of people who almost never clean anything? I'm pretty much the only person who descales the current coffee machine, wipes down counters, etc.
This is a great machine! I have two and very easily can keep up with small groups of people doing back to back shots. Love the fast heat up time of this machine. Turin and Mii Coffee have great customer service. For the money I wouldn’t be too worried about the boards frying. Side note I use a different water profile in each machine with the Lotus water. Fun way to taste differences in the spro.
@@LanceHedrickWould you also recommend the GCP over a Lelit Anna? I'm really torn between the two. I know the GCP has more potential with modding, but I'm not super comfortable with doing that. I know the Anna is more expensive and has a nonstandard 57mm grouphead, but that PID out of the box seems worth it. I'm so torn.
@@LanceHedrick More interesting would be the H10Plus which adds three-way valve and 3 settings for maximum pressure - High for 9 bar, Medium for 7-8 bar, and Low for 6-7 bar.
wait - I missed it - why do you prefer the Gaggia at the same price point? and Isn't PID really important (if I want to be able to use light roast someday)?
Just got mine and used it for the first time today and now after 3 shots, water is leaking out of the flow control valve when I backflush. Found someone on Reddit with the same issue. Waiting to hear back from Espresso Outlet. So bummed if I have to return this thing already.
Beware those Gaggia classics with aluminum boilers. I just did my usual descale with the Gaggia solution and am now seeing evidence of corrosion after flushing through the steam wand several times.
Funny that you compare it to Lelit Victoria. i have a Lelit Grace and am not really impressed with the quality. Pump was clogged out of the box (serial issue) and I needed to use compressed air to get it going, water tank started leaking after a year (also serial issue) and steam knob starter malfuncionint after couple of months so it leaks from the steam nozzle
Hi mate. Why would you choose the Gaggia classic pro as opposed to the Rancilio that is better built? Just curious as those are my 2 options after havong a barista express for quite a few years. very aware of the health dangers of aluminium. Thanks in advance.
I was watching this video and learning more about this machine. I noticed the Gemilai G3007L does not have the screw on the right for pressure control. In your opinion does this really matter? Were you able to actually set it to 9 bar with it? I am still in my return window and am contemplating buying the Turin model. Thanks!
I’m curious about people’s perspective. I’ve just moved to the US and have had to abandon my gaggia classic at home. I plan to be here for 3-4 years and I’m torn between buying something like this machine, which may die or lose all its value. Or something in a tier or so above and reselling for the equivalent loss. I’m thinking a rocket apartamento, but open to suggestions!
Gemilai from taiwan 9yrs ago, they sold under Ferrati Ferro in indonesia cheapest workhorse kickstarter for many local coffeeshop in small town and villages 😂👍
4:25 no, no, the amount of outgoing water should be equal to the incoming water in the boiler and nothing else 13:27 with my eyes closed I can distinguish between 93℃ and 94 - drinks are radically different on medium espresso roast 17:09 the board is always closed only from direct water flows. when the boiler explodes, you will no longer need any 100% protection from water You are a good commentator and reviewer!
hey thx for detailed review always a pleasure watching the amount of detail you bring in, can you please share the sellers for UK BS standards cannot find one.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
23:55 A very thorough review on its functions, interface and build. No one else I've watched looked inside like you did.
Like the new look of this machine and yourself!
If you're in east/southeast Asia, you'd have no problem getting the parts for this. The motherboard on my 4-year old CRM3007G (earlier version of this machine) unit got fried from a power surge and I bough a replacement motherboard for $15 from the same store I got the machine from.
Corrima/Gemilai machines are pretty well-established in Asia, often seen in a lot of local cafes, so parts are very easy to come by.
The Gaggia Classic Pro, on the other hand, costs 3 times as much here ($1000) and parts have to be ordered overseas - the local distributor doesnt sell them.
This is a great comment! Enlightening
to support that. it’s sale season here so you can get it for just under US$400 where I’m from. it is so popular over here. I kind of don’t understand why it’s US$100 more in the US. it’s literally the same as the Gemilai CRM3007Z.
For the last couple of weeks I've been doing a lot of research on coffee machines and basically everything about coffee as I'm looking to get into it and purchase a decent home set-up. I also live in S/E Asia and I've come to the same conclusion. All these well-known brands in the West are hugely overpriced over here. A $500 "budget" machine back home is $1000 over here, making it a total waste of money. It's definitely better to go for one of the local brands or Chinese as you'll get far better value for money. The downside is that there are far less reviews and info available in English.
I have the v1 of the Turin legato. I'm new to espresso and probably looking to upgrade, but it's been a great machine to learn on.
Cannot wait for the gaggiuino updated review Lance!! Really looking forward to it, thank you as always.
17:20 Lance is the ONLY coffee-guy who points out the PCB boards and speaks of their vulnerability. Machine was looking good until I saw that. I don't have good luck with 'electronics' in kitchen appliances, rarely get 2 years before something fails.
I got this machine (They sold under "Zentis" brand in Thailand) with a DF83 ... can't complain I like the setup. No issues so far for the last 2 years.
good to hear. One of my hesitations would be longevity, so hearing that you've had yours for 2 years is useful info.
I looked on lazada but I cant find it, where is it sold?
@@michelgenetay5841 factcoffee
@@michelgenetay5841 in southeast asia, lazada, shopee, some would be branded as Gemilai
That’s a killer combo right there!
I love this machine, I have the miicoffe apex branded version and a DF64 gen 2 grinder. In accessories a cheap scale and wire distribution tool are a necessity, I also have a nice bottomless portafilter and a shot mirror for fun.
I have it for 6 months and I still look forward to every morning because I love the espresso so much. (I don’t do milk drinks)
I ordered this one over the gaggia classic pro because of its features including automatic function for my wife. I couldn’t imagine teaching my wife how to use a gaggia classic even with all the mods. With that being said, I’ve had this for almost a month now and we’re enjoying it very much. I hope it lasts us at least a few years.
I mean there is literally 1 button you press on gaggia. You dont need to temp surf, you dont need to mod it
@ yes. That would require a scale and timer to know when to stop the pull. The legato auto feature can be set to a time without needing to rely on a scale. All I have to do is dialing in grind size and time whenever I get new beans, then adjust auto button time accordingly
@@evmdafilipino No, forget about scales, forget about timers. That's some reddit nerd stuff. You fill portafilter with coffee, tamp and put espresso cup under it and pull a shot like a real Italian. Then you drink it in hurry and smoke a cigarette.
I went with an Lelit machine because they have brass boilers over the group head and the machines are built in Italy.
Machine has a PID and pressure gauge + a built-in grinder. I also purchased a separate grinder as well..
@@evmdafilipino
Or you can just mark the cup to 2 ounces...
I feel like you didn't want to review this machine. Your vibe is different here. I agree that a GCP with a Gaggiuino is awesome, but I also know that it is impractical for most(if I take the guts out of an electronic device, it's toast, I've done it). Though even stock I preferred the espresso from mine to my Bambino Plus for whatever that is worth.
Thanks for the video as always.
I agree... I can feel the subdued vibes
😂 Right? Could also be that he wasn’t having a good day? Whatever it is I hope he is doing alright.
And now the Gagguiuno has closed its source, which is cooked. I’m not putting closed source shit on my network that controls a high voltage high pressure thing with no warranty.
Agree
Just want to help out Incase anyone thinking of getting one. This is 3007z with PID and OPV. 3007L is without variable pressure.
Correct, 3007z . We call Legato V2
Great video. You’re looking great Lance!
Have used Legato V2 for about a month. Kinda hard to find fault with it. The steam wand being slow might be the biggest gripe. Overall the Legato is killer for $500!
I like the new haircut👌
I picked up a MiiCoffee Apex V2 a couple months ago and I love it! Such a nice machine out of the box
Got mine for $350 and espresso outlet presale. Definitely worth it at that price point
Picked up one of these with a $150 presale coupon and have been very happy with it coming from a Breville Infuser
Where
@Stevesbe the coupons are over they were only available during pre-sale
They were staggered from $200 to $50 off depending on how early you were
Which brand. Turin?
Thanks for sharing then 🙄
No waaaaaaaay I bought the Gemilai version in China 4 years ago. Absolutely LOVED it. Had to leave it in China when I came back to the US. When I bought it I was looking all over the place for reviews to see if it was worth it and there were none. My review on Taobao has thousands of views and sooooo many people bought it because of that review. I feel like I started something 🤣
Thank you, I have it and I love it too.
And another shocking news for you, the upgraded version in the video with customized OPV (which is called Gemilai 3007Z) is actually now on Double 11 sale on Taobao at the price of 2124.5 RMB (299 USD).
@@mousekenny I got mine for 1939rmb in 2021. I even reached out to the company and told them I'd love to help advertise on RUclips. They weren't interested lol.
We developed the first version together with the manufacturer. We had it for the first time in Europe.
Question was asked about Pre-Infusion Below: The Turin Legato V2 Pre-Infusion settings are in "seconds". Two time setting parameters: First is the pump run time (1-10sec): Second is the pause time until the pump is re-activated to continue the extraction (1-10sec) I've been using both values set to 5 secs. The OPV remains closed to maintain pressure on the puck during entire time. The Flow Valve Adjustment screw (left side of group) can be used to adjust water flow rate. Lance recommended to set & leave but the screw can be adjusted during the shot. Each quarter turn is approx 1.2ml/sec to a max of approx 7ml/sec. I added a double split shaft collar (4mm bore) to give a "18mm handle" to the screw (amazon)
"You just gotta sing a little song" ... hallelujah! That is the spirit, thank you, Lance!
I have this machine and although it’s my first machine It’s exceeded expectations and I pull amazing shots with it. Zero complaints.
Singing Lance just brightened up my saturday
A few thoughts:
1. PCB stands for Printed Circuit Board, so PCB Board is sort of redundant.
2. For anyone so inclined (and assuming it's possible to fully remove) the PCB could be removed and coated in clear nail polish or sprayed with a coating made for waterproofing electronics. Based on the little I could see of the board in this video, it wouldn't protect the entire board because there a few parts that can't be coated, but it would definitely help.
Pedantic.
@LanceHedrick that's fair 🤣
lol I love that Lance doesn't respond to many comments, and only replies to comments made right after a video upload as far as I've noticed, but he felt like calling you out on that. lol (I agree with you. 😅)
@@Jeremy-kg1zr i do respond to many. I just get a lot
@@LanceHedrick Thanks for all of the great entertainment and coffee education! You're a gem! (if you ever wanna review the Profitec Go, I'm on the fence and wondering if it's worth all of the counter space vs. a Gaggia E24 or Silvia with PID mod... 😁)
Good initial review, with an excellent abstract summary and philosophical comparison to competitors. Unfortunately, given that most devices are designed with built-in planned obsolescence, only long term reviews can capture the overall long term reliability and durability-and even then only if the machine being reviewed wasn't "specially furnished" to the reviewer by the manufacturer (in other words, it must be the mass produced, off the shelf model, not a prototype or other special unit). Unfortunately, this important characteristic (especially for stuff that costs hundreds of dollars) is not captured in reviews that don't test over long periods of time. Of course it's also true that some people are absolutely not interested in DIY repairing anything, even devices made to be user serviced (like KitchenAid mixers, where you can replace pretty much every single mechanical component with an OEM part that can be bought online). This machine looks less oriented toward those types of users, and additionally it may be difficult or impossible to source any of the parts, if they break.
I say that I prefer gaggia because of the issues you outline.
Fantastic review as always. Thank you Lance.
In Brazil, the cheapest machine you could get a decent coffee is the Philco 15-bar. US$80,00. By changing the portafilter to a non pressurized one plus a good grinder, you can get very good shots! You should try it.
There's also a community that shares content about upgrading this machine by installing PID and manometer.
Wish I could like it twice! Thank you for covering this machine! I've since upgraded to the Ascaso you covered, but I did have a MiiCoffee Apex.
I upgraded my apex with a no burn steam wand ($50) and I designed and 3d printed a better steam knob (look on printables if you are interested).
One downside to the gcp (compared to this) is the non standard portafilter wings. It makes it much harder to buy accessories for.
E24 and Gaggiuino v3 is dream. excited for that video.
Don't worry. I have this machine (the V1) and my upgraditits only says that I should buy a DF83V. And the Profitec Move is looking NICE!
No comment about the ease or difficulty or removing or servicing the drip tray?
Awesome review. Very thorough.
Love your content , very helpful!.. just subscribed!!!
This video was perfect timing! I was waiting on an in-depth review of this machine. Between this and the new E24 Gaggia, looks like I'll be getting the E24.
Why?
The GCP is pretty eh unless you do the gaggiuino mod
There's nothing better of E24 than this machine in terms of espresso taste if you don't do mods. But if you do, it's worth more than $1000 machine.
I think for the money and the feature set I'd have a hard time complaining about the build, but too many experiences with the BDB leaking makes me nervous about those fittings that use the spring clips.
So what is the difference between Legato v2 and Miicoffee Apex other than price? Which one is better quality and more durable?
I expect to be buying a “similar” machine in the near future. Initially I was pretty set on something like the Profitec Go or Lelit Victoria, but this, to someone uneducated in these matters, seems like the Turin offers pretty similar performance for a significant lesser cost. I know that from a durability standpoint it will likely not be as durable, but from a performance standpoint, which of these machines do you believe has the better performance out-of-the-box.
Edit: While, of course, I don’t want to purchase something that will break almost immediately, if I do find that I indeed like this hobby I would be ok to upgrade soonish. So really long term durability is not as big of a concern for me.
Hi, i was actually on the same boat with you! A first time coffee machine buyer, with zero knowledge and experience prior. I was debating between gcp and rancilio silvia, and ended up buying profitec go 😂 (it was all right before i knew about miicoffee apex). The machine has many flaws, but after getting them all worked out, i have no regrets. For me it's going to be my end game home machine, well at least for the next 5-10 years until/if new game changing innovations come out, otherwise i'll stick with it. With profitec go, i think i'm only missing the flow profiling (for now), along with the single boiler which isn't really that big of a deal for a non professional home usage
@@fien2706 Thank you for sharing your experience !!
If you don't mind me asking, what flaws are you seeing in the profitec ?
I'm also considering the QuickMill Pop Up, as it also brings flow profiling.
@@fien2706 I have Profitec Go and dreo barista maker. 3 minutes and I have pulled my shot and frothed milk. No more purging steam wand and refilling boiler. for $89 I couldn't recommend it more.
Love how spicy Lance is in this video 😂 Thank you for giving your honest opinion on what I think is an amazing machine.
Definitely interesting! I was planning to get the bambino plus as I cant be bothered doing the gaggiuino mod on a gaggia or rancilio at the moment but this looks like a really good alternative.
Temperature control, PID, adjustable OPV, thermoblock for fast steam, good price. It has all the features I'd want at the moment. Plus 58mm accessories mean I can upgrade to another machine in the future without rebuying all the bits. 7 min warm up time is also pretty good compared to the reported 20 for the GCP.
Edit: it seems that it's the miicoffee apex v2 in europe. I messaged support and the 220v version should be available early next year.
I just purchased the Gemilai Version on this machine on discount for black Friday here is the US. I am switching from a BBE and hoping with this and the pickup of an Encore ESP I will see noticeable improvement in shot quality.
1 degree on that fluke with that tc could just be in the statistical error range. Also that T type tc should be calibrated with an offset chart along with the fluke to give a true temp. Source: I do pyrometry calibration in the medical and aerospace industries.
Nice! Can you recommend a better tc?
@@LanceHedrick T Type is perfect for what you're doing, just need to get it calibrated along with the fluke if you want the recorded offsets. The annoying thing with tc wire is that an offset at 0C can be wildly different than 200C, its not linear since the reading is a conversion from mV to degrees. And you only really need the calibration if you care about being dead accurate. +/- 1 C isnt a huge deal in most applications.
I know that the v2 has changed that can be made to both the pre-infusion amount and it's timer.
What should these look like? How many ml of pre-infusion for how long? For an 18g dose
On Turin Legato V2 Pre-Infusion settings are in "seconds". Two time setting parameters: First is the pump run time (1-10sec): Second is the pause time until the pump is re-activated to continue the extraction (1-10sec) I've been using both values set to 5 secs. The OPV remains closed to maintain pressure on the puck during entire time. The Flow Valve Adjustment screw (left side of group) can be used to adjust water flow rate. Lance recommended to set & leave but the screw can be adjusted during the shot. Each quarter turn is approx 1.2ml/sec to a max of approx 7ml/sec. I added a double split shaft collar (4mm bore) to give a "18mm handle" to the screw (amazon)
We all know the true budget king, i got the hibrew h10a for 80 bucks total shipped new from the factory itself on the randomest flash sale on temu. Thats insane for the performance and i didnt want a solenoid for easy maitenance, so win win. Thanks for all the tips!
I got a similar machine, except i think mine's the base model(?) it's called stroker espresso machine in my countru. It's a really great machine for it's price
@LanceHedrick what would be the best single boiler espresso machine for home use on the market based on its build quality and service? I know there are many, but if you had to choose one, which would it be? Good luck on your channel and see you in the next video.
8:48 Why is it not a good idea to do a 33 sec blank shot? Is it bad for the pump?
what about transparency? Is it clear under which conditions these machines are being built?
"Inside that factory, Chinese law applies, and Chinese law is supreme"
"Even though it's the United States of America?"
"The flag doesn't fly inside there"
Can't seem to locate any version of this machine in Europe. With shipping, import duties and vat it's bringing it into quality brand territory.
As i said in the video, apex
@@LanceHedrickApex Expresso search gives me a US site Miicoffee. I can find the V1.1 on Amazon Germany but not this version. Do you have a link to a EU site that sells this version.
what's the best out of the box machine for around $1000? You said in your depth vs diameter video that smaller diameter portafilter sizes that are deeper are probably better than 58mm so is a 54mm, 51mm or 49mm for up to around $1000 the best choice and what would be the choices?
It’d be interesting to use a torque screwdriver and set the screw for the screen at different torques to see the differences it makes.
This model Also sell under brand latina at about 400$ in my country
Install dimmer mod and you can get adjustable brew pressure
Absolutely bangers
namanya apa om di market place? terus dimmer mod tu apa ya om?
@adhityaikrar984 ralat
Yang perlu dimmer mod itu model sebelumnya. Kalau yang model ini udah ga perlu karena udah ada baut setting opvnya. Dimmer mod itu buat ngatur tekanan om. Biasanya di pakai di mesin yang masih pakai 2way selenoid. Jadi dimmernya itu ngatur tegangan pompanya supaya ga terlalu kuat karena biasanya mesin 2 way selenoid pompanya langsung gas tekanan maximal jadi satu satunya cara buat ngatur tekanan cuma dari grind size/kepadatan tamping. Tapi kalau di mesin ini udah ga perlu karena bisa di atur langsung opv nya. Di indo mesin ini di jual dengan merek latina Altro 2. Harganya 6.5 JT. Kalo pas diskon bisa dapat 6 JT di marketplace
Lance is the man!!!!
Was hoping for this one ❤
So, Lance, could you please clarify, does this machine come with a single hole water distribution and at 3:10 you replaced the original plate with a multihole plate? Or the multihole is the original one with the V2? Thanks!
I replaced nothing
How would you compare this to the HiBREW H10A you reviewed a few videos back?
Hi Lance! Just wanted to say that I’m a big fan of your work, fairly new into the hobby but got hooked to your content. Fun fact, with your last video I was like ‘wait a second, did he say Hedrick, without an N?’, somehow thought it was Hendrick 😅. Anyway, keep up the great work 🎉
Nah, that's the synthetic from Aliens. I like to think the "N" that people often give to Lance Hedrick is the same one they often take from James Hoffmann, it's weirdly wholesome!
What these machines do very effectively is to put very good espresso making capabilities into the hands of folks who are not “espresso hobbyists” but nonetheless desire a truly enjoyable espresso or cappuccino at home. If the machine lasts a decade, you’ve definitely gotten your money’s worth from it.
Lance consider for a future review, the Quick mill pop-up with the flow control
or the Pop
@@jameswarr3921 yes, same machine but with thermoblock
@@After_GF I would really think this is up Lance's street - thermoblock with pressure profiling
Since he mentioned the name in this video, I do hope Lance will review the Profitec Go in the future.
Thank you Lance.
In Malaysia (probably China as well) the Gemilai version has reliable distributor for warranty claims and repairs. It sucks for other places though. 😅
I have this machine and I notice you were still injecting air 30 seconds in when you were steaming. Is that an adjustment you made for this specific machine? I know typically you’ve said to inject air until it reach hand temp.
Love the content Lance
Where are your shirts from by the way? Love them too
Solid vid 👌
The only thing holding me back is the question of durability, how well it will hold on. Other than that, feature wise, this is a couple of iteration leap over the GCP e24.
Ok I have to ask, where do you get those corduroy shirts??
The wendoogee look very nice , can't wait to see your take on it
Thank you for a great review i was thinking to buy the Turin Legato but i found something interesting and i would like to know your opinion on it... The QuickMill POP UP
thank you in advance
A bit of a weird conclusion at the end. I still wasn't sure if you'd prefer this machine over the Gaggia if you were not planning on modding the Gaggia (which most people wouldn't so the out of the box state should be default in the comparison).
100% prefer this over gaggia if not modding. I feel as if I said that but no worries! There ya go
I am interested in the updated gaggiuino project. That appeals to me the most. I also play with microcontrollers on the regular so not exactly the normal coffee audience.
Hey Lance. Nice channel. I got a question for you: I like quad-shot white chocolate mochas from Starbucks. Currently i have been using Capresso EC100 for many years. But it seems like if i use the 4-shot basket and make 4 shots in load its not very strong. Is there a machine that can do 4 strong shots in 1 load? Recently i got a lever style coffee tamper; but being the idiot that i am, its for 57 and 58 mm baskets; so either need to get a 57/58mm espresso machine or break out my TIG welder and mod the press...
Noting this machine is the basis for the decent-like Kafmasino One, and you have just reviewed your decent-like Gagguino, can you review the Kafmasino? I would love to know your thoughts.
Wonderful review! You mentioned Kafmasino twice, do we get a second attempt for a review? Love my Kafmasino One 🤩🙌🏻
Hi @Lance, how would I go about reproducing that freshly roasted coffee smell from an iced americano from Starbucks.
Idk what is it about it, but I get one every once in a while and when I take a sip that roasted aroma hits me and its great.
It might be the taste too, not sure if the smell has the most impact on me
My employees really want an espresso machine in the office, but I am terrified of spending thousands on a machine no one will clean and maintain. Is there any good options for a machine for a shared space like an office full of people who almost never clean anything? I'm pretty much the only person who descales the current coffee machine, wipes down counters, etc.
This is a great machine! I have two and very easily can keep up with small groups of people doing back to back shots.
Love the fast heat up time of this machine.
Turin and Mii Coffee have great customer service. For the money I wouldn’t be too worried about the boards frying.
Side note I use a different water profile in each machine with the Lotus water. Fun way to taste differences in the spro.
Would you recommend this over the hibrew machine?
The one I covered? Yes. Much better build, though I'd still say GCP
@@LanceHedrickWould you also recommend the GCP over a Lelit Anna? I'm really torn between the two.
I know the GCP has more potential with modding, but I'm not super comfortable with doing that. I know the Anna is more expensive and has a nonstandard 57mm grouphead, but that PID out of the box seems worth it. I'm so torn.
@@LanceHedrick More interesting would be the H10Plus which adds three-way valve and 3 settings for maximum pressure - High for 9 bar, Medium for 7-8 bar, and Low for 6-7 bar.
wait - I missed it - why do you prefer the Gaggia at the same price point? and Isn't PID really important (if I want to be able to use light roast someday)?
Build quality and mod potential.
Just got mine and used it for the first time today and now after 3 shots, water is leaking out of the flow control valve when I backflush. Found someone on Reddit with the same issue. Waiting to hear back from Espresso Outlet. So bummed if I have to return this thing already.
May I ask the name/brand of the cup used for the first “pulling espresso”? Thank you 😊
Lance literally NANOSECONDS from giving his Acaia a hot bath and I LOVE IT 😂🔥🙏
Noob here.. but looking forward to becoming a seasoned nerd! One quick question.. worth upgrading from my barista express? 🙏
Is a dimmer mod redundant on a machine like this with the adjustable opv? Or still a good idea if I want real pre-infusion and profiling
Patiently waiting on my Meticulous espresso machine… 😁🤩
Can‘t feel much of an excitement vibe in this video. That tells me more than all the words coming along with it 😅
Same
Beware those Gaggia classics with aluminum boilers. I just did my usual descale with the Gaggia solution and am now seeing evidence of corrosion after flushing through the steam wand several times.
Funny that you compare it to Lelit Victoria.
i have a Lelit Grace and am not really impressed with the quality. Pump was clogged out of the box (serial issue) and I needed to use compressed air to get it going, water tank started leaking after a year (also serial issue) and steam knob starter malfuncionint after couple of months so it leaks from the steam nozzle
I am not impressed with any Lelit product, MaraX has had serious QC issues.
Hi mate. Why would you choose the Gaggia classic pro as opposed to the Rancilio that is better built? Just curious as those are my 2 options after havong a barista express for quite a few years. very aware of the health dangers of aluminium. Thanks in advance.
He covered the Hibrew H10A….But I would love to see a head to head of this machine vs the H10 Plus. Or Lance’s general opinion of H10 Plus.
H10plus is leagues ahead of this. They solved alot of issues with the base models.
I was watching this video and learning more about this machine. I noticed the Gemilai G3007L does not have the screw on the right for pressure control. In your opinion does this really matter? Were you able to actually set it to 9 bar with it? I am still in my return window and am contemplating buying the Turin model. Thanks!
G3007Z has opv. not g3007l
@lance how can you tell if the unit you're buying has brass boiler vs aluminum?
Why is the Apex V2 $100 less on AliExpress than any of the other retailers?
Oh no, what happened to the Geimori in the background?
I’m curious about people’s perspective. I’ve just moved to the US and have had to abandon my gaggia classic at home. I plan to be here for 3-4 years and I’m torn between buying something like this machine, which may die or lose all its value. Or something in a tier or so above and reselling for the equivalent loss. I’m thinking a rocket apartamento, but open to suggestions!
Wendougee Data S on the way soon
Gemilai from taiwan 9yrs ago, they sold under Ferrati Ferro in indonesia cheapest workhorse kickstarter for many local coffeeshop in small town and villages 😂👍
Would you go with a modded Gaggia or this?
kafmasino one is not made in 110v usa version
4:25 no, no, the amount of outgoing water should be equal to the incoming water in the boiler and nothing else
13:27 with my eyes closed I can distinguish between 93℃ and 94 - drinks are radically different on medium espresso roast
17:09 the board is always closed only from direct water flows. when the boiler explodes, you will no longer need any 100% protection from water
You are a good commentator and reviewer!
looks a lot like the profitec go, i never see you talk about that machine, made in germany and less than a 1000$
hey thx for detailed review always a pleasure watching the amount of detail you bring in, can you please share the sellers for UK BS standards cannot find one.
Love to see another review on this learned about it from Aramses channel
did they review version 2?
Good point I can’t remember for the life of me 😅
@conradurch5956 it was the v1. I watched the review before purchasing mine and it seems they solved the preinfusion issue with v2
I don't think so, thanks for this I'm sort of glad I waited
Aramse did V1. Only other V2 review I’ve seen so far is from Asser at Coffee Chronicler.
Worth the extra cash over the HiBrew H10A?