I feel the features should be weighted for the feature scoring to make sense. The absence or presence of a sequencer is a big deal, whereas number of filter types might not make as much of a difference, especially ocnsidering how most synths only have one, and we're used to that. In the end, it's a nice overview of the features and everyone can decide which features they look for in a synth.
Hi, Thanks for watching the video. The idea of weighting the scores is discussed in earlier comments. IMO, with or without causes controversy. As such, I kept it simple. Cheers, TJ
In this day of free DAWs, and other great DAWs like the standalone MPC units, why would you need a sequencer. I own the Motif, yamaha ex5, Triton and MOXF8 and I never use any of those sequencers.... It's an honest question, why are on board sequencers important in today's music workflow?
@@csharp57 On board note sequencers are vey useful for sketching out ideas and for sound design. Motion sequencing is also important for sound design. Once you know how to use them in any given synth, the workflow can be faster than working with DAW. That depends of course of how well it's implemented in terms of UI on that synth. Sequencing is also great for live applications. Thanks for watching, TJ
Scored 0 for AM on the HS but you actual can do AM in a few ways on the HS. Interesting video. Also you noted there is no soft sync in hydrasynth. Yes there is, in fact it’s a super deep controllable soft sync at that.
Hi Flux :) Yes, you are correct. A couple small details missed. Both synths were very new to me at the time the video was made. I’m kinda surprised it had been seen by so many. Thanks for watching. TJ
Both outstanding machines. After hearing both I’m probably looking to get an Argon 8 but only after I recuperate from getting a Pro 3...and that’s not going to happen for a while.
Thanks. Review clear as a slap :-) So far I have been in love with Hydrasynth Explorer. The sound options seemed great to me. But the fact is that it scares me to dive into complicated offers. Yes, there is power in simplicity.
Complexity is only daunting when not presented in simple elegant ways. Hydrasynth is anything but that. Thanks for watching. Please share and subscribe. TJ
Thanks, good comparison. Perhaps you should score always only one point for which has the better implemented feature. I think there is no winner. Both have their strengths and as you say and this is also my opinion Argon8 has the better sound. What matters more?
The feature scoring is primarily to show the difference in complexity between the two synths. Of course, more complicated design isn’t always best for everyone. What matters more to you is what counts. Thanks for watching. Please subscribe. Cheers, TJ
Hey TJ (on the road!), did you notice that Argon has a lot of harsh metallic-sounding frequencies when dialing it in? I wonder if you found a way to overcome those other than post-processing with EQ, better reverb, etc. I know it's a matter of experience but with other synths, for instance with just released fantastic Vital, it's much less of those nasty digital components in the sound.
Generally, I recall A8 as pretty smooth. Some combinations of oscillator waveforms and modulators do generate some very high frequency content. They're very interactive. Choose wisely ;)
Do you think owning both would be redundant? Or are they different enough in their approach and architecture (and sound) that both could be advantageous. My hydra is a beats and now that I’ve tamed it I am getting really warm wonderful sounds that I can meticulously control from the 8 control knobs but I’m wondering if the argon is quicker to design interesting sounds and therefor a different creative process than the Hydra.
Hydrasynth can probably cover about 80% to 90% of what Argon8 can do. They sound somewhat different though. Argon8 has a tame vibe compared to Hydrasynth. I'd think Model Electronics Colbalt8 would be a better complement to Hydrasynth. Can't say I've tried the Colbalt8 though. Thanks for watching. TJ
@@tjontheroad Thanks TJ. Ya, I have the Cobalt8M and it's pretty sweet. I actually like the weird reverb on it. Great for doing classic electronic like Carbon Based Lifeforms but capable of some nice gritty (without being harsh) sound. I think im good - I love my hydra now that ive learned how to get really warm chillout electronica sound with it - I dont really like most of the wavetables - use it mostly for the basic analog-modeled waveforms - just not that big on metallic sounding waves unless used very subtly.
Nice idea, but not really fair in some ways (not even got to part 2 or 3 yet). Model has 3 FX slots yes - BUT it has distortion as a separate locked FX - so 3 1/2 or 4 really. Secondly, Are you really saying a couple of extra Env generators (when the Argon has 3 already) is worth 2 extra points but a fully fledged sequencer with mod lanes is only worth 1 point? I think you need some weighting here.....
Thanks for watching. Both synths have separate distortion other than the FX. So no real difference there. It's not really apples to apples to compare fully functioning EQs in the Hydrasynth to the sequencer lanes in the Argon8 IMO. Both have their respective strengths and weaknesses in practical use. More over, there is no really practical way to "weight" the two without greater debate ;) FWIW, Hydrasynth EQs are much more flexible because they can be routed to any destination. Argon8 EQs are fixed for the filter and the amp. Only the Mod EG can be routed elsewhere. Cheers, TJ
Again thanks for watching. Argon8 is less expensive than the Hydrasynth I agree. I would expect the viewer to judge if the difference in features are worth it to them. Cheers, TJ
Can't say I've ever tried one. They do have a strong following. I have an Iridium. Sort of the modern version of Microwave and more. It's awesome. Cheers, TJ
Really should've done keyboard to keyboard, since the Hydrasynth's ribbon and polyAT are integral to the musical expressiveness...The Hydrasynth Mutants can do linear FM (you had it as a 0).
The video does compare the whole line of offerings from both manufacturers (keyboards and modules). If anybody wants to send me a Hydrasynth keyboard to review, I am right here waiting lol. Thanks for watching. Please subscribe. TJ
Argon8 has 8 quick recall slots via press & hold the Patch button + one of the left side 8 bottom row buttons. Hydrasynth has four banks of Favorites containing eight patches each via the Favorites + Master Control section. Thanks for watching. Please share and subscribe. TJ
Yep. That's one of the things that make it my personal favourite. As far as sound goes I prefer the Cobalt though. Argon is a bit too glassy for my liking. Hydrasynth does come in a keyed version too, though I never personally tried the keyboard version and can't speak for how it feels or plays.
I went with the hydra but i have to say the Argon is the more immediate synth when it comes to getting a good patch going. With the hydra you've got much more work to do but to me it feels like there's much more room to explore and expand. Awesome machines.
Thx for doing this. Argon 8 was always doomed to lose on points, but maybe the scoring was useful in as much as it provided a methodical way for you to describe the 'facts' about the features for each synth. Of course this says nothing about ease of use, playability, etc. These instruments are more than a collection of features... and ultimately you did talk about that. As a wavetable synth newb, I am very swayed by the apparent ease of use of the Argon 8. I hope/think I can live with some limitations in terms of LFOs, EGs and mod slots as long as I can come up with some lovely sounds quickly. So...I am ordering the Argon 8. Oh yeah I will subscribe to your channel.
You got the whole idea of the video meaning in a nutshell. It is more of a feature rundown than the competition theme (just for fun) presentation. Thanks for the sub. Cheers TJ
Hey there, just saw this vid. Considering that you have the hydra, the argon and the minilogue xd which synth would you say sound best in a mix? Heard ur hydra synth demo yesterday and it sounded great on RUclips. I assume it sounds even better without RUclips's player compression. I am looking for a polyphonic synth. It would likely prefer an analog poly with presets (mfb and korg) but the most important criteria is sound quality when mixed with other instruments.
Well, I returned the Argon8 and just sold the Minilogue XD. Both sounded great but had limitations. My Hydrasynth is staying. It has a lot of high end content that will get up and over the mix. It is unapologetically digital. Don't expect it to sound like a Moog One. It doesn't cost as much either ;) Thanks for watching. Please share and subscribe. TJ.
@@tjontheroad thanks for your answer. Liked the video yesterday liked this one too. U got yourself a new sub 😉 did u make ur own presets so far on hydra or are you using inhal and/or ra sun of god?
@@guillaumelustig9537 Thanks. I have the Inhalt pack. Haven't tried the Sun God Ra yet, I like making my own. My Hydrasynth preset pack is demo'd here ruclips.net/video/xBFTJXehpf0/видео.html
Hey guys. One year later, almost 12,000 views and 121 comments. I had no idea this video would take off like it did lol. Thanks so much for watching. TJ
Looking at the comments, it seems like a bunch of Argon8 owners may have been a little upset about this video. TBH though, it seemed almost like you went out of your way to award extra points to the Argon8 even when it was clearly outmatched. Depends on what each person needs though. Argon8 is designed more as a beginner synth, with sort of a training-wheels approach to its functionality. It's hard to make a bad sound, but it also can't do a lot of really interesting stuff. The Hydra, on the other hand, gives the user as much power as possible with virtually no limitations. Almost everything is right at the surface, and the performance macros turn each patch into an entire soundscape. So for me the Hydra is an obvious choice. What I find really odd, though, is when people try to compare either of these to a Wavestate. It seems to happen a lot, even though it's a totally different type of instrument. When people bring it up in that context, it mostly just tells me the person doesn't understand what it is.
Hi, Thanks for watching the video and your comments. Argon8 deserves to get every credit given. It's a fine synth and no need to tip the scale in comparison. I still think, as I said in round 2, Argon8 has a faster to get to sweet spot and really can't sound bad. Hydrasynth has a wider range, but it isn't that novel to tame. It can sound pretty awful if you don't know what you are doing. So as you said, both synths offer their respective levels of design complexity and ease of results. I also reviewed Wavestate on my channel and considered doing a comparison video. Not gonna happen. In agree Wavestate isn't in the same food group as Argon8 or Hydrasynth. OMG, I can't even think of all the comments I'd get trying to put them side-by-side lol. FWIW, the only one of these synths I still have is Hydrasynth. Cheers, TJ
Yeah... a different food group. That's a good way to put it. :) Argon8 is good. It covers a lot of classic territory, it's easy to use, and it sounds good. But it's not very deep... and doesn't really succeed at the knob-per-function design it aims for. Hydra is good too. It's deep in the sense that it's very powerful and flexible, but not in a way that is hard to use. The interface is unusually good, even though the engine is significantly more versatile than most. I'd consider it one of the top synths right now. And then there's Wavestate. Totally different category of device. It has great sounds, unique features, and it's deep AF. However, the interface doesn't make that depth very accessible... so once the user gets bored of the presets, it requires a ton of work to make new sounds. It follows the same pattern as many of Korg's other products... great engine, great sound, easy to get started with. But if the user wants to go past the surface, the depths below are murky and unwelcoming. It's like they're designed for trade show demos, but not for heavy long-term use in a studio. So... after years of trying different synths to see what fits, I've got Hydrasynth at the top of my list. It seems to have its priorities straight, and should be a reliable helper in the studio for a long, long time... easy to use, yet capable of doing almost any sound I could think of. Anyway, don't mind my rambling. I get chatty while procrastinating.
@@ToyKeeper Hey, it's synth geek talk. I live for this stuff :) If you watch the Sonic State review of Wavestate and also watch mine (mine was released beforehand), you'll see the same sorta bewildered expression in Nick's face as you'll see on my face at the end of the videos. That after trying to program Wavestate and wondering WTF was Korg was thinking??? I couldn't get the sound of those buttons out of my head for days lol.
Hi, thanks for watching. I adopted a simple point system for the sake of well...simplicity. if weighted results were implemented, endless debate would have been posted here about their correctness. Now that HS Explorer is out, there's little need to compare prices. Cheers, TJ
@@tjontheroad Thx TJ- I wasn't aware of soft sync! I copied their definition: "There are two types of sync: hard and soft. Hard is where the slave oscillator always resets when the master tells it to, no matter what. Soft is where the slave oscillator only resets when it is close to the end of its own wave, meaning it ignores the sync signal unless the two oscillators are tuned close to some octave interval."
Both synth have received big firmware updates since this video was first released. Argon8 does have the smaller desktop and the Fatar keybed 61 key model.
Your scoring was kinda off. For the LFO section, you say that the hydrasynth has 5, and the Argon8 has 2. But you’re neglecting the modulation lanes in the sequencer, which you only count as a part of the sequencer. Also you don’t count the “hidden oscillators” on the Argon8 which you hear when you tap the spread parameter
It's really a no-brainer for me as the hydrasynth is way cheaper here. Sold my desktop one for $650 and ordered a brand new keyboard version for less than $850. Although, I do love the sound coming out from the argon8 a littler bit more.
@@tjontheroad Yeah... Cuz you know hydrasynth is from a Chinese company and there isn't any distributor for Argon8 here in China. I have to order from thomman or other shops outside China, plus the shipping fee and the high customs duty. So I'd rather get a hydra for a super cheap price although the sound of argon is really amazing.
Not sure I follow you here??? Neither Hydrasynth or Argon8 have wavetables (they are wave scanning synths), FPGA processors (they are DSP) or analog filters (fully digital).
Update... I realized I may have made a small mistake in counting the number of filter types for the Argon8. I originally counted 2 for the LP and HP available via morph. But there also 4 basic types (standard, standard notch, classic, and classic notch). So that means there are 8 total filter types not 2. That also means Argon8 should have a total round 1 score of 50 not 44. Sorry for the error. TJ
I just started your exciting battle of the 2 here, but I just gotta add that you might have miscounted the OSC possibilities of the Hydra. You downgraded the total of 3 OSC to 2.5, since OSC3 doesn't have the full capabilities of OSC 1 and 2. But... OSC1 and 2 are more than a simple OSC. The FM, SYNC, and Wavesyncing Mutants have built-in hidden OSCs (sine, tri, and multi) that on most synths would gobble up another OSC (or more). At the very least, this means OSC1 = 1.5 OSCs OSC2 = 1.5 OSCs OSC3 = a normal 1 OSC, giving us a running total of 4 OSCs at this point! But wait, there's more! Those "hidden" OSC can be accessed by the Ring Mod options (via Mutants). If you're tricky, you can suss 5-op FM out of this arrangement (say what?). Beyond that, Ring Mod can also take in Audio Input from the CV INs. And they don't even have to be from an external source, as you can jumper CV out to CV in! So RM = another 1 OSC (at the very least). Total OSC count Hydrasynth = 5 OSC minimum, up to 6-7 in practice! Carry on!
At the 6 minute mark so far... Both the Hydra and the Argon were a bit short-changed in the real time controller departments. You didn't include the dedicated filter knobs which are present on both models, as well as the additional Macro knobs on the Hyrda. I'm sure there are quite a few controllers on the Argon that qualify as real time controllers as well. I guess we can leave things as they are since you overlooked these equally.
At 8:30 now... Amplitude Modulation is a subset of Ring Modulation. If you set / blend the original (carrier) signal with the RM signals, you get AM. Hydra can totally do this with Wet/Dry. Score: HydraSynth has AM. Need to re-adjust your points to reflect this =)
Ok, made it to the end. Great video. Loved your approach, the cheesy cuts and voice FX, and the total disclaimer that you preferred the HS over the Argon. I agree that the Argon might be more desirable for those looking for an all sweet spot, relatively easy to use WT synth to get on with the business of making music. For those who want all that, and more, allowing the ability for you to grow into your synthesis skillz and possibilities, the HS is the way to go. Thanks for the video TJ, well done!
With that thinking, one could argue each DADSR envelope steps (plus loops) and LFO shapes available should be added up individually (per each envelope and LFO). See... It's complicated ;) Cheers, TJ
Argon8 actually has four oscillators. Since OSC 3 and 4 are a bit limited, they should be counted half a point each. So it's HS 2.5, A8 3. Also Argon8 has four filter types, not two. Let's see if I find more ... And I did. There is not only one OSC MOD in Argon8. There are several, like morphing, spread etc. Modulation sources: The stick can work as four independent modulation sources. Argon8 does have MPE support. Perhaps it did not when the video was made.
This is a unfair comparison. Both are standalone machines. There is no competition in the price range between either synth. You can't buy a Hydra or argon within the price range of either that they have competition for the features and quality they offer. That if you would I can't think of a synthesizer that you could compare to the argon in it's price range.
I agree there's a difference in price. Keep in mind, this video was created at the time when both synths were first released and it is targeted towards differences in features. This so the viewer can decide between the two. Both are awesome at almost any price. Thanks for watching, TJ
@@tjontheroad the most underrated thing about the argon and cobalt X versions are the far right side. I have a Hydra desktop in the empty space. So I get the best of both worlds. When the cobalt drops I will get it and put the deep mind 12 to the right. I can't believe synth makers have not proactively thought of this for desktop modules.
So as you said you are biased towards the Hydra knowing it more or less has double the features, so why even bother with this? The Argon has a far superior quality sound but the Hydra throws in a load more additions. Two differently focused synths. Maybe you should of compared the Korg Wavestate to the Hydra?
Thanks for watching. Why bother? Because I have both synths available to compare and they’re both awesome. Yes, I like the deeper capabilities of Hydrasynth. But, Argon8 is no slouch either. In fact, I think I would have favored Argon8 if it had more modulation matrix slots, LFOs, and EGs. I look forward to what Modal has to offer in the future. As for sound quality goes, I can offer this description. Argon8 is an “inside out” synth. It can get very good sounds from it quickly and it won’t get out of hand. Hydrasynth is an “outside in” synth. It takes bit more effort to get to the best of what is inside and it can easily get out of hand. That is true outcome of my video. I’m expecting to receive a Wavestate and will review it (please subscribe). It’s sound engine is very much more different vs Hydrasynth or Argon8. That is to say, Hydrasynth is much more comparable to Argon8 than it would be to Wavestate. Wavestate would probably do much better against both from what I know so far. Cheers, TJ
tjontheroad Well...it’s always good to debate and agree to disagree. Well they are all wave table synths but all with different capabilities. From an internal perspective Modal use far superior circuitry (not biased just factual) which combined with programming affects the sound generators and overall musicality. I think if Modal had decided to originally go beyond their initial keyboard size they would of added a lot more LFOs etc etc. I know they have now added a 61 key and modular unit to launch shortly so I think they most likely bring out a next upgrade version of the Argon shortly. The Wavestate is very powerful but also is a side by side match for the Argon on sound delivery it is impressive and has some unique features including a powerful sequencer which I enjoyed using. I think you will really enjoy the Wavestate very much!
@@leetronix Yes, it's fun to geek out and debate this stuff :) The use and aspects of wave scanning (Hydrasynth & Argon8) and wave sequencing (Wavestate) do differ. Wave sequencing can do the same as wave scanning. Wave scanning alone can not do the same as wave sequencing. That where Wavestate has the advantage in it's sound engine. I'm looking forward to it. Cheers, TJ
LeeTronix “The Argon has a far superior quality sound” Ummm, that’s just your opinion my dude. I for one think the Hydra sounds better, on top of the greater features.
@@blib3786 i agree. brought back the argon to the shop and have 2 hydrasynths now and keeping those! For the price the argon was good but for my ears there is clearly something wrong in the filter! section!
synth surface design: modal, controls on hardware: modal, pc software: modal, sound quality: need time to play with, can't trust videos and factory presets, we can make better, price: modal, so modal win, and asm is just ok though it's Chinese design, from my point asm has a idea like a vintage synth packed with wavetable in these time? if I would buy a wavetable hardware synth, I choose waldorf, digital is digital, unlimited.
Thanks for watching the video. I can only agree with somethings you mentioned. Regarding "synth surface design" and "controls on hardware", Hydrasynth is much more intuitive to use the panel and includes 8 macro controls. The Modal App is a very good paring with Argon8. As I said in the video, I do give an edge in the sound quality to Argon8. I've extensively spent time program both synths. Waldorf is a complete other class. That's for another series video I've done :) Cheers, TJ
Bad review. From the poiint you Scored the ASM 11 for 11 different filer types you massively messed the results lost of slightly different filter types its nowhere near as important as oscs, lfos, envelopes etc. Then you give the argon 8 1 point for a 512 step 4 lane sequencer, I literally said out loud "ARE YOU SERIOUS??" stopped watching there and then.
Maybe it's just me, bt I'm a little nervous about buying a Chinese synthesizer. I am not sure about the build quality, future support and security of the device. In the abstract, it's more powerful than the Argon, but it seems a little risky to me.
I’m sorry, but this makes no sense IMO. Hydrasynth has already received several major updates and is a very good quality build. Worried about security? Really? I don’t think anyone is out to steal your patches, music or grab you data via their software. The synth market is tiny. So much so, no hacker would waste their time.
@@tjontheroad Ok, that's encouraging. But I wouldn't buy a Chinese car, and I still don't trust Chinese companies, most of whom are government controlled. Ok, maybe I'm being prejudiced and paranoid, but if I can avoid dealing with the Chinese, than I prefer to do so. Also, are you really sure what the Chinese software that you are running is doing? Sure, the Chinese don't care about your patches, but the software might be collecting browser history, financial data or who knows what while it's running. I'm not saying that it is. But the fact that it's a possibility should give you pause.
@@LukezyM Trust me, I am. But it's all part of one problem, which is China trying to impose their will everywhere. Buying into the Chinese economy and companies only makes that worse.
Not even sure why you wasted your time making this video. The comparison is as relevant as a knackered Mk. 2 Ford Escort to a formula 1 car. Price sings a good song.
I totally agree about the sound part. Check out my other demos on these synths for that. This isn't a demo per say. It's a comparison of features and capabilities. FWIW, I think they both sound great. Cheers, TJ
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Something about this reminded me of 80s public access television. I think that's why I watched the whole thing. Thanks!
Yep, you can't get that kind of entertainment anymore lol. Thanks for watching. TJ
That's how you know you're experiencing premium content.
I feel the features should be weighted for the feature scoring to make sense. The absence or presence of a sequencer is a big deal, whereas number of filter types might not make as much of a difference, especially ocnsidering how most synths only have one, and we're used to that. In the end, it's a nice overview of the features and everyone can decide which features they look for in a synth.
Hi,
Thanks for watching the video. The idea of weighting the scores is discussed in earlier comments. IMO, with or without causes controversy. As such, I kept it simple.
Cheers, TJ
@@tjontheroad That seems fair enough. Both very interesting synths either way, and it's nice to see a comparison of them.
In this day of free DAWs, and other great DAWs like the standalone MPC units, why would you need a sequencer. I own the Motif, yamaha ex5, Triton and MOXF8 and I never use any of those sequencers.... It's an honest question, why are on board sequencers important in today's music workflow?
@@csharp57 On board note sequencers are vey useful for sketching out ideas and for sound design. Motion sequencing is also important for sound design. Once you know how to use them in any given synth, the workflow can be faster than working with DAW. That depends of course of how well it's implemented in terms of UI on that synth. Sequencing is also great for live applications.
Thanks for watching, TJ
@@csharp57 many people hate laptops that's why.
Thank you for making this :)
Thanks for watching. Cheers TJ
Scored 0 for AM on the HS but you actual can do AM in a few ways on the HS.
Interesting video. Also you noted there is no soft sync in hydrasynth. Yes there is, in fact it’s a super deep controllable soft sync at that.
Hi Flux :) Yes, you are correct. A couple small details missed. Both synths were very new to me at the time the video was made. I’m kinda surprised it had been seen by so many. Thanks for watching. TJ
No sequencer for the hydrasinth ? the lfos have this function and it works great !
Yes, step LFOs were added after this video was released. Still not technically a sequencer. But, can function that way.
Thanks for watching. TJ
thinking of going the hydrasynth route to use with my roli with block lol
Thanks for making this, super helpful and well done! Looking forward to more.
Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for watching and the sub. Cheers, TJ
Both outstanding machines. After hearing both I’m probably looking to get an Argon 8 but only after I recuperate from getting a Pro 3...and that’s not going to happen for a while.
I might need to get my hands on a Pro 3 soon. Thanks for watching. Please subscribe. Cheers, TJ
Cool channel, insightful and funny presentation.
Thanks for watching. Cheers TJ
Thanks.
Review clear as a slap :-) So far I have been in love with Hydrasynth Explorer. The sound options seemed great to me. But the fact is that it scares me to dive into complicated offers. Yes, there is power in simplicity.
Complexity is only daunting when not presented in simple elegant ways. Hydrasynth is anything but that.
Thanks for watching. Please share and subscribe. TJ
Thanks, good comparison. Perhaps you should score always only one point for which has the better implemented feature. I think there is no winner. Both have their strengths and as you say and this is also my opinion Argon8 has the better sound. What matters more?
The feature scoring is primarily to show the difference in complexity between the two synths. Of course, more complicated design isn’t always best for everyone. What matters more to you is what counts. Thanks for watching. Please subscribe. Cheers, TJ
Hey TJ (on the road!), did you notice that Argon has a lot of harsh metallic-sounding frequencies when dialing it in? I wonder if you found a way to overcome those other than post-processing with EQ, better reverb, etc. I know it's a matter of experience but with other synths, for instance with just released fantastic Vital, it's much less of those nasty digital components in the sound.
Generally, I recall A8 as pretty smooth. Some combinations of oscillator waveforms and modulators do generate some very high frequency content. They're very interactive. Choose wisely ;)
For me the Argon8 or 8M seems like the winner
Great review! You earned a new sub with this one!
Thanks :)
I love this video! So creative and fun :)
Thanks for watching. Cheers, TJ
Thanks for doing this comparison, well done! To be fair Argon8 should have gotten +512 points for it's 512 step sequencer! :)
Yeah but I can't count that high ;). Thanks for watching. Please subscribe. TJ
@@tjontheroad and 4 more for each mod lane on the sequencer.
Thank you!
Thanks for watching. TJ
what about a argon8 vs cobalt8?
I'm still waiting for Modal to send them both over...
Thanks for watching. Cheers, TJ
Do you think owning both would be redundant? Or are they different enough in their approach and architecture (and sound) that both could be advantageous. My hydra is a beats and now that I’ve tamed it I am getting really warm wonderful sounds that I can meticulously control from the 8 control knobs but I’m wondering if the argon is quicker to design interesting sounds and therefor a different creative process than the Hydra.
Hydrasynth can probably cover about 80% to 90% of what Argon8 can do. They sound somewhat different though. Argon8 has a tame vibe compared to Hydrasynth. I'd think Model Electronics Colbalt8 would be a better complement to Hydrasynth. Can't say I've tried the Colbalt8 though.
Thanks for watching. TJ
@@tjontheroad Thanks TJ. Ya, I have the Cobalt8M and it's pretty sweet. I actually like the weird reverb on it. Great for doing classic electronic like Carbon Based Lifeforms but capable of some nice gritty (without being harsh) sound. I think im good - I love my hydra now that ive learned how to get really warm chillout electronica sound with it - I dont really like most of the wavetables - use it mostly for the basic analog-modeled waveforms - just not that big on metallic sounding waves unless used very subtly.
What I would love to know is do they compliment each other? As in, would it be good to have both?
I'd say they more alike than different. That's not always a good thing if you want some variety of sounds in your studio.
Thanks for watching, TJ
No, something to contrast would be better. Thanks.
Nice idea, but not really fair in some ways (not even got to part 2 or 3 yet). Model has 3 FX slots yes - BUT it has distortion as a separate locked FX - so 3 1/2 or 4 really. Secondly, Are you really saying a couple of extra Env generators (when the Argon has 3 already) is worth 2 extra points but a fully fledged sequencer with mod lanes is only worth 1 point? I think you need some weighting here.....
Thanks for watching. Both synths have separate distortion other than the FX. So no real difference there. It's not really apples to apples to compare fully functioning EQs in the Hydrasynth to the sequencer lanes in the Argon8 IMO. Both have their respective strengths and weaknesses in practical use. More over, there is no really practical way to "weight" the two without greater debate ;) FWIW, Hydrasynth EQs are much more flexible because they can be routed to any destination. Argon8 EQs are fixed for the filter and the amp. Only the Mod EG can be routed elsewhere.
Cheers, TJ
Oh - and what about price? Should the Argon get 250 extra points foe being 250 cheaper?
Again thanks for watching. Argon8 is less expensive than the Hydrasynth I agree. I would expect the viewer to judge if the difference in features are worth it to them. Cheers, TJ
so just like the number of LFOs and everything else, smh..
It's cool to see the Argon8 getting compared so often to a synth that's nearly twice its price.
It's inevitable ;) Thanks for watching. Please subscribe. Cheers, TJ
How's an old Waldorf microwave. Pretty good?
Can't say I've ever tried one. They do have a strong following. I have an Iridium. Sort of the modern version of Microwave and more. It's awesome. Cheers, TJ
Good, and entertaining, review. I chose the Argon8 because I suspected it was quicker to dial in a sound on. And it is really simple to use
Very nice Video..I really enjoyed watching this...Thanks for sharing
Thanks for watching. cheers, TJ
Really should've done keyboard to keyboard, since the Hydrasynth's ribbon and polyAT are integral to the musical expressiveness...The Hydrasynth Mutants can do linear FM (you had it as a 0).
The video does compare the whole line of offerings from both manufacturers (keyboards and modules). If anybody wants to send me a Hydrasynth keyboard to review, I am right here waiting lol. Thanks for watching. Please subscribe. TJ
Also I double checked and I did score 1 to Hydrasynth for the FM mod at 8:10.
@@tjontheroad I messed up sorry - I swear I was listening and thought you said no FM on the Hydrasynth.
How do they handle live? Do they have an easy favourite assign button?
Argon8 has 8 quick recall slots via press & hold the Patch button + one of the left side 8 bottom row buttons. Hydrasynth has four banks of Favorites containing eight patches each via the Favorites + Master Control section. Thanks for watching. Please share and subscribe. TJ
I give 100 more points for hydrasynth! 'cause the polyfonic aftertouch, actually there is not other new synth around with that feature.
Hopefully we'll see more polyphonic aftertouch keys beds soon. Thank for watching, TJ
@@tjontheroad I take a look on express e osmose, but it isn't on the market, but it will be, maybe this year
@@lorybari Yes, I've been waiting on my Osmose pre-order since November 2019. Not too long from now maybe. Cheers, TJ
Yep. That's one of the things that make it my personal favourite. As far as sound goes I prefer the Cobalt though. Argon is a bit too glassy for my liking. Hydrasynth does come in a keyed version too, though I never personally tried the keyboard version and can't speak for how it feels or plays.
I went with the hydra but i have to say the Argon is the more immediate synth when it comes to getting a good patch going. With the hydra you've got much more work to do but to me it feels like there's much more room to explore and expand. Awesome machines.
You pretty much are saying the same as I. HS is deeper than A8. There's much reward for getting deep with it. A8 is more immediate.
The [boxing] intro sounds way better than both synths together :-)) LOL
All the music in the video was created using Hydrasynth and Argon8. The boxing intro at 00:26 is Hydrasynth.
Thanks for watching, TJ
Thx for doing this. Argon 8 was always doomed to lose on points, but maybe the scoring was useful in as much as it provided a methodical way for you to describe the 'facts' about the features for each synth. Of course this says nothing about ease of use, playability, etc. These instruments are more than a collection of features... and ultimately you did talk about that. As a wavetable synth newb, I am very swayed by the apparent ease of use of the Argon 8. I hope/think I can live with some limitations in terms of LFOs, EGs and mod slots as long as I can come up with some lovely sounds quickly. So...I am ordering the Argon 8. Oh yeah I will subscribe to your channel.
You got the whole idea of the video meaning in a nutshell. It is more of a feature rundown than the competition theme (just for fun) presentation.
Thanks for the sub. Cheers TJ
ASM is throwing in features as a loss leader to gain traction. Their offering is cool now but corporate will change that good to bad.
Top bro, tnx
Thanks for watching. TJ
For its price range and what it offers modal kills it
Thanks for watching, TJ
Looking forward to those arpeggitators.
Hey there, just saw this vid.
Considering that you have the hydra, the argon and the minilogue xd which synth would you say sound best in a mix?
Heard ur hydra synth demo yesterday and it sounded great on RUclips. I assume it sounds even better without RUclips's player compression.
I am looking for a polyphonic synth. It would likely prefer an analog poly with presets (mfb and korg) but the most important criteria is sound quality when mixed with other instruments.
Well, I returned the Argon8 and just sold the Minilogue XD. Both sounded great but had limitations. My Hydrasynth is staying. It has a lot of high end content that will get up and over the mix. It is unapologetically digital. Don't expect it to sound like a Moog One. It doesn't cost as much either ;)
Thanks for watching. Please share and subscribe. TJ.
@@tjontheroad thanks for your answer. Liked the video yesterday liked this one too. U got yourself a new sub 😉 did u make ur own presets so far on hydra or are you using inhal and/or ra sun of god?
@@guillaumelustig9537 Thanks. I have the Inhalt pack. Haven't tried the Sun God Ra yet, I like making my own. My Hydrasynth preset pack is demo'd here ruclips.net/video/xBFTJXehpf0/видео.html
Hey guys. One year later, almost 12,000 views and 121 comments. I had no idea this video would take off like it did lol. Thanks so much for watching. TJ
How many presets does the argon 8 and the hydra synth have?
From the factory, the are 300 in Argon8 and 384 in Hydrasynth
Interesting but sound is what counts in the end
I agree. Thanks for watching. TJ
I agree. Thanks for watching. Cheers TJ
Looking at the comments, it seems like a bunch of Argon8 owners may have been a little upset about this video. TBH though, it seemed almost like you went out of your way to award extra points to the Argon8 even when it was clearly outmatched.
Depends on what each person needs though. Argon8 is designed more as a beginner synth, with sort of a training-wheels approach to its functionality. It's hard to make a bad sound, but it also can't do a lot of really interesting stuff. The Hydra, on the other hand, gives the user as much power as possible with virtually no limitations. Almost everything is right at the surface, and the performance macros turn each patch into an entire soundscape. So for me the Hydra is an obvious choice.
What I find really odd, though, is when people try to compare either of these to a Wavestate. It seems to happen a lot, even though it's a totally different type of instrument. When people bring it up in that context, it mostly just tells me the person doesn't understand what it is.
Hi, Thanks for watching the video and your comments. Argon8 deserves to get every credit given. It's a fine synth and no need to tip the scale in comparison. I still think, as I said in round 2, Argon8 has a faster to get to sweet spot and really can't sound bad. Hydrasynth has a wider range, but it isn't that novel to tame. It can sound pretty awful if you don't know what you are doing. So as you said, both synths offer their respective levels of design complexity and ease of results.
I also reviewed Wavestate on my channel and considered doing a comparison video. Not gonna happen. In agree Wavestate isn't in the same food group as Argon8 or Hydrasynth. OMG, I can't even think of all the comments I'd get trying to put them side-by-side lol. FWIW, the only one of these synths I still have is Hydrasynth.
Cheers,
TJ
Yeah... a different food group. That's a good way to put it. :)
Argon8 is good. It covers a lot of classic territory, it's easy to use, and it sounds good. But it's not very deep... and doesn't really succeed at the knob-per-function design it aims for.
Hydra is good too. It's deep in the sense that it's very powerful and flexible, but not in a way that is hard to use. The interface is unusually good, even though the engine is significantly more versatile than most. I'd consider it one of the top synths right now.
And then there's Wavestate. Totally different category of device. It has great sounds, unique features, and it's deep AF. However, the interface doesn't make that depth very accessible... so once the user gets bored of the presets, it requires a ton of work to make new sounds.
It follows the same pattern as many of Korg's other products... great engine, great sound, easy to get started with. But if the user wants to go past the surface, the depths below are murky and unwelcoming. It's like they're designed for trade show demos, but not for heavy long-term use in a studio.
So... after years of trying different synths to see what fits, I've got Hydrasynth at the top of my list. It seems to have its priorities straight, and should be a reliable helper in the studio for a long, long time... easy to use, yet capable of doing almost any sound I could think of.
Anyway, don't mind my rambling. I get chatty while procrastinating.
@@ToyKeeper Hey, it's synth geek talk. I live for this stuff :) If you watch the Sonic State review of Wavestate and also watch mine (mine was released beforehand), you'll see the same sorta bewildered expression in Nick's face as you'll see on my face at the end of the videos. That after trying to program Wavestate and wondering WTF was Korg was thinking??? I couldn't get the sound of those buttons out of my head for days lol.
You forgot {?} to offset the results by the significant different in price.
Hi, thanks for watching. I adopted a simple point system for the sake of well...simplicity. if weighted results were implemented, endless debate would have been posted here about their correctness. Now that HS Explorer is out, there's little need to compare prices.
Cheers, TJ
what is soft sync?
There is hard and soft sync. Here's a good explanation of the two learningmodular.com/glossary/sync/
@@tjontheroad Thx TJ- I wasn't aware of soft sync! I copied their definition:
"There are two types of sync: hard and soft. Hard is where the slave oscillator always resets when the master tells it to, no matter what. Soft is where the slave oscillator only resets when it is close to the end of its own wave, meaning it ignores the sync signal unless the two oscillators are tuned close to some octave interval."
@@chriskelvin248 that's it :)
Of course, the Hydrasynth now has more options than the Argon with the Explorer and the Deluxe 😅
Both synth have received big firmware updates since this video was first released. Argon8 does have the smaller desktop and the Fatar keybed 61 key model.
This pure RUclips. Stuff is too polished these days.
Funny, nobody has ever accused me of being too polished before lol. I'm pretty rough around the edges most days.
Thanks for watching. TJ
Your scoring was kinda off. For the LFO section, you say that the hydrasynth has 5, and the Argon8 has 2. But you’re neglecting the modulation lanes in the sequencer, which you only count as a part of the sequencer. Also you don’t count the “hidden oscillators” on the Argon8 which you hear when you tap the spread parameter
Thanks for watching. Those points have been discussed in the comments below. Cheers, TJ
It's really a no-brainer for me as the hydrasynth is way cheaper here. Sold my desktop one for $650 and ordered a brand new keyboard version for less than $850. Although, I do love the sound coming out from the argon8 a littler bit more.
Hydrasynth is less expensive that Argon8 where you live? Very good. Thanks for watching, TJ
@@tjontheroad Yeah... Cuz you know hydrasynth is from a Chinese company and there isn't any distributor for Argon8 here in China. I have to order from thomman or other shops outside China, plus the shipping fee and the high customs duty. So I'd rather get a hydra for a super cheap price although the sound of argon is really amazing.
"software in the box" - well, wavetables based on FPGA with analog filters could be the innovation
Not sure I follow you here??? Neither Hydrasynth or Argon8 have wavetables (they are wave scanning synths), FPGA processors (they are DSP) or analog filters (fully digital).
could the Iridium win against those two?
Iridium is in a whole other class in terms of features and price.
Thanks for watching, Cheers TJ
8:35 and I am screaming for the Argon 8 as it finally scores
With the updated firmware, A8 has scored a few new points too. Thanks for watching. TJ
Update... I realized I may have made a small mistake in counting the number of filter types for the Argon8. I originally counted 2 for the LP and HP available via morph. But there also 4 basic types (standard, standard notch, classic, and classic notch). So that means there are 8 total filter types not 2. That also means Argon8 should have a total round 1 score of 50 not 44. Sorry for the error. TJ
I just started your exciting battle of the 2 here, but I just gotta add that you might have miscounted the OSC possibilities of the Hydra. You downgraded the total of 3 OSC to 2.5, since OSC3 doesn't have the full capabilities of OSC 1 and 2.
But... OSC1 and 2 are more than a simple OSC. The FM, SYNC, and Wavesyncing Mutants have built-in hidden OSCs (sine, tri, and multi) that on most synths would gobble up another OSC (or more). At the very least, this means
OSC1 = 1.5 OSCs
OSC2 = 1.5 OSCs
OSC3 = a normal 1 OSC,
giving us a running total of 4 OSCs at this point!
But wait, there's more! Those "hidden" OSC can be accessed by the Ring Mod options (via Mutants). If you're tricky, you can suss 5-op FM out of this arrangement (say what?). Beyond that, Ring Mod can also take in Audio Input from the CV INs. And they don't even have to be from an external source, as you can jumper CV out to CV in!
So RM = another 1 OSC (at the very least).
Total OSC count Hydrasynth = 5 OSC minimum, up to 6-7 in practice! Carry on!
At the 6 minute mark so far...
Both the Hydra and the Argon were a bit short-changed in the real time controller departments. You didn't include the dedicated filter knobs which are present on both models, as well as the additional Macro knobs on the Hyrda.
I'm sure there are quite a few controllers on the Argon that qualify as real time controllers as well.
I guess we can leave things as they are since you overlooked these equally.
At 8:30 now...
Amplitude Modulation is a subset of Ring Modulation. If you set / blend the original (carrier) signal with the RM signals, you get AM. Hydra can totally do this with Wet/Dry.
Score: HydraSynth has AM.
Need to re-adjust your points to reflect this =)
Ok, made it to the end.
Great video. Loved your approach, the cheesy cuts and voice FX, and the total disclaimer that you preferred the HS over the Argon.
I agree that the Argon might be more desirable for those looking for an all sweet spot, relatively easy to use WT synth to get on with the business of making music.
For those who want all that, and more, allowing the ability for you to grow into your synthesis skillz and possibilities, the HS is the way to go.
Thanks for the video TJ, well done!
I’m glad someone is paying attention lol. Everything you said is true. But, for a/b comparison purposes, a simpler point of view approach was used.
more like 0:512 because thats how many steps the Argon sequencer has :D
With that thinking, one could argue each DADSR envelope steps (plus loops) and LFO shapes available should be added up individually (per each envelope and LFO). See... It's complicated ;) Cheers, TJ
Argon8 actually has four oscillators. Since OSC 3 and 4 are a bit limited, they should be counted half a point each. So it's HS 2.5, A8 3.
Also Argon8 has four filter types, not two.
Let's see if I find more ...
And I did.
There is not only one OSC MOD in Argon8. There are several, like morphing, spread etc.
Modulation sources: The stick can work as four independent modulation sources.
Argon8 does have MPE support. Perhaps it did not when the video was made.
Hi Ted, Thanks for watching the video. These topics are discussed in prior comments. Cheers, TJ
This is a unfair comparison. Both are standalone machines. There is no competition in the price range between either synth. You can't buy a Hydra or argon within the price range of either that they have competition for the features and quality they offer. That if you would I can't think of a synthesizer that you could compare to the argon in it's price range.
I agree there's a difference in price. Keep in mind, this video was created at the time when both synths were first released and it is targeted towards differences in features. This so the viewer can decide between the two. Both are awesome at almost any price.
Thanks for watching, TJ
@@tjontheroad the most underrated thing about the argon and cobalt X versions are the far right side. I have a Hydra desktop in the empty space. So I get the best of both worlds. When the cobalt drops I will get it and put the deep mind 12 to the right. I can't believe synth makers have not proactively thought of this for desktop modules.
I assume you mean the right side of the 61 key versions? That space is handy and Fatar keyed is terrific.
@@tjontheroad I am about to get multiple squids to control various equipment. The squid will go nicely in that spot.
@@joebrewer4529 The new Korg SQ-64 would be a nice fit there too. Enjoy.
So as you said you are biased towards the Hydra knowing it more or less has double the features, so why even bother with this? The Argon has a far superior quality sound but the Hydra throws in a load more additions. Two differently focused synths. Maybe you should of compared the Korg Wavestate to the Hydra?
Thanks for watching. Why bother? Because I have both synths available to compare and they’re both awesome. Yes, I like the deeper capabilities of Hydrasynth. But, Argon8 is no slouch either. In fact, I think I would have favored Argon8 if it had more modulation matrix slots, LFOs, and EGs. I look forward to what Modal has to offer in the future. As for sound quality goes, I can offer this description. Argon8 is an “inside out” synth. It can get very good sounds from it quickly and it won’t get out of hand. Hydrasynth is an “outside in” synth. It takes bit more effort to get to the best of what is inside and it can easily get out of hand. That is true outcome of my video.
I’m expecting to receive a Wavestate and will review it (please subscribe). It’s sound engine is very much more different vs Hydrasynth or Argon8. That is to say, Hydrasynth is much more comparable to Argon8 than it would be to Wavestate. Wavestate would probably do much better against both from what I know so far.
Cheers, TJ
tjontheroad Well...it’s always good to debate and agree to disagree. Well they are all wave table synths but all with different capabilities. From an internal perspective Modal use far superior circuitry (not biased just factual) which combined with programming affects the sound generators and overall musicality. I think if Modal had decided to originally go beyond their initial keyboard size they would of added a lot more LFOs etc etc. I know they have now added a 61 key and modular unit to launch shortly so I think they most likely bring out a next upgrade version of the Argon shortly.
The Wavestate is very powerful but also is a side by side match for the Argon on sound delivery it is impressive and has some unique features including a powerful sequencer which I enjoyed using. I think you will really enjoy the Wavestate very much!
@@leetronix Yes, it's fun to geek out and debate this stuff :) The use and aspects of wave scanning (Hydrasynth & Argon8) and wave sequencing (Wavestate) do differ. Wave sequencing can do the same as wave scanning. Wave scanning alone can not do the same as wave sequencing. That where Wavestate has the advantage in it's sound engine. I'm looking forward to it.
Cheers,
TJ
LeeTronix “The Argon has a far superior quality sound” Ummm, that’s just your opinion my dude. I for one think the Hydra sounds better, on top of the greater features.
@@blib3786 i agree. brought back the argon to the shop and have 2 hydrasynths now and keeping those!
For the price the argon was good but for my ears there is clearly something wrong in the filter! section!
nice ending music!! great video :D
Thanks for watching the whole video and kind words. TJ
Korg laughing somewhere hidden:p
...Wavestate
.........some of the pronunciations are a cringe...but the vid is really informative.
Thanks for watching. Please subscribe so I can pay my speech therapist ;)
synth surface design: modal,
controls on hardware: modal,
pc software: modal,
sound quality: need time to play with, can't trust videos and factory presets, we can make better,
price: modal,
so modal win, and asm is just ok though it's Chinese design, from my point asm has a idea like a vintage synth packed with wavetable in these time? if I would buy a wavetable hardware synth, I choose waldorf, digital is digital, unlimited.
Thanks for watching the video. I can only agree with somethings you mentioned. Regarding "synth surface design" and "controls on hardware", Hydrasynth is much more intuitive to use the panel and includes 8 macro controls. The Modal App is a very good paring with Argon8. As I said in the video, I do give an edge in the sound quality to Argon8. I've extensively spent time program both synths.
Waldorf is a complete other class. That's for another series video I've done :) Cheers, TJ
Bad review. From the poiint you Scored the ASM 11 for 11 different filer types you massively messed the results lost of slightly different filter types its nowhere near as important as oscs, lfos, envelopes etc. Then you give the argon 8 1 point for a 512 step 4 lane sequencer, I literally said out loud "ARE YOU SERIOUS??" stopped watching there and then.
Thanks for watching as much as you did :) please look at my prior comments posted already regarding your concerns.
Best regards, TJ
Hydrasynth has amp mod.
Maybe it's just me, bt I'm a little nervous about buying a Chinese synthesizer. I am not sure about the build quality, future support and security of the device. In the abstract, it's more powerful than the Argon, but it seems a little risky to me.
I’m sorry, but this makes no sense IMO. Hydrasynth has already received several major updates and is a very good quality build. Worried about security? Really? I don’t think anyone is out to steal your patches, music or grab you data via their software. The synth market is tiny. So much so, no hacker would waste their time.
@@tjontheroad Ok, that's encouraging. But I wouldn't buy a Chinese car, and I still don't trust Chinese companies, most of whom are government controlled. Ok, maybe I'm being prejudiced and paranoid, but if I can avoid dealing with the Chinese, than I prefer to do so.
Also, are you really sure what the Chinese software that you are running is doing? Sure, the Chinese don't care about your patches, but the software might be collecting browser history, financial data or who knows what while it's running. I'm not saying that it is. But the fact that it's a possibility should give you pause.
@@geoffk777 You should be more worried about what’s Google and Facebook doing behind your back.
@@LukezyM Trust me, I am. But it's all part of one problem, which is China trying to impose their will everywhere. Buying into the Chinese economy and companies only makes that worse.
@@geoffk777 it's a fucking synthesizer get a grip
after i watched this i felt like i recieved a lobotomy.
Thanks for watching anyway :) TJ
Not even sure why you wasted your time making this video. The comparison is as relevant as a knackered Mk. 2 Ford Escort to a formula 1 car. Price sings a good song.
Escort vs Formula 1? Maybe another time ;) Thanks for watching. TJ
There is so much bias in this comparison. The result is clear before you even get 2 minutes in..
Thanks for watching. I said I did like the one over the other. No secret there. That didn't change the scoring results.
Cheers, TJ
haha funny intro =D
Thanks for watching. Please subscribe. TJ
Really?
There is something called „““““Sound“““““
Worst demo ever
I totally agree about the sound part. Check out my other demos on these synths for that. This isn't a demo per say. It's a comparison of features and capabilities. FWIW, I think they both sound great. Cheers, TJ
Hydrasynth costs twice as much as the Argon 8
Not a fair comparison
It's a comparison not a petition for equal rights ;)
Thanks for watching. TJ
For god sake, use your ears. !
Always a good suggestion. Thanks for watching. Cheers, TJ
The problem is the “sound” of the Hydra…it is soooo bad!
With respect, I disagree. Thanks for watching, TJ