One of the best mtb reviewers in my opinion. Just compare this to the pb review - only after watching this video I think I understand this bike and know it’s not my cup of tea.
Love the review (and your others too). The level of nuance is fantastic. Most other reviews focus mainly on spec sheet details/things you can already read from an ad. Yours have a much more comprehensive lived in experience/tinkering/longevity etc. Kudos!
Honestly, this is the most succinct and concise description of how that genie works that I've seen (including all of the giant mob channels like pink bike...Thank ya kindly!
Even back to the 2017-2019 Specialized Enduro. Almost feels like a "flat tire" compared to most other suspension platforms when doing immediate back-to-back testing.
This is super thorough. It sounds like the suspension is more newbie friendly and less expert friendly. Maybe they need to revisit the 4 bar thing instead of working so hard to get around it? For longer chainstays, it seems to make slow to medium speed riding a lot less fun. But I know people elsewhere go a lot faster.
Great review. Specialized does offer the bike with a coil shock on certain builds. I wonder if that would have been a better compromised between performance and comfort.
I do ride a old transition smuggler, with a similar geo. And I am your height and to me it was exactly the same. I put on a 50mm stem and after that it just worked way better.
Have you tried a deviate? If you could get your hands on one I'd love to see a comparison between the highlander II and the druid v2. I was between both those bikes and chose the highlander but I'm interested to see how they would've compared
When riding the Stumpjumper Evo (the previous Stumpy model) how do you compare it to this one when it comes to the rear shock? Did you use spacers on the previous model, and did that work better than this one on familiar trails that you're pushing the bike to it's limits? Thanks...
Hi Mate great review, and good to see some one thrash the bike. I used to ride the Stumpjumpers, but in recent years loved my enduro for all its forgiveness. My question is, If this shock is designed for this frame, what would the Ohlins coil feel like? Do you think it would ride better in " aggressive mode" Thanks.
@alextroche9453 it kinda depends. I ran my bike with a shorter 445 mm chainstays before and the philosophy of a modern 1300 mm wheelbase bike with a short chainstays just doesn't work imo. The bike felt sketchy and not fun at all. I think if you want a true jibb bike you need short chainstays AND generally a shorter bike
Got to ride Stumpy 15 a few times and I agree with pretty much everything you're saying! I think the hang up with companies still making bikes with short chainstays is the fact that the vast majority of mountain bikers are just fundamentally bad. It seems that crowd is hyped on short rear ends because they don't have much technique. The short rear end helps them skid around and lift the front end. I hear a lot of hate around the shop about the added complexity of flip chips, headset cups, etc, but I feel like adding a 10mm axle flip chip on a bike like this would be so sweet. Choose between 435/445mm, sure it's a bit more complexity with brake adapters and all that jazz but it's a place you can actually make big changes to the character of the bike.
Essentially what I’m hearing the suspension behaviour is close to progressive leverage ratio (around 30%), quite a bit of SAG (35%), fast low speed rebound. This also eats all the small bumps all day long because start of the travel is quite soft, but then it rumps up fast. on mid level consecutive hits such setup gets overwhelmed., you get quickly though early+mid stroke and hitting this ramp up “wall”.
I think the problem with increasing chainstay lengths on trail bikes comes down to beginner and intermediate riders. That group tends to run slower speeds and longer chainstays can make the bike tough to handle on plain singletrack. What needs to happen is just adjustable chainstays at the least.
So I had a 2014 Transition Scout, that bike had a Rock Shox RCT3 shock with a Debonair can. So Rock Shox were basically doing this same thing 10 years ago.
Considering your strong opinions on chainstays, I'd love to hear what you think about the new Norco Optic and Sight. Ultra short chainstays but with the rearward axle path of the high pivot. I already own the previous generation of Optic, and I'm extremely tempted by the price on the 2025 Optic alloy frameset.
As someone who basically hates "modern" mountain bikes, I demo'd this thing in the carbon ohlins sorta 'park' build cuz extra 10mm up front and accidentally fell in love with it. And this was after demoing that Status 140 and feeling like I couldn't get along with it. A bike I WANTED to like a bit more but it felt imbalanced and awkward and I wasn't sure how I would remedy that, if a high rise bar would help or hurt, etc. But I got on that Stumpy and just starting singin on the thing. I am a like low-mid speed rider focused on jumps and jibbin and all that (hence modern bike hate) and for modern bikes I basically ride one size down because the bikes for 6 foot are just too long for me, especially if chainstays are tiered by size. But yeah the short stays on this bike somehow just balanced it out amazingly for maybe what you would call 'average' trail riding as you were mentioning with the entire design feel of suspension characteristics. I am wondering what Stumpy is thinking for fast people doing serious riding. Is the enduro gonna continue on for the heavy hitters (with that new suspension layout that was patented or whatever)... Or are the stumpy evo lovers gonna be stuck with this base Stumpy and puzzling out adjustments to keep it balanced at speed on serious terrain. I'm also really confused because unless it was like an entire spring rate "up" the bike felt great on coil despite the linkage inherently running linear to 'match' the genie shock. And then on the budget end I wonder how it rides with non-genie shocks like that base Xfusion build... I guess only a beginner would buy that so they wouldn't even care? Not sure.
Happened to see a weird video on instagram and got scared for the first time in years. Actually scared like kids do. Watching this video soothed it out, strange ass comment I know lol but ty fam
im unsure how I feel about chainstay lengths, I ride quite aggressively over the front of the bike and often find long chainstays make the bike lazy in the rear, like im always waiting on the rear to come around or also feels like im getting hung up on things
I think it can work if you’re ok with riding aggressively over the front like your saying. However I don’t think that really works well when things get steep. I’ll make a longer video explaining the whole concept a bit better
@@briancahal I recently spent 5 months onboard a Merida onesixty and it only has 437 CS but That bike is unbelievably good. Currently testing a Slash gen 6, but is high pivot so CS does grow. It feels like a bit of both short/long . The slash if you run a lower/longer stem the bike is very good.
Btw when you put the longer seatstay, I assume it raises the bb some? Any idea by how much? Probably not a bad thing given how low bb heights are on these bikes...
So according to you a long chainstay is the way to go. But SCOR do exactly the opposite, very short chainstay et long Reach and according to the reviews it works pretty well.. So maybe it's just a question personal feeling.
Thanks. Seems like your trying to convince yourself you like it. Should be immediately noticeable. Just like our Evo's. I'm gonna pass on this version. Not a fan of wireless anyway. Nice work
@@briancahal I do, and I think other people should too, because if people let a manufacturer get away with this nonsense then what happens if other manufacturers follow suit? then eventually we could end up in a situation where no new mountain bike has the ability to run a cable derailleur, taking choice away from people by forcing everyone to go wireless.
Is it me or does everybody keep describing this genie shock like a coil as far as the pros and cons. The new modern day coils are tunable and it just seems to me if you wanted that off the top crazy suppleness that’s why you get a coil.
This bike doesn’t appeal to me at all but I think the market for a bike that’s comfortable, safe and easy to ride passively is a lot bigger than for the kind of bike that likes to be ridden aggressively.
Whats your view on more extreme chainstay length to reach ratios? Like close to 1:1. Im on a medium Transition Spire with a 446 mm chainstay and a 455 mm reach. Im about to try out a mullet setup with an offset bushing as well as a +1.5° angle headset. (this is absolutely neccessary as I got an aluminium frame with bad tolerances that is at least half a degree slacker than advertised -> so high position already results in a 62.5° headangle making the low setting unridable...) Anyways: according to my math ill end up with about a 447 mm reach on the modified mullet... lets see how that goes. ps: I did not want the Patrol due to its short chainstays but now I feel like Ill be on the other end of the extreme haha
Saddle position sure makes a difference. I'm kinda caught up with being in the M/L area, but ride 480mm-ish reach bikes and fit the saddle far forward. It works great with flat pedals and technical climbing. Plus, it essentially makes the shorter chainstay bikes act as if it's longer.
Sounds like an exaggerated air spring with no midstroke support and harsh ranmp up. It would be super interesting to try this bike with a coil since its so linear. People might say the frame isnt progressive enough but i bet it would feel awesome
Yeah, I would also like to see a more progressive Air can comparison on this bike, both a coil and progressive air old really help cement some of Brian’s comments
@@dofranz1637 yes, genie is a proprietary shock. Just because you can put another shock on the SJ doesn’t mean the genie isn’t proprietary… cmon dude 🤯
@@andremtb480no brother something like the old specialized with the yoke only or an old Scott with the pull shock is proprietary. The genie shock is exclusive to this bike, but there is the same mounting standard to run something else.
Brian Cahal is soo good at these reviews! He just has the understanding of what is important, what we has to hear and how to tell it.
One of the best mtb reviewers in my opinion. Just compare this to the pb review - only after watching this video I think I understand this bike and know it’s not my cup of tea.
1:20, the most accurate description of trail chatter the has ever been uttered.
Love the review (and your others too). The level of nuance is fantastic. Most other reviews focus mainly on spec sheet details/things you can already read from an ad. Yours have a much more comprehensive lived in experience/tinkering/longevity etc. Kudos!
Thanks! Appreciate the feedback
Much prefer actual riding reviews too over other reviews
You're really good at explaining bike characteristics in a way that's easy to understand. Appreciate it.
You are one of the most articulate riders I've come across. You break down technical aspects very well.
Great review, man. Especially appreciate the comments on living with the bike and the overall quality of the component package
Honestly, this is the most succinct and concise description of how that genie works that I've seen (including all of the giant mob channels like pink bike...Thank ya kindly!
nice vid as always
this must be the best looking paintjob i have ever seen
The black seatstay looks kinda hot
Not gonna give up my 23 Stumpy but I really appreciate the thoroughness and specificity of this review. 🤙🏻
this is a very informative long term review.
This rear suspension behavior you mention is classic specialised Levo/Stumpjumper.
Even back to the 2017-2019 Specialized Enduro. Almost feels like a "flat tire" compared to most other suspension platforms when doing immediate back-to-back testing.
@@TheNationalTrails I agree. The Men 3 levo is better, and even the new Enduro. Has anyone tried the Stumpy 15 with the Ohlins coil?
Great video as always, ive got an s5 frame im building up right now cant wait to ride this thing!
Master class review
sounds like the EVO with the cascade link is still the answer... lol
This is super thorough. It sounds like the suspension is more newbie friendly and less expert friendly. Maybe they need to revisit the 4 bar thing instead of working so hard to get around it? For longer chainstays, it seems to make slow to medium speed riding a lot less fun. But I know people elsewhere go a lot faster.
Dig your approach of buying and installing a longer rear end.
Great review as always Brian!
Great review. Specialized does offer the bike with a coil shock on certain builds. I wonder if that would have been a better compromised between performance and comfort.
the crank & chainring looks legit
Sounds like they did a good job on the spring curve but missed out on damping.
Lovin the Briones berm blastin!!
Excellent review!
Great review! What tires did you switch to?
I do ride a old transition smuggler, with a similar geo. And I am your height and to me it was exactly the same. I put on a 50mm stem and after that it just worked way better.
they could have done this shock with a two step link function instead, to change progressivity. But another alloy brand does this already.
Have you tried a deviate? If you could get your hands on one I'd love to see a comparison between the highlander II and the druid v2. I was between both those bikes and chose the highlander but I'm interested to see how they would've compared
When riding the Stumpjumper Evo (the previous Stumpy model) how do you compare it to this one when it comes to the rear shock? Did you use spacers on the previous model, and did that work better than this one on familiar trails that you're pushing the bike to it's limits? Thanks...
Hi Mate great review, and good to see some one thrash the bike. I used to ride the Stumpjumpers, but in recent years loved my enduro for all its forgiveness. My question is, If this shock is designed for this frame, what would the Ohlins coil feel like? Do you think it would ride better in " aggressive mode"
Thanks.
Yessss! I prefer long chainstays
462 mm chainstays on my size L bike🤘
short stays are fun tho
@alextroche9453 it kinda depends. I ran my bike with a shorter 445 mm chainstays before and the philosophy of a modern 1300 mm wheelbase bike with a short chainstays just doesn't work imo. The bike felt sketchy and not fun at all. I think if you want a true jibb bike you need short chainstays AND generally a shorter bike
Got to ride Stumpy 15 a few times and I agree with pretty much everything you're saying! I think the hang up with companies still making bikes with short chainstays is the fact that the vast majority of mountain bikers are just fundamentally bad. It seems that crowd is hyped on short rear ends because they don't have much technique. The short rear end helps them skid around and lift the front end. I hear a lot of hate around the shop about the added complexity of flip chips, headset cups, etc, but I feel like adding a 10mm axle flip chip on a bike like this would be so sweet. Choose between 435/445mm, sure it's a bit more complexity with brake adapters and all that jazz but it's a place you can actually make big changes to the character of the bike.
I remember reading that more enduro racers tend to prefer shorter CS’s. I guess it’s because most of them suck.
@@bikeguy6800 I was responding to the above commenter who said bike companies spec short CS’s because most riders suck.
@@bikeguy6800 cringe
Essentially what I’m hearing the suspension behaviour is close to progressive leverage ratio (around 30%), quite a bit of SAG (35%), fast low speed rebound.
This also eats all the small bumps all day long because start of the travel is quite soft, but then it rumps up fast. on mid level consecutive hits such setup gets overwhelmed., you get quickly though early+mid stroke and hitting this ramp up “wall”.
Everyone keep in mind that this bike is available with a coil suspension. That should tell you something.
Do you think coil would be better? Im leaning more towards the coil, but that seems mad on a trail bike.
I think the problem with increasing chainstay lengths on trail bikes comes down to beginner and intermediate riders. That group tends to run slower speeds and longer chainstays can make the bike tough to handle on plain singletrack. What needs to happen is just adjustable chainstays at the least.
So I had a 2014 Transition Scout, that bike had a Rock Shox RCT3 shock with a Debonair can.
So Rock Shox were basically doing this same thing 10 years ago.
Hello Brian when will the chain ring damper review video come out?
I wonder if the coil fox live valve shock can make this bike feel a lot better. I think they have a fancy build kit that includes it.
I'd love to see a conversation with a shorter (Firm Medium / 450-460mm reach) and what they (or you) think of chain stay sizing.
Do you need to purchase both the chain-stay and rear seat stay? or does the seatstay account for the chainstay length? Tad confused.
Considering your strong opinions on chainstays, I'd love to hear what you think about the new Norco Optic and Sight. Ultra short chainstays but with the rearward axle path of the high pivot. I already own the previous generation of Optic, and I'm extremely tempted by the price on the 2025 Optic alloy frameset.
I’d be interested in trying these. I haven’t tried a high pivot with a short chainstay
Youre not allowed to be posting all these banger riding clips in a review video 🥵🥵
0:06 Since when was stage 5 in Dodge Ridge that “nice”???
Did u play with the bottom our spacer?
As someone who basically hates "modern" mountain bikes, I demo'd this thing in the carbon ohlins sorta 'park' build cuz extra 10mm up front and accidentally fell in love with it. And this was after demoing that Status 140 and feeling like I couldn't get along with it. A bike I WANTED to like a bit more but it felt imbalanced and awkward and I wasn't sure how I would remedy that, if a high rise bar would help or hurt, etc.
But I got on that Stumpy and just starting singin on the thing. I am a like low-mid speed rider focused on jumps and jibbin and all that (hence modern bike hate) and for modern bikes I basically ride one size down because the bikes for 6 foot are just too long for me, especially if chainstays are tiered by size. But yeah the short stays on this bike somehow just balanced it out amazingly for maybe what you would call 'average' trail riding as you were mentioning with the entire design feel of suspension characteristics.
I am wondering what Stumpy is thinking for fast people doing serious riding. Is the enduro gonna continue on for the heavy hitters (with that new suspension layout that was patented or whatever)... Or are the stumpy evo lovers gonna be stuck with this base Stumpy and puzzling out adjustments to keep it balanced at speed on serious terrain.
I'm also really confused because unless it was like an entire spring rate "up" the bike felt great on coil despite the linkage inherently running linear to 'match' the genie shock. And then on the budget end I wonder how it rides with non-genie shocks like that base Xfusion build... I guess only a beginner would buy that so they wouldn't even care? Not sure.
Did you have any issues with shock durability (with regards to the yoke)?
Where did you get the seatstay?
Has anyone tried the Ohlins mullet version of this bike! It seems the major selling point is the Genie shock for the Stumpjumper 15.
Can the high speed compression be re valved?
where are these trails at?
Happened to see a weird video on instagram and got scared for the first time in years. Actually scared like kids do. Watching this video soothed it out, strange ass comment I know lol but ty fam
im unsure how I feel about chainstay lengths, I ride quite aggressively over the front of the bike and often find long chainstays make the bike lazy in the rear, like im always waiting on the rear to come around or also feels like im getting hung up on things
I think it can work if you’re ok with riding aggressively over the front like your saying. However I don’t think that really works well when things get steep. I’ll make a longer video explaining the whole concept a bit better
@@briancahal I recently spent 5 months onboard a Merida onesixty and it only has 437 CS but That bike is unbelievably good.
Currently testing a Slash gen 6, but is high pivot so CS does grow. It feels like a bit of both short/long .
The slash if you run a lower/longer stem the bike is very good.
Totally, 100%
Btw when you put the longer seatstay, I assume it raises the bb some? Any idea by how much? Probably not a bad thing given how low bb heights are on these bikes...
So according to you a long chainstay is the way to go. But SCOR do exactly the opposite, very short chainstay et long Reach and according to the reviews it works pretty well.. So maybe it's just a question personal feeling.
can a guy do the same thing you did but on the the s3 and put s4 seat stay on?
Yeah I think so.
Are you getting a frameworks???
No
S4 is no go with stock chainstay, sounds expensive to swap out.
back to a Titan..
Thanks. Seems like your trying to convince yourself you like it. Should be immediately noticeable. Just like our Evo's. I'm gonna pass on this version. Not a fan of wireless anyway. Nice work
How about the fact that you can't run a cable derailleur on the carbon model!
I really don’t care. AXS is sweet
@@briancahal I do, and I think other people should too, because if people let a manufacturer get away with this nonsense then what happens if other manufacturers follow suit? then eventually we could end up in a situation where no new mountain bike has the ability to run a cable derailleur, taking choice away from people by forcing everyone to go wireless.
Apocalypse now
Is it me or does everybody keep describing this genie shock like a coil as far as the pros and cons. The new modern day coils are tunable and it just seems to me if you wanted that off the top crazy suppleness that’s why you get a coil.
This bike doesn’t appeal to me at all but I think the market for a bike that’s comfortable, safe and easy to ride passively is a lot bigger than for the kind of bike that likes to be ridden aggressively.
Whats your view on more extreme chainstay length to reach ratios?
Like close to 1:1.
Im on a medium Transition Spire with a 446 mm chainstay and a 455 mm reach.
Im about to try out a mullet setup with an offset bushing as well as a +1.5° angle headset. (this is absolutely neccessary as I got an aluminium frame with bad tolerances that is at least half a degree slacker than advertised -> so high position already results in a 62.5° headangle making the low setting unridable...)
Anyways: according to my math ill end up with about a 447 mm reach on the modified mullet... lets see how that goes.
ps: I did not want the Patrol due to its short chainstays but now I feel like Ill be on the other end of the extreme haha
480 reach and 470 chain stays. Out climbs anything and people chicken out at the speeds it's stable at.
@@tonym6633 whoa 470 is crazy, what bike and size is that? 😯
Saddle position sure makes a difference. I'm kinda caught up with being in the M/L area, but ride 480mm-ish reach bikes and fit the saddle far forward. It works great with flat pedals and technical climbing. Plus, it essentially makes the shorter chainstay bikes act as if it's longer.
Have you ridden the SJ EVO at all?
Yes
Sounds like an exaggerated air spring with no midstroke support and harsh ranmp up. It would be super interesting to try this bike with a coil since its so linear. People might say the frame isnt progressive enough but i bet it would feel awesome
Yeah, I would also like to see a more progressive Air can comparison on this bike, both a coil and progressive air old really help cement some of Brian’s comments
No Brain 2.0 or robot shifters for me.... Hard pass. I'll hang on to my Stevo.
Not gonna lie this bike sounds awful
As soon as I saw the geo and proprietary shock on the SJ 15 I thought wow, specialized, you really don’t get it
@@andremtb480shock isn’t proprietary, you can put any rear shock with the right dimensions on it
@@dofranz1637 yes, genie is a proprietary shock. Just because you can put another shock on the SJ doesn’t mean the genie isn’t proprietary… cmon dude 🤯
@@andremtb480no brother something like the old specialized with the yoke only or an old Scott with the pull shock is proprietary. The genie shock is exclusive to this bike, but there is the same mounting standard to run something else.
@@TheOtherPlayer it’s proprietary as it’s made for the SJ. Yes, it’s a proprietary shock. Google “Genie proprietary shock”
Good acknowledging that it’s a trail bike! Buy an Enduro if you want an enduro bike.
Sounds like a stupid bike. Bring back the evo
Why does it seem like you are looking for downhill race bike performance out of a trail bike?? It’s a 150mm bike dude
He's doing trail riding in his footage...
Most people are way over biked if they think what he's doing is gnarly