This early stage in the game, Kircheis looked at the officers to see who can be useful to Reinhard in his conquest for power. Very subtle stuff and super good shit.
That's exactly how they rose to power so quickly aside from other major factors. One of the reasons was that they knew how to scout and recruit talent for a long term conquest. He met Kesler before and asked him to join him years before he officially did. He eyed on Bittenfeld's talent when he was just starting out with his own fleet. Fahrenheit would eventually join the nobles during the Lippstad war only to be forgiven so he would join the victors but this was decided way before it. Eventually they all joined him and stayed with him to the end.
@@ythandlename indeed, the gaiden series show us How both Reinhard and kircheis searched for talents. Wahlen was an sub captain in a cruiser where Reinhard was the Commander, bittenfeld was Just an capitan, the same for eisenach. Muller just an officer on the military embassy on phezzan.
I usually hear divide and conquer, but yeah. It really wasn't that radical of an idea. Splitting up your force in the first place was a really dumb idea
@@alexschalk5439 Splitting up your force isn't a dumb idea. OR at least it isn't under the correct circumstances. An encirclement of any kind allows for a much more efficient defeat of the enemy. By fighting on a single front, losses will be high on both sides, even with the size advantage. It IS riskier. But high risk, high reward. The problem with the war was that both sides were dominated with conservative commanders who behaved expectedly and typically on the side of caution. Against a typical commander, the Republic's strategy would have been more efficient than a single fleet duel. Reinhard might have decided to retreat, even if they approached with this formation, if the Republic had commanders who were more innovative and fluid with their battle strategy. For example, if they expected his aggressive response and had told the side fleets to converge on the main fleet if they lost contact of either their enemy or the main fleet. Reinhard's fleet could have been completely surrounded and wiped out with minimal losses. And, while it may be questioned why bother as they already had the advantage in battle, if we look at a war as a whole, the Republic had a weaker war economy and overall military strength. By attempting to wipe out fleets instead of just winning individual battles, they could turn the war in their favour. Plus, the Republic's commanders were desperate for recognition and praise. They wanted to wipe out the fleet because it gets them more attention than simply fighting them off would do. If it wasn't a radical idea, then why is it famous? And why did some historical commanders see great success with it? It worked because it wasn't expected. It wasn't expected because it was radical. Strategy is essentially just a game of rock, paper, scissors; I guess. But, throughout history, strategists keep playing rock against rock. And LOTGH highlighted this with the 'Legends' successes.
Die Neue These is reboot. There is also remaster. That's the version most people saw online and it was made for DVD, then later realised on BluRay. Original was realised on Laserdisk and can be found on The Pirate Bay, with burned Central Anime subtitles. Difference is that some scenes were redrawn in remastered and quality is much better.
I just watched a clip. The characters are very plain. It annoyed me watching Attenborough looking and behaving like a pop star. And such a shame the og VA didn't repraise the rol.
That is the weakness of this strategy. By rushing past 2 of the 3 groups you expose your rear and also risk losing 1 or 2 of your group to 1 of the 3 groups weakening you. As every strategy it has its benefits and risks and works sometimes but not always
This early stage in the game, Kircheis looked at the officers to see who can be useful to Reinhard in his conquest for power. Very subtle stuff and super good shit.
He's looking at Fahrenheit yes?
@@spamquisition4046 Ye
That's exactly how they rose to power so quickly aside from other major factors. One of the reasons was that they knew how to scout and recruit talent for a long term conquest. He met Kesler before and asked him to join him years before he officially did. He eyed on Bittenfeld's talent when he was just starting out with his own fleet. Fahrenheit would eventually join the nobles during the Lippstad war only to be forgiven so he would join the victors but this was decided way before it. Eventually they all joined him and stayed with him to the end.
@@ythandlename indeed, the gaiden series show us How both Reinhard and kircheis searched for talents. Wahlen was an sub captain in a cruiser where Reinhard was the Commander, bittenfeld was Just an capitan, the same for eisenach. Muller just an officer on the military embassy on phezzan.
The actual war strategy is called "defeating in detail". Napoleon was a big fan of this concept and utilized it many times.
Legato RedWinters Napoleon didn't fuck up at waterloo, he fucked up when he was defeated and exiled previously. Waterloo probably wasn't winnable.
I usually hear divide and conquer, but yeah. It really wasn't that radical of an idea. Splitting up your force in the first place was a really dumb idea
Your name made this comment great
@@alexschalk5439 Splitting up your force isn't a dumb idea. OR at least it isn't under the correct circumstances. An encirclement of any kind allows for a much more efficient defeat of the enemy. By fighting on a single front, losses will be high on both sides, even with the size advantage. It IS riskier. But high risk, high reward.
The problem with the war was that both sides were dominated with conservative commanders who behaved expectedly and typically on the side of caution. Against a typical commander, the Republic's strategy would have been more efficient than a single fleet duel. Reinhard might have decided to retreat, even if they approached with this formation, if the Republic had commanders who were more innovative and fluid with their battle strategy. For example, if they expected his aggressive response and had told the side fleets to converge on the main fleet if they lost contact of either their enemy or the main fleet. Reinhard's fleet could have been completely surrounded and wiped out with minimal losses.
And, while it may be questioned why bother as they already had the advantage in battle, if we look at a war as a whole, the Republic had a weaker war economy and overall military strength. By attempting to wipe out fleets instead of just winning individual battles, they could turn the war in their favour. Plus, the Republic's commanders were desperate for recognition and praise. They wanted to wipe out the fleet because it gets them more attention than simply fighting them off would do.
If it wasn't a radical idea, then why is it famous? And why did some historical commanders see great success with it? It worked because it wasn't expected. It wasn't expected because it was radical. Strategy is essentially just a game of rock, paper, scissors; I guess. But, throughout history, strategists keep playing rock against rock. And LOTGH highlighted this with the 'Legends' successes.
2周目でこの時にファーレンハイトとメルカッツがいたことに気付いて驚いた。
人多すぎて覚えてられんよ。
ファーレンハイトは「おお～、なるほどなあ…」という表情をしているな。
やはり配下に加えて正解だったか。
ナポレオンの各個撃破戦術だな。
ファーレンハイトを見ると「こいつは姉の七光りで出世したわけではない」って思ってる感じだね。
それを見て
「うわ～・・・悪い顔してるわ～。」
って思ってそうなキルヒアイスが気になる。
まぁ、実際はラインハルトの役に立ちそうな人材を見極めてるんだけど。
どんなにハイテク化しても大事な話し合いは会って顔みてしないとね
If you want to know why, watch episode 64 and 65. It explained the history of earth till this point
Interesting to see how these people (or at least some of them) end up having their moments
優秀なヤンみたいな司令官が第四艦隊にいれば遅滞戦術で第二艦隊方面へ移動もしくは有利な中域に行ければ作戦は頓挫
これラインハルトが有能というか同盟が無能すぎたよね
通信障害が起きる距離とって進軍とか意味不明すぎる
同盟軍は包囲戦に並々ならぬ執念を持ってますよね。
同盟の総司令官が無能のパエッタだからね😂
ダゴンの殲滅戦で勝った時のやり方を踏襲したつもり つまり
過去の成功体験に同盟は酔っていた 田中芳樹氏が敢えてこういう描写を
したのは 「成功体験にしがみつく事の危険性」を語りたかった為だろう
分進合撃に対し各個撃破で負ける軍は情報共有や伝達ができてないから歴史になぞった負け方をしているってだけかな
包囲の網にかけるには各艦隊は距離をとらないといけない
距離が近すぎると帝国軍は包囲殲滅を警戒して近寄ってこないだろう
各個撃破されないが帝国軍が警戒して退くほどでもない距離を計算して保ち続けるのはなかなかに困難
同盟軍が全艦隊４万隻を集結させて、真正面から向かっていたら、ラインハルトがどうしたか気になる。
ふつうに撤退するか、何かの奇策を用いるか、あるいは援軍を呼び、それを囮にしてやはり各個撃破するのか。
聞いてみたいなぁ。
戦わないだろ。ラインハルトは常に戦略面を考慮して行動してんだから。
@@谷澤文隆
だろーな。
Sooo much better than the remaster
More like remake. But I'm with you. Nothing beats the original version.
Die Neue These is reboot. There is also remaster. That's the version most people saw online and it was made for DVD, then later realised on BluRay. Original was realised on Laserdisk and can be found on The Pirate Bay, with burned Central Anime subtitles. Difference is that some scenes were redrawn in remastered and quality is much better.
I just watched a clip. The characters are very plain. It annoyed me watching Attenborough looking and behaving like a pop star. And such a shame the og VA didn't repraise the rol.
My favorite ova
そもそも、宇宙戦争なのに
平面なのが・・
ま、銀英伝に限らないけど。
宇宙戦艦ヤマト「ゲフンゲフン」
機動戦士ガンダム「ヘックション」
のび太の宇宙大戦争「ドラえもーん」
最新版では包囲陣を敷く場合、円錐形になってましたね。
this is different from the one i have watched. in this conference only the 5 admirals are present and there is no war table .
This is from the Movie
@@gentlegiant7999 thank you
この戦いはヤンとラップの進言を司令官が受け入れていたら電波妨害をしようと同盟軍の大勝利、どちらかの司令官が受け入れていれば勝利が得られた戦いだったと思う。
ラインハルトがリスクを取って危ない橋を渡ったのか、自分より少し劣るくらいの将官すら同盟軍にはいないと自惚れて結果オーライになったのどちらだったのだろうか？
もし両翼の艦隊が合流していたら、撃破予定ポイントに敵はいないわけだから、その際は素直に撃破数稼いで後退じゃないかなぁ。完勝とはいかずとも部分的勝利を収めてヤンがやったように消耗戦に持ち込むってパターンのどちらかか。
ラインハルトは同盟軍の司令官が誰なのかを知ってたのでは？
どっちにしろ最初の攻撃で第4艦隊はやられる
1個艦隊でもやられたら包囲は破綻するのだから同盟軍勝利のシナリオは消えるだろう
時系列で戦況のシュミレーションとかできるだろ 提督みんなに知らされてないのがおかしいよな
キルヒアイスが目だけで、ああこの人は理解していると言っている
ベジータがこんな戦略家だとは想像できん。
これ最初よくわかってなかったけど
例えば 不良グループの抗争で
相手が10人でこちらが5人でも
相手が3人 3人 4人のグループを作って別れて包囲奇襲をかけようとしてる時
相手がいるポイントまで5人で走って行って、5人対3人でボコボコにした後、次来た3人も5人で囲んでボコボコにして、残った4人も5人でボコボコにしたら勝てるよって理論だよね
これって本当に成立するの？
3人と戦った時に戦力削られるかもしれないし
伝説の不良の理論だと、リーダー1人をやっつけると9人は降参するらしい。
不良たちが他の不良グループが襲われてることに気付かなければ出来る気がする。気付いて間髪入れずに救援に来られたらきついけど、例えば森の中とかの視界不良な場所なら大丈夫じゃない？
相手が油断していれば、最初の喧嘩でノーダメージでボコボコにできる。
相手の死角から襲いかかれば、何もさせずにノックアウトできる。
最後はまともに戦うことになるが、このときは、相手はビビっている。嵩に懸かれば、相手は縮こまって何もできない。
まあ、これは、昔ナポレオンが実際に行った戦闘をもとにしているから、可能かどうかで言えば、「本当にあったよ」と言うしかない。
That is the weakness of this strategy. By rushing past 2 of the 3 groups you expose your rear and also risk losing 1 or 2 of your group to 1 of the 3 groups weakening you. As every strategy it has its benefits and risks and works sometimes but not always
個別の敵と戦ってる最中に、他の個別の敵が合流してきたら終わりだよね。
あっという間に各個撃破しないと現実的じゃ無いなぁ。
この話で、ラインハルトの部下であったフォーゲルって提督、
この人はどうなっちゃったの？
たぶんリップシュタット戦役あたりで貴族軍に入ったのだと思います。
この作戦って相手が各個撃破を避けて艦隊を引いて囲めば破綻するのでは
相手がそうはしない、出来ないって確証があるのかもしれないけどね
帝国軍を包囲殲滅した
ダゴン星域会戦の再現に
固執してたから無理
同盟側は3個艦隊の提督たちの地位が対等だから俯瞰的に戦況をみて全体に指示をだせる人間が存在しないんだよ
この戦法だと、宇宙戦艦ヤマトであれば第4艦隊と帝国軍が交戦状態に入ったということが分かれば、艦隊が短距離ワープで戦場に急行するだろう。まあ銀英伝だと艦隊を構成する艦艇数が2オーダーぐらい多いから、艦隊で短距離ワープというのも難しいか。
このシーンで不可解なのはなんでメルカッツが無能側にいるのかってことだよな。
同盟軍が慎重に戦っていれば違っただろうに
楊文里はよい。
@themysteriouscrumpet
it is anime...
Yeah
Damn he even put three dots
themysteriouscrumpet, did you mean without pickelhaube?
これアスターテ会戦？
@@ガータ ありがとうございます
When was Merkatz on the side of Reinhard?
At the beginning of the series. Reinhard and Merkatz first opposed each other during the Imperial Civil War
Like I've said before, how can they be Prussia in space with PICKELHAUBES?????!!!!!!!!
They aren't Prussians. They are modelled after them and certainly have their mentality, but that's it.
@@ServantOfOdin Mentality? Hardly. This is japanese anime. They all act and speak like xix - xx century japanese imperial military.
@@marcinzysko1653 perhaps, but the same kind of behaviour fits for the same period here in Germany.
宇宙版官渡の戦い、かな？
知らんけど
91524.
この作戦はラインハルトのいう事が正しいように見受けられ、またアニメでもそのように展開したけれども、実際にやってみると条件が揃わないと成立しないような気がするし、また失敗した時の対策なんかもまったく考慮してないので相当に運がよかったと思える。もっともアニメで予定調和の世界なので運もクソもないけど。数の上で優勢であっても、それが２倍とか３倍とかでもない限り、すぐに一方向の敵を殲滅して完全無力化するなんて絶対に不可能だし、仮に殲滅無力化に成功してもある程度の損害は受けるものだ。しかしこのアニメだとまるでラインハルト側の艦隊がほとんど無傷のように描写している。これが現実にありえないし、最初に応対する艦隊にダブーのような守勢につよい提督がいたが（同盟だったらビュコックだとかヤンでもいいや）もうすでにラインハルトの作戦は失敗して３方向から包囲攻撃を受けているわけで、とても戦争の天才とは言えない。
満足か？トーシロ笑笑
艦隊の配置が違ってて最初に向かったのが第二艦隊だったら銀河の歴史はどうなっていたのだろう？
いやランチェスターの法則ってのがあってな
2万と1万2000が潰しあっても2万側は4000の損害で1万2000を全滅させられるんだよ
全滅ではなく潰滅でいいなら1333の損害で勝利できる
これを3回繰り返してもラインハルトの艦隊は1万数千は残るので勝率は高い
自由惑星同盟軍の正面戦力が少なすぎた
ナポレオンは成功してるけど 艦隊戦でこの戦術は流石に無理があり過ぎだろ
モデルは日露戦争だろ
日露戦争で連合艦隊はロシアの旅順艦隊とバルチック艦隊とウラジオ艦隊が合流する前に各個撃破した
@@橘内裕也 あまりにナポレオン推しが多くて やっぱり同じ艦隊戦のモデルになりますよね
This translation is weird and awkward.
オーベルシュタインは過大評価と過小評価どちら側にも過剰に寄る強いキャラ
ただ犬のくだりは安っぽくて嫌いなエピソード
@@user-cx1ke2en7o
てめーの好き嫌いなどどうでも良い
コメントすんなアホ
Damn, these subs are terrible