I like the MMA gloves because it is more true to proper striking fundamentals as I’m a martial artist. What I think is the issue are the clinch rules. If they don’t have the ref breaking it up so much, it becomes much more dangerous for a good boxer, who isn’t as good at fighting in the clinch as the other guy, staying in boxing pressure fighting range. This negative feedback mechanism will then emphasize kicking range again.
It's not only removing the clinch, it's removing kicks, sweeps and everything that makes Muay Thai beautiful. It's removing the art from the sport and turning it in to wild brawls. It's like bareknuckle boxing. If you've ever watched those fights it's a lot swinging and hoping to land one decent punch. There are no set-ups it's all haymakers. For the most part at least. I'm not a fan.
I am. It captures the warrior ethos perfectly. Say you have a sword in front of you to deal with and you have one of your own, do you have "rounds" to deal with this or is it time for time to stop so your plan can come to you and begin in the same instant? It's not about money or fame, it's about being the last swordsman standing.
this is because it is new, what separates average from world class is skill, look at superlek, look at tawanchai, sua black.... these athletes utilizes all weapons. small gloves is better, better for clinching and doesn't give you a sense of security that 10-12 oz gloves have for defense. So far its the high level fighters who can utilize all weapons.
It's because of the BKFC that I am not too worried. People who have no interest in sports but just want to see brawls will eventually all go there, leaving One with no choice but to revert back. I hope.
A very good point - essentially you're right, Chatri IS trying to grab the MMA crowd to MT by way of using mma gloves and it is changing MT into boxing with kicks, knees and elbows. The small gloves could enhance the clinch which I think would be great as we can see more detail, so ONE fc should allow more clinch but I do not hold my breath.
The gloves added in the early 1900s, the small gloves are closer to the wraps they used previously. For everyone saying that this will ruin muay thai, you could say the same about the big gloves. This is actually a bit of a return to "traditional" muay thai
In my opinion its not really a glove issue but rather a ruleset issue. The argument for removing clinching is generally to remove stalling and encourage a higher paced fight. But on the other hand, removing clinching can also allow someone to stall in the clinch because they know the referee will break it up instead of having to fight out of the clinch. The no clinch rules here actually seem counterintuitive to me, because in this case the knockout bonuses may incentivize clinchers to do more damage in the clinch rather than tie up to rack up points with tap/play knees. Essentially, as you said, it seems to have turned muay thai into glorified kickboxing. Like in MMA, the small gloves gives chances for more knockouts but the grappling can help neutralize a heavy handed opponent, allowing the clinch in these MMA glove Muay Thai bouts can give the fighters some opportunity to neutralize the hands and we may even see some new and exciting clinch evolution and tactics due to the ability to grab as you mentioned for MMA. It lets the more serious fans who practice the art study different styles and watch different types of fights play out and perhaps more importantly it lets the fighters have an option to protect/defend themselves from the hands if they would like to choose that path.
That’s a good point. The rules do encourage them to stand there and trade . That tactic could be nullified with the clinch. I guess it would come down to the referees judgement on wether the clinching was active and doing damage like in the video clips I posted , or wether the clinching was purely to escape and score small knee points and stall the fight.
Also some of them are actually fighting tremendously well in the small gloves , offensively and defensively , eg tanwachai and superbon’s bout was extremely competitive in the small gloves . Great display of Muay Thai. But still a large lack of clinch. But their styles lean more on the side of favoring striking rather than clinching.
I’m so glad to see someone say this! I entirely agree. I hate seeing elite strikers using MMA gloves and destroying each other so casual fans can can enjoy it more. I hope they return to eight or ten oz gloves for Muay Thai. I also like the five round format, it gives technical fighters or fighter who like to score and move and rack up points more opportunity. Perhaps not as exciting for fans who want action and knock outs but if you enjoy technical matches I think it facilities them better. Great video!
I like to watch lethwei Burmese bare knuckle boxing it isn't as technical as Muay Thai but it's brutal but some letwei fighters are very technical also If you think about it that's how Muay Thai used to be no gloves gloves weren't introduced until 1930's
I thought with the advent of mma gloves the clinch would get more technical as the hands are more free to hand fight. I’m disappointed to see how the organisation is curtailing one of Muay Thai’s fundamental aspects in order to appease a (perhaps) wider, less trained audience
Actually ridiculous to think One FC would give fighters MMA gloves that allow for better clinching, just to limit/deter them from actually getting into it lol.
I like the small gloves but hate them breaking up the clinch. The only person they let clinch is Rodtang if he's losing. I even liked the Xiong vs Wondergirl special rules fight where they used 4 oz gloves and wore boxing shoes and just boxed.
I think big gloves are cool if you're into the sport aspect. But IMO the sport is only interesting because it can help us learn what would work in a real fight. I like small gloves to see how the defense changes when you don't have big gloves to hide behind, and having them in Muay Thai you can't abuse takedowns and control time to wrestle your way out of a beating.
Maybe they try bare knuckle muai Thai. Punches would powerful but a fighter cannot recklessly punch for fear of damaging their hands. Incentivises traditionally favour strikes like kicks, elbows, and knees.
I agree that ONE refs should give the fighters more time to work in the clinch but I don't see how small gloves affects anything here. If anything, the fewer rounds and importance placed on getting a finish have lessened Nak Muays' willingness to tie up since finishes are less common from the clinch. And IMO Thai clinching is significantly easier barehanded than wearing gloves.
For the worse. It's a shame to see the skill set of a 100-200 fight athlete squandered in a wild brawl for KO bonuses, and it chews through them physically. Then they're spit out by the machine after using their names to promote new young talent (see Carillo vs Nong-O).
Definitely should make a in depth video About the differences between mma striking compared to Thai/K1 and why some high level pure strikers get outstruck in mma 👊🏻
OneFC muaythai is MT lite for me. MT is DEFINED by technical clinch striking/grappling that isn't in any other sport other than MMA. ONEs choice to remove this is to the detriment of the sport. Edit: this has nothing to do with the gloves but because of ONEs officiating
Honestly its coming to the point where MMA clinch striking is superior to Muay Thai, which really shouldn't be the case when that was Muay Thai's biggest weapon. Without it, its not very different to kickboxing.
Totally but respectfully disagree. I like Muay Thai done in MMA gloves as they were originally fought (much like Lethwei) with only hand wrappings. The techniques that define traditional muay thai were developed with little gloves/ hand wraps not with boxing gloves. Now from viewer's point of view, nobody likes excessive clinching that often plague muay thai fights. It favours too much on elbows which cause premature stoppage and makes judging very difficult. No average fighters do not win more often with small gloves. I think that stats is unfounded and it's way too early to tell. I think one Championship is doing a great job getting almost everything right: 3 rounders, small gloves + restriction on clinching.
@@bradquakeriddell I also respectfully disagree (while agreeing with many of your points): nothing more boring to me than those fighters who just shell up with their big pillows, waiting for the flurry of punches to stop before counterattacking: small gloves force them to have a more evasive, smart and active defense, with footwork, head movement, active hands defense etc. Also, many muay thai fights were litterally a ping-pong match of roundhouse kicks with very sloppy hands defense, now they have to think smarter about their boxing and positioning. To me, small gloves is "you lose two, you get three".
I think the constant breaking up of clinches is more unwatchable than just letting guys try to work inside. Nothing wrong with a lull in action- it actually enhances it when something does happen. Elbows and blood are cool and people want to see that, so why mitigate the opportunities for it?
Glad to see you making content again. One FC has almost a 50 percent knockout rate in their muay thai fights. I watch very often in Lumpinee stadium on friday nights and the atmosphere is good. I think the traditional muay thai will not die out, but there is huge potential for international success for the small gloves to bring money into the sport. Maybe it can help to get better payrolls for fighters and eleminate of shady promotions . Its the casuals MMA Fans wet dream and i hope it will hit really big in the next years 😂❤
I think you make a great point. Maybe keep the 3 rounds but do away with the small gloves. I wonder if fighters will adapt their defense more to the small gloves in the future kind of how Dustin Poirier uses the crossblock occasionally. Or is defensewith small gloves pretty much as good as its going to get and there is not much room for growth?
Yea I agree with 3 rounds . And doing away with the mme gloves . I think it’s always going to be hard defensively in mma . But the variation in skill level in different comports of mma allows you to last longer striking . The guys in Muay Thai and mma are specialists right , so they are so accurate and good at one thing, giving them much more opportunity to finish the fight faster and more easily . I dunno. We’ll see I guess
i like open palm gloves. but i think thicker mma style gloves like karate combat, pride, etc should be next but emphasizing on thumb protection. With big gloves its tricky to clinch and catch kicks...
People like superlek show that it’s not all about brawling, he still uses all weapons effectively and that’s why he wins and wins and wins. he clinches, elbows, knees, kicks and punches
Solid takes bro. Do you see a lot of clubs throughout NZ leaning towards K1 over trad Muay Thai? I've noticed it in South Island gyms. Aus seems to be the opposite. To me, theres a reason why you hear corners screaming "KNEEEEE!" throughout fights haha. Because most people either don't train clinch or think the ref is gonna break it up anyway. The art of clinching seems to be turning into the art of holding and throwing slap knees over here
I think clinch probably isn’t as incorporated into our style as much as it is here. It’s a skill that you do if you like it, or if you are good at it,because the scoring is different in NZ . Nothing is favored , even scoring . I think western counties should score all strikes evenly as there is not the gambling scene like here . But I’m saying that , that also makes no sense . Why make a strike like a kick score a lot when sometimes it’s the easier thing to land than a punch. It confuses the shit out of me .
Bad enough to see the clinch slowly lose value in Muay Thai. Its even worse when you see it all but neutered and then see supposed 'boxers' beat up nak muays and then have casual talk about how Nak Muays apparently have bad boxing... when one of their key defences against them were clinches to begin with. Also as a Judoka, I've learned to appreciate clinch fighting and I'm honestly sad to see the dynamics of clinch fighting go away.
I personally believe that the MMA gloves make the clinch a bit more nuanced as it creates more holes in a persons defense but also gives them the ability to have a bit more control on their opponent. As a matter of fact in BKFC there's some fighters who dominate in the clinch and quite cleanly as well. That being said I don't think its the gloves that's killing the clinch but instead the rule set and the context these fights are being fought in. In Thailand most fighters are a lot more technical and clinch more because of the gambling rounds and point system like you mentioned but also because they cant risk too much injury in a single fight due to them most likely having to fight again either in the same month, week, or even day. And in ONE a lot of guys dont fight as often as your traditional stadium fighter so they can afford to get into these wild slug fests. That being said I believe refs should let the fighters fight at their own pace. I hate seeing refs interfering when both fighters are either actively feeling each other out or actively fighting in the clinch.
I think the MMA glove striking has its pros and cons, I'm glad some Thai legends are getting paid and a nice post prime career but it's definitely not "Muay Thai" muay thai, it's a hybrid like you said and I think that gives people a false idea of the sport. I'm also not sure, and I'm not near an expert, that smaller gloves mean the better fighter can lose I think it's just the transition to a different sport thing and some fighters still treat it like traditional muay thai instead of the new faster paced more hands heavy style, people still just occasionally get caught even in big gloves too you just can't get sloppy with your defense in small gloves. I am real sad that there is basically no clinch art left, really interesting to watch the greats of clinch but I feel like it's been dead for a minute even in traditional muay thai and this is just the final nail in the coffin. Love the content hope to keep seeing it! ❤
Good comment . I 100% agree with you that it’s greats to see and hear that these legend fighters are getting paid something substantial and they can actually retire with something in their pockets and houses etc , so cudos to promoters for that. You can get sloppy and lose in big gloves , correct . Those gloves can limit styles of fighting in striking eg Marat Gregorian’s style of marching forward in close range would be horrible in mma gloves . For him. That’s why I love the bigger gloves . It opens so much up in striking .
@bradquakeriddell-quakecomb2134 no disagreement about allowing for more styles that's why I love Japanese kickboxing so much right now! You couldn't get guys like Masaaki Noiri, Yuki Yoza or Kazuki Osaki in small gloves so I'm really thankful that there's still a place for that. I feel like the small gloves open up a lot of stuff and create different styles too though with the different things it emphasizes. Would be interesting to see you do a video on how transitioning affected some kickboxers and Nak Muays styles, Pereira, Izzy, yourself, Superbon and Haggerty have all done well transitioning and really exploiting those new found openings.
If kard cheuk still had legitimate practitioners who fought with the style that they used too it would be cool. But they were kind of chasing the same thing. Which as far as I’ve seen, living here now I never see it , it’s kinda dead also.
But doesn't the MMA gloves favor guys with high punching output equally to how bigger gloves favor clinching? Is one style worth more than another? I think you can argue that bigger gloves penalizes good defensive fundementals because you can put up a high shell and walk forward. I think there is a place for 4oz Muay Thai, especially in term of the interest it has generated for a fairly stagnant sport. However, it is a shame that clinching is being penalized because I feel like the smaller gloves favors a more active and exciting clinch as well.
Not so sure about caring deeply one way or another, but you do make some relevant observations. You mentioned the rules for clinch and the propensity to break up clinches early and this seems to be the biggest contribute to the issues that you attribute to the smaller gloves. I see this as more of an attempt to "smooth" the training regimen of fighters and their paths through the various combat sports. For legit muay thai trainers, they would be able to make the case that their students would have MUCH less to learn on an international stage by training with them, should they want to transition to MMA. In other words, it seems like the promoters WANT the sport to be synonymous with the spirit of fighting itself as much as MMA and not seen as merely an "entertaining component" to fighting like boxing, kickboxing, wrestling, BJJ, etc.
But clinch striking is an important part of MMA, and had always been one of Muay Thai's strongest weapons against other strikers. Its diminishment is worse for the martial art.
IMO (which is an MMA biased opinion), if you had a striking continuum of K1 rules kickboxing at one end and One FC rules MMA at the other, the Muay Thai clinch rules are a shitty medium between the two. It's an incredibly incomplete clinch game that has to be modified significantly in an MMA ruleset (or in a real life unarmed fight for that matter). I feel as though combat sports with striking involved should be all the way in or all the way out when it comes to grappling components like the clinch. The western boxing ruleset regarding clinching looks good on paper but isn't applied that way in reality and boxers use it to punch and clutch or stall. Maybe some blend of shoot boxing/sanda/Muay Thai rules would produce the best result? That way you'd get the excitement of striking, clinching and takedowns in the most realistic and least limited way. And you'd get it without the ground fighting that seems to turn a certain demographic of fans away from MMA. Regarding the glove size, the smaller gloves are more realistic but I would use Pride FC gloves or small fingerless gloves to avoid the eye poking issue the UFC has. I think you'd see Muay Thai competitors continue to adapt and the brawling/one punch K.O.'s should slow down. On thing you didn't address was the change from a four sided ring to an eight sided cage (essentially a circle). I think that's had as great or an even greater impact on Muay Thai competition outcomes when compared to the clinching and glove changes. I'm in favour of a four sided cage personally. Circles only work in wrestling and that's because you give up points to your opponent for stepping out of bounds or backing up. I understand traditional Muay Thai has rules against passivity as well but I'm not sure if One FC has these rules. I'm a fan of yours and would love to hear your critique of my opinion and thanks for always making great content!
I don't think the gloves have much to do with it, logically, having grappling gloves should make clinching better. It's ONE's rule set about clinching.
Why put all the changes in the same dicussion? The lack in clinching isnt because of the mma gloves but because of the ruleset. In my opinion one should keep their current structure but go back to the normal muay thai rules for clinching. Like you pointed out 3 rounds for non title fights are just more entertaining than five round fights so i would keep it that way. For the mma gloves I just find the fights more aesthetic and entertaining to watch with mma gloves also because it resebles a real fight more and comes closer to the roots of muay thai. I also like the rule changes of one when it comes to the point system. In my opionin it makes zero sense to make kicks more high scoring than punches if they produce the same amount of damage so they should do it like in mma damage trumps everything. That doesnt mean that the muay thai style will die there are still hundreds of kick dominant fighters at the highest level it will just make the styles more equal.
Thanks Brotha🤙, I be curious on your perspective on Cedric Doumbe in MMA, since you fought him. Will he be as successful as Alex Pereira and Israel Adesanya 🤔
Hey bro. Time will tell. But in my opinion the debut was not what it was hyped up to be . Just a bit of a blunder catch and messy striking , nothing that I would consider to be outstanding
@@bradquakeriddell I feel like Cedric kinda always looks like that though, just kinda randomness until he knocks someone into space and you realize he did have some through line of thought it just wasn't immediately obvious.
Don’t think clinch is dying I’ve always like the idea of Muay Thai with mma gloves with in regards to the clinch ruleset issue not glove issue, could make them 6-8oz mma gloves rather than 4oz tho also 3 round for standard fights and championships being 5 like what the ufc did is my fave round system
Naw it’s not the gloves fault one fc breaks clinch fast and rewards ppl you defensively clinch They’re are not allowing the elevation of small gloves clinch
Ruin... No It's simply a different sport at this point. I wish extended clinching exchanges would be allowed by ONE but it still produces fantastic action. However, that should call it another name cause it ain't actually Muay Thai
Mma gloves = kard chuek This concept isn't new. Its one fc's undermining clinch and favouring more striking. mma gloves does not mean less muay thai essence. An organization with kard chuek "thai fight league" , thai fight international for english commentary. People are pigeon-holed on the fact that one fc doing mma gloves in muay thai , it isn't unique. People need to watch other muay thai organizations to know more than what one fc is putting out.
Pretty much agree with all of your insights and appreciate you sharing them. ONE championship MT is dumbing down a highly nuanced and intricate striking sport for the sake of “entertainment.“ The wild brawling is cool here and there, but a real fan of the sport will get bored. Skill and technicality are defining qualities of MT and it’s honestly in danger of being eroded. Why would a modern MT fighter learn golden era skills if a KO bonus is equal to multiple purses in the stadiums?
I like the MMA gloves because it is more true to proper striking fundamentals as I’m a martial artist. What I think is the issue are the clinch rules.
If they don’t have the ref breaking it up so much, it becomes much more dangerous for a good boxer, who isn’t as good at fighting in the clinch as the other guy, staying in boxing pressure fighting range.
This negative feedback mechanism will then emphasize kicking range again.
It's not only removing the clinch, it's removing kicks, sweeps and everything that makes Muay Thai beautiful. It's removing the art from the sport and turning it in to wild brawls. It's like bareknuckle boxing. If you've ever watched those fights it's a lot swinging and hoping to land one decent punch. There are no set-ups it's all haymakers. For the most part at least. I'm not a fan.
I am. It captures the warrior ethos perfectly. Say you have a sword in front of you to deal with and you have one of your own, do you have "rounds" to deal with this or is it time for time to stop so your plan can come to you and begin in the same instant? It's not about money or fame, it's about being the last swordsman standing.
this is because it is new, what separates average from world class is skill, look at superlek, look at tawanchai, sua black.... these athletes utilizes all weapons. small gloves is better, better for clinching and doesn't give you a sense of security that 10-12 oz gloves have for defense. So far its the high level fighters who can utilize all weapons.
It's because of the BKFC that I am not too worried. People who have no interest in sports but just want to see brawls will eventually all go there, leaving One with no choice but to revert back. I hope.
A very good point - essentially you're right, Chatri IS trying to grab the MMA crowd to MT by way of using mma gloves and it is changing MT into boxing with kicks, knees and elbows. The small gloves could enhance the clinch which I think would be great as we can see more detail, so ONE fc should allow more clinch but I do not hold my breath.
It definitely could enhance the clinch I agree . But they just arnt allowing for that . Which sucks .
The gloves added in the early 1900s, the small gloves are closer to the wraps they used previously. For everyone saying that this will ruin muay thai, you could say the same about the big gloves. This is actually a bit of a return to "traditional" muay thai
Finally some sanity in these comments
In my opinion its not really a glove issue but rather a ruleset issue. The argument for removing clinching is generally to remove stalling and encourage a higher paced fight. But on the other hand, removing clinching can also allow someone to stall in the clinch because they know the referee will break it up instead of having to fight out of the clinch. The no clinch rules here actually seem counterintuitive to me, because in this case the knockout bonuses may incentivize clinchers to do more damage in the clinch rather than tie up to rack up points with tap/play knees. Essentially, as you said, it seems to have turned muay thai into glorified kickboxing. Like in MMA, the small gloves gives chances for more knockouts but the grappling can help neutralize a heavy handed opponent, allowing the clinch in these MMA glove Muay Thai bouts can give the fighters some opportunity to neutralize the hands and we may even see some new and exciting clinch evolution and tactics due to the ability to grab as you mentioned for MMA. It lets the more serious fans who practice the art study different styles and watch different types of fights play out and perhaps more importantly it lets the fighters have an option to protect/defend themselves from the hands if they would like to choose that path.
That’s a good point. The rules do encourage them to stand there and trade . That tactic could be nullified with the clinch. I guess it would come down to the referees judgement on wether the clinching was active and doing damage like in the video clips I posted , or wether the clinching was purely to escape and score small knee points and stall the fight.
Also some of them are actually fighting tremendously well in the small gloves , offensively and defensively , eg tanwachai and superbon’s bout was extremely competitive in the small gloves . Great display of Muay Thai. But still a large lack of clinch. But their styles lean more on the side of favoring striking rather than clinching.
I think they like the idea of having a country full of gyms with stables of deadly strikers who don't necessarily need to be retrained for MMA.
I’m so glad to see someone say this! I entirely agree. I hate seeing elite strikers using MMA gloves and destroying each other so casual fans can can enjoy it more.
I hope they return to eight or ten oz gloves for Muay Thai. I also like the five round format, it gives technical fighters or fighter who like to score and move and rack up points more opportunity. Perhaps not as exciting for fans who want action and knock outs but if you enjoy technical matches I think it facilities them better.
Great video!
Yeah 8-10 gloves is my favourite too!
I like to watch lethwei Burmese bare knuckle boxing it isn't as technical as Muay Thai but it's brutal but some letwei fighters are very technical also
If you think about it that's how Muay Thai used to be no gloves gloves weren't introduced until 1930's
I thought with the advent of mma gloves the clinch would get more technical as the hands are more free to hand fight. I’m disappointed to see how the organisation is curtailing one of Muay Thai’s fundamental aspects in order to appease a (perhaps) wider, less trained audience
i agree bro it would open up the ability to do some new creative clinching and we could learn so much more.
the changes in the clinching rules to me are the worst all the flow of the fight gets lost with the judge breaking the clinching all the time.
MMA gloves would enhance Muay Thai. It all depends on the rules putting limitation on clinch fighting.
ONE still has kickboxing in 10oz gloves, and its still just as good imo
Actually ridiculous to think One FC would give fighters MMA gloves that allow for better clinching, just to limit/deter them from actually getting into it lol.
I like the small gloves but hate them breaking up the clinch. The only person they let clinch is Rodtang if he's losing. I even liked the Xiong vs Wondergirl special rules fight where they used 4 oz gloves and wore boxing shoes and just boxed.
I think big gloves are cool if you're into the sport aspect. But IMO the sport is only interesting because it can help us learn what would work in a real fight. I like small gloves to see how the defense changes when you don't have big gloves to hide behind, and having them in Muay Thai you can't abuse takedowns and control time to wrestle your way out of a beating.
Maybe they try bare knuckle muai Thai. Punches would powerful but a fighter cannot recklessly punch for fear of damaging their hands. Incentivises traditionally favour strikes like kicks, elbows, and knees.
I agree that ONE refs should give the fighters more time to work in the clinch but I don't see how small gloves affects anything here. If anything, the fewer rounds and importance placed on getting a finish have lessened Nak Muays' willingness to tie up since finishes are less common from the clinch.
And IMO Thai clinching is significantly easier barehanded than wearing gloves.
For the worse. It's a shame to see the skill set of a 100-200 fight athlete squandered in a wild brawl for KO bonuses, and it chews through them physically. Then they're spit out by the machine after using their names to promote new young talent (see Carillo vs Nong-O).
Definitely should make a in depth video
About the differences between mma striking compared to Thai/K1 and why some high level pure strikers get outstruck in mma 👊🏻
OneFC muaythai is MT lite for me. MT is DEFINED by technical clinch striking/grappling that isn't in any other sport other than MMA.
ONEs choice to remove this is to the detriment of the sport.
Edit: this has nothing to do with the gloves but because of ONEs officiating
Honestly its coming to the point where MMA clinch striking is superior to Muay Thai, which really shouldn't be the case when that was Muay Thai's biggest weapon. Without it, its not very different to kickboxing.
Totally but respectfully disagree. I like Muay Thai done in MMA gloves as they were originally fought (much like Lethwei) with only hand wrappings. The techniques that define traditional muay thai were developed with little gloves/ hand wraps not with boxing gloves. Now from viewer's point of view, nobody likes excessive clinching that often plague muay thai fights. It favours too much on elbows which cause premature stoppage and makes judging very difficult. No average fighters do not win more often with small gloves. I think that stats is unfounded and it's way too early to tell. I think one Championship is doing a great job getting almost everything right: 3 rounders, small gloves + restriction on clinching.
Nothing wrong with disagreeing
@@bradquakeriddell I also respectfully disagree (while agreeing with many of your points): nothing more boring to me than those fighters who just shell up with their big pillows, waiting for the flurry of punches to stop before counterattacking: small gloves force them to have a more evasive, smart and active defense, with footwork, head movement, active hands defense etc.
Also, many muay thai fights were litterally a ping-pong match of roundhouse kicks with very sloppy hands defense, now they have to think smarter about their boxing and positioning. To me, small gloves is "you lose two, you get three".
I think the constant breaking up of clinches is more unwatchable than just letting guys try to work inside. Nothing wrong with a lull in action- it actually enhances it when something does happen.
Elbows and blood are cool and people want to see that, so why mitigate the opportunities for it?
Glad to see you making content again. One FC has almost a 50 percent knockout rate in their muay thai fights. I watch very often in Lumpinee stadium on friday nights and the atmosphere is good.
I think the traditional muay thai will not die out, but there is huge potential for international success for the small gloves to bring money into the sport.
Maybe it can help to get better payrolls for fighters and eleminate of shady promotions . Its the casuals MMA Fans wet dream and i hope it will hit really big in the next years 😂❤
I think you make a great point. Maybe keep the 3 rounds but do away with the small gloves.
I wonder if fighters will adapt their defense more to the small gloves in the future kind of how Dustin Poirier uses the crossblock occasionally. Or is defensewith small gloves pretty much as good as its going to get and there is not much room for growth?
Yea I agree with 3 rounds . And doing away with the mme gloves . I think it’s always going to be hard defensively in mma . But the variation in skill level in different comports of mma allows you to last longer striking . The guys in Muay Thai and mma are specialists right , so they are so accurate and good at one thing, giving them much more opportunity to finish the fight faster and more easily . I dunno. We’ll see I guess
i like open palm gloves. but i think thicker mma style gloves like karate combat, pride, etc should be next but emphasizing on thumb protection. With big gloves its tricky to clinch and catch kicks...
Sports evolve... life goes on. Just enjoy the ride.
People like superlek show that it’s not all about brawling, he still uses all weapons effectively and that’s why he wins and wins and wins. he clinches, elbows, knees, kicks and punches
Solid takes bro. Do you see a lot of clubs throughout NZ leaning towards K1 over trad Muay Thai? I've noticed it in South Island gyms. Aus seems to be the opposite.
To me, theres a reason why you hear corners screaming "KNEEEEE!" throughout fights haha. Because most people either don't train clinch or think the ref is gonna break it up anyway. The art of clinching seems to be turning into the art of holding and throwing slap knees over here
I think clinch probably isn’t as incorporated into our style as much as it is here. It’s a skill that you do if you like it, or if you are good at it,because the scoring is different in NZ . Nothing is favored , even scoring . I think western counties should score all strikes evenly as there is not the gambling scene like here . But I’m saying that , that also makes no sense . Why make a strike like a kick score a lot when sometimes it’s the easier thing to land than a punch. It confuses the shit out of me .
Great video! It's super interesting to get a perspective from a fighter who is truly high level at both MMA and Muay Thai
Thanks bro
Awesome video and yep good point about MMA gloves changing Muai Thai fights.
How about bare knuckle's effects on technical display
Bad enough to see the clinch slowly lose value in Muay Thai. Its even worse when you see it all but neutered and then see supposed 'boxers' beat up nak muays and then have casual talk about how Nak Muays apparently have bad boxing... when one of their key defences against them were clinches to begin with.
Also as a Judoka, I've learned to appreciate clinch fighting and I'm honestly sad to see the dynamics of clinch fighting go away.
The clinch is definitely dying in One FC. The gloves also make boxing a priority.
I think you did an excellent job of explaining the issue
I personally believe that the MMA gloves make the clinch a bit more nuanced as it creates more holes in a persons defense but also gives them the ability to have a bit more control on their opponent. As a matter of fact in BKFC there's some fighters who dominate in the clinch and quite cleanly as well. That being said I don't think its the gloves that's killing the clinch but instead the rule set and the context these fights are being fought in. In Thailand most fighters are a lot more technical and clinch more because of the gambling rounds and point system like you mentioned but also because they cant risk too much injury in a single fight due to them most likely having to fight again either in the same month, week, or even day. And in ONE a lot of guys dont fight as often as your traditional stadium fighter so they can afford to get into these wild slug fests. That being said I believe refs should let the fighters fight at their own pace. I hate seeing refs interfering when both fighters are either actively feeling each other out or actively fighting in the clinch.
Very good point and very informative
I think the MMA glove striking has its pros and cons, I'm glad some Thai legends are getting paid and a nice post prime career but it's definitely not "Muay Thai" muay thai, it's a hybrid like you said and I think that gives people a false idea of the sport. I'm also not sure, and I'm not near an expert, that smaller gloves mean the better fighter can lose I think it's just the transition to a different sport thing and some fighters still treat it like traditional muay thai instead of the new faster paced more hands heavy style, people still just occasionally get caught even in big gloves too you just can't get sloppy with your defense in small gloves. I am real sad that there is basically no clinch art left, really interesting to watch the greats of clinch but I feel like it's been dead for a minute even in traditional muay thai and this is just the final nail in the coffin. Love the content hope to keep seeing it! ❤
Good comment . I 100% agree with you that it’s greats to see and hear that these legend fighters are getting paid something substantial and they can actually retire with something in their pockets and houses etc , so cudos to promoters for that. You can get sloppy and lose in big gloves , correct . Those gloves can limit styles of fighting in striking eg Marat Gregorian’s style of marching forward in close range would be horrible in mma gloves . For him. That’s why I love the bigger gloves . It opens so much up in striking .
@bradquakeriddell-quakecomb2134 no disagreement about allowing for more styles that's why I love Japanese kickboxing so much right now! You couldn't get guys like Masaaki Noiri, Yuki Yoza or Kazuki Osaki in small gloves so I'm really thankful that there's still a place for that. I feel like the small gloves open up a lot of stuff and create different styles too though with the different things it emphasizes. Would be interesting to see you do a video on how transitioning affected some kickboxers and Nak Muays styles, Pereira, Izzy, yourself, Superbon and Haggerty have all done well transitioning and really exploiting those new found openings.
Could be eule or mindset thats making rhe change. Muay Kard Cheuk still seems pretty similar to competing with gloves?
If kard cheuk still had legitimate practitioners who fought with the style that they used too it would be cool. But they were kind of chasing the same thing. Which as far as I’ve seen, living here now I never see it , it’s kinda dead also.
But doesn't the MMA gloves favor guys with high punching output equally to how bigger gloves favor clinching? Is one style worth more than another? I think you can argue that bigger gloves penalizes good defensive fundementals because you can put up a high shell and walk forward.
I think there is a place for 4oz Muay Thai, especially in term of the interest it has generated for a fairly stagnant sport. However, it is a shame that clinching is being penalized because I feel like the smaller gloves favors a more active and exciting clinch as well.
4oz gloves are good for clinchimg there are so many more options for grabbing the arm etc
Either make it bare knuckle so ppl dont punch so carelessly or leave it with big gloves n 5 rounds
I actually like this to me it’s not the gamblers but that’s fixed that problem but to me it helps with the speed
Not so sure about caring deeply one way or another, but you do make some relevant observations. You mentioned the rules for clinch and the propensity to break up clinches early and this seems to be the biggest contribute to the issues that you attribute to the smaller gloves. I see this as more of an attempt to "smooth" the training regimen of fighters and their paths through the various combat sports. For legit muay thai trainers, they would be able to make the case that their students would have MUCH less to learn on an international stage by training with them, should they want to transition to MMA. In other words, it seems like the promoters WANT the sport to be synonymous with the spirit of fighting itself as much as MMA and not seen as merely an "entertaining component" to fighting like boxing, kickboxing, wrestling, BJJ, etc.
But clinch striking is an important part of MMA, and had always been one of Muay Thai's strongest weapons against other strikers. Its diminishment is worse for the martial art.
I agree mma gloves should be kept to mma. Purely from the damage point of view. I have far too many friends facing CTE issues in the future.
Big gloves are worse than mma gloves in terms of giving CTE
IMO (which is an MMA biased opinion), if you had a striking continuum of K1 rules kickboxing at one end and One FC rules MMA at the other, the Muay Thai clinch rules are a shitty medium between the two. It's an incredibly incomplete clinch game that has to be modified significantly in an MMA ruleset (or in a real life unarmed fight for that matter). I feel as though combat sports with striking involved should be all the way in or all the way out when it comes to grappling components like the clinch. The western boxing ruleset regarding clinching looks good on paper but isn't applied that way in reality and boxers use it to punch and clutch or stall. Maybe some blend of shoot boxing/sanda/Muay Thai rules would produce the best result? That way you'd get the excitement of striking, clinching and takedowns in the most realistic and least limited way. And you'd get it without the ground fighting that seems to turn a certain demographic of fans away from MMA.
Regarding the glove size, the smaller gloves are more realistic but I would use Pride FC gloves or small fingerless gloves to avoid the eye poking issue the UFC has. I think you'd see Muay Thai competitors continue to adapt and the brawling/one punch K.O.'s should slow down.
On thing you didn't address was the change from a four sided ring to an eight sided cage (essentially a circle). I think that's had as great or an even greater impact on Muay Thai competition outcomes when compared to the clinching and glove changes. I'm in favour of a four sided cage personally. Circles only work in wrestling and that's because you give up points to your opponent for stepping out of bounds or backing up. I understand traditional Muay Thai has rules against passivity as well but I'm not sure if One FC has these rules.
I'm a fan of yours and would love to hear your critique of my opinion and thanks for always making great content!
I don't think the gloves have much to do with it, logically, having grappling gloves should make clinching better.
It's ONE's rule set about clinching.
Great points
Why put all the changes in the same dicussion? The lack in clinching isnt because of the mma gloves but because of the ruleset. In my opinion one should keep their current structure but go back to the normal muay thai rules for clinching. Like you pointed out 3 rounds for non title fights are just more entertaining than five round fights so i would keep it that way. For the mma gloves I just find the fights more aesthetic and entertaining to watch with mma gloves also because it resebles a real fight more and comes closer to the roots of muay thai. I also like the rule changes of one when it comes to the point system. In my opionin it makes zero sense to make kicks more high scoring than punches if they produce the same amount of damage so they should do it like in mma damage trumps everything. That doesnt mean that the muay thai style will die there are still hundreds of kick dominant fighters at the highest level it will just make the styles more equal.
Thanks Brotha🤙, I be curious on your perspective on Cedric Doumbe in MMA, since you fought him. Will he be as successful as Alex Pereira and Israel Adesanya 🤔
Hey bro. Time will tell. But in my opinion the debut was not what it was hyped up to be . Just a bit of a blunder catch and messy striking , nothing that I would consider to be outstanding
@@bradquakeriddell I feel like Cedric kinda always looks like that though, just kinda randomness until he knocks someone into space and you realize he did have some through line of thought it just wasn't immediately obvious.
Don’t think clinch is dying I’ve always like the idea of Muay Thai with mma gloves with in regards to the clinch ruleset issue not glove issue, could make them 6-8oz mma gloves rather than 4oz tho also 3 round for standard fights and championships being 5 like what the ufc did is my fave round system
Naw it’s not the gloves fault one fc breaks clinch fast and rewards ppl you defensively clinch
They’re are not allowing the elevation of small gloves clinch
SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK
Ruin... No
It's simply a different sport at this point. I wish extended clinching exchanges would be allowed by ONE but it still produces fantastic action. However, that should call it another name cause it ain't actually Muay Thai
Good comment bro
Mma gloves = kard chuek
This concept isn't new.
Its one fc's undermining clinch and favouring more striking.
mma gloves does not mean less muay thai essence.
An organization with kard chuek "thai fight league" , thai fight international for english commentary.
People are pigeon-holed on the fact that one fc doing mma gloves in muay thai , it isn't unique. People need to watch other muay thai organizations to know more than what one fc is putting out.
Your dragging Muay femur but when I fight especially in a big league I will show you all humbly speaking I train using very very old methods
Pretty much agree with all of your insights and appreciate you sharing them.
ONE championship MT is dumbing down a highly nuanced and intricate striking sport for the sake of “entertainment.“ The wild brawling is cool here and there, but a real fan of the sport will get bored.
Skill and technicality are defining qualities of MT and it’s honestly in danger of being eroded. Why would a modern MT fighter learn golden era skills if a KO bonus is equal to multiple purses in the stadiums?