ive seen many people claiming that deepwoken's poor networking is primarily the fault of roblox, so here's a bit more technical elaboration as to why it's not first, understand that deepwoken doesn't actually have to handle a lot server-side, the most intensive stuff it needs to do is handle networking for each player and handle the logic for every NPC, which in itself isn't super complex. second, roblox is more than capable of supporting a game like deepwoken well. games like CoR Fidelis (call of robloxia) are prime examples of how roblox can be utilized well to create games that handle performance and networking well. hell if you want a more direct example the game "fakewoken 3" is quite literally just deepwoken's combat and still performs much better than the actual game itself (though I know it's not a super fair comparison) third, the deepwoken devs have already shown to not be super competent, even looking at things that aren't networking. shrine of order stat allocation being broken/inefficient until a third party stepped in, SK's crit being weird and buggy through multiple updates, flaming scourge ignoring blocking and dodging on release, and countless other bugs show off the devs general incompetence programming wise, so it's not a stretch to imagine that the poor networking and random game breaking bugs aren't soley because of roblox. so the reason for deepwoken's servers having 20ms higher ping than other games, common 500ms ping spikes, and the copious amounts of bugs are more likely to be an issue on the devs, not roblox. i cant prove this in a comment but i'd wager that this is because DW handles alot of its visual effects and particles on the server rather than each client, which any programmer can tell you is really bad practice and even if deepwoken had flawless performance, the issue of ping directly affecting combat would still be prevalent. if a dev is reading this literally all you have to do is add a preset delay for EVERY player's inputs, basically making everyone have an effective ping of 80ms or whatever you set the delay to (subtract the delay by their ping obviously)
Mob AI and pathfinding is not cheap to compute. It requires constant adjustments and checks to be made, and can't safely be calculated on the client side. I'm willing to bet that a lot of the networking problems come from the raw amount of mobs that NEED to be present in the game at once. It isn't just a PVP game, after all.
@whupass then compute less we can theorize where the issues come from all day, but in any case, if a game that only really has to compute mobs *can't* then it's still an issue on the dev's part that they should either fix or learn from, especially if the entire game functions worse as a result
@@tobafanpage I wonder how much worse the game would function if it didn't have the intelligent and well-designed AI that it currently does? I'm sure you would be complaining about the "crappy mob AI" if that was the case. Believe me when I say that most other games of this scale (especially on roblox) have MUCH worse AI quality than Deepwoken, yet they can not support NEARLY as many mobs at once. It is a wonder the game has achieved even adequate performance, and you are making wild assumptions that the devs dropped the ball simply because you do not understand how complicated a task this is. I would be amazed if you could show me even one instance of another game achieving quality and performance to the standard of Deepwoken. Although, I agree that content has been rushed (oaths and mantras), the core systems of the game are amazing compared to the rest of the roblox platform.
I feel deepwokens' biggest problem is how unforgivening it is for new players just trying to explore. For a game that incentives and encourages exploration, deepwoken makes it almost impossible to do so - an intense learning curve, a hostile, dangerous and unfamiliar/hard to Navigate world, and unrestricted pvp are all factors making sure new players hate exploring or taking risk, I mean, who wants go to go explore when a voidwalker you have no hope of beating could swoop in a wipe you, or god forbid some random player who feels like being sadistic? New players are always stepping on eggshells, worried that if they take a step out of their safe village they'll be wiped. Because of this, new players hardly ever get the chance to gain exprience or get good at the game, leaving them horrifically unprepared for any threat that comes their way. Not to mention how a game built on trial and error with only one trial makes no sense. All in all, the game is unbelievably unfun for new players, and impossible for anyone unfamiliar with roguelite or souls games.
Even with me being quite familiar with FromSoftware's games as a whole, I still don't want to touch this game with a ten-yard pole. Everything about it screams the exact same energy I get from looking at a _fucking Tycoon game._
Yeah, I once tried to help a freshie but shortly after I got jumped, and then got wiped by the enforcer in the depths trial, really fun after spending a long time on that character
@@kilopopki4947 that wasnt the main point, i lost the character because I got jumped while helping a freshie instead of dying in pve and then getting sent to the depths
As someone who has 500 hours and has played Deepwoken since verse one I agree with a lot of you points. The game is very static and the actual gameplay is genuinely just looking things up on the wiki and applying it inside of the build creator, 95% of my gameplay is just grinding, just to lose it all to some guy with the new meta build that had a bad day and decided to wipe me in the depths for it. I wish the game would shift to a more explorative gamestyle (or i could just find a game that does everything dw does but better). The only reason I'm still playing is because I'm not boosted as shit and haven't been to Floor 2 yet, so Ethiron keeps me motivated, even though I will likely never get there and beat him without the help of a bunch of other high level players. Though I agreed with most of your arguments, I noticed at 8:30 the death of your character was used to make a point but it was greatly exaggerated. You say you lost your character because you were exploring, when really you just died in Upper (Not even on rusty health bar btw) and then edit a clip of you waking up in Fragments of Self afterwards. Even though I agreed with most of your other points and I could understand why you would say that, moments like this harshly damage the structural integrity and reliability of many of your other points you make in the video. Otherwise, great video, the visuals and audio design were some of the best I have ever seen, and the video definitely makes me reassess Deepwoken and why I've put so much time into it.
May I tempt you to join over to the Fantastic Frontier side? We have all the exploration and fun PVE-focused RPG aspects, with not nearly as much pvp (and it’s not at all about parrying or whatever, so you can actually have casual fun with it), and it’s got really whimsical and mystical themes, environments, items and mobs (not counting a couple eldritch horrors later on). And best of all, no permadeath! The game really encourages exploration and getting sweet loot. AFAIK There’s a mild rivalry between Fantastic Frontier and Deepwoken in terms of “Roblox’s Favorite Soulslike RPG” and I much prefer the Frontier, personally. Plus with a massive overhaul update inching towards the finish line after many years of no updates, it’s a good time to check the game out :)
I feel like Deepwoken would be so much better if it were a soulsborne than a roguelike. Builds would then be defined by the effort it takes for people to explore and what attributes that cater to most instead of leaving everything to chance. At least in a soulsborne fashion players would explore Deepwoken's needlessly huge map with about only about half of the areas actually being an encounter zone.
It wants to be a souls borne/ rpg so bad but since Monad studios made it it HAS to be permadeath. And they have no idea if they want it to be a rogue like or rpg. Shit sucks
thats what I always thought they should do. they left most of the game being pretty much wastelands for no reasons. even one of the main places for powerful factions are practically empty. if they just make more things happen in those empty spaces or even just straight up shrink the map it wouldve been way better than this.
I've always thought this and even play the game because it feels like a Soulsborne with more Rogue-like tendencies (Progressing fast) which if they played into those aspects of the game it could be STUPID fucking good, like Voidwalkers could literally be invaders, they have so much stuff like that which could be effortlessly blended into a better more flushed out n' heartfelt game.
The best thing that could possibly happen to deepwoken is the developers finally making up their mind on what kind of game they want to make in the first place. Is it a open world RPG or is it a Roguelike. Sitting between them does absolutely nothing but hurt the game. PvP + permadeath with no restrictions whatsoever is singularly the worst idea I've ever seen in a game.
They're leaning more towards open world PVP already You have to actively try to wipe a build if you know what your doing and anything risky is a choice Only time permadeath is really a factor is if you're a new player
@sionalinbounder9119 People have been saying "you have to actively try to wipe a build" since release. It just isn't true. As long as pvp permadeath is in the game, wiping your build can be completely out of your hands unless you're able to take on 3+ players at once. They're sitting on the fence as long as permadeath is in the game, plain and simple.
@@theoreticalexistence9630 No one in deepwoken is jumping you in the depths as of recent If it's to the point it's a issue find a small server The DW playerbase isn't aggressive towards everyone in the depths
@o2428 and rogue was an absolutely godawful game, far worse than deepwoken in EVERY aspect. The progression in rogue was abysmal and made the community far more toxic than it had any right to be. Sitting on the fence has done nothing but hurt both games, deepwoken to a lesser degree because its less egregious and miserable than rogue (not a high bar to cross). Just because deepwoken is better than rogue doesn't mean its good.
@@mysticphantom9870 switching platforms is not an option. not only would they lose a bunch of players, but the amount of resources that would take is staggering. but i'd have to agree that roblox is definitely a limiting factor, its a sad position to be stuck in.
ngl the fact that in lore, there's actually a calendar if you press tab and hundreds of years have passed since release YET NOTHING HAS ADVANCED, AND NOTHING HAS CHANGED POLITICALLY, AND NO DRIFTLANDS HAVE MOVED OUT OR CAME IN, AND NO NEW DISCOVERIES HAVE BEEN MADE? if there was actual technological progression as the game continued on it would be more fun as it would make deepwoken look like a real, dying world, however it completely breaks the immersion when it's been 200 years and nothing has changed. also the reaction you get to losing is wildly different than other better roguelike/lite games, like FTL, where after I lose I feel like "ohh that was a fun run, I wanna do it again! but with a different ship maybe, what should I go with?", and it doesn't put me off from playing FTL, meanwhile deepwoken I'm thinking "Fuck this game bro" and I will proceed to stop playing deepwoken for 3 weeks out of straight putting off progressing a new character because IT ISN'T FUN, EVEN AS A NON-SKILLED PLAYER
Agreed look at other rouge like games where even if you die, you have fun even while dying in deepwoken it's extremely grindy with barely any rewards after getting to certain levels you might be able to keep a thing or two but thats mostly it
Glad u mentioned the art direction changing so drastically. Early deep and layer 1 release had their own really distinct style and even though it was simple it had its charm. But I’m guessing after devs like k1 joined the picture the game became a lot more generic anime slop in style. It isn’t garbage or anything but it def is worse than initial deep imo. I mean just look at some of the new mantras and weapons coming out rn, the only thing k1 knows how to pump out is aba slop. Probably not entirely his doing but 100% a large majority.
I really agree with it, everyone got tired of anime looking style It just NOT fitting deepwoken style Watching the oldest dev preview of the game old combat system much more janky and "alive" unlike now
Reason why it drives people away (like me ) Seriously though they gave this little game a price tag of that much robux... Like fr?? That should have already been a sign. I can make lots of cool outfits and stuff for my avatar with all that instead of this hellhole of a game that this video shows to me i should never touch
@@kqlolll2618 im gonna assume you're on the younger side. 5 dollars isn't "that much robux" with the time the developers put into the game. If only the community wasn't disgusting.
I actually really like deepwoken's pve gameplay, when I die it feels like I learned something about a monster or area, the danger levels etc, in terms of the rpg part of Deepwoken it's not completely terrible. it's mainly the pvp part that is painful, as that seems to be the part the devs are focusing more on. I could be having the time of my life in the game if I was not constantly combat logging at the sight of another player.
Attacking a monster or a player or anything really, learning about it, dying, and repeating until you win COULD have been a great loop for deepwoken but instead they tacked on "start over progression completely for the next 5 hours lol" on the end.
Yeah I LOVE playing by myself and would be on the game so often if I could just play the game unbothered which is why I've always felt it'd be better as a Soulsborne like the only it can be fun for me is if I get on at like 8pm for the small servers.
Yeah I honestly play deepwoken for the pve, all my builds are pve based and its what I enjoy doing the most. it seems that 90% of the issues with this game revolves around the pvp combat in my opinion its pretty lackluster and unbalanced but I dont blame the devs for being able to do much about it because at the end of the day it is a roblox game. I most of the time go deepbound and am pretty good at susing out if someone is going to try and grip me or ruin my prog so I tend to log and run which saves me a good deal of time. People who complain about the permadeath I can understand but once you get better at the game it becomes alot less of an issue, most of my builds tend to end when I decide to wipe them myself or die to someone on purpose, I think some people are just stupid and die to other players because they are not aware of their surroundings and refuse to learn what this games playerbase likes to do
@@deli8871 I've always been a firm believer that if your game demands players to quit playing to avoid certain problems with no actual counterplay, that is a flaw in game design that needs to be fixed IMMEDIATELY.
hey, programmer and game designer here. I have a lot of experience with monad's products and can't enjoy deepwoken for some of the mentioned (and other) reasons. I really appreciate your perspectives, video production, and knowledgability about the subjects, and have seen your breakdown comment on performance. no secret that deepwoken is poorly optimized but I wanted to mention a few things. roblox's standard for replication is like two decades old and they're only now starting to adopt things like unreliable remotes. the roblox servers do have a ton of trouble supporting games like deepwoken. of course not only is ping the input delay, but the transfer time of all packets, so you're also seeing a past game state at all times. this means it will take physically longer to process the real gamestate and take longer to register into the game after your action, making some capabilities LITERALLY impossible. this is the root issue of designing competitive games on roblox's architecture.
you've summed it up very well and very calmly. But while some of the game design can be poor and the game is laggy, the lack of devs that work mainly on deepwoken is a massive issues. the fact that they are constantly patching and adding to the game makes fixing things like combat hard. you have also probably experienced it but, the amount of Roblox bugs that I've faced that have taken me weeks to fix and mentally prepare for, actually made me want to break my laptop. the main issue is that the devs add content to the game according to the loud speakers, the ones who complain about the game, the ones who gank and sit on the game non stop. for the other people who play the game, it appears as if the devs are working against them as their builds worsen and other builds become game breaking.
deepwoken USED to be a rogue like. the main driving factors i think that ruined where the playerbase , a good example is that a dev got harassed and pinged so much for changed a talent card with +5 hp to no hp - it was changed back, another one was exploiters would always ruin exploration and zart , one of the builders never really wanted to add neat things so he gave up . the playerbase DOESNt want this game to be a rogue like. its both that the game benefits nothing from permadeath and that the community is just weird
No, it was never a rogue like. People will scream about how verse 1 was harder or more hardcore. And in some respect, that’s true. It took even longer to progress, about 4x more, was a complete slog, no qol, and constant pvp was encouraged through luck and practically needed for a good build. If you like this sort of game, great, good on you. But that’s not what a rogue like is. It was still just a MMORPG with permadeath just randomly stuck onto it, even more so since the progression was even longer.
@@wood5596 People will scream that rogue lineage was hardcore and a "true" roguelite when even that's a stretch. Rogue genuinely had such a weak base, the "lineage" part was barely existent besides your race, spawning with mana, unlockable races and like 2 artifacts (heirloom was when the lineage part peaked lmfao). The rogue part at least was justified by the classes, which I think are the strongest part of rogue lineage. The class system truly allowed for unique playstyles and movesets, which in turn made the stupid stun/ragdoll based combat a little more diverse (hence people only play the game for the combat now). Deepwoken lacked any form of class definition besides your weapon, attunement and oath (which allowed for so many combinations that there was no identity). Even attunement paths feel very inconsequential, you're still playing the same way overall. Rogue lineage became a pathetic game, and deepwoken tried to emulate it. Hence, it had a rotten foundation.
I started playing deepwoken at release with access to enchants which were impossible to get (tainted sorrow) and dupes, which is why I was really interested in playing it. A couple of weeks ago I was interested in the mechanics of silence ability of Silentheart and I decided after a huge period of time to return to this game, and how terrible it is in terms of combat. you simply cannot win some matchups due to the fact that your build is simply weaker against a certain matchup. Constant ping spikes, and unfortunately this happened not only to me, but also to my friends with whom I played all the time. I hope DW developers someday reads at least something about game optimization.
Maybe don't force me to pay for a glorified slot machine that resets my progress due to me having slightly worse luck than the 35 year old no life@@daq-ua
you have two options, make up a new build and it gets wiped by the guy with the meta build, or make the meta build and have it get nerfed in a week and make a new one.@@daq-ua
one thing I noticed as a relatively new player is that I can never bring myself to try to do layer 2. There is so much new content and bosses I could fight but it feels that I would need to open the wiki every 2 mins and without it i'd die some stupid way that could've been easily avoided. Also Layer 2 has so much content and kinda cool bosses other then small attack variety, but the rewards arent that great so the risk of wiping is never worth it so i'll plobaly never get to experince those bosses without a maxed out friend helping me along the way. If they could change the risk, or the rewards, or not needing the wiki to beat layer 2 or a video open on the side, I feel it could be alot better. Many things in layer 2 just seem not neccasary and confusing and litteraly impossible to figure out without wiping many times or a friend, or of course the wiki. Bosses are pretty much required to be fought many times over, think if they made a boss that you had to learn the attacks mid-fight (of course the attacks can't be too confusing) and then you progress only having to fight him once (maybe to unlock a ability or progress the story}. I don't think anyone thought there first time fighting chaser was boring, because you don't know what to expect and your always on edge. That dopamine you get when you beat him is worth the terrifying close calls, but of course after the first time fighting him you know what to expect and now its just a battle against ping not a demonic blood lord. The ping affects gameplay so much that its hard to fight any boss without getting a random lag spike that makes it impossible to do anything, but watch in terror. One thing holding back the bosses is they always rely on parrying or dodges and it's never unique exsept for some rare acations. I wish the bosses had more phases, and I mean an actual new phase not just the same attacks again but the ceiling is now gone. Like imagine your fighting a new boss with your friends and you finally got his health to 0 after a close call, so you start to celebrate with your friends until a cutscene plays and bro grows massive wings and health is back to 100. Of course this would only ever work in the overworld cuz who would ever fight a boss without there research with the risk of wiping. Deepwoken should do something simmilar to "Lore Game" where they activly discurage spoilers. The lore of Deepwoken opens up for some AMAZING boss ideas, yet its like they forgot about the fun of fighting new bosses and now are instead trying to make the fastest way to gain the best weapons for experienced players. Things like health poisons would be cool for overworld if they where completly reworked to be simillar to dark souls and sekiro. This would make the risk way less and way safer for new players to explore. They need to reward people who explore more somehow. sorry for spelling mistakes im too lazy to fix them Mhvghchvjbkyfiukghvggbcvas
just realized how messy this comment is oof, anyways I only started playing like 5 months ago so I may be wrong about a lot of stuff so feel free to comment if I got something wrong
Heres the same comment but you wont die trying to read it One thing I noticed as a relatively new player is that I can never bring myself to try to do layer 2. There is so much new content and bosses I could fight but it feels that I would need to open the wiki every 2 mins and without it i'd die some stupid way that could've been easily avoided. Also Layer 2 has so much content and kinda cool bosses other then small attack variety, but the rewards arent that great so the risk of wiping is never worth it so i'll plobaly never get to experince those bosses without a maxed out friend helping me along the way. If they could change the risk, or the rewards, or not needing the wiki to beat layer 2 or a video open on the side, I feel it could be alot better. Many things in layer 2 just seem not neccasary and confusing and litteraly impossible to figure out without wiping many times or a friend, or of course the wiki. Bosses are pretty much required to be fought many times over, think if they made a boss that you had to learn the attacks mid-fight (of course the attacks can't be too confusing) and then you progress only having to fight him once (maybe to unlock a ability or progress the story}. I don't think anyone thought there first time fighting chaser was boring, because you don't know what to expect and your always on edge. That dopamine you get when you beat him is worth the terrifying close calls, but of course after the first time fighting him you know what to expect and now its just a battle against ping not a demonic blood lord. The ping affects gameplay so much that its hard to fight any boss without getting a random lag spike that makes it impossible to do anything, but watch in terror. One thing holding back the bosses is they always rely on parrying or dodges and it's never unique exsept for some rare acations. I wish the bosses had more phases, and I mean an actual new phase not just the same attacks again but the ceiling is now gone. Like imagine your fighting a new boss with your friends and you finally got his health to 0 after a close call, so you start to celebrate with your friends until a cutscene plays and bro grows massive wings and health is back to 100. Of course this would only ever work in the overworld cuz who would ever fight a boss without there research with the risk of wiping. Deepwoken should do something simmilar to "Lore Game" where they activly discurage spoilers. The lore of Deepwoken opens up for some AMAZING boss ideas, yet its like they forgot about the fun of fighting new bosses and now are instead trying to make the fastest way to gain the best weapons for experienced players. Things like health poisons would be cool for overworld if they where completly reworked to be simillar to dark souls and sekiro. This would make the risk way less and way safer for new players to explore. They need to reward people who explore more somehow. sorry for spelling mistakes im too lazy to fix them Mhvghchvjbkyfiukghvggbcvas
The devs seem to refuse to learn from other devs. Hell, if I'm not mistaken, HOURS' ai is fully available, it doesn't fit everything, sure, but it's good and it's there to learn from.
HOURS ai doesn't parry block or dodge it literally just uses moves and it's a singleplayer game so they can do everything on the client if the my want it's not the same
he didnt mean fucking steal the whole code and paste it onto npcs, he meant for them to actually LEARN HOW TO PROGRAM from looking at how it works instead of just throwing shit at the wall@@niro-007
@@RevenantNeverDies Hours ai is so simple if anything deepwoken's is more complex with them being able to parry and coding fighting AIs is not hard, I've made a good one myself Also don't go around talking shit about the devs ability to program if you don't even know an inch of Lua. I highly doubt you know the amount of work and organisation it takes to make a real game.
Deadass 20 seconds in and this video is already looking glorious. Don't know who u are and I've never seen a vid from u in my life but ik for sure im subbing to see what u make next. Good job king
Hope this blows up, video was really well edited and your points make sense I love deepwoken and I'd hate to see it die but it's not looking good at all these days
Let’s be honest it’s not gonna die any time soon. The player count is at an all time high What IS lost is the actual direction of the game and charm they had while making and releasing it. Expect more k1 Anime slop cause that’s all that guy knows how to make. Ragoozer is already on another game.
@@wood5596 I seem to have not worded what a meant properly, but I agree 100% my comment hasn't aged well at all though, considering the tweaks made to help out the high ping players and the actually original new content they added (maestro boss)
Except those "smart people" have no coding skills or experience in game development and aren't the ones actually making the game. Said game also has 30k players.
@@incription Show me where I said "you or any of those people cant have an opinion/critique a game". I simply what I think. He gave his opinion and I gave mine. If you're illiterate, you shouldn't be acting like a Voice of Authority. (Talking to you)
You made it seem like the person who posted the video's points are irrelevant because he isnt a game dev or a programmer (which he is btw). Maybe you could be more clear?@@Sc5ch
@@incription I said smart people, meaning as a general collective, not targeting him specifically. There are a lot of people who indeed don't know half of what they're saying or at least why things are the way they are. "M1s are unpunishable" Maybe cuz unlike other fighting games, M1s aren't true and don't lead to true combos that deal half or more of your health.
For any smartasses: He's not a permafreshie, he displays maxed out builds with oaths and enchanted/legendary weapons and displays fighting as a voidwalker as well. Secondly there is yellow text when discussing the XP and progression that states he does not care if you have some stupid 1 hour max build method.
1. having a maxed out build doesn't mean he's not a permafreshie, i've seen tons of maxed out players that don't know how to press the f key, being a voidwalker doesn't maker you a non permafreshie either, since I've fought so many voidwalkers that can't do anything but jump people for their life.
@@Dumm0ut A freshie is a state of progression, what you're referring to is lack of skill. They are not the same. An easy example, I'm not gonna look at someone in fully decked out equipment and say "freshie", they're just a bad player.
@@urdad7349 yea that's how i know you're not a actual deepwoken player, if you even played deepwoken for more than 100 hours you'd know what a permafreshie is. Freshie and permafreshie are 2 different things
doing 10 ferrymans every time i want to progress with the simple flaw on a voidwalker slot makes me want to voluntarily sit on an electric chair and press the button myself
Honestly deepwokens bosses would be fine if it wasn't the fact that retrying them didn't send u back to a town islands away or sending you straight to the depths. like im more discouraged going to the depths than the exp or loot from primadon, especially when i have no friends to at least help me fight some of them or make the grinding more fun
I agree with your intitial points about combat a lot. The gameplay is good, but its too fast and relies on reaction timing too much. Fights are much more enjoyable when theyre slower paced for example two heavy weapon freshies fighting each other. I remember when the game first came out it was so fun fighting people with just a sword, with strategic feinting and ranging, now it just feels like spamming moves and tanking hits faster than your opponents
yeah i'd rather the game be m1 based than it being mantra based. i recently progressed a no mantra build, voidwalked with nothing but a darksteel gs, and it was some of the most fun i'd ever had with deepwokens combat. it really opened my eyes as to how much worse the combat got from verse 1 to 2
@@koenigseggpeta4360 the combat is fine the builds are not, early verse 2 still had that m1 based fight but then they started to gut no attunement and buff mantras (songchant, prophet cloak and the 90 int talents)
@@babaloons4887 One of the problems are that more mantras/moves should have higher parry stun example: shattered katana crits first swing doesn't even have parry stun so yeah
Honestly if they want to fix these things they’ve pretty much got to rework most of the game. And it has quite a big player base who wouldn’t really like that and enjoy the game as it is I’d recommend making a new project instead.
@@Danyardrat not worth all the drama tbh, the community will go fucking wild if they start working on something like deepwoken 2 or whatever, some of deep devs started working on a small game recently and people started to say a bunch of shit already ☠
@@babaloons4887Because Roblox's community, Deepwoken in _particular,_ is made solely of drooling baboons. They don't even count as human, I'll be frank with you. Every single one of them, instead of actually being _aware_ of the game's flaws, instead vouches for blindly defending the game and actually going on manhunts when someone speaks out against the hivemind. Looks like Germany has some competition.
Glad i'm seeing a lot of the problems with the game being brought up. To me, the largest problem with Deepwoken's identity - it lost it entirely. Deepwoken used to be a gritty, lore-focused RPG, already on the decline with that identity comparing release vs. the direct. The direction that deepwoken has taken is shocking, honestly. They've completely separated themselves from the gritty, slow and calculated combat RPG with perma death and mystery to now literally just being GPO in Ragoozer's universe. The progression is unbearable, the lore is cool but never explored, the quests are disappointing, the faction interaction is non-existent, exploration is disappointing, and now they're introducing Domain Expansions, Anime Mantras like Sukuna's Flame Arrow, and Battle Royale? It truly feels like they've let the wrong people into the dev team and the wrong people influence the direction of the game. That's just my perspective on it, though. They might have always wanted the game to end up like this, but it never seemed like it from the Direct and all the hollow promises they made.
Yeah, I've been telling people the game having permadeath doesn't work in the slightest especially on Roblox with all its jank (Ping, flinging, physics, ect.) and it's just wasting our time so they can essentially fill their pockets. The fact one little mistake can kill you is also stupid as it's kind of hard to learn what to do in a fight when you die as soon as smth goes wrong. (You don't even know what went wrong most the time tho)
@@aank8335 (Upcoming readable and actually comprehensible comment. I know how you Deepwoken players hate to read something aside from "Power 20 bell bell Depths Ethiron Wipe Freshie", so I placed this warning here just for you! Aren't I just so kind and caring?) The fact they exist in the slightest still makes it stick out like a sore thumb. Yes, it could be worse. It's only _hot garbage,_ right!? At least the entire dumpster isn't on fucking fire, RIGHT!? NO! It's still a cash-grab anyways. It doesn't matter if they drain your wallet slower, they're still only after your _money,_ not your actual care and love. Now, if this were applied to anything else, like Destiny 2 for example, you'd still jump in the creators' shit because they're deliberately going for a cash-grab. _Why is Deepwoken different in any regard, then?_ It doesn't matter who or what makes it. If it's a cash-grab, there isn't any excuse for that. ...Though, if you want to keep bending yourself over backwards for pretty old Deepwoken, be my guest. When the game dies, don't come crying to _anyone_ about your lost money. That's _your_ financial decisions. That's _your_ money (or, knowing these people, your parents' money) down the drain. You spent it, and the only person you'll be able to blame in the end is _yourself._
@@axain7784Actually yeah youre right, my bad It makes even more sense that it is a crash grab when you remember that the devs dont play the game and wont change the weekly updates schedule that is taking the soul out of the content lol
@@axain7784Deepwoken has sincerely made me lose all trust in their shitty dev team. Especially after Rogue Lineage (being a later player before deepwoken's release); which charged you for gambling your base race which could ultimately make or break your build, had a community I'd personally say as toxic as rust because of the abundance of unattended crotchspawn, and the fact the only way you could feasibly play the game is by logging out extensively when you're progressing or flat out being in a guild that would abuse sheer number of members alone to allow others to progress. Deepwoken, albeit an improvement to development compared to Rogue still falls into a similar trap of the previous game in terms of game design to the point where it re-cultivated the community from Rogue Lineage which finally drove me away from Monad's games and anything they happen to create.
On the trial of one thing, ADRET, that shit is broken with it, wanna skip HALF your progression? Go adret with the autodidact boon, you legit exit at level 10 meaning if you have a build that shrines at let's say lvl 12-13, you flat out skipped almost all of the grind pre-shrine, and you only gotta prog way less than half the time it'd take usually
@@AmA-bw9px idk how you'd "patch" something that anit a bug, there was a similar thing where you could use training gear in the trial of one to get extra stats, but that was patched
Yes, you make skip out on a bit of progression, but it's literally just a small bit considering the fact that early game does not require as much exp. Towards lvl 13 - 15 you'll actually see an exp decline if you are not actually doing anything. Besides, people complain about progression being too long, and when the devs actually give you an option to make it faster as long as you know the basics of pve, people like you complain about "skipping half the progression".
This vid is mostly good but here's some things I noticed in the combat section: 1. Verse 2 is supposed to feel strange and otherworldly. I mean it literally uses synths in the soundtrack. This doesn't help the fact that verse 2 is the most formulaic part of the game and I agree with the overall point of aesthetic degradation but the aesthetic of layer 2 itself is fine. 2. The guy at 13:22 was not "forced to dodge". You feinted and then your opponent dodged before you actually did anything. This exact exchange is the primary example of of somebody getting read/outplayed (which has nothing to do with reaction times). If your opponent had faster reactions, then he would've just rolled earlier and still got hit by the move. You also said that the skill ceiling is too low but this is a prime example of something that sets low elo players apart from high elo ones. 3. 13:38 You complained about combat being less about timing your parried and more about just parrying when the opponent swings (which makes you more susceptible to feints but that's another topic) and then you complain about a mechanic that punishes you for timing your parried too late/spamming block. 4. 13:47 All of the things you are complaining about are failsafes. Getting your block hit punishes you because you're supposed to parry or dodge. If you get feinted and miss a parry, you can dodge, if you dodge too early (like the guy in the previous clip) you can take the hit then parry/block, if you parry too early you can vent. All of these things exist so that you do still get punished but to varying degrees depending on how well you can react. Things like chip damage and certain talents do negate these to an extent, but not fully and you have to sacrifice other things in order to use them. Collapsed lung, for example, prevents venting but only in certain cases and it takes 100 points. Chip damage bypasses block, but not fully and you need to trade off things like damage and penetration. Point being: you are supposed to parry, but if you don't, then there are other opportunities to lessen the punishment. 5. You said earlier in the video that 8 hours is too long for permadeath but there are a plethora of popular roguelikes that take longer than/similar to 8 hours per run. Overall you made a lot of good points but I don't think that Deep's gameplay is inherently contradictory/flawed. I think if they actually focused on adding new areas, bosses, enemies etc (even small stuff) as opposed to flame mantra #83, it could actually maintain that aspect of adventure and exploration even for longtime players. I also don't feel like the community coming together to share info goes against the spirit of the game since that's exactly what made it intriguing on release (punchee and agamatsu needs delete their fuckin channel tho it fr pisses me off)
ty for ur feedback but i feel like i should emphasize that, like i said in the video, the points about getting your parry baited and the punishment for mistiming a parry aren't the inherent problems with the combat, it's the fact that those are the *only* forms of punishment due to offensive tools being very safe. the point about me catching that guy with the multihitting move isn't really about me reading/outplaying him as much as it's me feinting, him using his parry, being forced to roll, and then him getting clipped because he roll cancelled. there is an element of skill/knowledge to know to either full dodge or block in that situation, but it's so small and binary that once you learn that situation it's effectively "solved", which is why i feel there's almost nothing to learn about the combat once you hit the level of competency (the skill floor)
@@tobafanpagewdym that's the "only form of punishment"? If someone messes up and u hit them up can combo into it and if they're good they'll get out of the combo it's simple. The guy you clipped in the video could've just parried out of roll cancel if he paid attention to ur animations, or if he had ghost he would've dodged all of it.
W yap session this is more or less my critiques on the vid aswell blud was a little too derivative too also i cant 100% tell if the point of this was moreso on the "shitting on the devs" side or the "ultimately comes from a place of love for the game and the hope that it improves" side, if it were to lean more positive, i can't really blame bro for being pessimistic and jaded
Lmao hes right yall the devs gave zero shits that the games network will literally make the game unplayable. Good devs either come up with a solution, or build around it. The devs did neither. They overload the roblox servers and the game suffers as a result. But hey, some people will play it anyway and they'll still make money!
@@Goofyahhlofi Yeah ik. Then u don't make that type of game on roblox. Devs didn't care tho because they'll make money from the rogue lineage audience.
This was a very interesting video! Though i disagree that the game isnt fun, at least for now as a relatively newer player, i understand all your points. Though id prefer if you better incorporated those smaller points you displayed as text into your script or make them last longer or something. Its a bit of a hassle to rewind and pause to read them all.
@the_atoms5242 what does that have to do with anything I said? I've been playing long enough to wipe like 75 times, I ain't afraid of a voidwalker. Even if they do win, it's just experience to get better
This video is amazing, thank you, editing is perfect, and I really like hearing peoples thoughts on stuff, especially when its so obvious but yet not so obvious. Great job man :)
Remember when ferryman was bugged out and gave absolutely no bell progress, but when they fixed it they also simultaneously added a voidsea mechanic that made him inaccessible 80% of the time, and only a WEEK AFTER they removed it?
the game punishes you for exploring and god forbid pressing the interact button and rewards you for stealing/following a yt tutorial. and everything you mentioned is something they control something they can change, what about ping what about the fact that roblox is a shitty platform, what about the community(I know you touched on it in chime but this doesn't scratch the surface of how sad the DWK community is). it's a real shame since playing this game especially early release weeks were some of the most fun I've had in roblox.
Okay I went over the progression portion of the video and I have some things to say but first let me just say this is the first video I've seen on your channel and you have this really unique style of doing video essays that makes me feel nostalgic for some reason, it's like something I would have seen airing at 3AM on some random ass cable channel when I was sick and in middle school. Honestly it's a great vibe and I'm definitely gonna sub to see more of what you got cookin'. However that doesn't mean I entirely agree with you. I'd like to highlight a few key points related to the Trial of One, the goal of Deepwoken, new player experience, exploration, and options for reworking the game. Starting with the Trial of One my problem with it has largely been fixed, the lone warrior origin pretty much unlocks itself now and since it's not as hidden as it used to be it's no longer a secret power boost and more of a test to allow you to skip redoing areas and enemy types over and over again. For example if you're efficiently farming lower Erisia you'll probably mostly be fighting Bandits (glorified parry practice), Megalodaunts, Golems, and Angels. The trial of one's first half has you doing just that, you fight enemies in the order you're supposed to learn to fight them in the game but it's thrown at you far more rapidly. The Trial of One is more of a placement test than anything. Moving on to the goal of Deepwoken I have to disagree that it's exclusively about character creation both for personal reasons and from who I've met playing the game. Deepwoken and Realm of the Mad God are extremely similar games in the way that they work, except that Deepwoken is a Roblox game and has PvP. Some people might want to get every oath at least once, others might be lorenuts and go around everywhere finding every piece of information on the world the game has to offer to piece everything together, some might exclusively focus on climbing the PvP ladder, and some might focus on speedrunning to power 20 or through a questline, and those are all vastly different goals. For me I just want to be able to get every oath and beat every major boss and if I continue the game from there I'll focus on getting faster at acquiring the oaths and then focus on PvP and build creation because that's the kind of player I am. But every now and then even someone like me will slow down and go lore hunting for funsies, or talk to a random NPC just to see what happens. Those are issues that primarily plague veterans of the game, what about the newbies? I agree the new player experience is awful, it's not just that you're thrust in a world you need to explore but you're thrust into that world with no purpose, no final goal. Even in the most comparable game to Deepwoken in my experience (RotMG) they tell you "Oryx is a bad guy, mess 'em up." Giving you even a small goal like pushing you towards a questline featuring a boss would be a HUGE upgrade from just throwing you into a world and sayin' "go nuts." I actually really like exploring in Deepwoken because I could care less if my characters wipe but that's just me. The main argument to be made here is that people will explore new areas for a variety of reasons and I'll list a few: bragging rights, hunting for lore, acquiring something new added to the game if applicable, or just scratching that itch for new content to play through (boredom). I do agree that I wish there were more elements of exploration in the game though as I spent a few hours exploring and I've seen everything besides layer 2 floor 2. I don't like the idea of removing permadeath as I feel that is part of what makes Deepwoken meaningful and special but your idea for rising and sinking islands so long as some locations are kept relatively/generally consistent? Beautiful. Additionally implementing things like dungeons that randomize with more bosses and challenges could be super cool too! Could you imagine a RAID in Deepwoken? Currently the closest thing you have to that is hellmode in the depths. Finally and most pointedly I want to talk about the game's programming and networking a bit as a game dev myself, granted I haven't released any games because half way through working on them I improve a lot and scrap the game entirely, bad habit I know. I agree with your claim that Deepwoken should keep more interactions client sided, especially since for smaller enemies such as bandits collaborative elements of combat have more to do with both of you dealing damage to or staggering the bandit and those states could be kept track of separately and positions could be synced more subtly later. What I don't like about your comment is the idea that this is extremely easy to do because when switching things between client and server side there are elements of your game to consider like: Do I need all enemies to be in the same position for all players all the time? If not how often should I try to resync these positions and values? Should bosses be more server sided due to the fact that they are a more collaborative element of the game? Does that imply bigger creatures should be kept server side? And those are just all of the basic game design decisions, I'm actually pretty bad at network code and couldn't imagine keeping track of all of that and interfacing that with ROBLOX SERVERS. I think it is valid to say the developers are not skilled enough to pull this off because clearly the game still has strange lag spikes and performs wildly inconsistently, but I do think it's unfair to say "just do this thing" when it may have already been considered and either significantly impacted gameplay or performance. For example in your pinned comment "literally all you have to do is add a preset delay for EVERY player's inputs, basically making everyone have an effective ping of 80ms or whatever you set the delay to (subtract the delay by their ping obviously)" I personally haven't tried implementing this into my games but it sounds very similar to the concept of delta time (client sided, deals with lag) which is probably already built in to the game and if it isn't frankly it really should be. Optimizing these things in theory sounds easy enough to do but it can get really messy depending on the scale you implement it on. God damn I yapped a lot. I am not rereading all of that for errors feel free to call me out and I'll edit this :)
1. I love your editing style. It's actually *incredible.* 2. Monad Studios has been struggling with these problems since Rogue Lineage, and Deepwoken was supposed to "fix" the bad parts of Rogue. But it didn't. And you point this out---you point out that the game design, the *lineart,* is neglected, while the balancing and other *details* are revamped and revamped and revamped, and that leads to a blotchy, colorful and vomit-looking painting. Thank you for pointing out the flaws in their game design.
what sucks the most is that deepwoken easily has hundreds of hours of content if you play it blindly, not accounting replayability, and even just the removal of permadeath could solve a ton of issues regarding the game because you would atleast have great opportunities to learn from losses instead of just straight up getting your character wiped
i feel like one of my issues with deepwoken is voidwalkers i'm a primarily pve based player (so i am just not good at pvp at all) but i still get jumped by voidwalkers and lose a life it feels like im constantly being jumped by voidwalkers and to be honest just players who don't gain anything at all, and my friend recently got deepwoken, and complained how people get punished for learning the game by wiping and progressing feels like a chore right now and i hope it doesn't stay that way because i actually used to enjoy deepwoken one of the other problems i see with deepwoken is the ocean like the ships are unbearably buggy and slow, and the actual sea is just drop dead boring like you stated at 8:20, i've seen so many freshies who have absolutely no clue how to get into trial, not to mention the doors just don't work, which because i feel like if youre a new player you'd think the cathedral gates in the depths would open instead of having to get on the buildings and climb the wall i really liked this video i've been feeling off about deepwoken for some time, but i've never been able to really put it into words also the intro goes hard ty man
i've been waiting for a video like this to come out for the longest time, because for that same amount of time, whenever deepwoken is brought up, i always rant so hard about how it is a fundamentally flawed game on a conceptual level. as you said, you're not supposed to monotonously spend so much absurd lengths of time just for the chance to have it ripped away from you at any moment. there's a reason why games with lengthy progression, like elden ring, don't feature something so stupid. plus, as you also said, roguelikes INCENTIVISE death. death has genuine benefits, and starting fresh is ALWAYS fun. i'm always convinced that the permadeath and rampant pvp (alongside how flawed the fighting system is) is deeply rooted in the fact that roblox is an unnecessarily and horrifically toxic cesspool when it comes to ANYTHING competitive. you won't see as much genuine animosity and uncalled-for rudeness anywhere else than in roblox, and it really shows. take a look at the fgc, the community that arguably knows healthy competition the best. nobody normal there is talking trash because everybody has been through the same experiences and WANT to help other people with what they're struggling with. so, therefore, i firmly believe that permadeath exists solely as a tool to gloat and make others feel miserable.
A lot of the balancing issues comes from the fact that they do weekly updates (and they only work on the game when they want) so they don't have time to test everything since they need to do bug fixes and stuff, and nerfs/buffs from the last few updates So this means that your build will be overpowered for a week, horrible for a week or 2, and then MAYBE it becomes decent but by then your being destroyed by the new op stuff which follows the same loop
To be completely honest: For removing Permadeath, I thought up one concept years ago. It was called Depths Chain (or something else I forgot), but when you died in the Depths, instead of wiping, you were chained down as a spirit, unable to resurface. Here is when wiping would be an option by speaking to Yun'shul (or something else), but alternatively, you could search for a key to break your chains, or pass the chains on to another player of equal power. There was more to it than that, but the basic premise still stands. I've been saying this for YEARS.
15:10 implementing a system where u cant block or anything after a feint isnt too hard js get the animation length when the m1 is played ``` local AnimationLength : number = M1Animation.Length ``` when the plr feints save the time position of the animation at where they feinted ``` StoppedTimePosition = M1Animation.TimePosition ``` have a blooean value get set to true when a move becomes lethal otherwise stay false and when the animation ends just check if the move was lethal before it got cancelled and add end lag of however much time was left in the animation like so ``` if not Hit then local RemaningTime = AnimationLength - StoppedTimePosition task.wait(RemaningTime) end ``` rlly dont understand wut part of this is so hard to implement that they havent done it already lol
Getting paid to do something you enjoy actually makes you enjoy it much less, there have been studies on this and I can speak from personal experience. I enjoy the progression, and I'm not even good at it, because I play the game to have fun instead of to make some crazy build or make money or whatever. When you focus on the end goal too much the journey feels like an obstacle, even though the journey is the most important part to enjoy.
@hroud7318 its not very well designed of the game to make you to go *very far* to teleport somewhere. and even then the teleports in hive only got like 2 actual place to teleport to and teleporting back to hive requires you to go run around and find another shrine anyway (which takes almost just as much time).
im half in the video and i just want to say huge thanks to you bro, i never could express my thoughts well, especially abt something complex like games and explain why i hate them, but this video does everything for me and i love it. you deserve a like buddy
Also something abt chain of perfection. In theory, it sounds like a good idea. Give endgame players a reward for being good at pve. But, almost everyone ive seen play this game got it from sone sort of cheese method rather than actually trying to get the talent that way.
i think this is mostly because of how bad the bosses in this game are, theres really no way to enjoy the boss fights because they're very simple and really easy to learn.. after all most bosses only have 4 moves or sometimes even 3, the bosses don't have any interesting mechanic on their fights to at least make up for the lack of moves, I think a good example is sekiro (Which is the game the combat of deep is based on) No Hitting Isshin actually brings joy to the player because of the gameplay and how the boss is made, Isshin mixes up many attacks and gives little time for the player to breath and recover their posture, keeping the player in the edge of missing the parry and getting block broken, and of course the way isshin changes his whole moveset mid fight giving him a new weapon, a long ranged attacks, fast barrages, fast and slow mixups, unparryable attacks making the player decide if he should dodge or mikiri depending on the move, then at his last phase adding the mechanic from Genichiro giving him the ability to use a thunder strike to power up one of his attacks making the player react fast and remember what he was teached about how to counter a thunder strike, isshin in his last phase does many mixups and sometimes after a certain mixup he will follow up with a fast thunder strike, Isshin is a test of all you've learned through your hours in the game, you'll need to react fast, remember his moves, be aware of the mechanics you we're teached, attack, counter attack and learn the openings of the boss, doing all of this steps and maybe more. (if you wish to kill isshin using your shinobi techs and prostetic arm, making the boss fight more fun but harder) all 3 of his phases, making him an actual enjoyable boss to fight. Now lets stop this little glazing session for isshin as a boss and think of a solution for the problem of bosses It's actually ''kinda simple'' And no, it's not giving the bosses only 4 moves more making 2 parryable moves and 2 moves you need to dodge It's actually making a fight fitting for the boss, adding mechanics to the fight and make the player actually feel joy from beating said boss For example, Primadon could have an underwater section on his bossfight, since after all hes kinda like a fish and lives underwater giving him the advantage, the fight could start like normal you just fight primadon a little bit on the ground, and then after certain ammount of damage he will enter his rage mode making him go through the big branches of trees on the arena, jumping and using them to move around the arena like a monkey would, he would throw rocks at you and sometimes do a small jump towards the player making primadon try to catch the player with his hand, the grab will not be able to be parried or dodged but instead need to be countered, before primadon does this move he will be jumping around the arena on the tree branches and throwing rocks, to avoid making primadon use the grab on you, you would need to jump on the small lake that theres in the arena and find a giant broken spear on the bottom of the lake, you would need to take the tip of the giant spear and carry it out of the water, and wait for primadon to do his grab, the moment he does the grab you would press m1 while you're carrying the spear and impale it on his hand making primadon unable to jump on the tree branches anymore. after that Primadon would pull out the tip of the spear out of his hand and then sink his own island and get you on his ''domain'' where he could do small lunges towards you that you would need to dodge or get grabbed by his mouth and get massive damage from him, there could be quick time event to avoid some part of the damage so it doesn't do so much, to counter this phase of his fight you would need to get out of the water and jump on his spawner (The big campfire above the arena where you put the umbral obisdian to spawn him) and try to beat him, in this part of the fight you wouldn't be able to attack him unless you posture broke him making him tired and hold to the ledge, letting you get hits in. After that he would stand back up still a bit tired and rip off the ledge where you're standing taking you back inside the water. I would add more to this idea but after all a dev won't see this and it's just an example of how to make the fights more entretaining by changing up the gameplay a little bit (of course this is nothing like isshin ashina from sekiro but you gotta understand that this is roblox and deepwoken is being made by arch, rag, zerl and other people. NOT Fromsoftware) Since primadon is a big monster boss, a boss fight similar to the god of war 2 first boss fight but still maintaining the original some of the original idea with some sections where you're meant to dodge and parry.
@@jkeebla ^, had to cheese, no way I am doing no hit when I lag spike once every half a minute minimum, even with cheese I had to keep dodging, failed twice because I lag spiked exactly when I wanted to dodge
you've pretty much been able to sum up what i thought the core issues of the game have been for years in a ~20 minute video really well-done, great editing style i don't think they'll ever pick rpg or roguelike though
I think what pisses me off is that this game is fucking awsome compared to many MMOs especially in roblox standards. Like I would play this shit every day. But they just don't know where they wanna go with the game. So much potential wasted bruh
with 1000 hours in the same world seeing islands like miner landing and the next half of songseeker was amazing i really do love those parts of the map
Finally, someone on the internet who can validate my beliefs as I yell into the echo chamber Deepwoken as a whole can be summed up in one statement, "the devs saw x good thing in a great game, but put it in their game without thinking why it worked." They've used or played or heard of a bunch of cool concepts but end up being unable to properly implement it, creating this horrible Frankenstein's Monster of a game that's honestly beyond saving. I've long since moved away from the game's actual gameplay, I was kinda done with it on month one when I realised the story started and ended with Erisa, ie the first 5 Powers, and the only thing really left is the lore, ONLY THE LORE HAS THE SAME PROBLEM. The initial vision was clearly a Dark Souls - Bloodborne type world but every new addition has made its world so much "brighter" and "jovial" compared to the initial vision, and stuff being reworked on a whim, such as Arch watching Evangelion and deciding to add futuristic mechs to the lore despite the Industrial Era setting, it's honestly so saddening, I feel like I'm witnessing my child being murdered in front of me every week, every lore dump.
Picked up Deepwoken after spending roughly 600-800 hours on For Honor. Spent my first 8 hours of the game practicing against the trainers, just to learn that there is zero punish for parry, block is worthless, and the community will just laugh and call it a skill issue when asked for tips. I've played a myriad of other fighting games and never had an issue learning them like Deepwoken.
hes flooding my house with facts as a deepwoken yter i just play for the pve at this point. w rank was fun but the echo system is so useless once its done, they haven't updated it in a long time and im sitting on 3.5k echoes with absolutely 0 usage other than passing down enchants / legendaries (which rarely ever happens). this is the only roguelike part of the game and there’s nothing branched out on it past echo upgrades even then the recent pve content (diluvian) just throws mobs at the player and everyone just m1s with brick wall sacred field and calls it a day, and that shit was made in like 4 days by arch i aint even excited for the conquest part of the big update at this point, game is viciously ping based and if u wanted to play with friends from around the world then good luck trying to win in conquest or any pvp, leading to all my friends just quitting the game and just making jokes on how this weekly update will be massive (added overpowered feature and no cool content) Anyways please vote Niko the seal for the next Seal of the Year for 2024
I liked the part of Deepwoken allowing creativity in the making of builds, unique and viable, but everytime it happens, these type of builds get nerfed because players couldn't adapt. Take a glance back on how players wanted Ice Blade to stop once you parry it (since it kept going even if you parried it), it was made like that, because players didn't know how to deal with it, that got changed that way, even though Rapid Punches existed. I seriously never understood why people that fought against Jetstrikers (Jetstriker Momentum didn't stop when you used mantras), never went to the water to avoid that mantra cancel technique. I've made tons of builds that were REALLY GOOD IN THE OVERWORLD, for later Chime dwellers use certain technique that gets my build butchered and no longer usable for OVERWORLD GANKS. Example: My build I made was based around a Necromancer build: Blood Shadow could be used with Visionshaper clones AND Lightning Clones, in a perspective, that is really damn overpowered, however, the thing about fighting in the OVERWORLD, is that you will never get a fair fight, you will have to go against multiple people, which made the Necromancer build really viable & balanced. Chime of Conflict ruined the overworld and the game direction.
@@allahman4453 no i come back to deepwoken after a few months and i think it's boring (mostly bc i have to constantly hop servers just to get killed by a voidwalker or i crash when i am fighing in pve) losing.is.not.fun
@@toniarcilla6591 Wait, so you think chime ruined Deepwoken because it forced the devs to actually balance the game? You admittedly stated that the build was overpowered, yet wanted it to not get nerfed because of the possibility of fighting multiple ppl, ppl who also can use that build or any other overpowered build and make the fight even more one-sided. Realistically, the more balanced builds are in Deepwoken, the more reliable it is to win vs multiple players. Having an op build vs ppl without op builds can level the playing field, but if their builds are also op, it just makes it impossible for you to do anything. When builds are balanced, raw skill becomes a much bigger factor and can make the difference more often. Also, for the part about Jetstriker, needing a certain terrain to be nearby to be able to counterplay a combat mechanic is beyond terrible game design.
I feel like the old combat would be way better if they just improved on that instead of completely scraping it, its so annoying to play offensively because the defense is the exact same thing every time and it is near impossible to play around it. They try to parry and if that misses they dodge, if that misses they dodge again and then their parry cd is back, there is just no punishing or counterplay unless it's something they messed up on. They always said that mantras became really busted so why not just tweak the mantras so it isn't?
Great video and amazing points. I think it’s either they fix the perma death (checkpoints, more lives, something along those lines) or fix progression (it takes atleast 3 hours to progress, remove “ive learnt what ive can from training, I should put it into practice” and deepwoken’s progression is fixed)
@er It is an rpg but it is also a roguelike, so the progression needs to vary or else it will get so fucking repetitive people wouldnt want to play again in their life
@aank8335 it does vary to some extent. the only thing that does get pretty stale is leveling since its just grinding mob kills OR grinding player kills, but even that has a decent amount of options on how u want to level. could use meaningful quests that help with leveling tho instead of quests only giving you items or cards or abilities. but regardless, i really don't think 3 hours is ANY bad at all
@@Rerolfer Yea 3 hours is okay.... but not for a game that is primrally based on wiping AND pvp build making the idea of someone just wiping you in any moment because of my ping issues out of my control make the game unplayable The progression we have rn doesnt really belong to a roguelike game because permadeath is not at all related to it, and doing so the build making part is damaged. So the dev either make the craziest changes and fix the execution of those hard to fuse genres or else they just decide for one of those two to take the lead It is not a bad progression but gets repetitive, has its own flaws and doesnt belong on this type of game its not just my taste because I like both genres, the execution of the fusion of concepts is whats laking I love farming on hive with the music and all the mobs and art but I have to admit that the game contradicts itself at times.... voidwalkers being a clear example of this. Thats why i just gave up playing deep and now im making my own game lol But I came to the conclution that is so fucking hard to fix a core issue like this that permadeath itself on a build based pvp or on an exploration progresion based game should just be removed
Half the playerbase doesn't even know the most basic lore pieces. (Ex. Regent's name and background, Duke's golems, why water can't be an attunement, or even what the Depths is based on) They literally don't care, they just wanna play the game. It's like why people skip the story in so many games. Lore doesn't bring players.
@@Sc5ch You are almost wrong about lore not bringing players A book becomes a game, you read the lore (the book) and now you want to see if the game is like the lore.
@speedlife735 Nobody plays a game just because of its lore, lol. Why do you think a good number of people don't even know what Deep's lore is and why people skip dialogue in games. #1 thing that pulls players is gameplay. If you can’t understand that dunno what you're doing in the comments.
@Sc5ch "Lore doesn't bring players" is complete bullshit lmao, sure a story alone probably won't attract everyone but it absolutely plays a massive part if it's part of the design. The problem with Deepwoken is the game itself tells you fuck all about the world and how it works, for even the most basic details you have to lurk in the Discord and read Google Docs just to learn the reason water attunement can't be a thing is literally just "water bad :(".
@powder479 You seem to not understand that this is Roblox. Look how next to none of the most popular games have basically any lore or story. People just wanna play the game. I can guarantee that if they were to do a poll saying "Add more lore books" or "Add more cosmetics," cosmetics would win. Deep isn't even supposed to be a story-based game. It's a build-making game. Arch just cooks up lore on the spot when people ask him stuff. That game called "lore game?" I wonder how many people are playing it? Go play Arcane Odyssey if you want a story-driven game.
I need to say it, OATHS ARE CLASSES FROM ROGUE LINEAGE!!! I mean think about it, your the base class with no oath, your a super class with oath (but none of the upgrades) and your a ultra class with a completed. There are no ubers, just base, super, and ultra.
idk bruh i cant play deep without exploits but i cna play rogue all day without exploitsa nd have the time of my life for the past 4 years. ROGUE > DEPWOKEN SORRY
im snorting copium praying they'll continue the lord regent storyline since they dropped a Smidge of lore with the new maestro boss fight 😭i so desperately want for the devs to continue the actual lore/story aspects of the game because they introduce so many cool concepts (at least imo) but never end up doing anything with them! when i bought this game i thought it was right up my alley because i love the kinds of games where you can just get lost in the world for hours, but ever since i started playing at the start of verse 2, nothing substantial was really ever added which is disappointing :( kind of why i decide to usually just write within the world rather than actually play the game LOL
Few weeks late here but I'd also like to include the fact that how Deepwoken operates makes it AGONIZING to just attempt to LEARN the games basic mechanics. If you want to improve at Deepwoken, as you said, you need reaction time. This goes for BOTH PVP AND PVE, which is important because PVE is the entire other half of the game. If you want to even practice parrying, you'll have to struggle and die multiple times due to the varieties of enemies. Let's say you wanted to do trial of one. Now you are practicing it. Each time you die and fail the trial, instead of a simple checkpoint system like non-roguelike games, or a quick return to a main area to quickly start again and get right back into the action, you have to go through this process: 1. Die in the depths, whether it be from falling, from another player, or from a mob. This step can be annoyingly inconvenient at times. 2. Remake your character, maybe you'd want a different build to take on a different challenge since this game is just SOOOO build reliant. 3. Spawn back into the trial after the loading screens, which sounds simple enough, but can be quite annoying after your dozens of attempts start to tear away at your patience. 4. Go through the whole trial again and either A. Die and start this entire process again or B. Beat the trial and finally be free of the process DO NOTE THIS MEANS YOU HAVE THE OATH ALREADY, if you are a new player trying to get good at the game, or trying to get to the trial, you have to 1. Figure out how the hell your character selection works, and throw something together 2. Get all the items you need to sell in order to reobtain your equipment 3. Move all the way down to the docks from the spawn area 4. Buy and spawn your boat and use it to travel ALLLLL the way to Erisia or the entrance for the trial, IF YOU EVEN KNOW WHERE YOU'RE GOING IN THE FIRST PLACE 5. spend ages looking for enemies to fight or the stronghold holding the trial of one just to get A. sweated by some random asshole or a voidwalker (alternatively you can be ganked instead giving you even less fighting chance) B. killed because you lack PVE experience, or C. die in the trial due to poor PVE experience. No matter what, you gotta repeat the cycle all over again after this for each and every single death, so have fun. Not to mention dying in the trial without the oath causes you to take EVEN LONGER to wipe since, in that case, you'll just get sent back to the overworld with a stained health bar.
oh boy a video tackling a game on roblox >watches intro >subs immediately where do you guys with literal editing talent keep coming from? absolute banger
great video for discussion! just putting my 2 cents out on how to fix the general loop, mixed with some points in the video. This is from the pov of a relatively new player. 1. they DESPERATELY need to make progression take a short time ,1 to 2-ish hours to power 20 max, even if you don't do optimal methods or don't farm bosses for the last few powers. I started playing almost 3 months ago, and barely have the motivation to make builds myself or try new content blind because you lose so much time to wipes. Best recent example is the spit on maestro. did they really need to not only instantly kill you for trying to get 2-3% back, but also send you to the depths instantly along with the flaw AND neutral rep? all punish, no fun, no reward for trial and error. Maestro shouldn't even kill you its a friendly spar >:( 2. remove missed parry stun. Learning pvp is hard enough in a community made up of players who have been training reflex on parries and been cooking up the cheesiest builds possible, but dear lord please don't let me take 40% every time i try to parry late. At least let a homie get a chance to make a mistake and be able to learn how my opponent plays. Only fun when I play in the lamest way possible. 3. saved the best for last, give existing content the love it needs. Bug fixes, developing old content (ironsing eating ores for example), or simply just patching up existing content like adding new weapons to catagories that haven't seen much love (maces) or developing the "quests" the game has into things with more weight than a tiny amount of exp and a mantra or 2 knowledge/extra talent at best. Give some love to the systems you've already made, or at the very least focus on the core of the game by fleshing out what's already been created. Hate saying this, but great potential, just needs the devs to fumble less hard. I understand how they gotta add new stuff to keep veteran players interested but a game on a platform like roblox is mainly held together by a healthy community (not real) and a cycle of new players joining a game.
I appreciate having at least someone step up and make a video like this, just wish we could have been at a place in time where the talk wasn't so negative.
Honestly quite a few times I've seen bullcrap mid fight that just didn't make sense, and sure some of that happens from me just spacing out or messing smth up, but now that I'm seeing this..... Yeah I'm starting to see why I feel so sad when playing deepwoken even when "winning".
before release, i thought the combat was gonna be based on predicting feints and mixups and stuff like that, but then they added DODGING. when u fall for a feint u literally just press Q and u escape punishment for free. also youre right about the whiff punishing. before deepwoken, i never played any proper fighting games. after deepwoken came out i started playing actual fighting games too and whiff punishing was quite a new concept for me. it would completely change how deepwoken combat works if they add that and PROBABLY for the better. also i thought the reason they made the map island based was so that it was easier to add more areas, but then they only added "new" islands ONCE for verse 2. i believe most of the devs have their own projects and deepwoken isnt even their main focus so idk what they should even do
ive been keeping track of this game since 2019 and ik they always had ROLLING but not dodging. the rolling didnt have s. u can go back and watch the directs and nanoprodigys 2 old videos and they get hit while rolling. first time we ever saw dodging was in the agamatsu vs nanoprodigy pvp livestream from only a few weeks or something before the game came out
I barely just started playing deep, well not barely, bought the game back in verse 1 and never really got into it. (Arcane Odyssey addiction) But it's kinda of crazy to me a game with such deep lore and really good world building is the.. same. I watch it and you know how flipping cool faction wars would be? I mean actually faction wars, Contractors vs Chainwardens. People of opposing ideologies fighting. Effects for say, killing people in the depths? A drowning of Etris event where you try to defend Etris against a new Celtorian horror? If you fail Etris is destroyed, (Contractors being able to fight alongside it.) The world actually fully changing. Game breaking events. And even if you'd complain this would remove a starting area. Who says a drift island couldn't come in and add a small rebuilt etris? There's a million possibilities with the lore they created that they refuse to implement because of a crazy and pvp focused player base. Image you make it a whole choose your own adventure time game. It'd be flipping amazing. Choices actually affecting gameplay? You wanna go contractor? Great your gonna cause another drowning. A world with such breath and depth of world, (Pun not intended), should be used. Not pining to a playerbase that wants crazy new weapons and perfect things. Even worse its a passion project. They have no obligation to listen to these people. It's not like they'd lose money over these things. Good work if you read to the end. Probably will get buried but who knows.
Hi, I'm a player who has a shit load of hours in this game and particularly play semi-comp, 1.3k elo max. I am writing this at 4:55 AM, so if I say something particularly really rеtаrdеd, just leave it be. Progression isn't fun, yes. This has been thrown out ever since people found out To1 and Adept stacking was a thing to minmax progression, and then realizing they fucked up your chances of getting legendaries and rares because of the shitty non-working pity system they added so you could get a legendary talent. Progression now is made so much easier, but it's very bland- however this could probably be said for every game which includes leveling up. V2 progging is legit just do To1, Crypt to 15, Duke to 20. To1 still DID have a risk, if you didn't get the talent card you wanted, you had to wipe or get lucky in the next run. Thankfully, they added SHRINE OF SOLITUDE WHICH MADE IT SO YOU BASICALLY GET A FREE MYSTIC INSIDE OF TRIAL. IT'S HONESTLY JUST THE BEST WAY TO PROGRESS SINCE YOU SKIP WHAT'S BASICALLY 30 LEVELS BACK IN V1. Souls franchise is primarily their main source of "inspiration." However, the progression in Souls is far different from deep and it revolves around you not knowing anything about what you're getting into and having something in mind to strive for. The souls games are best experienced when you don't know anything about them, unlike people who play it for the PVP in which of course progression is skipped entirely and we resort to using cheat engine to get our levels, and items. Now, arguments could be made, and you could say that "Why not just let us be instantly level 20 after meeting X criteria" and while this may be good, this ultimately removes the terrible progression system as a whole, and yes, it is terrible, but it is needed. If you removed progression, you essentially remove Deepwoken's entire aspect of it being RNG, but since the developers are slowly removing *that* aspect anyways, so it doesn't matter. Point is, you're turning Deepwoken into a sandbox that costs 400 robux, pretty much. Dying in the game doesn't matter, either way as well. If you're max level and have everything you need, you don't really have anything in your inventory. What I mean by this is you only have enchanted armor that can't be dropped, and maybe some gems which you swap out but you can just easily do Layer 2 Floor 1 to get them back. Since the AI is actually really easy to fight, the prospect of wiping is thrown out of the fucking picture as well, a PVE build then will NEVER EVER come close to reaching the shitfest of what it is now being crystal warden's blade and ice carve spin variant. Deepwoken is also dry, really dry. I came in to play it for it's worldbuilding, ended up ignoring 99% of the content in game and just did PVP. The content this game has isn't lacking, but there's no incentive to do so. Diluvian mechanism is a cool addition to the game, but why would I do it when I can just run Layer 2 Floor 2 and have lesser chance of dying. The new outfit in there is dogshit and people are stocked up on legendaries, so you can just trade the random Curved you got from killing ethiron for other legendaries. It is sad to see that they dropped the whole sea aspect as a whole. It is actually really depressing to see they dropped this concept. Take this with a grain of salt, but when the top 1% of the 1% are making balance changes, it unironically fucks over builds left and right who aren't even specced into what the 1% has and just so happens to have *some* of what the "top" players have. I understand nerfing exhaustion strike, it's fast, no damage, has hitstun but the best thing about it is that it transfers posture. What made Exhaustion strike really strong was the fact that it transfers posture on a fast mantra that could also be used as a mixup tool. However, I don't see why I shouldn't be able to posture break someone without them blocking by using exhaustion strike. That's the whole purpose of the move, I throw them off balance and exhaust them for a little bit allowing me to get a free m1 off. Oh and, what's ruining deepwoken is the dev's lack of actual creativity. I understand that basing your work off of something and building off of that is a great strategy, and some writers or whatever use this to better their creations.. Deepwoken devs see what they think in media is cool, add it into the game without thought for balance and leave it as is. I'll get hate for saying this, but tech actually raises skill cap. It also enables players to have skill expression, letting you know that if someone does something in a particular way, even if they're on an alternative account, you immediately KNOW it's them because that's how they play, how they utilize bugs to their gameplay. Yes, this is really, really unfair to go up against but everything can have counterplay no matter how stupid it is. And now we get to my favourite section. Combat. At a glance, yes whiff punishing is that simple. A guy misses his move, and you get to hit him for it. The problem with whiff punishing in deep is latency. Fighting games don't have this issue since they have differing netcodes. Fighting games also work fundamentally different from what Roblox is. It's sprite-based, and while there is still lag, it operates in delay-based peer to peer connection. The comparison doesn't really work considering frame data in Roblox games don't exist. If I know a guy is minus, that's only if it's completely visible and easily punishable, like parrying someone in YBA or blockbreaking them. Whiff punishing is nuanced, and there's lots of things to even take into account. If Hol Horse in hftf whiffs 5C in neutral, I know to hit him with a super on reaction. If Adolin Hashi whiffs Revenge, I can't do shit because I might not have Revenge in my kit, I might not have Radiant Kick to whiff punish him. And besides, whiff punishing is also going to be significantly harder because hitboxes generally linger for much longer in roblox games than it would be in fighting games. Yes, I am aware that there are moves in fighting games which linger for a long ass time. But if you want to whiff punish a heavy player, you best just use a gap closing tool like Revenge or so. Frame data in roblox games are dogshit, recovery frames will usually only last for 1-3 frames when realistically no one can react to that unless you're god. This is why whiff punishing is also harder on top of what I just said if you read up.
I actually just stopped playing the game a month or two ago just because of how much absolute hatred it caused me. Every time I'd actually start to get good and have fun, my run would wipe. 9 times out of 10 I usually lost the build to a player that decided for absolutely no reason to kill me. I got so tired of playing the game because I knew no matter how hard I tried, I would wipe to some Power 20 with a build capable of instantly killing me with zero chance to fight back. At some point I just couldn't go through it anymore just because of how toxic every single player in the game is. They'll wipe the floor with you then act like it's a skill issue on your part.
Yeah, although comparable to those players we do have a skill issue that’s not really the point, it’s just the incentive they’re given to kill others for no reason
As someone who religiously plays deepwoken, I find the combat fun because of how shallow it is. That doesn't make it a good combat system. I just like it, LOL. This is a really, really well-made video. How do you only have 1.2k subscribers with such good editing skills?
Look, the video is good (mostly the first part, im very much in love with deepwokens combat) but those constant texts appearing, making me rewind 5 seconds, pause, read, unpause, repeat in 10 seconds is making my blood absolutely boil. Stop that shit.
imo it’s kinda cool, even if they are significant chunks of their arguments that I could be missing out had I not went back in time to pause. They still look cool and makes me feel like I’m interacting with the video. It is a little annoying sometimes I agree but they had me a lot more invested in their video (not to glaze or anything)
I love how you have this well-edited, well-thought-out critique of a game with really cool cinematics, but all the other uploads are 1-minute-long videos about a baby seal. Just in case, this wasn't meant to insult you or smth, I was just surprised and found it funny.
Deepwoken is what happens when you give a bunch of gamer weebs a massive audience and no oversight. There's a spark of passion present and a few good ideas shine through, but the game has no critical thinking applied to the balancing or core gameplay mechanics. It's a bunch of rookie programmers just adding whatever flashy ability or questline they just saw in final fantasy with no consideration as to the main gameplay loop or how fun mechanics actually are to play. They kind of just piled everything they like in a game onto a roblox map and attracted an audience of turbo gooners who are too broke to buy rust but love to watch other people lose progress. It sucks that this game eats so many players when there are actually creative and entertaining roblox games that could use the players
i think you have to remember this is a ROBLOX game, there is not 1 game that is better than this really, sure there are a lot of aspects that are bad but that doesn't make the game as a whole bad. Every game is going to have their downsides no matter how hard they try. i'd actually love to see you name 3 better roblox games
@@Dumm0utDecaying winter, Arcane Odsyeey, entry point, etc and by the way these types of games are difficult but fun to play. You don't need permadeath just to have fun.
Sure Arcane odsyeey maybe laggy, and Roblox can't handle it which I can understand, but the game exploration, difficulty, and story did it better then deepwoken
@@delsion5560 i have never thought to myself that perma death was fun, I can’t check what I said before but perma death handled in deepwoken is just horrible and not a good mechanic
Roblox AFR is something you should play. It has no perma death. But the good thing is that the spell system is cool because it has like a pattern system, and you can only learn the spells if you explore or ask any players. like the shield spell is the pattern. "left down right down up." If I remember? And heck you can only get weapons with exploring, and looking around.
The reason the game has 'flopped a little' its the community. They want one thing, once they get it? They get mad, and rant abt how they deserve better. This game has a BIG quality, but its community? Its driving the game down.
This is a pretty good video. You covered a lot of things that I would agree with, but I do have some constructive. 1: The devs are working with Roblox, and Roblox is a very (very) flawed program to begin with. Servers are awful and implode if 1 too many players are on the game, which is why dungeons and instanced servers have to exist. A system where islands move and change would also be held back by Roblox. Heck! Seasons changing already spikes the entire server by like 400ms. I could guarantee that if Deepwoken was on a platform that wasn’t Roblox, it would be infinitely better, but probably at the cost of popularity (only people with high end devices and crazy good internet would be able to play). In short, Roblox itself is just a bad engine. The devs are working with what they are given, which isn’t much. 2: You can’t really go by what the devs originally intended with this game. There’s no doubt in saying that Deepwoken is a competitive PvP experience. You can’t call the game an exploration game or a quest game when every single patch and change is for PvP or for PvE. Now that I have that out of the way, the reason why people don’t like that it’s a PvP game is because of how draining progressing is, which honestly I don’t have a counter for. Progressing is severely flawed, especially seeing that almost all the content in the game is endgame PvP or loot pool content, which brings me to my last point. 3: Deepwoken PvP is really good for a Roblox game. It’s addicting, engaging, and with a few changes I could say the best PvP on Roblox. The main problem either this lies on the statement of where PvP exists in the game which is once again shoved in the endgame. And your section on how reading players doesn’t reward you at all is very much true. Fun fact, your opponent is not stunned at all if you block or parry their vent, and they can just avoid your next attack. My main issue lies in how easy it is to vent. It’s a combo escape tool that is un-punishable unless your opponent is a mile away, and you get like 6 of them in a match. In any real fighting game you get one or two bursts, of which if you miss one, you DIE. But yea thats my only problem with PvP. TL;DR: Your video is very good I really enjoyed it, you just missed a few things.
ty bro but I will say that you cant really put all the blame of deepwoken's performance on roblox because deepwoken performs noticeably worse than many other games with the same or higher complexity. giant server hiccups and the fact that the average ping is ~20ms higher than any other game in the same server location are telling that it lies mostly on deepwoken's developers rather than roblox. also the fact that there are so many different oversights within the actual gameplay mechanics themselves (like when Flaming Scourge was completely unparry/block/dodgable for like a week when it released) really points to the devs just not being competent
maybe the combat used to be good but not anymore. if anything pvp is most fun in the mid levels because at max youll probably just be fighting huge particle effect 50% combo parry bots or spammers
@@tobafanpageWhich "other games" are you talking about? I doubt there's any playable game with as many events happening and content as Deepwoken that has performance on par or better than it.
ive seen many people claiming that deepwoken's poor networking is primarily the fault of roblox, so here's a bit more technical elaboration as to why it's not
first, understand that deepwoken doesn't actually have to handle a lot server-side, the most intensive stuff it needs to do is handle networking for each player and handle the logic for every NPC, which in itself isn't super complex.
second, roblox is more than capable of supporting a game like deepwoken well. games like CoR Fidelis (call of robloxia) are prime examples of how roblox can be utilized well to create games that handle performance and networking well. hell if you want a more direct example the game "fakewoken 3" is quite literally just deepwoken's combat and still performs much better than the actual game itself (though I know it's not a super fair comparison)
third, the deepwoken devs have already shown to not be super competent, even looking at things that aren't networking. shrine of order stat allocation being broken/inefficient until a third party stepped in, SK's crit being weird and buggy through multiple updates, flaming scourge ignoring blocking and dodging on release, and countless other bugs show off the devs general incompetence programming wise, so it's not a stretch to imagine that the poor networking and random game breaking bugs aren't soley because of roblox.
so the reason for deepwoken's servers having 20ms higher ping than other games, common 500ms ping spikes, and the copious amounts of bugs are more likely to be an issue on the devs, not roblox. i cant prove this in a comment but i'd wager that this is because DW handles alot of its visual effects and particles on the server rather than each client, which any programmer can tell you is really bad practice
and even if deepwoken had flawless performance, the issue of ping directly affecting combat would still be prevalent. if a dev is reading this literally all you have to do is add a preset delay for EVERY player's inputs, basically making everyone have an effective ping of 80ms or whatever you set the delay to (subtract the delay by their ping obviously)
Mob AI and pathfinding is not cheap to compute. It requires constant adjustments and checks to be made, and can't safely be calculated on the client side. I'm willing to bet that a lot of the networking problems come from the raw amount of mobs that NEED to be present in the game at once. It isn't just a PVP game, after all.
Boosted
@whupass then compute less
we can theorize where the issues come from all day, but in any case, if a game that only really has to compute mobs *can't* then it's still an issue on the dev's part that they should either fix or learn from, especially if the entire game functions worse as a result
@@tobafanpage I wonder how much worse the game would function if it didn't have the intelligent and well-designed AI that it currently does? I'm sure you would be complaining about the "crappy mob AI" if that was the case. Believe me when I say that most other games of this scale (especially on roblox) have MUCH worse AI quality than Deepwoken, yet they can not support NEARLY as many mobs at once. It is a wonder the game has achieved even adequate performance, and you are making wild assumptions that the devs dropped the ball simply because you do not understand how complicated a task this is. I would be amazed if you could show me even one instance of another game achieving quality and performance to the standard of Deepwoken. Although, I agree that content has been rushed (oaths and mantras), the core systems of the game are amazing compared to the rest of the roblox platform.
@@whupassAt best the mobs in this game aimlessly circle around you while cycling through the 3 attacks they have LMAO what are u talking about
I feel deepwokens' biggest problem is how unforgivening it is for new players just trying to explore. For a game that incentives and encourages exploration, deepwoken makes it almost impossible to do so - an intense learning curve, a hostile, dangerous and unfamiliar/hard to Navigate world, and unrestricted pvp are all factors making sure new players hate exploring or taking risk, I mean, who wants go to go explore when a voidwalker you have no hope of beating could swoop in a wipe you, or god forbid some random player who feels like being sadistic?
New players are always stepping on eggshells, worried that if they take a step out of their safe village they'll be wiped. Because of this, new players hardly ever get the chance to gain exprience or get good at the game, leaving them horrifically unprepared for any threat that comes their way. Not to mention how a game built on trial and error with only one trial makes no sense.
All in all, the game is unbelievably unfun for new players, and impossible for anyone unfamiliar with roguelite or souls games.
Even with me being quite familiar with FromSoftware's games as a whole, I still don't want to touch this game with a ten-yard pole. Everything about it screams the exact same energy I get from looking at a _fucking Tycoon game._
nah its just unfun in general. permadeath ruins every feature in this game
Yeah, I once tried to help a freshie but shortly after I got jumped, and then got wiped by the enforcer in the depths trial, really fun after spending a long time on that character
@@minemine7_Thats part of the experience. Every player had their first encounter with enforcer and lost the build they used hours on.
@@kilopopki4947 that wasnt the main point, i lost the character because I got jumped while helping a freshie instead of dying in pve and then getting sent to the depths
As someone who has 500 hours and has played Deepwoken since verse one I agree with a lot of you points. The game is very static and the actual gameplay is genuinely just looking things up on the wiki and applying it inside of the build creator, 95% of my gameplay is just grinding, just to lose it all to some guy with the new meta build that had a bad day and decided to wipe me in the depths for it. I wish the game would shift to a more explorative gamestyle (or i could just find a game that does everything dw does but better). The only reason I'm still playing is because I'm not boosted as shit and haven't been to Floor 2 yet, so Ethiron keeps me motivated, even though I will likely never get there and beat him without the help of a bunch of other high level players.
Though I agreed with most of your arguments, I noticed at 8:30 the death of your character was used to make a point but it was greatly exaggerated. You say you lost your character because you were exploring, when really you just died in Upper (Not even on rusty health bar btw) and then edit a clip of you waking up in Fragments of Self afterwards. Even though I agreed with most of your other points and I could understand why you would say that, moments like this harshly damage the structural integrity and reliability of many of your other points you make in the video.
Otherwise, great video, the visuals and audio design were some of the best I have ever seen, and the video definitely makes me reassess Deepwoken and why I've put so much time into it.
sorry for the yapfest guys
People who get pissy about yapfests are subhuman bandits. Stand proud, you were coherent and succint.
shut yo nerd ass up 😭
@@bradleygalo4775
May I tempt you to join over to the Fantastic Frontier side? We have all the exploration and fun PVE-focused RPG aspects, with not nearly as much pvp (and it’s not at all about parrying or whatever, so you can actually have casual fun with it), and it’s got really whimsical and mystical themes, environments, items and mobs (not counting a couple eldritch horrors later on). And best of all, no permadeath! The game really encourages exploration and getting sweet loot.
AFAIK There’s a mild rivalry between Fantastic Frontier and Deepwoken in terms of “Roblox’s Favorite Soulslike RPG” and I much prefer the Frontier, personally. Plus with a massive overhaul update inching towards the finish line after many years of no updates, it’s a good time to check the game out :)
@@VoltsWanted Me when I have to read more than one sentence: (I can't)
I feel like Deepwoken would be so much better if it were a soulsborne than a roguelike. Builds would then be defined by the effort it takes for people to explore and what attributes that cater to most instead of leaving everything to chance. At least in a soulsborne fashion players would explore Deepwoken's needlessly huge map with about only about half of the areas actually being an encounter zone.
It wants to be a souls borne/ rpg so bad but since Monad studios made it it HAS to be permadeath. And they have no idea if they want it to be a rogue like or rpg. Shit sucks
thats what I always thought they should do. they left most of the game being pretty much wastelands for no reasons. even one of the main places for powerful factions are practically empty. if they just make more things happen in those empty spaces or even just straight up shrink the map it wouldve been way better than this.
i don't think the devs are good enough at making bosses/areas to actually make the game a soulsborne
you came out of nowhere and cooked, keep it up
I've always thought this and even play the game because it feels like a Soulsborne with more Rogue-like tendencies (Progressing fast) which if they played into those aspects of the game it could be STUPID fucking good, like Voidwalkers could literally be invaders, they have so much stuff like that which could be effortlessly blended into a better more flushed out n' heartfelt game.
The best thing that could possibly happen to deepwoken is the developers finally making up their mind on what kind of game they want to make in the first place.
Is it a open world RPG or is it a Roguelike.
Sitting between them does absolutely nothing but hurt the game.
PvP + permadeath with no restrictions whatsoever is singularly the worst idea I've ever seen in a game.
They're leaning more towards open world PVP already
You have to actively try to wipe a build if you know what your doing and anything risky is a choice
Only time permadeath is really a factor is if you're a new player
@sionalinbounder9119 People have been saying "you have to actively try to wipe a build" since release.
It just isn't true.
As long as pvp permadeath is in the game, wiping your build can be completely out of your hands unless you're able to take on 3+ players at once.
They're sitting on the fence as long as permadeath is in the game, plain and simple.
@@theoreticalexistence9630
No one in deepwoken is jumping you in the depths as of recent
If it's to the point it's a issue find a small server
The DW playerbase isn't aggressive towards everyone in the depths
its obviously what they are going for have you not been here since rogue?
@o2428 and rogue was an absolutely godawful game, far worse than deepwoken in EVERY aspect.
The progression in rogue was abysmal and made the community far more toxic than it had any right to be.
Sitting on the fence has done nothing but hurt both games, deepwoken to a lesser degree because its less egregious and miserable than rogue (not a high bar to cross).
Just because deepwoken is better than rogue doesn't mean its good.
"give the deepwoken devs a beginner's lua tutorial" 😭
The dev's programming skills isn't just the problem. Roblox is also a problem, it's very obvious. Hope they actually just switch platforms like steam.
@@mysticphantom9870 switching platforms is not an option. not only would they lose a bunch of players, but the amount of resources that would take is staggering. but i'd have to agree that roblox is definitely a limiting factor, its a sad position to be stuck in.
@@mysticphantom9870 deepwoken wouldnt be deepwoken though? its not that easy to just to shift all roblox assets on a roblox game into a game on steam
"shattered crit now doesnt proc 2nd hits on whiff" (still doesnt work like that)
@@meraldwaves ong
ngl the fact that in lore, there's actually a calendar if you press tab and hundreds of years have passed since release YET NOTHING HAS ADVANCED, AND NOTHING HAS CHANGED POLITICALLY, AND NO DRIFTLANDS HAVE MOVED OUT OR CAME IN, AND NO NEW DISCOVERIES HAVE BEEN MADE? if there was actual technological progression as the game continued on it would be more fun as it would make deepwoken look like a real, dying world, however it completely breaks the immersion when it's been 200 years and nothing has changed.
also the reaction you get to losing is wildly different than other better roguelike/lite games, like FTL, where after I lose I feel like "ohh that was a fun run, I wanna do it again! but with a different ship maybe, what should I go with?", and it doesn't put me off from playing FTL, meanwhile deepwoken I'm thinking "Fuck this game bro" and I will proceed to stop playing deepwoken for 3 weeks out of straight putting off progressing a new character because IT ISN'T FUN, EVEN AS A NON-SKILLED PLAYER
ok ngl thats a you problem also uh you know people got lives outside a roblox game right
@@allahman4453 many people got the same problem da fuck?
@@allahman4453 that’s not even what’s being argued
ignition union
Agreed look at other rouge like games where even if you die, you have fun even while dying in deepwoken it's extremely grindy with barely any rewards after getting to certain levels you might be able to keep a thing or two but thats mostly it
Glad u mentioned the art direction changing so drastically. Early deep and layer 1 release had their own really distinct style and even though it was simple it had its charm.
But I’m guessing after devs like k1 joined the picture the game became a lot more generic anime slop in style. It isn’t garbage or anything but it def is worse than initial deep imo. I mean just look at some of the new mantras and weapons coming out rn, the only thing k1 knows how to pump out is aba slop. Probably not entirely his doing but 100% a large majority.
Idk how accurate this is but if what you say is true then ig k1’s name being Killua based makes a lot more sense
I really agree with it, everyone got tired of anime looking style
It just NOT fitting deepwoken style
Watching the oldest dev preview of the game old combat system much more janky and "alive" unlike now
the new effects look cool, but with blocky characters it looks so out of place.
i love how he full well knows some guys gunna go "skill issue" so he throws in a bunch of clips of him beating the shit out of people
yeah deepwoken is a tiring shitty game with the playerbase being identical to league of legends
they adding conquest which is basically league of legends LOLL
they're not helping their case either slowly making deepwoken a one on one replica of rogue lineage
Reason why it drives people away (like me )
Seriously though they gave this little game a price tag of that much robux... Like fr?? That should have already been a sign.
I can make lots of cool outfits and stuff for my avatar with all that instead of this hellhole of a game that this video shows to me i should never touch
it all makes sense…
@@kqlolll2618 im gonna assume you're on the younger side. 5 dollars isn't "that much robux" with the time the developers put into the game. If only the community wasn't disgusting.
that intro is glorious bro im at a loss for words
the intro was so well made
Truth 👆
I actually really like deepwoken's pve gameplay, when I die it feels like I learned something about a monster or area, the danger levels etc, in terms of the rpg part of Deepwoken it's not completely terrible.
it's mainly the pvp part that is painful, as that seems to be the part the devs are focusing more on.
I could be having the time of my life in the game if I was not constantly combat logging at the sight of another player.
How much playtime do you have and what have your achieved for now? I wanna tell you something in response to your first statement
Attacking a monster or a player or anything really, learning about it, dying, and repeating until you win COULD have been a great loop for deepwoken but instead they tacked on "start over progression completely for the next 5 hours lol" on the end.
Yeah I LOVE playing by myself and would be on the game so often if I could just play the game unbothered which is why I've always felt it'd be better as a Soulsborne like the only it can be fun for me is if I get on at like 8pm for the small servers.
Yeah I honestly play deepwoken for the pve, all my builds are pve based and its what I enjoy doing the most. it seems that 90% of the issues with this game revolves around the pvp combat in my opinion its pretty lackluster and unbalanced but I dont blame the devs for being able to do much about it because at the end of the day it is a roblox game. I most of the time go deepbound and am pretty good at susing out if someone is going to try and grip me or ruin my prog so I tend to log and run which saves me a good deal of time. People who complain about the permadeath I can understand but once you get better at the game it becomes alot less of an issue, most of my builds tend to end when I decide to wipe them myself or die to someone on purpose, I think some people are just stupid and die to other players because they are not aware of their surroundings and refuse to learn what this games playerbase likes to do
@@deli8871 I've always been a firm believer that if your game demands players to quit playing to avoid certain problems with no actual counterplay, that is a flaw in game design that needs to be fixed IMMEDIATELY.
am i tweaking what is that in the back
It’s his shirt lol
It’s Jeb
yeah i was high as fuck and got scared
Idk why he did it like that 😭
hey, programmer and game designer here. I have a lot of experience with monad's products and can't enjoy deepwoken for some of the mentioned (and other) reasons. I really appreciate your perspectives, video production, and knowledgability about the subjects, and have seen your breakdown comment on performance. no secret that deepwoken is poorly optimized but I wanted to mention a few things. roblox's standard for replication is like two decades old and they're only now starting to adopt things like unreliable remotes. the roblox servers do have a ton of trouble supporting games like deepwoken. of course not only is ping the input delay, but the transfer time of all packets, so you're also seeing a past game state at all times. this means it will take physically longer to process the real gamestate and take longer to register into the game after your action, making some capabilities LITERALLY impossible. this is the root issue of designing competitive games on roblox's architecture.
Thank you for your perspective.
you've summed it up very well and very calmly. But while some of the game design can be poor and the game is laggy, the lack of devs that work mainly on deepwoken is a massive issues. the fact that they are constantly patching and adding to the game makes fixing things like combat hard. you have also probably experienced it but, the amount of Roblox bugs that I've faced that have taken me weeks to fix and mentally prepare for, actually made me want to break my laptop. the main issue is that the devs add content to the game according to the loud speakers, the ones who complain about the game, the ones who gank and sit on the game non stop. for the other people who play the game, it appears as if the devs are working against them as their builds worsen and other builds become game breaking.
deepwoken USED to be a rogue like. the main driving factors i think that ruined where the playerbase , a good example is that a dev got harassed and pinged so much for changed a talent card with +5 hp to no hp - it was changed back, another one was exploiters would always ruin exploration and zart , one of the builders never really wanted to add neat things so he gave up . the playerbase DOESNt want this game to be a rogue like. its both that the game benefits nothing from permadeath and that the community is just weird
No, it was never a rogue like. People will scream about how verse 1 was harder or more hardcore. And in some respect, that’s true. It took even longer to progress, about 4x more, was a complete slog, no qol, and constant pvp was encouraged through luck and practically needed for a good build.
If you like this sort of game, great, good on you. But that’s not what a rogue like is. It was still just a MMORPG with permadeath just randomly stuck onto it, even more so since the progression was even longer.
@@wood5596before release it looked fit perma death more (back when it had a whole different style)
Then they went into mmo
@@wood5596 People will scream that rogue lineage was hardcore and a "true" roguelite when even that's a stretch. Rogue genuinely had such a weak base, the "lineage" part was barely existent besides your race, spawning with mana, unlockable races and like 2 artifacts (heirloom was when the lineage part peaked lmfao). The rogue part at least was justified by the classes, which I think are the strongest part of rogue lineage. The class system truly allowed for unique playstyles and movesets, which in turn made the stupid stun/ragdoll based combat a little more diverse (hence people only play the game for the combat now).
Deepwoken lacked any form of class definition besides your weapon, attunement and oath (which allowed for so many combinations that there was no identity). Even attunement paths feel very inconsequential, you're still playing the same way overall.
Rogue lineage became a pathetic game, and deepwoken tried to emulate it. Hence, it had a rotten foundation.
@@pantommy they should've just made it a soulslike game instead of a rougelike game tbh
I started playing deepwoken at release with access to enchants which were impossible to get (tainted sorrow) and dupes, which is why I was really interested in playing it. A couple of weeks ago I was interested in the mechanics of silence ability of Silentheart and I decided after a huge period of time to return to this game, and how terrible it is in terms of combat. you simply cannot win some matchups due to the fact that your build is simply weaker against a certain matchup. Constant ping spikes, and unfortunately this happened not only to me, but also to my friends with whom I played all the time. I hope DW developers someday reads at least something about game optimization.
@@daq-ua build simulator it is then ig?
Maybe don't force me to pay for a glorified slot machine that resets my progress due to me having slightly worse luck than the 35 year old no life@@daq-ua
Not simple.
@@daq-ua
you have two options, make up a new build and it gets wiped by the guy with the meta build, or make the meta build and have it get nerfed in a week and make a new one.@@daq-ua
@@daq-uaDumbass. That isn't how you make good PVP actually good. Essentially proving Deepwoken's pvp is dogshit, albeit unique - still dogshit.
one thing I noticed as a relatively new player is that I can never bring myself to try to do layer 2. There is so much new content and bosses I could fight but it feels that I would need to open the wiki every 2 mins and without it i'd die some stupid way that could've been easily avoided. Also Layer 2 has so much content and kinda cool bosses other then small attack variety, but the rewards arent that great so the risk of wiping is never worth it so i'll plobaly never get to experince those bosses without a maxed out friend helping me along the way. If they could change the risk, or the rewards, or not needing the wiki to beat layer 2 or a video open on the side, I feel it could be alot better. Many things in layer 2 just seem not neccasary and confusing and litteraly impossible to figure out without wiping many times or a friend, or of course the wiki. Bosses are pretty much required to be fought many times over, think if they made a boss that you had to learn the attacks mid-fight (of course the attacks can't be too confusing) and then you progress only having to fight him once (maybe to unlock a ability or progress the story}. I don't think anyone thought there first time fighting chaser was boring, because you don't know what to expect and your always on edge. That dopamine you get when you beat him is worth the terrifying close calls, but of course after the first time fighting him you know what to expect and now its just a battle against ping not a demonic blood lord. The ping affects gameplay so much that its hard to fight any boss without getting a random lag spike that makes it impossible to do anything, but watch in terror. One thing holding back the bosses is they always rely on parrying or dodges and it's never unique exsept for some rare acations. I wish the bosses had more phases, and I mean an actual new phase not just the same attacks again but the ceiling is now gone. Like imagine your fighting a new boss with your friends and you finally got his health to 0 after a close call, so you start to celebrate with your friends until a cutscene plays and bro grows massive wings and health is back to 100. Of course this would only ever work in the overworld cuz who would ever fight a boss without there research with the risk of wiping. Deepwoken should do something simmilar to "Lore Game" where they activly discurage spoilers. The lore of Deepwoken opens up for some AMAZING boss ideas, yet its like they forgot about the fun of fighting new bosses and now are instead trying to make the fastest way to gain the best weapons for experienced players. Things like health poisons would be cool for overworld if they where completly reworked to be simillar to dark souls and sekiro. This would make the risk way less and way safer for new players to explore. They need to reward people who explore more somehow. sorry for spelling mistakes im too lazy to fix them Mhvghchvjbkyfiukghvggbcvas
just realized how messy this comment is oof, anyways I only started playing like 5 months ago so I may be wrong about a lot of stuff so feel free to comment if I got something wrong
Heres the same comment but you wont die trying to read it
One thing I noticed as a relatively new player is that I can never bring myself to try to do layer 2.
There is so much new content and bosses I could fight but it feels that I would need to open the wiki every 2 mins and without it i'd die some stupid way that could've been easily avoided.
Also Layer 2 has so much content and kinda cool bosses other then small attack variety, but the rewards arent that great so the risk of wiping is never worth it so i'll plobaly never get to experince those bosses without a maxed out friend helping me along the way.
If they could change the risk, or the rewards, or not needing the wiki to beat layer 2 or a video open on the side, I feel it could be alot better.
Many things in layer 2 just seem not neccasary and confusing and litteraly impossible to figure out without wiping many times or a friend, or of course the wiki.
Bosses are pretty much required to be fought many times over, think if they made a boss that you had to learn the attacks mid-fight (of course the attacks can't be too confusing) and then you progress only having to fight him once (maybe to unlock a ability or progress the story}.
I don't think anyone thought there first time fighting chaser was boring, because you don't know what to expect and your always on edge.
That dopamine you get when you beat him is worth the terrifying close calls, but of course after the first time fighting him you know what to expect and now its just a battle against ping not a demonic blood lord.
The ping affects gameplay so much that its hard to fight any boss without getting a random lag spike that makes it impossible to do anything, but watch in terror.
One thing holding back the bosses is they always rely on parrying or dodges and it's never unique exsept for some rare acations. I wish the bosses had more phases, and I mean an actual new phase not just the same attacks again but the ceiling is now gone.
Like imagine your fighting a new boss with your friends and you finally got his health to 0 after a close call, so you start to celebrate with your friends until a cutscene plays and bro grows massive wings and health is back to 100.
Of course this would only ever work in the overworld cuz who would ever fight a boss without there research with the risk of wiping.
Deepwoken should do something simmilar to "Lore Game" where they activly discurage spoilers. The lore of Deepwoken opens up for some AMAZING boss ideas, yet its like they forgot about the fun of fighting new bosses and now are instead trying to make the fastest way to gain the best weapons for experienced players. Things like health poisons would be cool for overworld if they where completly reworked to be simillar to dark souls and sekiro. This would make the risk way less and way safer for new players to explore. They need to reward people who explore more somehow. sorry for spelling mistakes im too lazy to fix them Mhvghchvjbkyfiukghvggbcvas
what is lil bro yapping about
@@OogaBoooogause light hook in castle light, for 20mins if you die in layer 2 you go back up.
dawg I am NOT reading allat
The devs seem to refuse to learn from other devs.
Hell, if I'm not mistaken, HOURS' ai is fully available, it doesn't fit everything, sure, but it's good and it's there to learn from.
HOURS ai doesn't parry block or dodge it literally just uses moves
and it's a singleplayer game so they can do everything on the client if the my want it's not the same
he didnt mean fucking steal the whole code and paste it onto npcs, he meant for them to actually LEARN HOW TO PROGRAM from looking at how it works instead of just throwing shit at the wall@@niro-007
@@RevenantNeverDies Hours ai is so simple if anything deepwoken's is more complex with them being able to parry
and coding fighting AIs is not hard, I've made a good one myself
Also don't go around talking shit about the devs ability to program if you don't even know an inch of Lua. I highly doubt you know the amount of work and organisation it takes to make a real game.
@@niro-007Ronin Alpha
@@niro-007 Ronin Alpha
Deadass 20 seconds in and this video is already looking glorious.
Don't know who u are and I've never seen a vid from u in my life but ik for sure im subbing to see what u make next. Good job king
exactly
The glazing is crazy
Dis is dickriding
@@wordfr Said deepwoken player glazing deepwoken:
@@wordfrcant show support ever nowadays 😩😩😩
the intro more creative than the entirety of deepwoken
meh
wait till bro finds out about the kodiak deepwoken...
Ur content is naughty
Hope this blows up, video was really well edited and your points make sense
I love deepwoken and I'd hate to see it die but it's not looking good at all these days
On god
be frl yk deepwoken isnt gonna die
it is looking good
Let’s be honest it’s not gonna die any time soon. The player count is at an all time high
What IS lost is the actual direction of the game and charm they had while making and releasing it. Expect more k1 Anime slop cause that’s all that guy knows how to make. Ragoozer is already on another game.
@@wood5596 I seem to have not worded what a meant properly, but I agree 100%
my comment hasn't aged well at all though, considering the tweaks made to help out the high ping players and the actually original new content they added (maestro boss)
its crazy how if you watch some dw youtubers, you can sorta hear them just not be interested in the video half the time.
i wonder if the devs will ever listen to the smart people that actually want to fix the game
Except those "smart people" have no coding skills or experience in game development and aren't the ones actually making the game. Said game also has 30k players.
if you disagree, counter with your own opinions. just because someone isnt a game developer doesnt mean they cant critique a game lol @@Sc5ch
@@incription Show me where I said "you or any of those people cant have an opinion/critique a game". I simply what I think. He gave his opinion and I gave mine. If you're illiterate, you shouldn't be acting like a Voice of Authority. (Talking to you)
You made it seem like the person who posted the video's points are irrelevant because he isnt a game dev or a programmer (which he is btw). Maybe you could be more clear?@@Sc5ch
@@incription I said smart people, meaning as a general collective, not targeting him specifically. There are a lot of people who indeed don't know half of what they're saying or at least why things are the way they are.
"M1s are unpunishable"
Maybe cuz unlike other fighting games, M1s aren't true and don't lead to true combos that deal half or more of your health.
For any smartasses:
He's not a permafreshie, he displays maxed out builds with oaths and enchanted/legendary weapons and displays fighting as a voidwalker as well. Secondly there is yellow text when discussing the XP and progression that states he does not care if you have some stupid 1 hour max build method.
1. having a maxed out build doesn't mean he's not a permafreshie, i've seen tons of maxed out players that don't know how to press the f key, being a voidwalker doesn't maker you a non permafreshie either, since I've fought so many voidwalkers that can't do anything but jump people for their life.
@@Dumm0ut A freshie is a state of progression, what you're referring to is lack of skill. They are not the same.
An easy example, I'm not gonna look at someone in fully decked out equipment and say "freshie", they're just a bad player.
@@urdad7349 yea that's how i know you're not a actual deepwoken player, if you even played deepwoken for more than 100 hours you'd know what a permafreshie is. Freshie and permafreshie are 2 different things
@@urdad7349 don't comment shit about the game when you've barely even played it
@@Dumm0ut I've been playing since release, I'm sorry I don't use silly slang and made up phrases to boost some tiny ego.
doing 10 ferrymans every time i want to progress with the simple flaw on a voidwalker slot makes me want to voluntarily sit on an electric chair and press the button myself
Honestly deepwokens bosses would be fine if it wasn't the fact that retrying them didn't send u back to a town islands away or sending you straight to the depths. like im more discouraged going to the depths than the exp or loot from primadon, especially when i have no friends to at least help me fight some of them or make the grinding more fun
I agree with your intitial points about combat a lot. The gameplay is good, but its too fast and relies on reaction timing too much. Fights are much more enjoyable when theyre slower paced for example two heavy weapon freshies fighting each other. I remember when the game first came out it was so fun fighting people with just a sword, with strategic feinting and ranging, now it just feels like spamming moves and tanking hits faster than your opponents
yeah i'd rather the game be m1 based than it being mantra based. i recently progressed a no mantra build, voidwalked with nothing but a darksteel gs, and it was some of the most fun i'd ever had with deepwokens combat. it really opened my eyes as to how much worse the combat got from verse 1 to 2
@@koenigseggpeta4360 the combat is fine the builds are not, early verse 2 still had that m1 based fight but then they started to gut no attunement and buff mantras (songchant, prophet cloak and the 90 int talents)
@@babaloons4887 One of the problems are that more mantras/moves should have higher parry stun example: shattered katana crits first swing doesn't even have parry stun so yeah
Deepwoken was much more fast paced in v1
@@Ritheix not true at all 💀
Honestly if they want to fix these things they’ve pretty much got to rework most of the game. And it has quite a big player base who wouldn’t really like that and enjoy the game as it is I’d recommend making a new project instead.
That's quite basically Rogue Lineage for you, mate.
@@LazikkSkeluś rouge lineage was before deep. I’m talking a whole new one with all the things he mentioned in the video
@@Danyardrat not worth all the drama tbh, the community will go fucking wild if they start working on something like deepwoken 2 or whatever, some of deep devs started working on a small game recently and people started to say a bunch of shit already ☠
@@babaloons4887 imo it’s worth it. I couldn’t care less about the drama as long as we get a very good game
@@babaloons4887Because Roblox's community, Deepwoken in _particular,_ is made solely of drooling baboons. They don't even count as human, I'll be frank with you. Every single one of them, instead of actually being _aware_ of the game's flaws, instead vouches for blindly defending the game and actually going on manhunts when someone speaks out against the hivemind. Looks like Germany has some competition.
conquest will save deepwoken... i know it will... nevermind...
deepwoken 2... will save deepwoken... i know it will...
Glad i'm seeing a lot of the problems with the game being brought up. To me, the largest problem with Deepwoken's identity - it lost it entirely. Deepwoken used to be a gritty, lore-focused RPG, already on the decline with that identity comparing release vs. the direct. The direction that deepwoken has taken is shocking, honestly. They've completely separated themselves from the gritty, slow and calculated combat RPG with perma death and mystery to now literally just being GPO in Ragoozer's universe. The progression is unbearable, the lore is cool but never explored, the quests are disappointing, the faction interaction is non-existent, exploration is disappointing, and now they're introducing Domain Expansions, Anime Mantras like Sukuna's Flame Arrow, and Battle Royale? It truly feels like they've let the wrong people into the dev team and the wrong people influence the direction of the game. That's just my perspective on it, though. They might have always wanted the game to end up like this, but it never seemed like it from the Direct and all the hollow promises they made.
Yeah, I've been telling people the game having permadeath doesn't work in the slightest especially on Roblox with all its jank (Ping, flinging, physics, ect.) and it's just wasting our time so they can essentially fill their pockets.
The fact one little mistake can kill you is also stupid as it's kind of hard to learn what to do in a fight when you die as soon as smth goes wrong. (You don't even know what went wrong most the time tho)
If it was because of money they wouldnt be making paid resurections a one thing per build only
@@aank8335
(Upcoming readable and actually comprehensible comment. I know how you Deepwoken players hate to read something aside from "Power 20 bell bell Depths Ethiron Wipe Freshie", so I placed this warning here just for you! Aren't I just so kind and caring?)
The fact they exist in the slightest still makes it stick out like a sore thumb. Yes, it could be worse. It's only _hot garbage,_ right!? At least the entire dumpster isn't on fucking fire, RIGHT!? NO! It's still a cash-grab anyways. It doesn't matter if they drain your wallet slower, they're still only after your _money,_ not your actual care and love.
Now, if this were applied to anything else, like Destiny 2 for example, you'd still jump in the creators' shit because they're deliberately going for a cash-grab. _Why is Deepwoken different in any regard, then?_ It doesn't matter who or what makes it. If it's a cash-grab, there isn't any excuse for that.
...Though, if you want to keep bending yourself over backwards for pretty old Deepwoken, be my guest. When the game dies, don't come crying to _anyone_ about your lost money. That's _your_ financial decisions. That's _your_ money (or, knowing these people, your parents' money) down the drain. You spent it, and the only person you'll be able to blame in the end is _yourself._
@@axain7784 🐺
@@axain7784Actually yeah youre right, my bad
It makes even more sense that it is a crash grab when you remember that the devs dont play the game and wont change the weekly updates schedule that is taking the soul out of the content lol
@@axain7784Deepwoken has sincerely made me lose all trust in their shitty dev team. Especially after Rogue Lineage (being a later player before deepwoken's release); which charged you for gambling your base race which could ultimately make or break your build, had a community I'd personally say as toxic as rust because of the abundance of unattended crotchspawn, and the fact the only way you could feasibly play the game is by logging out extensively when you're progressing or flat out being in a guild that would abuse sheer number of members alone to allow others to progress.
Deepwoken, albeit an improvement to development compared to Rogue still falls into a similar trap of the previous game in terms of game design to the point where it re-cultivated the community from Rogue Lineage which finally drove me away from Monad's games and anything they happen to create.
On the trial of one thing, ADRET, that shit is broken with it, wanna skip HALF your progression? Go adret with the autodidact boon, you legit exit at level 10 meaning if you have a build that shrines at let's say lvl 12-13, you flat out skipped almost all of the grind pre-shrine, and you only gotta prog way less than half the time it'd take usually
they patched that u cant do that anymore\
@@AmA-bw9px idk how you'd "patch" something that anit a bug, there was a similar thing where you could use training gear in the trial of one to get extra stats, but that was patched
They added a cap to your level in trial. @@Crimson0047
Yes, you make skip out on a bit of progression, but it's literally just a small bit considering the fact that early game does not require as much exp. Towards lvl 13 - 15 you'll actually see an exp decline if you are not actually doing anything. Besides, people complain about progression being too long, and when the devs actually give you an option to make it faster as long as you know the basics of pve, people like you complain about "skipping half the progression".
They have been nerfed this trial of one caps at level 8 if you make it to level 8 you won’t be able to rest and level up after the trials anymore
This vid is mostly good but here's some things I noticed in the combat section:
1. Verse 2 is supposed to feel strange and otherworldly. I mean it literally uses synths in the soundtrack. This doesn't help the fact that verse 2 is the most formulaic part of the game and I agree with the overall point of aesthetic degradation but the aesthetic of layer 2 itself is fine.
2. The guy at 13:22 was not "forced to dodge". You feinted and then your opponent dodged before you actually did anything. This exact exchange is the primary example of of somebody getting read/outplayed (which has nothing to do with reaction times). If your opponent had faster reactions, then he would've just rolled earlier and still got hit by the move. You also said that the skill ceiling is too low but this is a prime example of something that sets low elo players apart from high elo ones.
3. 13:38 You complained about combat being less about timing your parried and more about just parrying when the opponent swings (which makes you more susceptible to feints but that's another topic) and then you complain about a mechanic that punishes you for timing your parried too late/spamming block.
4. 13:47 All of the things you are complaining about are failsafes. Getting your block hit punishes you because you're supposed to parry or dodge. If you get feinted and miss a parry, you can dodge, if you dodge too early (like the guy in the previous clip) you can take the hit then parry/block, if you parry too early you can vent. All of these things exist so that you do still get punished but to varying degrees depending on how well you can react. Things like chip damage and certain talents do negate these to an extent, but not fully and you have to sacrifice other things in order to use them. Collapsed lung, for example, prevents venting but only in certain cases and it takes 100 points. Chip damage bypasses block, but not fully and you need to trade off things like damage and penetration. Point being: you are supposed to parry, but if you don't, then there are other opportunities to lessen the punishment.
5. You said earlier in the video that 8 hours is too long for permadeath but there are a plethora of popular roguelikes that take longer than/similar to 8 hours per run.
Overall you made a lot of good points but I don't think that Deep's gameplay is inherently contradictory/flawed. I think if they actually focused on adding new areas, bosses, enemies etc (even small stuff) as opposed to flame mantra #83, it could actually maintain that aspect of adventure and exploration even for longtime players. I also don't feel like the community coming together to share info goes against the spirit of the game since that's exactly what made it intriguing on release (punchee and agamatsu needs delete their fuckin channel tho it fr pisses me off)
ty for ur feedback but i feel like i should emphasize that, like i said in the video, the points about getting your parry baited and the punishment for mistiming a parry aren't the inherent problems with the combat, it's the fact that those are the *only* forms of punishment due to offensive tools being very safe. the point about me catching that guy with the multihitting move isn't really about me reading/outplaying him as much as it's me feinting, him using his parry, being forced to roll, and then him getting clipped because he roll cancelled. there is an element of skill/knowledge to know to either full dodge or block in that situation, but it's so small and binary that once you learn that situation it's effectively "solved", which is why i feel there's almost nothing to learn about the combat once you hit the level of competency (the skill floor)
@@tobafanpagewdym that's the "only form of punishment"? If someone messes up and u hit them up can combo into it and if they're good they'll get out of the combo it's simple. The guy you clipped in the video could've just parried out of roll cancel if he paid attention to ur animations, or if he had ghost he would've dodged all of it.
if anyone disagrees go a build without guard breaks for a month
W yap session this is more or less my critiques on the vid aswell
blud was a little too derivative too
also i cant 100% tell if the point of this was moreso on the "shitting on the devs" side or the "ultimately comes from a place of love for the game and the hope that it improves" side, if it were to lean more positive, i can't really blame bro for being pessimistic and jaded
@@Ashes612 if they're good they'll get out of the combo? no, it's just whether they press g or not 😭
it should tell you how bad and boring the exploration and getting around is when both legendary bells completely negates 90% of the exploration
Lmao hes right yall the devs gave zero shits that the games network will literally make the game unplayable. Good devs either come up with a solution, or build around it. The devs did neither. They overload the roblox servers and the game suffers as a result. But hey, some people will play it anyway and they'll still make money!
Roblox is 90% of the reason to why this happens, the engine they use is hella outdated and its not made for a competitive scenario
@@Goofyahhlofi Yeah ik. Then u don't make that type of game on roblox. Devs didn't care tho because they'll make money from the rogue lineage audience.
@@uberboat4512good eye, hard to find people who can see this type is stuff.
This was a very interesting video! Though i disagree that the game isnt fun, at least for now as a relatively newer player, i understand all your points. Though id prefer if you better incorporated those smaller points you displayed as text into your script or make them last longer or something. Its a bit of a hassle to rewind and pause to read them all.
Just you wait
This guy is about to get stomped on by a voidwalker using skills hes never even encountered before
@the_atoms5242 what does that have to do with anything I said? I've been playing long enough to wipe like 75 times, I ain't afraid of a voidwalker. Even if they do win, it's just experience to get better
@@dominicballinger6536 75 times 💀
Well at least ur havin fun, was just making a joke
@@the_atoms5242 ah, sorry
this game was marketed as NOT ROGUE LINEAGE before it came out, and coming back since launch its basically just turned into rogue lineage.
This video is amazing, thank you, editing is perfect, and I really like hearing peoples thoughts on stuff, especially when its so obvious but yet not so obvious. Great job man :)
Remember when ferryman was bugged out and gave absolutely no bell progress, but when they fixed it they also simultaneously added a voidsea mechanic that made him inaccessible 80% of the time, and only a WEEK AFTER they removed it?
the game punishes you for exploring and god forbid pressing the interact button and rewards you for stealing/following a yt tutorial.
and everything you mentioned is something they control something they can change, what about ping what about the fact that roblox is a shitty platform, what about the community(I know you touched on it in chime but this doesn't scratch the surface of how sad the DWK community is).
it's a real shame since playing this game especially early release weeks were some of the most fun I've had in roblox.
Okay I went over the progression portion of the video and I have some things to say but first let me just say this is the first video I've seen on your channel and you have this really unique style of doing video essays that makes me feel nostalgic for some reason, it's like something I would have seen airing at 3AM on some random ass cable channel when I was sick and in middle school. Honestly it's a great vibe and I'm definitely gonna sub to see more of what you got cookin'.
However that doesn't mean I entirely agree with you. I'd like to highlight a few key points related to the Trial of One, the goal of Deepwoken, new player experience, exploration, and options for reworking the game.
Starting with the Trial of One my problem with it has largely been fixed, the lone warrior origin pretty much unlocks itself now and since it's not as hidden as it used to be it's no longer a secret power boost and more of a test to allow you to skip redoing areas and enemy types over and over again. For example if you're efficiently farming lower Erisia you'll probably mostly be fighting Bandits (glorified parry practice), Megalodaunts, Golems, and Angels. The trial of one's first half has you doing just that, you fight enemies in the order you're supposed to learn to fight them in the game but it's thrown at you far more rapidly. The Trial of One is more of a placement test than anything.
Moving on to the goal of Deepwoken I have to disagree that it's exclusively about character creation both for personal reasons and from who I've met playing the game. Deepwoken and Realm of the Mad God are extremely similar games in the way that they work, except that Deepwoken is a Roblox game and has PvP. Some people might want to get every oath at least once, others might be lorenuts and go around everywhere finding every piece of information on the world the game has to offer to piece everything together, some might exclusively focus on climbing the PvP ladder, and some might focus on speedrunning to power 20 or through a questline, and those are all vastly different goals. For me I just want to be able to get every oath and beat every major boss and if I continue the game from there I'll focus on getting faster at acquiring the oaths and then focus on PvP and build creation because that's the kind of player I am. But every now and then even someone like me will slow down and go lore hunting for funsies, or talk to a random NPC just to see what happens.
Those are issues that primarily plague veterans of the game, what about the newbies? I agree the new player experience is awful, it's not just that you're thrust in a world you need to explore but you're thrust into that world with no purpose, no final goal. Even in the most comparable game to Deepwoken in my experience (RotMG) they tell you "Oryx is a bad guy, mess 'em up." Giving you even a small goal like pushing you towards a questline featuring a boss would be a HUGE upgrade from just throwing you into a world and sayin' "go nuts."
I actually really like exploring in Deepwoken because I could care less if my characters wipe but that's just me. The main argument to be made here is that people will explore new areas for a variety of reasons and I'll list a few: bragging rights, hunting for lore, acquiring something new added to the game if applicable, or just scratching that itch for new content to play through (boredom). I do agree that I wish there were more elements of exploration in the game though as I spent a few hours exploring and I've seen everything besides layer 2 floor 2.
I don't like the idea of removing permadeath as I feel that is part of what makes Deepwoken meaningful and special but your idea for rising and sinking islands so long as some locations are kept relatively/generally consistent? Beautiful. Additionally implementing things like dungeons that randomize with more bosses and challenges could be super cool too! Could you imagine a RAID in Deepwoken? Currently the closest thing you have to that is hellmode in the depths.
Finally and most pointedly I want to talk about the game's programming and networking a bit as a game dev myself, granted I haven't released any games because half way through working on them I improve a lot and scrap the game entirely, bad habit I know. I agree with your claim that Deepwoken should keep more interactions client sided, especially since for smaller enemies such as bandits collaborative elements of combat have more to do with both of you dealing damage to or staggering the bandit and those states could be kept track of separately and positions could be synced more subtly later. What I don't like about your comment is the idea that this is extremely easy to do because when switching things between client and server side there are elements of your game to consider like: Do I need all enemies to be in the same position for all players all the time? If not how often should I try to resync these positions and values? Should bosses be more server sided due to the fact that they are a more collaborative element of the game? Does that imply bigger creatures should be kept server side? And those are just all of the basic game design decisions, I'm actually pretty bad at network code and couldn't imagine keeping track of all of that and interfacing that with ROBLOX SERVERS. I think it is valid to say the developers are not skilled enough to pull this off because clearly the game still has strange lag spikes and performs wildly inconsistently, but I do think it's unfair to say "just do this thing" when it may have already been considered and either significantly impacted gameplay or performance. For example in your pinned comment "literally all you have to do is add a preset delay for EVERY player's inputs, basically making everyone have an effective ping of 80ms or whatever you set the delay to (subtract the delay by their ping obviously)" I personally haven't tried implementing this into my games but it sounds very similar to the concept of delta time (client sided, deals with lag) which is probably already built in to the game and if it isn't frankly it really should be. Optimizing these things in theory sounds easy enough to do but it can get really messy depending on the scale you implement it on.
God damn I yapped a lot. I am not rereading all of that for errors feel free to call me out and I'll edit this :)
1. I love your editing style. It's actually *incredible.*
2. Monad Studios has been struggling with these problems since Rogue Lineage, and Deepwoken was supposed to "fix" the bad parts of Rogue. But it didn't. And you point this out---you point out that the game design, the *lineart,* is neglected, while the balancing and other *details* are revamped and revamped and revamped, and that leads to a blotchy, colorful and vomit-looking painting.
Thank you for pointing out the flaws in their game design.
this video's art direction is better than what all of deepwoken has to offer
what sucks the most is that deepwoken easily has hundreds of hours of content if you play it blindly, not accounting replayability, and even just the removal of permadeath could solve a ton of issues regarding the game because you would atleast have great opportunities to learn from losses instead of just straight up getting your character wiped
i feel like one of my issues with deepwoken is voidwalkers
i'm a primarily pve based player (so i am just not good at pvp at all) but i still get jumped by voidwalkers and lose a life
it feels like im constantly being jumped by voidwalkers and to be honest just players who don't gain anything at all, and my friend recently got deepwoken, and complained how people get punished for learning the game by wiping and progressing feels like a chore right now and i hope it doesn't stay that way because i actually used to enjoy deepwoken
one of the other problems i see with deepwoken is the ocean like the ships are unbearably buggy and slow, and the actual sea is just drop dead boring
like you stated at 8:20, i've seen so many freshies who have absolutely no clue how to get into trial, not to mention the doors just don't work, which because i feel like if youre a new player you'd think the cathedral gates in the depths would open instead of having to get on the buildings and climb the wall
i really liked this video i've been feeling off about deepwoken for some time, but i've never been able to really put it into words
also the intro goes hard ty man
get good thats the problem
@@wiztrash9530Deepwoken player when different opinion:
i've been waiting for a video like this to come out for the longest time, because for that same amount of time, whenever deepwoken is brought up, i always rant so hard about how it is a fundamentally flawed game on a conceptual level. as you said, you're not supposed to monotonously spend so much absurd lengths of time just for the chance to have it ripped away from you at any moment. there's a reason why games with lengthy progression, like elden ring, don't feature something so stupid. plus, as you also said, roguelikes INCENTIVISE death. death has genuine benefits, and starting fresh is ALWAYS fun.
i'm always convinced that the permadeath and rampant pvp (alongside how flawed the fighting system is) is deeply rooted in the fact that roblox is an unnecessarily and horrifically toxic cesspool when it comes to ANYTHING competitive. you won't see as much genuine animosity and uncalled-for rudeness anywhere else than in roblox, and it really shows. take a look at the fgc, the community that arguably knows healthy competition the best. nobody normal there is talking trash because everybody has been through the same experiences and WANT to help other people with what they're struggling with. so, therefore, i firmly believe that permadeath exists solely as a tool to gloat and make others feel miserable.
Yes.
A lot of the balancing issues comes from the fact that they do weekly updates (and they only work on the game when they want) so they don't have time to test everything since they need to do bug fixes and stuff, and nerfs/buffs from the last few updates
So this means that your build will be overpowered for a week, horrible for a week or 2, and then MAYBE it becomes decent but by then your being destroyed by the new op stuff which follows the same loop
To be completely honest:
For removing Permadeath, I thought up one concept years ago. It was called Depths Chain (or something else I forgot), but when you died in the Depths, instead of wiping, you were chained down as a spirit, unable to resurface. Here is when wiping would be an option by speaking to Yun'shul (or something else), but alternatively, you could search for a key to break your chains, or pass the chains on to another player of equal power.
There was more to it than that, but the basic premise still stands. I've been saying this for YEARS.
ngl that sounds good ima screenshot it for later if need be
bro do you know how op people would be? and there would just be no risk
@@amazingboi9388this game isn't a rogue like. risk is gone
15:10 implementing a system where u cant block or anything after a feint isnt too hard
js get the animation length when the m1 is played
```
local AnimationLength : number = M1Animation.Length
```
when the plr feints save the time position of the animation at where they feinted
```
StoppedTimePosition = M1Animation.TimePosition
```
have a blooean value get set to true when a move becomes lethal otherwise stay false and when the animation ends just check if the move was lethal before it got cancelled and add end lag of however much time was left in the animation like so
```
if not Hit then
local RemaningTime = AnimationLength - StoppedTimePosition
task.wait(RemaningTime)
end
```
rlly dont understand wut part of this is so hard to implement that they havent done it already lol
Getting paid to do something you enjoy actually makes you enjoy it much less, there have been studies on this and I can speak from personal experience. I enjoy the progression, and I'm not even good at it, because I play the game to have fun instead of to make some crazy build or make money or whatever.
When you focus on the end goal too much the journey feels like an obstacle, even though the journey is the most important part to enjoy.
that cowboy bebop intro must have taken a while
it can definitely work if they add questlines, easier travel between luminants, more luminants, more beginner friendly content and direction, etc.
@hroud7318 its not very well designed of the game to make you to go *very far* to teleport somewhere. and even then the teleports in hive only got like 2 actual place to teleport to and teleporting back to hive requires you to go run around and find another shrine anyway (which takes almost just as much time).
@asianshroud7318 aint nobody doing that shit bro
love it when the years inside the game go by and everything is still the same
im half in the video and i just want to say huge thanks to you bro, i never could express my thoughts well, especially abt something complex like games and explain why i hate them, but this video does everything for me and i love it. you deserve a like buddy
Also something abt chain of perfection. In theory, it sounds like a good idea. Give endgame players a reward for being good at pve. But, almost everyone ive seen play this game got it from sone sort of cheese method rather than actually trying to get the talent that way.
i think this is mostly because of how bad the bosses in this game are, theres really no way to enjoy the boss fights because they're very simple and really easy to learn.. after all most bosses only have 4 moves or sometimes even 3, the bosses don't have any interesting mechanic on their fights to at least make up for the lack of moves, I think a good example is sekiro (Which is the game the combat of deep is based on)
No Hitting Isshin actually brings joy to the player because of the gameplay and how the boss is made, Isshin mixes up many attacks and gives little time for the player to breath and recover their posture, keeping the player in the edge of missing the parry and getting block broken, and of course the way isshin changes his whole moveset mid fight giving him a new weapon, a long ranged attacks, fast barrages, fast and slow mixups, unparryable attacks making the player decide if he should dodge or mikiri depending on the move, then at his last phase adding the mechanic from Genichiro giving him the ability to use a thunder strike to power up one of his attacks making the player react fast and remember what he was teached about how to counter a thunder strike, isshin in his last phase does many mixups and sometimes after a certain mixup he will follow up with a fast thunder strike, Isshin is a test of all you've learned through your hours in the game, you'll need to react fast, remember his moves, be aware of the mechanics you we're teached, attack, counter attack and learn the openings of the boss, doing all of this steps and maybe more.
(if you wish to kill isshin using your shinobi techs and prostetic arm, making the boss fight more fun but harder) all 3 of his phases, making him an actual enjoyable boss to fight.
Now lets stop this little glazing session for isshin as a boss and think of a solution for the problem of bosses
It's actually ''kinda simple'' And no, it's not giving the bosses only 4 moves more making 2 parryable moves and 2 moves you need to dodge
It's actually making a fight fitting for the boss, adding mechanics to the fight and make the player actually feel joy from beating said boss
For example, Primadon could have an underwater section on his bossfight, since after all hes kinda like a fish and lives underwater giving him the advantage, the fight could start like normal you just fight primadon a little bit on the ground, and then after certain ammount of damage he will enter his rage mode making him go through the big branches of trees on the arena, jumping and using them to move around the arena like a monkey would, he would throw rocks at you and sometimes do a small jump towards the player making primadon try to catch the player with his hand, the grab will not be able to be parried or dodged but instead need to be countered, before primadon does this move he will be jumping around the arena on the tree branches and throwing rocks, to avoid making primadon use the grab on you, you would need to jump on the small lake that theres in the arena and find a giant broken spear on the bottom of the lake, you would need to take the tip of the giant spear and carry it out of the water, and wait for primadon to do his grab, the moment he does the grab you would press m1 while you're carrying the spear and impale it on his hand making primadon unable to jump on the tree branches anymore. after that Primadon would pull out the tip of the spear out of his hand and then sink his own island and get you on his ''domain'' where he could do small lunges towards you that you would need to dodge or get grabbed by his mouth and get massive damage from him, there could be quick time event to avoid some part of the damage so it doesn't do so much, to counter this phase of his fight you would need to get out of the water and jump on his spawner (The big campfire above the arena where you put the umbral obisdian to spawn him) and try to beat him, in this part of the fight you wouldn't be able to attack him unless you posture broke him making him tired and hold to the ledge, letting you get hits in.
After that he would stand back up still a bit tired and rip off the ledge where you're standing taking you back inside the water.
I would add more to this idea but after all a dev won't see this and it's just an example of how to make the fights more entretaining by changing up the gameplay a little bit (of course this is nothing like isshin ashina from sekiro but you gotta understand that this is roblox and deepwoken is being made by arch, rag, zerl and other people. NOT Fromsoftware) Since primadon is a big monster boss, a boss fight similar to the god of war 2 first boss fight but still maintaining the original some of the original idea with some sections where you're meant to dodge and parry.
it doesnt matter if ur a good player if u have at least one lag spike per minute, say goodbye to doing a no hit run
@@jkeebla ^, had to cheese, no way I am doing no hit when I lag spike once every half a minute minimum, even with cheese I had to keep dodging, failed twice because I lag spiked exactly when I wanted to dodge
you've pretty much been able to sum up what i thought the core issues of the game have been for years in a ~20 minute video
really well-done, great editing style
i don't think they'll ever pick rpg or roguelike though
the video production is so beautiful and i don't even know why
I think what pisses me off is that this game is fucking awsome compared to many MMOs especially in roblox standards. Like I would play this shit every day. But they just don't know where they wanna go with the game. So much potential wasted bruh
THANK YOU
Daddy 🙏
I don't want my silly little roblox games to require me to have a masters degree in bullshit and have to pay for it
It's $5
You still have to give a person money to play dumbass@@namaloneditz9416
still could've used that to buy a snickers bar in this economy though@@namaloneditz9416
@@namaloneditz9416 it's also a kids game where a lot of kids don't exactly have much money
@@jaguarndr re consider life if you dont have 5 dollars
been playing deep since it came out 7000+ hours and i still dont ever go to layer 2
HOW do you not get burnt out after hour 3000+ lol
why not lmao
you've played for 1/3rd of its lifetime buddy :D have you seen what the new world looks like?
ur missing out buddy
bro needs a life
i thought the world would make the game but honestly im disappointed the world NEVER changes
with 1000 hours in the same world seeing islands like miner landing and the next half of songseeker was amazing i really do love those parts of the map
Finally, someone on the internet who can validate my beliefs as I yell into the echo chamber
Deepwoken as a whole can be summed up in one statement, "the devs saw x good thing in a great game, but put it in their game without thinking why it worked." They've used or played or heard of a bunch of cool concepts but end up being unable to properly implement it, creating this horrible Frankenstein's Monster of a game that's honestly beyond saving.
I've long since moved away from the game's actual gameplay, I was kinda done with it on month one when I realised the story started and ended with Erisa, ie the first 5 Powers, and the only thing really left is the lore, ONLY THE LORE HAS THE SAME PROBLEM. The initial vision was clearly a Dark Souls - Bloodborne type world but every new addition has made its world so much "brighter" and "jovial" compared to the initial vision, and stuff being reworked on a whim, such as Arch watching Evangelion and deciding to add futuristic mechs to the lore despite the Industrial Era setting, it's honestly so saddening, I feel like I'm witnessing my child being murdered in front of me every week, every lore dump.
Spot on
this intro is a work of art i keep rewatching it
You changed my whole perspective on this game
Picked up Deepwoken after spending roughly 600-800 hours on For Honor. Spent my first 8 hours of the game practicing against the trainers, just to learn that there is zero punish for parry, block is worthless, and the community will just laugh and call it a skill issue when asked for tips. I've played a myriad of other fighting games and never had an issue learning them like Deepwoken.
hes flooding my house with facts
as a deepwoken yter i just play for the pve at this point. w rank was fun but the echo system is so useless once its done, they haven't updated it in a long time and im sitting on 3.5k echoes with absolutely 0 usage other than passing down enchants / legendaries (which rarely ever happens). this is the only roguelike part of the game and there’s nothing branched out on it past echo upgrades
even then the recent pve content (diluvian) just throws mobs at the player and everyone just m1s with brick wall sacred field and calls it a day, and that shit was made in like 4 days by arch
i aint even excited for the conquest part of the big update at this point, game is viciously ping based and if u wanted to play with friends from around the world then good luck trying to win in conquest or any pvp, leading to all my friends just quitting the game and just making jokes on how this weekly update will be massive (added overpowered feature and no cool content)
Anyways please vote Niko the seal for the next Seal of the Year for 2024
I liked the part of Deepwoken allowing creativity in the making of builds, unique and viable, but everytime it happens, these type of builds get nerfed because players couldn't adapt. Take a glance back on how players wanted Ice Blade to stop once you parry it (since it kept going even if you parried it), it was made like that, because players didn't know how to deal with it, that got changed that way, even though Rapid Punches existed.
I seriously never understood why people that fought against Jetstrikers (Jetstriker Momentum didn't stop when you used mantras), never went to the water to avoid that mantra cancel technique.
I've made tons of builds that were REALLY GOOD IN THE OVERWORLD, for later Chime dwellers use certain technique that gets my build butchered and no longer usable for OVERWORLD GANKS. Example:
My build I made was based around a Necromancer build: Blood Shadow could be used with Visionshaper clones AND Lightning Clones, in a perspective, that is really damn overpowered, however, the thing about fighting in the OVERWORLD, is that you will never get a fair fight, you will have to go against multiple people, which made the Necromancer build really viable & balanced.
Chime of Conflict ruined the overworld and the game direction.
ok bro stop playing deepwoken as often damn, maybe you be so bored w it 😭
@@allahman4453 no i come back to deepwoken after a few months and i think it's boring (mostly bc i have to constantly hop servers just to get killed by a voidwalker or i crash when i am fighing in pve)
losing.is.not.fun
@@toniarcilla6591 Wait, so you think chime ruined Deepwoken because it forced the devs to actually balance the game? You admittedly stated that the build was overpowered, yet wanted it to not get nerfed because of the possibility of fighting multiple ppl, ppl who also can use that build or any other overpowered build and make the fight even more one-sided. Realistically, the more balanced builds are in Deepwoken, the more reliable it is to win vs multiple players. Having an op build vs ppl without op builds can level the playing field, but if their builds are also op, it just makes it impossible for you to do anything. When builds are balanced, raw skill becomes a much bigger factor and can make the difference more often. Also, for the part about Jetstriker, needing a certain terrain to be nearby to be able to counterplay a combat mechanic is beyond terrible game design.
I remember you from electric state darkrp
I feel like the old combat would be way better if they just improved on that instead of completely scraping it, its so annoying to play offensively because the defense is the exact same thing every time and it is near impossible to play around it.
They try to parry and if that misses they dodge, if that misses they dodge again and then their parry cd is back, there is just no punishing or counterplay unless it's something they messed up on.
They always said that mantras became really busted so why not just tweak the mantras so it isn't?
Great video and amazing points.
I think it’s either they fix the perma death (checkpoints, more lives, something along those lines) or fix progression (it takes atleast 3 hours to progress, remove “ive learnt what ive can from training, I should put it into practice” and deepwoken’s progression is fixed)
ngl removing that xp cap would be a good step to go into Learning how to work at a better approach to make progression fun
if 3 hours of progress is too much why not play a battlegrounds game instead. deepwoken is an RPG
@er It is an rpg but it is also a roguelike, so the progression needs to vary or else it will get so fucking repetitive people wouldnt want to play again in their life
@aank8335 it does vary to some extent. the only thing that does get pretty stale is leveling since its just grinding mob kills OR grinding player kills, but even that has a decent amount of options on how u want to level. could use meaningful quests that help with leveling tho instead of quests only giving you items or cards or abilities.
but regardless, i really don't think 3 hours is ANY bad at all
@@Rerolfer Yea 3 hours is okay.... but not for a game that is primrally based on wiping AND pvp build making
the idea of someone just wiping you in any moment because of my ping issues out of my control make the game unplayable
The progression we have rn doesnt really belong to a roguelike game because permadeath is not at all related to it, and doing so the build making part is damaged. So the dev either make the craziest changes and fix the execution of those hard to fuse genres or else they just decide for one of those two to take the lead
It is not a bad progression but gets repetitive, has its own flaws and doesnt belong on this type of game
its not just my taste because I like both genres, the execution of the fusion of concepts is whats laking
I love farming on hive with the music and all the mobs and art but I have to admit that the game contradicts itself at times.... voidwalkers being a clear example of this.
Thats why i just gave up playing deep and now im making my own game lol
But I came to the conclution that is so fucking hard to fix a core issue like this that permadeath itself on a build based pvp or on an exploration progresion based game should just be removed
permadeath enjoyers when they're walking on the street and they get robbed and lose all their belongings "ah yes fun"
Deepwoke would've been a lot better if devs actually gave us some lore heavy updates.
Half the playerbase doesn't even know the most basic lore pieces. (Ex. Regent's name and background, Duke's golems, why water can't be an attunement, or even what the Depths is based on)
They literally don't care, they just wanna play the game. It's like why people skip the story in so many games. Lore doesn't bring players.
@@Sc5ch You are almost wrong about lore not bringing players
A book becomes a game, you read the lore (the book) and now you want to see if the game is like the lore.
@speedlife735 Nobody plays a game just because of its lore, lol. Why do you think a good number of people don't even know what Deep's lore is and why people skip dialogue in games. #1 thing that pulls players is gameplay. If you can’t understand that dunno what you're doing in the comments.
@Sc5ch "Lore doesn't bring players" is complete bullshit lmao, sure a story alone probably won't attract everyone but it absolutely plays a massive part if it's part of the design.
The problem with Deepwoken is the game itself tells you fuck all about the world and how it works, for even the most basic details you have to lurk in the Discord and read Google Docs just to learn the reason water attunement can't be a thing is literally just "water bad :(".
@powder479 You seem to not understand that this is Roblox. Look how next to none of the most popular games have basically any lore or story. People just wanna play the game.
I can guarantee that if they were to do a poll saying "Add more lore books" or "Add more cosmetics," cosmetics would win. Deep isn't even supposed to be a story-based game. It's a build-making game. Arch just cooks up lore on the spot when people ask him stuff.
That game called "lore game?" I wonder how many people are playing it? Go play Arcane Odyssey if you want a story-driven game.
I need to say it, OATHS ARE CLASSES FROM ROGUE LINEAGE!!! I mean think about it, your the base class with no oath, your a super class with oath (but none of the upgrades) and your a ultra class with a completed. There are no ubers, just base, super, and ultra.
idk bruh i cant play deep without exploits but i cna play rogue all day without exploitsa nd have the time of my life for the past 4 years. ROGUE > DEPWOKEN SORRY
PREACH KING
Trvth
rogue has focus where deepwoken tries to cater to everyone so honestly yeah
im snorting copium praying they'll continue the lord regent storyline since they dropped a Smidge of lore with the new maestro boss fight 😭i so desperately want for the devs to continue the actual lore/story aspects of the game because they introduce so many cool concepts (at least imo) but never end up doing anything with them! when i bought this game i thought it was right up my alley because i love the kinds of games where you can just get lost in the world for hours, but ever since i started playing at the start of verse 2, nothing substantial was really ever added which is disappointing :( kind of why i decide to usually just write within the world rather than actually play the game LOL
Few weeks late here but I'd also like to include the fact that how Deepwoken operates makes it AGONIZING to just attempt to LEARN the games basic mechanics. If you want to improve at Deepwoken, as you said, you need reaction time. This goes for BOTH PVP AND PVE, which is important because PVE is the entire other half of the game. If you want to even practice parrying, you'll have to struggle and die multiple times due to the varieties of enemies. Let's say you wanted to do trial of one. Now you are practicing it. Each time you die and fail the trial, instead of a simple checkpoint system like non-roguelike games, or a quick return to a main area to quickly start again and get right back into the action, you have to go through this process:
1. Die in the depths, whether it be from falling, from another player, or from a mob. This step can be annoyingly inconvenient at times.
2. Remake your character, maybe you'd want a different build to take on a different challenge since this game is just SOOOO build reliant.
3. Spawn back into the trial after the loading screens, which sounds simple enough, but can be quite annoying after your dozens of attempts start to tear away at your patience.
4. Go through the whole trial again and either A. Die and start this entire process again or B. Beat the trial and finally be free of the process
DO NOTE THIS MEANS YOU HAVE THE OATH ALREADY, if you are a new player trying to get good at the game, or trying to get to the trial, you have to
1. Figure out how the hell your character selection works, and throw something together
2. Get all the items you need to sell in order to reobtain your equipment
3. Move all the way down to the docks from the spawn area
4. Buy and spawn your boat and use it to travel ALLLLL the way to Erisia or the entrance for the trial, IF YOU EVEN KNOW WHERE YOU'RE GOING IN THE FIRST PLACE
5. spend ages looking for enemies to fight or the stronghold holding the trial of one just to get A. sweated by some random asshole or a voidwalker (alternatively you can be ganked instead giving you even less fighting chance) B. killed because you lack PVE experience, or C. die in the trial due to poor PVE experience. No matter what, you gotta repeat the cycle all over again after this for each and every single death, so have fun. Not to mention dying in the trial without the oath causes you to take EVEN LONGER to wipe since, in that case, you'll just get sent back to the overworld with a stained health bar.
oh boy a video tackling a game on roblox
>watches intro
>subs immediately
where do you guys with literal editing talent keep coming from? absolute banger
great video for discussion! just putting my 2 cents out on how to fix the general loop, mixed with some points in the video. This is from the pov of a relatively new player.
1. they DESPERATELY need to make progression take a short time ,1 to 2-ish hours to power 20 max, even if you don't do optimal methods or don't farm bosses for the last few powers. I started playing almost 3 months ago, and barely have the motivation to make builds myself or try new content blind because you lose so much time to wipes. Best recent example is the spit on maestro. did they really need to not only instantly kill you for trying to get 2-3% back, but also send you to the depths instantly along with the flaw AND neutral rep? all punish, no fun, no reward for trial and error. Maestro shouldn't even kill you its a friendly spar >:(
2. remove missed parry stun. Learning pvp is hard enough in a community made up of players who have been training reflex on parries and been cooking up the cheesiest builds possible, but dear lord please don't let me take 40% every time i try to parry late. At least let a homie get a chance to make a mistake and be able to learn how my opponent plays. Only fun when I play in the lamest way possible.
3. saved the best for last, give existing content the love it needs. Bug fixes, developing old content (ironsing eating ores for example), or simply just patching up existing content like adding new weapons to catagories that haven't seen much love (maces) or developing the "quests" the game has into things with more weight than a tiny amount of exp and a mantra or 2 knowledge/extra talent at best. Give some love to the systems you've already made, or at the very least focus on the core of the game by fleshing out what's already been created.
Hate saying this, but great potential, just needs the devs to fumble less hard. I understand how they gotta add new stuff to keep veteran players interested but a game on a platform like roblox is mainly held together by a healthy community (not real) and a cycle of new players joining a game.
I appreciate having at least someone step up and make a video like this, just wish we could have been at a place in time where the talk wasn't so negative.
never had i thought id see the day deepwoken will get a fucking essay video, what a world we live in
nevermind, its more of just rambling 💀
Best intro for a video essay ever lol good job ✨
Honestly quite a few times I've seen bullcrap mid fight that just didn't make sense, and sure some of that happens from me just spacing out or messing smth up, but now that I'm seeing this..... Yeah I'm starting to see why I feel so sad when playing deepwoken even when "winning".
before release, i thought the combat was gonna be based on predicting feints and mixups and stuff like that, but then they added DODGING. when u fall for a feint u literally just press Q and u escape punishment for free. also youre right about the whiff punishing. before deepwoken, i never played any proper fighting games. after deepwoken came out i started playing actual fighting games too and whiff punishing was quite a new concept for me. it would completely change how deepwoken combat works if they add that and PROBABLY for the better. also i thought the reason they made the map island based was so that it was easier to add more areas, but then they only added "new" islands ONCE for verse 2. i believe most of the devs have their own projects and deepwoken isnt even their main focus so idk what they should even do
the game always had dodge what are you yapping a bout LOL
no, dodging was only added like 6 months before release max
Dodging doesn't assure your safety, literally just feint and catch their dodge
@@mumboo430 where did you learn that from? since the first direct there has been dodging.
ive been keeping track of this game since 2019 and ik they always had ROLLING but not dodging. the rolling didnt have s. u can go back and watch the directs and nanoprodigys 2 old videos and they get hit while rolling. first time we ever saw dodging was in the agamatsu vs nanoprodigy pvp livestream from only a few weeks or something before the game came out
I barely just started playing deep, well not barely, bought the game back in verse 1 and never really got into it. (Arcane Odyssey addiction) But it's kinda of crazy to me a game with such deep lore and really good world building is the.. same. I watch it and you know how flipping cool faction wars would be? I mean actually faction wars, Contractors vs Chainwardens. People of opposing ideologies fighting. Effects for say, killing people in the depths? A drowning of Etris event where you try to defend Etris against a new Celtorian horror? If you fail Etris is destroyed, (Contractors being able to fight alongside it.) The world actually fully changing. Game breaking events. And even if you'd complain this would remove a starting area. Who says a drift island couldn't come in and add a small rebuilt etris? There's a million possibilities with the lore they created that they refuse to implement because of a crazy and pvp focused player base. Image you make it a whole choose your own adventure time game. It'd be flipping amazing. Choices actually affecting gameplay? You wanna go contractor? Great your gonna cause another drowning. A world with such breath and depth of world, (Pun not intended), should be used. Not pining to a playerbase that wants crazy new weapons and perfect things. Even worse its a passion project. They have no obligation to listen to these people. It's not like they'd lose money over these things. Good work if you read to the end. Probably will get buried but who knows.
my rant after i wipe my fav build:
I am not even half in of the video, but my point is, if not permadeath mechanic, this game would thrive much more.
Hi, I'm a player who has a shit load of hours in this game and particularly play semi-comp, 1.3k elo max. I am writing this at 4:55 AM, so if I say something particularly really rеtаrdеd, just leave it be.
Progression isn't fun, yes. This has been thrown out ever since people found out To1 and Adept stacking was a thing to minmax progression, and then realizing they fucked up your chances of getting legendaries and rares because of the shitty non-working pity system they added so you could get a legendary talent. Progression now is made so much easier, but it's very bland- however this could probably be said for every game which includes leveling up. V2 progging is legit just do To1, Crypt to 15, Duke to 20.
To1 still DID have a risk, if you didn't get the talent card you wanted, you had to wipe or get lucky in the next run. Thankfully, they added SHRINE OF SOLITUDE WHICH MADE IT SO YOU BASICALLY GET A FREE MYSTIC INSIDE OF TRIAL. IT'S HONESTLY JUST THE BEST WAY TO PROGRESS SINCE YOU SKIP WHAT'S BASICALLY 30 LEVELS BACK IN V1.
Souls franchise is primarily their main source of "inspiration." However, the progression in Souls is far different from deep and it revolves around you not knowing anything about what you're getting into and having something in mind to strive for. The souls games are best experienced when you don't know anything about them, unlike people who play it for the PVP in which of course progression is skipped entirely and we resort to using cheat engine to get our levels, and items.
Now, arguments could be made, and you could say that "Why not just let us be instantly level 20 after meeting X criteria" and while this may be good, this ultimately removes the terrible progression system as a whole, and yes, it is terrible, but it is needed. If you removed progression, you essentially remove Deepwoken's entire aspect of it being RNG, but since the developers are slowly removing *that* aspect anyways, so it doesn't matter. Point is, you're turning Deepwoken into a sandbox that costs 400 robux, pretty much.
Dying in the game doesn't matter, either way as well. If you're max level and have everything you need, you don't really have anything in your inventory. What I mean by this is you only have enchanted armor that can't be dropped, and maybe some gems which you swap out but you can just easily do Layer 2 Floor 1 to get them back. Since the AI is actually really easy to fight, the prospect of wiping is thrown out of the fucking picture as well, a PVE build then will NEVER EVER come close to reaching the shitfest of what it is now being crystal warden's blade and ice carve spin variant.
Deepwoken is also dry, really dry. I came in to play it for it's worldbuilding, ended up ignoring 99% of the content in game and just did PVP. The content this game has isn't lacking, but there's no incentive to do so. Diluvian mechanism is a cool addition to the game, but why would I do it when I can just run Layer 2 Floor 2 and have lesser chance of dying. The new outfit in there is dogshit and people are stocked up on legendaries, so you can just trade the random Curved you got from killing ethiron for other legendaries.
It is sad to see that they dropped the whole sea aspect as a whole. It is actually really depressing to see they dropped this concept.
Take this with a grain of salt, but when the top 1% of the 1% are making balance changes, it unironically fucks over builds left and right who aren't even specced into what the 1% has and just so happens to have *some* of what the "top" players have. I understand nerfing exhaustion strike, it's fast, no damage, has hitstun but the best thing about it is that it transfers posture. What made Exhaustion strike really strong was the fact that it transfers posture on a fast mantra that could also be used as a mixup tool. However, I don't see why I shouldn't be able to posture break someone without them blocking by using exhaustion strike. That's the whole purpose of the move, I throw them off balance and exhaust them for a little bit allowing me to get a free m1 off.
Oh and, what's ruining deepwoken is the dev's lack of actual creativity. I understand that basing your work off of something and building off of that is a great strategy, and some writers or whatever use this to better their creations.. Deepwoken devs see what they think in media is cool, add it into the game without thought for balance and leave it as is.
I'll get hate for saying this, but tech actually raises skill cap. It also enables players to have skill expression, letting you know that if someone does something in a particular way, even if they're on an alternative account, you immediately KNOW it's them because that's how they play, how they utilize bugs to their gameplay. Yes, this is really, really unfair to go up against but everything can have counterplay no matter how stupid it is.
And now we get to my favourite section.
Combat.
At a glance, yes whiff punishing is that simple. A guy misses his move, and you get to hit him for it. The problem with whiff punishing in deep is latency. Fighting games don't have this issue since they have differing netcodes. Fighting games also work fundamentally different from what Roblox is. It's sprite-based, and while there is still lag, it operates in delay-based peer to peer connection. The comparison doesn't really work considering frame data in Roblox games don't exist. If I know a guy is minus, that's only if it's completely visible and easily punishable, like parrying someone in YBA or blockbreaking them. Whiff punishing is nuanced, and there's lots of things to even take into account. If Hol Horse in hftf whiffs 5C in neutral, I know to hit him with a super on reaction. If Adolin Hashi whiffs Revenge, I can't do shit because I might not have Revenge in my kit, I might not have Radiant Kick to whiff punish him. And besides, whiff punishing is also going to be significantly harder because hitboxes generally linger for much longer in roblox games than it would be in fighting games. Yes, I am aware that there are moves in fighting games which linger for a long ass time. But if you want to whiff punish a heavy player, you best just use a gap closing tool like Revenge or so.
Frame data in roblox games are dogshit, recovery frames will usually only last for 1-3 frames when realistically no one can react to that unless you're god. This is why whiff punishing is also harder on top of what I just said if you read up.
its more relavant even today
I actually just stopped playing the game a month or two ago just because of how much absolute hatred it caused me. Every time I'd actually start to get good and have fun, my run would wipe. 9 times out of 10 I usually lost the build to a player that decided for absolutely no reason to kill me. I got so tired of playing the game because I knew no matter how hard I tried, I would wipe to some Power 20 with a build capable of instantly killing me with zero chance to fight back.
At some point I just couldn't go through it anymore just because of how toxic every single player in the game is. They'll wipe the floor with you then act like it's a skill issue on your part.
Yeah, although comparable to those players we do have a skill issue that’s not really the point, it’s just the incentive they’re given to kill others for no reason
the fucking quality of the intro alone is crazy. good work
This game is basically just gpo but dark souls. Just doing the same thing for hours, get shiny things. Get things with pretty colors, done and done.
difference is: dark souls is good
deepwoken is like dark souls if it wasn't dark and there were no souls and also if it was a bad game
please dont disrespect FromSoftware like that man 😅
except deepwoken isnt really comparable to either of the two games?
As someone who religiously plays deepwoken, I find the combat fun because of how shallow it is. That doesn't make it a good combat system. I just like it, LOL.
This is a really, really well-made video. How do you only have 1.2k subscribers with such good editing skills?
Look, the video is good (mostly the first part, im very much in love with deepwokens combat)
but those constant texts appearing, making me rewind 5 seconds, pause, read, unpause, repeat in 10 seconds is making my blood absolutely boil. Stop that shit.
imo it’s kinda cool, even if they are significant chunks of their arguments that I could be missing out had I not went back in time to pause. They still look cool and makes me feel like I’m interacting with the video. It is a little annoying sometimes I agree but they had me a lot more invested in their video (not to glaze or anything)
You would not survive watching the monogatari series
I love how you have this well-edited, well-thought-out critique of a game with really cool cinematics, but all the other uploads are 1-minute-long videos about a baby seal.
Just in case, this wasn't meant to insult you or smth, I was just surprised and found it funny.
Deepwoken is what happens when you give a bunch of gamer weebs a massive audience and no oversight. There's a spark of passion present and a few good ideas shine through, but the game has no critical thinking applied to the balancing or core gameplay mechanics. It's a bunch of rookie programmers just adding whatever flashy ability or questline they just saw in final fantasy with no consideration as to the main gameplay loop or how fun mechanics actually are to play. They kind of just piled everything they like in a game onto a roblox map and attracted an audience of turbo gooners who are too broke to buy rust but love to watch other people lose progress. It sucks that this game eats so many players when there are actually creative and entertaining roblox games that could use the players
i think you have to remember this is a ROBLOX game, there is not 1 game that is better than this really, sure there are a lot of aspects that are bad but that doesn't make the game as a whole bad. Every game is going to have their downsides no matter how hard they try. i'd actually love to see you name 3 better roblox games
@@Dumm0utDecaying winter, Arcane Odsyeey, entry point, etc and by the way these types of games are difficult but fun to play. You don't need permadeath just to have fun.
Sure Arcane odsyeey maybe laggy, and Roblox can't handle it which I can understand, but the game exploration, difficulty, and story did it better then deepwoken
@@Dumm0ut and by the way the games I listed were made by solo developers that understands game designs
@@delsion5560 i have never thought to myself that perma death was fun, I can’t check what I said before but perma death handled in deepwoken is just horrible and not a good mechanic
Roblox AFR is something you should play. It has no perma death. But the good thing is that the spell system is cool because it has like a pattern system, and you can only learn the spells if you explore or ask any players. like the shield spell is the pattern. "left down right down up." If I remember? And heck you can only get weapons with exploring, and looking around.
sooo were 200 elo....
on god LOL
so we have no social skills
The reason the game has 'flopped a little' its the community. They want one thing, once they get it? They get mad, and rant abt how they deserve better. This game has a BIG quality, but its community? Its driving the game down.
This is a pretty good video. You covered a lot of things that I would agree with, but I do have some constructive.
1: The devs are working with Roblox, and Roblox is a very (very) flawed program to begin with. Servers are awful and implode if 1 too many players are on the game, which is why dungeons and instanced servers have to exist. A system where islands move and change would also be held back by Roblox. Heck! Seasons changing already spikes the entire server by like 400ms. I could guarantee that if Deepwoken was on a platform that wasn’t Roblox, it would be infinitely better, but probably at the cost of popularity (only people with high end devices and crazy good internet would be able to play). In short, Roblox itself is just a bad engine. The devs are working with what they are given, which isn’t much.
2: You can’t really go by what the devs originally intended with this game. There’s no doubt in saying that Deepwoken is a competitive PvP experience. You can’t call the game an exploration game or a quest game when every single patch and change is for PvP or for PvE. Now that I have that out of the way, the reason why people don’t like that it’s a PvP game is because of how draining progressing is, which honestly I don’t have a counter for. Progressing is severely flawed, especially seeing that almost all the content in the game is endgame PvP or loot pool content, which brings me to my last point.
3: Deepwoken PvP is really good for a Roblox game. It’s addicting, engaging, and with a few changes I could say the best PvP on Roblox. The main problem either this lies on the statement of where PvP exists in the game which is once again shoved in the endgame. And your section on how reading players doesn’t reward you at all is very much true. Fun fact, your opponent is not stunned at all if you block or parry their vent, and they can just avoid your next attack. My main issue lies in how easy it is to vent. It’s a combo escape tool that is un-punishable unless your opponent is a mile away, and you get like 6 of them in a match. In any real fighting game you get one or two bursts, of which if you miss one, you DIE. But yea thats my only problem with PvP.
TL;DR: Your video is very good I really enjoyed it, you just missed a few things.
ty bro but I will say that you cant really put all the blame of deepwoken's performance on roblox because deepwoken performs noticeably worse than many other games with the same or higher complexity. giant server hiccups and the fact that the average ping is ~20ms higher than any other game in the same server location are telling that it lies mostly on deepwoken's developers rather than roblox. also the fact that there are so many different oversights within the actual gameplay mechanics themselves (like when Flaming Scourge was completely unparry/block/dodgable for like a week when it released) really points to the devs just not being competent
maybe the combat used to be good but not anymore. if anything pvp is most fun in the mid levels because at max youll probably just be fighting huge particle effect 50% combo parry bots or spammers
@@tobafanpageWhich "other games" are you talking about?
I doubt there's any playable game with as many events happening and content as Deepwoken that has performance on par or better than it.
@@Sc5ch pinned