I once imagined I might make a good astronaut. A few years ago, however, I had a couple assignments to remote locations in Alaska, where we weren't allowed to go outside unescorted due to the very present dangers of wildlife and environmental hazards. As such I was indoors an entire month each time, other than rides to and from the remote work site. Worse, I had a roommate for the first time in thirty years, was eating in a communal chow hall (though it was good food), and although I got along with everyone, they weren't exactly people I'd hang around by choice. Between all that, the midnight sun, and noises from machinery and loose parts on the building in the wind, I was going a bit stir crazy. It was then I realized that even if I wasn't up there in years, there's no way I'd be moving to a Martian colony.
Yes; I spent a winter (1970's) on the north shore of Alaska. Base mostly buried; heated to 52 degrees F; 100 men; no women; no windows; no TV; little radio reception; could not go out side about half the time; polar bears. For context, the Innuit went south for the winter!
@@dtphenom A bit over a month on individual assignments, and maybe three months total in Anchorage in between. It was the Bering Sea and interior assignments that were the stressors I described since they were simple remote stations, and I wasn't even wintered over like Randy Smith. Sand Point in the Aleutians wasn't bad. Kodiak Island was absolutely beautiful and a nice change of pace.
I'm pretty sure that most people who think they'd want to live on Mars are just dopes who think they don't like their home and want to fix it with TV drama. Earth is great. You can go outside, breath, move around, travel, see things...the vast, vast majority of space would bore you to tears and make you miss sitting on grass.
@@aluisious there is also plenty of people like me, only leaving home to buy food, plenty of air in my room, i couldn't care less for the grass... Travelling for fun? I am simply unable to comprehend that concept. I'd feel totally same million miles away as i do here. Only problem i'd be stuck with bunch of people and god forbid some extrovert! Apart of that, yeah, boredom would be a hell... no youtube would have a toll on me.
It wasn't the red sun or airless void outside that drove the crew to madness but the toxic atmosphere inside in the aftermath of taco night that lead to the massacre
@Darryl Revok Hard cut to evil astronaut laughing maniacally as he pounds down 5 gas station bean burritos he smuggled through security to the horror of his cremates
Great 'two sentence' horror story! I saw one the other day, "My son always wanted to be part of the Blue Man Group. He shed tears of joy as I wrapped my hands around his throat."
@@petevenuti7355 yeah did that on my cell phone google voice recognition is still crap. Although with all those burritos any electrical spark could result in cremation
There's a game that's like it was made for this episode. It's called RimWorld. It's an extremely complex survival game, and a large part of it is just keeping your colonists sane.
I usually get mad at my pawns when they go crazy, but if I look at it from their perspective, "Lover died -20, best friend died -5, doggo died -5, serious pain -15, nutrition paste -3" would probably make me go crazy too. Heck, all it takes to make me go mad is "disturbed sleep -6"
@@Vlamyncksken it’s been overhauled heavily each year, it has a lot more than it used to (enemies, gear, Ideologies, the royal faction, and a decent world map system)
In one of my writing WIPs, there is a species who is basically space elves. Subsequently, their ships are flying greenhouses. The floors are covered in moss or bark, the walls are wood, there are plants everywhere... The reasoning is: "We'd go mad otherwise."
@@warmstrong5612 Are they from Warhammer 40k? I'm afraid I'm not familiar enough with the lore of that universe. Let me look it up... Wow, these craftworlds sound super cool, but the ships in my story are generally smaller, because if you want to travel FTL, then there is only one way to do it and that is to use pre-made wormholes which have a limited size. However, the "space elves" are indeed very good at making artificial ecosystems to put onto space station and ships. And many of the other species commission one those from them for their own habitats. Because most species feel better if they have a bit of their original home accessible somewhere. They just usually don't go as far as the "space elves" in making nearly every room green and natural.
Being your fan from Russia I was especially interested in a citation from the cosmonaut Valery Ryumin's diary. I've found the source book in Russian, which his diaries selections that were published under the title 'The year outside the Earth' («Год вне Земли»). But it seems that due to the New Scientist publication (probably, that's where you got the phrase from) his words were misinterpreted. In a book he speaks no word on murder by himself, but once cites from the American classics. Here's the fragment, partially translated by me: On that time they barely understood if it is possible for two persons to stay together for such a long time. In the novel 'The Handbook Of Hymen' by the American writer O'Henry there is a really fateful phrase: "If you want to instigate the art of manslaughter just shut two men up in 18 by 20-foot cabin for a month. Human nature won't stand it". And it was written just 70 years from now. (На Земле немногие тогда себе представляли, возможно ли так долго быть вдвоем. Вот в рассказе американского писателя О. Генри «Справочник Гименея» есть такая просто трагическая фраза: «Если вы хотите поощрить ремесло человекоубийства, заприте на месяц двух человек в хижине восемнадцать на двадцать футов. Человеческая натура этого не выдержит». И написано это всего- навсего 70 лет назад.)
Thank you, quotes and interviews between languages can sometimes be translational trainwrecks so I'm not surprised this one was :) I think it was note from Logan on this one but that [New Scientist] might be where he got it. I'm guessing nobody is viewing the misattribution as speaking ill of him and I've never heard him mentioned with anything other than praise, though if you feel it proper I could pin this comment to the top of the comments section so folks could see the corrected translation.
(Sh)It happens sometimes even among hilly educated professionals in isolation, for example in Antarctica, quoting from wiki article "Crime in Antarctica": 1959 - The Vostok Station was the scene of a fight between two scientists over a game of chess. When one of them lost the game, he became so enraged that he attacked the other with an ice axe. 9 October 1996 - At McMurdo Station, a fight occurred between two workers in the kitchen.One worker attacked the other with a hammer.Another cook tried to break up the fight and was also injured. 9 October 2018 - On 9 October 2018, a stabbing occurred at the Bellingshausen Station. The perpetrator was Sergey Savitsky (Сергей Савицкий), a 54-year-old electrical engineer.He stabbed Oleg Beloguzov (Олег Белогузов), a 52-year old welder, in the chest multiple times. According to some sources, the attack occurred because Beloguzov was giving away the endings of books that Savitsky checked out at the station's library.
Sometimes, I forget you were a soldier, despite all of your 'first rule of warfare' stuff. Thank you for your service to our country, and even more for your service to science and education!
yeah not a lot of thinking people in the infantry, I know i hard a hard time having conversations on deep subjects and i was in intelligence. Isaac is awesome
Not just "Soldier". Lots of people that dont deserve any respect at All were "Soldiers". Mr Arthur (wish I knew his Rank) is a COMBAT VETERAN. That in itself does not necessarily instantly earn respect either, but I am willing to bet that in this case it should. And he would not be the first Combat Vet to start a RUclips Channel to distract himself from memories of his "former employment".
Great subject. I think the cv-19 lokdown really showed how fragile mental states can be and how disrupting normal schedules and habits can totally disrupt our entire mental balance
Yeah, I have a job that was exempt from the lockdowns, so I never experienced them, but just a few weeks ago, my job had to almost entirely shut down due to lack of work, so I got almost 2 weeks off The first week was great, but the second was starting to get to me (I’ve gone a few weeks unemployed before, but in that case I had something to do in the form of job searches and interviews) No idea how people managed almost 2 years of that
@Darryl Revok I'm also introverted, but I still need something to do Though granted, in my case, it was more about uncertainty, I didn't know in advance I'd have 2 weeks off, each day I was called and told no work was happening that day
Yeah; I was off work and on lockdown for 10 weeks, and came out of it more sane than when I went in. Being a Key Worker not exposed to the public but not allowed to go out and spend money, I ended up reducing stress further. I ended up with nothing to spend money on except paying off debt.
Over the lockdowns and the politics of the 2020 race riots, I entered almost total isolation for a few months. I learned that I’ll be fine under high stress and isolation, but the vast majority other people really, really won’t. I think it’s largely a nurture thing, more than a nature thing. Most people in the past managed to cope with much worse difficulties than the covid lockdowns, so I expect that we haven’t suddenly lost the genetic ability to cope with major difficulty, I think it’s a cultural problem, where most people are over-socialized and so can’t handle much isolation.
@@drclams4869 It's a nature thing. Neurotypicals can't handle any isolation whatsoever, but autistic people can just chill on their own happily, in tune with the murmurings of the ship's engines.
It seems to me, an important mindset for astronauts is to come to terms with death prior to each mission. Spiritually, psychologically and/or emotionally embrace death and know it's very likely to happen, so accept it, surrender to it, then forget about it and focus your thoughts and concerns on operational issues, i.e., your job and the things you've been trained to control.
Embrace it, accept it, surrender to it? What the heck? No. Failure isn't an option. What you propose is the exact opposite of a healthy mindset. Just look at Apollo 13 or any real astronaut, for that matter. Why the heck do so many people completely and totally miss like, the biggest thing about space IRL? The absolute indominable optimism of those who challenge it.
This is a really fantastic episode. The chart of psychological factors was very helpful in understanding the things we'd need to get through. Great job Issac and team! I do have one idea that might make the format of these shows even more helpful to the audience. Putting a summary of the knowlege/ideas that you'd like your audience to walk away with at the end of every episode might help to recap things. I've been a long-time fan and Patreon supporter since 2017 and I'm always so mesmorized by the imagery and thoughts that I oftentimes find myself asking "What did I really learn in the last 30 minutes?" at the end of every episode. Of course, that's a fantastic reason to go rewatch the entire episode again, but a summary would be helpful as well. Once again, great work. This is by far the best inspirational and educational RUclips Channel ever created and is always a fun bonding time with my 12-year-old son as we both look forward to watching the content together every Thursday.
I second this idea, it's not about 'dumbing down' content, but reinforcing the conclusions that were reached after working through the problem. As a visually-minded person I too get distracted by the increasingly realistic CGI graphics, or Chris Hadfield 'playing' with his food, so often find myself going back a few sentences, which breaks the flow of the presentation. Knowing that there's going to be a summary would put the mind at ease knowing that if I missed anything, it'll be covered in brief at the end, so I could just continue unless I really 'spaced out'. It would also make catching up with a previous episode that provides important context for a new one be a lot more feasible. The only ones where a summary wouldn't be appropriate would be for story-based series like the recent one about exoplanet detectors, probes, and explorers. In summary (so meta), I feel that a summary would be helpful to: 1. Reinforced the key takeaways 2. Obviate the need for incessant rewinding 3. Make it trivial to catch up with previous videos that are 'required viewing' for a new one
Worst thing for me would be boredom. Second worst thing might be the feeling of being trapped. Being still or in a confined space isn't tough for me. But being forced to is. In space, you don't have the option to leave and this just compounds every other psychological effect.
Boredom?!? Your having a laugh aren't you there is little to no spare time to get bored on "real" space mission. Shuttle and ISS crews have absolutely packed schedules mostly involving running numerous experiments and taking care of their allotment of daily maintenance activities. Same would apply to long haul missions to Mars just with a much higher proportion of "required to stay alive" maintenance. Your comment of claustrophobia is incoherent and contradictory, you don't mind confinement, but you do if you have no choice?? Thats like saying am fine eating brussels sprouts(inset an activity you like), but not when am required to. Those statements make no sense together. If your ok with brussels then your OK with them being enforced makes no practical difference. Makes even less sense since confinement is usually an enforced situation by definition.
@@Blowfeld20k I was with you until you brought up choice. There's a big difference between sitting in an empty room in your house or being in a jail cell. Even if they were the same exact condition. In one you are comfortable you put yourself in that situation and you can remove yourself whenever you want to. In the jail cell you're stuck there no matter what you do, what you say, you are in this situation. Even if ultimately the person is responsible for what put them in jail just like you being responsible for going on this mission voluntarily. It does not change the fact that being confinement is literally torture for a social species like ours. Choice or at least the illusion of such, is important for our sanity.
@@Blowfeld20k Congratulations on writing what is possibly the most aggressive response imaginable to a simple statement about personal perception. Do you feel better now?
@@astreinerboi There's a reason they aren't on the team of researchers responsible for refinements in space psychology. I'd argue such tremendous lack of empathy should mean that they shouldn't be involved with _any_ psychology studies, if I'm being honest.
One problem - when in space, one cannot watch Isaac Arthur episodes immediately when they come out due to time lag and poor internet connection! LOTS OF STRESS WAITING FOR THE EPISODE TO DOWNLOAD!
I have a better connection and more content that can be watched live from Mars, but it's table-flipping frustrating to have to wait while RUclips fetches content from a *different* world wide web.
Back in the day, we used to say that MRE really stood for "Meals Rejected by Ethiopians". Although, to be fair: A) MREs are better now than they were in the 1980s, and B) they really weren't that bad even then, it just got old eating them day after day. As an emergency food, or even as a lightweight food for camping or hiking trips they're fine.
@Isaac Arthur I think a great analogy to some of the prolonged stress experienced in space would be the closest Earth parallel: Saturation Diving. From weeks to months in the close-quarter environment only to go on excursions in a basically instantly-fatal environment if critical failure to suit occurs; to the various systems to ensure heat regulation, air scrubbing/recycling, intermediate chambers, the physical fatigue, etc. They are far more similar than space vs regular surface diving.
This episode reminded me of an experiment that was done years ago, though I forget which country conducted it. Basically they took a certain amount of introverts and extroverts, and then buried them in an underground bunker for over a year. They had a large amount of entertainment options and regular tasks to do. The results were a bit inconclusive, but the introverts handled being there a lot easier than the extroverts. The downside is that the introverts weren't as effective than the extroverts upon being released and having more responsibilities.
I prefer to leave them until the weekend, once I've chewed through the Friday glut of youtube videos from my usual channels. That way I can watch the pictures while playing a chill game on the other machine, and let my mind drift a bit.
Being ex Navy I can relate to a bunch of this and I'm sure my submarine brethren even more so. I'd love to go into space but I wouldn't go thinking that it would be all sunshine and roses. Still want to go through.
As an Army brat, I thank you for your service. I wonder if you and the psycologist talked about the issues of raising children in space during generations long trips to other systems or galaxies. Also how the society itself will change from the orinal to the arrival. Thank you and your team for all your work on these fascinating subjects.
As an introvert who doesnt even like leaving the house, Im always amused hearing about people going stir crazy; especially because of things going on such as covid. People complaining about not being able to go out and Im just sitting here thinking "thank god I dont have to go out!". Like some people go stir crazy because they are in enclosed spaces for weeks or months on end and I literally have had depressive episodes where I didnt even leave my room for months at a time except to use the bathroom. Im wondering if the problem isn't always the enclosed spaces, but possibly the lack of personal space.
Can really do without windows on a space ship. There are all sorts of advantages to not having windows - structural and shielding simplicity, easier layout of living spaces as screens can be put anywhere, reduction in the effects of rotation (screens can be programmed to not show rotation), easier to change the view to whatever you desire, no micrometeors wearing out windows. Also, what is seen on the screens can be engineered for the benefit of the crew - like being able to sleep in the middle of a forest, with all the sights, sounds, and maybe even smells. You might do a thought experiment on "Killing Windows" and pull the string and see where it leads.
Happy Arthur'sday , I can see now from my destroyed eye albeit everything is blurry but some vision is better than none, right now your content is keeping me sane on earth, love from Jamaica 🇯🇲❤
I would think that the nuclear submarine crews of the world's navies have many years of experience dealing with these problems. However, most 'cruises' are shorter than a trip to Mars or Venus.
5-6 month deployments are fun. I was a carrier guy, and we had several multi month no see any land deployments. Not seeing the light day is another factor.
I read details of the ships manifest of my ancestors emigrating from England to Sydney in the early 1840's as a family of 5, including babies. 380 emigrants on an 800 ton sailing ship on its maiden voyage, just 160 feet long. 99 days at sea, did not stop at any port. Did not communicate with any other craft. No air conditioning of course. One seaman, two adult emigrants, two girls and ten infants died. A good outcome. Passengers all passed a vote of thanks to the captain for keeping them in good health. Tough days!
Something bigger than the problem is church which gives confidence, and a feeling that I have a wingman to help, watch my six, and not be alone. Doing something, even commenting on something gives some sense of control. There was a S-F story years ago about a spaceship coming across another previous one in which the crew went crazy. One realized what happened and damaged the life support system on his good fully automatic no-touch spaceship so that his crew had something important to do and occupy their time. That spaceship made it to the destination and future designs had some manual requirements.
I love how you make so many parallels between your military experience and space flight. I did the same thing in my commercial space operations undergraduate and my space studies master's degrees. Most of my class mates got tired of me playing the "old vet who sees parallels in everything", but I GOT all the subjects the professors were talking about, especially human factors and psychological considerations in space, BECAUSE of that expierence. Thank you for your service. You and I were potentially at Ramadi at the same time! I was an army truck driver from 05-08, and deployed to the Al-anbar province out of Al Asad air base twice. During that time. I spent many a night at Ramadi, Haditha, COP north, COP South, Camp Wolf, and several others pulling supply convoy missions.
i've been working nights for the last 5 years with a small crew of people. I'm pretty sure i'd be okay on a long space mission as long as i had art supplies music and cannabis a a like minded friend to share down time with. You should do a video on Art AI i've been toying with MidJourney and i would love to see were this tech could go in personal artist expression, for some reason a lot of artist feel threatened by it but I found it instantly useful.
Gonna get dumped on for this but the studies are pretty clear at this point that cannabis isn't good for memory and cognition and it probably increases risk of dementia later in life. Also increases risk of schizophrenia.
The Most Crucial decision to save the Astronauts on Apollo 13 was made during LM development by Chief Engineer Tom Kelly. When NASA turned down the LM Lifeboat option, he could have shrunk the Oxygen Tanks to the size required for the Lunar Missions. He kept the Larger tank, to support possible extended Lunar stay missions, knowing it would be easier to shrink the tank later, if he needed the weight or space inside the LM, rather than having to enlarge it later. That decision is what saved the Astronauts without the Larger oxygen tank the Astronauts suffocate before getting home.
8:00 I can't say I agree. I've bought many mres for storage and eaten on camping trips. The same ones used in the military and it's usually good enough that it does provide the relief of eating a full meal. It's like making dinner you and your friends sit down and prep the food. It's kinda fun and you can exchange foods that are more preferable. Like I always want the deserts and someone else wants the fruits or you can exchange the main course. MRE are always great.
Have you ever heard of the 2018 hit game Among Us? I thought not, its not a story the crewmates would tell you, its an impostor legend. Darth Red the Sus was so powerful that he could vent to the people he loved, but his aprentice ejected him in his sleep. Ironic, he could gather a susillion dollars, but not survive.
In my youth I was a submariner. I also, have suffered from anxiety during midlife. But, one of the things that I enjoyed about ship life was comraderie. Civilian life with its sensory overload was what led to anxiety. So of us introverts need time alone. What makes ship board life tolerable was submarine or surface warfare qualifications. We were always busy. As you mentioned sailors have active religious and spiritual lives. What's infuriates me about Civilian life is too many social rules that are forever changing because there is no longer a strong social structure. Learning and understanding personality profiles (a.k.a Kersey/Bates) is very beneficial. Society excluseds introverts and lauds extroverts (type A's). For Space travel it is these ridgid personalities that need to be excluded. An introvert can learn to be social. Know it all's are untrainable. Curious people will never be board, there's always something else go learn!
Dr. Bot on Space Station 76 gave very simplistic answers (including “take more Valium”) to the crew members. The Captain needed psychological help, but rather quickly realized the limits of Dr. Bot’s programming, and found great comfort in gaming the responses.
It's a miracle poor Mark Watney was able to sat sane on Mars with nothing but the crews entertainment and Disco... so much disco. Most informative as always Isaac.
7:59 MRE 17 Beef Teriyaki Was one of the best! if memory serves it came with vanilla pound cake and hot cocoa powder, we used coffee creamer and a little water to make chocolate pudding. The Iraq war sucked, but it did have some good memories.
I've never played d&d but I'll always Dungeons and Dragons will be will be the ultimate game for space travel. Creating infinite worlds playing as a different people and the game settng naturally lasting for hours in one sitting makes it almost as if there was made for this type of situation. I can also see "World Hopping" being more of a thing. Oh and all made out of primitive supplies if any
Quarantine has taught me just how difficult life would be with such isolation and constant danger and uncertainty in space life -- until its Enterprise-quality.
For basic small comfort in space, on the moon or Mars. It might be worthwhile to have a Tiki bar. Other option, I had a concept for a rotation garden park. Rather than an extensive walk to see different scenery. If at least two areas of garden with, rock, trees and other features rotate slowly, you get the chance to see different aspects as you walk around various paths or sit on a park bench. Other features on the side could be stream(s), small field, small pond(s) and lined with trees.. Since it rotates, main lighting, watering, and collection of compost material from/for plants could be placed at a central location. Addition ambient lighting could be placed around the perimeter. Additional features could be a sign post, well, bridge, clock tower, chain and post fence, etc. If done well it would be able to be placed in a small room, with a big skylight it might almost feel like the great outdoors. First had the idea for a small yet jam packed park for an old folks home were they could walk for a little or a lot amount of time. All within a small area.
@@r3dp9 Hey Caboose, are you getting any of this? I think so. That guy Tex is really a robot, and you're his girlfriend, that makes you....a gay robot. Yeah that's right, I'm a gay robot.
I alway thought it might be necessary to "break" people before long space journeys, just small psychological issues but it was better they already had them, we knew of the issue, the person had tactics the deal with it and it would be harder to break someone who was already broken. Like if someone turned into a work a lohic after a family death or something similar. Now that I know better it would be better to have a couple of psychological consultants, Ai pet buddies like a drone that looks like that person's favorite pokemon or imaginatiary friend that will monitor their state of mind and will be a shoulder to cry on. Like the robot cat from buzz lightyear.
Therapy is supposed to help you with introspection, and self-reflection-but you can only do so much of that until you’re “Talking to Yourself”-and that’s potentially a symptom of psychosis.
I've been watching/listening to your channel for years now, and it's still very interesting. I found this one particularly thought-provoking, so thanks for your hard work, and for uploading this.
7:58 Woah there. Yes, the military has invested a lot into making MREs, but I wouldn't call it food. Too many ingredients, too many preservatives, tons of high fructose corn syrup. Highly active young males can get away with eating that junk for short periods of time, but I wouldn't call it "wise" or "nutritious". Nutritionally (and in cost) you'd be better off with dehydrated pure foods (oats, rice, etc) that are cooked with small amounts of hot water. Personally, I think dehydrated stuff tastes better too. Sadly, out society is addicted to junk food, so we get served junk food in school and military cafeterias. Because we get raised on junk food in school and military cafeterias, we get addicted to junk food. It's a vicious, self perpetuating cycle that requires a lot of diligence to escape from. (Military cafeteria is how I got addicted to Coca Cola Zero, which I normally would never have drank.) 18:17 I just thought of another stressor: Visual clutter. You know how having lots of junk on the floor makes your head hurt, but having a clean room makes you feel good? The space station has "junk" cluttering every single wall, floor, and "ceiling".
This has convinced me that interstellar colonization is not possible. The vessel would arrive hundreds of years later full of corpses or gibbering lunatics, if it arrived at all. 💀
To paraphrase Ford Prefect, you can drive yourself crazy trying to stay sane, so why not go mad now and save your sanity for later when you'll need it?
Great video. One thing I’ve wondered about that you didn’t mention is anxiety over life support systems failure. Knowing that you are one equipment failure away from certain death would have to take a toll on you. Yes, there are redundant systems and spare parts, but those will always be be finite, and earth is very very far away. I don’t know, that’s the sort of thing that would keep me up at night if I were on an interstellar voyage!
I could really relate to your commentary about the effects of people being cooped up over time - it reminds me of when my battalion went from being in the barracks at an isolated base overseas to being deployed at sea, and my company was billeted in a small troop compartment (we had to climb a ladder to get in and out) with bunks placed four high, too close together to sit straight up in your bunk, with rows of bunks a few feet apart. Even though we could get out of the compartment during the day to other parts of the ship, after a few weeks you could almost hear the ticking of people getting close to exploding. When we went ashore for training, there was a riot at the enlisted club the first night we were ashore. As for MREs, I still mourn the old C-rations; most of them were far better. The info about food tasting different at different levels of air pressure is fascinating! I had no idea. I live at an altitude of a little over 5,500 feet above sea level (Albuquerque, NM), so maybe airline food would taste normal for people who live at this altitude.
Was hoping this was going to be a "how to" episode. I work a remote job solo, think lighthouse keeper plus security, with a year on year off schedule. The space madness does creep up on you it does. Acceptance is the first step.
17:24 space farming of plants would fix that. I use plants as natural air filters in my room! They're perfumy too - adding a nice scent compared to just eliminating odors. The ones I grow with a lot of scent release are basil and pineapple chamomile.
I live in a small village, moved here after growing up in one of the biggest metropolises in the world. Even though I prefer the freedom of access to nature here, the loneliness of living somewhere that you KNOW lacks anyone your age that's single is heavy. In the big city, the possibility of meeting someone new you click with helps keep you moving. When it's a fact of life that no such opportunity will come, it's tough keeping my mood up in the evening when it's too dark and cold to keep myself distracted with nature.
Okay but *why* did the one group stop working for the day? The why is pretty important. Was it in protest to work conditions/the amount of work they were given, for instance? If so, I wouldn't call that closing in on mental illness. I'd probably support any protest in such a case to be honest. The people we send up deserve to be treated decently, after all, but the same could easily be said for the people we aren't sending up lmao
@Lawofimprobability those are human beings with human needs and emotions tho, not machines meant solely for our sciencey pleasure. Working them is fine. Even giving them a bit of a busy schedule to make good use of time & money. But they need time to de-stress and live with themselves. Pushing them like slaves is not excusable just because it was a big investment, my guy.
From the psychological perspective [and possibly logistics / engineering viewpoint] as missions get longer further away from Earth the ideal astronaut candidate, the "Best of the Best" is not some strong chinned Chad air force test pilot but rather somebody who has been long term unemployed or has Hikikomori traits. Used to Isolation, bad food, lack of sunlight and resistant to 'cabin fever' social dynamics.
I don't know if those are exactly the right traits ... but there will be some people who earnestly prefer that sort of isolation (rather than having it imposed upon them by capitalism and/or social anxiety). The food issue is particularly interesting to me, because there are folks who actually pay more for stuff like Soylent.
@@IsaacKuo I don't know if those are exactly the right traits either and moody teenagers in space is a bit of a trope but the case for it being practical is compelling. The kids have the skills with less mass/ volume, lower calorie + life support requirements... Just sayin Anime could become reality
Hopefully the instruction manuals in space will be (and indeed hopefully are) on average clearer and more precise than many of the ones down here on Earth. Potentially having to try to fix your life support system using poorly drawn diagrams would be quite stressful I would imagine...
Maybe they can train people to fix the life support before hand. If there is one or two people that can fix a few components blindfolded, then on average you should be able to keep everything running unless things get so bad you lose half the crew. If that happens, then there was not much extra repair training or manuals would do imo.
@@VainerCactus0 this was solved in one story. On day five after launch, a Line of Demarcation was drawn throughout the ship separating Port Colonists from Starboard Colonists. Students working in small groups set to work memorizing rote facts about how to make the ship systems go and maintain flight systems and biological homeostasis. Kids don’t care about their parents’ obsessions, but they’ll do anything to defeat a rival. By the third generation, the ship is divided into two theocracies locked in a vicious Cold War, opposing each other based on minute points of received doctrine. By journey’s end, the two sides are eager to colonize the target planet so they can build weapons and vehicles to better wage holy war on the infidels. Birth rates stay high, as do morale and motivation. Each rival colony is united in their Manifest Destiny. It may not be the “best” outcome, but it has more than ample historical precedent.
I was just thinking of a holodeck kinda situation that allows an astronaut to schedule sessions with their family. Imagine a guy in space scheduling a time, going onto this holodeck kinda thing with a couch and table etc, he wears a haptic feedback suit. His wife and son on Earth head to the facility with a room identical to his wearing haptic feedback too. They enter and it's like they're in the same room with one another and they can hug each other and everything and feel the hugs, sit on the couch and chit chat with some snacks etc, catch up on how things are going on Earth. Maybe schedule it once a week or two.
It would take time for the signals to travel through space. You would try to hug your family and the signal wouldn’t arrive on earth for hours or days, and vice versa
@@Afaustianbargainbin Yeah, I figured that but i'm assuming this would operate on some good future tech stuff like Quantum entanglement or something, I dunno. I'm no rocket surgeon, they can figure it out.
I believe staying busy with long-term projects - like hobbies that bring designs to reality that once built, help out the spaceflight - would be super helpful. Archiving and documenting large databases - like journal records of what's happened is also really time-consuming yet pertinent and useful.
Gardening too. Tending to plants & watching them grow day by day, looking forward to some fresh food to supplement all the rehydrated packet crud that's normally on the menu.
I toured Mexico, all the way down to the Yucatan, in the 80's with nothing but a backpack, some clothes, a few blankets, and a water bottle. No money, no visa....and no Spanish. I almost didn't make it, but I did. Learned a lot about myself and people in general on that adventure. Don't Panic! Use your head.
The further south I got, the nicer people were, mostly. The worst people were the police. Even in the 80s, a lot of police were corrupt. They kept trying to rob me, but I didn't have any money or things of value. That was awkward. I survived on charm.
I think I'd be concerned and want to help the boss with their mental health issue rather than mutiny, but then I ofen don't like power hierarchies as a whole, everyone is after all a fellow human.
The feeling of a room is often just as much defined by its relationship with thr outside as the room itself. Space is generally inhospitable to human life. Any colony, especially early scale, will have a antagonist relationship with the outside, much like early cabins in Antarctica.
In the story that I'm writing, modern day humans had to evacuate Earth when the nuclear and albedo options failed to save Earth from asteroids. The main crux is a fleet of ships returning to the majority of humanity after 30 years and observing the differences between them. This is one subject that I've been very interested in. Without windows, I was thinking about stealing an idea from one of the antartic bases, being a "bright room." When people start to wear down, they're given a shift (literally their assigned task for the day) in the bright room for R&R. Ironically, the main character prefers his R&R in what time he can schedule in the "coffin," basically a cubby with extra soundproofing and baffles to deaden noise from the air systems with a single LED for light that you can shut off. He desperately craves the ability to enjoy some peace, quiet, and silence in order to relax. One reason for this is because, as the first person born on board, he's spent his life being fast tracked to become command some day. That takes a heavy mental toll on him, and being around others reminds him of the weight he carries, so being alone is his best solace. Naturally, the events conspire to both give him that in a negative way, but also to deny him that terribly. Everyone was able to bring a certain weight of things, and I've been thinking about the people who had foresight for their own sanity and those who didn't. There's a character who brought a ton of cartoons; some anime, but also kids shows from their youth. He not only gets on well with the kids for this, but being able to relax to an episode or two of Batman the Animated Series as his bunk lights dim just before bed has become a beloved anti-stress routine for him. Meanwhile, more than one crewmember brought things that either broke down easier or were consumed found themselves without over time. I still have a lot more research to do on this subject, and this was a good reminder that I was thinking in the right directions. Thank you.
Have to say that I found the table 3. Known Spaceflight Stressors really interesting to read. I suppose it is something where most people find a third of those to be really likely stressors for themselves, a third to be none issue (or in many cases, just stressors they think wouldn't affect them but just haven't realized yet. Actually being subjected to them tend to bring out things in people they didn't realize before) and a last third of things that they never thought of but find to be possible problems. tl;dr: That table really is worth an episode on itself and that is what most of this one is.
Large TVs are becoming cost competitive with 'picture windows'. That means that you can have any view you like - even if your 'apartment' is underground, or underwater, or in vacuum.
The movie Aniara is interesting. A group of people are stuck on a space ship which is supposed to take them to Mars. The ship goes off course. There is no way for them to get back. A large percentage develop mental health issue, some suicides. It is on Prime.
Don’t worry. The ship’s supercomputer will select the optimal holographic companion to keep you sane. Optimal not guaranteed if ship’s computer also insane.
Your comment about not knowing how people would react to not coming back to earth for years if on a mission, or ever if a colonist, got me thinking that we actually do have an analogue for those things in our history already, which would be Age of Sail voyages and colonization efforts. James Cook and Ferdinand Magellan (among others) both took around 3 years to circumnavigate the world. There are also letters and journals of people who were colonists with their reflections on what is was like to leave their homes with no chance of ever returning. It is not a perfect analogue to space travel, but it is as good as we'll get and can at least allow some preparation for the psychological stresses of space flight.
By the way Isaac, your thumbnail for this video is absolutely fantastic. Give your team member who did that a pat on the back for me. I might need to reach out to them for an album cover as they are far superior to my skill level.
Solution 1: FTL Solution 2: Cryosleep Solution 3: Simulated reality as past time for crew In all fairness though i do believe its pointless to venture far out without FTL. nobody you know will exist when you return, and whatever purpose your mission had will have been acheived long ago by better means.
Yeah, being used to nice GBK burgers, ploughman's, steaks, szechuan soup, polish rye sour soup, and Chinese Dry Pot. But then you're in space and the only things to eat are various generic ration pack sludge or taco with some sugar sludge. 🤷🏻♂️
I once imagined I might make a good astronaut. A few years ago, however, I had a couple assignments to remote locations in Alaska, where we weren't allowed to go outside unescorted due to the very present dangers of wildlife and environmental hazards. As such I was indoors an entire month each time, other than rides to and from the remote work site. Worse, I had a roommate for the first time in thirty years, was eating in a communal chow hall (though it was good food), and although I got along with everyone, they weren't exactly people I'd hang around by choice. Between all that, the midnight sun, and noises from machinery and loose parts on the building in the wind, I was going a bit stir crazy. It was then I realized that even if I wasn't up there in years, there's no way I'd be moving to a Martian colony.
Really good write up! How long were you up in Alaska?
Yes; I spent a winter (1970's) on the north shore of Alaska. Base mostly buried; heated to 52 degrees F; 100 men; no women; no windows; no TV; little radio reception; could not go out side about half the time; polar bears. For context, the Innuit went south for the winter!
@@dtphenom A bit over a month on individual assignments, and maybe three months total in Anchorage in between. It was the Bering Sea and interior assignments that were the stressors I described since they were simple remote stations, and I wasn't even wintered over like Randy Smith. Sand Point in the Aleutians wasn't bad. Kodiak Island was absolutely beautiful and a nice change of pace.
I'm pretty sure that most people who think they'd want to live on Mars are just dopes who think they don't like their home and want to fix it with TV drama. Earth is great. You can go outside, breath, move around, travel, see things...the vast, vast majority of space would bore you to tears and make you miss sitting on grass.
@@aluisious there is also plenty of people like me, only leaving home to buy food, plenty of air in my room, i couldn't care less for the grass... Travelling for fun? I am simply unable to comprehend that concept. I'd feel totally same million miles away as i do here. Only problem i'd be stuck with bunch of people and god forbid some extrovert! Apart of that, yeah, boredom would be a hell... no youtube would have a toll on me.
It wasn't the red sun or airless void outside that drove the crew to madness but the toxic atmosphere inside in the aftermath of taco night that lead to the massacre
@Darryl Revok Hard cut to evil astronaut laughing maniacally as he pounds down 5 gas station bean burritos he smuggled through security to the horror of his cremates
@@mikeloeven cremates? Freudian slip? ..meant crewmates right?
You should write a script for "dark star II" , that could be a Captains log entropy, I mean entry.
Great 'two sentence' horror story!
I saw one the other day, "My son always wanted to be part of the Blue Man Group.
He shed tears of joy as I wrapped my hands around his throat."
@@petevenuti7355 yeah did that on my cell phone google voice recognition is still crap. Although with all those burritos any electrical spark could result in cremation
Next video: Staying sane on Earth
We're all here because we're not all there lol.
👽
I think the Cure might be listening to more Isaac Arthur
@@jumpkickman1993 I find his voice off putting
@@NicktheMac earth is a ghetto
There's a game that's like it was made for this episode. It's called RimWorld. It's an extremely complex survival game, and a large part of it is just keeping your colonists sane.
I usually get mad at my pawns when they go crazy, but if I look at it from their perspective, "Lover died -20, best friend died -5, doggo died -5, serious pain -15, nutrition paste -3" would probably make me go crazy too. Heck, all it takes to make me go mad is "disturbed sleep -6"
Rimworld felt quite shallow to me tbh. Haven't played in over 5 years so I might be missing out on new features
Kept thinking the same
@@Vlamyncksken it’s been overhauled heavily each year, it has a lot more than it used to (enemies, gear, Ideologies, the royal faction, and a decent world map system)
@@federationprime I'll check it out this weekend
In one of my writing WIPs, there is a species who is basically space elves. Subsequently, their ships are flying greenhouses. The floors are covered in moss or bark, the walls are wood, there are plants everywhere...
The reasoning is: "We'd go mad otherwise."
That’s entirely correct.
Sounds awesome. Keep it up.😁👍
Sign outside flight deck of Elf ship..
You Must Be This High To Fly
So like Eldar Craftworlds?
@@warmstrong5612 Are they from Warhammer 40k?
I'm afraid I'm not familiar enough with the lore of that universe. Let me look it up...
Wow, these craftworlds sound super cool, but the ships in my story are generally smaller, because if you want to travel FTL, then there is only one way to do it and that is to use pre-made wormholes which have a limited size.
However, the "space elves" are indeed very good at making artificial ecosystems to put onto space station and ships. And many of the other species commission one those from them for their own habitats. Because most species feel better if they have a bit of their original home accessible somewhere. They just usually don't go as far as the "space elves" in making nearly every room green and natural.
Being your fan from Russia I was especially interested in a citation from the cosmonaut Valery Ryumin's diary. I've found the source book in Russian, which his diaries selections that were published under the title 'The year outside the Earth' («Год вне Земли»).
But it seems that due to the New Scientist publication (probably, that's where you got the phrase from) his words were misinterpreted. In a book he speaks no word on murder by himself, but once cites from the American classics. Here's the fragment, partially translated by me:
On that time they barely understood if it is possible for two persons to stay together for such a long time. In the novel 'The Handbook Of Hymen' by the American writer O'Henry there is a really fateful phrase: "If you want to instigate the art of manslaughter just shut two men up in 18 by 20-foot cabin for a month. Human nature won't stand it". And it was written just 70 years from now.
(На Земле немногие тогда себе представляли, возможно ли так долго быть вдвоем. Вот в рассказе американского писателя О. Генри «Справочник Гименея» есть такая просто трагическая фраза: «Если вы хотите поощрить ремесло человекоубийства, заприте на месяц двух человек в хижине восемнадцать на двадцать футов. Человеческая натура этого не выдержит». И написано это всего- навсего 70 лет назад.)
Thank you, quotes and interviews between languages can sometimes be translational trainwrecks so I'm not surprised this one was :) I think it was note from Logan on this one but that [New Scientist] might be where he got it. I'm guessing nobody is viewing the misattribution as speaking ill of him and I've never heard him mentioned with anything other than praise, though if you feel it proper I could pin this comment to the top of the comments section so folks could see the corrected translation.
Fascinating! Thanks for tracking this down!
(Sh)It happens sometimes even among hilly educated professionals in isolation, for example in Antarctica, quoting from wiki article "Crime in Antarctica":
1959 - The Vostok Station was the scene of a fight between two scientists over a game of chess. When one of them lost the game, he became so enraged that he attacked the other with an ice axe.
9 October 1996 - At McMurdo Station, a fight occurred between two workers in the kitchen.One worker attacked the other with a hammer.Another cook tried to break up the fight and was also injured.
9 October 2018 - On 9 October 2018, a stabbing occurred at the Bellingshausen Station. The perpetrator was Sergey Savitsky (Сергей Савицкий), a 54-year-old electrical engineer.He stabbed Oleg Beloguzov (Олег Белогузов), a 52-year old welder, in the chest multiple times. According to some sources, the attack occurred because Beloguzov was giving away the endings of books that Savitsky checked out at the station's library.
@@Volodimar Not that I approve at all, but everyone who thinks spoiling is fun should know that last story :D
@@Volodimar I'm not saying I condone what Savitsky did, but I certainly understand.
Sometimes, I forget you were a soldier, despite all of your 'first rule of warfare' stuff. Thank you for your service to our country, and even more for your service to science and education!
yeah not a lot of thinking people in the infantry, I know i hard a hard time having conversations on deep subjects and i was in intelligence. Isaac is awesome
Not just "Soldier". Lots of people that dont deserve any respect at All were "Soldiers". Mr Arthur (wish I knew his Rank) is a COMBAT VETERAN. That in itself does not necessarily instantly earn respect either, but I am willing to bet that in this case it should. And he would not be the first Combat Vet to start a RUclips Channel to distract himself from memories of his "former employment".
@@mouseblackcat5263 pretty sure he was an e-5 sgt.
I was a waiter for my country for years , no one was killed but I was never thanked for my service
@@Nat.Dialogue Thanks for your service and putting up with all of the a holes and karens.
Great subject. I think the cv-19 lokdown really showed how fragile mental states can be and how disrupting normal schedules and habits can totally disrupt our entire mental balance
Yeah, I have a job that was exempt from the lockdowns, so I never experienced them, but just a few weeks ago, my job had to almost entirely shut down due to lack of work, so I got almost 2 weeks off
The first week was great, but the second was starting to get to me (I’ve gone a few weeks unemployed before, but in that case I had something to do in the form of job searches and interviews)
No idea how people managed almost 2 years of that
@Darryl Revok I'm also introverted, but I still need something to do
Though granted, in my case, it was more about uncertainty, I didn't know in advance I'd have 2 weeks off, each day I was called and told no work was happening that day
Yeah; I was off work and on lockdown for 10 weeks, and came out of it more sane than when I went in.
Being a Key Worker not exposed to the public but not allowed to go out and spend money, I ended up reducing stress further. I ended up with nothing to spend money on except paying off debt.
Over the lockdowns and the politics of the 2020 race riots, I entered almost total isolation for a few months. I learned that I’ll be fine under high stress and isolation, but the vast majority other people really, really won’t.
I think it’s largely a nurture thing, more than a nature thing. Most people in the past managed to cope with much worse difficulties than the covid lockdowns, so I expect that we haven’t suddenly lost the genetic ability to cope with major difficulty, I think it’s a cultural problem, where most people are over-socialized and so can’t handle much isolation.
@@drclams4869 It's a nature thing. Neurotypicals can't handle any isolation whatsoever, but autistic people can just chill on their own happily, in tune with the murmurings of the ship's engines.
It seems to me, an important mindset for astronauts is to come to terms with death prior to each mission. Spiritually, psychologically and/or emotionally embrace death and know it's very likely to happen, so accept it, surrender to it, then forget about it and focus your thoughts and concerns on operational issues, i.e., your job and the things you've been trained to control.
Embrace it, accept it, surrender to it? What the heck? No. Failure isn't an option. What you propose is the exact opposite of a healthy mindset. Just look at Apollo 13 or any real astronaut, for that matter. Why the heck do so many people completely and totally miss like, the biggest thing about space IRL? The absolute indominable optimism of those who challenge it.
@@MR-dc4od Yes, I understand that. What I'm referring to is the psychological toll of an extended voyage; don't let fear of death add to that toll.
Easier said then done
@@Touchefor3 Definitely, but there is nothing easy about spending extended time in space with present technology.
@Darryl Revok Yes, but I'd be surprised if that's not already in place, either through NASA or its life insurance carrier.
“The universe waits impatiently to kill you,” said Issac Arthur, barely able to suppress his chuckle
This is a really fantastic episode. The chart of psychological factors was very helpful in understanding the things we'd need to get through. Great job Issac and team! I do have one idea that might make the format of these shows even more helpful to the audience. Putting a summary of the knowlege/ideas that you'd like your audience to walk away with at the end of every episode might help to recap things. I've been a long-time fan and Patreon supporter since 2017 and I'm always so mesmorized by the imagery and thoughts that I oftentimes find myself asking "What did I really learn in the last 30 minutes?" at the end of every episode. Of course, that's a fantastic reason to go rewatch the entire episode again, but a summary would be helpful as well. Once again, great work. This is by far the best inspirational and educational RUclips Channel ever created and is always a fun bonding time with my 12-year-old son as we both look forward to watching the content together every Thursday.
I second this idea, it's not about 'dumbing down' content, but reinforcing the conclusions that were reached after working through the problem.
As a visually-minded person I too get distracted by the increasingly realistic CGI graphics, or Chris Hadfield 'playing' with his food, so often find myself going back a few sentences, which breaks the flow of the presentation.
Knowing that there's going to be a summary would put the mind at ease knowing that if I missed anything, it'll be covered in brief at the end, so I could just continue unless I really 'spaced out'.
It would also make catching up with a previous episode that provides important context for a new one be a lot more feasible. The only ones where a summary wouldn't be appropriate would be for story-based series like the recent one about exoplanet detectors, probes, and explorers.
In summary (so meta), I feel that a summary would be helpful to:
1. Reinforced the key takeaways
2. Obviate the need for incessant rewinding
3. Make it trivial to catch up with previous videos that are 'required viewing' for a new one
Worst thing for me would be boredom. Second worst thing might be the feeling of being trapped. Being still or in a confined space isn't tough for me. But being forced to is. In space, you don't have the option to leave and this just compounds every other psychological effect.
Boredom?!? Your having a laugh aren't you there is little to no spare time to get bored on "real" space mission. Shuttle and ISS crews have absolutely packed schedules mostly involving running numerous experiments and taking care of their allotment of daily maintenance activities. Same would apply to long haul missions to Mars just with a much higher proportion of "required to stay alive" maintenance.
Your comment of claustrophobia is incoherent and contradictory, you don't mind confinement, but you do if you have no choice?? Thats like saying am fine eating brussels sprouts(inset an activity you like), but not when am required to. Those statements make no sense together. If your ok with brussels then your OK with them being enforced makes no practical difference. Makes even less sense since confinement is usually an enforced situation by definition.
That can be solved with large spaced ships and small crews.
@@Blowfeld20k I was with you until you brought up choice. There's a big difference between sitting in an empty room in your house or being in a jail cell. Even if they were the same exact condition.
In one you are comfortable you put yourself in that situation and you can remove yourself whenever you want to. In the jail cell you're stuck there no matter what you do, what you say, you are in this situation.
Even if ultimately the person is responsible for what put them in jail just like you being responsible for going on this mission voluntarily. It does not change the fact that being confinement is literally torture for a social species like ours. Choice or at least the illusion of such, is important for our sanity.
@@Blowfeld20k Congratulations on writing what is possibly the most aggressive response imaginable to a simple statement about personal perception. Do you feel better now?
@@astreinerboi There's a reason they aren't on the team of researchers responsible for refinements in space psychology. I'd argue such tremendous lack of empathy should mean that they shouldn't be involved with _any_ psychology studies, if I'm being honest.
One problem - when in space, one cannot watch Isaac Arthur episodes immediately when they come out due to time lag and poor internet connection! LOTS OF STRESS WAITING FOR THE EPISODE TO DOWNLOAD!
I have a better connection and more content that can be watched live from Mars, but it's table-flipping frustrating to have to wait while RUclips fetches content from a *different* world wide web.
As a third-world South-East Asian, it's probably the most normal thing in space for us :P
Back in the day, we used to say that MRE really stood for "Meals Rejected by Ethiopians". Although, to be fair:
A) MREs are better now than they were in the 1980s, and
B) they really weren't that bad even then, it just got old eating them day after day.
As an emergency food, or even as a lightweight food for camping or hiking trips they're fine.
At the mention of food crumbs all I could think of was "They'll clog the instruments!" ... "Careful, they're ruffled!"
Thank god for The Inanimate Carbon Rod
@Isaac Arthur I think a great analogy to some of the prolonged stress experienced in space would be the closest Earth parallel: Saturation Diving.
From weeks to months in the close-quarter environment only to go on excursions in a basically instantly-fatal environment if critical failure to suit occurs; to the various systems to ensure heat regulation, air scrubbing/recycling, intermediate chambers, the physical fatigue, etc.
They are far more similar than space vs regular surface diving.
This episode reminded me of an experiment that was done years ago, though I forget which country conducted it. Basically they took a certain amount of introverts and extroverts, and then buried them in an underground bunker for over a year. They had a large amount of entertainment options and regular tasks to do. The results were a bit inconclusive, but the introverts handled being there a lot easier than the extroverts. The downside is that the introverts weren't as effective than the extroverts upon being released and having more responsibilities.
@Lawofimprobability I don't remember who conducted it, but I do remember that it wasn't the US.
It cannot be said too often: "Thank you for your service in the military." Very much appreciated.
Happy Thursday! Almost through another week, Isaac makes the homestretch that much easier. Live long and prosper 🖖🏻
I prefer to leave them until the weekend, once I've chewed through the Friday glut of youtube videos from my usual channels. That way I can watch the pictures while playing a chill game on the other machine, and let my mind drift a bit.
Being ex Navy I can relate to a bunch of this and I'm sure my submarine brethren even more so. I'd love to go into space but I wouldn't go thinking that it would be all sunshine and roses.
Still want to go through.
Me too, but when it comes to technology, never be an early adopter
We know how to wash our ass better than most lol
As an Army brat, I thank you for your service. I wonder if you and the psycologist talked about the issues of raising children in space during generations long trips to other systems or galaxies. Also how the society itself will change from the orinal to the arrival. Thank you and your team for all your work on these fascinating subjects.
I have been going crazy waiting for this weeks episode. If only I had a video explaining how to stay sane during the wait.
Treating the whole building site here in the UK to Isaac’s melodic tones, might be a health & safety issue with people falling asleep
As an introvert who doesnt even like leaving the house, Im always amused hearing about people going stir crazy; especially because of things going on such as covid. People complaining about not being able to go out and Im just sitting here thinking "thank god I dont have to go out!".
Like some people go stir crazy because they are in enclosed spaces for weeks or months on end and I literally have had depressive episodes where I didnt even leave my room for months at a time except to use the bathroom. Im wondering if the problem isn't always the enclosed spaces, but possibly the lack of personal space.
I like to go out on MY terms.
That sounds very ominous. Lol
You’re definitely on to something. Having personal space is everything.
Can really do without windows on a space ship. There are all sorts of advantages to not having windows - structural and shielding simplicity, easier layout of living spaces as screens can be put anywhere, reduction in the effects of rotation (screens can be programmed to not show rotation), easier to change the view to whatever you desire, no micrometeors wearing out windows. Also, what is seen on the screens can be engineered for the benefit of the crew - like being able to sleep in the middle of a forest, with all the sights, sounds, and maybe even smells.
You might do a thought experiment on "Killing Windows" and pull the string and see where it leads.
Happy Arthur'sday , I can see now from my destroyed eye albeit everything is blurry but some vision is better than none, right now your content is keeping me sane on earth, love from Jamaica 🇯🇲❤
I hope your eye can heal or be fixed.
I would think that the nuclear submarine crews of the world's navies have many years of experience dealing with these problems. However, most 'cruises' are shorter than a trip to Mars or Venus.
5-6 month deployments are fun.
I was a carrier guy, and we had several multi month no see any land deployments.
Not seeing the light day is another factor.
I read details of the ships manifest of my ancestors emigrating from England to Sydney in the early 1840's as a family of 5, including babies. 380 emigrants on an 800 ton sailing ship on its maiden voyage, just 160 feet long. 99 days at sea, did not stop at any port. Did not communicate with any other craft. No air conditioning of course. One seaman, two adult emigrants, two girls and ten infants died. A good outcome. Passengers all passed a vote of thanks to the captain for keeping them in good health. Tough days!
Something bigger than the problem is church which gives confidence, and a feeling that I have a wingman to help, watch my six, and not be alone.
Doing something, even commenting on something gives some sense of control.
There was a S-F story years ago about a spaceship coming across another previous one in which the crew went crazy. One realized what happened and damaged the life support system on his good fully automatic no-touch spaceship so that his crew had something important to do and occupy their time. That spaceship made it to the destination and future designs had some manual requirements.
I went to space, but when I came back---I was a Zebra. Still sane though. But my shrink no longer returns my calls.
I love how you make so many parallels between your military experience and space flight. I did the same thing in my commercial space operations undergraduate and my space studies master's degrees. Most of my class mates got tired of me playing the "old vet who sees parallels in everything", but I GOT all the subjects the professors were talking about, especially human factors and psychological considerations in space, BECAUSE of that expierence. Thank you for your service. You and I were potentially at Ramadi at the same time! I was an army truck driver from 05-08, and deployed to the Al-anbar province out of Al Asad air base twice. During that time. I spent many a night at Ramadi, Haditha, COP north, COP South, Camp Wolf, and several others pulling supply convoy missions.
i've been working nights for the last 5 years with a small crew of people. I'm pretty sure i'd be okay on a long space mission as long as i had art supplies music and cannabis a a like minded friend to share down time with. You should do a video on Art AI i've been toying with MidJourney and i would love to see were this tech could go in personal artist expression, for some reason a lot of artist feel threatened by it but I found it instantly useful.
you won't be allowed to burn a candle let alone smoke. better bring edibles instead lol
fellow vampire worker
I prefer working nights did it 25 years with the state now doing it on weekends as a security guard
Gonna get dumped on for this but the studies are pretty clear at this point that cannabis isn't good for memory and cognition and it probably increases risk of dementia later in life. Also increases risk of schizophrenia.
@@xXx_Regulus_xXx i'm thinking yeast that's been genetically altered to produce thc
I love learning about the psychological aspect of living in space. Thank you!
Ironing clothes is a good stress-reliever task, but remember, in Space, nobody can hear you steam.
The Most Crucial decision to save the Astronauts on Apollo 13 was made during LM development by Chief Engineer Tom Kelly. When NASA turned down the LM Lifeboat option, he could have shrunk the Oxygen Tanks to the size required for the Lunar Missions. He kept the Larger tank, to support possible extended Lunar stay missions, knowing it would be easier to shrink the tank later, if he needed the weight or space inside the LM, rather than having to enlarge it later. That decision is what saved the Astronauts without the Larger oxygen tank the Astronauts suffocate before getting home.
Got my drink and snack ready.
8:00 I can't say I agree. I've bought many mres for storage and eaten on camping trips. The same ones used in the military and it's usually good enough that it does provide the relief of eating a full meal. It's like making dinner you and your friends sit down and prep the food. It's kinda fun and you can exchange foods that are more preferable. Like I always want the deserts and someone else wants the fruits or you can exchange the main course. MRE are always great.
Have you ever heard of the 2018 hit game Among Us? I thought not, its not a story the crewmates would tell you, its an impostor legend. Darth Red the Sus was so powerful that he could vent to the people he loved, but his aprentice ejected him in his sleep. Ironic, he could gather a susillion dollars, but not survive.
Kinda funny that this video is what finally nudged me to get around to the deep cleaning I've been putting off.
In my youth I was a submariner. I also, have suffered from anxiety during midlife. But, one of the things that I enjoyed about ship life was comraderie. Civilian life with its sensory overload was what led to anxiety. So of us introverts need time alone. What makes ship board life tolerable was submarine or surface warfare qualifications. We were always busy. As you mentioned sailors have active religious and spiritual lives. What's infuriates me about Civilian life is too many social rules that are forever changing because there is no longer a strong social structure. Learning and understanding personality profiles (a.k.a Kersey/Bates) is very beneficial. Society excluseds introverts and lauds extroverts (type A's). For Space travel it is these ridgid personalities that need to be excluded. An introvert can learn to be social. Know it all's are untrainable. Curious people will never be board, there's always something else go learn!
My little brother did four tours in Iraq. He now spends 4th of July in the bathtub with a blanket over his head. Fuck that fucking war.
Dr. Bot on Space Station 76 gave very simplistic answers (including “take more Valium”) to the crew members. The Captain needed psychological help, but rather quickly realized the limits of Dr. Bot’s programming, and found great comfort in gaming the responses.
It's a miracle poor Mark Watney was able to sat sane on Mars with nothing but the crews entertainment and Disco... so much disco.
Most informative as always Isaac.
Space bars make so much more sense in Sci fi after watching this.
One of the best movies about space madness, stresses and spiritual awakenings is Sunshine, great movie.
7:59 MRE 17 Beef Teriyaki Was one of the best! if memory serves it came with vanilla pound cake and hot cocoa powder, we used coffee creamer and a little water to make chocolate pudding.
The Iraq war sucked, but it did have some good memories.
"One has to first achieve sanity in order to sustain it".
- Churchill, probably
Frankly that intro shot of the glove floating calmly away is the scariest scene I have seen in quite a while.
I've never played d&d but I'll always Dungeons and Dragons will be will be the ultimate game for space travel. Creating infinite worlds playing as a different people and the game settng naturally lasting for hours in one sitting makes it almost as if there was made for this type of situation. I can also see "World Hopping" being more of a thing. Oh and all made out of primitive supplies if any
Man i missed the old thumbnails,with the logo and the text and all,made your videos recognizable and unique
You made a good choiche bringing them back
Quarantine has taught me just how difficult life would be with such isolation and constant danger and uncertainty in space life -- until its Enterprise-quality.
Isaac you are one inspirational person. Soldier, educator, engineer, scientist and extraordinarily humble and personable. Just wanted to say that.
For basic small comfort in space, on the moon or Mars. It might be worthwhile to have a Tiki bar. Other option, I had a concept for a rotation garden park. Rather than an extensive walk to see different scenery. If at least two areas of garden with, rock, trees and other features rotate slowly, you get the chance to see different aspects as you walk around various paths or sit on a park bench. Other features on the side could be stream(s), small field, small pond(s) and lined with trees.. Since it rotates, main lighting, watering, and collection of compost material from/for plants could be placed at a central location. Addition ambient lighting could be placed around the perimeter. Additional features could be a sign post, well, bridge, clock tower, chain and post fence, etc. If done well it would be able to be placed in a small room, with a big skylight it might almost feel like the great outdoors. First had the idea for a small yet jam packed park for an old folks home were they could walk for a little or a lot amount of time. All within a small area.
I now have head-canon of you storming an alien battlefield, in power armor, screaming "For the Emperor" in a confusingly-scary lisp.
Like Caboose in Red Vs Blue?
@@r3dp9 Hey Caboose, are you getting any of this?
I think so. That guy Tex is really a robot, and you're his girlfriend, that makes you....a gay robot.
Yeah that's right, I'm a gay robot.
I alway thought it might be necessary to "break" people before long space journeys, just small psychological issues but it was better they already had them, we knew of the issue, the person had tactics the deal with it and it would be harder to break someone who was already broken. Like if someone turned into a work a lohic after a family death or something similar.
Now that I know better it would be better to have a couple of psychological consultants, Ai pet buddies like a drone that looks like that person's favorite pokemon or imaginatiary friend that will monitor their state of mind and will be a shoulder to cry on. Like the robot cat from buzz lightyear.
Therapy is supposed to help you with introspection, and self-reflection-but you can only do so much of that until you’re “Talking to Yourself”-and that’s potentially a symptom of psychosis.
I've been watching/listening to your channel for years now, and it's still very interesting. I found this one particularly thought-provoking, so thanks for your hard work, and for uploading this.
7:58
Woah there. Yes, the military has invested a lot into making MREs, but I wouldn't call it food. Too many ingredients, too many preservatives, tons of high fructose corn syrup. Highly active young males can get away with eating that junk for short periods of time, but I wouldn't call it "wise" or "nutritious".
Nutritionally (and in cost) you'd be better off with dehydrated pure foods (oats, rice, etc) that are cooked with small amounts of hot water. Personally, I think dehydrated stuff tastes better too.
Sadly, out society is addicted to junk food, so we get served junk food in school and military cafeterias. Because we get raised on junk food in school and military cafeterias, we get addicted to junk food. It's a vicious, self perpetuating cycle that requires a lot of diligence to escape from. (Military cafeteria is how I got addicted to Coca Cola Zero, which I normally would never have drank.)
18:17
I just thought of another stressor: Visual clutter. You know how having lots of junk on the floor makes your head hurt, but having a clean room makes you feel good? The space station has "junk" cluttering every single wall, floor, and "ceiling".
No clue you served. Thanks, Isaac for your service and the great videos!
"use your own judgment, that's an order"
This has convinced me that interstellar colonization is not possible. The vessel would arrive hundreds of years later full of corpses or gibbering lunatics, if it arrived at all. 💀
To paraphrase Ford Prefect, you can drive yourself crazy trying to stay sane, so why not go mad now and save your sanity for later when you'll need it?
it's always nice when I find a new video from Isaac and love finding unwatched old ones, makes my day
Ya know, if you subscribe, you can get notifications everytime he drops New video, even more so he drops his videos every thursday.
Great video. One thing I’ve wondered about that you didn’t mention is anxiety over life support systems failure. Knowing that you are one equipment failure away from certain death would have to take a toll on you. Yes, there are redundant systems and spare parts, but those will always be be finite, and earth is very very far away.
I don’t know, that’s the sort of thing that would keep me up at night if I were on an interstellar voyage!
I could really relate to your commentary about the effects of people being cooped up over time - it reminds me of when my battalion went from being in the barracks at an isolated base overseas to being deployed at sea, and my company was billeted in a small troop compartment (we had to climb a ladder to get in and out) with bunks placed four high, too close together to sit straight up in your bunk, with rows of bunks a few feet apart. Even though we could get out of the compartment during the day to other parts of the ship, after a few weeks you could almost hear the ticking of people getting close to exploding. When we went ashore for training, there was a riot at the enlisted club the first night we were ashore.
As for MREs, I still mourn the old C-rations; most of them were far better.
The info about food tasting different at different levels of air pressure is fascinating! I had no idea. I live at an altitude of a little over 5,500 feet above sea level (Albuquerque, NM), so maybe airline food would taste normal for people who live at this altitude.
Was hoping this was going to be a "how to" episode. I work a remote job solo, think lighthouse keeper plus security, with a year on year off schedule. The space madness does creep up on you it does. Acceptance is the first step.
17:24 space farming of plants would fix that. I use plants as natural air filters in my room! They're perfumy too - adding a nice scent compared to just eliminating odors. The ones I grow with a lot of scent release are basil and pineapple chamomile.
I live in a small village, moved here after growing up in one of the biggest metropolises in the world.
Even though I prefer the freedom of access to nature here, the loneliness of living somewhere that you KNOW lacks anyone your age that's single is heavy. In the big city, the possibility of meeting someone new you click with helps keep you moving. When it's a fact of life that no such opportunity will come, it's tough keeping my mood up in the evening when it's too dark and cold to keep myself distracted with nature.
This is my favorite episode thus far. very introspective.... keep these type of episodes coming brother!
Thank you for your service. I think this is the first time I've heard you talk about it, and I think that's an indicator of great character.
Micro-meteoroids, decompression, lack of inertial dampeners. The imagined stress of not being tied down to a source of gravity is too much to bear.
Okay but *why* did the one group stop working for the day? The why is pretty important. Was it in protest to work conditions/the amount of work they were given, for instance? If so, I wouldn't call that closing in on mental illness. I'd probably support any protest in such a case to be honest. The people we send up deserve to be treated decently, after all, but the same could easily be said for the people we aren't sending up lmao
@Lawofimprobability those are human beings with human needs and emotions tho, not machines meant solely for our sciencey pleasure.
Working them is fine. Even giving them a bit of a busy schedule to make good use of time & money. But they need time to de-stress and live with themselves.
Pushing them like slaves is not excusable just because it was a big investment, my guy.
From the psychological perspective [and possibly logistics / engineering viewpoint] as missions get longer further away from Earth the ideal astronaut candidate, the "Best of the Best" is not some strong chinned Chad air force test pilot but rather somebody who has been long term unemployed or has Hikikomori traits. Used to Isolation, bad food, lack of sunlight and resistant to 'cabin fever' social dynamics.
I don't know if those are exactly the right traits ... but there will be some people who earnestly prefer that sort of isolation (rather than having it imposed upon them by capitalism and/or social anxiety). The food issue is particularly interesting to me, because there are folks who actually pay more for stuff like Soylent.
@@IsaacKuo I don't know if those are exactly the right traits either and moody teenagers in space is a bit of a trope but the case for it being practical is compelling. The kids have the skills with less mass/ volume, lower calorie + life support requirements... Just sayin Anime could become reality
Hopefully the instruction manuals in space will be (and indeed hopefully are) on average clearer and more precise than many of the ones down here on Earth. Potentially having to try to fix your life support system using poorly drawn diagrams would be quite stressful I would imagine...
Maybe they can train people to fix the life support before hand. If there is one or two people that can fix a few components blindfolded, then on average you should be able to keep everything running unless things get so bad you lose half the crew. If that happens, then there was not much extra repair training or manuals would do imo.
@@VainerCactus0 this was solved in one story. On day five after launch, a Line of Demarcation was drawn throughout the ship separating Port Colonists from Starboard Colonists. Students working in small groups set to work memorizing rote facts about how to make the ship systems go and maintain flight systems and biological homeostasis. Kids don’t care about their parents’ obsessions, but they’ll do anything to defeat a rival. By the third generation, the ship is divided into two theocracies locked in a vicious Cold War, opposing each other based on minute points of received doctrine. By journey’s end, the two sides are eager to colonize the target planet so they can build weapons and vehicles to better wage holy war on the infidels. Birth rates stay high, as do morale and motivation. Each rival colony is united in their Manifest Destiny. It may not be the “best” outcome, but it has more than ample historical precedent.
I was just thinking of a holodeck kinda situation that allows an astronaut to schedule sessions with their family. Imagine a guy in space scheduling a time, going onto this holodeck kinda thing with a couch and table etc, he wears a haptic feedback suit. His wife and son on Earth head to the facility with a room identical to his wearing haptic feedback too. They enter and it's like they're in the same room with one another and they can hug each other and everything and feel the hugs, sit on the couch and chit chat with some snacks etc, catch up on how things are going on Earth. Maybe schedule it once a week or two.
It would take time for the signals to travel through space. You would try to hug your family and the signal wouldn’t arrive on earth for hours or days, and vice versa
@@Afaustianbargainbin Yeah, I figured that but i'm assuming this would operate on some good future tech stuff like Quantum entanglement or something, I dunno. I'm no rocket surgeon, they can figure it out.
and to think I'm just trying to stay sane on Earth - now I need to try to stay sane in space too! Isaac's preparing me.
When listing hazards you forgot predators and xenomorphs
I believe staying busy with long-term projects - like hobbies that bring designs to reality that once built, help out the spaceflight - would be super helpful. Archiving and documenting large databases - like journal records of what's happened is also really time-consuming yet pertinent and useful.
Gardening too.
Tending to plants & watching them grow day by day, looking forward to some fresh food to supplement all the rehydrated packet crud that's normally on the menu.
.....Pandorum 2009. When you go nuts in space i think they call it Pandorum?
It's cool how many different space-things you explore the concepts thereof.
I toured Mexico, all the way down to the Yucatan, in the 80's with nothing but a backpack, some clothes, a few blankets, and a water bottle. No money, no visa....and no Spanish. I almost didn't make it, but I did. Learned a lot about myself and people in general on that adventure. Don't Panic! Use your head.
The further south I got, the nicer people were, mostly. The worst people were the police. Even in the 80s, a lot of police were corrupt. They kept trying to rob me, but I didn't have any money or things of value. That was awkward. I survived on charm.
We're all quite sane here especially when it is Arthursday
We all float!
I think I'd be concerned and want to help the boss with their mental health issue rather than mutiny, but then I ofen don't like power hierarchies as a whole, everyone is after all a fellow human.
I have seen some dark fantasy fiction about deadly realms, and now I am reminded in a more visceral way that deadly realms actually are real.
The feeling of a room is often just as much defined by its relationship with thr outside as the room itself. Space is generally inhospitable to human life. Any colony, especially early scale, will have a antagonist relationship with the outside, much like early cabins in Antarctica.
In the story that I'm writing, modern day humans had to evacuate Earth when the nuclear and albedo options failed to save Earth from asteroids. The main crux is a fleet of ships returning to the majority of humanity after 30 years and observing the differences between them. This is one subject that I've been very interested in.
Without windows, I was thinking about stealing an idea from one of the antartic bases, being a "bright room." When people start to wear down, they're given a shift (literally their assigned task for the day) in the bright room for R&R. Ironically, the main character prefers his R&R in what time he can schedule in the "coffin," basically a cubby with extra soundproofing and baffles to deaden noise from the air systems with a single LED for light that you can shut off. He desperately craves the ability to enjoy some peace, quiet, and silence in order to relax. One reason for this is because, as the first person born on board, he's spent his life being fast tracked to become command some day. That takes a heavy mental toll on him, and being around others reminds him of the weight he carries, so being alone is his best solace. Naturally, the events conspire to both give him that in a negative way, but also to deny him that terribly.
Everyone was able to bring a certain weight of things, and I've been thinking about the people who had foresight for their own sanity and those who didn't. There's a character who brought a ton of cartoons; some anime, but also kids shows from their youth. He not only gets on well with the kids for this, but being able to relax to an episode or two of Batman the Animated Series as his bunk lights dim just before bed has become a beloved anti-stress routine for him. Meanwhile, more than one crewmember brought things that either broke down easier or were consumed found themselves without over time.
I still have a lot more research to do on this subject, and this was a good reminder that I was thinking in the right directions. Thank you.
Ren and Stimpy did a show about this once.
the one where they went into the black hole?
Have to say that I found the table 3. Known Spaceflight Stressors really interesting to read.
I suppose it is something where most people find a third of those to be really likely stressors for themselves, a third to be none issue (or in many cases, just stressors they think wouldn't affect them but just haven't realized yet. Actually being subjected to them tend to bring out things in people they didn't realize before) and a last third of things that they never thought of but find to be possible problems.
tl;dr: That table really is worth an episode on itself and that is what most of this one is.
Thank you for your service Mr. Arthur.
Don't forget to bring your towel.
Large TVs are becoming cost competitive with 'picture windows'. That means that you can have any view you like - even if your 'apartment' is underground, or underwater, or in vacuum.
The movie Aniara is interesting. A group of people are stuck on a space ship which is supposed to take them to Mars. The ship goes off course. There is no way for them to get back. A large percentage develop mental health issue, some suicides. It is on Prime.
I just remember the skylab mission that mutinied. That was a short mission but with tons of stress and pressure.
Don’t worry. The ship’s supercomputer will select the optimal holographic companion to keep you sane.
Optimal not guaranteed if ship’s computer also insane.
Your comment about not knowing how people would react to not coming back to earth for years if on a mission, or ever if a colonist, got me thinking that we actually do have an analogue for those things in our history already, which would be Age of Sail voyages and colonization efforts. James Cook and Ferdinand Magellan (among others) both took around 3 years to circumnavigate the world. There are also letters and journals of people who were colonists with their reflections on what is was like to leave their homes with no chance of ever returning. It is not a perfect analogue to space travel, but it is as good as we'll get and can at least allow some preparation for the psychological stresses of space flight.
By the way Isaac, your thumbnail for this video is absolutely fantastic. Give your team member who did that a pat on the back for me. I might need to reach out to them for an album cover as they are far superior to my skill level.
Solution 1: FTL
Solution 2: Cryosleep
Solution 3: Simulated reality as past time for crew
In all fairness though i do believe its pointless to venture far out without FTL. nobody you know will exist when you return, and whatever purpose your mission had will have been acheived long ago by better means.
Yeah, being used to nice GBK burgers, ploughman's, steaks, szechuan soup, polish rye sour soup, and Chinese Dry Pot. But then you're in space and the only things to eat are various generic ration pack sludge or taco with some sugar sludge. 🤷🏻♂️
The hardest part for me would be sharing a small space with other people. No fresh air, no trees or animals....not feeling sun on my skin.
or worse, feeling the part of the sun's spectrum that's worse for you than what you get planetside.
So it's basically all the stress of a normal workplace in an environment that's trying to kill you.