I think it's first impression and how to spend time with them, which the Emperor who can foresee the future failed to do. (He must pick the safest option)
i mean, after the first chaos marine kill you have access to free weapons, i feel like him still fighting the rest bare handed speaks to his management skills
Well the weapons would be kind of useless to him. I mean his hand is likely bigger than the head of a regular space marine, so his grip would be clumsy making his blows weak and slow. He is way better off going Mike Tyson on them.
@@crazyscotsman9327 now hold on a second there is ONE effective weapon you can pull from a chaos marine, his own whole ass body makes a PERFECT projectile.
You know what is even worse than Plot Armor ? Plot armor as Deus Ex Machinas out of nowhere. Demons being able to res is kinda the point of demons. If Big E. is able to resurrect you if he feels like it, then not only is he befitting the title of a God but I would say there is no point getting corrupted by Chaos if worshipping Big E gets you the same benefits without drawbacks
The fact he didn't love the emperor makes that scene in Forgotten Empire even sadder to me. He didn't consider the emperor his father he still saw his fellow primarchs as his brothers. As seen with the table and seats.
Liked the vid honestly,but I’m curious about how you’d do a vid on big E,and while I do understand why people would give him a lot of shit. Not many talk about his virtues,instead of just skimming over them in terms of lore. And it’s honestly somewhat tiring,he’s protected earth and basically reconquered the galaxy,so I’d be very interested to see a deeper look in the lore. As said before I love the vid.
Tarasha: Open wide Bobby, here comes the airplane! Lil' Roboute: Ridiculous mother, my mashed peas do not possess the necessary velocity for atmospheric flight
@@discountplaguedoctor88to be fair, girly man also has a pretty big stick up his own ass. Nothing compared to the mighty oak of Rogal Dorn, but quite the log.
if i ever had to meet guilliman on the strategic field the absolute prime directives would be continuous decapitation strikes and never lose the initiative
@@PeachDragon_You’d still be dead within an hour. It doesn’t matter how thorough you are when concocting your strategy; Guilliman is a primarch, and as such can adapt like no other. He’d probably see what you’re doing, pull back his forces and order a strategic bombardment on your position.
@@WaallyOne im reading the HH books rn and with some exceptions (Battle of Calth and Brtrayer give us a more raging Guilliman. Still analytical but more focused on cracking skulls, even fighting Angron hand to hand and even stalling him) Guilliman is simple. Now, thats not bad, but he doesnt really stick out. He is a boy scout as someone said here. Now in 40K? Its tragic. He wants to do better, *to be better* but he cant or the Imperium will crumble. The 30K Imperium was still kind of a hellhole but at least it was a hellhole that wanted better. Fuck, they even tried to be allies witj some xeno species (funny enough one of those species was the Laer, Fulgrim decided to kill them but those werent his original orders) but 40K Imperium? They will gladly tear each others' throats because of suspected heresy. And Guilliman hates it. He hates it all, he simply wants to be a farmer yet he is forced to keep fighting even when he literally died and was brought back
‘We are all our father’s sons,’ he said. ‘You are all facets of the Emperor,’ Kor Phaeron amended. ‘You are aspects pulled from a genetic primer. The Lion is your father’s rationality - his analytical skill - unburdened by conscience. Magnus is his psychic potential and eager mind, unrestrained by patience. Russ is his ferocity, untempered by reason. Even Horus...’ ‘Go on,’ Lorgar said, looking up now. ‘What of Horus?’ ‘The Emperor’s ambition, unshaped by humility. Think of all the worlds where our Legion waged war alongside the Luna Wolves. You’ve seen it as well as I have. Horus hides his arrogance, but it is there - a layer beneath his skin, a shroud around his soul. Pride beats through his body like blood.’ ‘And Guilliman?’ Lorgar let his hands rest on his knees again. A smile inched across his features. ‘Guilliman.’ Kor Phaeron’s narrow lips moulded into a grimace, opposing his primarch’s smirk. ‘Guilliman is your father’s echo, heart and soul. If all else went wrong, he would be heir to the empire. Horus is the brightest star and you carry your father’s face, but Guilliman’s heart and soul are cast in the Emperor’s image.’
@@cal593it's right there in the quote. Lorgar is the Emperor's face. His passion. His oratory skill and ability to BELIEVE. Lorgar is the Emperor's Faith.
Favorite Guilliman moment personally is when he couldn't look Dante in the eye because he was wearing Sanguinius' death mask as a helmet. Robutes so fucked up by not being on terra in time to save his brother he cant even make eye contact with a blood angel wearing a mask that looks like him.
Everyone loves Sanguinius, it's just that Gman is more devastated than ever because Dante is a reminder of Golden Good Angel Boy is the better primach love by all who sacrifice his life so that even in the bleak future at the least sangy made the best effort to deviate the coming dark future. Sangy is a very tragic character
Probably felt a bit ashamed as well seeing how Dante was forced into running the Blood Angels before and after Reebot got boozled poor lad never had a weekend
Some notable things I kinda remember: 1: Guilliman got so angry when shot into space (and the betrayal) it was legit DOOM. 2: Guilliman tore through a window through space and time to save his Mom 3: When he woke up, all the fighting legit stopped and they all stared in awe at him getting up. Before one Khorne berserker tried to kill him, but well that berserker got whacked.
@@iang257 In 'Unremembered Empire', where the Pharos beacon was first activated: Guilliman, The Lion, and Barbarus Dantioch (Iron Warriors Loyalist) found out you can use the beacon through intent. Dantioch saved Guilliman, The Lion pulled Guilliman back to Maccrage, and Guilliman pulled his mom from harms way.
@@xemnufromthemagicplanet1678 I think he figured, either I get a Primarch kill if I win (instant demonprince status) or I get taken out by goddamn Guilliman in personal combat. (Instant bragging rights.) Win/Win. Plus, if your a Khornate, can you really say no to a chance at fighting that man?
Gulliman is also very good at improvising. When he was ambushed by 10 alpha legion space marines and was unarmed, he had to fight his way to safety like Jackie Chan. He threw his table, ink pot, paperweight and whatever he got in his hand to buy time to steal a weapon from them.
The Alpha legionaire who was hiding behind the wall for a surprise attack decided to abort the mission and returned to give his report: "I saw him kill three Astartes with a pencil. A fecking pencil!" Truly a tale of two enemies coming together to face a common threat...
I hate to give Kor Phaeron any respect, but taking a punch from a Primarch and living to tell the tale is pretty impressive, especially for a man his age.
@@TheXenomorphwarrior I can almost hear it now. "Hello, Life Alert? Yeah, it's Kor Phaeron again. What? No, it was Guilliman this time. Learn my lesson?!? Listen here son, back in my day . . ."
I'm looking forward to GW releasing and reviving Lion El'Johnson and how he will compare to big daddy G on the tabletop and how they will advance his story in the 41st Millenium.
Gulliman is the middle child of the primarchs he’s mentally, emotionally stable and proved to be reliable general so nobody payed that much attention he had the freedom to pretty much do what he wanted and no one seems to question that ultramar was his own personal empire in the imperium.
Typically the middle child is the ignored,bland and uncharacteristic child. They're usually the ones doing anything they can to get attention and love from the eldest or youngest child.
@@justing.3541Its more like the middle child gets used to not getting the babying or privileges so they just grow up rational and eager to show their worth
"A cyber cherub clattered in a clumsy search pattern around the scriptorium on metal wings. Such things were grotesque, techno-alchemy far removed from the purer machinery of his day. The madness of Mars had infected everything; The cherub’s emerald eyes flashed at each word. The sensibilities of this age did not appeal to Guilliman. Hateful art for a hateful time; The primarch watched it go back to its roost with critical eyes. The wings were more than adornment; from the sound of it, there was not enough lift in the gravity impeller to keep it aloft. The machines of this millennium were crude. The engineers among his brothers would probably have caught the thing in a net and rebuilt the motor; he was close to doing so himself. Either that, or tossing it out of an airlock into the void and replacing it with something less ghoulish." - Big Bobby G, reviewing a Cherub in Dark Imperium
Superhuman by human standards but human by Primarch standards. Roboute is the ultimate example of nurture beating nature. Gifted people crash hard when they start losing. Thanks for agreeing, brothers ❤
If Robust Girlyman was in charge of the imperium when they first discovered the Tau there would be no Tau empire. Paperwork doesnt just get lost in Bobby G's imperium
Gullimen might take a L or two but the war and crusade will be won in the end and he’s always getting stronger and better he can be hated but respected is a must for this Primarch “strategy is for amateurs Logistics are for Professionals”
Personal hope: Imperium fractures, with a stronger part under Roboute reconsolidating as a new Imperium, and a section becoming a massive space for Tau expansion.
Guillliman to me is the greatest primarch because he focuses on the things that having a genius demi-god in control could genuinely be a massive force multiplier for - logistics, strategy and administration. You can be the best fighter or battlefield tactician in the history of the universe, but you're still ultimately one dude on one battlefield. Guilliman can manage an entire crusade to both take back Imperial worlds while simultaneously distributing Primaris reinforcements to depleted chapters all over the galaxy. Even people who aren't big Rowboat fans generally concede that if any primarch can "save" the Imperium, it'll be him - and that's precisely BECAUSE people recognize how massively important his skills are. Honestly, current lore Guillliman's only real fault is his over-estimation of his own combat skills, as he had to get bailed out twice by Big E against daemon Mortarion or he'd have died. Current Guilliman is acutely aware of his own fallibility and mistakes, has no lust for power, and sets aside his issues with his father because he genuinely cares about humanity. He fights for a future for humanity AFTER war, and not just to smite the Imperium's enemies for it's own sake.
I don't think he overestimates his fighting prowess necessarily.. I think it's coz he thinks "fuck it, no one else can do it so I might as well try" out of guilt for having failed the imperium..
@@yawarapuyurak3271 in the Grimdarkness of the 41th millennium, one man is about to unleash mankind's most power weapon.... *G-man sits at his desk and loads up MS Office*
@@lavatun I think that’s definitely part of it but there have been some glaring moments where he tried to clutch a 1v1 he had no business being in. Case in point, the time Fulgrim damn near put him in a backwood because Rowboat lowkey tried to hinge an engagement on his ability to hold off Fulgrim for long enough that his forces could win. We know how that ended. Then there was the more recent times rowboat tried to fight Mortarion and got dunked on so hard the emperor himself had to hit an uno reverse to clutch up the fight. Guilleman doesn’t do it incredibly often, but he’s definitely made some tactical mistakes and tried to box mfs he should have just bombed instead
During the Siege of Terra, it’s noted that Horus and his legions needed to move through Sol quickly, since Guilliman was behind them and had the might to crush them. The fact that Horus, who at this point was stronger than Sanguineous was not just uncertain but afraid of Guilliman says a lot about the Ultramarines power.
He wasn't stronger than Sanggy, The Golden boi fought for how long straight while Horus was chilling his male pattern baldness up in his ship. If Sanggys fresh than he's thrashing Horus.
He was scared because of the overwhelming numbers of the space marines from the ultramarines chapter. Remember at this point in 30k Guilliman basically had his own little empire and tens of thousands of astartes under his command. Horus was more afraid of the ultramarines coming down and just simply overwhelming the traitor legions with not only superior ultramarine tactics but also their insane numerical number. If I remember correctctly the ultramarines had over 100k standing Marines which is crazy to think about.
Shoutout to the Khorne Berzerker who,upon seeing a literal Primarch being revived in front of him, proceeded to scream, lunge forward, and take a swing at Bobby G. It did not end well.
As fan of Guilliman I need to say no. The most tragic is without doubt Angron. He was supposed to be second Vulkan, instead he was enslaved, debrained(half of his brain was replaced by Butcher's Nails) forced to kill a men he saw as father, denied his final stand with people he cared, slowly dying and going more and more mad with time, and when he was about to die and find peace, Lorgar betrayed him and turned into demon
@@macshadow1150 53 likest atm, so 53 people that missed the point completely. It's not that Guilliman's backstory is tragic in any way - and certainly not compared to Angron. It's that he is the competend good guy in power, so you almost think or hope that he will win and save the empireum and everything will be nice. Until you remember it is 40k and, just like the fantasy settings, chances are chaos will win in the end. Which makes all the tragedies suffered in the mean time looks even worse, including Angron.
@@Origami84 A bit offtopic, many people dont understand that if Angron did not had the nails, he would have died the day the Emperor found him, he would have died trying to kill the Emperor as he saw him as another slaver, without being broken by the Nails, his noble side would have lived on. For context this is described in "Betrayer" by ADB, while there is a flash back to the Night of the Wolf.
In the myth of Pandora's Box, the vessel contained all the sorrows and calamities that the gods would inflict upon humanity, but it also contained Hope. It is unclear if this was meant as a salve to soothe humanity's suffering or a final twist of the knife to heighten it.
The thing i love most about Guilliman is his belief that so much of the Imperiums "virtuous suffering" is unnecessary and counter-productive in giving people no reason not to turn to chaos.
But that also mirrors the worst thing about Guilliman. Yes, he says the Imperium is bad. But the Imperium was also created largely by HIS ideals. And for all his criticisms of the High Lords of Terra and the Cult Imperialis, they managed to hold the Imperium together for 10,000 years with no Emperor and no superhero primarchs, while his version of it didn't even last 300 years; the time from the Treaty of Mars to the Horus Heresy was not much longer than the time between now and the founding of the United States.
I just love the fact that GW created a Primarch (of all things) around logistics. One of the pillars of warfare and society. But when you consider how emotionally and intellectually mature the man is -- especially considering the traumas he's been through -- it creates a multi layered character. Which is something I like.
I’d say jagadahai khan is the greatest for loyalists as he was just a well of complexity mixed with the the greatest roasts of all primarchs. “Fight for a father I never loved against a brother I did. Fight for an army that never wanted me against an army that’d have me in a heart beat” is his best quote along with his heart touching wish for magnus to tell him how to fix him.
Of course then he just fucked off into the webway for thousands of years for no good reason while humanity went to shit. At least Rowboat Boogerman was and is still doing what he can to improve humanity's lot.
I would argue there *are* no greatest loyalists as they all have alot of issues, just like the traitors but instead of acknowledging them they just take the "moral high ground" However, Jaghatai is as close as we could probably get. He is pretty selfless, doesn't give into the haughty nature of his brothers and is self aware enough to know he *might* have joined Horus. He knows he isn't a great person, he knows people don't necessarily care for his personality and he was onto Emps from the moment he got to Terra. Jaghatai is the best Loyalist we got, too bad he is in the Webway
I like to think the Khan has the potential to understand all the other primarchs almost perfectly, his nature is like a strong gale force wind or a lighting bolt, he will suddenly strike and reveal all your weaknesses while you have no real way of being prepared for him. Hes more of a force of nature given the form of a man which is why he is so mercurial and reserved. I feel like the Khan could have been a primarch like Guilliman or like Magnus if he gave a shit about the things they cared about
@@Scottoest He also didn't waste time trying to start a Second Imperium and may have inadvertently given time to Chaos to wound the Emperor and kill Sanguinius.
Rollback Gorliiamap being the first to come back may seem like more GW favoring the Ultramarines, but him waking up and seeing the emperium in shambles and consequences of his codex is just perfect. It was so bad he once consider just running away and being an agri-farmer. Not to mention his fight with Motarian got him a full blast of Empgod's psych might, which made him cry. PAPA SMURF AINT HAVING A GOOOD TIME
Just wanted to mention he never thought about bailing after reviving he knew shit was too bad for him to leave. He daydreamed of becoming an agri farmer back during the heresy.
I’m not sure if you’re arguing against Guilliman being awesome here. But the fact that he recognizes his mistakes and doesn’t give up in light of everything you just mentioned is exactly what makes the modern depictions of Guilliman so awesome.
This makes me want to break my vow and make an ultramarine army for both how interesting Guilliman really seems to be and to piss off space marine fanboys.
Same here My brother just buried his Space Marine army, and he's lived through the Matt Ward era Cue me, who's coming to the hobby late, after Indomitus, and both because I like Bobby G and I want to see the cringe on his face, I'm painting Ultramarines together with Necrons.
Gulliman's depression at seeing the modern imperium is also fascinanting, so many moments where he sees things from the current Imperium and just goes what the fuck. Also his moments with Dante are solid to read just two depressed leaders having a moment of respect and him basically giving his one of Sanguinis's best sons command of essentially half the Imperium, which is nice considering he felt that the Angel would be a better emperor than he would be (even making him emperor of imperial secundus) and now he actually kinda live that idea with Dante
Even though I've fallen to heresy and darkness, I was an Ultramarine when I first started decades ago. I left the hobby for a few years but when I came back I found out that Guilliman had come back. The sense of relief I felt was real. My 2nd edition codex had some very good fluff about him and I hoped even then that they could find some way to heal him.
Honestly, I think it'd be interesting if Guilliman just declared the modern Imperium's bureaucracy beyond saving and founded another Imperium Secundus or something centered on Ultramar. You can keep my dad's bones - I'll keep his actual vision for humanity alive.
@@Scottoest Sounds great, I can imagine an event where Terra either falls or is destroyed, causing Gulliman to evacuate with the important people and the artifacts, and begins creating a mini empire in Ultramar which is more efficient and powerful. Meanwhile the other Primarchs just start coming back and set up their own space empire too 3
@@Scottoest The best option he could do while lessening the amount of frictions that Imperium's infrastructures and networks haven't got already, is to simply granting more autonomy, treaties and pacts between systems under Realm of Ultramar to other Imperium's worlds, streamlining world systems to be more efficient yet humane than to build dysfunctional manufactorum and hive cities, all while giving more leniency to the bureaucracy of Ultramar's political and financial systems to the nearest sectors, even at building more relations with factions that causes more benefits and lessening damages to Imperium, hence pacts and treaties are important to the inefficiency of Administrations of Imperial planets, like what's the point of pumping reliance to old tithe systems if self-sufficiency of a planet to an interstellar system can makes Imperium more habitable, amazes rivalling factions all while alluring more competing planets and systems to imitate the more positive aspects of Imperium Take it, these kind of constructive planning or even just advices will goes against the grimdarkness of the Settings, yet said settings have been going for 30 years and everytime it tries to rejuvenate itself, it's ended up falling short for worse, whether from left to right (pun intended) or even to simply Corporate structuring, policies and other real life stuffs beyond the lores of Warhammer franchises
Ultimately guilliman is the best possible leader humanity can have in 40k, all the strategic, logistical, and political prowess of the emperor but with at least a little bit of compassion and genuine humanity
my dream is to have Khan, Gorillaman, and Vulkan (and maybe by some miracle pre heresy horus) People usually forget how human those guys are (or where in case of horus) to the point where in a book horus rushed an entire battlefield to save a couple of civilians from a Ork assault. Or that time Khan made sure that a kid that was saved after some alien incursion got trained by his right hand and regurarly checked on him or anything (Besides that ONE AND ONLY time) that vulkan does or Gurlli man in general, hes a cool guy
@@toobig7150 well, if Lion manages to come back and harbor at Mac... whatever Guilliman's main domain is, Top G would hand his own military to Lion while he will deal with other businesses
@@sunder739 Methinks that's the plan. Hand control of military affairs over to El'Jonson, freeing Guilliman to focus on internal affairs, and the Imperium at large.
@@toobig7150vulkan is definitely the most likely primarch to come back now that the lion is back. I mean the dude is functionally invincible and can probably just be brought back under the excuse that he's just Vulkan.
It’s actually kind of heart breaking when you get little nuanced details about events in 30k. Guilliman feeling slightly guilty about humbling his brothers legion and wants to go hunt some orks with him so they can start to be brothers again only to be betrayed by lorgar. Gulliman must of felt disappointment from nearly all his brothers at least once when he was trying to do his best.
The gist of what I learned from this video: Rowboat Gorillaman is not particularly imaginative, but he is extremely adaptable and surprisingly grounded for what may as well be a demigod.
Guilliman goes with what works. And what works can become predictable if you keep doing it. His strength is that once it stops working he starts to get creative again rather than stubbornly sticking with his old strategies.
I mean you just need to look at the popularity of Captain America or Batman to understand a comparatively ordinary person when you compare him to his counterparts with nothing to go off but his own mind and moral convictions.
Head cannon: Ultramar is where the phrase "space marine" comes from. In Medieval French and Spanish dialects "ultramar" meant "beyond the sea". And was a name for the crusader kingdoms on the Levant. So in the High Gothic of the Imperium "ultramarine" could mean "people from Ultramar". With it contracted down to "marine" in Low Gothic. With the sons of Guiliman being so common the word marine came to refer to all members of the Adeptus Astartes.
My issue with this handcanon is that we know that "Space Marine" comes from the Emperor. Otherwise, this is a very good head canon and I'll be stealing it
@@Helis431 To be fair, naming was never the strong point of the Emperor, the imperium or most of 40k factions to begin with. They named their genetically engineered supersoldiers which are exclusively men after the name of the Semitic goddess of love, sex and war. Like the name only 25% correctly described them.
@@minhducnguyen9276 I hate to be that guy but I'm going to be that guy, the Astartes are named after Amar Astarte, a geneticist who worked for the Emperor during the unification wars and was instrumental in creating the Space Marines.
I like to imagine Guilliman was silently screaming inside every time he met one of the other primarchs and realized he was the most well adjusted of the bunch, as well as the only one who could really accept that sometimes things just go wrong and there's no one you can blame but yourself. Also, the way he's been handling being the only sane man in an empire of lunatics has made him very endearing and more than made up for any Ultramarine hate I might have. Seriously, he's been trying and (so far) succeeding in saving the Imperium from itself by himself for over a century now in lore, and that Herculean task makes him more than worthy of respect. Now I'm always going to have a soft spot for Vulkan and the Lion, but Guilliman is what humanity NEEDS in the setting. Now watch his character get bungled in a year or so because GW can't keep a good thing going for the life of them.
Imagine being Guilliman, and meeting Konrad or Angron for the first time LOL. "So we're gonna build a galactic empire with this team of red flags, eh dad?"
@@Scottoest Guilliman: "Can we at least get, I don't know, a therapist for some of them?" Emperor: "No." Guilliman: *defeated sigh* "Of course that's the answer."
Even with our considering the dangers of an entire legion going rogue, splitting them up into chapters improves their efficiency. There is a reason no one deploys special forces at any unit size much larger than a company.
It also accomplished exactly what it was meant to: ensure no one commander could ever turn traitor and threaten the Imperium at large. At worst, a Chapter Master leading those under him into treason could only muster so much force. The Badab War demonstrated this perfectly: even with a few chapters in his alliance, Huron could only do so much against the might of the Imperium.
I feel like he should have left a contingency in place similar to Dorn's Last Wall Protocol though. While breaking up the legions was certainly a good idea at the time and probably a good idea for the long run, there are massive threats like Black Crusades where a legion would be far superior in dealing with.
Another interesting point about breaking the legions isn't just about "preventing one man from having the power of a legion" but also Guilliman knew very well how much hatred and animosity there was throughout The Imperium for the Legions. After all the legions had been the cause of the heresy and its destruction. So he broke them down into chapters to placate The Imperium to ensure they wouldn't turn on him or his surviving brothers.
Guilliman is definitely one of the very few "good guys" in 40k. Also wasn't he the one who ordered the Ultramarines to destroy an Eldar craftworld or was that given on someone else's orders? Honest question. I heard about it recently and was curious.
No, he’s one of the few good guys with institutional power, the guard and even most space marine chapters are full of good guys who are disallowed from being good by iron handed bureaucrats and malicious inquisitors
My favorite thing with the Primarchs is that most problems would of be solved if they had actual parents. Guilliman is one of the most like well rouned emotionaly strong primarchs. Go figure good parenting works even on demigods
In regard to Monarchia, Guilliman actually DID go against Big E. Big E wanted it wiped out as soon as the Ultramarines were in orbital firing range. Guilliman waited an entire week, informed the citizens that they needed to evacuate or die, AND allowed them to call out to Lorgar. Granted, I think that last thing was a mistake all things considered since maybe letting your brother see his favorite city on his favorite world be utterly nuked out of existence before having a chance to talk to him about it probably wouldn't let negotiations proceed well...which is actually kind of funny since Robute is SUPPOSED to be the negotiator XD
Now that the Lion is back, I truly hope Dorn is next because there’s gonna be a meeting and they are gonna have to talk to him about his Successors. “Theywent on a WHAT Crusade? There’s how many of them? The Crimson Fists sound cool. They nuked WHAT accidentally? Soul Drinkers. Their chapter master is a WHAT?” Also this video? Sir. This video. A full Citizen Kane clap for you.
I don’t need to see the video to know that the reason why pancreas is truly saying that guilliman is the best is because of yvraine and his Eldar obsession.
Ah, yes, Guilliman. Can never get too far away from him in any lore discussion. What’s amusing about Guilliman is that insofar as people love grim dark, Guilliman doesn’t quite fit it. No one misconstrues what is going to happen when Angron shows up on a planet with a band of screaming World Eaters, or Logan Grimnar ends up anywhere near an Inquisitor. We intuitively expect characters to be murder hobos, big battles, much dying. And there are grudges from thousands of years ago, or undead killing machines, or simply getting murdered for no real reason at all. That’s what we expect from 40k. But none of that is really Guilliman. Sure, he’s a Primarch, so he will kill with astounding ability, but Guilliman is not spoken of as a warrior like say, Sanguinius, Fulgrim, or even Corax. He isn’t on some grudge match like a Leman Russ or Corax, he isn’t on some secret mission or on some incomprehensible goal, his legion is almost boringly vanilla. Guilliman is basically a boring character as 40k characters go. Yet it is exactly this that makes Guilliman interesting to people. Guilliman would fit in to the real world where no other Primarch would, aside from his size and whatnot. He is as close to a normal human in reality than most 40k humans, to say nothing of primarchs. He is as civilized as they come. It’s just weird.
I like it. Humanity doesn’t need an inhuman demigod right now, it needs a _flawed_ one. Someone who isn’t above going down to one knee to speak with someone eye to eye. Someone who can collate and then make the big decisions, then move on. Someone _like_ the Emperor. _Like_ him. His humanity, ironically, makes him far better suited to rulership than the actual ruler of the Imperium. He doesn’t give a shit about the long view when it comes to the Imperium, in the “is it on fire? WELL PUT IT OUT!” Sense. Now to avoid heresy, I will clarify that without the Emperor, humanity would die off in weeks, so He’s still _very_ important. He’s just…not human enough. Sounds contradictory I know, but we’ve seen how “active” gods can run their empires into the ground.
@@Kirisame312 most likely just a couple of craftworlds would be genuinely open to that sort of alliance without major ulterior and undermining motives *cough cough* Ulthwe...
Like the man said in the vid, you need someone to be normal, to be the standard. For better or worse, the Ultramarines are essentially the only thing that kept the loyalist Imperium together.
I mean tbf to Guilliman a lot of those negative things weren’t really things he wanted to do, like pretty sure the 2nd and 11th legion thing was get them to join your legion or they end up like the thunder warriors. Hell them not getting killed immediately is probably because of pretty impressive diplomacy by Guilliman.
We know that Malcador himself literally said that he and Emperor knew that all those Astartes were too valuable of a resource to waste. Personally I doubt Roboute had anything to do with it but I would agree that he would have made that argument, and successfully, if it came to it.
@@nurglerider781I thought there was a short story where Malcador specifically says Dorn and Guilliman argued for the legions of the 2nd and 11th to be spared.
@@mcnuggets2825 Hmm, that could be. I obviously haven't read everything. I was making my assumption based off the statements Malcador said to someone but it's been long enough it could have been that very conversation and I just don't remember that part.
@@nurglerider781 Definitely wouldn't disagree with Malcador probably being involved, almost put in that comment that it was out of character for everyone else in power besides Malcador, The Chamber at the End of Memory is the short story with Dorn and Malcador talking about it. Honestly always kind of felt like Malcador and Guilliman had basically the same character/ideals beyond Malcador being a lot more cynical, they are a lot more similar than any of the other brothers with each other or Big E imo. Which makes the fact Malcador doesn't seem to really like/trust him even funnier.
Something to consider with the breaking of the Legions- A Legion-sized force is great when on the offense, it allows for the focusing of power and the logistics support in a military situation. You don't have to supply many little groups burning through supplies in offensive engagements. Post-Heresy, the Imperium was no longer offensive. It was defensive- Recovering from a loss of half their effective military power and great internal damage. The founding of Chapters spread Astartes support out in a way that permitted them to respond to effective brush fires that mustered up in that time- The Traitor Legions were about but they weren't concentrated. There was no enemy of great power at that time- A Legion would've been a waste of power and presence, especially since they'd need time to zip from engagement to engagement. The Chapter-standard is actually a brillliant way of, for a lack of a better term, de-offensive-izing, the Astartes into a supportive force.
Guillimen is my second favorite loyalist primarch (the Khan beats it out imo just because i find him more fun) and is tied with Perterabo as my second favorite overall primarch, it's nice to have someone in 40k who both understands the value and importance of diplomacy and logistics.
my favourite is Perturabo because i think he's the ideal blend of sympathetic and unsympathetic, on the one hand it is sad what happened to him, but on the other hand he really does bring most of it on himself, he's like the Arnold Rimmer of the 40k universe
Ultramarines aren't my favorite legion, but Guilliman is my favorite primarch. He's just the most sensible person actually trying to fix stuff and isn't arrogant or petty like the rest of them. The only ones even in the same tier as him were Sanguinius, Vulkan, and pre-heresy Horus. Ferrus, Corax, Khan, and Dorn were all good primarchs as well in a tier right beolow. Lion, Russ, and Fulgrim were up their own asses about being "special" and don't even get me started on the traitors. Angron, Mortarion, Curze, and Lorgar were morons with emotional trauma. Perturabo was the best of the traitors and was one hug or "good job son" away from being a good guy. Magnus did a lot of dumb stuff, but he got shafted hard by the Emperor. Alpharius/Omegon is a meme so I won't comment on them.
I feel like it should be noted; when Guilliman woke up, he had the Emperor’s flaming sword as a weapon (probably obtained by Caul, because this is Caul we’re talking about). This sword has the power to obliterate souls, and by all accounts permakill demons. Add on his new armor that more or less restored him to perfect clarity and physical health? I’d say the Big Blue Gorillaman waking up would indeed be a terrifying sight. Mainly for Chaos, due to the soul-obliterating sword in his hand.
When Guilliman first awoke he did not have the Emperor's sword. All he had was the Hand of Dominion which he had when he went into stasis. He got the Emperor's sword from the Emperor after he fought Magnus on Luna during the Battle of the Lions gate.
My favourite Primarchs have always been the ones who care about humanity. Guilliman is just that person. The only one who comes close is Vulcan but even then he just left. Guilliman stayed and kept going.
Pretty based take. Remember, the most important thing to winning wars is logistics, logistics, logistics, which is something smurfchad excels at. Also, Ultramarines have the best aesthetic of all space marines, fight me.
I prefer my Salamanders’ aesthetics (HH Pyroclasts are just baller) but man I really do like ultramarines accessories like the wingface masks and the laurels. It’s all just neat
Guillimom: "Robby my boy for the last time, you're not a demi-god being, come down from the stars. Don't let your father hear about this please. You'll grow out of it, you'll see...." Roboute: "No, you don't understand! It's not just a phase moooom!!"
YES!!!!!!! I’ve finally found another Guilliman enjoyer!!!! He’s my favorite character and primarch!!!! I genuinely love how intelligent he is and how much he just cares for the imperium. I’m currently reading the godblight novel, and his talks about his brothers and the imperium are genuinely heartbreaking. He truly misses mortarion and angron and all the others and wants what’s best for the human race. He loves his sons and is trying his best to reverse the effects the Horus Heresy had on the galaxy
Guilliman is pretty great, but my favorite is Jaghatai Khan. He has so many great moments, like when he makes the orcs run by singlehandedly cutting them like a demon wind, his discussion with Malcador, his meeting with Sanguinius, how he roasted Fulgrim's dueling prowess, his declaration of war on the daemons as he tore the heart of a keeper of secrets and his determination to save lives during the Siege of Terra, even at cost of his own. He created a multicultural legion through diplomacy and sensibly integrated psychers into everyday life, feats not even the Emperor could achieve. He also had the rarest, most OP power in all 40k: common sense. Guilliman was the better empire builder, but the Khan's measured approach and strong principles just make him incredibly memorable.
Another endearing point about Jaghatai is that he would be fine with living a simple life. He doesn't really have ambitions of empire building like Guilliman or obsessive warrior spirit like Dorn, Russ, or the Lion. After he conquered the dominant culture on Chogoris and freed his tribe(s) from their cruelty and oppression, he simply dismantled his newfound empire and lived a basic nomadic existence until the coming of the Emperor called him to action. Very chill dude. Plays Go well. First Captain Qin Xa never beat him at it (or anyone else for that matter).
And every interaction of him and Magnus his fave bro. Him asking how to restore him with such sincerety touched that shard of Magnus. If there is a chance of redemption for daemon primarchs that redemption will come in the form of guilliman , jaghatai and russ for Magnus I believe. I hope at least.
Guilliman may not be a flashiest, the strongest, nor the most personable primarch, but he has mastered the most inportant skill to have when waging war in such a large setting: LOGISTICS. He is the best because his primarch superpower is Microsoft Excel
Guilliman is literally just Caesar appearance wise, but I’ll stick space Beowulf and his boys for aesthetics only, but lore wise gotta be Black Templars, still Guillaman if he is paired with Lion El Johnson or Dorn to run the military while he handles the government could reboot the empire to pre heresy days in the lore I hope
You know, this is still my favorite video from you, and I am never bothered to see it show up in my feed even though I've already watched it a few times. Good stuff.
Guilliman's #1 superpower: He's able to not only admit his mistakes, but also learn from them. That and his god-tier organizational and accounting skills make him the greatest primarch.
Just started watching, but I can't wait for the Lion to come back. I really hope he and Papa smurf fight. I forget the full quote, but it's something along the line of "Robot guilty spark is either a traitor or a fool. No one should replace the emperor, and I'll give my whole legion to make that happen."
He did allow imperium secundus to be a thing for a while though.. remember that it consisted of him, roboute and sanguinius ruling over a chunk of space..
@@lavatun for what I understand, it was due to the uncertainty of the situation. They were in a position were the death of the Emperor was a possibility, and needed to act accordingly.
I remember being hated every time I expressed the minimum compassion or appreciation for his character and his legion. Like you, I love the Ultramarines and to me, they are by far the best chapter with the best Primarch. I cringe so much when I still see in 2024, people hating on him and calling him Rowboate Girlyman...seriously, how cringe can one be? Especially towards the one who kept the whole Imperium together and was mature and honest enough to consistently keep it together and even admit to his own failures. A true icon and role model for any Astartes and human to strive for.
One reason I've become fond of him are his flaws, especially the ones he has no idea about. Example, during the plague wars he was constantly wanting to find his nurgly brother and fight him, convinced that he would be able to defeat him. He conveniently forgot that he lost almost all fights with his brothers before they turned into demon princes (Magnus was handing him his arse before the no fun police showed up, snake boy literally put him in time out for 10k, etc). The fact that he hasn't realized that being a great all round hero means that he has some serious flaws in his swordplay makes me giggle.
I think it’s funny that the primarch who probably understands the emperor the most deifies him the least is the one who is most like him. Guilliman and the Emperor love order, obedience, planning ahead, etc. They differ in the fact that Guilliman is not as powerful and thus knows when he is wrong and knows how to admit that. The emperor was a guy who was right and flawless his literal entire life to the point that he had a plan for complete human conquest of the entire galaxy. The plan was as close to flawless as you could get with one small flaw. He underestimated chaos and the overestimated his sons were. He didn’t realize they were not perfect and above all he didn’t realize that even he wasn’t perfect. He made a mistake and that cost him everything. If he told his sons about the pleasures and the pain of chaos then there may not have been a Horus heresy. He could still be alive. Yet, one misstep and the entire plan fell apart. A plan so perfect that if anything went wrong it would be destroyed. Guilliman is like Big E in many ways except better. Not because he is stronger, smarter, or better looking. He is better because he is not perfect and has never been perfect. I like to think the emperor was frozen when he saw Horus kill sanguinius not because he loved Horus or sanguinius. But because he realized that he made a mistake and that mistake cost him his everything. That for a moment he doubted his own existence and plans for the future for humanity. That if he trusted the people around him more maybe things would have gone better. That may be giving Emps and GW too much credit but still it’s a nice thought. I completely agree that Guilliman is at least top three if not the best primarch.
I'd say best depends on your criteria. (Sanguinius was probably the best of the Primarchs, but ya know...he dead.) Though I think most can agree that if any Primarch can save the Imperium, it's Guilliman.
Well Sanguinnius was the best warrior. But i would say he was a mid general and his admin skills weren't great. He was also sort of unstable and hard to predict, which is great for fucking with the enemy, but it harms his allies too. Remember, he very nearly fell to Chaos. Chaos Sanguinnius would be Satan incarnate.
@@bloodangel19 Even the lore itself states Sanguinius was the best among them. (Though I think it's referring to best as a person.) Even Guilliman recognized that, that's why he made Sanguinius the "Emperor" of Secundus.
@@Rawnblade13 well yeah i guess best as a person yes. But a perfect primarch does not exist, they were all built with a clear goal in mind and there is no do all solve all primarch. Had Sanguinnius returned instead of Guilliman i doubt he would have saved the imperium.
@@bloodangel19 I think Horus was the superior strategist and statesmen, I believe the Ultramarines conquered more worlds than any legion aside from the Luna wolves. Horus was obviously insecure which lead to his downfall but I believe he was the “best” primarch before he fell
As a World Eaters simp I simply have to say basically all the bad things that happen to Angron aren't his fault. 90% are directly or indirectly caused by other people.
He's the only traitor primarch other than maybe magnus, that's actually sympathetic. I was going to count lorgar and mortarian but lorgar started the heresy essentially and mortarian became nurgle's occasional fleshlight incase Isha isn't satisfactory enough. I know typhus caused morty to fall to chaos but it doesn't make any less pathetic. Angron is basically that zombie dinosaur from primal's plague of madness episode. He didn't ask to be a ruthless monster but he became one due to bad luck but he still needs to be put down in order to prevent further destruction. His tragedy also made he dislike lorgar, the big E and the Eldar.
It's his fault for being weak enough to constantly be victim to circumstance. The Emperor probably botched him by making him an empath though, he was never willing to use his strength to preserve himself and as such ended up with the nails in his head. If Lion can grow up on a literal chaos-beast infested forest as an infant and survive, I don't want to hear a sob story about Angron being shackled by a pre-modern civilization lmao
@@KevinJohnson-cv2no There is a big difference between having to fight the occasion chaos monster and having to fight all the armies of a world with technology roughly equivalent to the Imperium.
Angron I find especially tragic because for all his power and trying, so much of the agency he had in life was basically suppressed, including by his own father. That doesn’t excuse his own atrocities, but his anguish and rage is completely understandable and tragic. It’d make sense that at the end he’d turn into a Daemon of pure bloodlust and rage.
@@jonathanathor117 I’d argue Lorgar should be up there, because while I think he wrong about Chaos…he was right about the Emperor being a god of mankind. Because, despite the Emperor’s protests and declarations otherwise, he was de facto a living and immortal god. One who likely inspired many of early mankind’s religions. Not only that, Lorgar converted how many of the human worlds peacefully and prosperously through essentially missionary work? Then the Emperor went and killed a bunch of people because he hated that Lorgar was doing that. Which basically broke Lorgar and influenced him to turn to the powers that the Emperor wanted to get rid of? I still hold the Emperor would’ve been better off and more honest about embracing his godhood.
Runglethorp Gargonolli
Gullible Retard
hydrogen baby vs coughing bomb who wins
Ringledingy Goodoo (idk I just made it up, I'm high, sorry y'all)
Rogal Dorn. No wait.
Rowboat girlyman
Turns out the easiest way to make an effective primarch is a stable childhood.
Who'd have thought?
yeah... not that the emperor would have been great but... thanks mom
Also applies to normal humans for the most part
@@CorvoThanUrdu approves.
Emps to Angron: “best I can do is Hot Dust”
I think it's first impression and how to spend time with them, which the Emperor who can foresee the future failed to do. (He must pick the safest option)
i mean, after the first chaos marine kill you have access to free weapons, i feel like him still fighting the rest bare handed speaks to his management skills
Nah the weapons were inferior to his fists.
Well the weapons would be kind of useless to him. I mean his hand is likely bigger than the head of a regular space marine, so his grip would be clumsy making his blows weak and slow. He is way better off going Mike Tyson on them.
When “I am the manager” becomes lethal.
@@bloodangel19 chaos forces mostly seem to use the chain axe, which has a really long, thick handle which would totally fit in his hand
@@crazyscotsman9327 now hold on a second there is ONE effective weapon you can pull from a chaos marine, his own whole ass body makes a PERFECT projectile.
This makes me wish there would be more interaction with even the biggest humble and nicest primarch ever, Vulkan.
Love the age of mythology music in the background c:
Rowboat really made a turn around to becoming one of the best characters
So on the tabletop he's basically the Star Running Back
You know what is even worse than Plot Armor ?
Plot armor as Deus Ex Machinas out of nowhere.
Demons being able to res is kinda the point of demons.
If Big E. is able to resurrect you if he feels like it, then not only is he befitting the title of a God but I would say there is no point getting corrupted by Chaos if worshipping Big E gets you the same benefits without drawbacks
Thanks!
The fact he didn't love the emperor makes that scene in Forgotten Empire even sadder to me. He didn't consider the emperor his father he still saw his fellow primarchs as his brothers. As seen with the table and seats.
The best Primarch have proper good parenting...
That says a lot.😅
Liked the vid honestly,but I’m curious about how you’d do a vid on big E,and while I do understand why people would give him a lot of shit. Not many talk about his virtues,instead of just skimming over them in terms of lore. And it’s honestly somewhat tiring,he’s protected earth and basically reconquered the galaxy,so I’d be very interested to see a deeper look in the lore. As said before I love the vid.
The fact that Robute is basically Roman Karl Franz in space also helps in that fact
Tarasha: Open wide Bobby, here comes the airplane!
Lil' Roboute: Ridiculous mother, my mashed peas do not possess the necessary velocity for atmospheric flight
That's DORN who does that.
@@discountplaguedoctor88to be fair, girly man also has a pretty big stick up his own ass. Nothing compared to the mighty oak of Rogal Dorn, but quite the log.
@@discountplaguedoctor88 hear hear
Bob would be that kid who even after growing up still lets his mum treat him like a kid because it makes her happy
That's Rogal Dorn you heretic!
"Giving Guilliman any amount of time to breath and form a strategy means you've already lost the battle" I love that line.
Breathe.
@@ShortArmOfGod shut up guilliman you fucking nerd
if i ever had to meet guilliman on the strategic field the absolute prime directives would be continuous decapitation strikes and never lose the initiative
Not like Guilliman isnt a huge Primarch that can crush a Space Marine's head with his pinky
@@PeachDragon_You’d still be dead within an hour. It doesn’t matter how thorough you are when concocting your strategy; Guilliman is a primarch, and as such can adapt like no other. He’d probably see what you’re doing, pull back his forces and order a strategic bombardment on your position.
I think Bricky summed it up Guilliman perfectly:
"What made Roboute boring during the Horus Heresy, is what makes him so compelling now."
i like the people who are more than just fighters, thinkers are good in their own right
in modern 40k. a character who is a bit of a boyscout, who wants to do good and to make peace. is increadibly subversive and unique
What made him boring?
@@WaallyOne im reading the HH books rn and with some exceptions (Battle of Calth and Brtrayer give us a more raging Guilliman. Still analytical but more focused on cracking skulls, even fighting Angron hand to hand and even stalling him) Guilliman is simple. Now, thats not bad, but he doesnt really stick out. He is a boy scout as someone said here.
Now in 40K? Its tragic. He wants to do better, *to be better* but he cant or the Imperium will crumble. The 30K Imperium was still kind of a hellhole but at least it was a hellhole that wanted better. Fuck, they even tried to be allies witj some xeno species (funny enough one of those species was the Laer, Fulgrim decided to kill them but those werent his original orders) but 40K Imperium? They will gladly tear each others' throats because of suspected heresy.
And Guilliman hates it. He hates it all, he simply wants to be a farmer yet he is forced to keep fighting even when he literally died and was brought back
ah, much like my early life, boring, and stable when 17. now thats a good thing when im 50
‘We are all our father’s sons,’ he said.
‘You are all facets of the Emperor,’ Kor Phaeron amended. ‘You are aspects pulled from a genetic primer. The Lion is your father’s rationality - his analytical skill - unburdened by conscience. Magnus is his psychic potential and eager mind, unrestrained by patience. Russ is his ferocity, untempered by reason. Even Horus...’
‘Go on,’ Lorgar said, looking up now. ‘What of Horus?’
‘The Emperor’s ambition, unshaped by humility. Think of all the worlds where our Legion waged war alongside the Luna Wolves. You’ve seen it as well as I have. Horus hides his arrogance, but it is there - a layer beneath his skin, a shroud around his soul. Pride beats through his body like blood.’
‘And Guilliman?’ Lorgar let his hands rest on his knees again. A smile inched across his features.
‘Guilliman.’ Kor Phaeron’s narrow lips moulded into a grimace, opposing his primarch’s smirk. ‘Guilliman is your father’s echo, heart and soul. If all else went wrong, he would be heir to the empire. Horus is the brightest star and you carry your father’s face, but Guilliman’s heart and soul are cast in the Emperor’s image.’
Awesome.
What aspect would Lorgar be?
@@cal593 The child-touching aspect.
@@josephthio3513 what, just because he's like a priest? That's offensive!
It does make a lot of sense, though...
@@cal593it's right there in the quote. Lorgar is the Emperor's face. His passion. His oratory skill and ability to BELIEVE. Lorgar is the Emperor's Faith.
Favorite Guilliman moment personally is when he couldn't look Dante in the eye because he was wearing Sanguinius' death mask as a helmet. Robutes so fucked up by not being on terra in time to save his brother he cant even make eye contact with a blood angel wearing a mask that looks like him.
Everyone loves Sanguinius, it's just that Gman is more devastated than ever because Dante is a reminder of Golden Good Angel Boy is the better primach love by all who sacrifice his life so that even in the bleak future at the least sangy made the best effort to deviate the coming dark future. Sangy is a very tragic character
Probably felt a bit ashamed as well seeing how Dante was forced into running the Blood Angels before and after Reebot got boozled
poor lad never had a weekend
He failed to help Sanguinus and almost failed to save his sons. if only he could reach Terra sooner, if only.
AS. HE. SHOULD.
@@stalinsoulz7872 😂 don’t call him sangy that’s the screen name of a zoosadist and chomo
I feel like the Horus Heresy is all one big story about why growing up in a two-parent household is important.
Sanguinius and Vulkan are also proof of that.
Or just be a decent dad to your kids
Lol.
Or even just one parent. Big E never really was one.
Yes. It really goes to show that having 2 parents is really the best plan overall. Having a decent dad is important too
Some notable things I kinda remember:
1: Guilliman got so angry when shot into space (and the betrayal) it was legit DOOM.
2: Guilliman tore through a window through space and time to save his Mom
3: When he woke up, all the fighting legit stopped and they all stared in awe at him getting up. Before one Khorne berserker tried to kill him, but well that berserker got whacked.
That number 2 is something.
This dude has his priorities right.
@@yawarapuyurak3271 yeah, I can't remember what happened exactly. But it had something to do with I think some ancient teleporter or something
@@iang257 In 'Unremembered Empire', where the Pharos beacon was first activated: Guilliman, The Lion, and Barbarus Dantioch (Iron Warriors Loyalist) found out you can use the beacon through intent. Dantioch saved Guilliman, The Lion pulled Guilliman back to Maccrage, and Guilliman pulled his mom from harms way.
Honestly shout out to that khorne Berserker, wish I had half of his level of self confidence
@@xemnufromthemagicplanet1678 I think he figured, either I get a Primarch kill if I win (instant demonprince status) or I get taken out by goddamn Guilliman in personal combat. (Instant bragging rights.) Win/Win. Plus, if your a Khornate, can you really say no to a chance at fighting that man?
First million view video?
NONSTOP ULTRADUBS BABY LETS GO, COURAGE AND HONOR NO ONE ELSE WILL EVER BE AN ULTRAMARINE
COURAGE AND HONOR
COURAGE AND HONOR
COURAGE AND HONOR
COURAGE AND HONOR
COURAGE AND HONOR
Gulliman is also very good at improvising. When he was ambushed by 10 alpha legion space marines and was unarmed, he had to fight his way to safety like Jackie Chan. He threw his table, ink pot, paperweight and whatever he got in his hand to buy time to steal a weapon from them.
And at learning.
The Alpha legionaire who was hiding behind the wall for a surprise attack decided to abort the mission and returned to give his report: "I saw him kill three Astartes with a pencil. A fecking pencil!" Truly a tale of two enemies coming together to face a common threat...
@@ProcyonDei a foqin quill! :P
Now im thinking of Jackie Chan if he was a Primarch.. my god lol
Well, but he missed the best idea: "Idiots, i am Alpharius".
I hate to give Kor Phaeron any respect, but taking a punch from a Primarch and living to tell the tale is pretty impressive, especially for a man his age.
If I remember right Kor Phaeron wasn’t even a proper space marines
Life alert is going strong in 30k
@@TheXenomorphwarrior I can almost hear it now. "Hello, Life Alert? Yeah, it's Kor Phaeron again. What? No, it was Guilliman this time. Learn my lesson?!? Listen here son, back in my day . . ."
I'm looking forward to GW releasing and reviving Lion El'Johnson and how he will compare to big daddy G on the tabletop and how they will advance his story in the 41st Millenium.
I'm reading the second book in the Dawn of Fire series and Kor Phaeron legit told Kar-Gatharr "I fought him, he ain't shit" with a straight face.
Gulliman is the middle child of the primarchs
he’s mentally, emotionally stable and proved to be reliable general so nobody payed that much attention he had the freedom to pretty much do what he wanted and no one seems to question that ultramar was his own personal empire in the imperium.
The value of a loyal client state can not be fully stated.
Typically the middle child is the ignored,bland and uncharacteristic child. They're usually the ones doing anything they can to get attention and love from the eldest or youngest child.
@@justing.3541Its more like the middle child gets used to not getting the babying or privileges so they just grow up rational and eager to show their worth
@@Zarzar22 Fair enough. If you need to view it that way more power to ya lol
No I think he's just the only grown up.
"A cyber cherub clattered in a clumsy search pattern around the scriptorium on metal wings. Such things were grotesque, techno-alchemy far removed from the purer machinery of his day. The madness of Mars had infected everything;
The cherub’s emerald eyes flashed at each word. The sensibilities of this age did not appeal to Guilliman. Hateful art for a hateful time;
The primarch watched it go back to its roost with critical eyes. The wings were more than adornment; from the sound of it, there was not enough lift in the gravity impeller to keep it aloft. The machines of this millennium were crude. The engineers among his brothers would probably have caught the thing in a net and rebuilt the motor; he was close to doing so himself. Either that, or tossing it out of an airlock into the void and replacing it with something less ghoulish."
- Big Bobby G, reviewing a Cherub in Dark Imperium
“Imperials are so ducking nasty. I swear to the Gods.”
-Magnus the Red on Cherubs.
Superhuman by human standards but human by Primarch standards. Roboute is the ultimate example of nurture beating nature. Gifted people crash hard when they start losing.
Thanks for agreeing, brothers ❤
If Robust Girlyman was in charge of the imperium when they first discovered the Tau there would be no Tau empire. Paperwork doesnt just get lost in Bobby G's imperium
^underrated comment
Gullimen might take a L or two but the war and crusade will be won in the end and he’s always getting stronger and better he can be hated but respected is a must for this Primarch “strategy is for amateurs Logistics are for Professionals”
That and bureaucracy and government overview
Personal hope: Imperium fractures, with a stronger part under Roboute reconsolidating as a new Imperium, and a section becoming a massive space for Tau expansion.
Girlyman and his daughters
@@clickpause8732 heresy *BLAM*
Now if only he didn't have plot armor 110% of the time he might be liked more by the community
Guillliman to me is the greatest primarch because he focuses on the things that having a genius demi-god in control could genuinely be a massive force multiplier for - logistics, strategy and administration. You can be the best fighter or battlefield tactician in the history of the universe, but you're still ultimately one dude on one battlefield. Guilliman can manage an entire crusade to both take back Imperial worlds while simultaneously distributing Primaris reinforcements to depleted chapters all over the galaxy.
Even people who aren't big Rowboat fans generally concede that if any primarch can "save" the Imperium, it'll be him - and that's precisely BECAUSE people recognize how massively important his skills are.
Honestly, current lore Guillliman's only real fault is his over-estimation of his own combat skills, as he had to get bailed out twice by Big E against daemon Mortarion or he'd have died. Current Guilliman is acutely aware of his own fallibility and mistakes, has no lust for power, and sets aside his issues with his father because he genuinely cares about humanity. He fights for a future for humanity AFTER war, and not just to smite the Imperium's enemies for it's own sake.
I don't think he overestimates his fighting prowess necessarily.. I think it's coz he thinks "fuck it, no one else can do it so I might as well try" out of guilt for having failed the imperium..
Fighting for a future for humanity AFTER war proves he's the Emperor's son. It was never about the conquest. It was about what came next.
Who would've guessed that the best superpower was Excel Premium.
@@yawarapuyurak3271 in the Grimdarkness of the 41th millennium, one man is about to unleash mankind's most power weapon....
*G-man sits at his desk and loads up MS Office*
@@lavatun I think that’s definitely part of it but there have been some glaring moments where he tried to clutch a 1v1 he had no business being in.
Case in point, the time Fulgrim damn near put him in a backwood because Rowboat lowkey tried to hinge an engagement on his ability to hold off Fulgrim for long enough that his forces could win. We know how that ended.
Then there was the more recent times rowboat tried to fight Mortarion and got dunked on so hard the emperor himself had to hit an uno reverse to clutch up the fight.
Guilleman doesn’t do it incredibly often, but he’s definitely made some tactical mistakes and tried to box mfs he should have just bombed instead
During the Siege of Terra, it’s noted that Horus and his legions needed to move through Sol quickly, since Guilliman was behind them and had the might to crush them. The fact that Horus, who at this point was stronger than Sanguineous was not just uncertain but afraid of Guilliman says a lot about the Ultramarines power.
He wasn't stronger than Sanggy, The Golden boi fought for how long straight while Horus was chilling his male pattern baldness up in his ship. If Sanggys fresh than he's thrashing Horus.
@@higharchbishopofteatasting6217 normal Horus yes, Warp Juice Horus was beating the fucking emperor.
He was scared because of the overwhelming numbers of the space marines from the ultramarines chapter. Remember at this point in 30k Guilliman basically had his own little empire and tens of thousands of astartes under his command. Horus was more afraid of the ultramarines coming down and just simply overwhelming the traitor legions with not only superior ultramarine tactics but also their insane numerical number. If I remember correctctly the ultramarines had over 100k standing Marines which is crazy to think about.
Shoutout to the Khorne Berzerker who,upon seeing a literal Primarch being revived in front of him, proceeded to scream, lunge forward, and take a swing at Bobby G. It did not end well.
Brave and dumb
Guillliman is the most tragic charecter in the setting because he gives you hope it could be better
Well said 👏🧐
As fan of Guilliman I need to say no. The most tragic is without doubt Angron. He was supposed to be second Vulkan, instead he was enslaved, debrained(half of his brain was replaced by Butcher's Nails) forced to kill a men he saw as father, denied his final stand with people he cared, slowly dying and going more and more mad with time, and when he was about to die and find peace, Lorgar betrayed him and turned into demon
@@macshadow1150 53 likest atm, so 53 people that missed the point completely. It's not that Guilliman's backstory is tragic in any way - and certainly not compared to Angron. It's that he is the competend good guy in power, so you almost think or hope that he will win and save the empireum and everything will be nice. Until you remember it is 40k and, just like the fantasy settings, chances are chaos will win in the end. Which makes all the tragedies suffered in the mean time looks even worse, including Angron.
@@Origami84 A bit offtopic, many people dont understand that if Angron did not had the nails, he would have died the day the Emperor found him, he would have died trying to kill the Emperor as he saw him as another slaver, without being broken by the Nails, his noble side would have lived on. For context this is described in "Betrayer" by ADB, while there is a flash back to the Night of the Wolf.
In the myth of Pandora's Box, the vessel contained all the sorrows and calamities that the gods would inflict upon humanity, but it also contained Hope. It is unclear if this was meant as a salve to soothe humanity's suffering or a final twist of the knife to heighten it.
The thing i love most about Guilliman is his belief that so much of the Imperiums "virtuous suffering" is unnecessary and counter-productive in giving people no reason not to turn to chaos.
"The way to stop piracy is not to implement anti-piracy software; it's to give people better service than the pirates."
-Gabe Newell, founder of Steam
@@ladywaffle2210Pretty much what he said to Dante after devastation of Baal.
But that also mirrors the worst thing about Guilliman. Yes, he says the Imperium is bad. But the Imperium was also created largely by HIS ideals. And for all his criticisms of the High Lords of Terra and the Cult Imperialis, they managed to hold the Imperium together for 10,000 years with no Emperor and no superhero primarchs, while his version of it didn't even last 300 years; the time from the Treaty of Mars to the Horus Heresy was not much longer than the time between now and the founding of the United States.
Roboute even states as much when talking to Dante. Such a great back n forth btw if you havent had a chance to hear or read it
I didn't know yvraine ran this channel given how much you love those blueberries
Blueberries are tasty. They make great ice cream.
@@jonathanathor117 quote from yvraine
Blue coom
@@dukedevlan5457 💀💀💀💀
I just love the fact that GW created a Primarch (of all things) around logistics. One of the pillars of warfare and society.
But when you consider how emotionally and intellectually mature the man is -- especially considering the traumas he's been through -- it creates a multi layered character. Which is something I like.
Him joking that a piece of paper was his greatest enemy was a pretty cool moment for him, not gonna lie lol
I’d say jagadahai khan is the greatest for loyalists as he was just a well of complexity mixed with the the greatest roasts of all primarchs. “Fight for a father I never loved against a brother I did. Fight for an army that never wanted me against an army that’d have me in a heart beat” is his best quote along with his heart touching wish for magnus to tell him how to fix him.
Of course then he just fucked off into the webway for thousands of years for no good reason while humanity went to shit. At least Rowboat Boogerman was and is still doing what he can to improve humanity's lot.
I would argue there *are* no greatest loyalists as they all have alot of issues, just like the traitors but instead of acknowledging them they just take the "moral high ground"
However, Jaghatai is as close as we could probably get. He is pretty selfless, doesn't give into the haughty nature of his brothers and is self aware enough to know he *might* have joined Horus. He knows he isn't a great person, he knows people don't necessarily care for his personality and he was onto Emps from the moment he got to Terra.
Jaghatai is the best Loyalist we got, too bad he is in the Webway
I like to think the Khan has the potential to understand all the other primarchs almost perfectly, his nature is like a strong gale force wind or a lighting bolt, he will suddenly strike and reveal all your weaknesses while you have no real way of being prepared for him. Hes more of a force of nature given the form of a man which is why he is so mercurial and reserved.
I feel like the Khan could have been a primarch like Guilliman or like Magnus if he gave a shit about the things they cared about
@@Scottoest ya but that seems more on the writing department for loyalist marines than anything. It was more outta character.
@@Scottoest He also didn't waste time trying to start a Second Imperium and may have inadvertently given time to Chaos to wound the Emperor and kill Sanguinius.
Rollback Gorliiamap being the first to come back may seem like more GW favoring the Ultramarines, but him waking up and seeing the emperium in shambles and consequences of his codex is just perfect. It was so bad he once consider just running away and being an agri-farmer. Not to mention his fight with Motarian got him a full blast of Empgod's psych might, which made him cry. PAPA SMURF AINT HAVING A GOOOD TIME
Guilliman and Dante: MOOD KINDRED!
I want the Word Bearers to return to the setting.
Just wanted to mention he never thought about bailing after reviving he knew shit was too bad for him to leave. He daydreamed of becoming an agri farmer back during the heresy.
@@mcnuggets2825
Oh right! Thanks for clearing that up
I’m not sure if you’re arguing against Guilliman being awesome here. But the fact that he recognizes his mistakes and doesn’t give up in light of everything you just mentioned is exactly what makes the modern depictions of Guilliman so awesome.
This makes me want to break my vow and make an ultramarine army for both how interesting Guilliman really seems to be and to piss off space marine fanboys.
Hi dad
As someone with an ultramarine army there really fun to paint mostly because blu is my favorite color
Me, doing my best Palpatine impression: Do it!
Same here
My brother just buried his Space Marine army, and he's lived through the Matt Ward era
Cue me, who's coming to the hobby late, after Indomitus, and both because I like Bobby G and I want to see the cringe on his face, I'm painting Ultramarines together with Necrons.
Gulliman's depression at seeing the modern imperium is also fascinanting, so many moments where he sees things from the current Imperium and just goes what the fuck. Also his moments with Dante are solid to read just two depressed leaders having a moment of respect and him basically giving his one of Sanguinis's best sons command of essentially half the Imperium, which is nice considering he felt that the Angel would be a better emperor than he would be (even making him emperor of imperial secundus) and now he actually kinda live that idea with Dante
He’s so close to having a “Hans, are we the baddies?” moment, but no.
Even though I've fallen to heresy and darkness, I was an Ultramarine when I first started decades ago. I left the hobby for a few years but when I came back I found out that Guilliman had come back. The sense of relief I felt was real. My 2nd edition codex had some very good fluff about him and I hoped even then that they could find some way to heal him.
Renegade? Alpha Legionnaire?
Ah yes, Robert Gorillaman. Here’s hoping he becomes state head of Ultramar and becomes an equivalent to the Byzantines to the Imperium’s Rome
Honestly, I think it'd be interesting if Guilliman just declared the modern Imperium's bureaucracy beyond saving and founded another Imperium Secundus or something centered on Ultramar. You can keep my dad's bones - I'll keep his actual vision for humanity alive.
@@Scottoest Sounds great, I can imagine an event where Terra either falls or is destroyed, causing Gulliman to evacuate with the important people and the artifacts, and begins creating a mini empire in Ultramar which is more efficient and powerful. Meanwhile the other Primarchs just start coming back and set up their own space empire too 3
@@Scottoest The best option he could do while lessening the amount of frictions that Imperium's infrastructures and networks haven't got already, is to simply granting more autonomy, treaties and pacts between systems under Realm of Ultramar to other Imperium's worlds, streamlining world systems to be more efficient yet humane than to build dysfunctional manufactorum and hive cities, all while giving more leniency to the bureaucracy of Ultramar's political and financial systems to the nearest sectors, even at building more relations with factions that causes more benefits and lessening damages to Imperium, hence pacts and treaties are important to the inefficiency of Administrations of Imperial planets, like what's the point of pumping reliance to old tithe systems if self-sufficiency of a planet to an interstellar system can makes Imperium more habitable, amazes rivalling factions all while alluring more competing planets and systems to imitate the more positive aspects of Imperium
Take it, these kind of constructive planning or even just advices will goes against the grimdarkness of the Settings, yet said settings have been going for 30 years and everytime it tries to rejuvenate itself, it's ended up falling short for worse, whether from left to right (pun intended) or even to simply Corporate structuring, policies and other real life stuffs beyond the lores of Warhammer franchises
Ultimately guilliman is the best possible leader humanity can have in 40k, all the strategic, logistical, and political prowess of the emperor but with at least a little bit of compassion and genuine humanity
Seconded.
my dream is to have Khan, Gorillaman, and Vulkan (and maybe by some miracle pre heresy horus)
People usually forget how human those guys are (or where in case of horus) to the point where in a book horus rushed an entire battlefield to save a couple of civilians from a Ork assault.
Or that time Khan made sure that a kid that was saved after some alien incursion got trained by his right hand and regurarly checked on him
or anything (Besides that ONE AND ONLY time) that vulkan does
or Gurlli man in general, hes a cool guy
@@toobig7150 well, if Lion manages to come back and harbor at Mac... whatever Guilliman's main domain is, Top G would hand his own military to Lion while he will deal with other businesses
@@sunder739 Methinks that's the plan. Hand control of military affairs over to El'Jonson, freeing Guilliman to focus on internal affairs, and the Imperium at large.
@@toobig7150vulkan is definitely the most likely primarch to come back now that the lion is back. I mean the dude is functionally invincible and can probably just be brought back under the excuse that he's just Vulkan.
"Roboute guiliman is my favorite primarch"
-eldar fan
Yeah that explains a lot
"HE DID *WHAT* WITH A *WHAT* ?!?"
Oh..... I see what you did there. Good stuff 👏.
"KNIFE EARED HARLOT" The Lion said calmly.
@@redman7775 "GUILIMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN"
It’s actually kind of heart breaking when you get little nuanced details about events in 30k. Guilliman feeling slightly guilty about humbling his brothers legion and wants to go hunt some orks with him so they can start to be brothers again only to be betrayed by lorgar. Gulliman must of felt disappointment from nearly all his brothers at least once when he was trying to do his best.
12:32 "I only stopped punching 'cause they stopped comin'." - Roboute Guilliman, presumably.
The gist of what I learned from this video: Rowboat Gorillaman is not particularly imaginative, but he is extremely adaptable and surprisingly grounded for what may as well be a demigod.
Guilliman is a professional, to put it simply, and professionals are predictable.
Guilliman goes with what works. And what works can become predictable if you keep doing it.
His strength is that once it stops working he starts to get creative again rather than stubbornly sticking with his old strategies.
I mean you just need to look at the popularity of Captain America or Batman to understand a comparatively ordinary person when you compare him to his counterparts with nothing to go off but his own mind and moral convictions.
Nothing like recovering from surgery while watching one of your impeccable videos. Thank you for providing me your entertainment.
I hope you feel better soon!
I hope you feel better soon!
Hope it went well chief, wish you the best recovery you can have!
Thank you everyone. My recovery is going. To be a month or two shorter than they initially thought if everything goes well.
I wish you a swift recovery
Head cannon: Ultramar is where the phrase "space marine" comes from.
In Medieval French and Spanish dialects "ultramar" meant "beyond the sea". And was a name for the crusader kingdoms on the Levant. So in the High Gothic of the Imperium "ultramarine" could mean "people from Ultramar". With it contracted down to "marine" in Low Gothic. With the sons of Guiliman being so common the word marine came to refer to all members of the Adeptus Astartes.
I could honestly buy into that.
My issue with this handcanon is that we know that "Space Marine" comes from the Emperor. Otherwise, this is a very good head canon and I'll be stealing it
@@Helis431 To be fair, naming was never the strong point of the Emperor, the imperium or most of 40k factions to begin with. They named their genetically engineered supersoldiers which are exclusively men after the name of the Semitic goddess of love, sex and war. Like the name only 25% correctly described them.
Interesting
@@minhducnguyen9276 I hate to be that guy but I'm going to be that guy, the Astartes are named after Amar Astarte, a geneticist who worked for the Emperor during the unification wars and was instrumental in creating the Space Marines.
The only Primarch that understands the practical reality of running a space empire.
Congratulations on making it to 1:28 before purposely mispronouncing his name. I know the temptation was hard to fight off.
I like to imagine Guilliman was silently screaming inside every time he met one of the other primarchs and realized he was the most well adjusted of the bunch, as well as the only one who could really accept that sometimes things just go wrong and there's no one you can blame but yourself.
Also, the way he's been handling being the only sane man in an empire of lunatics has made him very endearing and more than made up for any Ultramarine hate I might have. Seriously, he's been trying and (so far) succeeding in saving the Imperium from itself by himself for over a century now in lore, and that Herculean task makes him more than worthy of respect. Now I'm always going to have a soft spot for Vulkan and the Lion, but Guilliman is what humanity NEEDS in the setting.
Now watch his character get bungled in a year or so because GW can't keep a good thing going for the life of them.
Imagine being Guilliman, and meeting Konrad or Angron for the first time LOL. "So we're gonna build a galactic empire with this team of red flags, eh dad?"
@@Scottoest Guilliman: "Can we at least get, I don't know, a therapist for some of them?"
Emperor: "No."
Guilliman: *defeated sigh* "Of course that's the answer."
He sees lorgar and just screams internally
@@theoleadfoot2864 Isn't that the reaction of everyone who sees Lorgar and who doesn't scream externally?
I wonder how Guilliman and Jagatai went along. While borderline opposite in lifestyle, their personalities are similar enough.
Even with our considering the dangers of an entire legion going rogue, splitting them up into chapters improves their efficiency. There is a reason no one deploys special forces at any unit size much larger than a company.
There's for sure upsides and downsides to splitting up the legions, definitely a coin toss
Plus they’re able to more effectively fight on several fronts all at once instead of everyone going at one direction.
It also accomplished exactly what it was meant to: ensure no one commander could ever turn traitor and threaten the Imperium at large. At worst, a Chapter Master leading those under him into treason could only muster so much force. The Badab War demonstrated this perfectly: even with a few chapters in his alliance, Huron could only do so much against the might of the Imperium.
I feel like he should have left a contingency in place similar to Dorn's Last Wall Protocol though.
While breaking up the legions was certainly a good idea at the time and probably a good idea for the long run, there are massive threats like Black Crusades where a legion would be far superior in dealing with.
@@Rawnblade13 he definitely thought about it I imagine he figured the emergency could be potentially manipulated for false causes.
Another interesting point about breaking the legions isn't just about "preventing one man from having the power of a legion" but also Guilliman knew very well how much hatred and animosity there was throughout The Imperium for the Legions. After all the legions had been the cause of the heresy and its destruction. So he broke them down into chapters to placate The Imperium to ensure they wouldn't turn on him or his surviving brothers.
Guilliman is definitely one of the very few "good guys" in 40k. Also wasn't he the one who ordered the Ultramarines to destroy an Eldar craftworld or was that given on someone else's orders? Honest question. I heard about it recently and was curious.
No, he’s one of the few good guys with institutional power, the guard and even most space marine chapters are full of good guys who are disallowed from being good by iron handed bureaucrats and malicious inquisitors
My favorite thing with the Primarchs is that most problems would of be solved if they had actual parents. Guilliman is one of the most like well rouned emotionaly strong primarchs. Go figure good parenting works even on demigods
This is why Erda is a bitch
I mean that's not anyone's fault really, the were scattered because of the chaos gods dicking around
In regard to Monarchia, Guilliman actually DID go against Big E. Big E wanted it wiped out as soon as the Ultramarines were in orbital firing range. Guilliman waited an entire week, informed the citizens that they needed to evacuate or die, AND allowed them to call out to Lorgar.
Granted, I think that last thing was a mistake all things considered since maybe letting your brother see his favorite city on his favorite world be utterly nuked out of existence before having a chance to talk to him about it probably wouldn't let negotiations proceed well...which is actually kind of funny since Robute is SUPPOSED to be the negotiator XD
Lorgar was far away, Emperor was close and Primarchs were engineered to followe Emperor to some extent.
@@piotrd.4850 What?
I love the emphasis on how if you give Guilliman even a hesitant second to get his bearings on a situation you’re supremely fucked
Now that the Lion is back, I truly hope Dorn is next because there’s gonna be a meeting and they are gonna have to talk to him about his Successors.
“Theywent on a WHAT Crusade? There’s how many of them? The Crimson Fists sound cool. They nuked WHAT accidentally? Soul Drinkers. Their chapter master is a WHAT?”
Also this video? Sir. This video. A full Citizen Kane clap for you.
You called him guilty spark and I had an involuntary mental reaction lol, I think I've been playing too much Halo😂
10:54
"After big E was killed, and Horus killed even harder"
Best summary joke i ve ever heard
Power word Kill
Power word What?
@@Demopans5990 true, lol
As half deaf it's even more so))
I don’t need to see the video to know that the reason why pancreas is truly saying that guilliman is the best is because of yvraine and his Eldar obsession.
The banshees be kinda bad tho
I would @@lavellelee5734
Ah, yes, Guilliman. Can never get too far away from him in any lore discussion.
What’s amusing about Guilliman is that insofar as people love grim dark, Guilliman doesn’t quite fit it. No one misconstrues what is going to happen when Angron shows up on a planet with a band of screaming World Eaters, or Logan Grimnar ends up anywhere near an Inquisitor. We intuitively expect characters to be murder hobos, big battles, much dying. And there are grudges from thousands of years ago, or undead killing machines, or simply getting murdered for no real reason at all. That’s what we expect from 40k.
But none of that is really Guilliman. Sure, he’s a Primarch, so he will kill with astounding ability, but Guilliman is not spoken of as a warrior like say, Sanguinius, Fulgrim, or even Corax. He isn’t on some grudge match like a Leman Russ or Corax, he isn’t on some secret mission or on some incomprehensible goal, his legion is almost boringly vanilla. Guilliman is basically a boring character as 40k characters go. Yet it is exactly this that makes Guilliman interesting to people. Guilliman would fit in to the real world where no other Primarch would, aside from his size and whatnot. He is as close to a normal human in reality than most 40k humans, to say nothing of primarchs. He is as civilized as they come. It’s just weird.
I like it. Humanity doesn’t need an inhuman demigod right now, it needs a _flawed_ one. Someone who isn’t above going down to one knee to speak with someone eye to eye. Someone who can collate and then make the big decisions, then move on. Someone _like_ the Emperor.
_Like_ him.
His humanity, ironically, makes him far better suited to rulership than the actual ruler of the Imperium. He doesn’t give a shit about the long view when it comes to the Imperium, in the “is it on fire? WELL PUT IT OUT!” Sense. Now to avoid heresy, I will clarify that without the Emperor, humanity would die off in weeks, so He’s still _very_ important. He’s just…not human enough. Sounds contradictory I know, but we’ve seen how “active” gods can run their empires into the ground.
I honestly think some kind of Ultramarine / Tau / Eldar alliance novel would slap hard if written correctly. I might try my hand at that.
@@Kirisame312 most likely just a couple of craftworlds would be genuinely open to that sort of alliance without major ulterior and undermining motives *cough cough* Ulthwe...
Like the man said in the vid, you need someone to be normal, to be the standard. For better or worse, the Ultramarines are essentially the only thing that kept the loyalist Imperium together.
Papa Smurf should've been warmaster.
(This is not an opinion, that's fact).
He's not just a primarch, he's not just the greatest primarch, he's the ULTRAPRIMARCH
I mean tbf to Guilliman a lot of those negative things weren’t really things he wanted to do, like pretty sure the 2nd and 11th legion thing was get them to join your legion or they end up like the thunder warriors. Hell them not getting killed immediately is probably because of pretty impressive diplomacy by Guilliman.
We know that Malcador himself literally said that he and Emperor knew that all those Astartes were too valuable of a resource to waste. Personally I doubt Roboute had anything to do with it but I would agree that he would have made that argument, and successfully, if it came to it.
@@nurglerider781I thought there was a short story where Malcador specifically says Dorn and Guilliman argued for the legions of the 2nd and 11th to be spared.
@@mcnuggets2825 Hmm, that could be. I obviously haven't read everything. I was making my assumption based off the statements Malcador said to someone but it's been long enough it could have been that very conversation and I just don't remember that part.
@@nurglerider781 Definitely wouldn't disagree with Malcador probably being involved, almost put in that comment that it was out of character for everyone else in power besides Malcador, The Chamber at the End of Memory is the short story with Dorn and Malcador talking about it. Honestly always kind of felt like Malcador and Guilliman had basically the same character/ideals beyond Malcador being a lot more cynical, they are a lot more similar than any of the other brothers with each other or Big E imo. Which makes the fact Malcador doesn't seem to really like/trust him even funnier.
I've always been saying this. In a world where everyone is batshit insane, being sane makes you special enough
As a Alpha legion fan Alphagon and Omegarius are now cannon thank you
I am Alpharomiusegon
@@ianbyrne465 This is a lie .
@@piotrmiler234 or is it?
Something to consider with the breaking of the Legions- A Legion-sized force is great when on the offense, it allows for the focusing of power and the logistics support in a military situation. You don't have to supply many little groups burning through supplies in offensive engagements. Post-Heresy, the Imperium was no longer offensive. It was defensive- Recovering from a loss of half their effective military power and great internal damage.
The founding of Chapters spread Astartes support out in a way that permitted them to respond to effective brush fires that mustered up in that time- The Traitor Legions were about but they weren't concentrated. There was no enemy of great power at that time- A Legion would've been a waste of power and presence, especially since they'd need time to zip from engagement to engagement. The Chapter-standard is actually a brillliant way of, for a lack of a better term, de-offensive-izing, the Astartes into a supportive force.
Is it because he shares your love for the Eldar females?
That's what I was thinking!
Dirty xenos! Suffer not the alien!
Guillimen is my second favorite loyalist primarch (the Khan beats it out imo just because i find him more fun) and is tied with Perterabo as my second favorite overall primarch, it's nice to have someone in 40k who both understands the value and importance of diplomacy and logistics.
Gman The Khan Sanguinius and Vulcan are my favorites
my favourite is Perturabo because i think he's the ideal blend of sympathetic and unsympathetic, on the one hand it is sad what happened to him, but on the other hand he really does bring most of it on himself, he's like the Arnold Rimmer of the 40k universe
Ultramarines aren't my favorite legion, but Guilliman is my favorite primarch. He's just the most sensible person actually trying to fix stuff and isn't arrogant or petty like the rest of them. The only ones even in the same tier as him were Sanguinius, Vulkan, and pre-heresy Horus. Ferrus, Corax, Khan, and Dorn were all good primarchs as well in a tier right beolow. Lion, Russ, and Fulgrim were up their own asses about being "special" and don't even get me started on the traitors. Angron, Mortarion, Curze, and Lorgar were morons with emotional trauma. Perturabo was the best of the traitors and was one hug or "good job son" away from being a good guy. Magnus did a lot of dumb stuff, but he got shafted hard by the Emperor. Alpharius/Omegon is a meme so I won't comment on them.
I feel like it should be noted; when Guilliman woke up, he had the Emperor’s flaming sword as a weapon (probably obtained by Caul, because this is Caul we’re talking about). This sword has the power to obliterate souls, and by all accounts permakill demons. Add on his new armor that more or less restored him to perfect clarity and physical health?
I’d say the Big Blue Gorillaman waking up would indeed be a terrifying sight. Mainly for Chaos, due to the soul-obliterating sword in his hand.
When Guilliman first awoke he did not have the Emperor's sword. All he had was the Hand of Dominion which he had when he went into stasis. He got the Emperor's sword from the Emperor after he fought Magnus on Luna during the Battle of the Lions gate.
@@LSgaming201that got retconned to him having it even during the Scouring
My favourite Primarchs have always been the ones who care about humanity. Guilliman is just that person. The only one who comes close is Vulcan but even then he just left. Guilliman stayed and kept going.
To be honest Vulcan is probably waiting out his respawn timer
Before their corruption Magnus and Fulgrim were among these. Ahhh if only Magnus had put some points in his wisdom skill as well 😢
@@berilsevvalbekret772 that and some humble points. What the Horus Heresy be without Magnus's betrayal.
in fairness isn't vulkan floating around in space somewhere?
@@thejuiceking2219 yup, no idea where he is or what he is doing but he is just hanging around
Pretty based take. Remember, the most important thing to winning wars is logistics, logistics, logistics, which is something smurfchad excels at.
Also, Ultramarines have the best aesthetic of all space marines, fight me.
Especially when they lean into the more ornate roman motifs, like the Victrix Guard
They should, but GW makes them so plain. I want a stronger Roman aesthetic for more than just the occasional HQ model.
I prefer my Salamanders’ aesthetics (HH Pyroclasts are just baller) but man I really do like ultramarines accessories like the wingface masks and the laurels. It’s all just neat
they used to look cool, but then being the poster boys really fucked them over. They don’t even have a unique aesthetic any more.
I prefer Dark Angels but the Victrix Guard are one of the best marine designs
Guillimom: "Robby my boy for the last time, you're not a demi-god being, come down from the stars. Don't let your father hear about this please. You'll grow out of it, you'll see...."
Roboute: "No, you don't understand! It's not just a phase moooom!!"
16:18 He's an enlightened man who knows when to let someone else be on top.
Sanguinius may be my favorite, but Gulliman is the best overall primarch in my opinion.
YES!!!!!!! I’ve finally found another Guilliman enjoyer!!!! He’s my favorite character and primarch!!!! I genuinely love how intelligent he is and how much he just cares for the imperium. I’m currently reading the godblight novel, and his talks about his brothers and the imperium are genuinely heartbreaking. He truly misses mortarion and angron and all the others and wants what’s best for the human race. He loves his sons and is trying his best to reverse the effects the Horus Heresy had on the galaxy
Guilliman is pretty great, but my favorite is Jaghatai Khan. He has so many great moments, like when he makes the orcs run by singlehandedly cutting them like a demon wind, his discussion with Malcador, his meeting with Sanguinius, how he roasted Fulgrim's dueling prowess, his declaration of war on the daemons as he tore the heart of a keeper of secrets and his determination to save lives during the Siege of Terra, even at cost of his own. He created a multicultural legion through diplomacy and sensibly integrated psychers into everyday life, feats not even the Emperor could achieve. He also had the rarest, most OP power in all 40k: common sense. Guilliman was the better empire builder, but the Khan's measured approach and strong principles just make him incredibly memorable.
I'd argue common sense is a trait they both share. Still the rarest thing in 40k
You know I haven't read much about the Khan
But damn he sounds like a swell guy
Another endearing point about Jaghatai is that he would be fine with living a simple life. He doesn't really have ambitions of empire building like Guilliman or obsessive warrior spirit like Dorn, Russ, or the Lion. After he conquered the dominant culture on Chogoris and freed his tribe(s) from their cruelty and oppression, he simply dismantled his newfound empire and lived a basic nomadic existence until the coming of the Emperor called him to action. Very chill dude. Plays Go well. First Captain Qin Xa never beat him at it (or anyone else for that matter).
And every interaction of him and Magnus his fave bro. Him asking how to restore him with such sincerety touched that shard of Magnus. If there is a chance of redemption for daemon primarchs that redemption will come in the form of guilliman , jaghatai and russ for Magnus I believe. I hope at least.
The Bureaucrat and The Diplomat
it was funny that for a while guilliman was pretty much the protagonist of 40k, fighting literally every badguy back to back
Guilliman may not be a flashiest, the strongest, nor the most personable primarch, but he has mastered the most inportant skill to have when waging war in such a large setting: LOGISTICS. He is the best because his primarch superpower is Microsoft Excel
Guilliman is literally just Caesar appearance wise, but I’ll stick space Beowulf and his boys for aesthetics only, but lore wise gotta be Black Templars, still Guillaman if he is paired with Lion El Johnson or Dorn to run the military while he handles the government could reboot the empire to pre heresy days in the lore I hope
In a galaxy that has million planets under empire's control, being organized is a super power.
1:50 well there is a reason vanilla is "plain". the best is used so often people forget about it!
Hello, based dept? This man, right here. Yes, he deserves the medal for "most based comment."
You know, this is still my favorite video from you, and I am never bothered to see it show up in my feed even though I've already watched it a few times. Good stuff.
Guilliman's #1 superpower: He's able to not only admit his mistakes, but also learn from them. That and his god-tier organizational and accounting skills make him the greatest primarch.
What doesn't kill me
Clearly isn't trying hard enough
🤣 I like that
Smurf Man Supreme had to show up eventually, so nice for him to have the spotlight for a while
Just started watching, but I can't wait for the Lion to come back. I really hope he and Papa smurf fight.
I forget the full quote, but it's something along the line of "Robot guilty spark is either a traitor or a fool. No one should replace the emperor, and I'll give my whole legion to make that happen."
He did allow imperium secundus to be a thing for a while though.. remember that it consisted of him, roboute and sanguinius ruling over a chunk of space..
@@lavatun for what I understand, it was due to the uncertainty of the situation.
They were in a position were the death of the Emperor was a possibility, and needed to act accordingly.
@Yawar Apuyurak yes, yes it was..
@@lavatun it also involved the lion, and the moment the three realized the emperor actually lived they dissolved it and rushed for terra.
@R.C Da Human funnily enough it was guilliman who decided to dissolve secundus, not sanguinius despite him being the emperor in secundus..
I remember being hated every time I expressed the minimum compassion or appreciation for his character and his legion. Like you, I love the Ultramarines and to me, they are by far the best chapter with the best Primarch. I cringe so much when I still see in 2024, people hating on him and calling him Rowboate Girlyman...seriously, how cringe can one be? Especially towards the one who kept the whole Imperium together and was mature and honest enough to consistently keep it together and even admit to his own failures. A true icon and role model for any Astartes and human to strive for.
Angrons's wrath
Guilliman, like Cain, are proof that the greatest power in 40k is common sense.
Good ol' Rowboat Girlyman, the actual Main Character, bravely leading his chapter: the Main Character Space Marines.
One reason I've become fond of him are his flaws, especially the ones he has no idea about. Example, during the plague wars he was constantly wanting to find his nurgly brother and fight him, convinced that he would be able to defeat him. He conveniently forgot that he lost almost all fights with his brothers before they turned into demon princes (Magnus was handing him his arse before the no fun police showed up, snake boy literally put him in time out for 10k, etc). The fact that he hasn't realized that being a great all round hero means that he has some serious flaws in his swordplay makes me giggle.
You seem to have it backwards lmao.
he also knew he could not hold off against angron and magnus but he still didd it anyway
I think it’s funny that the primarch who probably understands the emperor the most deifies him the least is the one who is most like him. Guilliman and the Emperor love order, obedience, planning ahead, etc. They differ in the fact that Guilliman is not as powerful and thus knows when he is wrong and knows how to admit that. The emperor was a guy who was right and flawless his literal entire life to the point that he had a plan for complete human conquest of the entire galaxy. The plan was as close to flawless as you could get with one small flaw. He underestimated chaos and the overestimated his sons were. He didn’t realize they were not perfect and above all he didn’t realize that even he wasn’t perfect. He made a mistake and that cost him everything. If he told his sons about the pleasures and the pain of chaos then there may not have been a Horus heresy. He could still be alive. Yet, one misstep and the entire plan fell apart. A plan so perfect that if anything went wrong it would be destroyed. Guilliman is like Big E in many ways except better. Not because he is stronger, smarter, or better looking. He is better because he is not perfect and has never been perfect. I like to think the emperor was frozen when he saw Horus kill sanguinius not because he loved Horus or sanguinius. But because he realized that he made a mistake and that mistake cost him his everything. That for a moment he doubted his own existence and plans for the future for humanity. That if he trusted the people around him more maybe things would have gone better. That may be giving Emps and GW too much credit but still it’s a nice thought. I completely agree that Guilliman is at least top three if not the best primarch.
Guilliman gang let’s go! Best Primarch and it’s not even close. (It’s pretty close but still)
I really appreciate all these Warhammer videos, thank you very much. They make my day better.
I'd say best depends on your criteria. (Sanguinius was probably the best of the Primarchs, but ya know...he dead.) Though I think most can agree that if any Primarch can save the Imperium, it's Guilliman.
Kind of hard to top the fabulous hawk boy. He died for you, after all.
Well Sanguinnius was the best warrior. But i would say he was a mid general and his admin skills weren't great. He was also sort of unstable and hard to predict, which is great for fucking with the enemy, but it harms his allies too. Remember, he very nearly fell to Chaos. Chaos Sanguinnius would be Satan incarnate.
@@bloodangel19 Even the lore itself states Sanguinius was the best among them. (Though I think it's referring to best as a person.)
Even Guilliman recognized that, that's why he made Sanguinius the "Emperor" of Secundus.
@@Rawnblade13 well yeah i guess best as a person yes. But a perfect primarch does not exist, they were all built with a clear goal in mind and there is no do all solve all primarch. Had Sanguinnius returned instead of Guilliman i doubt he would have saved the imperium.
@@bloodangel19 I think Horus was the superior strategist and statesmen, I believe the Ultramarines conquered more worlds than any legion aside from the Luna wolves. Horus was obviously insecure which lead to his downfall but I believe he was the “best” primarch before he fell
As a World Eaters simp I simply have to say basically all the bad things that happen to Angron aren't his fault. 90% are directly or indirectly caused by other people.
He's the only traitor primarch other than maybe magnus, that's actually sympathetic.
I was going to count lorgar and mortarian but lorgar started the heresy essentially and mortarian became nurgle's occasional fleshlight incase Isha isn't satisfactory enough. I know typhus caused morty to fall to chaos but it doesn't make any less pathetic.
Angron is basically that zombie dinosaur from primal's plague of madness episode. He didn't ask to be a ruthless monster but he became one due to bad luck but he still needs to be put down in order to prevent further destruction. His tragedy also made he dislike lorgar, the big E and the Eldar.
It's his fault for being weak enough to constantly be victim to circumstance. The Emperor probably botched him by making him an empath though, he was never willing to use his strength to preserve himself and as such ended up with the nails in his head. If Lion can grow up on a literal chaos-beast infested forest as an infant and survive, I don't want to hear a sob story about Angron being shackled by a pre-modern civilization lmao
@@KevinJohnson-cv2no There is a big difference between having to fight the occasion chaos monster and having to fight all the armies of a world with technology roughly equivalent to the Imperium.
Angron I find especially tragic because for all his power and trying, so much of the agency he had in life was basically suppressed, including by his own father.
That doesn’t excuse his own atrocities, but his anguish and rage is completely understandable and tragic. It’d make sense that at the end he’d turn into a Daemon of pure bloodlust and rage.
@@jonathanathor117 I’d argue Lorgar should be up there, because while I think he wrong about Chaos…he was right about the Emperor being a god of mankind.
Because, despite the Emperor’s protests and declarations otherwise, he was de facto a living and immortal god. One who likely inspired many of early mankind’s religions.
Not only that, Lorgar converted how many of the human worlds peacefully and prosperously through essentially missionary work?
Then the Emperor went and killed a bunch of people because he hated that Lorgar was doing that. Which basically broke Lorgar and influenced him to turn to the powers that the Emperor wanted to get rid of?
I still hold the Emperor would’ve been better off and more honest about embracing his godhood.