The Tower of Joy: What Lyanna Told Ned - Aegon's Prophecy p4
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- Опубликовано: 6 фев 2025
- Did Rhaegar Targaryen tell Lyanna Stark about Aegon's prophecy? And did Lyanna tell Ned at the Tower of Joy? Did the Starks already know, going back to Torrhen Stark?
Aegon’s Prophecy Series:
Part 1: Aegon’s Prophecy, Explained • Rhaegar, Dany & Jon: A...
Part 2: From Aegon to Viserys • How Did It Reach Viser...
Part 3: Why Torrhen Knelt • Why Torrhen Stark Knel...
Part 4: What Lyanna Told Ned • The Tower of Joy: What...
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What strikes me as strange about the prophecy is that Starks and Targaryens didnt try making children together for so many generations
To keep the power of the Dragons to themselves more than likely 🤔
But Alysane arranged many marriages for her children and grandchildren to other great families why not the Starks? Seriously nobody though of producing say a Blackfyre or Snow to test it out? Are we missing a line of the prophecy that says it will cause a massive war if they merge houses?
Never in the prophecy does it state, that the child must be of both stark and Targaryen lineage.
It just states that a Targaryen will save them and he should be sitting on the iron throne.
Ice in the song of ice and fire prophecy, could just mean the night king and long night/ long winter ❄️ 🥶 🧊
My personal canon is Lyanna fell in love with Rhaegar and Rhaegar would “woo”her with tales of prophecy and Knowledge.
Married Elia out of duty and Lyanna out of love.
The Starks were too far with little to offer the Tygaryen dynasty politically and economically. Plus they were steadfast and loyal vassals until Aerys left them no choice but to rebel. So there was no need to buy their favor with marriage alliances. A song of ice and fire seems to be Rhaegar's interpretation of things. Though he could have been right, I don't think the previous heirs understood it that way. Otherwise, there would be a lot of Tygaryen betrothals to northern ladies of which the Starks would have been obviously top choice given they're aristocrats. In short, for centuries, there was little political and economic motivations to do so.
@@polishherowitoldpilecki5521 Makes sense that the northerners would play a significant part given the long night is a prominent part of their history and folklore. The Starks possess and have close interactions with ice magic. They can warg, have wolves, have closer interaction with the night's watch, the white walkers, the sword ice, weirwoods, the old gods WINTER-FELL, the children, kings of winter e.t.c. Thus they form a significant part of the icy end. I agree that it represents two collectives of ice and fire battling it out. But there's human parts to that collective. The human part of a song of ice are the Starks, as the Tygaryens are the human part of a song of fire. I don't think Rhaegar was entirely wrong to reach his conclusions. I think he either picked the wrong candidate or only solved a small part of the mysterious puzzle. In short, I don't think the writer would dedicate the primary theme of his book to Tygaryens fighting a faceless, nameless ice monsters that have no emotional appeal. He's the kind that likes to complicate things and make it painful for his readers . Therefore, I believe the night's king will somehow be a familiar person in the books, possibly even someone we care about.
If Ned had known, he would not have dismissed what the Night's Watch desserter said when he killed him in the first chapter of Book One
Good point he would’ve been more open to hear him out. Ned still would’ve executed him because he deserted but he would’ve sat him down and listened to his every word before he did it. Ned could’ve reported to Lord Royce that his son was dead but nooo Ned was so gung ho to show his 7 year old son how tough he was by cutting some poor dudes head off. Here, it’s eat the rich in Westeros it’s eat the lords!!! Rise up Northmen you have nothing to lose but your chains
Agreed. I think the Stark knowledge of the prophecy ended probably with Eddard's grandfather.
I think it might be possible that Lyanna knows Rhaegar isn't just talking out of his ass, but not from any story handed down from Torrhen Stark, but from Howland Reed. If anyone knows about the coming threat and how it's real and not just a story told to frighten children, it's him. Both she and Ned were close to Howland, but Ned being so skeptical about old stories and magic would prevent Howland Reed from confiding in him what he learned on the Isle Of Faces. But would he confide in Lyanna? Probably.
Someone else brought up Howland and I think it’s a good notion. He would know more about magic and prophecy than Ned for sure
Damn, I need TWOW right now 😂
We can learn so much from Howland if we ever meet him. Hopefully we will get that chance
If this comes to be, I wonder if Howland Reed and his adventure on the Isle of Faces had a role to play in convincing Lyanna about all the prophecy stuff. He remains one of the more mysterious figures in the story, but he has seen a lot.
Props for the Craig Mack inclusion!
Oh hey that’s a good notion! Howland may have better understood Rhaegar and Lyanna’s intentions / ideas better than Ned
I too believe that there is SO much more to Howland’s story than we yet know. I hope GRRM fills in some of the mystery. I kind of feel sure that is inevitable, really. Doesn’t Howland feel a bit like a gun hanging on the wall or in George’s case a “ wolf pack” as he has already compared that aspect of his story to?
But no one has seen what galadrial has seen
The hell borderlands 😅😊
I do love the idea of Jon getting to "meet" his biological parents in a vision. But idk, Howland Reed IS out there, and is probably the last living person to know about Jon's lineage 🤔
Ned was actively opposed to sending Jon to the Wall, so he probably wasn't "hedging his bets" about the song of ice and fire
You know, I can't help but think that Elia got the worst of it out of everyone. I have a feeling she was in on the whole plan but damn...she and her children are the saddest part to me.
I mean even if she did know that doesn't really justify Rhaegar abandoning them to fend for themselves against his father who he knows is batshit insane.
@@annieandelsieofarendelle3294In Rhaegar's limited defense, first he had Elia and his family on Dragonstone, away from his dad, then Aerys brought Rhaegar's family to King's Landing and Rhaegar charged Jaime Lannister with protecting them, even asking him during a weirwood stump dream why he didn't.
Ser Jaime was the last Kingsguard and in charge of the Red Keep's defenses, then stopping Aerys from committing a wildfire King Landing's apocalypse, so he wound up a little busy, not suspecting Tywin's men were coming to murder Elia. Ser Jaime tried slinking out of the throne room after putting Aerys down, but he got caught and thought he should stay there to give away the Iron Throne. If he'd run off to check on Elia and the children, he might have had to fight the Mountain tk save them, which would have been glorious
It's quite likely it was Elia who convinced Rhaegar to pick Lyanna, so she could survive with her children and he agreed to spare her.
It might have then been the two of them going over the prophecies and then get convinced they needed a Stark girl.
If Rhaegar thought he needed a Stark girl all along, he would have probably tried to arrange a marriage with the Starks, and never gotten involved with Elia.
It's quite likely Elia was the one Rhaegar loved and Lyanna the one he saw as duty.
He charged Ser Jaime with protecting his family and when he appears to Ser Jaime in a weirwood dream, he asks about why Elia and her children weren't protected, indicating care for her.
This stuck out on GOT Bran Chapter I:
“Direwolves loose in the realm, after so many years,” muttered Hullen, the master of
horse. “I like it not.”
“It is a sign,” Jory said.
Father frowned. “This is only a dead animal, Jory,” he said. Yet he seemed troubled.
Snow crunched under his boots as he moved around the body
-----
Perhaps Ned remembered something about a prophecy and scoffed at "signs".
In my estimation, if Aegon shared his prophetic knowledge with Torrhen, then Torrhen didn't have to pass it down "completely". Meaning that the whole "there must always be a Stark in Winterfell" Thing may just be the shortend and simplified version that could be passed down to future generations without being seen as weird by Northern standards. It would still achieve the same intent, but without running the same risks as sharing the whole thing.
Until this series came out I never really thought about how Aegon having a strict prophecy adds so much thematic depth to the emotional maneuvers of the main characters in the ASOIAF series. Great work David.
A shadow of a woman was staring at him.
"Aunt Lyanna?"
The shadow gave no reply, not even a sigh. The sound of his pounding heart deafening his ears.
"My Son."
Jon's eyes widened as he heard those words. No woman has ever called him that. He could not recall the last his father called him that. Probably because he had never. His mouth dried as he tried to speak. No words will come out. He stood. His eyes are as wide as it can be. He stood.
"Viserys. My son."
The shadow creeps toward him.
"My name is Jon," He said as he backed a step.
"Oh.. Viserys.." The shadow made a sound which sounded as if it was a cry. It was all he could do to not be scared at the crying shadow leaning towards him. He stood for the shadow to reach him. The torch lit its face and for a brief moment he thought of Arya, only this face was parallel to his own.
"Viserys," once more the shadow called him that name.
My name is Jon, thought Jon.
The shadow stroked his hair.
"Your hair, it's black like mine. I told him so. But Rhaegar never believed."
was this from the book 😮?
@@nyx7781 no, i wrote it after watching the video.🙃
This is awesome! Why Vicerys?
@@kash.e.w.6937 Rhaegar had already named his other two children Aegon and Rhaenys (as in the Conqueror and his sister-wife... Leaving Visenya)
The Dragon must have three heads.
Jon is boy.... So Viserys.
@@rhaevan.maniyara But the female equivalent of Viserys is Viserra, so how can the male equivalent of Visenya be Viserys?
Ned comes across a lot wiser in the whole series than he ever did in GOT.
Considering that Aegon’s dream was known as “The Song of Ice and Fire” I’m surprised the Targaryens didn’t start marrying Starks 100 years before Rhaegar and Lyanna.
They probably assumed and maybe reasonably that Fire = Good and Ice = Bad.
Its about ice and fire long night and fire sword light just like winter is coming
Yeah, that would have been smart. It might have come down to Targaryens being stuck in old bad Valyrian customs, like incest, that got in the way of their duties. Like their petty civil wars, the Dance and Blackfyre Rebellions, got in the way of their prophetic duties.
Damn, Rhagar _had_ to have been hot, because I don't think "us having sex was prophesized" would work otherwise
Yes yea it’s a one-two punch
Interestingly, Ned’s original plan for Jon’s future was (and I may mix up some details here, I’m going off the top of my head) to give Jon lands in the Gift or New Gift, and set him up as Lord Jon Snow, just south of the wall. That means another stronghold, with an army, would be there to defend the North from north of The Wall. So it definitely sounds like Ned was at least going through the motions of setting Jon up as a defender of the North from the beginning.
LML- this channel is quickly becoming my favourite for GoT content. I love these shorter videos. Your sense of humour is great too… I’m constantly cracking up at your jokes or imitations, especially Robert Baratheon 😂😂
Bobby B is my man!
Careful. The LML addiction goes full blown quickly😅
I love your videos, man. Sometimes I'll disagree with parts, but even then I'm always in it for the ride. :) Jon's prophetic vission when he's dead for a bit sounds like a great idea, and I won't be surprised if that's what we'll read in coming book.
Right on! I try to present my theories and speculations with caveats so people can draw their own conclusions too and still enjoy the content even if they disagree, so thanks very much for saying so
man I'd love it if David did content about Dark Souls or Bloodborne
I know its not gonna happen but the heavy symbolism, philosophy, convoluted, lovecraftian and inter-connected style of narrative fits this channel like a glove.
same 😭
Dude played a clip from the Craig Mack classic Flava in ya ear. This channel is a fucking banger
sometimes a get an earworm and I just gotta do it. you know I got that. flava. in ma ear.
@@DavidLightbringer well played sir. I’m watching a lot of your theory videos and I’m really enjoying them. Keep ‘em coming appreciate the work you put into these.
I speculate that as the Targaryen, the Starks have some stories or prophecies that are passed from father to heir for this reason, and we will see somethig in the next season. Because is starge that Ned take arms against the crown; I mean, Rickard had all to make a move and instead he went to KL to negotiated with a mad king??? Probably Ned was not include in the discutions as his future was to be an intermediary between the north and south. Also I want to add that from all the high families, the Starks were the only ones that had never tried to make a royal marriage, and the why is the real question! probably because the union of ice and fire could accelerated the prophecy, just some ramble, but I think I'm in the right direction.
Ned and Robert were condemned to death by Aerys, Ned’s decision to rebel doesn’t need a mythical explanation.
Remember, girls. If an older man starts talking about prophecies and insisting you’re predestined to bear his child-run. Run fast. Yes, especially if he plays an instrument.
definitely good advice in the real world, since prophecy isn't real
You've been on fire with these video subjects I'm loving them!
🎵Take a look, it’s on a knife, it’s a Reading Rhaegar🎵
Great video
Jeez, Old Nan has been spinning those scary stories boys like Bran like to hear since Aegon's Conquest.
I really appreciate the way you coordinate your t-shirts with the videos. winter roses and ice & fire symbolism. And deftones are amazing of course
Rhaegar, tone-deaf? Never! He sang like Chino Moreno, that’s how he made the ladies cry
I have been waiting for this one! I just recently found your channel and it made me go down a rabbit hole. I have even started reading the books because of you videos! Thank you and I'm looking forward to more content 💜
Welcome to the family!
@@andrzejkopalnia Thank you! Happy to be here 😊
I love the Aegon's prophecy series, especially this about Rhaegar and Lyanna. Thank you professor David 🦉♥️
Ah, 7-hells! David this was a great take on the Tower of Joy aspect!
We deserve a remake of GOT in the near future!
Keep delivering that "Light", Bro!
Really loving this new series and amazed out how you can continue to crank out the content we know and love!
If Ned believed the Saviour of the world would come from mingling of the blood of the dragon and ice, maybe that was why he was happy to see Sansa marry Joffrey. Just because Robert's surname was Baratheon didn't mean he didn't have Targaryen blood.
(I don't think Ned was looking for any such saviour, but maybe he thought a Baratheon/Stark marriage was good enough - not realising Joffrey was not, in fact, Robert's son).
Only thing about that Ned was not fond of Joffery he only agreed to the marriage was because of Robert.
He wasn't happy, only did it because Catelyn convinced him and to please Robert.
I sobbed when the show confirmed R + L = J (it was a really powerful scene). I wonder how I'll react when the books do it.
Unless they won't do it. After all, Martin's wife laughed at RLJ suggestion, saying that it's too simple and obvious for her husband's writing style, it would actually be embarrassing lmao
I personally don‘t know what to believe. But as long as it is presented well and it makes sense I am fine with it.
Your video quality has improved tremendously over the years. Thanks for all your hard work. Praise Garth!
Now I'm addicted to your videos, please keep'em coming. Promise me, David.
"Promisse me Ned... promisse me you will kill this monstruosi... .ugh..."
- Lyanna's (definitely) last words, according to Dovahatty "Unbiased" Review
Was watching another video when I saw this and left it mid-sentence to watch this instead 😍
awwwwww
I always loved the idea that Lyanna sidestepped Rhaegar after the birth, like Jon was the mythical baby until she took one look at her son. He had black hair and dark eyes, not even the blood of the dragon could keep him from being a Stark. Winter is coming, Jon was proof, and he is a Stark of Winterfell. Surely there were plans to smuggle the baby to house Dayne (and maybe that's why Ned visited, to let them know Lyanna didn't make it and he was adopting Jon). With one "promise me, Ned" she made sure the boy would be a man of the North when winter came.
oh that's very interesting!
As always, amazing form and content. Thanks for your hard work! Do you think that Lyanna using the Laughing Tree sigil in the tourney means something in the prophecy? Especially since Brynden Rivers is already half-tree by then. The Mad King sent Rhaegar to find the "knight", and when he did, and realized it was an ice woman and what she had done, maybe the bulb went off in HİS head. The rest as they say, is history.
Well, it’s definitely symbolism for us to think about, but yeah it makes sense if Rhaegar out the clues together to figure out it was her
You are my favorite GOT channel! Keep up the great work!!
The prince that was promised..... "Promise me Ned, promise me"..... Jon was the prince, he was promised.
That's so cheesy it actually makes me vom in my mouth a little bit
Great content! I dig the deftones tee also btw
hell yeah Mastadon is cool too, I'm way into AAL
Craig Mac!?!?!?! LML, you killing me!!!!
Another great one!! Thank you!! 😊
Great piece !
Brilliant analysis. This recontextualizes so many of the mysterious events of the story, heightens the drama involved with R+L=J and neatly folds the threat of the Others into the political intrigue involved in the great game
Yeah I really thought so too
Great video! Would be awsome to have the next video with alert of spoilers when talking about Jace! Cheers
Love that reading rainbow riff on the bass. maybe we can get Levar Burton to read Fire and Blood to us, or the Winds of Winter if it ever comes out.
I started to hear reading rainbow so faintly. I thought I was nuts!!
Nice touch with the flavor in your ear 🎵🎤
The idea that anyone other than Jon Snow could be Raegar & Lyanna's son is just ridiculous, we are practically told that Jon is both a king - by Mormont's raven whilst discussing the Targaryen history - & when Jon dreams he is fighting the Others clad in black ice with a burning red sword. What does this mean? That Jon is someone other than Azor Ahai? As for fAegon/Y. Griff, it is equally obvious that he is the direct descendant of both Bittersteel & Damon Blackfyre - Aegor Rivers/Bittersteel married Damon's daughter, & we hear nothing about any possible offspring. Tyrion has a dream that he fights in a battle with Barristan Selmy & Bittersteel, while riding the coach with Ilyrio - who is Bittersteel? This is clear forshadowing that another Bittersteel is going to make an appearance, who is that likely to be other than fAegon?
100% dead accurate my friend
@@DavidLightbringer Oh yes, one last major example I forgot - although there are plenty more - Melisandre of Ashai's looking into the flames for Azor Ahai & seeing repeatedly Jon Snow. Again, how is one to interpret that, along with all the other hints?
@@vorborinov4054 technically repeatedly seeing snow, not Jon Snow, but it's obvious symbolism that it's our boy
Lyanna‘s last words: He is to be the Prince that is promised!
Ned: Hush Sister , Robbert will Murder all of us.
The art in this video! ❄️🔥
Great video, but damn I'm looking forward to the next one too!
yEs i can't wait for you to talk about alysanne's visit to the north !!!
Bruh, when you played Craig mack, chef's kiss!! Lol I love it
Great video. A couple things though- I highly doubt Ned thought the wall was good for Jon and his future or that he could fulfill some prophecy there. He really did not want him there but was left with no choice... I also can't see Rickard passing that knowledge down to Lyanna. The Targaryen custom was king to heir so if the Starks were similar, he would have told Brandon (who would have found it laughable) My guess is that she read something in an old book from the Winterfell library. Knowledge that's now lost as it was burned during Bran's assassination attempt with the Catspaw. I can definitely see Lyanna coming to him to pass her wisdom during another crypt dream (probably in ghost's body 🐺 before he's resurrected) I also believe Daenerys will play a part in him learning the truth as she's the "slayer of lies"
love your work
Public service anouncement that I didn't get notified for this video despite set to "all, permanently, indefinetly, forever" 😤
Yeah I’ve been wondering about that, people havent been seeing my videos since the season is over, like YT decided HotD wasn’t cool anymore
I'm always so excited when you post a new video. I think I'm in love with your channel.
500 pages left of Winds..... or so Ive heard 🖤🤘🐉🔥
Thank you for another theory 🙏looking forward to hear more about this ✌️🔥🐉
Ice and fire conspiracy theory of the alien lizard humanoids aka Tagaryens haha
I love the comic speech bubbles 😄
great video as always
I'm always jamming out to the music 🎶 🎸
4:44 🤣 I love how old Nan is still alive and elderly in like year 1 AC. She’s so old Torrhen Stark probably grew up on her knee listening to stories. I imagine she came to Winterfell one day like five centuries ago and just didn’t leave but she told such good stories the Starks gave her a place to stay and let her watch their kids. Outliving every Lord of Winterfell while she stays the same age… old. That’s my head canon for old ass Nan.
I think it's likely Lyanna knew something about the prophecy, but it also seems possible that Rhaegar used prophecy and destiny to manipulate Lyanna. Not quite as horrible as an abduction or quite as sweet as a consensual elopement. Her being so much younger and less worldly than Rhaegar definitely leaves the opportunity and Rhaegar's desperation could be a strong motive as well. Plus the white walker-esque kings gaurd at the tower of joy were likely not defending Lyanna from Ned, her own brother, but rather preventing Lyanna from leaving following the conception of Jon
Yes there’s a possibility it’s a little darker in that way. We will have to see
That’s an awesome prediction. But that’s doesn’t sound like Rhaegar, who was an honorable knight according to the books.
But if Lyanna and Rhaegar married, that would make Lyanna a queen. I also imagine Robert Baratheon wrath, was enough to keep her in the tower.
I imagine those kingsguard would be sword to her.
@@polishherowitoldpilecki5521 I never considered Robert sending Lyanna there like Henry the VIII with ?Catherine of Aragorn?(his spanish wife locked in the tower). I do know Lyanna wore Rhaegar’s armor (like Renly’s ghost), Robert Azor Ahai’d pregnant Lyanna in the chest with his hammer, Lyanna went into the Trident to be pulled out by a recently revived Rhaegar (like Beric and Jon Snow’s other mom Cat), and Lyanba was given a second life killing Rhaegar. I knew young Beric, either fostered with Renly or as the acting Marcher lord, led Ned to the tower; hence his later marriage betrothal and selection as the “king’s justice” by Ned (also the lightning in the Tower Tarot card as the Lightning Lord). But I all ways thought Richard Lonmouth (the “Thoros” who brought back Rhaegar and pulled Lyanna out the Trident) was the one who led Lyanna to the Tower of Joy (a nunnery: either a Sept or a whorehouse, maybe both like those historical nuns mentioned in the second Assassins’ Creed game). Never considered Robert capturing her and sending her there himself.
This would explain why Ned went to Storm’s End , perhaps looking for Robert with Lyanna, and accidentally starting the rumors about Ashara and him at Renly’s gossiping court; since Ashara went there too with baby Daenerys, likely born at sea.
@@polishherowitoldpilecki5521 that would make lyanna a princess
&that won't make rhaegar bad in my eyes at least it wasn't rape or forcing her to obey or any other disgusting things... Just at least he most likely told her about the prophecy & maybe used his charm to make lyanna agree with him & make ice & fire baby...
Love the Hell Purgatory with the beautiful fire music and the tragic Ice Maiden ❤️🩸🐉🔥
Omg I had no idea that was you playing bass! 😊
Hey, just want to say that I really enjoy your work although I haven't even read the books. Seeing a chill guy make all these connections (particularly with historical and real-world religious analogues) is really interesting and you structure your material really well.
Thanks for your (and Cleo's) work.
Take care.
I have wanted your opinion on this for so long! I was trying to find ways to get your opinion on Rhaegar & I finally have it. You dont realise how I feel right now! I listen to your views & predictions on every aspect of this world every single night as I go to sleep.
My life is my family, my football team & ASOIAF!
I love Rhaegar passionately!
Me & my partner are having a baby, finding out the sex within the next 5 weeks & if he is a boy, we are calling him Rhaegar.
I have all the same outcomes about Rhaegar, his decisions & who he truly was to hear it from you solidifies it for me. I have believed & stood by everything you have just said for so long!!!
I am a big big of yours & I love your work.
You won't understand how happy this has made me & I thank you ❤
I absolutely love your videos! 👊😎🍻
Thank you for another insightful video. I definitely like the idea of ghost Lyanna talking to Jon.
Rhaegar definitely has some Orpheus symbolism surrounding him
I was just going to bring up Jaeharys’ second royal progress where he showed up late to Winterfell and GQA was already there with Alaric Stark.
You’d have to assume that Aenys 1 told his sons about the Prophecy of Ice and Fire which is kind of a stretch- and it came off like the only reason Lord Aleric gave King Jaeharys the time of day was cuz of GQA.
The only thing you could really say is GQA also knew the prophecy and that’s why she urged to give the extra farmlands to the Night’s Watch. But I just think the Queen was smart and had a generous heart. Also she was probably spooked by the dragon refusing to cross the wall which also informed her to fund the Night’s Watch.
Those are much easier assumptions than Aenys assuming Maegor would slaughter his sons so he better tell all of them… AND they took it seriously
actually there's a bit more to Alysanne at the Wall but that will be in my next vid
loved it x thank you x
Thanks for the video ❤
Yey! Happy day! New LML video!!!
Thinking about Rhaegar dying at such a prophetically laden spot. I wonder if he had like an inverse Jojen response. "Ah my life's still too caught up in prophecy. There's *no way* this is the day I die!"
Alternatively, since we know he no longer thinks he's the guy maybe he's at peace and sees it coming. "Oh, the place I'm gonna meet the Demon in the field is at Prophecy Crossing? Welp, I guess I had a good run."
I dunno I mean I kinda think it's more compelling if Lyanna and Rhaegar just fell in love, and Lyanna simply asked Ned to promise her to keep Jon safe, and the Song of Ice and Fire is a song that Rhaegar wrote for Lyanna, without any of them knowing they were fulfilling prophecy. I like that idea. Like maybe Aegon's prophecy was lost in the Dance, that's a fun irony to me.
And I get that there's a bit of evidence to suggest otherwise in Rhaegar's lines in Dany's vision, but I just think that if the characters in the story know that much about it it's sorta breaking the fourth wall and just a lot less interesting than the story just playing out as prophesied with two people falling in love for no other reason than that they're attracted to each other, and without knowing what it meant for the fate of the world.
Love the topic.
There's no way Ned knew about the Prophecy from the Targaryen side. Otherwise he would have tried his hardest to place Jon in the Iron Throne instead of letting him rot at the Wall as it did state the a Targaryen must sit in the Iron Throne to unite the 7 Kingdoms. Ned didn't even bother to give the courtesy to tell Jon who his mother or his father was before he went to the Wall. His decision ensured that when he does finally tell Jon of his lineage Jon won't be able to reclaim his birthright anymore. In a sense Ned was ensuring his Fat friend's rule won't be challenged.
Although I mostly agree, couple points.
You’re leaving out the possibility that Ned knew the prophecy and didn’t believe it, later seeing Jon’s decision as fate and possibly the prophecy coming into fruition, there by slightly changing Ned’s mind.
Ned would be less worried about “challenged” per se, rather one killing the other; and Robert’s good at that… Either way Ned loses someone he loves. This is part of Quaithe’s (aka Ashara aka Daenerys’ mother’s) plot, Quaithe knows Daenerys’ quest for the throne is gained by the death of Daenerys’ nephew(s), one(actually two) being Ned’s nephews.
Love this video. Have you ever read about the Greek Orpheus and Eurydice? You just told their story. Harp and all.
How about:
(gender reversed) Oedipus the slayer of the Sphinx and Lies (he thought about himself).
Narcissus and echo (gender reversed)
“Sun rising…..” from Tantalus with the baking children into food.
“Storm of Spears, Feast of Carrion “
Theseus killing the white “Bore”(Boar), leaving the Labyrinth maze, returning home disguised to confront the king, marrying an Amazon who dies in childbirth and returns for a second life consumed by rage and stabbed in the back by Theseus.
@Mistermaestersir Thomas Of course, all of that and sp much more. I just think Orpheus and Eurydice was the clear inspiration for Rhaegar and Lyanna's story.
@@Ash.Crow.Goddess agreed.
You see Jaqen as Theseus, then? Or someone else?
Also Pandora gotta be in here somewhere, any idea?
The North remembers..
Like your take David Lightbringer
On Lyanna! 🔥❄️
Yes Lyanna and Ned talked about the prophecy and yes she want Aegon(Jon) to follow it, but…
Ned is the guy who blew up the kingdoms to save the “Baratheon” kids from harm similar to Aegon(Jon) defying Stannis to save a wilding child. A Stark woman talking to a Stark man wouldn’t need a promise to protect a kid much less her son and his nephew. (If she had a daughter… well that would be a different conversation, might need things said outloud.) Ned probably refers to naming a child; if he did Ned Danye, if he didn’t Aegon(Jon).
I would warn against the narrative that Ned wanted Aegon(Jon) to go to the wall, rather he accepted it as fate when Aegon(Jon) decided to go.
Pretty sure Bobby’s head was only in the noose because he was Ned’s BFF, and Ned was sentenced to death cos his brother fronted but to KL demanding Rhaegars head. Given that Aerys had another son and didn’t trust Rhaegar his reaction is the oddest, perhaps by this point in his crazy he decided the threat from the North was the Starks
@@alexmoes3225 was this a reply to my post, or a RUclips glitch of some sort? The “Baratheon“ kids I was talking about were Joffery, Marcella, and Tommen.
Maybe over the years, whatever Aegon told Torrhen simply just became : There must always be a Stark in Winterfell.
I love this series!
❤️ the Deftones shirt!!!
Hey, David. I love your videos. esp. re: the main story. (Not too crazy about Fire & Blood, TBH.)
While I believe that the simplest explanation is the best explanation re: Jon's parentage (i.e., R + L = J), I still can't shake off the fact that Jon has never had a Dragon Dream-which is common among characters with dragon blood. Even Tyrion and Shireen have them.
Do you have a video where you address this argument?
He saw “himself” (actually his brother… long story) leading an army of undead and dragons, I believe. I do think it’s also likely that Targaryen’s and their “blood” count as dragons in this sense.
Start the morning off with a little Lightbringer!!
Gotta go Momma Bear for a sec - Rhaegar's grown and married ass using fairytales and legends to get an underaged Lyanna to run off with him just makes the whole scenario more gross imo. What teenage girl wouldnt run off with the hot prince who's spittin' that let-me-hump-you-to -save -the-world game? I dont really characterize any of Lyannas behavior as actual "choosing/choices." She was a child, her level of genuine understanding and consent is real iffy for me. And her life was such a tragedy after Rhaegar became involved. She was set to die alone in a tower, if Ned hadnt gotten there in just enough time to hold her while she died. How long was she stuck in Dorne away from her family? What kind of medical care did she get? Was her pregancy difficult? We dont know. Rhaegars primary interest in her was her womb. Everything else was incidental. Its such a layered, well executed story line. I hope we get more from Lyanna's (and Elia's) perspective....but Rhaegar can kiss my ass.
i mean if you decide to assume Rhaegar's motivation was to get Lyanna in the sheets and wasn't really concerned about prophecy, then you'd be right, but that's pretty obviously not the story George wrote is it? you're bringing modern ideas of who's a child and not into a medeival fantasy, and that doesn't hold. Lyanna was wise enough to see Robert for who he was, to do the entire Knight of the Laughing Tree thing... she wasn't some shrinking violet manipulated by a skeezy singer. That's honestly a weird, terminally online way to interpret it IMO
i mean freaking Ned knows she was 't "kidnapped" or "raped". It was some mixture of love and prophecy and a sense of destiny
BURNING ... PUN TOTALLY INTENDED. we need a Reading Rhaegar about all this... 🐉🐉🐉🐉
Nice Craig Mac reference 🤣🤣🤣
I like the idea that the 7 helps are split between ice and fire, with representing both. As ice and fire typically combine to make water, I think this lends credence to the recurring theme of water magic and supports the ideology of people like the Iron Born who places great emphasis on water and the sea.
Are there still people denying R+L=J? OMG do people still think its Ashara Dayne? I mean no one can be blind enough to think it's the fisherman's daughter right? RIGHT?!?
Tinfoil knows no bounds...
they probably do it because they like Ashara a lot
@@Ar1AnX1x I don't know. the evidence is just right out there now. It was in the show, and Dave and Dan quite straightforwardly said that its GRRM confirmed. 5G is just con-men exploiting ignorant people's fear of new technology. But what could possibly motivate you to oppose a book plot theory with such stubbornness? Like where are the stakes for these people?
I love this story
People do think that Ashara Dayne is Jon's mother but I don't. If that were the case Ned wouldn't have a reason to keep it such a big secret.
Where ice and fire meet, lovers may walk in the mist
Defttones....inthe House of the Flies.......I put my faith in you......Did Lyanna put her faith in Ned?
Rhaegar definitely put his faith in Lyanna
over and over again
Love the shirt, mans got taste.🤘
I like to think the conversation between Aegon and Torrhen went a little like "Hey, let's not fight! I have had a prophetic dream about ice zombies coming over a huge wall!" "Yeah, we know, we've been building up an undead army in our crypts for 8000 years... I like your giant hell-lizards. let's be friends"
Great video, but one question, and I don't mean this as an insult I'm just curious, were you high while recording this? Because you sounded a little high and the whole ramble leading up to 14:15 just further enforces my suspicion.
I use cannabis basically 24/7 for my ADHD. I’m always a little stoned, that’s just my baseline. Was I especially stoned for this one? Maybe, maybe. The ice and fire he’ll rant was just supposed to be me making fun of myself for being a stoner basically
@@DavidLightbringer I envy you. I live in a place where it's still illegal.
Dracarys 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥