Why Are There So Many Elf Subraces?
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- Опубликовано: 6 дек 2023
- High elf. Wood elf. Dark elf. Sea elf. Eladrin. On and on the elven subraces go. In this video, I embark on a quest to discover why elves in D&D have a seemingly endless amount of subraces. This question is larger than just Dungeons & Dragons, it connects to so many RPGs and fantasy novels, and even to history long past. From the earliest days of D&D, through the current 5e, both official settings and homebrew are brimming with all kinds of elves. Why is that?
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Thank you everyone who has pointed out that drow actually originated in the Greyhawk setting (1e). Though the Menzoberranzan drow who worship Lolth (the most popular variety we all know nowadays) did originate in Forgotten Realms.
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P.S. Accepting this quest may risk your very life & it's death. Only choice affects transcendence.
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Against the giants - good times
While the Forgotten Realms did popularize the drow as being more matriarchal, the drow worshiping Lolth and being led by priestesses still originated from Greyhawk, as detailed in the Vault of the Drow adventure published in 1978. Erelhei-Cinlu, the primary location in the Vault of the Drow, predates Menzoberranzan’s introduction in D&D by ten years.
@@MrDe4dGuy34Yeah, the Drow were already pretty matriarchal in Greyhawk.
The Greyhawk GDQ series introduces the Lolth-worshiping Drow that everyone is familiar with. The rest of their pantheon started with Greyhawk as well, Kiaransalee, Vhaerun etc. Menzoberanzan is indeed original to the Forgotten Realms, which had become TSR's core campaign world as they tried to kill off Greyhawk. Pretty much every idea core to the D&D experience that originated in Greyhawk or Mystara found its way into the Realms at one point. That's why it's a convoluted kitchen sink mess to this day.
"The only way to not offend anyone at all is to have no argument, no position, no conviction. Do not think, just shut your mind off, and go sleepwalking blindly into the shifting wings" Dam, quote of the year!
Came just to comment this. But made it into a poem:
Just remember my brave companions,
the only way not to offend
anyone at all is to have
no argument,
no position,
no conviction.
Just shut your mind off and
go sleepwalking into
the shifting winds.
When you give a vanilla elf a leaf stone they evolve into a wild elf
And if you hit a vanilla elf with a brick you could get a ghost elf
What if you get max friendship before they level up?
@@dirtywhitellama then you get the rare elf gf wich has a chance to evolve into your own legendary elf waifu if you level it up to it's max level how ever doing so requires you to get a ring and be willing to settle down.
(Side note from the developers: kids are optional) lol
And when you give a vanilla elf a water stone, they evolve into a sea elf.
I do feel like the tendency for elves to be xenophobic even amongst themselves leading into further subdivisions shouldn't be understated, a lot of the sub races that exist in Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance were definitely influenced by this.
For me the half-elf is the ever-wanderer. Welcomed everywhere but nowhere at home.
Yes! Well put. That's part of the reason I relate to the half-elf.
Q: Why do elfs have pointy ears?
A: There has to be some point to elfs.
This is why I love Elder Scrolls' answer to elves, each one has their specific reason for being distinct, and some of them aren't even elves in the traditional fantasy sense, like Orsimer (Orcs) and the extinct Dwemer (Dwarves). The Dunmer especially, have an incredibly rich lore and unique identity in Elder Scrolls. The Bretons are also the closest thing to a Half-Elf in ES, but are their own distinct race rather than being a "half breed."
same here and elder scrolls alongside with the lore for elves I ran into is why I mixed alot of elves I like together to mix things up, like hell elves of my world are HEAVILY inspired by the Bosmer.
If you are wanting a lore reason from D&D it would be due to the fact that Corellon was originally a got with an immutable form, with the elves being born from his spilled blood and as a result they too were immutable. The elves were tricked by Lolth to choose a permanent form which also caused Corellon to lose the gift of immutably, so the elves chose their permanent forms based on where they were happiest to be adapted to the environment or attribute they love i.e. wood elves loving wooded areas or high elves love of magic.
I think you mean mutable, not immutable.
Being chaos aligned and sharing an inate connection to magic means that the Elves adapt and change to their environments much faster than others
It’s weird conceptualizing Elves as chaos-aligned when their societies are so traditional and orderly.
@@mitchryan257I like to think of it more like they're more closely aligned with the natural order than any other race. Nature itself is chaos, but there is an order to that chaos. The law of the jungle if you will. Much the same way dwarves lean to law and order due to their affinity for the rigid, unyielding stone.
@@ShadowDragonXXI that is an interesting interpretation. I may have to stew on it.
Agree. Environment changes elves, humans change their environment.
@@ShadowDragonXXI How I see it, law is tradition and order for their own sake, those deemed lawful tend to be collectivist, they conform to the ways of their people and let themselves be restrained by the rules of society so that said society can be stable and everyone can either benefit (LG), exist (LN), or suffer (LE) equally.
Chaos has its own traditions and order of a sort, but said traditions are individualistic in nature and appeal to peoples' rights and freedoms, encouraging people to do what they want and assuming that things will work out. Any rules that exist are more likely to be suggestions on how not to mess things up but won't be strict on enforcement, the natural consequences of one's mistakes are usually adequate to not require additional punishments.
Also, IMO all sapient beings in D&D have some mix of chaos/law/evil/good. Hence individuals of all mortal races might personally lean in any one direction but have the free will to act how they choose, and how any societies might lean heavily towards law or chaos but contain enough of both for things to balance out in their own way. Even planar beings like angels/demons/devils have some faintest sparks of that which they oppose, thus why former angels like Asmodeus and Zariel can fall to devilhood, or certain sources suggest that Grazz't was formerly a devil before being corrupted by chaos.
I typically play Dwarves. I’ve played so many dwarves. But elves are my second favorite.
My head canon is that they’re the Eevee of the fantasty world. Part of their gift is being able to merge with their natural surroundings
"Eevee of the fantasy world"
That analogy is even better coming from someone with a GSC Gengar pfp.
I mean, they're both popular and adaptable, though sea and aquatic elves don't seem as popular as Vaporeon.
@@Jw87563 at this point I don’t know if anything is more popular than vaporeon. It is the ideal partner, after all
@@Dagglestone Yeah, Gardevoir and Lopunny are overrated.
To be fair, D&D draws from Tolkien, which himself drew from Norse mythology; and in Norse mythology, there are multiple different kinds of elf.
That is a fair point. So fair in fact, that I talked about it in this very video.
@@esperthebard Lmao
Though uh.. you made mention of Tolkien's work, but I elaborated on it by pointing out the primary source from which he drew also did this sorta thing with elves.
From my knowledge there are Light Elves who live above ground and Dark Elves who live below ground in Norse mythology.
"norse mythology" is a collection of tales from different regions (sweden, norway, denmark, and the neighboring regions they warred with and enslaved). It is also well known that Snorri Sturluson borrowed from the greeks and romanized europeans to create a balance in pantheons and other words with vague meaning like dwarf, elf, and troll. These things meant a great deal of different things to these different peoples. It is NOT that there are different elves, it's that different peoples envisioned and defined them differently.
@@mitchryan257they should've said Nordic folklore.
Cause then you got the light elves, dark elves, fairies (alfer), and fog swelling elves that kill horny men, and hill dwelling elves that lure horny men underground to die, and dream visiting elves that just lure horny men very far away for be with them till they die, whilst stealing their minds away and probably some other kinds of elves too.
Because Elf and Troll are the catch-all terms for various faerie-folk in Nordic and Germanic cultures. Everything is an elf or a troll.
As someone who like elves i would love if the dwarves would receive the same amount of attention and love, because after i saw their lore and some of their interactions in different videogames, rpgs ecc. They have lot of unexpressed potential.
Well there are Chaos Dwarves
One of my favorite takes on dwarves is in an old and janky game called arcanum. The central tension of the setting is that technology and magic don't mix well, and dwarves are (among other things) a race naturally inclined towards technology, but they have the long enough lifespan to recognize that they need to make and distribute advancements carefully to not unbalance the world. The humans in the setting are not as careful, and so when they get ahold of certain secrets, they basically kick off the industrial revolution in a world filled with incredible magic, and magic and technology start competing and wreaking havoc on each-other.
House Elf: that's plagiarism
Field Elf: hold on now
There is also something else: Elves have a very strong connection to the individual environment. Humans are always humans, dwarves and orcs always play the stereotypes; but eleves, as an ancient and nature bond race, "change with the seasons".
Most of the "subraces" are just elves living in a certain biome. Wood, sea, snow, and desert for example. If you now include the "standart" (high) and "evil" (dark) elves, we already have 6 subraces that can be present in any setting.
"Dark" usually tend to belong to the "Underground" biome, at least in D&D influenced properties. So it's really just the "standard" (high) who are biomeless. Unless you consider them plains or city elves.
I have 2 Dwarven Characters I created and they aren't complete Stereotypes.
As someone new to BG3 and the DND universe itself I asked this immediately
My own take on this is that elves are highly resistance to mutations and as such evolution. As such elves subraces are created when a group of elves ends up in an environment ill suited for them. Eventually some of their deities will take pity of them and over the span of only a few generations adapt them for their new environment.
This can lead of two different group of elves living in the same type of environment but still be different from each other due to their adaption being done on two different occasions, possibly from different sources. As such you could have "Snow elves" and some other arctic elves perhaps called "Frost elves".
Love this post: elfs evolve slowly so gods make them evolve fast.
What piece of lore gave you this thought that elves would be like this over, for example, gnomes which also have long lifespans? We have forest gnomes, rock gnomes and deep gnomes. So why not sun gnomes or moon gnomes? Or desert gnomes? Heck, dwarves also have always had longer lifespans too. Somehow the extra 200-300 years is making a difference generationally?
@@cloudstone123It is my own idea of an explanation for why there are a gazillion of elven races around. This could largely be avoided if elves of the same race living separately from each other would develop distinctly different cultures.
I think your friend is right about elves...or at least that's the same answer I came up with: Elves are just "better" people but we all have different views on what makes a person better so we need lots of Elves.
My impressions on elves and their wide spread playability by a large percentage of D&D players is that they are the closest to a human but have darkvision, and other benefits that are not available to a human. Playing dwarf, gnome, halfling for example you play a diminutive race. I've always leaned towards elf/subraces because of this suggestive benefit it provides whether as a Ranger, Magic-User, cleric, Thief, etc. the elf provides adaptability and versatility to fit most rolls well.
Elves are my favorite Races primarily because of the massive lifespan potential. To me it feels illogical that in a world of Fantasy/Magic yet your natural lifespan potential is less then a century...like WTF?! Even in real life we as Humans can potentially live over 100 yrs, in fact there are some who even in their 80s are fairly spry and healthy! So where is the logic in a Magical Multiverse your lifespan being less/more difficult then real life potential?!!
Why aren’t there more shark races? Imagine a grotesque goblin Shark warlock going into the abyssal depths to seek out all forms of Eldritch abomination? Or a wobbegong shapeshifter?
Hell there are orcs breeding with every other race why don’t we have more specific hybrids?
Cuz they eat the other person?
Tbh I like how elves/Eldar are handled in Warhammer Fantasy/40k they're powerful, inherently psychic/magical beings, but they're creatures of such extreme passions that without hundreds of years of discipline, they tend to be easily driven purely by emotion and fancy. I think its the reason why Warhammer hasn't had to make a billion elf subtypes, their elves are in fact drivers of conflict and are expressly imperfect
Indeed, as an ancient people they fractured and developed different cultures in response to the blandness of their origins. Drukari became even more decadent than their ancestors, exodites sought nature and less tech, and the craftworlders were explorers and specialists of great variety. Their empire's collapse forced a doubling down and separation that has since become akin to speciation, but was entirely of cultural consequence.
@@kevinsmith9013in my home-brew setting I've basically incorporated 40k elves, added the fantasy dark elves as a kingdom of high elves, but also made elves be able to adapt to any environment, essentially making exodite elves all have similar cultures but conpletley different ways of life and morphologies due to their different environments.
Theory, none of them are subraces, they are all the same race of elf. That's just how they see each other. Just like humans.
Dude. The subrace High elf has subraces. Moon and sun. It’s wild 🧐
You're not allowed to make subraces of humans for racism reasons, so since Elves are basically just humans with pointy ears, any subrace idea you have for humans can just be an Elf instead.
Recent finder of your character and I have to say you set the standard in energy and presentation. Really enjoying the channel man, keep up the awesome work
Also, I agree with the observation about elves being the typical self-insert, that for sure committed to the variety of the elf subraces.
"Lots of breadth, little depth." I totally agree here. One of the best decisions I made as a DM was to reduce elf subraces to wood, high, and dark and then went into developing my own lore for them (in my setting they're immortal but their memories are not, and so they're constantly chasing a nostalgic feeling of what once was).
My setting is a homebrew midgard, so when my elf player first entered into a small viking town the people would approach her and ask for blessings. They'd offer her butter and goosefat. She decided to diguise herself in human areas afterwards 😂.
Elves in my setting are rare, thanks in part because they're interlopers from Alfhiemr or Svartlehiemr. Most humans who see an elf will react with awe or fear, and humans from the south see them as witches or demons. In fact, any fey creature is generally called an elf because these folks see them so rarely.
Also, really glad your channel popped in my thread. I remember listening to your creepy dungeon music and stuff way back in 16. Glad you're still around.
In my world, all the elven subraces are different but a part of the same overall group called the exodites. Like wood elves and snow elves have different ways of life and morphologies due to where they live, bur only slightly different cultures. I feel like this removes the need for trying to create 400 different elven cultures and instead they all follow the same general one with minor differences, allowing for focus and depth in their culture to be created. This is because they broke off from the original elven civilisation long ago, successfully predicting that they would cause their own apocalyptic fall to their empire.
High elves and dark elves are also the same, but the dark elves engage in decadence to keep their souls alive, while high elves use magical stones that act similarly to lich phylactories, but do not create a new body for the soul upon death. Drow are different to elves entirely, but were created by Lolth using elven souls. Drow often come into conflict with the cave elves, and the cave elves eventually become genocided in my world due to this.
So there are the exodite elves (ascetic nature elves, some live with in cities with other races), high elves (the original elves), dark elves (alao original elves but evil), and drow.
@@jarroddt I love it! The idea of grouping the subraces into greater races is a good idea. I like the 40k flavor too!
@ericjensen7580 yes wh40k and fantasy were big inspirations for my elves. I love the typical fantasy elves but also wanted to make them alien and more distinct from humans while also still clearly elves. I've tried to do the same with other races.
Like orcs for example are a race of beings forged by the Forerunners using the corpses of the angels of the God of War, dwarves are insectoid and beetle like but still very clearly dwarves, etc
I personally would h**e your games then.
Ya know, this was a really intriguing topic. I never considered why there were so many.
Espers always coming through with the best Tunes 🤘🏼, Great synopsis on the Elf race.
I kinda figure that Elves are magically adaptive, which causes them to adapt to their Environments more other races. There is a lesser element with other races. Like Azer = Dwarf + Fire or Forest Gnomes = Gnome +forest.
Best elf? Dead elf.
YOU FORGOT CHRISTMAS ELVES 🎄
I think my favorite reason for many types of elves is in my own worldbuilding project Oranus. The elves there had a large multi-planar empire that fell under mysterious circumstances and now the elves are scattered and different due to the planar magic warping their physiology.
The Loading Crew made a Sand Elf (Elf + Desert)
No Stu, not more Elves! lol. Y’know what, maybe we should limit Elves to High Elves (Sun/Moon), Dark Elves, and change Wood Elves to “Nature Elves” so people don’t just think of them as limited to woodlands.
When our bard started to list off the elf races, I was smiling, until he kept going on... and on... and still on...!
Very inciteful. Thank you!
I'm convinced you made most of those elf subraces up
Elfquest really explored the heck out of this issue.
Wow, amazing. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
I never quite understood, why the Drow are my favourite type of elf. After watching this video, I understand why. They are the only type of elf with built-in conflict and not just boring perfect creatures.
My favorite elves are the homebrew 5e variants I found on Wiki, who are possibly the descendants of the high elves in the 2e module Firestorm Peak. Aberrant elves mutated by the Far Realm - the Alloprax. I love the Lovecraftian "beauty in their otherworldly horror" vibe.
Supernatural selection. The magical nature and long lives of elves allows them to adapt individually to new biomes, giving rise to subspecies.
Because the concept of "elves" in our imagination is so multi-faceted and intertwined with ideas like wood and water spirits that fiction authors were able to draw out multiple veins of characterization when they put them into their fictional works?
In some of my own settings I have chosen to trim down the number of elves available but in general I feel like its not innately a bad thing that there are quite a few variants of elves from an out of context perspective, sometimes what people are looking for when they want to make a character or culture is something they know and quite like with a new twist. The dwarf could be quite a good platform for that but I feel like in 5e at least they loaded quite a lot of cultural features onto the base dwarf sub race which might have been better attached to a sub-race like mountain dwarf, thus making it easier to make dwarf sub-races with a distinct identity.
1:58 "Setting: core D&D (Originally Forgotten Realms)"
Like literally everything else core D&D you associate with the Realms, they're actually originally Greyhawk.
I like the verirty of elves but I tend to smash them all back together so each sub race is not a monoculture. Take all the pale, moon, grey elf sub races and make them one with diffrent sub cultures that you can have in one area. Makes for a more interesting nation. I did this with my dark elves, each house was dark elves from another setting.
I'm working on my homebrew setting and coming up with an in-universe reason why so many different races exist. For elves, I've decided that early in the world's history, there was a great war between the gods. One god, Featha Teathn, was decapitated by an evil god and every drop of blood that fell to the ground became an elf. Those that fell into forests became wood elves, those that fell onto grasslands became high elves, those that fell onto mountains became dark elves and so on. I decided to get rid of sea elves and just stick with merfolk and tritons just to cut down on all the lore I'd need to write.
I say to those that found the question offensive " toughen up princess "
I think the primary thing is that in being the first 'tied to nature' fantasy race they have become the defacto "Biome-Man", and this makes it easy to put them in whenever you want a regional race of wise people connected to that biome. After a while this becomes a little self perpetuating, 'Sure I could come up with something unique... But... Would I be making ;basically elves'? and if thats what I'm making maybe I should just make elves."
I think we're getting a little out of that though. Genasi especially offer a very distinct 'elemental touch' for high fantasy that removes the need for elves to be the Biome-Man, and so do Goliath acting as foundlings for different giant types as well.
Humans in D&D do have something of a subspecies called the Ulvur, who are partly wolf and sometimes shapeshift.
Dwarves have subraces but they are really just different places they live - mountain dwarf, hill dwarf, deep dwarf, gully dwarf, valley dwarf
Love playing half-elves and humans, never played a "full elf" ever though... ;)
I don’t know which race I relate to most. But I always preferred the more monstrous races. That’s mainly because I liked that they actually looked like different races rather than humans with extra steps.
Another great video Esper. Thank you
Thanks! Hopefully you'll look into Monstrous Heroes. What you described is part of the reason I'm making the book, so we can have some truly monstrous options for characters.
@@esperthebard That sounds great. I’ll definitely check it out.
Much agreed with your point of ‘attractive self insert’ depiction.
In my first few campaigns I warned players that elves (particularly half elves) would be heavily discriminated by the rest of the world. I think this made my players make more sympathetic and interesting PCs.
Regardless, nice work per usual! Thank you for the video
In 5e I am a Human variant main. Innate magic and darkvision is fun but it can’t beat literally inserting just “me but I’m great with crossbows” into the game.
Variant human is the king of 5e races 👑
Are you looking for the meta answer or the in lore answer? Meta is just because elves are attractive and people wanna be hot but unique. Lore I'm pretty sure elves have a lot of history where deities directly influenced elves either by changing them with magic or sending them to different planes of existences or terrains and the elves evolved over hundred of years.
I fix this problem in my homebrew setting by making Humans, Gnomes, Halflings, and all of the elven subraces all share a common ancestor in the ancient High Elves. Each of them is technically a “subrace” of elf but have dramatically different appearances and stats because they have diverged evolutionarily enough to be considered their own separate species. Half-elves tend to share more characteristics with their “non-elf” parent as they generally have more dominant traits, this also explains why the elves in my world tend to be isolationist and elitist as they view mixing with the other species as diluting their “pure” high elven blood.
Elves have no opportunity cost. They can be magical, beautiful, immortal, and strong without sacrificing anything. If you want to play a dwarf, you'll be strong but short. Play an orc, you'll be strong but scary. Most other races have a some trade off or other consideration for the benefits of a race vs the appearance, traits, or even just expectations of the race.
A new elf subrace is created every time some 4 century old teenager gets rebellious and tired of whatever subrace they're currently part of and convince all their friends to go be something else instead.
In a homebrew setting I play, elves are descendants of an ancient race that is, itself, descendants of fey. Said race provoked an apocalypse, and survivors of them made pacts (probably not the best way to explain it) with either gods or fey, getting biologically changed as a result. Youan-ti and goblins are also elves because why. Also, humans and wood elves are basically mixed. There are not SO many of them though.
I personally like high elves in that particular setting, but it's mostly related to their lore and the fact that I can stick my technomancy fantasies to it without them being completely out of place.
Elves: the wheel that has been re-invented so many times there's even a trailer park version of them.
This is why I want to be a hobbi-I mean halfling. Sure I can aspire to lofty stuff like fancy dresses and fine dining, but at the end of the day I prefer the simple comforts of a home-cooked meal and cozy sweater.
While not strictly called elves, the Melnibonéans from Michael Moorcock's Elric series are another great example of what would happen if an elf-like race existed in a world: bored, powerful, hedonistic and a danger to all surrounding lands. They're a personal favourite of mine, they're basically dark elves but above ground with big boats and dragons :D
And for myself, if I include elves in my world, I usually go for the multiple types likely because they did have a big empire and spread across the world. I try to restrict myself to the high, wild and dark variety, usually do to an internal struggle similar to what happened in Warhammer Fantasy. They're usually a combination of aloof, having superiority complexes, isolationist or meddlesome natures or are mysterious to point of being mythical. Gotta have those flaws to drive conflict!
Ok here is a question. We have two animal companions. The two of which are heavily favoured in anthropomorphic representations. Yet there are only two (?) felinoid races and no caninoid races in the base DnD game currently.
It seems like a bit of a hole in the menu of character options. But yeah sure let’s offer a dizzying array of boring elf subraces. It’s like picking a flavour instead of building a sundae. Each has its place but maybe none of exhaustive list of flavours have sprinkles.
Homebrew! The way we make DnD ours.
I'd say the reason that makes most sense to me is that elves are distinct from humans, being either immortal or having longevity, having some sort of natural powers or abilities etc. but they're still familiar enough in appearance, culture etc. I've seen a lot of players that don't wanna play a "basic" human, but they still want their characters to be a somewhat representation of themselves, so they go with elves as they're somewhat "better" humans or "super" humans. From that point, people start adding elements to customize their Elf "skin", which ends up creating more elf subraces in the process.
Another big influence on this might be Tolkien (as usual). If you go beyond LotR books and dive into The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales etc. Elves were the greatest characters in Middle-Earth's History. The greatest heroes, the greatest Kings, greatest warriors and so on. The're kinda like the Greek heroes and demi-gods, Distant but close enough.
ELVES ARE MY FAVORITE!!!!! I created 12 different lvl 1 characters in case I found a group to play with. Of those characters: 7 are Elves, 2 are Dwarves, 2 are Gnomes, 1 is a custom Race Half-Elf Half-Giant.
Additionally, none of my characters are proper "stereotypes".
What's more, the reason for so many varieties of Elves is because they are the best/most awesome. My main reasons for that is: 750 YEAR POTENTIAL LIFESPAN/NEAR ETERNAL YOUTH!!! In fact 1 of my Elven Characters is a Druid which means eventually (if I can find a group) she will have 7,500 year potential lifespan! Yet another of my Elven Characters is an Undying Warlock which also eventually can get 7,500 year lifespan potential+ other benefits!!!
FINALLY, you should check out the Christopher Paolini Inheritance Series of books. It's not a series related to D&D, Magic the Gathering, or Dragonlance. But is a great Fantasy series with an interesting explanation for it's Elves as well as other great things.
Not just northern Europe. In Spain and Portugal, they are called "duende" and the fae were everywhere. And yes, there are many different types of them.
I got another question
Why in every setting dwarfs are the same thing? When I realised that mostly in every setting dwarfs are small (not so small like gnomes) guys with beards, who like mining, drinking and hating elves. Unique dwarfs I only saw druegar, dwarfs in Conquest and Eberron.
My personal take has always been what you have described. Elves are very often described as being basically the personification of perfection in their looks and in their every action. They always good at everything. This feeds into a psychological failing in ourselves as humans to want to be like that thus creating a deep interest in this race. Who doesn't want to be good at everything especially in a fantasy setting. But as interest, and thus demand, grows on this, the need to branch out happens. After all, how many races in D&D exist that have as many sub races as elves do? The majority of the main races have 3. Heck, even half-elves themselves have multiple sub races for them by bringing forward their elf-half's subrace. This has all led to a bias over the decades that we are often surprised and find it refreshing to see elves not portrayed this way (think city elves in Dragon Age).
Looking at your breakdown of reasons the arguments fail logically because most of them just are extensions of popularity.
Versatility. They adapt to any environment because...? Why don't halflings? Or gnomes? There is nothing in the lore specifically that says talks about elves being any more adaptable to an environment any more than any other race. The versality part comes from the popularity part. Because they were popular the people who write the lore just made more different types thus creating the appearance of versatility.
Longevity. This one fails because Gnomes live 400-500 years. Dwarves are around the 400 mark. So the 200-300 year shortage makes elves more profilic with other races somehow?
Tradition. Again, this one goes back to the first, popularity. They became popular early on so thus creating the tradition.
Now logically, and trying to steal some reality based science, there is no reason many more sub-races/hybrid races can't exist without good reason. Dark Sun did make the Mul which was half dwarf/half human and they made them sterile if I remember correctly. This is something that happens in some animal hybridization. But they really didn't go into it very much and have since instead went with just making different branches of specific species. Why are their no half gnome/half halflings? Or half-dwarf/half gnome? Or hell, half dwarf/half elf?
I feel like they need to open the lore more although they have opened some creativity for it. Personally I have been designing my characters differently. For example, a dwarven air genasi. Genasi are offspring of a mortal race and an elemental genie. Or how about a halfling shifter? They really should open these types of heritage options more which started with the genasi and got a little more formal in Van Richten's Guide with a supernatural twist and then in Tasha's where they allowed for Custom lineage. In reading tieflings I noticed that they are described as being a cross between humans and demons and I have to ask myself, why humans? Why not a half-orc? Or a gnome?
I feel the lore and outlook when it comes to species really needs to shift focus. If they want to do all this elf stuff by having the lore be that they are influenced by certain mystical factors of the cosmos, that's fine, great even. But don't leave the other species behind.
11:35 First... Based rebuttal..
I love in the descriptive lore of the 3.5 Edition Blighter Prestige Class stating that a Blighter needs to burn big chunks of forests every day to keep their pyrokinetic power from being sustained, that its bad if a normal human has this devotion to this power by doing something so awful, but its almost a disaster if an elf would ever do the same, because they live sooo much longer, burning down forests every day of their life...
Over 30 years ago.... a friend introduced me to DnD. He had a thing for Nightcrawler from the X-men. I think he still does. 😞 Anyway he wanted to play an Elf race like Nightcrawler. I hated the idea as I was NOT a fan but we drew it up, agreed on it and the adventures were fun.
We used Con and level as the base for how many times the "Indingo" could teleport per day. Some Indingo were better at it than others. You could roll once per each category in the beginning of player creation. When in their specific homeland, their specific natural woods, they could double the result. And this teleporting was instant, a free action once a round. Even AFTER their normal actions were thru. Even in the middle of a creatures attacks. 😐 Yes, just because they failed initiative. 🙄
01-65 - once per 5 Con/level/100 feet
66-90 - once per 4 Con/level/200
91-96 - once per 3 Con/level/300 (always round down)
97-99 - once per 2 Con/level/400 (additional +1 Dex, Royalty?)
00 - once per 1 Con/level/500 (additional +2 Dex, Elite?)
And the Dex was +4 (potential +6) and they could jump (fall) phenomenal distances. Their modifiers to their AC bonus for Dex were higher but they could never wear any armor. They could spider climb within reason. Of course they had night vision of 120 feet with a similar day time sight penalty of Drow. They had a +1 to hit with long and short sword types bonus like an elf. But their tails were for looks! It seemed too much, too overpowered. It was.
But our adventures were incredible and I wouldn't change a thing. I once chased him around with a Wendigo. He was actually terrified I'm certain.
Where do you get the art you put in the background of your channel, you use so much that it can’t all be commissioned, is there a platform you license it from?
In terms of story telling I caution authors from throwing in so many variation subspecies/races that it overwhelms the reader. It risks the read not caring about minor differences between sub-groups and their eyes glaze over. Tolkien largely held it down to two or three and variations below that were more cultural than taxonomical.
Okay, here's a thought. Elves, are largely shown as being really good at magic, and many settings the ancient civilization that once was, was elvish of some kind. So the elves got to places others couldn't reach, a long long time ago, and then adapted (maybe naturally through millennia but also possibly just beefed up by magic) to said places. Species and humanoid civilizations shape to fit in their environments.
"This is why the elves should be extremanated "
Palina whitestreak probably
"Aquatic elves can't breathe underwater but rather hold their breath for extended periods of time"
So basically they're the Sea elves from the Dollar store.
4E did it right: Wood, Eladrin, Drow. That's it.
I’ve also got a soft spot for half races. Half elves, bretons, etc…
The Fey ancestry is also a factor. Fey are supposed to be mysterious and strange and we often want our elves to be more like that as well.
For the lore in my campaign the reason there are so many types of elves is because they are born of the fay wild and there DNA has traces of fay magic within it leading to many types of elves.
Its also why elves can be born with "unnatural" hair colours such as red, blue, or green.
Reds a natural hair color, the rest nah
@elishafollet5347
I was talking about bright red not ginger or orange.
Man, a lot of folks didn't like you asking that question. Gotta love Reddit.
I think people want a design that is both Iconic yet novel. In order to make sense of these contradictory concepts they choose to twist or vary something existing rather than labeling it as a new entry.
I like the idea of being able to cohabitate with nature without harming the delicade balance between her processes, unlike the dwarf that throw mining waste on rivers and the humans that burn forest for their farms.
Did we not learn anything from the Orc contraversy?
Drows and Warhammer Elves are the kind of Elves I personally enjoy the most, with a little of Warcraft Elves mostly for the looks of the race itself. It's true that a problem with Elves in general is that they lack a defined identity outside of being basically better than others, and this makes them sorta boring even though they're very popular, so the types of Elves that portray them more villainously or deeply flawed are probably the ones that can shine the most in worldbuilding.
Although, that's probably not going to be something that those who just want to roleplay as a pretty elf is going to enjoy particularly.
13:41 I would like encyclopedias. When i get attached to a universe, i like to learn more about it, just popping out new races without deepening the ones who already exists don't interest me.
14:54 But there is also severals races of Dwarves in Middle-Earth like the Sevens Tribes and the Petty Dwarves.
16:40 Depends on the fantasy world, elves are not so advantaged in every domains everywhere like fertility for example.
You make a excelent point and a good analyse. It's a interesting video.
18:58 Ah, that might be why half-elves are so populars too.
Way I see it, there are so many elves because they are popular, but they are popular because it's so easy to take the archetype and do something else with it. They are basically the white haire/alien human with extra steps. They sit in that middle ground of aliens/non human and magical, but also human enough that it's easy to gravitate to them. The prior precedence of their being subraces also helps. After all when you think of dwarves you think of one sort of culture, same with hobbits. But elves? Tolkien had Forest Elves and High Elves. In Norse Myth, which he drew from, there are Light Elves, and Dark Elves. Elf 'flavors' are nothing new.
Then add what your friend said about people wanting self inserts....yeah, this should not be surprising.
I can't speak for everyone, but the last time I played any kind of fantasy roleplaying game, I did choose to play as an elf. Specifically, Dragon Age: Origins as a Dalish elf.
The reason I did this was because, based on what little description it gave me in character creation, it felt like it would be the most likely to be a complete fish out of water in the setting, which would best justify me constantly going around asking everyone to explain even the things about the setting that would otherwise have been considered to belong in the "fucking duh!" category.
Which might also lean into why there are so many elf subraces: Because elves tend to be described as three things: Close to nature, set in their ways, and isolated. So there will always be elves in any given location, but they won't be the same elves that you would find anywhere else. Because elves are not nomadic -- they put their roots down, live there for centuries, and then raise their children to do the same.
You listed a lot of different kinds of elves, but how many would you say you named that can commonly be found in cities? Two: High elves and moon elves -- three if you count the Drow. All the others are either hybrid elves or hermit elves.
Because elves are popular, so writers and designers keep churning them out!
Its why the drow are arguably the most interesting of the elves, because they arent so perfect and aloof, they are all the qualities of elves perverted. If elves are near perfect, the drow take that to a point of superiority etc. Flaws are what make characters interesting.
There are tons of elf sub races because various writers over the 50-odd years of D&D have needed to pad the pages of new published material combined with the popularity of elves.
In my world, Elves are the remnants of a now fallen slaver empire that used magical genetic engineering to adapt themselves to the areas that they are hiding in (this empire's genetic engineering is also the reason why a lot of monsters and werewolves exist). They are excellent at magic and beast taming, but limited in numbers as they are dying out. They have 10-20 generations left before they will die out, and they know it. Due to their former empire treating most other people as unusually clever beasts (and conquering most of the world), they are very badly treated by most longer lived races and not trusted by short lived races. Giants and Dragons are in even worse shape than the elves are, but are less hated because they at least treated their slaves like people.
The slave races were the "iron blooded" races of humans, goblins, and orcs, as well as lizardfolk.
Maybe elves are just easily mutated by magic/events.
Elfs and Goblins are highly adaptable to their environment, thus allowing them to have multiple subcategories for race
Elves always felt like they were made as a race and their gods forgot to finish them.
So with that gap in their soul and being they draw upon their surroundings or an aspect to fill that gap.
It explains why they are long lived as they are drawing for their surroundings or the concept... Why they have trouble breeding because they inherently miss something needed for their children to be born whole or 'whole enough'.
Why there are so many variations of them and why they isolate themselves from even other elves.
They are an incomplete broken race patching up their soul holes from their surroundings and that puts a certain limit on what they can do... And why most of their species seem to copy each other with little variation.
They just come off as 'better' to other people because they seem more in tune with X rather than the truth.
typically I treat elves as being sort of "Specialized Humans". each subrace was created a long time ago to fit a particular environment (wood elves for forests, sea elves for the sea, Drow for the underdark, etc.) a few of the more unique subraces then would be more supernatural and would have been created due to unnatural causes, such as the High Elves being caused due to living near areas where magic would be more focused, and hence being born with innate magical abilities. later on, each would develop their own individual culture and specialization. however, one thing I did absolutely change is that I usually don't make elves some "perfect race" rather I just make it so their highly beautiful and dexterous, along with whatever thing their race specializes in. for example, a high elf most likely will be better at magic than most other elf races, but the high elf won't be as good at stealth and making poisons like the Drow, nor be as good at swimming compared to sea elves.
besides that, in the setting I have, I usually give them other weaknesses. examples being any form of Iron (there is a type of metal with similar properties to iron they can use that can be found in the fey wild), along with usually not having very strong weapons, structures, and armor, which usually causes them to trade with other races like dwarves or humans in order to get better materials, which usually works out fairly well with how beautiful their creations are.
Status via proximity. People see this near perfect being, and they have something they like, maybe an ideal of themselves, thus they make this near perfect thing more like what they like as a means of boosting that thing’s status to that closer to an elf’s.
As someone new to BG3 and the D&D universe, I always asked myself on why the elves are popular. I guess it's because the elves were divided into different subgroup, and have different stereotype, just like us in real life world? 🤔
athe main branch of fey'ri are typically mixing of sun elves with demon to a extent not even the drow mix with demons to that degree. so i honestly think the sun elves are actually have a higher level of evil then even the drow in part given the regular use of super weapon high magic they used against the Ssri-tel-quessir/pre drow dark elves who apparently they fought partly mainly cause the dark elves are the best looking of mortal elves.
you should've also maybe mentioned how the drow are different then dark elves given drow have a curse on them that altered them while they were the Ssri-tel-quessir before the curse least bit of elf lore that should be brought up more often
i think in actual lore the versatility option makes the most sense given they are a type of fey so they are innately somewhat chaotic so their body is more likely to change in regards to certain stimuli then many other mortal races.
also F those people who got offended over fantasy races stop projecting your own insecurities and hidden beliefs onto everyone and everything else.
I've always thought of it that elves don't adapt to their environment, as much as the environment adapts the elves. They're very attuned to and susceptible to magic and magic forces, so with prolonged exposure to the latent energy of their environment they take on that energy and change.
Also they're sexy.