It was a server code bug. The maps would work perfectly in singleplayer, while people's clients would get desynced from the servers when switching cars leading to not being able to finish.
@@waste4245 The cars are a bit different in size. Maybe the back and forth flickering caused the location of the player to be unclear causing the server to 'think' players somehow skipped over the checkpoint
@@RichHeart89 that was also my thought especially with the cars having different dimensions. So if the front of the car is checked when driving through a checkpoint and you transform just in the moment you would hit the checkpoint but the car you transform into is longer than the front of the car already is behind the checkpoint when transformed so never passes it. Just a theory though
two possibilities, that check point is off grid so it could be a slightly different check that has a bug with detecting the transitioning car. second, is that it's because of the wheels, you see in track mania the wheels are what determine weather you cross the finish line. It's clear however that the server and the client see things differently because the finish line gets registered as basically a regular checkpoint
@@gwentarinokripperinolkjdsf683 i’m inclined to think you’re right with the wheels theory. It would work with the stadium car ==> ice car just fine because the ice car’s wheels are *behind* the stadium car, but it sounds plausible that if you transform at *just* the right moment with *just* enough speed, then the wheels may skip the checkpoint’s hitbox due to suddenly being a bit further ahead when going from ice car ==> stadium car
It’s already been revealed what it was. It had nothing to do with distance to checkpoint, but instead the switch itself was causing desync between client side and server side. This meant that EVERY checkpoint after the switch would not detect That’s why this continued to happen in the next COTD after this one, where, for some bizarre reason, despite knowing of the big, Nadeo decided to allow the COTD to be a snow cup again instead of changing it
Servers shouldn't be calculating the time. Servers should be getting times fed to them from the players' devices. Not the first time servers have done dumb things, won't be the last until they make the servers communicate correctly
This is really unfortunate. I feel terrible for the map creator, having this bug kinda ruin the experience for a lot of players doing Cup of the Day :/
My favourite sub-genre of internet comment is people with no experience with game engines, server infrastructure, or even game design, posting their hypothesis on how bugs work based off half baked notions they've heard about in some speed run explanation. Seriously, somebody was saying that it could be because of the car's smaller hitbox meaning that if they go fast enough they go through the checkpoint before the server recognises they've touched it...and have they ever watched a full speed map?
@@tgz39j4ndywmm7 I think hypothesising further is a waste of time and this is well in attach debug and check territory, plenty of possible causes have been named which are worth investigating.
@@tgz39j4ndywmm7 my hypothesis is that I don't pretend to know the details of TMs server structure. I just see explanations that make no sense if you actually thought about it in the context of TrackMania and not Mario.
People are saying checkpoint, but I think its the new car collision and the tick rate. The cars collision is probably so small, the tick you move through the checkpoint, you actually skip getting it due to said collision being so small. Either that or on the single frame during the swap, there is no collision. So you have to get super lucky to go through fast to match the swap.
Would the servers really not be doing ANY interpolation or additional checks? Given how it's all deterministic based on inputs, it should be trivial to check current, previous, and next positions really fast to make sure everything is being properly captured.
I don't think that's the case because the car is going less than 400 speed at that checkpoint, if that was the source of the problem than checkpoints where you go over 800 speed in the stadium car would have the same issue, but instead even the snow car gets properly registred through checkpoints at speed much higher without a problem. And if the car itself isn't the issue, than probably it was really the transformation that was causing the problem. (Also I'm pretty sure the game doesn't rely exclusively on detecting a collision for registring the checkpoints, they prob also run a check on the delta of the car's position to avoid this exact problem that you proposed, otherwise I'm sure there would be many other checkpoints with this bug)
@@JigglesMcRibsit probably would take a LOT MORE computing ressources( which means energy, which means money) to calculate every positions of every players hundreds of time per second, than just time checks trough checkpoints idk how a game like rocket league does that tho, so maybe it's not that impossible but I guess with each server handling a 100 people it would still be harder
@@demiano8605 all cp´s have counted acording to the cp plugin, but the finish did not count for many players, just like on this, but it was sooo many more players...
@@patryki1 Or not all CPs actually counted. Or counted and rolled back. Wasn't it like 35 eliminations in div 1 in first elimination round, because the CPs didn't work right?
As an alpha and beta tester from TM's earliest days I'm so amused watching everybody from the TMN generation get used to the Alpine physics. 😅 I know Desert and Rally are coming but I can't wait for the TMS cars to join back in. Island speed will be stunning, Bay bouncy chaos will be a laugh and watching everybody learn the discipline it takes to manage the Coast car will amuse me no end.🤣
Has to a super sad feeling for the mapper when your map works just fine offline but it brakes completely when it goes online. Probably some kind of race condition or logic flaw on server's end regarding the transformations and checkpoints.
It's a great reminder that no amount of testing something "in the lab" will make it safe to use in the real world. Be it a computer game, drugs, or a superhuman A.I.
They’re unable to set up server feedback to not lag rollback finish times (see the time Wirtual got scammed out of a cup of the day win) they don’t have the ability to change their entire servers feedback response or else they would have done it long ago, unless Ubisoft lends some monster serves this isn’t getting fixed for months if ever
@@n64W you're misunderstanding what he means by rollback and the bug he's referring to does affect peoples times. as in, if you lag your actual time doesn't get sent to the server rather the timer continues until it gets an update from the player.
I want a dual map now, where one split lets you drive the normal car and the other the snow car but both are perfectly timed, so they are equally fast. There was a COTD once with such a concept taking different routes like you wanted to drive ice or not or soemthing like that.
It looks like the transition between cars happens faster in single player mode while online is slower, possibly due to the slight delay introduced while communicating with the servers.
What I think is happening is: Too many car transformations are breaking the servers, so if 5 people transform on one part and the servers are fine and then 30 do it at the same time at one on another checkpoint, it breaks the server.
If this were the case, why on earth would it be happening at that part, and why would it be solved by slowing down? Furthermore, how on earth would the ending work where every car within 2 seconds of eachother are transforming back and forth consistently for the entire duration of the finish. As Wirtual said, there are 2 other sections and the finish where transformations are occuring in or near checkpoints, and also the server continued to make mistakes as player counts dwindled.
I think the bug is the car is blinking in and out and there's a moment where there's no car. if you cross when there's no car you don't cross the cp. it wouldn't also bug if you're super fast and reach the cp before the blink out.
I think it happens when the car is blinking, in these frames the car is not actually there. I think when you cross the checkpoint while the car is blinking away / is not actually there, the checkpoint doesn't count as completed
Maybe I'm imagining it, but it looked like it flickered less or maybe just cycled through it faster during the transitions on your solo run than it did in multiplayer.
looks like when you transform for a split second you are not technicallly there because you blink out...maybe run it full speed but go diagonal...that is the transform for sure.
i really dont like the way the snow car is being introduced with a car switching block. that makes it feel like tons of the new campaign and cotd tracks will have the snow car forced in, and everyone who prefers the stadium car will constantly be worrying that every new track will have a car change block around the next corner
My theory is that the checkpoint was glitching when saving info about your car state when you cross, and writing it to memory. Maybe it couldn't store the state of the car mid-transformation, so it fails to update in memory. Despite seeing the time comparison pop up, it isn't tracked and then the next checkpoint takes it's place in the array, showing a 3 second increase. At the end of the track it checks the number of checkpoints in the array and it doesn't let you finish because it is one short
It could also be the end chekpoint, as there's flickering going on, and respawning mid-air preserves the timing. My guess is that the car switches to non-visible or visible state at the same frame the car hitbox collides with a cp/end hitbox.
I'm having a Mandela moment here. I watched him play a glitched CotD and he didn't finish even once, unable to qualify. Was that a different map? But if so, why did he seem surprised here?
There are plenty of maps that stack checkpoints on top of eachother, and with the many different game modes played online this would deffinitely be known of by now, unless this would be an anti-cheat specific to Cup of the Day and they've never had close checkpoints before (highly doubtful, especially as cut-prevention), then I am very skeptical of this idea.
Would be cool if this got explained publically instead of it being a silent fix, this is an intriguing bug
It was a server code bug. The maps would work perfectly in singleplayer, while people's clients would get desynced from the servers when switching cars leading to not being able to finish.
Sounds like a weird one, maybe upcoming change on the animation itself?
@@waste4245 The cars are a bit different in size. Maybe the back and forth flickering caused the location of the player to be unclear causing the server to 'think' players somehow skipped over the checkpoint
@@RichHeart89 that was also my thought especially with the cars having different dimensions. So if the front of the car is checked when driving through a checkpoint and you transform just in the moment you would hit the checkpoint but the car you transform into is longer than the front of the car already is behind the checkpoint when transformed so never passes it.
Just a theory though
Yesterdays title: Cup of the Day is fixed! No Bugs!
Todays title: The Most Broken Cup of the Day Ever
TM in a nutshell right there
This video was recorded before the other one but uploaded after
Really one of those cup
@@kiefydoinksWhich means they chose two Snow Car tracks of the day in a row despite knowing that it doesn't work?
@@Nitidusprobably just did proper testing of the map, everyone wants maps with the new features so it helps with player count
That's such a weird bug though. I wonder what the servers are doing for that checkpoint in particular to fail detection
two possibilities, that check point is off grid so it could be a slightly different check that has a bug with detecting the transitioning car.
second, is that it's because of the wheels, you see in track mania the wheels are what determine weather you cross the finish line.
It's clear however that the server and the client see things differently because the finish line gets registered as basically a regular checkpoint
@@gwentarinokripperinolkjdsf683 i’m inclined to think you’re right with the wheels theory. It would work with the stadium car ==> ice car just fine because the ice car’s wheels are *behind* the stadium car, but it sounds plausible that if you transform at *just* the right moment with *just* enough speed, then the wheels may skip the checkpoint’s hitbox due to suddenly being a bit further ahead when going from ice car ==> stadium car
Under one hour gang
👇
(Btw y'all are lieing cuz im not in the under one hour gang)
It’s already been revealed what it was. It had nothing to do with distance to checkpoint, but instead the switch itself was causing desync between client side and server side.
This meant that EVERY checkpoint after the switch would not detect
That’s why this continued to happen in the next COTD after this one, where, for some bizarre reason, despite knowing of the big, Nadeo decided to allow the COTD to be a snow cup again instead of changing it
Servers shouldn't be calculating the time. Servers should be getting times fed to them from the players' devices. Not the first time servers have done dumb things, won't be the last until they make the servers communicate correctly
What poetic justice that a 20 year celebration would be filled with bugs from nadeo.
I love how this essentially became TOTD trouble shooting, with everyone trying to figure out how to game the bugs.
It's impressive how quickly the community was able to come to a loose diagnosis and fix
This is really unfortunate. I feel terrible for the map creator, having this bug kinda ruin the experience for a lot of players doing Cup of the Day :/
The mapper is Tona. He works for Nadeo and created the entire snow campaign.
Love everybody giving definitive answers and being proven wrong almost immediately
My favourite sub-genre of internet comment is people with no experience with game engines, server infrastructure, or even game design, posting their hypothesis on how bugs work based off half baked notions they've heard about in some speed run explanation.
Seriously, somebody was saying that it could be because of the car's smaller hitbox meaning that if they go fast enough they go through the checkpoint before the server recognises they've touched it...and have they ever watched a full speed map?
@@DNeonLampSounds valid xdd
@@DNeonLampwhat's your hypothesis actually?
@@tgz39j4ndywmm7 I think hypothesising further is a waste of time and this is well in attach debug and check territory, plenty of possible causes have been named which are worth investigating.
@@tgz39j4ndywmm7 my hypothesis is that I don't pretend to know the details of TMs server structure. I just see explanations that make no sense if you actually thought about it in the context of TrackMania and not Mario.
People are saying checkpoint, but I think its the new car collision and the tick rate. The cars collision is probably so small, the tick you move through the checkpoint, you actually skip getting it due to said collision being so small. Either that or on the single frame during the swap, there is no collision. So you have to get super lucky to go through fast to match the swap.
Would the servers really not be doing ANY interpolation or additional checks? Given how it's all deterministic based on inputs, it should be trivial to check current, previous, and next positions really fast to make sure everything is being properly captured.
I don't think that's the case because the car is going less than 400 speed at that checkpoint, if that was the source of the problem than checkpoints where you go over 800 speed in the stadium car would have the same issue, but instead even the snow car gets properly registred through checkpoints at speed much higher without a problem. And if the car itself isn't the issue, than probably it was really the transformation that was causing the problem. (Also I'm pretty sure the game doesn't rely exclusively on detecting a collision for registring the checkpoints, they prob also run a check on the delta of the car's position to avoid this exact problem that you proposed, otherwise I'm sure there would be many other checkpoints with this bug)
realistically none of you have any idea what's wrong, stop yapping please
@@bilbertbag Oh how dare somebody discussing the main point of this video!
@@JigglesMcRibsit probably would take a LOT MORE computing ressources( which means energy, which means money) to calculate every positions of every players hundreds of time per second, than just time checks trough checkpoints
idk how a game like rocket league does that tho, so maybe it's not that impossible but I guess with each server handling a 100 people it would still be harder
It's funny that the COTD the day after this stream managed to be even more broken
Lol what happened on that one?
@@demiano8605 I believe Wirtual couldn't even finish a run in the 15 minute period so he couldn't even participate in knockout
@@demiano8605 all cp´s have counted acording to the cp plugin, but the finish did not count for many players, just like on this, but it was sooo many more players...
@@patryki1 Or not all CPs actually counted. Or counted and rolled back. Wasn't it like 35 eliminations in div 1 in first elimination round, because the CPs didn't work right?
@@samiraperi467 yep, for me it worked like 2 times and then I was fucked xd
As an alpha and beta tester from TM's earliest days I'm so amused watching everybody from the TMN generation get used to the Alpine physics. 😅 I know Desert and Rally are coming but I can't wait for the TMS cars to join back in. Island speed will be stunning, Bay bouncy chaos will be a laugh and watching everybody learn the discipline it takes to manage the Coast car will amuse me no end.🤣
New Coast is gonna be mental
Has to a super sad feeling for the mapper when your map works just fine offline but it brakes completely when it goes online.
Probably some kind of race condition or logic flaw on server's end regarding the transformations and checkpoints.
It's a great reminder that no amount of testing something "in the lab" will make it safe to use in the real world. Be it a computer game, drugs, or a superhuman A.I.
The real world just isn't the same as a laboratory, like an online multiplayer tournament isn't the same as a single player session.
The mapper is Tona. He works for Nadeo.
They’re unable to set up server feedback to not lag rollback finish times (see the time Wirtual got scammed out of a cup of the day win) they don’t have the ability to change their entire servers feedback response or else they would have done it long ago, unless Ubisoft lends some monster serves this isn’t getting fixed for months if ever
This isn't that though
@@n64W you're misunderstanding what he means by rollback and the bug he's referring to does affect peoples times. as in, if you lag your actual time doesn't get sent to the server rather the timer continues until it gets an update from the player.
hyped for wirtual to let us know every time he is using the snow car that it has great turn radius for the next 6 months 🔥
5 months left!! xx
I want a dual map now, where one split lets you drive the normal car and the other the snow car but both are perfectly timed, so they are equally fast. There was a COTD once with such a concept taking different routes like you wanted to drive ice or not or soemthing like that.
1:39 AAARRRMMIIIIINNNNN!!!!!!
It looks like the transition between cars happens faster in single player mode while online is slower, possibly due to the slight delay introduced while communicating with the servers.
i can already tell how bad its gonna be
both times this happened, it seems like taking the checkpoint while off the ground and switching cars bugs it out
wirtual never fails to pull a wirtual
I dont watch many of your videos. But when ever there is a cup of the day I cant help myself. Amazing content
nando: here new update
players: did you test it before release?
nando: ....
nando
What I think is happening is:
Too many car transformations are breaking the servers, so if 5 people transform on one part and the servers are fine and then 30 do it at the same time at one on another checkpoint, it breaks the server.
If this were the case, why on earth would it be happening at that part, and why would it be solved by slowing down? Furthermore, how on earth would the ending work where every car within 2 seconds of eachother are transforming back and forth consistently for the entire duration of the finish.
As Wirtual said, there are 2 other sections and the finish where transformations are occuring in or near checkpoints, and also the server continued to make mistakes as player counts dwindled.
I think the bug is the car is blinking in and out and there's a moment where there's no car. if you cross when there's no car you don't cross the cp.
it wouldn't also bug if you're super fast and reach the cp before the blink out.
I think it happens when the car is blinking, in these frames the car is not actually there. I think when you cross the checkpoint while the car is blinking away / is not actually there, the checkpoint doesn't count as completed
For once, something in a game being "broken" means it's actually not functioning properly.
This is the first time a streamer has said "this _____ is older than you guys" and it actually not being true. This is a real sign I am getting old.
wirtual's wish has come true this copt is back and forth of snow and normal cars
The car change concept is so cool though
thx for the content bro, would have loved to see Bren's run tho
This was my favorite cotd
After 3 months not watching you i come back watching trucks 😂😂
Maybe I'm imagining it, but it looked like it flickered less or maybe just cycled through it faster during the transitions on your solo run than it did in multiplayer.
Gl to developers trying to fix this bug 😄
Ever since Wirtual has been getting multiple girlfriends, he's found that he needs to practice goign slower
In Germany there's a saying "Imagine there's a war but nobody is taking part." Here I think "Imagine div 1 first round and everybody DNFs". :D :D :D
Old Trackmania's music is incredible
Eyyyy a new main channel video
So this is the infamous bug finish? 😂
looks like when you transform for a split second you are not technicallly there because you blink out...maybe run it full speed but go diagonal...that is the transform for sure.
i really dont like the way the snow car is being introduced with a car switching block. that makes it feel like tons of the new campaign and cotd tracks will have the snow car forced in, and everyone who prefers the stadium car will constantly be worrying that every new track will have a car change block around the next corner
never played the game but i guess the transformation point acts as checkpoint as well and the normal checkpoint is too close to it
wasn't the second one where wirty couldn't even finish more broken?
When the title looks like click-bait, but it's actually that bad
What was the @Cracking The Cryptic reference at 10:13?
I never got this bug as I was always slow
Perfectly working game
Literally faster than the servers
only when you transform back to a car, and the 5th checkpoint is taken just before you transform, maybe ?? idk
didn't they do any playtesting before relecing the uppdate or soemthing?
Of course the COTFD (I'm leaving that typo in) with new mechanics is the most busted thing ever
User-created levels + online play + transformation update = jank checkpoints
293 hrs in, I can get all 25 campaign AT's in a day, I'm gold 1, but I can't play any Toma maps bc f2p
My theory is that the checkpoint was glitching when saving info about your car state when you cross, and writing it to memory. Maybe it couldn't store the state of the car mid-transformation, so it fails to update in memory. Despite seeing the time comparison pop up, it isn't tracked and then the next checkpoint takes it's place in the array, showing a 3 second increase. At the end of the track it checks the number of checkpoints in the array and it doesn't let you finish because it is one short
It was not the same checkpoint that was skipped during the RIP round, it was someting else. Did anyone else notice that?
It could also be the end chekpoint, as there's flickering going on, and respawning mid-air preserves the timing.
My guess is that the car switches to non-visible or visible state at the same frame the car hitbox collides with a cp/end hitbox.
ah yes, goofy Suzuki Sidekick content
Can this new car topple over if you're taking too strong of a turn?
NANDO EXCLUSIVES 💵
Sick vid
So fast
How do you know
@@Sagecarp2 lol 😂
@@gooznf5243 i got a RUclips notification and when I pressed on it the video said 1 second ago xD
@@Sagecarp2 lol
speed check that kills you if you go to fast XD
Wait, is that car from og environment? holy shit if that's true I need to return to TM.
We need more tm historian videos, or pyramid videos
The most broken cup of the day ever……so far.
LMAO HOW DID IT EVEN HAPPEN
Just a tip, route is pronounced like root (boot).
it can be either or
ah this map.. we lost 33 in first round... at least it was a fast cup....
I wish these were uploaded sooner when it's more relevant
Man, that's friggin weird. I'd love to see the game logic behind it.
Wirtual
Server tickrate issue?
No
What's the song at 15:30 please ?
A bit late, but its "Mewmore // Pokémon League (Pokémon Diamond & Pearl 2nd Remix)" Enjoy! :D
@@thoonkamphuis4406 Thanks a lot mate !!!! :D
I want to say that my div had 24 knockouts in the first knockout round. It was a shit show. The second day wasn't as bad, but it was still glitchy.
I'm having a Mandela moment here. I watched him play a glitched CotD and he didn't finish even once, unable to qualify. Was that a different map? But if so, why did he seem surprised here?
The COTD you're remembering happened the next day.
@@NotAHandle22 Thanks.
Nando activities
This is kacky then kacky lol
Honestly it sucked because I really enjoyed this map, the bug sucked though.
It happened on all servers too all day for this map.
How on earth did this get approved for COTD?
It worked solo which is how they test the CotD maps, when it went to the CotD servers is when the bug became apparent
I wonder if this is an anticheat false positive from crossing consecutive checkpoints too quickly?
There are plenty of maps that stack checkpoints on top of eachother, and with the many different game modes played online this would deffinitely be known of by now, unless this would be an anti-cheat specific to Cup of the Day and they've never had close checkpoints before (highly doubtful, especially as cut-prevention), then I am very skeptical of this idea.
X = 9?
100k views, 10 hours ago. That’s why I clicked
Istg i wish you could be my hair stylist ;-;
thats funny how the mapper got skill checked by not seeing this bug
If it only happens online, he might never have encoutered that bug when testing the map in solo
It wasn't the map. Any live sessions on maps with car transformations were experiencing this bug.
love wirt
Hell this looks bad😅
this video is a little late no?
yooo
Yooo
Why are the uploads so inconsistent lately, this wasn't even a recent COTD, plus the issue is now fixed
This is from a few days ago, what do you mean not recent
div 4 washed streamer
to be honest i dont like watching your videos anymore cause of the snow car. It feels wrong somehow and the wobble of the snow car is annoying.
fourth
first
first
!