7MM PRC load development: New test loads with 195 Grain Berger EOL Elite Hunter Bullets.
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- Опубликовано: 9 фев 2025
- Well, I decided to switch bullets and try out the Berger 195 grain EOL Elite Hunter bullets. I was pretty surprised to be getting better velocity with them as compared to 180 grain ELD-M bullets.
I shot loads from 67.5 grains to 68.8 grains of Retumbo Powder. Bullet dispersion was fairly equal, with all of the charge weights, leading me to choose my favorite charge weight and adjust COAL to tighten things up.
I did shoot out to 600 yards and was impressed by the performance of the bullets. However, I got excited by the nice weather today, was up against a the clock for another meeting and didn’t choose an optimal shooting position/platform. I’ll have to remedy that in the next round.
So, 68.8 it is, next step is to find a good accuracy node, at that charge weight, by adjusting the COAL in .003 increments.
Those are my thoughts on the matter, but I’ll admit I’m no expert. I’d love to have your constructive input, so please share!
@BergerBullets
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Really enjoying your channel - you don't mess around when it comes to your gear.
Picked up one of these Reapers in 7MM PRC "New" right from the factory order... it never did come with a target and half of the inspection card was simply crossed out. Scoped the bore and saw copper fouling through out - both of which should have been a red flag.
Tried 30 some rounds to get on target - 2 different sets of rings, it will not shoot. When i say it will not shoot i mean 6 inch group at 100 yards with the only available solid ammo (Hornady Outfitter CX 160gr.) Never had a rifle shoot so poorly. I actually thought it was the scope rings or the scope so put the scope (Nightforce) on another rifle and it was half MOA. Tried a second set of rings with it again on the Reaper and back to football groups. I'll admit the weight and feel is awesome but for $5K Canadian I expected something that can shoot - bought this guy for deer hunting to shoot solids so my family and dogs don't have to eat ELD-X fragments of lead so if it doesn't shoot solids its not much worth to us.
Keep up with the great content dude 😄
If you lived in the states then Pac Nor barrels does do the full barrel change to the exact barrel you want made and chambered.
I bought a defective Weatherby Mark 5 in 300Wby mag that the company refused to take responsibility for the barrel defect.
At Weatherby when the grandson took over operations of the company, he really made a mess of the company and policy's where I am not the only one a victim of shady run Weatherby now the company is putting out some really bad defective guns and won't warranty them defective guns.
The Warranty department either blames you for the guns defects or just hangs up the phone on you.
After some years of on and off squabbling with Weatherby I just sent the barreled action to Pac Nor and said I want the barrel like this - SS - super match - 27 inches with Polygonal 1-10 rifling- Fluted and muzzle break chambered back to 300 Wby mag.
The cost was $500 with shipping, and it now shoots same hole groups.
I own 5 rifles using Pac Nor barrels with all of them are match grade shooters.
Have been thinking about.pickimg up some of those 195s so tempted
Ok, think I found the problem… I noticed my barrel was wiggling a little, the gunsmith got everything all tightened up again. That should help.
The 68 grain group did shoot best, so, from there I’m loading cartridges from 67.6-68.6 in .2 grain increments to find the accuracy node there.
After that, I’ll play with coal. Currently I’m .030 off jam.
I had problems with my rage too. I probably will not buy another one. I used to have hounds chasing lion, that brought up old memories. I wish I had a place that has a lot of cats. I use 73 grains of n570 to push the 180 vld. I get 3050 out of my rifle. I don’t have the email Berger sent me but they had 195 on it.
Awesome- I’m glad you found the problem. I’m just waiting on my chassis to come and I’m putting together my 7prc and loads. Great vid, looking for it to come together for ya.
Your on the right tract my friend...I recently started load development with the 195 grain bergers...results were excellent. Keep on moving your seating depth you will find a sweet spot. Good luck brother 👍
I just finished my load development for my tikka 7prc with 195s. I was able to squeeze 2880 out of a 22” barrel but man was I stomping on it to get there. Right on the bleeding edge of danger
You going to destroy the barrel! What was the grouping like? My 7PRC was fast but it never grouped below 1in at 100yard no mater what I tried 😢 The gunsmith said I damaged the barrel right at the start. The first 150 or o rounds were very hot loaded. #NeverAgain #MoneyWasted
@@MrGoMario I think your gunsmith is trying to sell you a barrel. 0.6” average group. If you shoot round after round and get the barrel scorching hot yes you can have heat cracking, but 2-3 shot strings and temp management is perfectly safe.
If you can get at least 2850 FPS from a 195 grain Berger Bullet in a 7 MM you would be golden. The bullet would remain stable out to 1850 yards or more. Nothing wrong with that. Just over 1100 FPS and just over 500 ft lbs of energy. Is there better? Sure. Is it needed in a hunting rifle? Not in my book. 1500 yards it’s still traveling 1300 FPS and around 750 ft lbs of energy. 800 yards is my max preferred hunting distance because I can hold under a 5 shot 3” group pretty consistent. I’m sure there are better shooters out there than me but that’s my max effective shooting distance on game and the 195 Grain Berger if leaving the barrel at the 2850 FPS will still be traveling around 1950 FPS with over 1600 ft lbs of kinetic energy at that 800 yards if at 1100 ft above sea level. When you go up in sea level things will change because your bullet will retain its velocity much further. Great video.
195 Berger in 7 mag with n570 is BA. 2950 no problem. Was getting 2912 with no issues with Retumbo. My COAL is 3.5”. Shooting between 1/4-1/3MOA.
Retumbo out a great powder, but its burn speed needs a longer barrel. Not sure, but it looks like you’ve got a 18” or 20” barrel. Retumbo would be better in a 24-28” barrel. If you look closely in your suppressor, you may have signs of unburned or late burned powder. If powder is still burning when it reaches your suppressor, you’ll find it very difficult to have good SD/ES and you’ll continue to chase any sort of precision. If your barrel is in fact 20” or under, maybe something like N560 or IMR 7828 SSC or something in that ver similar burn speed.
Another thing to consider, jumping in 0.003" increments is not the best way to start on load development- it's such a fine increment. Start at 0.020" off the lands and jump 0.015". When you find two depths with similar groups, pick a spot in between those to jumps and test 0.003" on each side of it. Once you find your seating depth, then drop the charge 5% back from max and work up in 1% increments until you find the velocity that provides the best SD/ES/
My rifle was shooting erratic like that. That cartridge will loosen screws even meeting torque specs. Have a gunsmith run through the whole rifle to make sure everything is tight and to use locktight where necessary. My accutac arca mount would even slide further off shot after shot even though i had it on super tight.
try ramshot grand, im pushing the 195s about 2840 w 67.2g. I pushed it as high as 2950 but was hard on brass, I will say that brass matters, I've been told that ADG or Peterson is the way to go if you want speed from PRCs.
10 months later, how are you liking the Mountain Reaper? The "Fierce Firearms Disaster" thread on Rokslide has me thinking I'll pass on this gun if I am finally able to upgrade later this year.
Badass. Thanks for the vid!
I think part of the spread i would attribute to the target being attached to string. Looked like a lot of movement when you walked out to it and explained the groups. Mounting to a fixed object, like a pallet or piece of cardboard would eliminate that error if any.
100 yards groups are ok for load development, and I prefer 200. However, if they're loose at 100yds, they can't get better farther out. Run some different powders through it - LRT, Staball HD, N570, etc.
200 yard zero is useless if you have an optic you can dial. 100 yard zero is much more precise.
@@Rackpack-mb4ml I'm looking for velocity and groups - not a zero.
@@Rackpack-mb4mlamen
N570 is what I use in my 7mm prc rage. I never had much luck with retumbo. A I have not seen that powder in a long time. I bet you would get 2925 to 2950 with n570
Hmmm… might have to try it… I have some N570 I got for my .338 LM.
I need to find some N570. I was able to squeeze 2880 out of a 22” barrel but i have a slightly heavy bolt every few rounds. I am right on the bleeding edge of danger at 68.2gr at a 3.360” COAL since im in a tikka
I got my data from Berger. Called them up told them what bullets I was going to try. I also us adg brass was the only stuff I could find at the time. I’m still about 2 grains under max.
Ive had good results with 7 PRC using H4831SC. Very small groups, but maybe a little slower than id like. 175 Berger Elite Hunter around 2,860 fps.
If your happy with retumbo play with the oal and see what they will do
Ive seen some ok groups turn into great groups just from adjusting how much the bullets gotta jump to engage the rifling
Personally ive been testing a bunch of loads with reloader 26
Ive also got a bottle of h1000 on the shelf just in case
I'm seriously considering this bullet for hunting. My only hold off is I run a 205 Berger Elite Hunter in .300 PRC around 2855. Not sure I'd gain anything by loading that heavy in the 7 PRC? Great video BTW.
I was thinking about doing just this... curious what the velocity would be out of a 26 in barrel
First thoughts. Definately do a seating depth change up/ ladder test. ELD-X are a easy load to work up. If you want to change up things, try H1000 or VVN165. Also Hammer bullets. They boast higher velocities. I think you can tighten up those groups. Hopefully you re- torked down scope/ action screws etc. After first good break in. If not, re check those. I will re post with data I am getting
Not sure if the berger book quote made it to you . About the jump test they recomend
N165 and StaBall HD have been very nice to me
I tried retumbo and staball hd. My rifle liked the staball hd
Bingo! Lol! I think that was the problem! Torqued then back down today!
@@Trinitystillmynamedo expand on that! I’m starting at .030 off jam. Plan on adjusting that once I find my best charge weight.
I've gone back and forth on the 195s. I remember when Berger introduced the 180 VLD in 7mm for hunting. I thought, man that is a big bullet for 7mm. Now there's the 195s. What's next 210s? I've been tempted but taking into account the ol Berger 168VLD in my 7RemMag dropped a huge mule deer at 800 I am having difficulty justifying the trend towards these long bullets. They need faster twists to stabilize and the faster the twist, the more velocity you lose. Can't get around it. Not saying it's much but it's a consequence. I have four 7PRCs. Heaviest I've gone is 180s and I've not been convinced there's any reason to go heavier. Just my thoughts for now.
By the way, I killed deer with 180 ELD-Ms this past season in one of my 7PRCs - Lone Peak Arms LH Razor Ti action, 24" Benchmark #5, 8 twist, AG Composite stock, TT Diamond trigger, Hawkins Hunter DBM. I used factory ammo. One deer at 70 yards, another at just under 300. The ELDM performed like any hunting bullet I've used. Passed through, nice damage to vitals. My first experience with them shooting or on game. Only reason I opted to do so was my buddy killed his first bull elk this past fall with his Fierce Reaper in 300PRC with the Hornady factory 225 ELDMs
Yeah, I started doing load development with ELD-M’s I got a pretty good load but wanted to try the 195 Bergers. I got Berger to send me about 250 of them. Idk if it’s just my barrel, but I get higher velocity with the 195 bergers than I do with the same powder charge with the 180 grain eld-m. That makes up for the slightly lower bc, gives me more energy and allows me to shoot a bullet designed for hunting… though I was going to use the ELD-M’s anyway.
I’d say load some up! The 1:8 7 PRC twist will stabilize them. I’m curious to see if you get a higher velocity with them over the eld-m’s too!
If so, that’s plenty of reason to switch, if you’re open to it… but, eldm’s are great too, so if you have a load you’re happy with, I definitely wouldn’t fault you for sticking with it too!
@@apex-livingwithpredators8379 Fascinating your're getting better velocity with the 195s. I think I will try them
@@Accuracy1st I was definitely surprised! Made choosing them a no brainer!
Thank you for the video.
May I ask…Im interested in this rifle.
What are your best groups and with what ammo?
Hey there! That’s exactly why I’m doing load development to create that load. I didn’t do any grouping work with factory ammo. I’m developing a load from scratch. It’s primarily for long range hunting, the best hunting bullet (bc wise) is this 195 grain Berger, so I’m doing load development with it. Even without having my load development done, it’s pretty accurate at 600 yards.
Nice video 👍 If the groups don't change get a better rest for the rifle!!! What was your speed again? I think 180grain to 200grain is best for this caliber. I am about to sell my 7PRC. It is too much gun for me 😢 I tried the 6.8 Western with 175grain at just over 2830 fps and the grouping is unbelievable!!! 0.65 inches at 110 yard (100m) out of a 26inch barrel!
I shoot 180gr bullets out of my 7prc 64.8gr of h4831sc. Crazy good accuracy loaded light just to shoot more often and haven’t used my chrono yet. What brass are you using? I’ve never shot any handloads other than Hornady, I’m a cheap man. Very nice setup. I’ll be looking at some of your other videos glad I found your channel
What scope mount is that? Looked like front was jacked up from picattini rail?
Try 20 thousand off the lands for the 195 , might tighten up
Curious, what is your barrel twist rate ??
Slow them all down. 7prc isnt a hot rod cartridge. Go and check out Erik Cortina if you haven’t already.
i was first
lol! 🙏🏽
You listen to big guides, they really dislike berger bullets, a lot of lost game. Why so heavy of bullet in prc? Powder capacity not in that case to make them perform
I've had good success with them myself. One does have to keep in mind that they are designed to function differently than most other projectiles, in terms of terminal performance. One should keep that in mind when considering shot placement with this or any other bullet, as well as know the limits of the bullet for optimal terminal performance.
On the plus side, they often offer the best in caliber ballistic coefficients. While this may not be important for those that only hint out to 300 yards or so, for those of us that reach out further, it means reduce drop, reduced wind drift and greater ability to place a bullet right where we want it.
I chose this bullet because it's the highest BC 7mm bullet designed for hunting on a rifle I'm setting up for long range precision hunting.
I’m about start load development with 195’s in my 7prc for the same reason as you. Bear season is around the corner here in Alaska so I’m sure it’ll work fine.
I’ve use 156 Berger’s in my 6.5prc and took a 7’ brown bear with no problem. Thanks for the vid 🤙🏽
At 64 years old I grew up with elders using 7 mm Rem mags on the North Oregon coast hunting Roosevelt Elk & Black Tail deer.
I own a 7 mm Rem mag in many rifles I own and all these years my now passed away family members and I only used 7 mm Bullets of 150 grains to shoot over the massive canyons we have to level these Hugh Roosevelt Elk.
I don't know where this fad came from of stoking ammo with overly heavy bullets that mainly was a match shooter choice.
The same craziness as seen on almost all videos some millennial laying on his belly shooting large rifles playing GI Joe when shooting from a compact table and gun rest is far better than trying to imitate GI Joe shooting training.
When I go just to shoot, I have a 4 foot portable table and a gun rest then a lawn chair works great and no way in hell I am shooting laying on my belly shooting my rifles in 300 Wby mag - 338 win mag - 8mm- 378 Wby mag then have the recoil hammer me and be scoped in the head!
My Tikka T3 in an ultra-light in 7 mm Rem mag is 3x worst for recoil than a 300 Wby mag and it will imbed the scope into your forehead if not set for it to go off.
I Agree, There is a sweet spot for bullet weight and Cartridge(I said cartridge, not caliber) For example 30-06 and the 165 Grns, 300 WM 180 grns.(even the 300Wby exels with 180 Grns) I wouldn't load a 300 RUM with anything heavier than a 200 Grns. 7MM the heaviest when designed was 175 grns, and pretty slow. 7RM about the same performance as the 7PRC, but 160-168 grns perfect balance. 195 Grrns in a 7 PRC like a 250 grns 300PRC ???
@@WillyK51 There is a big parrot mouth talking fab on these video gun comments to suggesting the near largest weight 30 cal bullets for 30-06 or any of the 300s.
Looking at the knuckle heads accounts if they have listed anything often shows these fools are teenagers that never touch a gun in their life.
I know from my own experiences shooting a 200 to 220 grain bullet in a 30-06 more often the bullets only mash the lead exposed point and that is where the expansion stops.
The any of the 300's they have speed and energy to use what I see is idea bullet weight of 180 grain bullets.
There is no need to be shooting 200 grain 30 cal bullets in any 300 magnums other than target when wind maybe a factor.
I pretty sure the 300 WSM doesn't come close to the 300 Weatherby magnum and recently Remington is putting out 300 WSM ammo which I bought a box for the brass to make 375 -300 WSM ammo for my AR 10.
So, what I did was used the powder & bullets from the 300 WSM ammo to load into the 300 Wby mag ammo I did fire these loads that showed to be so weak fired in the 300 Wby that the primers didn't even flatten up against the bolt when fired.
All of these new 30 cal magnums when the old 300 Wby is still tops to me so no thanks to all the other 300s I have 2 rifles in 300 Wby mag and I am sticking to them.
When a rifle seems used up, I have a new barrel put on not to get on the Biden commie & criminal ATF list.
The rifle I own in 7 mm Rem mag is a Tikka T3 ultra light and it is Scary accurate to I can call where the bullet lands and all bullet weights or types of powder charged reloads don't change the accuracy at all.
At 6 1/2 pounds this rifle will rattle your eyeballs like a ball in a pin ball machine on pulling the trigger.
@@dalebenson6859 I agree, in My personal 30-06 my fav is 165 grns. Max 180 grns. I have plans to get/build a 7MM and bullet choice would be 160-168Grns. Most likelly in 7RM👍
@@WillyK51 Go to a Pawn shop then look for good deals on used guns for a magnum bolt face rifle.
When I was building bolt guns I would buy the Mauser 98 actions in full rifles from pawns shops for $200 to $300 then throw barrel - stock - triggers away to be replaced with quality parts and barrels and use a Boyde's stock -
You have for $500 a rifle barreled for from Pac Nor with a SS super match barrel - fluted and muzzle break