I set up a back presssure sensor last year just like this. Found out my ratio was 2.5:1 so I am in the process of upgrading my turbo. I was experiencing the only picking up 10hp per psi of boost and I was having to put a lot of pressure on the dome to get it to make more power. It flat out works and gives much needed info. I love the explanation.
Great video as always love learning l know you are one of the best at making power and making it in the best possible way good luck 25 looking forward to seeing snot rocket impressing the world as it always has Happy New Year always wish you and your crew the best
When you achieve the magical less than 1:1 ebp the valve overlap has the intended cylinder clearing and cooling. raw fuel down the pipe ready to expand. This is where the external WG is king at handling the increasing ebp pulce flow.
Great explanation on turbo pressure ratio. Gail Banks also has a great explanation that’s worth a watch. The coils in the stainless line also allow for some movement with exhaust thermal expansion. I’ve been looking at your dampers for a while to monitor my own setup as I’m running a new turbo setup on a very small engine (1.4L) with reasonably high boost (25-30psi) in a Hillclimb car.
Depending on the amount of overlap and exhaust back pressure, exhaust gas also enters the intake manifold, further diluting the intake charge and adding additional heat.
Something that helps me think about exhaust pressure is using the diesel terminology of "drive pressure". It's the pressure necessary to drive the compressor at that boost. A lot of people don't realize a lot of diesels come with exhaust pressure sensors from the factory it's so important.
This is the perfect video for the guys trying to run stock housing hybrid turbos with 40+ PSI, and wondering why they keep hurting their engines. Well guys. 3:1 EBP or 120PSI on the back of your valve is not going to end well for you in the long term...
To me all drag racing cars should use Co2. To be able to have full control over the wastegate from the 2 stet to the finish line. Without having to wait for the turbo to make boost for control.
I have single turbo, but has twin scroll exhaust housing, hot side pipes are individual into the turbo flange.... Where would be best place to plumb that since there isnt a merge
If your header/ manifold are equal Runners it would not matter which one you put it in. If you don't have equal Runners it might not be a bad idea to put sensors in both of them. What I personally would do is put a censor bong in each one you only need one sensor running on one run it on the other one whichever one reads higher that would be the one I would want to monitor all the time. But more data is always better.
I have a twin scroll turbo with a divided turbo flange and two separate sides from header to flange. Would the reading be the same on one side, I have a sensor on one side reading is square and about half the actual boost being made. Is this right?
Sounds like you have the magical ebp of lessthan 1 . What is your package? The 2 hafes of a good running engine should be balanced/ equal. Throw a plug in the bank you are currently measuring and add a port to the other side to confirm. Also depending on the manufacturer the ( if equipped) inturnal waste gate may only bleed air from 1 side (eg holset hx35) and can show all good and the other no.
One question: Bigger turbine wheel or bigger exhaust housing? Like if you could use a 55mm turbine with a .63ar or a 51mm with .83 ar which one should be used, pro and cons
It's all really going to come down to the specific build you have. In what specific power level you're looking at running. That's one of the reasons installing the sensor is very crucial in helping you determine what to do. To help optimize everything.
@@mihailpetrovici5044 I wouldn't recommend making your turbo selection off of some of the advice on RUclips comments.. with that said I will still give it. Running 30 PSI you should be making quite a bit of horsepower unless you're talking less than a 2liter engine. Both of those might actually be small. The larger the actual turbine will you go you have more spinning mass and you will have slower spool up.
Pressure sensorses should have a 10-20% head room on the range. 80psi=100psi sensor 45psi=50psi sensor. Another thing to look at is possible data rate in the peaks happen at a rate faster than the sensor or the read rate youll get a false high
It won't take much boost to make 650 on a coyote. 7275 or so would be cool. I think superchargers are king on under 1000hp coyote daily driver applications though. But the turbo will def sound cooler.
What if one could put an extra waste gate or bypass that could keep exhaust back pressure at an ideal percentage while still using all boost pressure available. Thanks for the videos bub I appreciate it and u blessings to you and yours brother. Love and prayers to all n God bless yall
That can help in some instances but is really more of a Band-aid. Running too small of a turbo you will end up having issues where it's not spooling up well or just running out of steam meaning you may just need to get a larger Turbo.
@TainterRacing right on I was thinking that it would be beneficial in a class rule setting such as turbo size or what not. I appreciate you and your insights and interaction. Much love n blessings to you and yours. Love and prayers to all n God bless yall
That’s what a wastegate does. It bypasses the turbo. Adding another WG to open will just lower the boost. (And of course Backpressure.) you can’t “cheat” the system with another WG. It’s just more of the same.
@@4familyman the reason I said it can help in some instances is if it's extremely high and it's actually due to extremely undersized turbine and housing. It's not going to make it ideal by any means but it can be used as a Band-Aid to help lower the back pressure. I specifically did this on a car running turbo integrated wastegate I was running at about a 3.5 :1 after installing the external wastegate with a dump I was able to get that down to about 1.9:1 The results are going to matter a lot on the style of exhaust that is on the vehicle I was still running a full exhaust with no cats and performance muffler. At the same boost levels I picked up about 35 to 40 horsepower across the Curve. With that said a proper size turbo would definitely have made more power at the same boost level.
@@4familyman I understand the the the original purpose of a waste gate. Just like I understand the purpose of a blow off valve, but you can also add an e gate to control intake pressure so I think one could use the same idea to control exhaust pressure. Unless you really understand what I'm saying and you've experimented with this idea, you are just parroting common knowledge and practices. No disrespect intended, but thinking outside the box and new ways of doing old things is how one can evolve and progress into better and more productive ways of doing things that may be beneficial. Do it the way everyone else is doing it will never progress the evolution of performance imo. Much love n prayers to all and God bless.
Better than "backpressure" to monitor is CYLINDER PRESSURE. That will tell you MANY things. The least of which, is do you have the right cam in there, and are you making peak power without detonating at all. Detonation is due to exceeding peak cylinder pressure. I do NOT mean "compression" values. I am talking about something completely different. When I was at SWRI, we had the instrumentation to show this. It changed everything regarding how engines were tuned.
Great vid, how do you keep the metal line from bending and fatiguing over time, since there is engine movement and the canister is installed off the motor in a static area (like firewall).
Eagle started going 3.90’s hazing 275’s and snot rocket testing disappeared.. coincidence? Maybe… Brett finding hidden tricks to be faster? More likely… lmao
Backpressure on an NA street car is in fact important due to the fact that too small of pipes or restrictive mufflers or cats could increase back pressure to the point its restricting the engine. To say that on NA it isn't important is not thinking things all the way through.
Bret, when are you guys gonna hire a cameraman to do much much more Videos. You guys would make a Great Channel if you put out much more Content. You guys are Very Intelligent and Knowledgeable. Share that like Steve Morris does on his channel. Steve Morris Loves sharing his Engine building & car racing knowledge !! We wanna see the Great Smart Racers make Content. PLEASE 🙏 We’re Tired of Watching the Clown 🤡 Content of other so called Creators !!
I set up a back presssure sensor last year just like this. Found out my ratio was 2.5:1 so I am in the process of upgrading my turbo. I was experiencing the only picking up 10hp per psi of boost and I was having to put a lot of pressure on the dome to get it to make more power. It flat out works and gives much needed info. I love the explanation.
Wow that would be a lot of psi on the waste gates
Many people don’t monitor it but have no idea the impact of a restrictive exhaust housing
Imagine if you had a massive turbo basically only good for drag racing with high stall and c02 or nos for circuit racing....
Motion was soooo smart to grab u up when u were available, such a great asset to the company #winning
Pepto usually helps with exhaust back pressure
GasX
Great video as always love learning l know you are one of the best at making power and making it in the best possible way good luck 25 looking forward to seeing snot rocket impressing the world as it always has Happy New Year always wish you and your crew the best
8:50 true true.
1 more point the back pressure will burp up the intake manifold during overlap. Egr and intake charge air heating, from the bottom up.
Not only is Brett a great drag racer, he's championship material in the teaching dept as well. Best EBP explanation on the 'Tube right now.
Excellent explanation Brett!
I love the precision serious educational Brett.
Great video a lot of great information! Have a wonderful day 🙏
Appreciate you! Thanks for watching.
When you achieve the magical less than 1:1 ebp the valve overlap has the intended cylinder clearing and cooling. raw fuel down the pipe ready to expand. This is where the external WG is king at handling the increasing ebp pulce flow.
What a great video. Bretts the man
Wow. This video is all the things that I did not know ! Thanx.
This was very informative...thanks Brett and the Motuon Raceworks team.
Great explanation on turbo pressure ratio. Gail Banks also has a great explanation that’s worth a watch. The coils in the stainless line also allow for some movement with exhaust thermal expansion. I’ve been looking at your dampers for a while to monitor my own setup as I’m running a new turbo setup on a very small engine (1.4L) with reasonably high boost (25-30psi) in a Hillclimb car.
Very educational, thank you, Brent!
It’s Brett, but I agree , great video!!
Depending on the amount of overlap and exhaust back pressure, exhaust gas also enters the intake manifold, further diluting the intake charge and adding additional heat.
Something that helps me think about exhaust pressure is using the diesel terminology of "drive pressure". It's the pressure necessary to drive the compressor at that boost. A lot of people don't realize a lot of diesels come with exhaust pressure sensors from the factory it's so important.
Excellent information! Thanks
As always fantastic easy to understand useful information from the team at motion! 🤟🤟👍👍👍
Great tech Brett. Thanks for the insight. Happy New year to all the crew!
Great clear information Brett . Well executed video 👍
does the line have to be stainless? ive seen cars with copper, thats why i ask.
I hoped you would explain overlap to backpressure and how they relate to each other. Does that relationship have anything to do with reversion?
Awesome video dude! This is very helpful and well explained!
Thanks! We're glad you found it useful.
I was hoping you would touch on what aspects of a cam effects exhaust backpressure.
That’s pretty advanced and there are plenty of variables. We just wanted to cover the basics here
This is the perfect video for the guys trying to run stock housing hybrid turbos with 40+ PSI, and wondering why they keep hurting their engines. Well guys. 3:1 EBP or 120PSI on the back of your valve is not going to end well for you in the long term...
Stupid question but are you going to make it to Sick week?
Yes, I will be there with my car, and Motion will have 3 other cars racing.
At what point do you need a co² system?
To me all drag racing cars should use Co2. To be able to have full control over the wastegate from the 2 stet to the finish line. Without having to wait for the turbo to make boost for control.
Great information here, well done 👏
Appreciate the feedback! Glad you found it useful.
I have single turbo, but has twin scroll exhaust housing, hot side pipes are individual into the turbo flange.... Where would be best place to plumb that since there isnt a merge
If your header/ manifold are equal Runners it would not matter which one you put it in. If you don't have equal Runners it might not be a bad idea to put sensors in both of them. What I personally would do is put a censor bong in each one you only need one sensor running on one run it on the other one whichever one reads higher that would be the one I would want to monitor all the time. But more data is always better.
Will this work with the holly system?
Yep
The one Mr. Banks explained this and advocated monitoring this.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge 👍
I have a twin scroll turbo with a divided turbo flange and two separate sides from header to flange. Would the reading be the same on one side, I have a sensor on one side reading is square and about half the actual boost being made. Is this right?
Sounds like you have the magical ebp of lessthan 1 . What is your package?
The 2 hafes of a good running engine should be balanced/ equal.
Throw a plug in the bank you are currently measuring and add a port to the other side to confirm.
Also depending on the manufacturer the ( if equipped) inturnal waste gate may only bleed air from 1 side (eg holset hx35) and can show all good and the other no.
Good info! - Want to just send me that one now that its been opened? 🤣
I wondering if i xan used this on my b serie engine with hondata s300 i don't think i can read that righ or wrong ?
Yeah ITS Not a Problem. U need a Pressure Sensor 0-30psi 0-5v and Cooper Tube and lets go
Are you going for the drag and drive record for SICK WEEK lets go
One question: Bigger turbine wheel or bigger exhaust housing? Like if you could use a 55mm turbine with a .63ar or a 51mm with .83 ar which one should be used, pro and cons
It's all really going to come down to the specific build you have. In what specific power level you're looking at running. That's one of the reasons installing the sensor is very crucial in helping you determine what to do. To help optimize everything.
@TainterRacing if both cases would have the same flow, which one should be chosen for a 30psi aplication
@@mihailpetrovici5044 I wouldn't recommend making your turbo selection off of some of the advice on RUclips comments.. with that said I will still give it. Running 30 PSI you should be making quite a bit of horsepower unless you're talking less than a 2liter engine. Both of those might actually be small. The larger the actual turbine will you go you have more spinning mass and you will have slower spool up.
Solid video. Great knowledge
I saw PRYKA!!!
I love your videos kevin
At what point do you use co² on a turbo setup?
Great information
Pressure sensorses should have a 10-20% head room on the range. 80psi=100psi sensor 45psi=50psi sensor.
Another thing to look at is possible data rate in the peaks happen at a rate faster than the sensor or the read rate youll get a false high
What would be a good single turbo for gen4 coyote f150 for 650whp (daily driver)
It won't take much boost to make 650 on a coyote. 7275 or so would be cool. I think superchargers are king on under 1000hp coyote daily driver applications though. But the turbo will def sound cooler.
@ thanks Brett! Huge fan!
I wanna see more videos of that dog in the background
What if one could put an extra waste gate or bypass that could keep exhaust back pressure at an ideal percentage while still using all boost pressure available. Thanks for the videos bub I appreciate it and u blessings to you and yours brother. Love and prayers to all n God bless yall
That can help in some instances but is really more of a Band-aid. Running too small of a turbo you will end up having issues where it's not spooling up well or just running out of steam meaning you may just need to get a larger Turbo.
@TainterRacing right on I was thinking that it would be beneficial in a class rule setting such as turbo size or what not. I appreciate you and your insights and interaction. Much love n blessings to you and yours. Love and prayers to all n God bless yall
That’s what a wastegate does. It bypasses the turbo. Adding another WG to open will just lower the boost. (And of course Backpressure.) you can’t “cheat” the system with another WG. It’s just more of the same.
@@4familyman the reason I said it can help in some instances is if it's extremely high and it's actually due to extremely undersized turbine and housing. It's not going to make it ideal by any means but it can be used as a Band-Aid to help lower the back pressure. I specifically did this on a car running turbo integrated wastegate I was running at about a 3.5 :1 after installing the external wastegate with a dump I was able to get that down to about 1.9:1
The results are going to matter a lot on the style of exhaust that is on the vehicle I was still running a full exhaust with no cats and performance muffler. At the same boost levels I picked up about 35 to 40 horsepower across the Curve. With that said a proper size turbo would definitely have made more power at the same boost level.
@@4familyman I understand the the the original purpose of a waste gate. Just like I understand the purpose of a blow off valve, but you can also add an e gate to control intake pressure so I think one could use the same idea to control exhaust pressure. Unless you really understand what I'm saying and you've experimented with this idea, you are just parroting common knowledge and practices. No disrespect intended, but thinking outside the box and new ways of doing old things is how one can evolve and progress into better and more productive ways of doing things that may be beneficial. Do it the way everyone else is doing it will never progress the evolution of performance imo. Much love n prayers to all and God bless.
Great video
Well done
Very interesting video.
This is interesting technology, I am assuming this is how you go so fast!
Better than "backpressure" to monitor is CYLINDER PRESSURE. That will tell you MANY things. The least of which, is do you have the right cam in there, and are you making peak power without detonating at all. Detonation is due to exceeding peak cylinder pressure. I do NOT mean "compression" values. I am talking about something completely different. When I was at SWRI, we had the instrumentation to show this. It changed everything regarding how engines were tuned.
No doubt this is the game changer. I hope the cost for that analysis equipment will be more affordable at some point.
Dude knows his stuff..... Did he just say everhow? Nevermind. 🤣
So fellas, what is the Litre of exahust gas to size of back housing "formula" that the turbo engine builders go buy?
great tech info.
Awsome!!!
Great vid, how do you keep the metal line from bending and fatiguing over time, since there is engine movement and the canister is installed off the motor in a static area (like firewall).
The coiled line would definitely help with that.
Eagle started going 3.90’s hazing 275’s and snot rocket testing disappeared.. coincidence? Maybe… Brett finding hidden tricks to be faster? More likely… lmao
Damping, not dampening. Sorry, pet peeve. With that out of the way, this is an awesome video!
Maybe he likes it wet 😛😂
💪🚀
Is that Tony Angelo?
I wonder how many people do not realize how much math is involved with vehicles 😂
Backpressure on an NA street car is in fact important due to the fact that too small of pipes or restrictive mufflers or cats could increase back pressure to the point its restricting the engine. To say that on NA it isn't important is not thinking things all the way through.
Diesel guys call it drive pressure.
ruclips.net/user/shorts8F2E42sKLfo?si=OIxSZVQuXqPsSD-w
If USA puts a Tariff on Canada we will have no choice but to boycott USA products, business, travel... Let's hope it doesn't come to this!
Do not 100% agree. Many variables missed. Drag car, street or circuit? Camshaft/ valve overlap?
What is wrong with this guys shoulders 🤨
Do he have a weird shoulder twitch or something
Come on Bret, you disappoint me...
Absolute pressure when talking map/ tip ratios.please...
Engines operate in an absolute environment, not gauge
Bret, when are you guys gonna hire a cameraman to do much much more Videos. You guys would make a Great Channel if you put out much more Content.
You guys are Very Intelligent and Knowledgeable. Share that like Steve Morris does on his channel.
Steve Morris Loves sharing his Engine building & car racing knowledge !!
We wanna see the Great Smart Racers make Content. PLEASE 🙏
We’re Tired of Watching the Clown 🤡
Content of other so called Creators !!
Great video.
Great video
Great video