@@endermanwithalowercasee it was sadly very amateurish, felt phoned in and rushed and the plot paper thin. Its the kind of movie you watch on a Saturday afternoon at home not on the big screen.
Bro, the real story is about Helm, and in this they subvert him for the made up Hera. Fundamentally the lore is already broken, what do you mean its 95% accurate to the lore?!?!?!
@@SullyRose15 Helm does indeed have a daughter, yes not named. Only thing changed is that she kills Wulf. This is the most lore accurate of any adaptation. Helps the lore is like 2 pages. Nobody's story was subverted. Nothing about helm was suppressed to make way for Hera. There simply doesn't exist a lot of lore about any of the characters in the first place.
Helm himself is amazing and really proves the idea that for a country to be strong it needs a strong leader. Not a dictator but a person who is unafraid and confronts challenges.
I really do not understand why people are claiming the entire war was Héra's fault when it was Helm who officially refused Fréca's marriage offer. The most we get out of Héra on the subject is her private conversation with Wulf where she says it is not that she doesn't want to marry *him*, but that she doesn't want to marry *anyone* (and said very demurely, I might add, with no rant about men or patriarchy anywhere in this film). It was very clear by her reaction that Helm had not even told her about the Gondorian offer yet. She never had a chance to refuse. And Helm refused for solid reasons- Fréca wanted the throne. Marrying Héra off to Wulf would not have actually satisfied him. And when Wulf offers marriage again, at Isengard, SHE IS WILLING TO DO IT provided he agrees to call off the attack. That is a 100% reasonable requirement tactically, culturally, and real-world historically. Noble women in Anglo Saxon society were referred to as "peaceweavers" for this exact reason- they would be wed to an enemy lord or his son to end the conflict, and then sons would be fostered at each court to further continue the bond and act as insurance. Héra in that scene IS performing her culturally correct, gendered duty against her own desires. Again, it is the man who refuses - Wulf gets pissy because she isn't marrying him for him and would instead be marrying him as a bargain. Wulf made it very clear he had no intention of respecting tradition and would be a terrible king, and that Héra wedding him would achieve nothing. So of course she didn't do it. Fucking hell, people. And at the end of it all, she is no longer the king's daughter but the king's cousin. Her value has dropped, and there wouldn't be much point pursuing that angle when Rohan has a young, unwed king. I could also see Frealaf granting her wish to never marry as a boon for her service in the war. I kind of wish that had been shown.
You’re absolutely correct. Her refusal of marriage was entirely moot as the decision and the killing blow that started the war were made by her father. I think her fate becomes that of a messanger for Gandalf in the long term. Were this fate not offered in the film she would likely become a lady in Frealaf’s court, but her lineage would have been a possible cause for strife with suitor lords trying to win her hand as a means to the thrown which is what we had in the beginning. Becoming a messenger is not the out I wanted to see for her in dealing with this potential problem but it’s the one we have.
I wouldn't mind an anthology type series set in the Peter Jackson universe and not the Amazon one. Hopefully this is the first of many animated projects telling stories in this world.
I’m going to cry now every time in Two Towers when the boy says his name is “Haleth, son of Hama.” 😭😭😭 The movie did a GREAT job with the emotional beats
I think it's important to remember that the story is being told by Eowyn, and that oral traditions of history (As well as our own written history) are not always accurate. Eowyn is herself a shield maiden and she is telling a mythologized tale of her people as it was experienced by a shield maiden she admires. It is one of the stories that inspires Eowyn's courage to be the warrior that can defeat the Nazgul Witch King
I think there was nothing added or changed in this movie that was any more egregious than the Jackson trilogy. If you can reconcile that an Uruk Hai with 0 lines in the book can kill a member of the fellowship singlehandedly but can't reconcile a character with 1 line in a 3 page story can kill a character with 3 lines, why? If you can accept Aragon taking Theoden's lines or Eomer taking all of Erkenbrand's moments, but you can't handle a woman taking one moment from a character who comes off as heroic, why? Is it really that you're defending the lore?
@@S4ltyTar0 exactly this, shame to see so many supposed "honest" critics calling this film an abomination of Tolkien, yet it's the most lore accurate adaptation of Tolkien we've ever had.
Really? Come up with a better defense then the fan base is sexist argument, just proves you can't defend the film on its own merit. Changes work, when the story is written well, that's why I don't hear much complaints about PJ films or even about the Shadow of Mordor games that follow the lore even less then this movie did unless its some absolute purist. face it, defending a poorly written movie says a lot about you and your understanding of the Lore. At least I can accept that it wasn't a bad movie but it wasn't a good one......and they didn't actually tell Helm's story here, but Haleth's from the Silmarrion. It was surprisingly, an okay movie. It does have a lot of flaws with the overall story and drags on too long but wasn't hard to watch. Just accept that most people(which is clear considering how much this movie is bombing) don't care that much about bland one dimensional character who never once screws up or turned out to ever be wrong. Even the LOR characters were shown to all have some sort of growth from the beginning of the movies and books to the end, even if they were small growths Helm actually had depth showing him as both a king and a loving father, her brothers had very distinct personalities.....the only change the no name daughter made was going from someone doing all she could to serve her country and then quickly decided to abandoning her country, but at least she wasn't a mary sue, that was more of the old shield maiden who for no reason was issuing commands when there was two Lords there, but they had to show all the remaining men as wishy washy so the women would be propped up(bad writing) A major problem with changing the Lore of having her kill Wulf and then saying that there isn't any songs with her....is saying that Rohan is so sexist they would erase her accomplishments and give them to some one else, that is inexcusable attack on the Lore and doesn't even work when there's not a nation or culture on this earth that has done something like that to one their heroes. What next, that Rohan's songs books say Eomer kill the Nazgul instead of Eowyn.
3:24 It's four Mumakil. The one chasing Héra into the woods, who's getting eaten by the "Watcher in The Water" One is batteled (and defeated) by Helm and his army. There is an overhead shot where you can see two more going towards Edoras. One of them is shot by Héra. One gets it's brain Hit to pieces by Halef.
About the Mumakil - they are actually possible according to the book (although not directly mentioned there). Wulf had allied with the enemies of Gondor who landed in the mouths of Isen and Lefnui (that's said in the House of Eorl chapter), and those enemies were fleets of corsairs from Umbar and Harad (that's said in the chapter about Stewards). So if we assume that Haradrim were able to transport their Mumakil by ship (as Ancient Greeks and Carthaginians definitely were), then Mumakil in Wulf's army are justified. The problem in the movie were not Mumakil themselves, but that they appeared out of nowhere, without any story of Wulf creating an alliance with the Corsairs and gathering his forces (and that would be an interesting story by itself). And the overall composition of Wulf's army that consists only of Dunlendings and Mumakil is very strange - it should consist at least from Wulf's own men (Rohirrim from the West Marches), Dunlendings, Corsairs, Haradrim and cavalry and some Mumakil.
I agree. It was jarring to see the mumakill at first, but after thinking about it for a while I concluded it could possibly make sense, especially after it was stated Wulf was working with mercenaries.
@abrahamwest2005 Yeah, I don't think they came by ship either, I thought it was ridiculous when he said that lol. The movie doesn't say how they got there, I would think it'd be by long-distance travel. Personally, I would have used a different beast instead of using the mumakil to try to score member berry points. I could see why Wulf would want mumakil though, there's not much out there that could hope to stand against an army of rohirim.
@@abrahamwest2005 Why? The great fleets from Harad aiding Wulf were directly mentioned by Tolkien himself. The transportation of war elephants by sea was definitely possible in Antiquity. Carthaginians transported their war elephants to Spain by ship, for example, and Romans used war elephants in Britain according to some sources. There even was a specific type of ships used to transport elephants.
Found myself rooting for Helm's family throughout the movie. Each member of the family brings a cool unique thing to the film. I couldn't agree more on your take with the girl boss thing. I did not really see it in this film either. I think some reviewers were expecting this to be far worse than it was.
I'm a long time Tolkien nerd, and a long time wargamer. For me, part of what makes an adaptation worthwhile is if it "feels" like Middle Earth as I understand it, and if it makes me want to paint miniatures and play games in that setting. War of the Rohirrim did both of those things for me. It "feels" right, and inspired me to paint hundreds of tiny Rohirrim and Dunlendings to play games with. I'd love to see more films done this way!
My girlfriend pointed it out to me but the flashback was so important because it shows wulf lose his temper and stop sparing and actually try and hurt hera, and hera was able to still beat him without trying to hurt him I think that added context to wulf. He didn't lose to the son of helm but the daughter adding to the scorn he got for being a dunlending
Maybe Hera is wild because her father is Helm, It's like having superman for a dad. you'd want to live up to the legend, step out of his shadow and prove yourself sort of thing.
Hey Men of the West, longtime fan, but I think this is my first comment; I really loved my birthday present from Warner, despite having my own criticisms about it, such as the Watcher's appearance, or even the portrayal of Wulf (specifically the fact that we don't get to see him actually win a single fight?), but overall I feel like they truly did the story justice, and even adequately put it into the form of a modern story. Truly a spectacular film, and I feel like your review actually touches on stuff that I didn't even notice myself, such as her donning the dress (specifically what it would have entailed past the aesthetic value).
i am glad to see that there are still people out there who see this movie for how good it really is. It's been very discouraging seeing this movie with literally 1 star on amazon prime.
@liamwilson7549 my area was extremely weird with the movie. One theater sold out the opening day as soon as the tickets became available, but the theater I'd gone to was empty aside from a couple on the far side of the room. It felt like we were allowed to watch it exclusively but it still felt wrong
@@AttilaGaming it was the same for me. I honestly think the movie theater industry is dying. Deadpool was also the same when i went to see it and that had way more attendance globally
Thought it was fantastic, huge fan of Tolkiens work and the Peter Jackson films aswell. I thought this was a beautiful adaptation. Don’t know what the internet’s on about. I’m about as right wing conservative as it gets… still thought it was wonderful. People need to chill and relax… least we get more rings of woke power…
Hey Yoystan I have to hard disagree with this idea that because the story focused on Hera that she must be the one to kill Wulf. How would you feel if at the end of ROP Galadirel defeats Sauron instead of Gil Galad and Elendil. Would that not make sense given her placement in the story? Or what if a made up character was a focus on a lake town film and he were the one to kill Smaug and not Bard. I agree people have thrown too much hate to this film and to Hera, but come on man.
Point taken, but did Frealaf killing Wulf impact the world in a larger way like Elendil and Gil-galad or Bard and Smaug compared to Hera killing Wulf? I just don’t believe it would cause much of a difference there.
@@MenoftheWest it is important for the story of the character, despite the fact that there was less written about that character compared to the others listed before. Take for example Beleg. Have him killed by someone else and the history of middle earth does not necessarily change drastically but it does for the character of Turin. And of course Turin is as deep a character as any but the principle still stands. It is not about the impact in history but about the actual character interactions and what they mean for history. If Frealaf were not to have killed Wulf then let’s say that he maintains control over Rohan. That does impact the story long term. But even if that were not the case I would say that an important moment (whether it was more or less important in the annals of history) for a character which is what is what makes them known should be persevered. I’m not even saying that this ruins the film. It’s something I personally don’t like and they should not have done. Just pointing out that to say that it is not a big deal is kind of contradictory with desiring to preserve the lore. Love your content man and glad to see you on fire about Middle Earth after this viewing!
They minimized Frealaf simply to uplift Hera. It's an insult to Tolkien's lore. Frealaf should've had a much larger role but they couldn't have that. They show absolute contempt for Tolkien's actual story. Frealaf deserved better.
My oldest daughter turned 14yo this weekend, and we went on a daddy/daughter date to see this. We were both very pleased! She knows the Legendarium as “dad’s storybooks” and she’s a fan of anime. We were entering the theater and she saw a monitor “hey there’s an anime - oh it’s lord of the rings - ‘December 13th’ hey that’s today - OHHH!” XD
Speaking as someone who is not an anime fan and went in with low expectations, I liked it a lot. I didn’t care about Helm’s daughter being the protagonist as long as the main story from the appendices remaining intact and it certainly was. Every member of the House of Eorl got moments to shine, Helm, Haleth, Hama, Hera, and Frealaf. I didn’t know what to expect from Hera as a protagonist but I enjoyed her overall. Most of her victories were won by using her wit and cleverness as opposed to being an overpowered character The whole Suthburg/Hornburg thing not being present was annoying but not a deal breaker. I would like it if we got future third age events like the Angmar War or Gondorian Kinstrife were brought to life in animation like this
It by definition did NOT keep the story intact if it focused on Helm’s daughter (who appears in a single paragraph) rather than Helm and his sons (who are the protagonists of the story). Having certain events happen doesn’t keep a story intact. It matters who does them, and Hera was given some big moments that belonged to other characters.
@@mustafakantar3846 I'm really irritated by the "girl boss" label being applied to Hera. She's a badass shield maiden. Why wouldn't you want to watch that?
Me and my friends really liked it. The Watcher is on one hand memberberries, on the other it's very anime and fitting this movie. I would have made Hera and Wolf kill each other for more dramatic/Shakespearian effect, but other than that it's fine. Edit: we just saw it today xd
I know the scene of Hera saying she is the bride of death was kind of cheesy, but my teen daughter was smiling just as big as I was during Helms last stand. The movie was good and was enjoyable.
About she being a girl boss all powerful, I did like the fact that they show how she wasn't that good when she faced an actual lord of Rohan, veteran and traitor and he owned her easily. She won her final battle cus they also showed that Wulf wasn't a strong warrior and implied she had always been better than him.
Why do people not want to give this movie a chance. Likely for one simple reason. They have given out so many chances before with project, such as rings of power, and got burned. They are simply done with the girlboss can do everything. And Hera seems to be just a continuing of this example. In any other time, she might have been overlooked, but right now she is under extra examination with people not willing to give her a chance. Gone are the days of a easier crowd liking your character, Hollywood has lost the good will of the public, and needs to earn it back. That is why people are not willing to give her a chance. Because there are to many attempts already out there, that people are unwilling to give anymore freedom.
"Girlboss can do everything" ??? She certainly isn't a warrior princess, like some claim she is, she never leads Rohans army into battle, she even got bested in combat by the traitor and is saved by a horse. She was forced to stay behind whilst her brothers got to March off to battle. (Even Eowyn, is more of a girlboss in this regard, she sneaks into her father's army and kills the witchking) She needs Frealaf and his army to come to Helms Deep to save them. The idea that she's bailed out at the end by a man completely contradicts the argument that she can do everything. And then because of feudalism she loses her position in Rohan, as expected. There are plenty of L's for Hera in the film.
You’re right about that. No more benefit of the doubt. There were four named male heroes in her family alone who were stepped over to get to a female, and we have her slaying supposedly powerful men and disparaging marriage and her arc is learning to trust in herself, which is all the red flags I can stand.
@@TealWolf26 I can agree, at any other time, she would be fine. Similar issue actually if you were to look at Ahsoka from starwars. If she came into being now, she would be a hard sell. But back when she came into being, it worked, because they also had time to work with her.
@@knightoffailure1869 Similar. I wanted to like this story, but the moment we switched form Helm in the trailer to hera, it gave me pause it showed so much of what other shows and movies have done, and failed to do well.
I think she's wild because her mother died the day she was born, and she's raised by Helm and her two big brothers. Not too many ladies wandering around. I was prepared to dislike her if she was the best at everything, but she sure gets beaten up and rescued a lot 😅😅
Exactly! She's not "girlboss" at all. If anything I'd say her shield maiden assistant was actually the girl boss lol, she never lost a fight even when it didn't make sense. I actually liked Hera.
I try not to get blinded by nostalgia. But I hate how much lack of war there was in a movie called war of the rohirrim. I was expecting a bigger battle scene.
That's a weird complaint to me. Wars do not consist of major battles only. Skirmishes, sieges and so on are also parts of wars and there were a lot of those in the movie.
I wasn't expecting more battle scenes, but I do think the Rohirrim army looked a little bit sloppy. I found myself wondering "where the heck is the rest of the army?! why is no one protecting the king?! where is the rest of the council?!" several times 😅 Perhaps the direction could have been better in that regard.
@@FelarofTheMearh That's true. It is also a bit weird that they added so few named characters. I think that for example the lord of Westfold (and thus the ruler of Hornburg) deserves to be mentioned by name.
For sure, and being that it is anime and they could draw in as many characters as they wanted to, the battle scenes seemed very sparsely populated, like a few hundred people
I am so glad that you took the time to judge the film based on its own merit and how it pertains to the material presented to it. So many of the reviews/critiques are from a certain "anti" group of drama-mongers that probably don't even care about the movies beyond what they can use to incite their viewerbase. It's so terrible that a "good" or "adequately entertaining" film isn't enough these days, and that media outlets are driven by click-bait, contrary titles to earn ad revenue. I honestly have lost all hope and respect for the reviewers that I used to follow, choosing instead to go in blindly from now on. I enjoy movies, and I am tired to being made to feel like less than intelligent for it. Is this a perfect film? Of course not. And that's okay. At the end of the day, the essence of what made The Lord of the Rings and Middle-Earth so great is preserved, and respected, and that's all that I could ask for. I fully intent to support this film in every way possible, from the merch, to the soundtrack and even the map of Rohan... because I know that the click-bait critics will be the reason that this film fails at the box office. But I won't have it said, I didn't do my part to try and continue seeing good adaptations of Tolkien's world brought to the big screen.
I definitely disagree, it simply isn’t upto the standards that an adaptation of Tolkien’s work should be. If you want “good enough” then don’t use the IP of a series which is of much higher quality than you can achieve.
This is my biggest concern with the “anti-woke” channels. In the past they have done a good job calling out the corruption in the entertainment industry. But now Hollywood is backing away from their arrogant mindset a little bit but these anti woke channels are trying to nitpick for quick clicks.
I need to add some beef, so many people upset by the idea of a female warrior when tolkien himself laid the groundwork for this to even be a thing in the first place. Tolkien based the culture of the rohirrim on the anglo-saxon vikings of old, want to know who ragnar lothbrok was married to? Lagertha, a shieldmaiden warrior who ventured with him into battle, this is real history.
The saga of Ragnar Lothbrok is a mythological saga, not a historical one. Anglo-Saxons were not "Vikings", technically nobody was ever called that, but the people being referred to are Norse, Normanni, Danes, etc, etc. I do like the sentiment, but the show Vikings is, unfortunately, a terrible place to learn history.
@ Ragnar is not a myth. The evidence to suggest Ragnar ever lived is scarce, but, crucially, it does exist. Two references to a particularly eminent Viking raider in 840 AD appear in the generally reliable Anglo-Saxon Chronicle which speaks of 'Ragnall' and 'Reginherus'.
This perfectly encapsulates how I feel, having just walked out of the movie theater. I don't know as much more as others, but it's comforting to see how closely it followed! All of the flaws you mentioned I noticed too, but I also enjoyed the movie as a whole. And yes, Helm Hammerhand was AWESOME!!
The film was just OK. The first half was decent, but I think it really fell apart at Helms Deep. Wasn't horrible like a lot of people on RUclips say, but it wasn't great either. Enjoyable but just average.
That's exactly my opinion too. It wasn't great, but it wasn't trash like a lot of internet people are saying. I give it a 5/10 - average. Many people are just parroting ragebait youtuber opinions without taking the time to watch the movie themselves.
Helm dying for no reason killed it for me... just open the door instead of giving the speech. Or have Hera rush to get soldier/archers and then fight them off... They could've made him actually sacrifice himself out in the snow as opposed to dying in front of his own fortress... fakk me
@@wolfsbane9985unfortunately I think you're right in that people are too easily swayed by those condemning this film because of their socio-political views, and thus deny themselves the chance to make up their own minds. And miss out on a fairly entertaining time at the cinema.
I just watched the movie, after collecting my thoughts, and looking at other people's thoughts on it here is my opinion on War of the RohirRim I liked it, it is definitely not as good as Jackson Lord of the Rings. However I don't think it is anywhere near as bad as what most of the comment section says it is either. I personally will be recommending it to my friends and family. Look all I'm saying is they did Helm himself infinity better than whoever that Nazgul pretender was supposed to be in Shadow of War. Of course if you disagree with me that's completely fine, it's always healthy to form your own opinion.
The movie was pretty good all in all. Your rating seems way to generous though. Also seems strange to say adding isn’t changing something. If you add a variable to a math equation it’s fundamentally changed, or if you add ingredients to a recipe it’s clearly changed. Simply changing something isn’t inherently bad though, which is why I would somewhat agree the movie was decent. Just think saying it’s better than the Hobbit films is off the plot.
I chalk up his initial review being so generous because he has an inherent interest to like Lord of the Rings adaptations unless they do absolutely god awful. Not to mention, he probably wants to like it. Especially if it's a near and dear IP to him, he probably genuinely wants to see the good in the film. Maybe after some time after he reflects and the honeymoon buzz wears off he may change his stance. I wouldn't expect a hard change but probably slightly.
14:49 I agree, seeing Helms actions, desperation from 3rd person works really well, especially because he's such a legendary character, larger than life. And experiencing him stalking outside the wall from a 2nd person also ties brilliantly in.
Idk I had fun with the movie why can’t people just have fun and it was beautifully animated I know most people I work with will just regurgitate the negative talking points and then when u say just have fun they get offended it’s just a shame
I might have to watch it then. The reviews I saw said it sucked and so did my friends. Came off as a massive waste of time. Maybe I’ll see it, but I’m probably far more critical than the lot of you that liked it, but if it’s good and the watcher/mumakil are the only weird parts then I think it can be a good movie
Well said and I agree totally with you on your points! I went to go see this with a friend of mine and he enjoyed it, and I'm going with my brother to see it again tonight!
With all due respect, if you thought the lore of this film was accurate, I question your knowledge of the lore. There was a battle at the Fords of Isen between the Rohirrim and the Dunlendings which caused Helm's forces to retreat Súthburg. Wulf's forces ally with Easterling forces to ambush the Rohirrim force during that battle. Wulf then divides his forces to besiege Súthburg and attack Edoras. Haleth fell at Edoras defending it against Wulf's forces. Hama wasn't killed by Wulf, he was lost when he went out during the Long Winter to find supplies. Helm didn't die from one excursion. He made multiple excursions into the winter. Fréaláf didn't just kill Wulf, he actually led an attack to retake Edoras. The movie literally contradicts what was written by Tolkien. The hero of the War of Rohirrim is Fréaláf Hildeson, not some unnamed daughter.
Yeah but YOU know the lore, right? He already mentioned this is a raw review. He is excited for the movie. You regurgitating the story we have already read (because if we are watching these videos, we’ve almost all certainly read it as well) doesn’t make you a Tolkien scholar, it just makes you a gatekeeper. We also know that Christopher Tolkien didn’t like PJs adaptations, so he wouldn’t like any adaptation. That said, this feels like it belongs in PJs LOTR universe, warts and all.
@@MrPiestro If you're not going to follow the basic story, then why call it an adaptation? I didn't regurgitate the basic story, I just laid out the facts that contradict the movie. I never made claim of being a Tolkien scholar. But, I can read his works and make a basic assessment. And this film gives barely lip service to the what was actually written in the books.
@ Barely giving lip service is a wild inaccuracy. The same could be said for PJs adaptations (which I love, yet know they deviate wildly in parts). No Glorfindel, elves at Helms Deep, the list goes on. Yet PJs adaptations do what they intended to do, stick with the spirit and heart of what Tolkien wrote, unlike Rings of Power.
It honestly gave me hope we might see other side stories like Hurin's or more obscure lore being developed like the history of Dol Amroth or the Numenorian civil wars etc. Through these animated adaptations. Whoever says this is worse than ROP is blind, it's far more Tolkien coded than that dumpster fire and at least its watchable. I agree Hera was underdeveloped compared to how developed the movie pretends she is, I wish Frealaf and her brothers got more development too although as you said they are already more fleshed out than they were in the books. I found the whole shield maidens part out of place, like the way it was used felt like the opposite extreme to the whole rohhirim amazons idea. Also Hera's caretaker was the most obnoxious character for me and the actual girlboss/mary sue (almost) character of the film, she also avoided certain death ridiculously too many times for an old woman, be it ex warrior or not. She really should have been cut back a bit or act as a death that inspires Hera, or the whole shield maidens idea used in a moderate way, like a host of tribeswomen living on the mountains of Hornburg coming to assit like the Elves did in the movie version of the battle, to give the legend a bigger point other than "oh look, Hera picked up a shield and the badass granny is badass". Also...did you notice how stupid the rohhirim were? XD like seriously, I counted over 5 losses that could have being averted if at least a few rohirrim remembered what their job is. Anyway, its a nice step forward and gives hope for Gollum. I won't mind a future where we get ,maybe less high budget but still with a Tolkien soul, one animated and one live action middle earth film covering and developing more obscured parts of the lore throughout the years. And I can see the whole inspiration part you mentioned, I saw a few girls around me at the cinema going googly eyed and cheering with some of Hera's scenes, of course what we all wowed on was the Lee cameo, and I really appreciate they just edited archived recordings of his voice instead of using an AI bot to mimic him.
The animation was a bit clunky when they walked. I'm not sure if that was the computer coding or what. It didn't take anything away from the story but I know I'm an odd duck and other people may be bothered by it.
People complaining about Hera being a competent fighter (competent, not unstoppable by any means) are ignoring the fact that she's Helm fucking Hammerhand's daughter and raised along two brothers in a culture that values riding and strength. Her older brother single-handedly killed a whole group riding a Mumakill and the mumakill itself with a single axe. She defeated two different men in single combat, both of which she clearly struggled in and got some assistance in both. People do not need to be treating her like she's the most powerful or badass character in the film and try to use that as a reason to hate her and the film.
I’ve seen a early release of this movie, and I’m sorry this was a mess. Too long with questionable intentions. I understand that since Rings of Power, Tolkien fans are looking for anything….This was a big let down for me. I’m so confused how you stay this story is “right on track” but it’s not, with a lot of liberty.
Hera might not be a girl boss, but she is a bit of a Mary Sue and there certainly is feminism influencing the writing. “Men won’t listen to me, the right to choose, I don’t need no man” everybody telling her how awesome she is, and she had to make the lore breaking kill of Wulf. She already got her protagonist win when she disarmed him. Frealaf should have gotten to kill.
I did really enjoy it, and I absolutely think it was worth seeing. Going to the issue of the "girl-boss" especially in comparison with Helm, we expect Helm to be amazing because he is an older and hardened warrior with *years* of experience. You mention a few times, wishing we could have seen more background for why she is the way she is, I would have also liked a couple scenes establishing *how*. I also am a bit upset that you don't reference the change to the lore with Hama's death... which functionally was so useless in the structure of the story and undercut how absolutely devastating the Long Winter was for both sides of the war. It was frustrating to have a character whose death embodied the threat of starvation and the peril of winter changed to such an easily preventable and futile ending.
Regarding Helm’s “arrogance”. Freca is a lord of Rohan claiming descent from Frèawine, with “much dunlendish blood”, who only came to council when it suits him. Helm has mistrusted him for a while. His first action at this council was to ask for Helms daughters had in marriage. Helm’s response is to call him fat. He then rages and reviles the KING! Did anyone really think he would escape punishment? He’s lucky he wasn’t branded a traitor right then and there, hauled out and executed.
Lot of people are trying to paint Hera as a "Mary Sue." I don't think that's the case. There's a move she uses to disarm a stronger man: and it's a legit HEMA move! She's more skilled than a lot of mooks, but there are times when bigger, stronger men also get the better of her. There are some things where I think the writing could be better, but those are more anime otaku-isms, not girl-boss isms. I think a few male characters are basically simping for her under the surface. Over all, a pretty good film, which I enjoyed seeing in the theater with my wife. It could have stood to be a bit shorter, and some better writing so that Hera would be a bit less capable and a bit more clever, and it would have been perfect. I hope the studio makes more!
The time change is probably due to the changes in the timeline for the movies, since rather than the 17 years in the books, Gandalf is only gone for a few months in The Fellowship of the Ring
It’s become a 20-year long tradition for myself and my father to go to the movies, particularly for the Tolkien adaptations, and he absolutely loved this film. I also really enjoyed it in the same way I enjoy canonically dubious games like Shadow of Mordor. Hera is a non-canon character, but she could potentially fit into the unspoken part of the Appendices. After all, the story of the War of the Rohirrim is basically just a summary that only lasts about 4 pages? My only real harsh criticism against the film is that the animation framerate is inconsistent (going from the standard 24fps to the typical 8-12fps framerate you would see in an anime episode) and that the pacing could drone on in certain moments. As far as the “woke” stuff is concerned, I would urge anyone to avoid any clickbait reviews about that. It is not imo. Hera never came across as the stereotypical “girlboss” tropey protagonist and Helm absolutely stole the show when it came down to it.* Ultimately, I hope this is the beginning of more standalone animated films taking place in the legendarium. If we could get a darker and more polished anime adaptation of Tolkien stories such as The Children of Hurin or The Silmarillion as a whole, that would make me so happy! *[Edit] I honestly have no issues with badass female characters in stories, I’m mainly talking about the disingenuous ways in which Hollywood implements those characters.
Thanks for not being an NPC and having your own opinions instead of parroting the opinions of youtubers. I will say I didn't think the movie was amazing, but not for reasons of wokeness or girl bossing. I still enjoyed it though. I give it a 5 or 6/10 - pretty average, but definitely not trash. It could be better, but i appreciate that it was actually very lore accurate, with the exception of giving Hera a name and giving her the Wulf kill.
The major concern of this film is that the makers of this movie Greatly changed Tolkien's Lore by having Hara, NOT Frealaf, kill Wulf. True lore lovers, in my opinion, should NOT be pleased with this film on this point alone. The creator of the Men of the West Channel, I feel, is too captivated with this film because it is a Peter Jackson Lord of the Rings film, and to his point not thankfully the RoP. Yes, the Girl Boss aspect of this film, while not fully in your face like many other Modern films wish to ideologically portray these days, but because he's so taken with this film, he Greatly looked beyond many of those B Girl Boss moments, such as she made all the right decisions that the Men "failed" to make, that she, and not the horses that she rode, is the best rider in Rohan, that she can climb mountains, get the Eagles to do as she wills, She, not Helm, killed the Snow Troll, and that Helm said that if he had only listened to her, none of these events would have occurred. Finally, at the very beginning of the film where Miranda Otto said that "no where is it written that any of her deeds were ever written", they movie writers Never explained why this was done, particularly considering all of the Super Human feats that She carried out in this film. If anyone else did these acts of greatness, to include leading her people, not once, but twice to safety, Songs, schools, buildings, etc. would have been done in droves in her honor, just as they were done for Eowyn. While the film makers did carry out aspects of Tolkien's Lore to at least technically remain true to his vision, the part that Hera played in this film is in no way true to Tolkien, in particular that she, NOT Frealaf killed Wulf. These points alone do not justify anywhere close to a 9 out of 10 score.
In order to at least maintain Tolkien's Lore, regardless of all of the mentioned Girl Boss aspects this film had, a more fitting end to this character, who in Tolkien's book was not mentioned by name, and therefore to him plays no key role in the further development of Rohan's future, would have been for Hera to have died at the hands of Wulf, and for Frealaf to therefore kill Wulf, as was written by Tolkien. This would have been carried out by Frealaf for two reasons, one out of revenge for the deaths of many of his people, including all of Rohan's Royal Family, Hera included, but also as was the case in the book for the Salvation of Rohan. Since Hera played no role in Rohan's history, the thread I just mentioned would have been at least allowable for the fil. Makers to maintain Hera's Girl Bossness, while at the same time, and most importantly of all, staying True to Tolkien, without whom none of these film creators would have a job at all. Thank you.
@@MichaelHubbard-u9z Thankfully you're not the ultimate arbiter of the fandom, and people who enjoy Tolkien lore are still allowed to enjoy whatever they enjoy and should never be judged for not being a "true lore lover".
Just saw the film today and ill say this...I HATE "Woke" films and this was NOT one of them. Hera was actually surprisingly better than I thought she would be and I would not call her a "girl boss" lol. She is not OP and gets roughed up quite a lot. She also does not overstep her father or brothers. Helm is a major character of the film and arguably the best character. His story is told and it was great. It's okay to not like the film. Everyone has different tastes but I liked it. It has issues for sure and Men of the West touches on a lot of those that I agree with. I'm glad I saw the film and would see it again for sure.
It's too far from a good adaption. I can see they wanna put every element in LOTR into this new movie but ended up ruin the whole story (what the hell are the orcs doing there? They could have removed them without changing the story)
I absolutely agree with your review, love the movie, went in there with little trepidation but enjoyed it from beginning to the end. Going tomorrow to watch it again
I think the wild and free is a characteristic the writers gave hera to avoid the issue of who takes the throne. Lore wise her cousin gets the throne. In terms of who should get it Hera is clearly the rightful heir. So the two options the writers have is kill of Hera (not ideal since she is the protagonist and Helm's story arc) or have her give up the throne. It would have been better for the writers show why she was so wild and free as you said but I think that characteristic was given out of necessity rather that desire.
Low key sad how divided people get over an anime version of like a page and a half of lore. I saw it in theaters without super high expectations, but was SURPRISED by how accurate it was. This conversation isn’t mad divided or anything, but people get so knocked out of shape by the smallest things.
Watched it last Saturday. My husband and I enjoyed it a lot. I really loved how the story of Helm Hammerhand told. I don't know why but hearing the LOTR theme was nostalgic. The posthumous voicing of Saruman, that touched me for some reasons. Totally an enjoying movie.
16:57 If she were actually FOR Rohan then she would have been raised to know that her duty is to marry for the betterment of the realm. The reason she does not say she is the bride of Rohan is because she rejected her duty.
She didn't, though. Not actually. It was pretty clear Helm had not discussed the Gondorian offer with her at all yet, so she couldn't have rejected it. It was Helm who rejected Fréca's offer, and rightly so- his desire to usurp the throne was obvious. Héra tells Wulf that she doesn't want to marry anyone because she's reassuring him that her objection isn't to him personally and isn't because of his Dunlanding blood. Their dads are already outside throwing down at that point, and no one else was there. That was a personal conversation, not an official, political one. If Helm hadn't one-punch killed Fréca and banished Wulf, perhaps a more official conversation would have been had. But Helm's actions made the war, not Héra's private conversation with an old friend. She is even willing to accept Wulf's offer at Isengard in order to save Rohan. It is Wulf who rejects that option because of his personal feelings. And once he's made it clear her wedding him would not prevent the attack, there is no point to her doing so. A bride as an assurance of peace doesn't work when the husband has no intention of honoring that bargain.
Frealaf is done dirty. He was never banished. He killed Wulf. He was savior of Rohan. He was most worthy to establish the new line of Kings. Most of his feats were given to Hera, who could do no wrong in this movie. She has no arc. She starts as a free willed woman who don’t need no man and ends as a free willed woman who don’t need no man. Her and Olwyn are the epitome of idealized post modern feminist. Phoebe Gittens and Phillepa Boyens self inserts into a Tolkien adaptation IMO. At least the rumor of Amazonian tribe of women did not occur.
Yeah because of this, I won't be spending my money watching this movie. Sorry, if you want a strong female character, write your own story and stop hijacking someone else's story arc to do so.
Personally, I had no issue with the "I don't want to marry" bit. Considering that the line of Helm does end, it is clear that even in the Tolkien timeline that she remained unmarried (assuming she even survived the events)
I respectfully disagree. Freáláf is a wise and loyal character in the film, worthy of being king. He even has quite a bit of involvement in the first part of the film, advising his uncle and helping to rescue Héra from Isengard. He is then temporarily removed from the plot and, like the lore, remains isolated in Dunharrow during the Long Winter (so it was difficult to make him the main protagonist). And despite not being the one to kill Wulf, they win the final battle thanks to him. You can argue and disagree with the details and dramatic licenses that the film takes but in general it is quite faithful to what was written, it changes almost nothing
@@lnwolf7563yes, perhaps he should had be the one who killed Wulf, but the final battle is still won thanks to him. All the events remain almost in the same way as in the book
Here's a write-up of some of my thoughts, I left this in response to another commenter on your Facebook page. It sums up my general feelings on the film: [ I thought it was okay. Not bad, pretty good even. It didn't make me mad like Rings of Power and The Hobbit trilogy did. They didn't try to shoehorn a bunch of unnecessary BS into it that shat on existing lore or anything like that, which was good. I think they tread carefully lorewise and did a pretty good job adding detail to that story without fundamentally changing it. I thought it was a bit cheesy at times. I didn't always love the dialogue. For example, Helm Hammerfist said "that's none of your business!" or something like that, some kinda current figures of speech in there that are very non-Tolkien, non fantasy / old English in there. And recycling some famous quotes or scenes from the LOTR series in the film, felt kind of cheap like "hey remember this line/scene you loved from the trilogy?" instead of having it's own really memorable lines or speeches or something. If that makes sense. Art style was interesting. Different of course. I'm not an anime fan, but that's not because of the art style specifically. Looked pretty good. Had some fun fight scenes, and I think the anime art style gave it some license to have those fight scenes be unrealistic and "cartoonish" , like some of Legolas's fight scenes in the LOTR trilogy. If you know what I mean. Some fun, cartoonish fight scenes like you'd see in an anime, and it doesn't have to be realistic because it's animated anyways. Overall though I thought it did a pretty good job of telling it's own story, using the little detailed existing lore we have (Helm Hammerfist killed someone with one punch and got that name, and Helms Deep was named after him after a last stand there, etc), without treading on other parts of the legendarium in an poorly done / disrespectful way like other LOTR spinoffs have. It's worth a watch. Though I don't think it's some amazing classic that I'll be rewatching regularly or anything. Maybe a 6.5 or 7 out of 10 or something? That's just my opinion anyways. Interested to hear what Yoysten thought!]. That was my comment. Now let the records show I am a bigger Tolkien nerd than most casual fans, and have read the main LOTR trilogy, the Hobbit and the Silmarillion multiple times each, as well as Children of Hurin, Fall of Gondolin, and the Unfinished Tales. HOWEVER, I am NOT a loremaster with an encyclopedic knowledge of every sidestory / supplemental lore, so someone like you Yoysten and probably some of the other commenters might have noticed more lore discrepancies than I did. But overall I was happy with how they handled it from a lore PoV, there were just other parts of it that make me say the movie was pretty good, but not great.
Going to see this tomorrow~ i am excited for it, and i am glad that everything I've said about Hera sounds accurate, i like that she's a protagonist.. I am glad that it's an anime honestly, i love anime (fate/stay night and the like) i prefer it a lot of the time.. because with animation the people making things pour their creativity into everything in a way that i rarely see in live action.. I'm looking forward to the future again as far as Tolkien content, and that hasn't been the case for a very long time Thank you for giving a constructive review
I don't think I liked it as much as you did, there were quirks like turning shieldmaidens into some kind of a faction rather than a cultural practice that Rohirrim embrace in general in moments of crisis (or some more priviledged Rohirrim woman can do), which you mentioned, that made my eyebrow rise, but I found the technical aspects of the animation the most underdeveloped. I wonder if at some point this might have been considered for streaming release instead of a cinematic one and hence why WB didn't really put as much resources as was needed into it. However I did enjoy it overall, probably more than Hobbit movies and definitely more than that RoP travesty of a pseudoadaptation. Not sure if it's a movie I will be particularly into rewatching, but I might go back to some scenes from time to time and I would like to take a closer look into some background details they came up with such as heraldry of different regions and subfactions.
I really enjoyed the movie. I think we could nitpick for hours but let’s be realistic, we aren’t going to get a word to screen movie. Peter Jackson made major changes and yet we love the movies. This movie felt like LORT not just an anime that says it’s LORT. I understand some of the frustration, I love Tolkien more than any other author, and LOTR is my favorite series. However; if we have the most unrealistic expectations for every project we can miss good things. I think this movie is good, as a Tolkien purest, I enjoyed it. Is it perfect? Of course not. However, it is good.
I’m glad other people enjoyed this film as well. It wasn’t perfect but it doesn’t deserve the hate. I personally really enjoyed it and loved that it didn’t lean into everyone’s nostalgia for the trilogy. It was earnest and with the nostalgic reboots/sequels/remakes we get these days, that’s a breath of fresh air.
Why did this show underperform so badly? I've never seen it yet. Amazon just ruined me with their vomit they called Wheel of Time and Rings Of Power. Any suggestions before I watch this show or just jump in?
It got little advertising, the anime aesthetic is still pretty niche, Rings of Power has soured people to Middle-Earth adaptations after the Hobbit movies already made people have mixed feelings, and the focus on Hera as the movie's Mary Sue protagonist was a big turnoff for a lot of people on top of the fact that this movie is a blatant rights' retainer so that WB can make the prequel stories that they actually wanted to make. It never stood a chance with those odds. I'm gonna check it out for myself when it hits streaming but it's no wonder the general audience either wasn't aware of it or mostly passed if they were.
This makes me want an Eldacar/Kinstrife adaptation all the more. Although maybe without Mumakil, Watchers, Eagles, and whatnot lol. Something like a tale from the Silmarillion would definitely fit the artform more.
I think the Shield maiden were honnord by what they did.. it was mentioned in the movie.. they where the only left to fight White the man where killed.. so not a faction but a courage acceptation what they did..
Definitively Yes! It takes some liberties with Tolkiens legendarium but it doesn't butcher it completely. You can watch it and enjoy it. It may not be a masterpiece but you can have an entertaining evening at the cinema with it.
This is repeating old stories we have already read for 100 times in different medias, power of ring is a failure in trying to create new stpry, depends on which one you think is worse.
It was quite good. The only thing I would change is having Frealaf kill Wulf instead of Hera to show he was still loyal to Rohan, but otherwise, it was well done.
They had at least 4 mumakil. Also, Hera killing wulf in the context of frealaf riding in to route wulf’s army still could be justifiably stated as frealaf killing wulf by extension. 🤷🏼♂️
Saw it today and really enjoyed it! I'm not necessarily a huge anime fan, but I thought it was the perfect vehicle for this story. They captured the lore, while the additions were plausible and enjoyable. Yes, I vote for more!
Mmm good review mostly on the story and lore. But let’s be clear. The production quality is NOT good. The anime quality is terrible, cheap. Also as you said, we lack some of the moments that make LOTR, when they slow down and spend time to reflect on characters, ideas. This feels too action packed. Also it lacks scale, there s very few characters on screen. Lack of budget?
I’m glad to not be the only one that felt like the animation quality was SO STIFF. In my opinion the story was actually pretty decent! I quite liked how focused it was on one kingdom, as a new viewer of all the lord of the rings movies (and soon to be books!) it’s quite hard to keep track of all the places on the map. This movie helped me to see more of how connected everything really is 😅 Like Saruman at the end??? I don’t even realize how old he really is omg
Welp... The good news is that hopefully this will bring more people to the books (source material). I just wish the Tolkien Estate would've respected the late Christopher Tolkien and J.R.R. Tolkien's wishes; they wished no characters would be perverted from their book counterparts, and the themes would remain true to the source material. Yet, this film, and Rings Of Power do not respect Tolkien's wishes (that came from his own mouth and letters).
Exactly, I can’t imagine Tolkien would have no criticisms of the original trilogy but this feels like a big step further away with the dialogue and very significant character deviations/additions
I would give it a 6/10. Was it bad? No. Great? No (but easily could have been). I think a simple fix would make it great. Save Helm’s death for the end. While Wulf, Hera, and Frealaf are fighting, at the same time Helm is defending the Hornburg as shown. Once *Frealaf* makes the killing blow (he needs a win and Hera already won a duel disarming Wulf) they go to the gate to find Helm frozen in place. This would allow the audience to soak in Helm’s death more and authenticating Frealaf as king rather than Hera just giving up the title cuz she doesn’t want it and be lore accurate.
We’re all free to have different opinions but personally, I was surprised how much I enjoyed this film. However, I think there were many changes I would have made to the story. 1. Instead of having Héra refuse Wulf’s hand in marriage at the Witan, have her accept it to try and avoid conflict between Helm and Freca and have it be Helm who acts impulsively by turning Freca down. That way the “I should have listened to you” moment from Helm at the end would’ve made more sense and Héra saying “everything you’ve done is for your people” would’ve been more impactful as it would’ve shown Héra’s growth, a moment of her finally understanding her father’s actions. 2. Héra should’ve died. It would’ve been a more poetic way to end her character to have her sacrificing herself in the place where her father died. Let Wulf get all that he wants in the end only to find he is still unhappy. He can then return to the ruins of Edoras to declare himself kings and the moment of realization that he gained nothing would set in on him. There, Frealaf would show up killing him and taking the throne as he is supposed to in the book.
I do not think that Héra should’ve died. But I think it would be better if she travelled to Dunharrow herself (by the help of the eagles), convinced Frealaf to attack Edoras while most of Wulf's army are still occupied at Hornburg (Frealaf did not know that, he might think that Hornburg had fallen and any future resistance is futile) and joined the attack ("to revenge my brothers and my father"). Then she could have her duel with Wulf in Meduseld and either lose, fall wounded and be revenged by Frealaf, or (even better) Wulf, while loosing. would cheat (almost as he did in the movie) and order his men to attack, so Frealaf could help Hera and kill Wulf in general melee.
That would honestly be great. I also feel as though the wedding dress should have been from Wulf. Would have made more sense and would have saved time by getting rid of a pretty pointless character in the old woman.
Definitely should have been the Bride of Rohan over Death. Her whole ploy was to give her people time to escape, LIFE. Also, the wedding dress wasn't as visually striking as it could have been when she's already been wearing white the whole movie. Just my take.
while youre correct they call them southrons, that was specifically a southron who was dead, the easterlings wore a different uniform more akin to an asian plated warrior
@@nickellis6530 indeed, we can only speculate which of the factions were present in the war at the time. Tolkien wrote that Rohan is attacked from the west (Dunlendings), South (Corsairs) and East (Haradrim and/or Easterlings)
It was a great experience to watch this film. I loved it. There were some moments I thought were different than I’d have done them, some were even a little silly, but what of that can’t be said about the Peter Jackson trilogy? This was so much fun. Such a good movie.
I do agree that overall it’s solid. I’d probably give it a 7/10. After just having my first view tonight, I don’t like the member berries much. Rings of power has kind of ruined them. The music coming back was a beautiful touch. I would’ve been fine with a line here or there but especially early on I feel like there was several that was a bit much. I felt also at first that if you changed the title and it almost could’ve been any anime ever. I wasn’t over fond of freca. But I do think the movie was quite solid and there’s a LOT of overreaction to this movie. I’m not an anime watcher AT ALL. And I’d still rate it quite highly. I wish they would have done a few less member berries and done a bit more visual showing of connections to the trilogy as opposed to having people repeat or almost act out mannerisms from the trilogy. And then I agree. Wish they would’ve shown and not told us when Hera was getting so good at riding or fighting or anything like that.
While not perfect, this is an AMAZING adaptation. I hope for more like it! Well done to all who worked on it.
very excited to see you enjoyed it, animated Middle Earth is something I want more of and have wanted more of for over 20 years
@@endermanwithalowercasee it was sadly very amateurish, felt phoned in and rushed and the plot paper thin. Its the kind of movie you watch on a Saturday afternoon at home not on the big screen.
Shills of the West, I bid you STAND DOWN. Quit tacking on an extra 50% to anything with LOTR in the title.
Bro, the real story is about Helm, and in this they subvert him for the made up Hera. Fundamentally the lore is already broken, what do you mean its 95% accurate to the lore?!?!?!
@@SullyRose15 Helm does indeed have a daughter, yes not named. Only thing changed is that she kills Wulf. This is the most lore accurate of any adaptation. Helps the lore is like 2 pages. Nobody's story was subverted. Nothing about helm was suppressed to make way for Hera. There simply doesn't exist a lot of lore about any of the characters in the first place.
Helm himself is amazing and really proves the idea that for a country to be strong it needs a strong leader. Not a dictator but a person who is unafraid and confronts challenges.
I really do not understand why people are claiming the entire war was Héra's fault when it was Helm who officially refused Fréca's marriage offer. The most we get out of Héra on the subject is her private conversation with Wulf where she says it is not that she doesn't want to marry *him*, but that she doesn't want to marry *anyone* (and said very demurely, I might add, with no rant about men or patriarchy anywhere in this film). It was very clear by her reaction that Helm had not even told her about the Gondorian offer yet. She never had a chance to refuse. And Helm refused for solid reasons- Fréca wanted the throne. Marrying Héra off to Wulf would not have actually satisfied him.
And when Wulf offers marriage again, at Isengard, SHE IS WILLING TO DO IT provided he agrees to call off the attack. That is a 100% reasonable requirement tactically, culturally, and real-world historically. Noble women in Anglo Saxon society were referred to as "peaceweavers" for this exact reason- they would be wed to an enemy lord or his son to end the conflict, and then sons would be fostered at each court to further continue the bond and act as insurance. Héra in that scene IS performing her culturally correct, gendered duty against her own desires. Again, it is the man who refuses - Wulf gets pissy because she isn't marrying him for him and would instead be marrying him as a bargain. Wulf made it very clear he had no intention of respecting tradition and would be a terrible king, and that Héra wedding him would achieve nothing. So of course she didn't do it. Fucking hell, people.
And at the end of it all, she is no longer the king's daughter but the king's cousin. Her value has dropped, and there wouldn't be much point pursuing that angle when Rohan has a young, unwed king. I could also see Frealaf granting her wish to never marry as a boon for her service in the war. I kind of wish that had been shown.
You’re absolutely correct. Her refusal of marriage was entirely moot as the decision and the killing blow that started the war were made by her father.
I think her fate becomes that of a messanger for Gandalf in the long term. Were this fate not offered in the film she would likely become a lady in Frealaf’s court, but her lineage would have been a possible cause for strife with suitor lords trying to win her hand as a means to the thrown which is what we had in the beginning. Becoming a messenger is not the out I wanted to see for her in dealing with this potential problem but it’s the one we have.
I wouldn't mind an anthology type series set in the Peter Jackson universe and not the Amazon one. Hopefully this is the first of many animated projects telling stories in this world.
Same here! A few stories about what a younger Galadriel was actually like or what Numenor was actually like would be nice.
Absolutely yes to this!!!!!!!
Read the book of Unfinished Tales. It has stories of exactly this
From the way it ended if it is successful I could definitely see more movies coming they left it open to make more.
Better yet, how about an anthology type series set in the J.R.R. Tolkien universe? Crazy suggestion, I know.
I’m going to cry now every time in Two Towers when the boy says his name is “Haleth, son of Hama.” 😭😭😭 The movie did a GREAT job with the emotional beats
I think it's important to remember that the story is being told by Eowyn, and that oral traditions of history (As well as our own written history) are not always accurate.
Eowyn is herself a shield maiden and she is telling a mythologized tale of her people as it was experienced by a shield maiden she admires.
It is one of the stories that inspires Eowyn's courage to be the warrior that can defeat the Nazgul Witch King
Fantastic point! 👍
I think there was nothing added or changed in this movie that was any more egregious than the Jackson trilogy. If you can reconcile that an Uruk Hai with 0 lines in the book can kill a member of the fellowship singlehandedly but can't reconcile a character with 1 line in a 3 page story can kill a character with 3 lines, why? If you can accept Aragon taking Theoden's lines or Eomer taking all of Erkenbrand's moments, but you can't handle a woman taking one moment from a character who comes off as heroic, why? Is it really that you're defending the lore?
@@S4ltyTar0 exactly this, shame to see so many supposed "honest" critics calling this film an abomination of Tolkien, yet it's the most lore accurate adaptation of Tolkien we've ever had.
Careful, you have reasonable takes and you’ll get crucified
Really? Come up with a better defense then the fan base is sexist argument, just proves you can't defend the film on its own merit.
Changes work, when the story is written well, that's why I don't hear much complaints about PJ films or even about the Shadow of Mordor games that follow the lore even less then this movie did unless its some absolute purist.
face it, defending a poorly written movie says a lot about you and your understanding of the Lore. At least I can accept that it wasn't a bad movie but it wasn't a good one......and they didn't actually tell Helm's story here, but Haleth's from the Silmarrion.
It was surprisingly, an okay movie. It does have a lot of flaws with the overall story and drags on too long but wasn't hard to watch. Just accept that most people(which is clear considering how much this movie is bombing) don't care that much about bland one dimensional character who never once screws up or turned out to ever be wrong. Even the LOR characters were shown to all have some sort of growth from the beginning of the movies and books to the end, even if they were small growths
Helm actually had depth showing him as both a king and a loving father, her brothers had very distinct personalities.....the only change the no name daughter made was going from someone doing all she could to serve her country and then quickly decided to abandoning her country, but at least she wasn't a mary sue, that was more of the old shield maiden who for no reason was issuing commands when there was two Lords there, but they had to show all the remaining men as wishy washy so the women would be propped up(bad writing)
A major problem with changing the Lore of having her kill Wulf and then saying that there isn't any songs with her....is saying that Rohan is so sexist they would erase her accomplishments and give them to some one else, that is inexcusable attack on the Lore and doesn't even work when there's not a nation or culture on this earth that has done something like that to one their heroes. What next, that Rohan's songs books say Eomer kill the Nazgul instead of Eowyn.
3:24 It's four Mumakil. The one chasing Héra into the woods, who's getting eaten by the "Watcher in The Water"
One is batteled (and defeated) by Helm and his army.
There is an overhead shot where you can see two more going towards Edoras.
One of them is shot by Héra.
One gets it's brain Hit to pieces by Halef.
About the Mumakil - they are actually possible according to the book (although not directly mentioned there).
Wulf had allied with the enemies of Gondor who landed in the mouths of Isen and Lefnui (that's said in the House of Eorl chapter), and those enemies were fleets of corsairs from Umbar and Harad (that's said in the chapter about Stewards). So if we assume that Haradrim were able to transport their Mumakil by ship (as Ancient Greeks and Carthaginians definitely were), then Mumakil in Wulf's army are justified.
The problem in the movie were not Mumakil themselves, but that they appeared out of nowhere, without any story of Wulf creating an alliance with the Corsairs and gathering his forces (and that would be an interesting story by itself). And the overall composition of Wulf's army that consists only of Dunlendings and Mumakil is very strange - it should consist at least from Wulf's own men (Rohirrim from the West Marches), Dunlendings, Corsairs, Haradrim and cavalry and some Mumakil.
I agree. It was jarring to see the mumakill at first, but after thinking about it for a while I concluded it could possibly make sense, especially after it was stated Wulf was working with mercenaries.
There is no way they got there by ship. It was lazy writing
@abrahamwest2005 Yeah, I don't think they came by ship either, I thought it was ridiculous when he said that lol. The movie doesn't say how they got there, I would think it'd be by long-distance travel. Personally, I would have used a different beast instead of using the mumakil to try to score member berry points. I could see why Wulf would want mumakil though, there's not much out there that could hope to stand against an army of rohirim.
@@abrahamwest2005 Why? The great fleets from Harad aiding Wulf were directly mentioned by Tolkien himself. The transportation of war elephants by sea was definitely possible in Antiquity. Carthaginians transported their war elephants to Spain by ship, for example, and Romans used war elephants in Britain according to some sources. There even was a specific type of ships used to transport elephants.
@@АнтонОрлов-я1ъI suppose the question is how heavy are mumakil compared to elephants? Genuine question.
Found myself rooting for Helm's family throughout the movie. Each member of the family brings a cool unique thing to the film. I couldn't agree more on your take with the girl boss thing. I did not really see it in this film either. I think some reviewers were expecting this to be far worse than it was.
I'm a long time Tolkien nerd, and a long time wargamer. For me, part of what makes an adaptation worthwhile is if it "feels" like Middle Earth as I understand it, and if it makes me want to paint miniatures and play games in that setting.
War of the Rohirrim did both of those things for me. It "feels" right, and inspired me to paint hundreds of tiny Rohirrim and Dunlendings to play games with. I'd love to see more films done this way!
My girlfriend pointed it out to me but the flashback was so important because it shows wulf lose his temper and stop sparing and actually try and hurt hera, and hera was able to still beat him without trying to hurt him
I think that added context to wulf.
He didn't lose to the son of helm but the daughter adding to the scorn he got for being a dunlending
Maybe Hera is wild because her father is Helm, It's like having superman for a dad. you'd want to live up to the legend, step out of his shadow and prove yourself sort of thing.
It's probably because she was raised by a family of warrior men, no mom, and a warrior shieldmaid as a substitute.
@Van-xk7gn very good point, you're probably right about that. Recipe for a tom boy
Hey Men of the West, longtime fan, but I think this is my first comment; I really loved my birthday present from Warner, despite having my own criticisms about it, such as the Watcher's appearance, or even the portrayal of Wulf (specifically the fact that we don't get to see him actually win a single fight?), but overall I feel like they truly did the story justice, and even adequately put it into the form of a modern story. Truly a spectacular film, and I feel like your review actually touches on stuff that I didn't even notice myself, such as her donning the dress (specifically what it would have entailed past the aesthetic value).
i am glad to see that there are still people out there who see this movie for how good it really is. It's been very discouraging seeing this movie with literally 1 star on amazon prime.
@liamwilson7549 my area was extremely weird with the movie. One theater sold out the opening day as soon as the tickets became available, but the theater I'd gone to was empty aside from a couple on the far side of the room. It felt like we were allowed to watch it exclusively but it still felt wrong
@@AttilaGaming it was the same for me. I honestly think the movie theater industry is dying. Deadpool was also the same when i went to see it and that had way more attendance globally
Thought it was fantastic, huge fan of Tolkiens work and the Peter Jackson films aswell. I thought this was a beautiful adaptation. Don’t know what the internet’s on about. I’m about as right wing conservative as it gets… still thought it was wonderful. People need to chill and relax… least we get more rings of woke power…
Hey Yoystan I have to hard disagree with this idea that because the story focused on Hera that she must be the one to kill Wulf. How would you feel if at the end of ROP Galadirel defeats Sauron instead of Gil Galad and Elendil. Would that not make sense given her placement in the story? Or what if a made up character was a focus on a lake town film and he were the one to kill Smaug and not Bard. I agree people have thrown too much hate to this film and to Hera, but come on man.
Point taken, but did Frealaf killing Wulf impact the world in a larger way like Elendil and Gil-galad or Bard and Smaug compared to Hera killing Wulf? I just don’t believe it would cause much of a difference there.
@@MenoftheWest it is important for the story of the character, despite the fact that there was less written about that character compared to the others listed before. Take for example Beleg. Have him killed by someone else and the history of middle earth does not necessarily change drastically but it does for the character of Turin. And of course Turin is as deep a character as any but the principle still stands. It is not about the impact in history but about the actual character interactions and what they mean for history.
If Frealaf were not to have killed Wulf then let’s say that he maintains control over Rohan. That does impact the story long term. But even if that were not the case I would say that an important moment (whether it was more or less important in the annals of history) for a character which is what is what makes them known should be persevered.
I’m not even saying that this ruins the film. It’s something I personally don’t like and they should not have done. Just pointing out that to say that it is not a big deal is kind of contradictory with desiring to preserve the lore.
Love your content man and glad to see you on fire about Middle Earth after this viewing!
@@TheJmlew11hell him killing wulf probably helped him in establishing his reputation as king and made the transition smoother
They minimized Frealaf simply to uplift Hera. It's an insult to Tolkien's lore. Frealaf should've had a much larger role but they couldn't have that. They show absolute contempt for Tolkien's actual story. Frealaf deserved better.
@@calus7958who cares?
My oldest daughter turned 14yo this weekend, and we went on a daddy/daughter date to see this. We were both very pleased! She knows the Legendarium as “dad’s storybooks” and she’s a fan of anime. We were entering the theater and she saw a monitor “hey there’s an anime - oh it’s lord of the rings - ‘December 13th’ hey that’s today - OHHH!” XD
Speaking as someone who is not an anime fan and went in with low expectations, I liked it a lot.
I didn’t care about Helm’s daughter being the protagonist as long as the main story from the appendices remaining intact and it certainly was.
Every member of the House of Eorl got moments to shine, Helm, Haleth, Hama, Hera, and Frealaf.
I didn’t know what to expect from Hera as a protagonist but I enjoyed her overall. Most of her victories were won by using her wit and cleverness as opposed to being an overpowered character
The whole Suthburg/Hornburg thing not being present was annoying but not a deal breaker.
I would like it if we got future third age events like the Angmar War or Gondorian Kinstrife were brought to life in animation like this
It by definition did NOT keep the story intact if it focused on Helm’s daughter (who appears in a single paragraph) rather than Helm and his sons (who are the protagonists of the story). Having certain events happen doesn’t keep a story intact. It matters who does them, and Hera was given some big moments that belonged to other characters.
This is the only review that felt right. The girl boss narrative some people are pushing makes no sense. I agree with your take 100%
@@mustafakantar3846 I'm really irritated by the "girl boss" label being applied to Hera. She's a badass shield maiden. Why wouldn't you want to watch that?
Liked hearing the Howard Shore themes, seeing the orcs looking for rings (voiced by Billy Boyd and Dominic Monaghan). Saruman at the end.
Me and my friends really liked it. The Watcher is on one hand memberberries, on the other it's very anime and fitting this movie.
I would have made Hera and Wolf kill each other for more dramatic/Shakespearian effect, but other than that it's fine.
Edit: we just saw it today xd
Same. I was kinda disappointed when she didn't die.
I know the scene of Hera saying she is the bride of death was kind of cheesy, but my teen daughter was smiling just as big as I was during Helms last stand. The movie was good and was enjoyable.
About she being a girl boss all powerful, I did like the fact that they show how she wasn't that good when she faced an actual lord of Rohan, veteran and traitor and he owned her easily. She won her final battle cus they also showed that Wulf wasn't a strong warrior and implied she had always been better than him.
Why do people not want to give this movie a chance.
Likely for one simple reason. They have given out so many chances before with project, such as rings of power, and got burned.
They are simply done with the girlboss can do everything. And Hera seems to be just a continuing of this example. In any other time, she might have been overlooked, but right now she is under extra examination with people not willing to give her a chance.
Gone are the days of a easier crowd liking your character, Hollywood has lost the good will of the public, and needs to earn it back.
That is why people are not willing to give her a chance. Because there are to many attempts already out there, that people are unwilling to give anymore freedom.
I think she's fine, not perfect, but serviceable in the role. Needed better writing but I don't mind the overall story.
"Girlboss can do everything" ???
She certainly isn't a warrior princess, like some claim she is, she never leads Rohans army into battle, she even got bested in combat by the traitor and is saved by a horse.
She was forced to stay behind whilst her brothers got to March off to battle. (Even Eowyn, is more of a girlboss in this regard, she sneaks into her father's army and kills the witchking)
She needs Frealaf and his army to come to Helms Deep to save them. The idea that she's bailed out at the end by a man completely contradicts the argument that she can do everything.
And then because of feudalism she loses her position in Rohan, as expected.
There are plenty of L's for Hera in the film.
You’re right about that. No more benefit of the doubt. There were four named male heroes in her family alone who were stepped over to get to a female, and we have her slaying supposedly powerful men and disparaging marriage and her arc is learning to trust in herself, which is all the red flags I can stand.
@@TealWolf26 I can agree, at any other time, she would be fine. Similar issue actually if you were to look at Ahsoka from starwars. If she came into being now, she would be a hard sell. But back when she came into being, it worked, because they also had time to work with her.
@@knightoffailure1869 Similar. I wanted to like this story, but the moment we switched form Helm in the trailer to hera, it gave me pause it showed so much of what other shows and movies have done, and failed to do well.
I think she's wild because her mother died the day she was born, and she's raised by Helm and her two big brothers. Not too many ladies wandering around. I was prepared to dislike her if she was the best at everything, but she sure gets beaten up and rescued a lot 😅😅
Exactly! She's not "girlboss" at all. If anything I'd say her shield maiden assistant was actually the girl boss lol, she never lost a fight even when it didn't make sense. I actually liked Hera.
The next adaptation I'd like to see from the Third Age is the Kin Strife.
I try not to get blinded by nostalgia. But I hate how much lack of war there was in a movie called war of the rohirrim. I was expecting a bigger battle scene.
Right! But I guess the siege of the rohirrum isn't as good a title 😅
That's a weird complaint to me. Wars do not consist of major battles only. Skirmishes, sieges and so on are also parts of wars and there were a lot of those in the movie.
I wasn't expecting more battle scenes, but I do think the Rohirrim army looked a little bit sloppy. I found myself wondering "where the heck is the rest of the army?! why is no one protecting the king?! where is the rest of the council?!" several times 😅 Perhaps the direction could have been better in that regard.
@@FelarofTheMearh That's true. It is also a bit weird that they added so few named characters. I think that for example the lord of Westfold (and thus the ruler of Hornburg) deserves to be mentioned by name.
For sure, and being that it is anime and they could draw in as many characters as they wanted to, the battle scenes seemed very sparsely populated, like a few hundred people
I am so glad that you took the time to judge the film based on its own merit and how it pertains to the material presented to it. So many of the reviews/critiques are from a certain "anti" group of drama-mongers that probably don't even care about the movies beyond what they can use to incite their viewerbase. It's so terrible that a "good" or "adequately entertaining" film isn't enough these days, and that media outlets are driven by click-bait, contrary titles to earn ad revenue. I honestly have lost all hope and respect for the reviewers that I used to follow, choosing instead to go in blindly from now on. I enjoy movies, and I am tired to being made to feel like less than intelligent for it.
Is this a perfect film? Of course not. And that's okay. At the end of the day, the essence of what made The Lord of the Rings and Middle-Earth so great is preserved, and respected, and that's all that I could ask for. I fully intent to support this film in every way possible, from the merch, to the soundtrack and even the map of Rohan... because I know that the click-bait critics will be the reason that this film fails at the box office. But I won't have it said, I didn't do my part to try and continue seeing good adaptations of Tolkien's world brought to the big screen.
I definitely disagree, it simply isn’t upto the standards that an adaptation of Tolkien’s work should be. If you want “good enough” then don’t use the IP of a series which is of much higher quality than you can achieve.
This is my biggest concern with the “anti-woke” channels. In the past they have done a good job calling out the corruption in the entertainment industry. But now Hollywood is backing away from their arrogant mindset a little bit but these anti woke channels are trying to nitpick for quick clicks.
Thank you for this 😊
I need to add some beef, so many people upset by the idea of a female warrior when tolkien himself laid the groundwork for this to even be a thing in the first place. Tolkien based the culture of the rohirrim on the anglo-saxon vikings of old, want to know who ragnar lothbrok was married to? Lagertha, a shieldmaiden warrior who ventured with him into battle, this is real history.
Oh stop. That's nowhere near as common as Hollywood likes to think.
Not the point.
@@slade52 it absolutely was the point, tolkien himself said in an interview he wanted some form of representation for women in his work
The saga of Ragnar Lothbrok is a mythological saga, not a historical one.
Anglo-Saxons were not "Vikings", technically nobody was ever called that, but the people being referred to are Norse, Normanni, Danes, etc, etc.
I do like the sentiment, but the show Vikings is, unfortunately, a terrible place to learn history.
@ Ragnar is not a myth. The evidence to suggest Ragnar ever lived is scarce, but, crucially, it does exist. Two references to a particularly eminent Viking raider in 840 AD appear in the generally reliable Anglo-Saxon Chronicle which speaks of 'Ragnall' and 'Reginherus'.
This perfectly encapsulates how I feel, having just walked out of the movie theater. I don't know as much more as others, but it's comforting to see how closely it followed! All of the flaws you mentioned I noticed too, but I also enjoyed the movie as a whole. And yes, Helm Hammerhand was AWESOME!!
The film was just OK. The first half was decent, but I think it really fell apart at Helms Deep. Wasn't horrible like a lot of people on RUclips say, but it wasn't great either. Enjoyable but just average.
That's exactly my opinion too. It wasn't great, but it wasn't trash like a lot of internet people are saying. I give it a 5/10 - average. Many people are just parroting ragebait youtuber opinions without taking the time to watch the movie themselves.
Helm dying for no reason killed it for me... just open the door instead of giving the speech. Or have Hera rush to get soldier/archers and then fight them off... They could've made him actually sacrifice himself out in the snow as opposed to dying in front of his own fortress... fakk me
@@wolfsbane9985unfortunately I think you're right in that people are too easily swayed by those condemning this film because of their socio-political views, and thus deny themselves the chance to make up their own minds. And miss out on a fairly entertaining time at the cinema.
I just watched the movie, after collecting my thoughts, and looking at other people's thoughts on it here is my opinion on War of the RohirRim
I liked it, it is definitely not as good as Jackson Lord of the Rings. However I don't think it is anywhere near as bad as what most of the comment section says it is either. I personally will be recommending it to my friends and family.
Look all I'm saying is they did Helm himself infinity better than whoever that Nazgul pretender was supposed to be in Shadow of War.
Of course if you disagree with me that's completely fine, it's always healthy to form your own opinion.
The movie was pretty good all in all. Your rating seems way to generous though. Also seems strange to say adding isn’t changing something. If you add a variable to a math equation it’s fundamentally changed, or if you add ingredients to a recipe it’s clearly changed. Simply changing something isn’t inherently bad though, which is why I would somewhat agree the movie was decent. Just think saying it’s better than the Hobbit films is off the plot.
omg i didnt watch the video - does he really say "adding isnt changing"? Good LORD lol
I chalk up his initial review being so generous because he has an inherent interest to like Lord of the Rings adaptations unless they do absolutely god awful. Not to mention, he probably wants to like it. Especially if it's a near and dear IP to him, he probably genuinely wants to see the good in the film. Maybe after some time after he reflects and the honeymoon buzz wears off he may change his stance. I wouldn't expect a hard change but probably slightly.
Thank you for giving your honest thoughts. I liked the film over all. There were some issues I had with the film, but it didn't bother me too much.
14:49 I agree, seeing Helms actions, desperation from 3rd person works really well, especially because he's such a legendary character, larger than life. And experiencing him stalking outside the wall from a 2nd person also ties brilliantly in.
Damn, this channel went full black numenorian for this revew.
Idk I had fun with the movie why can’t people just have fun and it was beautifully animated I know most people I work with will just regurgitate the negative talking points and then when u say just have fun they get offended it’s just a shame
I might have to watch it then. The reviews I saw said it sucked and so did my friends. Came off as a massive waste of time. Maybe I’ll see it, but I’m probably far more critical than the lot of you that liked it, but if it’s good and the watcher/mumakil are the only weird parts then I think it can be a good movie
From the art to the story to the music, average across the board
Well said and I agree totally with you on your points! I went to go see this with a friend of mine and he enjoyed it, and I'm going with my brother to see it again tonight!
With all due respect, if you thought the lore of this film was accurate, I question your knowledge of the lore. There was a battle at the Fords of Isen between the Rohirrim and the Dunlendings which caused Helm's forces to retreat Súthburg. Wulf's forces ally with Easterling forces to ambush the Rohirrim force during that battle. Wulf then divides his forces to besiege Súthburg and attack Edoras. Haleth fell at Edoras defending it against Wulf's forces. Hama wasn't killed by Wulf, he was lost when he went out during the Long Winter to find supplies. Helm didn't die from one excursion. He made multiple excursions into the winter. Fréaláf didn't just kill Wulf, he actually led an attack to retake Edoras.
The movie literally contradicts what was written by Tolkien.
The hero of the War of Rohirrim is Fréaláf Hildeson, not some unnamed daughter.
Yeah but YOU know the lore, right?
He already mentioned this is a raw review. He is excited for the movie.
You regurgitating the story we have already read (because if we are watching these videos, we’ve almost all certainly read it as well) doesn’t make you a Tolkien scholar, it just makes you a gatekeeper.
We also know that Christopher Tolkien didn’t like PJs adaptations, so he wouldn’t like any adaptation.
That said, this feels like it belongs in PJs LOTR universe, warts and all.
Helm did many incursions in the movie...
@@MrPiestro If you're not going to follow the basic story, then why call it an adaptation? I didn't regurgitate the basic story, I just laid out the facts that contradict the movie.
I never made claim of being a Tolkien scholar. But, I can read his works and make a basic assessment.
And this film gives barely lip service to the what was actually written in the books.
@ Barely giving lip service is a wild inaccuracy.
The same could be said for PJs adaptations (which I love, yet know they deviate wildly in parts).
No Glorfindel, elves at Helms Deep, the list goes on.
Yet PJs adaptations do what they intended to do, stick with the spirit and heart of what Tolkien wrote, unlike Rings of Power.
Exactly, this is just some woke girlboss crap, I am disappointed by this movie
It honestly gave me hope we might see other side stories like Hurin's or more obscure lore being developed like the history of Dol Amroth or the Numenorian civil wars etc. Through these animated adaptations. Whoever says this is worse than ROP is blind, it's far more Tolkien coded than that dumpster fire and at least its watchable.
I agree Hera was underdeveloped compared to how developed the movie pretends she is, I wish Frealaf and her brothers got more development too although as you said they are already more fleshed out than they were in the books. I found the whole shield maidens part out of place, like the way it was used felt like the opposite extreme to the whole rohhirim amazons idea. Also Hera's caretaker was the most obnoxious character for me and the actual girlboss/mary sue (almost) character of the film, she also avoided certain death ridiculously too many times for an old woman, be it ex warrior or not. She really should have been cut back a bit or act as a death that inspires Hera, or the whole shield maidens idea used in a moderate way, like a host of tribeswomen living on the mountains of Hornburg coming to assit like the Elves did in the movie version of the battle, to give the legend a bigger point other than "oh look, Hera picked up a shield and the badass granny is badass". Also...did you notice how stupid the rohhirim were? XD like seriously, I counted over 5 losses that could have being averted if at least a few rohirrim remembered what their job is.
Anyway, its a nice step forward and gives hope for Gollum. I won't mind a future where we get ,maybe less high budget but still with a Tolkien soul, one animated and one live action middle earth film covering and developing more obscured parts of the lore throughout the years. And I can see the whole inspiration part you mentioned, I saw a few girls around me at the cinema going googly eyed and cheering with some of Hera's scenes, of course what we all wowed on was the Lee cameo, and I really appreciate they just edited archived recordings of his voice instead of using an AI bot to mimic him.
I think her saying she was married to death was a call back to when eowyn yells death as they charge into battle
I loved how they drew the scenic vistas, but the actual animation when people were talking just seemed off.
The animation was a bit clunky when they walked. I'm not sure if that was the computer coding or what. It didn't take anything away from the story but I know I'm an odd duck and other people may be bothered by it.
I left my expectations at home. I could have brought them with me. I loved it!!!
Also, the shield is because she’s a Shield maiden…
I'm about to re-research the ending credits to this movie, but I just went to go see it, now I want to see it again.
People complaining about Hera being a competent fighter (competent, not unstoppable by any means) are ignoring the fact that she's Helm fucking Hammerhand's daughter and raised along two brothers in a culture that values riding and strength. Her older brother single-handedly killed a whole group riding a Mumakill and the mumakill itself with a single axe. She defeated two different men in single combat, both of which she clearly struggled in and got some assistance in both. People do not need to be treating her like she's the most powerful or badass character in the film and try to use that as a reason to hate her and the film.
The "bride of death" concept is a reference to the film's anime-esque style. I thought it was a cool touch.
I’ve seen a early release of this movie, and I’m sorry this was a mess. Too long with questionable intentions. I understand that since Rings of Power, Tolkien fans are looking for anything….This was a big let down for me. I’m so confused how you stay this story is “right on track” but it’s not, with a lot of liberty.
Hera might not be a girl boss, but she is a bit of a Mary Sue and there certainly is feminism influencing the writing. “Men won’t listen to me, the right to choose, I don’t need no man” everybody telling her how awesome she is, and she had to make the lore breaking kill of Wulf. She already got her protagonist win when she disarmed him. Frealaf should have gotten to kill.
Daughter of the king gets praised by people because... Feminism?
Are you sure the word you're looking for isn't aristocracy?
I did really enjoy it, and I absolutely think it was worth seeing. Going to the issue of the "girl-boss" especially in comparison with Helm, we expect Helm to be amazing because he is an older and hardened warrior with *years* of experience. You mention a few times, wishing we could have seen more background for why she is the way she is, I would have also liked a couple scenes establishing *how*.
I also am a bit upset that you don't reference the change to the lore with Hama's death... which functionally was so useless in the structure of the story and undercut how absolutely devastating the Long Winter was for both sides of the war. It was frustrating to have a character whose death embodied the threat of starvation and the peril of winter changed to such an easily preventable and futile ending.
My immediate reaction to Hama getting murdered like this was 'oh no, just like Fili in 'The Hobbit' which I really hate, too.
Regarding Helm’s “arrogance”. Freca is a lord of Rohan claiming descent from Frèawine, with “much dunlendish blood”, who only came to council when it suits him. Helm has mistrusted him for a while. His first action at this council was to ask for Helms daughters had in marriage. Helm’s response is to call him fat. He then rages and reviles the KING! Did anyone really think he would escape punishment? He’s lucky he wasn’t branded a traitor right then and there, hauled out and executed.
So glad to hear someone else enjoyed it! :) really happy about that!
Lot of people are trying to paint Hera as a "Mary Sue." I don't think that's the case. There's a move she uses to disarm a stronger man: and it's a legit HEMA move! She's more skilled than a lot of mooks, but there are times when bigger, stronger men also get the better of her. There are some things where I think the writing could be better, but those are more anime otaku-isms, not girl-boss isms. I think a few male characters are basically simping for her under the surface. Over all, a pretty good film, which I enjoyed seeing in the theater with my wife. It could have stood to be a bit shorter, and some better writing so that Hera would be a bit less capable and a bit more clever, and it would have been perfect. I hope the studio makes more!
The time change is probably due to the changes in the timeline for the movies, since rather than the 17 years in the books, Gandalf is only gone for a few months in The Fellowship of the Ring
Im glad someone else thinks this was done well, i loved it personally
It’s become a 20-year long tradition for myself and my father to go to the movies, particularly for the Tolkien adaptations, and he absolutely loved this film. I also really enjoyed it in the same way I enjoy canonically dubious games like Shadow of Mordor. Hera is a non-canon character, but she could potentially fit into the unspoken part of the Appendices. After all, the story of the War of the Rohirrim is basically just a summary that only lasts about 4 pages?
My only real harsh criticism against the film is that the animation framerate is inconsistent (going from the standard 24fps to the typical 8-12fps framerate you would see in an anime episode) and that the pacing could drone on in certain moments. As far as the “woke” stuff is concerned, I would urge anyone to avoid any clickbait reviews about that. It is not imo. Hera never came across as the stereotypical “girlboss” tropey protagonist and Helm absolutely stole the show when it came down to it.*
Ultimately, I hope this is the beginning of more standalone animated films taking place in the legendarium. If we could get a darker and more polished anime adaptation of Tolkien stories such as The Children of Hurin or The Silmarillion as a whole, that would make me so happy!
*[Edit] I honestly have no issues with badass female characters in stories, I’m mainly talking about the disingenuous ways in which Hollywood implements those characters.
Thanks for not being an NPC and having your own opinions instead of parroting the opinions of youtubers. I will say I didn't think the movie was amazing, but not for reasons of wokeness or girl bossing. I still enjoyed it though. I give it a 5 or 6/10 - pretty average, but definitely not trash. It could be better, but i appreciate that it was actually very lore accurate, with the exception of giving Hera a name and giving her the Wulf kill.
The major concern of this film is that the makers of this movie Greatly changed Tolkien's Lore by having Hara, NOT Frealaf, kill Wulf. True lore lovers, in my opinion, should NOT be pleased with this film on this point alone.
The creator of the Men of the West Channel, I feel, is too captivated with this film because it is a Peter Jackson Lord of the Rings film, and to his point not thankfully the RoP. Yes, the Girl Boss aspect of this film, while not fully in your face like many other Modern films wish to ideologically portray these days, but because he's so taken with this film, he Greatly looked beyond many of those B
Girl Boss moments, such as she made all the right decisions that the Men "failed" to make, that she, and not the horses that she rode, is the best rider in Rohan, that she can climb mountains, get the Eagles to do as she wills, She, not Helm, killed the Snow Troll, and that Helm said that if he had only listened to her, none of these events would have occurred.
Finally, at the very beginning of the film where Miranda Otto said that "no where is it written that any of her deeds were ever written", they movie writers Never explained why this was done, particularly considering all of the Super Human feats that She carried out in this film. If anyone else did these acts of greatness, to include leading her people, not once, but twice to safety, Songs, schools, buildings, etc. would have been done in droves in her honor, just as they were done for Eowyn.
While the film makers did carry out aspects of Tolkien's Lore to at least technically remain true to his vision, the part that Hera played in this film is in no way true to Tolkien, in particular that she, NOT Frealaf killed Wulf.
These points alone do not justify anywhere close to a 9 out of 10 score.
In order to at least maintain Tolkien's Lore, regardless of all of the mentioned Girl Boss aspects this film had, a more fitting end to this character, who in Tolkien's book was not mentioned by name, and therefore to him plays no key role in the further development of Rohan's future, would have been for Hera to have died at the hands of Wulf, and for Frealaf to therefore kill Wulf, as was written by Tolkien.
This would have been carried out by Frealaf for two reasons, one out of revenge for the deaths of many of his people, including all of Rohan's Royal Family, Hera included, but also as was the case in the book for the Salvation of Rohan.
Since Hera played no role in Rohan's history, the thread I just mentioned would have been at least allowable for the fil. Makers to maintain Hera's Girl Bossness, while at the same time, and most importantly of all, staying True to Tolkien, without whom none of these film creators would have a job at all. Thank you.
@@MichaelHubbard-u9z Thankfully you're not the ultimate arbiter of the fandom, and people who enjoy Tolkien lore are still allowed to enjoy whatever they enjoy and should never be judged for not being a "true lore lover".
Just saw the film today and ill say this...I HATE "Woke" films and this was NOT one of them. Hera was actually surprisingly better than I thought she would be and I would not call her a "girl boss" lol. She is not OP and gets roughed up quite a lot. She also does not overstep her father or brothers. Helm is a major character of the film and arguably the best character. His story is told and it was great. It's okay to not like the film. Everyone has different tastes but I liked it. It has issues for sure and Men of the West touches on a lot of those that I agree with. I'm glad I saw the film and would see it again for sure.
It's too far from a good adaption. I can see they wanna put every element in LOTR into this new movie but ended up ruin the whole story (what the hell are the orcs doing there? They could have removed them without changing the story)
I absolutely agree with your review, love the movie, went in there with little trepidation but enjoyed it from beginning to the end. Going tomorrow to watch it again
I actually really loved this movie. I feel that the girl boss take is hyper exaggerated. The lore felt mostly right. I really enjoyed the movie.
I think the wild and free is a characteristic the writers gave hera to avoid the issue of who takes the throne. Lore wise her cousin gets the throne. In terms of who should get it Hera is clearly the rightful heir. So the two options the writers have is kill of Hera (not ideal since she is the protagonist and Helm's story arc) or have her give up the throne.
It would have been better for the writers show why she was so wild and free as you said but I think that characteristic was given out of necessity rather that desire.
Low key sad how divided people get over an anime version of like a page and a half of lore. I saw it in theaters without super high expectations, but was SURPRISED by how accurate it was.
This conversation isn’t mad divided or anything, but people get so knocked out of shape by the smallest things.
Watched it last Saturday. My husband and I enjoyed it a lot. I really loved how the story of Helm Hammerhand told. I don't know why but hearing the LOTR theme was nostalgic. The posthumous voicing of Saruman, that touched me for some reasons. Totally an enjoying movie.
16:57 If she were actually FOR Rohan then she would have been raised to know that her duty is to marry for the betterment of the realm. The reason she does not say she is the bride of Rohan is because she rejected her duty.
She didn't, though. Not actually. It was pretty clear Helm had not discussed the Gondorian offer with her at all yet, so she couldn't have rejected it. It was Helm who rejected Fréca's offer, and rightly so- his desire to usurp the throne was obvious. Héra tells Wulf that she doesn't want to marry anyone because she's reassuring him that her objection isn't to him personally and isn't because of his Dunlanding blood. Their dads are already outside throwing down at that point, and no one else was there. That was a personal conversation, not an official, political one. If Helm hadn't one-punch killed Fréca and banished Wulf, perhaps a more official conversation would have been had. But Helm's actions made the war, not Héra's private conversation with an old friend.
She is even willing to accept Wulf's offer at Isengard in order to save Rohan. It is Wulf who rejects that option because of his personal feelings. And once he's made it clear her wedding him would not prevent the attack, there is no point to her doing so. A bride as an assurance of peace doesn't work when the husband has no intention of honoring that bargain.
Frealaf is done dirty. He was never banished. He killed Wulf. He was savior of Rohan. He was most worthy to establish the new line of Kings. Most of his feats were given to Hera, who could do no wrong in this movie. She has no arc. She starts as a free willed woman who don’t need no man and ends as a free willed woman who don’t need no man. Her and Olwyn are the epitome of idealized post modern feminist. Phoebe Gittens and Phillepa Boyens self inserts into a Tolkien adaptation IMO. At least the rumor of Amazonian tribe of women did not occur.
Yeah because of this, I won't be spending my money watching this movie. Sorry, if you want a strong female character, write your own story and stop hijacking someone else's story arc to do so.
Personally, I had no issue with the "I don't want to marry" bit. Considering that the line of Helm does end, it is clear that even in the Tolkien timeline that she remained unmarried (assuming she even survived the events)
I respectfully disagree. Freáláf is a wise and loyal character in the film, worthy of being king. He even has quite a bit of involvement in the first part of the film, advising his uncle and helping to rescue Héra from Isengard. He is then temporarily removed from the plot and, like the lore, remains isolated in Dunharrow during the Long Winter (so it was difficult to make him the main protagonist). And despite not being the one to kill Wulf, they win the final battle thanks to him. You can argue and disagree with the details and dramatic licenses that the film takes but in general it is quite faithful to what was written, it changes almost nothing
@@ivacho9428 He killed Wulf, that is a HUGE change. Giving that action to Hera is not a small detail.
@@lnwolf7563yes, perhaps he should had be the one who killed Wulf, but the final battle is still won thanks to him. All the events remain almost in the same way as in the book
YES! Loved the film! Went twice! Its even better on the rewatch!
Here's a write-up of some of my thoughts, I left this in response to another commenter on your Facebook page. It sums up my general feelings on the film:
[ I thought it was okay. Not bad, pretty good even.
It didn't make me mad like Rings of Power and The Hobbit trilogy did. They didn't try to shoehorn a bunch of unnecessary BS into it that shat on existing lore or anything like that, which was good. I think they tread carefully lorewise and did a pretty good job adding detail to that story without fundamentally changing it.
I thought it was a bit cheesy at times. I didn't always love the dialogue. For example, Helm Hammerfist said "that's none of your business!" or something like that, some kinda current figures of speech in there that are very non-Tolkien, non fantasy / old English in there. And recycling some famous quotes or scenes from the LOTR series in the film, felt kind of cheap like "hey remember this line/scene you loved from the trilogy?" instead of having it's own really memorable lines or speeches or something. If that makes sense.
Art style was interesting. Different of course. I'm not an anime fan, but that's not because of the art style specifically. Looked pretty good. Had some fun fight scenes, and I think the anime art style gave it some license to have those fight scenes be unrealistic and "cartoonish" , like some of Legolas's fight scenes in the LOTR trilogy. If you know what I mean. Some fun, cartoonish fight scenes like you'd see in an anime, and it doesn't have to be realistic because it's animated anyways.
Overall though I thought it did a pretty good job of telling it's own story, using the little detailed existing lore we have (Helm Hammerfist killed someone with one punch and got that name, and Helms Deep was named after him after a last stand there, etc), without treading on other parts of the legendarium in an poorly done / disrespectful way like other LOTR spinoffs have. It's worth a watch. Though I don't think it's some amazing classic that I'll be rewatching regularly or anything. Maybe a 6.5 or 7 out of 10 or something?
That's just my opinion anyways. Interested to hear what Yoysten thought!]. That was my comment.
Now let the records show I am a bigger Tolkien nerd than most casual fans, and have read the main LOTR trilogy, the Hobbit and the Silmarillion multiple times each, as well as Children of Hurin, Fall of Gondolin, and the Unfinished Tales. HOWEVER, I am NOT a loremaster with an encyclopedic knowledge of every sidestory / supplemental lore, so someone like you Yoysten and probably some of the other commenters might have noticed more lore discrepancies than I did. But overall I was happy with how they handled it from a lore PoV, there were just other parts of it that make me say the movie was pretty good, but not great.
Going to see this tomorrow~ i am excited for it, and i am glad that everything I've said about Hera sounds accurate, i like that she's a protagonist.. I am glad that it's an anime honestly, i love anime (fate/stay night and the like) i prefer it a lot of the time.. because with animation the people making things pour their creativity into everything in a way that i rarely see in live action..
I'm looking forward to the future again as far as Tolkien content, and that hasn't been the case for a very long time
Thank you for giving a constructive review
I don't think I liked it as much as you did, there were quirks like turning shieldmaidens into some kind of a faction rather than a cultural practice that Rohirrim embrace in general in moments of crisis (or some more priviledged Rohirrim woman can do), which you mentioned, that made my eyebrow rise, but I found the technical aspects of the animation the most underdeveloped. I wonder if at some point this might have been considered for streaming release instead of a cinematic one and hence why WB didn't really put as much resources as was needed into it. However I did enjoy it overall, probably more than Hobbit movies and definitely more than that RoP travesty of a pseudoadaptation. Not sure if it's a movie I will be particularly into rewatching, but I might go back to some scenes from time to time and I would like to take a closer look into some background details they came up with such as heraldry of different regions and subfactions.
I was thinking "Bride of Rohan" too, but that might be a little much like Elizabeth I.
I loved it ;-)
I also ADORED this movie!!!
Why not make your own IP if you want to tell this fanfic story? Of course, I know why. But still, I am not seeing this
Ok? So?
@@mckenan3578 It's an internet comment mckenan. Don't take it as an attack on your identity and self-esteem
@@J31 didn’t
@@mckenan3578 ok...
Pretty sure the whole helm potrayal is very close to rhe book
I really enjoyed the movie. I think we could nitpick for hours but let’s be realistic, we aren’t going to get a word to screen movie. Peter Jackson made major changes and yet we love the movies. This movie felt like LORT not just an anime that says it’s LORT. I understand some of the frustration, I love Tolkien more than any other author, and LOTR is my favorite series. However; if we have the most unrealistic expectations for every project we can miss good things. I think this movie is good, as a Tolkien purest, I enjoyed it. Is it perfect? Of course not. However, it is good.
I’m glad other people enjoyed this film as well. It wasn’t perfect but it doesn’t deserve the hate. I personally really enjoyed it and loved that it didn’t lean into everyone’s nostalgia for the trilogy. It was earnest and with the nostalgic reboots/sequels/remakes we get these days, that’s a breath of fresh air.
Watched this at the cinema with my two young nephews (8 and 12 years old) and they loved the entire movie, which made me love it! :D
Why did this show underperform so badly? I've never seen it yet. Amazon just ruined me with their vomit they called Wheel of Time and Rings Of Power. Any suggestions before I watch this show or just jump in?
It got little advertising, the anime aesthetic is still pretty niche, Rings of Power has soured people to Middle-Earth adaptations after the Hobbit movies already made people have mixed feelings, and the focus on Hera as the movie's Mary Sue protagonist was a big turnoff for a lot of people on top of the fact that this movie is a blatant rights' retainer so that WB can make the prequel stories that they actually wanted to make.
It never stood a chance with those odds. I'm gonna check it out for myself when it hits streaming but it's no wonder the general audience either wasn't aware of it or mostly passed if they were.
This makes me want an Eldacar/Kinstrife adaptation all the more. Although maybe without Mumakil, Watchers, Eagles, and whatnot lol. Something like a tale from the Silmarillion would definitely fit the artform more.
i watched it today with my brother and a friend. It was quite enjoyable, even bought the limited edition popcorn bucket.
Youston dude, as a fellow gym rat, could we get a Helm workout vid from you? That would be awesome!!!!
I think the Shield maiden were honnord by what they did.. it was mentioned in the movie.. they where the only left to fight White the man where killed.. so not a faction but a courage acceptation what they did..
is this better than rings of power, story wise?
Definitively Yes! It takes some liberties with Tolkiens legendarium but it doesn't butcher it completely. You can watch it and enjoy it. It may not be a masterpiece but you can have an entertaining evening at the cinema with it.
This is repeating old stories we have already read for 100 times in different medias, power of ring is a failure in trying to create new stpry, depends on which one you think is worse.
Yes, I dislike ROP but generally enjoyed this.
It was quite good. The only thing I would change is having Frealaf kill Wulf instead of Hera to show he was still loyal to Rohan, but otherwise, it was well done.
There were flaws, but I really enjoyed it, and would happily go back and see it again. Don't understand the huge hate its getting
They had at least 4 mumakil.
Also, Hera killing wulf in the context of frealaf riding in to route wulf’s army still could be justifiably stated as frealaf killing wulf by extension. 🤷🏼♂️
So, your informed intro is all I needed to go watch it. Will watch the rest of your video afterwards ;-)
Saw it today and really enjoyed it! I'm not necessarily a huge anime fan, but I thought it was the perfect vehicle for this story. They captured the lore, while the additions were plausible and enjoyable. Yes, I vote for more!
Mmm good review mostly on the story and lore. But let’s be clear. The production quality is NOT good. The anime quality is terrible, cheap. Also as you said, we lack some of the moments that make LOTR, when they slow down and spend time to reflect on characters, ideas. This feels too action packed. Also it lacks scale, there s very few characters on screen. Lack of budget?
I’m glad to not be the only one that felt like the animation quality was SO STIFF. In my opinion the story was actually pretty decent! I quite liked how focused it was on one kingdom, as a new viewer of all the lord of the rings movies (and soon to be books!) it’s quite hard to keep track of all the places on the map.
This movie helped me to see more of how connected everything really is 😅 Like Saruman at the end??? I don’t even realize how old he really is omg
Welp... The good news is that hopefully this will bring more people to the books (source material). I just wish the Tolkien Estate would've respected the late Christopher Tolkien and J.R.R. Tolkien's wishes; they wished no characters would be perverted from their book counterparts, and the themes would remain true to the source material. Yet, this film, and Rings Of Power do not respect Tolkien's wishes (that came from his own mouth and letters).
Exactly, I can’t imagine Tolkien would have no criticisms of the original trilogy but this feels like a big step further away with the dialogue and very significant character deviations/additions
I would give it a 6/10. Was it bad? No. Great? No (but easily could have been). I think a simple fix would make it great. Save Helm’s death for the end. While Wulf, Hera, and Frealaf are fighting, at the same time Helm is defending the Hornburg as shown. Once *Frealaf* makes the killing blow (he needs a win and Hera already won a duel disarming Wulf) they go to the gate to find Helm frozen in place. This would allow the audience to soak in Helm’s death more and authenticating Frealaf as king rather than Hera just giving up the title cuz she doesn’t want it and be lore accurate.
We’re all free to have different opinions but personally, I was surprised how much I enjoyed this film. However, I think there were many changes I would have made to the story.
1. Instead of having Héra refuse Wulf’s hand in marriage at the Witan, have her accept it to try and avoid conflict between Helm and Freca and have it be Helm who acts impulsively by turning Freca down. That way the “I should have listened to you” moment from Helm at the end would’ve made more sense and Héra saying “everything you’ve done is for your people” would’ve been more impactful as it would’ve shown Héra’s growth, a moment of her finally understanding her father’s actions.
2. Héra should’ve died. It would’ve been a more poetic way to end her character to have her sacrificing herself in the place where her father died. Let Wulf get all that he wants in the end only to find he is still unhappy. He can then return to the ruins of Edoras to declare himself kings and the moment of realization that he gained nothing would set in on him. There, Frealaf would show up killing him and taking the throne as he is supposed to in the book.
I do not think that Héra should’ve died. But I think it would be better if she travelled to Dunharrow herself (by the help of the eagles), convinced Frealaf to attack Edoras while most of Wulf's army are still occupied at Hornburg (Frealaf did not know that, he might think that Hornburg had fallen and any future resistance is futile) and joined the attack ("to revenge my brothers and my father"). Then she could have her duel with Wulf in Meduseld and either lose, fall wounded and be revenged by Frealaf, or (even better) Wulf, while loosing. would cheat (almost as he did in the movie) and order his men to attack, so Frealaf could help Hera and kill Wulf in general melee.
That would honestly be great. I also feel as though the wedding dress should have been from Wulf. Would have made more sense and would have saved time by getting rid of a pretty pointless character in the old woman.
@@АнтонОрлов-я1ъyou should have directed this movie. I like your ideas better than what I saw.
Just saw it in 4DX…. beyond incredible. Seriously, go see it!
Definitely should have been the Bride of Rohan over Death. Her whole ploy was to give her people time to escape, LIFE.
Also, the wedding dress wasn't as visually striking as it could have been when she's already been wearing white the whole movie. Just my take.
Dont they call them Southrons, not easterlings?
while youre correct they call them southrons, that was specifically a southron who was dead, the easterlings wore a different uniform more akin to an asian plated warrior
@liamwilson7549 ah that makes sense. But, Southrons are from Harad and that's where the Oliphant's are from 😅
@@nickellis6530 indeed, we can only speculate which of the factions were present in the war at the time. Tolkien wrote that Rohan is attacked from the west (Dunlendings), South (Corsairs) and East (Haradrim and/or Easterlings)
Very much a meh movie, not good not bad just meh felt like a rinse and repeat of something Netflix would produce
It was a great experience to watch this film. I loved it. There were some moments I thought were different than I’d have done them, some were even a little silly, but what of that can’t be said about the Peter Jackson trilogy?
This was so much fun. Such a good movie.
I do agree that overall it’s solid. I’d probably give it a 7/10. After just having my first view tonight, I don’t like the member berries much. Rings of power has kind of ruined them. The music coming back was a beautiful touch. I would’ve been fine with a line here or there but especially early on I feel like there was several that was a bit much. I felt also at first that if you changed the title and it almost could’ve been any anime ever. I wasn’t over fond of freca. But I do think the movie was quite solid and there’s a LOT of overreaction to this movie. I’m not an anime watcher AT ALL. And I’d still rate it quite highly. I wish they would have done a few less member berries and done a bit more visual showing of connections to the trilogy as opposed to having people repeat or almost act out mannerisms from the trilogy. And then I agree. Wish they would’ve shown and not told us when Hera was getting so good at riding or fighting or anything like that.
You should review Ralph Bakshi’s Lord of the Rings?