engineering student here, and the most logical explanation to me as to why the cardboard warped the opposite way of what was expected is due to the cardboard sucking in the moisture from the artex, and it want to expand and deform. the thin plastic coating on the bottom surface of the cardboard is probably somewhat resistant to deformation, and there it would have to strecth, but since it cant stretch/deform as easily as the cardboard and physical forces always takes the path of least resistance it therefore curved downwards so that the plastic coating didnt undergo a change in tension.
The main thing I remember about Artex when my parents had it on the walls when i was a kid was that the ridges (you called them stippling effect, i think) can hold a sharp edge just something to be aware of.
Hi Mel, Here are a couple of things for you to check: 1 - Some of the larger gravel stuck and some didn't. Where pieces fell off it looks as though the hollow was filled with sand, so the stone was sitting on a bed of sand, and not in direct contact with the Artex. Try sprinkling the larger pieces on first, then covering with sand after. 2 - Try the Artex on the printed side of the cereal pack. I haven't tried this, but I know that using PVA on the printed side causes much less warping than it does on the reverse, so it could be worth a try.
AWESOME review I typically use wall spackle just to cover air holes and small gaps but never as a complete covering so this was HIGHLY educational to an old dog like me GREAT JOB Buddy:)!!!!!
Hi Mel along with the explanation from the engineering student below you may want to repeat the cardboard test by artexing a piece and then rotating the sheet 90 degrees and then artex a second. The fibres in paper and the card like cardboard you are holding are usually all traveling in the same direction due to the method of manufacture. It may well be that there will be more or less warping if the if the short/long sides are with or against the length of the fibres.
Lol, I had a feeling someone would have answered this already and they have! This also explains why when you tear paper in one direction you will get relatively straight strips but the other direction will give you crooked bites (for lack of a better word).
Hi fella. The cardboard is made with ribs (or grain) that runs lengthways on the example that you have there. Therefore the only way it can warp is sideways :) With the layered grit the good thing is that if you want to put larger stones in it, you could always pick them off once the artex is dry and glue them back into place in their own personal imprint, which will look really natural placings :)
Either that or it is the fiber alignment in the cardboard. Wood and cardboard tend to react with warping when getting in contact with moisture. Maybe sealing the cardboard would help with the warping.
I think the cardboard and the foam board warp in different ways just because of the way the paper fibres are aligned, and the slight bracing the foam is offering in the first sample
Reminds me when I was experimenting with casting stuff from Herst molds. I was trying to see what mixture of plaster of Paris and cement would be ideal to give it good strength but keep it light weight. I wish I could remember where I put my results haha
You were going to test hot glue and super glue on it... ;-) Also, I'd be interested to see what it would look like if you used it to coat both sides of a corner wall section, treating it like a stucco coat. I expect the natural coating it has will look really good. Also, I suspect that coating a wall section and then sprinkling it with fine grit before it cures will result in an adobe looking building. I'd be keen to see if that works like that as well. All the best.
Oh, I wasn't bothered either. He asked for comments and it was something he said he wanted to do, so I was just reminding him. I doubt either adhesive would act oddly, to be honest.
Some interesting final coatings (some of which are flexible) are discussed in the RUclips vid: The Ultimate Guide to Sealing Foam Props and Costumes - Prop: Shop Its about applying finishes to cosplay armour - some of the materials I hadn't heard of. Cheers Mike
I would cut the cardboard so you have the same cardboard in two long pieces cut at right angles. After laying on the artex and drying it, you might find it arcing in two different directions (proving even cardboard has a grain though it can't be seen) or not arcing in two different directions (proving it is because of some other reason).
The cardboard warps the way it does because you applied it on the raw edge, it soaks in and expands the raw cardboard, but the laminate/shiney side cant expand, so it bends. I'm not sure why the foamboard does the opposite
North American viewer here, Artex isn't available in Canada, but based on how it's application is described, it seems to be similar/the same as "stucco" used to texture ceilings and walls, can anyone confirm if this is the same product?
I do very much like the shows where you do real science. Good stuff. As to the warping, you probably want a materials engineer rather than a physicist. (I trained as a physicist in college and I can tell you that my training offers no insights. 8-) ) That said, I suspect the Artex exhibits some shrinkage when it dries. On the foam core, which has limited rigidity but which also doesn't allow any significant penetration, the result is a warp toward the side with the Artex (much like a bow string bends a bow). On the cardboard, the Artex is penetrating significantly, which might be causing some swelling of the card board and when the Artex dries, the tension is running more through the center of the cardboard substrate (because of the penetration), but I don't know that you would get a consistent direction of warp. Interesting results. Technical note: When something white fills most of your camera's frame (as in parts of this video), your exposure is going too low. This is typical of automatic exposure algorithms in cameras. If you can set a manual exposure, you should see somewhat better results with very light or very dark parts of the video.
The "curved warpage" (cardboard) is known as "crowning." Your first warpage (foam-board) is known as "bowing." In wood, whether the piece bows or crowns is dependent upon the grain of the wood and how the grain in running in relation to the way the wood is cut. But I'm not familiar enough with cardboard and/or foam-board to explain the difference. As for the texture . . . that's why we sand it after application, not to mention painting. LOL
I'm using PVA to expand plaster drying time so it makes sense if it works that way here, too. In the end, it is some kind of plaster, isn't it? I understand though it is not the type you fill in holes in your wall with, but bring on textures, right? Then it would have to be rather adhesive, of course! Does it show any exothermic reaction when curing? I really like the smooth dilluted version that could make a nice desert in scale. I'll have to find me an Artex equivalent in Germany. Frankly, I don't know if we have that same brand.
Cheers mate, maybe that's because of the long curing time. Can only be an advantage though, as heat can become a problem with rather delicate materials.
on the part with the gravel being dropped on top... it seemed you were dropping the larger rocks on top of the sand which could cause a barrier between the rocks and the artex... what if you were to place the rocks first and then drop the sand... would that help with adhesion for the larger stones?
Great vids mate, love your vids.. could the warpage in the cardboard be because of the way the inside is layered? You know the wiggly lines.. if you had cut the cardboard in the other direction, could it have warped the same as the poly? Or is it single-layered card? And this also looks alot like what we call in Australia "top coat" (topper) not sure what its called elsewhere.. but plasterers (wall liners and wall and ceiling hangers) use as the last coat after the 2 base coats.. if not.. could we possibly see a vid on this? Would be interesting to see due to the way it dries and how easy it is to sand.. (top coat)
Got a brand name for that stuff, or a product link bud? You need to double layer the cardboard with the layers perpendicular to each other to stop directional warping
wished I had a fiver for every square metre of artex I put on since 1974, bloody messy stuff when your putting it on ceilings. in humid conditions or areas with poor airflow it used to take a long time to harden up. I don't know what the ready mixed stuff is made up from but recommend using dust masks if you want to sand it down.
OK, thanx. I appreciate your labs. That right there is worth the little bit of Patrion $ I send every month.A guy could go broke trying to experiment with materials like this. Thanx.
Ah that's great because it does look like amazing stuff. As long as people buy it new and not dig a tub up from their garden shed they had lying around.
I quit terrain building 15 years ago and still I watch your videos. Kinda addictive....
Once a terrainiac, always a terrainiac!
ty sir for doing all this legwork so us noobs don't have to waste our time energy and money on doing it.
it's what I'm here for, helping the community
And a credit to the community you are. Thank you again.
engineering student here, and the most logical explanation to me as to why the cardboard warped the opposite way of what was expected is due to the cardboard sucking in the moisture from the artex, and it want to expand and deform. the thin plastic coating on the bottom surface of the cardboard is probably somewhat resistant to deformation, and there it would have to strecth, but since it cant stretch/deform as easily as the cardboard and physical forces always takes the path of least resistance it therefore curved downwards so that the plastic coating didnt undergo a change in tension.
KrMaHo fuck yeah my assumptions were correct, ty for the info
funny thins is I basically had about this (a beams deformation under temperature, same shit really) earlier today :P
Awesome, cheers bud!
The main thing I remember about Artex when my parents had it on the walls when i was a kid was that the ridges (you called them stippling effect, i think) can hold a sharp edge just something to be aware of.
Doesn't take you long man that's why I love ur channel...
Great and very thorough. Keep these test style videos coming!
Hi Mel,
Here are a couple of things for you to check:
1 - Some of the larger gravel stuck and some didn't. Where pieces fell off it looks as though the hollow was filled with sand, so the stone was sitting on a bed of sand, and not in direct contact with the Artex. Try sprinkling the larger pieces on first, then covering with sand after.
2 - Try the Artex on the printed side of the cereal pack. I haven't tried this, but I know that using PVA on the printed side causes much less warping than it does on the reverse, so it could be worth a try.
Noted bud!
It's Mel the science guy! Thanks Mel.
:-D
AWESOME review I typically use wall spackle just to cover air holes and small gaps but never as a complete covering so this was HIGHLY educational to an old dog like me GREAT JOB Buddy:)!!!!!
Get stippling buddy! :-D
Great work. Thanks for the tests.
The new camera set up's working well, mate.
Cheers bud, getting better with it
Hi Mel along with the explanation from the engineering student below you may want to repeat the cardboard test by artexing a piece and then rotating the sheet 90 degrees and then artex a second. The fibres in paper and the card like cardboard you are holding are usually all traveling in the same direction due to the method of manufacture. It may well be that there will be more or less warping if the if the short/long sides are with or against the length of the fibres.
On it!
Exactly my suggestion. It probably has to do with the fibers in the cardboard that it warp in that direction.
Lol, I had a feeling someone would have answered this already and they have! This also explains why when you tear paper in one direction you will get relatively straight strips but the other direction will give you crooked bites (for lack of a better word).
Very interesting results, thanks for sharing
Hi fella. The cardboard is made with ribs (or grain) that runs lengthways on the example that you have there. Therefore the only way it can warp is sideways :)
With the layered grit the good thing is that if you want to put larger stones in it, you could always pick them off once the artex is dry and glue them back into place in their own personal imprint, which will look really natural placings :)
Either that or it is the fiber alignment in the cardboard. Wood and cardboard tend to react with warping when getting in contact with moisture. Maybe sealing the cardboard would help with the warping.
I'm thinking of the phrase 'Longitudinal Micro Corrugation' :) LOL
Thanks on both counts mate
I think the cardboard and the foam board warp in different ways just because of the way the paper fibres are aligned, and the slight bracing the foam is offering in the first sample
Reminds me when I was experimenting with casting stuff from Herst molds. I was trying to see what mixture of plaster of Paris and cement would be ideal to give it good strength but keep it light weight. I wish I could remember where I put my results haha
You were going to test hot glue and super glue on it... ;-) Also, I'd be interested to see what it would look like if you used it to coat both sides of a corner wall section, treating it like a stucco coat. I expect the natural coating it has will look really good. Also, I suspect that coating a wall section and then sprinkling it with fine grit before it cures will result in an adobe looking building. I'd be keen to see if that works like that as well. All the best.
Oh, I wasn't bothered either. He asked for comments and it was something he said he wanted to do, so I was just reminding him. I doubt either adhesive would act oddly, to be honest.
tbh honest, looking at the cured results, I guessed it would be fine mate, should have done it and filmed it
No worries, I only mentioned it in case you wanted to be reminded. The other stuff I mentioned is of more interest to me than testing the glue.
@ 3:57
Yes Mel i want to see you do it :P ( lol just teasing you mate).
I saw the way the pva/Artex combo moved, and thought of the craters on the D day board, maybe a preemptive solution to that in the future?
Lafe Daugherty maybe foot prints or tank tracks. I like the way your mind works.
I like your thinking!
Yeah, i wanna see you do it! :p
Some interesting final coatings (some of which are flexible) are discussed in the RUclips vid:
The Ultimate Guide to Sealing Foam Props and Costumes - Prop: Shop
Its about applying finishes to cosplay armour - some of the materials I hadn't heard of.
Cheers
Mike
Cheers for the heads up bud
I think the card is warping due to moisture, not shrinkage
I would cut the cardboard so you have the same cardboard in two long pieces cut at right angles. After laying on the artex and drying it, you might find it arcing in two different directions (proving even cardboard has a grain though it can't be seen) or not arcing in two different directions (proving it is because of some other reason).
Noted
The cardboard warps the way it does because you applied it on the raw edge, it soaks in and expands the raw cardboard, but the laminate/shiney side cant expand, so it bends. I'm not sure why the foamboard does the opposite
Cheers bud
North American viewer here, Artex isn't available in Canada, but based on how it's application is described, it seems to be similar/the same as "stucco" used to texture ceilings and walls, can anyone confirm if this is the same product?
Home Hardware has something called Interior White Polystipple Ceiling and wall texture by Lepage which sounds like its the same stuff.
Yep - ceiling stucco
Thanks!
I do very much like the shows where you do real science. Good stuff.
As to the warping, you probably want a materials engineer rather than a physicist. (I trained as a physicist in college and I can tell you that my training offers no insights. 8-) )
That said, I suspect the Artex exhibits some shrinkage when it dries. On the foam core, which has limited rigidity but which also doesn't allow any significant penetration, the result is a warp toward the side with the Artex (much like a bow string bends a bow). On the cardboard, the Artex is penetrating significantly, which might be causing some swelling of the card board and when the Artex dries, the tension is running more through the center of the cardboard substrate (because of the penetration), but I don't know that you would get a consistent direction of warp. Interesting results.
Technical note: When something white fills most of your camera's frame (as in parts of this video), your exposure is going too low. This is typical of automatic exposure algorithms in cameras. If you can set a manual exposure, you should see somewhat better results with very light or very dark parts of the video.
Thanks for the heads up matey
Interesting to see if you get any long term shrinkage / negatives with this material in the next 6 months :)
On the testin shelf, if they do, I'll spot it bud ;-)
If shrinkage is not an issue then I will be giving artex a go :)
The "curved warpage" (cardboard) is known as "crowning." Your first warpage (foam-board) is known as "bowing." In wood, whether the piece bows or crowns is dependent upon the grain of the wood and how the grain in running in relation to the way the wood is cut.
But I'm not familiar enough with cardboard and/or foam-board to explain the difference.
As for the texture . . . that's why we sand it after application, not to mention painting. LOL
Handy to know, thank you!
Loving the videos. I'm planning on getting into this and your lessons are very helpful. Keep them coming!
Excelent video!!!
I guess Artex is only available in the UK?
I'm using PVA to expand plaster drying time so it makes sense if it works that way here, too. In the end, it is some kind of plaster, isn't it? I understand though it is not the type you fill in holes in your wall with, but bring on textures, right? Then it would have to be rather adhesive, of course! Does it show any exothermic reaction when curing? I really like the smooth dilluted version that could make a nice desert in scale. I'll have to find me an Artex equivalent in Germany. Frankly, I don't know if we have that same brand.
Didn't nitice any heat mate
Cheers mate, maybe that's because of the long curing time. Can only be
an advantage though, as heat can become a problem with rather delicate
materials.
I WANNA SEE YOU DO IT BOSE!
on the part with the gravel being dropped on top... it seemed you were dropping the larger rocks on top of the sand which could cause a barrier between the rocks and the artex... what if you were to place the rocks first and then drop the sand... would that help with adhesion for the larger stones?
Noted mate
Hey Mel, I was just wondering what the differences are between doing an Artex and Plaster of Paris bases are?
Massive, pop is really soft in comparison
Thanks, now I just need to find something like this down here in Aus!
Great vids mate, love your vids.. could the warpage in the cardboard be because of the way the inside is layered? You know the wiggly lines.. if you had cut the cardboard in the other direction, could it have warped the same as the poly? Or is it single-layered card? And this also looks alot like what we call in Australia "top coat" (topper) not sure what its called elsewhere.. but plasterers (wall liners and wall and ceiling hangers) use as the last coat after the 2 base coats.. if not.. could we possibly see a vid on this? Would be interesting to see due to the way it dries and how easy it is to sand.. (top coat)
Got a brand name for that stuff, or a product link bud?
You need to double layer the cardboard with the layers perpendicular to each other to stop directional warping
@@TheTerrainTutor www.gyprock.com.au/jointing-compounds
@@TheTerrainTutor if you scroll down the page, the blue jointmaster bucket is what i'm talking about.
Looks good but could be sure without having a play with it mate
wished I had a fiver for every square metre of artex I put on since 1974, bloody messy stuff when your putting it on ceilings.
in humid conditions or areas with poor airflow it used to take a long time to harden up. I don't know what the ready mixed stuff is made up from but recommend using dust masks if you want to sand it down.
how well does it take impressions of say tank tracks if you layer some cling film over it?
Pretty well once it's semi cured
My impression is that it seems to be a combination of spackle and latex. Would you say thats fair?
No, more like tough spackle mate
OK, thanx. I appreciate your labs. That right there is worth the little bit of Patrion $ I send every month.A guy could go broke trying to experiment with materials like this. Thanx.
sounds good to me
i use paper mache for some areas of my train lay out just wondering if i can use artex on it
why not?
nice
how does the Diall filler v artex look so far ,and does Diall filler have any negatives ?
softer than artex, less sticky on application
And if you had to chose between the two ,knowing that you haven't had a lot of time with the artex ?
Didn't Artex contain asbestos in their surface coatings?
I think when it was the in material but it doesn't now
Ah that's great because it does look like amazing stuff. As long as people buy it new and not dig a tub up from their garden shed they had lying around.
that feel when Artex drowns in the swamp of sorrow :(
That was Artax! but yeah, right in the feels, even now :-(
Do you think i could use this to make craters from artillery
yeah, I reckon so
Artex... Goes on like really thick paint, dries like plaster.
I wonder if there is a north american brand that's similar.
ceiling stucco
It’s sold under the “Homax” label as Roll-On Texture; there’s a Smooth, Sanded, and Popcorn version. Found some at Lowe’s