1. Dangerous Books for Girls is $6 on Amazon kindle ($10 if you prefer paperback). It was recommended to me by a friend and I can't speak highly enough of it. If anyone has ever tried to shame you for enjoying media that falls under the umbrella of "chick lit", this book will equip you to shut them down non-violently. Sadly, a thick, heavy, hardcover version that would allow you to shut them down _violently_ is not currently an option I could find anywhere (I checked). Link: www.amazon.com/Dangerous-Books-Girls-Reputation-Explained-ebook/dp/B00VGGW4RO/ 2. I am aware that the Doom at Your Service clip (22:00-22:20), out of context, appears to be an odd choice to accompany the words I am saying over it (about female narrative agency being a cornerstone of romance fiction). DAYS fans will get the reference, the rest of you can suffer. I enjoy chaos. 3. Re: 7:40 - I do want to acknowledge that Katara does have a couple of moments where she cries in front of "the gang", e.g. when Aang burns her in the Deserter, or when Hama forces her to bloodbend for the first time. I didn't want to change my script too much to address the exceptions mainly because I didn't want to break the flow, (I think I changed my wording from "always" to "almost always" when Araeph, in her beta-reading suggestions, pointed out the Hama example) but I do think it's probably best to clarify further what I mean, so I'll do that here: I was mainly referring to what I see as a pattern of Katara bottling up or nursing her wounds alone (particularly any pain/suffering over her loss of Kya), that puts her in contrast with the way the other members of the gang usually receive some form of comfort or support or reassurance when _they_ are suffering. (And it's usually Katara providing said comfort). I did sacrifice nuance and accuracy for brevity and flow, but ultimately it's not true to say Katara *only* cries when she's alone - those exceptions prove otherwise. But, aside from Zuko in Bitter Work (and he wasn't part of "the gang" at that point), Katara *is* the only member of the gang who *does* cry alone, and who *is* shown to (have to) soothe herself when she's hurt. Given her backstory, that from a young age she had to be her family's rock to fill the void of Kya, from a Watsonian perspective I think it's reasonable to conclude that Katara likely hides her pain _because_ she knows how much the gang depends on her (and mainly/only her) for emotional support, and she probably feels a certain sense of obligation or responsibility to continue being their rock and not crumble - because if she doesn't hold them all together, then who will? (Hope that clarifies things).
My older sister spent her whole life doing everything for everyone. She met and befriended a woman in college with that same selfless nature, this woman would later adopt my sister. She would later die alone with no one but my sister by her side. This selfless woman who like Katara gave everything, every part of herself to everyone around her was left to fend for herself in the end. My sister has since reached a breaking point. She will still help, grudgingly. All the pain she had kept hidden is exploding out a she hit her lowest point in her life. A time she needs support and now once again finds herself in Katara's shoes. It breaks a person and tears them down. This attitude, this personality type is toxic for the person in question. In the end it is the cause if all their pain and suffering. Katara's is the most tragic story of them all in the show. Far more tragic than Aang or Zuko. She suffers the most out of everyone. This one episode is a small glimpse of the emotions boiling beneath the surface. This one episode is truer to her character than any other.
@@professorsassafras same. For me, i agree that people unfairly latch on to the southern raiders episode to hate on Katara. Even if it would be better for her personally in the long run, she does not owe anyone forgiveness, and is not unduely angry at the raiders. MY problems with Katara lie elsewhere. Not in that shes poorly written, but that shes a well written, flawed person who needed more growth to be likeable. She constantly gets on everyones ass about putting personal things aside, not adventuring or gambling or making waves so they can continue on with their mission(s). Yet, the MILLISECOND she wants to do something--all the way from s1 when she wants to beat THE AVATAR in waterbending and gets them caught by Zuko, all the way in s3 (showing no growth) when she stops everything to be the Painted Lady for ONE village. The WORLD is at stake. Both an example of ego stroking. Shes a hypocrite. Even though she's a grounding character for Sokka(by process of elimination), shes also a nagger and abuser. She LOVES making him the butt of jokes and tearing him down for silly things. I dont remember her ever congratulating him in a meaningful way in any of his plans, his success in getting their father, or his sword arc. Sh3s a bitch, and she doesnt appreciate Sokka at all, it seems. F*cking THEN, despite being a "stand in" for a mom because Sokka never had anyone else, she puts her grief above his, screams at him that "he didnt love mom as much as her" (AFTER SHE KNEW Sokka saw her as a surrogate) and NEVER, EVER APOLOGIZED for her spiteful, hateful words. Shes a mega bitch. Then theres her general busy body-ness i cant stand. Never lets amyone have their own conflicts without putting her big nose where it doesnt belong, then will make a 2 way fight a 3 way if they dont agree with her, and she never changes until her ego is stroked, like the clip of sokka and toph talking. Once stroked, then she changes. It culminates into her butting in to the Zuko Azula fight--the fight ZUKO HAD 100000% HANDLED, and because Zuko had to protect her and split his focus, it almost cost him his life, and he never got the win he HAD abd DESERVED. She also plays a long manipulationg game with Aang, constantly catching and berating him when he says things like "i wouldnt kiss you" in the love tunnels, then spurning his desires later on in a "youre unfairly expecting this of me" way instead of an "there are feelings but nows not the time" way, when she has GENUINELY lead him on before (dancing at the fire school, jealosy for his attention, the entire secret tunnel episode etc) Beyond that there was one mishandling in her writing, mainly that she mastered Water Vendong too well too fast. So yall, focus your hate to where it belongs. Because Katara does at least get the southern raiders point 😆
Katara is also the only one who was physically present at the time of the traumatic event. Sokka was outside throwing snowballs at Fire Nation guys while his mom was killed, and Aang was submerged in the ocean while the Air Nomads were eradicated. Katara saw the face of the man who killed her mom. The man was there to kill her, the last southern waterbender, and her mom died specifically to protect her. If aang or sokka had been in that situation, you can't tell me that they wouldn't react the same way (or worse!) if they realized they could take revenge. Look how angry and violent sokka got with Azula just for putting Suki in prison. Look how violent got when appa was stolen. In fact, if Katara hadn't been there to calm him down, he most likely would've killed those sandbenders. So their disregard of her rage and pain and desire for retribution seems pretty tone deaf, if not outright callous.
I HATE how they reacted. When Sokka starting lecturing her about not going I felt that same rage she did towards them. They are used to her being the hopeful, compassionate and kind one. Usually when women like Katara lash out, people have MUCH harsher reaction then when someone as routinely belligerent and abusive as Zuko used to be, lashes out. People like Katara are other people’s safe space. When SHE expresses an emotion as powerful and as scary as pure rage, it scares people. This is what we get for telling women to suppress deeper anger and rage lest we get called crazy. I think it’s also why so many people in fandom project unusually negative ‘deceptive’ personalities traits onto kind and compassionate presenting characters. Like “there is no way you are all good, there must be something bad about you’. And when she acts human they go ‘Aha!’ That’s why the fandom fixates so much on her mistakes but forgets or rationalizes the mistakes of the others. They don’t humanize her like they do the others.
right?! i love that so many fans see the southern raiders as a "zutara torpedo," "see zuko brings out the WORST in katara!" when i just see katara being an actual 3-dimensional well-developed character. rather than seeing zuko bringing out the worst in katara, i see zuko VALIDATING katara, giving her what she actually needs, respecting her for who she is warts & all. it's probably the single purest depiction of true love in the entire series.
For me, i agree that people unfairly latch on to the southern raiders episode to hate on Katara. Even if it would be better for her personally in the long run, she does not owe anyone forgiveness, and is not unduely angry at the raiders. MY problems with Katara lie elsewhere. Not in that shes poorly written, but that shes a well written, flawed person who needed more growth to be likeable. She constantly gets on everyones ass about putting personal things aside, not adventuring or gambling or making waves so they can continue on with their mission(s). Yet, the MILLISECOND she wants to do something--all the way from s1 when she wants to beat THE AVATAR in waterbending and gets them caught by Zuko, all the way in s3 (showing no growth) when she stops everything to be the Painted Lady for ONE village. The WORLD is at stake. Both an example of ego stroking. Shes a hypocrite. Even though she's a grounding character for Sokka(by process of elimination), shes also a nagger and abuser. She LOVES making him the butt of jokes and tearing him down for silly things. I dont remember her ever congratulating him in a meaningful way in any of his plans, his success in getting their father, or his sword arc. Sh3s a bitch, and she doesnt appreciate Sokka at all, it seems. F*cking THEN, despite being a "stand in" for a mom because Sokka never had anyone else, she puts her grief above his, screams at him that "he didnt love mom as much as her" (AFTER SHE KNEW Sokka saw her as a surrogate) and NEVER, EVER APOLOGIZED for her spiteful, hateful words. Shes a mega bitch. Then theres her general busy body-ness i cant stand. Never lets amyone have their own conflicts without putting her big nose where it doesnt belong, then will make a 2 way fight a 3 way if they dont agree with her, and she never changes until her ego is stroked, like the clip of sokka and toph talking. Once stroked, then she changes. It culminates into her butting in to the Zuko Azula fight--the fight ZUKO HAD 100000% HANDLED, and because Zuko had to protect her and split his focus, it almost cost him his life, and he never got the win he HAD abd DESERVED. She also plays a long manipulationg game with Aang, constantly catching and berating him when he says things like "i wouldnt kiss you" in the love tunnels, then spurning his desires later on in a "youre unfairly expecting this of me" way instead of an "there are feelings but nows not the time" way, when she has GENUINELY lead him on before (dancing at the fire school, jealosy for his attention, the entire secret tunnel episode etc) Beyond that there was one mishandling in her writing, mainly that she mastered Water Vendong too well too fast. So yall, focus your hate to where it belongs. Because Katara does at least get the southern raiders point 😆
Its very telling that when male characters like Aang and Zuko lash out and hurt the people they love due to their grief or trauma it’s seen as what it is (them at their lowest, a realistic representation of the way that pain can negatively manifest), but when the female love interest does the exact same thing it’s “wow, she’s such a bitch”. If that was Aang unfairly yelling at his friends (again) they wouldn’t bat an eyelash. And not to mention that Katara is RIGHT
This. It sucks how the same people who about Aang in the desert rush to defend him saying "Remeber he's a 12 year old boy who's lost his entire culture and so on" while bashing Katara for being in the same state.
@@BlackMercura some of the memes in the intro were WILD. comparing katara's loss & grief to "toph's parents aren't supportive!" or "appa & momo are" ANIMALS. THEY ARE LITERALLY ANIMALS. not to mention dragging zuko into when zuko was AGREEING with katara the entire time.
@@MargaretS-e1g I totally agree that’s my point though, every character has moments where they go too far. Why is it that Katara in her worst moments gets treated differently than them in theirs? Cause she’s a woman 🤷♀️
For both Sokka and Aang, even though they’ve experienced loss, it’s been expressly or impliedly stated that the love they receive from Katara has helped to ease their pain. As evidence, we have Sokka’s confession to Toph that Katara has basically been a surrogate mother to him. And for Aang, in The Guru episode, Pathik implies that the love that Aang used to get from the Air Nomads has been “reborn” into Katara. In other words, Katara is literally a surrogate for Aang’s entire community…which is a lot to put on the shoulders of one 14-year-old girl. But as for Katara herself? She has no one to replace her mother. She basically had to become her own mom and parent herself.
@@canvas_125 kind of unfair to sokka who tryed to be the one katara could count on but he always fell short he was always being protective of her and try to be a good big brother to her and aang
@@reynellfreeman8761 Yeah, but he was very immature, especially in the beginning. Their first scene together ends in her breaking down because he doesn't help her with the responsibilities of their life.
@@reynellfreeman8761 he didn’t try very hard💀 did you forget when he was sexist asf? most of his life he was like that until suki slapped him into shape
@@Asami0303 not really if Katara is the mother of the group Sokka is the dad as the oldest he looks after katara aang and toph despite what they can do maybe I'm speaking as an older brother myself despite my sister being a nurse I still look after her and try to be there if she needs me that's just what big brothers do
People tend to forget that Katara blames HERSELF for her mother's death, after finding out that her mother wasn't the last waterbender in the southern water tribe. Honestly that must've been devastating for a little girl.
The problem is that Katara didn't really grow or learn to not put her trauma as a shroud since that does negatively impact her relationships with others since she weaponizes that trauma as a defense from legitimate criticism. Aang by contrast learned to put aside the trauma he experienced as a way to put his duties of being the Avatar first. Katara could learn the same thing by putting her relationships first but the show doesn't delve into that. Instead Katara only learns to forgive those that have nothing to do with her trauma which is good but the show ignored Kataras main problem.
"Katara isn't a demon or an angel" Nope. She's only human. She's allowed to lash out, she's allowed to be flawed and she's allowed to feel. After all, isn't that what makes us human?
Iroh accompanied zuko throughout his conquest of capturing avatar. He knew zuko's hatred wouldn't solve anything but he just let zuko continued the conquest. Eventually it's zuko himself learned from his mistakes and moved on. Iroh way on handling zuko is the same tactic zuko used to helped katara in southern raiders. He didn't ask her way of thinking, he didn't challenge her thought process, he just accompanied her. Thus resulting katara's decision herself that concluded the hatred chapter. Choosing zuko as katara companion in southern raiders was very well thought. I salute the writer for that
Oh, I love this take! I always thought Zuko was trying (and hilariously failing) to channel Iroh with Sokka during the Boiling Rock episode, but he managed to do it so effortlessly here with Katara. Great analysis 👍
That's a really good point. I noticed (and appreciated) that Zuko lets Katara take the lead and accompanies here mainly as her backup/support. He'll offer an opinion, but never tries to argue her into accepting it. But I hadn't liked it to Iroh taking the same approach with Zuko. Good spot!
Katara being blamed for not forgiving the man who murdered her mother is like assault survivors being told to forgive their attackers. It completely dismisses the pain and trauma inflicted upon the person and places an unfair expectation of forgiving someone who neither deserves or is willing to redeem themselves. Some people have committed such heinous acts, inflicted such unimaginable pain on others that they are beyond forgiveness forever. It's cruel and unfair to tell survivors to "Be the bigger person" and negate the trauma that they may and will likely still be dealing with for the rest of their lives.
That's not what people were mad at katara for. People hated katara this episode because of what she said to sokka. That he didn't love his mother enough. They both missed her and sure sokka can't remember her face but the things she did for him growing up are in his heart. Katara stepped on that and never apologized for being so callous. Her feelings about her mother are so strong because her mother literally died for her. Not one of those jump infront of an incoming atk because they are my kid thing but lie about something and take responsibility for it things. Katara knew that. That's why she was so much more special to her. Sokka who wanted to be like his dad didn't love his mom any less then katara. On a real point though I'd like to know who betrayed katara in the first place. That person deserves death the most. Almost as much for the being who killed her mother. Look at the situation. The fire nation had been going to the village for years and took all the waterbenders. They stopped when grangran friend was captured. That means someone saw a smol katara bend then snitched on a 4 year old. Did you see her cute face. Look at their family sokka and katara both were adorable little kids and someone snitched on em. Granted they didn't tell them who she was but they did tell them that the village had a waterbender.
@@Ando1428 Except that's not what Katara said. She said 'then you didn't love her like I did' which, a) is objectively true (people keep saying 'she's Sokka's mother too' as if Sokka hadn't admitted a few episodes earlier that he couldn't even remember his mother's face because Katara was always there, filling that hole in his life in a way she didn't have anyone to do for her), and b) is NOT the same thing as claiming that he didn't love her enough or even as much as she did. They loved her in very different ways, they missed her and GRIEVED for her in very different ways, and Sokka was being dismissive of Katara's pain when he sided with Aang, who had just compared her to someone who'd wanted to commit actual mass murder of innocent civilians. Maybe Katara should have apologized to Sokka for lashing out at him, but Sokka should have apologized to Katara for dismissing her pain and siding with someone who compared her to someone willing to murder innocent people to achieve his ends, when all she wanted was the chance for CLOSURE. (Something that, as she proved later in the episode, didn't require murder at all.) Sokka's words were just as harmful as Katara's were, but no one who blames Katara in this episode seems to want to acknowledge that, and it's infuriating.
She was going to kill that man if Aang didn't remind her not to. Are you saying that killing that man would bring her happiness?! No, Sure her mother wouldn't want her daughter to kill at all.
@@Whocares158 But like when¿ Aang’s comments didn’t help her, confronting the man who killed her mother and getting closure is the thing that helped her finally begin to heal. Y’all like to praise Aang when all he did was trying to sanitize Katara’s feelings.
@@Whocares158 No, katara got to heal bcz she got to go on that journey( which zuko enabled for her) If she thought Aang did help her then why is she disagreeing with him in the end? Bcz i clearly remember katara saying, Katara : I didn''t forgive him, I'll never forgive him. If she really thought Aang's words had any merit then she wouldn't have been upset with him in the end. Katara let yon rha go bcz she's not that kind of person, not bcz of anything aang said.
ngl, I really enjoyed seeing Katara "lash out". She felt a bit more free in this episode, a little less airbrushed, a little less smooth. A characters highs should correlate to their lows. It always felt a bit weird only seeing "perfect", kind, nurturing Katara on screen without dvelving into what it takes her to be that way.
I read this tweet like a while ago that said "Why do people hate characters that react to trauma realistically". First thing I thought of was Katara. She literally witnessed her mother's death and was actually present for the waterbender's genocide.
Katara shares her trauma and pain over losing Kya with Jet, Haru, and Zuko, all possible love interests for her imo, unlike previous two, Zuko offers her a closure, and a chance of vengeance, and Katara takes that chance to face Yon Rha. She is 100% justified in her anger and the final decision she made against Yon Rha is hers and hers alone.
I don’t think I’ve really seen it mentioned but it’s likely that Katara also feels a lot of guilt from her mother’s death, as she died specifically to protect her. So, she not only had to fill the role of mother, she also had to cope with (by herself because no one seemed to see fit to comfort her at all until Zuko) the fact that she had to step into that role because of her mother wanting to save her, and the sort of self-loathing that might breed in someone who might feel resentful that they have been forced into a role they weren’t ready for.
this is perfect. i love how "you sound like jet" fits under "how to hurt a girl in 5 syllables or less" lmao i'm cackling. i'd also like to point out that even the writers of the show themselves understood that katara's trauma over the loss of her mother is a big part of who she is as a character and not just a plot device, and this is evident in their careful word choice for That Line that everyone rages over: katara says "then you didn't love her *the way* i did" not "then you didn't love her *as much* as i did" and there's a world of difference between the two sentences. and honestly... it's true. even sokka himself admits that he can no longer remember kya's face. even their recollections of the day their mother died are different. katara being more profoundly affected by her mother's death is just like how sokka is closer to and shown as more eager to impress their father than katara is. sure, sokka deserves an apology for the harsh line, but katara dOES NOT deserve the slander. thank you for this i've watched all your videos now and i'm not pressuring you to make more atla content but *please make more atla content* i'll take anything at this point. even an analysis on cabbage merchant.
You subtly touched on a number of reasons why Zutarians like Zutara. Kataang seems to be more about Aang than about both of them and Katara treats Aang more like a caretaker than a lover/partner (a common rebuttal to this is that Katara treats everyone like that but I like that Zuko is the one person in the group that she doesn’t have to parent or coddle) and she always has to prioritize his wants/needs/feelings over her own and Aang doesn’t accept it when she doesn’t act like the perfect angel he sees her as. A lot of anti-Zutarians think that because Aang is the more stereotypical “nice guy”, he’d treat Katara better than Zuko and say that Zutara is toxic and they’d argue all the time (this is especially ironic if said by a Maiko shipper. At least when Zutara argue it’s sexy, just saying).
Zuko has a very conflicted personality, which is why people are calling Zuko/Katara toxic. If there was a season 4 and we got to see more of Zuko being his new self and treating everyone nicely, I think it would be easier to say that he is better for Katara than Aang. Katara and Zuko are definitely hot, but we get to see Zuko being good for a very short period of time
@@alext-rex5492I must say I don’t really agree with what you’re saying because Zuko’s character arc is clear and we see it from the beginning to the end. When you watch the last season of Avatar I’m pretty sure nobody think that Zuko would pull up a reverse card again, or turn his back against team Aang again. We saw the whole process of his mind from the beginning to the end of the story. Plus, and that’s the more important part for me, I feel like Zuko and Katara’s relationship has developed more in 4 episodes than Aang and Katara in the whole show, and by that I mean that Katara never got to be vulnerable around Aang, when she got to be with Zuko even before he joined the team (which is why she was so angry at him). In the three seasons, I don’t remember Aang calming down Katara when she was angry, he rather ran away from her and that’s ok, because it’s shown that Aang doesn’t like confrontation (honestly I’m like him 😂). She was always a support for him but he never was for her (I’m talking emotionally)
Ok so going back to why is Katara's grief different? Because her mother died for HER. Her mother did not die protecting her tribe she died protecting Katara because she was a water bender. I see this as one of Katara's driving reasons that she wants to be a master water bender. She needs to prove to herself that she was worth her mother's sacrifice. What a lot of people seem to forget is that Aang was not the only one to lose his people and his way of life. Katara had the same thing happen to her and while Aang may have to wonder what he could have done if he had not run away Katara knows there was never anything she could have done.
I've been arguing this for years, and all the hate (honestly thinly veiled misogyny) that got thrown Katara's way just made me leave the fandom years ago. The hate comes in waves with every new surge of the fandom, and way back it was definitely a lot more unfiltered and glaring. Katara is my comfort character (I think that's what you call it). I have related to her since I watched the show as a kid, because I went through the same deal. I was always the one to take on the surrogate mother role, to comfort, to suppress my own heartache and emotions to soothe the emotions and heartache of others. Especially when my family had to go through several losses, and I had to be there for my siblings. People mad at Katara seriously lack the insight and emotional understanding to sympathize with her, and to be honest? I think it stems from a disdain that a feminine caretaker would dare take care of fhemselves and be human sometimes. They put Katara on a pedestal, much like Aang had, and whenever she made it known she was human it confused people and they felt she was no longer "in character" due to her not conforming to their expectations of being perfect all the time. It's like when an entitled old man calls his wife a nag or a harpy for asserting any needs, or a bitch for not putting up with everything with a smile. It's gross, but sadly the price when you have a feminine caretaker character that also has every other character projecting their own idealized version of the caretaker onto them. It gets lost that Katara is really her own person, not just a support character to project onto.
This. It's disturbing seeing the same people who completely understand, justify and sympathize with Aang's irrational state in the desert don't understand Katara who's pretty much in the same state. Clearly they have no understanding of childhood trauma and loss of loved ones.
You NAILED. No notes. Completely nailed it. This is exactly why I relate to Katara and why I despise the fandom for being so insensitive with her. They come up with the stupidest reason to hate her.
I never even got a truly murderous vibe from Katara through all this. Angry and possibly somewhat violent, sure, but not to the point that the intention was to actually kill. It seemed like she just needed to face the guy and scream at him and finally got her chance. Catharsis doesn't need to be murderous. It reminds me of when Zuko faced Ozai, said what he needed to, and only used violence to defend himself. I wish there would have been more dialogue in TSR. would've liked to see her slap him though.
there was a scene were zuko put a blanket over katara and with more interactions but bryke cut that from the script😑, like they literally had to cut ZKs interactions bcz they felt that, that threatened their self insert ship. But hey, atleast we finally got ZK friendship and katara wearing zuko's clothes for a whole episode.
I'm very curious about this too. When the scriptwriters guild reopens in LA, if I'm still living here I will definitely check out the Southern Raiders episode and see if I find any discrepancies! 😂
@@lakshana.p2217 i'm sorry i haven't got any links like that, I heard it from a person who worked on atla and they said that that bryke found the original script too " shippy". I mean, they obviously had to have rested for a while, appa couldn't fly forever, could he!? what i wouldn't give to read Elizabeth welch's original story before bryke meddled with it.....
One other thing I’d note is that what the Fire Nation did to the Southern Water Tribe also counts as genocide. The Fire Nation deliberately and systematically attempted to erase a vital part of the Tribe’s culture by kidnapping or killing all of its waterbenders, which also led to Kya’s murder. The attempted destruction of a people’s culture also falls under the definition of genocide.
I think a reason why the fandom doesn’t acknowledge the SWT genocide as bad as a genocide as the Air Nomads genocide is bc in the SWT one, they were only looking for waterbenders and so some of them still survived while all the Nomads were killed, bender or not, so none of them were left. Obviously, what happened to the SWT is still a genocide tho. If people wanna acknowledge that the Air Nomad killings were genocide, they must also acknowledge that the killing of benders in the SWT is also genocide.
The thing with the Air Nomads is that Bryke at one point confirmed that Air Nomads are ALL airbenders (....for some reason). That's supposedly why the FN tried to wipe them all out - there wasn't such a thing as directly targeting only the benders (like in the WTs). Not that it justifies either genocide, of course. I also think it's an odd writing choice to make the Air Nomads to be all benders... I have opinions on that. But that's totally off-topic, lol
@@SneezyReviews It sounds like a writing choice made to explain why/how the Air NOMADS could have all been wiped out, with "spirituality" being used as an excuse to rationalize it
Another thing to consider about Katara's trauma in relation to Sokka's: the implications of flashback to Kya's death in "The Southern Raiders." It suggests that Katara (as a very young child) had to see her mother's corpse in the immediate aftermath of what Yon Rha did to her while Sokka presumably didn't. That, in addition to Katara having to lose her childhood innocence to taking on the maternal role for her family and later the Team Avatar group, further compounds the impact of her loss.
yes yes yes. with the avatar "renaissance" that came about after it got on netflix i've noticed so much more katara slander. people will make fun of her for her grief while holding her to impossibly high standards. and it hasn't escaped my notice that katara, being a pillar of specifically feminine strength and having traditionally feminine qualities, is disrespected and hated while female characters with a more masculine approach to strength (like toph) are praised and revered. it's misogyny babes!! but no, katara showing her strength through her emotional intelligence, vulnerability, and endless patience and hope is treated as a sign of weakness. i could go on and on about this, but the jist is that people aren't trained to see traditionally feminine qualities as possessing equal strength to tranditionally masculine qualities, and women(especially brown women!!) are never allowed to lose their temper or make any mistakes without bringing wrath down upon their heads. great video sneezy
This looks to me like Jk Rowling's writing when Harry compares Ginny to Cho Chang due to the latter being more sensitive and the former being tougher, the lavender and hermione thing is the same thing, try another way rowling this is misogynistic
It shows who the real monsters are, katara is a human being, not an angel! And the ludicrous accusations are a reflection of what's in their hearts, whether they realize it or not. And Aang is a kid and katara is Teen that's approaching adulthood! Reason why katara is under such slander is because we the audience are looking at it from aang's perspective and view. But what about katara's POV? katara had bear the burden of being the strong motherly-figure in gang's lives, except zuko! Yet, once katara gets her time to show her humanity, she's villafied for it! Some of her words was harsh and I didn't like it but, I didn't hate her for it! The southern raiders episode made me love katara and zuko even more after sneezy's video on zutara I'm an official zutara shipper zuko and katara share better and healthier chemistry than aang and katara!
@@Firebender554omg yes! They WORSHIP Sokka. And he is great don’t get me wrong but holy crap 😅. He is far more of an a-hole than Katara but that’s just a quirk for them.
Fun facts: Katara mentionned her mother only 6 times in the 66 episodes of 25min 😁, but people still find a way to make fun of it or find it annoying. Like if she was talking abt it all minutes of the show. THEN of course, doesn’t had a problem with Zuko honor (for exemple) smh. This fandoms is very hypocritical.. sometimes. Make it sense ?
One character I like to compare Katara to a lot is Harry from Harry Potter - Harry is another character whose parents died to protect him, and whose grief becomes a core part of his identity and sense of self. Harry's angst over his family comes up several times (the movies especially seem to play up his angsty side and downplay the other facets of his character). Yet I rarely see any memes of Harry being too whiny about his orphan status, lol. I can't help feeling like if JK had written HP with a female protag, the fandom might have been a little less forgiving towards the angst, lol. I can't prove it though, it's just a hunch.
@@SneezyReviews IKR !! Good parallel ! I agreed I bet that if it was a « HARLEY Potter », fandom will drag this antagonist like neverrr, jump at her like piranhas lmaooo. Double Standard……. We see you 👀. Thank you for you responding ! Btw Excellent analysis 🔥
So a lot of jokes about Katara's mother is ignoring the trauma, and a lot of jokes about Zuko's honor are nothing? XD I didn't hate Katara, but this... This stupid to me.
@@Idkidc2173 who said that it was nothing ? Re-read my comment one another time bc that definitely wasn’t my point ….. XD Please can you write the exact sentence where you think I’m saying that. Bc i can’t see where you see that bruh. My point is that Katara get MORE hate for mentionned her mother than Zuko mentionned his honor and that don’t make sense, It’s a fact. I just point the fact that Katara is the ONE that MOST people or hating and making joke on whereas she’s even not talking abt it several time like ppl love to make it seems like. Not Zuko. Not as much as Katara. You can’t deny it.
@@Idkidc2173 maybe ppl are joking abt his honor ( and that’s not fair too for me) but I never seen anyone hate him for this. Never seen. Sadly that not the same for a certain girl who had only mentioned her mother 6 times, her name is K…..?
The thing that ppl doesn’t understand with Katara’s quote to Aang « I knew that you wouldn’t understand » , is that she DIDN’T say that he wouldn’t understand how it feels to lost someone, of course she KNOW that he understand this, the dude lost his entire people, Katara is not stupid like a lot person loooove to make it seems like (only God know why lol).But the thing he didn’t understand is her way to deals with trauma. Nobody have the same way to deals with it. But Aang, doesn’t make an effort to accept/understand her need of revenge and try to impose his own way to deals with trauma. Aang deal with trauma with forgiveness. Katara deal with it with revenge. She’s right, he wouldn’t understand. He’s a monk.
the same thing is with zuko and mai, finally mai decides to express herself in the bonfire scene and zuko says he likes her to express herself, and she says "whatever" - it doesn't help how you've been behaving. honey he's behaving that way because he's confused and you being apathetic to everything he says makes him more explosive. I like Mai but why is she dating zuko anyway?
@@danielalaiz419 Mai said it doesn’t excuse the way zuko was acting. And she’s right lol as harsh as this may sound…I’ve been saying this for a long time. I don’t care that she lost her mother, I don’t give a fuck that she’s only 14. The bs she told sokka was inexcusable, insensitive, and frankly disgusting! Imagine it were the other way around for corn sake! I’m in my 20s and was taught a harsh life lesson about life: “no one cares about your sob story, because we’ve all been through things” and it’s true…the world doesn’t give a shit, people could care less about you. And that’s why I’m glad aang and sokka called her out. They’ve been through shit as well, and their pain shouldn’t be negated. Katara isn’t more important than anyone else. Katara isn’t a poorly written character by any means but at the very least sokka deserved an apology.
@@danielalaiz419 I very much do😊 what i said was a painful fact. i refuse to tip toe around people's feelings. if you can't handle it...not my problem go ask someone else to babysit you're feeings.
This entire video was just amazing. THANK YOU for addressing that fact that in most episodes, Aang isn't visibly burdened by the death of his people (likely because it'd be a bit too grim and sad for a children's show). Just because he is able to remain mostly happy and carefree doesn't mean others should have to do so. The Katara's mom memes tend to grate on my nerves a bit as well. The Southern Raiders is literally the only time in the whole series that Katara brings up her mom that isn't a way to empathize with someone (or deliver exposition once in the first episode, and even then it was a rant about smelly socks, not her mom). So yeah, thank you so much for making this video! :)
One thing that people need to realize is that grief cannot be compared with other people's grief. They are too personal, too painful and too incomparable. People who compare grief have never experienced true depths of hell that it brings you down to. Never put someone down because of their pain.
Thank you so much for this video! I always thought the attacks of Katara's character took on misogynistic undertones. She does all this thankless emotional labor which is completely taken for granted (both by the characters in the show and by the audience) and then the second she doesn't measure up to this self-denying, nurturing feminine ideal, now she's a self-centered [insert expletive of your choosing]. The absolute vilification of Katara who is really the only feminine main character in the show (besides, idk, Ty Lee?) juxtaposed with fans' adulation of the "groundbreaking" (haha, get it?) Toph who is presented on numerous occasions as "just one of the boys" couldn't be more stark a contrast. And I don't want to make it a Toph vs Katara thing, I like both characters... Binary representations are extremely reductive and portrayals of femininity and girlhood/womanhood are polarized enough as it is. But just like, the fan reaction... I think is kind of telling in terms of, like, commonplace disdain for femininity. The jokes and memes about Katara touching her necklace and always bringing up her mother really speak to an inability to take women's/girls' negative emotions, pain, and trauma seriously. And then when an episode actually tries to contend with those negative emotions, because we (by we, I mean fans) never took her trauma seriously, now all of a sudden she's "acting out of character" or "unrecognizable" or "must be influenced by mr bad boy". I really appreciate how you pointed out how many of these takes completely strip Katara of her agency the one time she's given an opportunity to exercise it. Gosh, Katara was one of the few characters I really saw myself in as a little brown/tan girl. And, I think when I was a kid and even a teenager, I always aligned more with Aang in TSR and was confused why Katara needed to go on that journey. But, at that time, I was in denial of my own trauma and expected myself to be nothing short of that self-denying feminine ideal. I wasn't being fair to myself. As I've come to face my own trauma, I have a better understanding of how vital it was for Katara to undergo that journey. I just wish I had seen more stories of girls confronting their darkness and grief instead of swallowing their pain when I was younger because somehow or other the messaging I recieved was that I needed to swallow mine, too.
I'd start to point out all the times in the show when Katara is obviously valued by the other characters ('taken for granted' my arse) but why bother? It was a good rant you had going though at the expense of the other characters. As for your trauma (Whatever it is or was) it's turned you from an 'emotional doormat' to someone who thinks showing caring emotions is weakness. Yep, any partner of yours better be prepared to 'nurture' themselves , or if you 'deign' to do it, they better be sure to reciprocate (the exact number of times too!) every smile, every pat on the shoulder, every hug, kiss, or any other form of what you consider 'emotional labor' or you'll let them know it! It's obvious you still have big problems or you could never write the misanthropic take on Avatar that you did. There's a heck of alot of nuance and growth by all the characters in this show. Oh, and the world isn't nice to anyone and it esp doesn't value men's emotions ( I mean if we ever have any except anger and lust amirite?) so we early learn to 'suck up' lots of our pain and anguish. Welcome to the real world.
@@remo27 I'm quite baffled,,, I have no idea why my comment struck such a nerve with you. I don't think I did a disservice to any of the characters in the show, as my criticism was primarily pointed at fan reaction... Please don't assume things about me, my life, or my trauma. You are a stranger on the internet, you know nothing about me, and it's belittling to say things like "whatever it is/was" as if you don't actually believe me when I say I experienced trauma. (you're kind of proving my point... abt not taking women's trauma seriously...) No, I don't think showing caring is weakness. (When did I ever say anything even remotely like that?) Being caring and considerate is something I strive to do all. the. time. But, I'm not superhuman, and I don't always have to fall on the sword for someone else's sake. My emotional needs and wellbeing aren't less important than anyone else's. As for your rant about me finding a "partner",,, like... it sounds like you're talking about an ex... Anyway, I'm aro/ace, so I don't want a partner, lmao. Literally the last concern on my mind so that wasn't the put-down you thought it was. And yeah, hypothetically if i were to have a partner, yes, I would want a relationship that's mutual and reciprocal... where both people's emotional investment is equal... Equality and reciprocity in relationships, what a radical concept! Ummm, I think the real "misanthropic take" is saying that "the world isn't nice to anyone," but that that's just the way the world is, so you've gotta suck it up, and we should all just suffer in pain cuz "welcome to the real world"... Pause for a moment. Why would you want to live in a world like that? Where people of all sorts just have to suffer in silence? The world isn't fixed, it's not forever destined to be that way. If you think that's a problem, why not be part of the solution? And I agree with you, men's non-violent emotions are discarded and devalued. That's the thing about a hegemonic masculinity that demands men to be invulnerable-even as men stand to benefit the most from it, it ultimately comes at a great cost to them.
@Sunday Girl Actually, the 'worst crime' a female character of the 'traditional feminine' type can commit is to to be openly proud of her sexuality, or sexual choices, esp if she is sexually aggressive, since femininity is (wrongly of course) associated with submissiveness. Also, you are overlooking the fact that Katara, by openly fighting is already breaking many 'feminine' stereotypes. So no, I'd not say Katara is 'traditionally feminine' in the sense that she fights and takes on the 'male role' in many ways. NONE of the characters in Avatar with the exception of maybe Zuko (and I'll have to think about him more) are totally 'traditional' when it comes to 'Gender Roles'. And even if , off-the cuff- I'm right in my impression of Zuko, you'll note he doesn't try to impose 'tradition' on anyone else. Also , you seem to be asserting that no females can dislike Katara. I can assure you there are quite a few who do. Some downright hate 'femininity' - just as some males hate 'masculinity' (and not just any 'toxic' type). I have no doubt that some people had issues with Katara being less nurturing or 'nice'. But I doubt most of the fandom cares. The story is too good, and almost all of the character reactions make sense which is a sign of good storytelling.
@@carolinea6769 : @remo27 I'm quite baffled,,, I have no idea why my comment struck such a nerve with you. I don't think I did a disservice to any of the characters in the show, as my criticism was primarily pointed at fan reaction... "...Completely taken for granted (both by the characters in the show and by the audience) and then the second she doesn't measure up to this self-denying, nurturing feminine ideal, now she's a self-centered [insert expletive of your choosing]" Remember that? You led off with that attack. Not just on your fellow fans, the vast vast majority who went nowhere NEAR such an over-reaction to this episode (on the forums I was on when I watched it the big 'controversy' was over Katara using blood bending which many men and women who deem themselves progressive compare to rape, and yet even they weren't downright hating on Katara or calling her names or anything), but on the other avatar characters themselves. And very unfairly, I might add. "Please don't assume things about me, my life, or my trauma. You are a stranger on the internet, you know nothing about me, and it's belittling to say things like "whatever it is/was" as if you don't actually believe me when I say I experienced trauma. (you're kind of proving my point... abt not taking women's trauma seriously...) " This would normally be a fair expectation, but you assumed lots of things about your fellow fans. On top of that , whatever it is/was shows I have no idea what happened to you (obviously something had to happen for me not to have a clue what it was or is), I don't see how that sentence can possibly be twisted into any kind of 'doubt' you were traumatized. Your 'point' about 'not taking women's trauma seriously' is just something I've seen rehashed hundreds of times since I've been on the internet (since 1995) or started reading political magazines/books/letters sections back in the late 1970's as a rather precocious child. At this point I have to wonder if you even pay attention to the society and world you live in. "Me Too" was all about women's feelings. When putting a hand on a knee 20 years ago can become a political thing and get a guy censored or fired (This actually happened in the UK google it), then we see policy subordinated to feelings. Even 'retroactive' ones, which is ridiculous and totally unfair. In the US the US Supreme Court has set the standard by which 'sexual harassment' claims are to be judged. They had several choices: "Reasonable man " (since most defendants are men this would help the defense usually) "Reasonable Woman" or the default , neutral, "Reasonable Person". They chose "Reasonable Woman". One could write a book on this stuff and I could give many more examples, but at the simplest level : we have policies and even laws that downright privilege female emotions over male ones or that make evoking certain emotions a crime. To my knowledge the US has no laws or policies that prioritize male feelings in any civilly or criminal adjudicatable way except the Sexual Harassment ones and those require (due to the Judicial standard) extra proof on the part of the male when he is accusing a female of that crime. From Victims Advocates in the legal system to sexual trauma units and special sexual assault units, I'd say the idea that our society doesn't value women's feelings or trauma (not the same thing) is laughably wrong. An individual man might not care for women in generals feelings or your feelings in some specific setting but that is not the same thing at all. That's someone maybe being a jerk, and jerks have existed forever. "No, I don't think showing caring is weakness. (When did I ever say anything even remotely like that?) Being caring and considerate is something I strive to do all. the. time. But, I'm not superhuman, and I don't always have to fall on the sword for someone else's sake. My emotional needs and wellbeing aren't less important than anyone else's." I think I misunderstood because you constantly said caring was a traditionally feminine role. But it's obvious you don't hate the feminine, instead the real problem is the idea of Emotional Labor. The idea is this: A smile, a hug, an expression of concern or a 'listening ear' is something that no woman ever wants to do or even (at least sometimes) ENJOYS doing. Either she's brainwashed into doing it by the nebulous ethereal 'patriarchy', or she's pressured into doing it because of 'society' which usually doesn't mean her friends or family or some busybody scold getting 'on her case' and making her feel bad, but instead a few TV shows, or books here and there (where you can find plenty of books that say the opposite esp these days). Anyway, given this 'horrible exploitation' , there's a Cosmic Ledger that needs to be balanced, at least say many feminists, and (since there shouldn't be any difference in the expression of emotions between men and women according to modern dogma) that means men are at fault. Now, maybe you didn't mean it that way. Maybe you meant that you had emotional needs too, and you never let yours show. Well, all I can say is that is not the normal path for girls or women. "Female tears" is a thing, and often results in action. We men may not express our emotions as much but we tend to expect that wives/girlfriends will. There's even a genre of jokes (that you probably hate) about it. So, believe it or not, WE expect (as a general role) to be doing most of the hugging/comforting/bottling up emotions. At least in normal relationships. Maybe most of the stuff you were exposed to was adventures or something where The Goal is all important and relationships are de-priortized at least compared to that. Anyway, men get punished by most (not all, and not always THANK GOD) women if we express weakness of any type, sometimes even sadness draws a shrug or a laugh. Ironic that most men expect to be doing most of the 'emotional labor' and don't complain about it, instead chalking it up to how MOST (once again not all) women are. The women who think about it on the other hand , tend to assign blame. I wonder which choice is more helpful? I know I'd rather my partner tell me her needs , rather than count any 'excess hugs' she gave away against me. Relationships are built on if your needs are meant. Just as people may have differing 'sex drives', people also have (due to luck of circumstance and to personality) differing 'emotional support needs' and the idea that these have to be 'in balance' is silly and unrealistic. If my needs in a given area are met, it's still a good relationship even if my partner seems to need 5 hugs to my 1. "Ummm, I think the real "misanthropic take" is saying that "the world isn't nice to anyone," but that that's just the way the world is, so you've gotta suck it up, and we should all just suffer in pain cuz "welcome to the real world"... Pause for a moment. Why would you want to live in a world like that? Where people of all sorts just have to suffer in silence? The world isn't fixed, it's not forever destined to be that way. If you think that's a problem, why not be part of the solution?" Nah, the 'misanthropic take' was yours as you assigned horrible thoughts and bad motivations about Katara to the entire (or nearly entire) Avatar fanbase. Misanthropy implies a hatred or disdain for humanity or a necessarily human attribute, not to the planet, the Universe or any other non-living or non-human system. "Why would I want to live in a world like that"? Now, aren't you assuming something about me? The world is as it is, I don't always have to like it. Women are, as women are, they are still going to exalt strength and punish weakness, esp as while I've seen 10000000000000 calls for and expressions that men 'should change' I don't think I've ever seen ONE (aside from a few small bloggers) saying women should change this or that thing about them. Given that, I don't magically expect things TO CHANGE, at least not any time soon. And as I've watched things that used to be nearly unalloyed good, become far more mixed in effect, or even downright destructive, I'm now too old and jaded to believe that all change is necessarily good.
@@remo27 It really should go without saying, but the characters in Avatar are fictional, they're pretend, they're made up. I can "attack," or more accurately, critique them as much as I want (not that I did in the first place) and it's completely fair game. But I didn't "attack" anyone or anything, I merely stated an observation. Now, you can have different observations from mine, but that doesn't necessarily mean that my observations are automatically wrong. My observation was that the copious examples of emotional labor performed by Katara largely go unrecognized both by characters in the show and by fans. This observation is informed by my own interpretation of the show (which is subject to my own biases and filtered through my past experiences and therefore highly subjective) and my own experiences in AtLA fan circles. You are free to disagree with me on this point, but I don't understand why you think it is something that is even arguable. My experiences =/= yours. Again, I didn't assume anything about my fellow fans. I didn't have to assume anything because what I said is observable. There are numerous examples in this very video of fans reacting exactly as I said they did. An unflattering observation =/= an "attack" or an "unfair assumption". Okay, my bad for reading doubt into your parenthetical "whatever is/was," but can you really blame me when the tone of your reply to me was incredibly rude and condescending throughout? Holy cow! "We have policies and even laws that downright privilege female emotions over male ones or that make evoking certain emotions a crime." SEXUAL ASSAULT IS A CRIME! OF COURSE WE HAVE LAWS THAT MAKE COMMITTING A CRIME CRIMINAL!!!! "Privilege female emotions over male ones".... Do you not understand that these male emotions you're talking about are men's desires to commit acts of sexual coercion and violence against women, and these female emotions you're talking about are women's desires to get a tiny amount of justice???? I don't have time to litigate sexual assault with you, so I will just link this journal publication that goes more in depth than I have the willpower to do: womenslawproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Rape-and-Sexual-Assault-in-the-Legal-System-FINAL.pdf I'll just say this, look at the statistics. The rate of "false accusations" of SA are no higher than the rate of false accusations for any other crime. For SA, it's only about 5%. The vast majority of cases of SA go unreported. Out of r*pe cases that go to court, only ~20% result in a conviction. But yeah, sure man. Tell me more about how the legal system "unfairly" favors women in SA cases. /s Here are some actual statistics on SA in the US: rainn.org/statistics/criminal-justice-system legaljobs.io/blog/sexual-assault-statistics/ "I think I misunderstood because you constantly said caring was a traditionally feminine role." ???? When? When did I said that? "Constantly" Pffft where?!?! I never said that, you did. Most emotional work (unpaid emotional labor) in relationships is performed by women for a variety of social, political, historic, and economic reasons. Here's a study that gets into it: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4617758/pdf/nihms-698328.pdf Most men are punished for emotional vulnerability by other MEN, not by women, though yes, women can still be awful about it. And here's an early study that explores this topic: link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/BF00288179.pdf "...people have (due to luck of circumstance and personality) differing 'emotional support needs' and the idea that these have to be 'in balance' is silly and unrealistic." How so? Why is balancing emotional needs in a relationship unrealistic? With good communication skills and mindfulness, it's very much achievable. Why is it "silly"? There's nothing trivial or frivolous about it, it's really quite key for a successful relationship. "In balance" doesn't have to mean equivalent so much as equitable. You do realize that emotional labor goes beyond just hugs and smiles, right? Lmao, the avatar characters aren't real!!! I don't even hate any of them, but even if I did, that's not misanthropy, by your own definition! I didn't "assigned horrible thoughts and bad motivations" to the Avatar fanbase, they revealed those things about themselves through their remarks! "Now, aren't you assuming..." Do you know what a rhetorical question is? I'd like to introduce you to a radical concept called intersectional feminism whose literature includes countless critiques of mainstream (white) feminism and women themselves. Great place to start would be Hood Feminism by Mikki Kendall which was published just last year. Just because you haven't come across calls inside the house for women to change doesn't mean they don't exist. Women can absolutely internalize and reproduce some toxic stuff, there's no disputing that, but these biased cultural frameworks exist to benefit some people at the expense of others. It's important to remember who actually holds the power.
How can someone who actually watched Zuko's change through the series can say that he wanted to be accepted by Katara too much that he was going to let her kill someone? (Or worse, not accepted but just to GET IN HER PANTS? Are we talking about the same character? You know Zuko aka Lord Honor?) But other than I can't believe that people actually getting triggered by Katara's trauma in the series. After all, no one can truly understand how someone would be affected by certain trauma. Everybody grief differently and those kinds of things affect people differently. As you mentioned Katara became the person she is BECAUSE of what happened to her mother, her tribe, her culture. (No one mentions that it wasn't just Aang that lost his culture, it was Katara too. Fire Nation hunted every waterbender in the South Pole, if they could they were going to sweep all the North Pole too.) So yes, her mother died to protect her, the last waterbender in the South. And that made Katara who she is. It's understandable that she wanted revenge even for just a moment. Not everyone is a twelve-year-old monk after all.
I don't like Kataang because of that too, Aang wants to see Katara like an angel. When she "lashes out" he starts to act like she can't be angry, revengeful, traumatized, and basically just a human with feelings.
I dont understand why Katara needs further justification than "emotional overload". Every character has had it at some point and this was just her turn. She had feelings that she didn't know how to deal with but had to try. I always felt like that's more than enough of an explanation for her behavior in the southern raiders. People do stupid shit when they're mad.
as someone who has watched ATLA when it was airing on TV i honestly had no idea so many people hated Katara in southern Raides episode (probably because i neve engaged with the fandom discourse of Avatar) for me personally i adore this episode (besides the obvious Zutara) because it was the first time Katara was shown as a complex character, during the entire series she was always the "motherly" and "forgiving" one but southern raides showed that thats not always the case, she wants justice , she wants to face the source of her trauma, she is furious, she is repulsive and she finally has her closer, also its one of the few times where the episode is about HER wants and needs but this time its far more personal than the previous ones, which i cannot emphasize how important it is, honestly what better character writing do you want?
I love Katara. Did I love her lashing out? No, but I understand why she did. Almost everyone in the Gaang lashed out at some point, yet it's unfortunate that there are so many fans who love to nitpick Katara's anger and belittle her grief. She's complex and multifaceted, and I love her-flaws and all-like I love all the other characters. Also, total facepalm at those takes you showed by some fans. I mean..."Zuko made her bring darkness into her heart while Aang only ever brought out her lightness." ... *COUGH* Lmao I don't even know what to say...just *facepalm*
Was the way she acted that one episode the most appropriate? Not really per say. But was the way she acted understandable or realistic in the context of that particular episode? Yes definitely.
@@garynaccarato4606 Agreed. I've always liked that the episode allows Katara to feel her pain fully, as well as highlights her duality and depth as a character.
My favorite is 24:10 - _"If it were up to Zuko, Katara would have become a murderer and embraced bloodbending, all so she would accept him _*_(or even more fucked up, to get in her pants)."_* Imagine missing the character arc for BOTH of those characters _SO_ hard.
@Maimuna Yusuf There are many reasons why I love Zutara, but to keep it short I've always loved how it never felt one-sided. A good relationship is about give and take, and we can see that between Zuko and Katara. They are opposites, but they are not _complete_ opposites, and they comfort and open up to each other in ways we don't see them do with other characters. All the symbolism (red and blue, sun and moon, yin and yang, etc.) adds to my love for them, but as a bonus and not my core reason. Simply, they balance each other. As for Kataang and Maiko, I'm neutral. I don't hate them, but I don't like them either. The way they were written makes me believe Zuko and Katara would have been more complementary than what we got in the end.
Something that I’ve noticed rewatching the show katara’s outburst she does have in the show are either played for laughs and or not taken seriously by the group particularly aang and sokka. The only time her grief and tears are only taken serious just happened to happen with zuko. And they wonder why I ship it. 😢
I'm telling u, i get so mad when i see those memes and comments..just nobody ever berates aang for shouting at toph and katara in the beach episode, but when it comes to katara, people are like: woah what a bitch!! And TSR was the only episode where katara actually got to address her trauma and people shame her for it. Like, give the girl a break everyone would be dead without her. Its worth noting that zuko is the ONLY character who actually cares abt her feelings and trauma for the first time and people shame him too. There's also a strong parallel between zuko's confrontation of ozai ( the source of his trauma concerning his mother) and katara's trauma of yon rha. One would think that people would realize that zuko just wanted katara to get closure bcz it worked for him and he understands katara's trauma and how much they have in common back in the catacombs. NO ONE EVER bashes zuko for wanting to confront ozai but when katara wants to confront yon rha, the fandom gives her a hard time. And it was Aang who actually first thought that katara wanted to kill yon rha ( the fact that her canon love interest immediately thinks she wants to kill makes me so sad). In the end, both zuko and katara healed from their trauma because they got the chance to confront their abusers. Also, just like u said, aang's grief is different from katara's. Aang really can't do anything for his trauma bcz all those firebenders are dead and gone. In katara's case, she knows that this man is alive and this is someone she can actually recognize from their eyes. I feel like thats much more... personal( like ozai's relationship with zuko) From her perspective, who knows how many more people he kills everyday. And the survivor's guilt that kya died for her, just like zuko with ursa. If u ask me, katara was the only person in TSR who was completely in character, all the others had ooc moments. And i really wish the fandom would appreciate katara a bit more. I loved this video, thank u so much for posting it.
The fact that Aang compares Katara to Jet (someone who she hates bc he wanted to harm innocent people) and Sokka doesn’t even defend her but instead tells her that “I think Aang may be right” is just devastating. Katara probably felt like no one had her back and so that’s why she snapped and said “then you didn’t love her the day I did.” I think being accused of wanting to hurt an “innocent man” by your best friend and your own brother has to sting a lot. Plus said best friend automatically assuming that you wanted revenge and wanted to kill the man must’ve made her feel so (justifiably) angry. Of course when you are accused of that and being treated like that, you’re gonna lash out. I don’t get why the fandom misunderstand Katara’s choice and words
Katara stepped in and helped Sokka get through Kya's death and Aang doesn't necessarily feel the same way Aang does because it's not like Aang knew every single Air Nomad personally. But no one stepped in to help her with her grief. There's a song I like that says "Sometimes you don't say goodbye once. You say goodbye over and over again." Which I guess Katara did every time she touched her mother's necklace.
@@IroncabbitWell true lmao. I see people defending Zuko for harming Iroh, Defending Aang for harming the sandbenders, but Katara? She gets shit thrown at her. And your comment is the reason why, their expectations of katara being the perfect girl were shattered (similar to how they were shattered for aang)
The negatives of being the empath is that if someone truly does something unforgiveable in the empath's eyes, it is extremely difficult to forgive them. I think Katara took an incredible first step by not killing him. I don't see it as unreasonable that she isn't ready at that point in time to let go of that hate. Grief is different for each person and can take a LOOOOONG time to heal.
CW: for mild discussion of PTSD Had a discussion with a psychiatrist some years back about PTSD and how, often, it ties back to a single moment. Not to say that Aang loosing his people and culture wasn't 'traumatic', it certainly was. Same with Sokka's loss of his mother. But they don't have the same kind of PTSD that Katara has. That moment that is seared into your brain. The one you even glance at and the panic attack sets in. Katara's outburst is, to me, very realistic. When you face that particular kind of trauma, even expressions of empathy (and as pointed out, Aang's empathy in that moment came with qualifiers) can feel like an attack. It really shouldn't be surprising that she lashed out. (And yeah, just looking at the sheer number of times that Aang lashed out at her specifically with zero repercussions. Internalized misogyny is a Thing.) Furthermore, I'm actually proud of Katara for being able to talk openly about her trauma, even in the guarded way she does in the first 2 seasons, never going into detail. Getting past the first telling is tough and without the practice that she has had, turning it into a tool to aid her empathy, I'm not sure she would have been able to identify it as a source for her anger at Zuko. That repeated telling that so many people find annoying? That can be necessary for dealing with PTSD. Now, I'm not a psychiatrist and I can't actually diagnose Katara as having PTSD specifically (or at least it would be irresponsible of me to do so), but given what we know, that sounds like what she's got. Okay, that's all I have the spoons for.
I have always think abt a headcanon where Sokka, Hakoda and Katara are at Kaya’s funerals. Hakoda is making prayers to the spirits, on his knees in front of Kaya’s grave and saying last words to his deceased wife. Sokka is crying so hard, rage and pain in his eyes. Then Katara keep a straight face, don’t let one tears drop fall of her eyes (she had cried enough), trying to be strong, to prepare to had the shoulders wide enough to take care, support/be the pillar of her family, of her tribe like the rebels water tribe fighter she will be. But completely abandoned her child mentality and childhood and act like a mother she isn’t bc of this war.
FOR THE LIFE OF ME I dont understand how much these people hate or dislike Katara same goes for Korra... the underlying misogyny is often go unnoticed or ignored. I love your analysis. This vide was recommended by a person from a page dedicated for ATLA and LOK... subscribing and hitting that bell
I’ve always quietly agreed with Katara’s “then maybe you didn’t love her the way I did!” outburst but I was never able to properly explain why or put my reasoning into words. But you did it brilliantly. 👍
Another banger highlighting the hypocrisy and misogyny in ATLA looking back at it in 2021. This video is everything I've ever wanted from this analysis, thanks and keep it up!
@Sunday Girl Oh lord, reminds me of the time I argued with a guy on IG who said "Katara could handle Sokka and Toph but Aang was fine." He kept trying to double-down that Aang was gonna survive in the desert without Katara thanks to his glider because he wasn't physically in danger(ie high like Sokka or truly blind like Toph)because mental and emotional pain is minor compared to physical when I've said three times Aang's mindset would've caused him to collapse from exhaustion due to pushing himself to search for Appa with no food, no water, and no rest whatsoever.
I absolutely love this video and found everything so accurate and well spoken. I just wish you had added a little section on Zuko’s influence and how their pain actually is quite similar. Aang’s and Sokka’s grief didn’t have lasting and consistent changes to their way of life. With Aang the knowledge is too recent for that, and with Sokka Katara filled the role of his lost mother. So while they still felt loss they didn’t have to change from it. There is also the point of emotional fatigue that comes with housework and keeping charge of a household. Studies have shown that the role of motherhood and household duties usually thrust upon women in our society has the same or even more stress and exhaustion related to it that a job does. But it is also fairly thankless as shown in the show. There are also studies about childhood trauma centered around children forced into a parental role early on. Katara and Zuko have similar trauma because they both lost their parental figure in their life. They struggled and pushed through and even though Zuko had Iroh, before that his mother was gone and his father was absent his entire life. To clarify by absent I mean not involved unless it’s to negatively impact Zuko’s life and wellbeing. On this point, that is exactly why Zuko understood what Katara needed. It’s the fact they have similar pain. He knows it won’t just go away without facing it because he himself has done the same. In that sense Zuko became to Katara what Iroh was for him. A guild leading her to recovery. What Katara has been for the group all along. Zuko knew Katara wouldn’t go through with it. You can see it in the way he stands back the entire time. Watching things play out. He also knew that healing is important for someone’s wellbeing. Katara didn’t have the chance to heal before because no one was willing to see her side before. The group was so determined to keep Katara how she was, the person who helped them, that they weren’t willing or able to see what she really needed to heal. To end this I don’t think what Katara said to Sokka was ok but I also don’t agree with Aang and Sokka ganging up on Katara. They weren’t listening to her just pushing her away. People pushed into a corner lash out and if you are going to push them you should be prepared for the backlash.
I pretty much agree with you; I could have talked about zuko but ultimately I didn't feel like it fit the scope and intent of my video. I made my video, as I said, sort of in response to some of the bad takes I'd seen - it seemed to me that people were fairly willing to mock Katara for feeling alone or unheard or not understood by Aang and Sokka. I'd seen a lot of comments that were critical of Katara for suggesting that their grief could not allow them to relate to her, or was somehow "not as bad" as hers, and I basically made my video to tackle the idea "okay, instead of just laughing at her or getting mad at her, could Katara actually have a point?" So I did talk about Aang and Sokka, but I wanted to talk about them specifically in the context of exploring those arguments. I also wanted to tie in the overall idea that this was Katara's journey, and the arguments about the role that the male characters play in that journey can sometimes detract from that. That's why I purposely chose not to really talk about Zuko here. There's shippable stuff in this episode, sure, and I don't necessarily want to imply we shouldn't ever explore that angle, but I really wanted to try to keep the focus on "was Katara justified" in this video. (Unrelated, but honestly, most of the shippy arguments I feel strongly about wrt Zutara or Kataang in this ep are more like rebuttals/counterarguments anyway, than arguments in and of themselves - it's usually me rejecting the idea that Zuko is toxic for her, or that Aang is the angel on her shoulder. I might explore TSR again at some point from a more shippy perspective, or even just one that explores Zuko's role in more depth, I just didn't want this video to be that.)
The sad part of this episode is that I have met people who condemn her on both sides: for not forgiving her mother's killer and calling her heartless, and saying she was dumb and naïve for not killing him. So, there's no winning for Katara here, because of the way her character is written, people never really think of her outside of her role as the caretaker, and that episode specifically breaks that mold.
They see Katara as a character or love interest to aang, not as her own person. Which is why they all get so shattered when she doesn't mold into the caretaker or babysitter aang wants.
Katara is the pillar of this team . you can argue that without her , Aang would not have learned the four elements and defeat the fire lord . people keep forgetting , that after her mother death . she took the responsibility of Sokka and the village . Sokka is older than her btw . so having such burden with sadness of loss on her back . she hardly can be selfish because the circumstance demanded her to be strong for her brother , for herself . Katara saying "you all don't know how much I've suffered after mother's death" is realistic reaction imo and not out of character. it actually will be worse if she never express that , she do know other member in Avatar group did suffer the same as that . but keep in mind . when everyone were at their lowest . she was there to hold things together . so to finally have chance to avenge her mother , the same person who took her chance for normal childhood from her and from Sokka . she of course will be selfish and will want to do it . hack in the whole show she never showed any amount of selfishness (yes she not perfect and did get mad and stuff) but come on , the writers did show how much pain she and her brother endures because of that loss . is it not fair that she will act upon that instinct and want revenge . until that point in the show . no one saw the fire people and how their civilians lives . the past 3 season the fire nation were just shown as those evil bloodthirsty conquering force . the fact Katara wanted to kill the man who killed her mother then she spare his life but also still hold a grudge against him . not only beautifully display that humanity resolve but also shown that even the enemy have human side . she doing the right things against the fact that she have the right to kill a monster in her eye , show how much resolve she got and knowing that being better is not by word or power but also by controlling self at moment of anger . I don't know about you but she deserves more credit than anyone give her .
Tbh, Katara is right; Sokka did not love Kya the way she did. This doesn’t mean that any of them loved her any less or any more, but it’s undeniable that they loved Kya in different ways. Even the show portrays it this way. Despite being Kya’s first child, Sokka appears to be closer to his dad than his mom. Katara too also seems to be closer to her mom than her dad (before she got killed ofc). This is normal since sons/daughters typically have a stronger bond with their father/mother. Considering how Kya was most likely the one who taught Katara how to sow, cook, clean, help give birth, be a nurturer, it’s obvious that when Kya died all these aspects were no longer present and Katara had to be the one to uphold them. Because of this, Sokka still had a maternal figure that he could lean on for comfort. He got to grief and was allowed to fully comprehend Kya’s death. The way he loved Kya is the same way he loved Katara while the why Katara loved Kya is how a child loves their mother. The way they loved Kya was different and it’s very apparent because when the show frames it this way. I just wish people could understand that instead of taking it as a Katara telling Sokka that he didn’t love Kya as much as she did.
It also doesn't help his case of siding with Aang when he tells Toph with Katara listening that he doesn't remember what his mom looks like and has Katara as the picture of her.
Literally. People tend to misquote the scene and assume that Katara said that Sokka didnt love their mother AS MUCH as her, even though she said he didnt love him THE WAY she did.
I related to katara so much when she told aang I will never forgive him. Because of my birth parents and what happen after that in my childhood I will never forgive them. And in tv and church they always teach that forgiveness is the way to heal but I always disagreed. I have moved on and put it behind me but I will never forgive it or forget what happen. So when katara said that I completely understood. You did so good in part 1 I teared up when you showed katara in the water. I never noticed her tears. I will never be able to see that scene again without tearing up with katara.
So unfair how hated Katara is for having a moment of humanity, but the same people also poke fun at her for being a walking inspiration poster (I mean, that was the running joke of the Ember Island Players episode). Also, my mom and I were incredibly close and I've struggled more with losing her than other members of my family. That's not to discount their grief and missing her, but they've just moved on in ways I've never been able to do. All that to say I actually understand Katara saying Sokka didn't love their mom the way she did (and in fact, Sokka admitted as much to Toph when he said the word mom brings up an image of Katara more than Kya).
the idea that "if it were up to zuko, katara would have become a murderer" is so patently offensive not only to katara's agency but also to zuko's entire character. when has zuko EVER murdered ANYONE? time and time again we are shown zuko deliberately choosing NOT to take lives, even when he is culturally allowed or even encouraged to do so (his agni kai with zhao, the battle strategy in the war room). i swear these aang sycophants have singlehandedly ruined the fandom for me.
I can't help but wonder if people at the time actually gave a shit about Katara, or if they just used her as a surrogate for the affection they wanted to give other characters, like our Cinnamon Roll Aang. I think that also speaks to the shipping discourse, ppl didn't like Zutara bc they didn't like Zuko. And then used serious topics to cover it up as being about morals instead.
Yup. Same people who would most definitely do WORSE in her position start get annoying and preachy. Blabbing about forgiveness, ‘revenge is not the answer🤪’ blah blah blah.
The Southern Raiders has always been my favourite episode, and a lot of what you bring up in this video factors into that. Katara has always been the character I could most easily identify with, as I grew up feeling responsible for other kids and managing the emotional outbursts of a parent with BPD. I loved seeing her being able to finally express her grief and her anger, and I also loved the message that you don’t always have to forgive the person who hurt you. Sometimes you can move past the hurt without having to forgive, and that’s so freeing. A lot of that is a semantics thing, but at the age I was when ATLA aired “forgiveness” tended to boil down to “I guess it was okay that you did X thing to me, I am no longer mad”. I know now that’s not what it is, but forgiveness carried that meaning for me when I was young because I often felt I had to say those words to make sure that people stopped hurting me (either by being cold or pretending I didn’t exist) out of spite because I hadn’t forgiven them yet. And then once I said those magic words, they acted like they hadn’t wronged me in the first place and would often go back to doing similar things that caused pain in the first place. Seeing a character so close to my heart reject the premise was so powerful to young me. It’s awful how much people hated her for basically setting a boundary. She understands that forgiveness is important, and she does forgive people, but Yon Rah is someone she can never forgive and that’s fine. Also, the fantastic chemistry that Zuko and Katara have in the episode was great. I’m so glad that someone was on her side, and it’s fitting that it’s Zuko.
This video is so important to me. Katara has always been my all time favorite character in pretty much any piece of media, and this video made me basically sob. It was somewhat validating in a way, to hear someone else articulate everything me and my friends have been saying abt Katara for years perfectly, and to see the people in the comments agreeing and understanding- it was just too much. I love your videos sm, please never stop unpacking misunderstood characters and complex ships that are more than what they seem
I never understood why people hated and made fun of Katara in this episode, because this is where I liked her the most. Tbh I found her constant "mom behavior" quite irritating all throughout the show, even when it was portrayed as a good thing. Her lashing out for once was a great change of pace. It showed me that Katara was truly a multi-dimensional character, and not just some one-note throwaway deuteragonist.
THANK YOU FOR THIS VIDEO. it's always frustrated me how frequently people belittle katana's grief and trauma. she gets so much criticism and i've never understood why! katara's always carrying out so much emotional labor for the group and taking up this motherly role, and although her strength is undoubtedly part of what makes her so admirable, it isn't fair how many burdens she's had to bear for others on her own, especially at her age; so of course it's understandable that she'd lash out once in a while! it also just sucks that so many people seem to fail to appreciate her empathy and all that she does for others. if i'm being honest it's hard to ignore the gendered (misogynistic) undertones of the way people often treat katara as a character. women and girl characters should be allowed to be flawed, make mistakes and express their rage without being so vilified for it :/
People can dislike her as much as they want I don't really care,it os just a matter of taste...My problem with all the hate is that they never care about the context... You can hate her for saying stuff in anger but pretending that she thinks her trauma is the only thing that matters when she is the constantly helping everyone heal is wrong
I know this video is about Katara, but I can't help but ask: How come every single time a female character is allowed to reveal the true weight of their emotional trauma, or have the audacity to make mistakes (Glimmer in season 4 of She-Ra) or even so much as be honest with how they are feeling and how they've been treated (Amber in Invincible), the fanbase turns on them like a pack of rabbid wolfbats? And then on the other side if your character is too reserved and all the emotions are under the surface, they're called boring (Captain Marvel) or if they're too perfect they get called a "Mary Sue" (Rey). And heaven forbid if a female character is overweight or look in any way that makes them not conventionally good looking (Abby in TLoU2). Like seriously, the flaming hoops female characters have to leap over is ridiculous. Fanbases suck.
YES AND YES! There’s an unfair and unbelievable amount of subtle misogyny in fandoms. It’s quite disheartening and why I avoid getting too involved in fandoms.
No Amber from invincible was in the right until she said she knew he was invincible because at minimum she is a manipulator and at worse she is emotionally abusive.
@@lvlHive Yeah, and if you figured out a secret about your significant other that they were purposely keeping from you, a secret that apparently two of his buddies get to be in on when you aren't, I suppose your initial reaction is going to be, "eh, whatever it's cool." Call her manipulative all you want, Eve was right. It WAS ideotic of Marc to continue to string her along, give her the most ill-though out bullshit excuses, and just expect to be too stupid to fall for it.
@@roger_towny_jr She knew longer than his best friend and gave mark shit about running away when 1 he was fighting the robot and 2 if he was a normal human what did she want him to do run in and die? also he watched all his friends almost die and was almost killed by the second strongest thing in the universe but was more worried that he missed Amber's thing and also Amber also gave him shit for it? Im not saying Mark is the best or even a good boyfriend im saying that Amber is also terrible.
@@lvlHive She was never angry at him for continuously leaving her or not showing up for her things. She was angry because she knew what he was doing, yet he continued to lie to her and give her the lamest of excuses. At best its demeaning cause it implies he doesn't trust her. At worst, it's downright insulting. You expect her to to just be cool with that? He's literally treating her like a lesser being [just like his father taught him] and he doesn't even realize it. You people expect her as a normal human to just instantly be able to empathize with everything a superhero is going through, even when she has no actual context for what it all entails. They show this really early on in the season with Red Rush and his Girlfriend, how there is so much that normal people just can't comprehend with that lifestyle, and they were both much more mature adults who were actually communicating, which Mark and Amber clearly were not. You mentioned that Mark was also a terrible boyfriend, yet if they're both terrible, how come Mark gets none of the flack for his own poor decision making. Everyone just claims he did nothing wrong. If the excuse is because he's a 17 year old boy whose gonna make mistakes, well where does that sound familiar...? Oh yeah! Wasn't it Eve's misogynistic father the one who famously said, "All Guys Make Mistakes," implying that it's okay for guys to make mistakes, but not for women, which is exactly what the fanbase has decided I regards to Amber?
Katara's anger and resentment is completely justified. Sokka was largely able to heal because Katara filled that motherly role. She would feel resentment that he was able to 'forget' and heal so easily. While, Aang surviving a genocide is the more tragic event. How well did he know everyone at that temple? Sure, he grew up with those kids but how much time did Aang spend with them all individually (it would be impossible, obliviously). But, the Air nomads were the first nation to be wiped out. The Earth Kingdom and Water tribe were still fighting a century later. While you could also say that Monk Gyatso was the closest thing to a father figure Aang had, he was still just a mentor. Katara is again able to open up to Zuko; as they had already done earlier in Ba Sing Se. Again, as you point out; Katara's feelings are always set aside for everyone else's. When she is finally able to express herself more, its going to come out as anger, resentment, jealousy etc. Zuko doesn't push Katara to do anything! All he provides is support. He knows how to get Katara from point A to B. What she does when she gets there is up to her! Not Zuko, not Aang, not Sokka. While revenge or vengeance isn't always the best or healthiest answer. It can still serve a purpose. We can't always forgive. Look at Snape from HP, he is a cruel, abusive and awful person. That is largely due to how he was raised and his developing years being constantly bullied by others. Obviously, it's not okay for him to treat children that way; because of the power imbalance. With it also being the 'sins of the father' trope, regarding his relationships with Neville and Harry. Great video! While I'm personally more a fan of friendships in media than relationships (they can be just as rewarding and often more so). #Zutara
I think this episode is important for her central character. This show makes it a point to show the gray area of characters and doesn’t insult the audience that bad is bad and good is good. They are all very flawed characters of children in war. Although we know that Katara is a very kind and compassionate person, she has scars that have not been healed and we see each potential outcome and there are very deliberate episodes that focus on her like: Imprisoned - Haru - someone rising above the fear and helplessness from generational oppression to find the strength to fight back and build community Jet - Jet - Victim of war finds the will to fight back but enters the “there must be sacrifices made” and justifying morally wrong actions to fight back as a freedom fighter Puppter Master - Although we know that blood bending is not inherently wrong, the victim becomes the perpetrator by hurting innocent people And we see that in order to talk to Jet, she has to step into the dark as he’s standing in a shaded area. Those with trauma have to deal with their trauma in order not to give into darker impulses and we see the full spectrum from Haru to Jet to Hama. One person who doesn’t acknowledge her scars that manifest through anger is Aang. He sees her through the flower filter and invalidates her anger by saying things like “she doesn’t mean it”, “she’s not blaming you”. Like she is not allowed to feel the whole range of human emotions and this sentiment doesn’t change throughout the show. Katara is a great character because she is flawed and part of her character arc is channeling and processing her anger and grief. And despite Katara embracing Aang's hurt and anger by offering hugs and words of comfort she doesn’t receive the same and is meant to self sooth. The Souther Raiders is the journey that allows Katara to fully heal and grow as a person instead of letting the wound fester nor magically say she got better because we know this is central to her character. People with trauma all confront it different like deciding to avoid it, or visiting the place an event occurred, or seeing the perpetrator in trial, or confronting the childhood bully face to face. This is her character having the agency to make her own decisions whether they are right or wrong. And we know that inherently Katara is a good person but this is a journey she needs to take instead of platitudes and we see she overcomes it by facing it not ignoring it. The person to actually help her heal from her trauma is Zuko, someone who initially used his anger to fuel his fire bending but someone who also made that emotional journey by himself. And although Iroh was the one to always morally guide him it was Zuko who had to be on his own to make his own decisions whether they were right or wrong to get to where he was and grow individually despite it being a more painful process than just listening to the words of his uncle. Someone who was the face of the enemy to Katara, helps her face her greatest demon and trauma and he sees her at her worst and doesn't invalidate her. Then through this, Katara is able to heal her own wounds and then see Zuko, not as a one dimensional villain but someone who has changed. And Katara’s forgiveness is meaningful to Zuko and gives him the strength to face his greatest regret by abandoning Iroh. The amount of character development is amazing but yeah I guess she's just suPer Sad AbOut her mom dying and is annoying lol. I love that the cartoon doesn't just have her forgive the guy.
I relate to Katara too much. My mom took her own life when I was 4 and she was 4, mainly because I have murderous thoughts because I never got to see my mother but I loved her. I try my best to tolerate to hold my anger and feelings. I always help my friends with their emotions and nobody helps with mine. My pain and burdens are help on my back and nobody helps, they just watch.
Southern Raiders is one of my friend and I's favorite episodes. It starts off with Katara being untrusting of Zuko and never reacting positively to anything he says, to a gentle hug at the end of the episode. And I don't only like this episode because I'm a Zutarian, I also like it because after two seasons of Katara talking about her mother and having emotions and trauma that are never worked through properly. Zuko, a person who struggles with controlling his emotions and has a lot of trauma, saw that Katara needed to work through her emotions and her trauma properly. He was the only one to support the idea of her getting revenge because he knew that it was the only thing that would bring her peace. He cares about her. But Katara just couldn't bring herself to kill the man who she has been so angry at for all these years, and after they go back to the Western Air Temple she is wondering if what she did was the right thing. I've read a book about fear in horseback riders, and even though it isn't fear, the book mentions that raising and then lowering your emotions is a good way to release them, which is what you see done with Katara. She gets so angry and emotional, so close to killing the man when she realizes she cannot bring herself to kill him, and her emotions are lowered again, causing a release. And even though she is doubting if her decisions were right, she's worked through her emotions and trauma in a healthy way and after Southern Raiders, she isn't always talking about her mother and her mental health is a lot better. :)
I’ve always loved and related to characters like Katara, you know the female characters who always get so much hate and are called annoying and bossy and naggy etc and it’s always fun to remember that if I were a fictional character in a story, men would just hate my guts 😀👍 I’d always heard the jokes about Katara and how much she goes on about her mum and her crying and such all the time but when I actually watched the show I was like…??????? And I feel that happens a lot with characters like her - I’ll see somebody make a statement about them and I just think huh? Did we watch the same show/play the same game/read the same book? How did you manage to interpret her to such an extreme? I must wonder how these female characters would be received if they were men but I can’t think of any male characters that fit the part really? Maybe because being motherly in some way is often such an intrinsic part of the character type…. Enough rambling though - great video! :D
24:04 "Zuko brought out this rage in her and encouraged her to go on a bloodbath spree. [sic]" Setting aside everything else that's wrong with that sentence, the premeditated murder of exactly _one person_ in _one location_ is almost the _exact opposite_ of a killing spree. I think the writer's getting a _teensy_ bit excited there, especially since that singular act of arguably justifiable homicide ultimately never came to pass.
Great that you made this video, i love that you talk about what katara needs and not what aang and sokka want for her. Can you talk about what they did to katara in korra? There are people who believe that "staying and take care of the kids and being a healer" was fine with her, as not all empowered women need to be fighters and blah blah blah. But please! She herself said that she wanted to fight and that she wanted to be part of the end of the war, they didn't even give her a city and not even a statue. I find it super unfair how they reduced her personality and character to "the good mother and wife of the avatar", she never wanted to be a healer. There is nothing wrong with her being a mother and a healer but it was very clear in the series that she did not want that, she even went against the misogyny of her own culture and in the end she ended up accepting them as if nothing had happened? for the sake of aang ?. I do not understand people and do not try to justify that fact. And yes, I think Aang is a bad father xD. And I would also love an analyze of the kataang scenes in the comic. When I saw the comic "love is a battlefield" I was shocked and only confirmed for me that Aang also has issues (According to what I saw, he attacked her directly with rage).
Yea the fandom kind of ruined the show for me (and some of my own friends lol) lets just say Katara and I have a similar story and the things people say about her feel like a personal attack
The next time I see a Katara hate comment, I'm sending them this video. All the slander is so unfair and the jokes about her grief are just so uncalled for...I've labeled The southern raiders as my favorite episode and all the hate is just making me love it even more.
Thank you for your beautifully thought out and poignant review! It really sums up all the thoughts I've had but hadn't quite strung together yet. I think a big difference between Sokka's and Aang's losses was that their void didn't stay empty. Not only did Katara lose her mom (and honestly kinda lost her dad not much later when he went to war), but she had to become her mom. No one really did that for her. She became Sokka's mom (filling the void Kya left) and the Gaang became Aang's family after he lost the Airbenders. Not to say that they didn't feel grief, but they also weren't left empty, so to speak, in the same way she was. Katara was also there in the moment that she lost her mother. I don't remember where Sokka was but he wasn't that close to Kya's murder I believe, and Aang was separated by the loss of his people by decades. It was almost like Katara was the closest to where the bomb went off and didn't have someone to put her back together. She did that herself while holding others up. She also saw the man's face, his eyes, heard his voice, and knew what he did. One person did that, in her mind, even though he was part of the Fire Nation. Aang just had the Fire Nation and maybe specifically Ozai/Sozin to blame but everyone kinda hated them. Katara's righteous anger had one true target.
even though this show is a third person point of view telling of the story it feels as though we are mostly watching this show through Aang's POV. like, most of what we see of Katara is from Aang's view. you know, the angelic, perfect caretaker who is always so kind and patient and understanding. i find it incredibly telling that the one episode centered entirely around Katara, essentially from her POV, is one of the few episodes where Katara *isn't* perfect. she's not very patient, she's not always kind, but she does still understand. Aang seeing Katara in her flawed glory and not liking when she snaps is incredibly telling of how he sees her and how he treats her.
I love this. Your rebuttals were on point and while fandom opinion as a whole is hard to define, you do a good job of pulling together threads of common arguments. I'm a little curious if there is anything you would change about TSR?
Ah, I thought I replied to this comment but I somehow posted the reply to a different comment, so dumb lol -.- Copy-pasting: I suppose that depends on what you're trying to accomplish. There are ways which I think the writing in ATLA, overall, while already excellent, could still have been better; I go into some of those ideas in my big Zutara video. Most of my opinions on how TSR could have been written better to strengthen x or y tie into my vision for ATLA as a whole. I'm going to be making a video at some point on what I think the biggest missed opportunity in ATLA was in terms of storytelling; I'll go into some more depth there. It isn't directly related to TSR but it would have impacted the course of ATLA's final arc, including the writing in TSR (probably). That's as much detail as I'll give for now :)
omg yes so like i just think about how memes at first are funny like katara touching her necklace every time she talks about her mother was an observation i could laugh at... until it wasnt funny anymore. it reaches the point where it just takes away all meaning it ever had and thats kind of a problem i ran into recently in another community (this character's friend got slain by a god so they memed him by saying he just wanted to get crushed by her thighs because hes a cultured simp. like at least to me, that was one of the biggest things to set off the revolution bc the god is a tyrant. it reached the point where ppl were ignoring that was a really important piece in the story) and wow i didnt even notice some of the misogyny in the show. also i do wish there was a hardcover of Dangerous Books for Girls to shut people down violently cause i wouldve very much liked that
Absolutely loved this video as I did the zutara one! I’d personally love for you to explore Alta more the way you interpret it really interests me and I’d really enjoy more ❤️
“Stop doing Katara dirty. We already have enough sequel material that does it already.” 😂 But yeah. The way Katara’s grief and righteous anger are treated is disappointing, but not at all surprising. To be completely honest, the fanbase has issues with misogyny and racism/colorism that sorely need to be addressed. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the fair-skinned, male protagonist, Aang, is given a pass for his awful treatment toward Katara and Toph in The Desert because he was hurting, while, Katara is never allowed to live her words to Sokka down…Even when what she said wasn’t necessarily false and it wasn’t out of the blue. Sokka tried to suggest that, because they shared the same mother and he didn’t feel the need to avenge Kya’s death, Katara should also move past it. So, she rejected that. Katara never said that Sokka didn’t love Kya *as much* as Katara did, just that his love for her and the impact of her loss was simply different, which is true. Just a few episodes prior, she heard Sokka admit that he had trouble remembering their mother’s face and how his maternal love for Kya was able to be reborn into Katara. Unfortunately, she doesn’t have the luxury of repressing that day in the way that he does. Not when the image of her mother’s charred body was probably etched into her memory, and she had to live with the burden of knowing that her existence itself is the legacy of her mother’s sacrifice.
Exactly. Not to mention the reason she saw that was because her mother was protecting her as the last waterbender. Her trauma and pain are just vastly different in comparison to her brother.
Your right but I don't think this has anything to do with racism or colorism. It would make no sense in a show like this. It more has to do with her character that was portrayed and I feel like those people want her to be perfect and not have any flaws so when they see flaws they crap on her. They view her through rose tinted glasses just like Aang does. But when so strays away from the way Aang sees her they get angry.
@@alices8660 I mean, racism/colorism is possible in any series where the characters are from different races and have different skin tones. And it’s not always conscious. Though, I do also agree with your overall point, when Katara steps out of unrealistic mold that Aang/fans have set for her, she gets demonized
Also the fact that kya was wearing the necklace when she died...(this is just a speculation) meaning little Katara probably went in the hut in shock and took off the necklace from her burnt body..
I think your comment about characters getting passes should be aimed at Zuko and Sokka. Those two can do absolutely no wrong in the eyes of the fandom.Fandom. At the very least, I've seen many harsh critiques on Aang's character.
Someone posted a comparison of all the guys reacting to Katara talking about her mother's death and Aang is the only one to not only not say I'm sorry, but immediately make it about himself and his loss. I really try not to read sexism into everything but these takes are just unbelievably twisted. I miss Elisabeth Welch's writing.
@Sunday Girl i think that you didn’t get the right comment ? But anyway, you said that he want to stop her to murder yon rah but did Katara said she would actually kill him ? Revenge isn’t automatically murder. It’s just at the end that Katara said she actually want to kill Yon rah not before when she was confronting Aang. So did Aang perceive her bad ? Anyway, all I know is that he impose his own way to deal with trauma to katara whereas all ppl do NOT deal the same way with it. Aang deal with trauma with forgiveness. Katara deals with trauma with revenge. Of course the monk that he his wouldn’t understand this. But saying that isn’t slandering him o_O ?????
@Sunday Girl but EVEN it’s always Katara who his the emotional support of the group (especially Aang, she’s VERY motherly with him) but she is RARELY support emotionally at return. I can’t remember scene where it’s Aang who put a hand in katara’s shoulders to confort her. Or I can remember a few but maybe I’m wrong, it just didn’t really come in my mind automatically. No lie. And it is not a Aang « slandering » or « a misrepresenting of the situation » to acknowledge that. It’s a fact. The emotional support isn’t equal. Period. But That’s doesn’t make Aang a HATEFUL, BITTER, DIABOLICAL character don’t worry 😂. He’s a child after all. Like all of them tho. Btw sorry for my English I’m not anglophone 🥲
@Sunday Girl Its canon that aang did'nt respond with sympathy while hearing Katara's mother's death while every other love interest of hers did. Like..its a fact. Also, It's actually Aang who thinks that she wants to kill yon rha, not katara. He assumes the worst of her automatically... Katara wanting to face yon rha is no different than her protecting the fire nation village and saving earth kingdom prisoners. I would even say that he was the one who planted this idea on her head. Katara had no concrete plans on what to do with yon rha( that's why she talks to him first) Her main goal was to find him. And zuko understands more than anybody, why? bcz he firsthand knew from experience how much relief it can bring to confront the source of your trauma ie his confrontation with ozai, who was responsible for his mother's disappearance. Like he knew that it worked for him, thats why he suggested that to katara.
katara was completely rational IMO and could’ve handled it worse all things considered she was quite mature abt it. ppl need to stfu and allow victims of trauma to express their emotions 🖤
I can't understand why people compare traumas. "That trauma is worse than this one" if you don't have the tools to comb through and deal with the trauma that's what makes it worse not the "severity" of the trauma itself. I don't think you should compare shit because if it effects you it effects you! No shame in that, just learn to cope and really process everything.
I think people compare Katara's trauma because she literally does the same to Sokka (and she never apologized to him for her words about his relationship to their mother!). I neither love or hate Katara. I just trying to explain people's point of view.
@@Idkidc2173 well it was right after he did it to her first, we can argue two wrongs don’t make a right but with this in mind I think the burden of being patient and supportive and understanding would lie upon Sokka given how right then Katara was the one being open about her trauma and was clearly upset at the time. If anything people should be pissed at Sokka for being so dismissive while having little excuse considering he’s of sound emotional state, but instead people get pissy at Katara just because her words were harsher
Toph was always my favorite character in ATLA (not counting Iroh, everybody's favorite is Iroh) while growing up, but after watching it front to back, and getting to see every episode as an adult, I think this one episode alone turned Katara into my favorite. So many stories in all mediums fail in the "revenge bad" department. Right now this is the only one I can think of where I didn't feel like the main character was dumb for not killing the villain in the end, and the writers were just faking some pretentious moral standing. Southern Raiders understands victims like Katara, and how there is no solution, no answer or action that can be taken to fix what happened. No justice can be done to make things "right" or bring sufficient suffering to him to make things "fair". The episode teases the idea that she has two choices, kill or forgive, and she says no to both. People who don't get it just don't understand, either you get it or you don't.
I want to say that people who hate or mock Katara for The Southern Raiders, aren't very observant and don’t really know how to analyse such meaningful episode and grief like this. Now DON'T get me wrong I'm not trying to be bitter or feels superior, it was haaard for me to understand this too. (It just my personal opinion). Of course what Katara said to Sokka was wrong but don't forget that for katara, this journey was her only chance, Zuko give her a chance to face her trauma. Their mothers Death. Kaya's killer's. But when Sokka was trying to stop her, she lashed out at him (again, it's was wrong, ikr but in the other hand it was realistic and understandable when you think abt that). She had seen the BURNED BODY of her mother at young age without forget that as a kid, she feels guilty of their mother's loss bc Kya died for protect Katara THE LAST WATERBENDER OF THE SWT. So, in this moment, it was impossible for katara to not get revenge and she wouldn’t let anybody stop her to get revenge even her big brother that she love. She lashed out. (Btw dO yoU ReAlly ThiNK that Katara didn'tapologiize off screen to Sokka ???? C'mon guys, that's so Katara! Lol). Sometimes I feel like, they just want to hate katara to hate her. Like ....... No real reason lol, smh. Majority Atla fandom reactions to this amazing episode were really disappointing. Like such a meaningful and important episode for Katara Arc, development and grief dismiss like this????? Oh gosh. Btw thank you for your Excellent video Sneezy. Your analysis was very interesting, absorbing and intelligent ! Our girl KATARA don't deserve hate. Just for that one thing they dare completly forgot how supportive and caring Katara as been for the Gaang in 3 long Season, Bruh. It's incomprehensible and it's a shame GREAT ANALYSIS GIRL !!!!!
Yeh. Everyday you do good to others, talk nicely, feel other's pain, give shoulder to other when they need, show love and respect without showing your own pain..... But....... One day you act roughly, show your pains, then other will tell you how bad you were. Your pain is nothing compare to them and get rid of it. Is it that easy? 😢😢😢 Poor bady Katara. Thanks to Zuko to give her the best life changing field trip ❤️❤️❤️
I didn't like Katara growing up because I most heavily identified with Toph. I saw myself at odds with more feminine women and felt repulsed by Katara because of bad experiences with bullying from more feminine girls. That wasn't fair to Katara though. As I've gotten older and asked myself "what does it mean to be a woman" I've found myself thinking about Katara a lot. She's strong in all the ways a man can be, but she's also strong in the ways men traditionally aren't. She's calm when the stakes are high, patient when someone is unreasonable, nurturing when others are in pain. She's the backbone of the group, holding it up. She is compassionate and fights for those who cannot fight for themselves. She is able to face the man who killed her mother and, bacause she is an empath, realize just how pathetic and undeserving of her compromising her moral fiber for revenge he is. She is the embodiment of femininity I hope to be. Also, going to get on my Zutara horse here: this is why her and Zuko work. Zuko was the only one capable of facing her difficult emotions with grace. He gives her the room to fully be herself. All her empathy and pain mixed together.
I relate to this pretty strongly myself, minus the fact that I didn't necessarily dislike Katara but I definitely identified so much more with Toph that I honestly overlooked Katara quite a bit until probably the final season 😅
The episode where she gets revenge is my favorite. I didn’t understand why everyone hated her. She is so loving and such a good person. And then she shows a flaw and they gang up on her.
1. Dangerous Books for Girls is $6 on Amazon kindle ($10 if you prefer paperback). It was recommended to me by a friend and I can't speak highly enough of it. If anyone has ever tried to shame you for enjoying media that falls under the umbrella of "chick lit", this book will equip you to shut them down non-violently. Sadly, a thick, heavy, hardcover version that would allow you to shut them down _violently_ is not currently an option I could find anywhere (I checked).
Link: www.amazon.com/Dangerous-Books-Girls-Reputation-Explained-ebook/dp/B00VGGW4RO/
2. I am aware that the Doom at Your Service clip (22:00-22:20), out of context, appears to be an odd choice to accompany the words I am saying over it (about female narrative agency being a cornerstone of romance fiction). DAYS fans will get the reference, the rest of you can suffer. I enjoy chaos.
3. Re: 7:40 - I do want to acknowledge that Katara does have a couple of moments where she cries in front of "the gang", e.g. when Aang burns her in the Deserter, or when Hama forces her to bloodbend for the first time. I didn't want to change my script too much to address the exceptions mainly because I didn't want to break the flow, (I think I changed my wording from "always" to "almost always" when Araeph, in her beta-reading suggestions, pointed out the Hama example) but I do think it's probably best to clarify further what I mean, so I'll do that here: I was mainly referring to what I see as a pattern of Katara bottling up or nursing her wounds alone (particularly any pain/suffering over her loss of Kya), that puts her in contrast with the way the other members of the gang usually receive some form of comfort or support or reassurance when _they_ are suffering. (And it's usually Katara providing said comfort).
I did sacrifice nuance and accuracy for brevity and flow, but ultimately it's not true to say Katara *only* cries when she's alone - those exceptions prove otherwise. But, aside from Zuko in Bitter Work (and he wasn't part of "the gang" at that point), Katara *is* the only member of the gang who *does* cry alone, and who *is* shown to (have to) soothe herself when she's hurt. Given her backstory, that from a young age she had to be her family's rock to fill the void of Kya, from a Watsonian perspective I think it's reasonable to conclude that Katara likely hides her pain _because_ she knows how much the gang depends on her (and mainly/only her) for emotional support, and she probably feels a certain sense of obligation or responsibility to continue being their rock and not crumble - because if she doesn't hold them all together, then who will?
(Hope that clarifies things).
I LOVE THE DANGEROUS BOOK FOR GIRLS!!! I actually have two hardcover versions from childhood, it is SO USEFUL!!!!
Well done on this video and all others! You're funny and your analysis is always spot on! Keep it up
My older sister spent her whole life doing everything for everyone. She met and befriended a woman in college with that same selfless nature, this woman would later adopt my sister. She would later die alone with no one but my sister by her side. This selfless woman who like Katara gave everything, every part of herself to everyone around her was left to fend for herself in the end. My sister has since reached a breaking point. She will still help, grudgingly. All the pain she had kept hidden is exploding out a she hit her lowest point in her life. A time she needs support and now once again finds herself in Katara's shoes. It breaks a person and tears them down. This attitude, this personality type is toxic for the person in question. In the end it is the cause if all their pain and suffering. Katara's is the most tragic story of them all in the show. Far more tragic than Aang or Zuko. She suffers the most out of everyone. This one episode is a small glimpse of the emotions boiling beneath the surface. This one episode is truer to her character than any other.
18:47 "Katara is the reason why her brother is far less traumatized by their mother's death that she is" - SO TRUE
That's so sad
So false , I disagree with this video
@@professorsassafras elaborate ?
@@professorsassafras even sokka said that lmao
@@professorsassafras same. For me, i agree that people unfairly latch on to the southern raiders episode to hate on Katara. Even if it would be better for her personally in the long run, she does not owe anyone forgiveness, and is not unduely angry at the raiders.
MY problems with Katara lie elsewhere. Not in that shes poorly written, but that shes a well written, flawed person who needed more growth to be likeable.
She constantly gets on everyones ass about putting personal things aside, not adventuring or gambling or making waves so they can continue on with their mission(s).
Yet, the MILLISECOND she wants to do something--all the way from s1 when she wants to beat THE AVATAR in waterbending and gets them caught by Zuko, all the way in s3 (showing no growth) when she stops everything to be the Painted Lady for ONE village. The WORLD is at stake. Both an example of ego stroking. Shes a hypocrite.
Even though she's a grounding character for Sokka(by process of elimination), shes also a nagger and abuser. She LOVES making him the butt of jokes and tearing him down for silly things. I dont remember her ever congratulating him in a meaningful way in any of his plans, his success in getting their father, or his sword arc. Sh3s a bitch, and she doesnt appreciate Sokka at all, it seems.
F*cking THEN, despite being a "stand in" for a mom because Sokka never had anyone else, she puts her grief above his, screams at him that "he didnt love mom as much as her" (AFTER SHE KNEW Sokka saw her as a surrogate) and NEVER, EVER APOLOGIZED for her spiteful, hateful words. Shes a mega bitch.
Then theres her general busy body-ness i cant stand. Never lets amyone have their own conflicts without putting her big nose where it doesnt belong, then will make a 2 way fight a 3 way if they dont agree with her, and she never changes until her ego is stroked, like the clip of sokka and toph talking. Once stroked, then she changes.
It culminates into her butting in to the Zuko Azula fight--the fight ZUKO HAD 100000% HANDLED, and because Zuko had to protect her and split his focus, it almost cost him his life, and he never got the win he HAD abd DESERVED.
She also plays a long manipulationg game with Aang, constantly catching and berating him when he says things like "i wouldnt kiss you" in the love tunnels, then spurning his desires later on in a "youre unfairly expecting this of me" way instead of an "there are feelings but nows not the time" way, when she has GENUINELY lead him on before (dancing at the fire school, jealosy for his attention, the entire secret tunnel episode etc)
Beyond that there was one mishandling in her writing, mainly that she mastered Water Vendong too well too fast.
So yall, focus your hate to where it belongs. Because Katara does at least get the southern raiders point 😆
Katara is also the only one who was physically present at the time of the traumatic event. Sokka was outside throwing snowballs at Fire Nation guys while his mom was killed, and Aang was submerged in the ocean while the Air Nomads were eradicated. Katara saw the face of the man who killed her mom. The man was there to kill her, the last southern waterbender, and her mom died specifically to protect her. If aang or sokka had been in that situation, you can't tell me that they wouldn't react the same way (or worse!) if they realized they could take revenge. Look how angry and violent sokka got with Azula just for putting Suki in prison. Look how violent got when appa was stolen. In fact, if Katara hadn't been there to calm him down, he most likely would've killed those sandbenders. So their disregard of her rage and pain and desire for retribution seems pretty tone deaf, if not outright callous.
I HATE how they reacted. When Sokka starting lecturing her about not going I felt that same rage she did towards them. They are used to her being the hopeful, compassionate and kind one. Usually when women like Katara lash out, people have MUCH harsher reaction then when someone as routinely belligerent and abusive as Zuko used to be, lashes out.
People like Katara are other people’s safe space. When SHE expresses an emotion as powerful and as scary as pure rage, it scares people. This is what we get for telling women to suppress deeper anger and rage lest we get called crazy.
I think it’s also why so many people in fandom project unusually negative ‘deceptive’ personalities traits onto kind and compassionate presenting characters.
Like “there is no way you are all good, there must be something bad about you’. And when she acts human they go ‘Aha!’
That’s why the fandom fixates so much on her mistakes but forgets or rationalizes the mistakes of the others. They don’t humanize her like they do the others.
Fans: "we want complex, rounded characters with flaws!"
Katara showing a moment of weakness and repressed darkness: h-
Fans: Ew, thanks, I hate it!
So true lmao
right?! i love that so many fans see the southern raiders as a "zutara torpedo," "see zuko brings out the WORST in katara!" when i just see katara being an actual 3-dimensional well-developed character. rather than seeing zuko bringing out the worst in katara, i see zuko VALIDATING katara, giving her what she actually needs, respecting her for who she is warts & all. it's probably the single purest depiction of true love in the entire series.
Same thing with the She-Ra fandom over Glimmer
For me, i agree that people unfairly latch on to the southern raiders episode to hate on Katara. Even if it would be better for her personally in the long run, she does not owe anyone forgiveness, and is not unduely angry at the raiders.
MY problems with Katara lie elsewhere. Not in that shes poorly written, but that shes a well written, flawed person who needed more growth to be likeable.
She constantly gets on everyones ass about putting personal things aside, not adventuring or gambling or making waves so they can continue on with their mission(s).
Yet, the MILLISECOND she wants to do something--all the way from s1 when she wants to beat THE AVATAR in waterbending and gets them caught by Zuko, all the way in s3 (showing no growth) when she stops everything to be the Painted Lady for ONE village. The WORLD is at stake. Both an example of ego stroking. Shes a hypocrite.
Even though she's a grounding character for Sokka(by process of elimination), shes also a nagger and abuser. She LOVES making him the butt of jokes and tearing him down for silly things. I dont remember her ever congratulating him in a meaningful way in any of his plans, his success in getting their father, or his sword arc. Sh3s a bitch, and she doesnt appreciate Sokka at all, it seems.
F*cking THEN, despite being a "stand in" for a mom because Sokka never had anyone else, she puts her grief above his, screams at him that "he didnt love mom as much as her" (AFTER SHE KNEW Sokka saw her as a surrogate) and NEVER, EVER APOLOGIZED for her spiteful, hateful words. Shes a mega bitch.
Then theres her general busy body-ness i cant stand. Never lets amyone have their own conflicts without putting her big nose where it doesnt belong, then will make a 2 way fight a 3 way if they dont agree with her, and she never changes until her ego is stroked, like the clip of sokka and toph talking. Once stroked, then she changes.
It culminates into her butting in to the Zuko Azula fight--the fight ZUKO HAD 100000% HANDLED, and because Zuko had to protect her and split his focus, it almost cost him his life, and he never got the win he HAD abd DESERVED.
She also plays a long manipulationg game with Aang, constantly catching and berating him when he says things like "i wouldnt kiss you" in the love tunnels, then spurning his desires later on in a "youre unfairly expecting this of me" way instead of an "there are feelings but nows not the time" way, when she has GENUINELY lead him on before (dancing at the fire school, jealosy for his attention, the entire secret tunnel episode etc)
Beyond that there was one mishandling in her writing, mainly that she mastered Water Vendong too well too fast.
So yall, focus your hate to where it belongs. Because Katara does at least get the southern raiders point 😆
Its very telling that when male characters like Aang and Zuko lash out and hurt the people they love due to their grief or trauma it’s seen as what it is (them at their lowest, a realistic representation of the way that pain can negatively manifest), but when the female love interest does the exact same thing it’s “wow, she’s such a bitch”. If that was Aang unfairly yelling at his friends (again) they wouldn’t bat an eyelash. And not to mention that Katara is RIGHT
You're so right. I can't understand how people can hate her for this. All of them inmature kids I swear.
This. It sucks how the same people who about Aang in the desert rush to defend him saying "Remeber he's a 12 year old boy who's lost his entire culture and so on" while bashing Katara for being in the same state.
@@BlackMercura some of the memes in the intro were WILD. comparing katara's loss & grief to "toph's parents aren't supportive!" or "appa & momo are" ANIMALS. THEY ARE LITERALLY ANIMALS. not to mention dragging zuko into when zuko was AGREEING with katara the entire time.
Katara saying that she loved their mother more since she remembers her is going way too far though.
@@MargaretS-e1g I totally agree that’s my point though, every character has moments where they go too far. Why is it that Katara in her worst moments gets treated differently than them in theirs? Cause she’s a woman 🤷♀️
For both Sokka and Aang, even though they’ve experienced loss, it’s been expressly or impliedly stated that the love they receive from Katara has helped to ease their pain. As evidence, we have Sokka’s confession to Toph that Katara has basically been a surrogate mother to him. And for Aang, in The Guru episode, Pathik implies that the love that Aang used to get from the Air Nomads has been “reborn” into Katara. In other words, Katara is literally a surrogate for Aang’s entire community…which is a lot to put on the shoulders of one 14-year-old girl. But as for Katara herself? She has no one to replace her mother. She basically had to become her own mom and parent herself.
Exactly. Hell, even the creators said the reason Katara fell for Jet is because she felt like she could finally count on someone to look out for HER.
@@canvas_125 kind of unfair to sokka who tryed to be the one katara could count on but he always fell short
he was always being protective of her and try to be a good big brother to her and aang
@@reynellfreeman8761 Yeah, but he was very immature, especially in the beginning. Their first scene together ends in her breaking down because he doesn't help her with the responsibilities of their life.
@@reynellfreeman8761 he didn’t try very hard💀 did you forget when he was sexist asf? most of his life he was like that until suki slapped him into shape
@@Asami0303 not really if Katara is the mother of the group Sokka is the dad
as the oldest he looks after katara aang and toph despite what they can do
maybe I'm speaking as an older brother myself despite my sister being a nurse I still look after her and try to be there if she needs me that's just what big brothers do
People tend to forget that Katara blames HERSELF for her mother's death, after finding out that her mother wasn't the last waterbender in the southern water tribe.
Honestly that must've been devastating for a little girl.
The problem is that Katara didn't really grow or learn to not put her trauma as a shroud since that does negatively impact her relationships with others since she weaponizes that trauma as a defense from legitimate criticism. Aang by contrast learned to put aside the trauma he experienced as a way to put his duties of being the Avatar first. Katara could learn the same thing by putting her relationships first but the show doesn't delve into that. Instead Katara only learns to forgive those that have nothing to do with her trauma which is good but the show ignored Kataras main problem.
"Katara isn't a demon or an angel"
Nope. She's only human. She's allowed to lash out, she's allowed to be flawed and she's allowed to feel. After all, isn't that what makes us human?
Iroh accompanied zuko throughout his conquest of capturing avatar. He knew zuko's hatred wouldn't solve anything but he just let zuko continued the conquest. Eventually it's zuko himself learned from his mistakes and moved on.
Iroh way on handling zuko is the same tactic zuko used to helped katara in southern raiders. He didn't ask her way of thinking, he didn't challenge her thought process, he just accompanied her. Thus resulting katara's decision herself that concluded the hatred chapter.
Choosing zuko as katara companion in southern raiders was very well thought. I salute the writer for that
😭😭you just gave me more reasons to ship Zutara harder 🤧❤️
Oh, I love this take! I always thought Zuko was trying (and hilariously failing) to channel Iroh with Sokka during the Boiling Rock episode, but he managed to do it so effortlessly here with Katara. Great analysis 👍
@@rftg1793Nah man.
@@svartvarg9778Why not? It's a fictional ship, and you can't convince us that the writers didn't do ship baiting with zutara.
That's a really good point. I noticed (and appreciated) that Zuko lets Katara take the lead and accompanies here mainly as her backup/support. He'll offer an opinion, but never tries to argue her into accepting it. But I hadn't liked it to Iroh taking the same approach with Zuko. Good spot!
Katara being blamed for not forgiving the man who murdered her mother is like assault survivors being told to forgive their attackers. It completely dismisses the pain and trauma inflicted upon the person and places an unfair expectation of forgiving someone who neither deserves or is willing to redeem themselves. Some people have committed such heinous acts, inflicted such unimaginable pain on others that they are beyond forgiveness forever. It's cruel and unfair to tell survivors to "Be the bigger person" and negate the trauma that they may and will likely still be dealing with for the rest of their lives.
That's not what people were mad at katara for. People hated katara this episode because of what she said to sokka. That he didn't love his mother enough. They both missed her and sure sokka can't remember her face but the things she did for him growing up are in his heart. Katara stepped on that and never apologized for being so callous. Her feelings about her mother are so strong because her mother literally died for her. Not one of those jump infront of an incoming atk because they are my kid thing but lie about something and take responsibility for it things. Katara knew that. That's why she was so much more special to her. Sokka who wanted to be like his dad didn't love his mom any less then katara.
On a real point though I'd like to know who betrayed katara in the first place. That person deserves death the most. Almost as much for the being who killed her mother. Look at the situation. The fire nation had been going to the village for years and took all the waterbenders. They stopped when grangran friend was captured. That means someone saw a smol katara bend then snitched on a 4 year old. Did you see her cute face. Look at their family sokka and katara both were adorable little kids and someone snitched on em. Granted they didn't tell them who she was but they did tell them that the village had a waterbender.
@@Ando1428 Except that's not what Katara said. She said 'then you didn't love her like I did' which, a) is objectively true (people keep saying 'she's Sokka's mother too' as if Sokka hadn't admitted a few episodes earlier that he couldn't even remember his mother's face because Katara was always there, filling that hole in his life in a way she didn't have anyone to do for her), and b) is NOT the same thing as claiming that he didn't love her enough or even as much as she did. They loved her in very different ways, they missed her and GRIEVED for her in very different ways, and Sokka was being dismissive of Katara's pain when he sided with Aang, who had just compared her to someone who'd wanted to commit actual mass murder of innocent civilians.
Maybe Katara should have apologized to Sokka for lashing out at him, but Sokka should have apologized to Katara for dismissing her pain and siding with someone who compared her to someone willing to murder innocent people to achieve his ends, when all she wanted was the chance for CLOSURE. (Something that, as she proved later in the episode, didn't require murder at all.) Sokka's words were just as harmful as Katara's were, but no one who blames Katara in this episode seems to want to acknowledge that, and it's infuriating.
She was going to kill that man if Aang didn't remind her not to.
Are you saying that killing that man would bring her happiness?!
No, Sure her mother wouldn't want her daughter to kill at all.
@@Whocares158
But like when¿
Aang’s comments didn’t help her, confronting the man who killed her mother and getting closure is the thing that helped her finally begin to heal.
Y’all like to praise Aang when all he did was trying to sanitize Katara’s feelings.
@@Whocares158 No, katara got to heal bcz she got to go on that journey( which zuko enabled for her) If she thought Aang did help her then why is she disagreeing with him in the end? Bcz i clearly remember katara saying,
Katara : I didn''t forgive him, I'll never forgive him.
If she really thought Aang's words had any merit then she wouldn't have been upset with him in the end. Katara let yon rha go bcz she's not that kind of person, not bcz of anything aang said.
ngl, I really enjoyed seeing Katara "lash out". She felt a bit more free in this episode, a little less airbrushed, a little less smooth.
A characters highs should correlate to their lows. It always felt a bit weird only seeing "perfect", kind, nurturing Katara on screen without dvelving into what it takes her to be that way.
I read this tweet like a while ago that said "Why do people hate characters that react to trauma realistically". First thing I thought of was Katara. She literally witnessed her mother's death and was actually present for the waterbender's genocide.
Katara shares her trauma and pain over losing Kya with Jet, Haru, and Zuko, all possible love interests for her imo, unlike previous two, Zuko offers her a closure, and a chance of vengeance, and Katara takes that chance to face Yon Rha. She is 100% justified in her anger and the final decision she made against Yon Rha is hers and hers alone.
I can’t be the only one who thinks Katara looked so exhausted by the end of The Desert, and I’m a little surprised by how little this is brought up
I don’t think I’ve really seen it mentioned but it’s likely that Katara also feels a lot of guilt from her mother’s death, as she died specifically to protect her. So, she not only had to fill the role of mother, she also had to cope with (by herself because no one seemed to see fit to comfort her at all until Zuko) the fact that she had to step into that role because of her mother wanting to save her, and the sort of self-loathing that might breed in someone who might feel resentful that they have been forced into a role they weren’t ready for.
this is perfect. i love how "you sound like jet" fits under "how to hurt a girl in 5 syllables or less" lmao i'm cackling. i'd also like to point out that even the writers of the show themselves understood that katara's trauma over the loss of her mother is a big part of who she is as a character and not just a plot device, and this is evident in their careful word choice for That Line that everyone rages over: katara says "then you didn't love her *the way* i did" not "then you didn't love her *as much* as i did" and there's a world of difference between the two sentences. and honestly... it's true. even sokka himself admits that he can no longer remember kya's face. even their recollections of the day their mother died are different. katara being more profoundly affected by her mother's death is just like how sokka is closer to and shown as more eager to impress their father than katara is. sure, sokka deserves an apology for the harsh line, but katara dOES NOT deserve the slander.
thank you for this i've watched all your videos now and i'm not pressuring you to make more atla content but *please make more atla content* i'll take anything at this point. even an analysis on cabbage merchant.
You subtly touched on a number of reasons why Zutarians like Zutara. Kataang seems to be more about Aang than about both of them and Katara treats Aang more like a caretaker than a lover/partner (a common rebuttal to this is that Katara treats everyone like that but I like that Zuko is the one person in the group that she doesn’t have to parent or coddle) and she always has to prioritize his wants/needs/feelings over her own and Aang doesn’t accept it when she doesn’t act like the perfect angel he sees her as. A lot of anti-Zutarians think that because Aang is the more stereotypical “nice guy”, he’d treat Katara better than Zuko and say that Zutara is toxic and they’d argue all the time (this is especially ironic if said by a Maiko shipper. At least when Zutara argue it’s sexy, just saying).
Zuko has a very conflicted personality, which is why people are calling Zuko/Katara toxic. If there was a season 4 and we got to see more of Zuko being his new self and treating everyone nicely, I think it would be easier to say that he is better for Katara than Aang. Katara and Zuko are definitely hot, but we get to see Zuko being good for a very short period of time
@@alext-rex5492Maybe, but I'm still not a zutarian.
@@alext-rex5492I must say I don’t really agree with what you’re saying because Zuko’s character arc is clear and we see it from the beginning to the end. When you watch the last season of Avatar I’m pretty sure nobody think that Zuko would pull up a reverse card again, or turn his back against team Aang again. We saw the whole process of his mind from the beginning to the end of the story. Plus, and that’s the more important part for me, I feel like Zuko and Katara’s relationship has developed more in 4 episodes than Aang and Katara in the whole show, and by that I mean that Katara never got to be vulnerable around Aang, when she got to be with Zuko even before he joined the team (which is why she was so angry at him). In the three seasons, I don’t remember Aang calming down Katara when she was angry, he rather ran away from her and that’s ok, because it’s shown that Aang doesn’t like confrontation (honestly I’m like him 😂). She was always a support for him but he never was for her (I’m talking emotionally)
Ok so going back to why is Katara's grief different? Because her mother died for HER. Her mother did not die protecting her tribe she died protecting Katara because she was a water bender. I see this as one of Katara's driving reasons that she wants to be a master water bender. She needs to prove to herself that she was worth her mother's sacrifice. What a lot of people seem to forget is that Aang was not the only one to lose his people and his way of life. Katara had the same thing happen to her and while Aang may have to wonder what he could have done if he had not run away Katara knows there was never anything she could have done.
I've been arguing this for years, and all the hate (honestly thinly veiled misogyny) that got thrown Katara's way just made me leave the fandom years ago. The hate comes in waves with every new surge of the fandom, and way back it was definitely a lot more unfiltered and glaring.
Katara is my comfort character (I think that's what you call it). I have related to her since I watched the show as a kid, because I went through the same deal. I was always the one to take on the surrogate mother role, to comfort, to suppress my own heartache and emotions to soothe the emotions and heartache of others. Especially when my family had to go through several losses, and I had to be there for my siblings.
People mad at Katara seriously lack the insight and emotional understanding to sympathize with her, and to be honest? I think it stems from a disdain that a feminine caretaker would dare take care of fhemselves and be human sometimes. They put Katara on a pedestal, much like Aang had, and whenever she made it known she was human it confused people and they felt she was no longer "in character" due to her not conforming to their expectations of being perfect all the time.
It's like when an entitled old man calls his wife a nag or a harpy for asserting any needs, or a bitch for not putting up with everything with a smile. It's gross, but sadly the price when you have a feminine caretaker character that also has every other character projecting their own idealized version of the caretaker onto them. It gets lost that Katara is really her own person, not just a support character to project onto.
So true. I hate this fandom tho
This. It's disturbing seeing the same people who completely understand, justify and sympathize with Aang's irrational state in the desert don't understand Katara who's pretty much in the same state. Clearly they have no understanding of childhood trauma and loss of loved ones.
@@BlackMercuraYup, it's funny to see people defend aang because appa was his loved one, but in the same breath blame katara.
You NAILED. No notes. Completely nailed it. This is exactly why I relate to Katara and why I despise the fandom for being so insensitive with her. They come up with the stupidest reason to hate her.
I never even got a truly murderous vibe from Katara through all this. Angry and possibly somewhat violent, sure, but not to the point that the intention was to actually kill. It seemed like she just needed to face the guy and scream at him and finally got her chance. Catharsis doesn't need to be murderous. It reminds me of when Zuko faced Ozai, said what he needed to, and only used violence to defend himself. I wish there would have been more dialogue in TSR.
would've liked to see her slap him though.
God I’d love to see the version of this episode that was deemed “too shippy” that it had to go through rewrites.
there was a scene were zuko put a blanket over katara and with more interactions but bryke cut that from the script😑, like they literally had to cut ZKs interactions bcz they felt that, that threatened their self insert ship. But hey, atleast we finally got ZK friendship and katara wearing zuko's clothes for a whole episode.
@@Pallavi_here WHAT! can you send some links to read what they intended to do in that episode. My eyes OH MY GOD.
I'm very curious about this too. When the scriptwriters guild reopens in LA, if I'm still living here I will definitely check out the Southern Raiders episode and see if I find any discrepancies! 😂
@@lakshana.p2217 i'm sorry i haven't got any links like that, I heard it from a person who worked on atla and they said that that bryke found the original script too " shippy". I mean, they obviously had to have rested for a while, appa couldn't fly forever, could he!? what i wouldn't give to read Elizabeth welch's original story before bryke meddled with it.....
We were robbed. So robbed. ❤️🩹
One other thing I’d note is that what the Fire Nation did to the Southern Water Tribe also counts as genocide. The Fire Nation deliberately and systematically attempted to erase a vital part of the Tribe’s culture by kidnapping or killing all of its waterbenders, which also led to Kya’s murder. The attempted destruction of a people’s culture also falls under the definition of genocide.
I was thinking this too!
I think a reason why the fandom doesn’t acknowledge the SWT genocide as bad as a genocide as the Air Nomads genocide is bc in the SWT one, they were only looking for waterbenders and so some of them still survived while all the Nomads were killed, bender or not, so none of them were left.
Obviously, what happened to the SWT is still a genocide tho. If people wanna acknowledge that the Air Nomad killings were genocide, they must also acknowledge that the killing of benders in the SWT is also genocide.
The thing with the Air Nomads is that Bryke at one point confirmed that Air Nomads are ALL airbenders (....for some reason). That's supposedly why the FN tried to wipe them all out - there wasn't such a thing as directly targeting only the benders (like in the WTs). Not that it justifies either genocide, of course. I also think it's an odd writing choice to make the Air Nomads to be all benders... I have opinions on that. But that's totally off-topic, lol
@Sunday Girl yeah I've heard the rationale; not sure if I like the writing choice though. Like I said, I have opinions. 😂
@@SneezyReviews It sounds like a writing choice made to explain why/how the Air NOMADS could have all been wiped out, with "spirituality" being used as an excuse to rationalize it
Another thing to consider about Katara's trauma in relation to Sokka's: the implications of flashback to Kya's death in "The Southern Raiders." It suggests that Katara (as a very young child) had to see her mother's corpse in the immediate aftermath of what Yon Rha did to her while Sokka presumably didn't. That, in addition to Katara having to lose her childhood innocence to taking on the maternal role for her family and later the Team Avatar group, further compounds the impact of her loss.
yes yes yes. with the avatar "renaissance" that came about after it got on netflix i've noticed so much more katara slander. people will make fun of her for her grief while holding her to impossibly high standards. and it hasn't escaped my notice that katara, being a pillar of specifically feminine strength and having traditionally feminine qualities, is disrespected and hated while female characters with a more masculine approach to strength (like toph) are praised and revered. it's misogyny babes!! but no, katara showing her strength through her emotional intelligence, vulnerability, and endless patience and hope is treated as a sign of weakness. i could go on and on about this, but the jist is that people aren't trained to see traditionally feminine qualities as possessing equal strength to tranditionally masculine qualities, and women(especially brown women!!) are never allowed to lose their temper or make any mistakes without bringing wrath down upon their heads. great video sneezy
This looks to me like Jk Rowling's writing when Harry compares Ginny to Cho Chang due to the latter being more sensitive and the former being tougher, the lavender and hermione thing is the same thing, try another way rowling this is misogynistic
It shows who the real monsters are, katara is a human being, not an angel! And the ludicrous accusations are a reflection of what's in their hearts, whether they realize it or not. And Aang is a kid and katara is Teen that's approaching adulthood! Reason why katara is under such slander is because we the audience are looking at it from aang's perspective and view. But what about katara's POV? katara had bear the burden of being the strong motherly-figure in gang's lives, except zuko! Yet, once katara gets her time to show her humanity, she's villafied for it! Some of her words was harsh and I didn't like it but, I didn't hate her for it! The southern raiders episode made me love katara and zuko even more after sneezy's video on zutara I'm an official zutara shipper zuko and katara share better and healthier chemistry than aang and katara!
I think you're onto something with that misogyny claim. Considering so many of these new fans seem to worship the ground Sokka walks on.
@@Firebender554Oh and worship the ground Aang walks on as well.
@@Firebender554omg yes! They WORSHIP Sokka. And he is great don’t get me wrong but holy crap 😅. He is far more of an a-hole than Katara but that’s just a quirk for them.
Fun facts: Katara mentionned her mother only 6 times in the 66 episodes of 25min 😁, but people still find a way to make fun of it or find it annoying. Like if she was talking abt it all minutes of the show. THEN of course, doesn’t had a problem with Zuko honor (for exemple) smh. This fandoms is very hypocritical.. sometimes. Make it sense ?
One character I like to compare Katara to a lot is Harry from Harry Potter - Harry is another character whose parents died to protect him, and whose grief becomes a core part of his identity and sense of self. Harry's angst over his family comes up several times (the movies especially seem to play up his angsty side and downplay the other facets of his character). Yet I rarely see any memes of Harry being too whiny about his orphan status, lol.
I can't help feeling like if JK had written HP with a female protag, the fandom might have been a little less forgiving towards the angst, lol. I can't prove it though, it's just a hunch.
@@SneezyReviews IKR !! Good parallel ! I agreed I bet that if it was a « HARLEY Potter », fandom will drag this antagonist like neverrr, jump at her like piranhas lmaooo. Double Standard……. We see you 👀.
Thank you for you responding ! Btw Excellent analysis 🔥
So a lot of jokes about Katara's mother is ignoring the trauma, and a lot of jokes about Zuko's honor are nothing? XD
I didn't hate Katara, but this... This stupid to me.
@@Idkidc2173 who said that it was nothing ? Re-read my comment one another time bc that definitely wasn’t my point ….. XD
Please can you write the exact sentence where you think I’m saying that. Bc i can’t see where you see that bruh. My point is that Katara get MORE hate for mentionned her mother than Zuko mentionned his honor and that don’t make sense, It’s a fact. I just point the fact that Katara is the ONE that MOST people or hating and making joke on whereas she’s even not talking abt it several time like ppl love to make it seems like. Not Zuko. Not as much as Katara. You can’t deny it.
@@Idkidc2173 maybe ppl are joking abt his honor ( and that’s not fair too for me) but I never seen anyone hate him for this. Never seen. Sadly that not the same for a certain girl who had only mentioned her mother 6 times, her name is K…..?
The thing that ppl doesn’t understand with Katara’s quote to Aang « I knew that you wouldn’t understand » , is that she DIDN’T say that he wouldn’t understand how it feels to lost someone, of course she KNOW that he understand this, the dude lost his entire people, Katara is not stupid like a lot person loooove to make it seems like (only God know why lol).But the thing he didn’t understand is her way to deals with trauma. Nobody have the same way to deals with it. But Aang, doesn’t make an effort to accept/understand her need of revenge and try to impose his own way to deals with trauma. Aang deal with trauma with forgiveness. Katara deal with it with revenge. She’s right, he wouldn’t understand. He’s a monk.
the same thing is with zuko and mai, finally mai decides to express herself in the bonfire scene and zuko says he likes her to express herself, and she says "whatever" - it doesn't help how you've been behaving. honey he's behaving that way because he's confused and you being apathetic to everything he says makes him more explosive. I like Mai but why is she dating zuko anyway?
@@danielalaiz419 Mai said it doesn’t excuse the way zuko was acting. And she’s right lol
as harsh as this may sound…I’ve been saying this for a long time. I don’t care that she lost her mother, I don’t give a fuck that she’s only 14.
The bs she told sokka was inexcusable, insensitive, and frankly disgusting! Imagine it were the other way around for corn sake!
I’m in my 20s and was taught a harsh life lesson about life: “no one cares about your sob story, because we’ve all been through things” and it’s true…the world doesn’t give a shit, people could care less about you.
And that’s why I’m glad aang and sokka called her out. They’ve been through shit as well, and their pain shouldn’t be negated. Katara isn’t more important than anyone else.
Katara isn’t a poorly written character by any means but at the very least sokka deserved an apology.
@@margeryojije7862 go to sleep and only wake up when you yourself believe in what you wrote
@@danielalaiz419 I very much do😊 what i said was a painful fact. i refuse to tip toe around people's feelings. if you can't handle it...not my problem
go ask someone else to babysit you're feeings.
@@margeryojije7862 after you find a psychiatrist for your psychosis
This entire video was just amazing. THANK YOU for addressing that fact that in most episodes, Aang isn't visibly burdened by the death of his people (likely because it'd be a bit too grim and sad for a children's show). Just because he is able to remain mostly happy and carefree doesn't mean others should have to do so. The Katara's mom memes tend to grate on my nerves a bit as well. The Southern Raiders is literally the only time in the whole series that Katara brings up her mom that isn't a way to empathize with someone (or deliver exposition once in the first episode, and even then it was a rant about smelly socks, not her mom). So yeah, thank you so much for making this video! :)
One thing that people need to realize is that grief cannot be compared with other people's grief. They are too personal, too painful and too incomparable. People who compare grief have never experienced true depths of hell that it brings you down to. Never put someone down because of their pain.
Thank you so much for this video! I always thought the attacks of Katara's character took on misogynistic undertones. She does all this thankless emotional labor which is completely taken for granted (both by the characters in the show and by the audience) and then the second she doesn't measure up to this self-denying, nurturing feminine ideal, now she's a self-centered [insert expletive of your choosing]. The absolute vilification of Katara who is really the only feminine main character in the show (besides, idk, Ty Lee?) juxtaposed with fans' adulation of the "groundbreaking" (haha, get it?) Toph who is presented on numerous occasions as "just one of the boys" couldn't be more stark a contrast. And I don't want to make it a Toph vs Katara thing, I like both characters... Binary representations are extremely reductive and portrayals of femininity and girlhood/womanhood are polarized enough as it is. But just like, the fan reaction... I think is kind of telling in terms of, like, commonplace disdain for femininity. The jokes and memes about Katara touching her necklace and always bringing up her mother really speak to an inability to take women's/girls' negative emotions, pain, and trauma seriously. And then when an episode actually tries to contend with those negative emotions, because we (by we, I mean fans) never took her trauma seriously, now all of a sudden she's "acting out of character" or "unrecognizable" or "must be influenced by mr bad boy". I really appreciate how you pointed out how many of these takes completely strip Katara of her agency the one time she's given an opportunity to exercise it.
Gosh, Katara was one of the few characters I really saw myself in as a little brown/tan girl. And, I think when I was a kid and even a teenager, I always aligned more with Aang in TSR and was confused why Katara needed to go on that journey. But, at that time, I was in denial of my own trauma and expected myself to be nothing short of that self-denying feminine ideal. I wasn't being fair to myself. As I've come to face my own trauma, I have a better understanding of how vital it was for Katara to undergo that journey. I just wish I had seen more stories of girls confronting their darkness and grief instead of swallowing their pain when I was younger because somehow or other the messaging I recieved was that I needed to swallow mine, too.
I'd start to point out all the times in the show when Katara is obviously valued by the other characters ('taken for granted' my arse) but why bother? It was a good rant you had going though at the expense of the other characters. As for your trauma (Whatever it is or was) it's turned you from an 'emotional doormat' to someone who thinks showing caring emotions is weakness. Yep, any partner of yours better be prepared to 'nurture' themselves , or if you 'deign' to do it, they better be sure to reciprocate (the exact number of times too!) every smile, every pat on the shoulder, every hug, kiss, or any other form of what you consider 'emotional labor' or you'll let them know it! It's obvious you still have big problems or you could never write the misanthropic take on Avatar that you did. There's a heck of alot of nuance and growth by all the characters in this show. Oh, and the world isn't nice to anyone and it esp doesn't value men's emotions ( I mean if we ever have any except anger and lust amirite?) so we early learn to 'suck up' lots of our pain and anguish. Welcome to the real world.
@@remo27 I'm quite baffled,,, I have no idea why my comment struck such a nerve with you. I don't think I did a disservice to any of the characters in the show, as my criticism was primarily pointed at fan reaction...
Please don't assume things about me, my life, or my trauma. You are a stranger on the internet, you know nothing about me, and it's belittling to say things like "whatever it is/was" as if you don't actually believe me when I say I experienced trauma. (you're kind of proving my point... abt not taking women's trauma seriously...)
No, I don't think showing caring is weakness. (When did I ever say anything even remotely like that?) Being caring and considerate is something I strive to do all. the. time. But, I'm not superhuman, and I don't always have to fall on the sword for someone else's sake. My emotional needs and wellbeing aren't less important than anyone else's.
As for your rant about me finding a "partner",,, like... it sounds like you're talking about an ex... Anyway, I'm aro/ace, so I don't want a partner, lmao. Literally the last concern on my mind so that wasn't the put-down you thought it was. And yeah, hypothetically if i were to have a partner, yes, I would want a relationship that's mutual and reciprocal... where both people's emotional investment is equal... Equality and reciprocity in relationships, what a radical concept!
Ummm, I think the real "misanthropic take" is saying that "the world isn't nice to anyone," but that that's just the way the world is, so you've gotta suck it up, and we should all just suffer in pain cuz "welcome to the real world"... Pause for a moment. Why would you want to live in a world like that? Where people of all sorts just have to suffer in silence? The world isn't fixed, it's not forever destined to be that way. If you think that's a problem, why not be part of the solution?
And I agree with you, men's non-violent emotions are discarded and devalued. That's the thing about a hegemonic masculinity that demands men to be invulnerable-even as men stand to benefit the most from it, it ultimately comes at a great cost to them.
@Sunday Girl Actually, the 'worst crime' a female character of the 'traditional feminine' type can commit is to to be openly proud of her sexuality, or sexual choices, esp if she is sexually aggressive, since femininity is (wrongly of course) associated with submissiveness. Also, you are overlooking the fact that Katara, by openly fighting is already breaking many 'feminine' stereotypes. So no, I'd not say Katara is 'traditionally feminine' in the sense that she fights and takes on the 'male role' in many ways. NONE of the characters in Avatar with the exception of maybe Zuko (and I'll have to think about him more) are totally 'traditional' when it comes to 'Gender Roles'. And even if , off-the cuff- I'm right in my impression of Zuko, you'll note he doesn't try to impose 'tradition' on anyone else. Also , you seem to be asserting that no females can dislike Katara. I can assure you there are quite a few who do. Some downright hate 'femininity' - just as some males hate 'masculinity' (and not just any 'toxic' type). I have no doubt that some people had issues with Katara being less nurturing or 'nice'. But I doubt most of the fandom cares. The story is too good, and almost all of the character reactions make sense which is a sign of good storytelling.
@@carolinea6769 : @remo27 I'm quite baffled,,, I have no idea why my comment struck such a nerve with you. I don't think I did a disservice to any of the characters in the show, as my criticism was primarily pointed at fan reaction...
"...Completely taken for granted (both by the characters in the show and by the audience) and then the second she doesn't measure up to this self-denying, nurturing feminine ideal, now she's a self-centered [insert expletive of your choosing]"
Remember that? You led off with that attack. Not just on your fellow fans, the vast vast majority who went nowhere NEAR such an over-reaction to this episode (on the forums I was on when I watched it the big 'controversy' was over Katara using blood bending which many men and women who deem themselves progressive compare to rape, and yet even they weren't downright hating on Katara or calling her names or anything), but on the other avatar characters themselves. And very unfairly, I might add.
"Please don't assume things about me, my life, or my trauma. You are a stranger on the internet, you know nothing about me, and it's belittling to say things like "whatever it is/was" as if you don't actually believe me when I say I experienced trauma. (you're kind of proving my point... abt not taking women's trauma seriously...) "
This would normally be a fair expectation, but you assumed lots of things about your fellow fans. On top of that , whatever it is/was shows I have no idea what happened to you (obviously something had to happen for me not to have a clue what it was or is), I don't see how that sentence can possibly be twisted into any kind of 'doubt' you were traumatized.
Your 'point' about 'not taking women's trauma seriously' is just something I've seen rehashed hundreds of times since I've been on the internet (since 1995) or started reading political magazines/books/letters sections back in the late 1970's as a rather precocious child. At this point I have to wonder if you even pay attention to the society and world you live in. "Me Too" was all about women's feelings. When putting a hand on a knee 20 years ago can become a political thing and get a guy censored or fired (This actually happened in the UK google it), then we see policy subordinated to feelings. Even 'retroactive' ones, which is ridiculous and totally unfair. In the US the US Supreme Court has set the standard by which 'sexual harassment' claims are to be judged. They had several choices: "Reasonable man " (since most defendants are men this would help the defense usually) "Reasonable Woman" or the default , neutral, "Reasonable Person". They chose "Reasonable Woman". One could write a book on this stuff and I could give many more examples, but at the simplest level : we have policies and even laws that downright privilege female emotions over male ones or that make evoking certain emotions a crime. To my knowledge the US has no laws or policies that prioritize male feelings in any civilly or criminal adjudicatable way except the Sexual Harassment ones and those require (due to the Judicial standard) extra proof on the part of the male when he is accusing a female of that crime. From Victims Advocates in the legal system to sexual trauma units and special sexual assault units, I'd say the idea that our society doesn't value women's feelings or trauma (not the same thing) is laughably wrong. An individual man might not care for women in generals feelings or your feelings in some specific setting but that is not the same thing at all. That's someone maybe being a jerk, and jerks have existed forever.
"No, I don't think showing caring is weakness. (When did I ever say anything even remotely like that?) Being caring and considerate is something I strive to do all. the. time. But, I'm not superhuman, and I don't always have to fall on the sword for someone else's sake. My emotional needs and wellbeing aren't less important than anyone else's."
I think I misunderstood because you constantly said caring was a traditionally feminine role. But it's obvious you don't hate the feminine, instead the real problem is the idea of Emotional Labor. The idea is this: A smile, a hug, an expression of concern or a 'listening ear' is something that no woman ever wants to do or even (at least sometimes) ENJOYS doing. Either she's brainwashed into doing it by the nebulous ethereal 'patriarchy', or she's pressured into doing it because of 'society' which usually doesn't mean her friends or family or some busybody scold getting 'on her case' and making her feel bad, but instead a few TV shows, or books here and there (where you can find plenty of books that say the opposite esp these days). Anyway, given this 'horrible exploitation' , there's a Cosmic Ledger that needs to be balanced, at least say many feminists, and (since there shouldn't be any difference in the expression of emotions between men and women according to modern dogma) that means men are at fault. Now, maybe you didn't mean it that way. Maybe you meant that you had emotional needs too, and you never let yours show. Well, all I can say is that is not the normal path for girls or women. "Female tears" is a thing, and often results in action. We men may not express our emotions as much but we tend to expect that wives/girlfriends will. There's even a genre of jokes (that you probably hate) about it. So, believe it or not, WE expect (as a general role) to be doing most of the hugging/comforting/bottling up emotions. At least in normal relationships. Maybe most of the stuff you were exposed to was adventures or something where The Goal is all important and relationships are de-priortized at least compared to that. Anyway, men get punished by most (not all, and not always THANK GOD) women if we express weakness of any type, sometimes even sadness draws a shrug or a laugh. Ironic that most men expect to be doing most of the 'emotional labor' and don't complain about it, instead chalking it up to how MOST (once again not all) women are. The women who think about it on the other hand , tend to assign blame. I wonder which choice is more helpful? I know I'd rather my partner tell me her needs , rather than count any 'excess hugs' she gave away against me. Relationships are built on if your needs are meant. Just as people may have differing 'sex drives', people also have (due to luck of circumstance and to personality) differing 'emotional support needs' and the idea that these have to be 'in balance' is silly and unrealistic. If my needs in a given area are met, it's still a good relationship even if my partner seems to need 5 hugs to my 1.
"Ummm, I think the real "misanthropic take" is saying that "the world isn't nice to anyone," but that that's just the way the world is, so you've gotta suck it up, and we should all just suffer in pain cuz "welcome to the real world"... Pause for a moment. Why would you want to live in a world like that? Where people of all sorts just have to suffer in silence? The world isn't fixed, it's not forever destined to be that way. If you think that's a problem, why not be part of the solution?"
Nah, the 'misanthropic take' was yours as you assigned horrible thoughts and bad motivations about Katara to the entire (or nearly entire) Avatar fanbase. Misanthropy implies a hatred or disdain for humanity or a necessarily human attribute, not to the planet, the Universe or any other non-living or non-human system. "Why would I want to live in a world like that"? Now, aren't you assuming something about me? The world is as it is, I don't always have to like it. Women are, as women are, they are still going to exalt strength and punish weakness, esp as while I've seen 10000000000000 calls for and expressions that men 'should change' I don't think I've ever seen ONE (aside from a few small bloggers) saying women should change this or that thing about them. Given that, I don't magically expect things TO CHANGE, at least not any time soon. And as I've watched things that used to be nearly unalloyed good, become far more mixed in effect, or even downright destructive, I'm now too old and jaded to believe that all change is necessarily good.
@@remo27 It really should go without saying, but the characters in Avatar are fictional, they're pretend, they're made up. I can "attack," or more accurately, critique them as much as I want (not that I did in the first place) and it's completely fair game. But I didn't "attack" anyone or anything, I merely stated an observation. Now, you can have different observations from mine, but that doesn't necessarily mean that my observations are automatically wrong. My observation was that the copious examples of emotional labor performed by Katara largely go unrecognized both by characters in the show and by fans. This observation is informed by my own interpretation of the show (which is subject to my own biases and filtered through my past experiences and therefore highly subjective) and my own experiences in AtLA fan circles. You are free to disagree with me on this point, but I don't understand why you think it is something that is even arguable. My experiences =/= yours.
Again, I didn't assume anything about my fellow fans. I didn't have to assume anything because what I said is observable. There are numerous examples in this very video of fans reacting exactly as I said they did. An unflattering observation =/= an "attack" or an "unfair assumption".
Okay, my bad for reading doubt into your parenthetical "whatever is/was," but can you really blame me when the tone of your reply to me was incredibly rude and condescending throughout?
Holy cow! "We have policies and even laws that downright privilege female emotions over male ones or that make evoking certain emotions a crime." SEXUAL ASSAULT IS A CRIME! OF COURSE WE HAVE LAWS THAT MAKE COMMITTING A CRIME CRIMINAL!!!! "Privilege female emotions over male ones".... Do you not understand that these male emotions you're talking about are men's desires to commit acts of sexual coercion and violence against women, and these female emotions you're talking about are women's desires to get a tiny amount of justice???? I don't have time to litigate sexual assault with you, so I will just link this journal publication that goes more in depth than I have the willpower to do: womenslawproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Rape-and-Sexual-Assault-in-the-Legal-System-FINAL.pdf
I'll just say this, look at the statistics. The rate of "false accusations" of SA are no higher than the rate of false accusations for any other crime. For SA, it's only about 5%. The vast majority of cases of SA go unreported. Out of r*pe cases that go to court, only ~20% result in a conviction. But yeah, sure man. Tell me more about how the legal system "unfairly" favors women in SA cases. /s
Here are some actual statistics on SA in the US:
rainn.org/statistics/criminal-justice-system
legaljobs.io/blog/sexual-assault-statistics/
"I think I misunderstood because you constantly said caring was a traditionally feminine role." ???? When? When did I said that? "Constantly" Pffft where?!?! I never said that, you did.
Most emotional work (unpaid emotional labor) in relationships is performed by women for a variety of social, political, historic, and economic reasons. Here's a study that gets into it: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4617758/pdf/nihms-698328.pdf
Most men are punished for emotional vulnerability by other MEN, not by women, though yes, women can still be awful about it. And here's an early study that explores this topic: link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/BF00288179.pdf
"...people have (due to luck of circumstance and personality) differing 'emotional support needs' and the idea that these have to be 'in balance' is silly and unrealistic." How so? Why is balancing emotional needs in a relationship unrealistic? With good communication skills and mindfulness, it's very much achievable. Why is it "silly"? There's nothing trivial or frivolous about it, it's really quite key for a successful relationship. "In balance" doesn't have to mean equivalent so much as equitable.
You do realize that emotional labor goes beyond just hugs and smiles, right?
Lmao, the avatar characters aren't real!!! I don't even hate any of them, but even if I did, that's not misanthropy, by your own definition! I didn't "assigned horrible thoughts and bad motivations" to the Avatar fanbase, they revealed those things about themselves through their remarks!
"Now, aren't you assuming..." Do you know what a rhetorical question is?
I'd like to introduce you to a radical concept called intersectional feminism whose literature includes countless critiques of mainstream (white) feminism and women themselves. Great place to start would be Hood Feminism by Mikki Kendall which was published just last year. Just because you haven't come across calls inside the house for women to change doesn't mean they don't exist. Women can absolutely internalize and reproduce some toxic stuff, there's no disputing that, but these biased cultural frameworks exist to benefit some people at the expense of others. It's important to remember who actually holds the power.
How can someone who actually watched Zuko's change through the series can say that he wanted to be accepted by Katara too much that he was going to let her kill someone? (Or worse, not accepted but just to GET IN HER PANTS? Are we talking about the same character? You know Zuko aka Lord Honor?)
But other than I can't believe that people actually getting triggered by Katara's trauma in the series. After all, no one can truly understand how someone would be affected by certain trauma. Everybody grief differently and those kinds of things affect people differently. As you mentioned Katara became the person she is BECAUSE of what happened to her mother, her tribe, her culture. (No one mentions that it wasn't just Aang that lost his culture, it was Katara too. Fire Nation hunted every waterbender in the South Pole, if they could they were going to sweep all the North Pole too.)
So yes, her mother died to protect her, the last waterbender in the South. And that made Katara who she is. It's understandable that she wanted revenge even for just a moment. Not everyone is a twelve-year-old monk after all.
I don't like Kataang because of that too, Aang wants to see Katara like an angel. When she "lashes out" he starts to act like she can't be angry, revengeful, traumatized, and basically just a human with feelings.
I dont understand why Katara needs further justification than "emotional overload". Every character has had it at some point and this was just her turn. She had feelings that she didn't know how to deal with but had to try. I always felt like that's more than enough of an explanation for her behavior in the southern raiders. People do stupid shit when they're mad.
as someone who has watched ATLA when it was airing on TV i honestly had no idea so many people hated Katara in southern Raides episode (probably because i neve engaged with the fandom discourse of Avatar)
for me personally i adore this episode (besides the obvious Zutara) because it was the first time Katara was shown as a complex character, during the entire series she was always the "motherly" and "forgiving" one but southern raides showed that thats not always the case, she wants justice , she wants to face the source of her trauma, she is furious, she is repulsive and she finally has her closer, also its one of the few times where the episode is about HER wants and needs but this time its far more personal than the previous ones, which i cannot emphasize how important it is, honestly what better character writing do you want?
I love Katara. Did I love her lashing out? No, but I understand why she did. Almost everyone in the Gaang lashed out at some point, yet it's unfortunate that there are so many fans who love to nitpick Katara's anger and belittle her grief. She's complex and multifaceted, and I love her-flaws and all-like I love all the other characters.
Also, total facepalm at those takes you showed by some fans. I mean..."Zuko made her bring darkness into her heart while Aang only ever brought out her lightness." ... *COUGH* Lmao I don't even know what to say...just *facepalm*
Was the way she acted that one episode the most appropriate? Not really per say. But was the way she acted understandable or realistic in the context of that particular episode? Yes definitely.
@@garynaccarato4606 Agreed. I've always liked that the episode allows Katara to feel her pain fully, as well as highlights her duality and depth as a character.
My favorite is 24:10 - _"If it were up to Zuko, Katara would have become a murderer and embraced bloodbending, all so she would accept him _*_(or even more fucked up, to get in her pants)."_*
Imagine missing the character arc for BOTH of those characters _SO_ hard.
@@ember-brandt Honestly, those takes were so ridiculously bad they actually made me laugh XD
@Maimuna Yusuf There are many reasons why I love Zutara, but to keep it short I've always loved how it never felt one-sided. A good relationship is about give and take, and we can see that between Zuko and Katara. They are opposites, but they are not _complete_ opposites, and they comfort and open up to each other in ways we don't see them do with other characters. All the symbolism (red and blue, sun and moon, yin and yang, etc.) adds to my love for them, but as a bonus and not my core reason. Simply, they balance each other. As for Kataang and Maiko, I'm neutral. I don't hate them, but I don't like them either. The way they were written makes me believe Zuko and Katara would have been more complementary than what we got in the end.
I will defend katara to my last breath 😤
Katara defense squad
Something that I’ve noticed rewatching the show katara’s outburst she does have in the show are either played for laughs and or not taken seriously by the group particularly aang and sokka. The only time her grief and tears are only taken serious just happened to happen with zuko. And they wonder why I ship it. 😢
I'm telling u, i get so mad when i see those memes and comments..just nobody ever berates aang for shouting at toph and katara in the beach episode, but when it comes to katara, people are like: woah what a bitch!! And TSR was the only episode where katara actually got to address her trauma and people shame her for it. Like, give the girl a break everyone would be dead without her. Its worth noting that zuko is the ONLY character who actually cares abt her feelings and trauma for the first time and people shame him too. There's also a strong parallel between zuko's confrontation of ozai ( the source of his trauma concerning his mother) and katara's trauma of yon rha. One would think that people would realize that zuko just wanted katara to get closure bcz it worked for him and he understands katara's trauma and how much they have in common back in the catacombs.
NO ONE EVER bashes zuko for wanting to confront ozai but when katara wants to confront yon rha, the fandom gives her a hard time. And it was Aang who actually first thought that katara wanted to kill yon rha ( the fact that her canon love interest immediately thinks she wants to kill makes me so sad). In the end, both zuko and katara healed from their trauma because they got the chance to confront their abusers. Also, just like u said, aang's grief is different from katara's. Aang really can't do anything for his trauma bcz all those firebenders are dead and gone. In katara's case, she knows that this man is alive and this is someone she can actually recognize from their eyes. I feel like thats much more... personal( like ozai's relationship with zuko) From her perspective, who knows how many more people he kills everyday. And the survivor's guilt that kya died for her, just like zuko with ursa. If u ask me, katara was the only person in TSR who was completely in character, all the others had ooc moments. And i really wish the fandom would appreciate katara a bit more. I loved this video, thank u so much for posting it.
The fact that Aang compares Katara to Jet (someone who she hates bc he wanted to harm innocent people) and Sokka doesn’t even defend her but instead tells her that “I think Aang may be right” is just devastating. Katara probably felt like no one had her back and so that’s why she snapped and said “then you didn’t love her the day I did.”
I think being accused of wanting to hurt an “innocent man” by your best friend and your own brother has to sting a lot. Plus said best friend automatically assuming that you wanted revenge and wanted to kill the man must’ve made her feel so (justifiably) angry.
Of course when you are accused of that and being treated like that, you’re gonna lash out. I don’t get why the fandom misunderstand Katara’s choice and words
People are allowed to hate on Katara.
@@Whocares158 that does'nt make it right tho
@@Whocares158 that's the best reply you can give? Lmao 🤣
@@Whocares158 y'all have 0 valid reasons to do so tho.
Katara stepped in and helped Sokka get through Kya's death and Aang doesn't necessarily feel the same way Aang does because it's not like Aang knew every single Air Nomad personally.
But no one stepped in to help her with her grief. There's a song I like that says "Sometimes you don't say goodbye once. You say goodbye over and over again." Which I guess Katara did every time she touched her mother's necklace.
I genuinely didn't even know this was a thing people were mad at Katara for. It just seems really stupid to get mad about.
I know! I completely understand Katara in this. If I was in that situation (seeing the burning corpse of my mom I think I will lose it)
This was the episode that broke their Oedipal fantasies of Katara. Of course they’re going to be mad about it.
@@IroncabbitWell true lmao.
I see people defending Zuko for harming Iroh, Defending Aang for harming the sandbenders, but Katara? She gets shit thrown at her.
And your comment is the reason why, their expectations of katara being the perfect girl were shattered (similar to how they were shattered for aang)
@@Ironcabbitoh shit! yes that was definitely part of it. That episode triggered so many people!
The negatives of being the empath is that if someone truly does something unforgiveable in the empath's eyes, it is extremely difficult to forgive them. I think Katara took an incredible first step by not killing him. I don't see it as unreasonable that she isn't ready at that point in time to let go of that hate. Grief is different for each person and can take a LOOOOONG time to heal.
CW: for mild discussion of PTSD
Had a discussion with a psychiatrist some years back about PTSD and how, often, it ties back to a single moment.
Not to say that Aang loosing his people and culture wasn't 'traumatic', it certainly was. Same with Sokka's loss of his mother.
But they don't have the same kind of PTSD that Katara has. That moment that is seared into your brain. The one you even glance at and the panic attack sets in. Katara's outburst is, to me, very realistic. When you face that particular kind of trauma, even expressions of empathy (and as pointed out, Aang's empathy in that moment came with qualifiers) can feel like an attack. It really shouldn't be surprising that she lashed out. (And yeah, just looking at the sheer number of times that Aang lashed out at her specifically with zero repercussions. Internalized misogyny is a Thing.)
Furthermore, I'm actually proud of Katara for being able to talk openly about her trauma, even in the guarded way she does in the first 2 seasons, never going into detail. Getting past the first telling is tough and without the practice that she has had, turning it into a tool to aid her empathy, I'm not sure she would have been able to identify it as a source for her anger at Zuko. That repeated telling that so many people find annoying? That can be necessary for dealing with PTSD.
Now, I'm not a psychiatrist and I can't actually diagnose Katara as having PTSD specifically (or at least it would be irresponsible of me to do so), but given what we know, that sounds like what she's got.
Okay, that's all I have the spoons for.
I have always think abt a headcanon where Sokka, Hakoda and Katara are at Kaya’s funerals. Hakoda is making prayers to the spirits, on his knees in front of Kaya’s grave and saying last words to his deceased wife. Sokka is crying so hard, rage and pain in his eyes. Then Katara keep a straight face, don’t let one tears drop fall of her eyes (she had cried enough), trying to be strong, to prepare to had the shoulders wide enough to take care, support/be the pillar of her family, of her tribe like the rebels water tribe fighter she will be. But completely abandoned her child mentality and childhood and act like a mother she isn’t bc of this war.
FOR THE LIFE OF ME I dont understand how much these people hate or dislike Katara same goes for Korra... the underlying misogyny is often go unnoticed or ignored. I love your analysis. This vide was recommended by a person from a page dedicated for ATLA and LOK... subscribing and hitting that bell
Southern raiders has always been my favorite avatar episode, had no idea fools were clowning on it like this
Same!
I’ve always quietly agreed with Katara’s “then maybe you didn’t love her the way I did!” outburst but I was never able to properly explain why or put my reasoning into words. But you did it brilliantly. 👍
Another banger highlighting the hypocrisy and misogyny in ATLA looking back at it in 2021. This video is everything I've ever wanted from this analysis, thanks and keep it up!
@Sunday Girl Oh lord, reminds me of the time I argued with a guy on IG who said "Katara could handle Sokka and Toph but Aang was fine." He kept trying to double-down that Aang was gonna survive in the desert without Katara thanks to his glider because he wasn't physically in danger(ie high like Sokka or truly blind like Toph)because mental and emotional pain is minor compared to physical when I've said three times Aang's mindset would've caused him to collapse from exhaustion due to pushing himself to search for Appa with no food, no water, and no rest whatsoever.
@Sunday Girl YES THANK YOU Aang was wrong for yelling at Toph and people still excuse that. Why not Katara's outburst? Really weird.
I absolutely love this video and found everything so accurate and well spoken. I just wish you had added a little section on Zuko’s influence and how their pain actually is quite similar.
Aang’s and Sokka’s grief didn’t have lasting and consistent changes to their way of life. With Aang the knowledge is too recent for that, and with Sokka Katara filled the role of his lost mother. So while they still felt loss they didn’t have to change from it.
There is also the point of emotional fatigue that comes with housework and keeping charge of a household. Studies have shown that the role of motherhood and household duties usually thrust upon women in our society has the same or even more stress and exhaustion related to it that a job does. But it is also fairly thankless as shown in the show. There are also studies about childhood trauma centered around children forced into a parental role early on.
Katara and Zuko have similar trauma because they both lost their parental figure in their life. They struggled and pushed through and even though Zuko had Iroh, before that his mother was gone and his father was absent his entire life. To clarify by absent I mean not involved unless it’s to negatively impact Zuko’s life and wellbeing.
On this point, that is exactly why Zuko understood what Katara needed. It’s the fact they have similar pain. He knows it won’t just go away without facing it because he himself has done the same. In that sense Zuko became to Katara what Iroh was for him. A guild leading her to recovery. What Katara has been for the group all along. Zuko knew Katara wouldn’t go through with it. You can see it in the way he stands back the entire time. Watching things play out. He also knew that healing is important for someone’s wellbeing.
Katara didn’t have the chance to heal before because no one was willing to see her side before. The group was so determined to keep Katara how she was, the person who helped them, that they weren’t willing or able to see what she really needed to heal. To end this I don’t think what Katara said to Sokka was ok but I also don’t agree with Aang and Sokka ganging up on Katara. They weren’t listening to her just pushing her away. People pushed into a corner lash out and if you are going to push them you should be prepared for the backlash.
I pretty much agree with you; I could have talked about zuko but ultimately I didn't feel like it fit the scope and intent of my video. I made my video, as I said, sort of in response to some of the bad takes I'd seen - it seemed to me that people were fairly willing to mock Katara for feeling alone or unheard or not understood by Aang and Sokka. I'd seen a lot of comments that were critical of Katara for suggesting that their grief could not allow them to relate to her, or was somehow "not as bad" as hers, and I basically made my video to tackle the idea "okay, instead of just laughing at her or getting mad at her, could Katara actually have a point?"
So I did talk about Aang and Sokka, but I wanted to talk about them specifically in the context of exploring those arguments. I also wanted to tie in the overall idea that this was Katara's journey, and the arguments about the role that the male characters play in that journey can sometimes detract from that. That's why I purposely chose not to really talk about Zuko here. There's shippable stuff in this episode, sure, and I don't necessarily want to imply we shouldn't ever explore that angle, but I really wanted to try to keep the focus on "was Katara justified" in this video.
(Unrelated, but honestly, most of the shippy arguments I feel strongly about wrt Zutara or Kataang in this ep are more like rebuttals/counterarguments anyway, than arguments in and of themselves - it's usually me rejecting the idea that Zuko is toxic for her, or that Aang is the angel on her shoulder. I might explore TSR again at some point from a more shippy perspective, or even just one that explores Zuko's role in more depth, I just didn't want this video to be that.)
The sad part of this episode is that I have met people who condemn her on both sides: for not forgiving her mother's killer and calling her heartless, and saying she was dumb and naïve for not killing him. So, there's no winning for Katara here, because of the way her character is written, people never really think of her outside of her role as the caretaker, and that episode specifically breaks that mold.
They see Katara as a character or love interest to aang, not as her own person. Which is why they all get so shattered when she doesn't mold into the caretaker or babysitter aang wants.
as someone who has lost mother at the same age as Katara, I completely understood her anger and pain and didn't blame her at all
Katara is the pillar of this team . you can argue that without her , Aang would not have learned the four elements and defeat the fire lord . people keep forgetting , that after her mother death . she took the responsibility of Sokka and the village . Sokka is older than her btw . so having such burden with sadness of loss on her back . she hardly can be selfish because the circumstance demanded her to be strong for her brother , for herself .
Katara saying "you all don't know how much I've suffered after mother's death" is realistic reaction imo and not out of character. it actually will be worse if she never express that , she do know other member in Avatar group did suffer the same as that . but keep in mind . when everyone were at their lowest . she was there to hold things together . so to finally have chance to avenge her mother , the same person who took her chance for normal childhood from her and from Sokka . she of course will be selfish and will want to do it . hack in the whole show she never showed any amount of selfishness (yes she not perfect and did get mad and stuff) but come on , the writers did show how much pain she and her brother endures because of that loss . is it not fair that she will act upon that instinct and want revenge . until that point in the show . no one saw the fire people and how their civilians lives . the past 3 season the fire nation were just shown as those evil bloodthirsty conquering force . the fact Katara wanted to kill the man who killed her mother then she spare his life but also still hold a grudge against him . not only beautifully display that humanity resolve but also shown that even the enemy have human side . she doing the right things against the fact that she have the right to kill a monster in her eye , show how much resolve she got and knowing that being better is not by word or power but also by controlling self at moment of anger .
I don't know about you but she deserves more credit than anyone give her .
Tbh, Katara is right; Sokka did not love Kya the way she did.
This doesn’t mean that any of them loved her any less or any more, but it’s undeniable that they loved Kya in different ways. Even the show portrays it this way.
Despite being Kya’s first child, Sokka appears to be closer to his dad than his mom. Katara too also seems to be closer to her mom than her dad (before she got killed ofc). This is normal since sons/daughters typically have a stronger bond with their father/mother.
Considering how Kya was most likely the one who taught Katara how to sow, cook, clean, help give birth, be a nurturer, it’s obvious that when Kya died all these aspects were no longer present and Katara had to be the one to uphold them.
Because of this, Sokka still had a maternal figure that he could lean on for comfort. He got to grief and was allowed to fully comprehend Kya’s death. The way he loved Kya is the same way he loved Katara while the why Katara loved Kya is how a child loves their mother.
The way they loved Kya was different and it’s very apparent because when the show frames it this way. I just wish people could understand that instead of taking it as a Katara telling Sokka that he didn’t love Kya as much as she did.
It also doesn't help his case of siding with Aang when he tells Toph with Katara listening that he doesn't remember what his mom looks like and has Katara as the picture of her.
Literally. People tend to misquote the scene and assume that Katara said that Sokka didnt love their mother AS MUCH as her, even though she said he didnt love him THE WAY she did.
Sokka didn’t see his mothers dead body in front of him
I related to katara so much when she told aang I will never forgive him.
Because of my birth parents and what happen after that in my childhood I will never forgive them. And in tv and church they always teach that forgiveness is the way to heal but I always disagreed. I have moved on and put it behind me but I will never forgive it or forget what happen. So when katara said that I completely understood.
You did so good in part 1 I teared up when you showed katara in the water. I never noticed her tears. I will never be able to see that scene again without tearing up with katara.
So unfair how hated Katara is for having a moment of humanity, but the same people also poke fun at her for being a walking inspiration poster (I mean, that was the running joke of the Ember Island Players episode). Also, my mom and I were incredibly close and I've struggled more with losing her than other members of my family. That's not to discount their grief and missing her, but they've just moved on in ways I've never been able to do. All that to say I actually understand Katara saying Sokka didn't love their mom the way she did (and in fact, Sokka admitted as much to Toph when he said the word mom brings up an image of Katara more than Kya).
the idea that "if it were up to zuko, katara would have become a murderer" is so patently offensive not only to katara's agency but also to zuko's entire character. when has zuko EVER murdered ANYONE? time and time again we are shown zuko deliberately choosing NOT to take lives, even when he is culturally allowed or even encouraged to do so (his agni kai with zhao, the battle strategy in the war room). i swear these aang sycophants have singlehandedly ruined the fandom for me.
I can't help but wonder if people at the time actually gave a shit about Katara, or if they just used her as a surrogate for the affection they wanted to give other characters, like our Cinnamon Roll Aang.
I think that also speaks to the shipping discourse, ppl didn't like Zutara bc they didn't like Zuko. And then used serious topics to cover it up as being about morals instead.
I’ve noticed many hardcore anti zutara fans also have a hate boner for zuko
Anyone who thinks that Katara was wrong in seeking revenge then there probably forgetting that she's still human
Basically, Aang
For him she's an idol, while she is indeed a human-being.
Yes, because killing a man would make her feel soo much better.
Revenge is not Justice. Just because you don't want revenge doesn't mean you forgive. You turn the other cheek to stop the cycle of violence.
Yup. Same people who would most definitely do WORSE in her position start get annoying and preachy.
Blabbing about forgiveness, ‘revenge is not the answer🤪’ blah blah blah.
The Southern Raiders has always been my favourite episode, and a lot of what you bring up in this video factors into that. Katara has always been the character I could most easily identify with, as I grew up feeling responsible for other kids and managing the emotional outbursts of a parent with BPD. I loved seeing her being able to finally express her grief and her anger, and I also loved the message that you don’t always have to forgive the person who hurt you.
Sometimes you can move past the hurt without having to forgive, and that’s so freeing. A lot of that is a semantics thing, but at the age I was when ATLA aired “forgiveness” tended to boil down to “I guess it was okay that you did X thing to me, I am no longer mad”. I know now that’s not what it is, but forgiveness carried that meaning for me when I was young because I often felt I had to say those words to make sure that people stopped hurting me (either by being cold or pretending I didn’t exist) out of spite because I hadn’t forgiven them yet. And then once I said those magic words, they acted like they hadn’t wronged me in the first place and would often go back to doing similar things that caused pain in the first place.
Seeing a character so close to my heart reject the premise was so powerful to young me. It’s awful how much people hated her for basically setting a boundary. She understands that forgiveness is important, and she does forgive people, but Yon Rah is someone she can never forgive and that’s fine.
Also, the fantastic chemistry that Zuko and Katara have in the episode was great. I’m so glad that someone was on her side, and it’s fitting that it’s Zuko.
This video is so important to me. Katara has always been my all time favorite character in pretty much any piece of media, and this video made me basically sob. It was somewhat validating in a way, to hear someone else articulate everything me and my friends have been saying abt Katara for years perfectly, and to see the people in the comments agreeing and understanding- it was just too much. I love your videos sm, please never stop unpacking misunderstood characters and complex ships that are more than what they seem
I never understood why people hated and made fun of Katara in this episode, because this is where I liked her the most. Tbh I found her constant "mom behavior" quite irritating all throughout the show, even when it was portrayed as a good thing. Her lashing out for once was a great change of pace. It showed me that Katara was truly a multi-dimensional character, and not just some one-note throwaway deuteragonist.
I never knew that this was a thing in the fanbase!
This video was so impressive and just made katara even more impressive
THANK YOU FOR THIS VIDEO. it's always frustrated me how frequently people belittle katana's grief and trauma. she gets so much criticism and i've never understood why! katara's always carrying out so much emotional labor for the group and taking up this motherly role, and although her strength is undoubtedly part of what makes her so admirable, it isn't fair how many burdens she's had to bear for others on her own, especially at her age; so of course it's understandable that she'd lash out once in a while! it also just sucks that so many people seem to fail to appreciate her empathy and all that she does for others. if i'm being honest it's hard to ignore the gendered (misogynistic) undertones of the way people often treat katara as a character. women and girl characters should be allowed to be flawed, make mistakes and express their rage without being so vilified for it :/
People can dislike her as much as they want I don't really care,it os just a matter of taste...My problem with all the hate is that they never care about the context... You can hate her for saying stuff in anger but pretending that she thinks her trauma is the only thing that matters when she is the constantly helping everyone heal is wrong
I know this video is about Katara, but I can't help but ask: How come every single time a female character is allowed to reveal the true weight of their emotional trauma, or have the audacity to make mistakes (Glimmer in season 4 of She-Ra) or even so much as be honest with how they are feeling and how they've been treated (Amber in Invincible), the fanbase turns on them like a pack of rabbid wolfbats?
And then on the other side if your character is too reserved and all the emotions are under the surface, they're called boring (Captain Marvel) or if they're too perfect they get called a "Mary Sue" (Rey).
And heaven forbid if a female character is overweight or look in any way that makes them not conventionally good looking (Abby in TLoU2).
Like seriously, the flaming hoops female characters have to leap over is ridiculous.
Fanbases suck.
YES AND YES! There’s an unfair and unbelievable amount of subtle misogyny in fandoms. It’s quite disheartening and why I avoid getting too involved in fandoms.
No Amber from invincible was in the right until she said she knew he was invincible because at minimum she is a manipulator and at worse she is emotionally abusive.
@@lvlHive Yeah, and if you figured out a secret about your significant other that they were purposely keeping from you, a secret that apparently two of his buddies get to be in on when you aren't, I suppose your initial reaction is going to be, "eh, whatever it's cool."
Call her manipulative all you want, Eve was right. It WAS ideotic of Marc to continue to string her along, give her the most ill-though out bullshit excuses, and just expect to be too stupid to fall for it.
@@roger_towny_jr She knew longer than his best friend and gave mark shit about running away when 1 he was fighting the robot and 2 if he was a normal human what did she want him to do run in and die? also he watched all his friends almost die and was almost killed by the second strongest thing in the universe but was more worried that he missed Amber's thing and also Amber also gave him shit for it? Im not saying Mark is the best or even a good boyfriend im saying that Amber is also terrible.
@@lvlHive She was never angry at him for continuously leaving her or not showing up for her things. She was angry because she knew what he was doing, yet he continued to lie to her and give her the lamest of excuses. At best its demeaning cause it implies he doesn't trust her. At worst, it's downright insulting. You expect her to to just be cool with that? He's literally treating her like a lesser being [just like his father taught him] and he doesn't even realize it.
You people expect her as a normal human to just instantly be able to empathize with everything a superhero is going through, even when she has no actual context for what it all entails. They show this really early on in the season with Red Rush and his Girlfriend, how there is so much that normal people just can't comprehend with that lifestyle, and they were both much more mature adults who were actually communicating, which Mark and Amber clearly were not.
You mentioned that Mark was also a terrible boyfriend, yet if they're both terrible, how come Mark gets none of the flack for his own poor decision making. Everyone just claims he did nothing wrong. If the excuse is because he's a 17 year old boy whose gonna make mistakes, well where does that sound familiar...? Oh yeah! Wasn't it Eve's misogynistic father the one who famously said, "All Guys Make Mistakes," implying that it's okay for guys to make mistakes, but not for women, which is exactly what the fanbase has decided I regards to Amber?
Katara's anger and resentment is completely justified. Sokka was largely able to heal because Katara filled that motherly role. She would feel resentment that he was able to 'forget' and heal so easily. While, Aang surviving a genocide is the more tragic event. How well did he know everyone at that temple? Sure, he grew up with those kids but how much time did Aang spend with them all individually (it would be impossible, obliviously). But, the Air nomads were the first nation to be wiped out. The Earth Kingdom and Water tribe were still fighting a century later. While you could also say that Monk Gyatso was the closest thing to a father figure Aang had, he was still just a mentor. Katara is again able to open up to Zuko; as they had already done earlier in Ba Sing Se. Again, as you point out; Katara's feelings are always set aside for everyone else's. When she is finally able to express herself more, its going to come out as anger, resentment, jealousy etc. Zuko doesn't push Katara to do anything! All he provides is support. He knows how to get Katara from point A to B. What she does when she gets there is up to her! Not Zuko, not Aang, not Sokka. While revenge or vengeance isn't always the best or healthiest answer. It can still serve a purpose. We can't always forgive. Look at Snape from HP, he is a cruel, abusive and awful person. That is largely due to how he was raised and his developing years being constantly bullied by others. Obviously, it's not okay for him to treat children that way; because of the power imbalance. With it also being the 'sins of the father' trope, regarding his relationships with Neville and Harry. Great video! While I'm personally more a fan of friendships in media than relationships (they can be just as rewarding and often more so). #Zutara
I think this episode is important for her central character. This show makes it a point to show the gray area of characters and doesn’t insult the audience that bad is bad and good is good. They are all very flawed characters of children in war. Although we know that Katara is a very kind and compassionate person, she has scars that have not been healed and we see each potential outcome and there are very deliberate episodes that focus on her like:
Imprisoned - Haru - someone rising above the fear and helplessness from generational oppression to find the strength to fight back and build community
Jet - Jet - Victim of war finds the will to fight back but enters the “there must be sacrifices made” and justifying morally wrong actions to fight back as a freedom fighter
Puppter Master - Although we know that blood bending is not inherently wrong, the victim becomes the perpetrator by hurting innocent people
And we see that in order to talk to Jet, she has to step into the dark as he’s standing in a shaded area. Those with trauma have to deal with their trauma in order not to give into darker impulses and we see the full spectrum from Haru to Jet to Hama.
One person who doesn’t acknowledge her scars that manifest through anger is Aang. He sees her through the flower filter and invalidates her anger by saying things like “she doesn’t mean it”, “she’s not blaming you”. Like she is not allowed to feel the whole range of human emotions and this sentiment doesn’t change throughout the show. Katara is a great character because she is flawed and part of her character arc is channeling and processing her anger and grief. And despite Katara embracing Aang's hurt and anger by offering hugs and words of comfort she doesn’t receive the same and is meant to self sooth.
The Souther Raiders is the journey that allows Katara to fully heal and grow as a person instead of letting the wound fester nor magically say she got better because we know this is central to her character. People with trauma all confront it different like deciding to avoid it, or visiting the place an event occurred, or seeing the perpetrator in trial, or confronting the childhood bully face to face. This is her character having the agency to make her own decisions whether they are right or wrong. And we know that inherently Katara is a good person but this is a journey she needs to take instead of platitudes and we see she overcomes it by facing it not ignoring it.
The person to actually help her heal from her trauma is Zuko, someone who initially used his anger to fuel his fire bending but someone who also made that emotional journey by himself. And although Iroh was the one to always morally guide him it was Zuko who had to be on his own to make his own decisions whether they were right or wrong to get to where he was and grow individually despite it being a more painful process than just listening to the words of his uncle. Someone who was the face of the enemy to Katara, helps her face her greatest demon and trauma and he sees her at her worst and doesn't invalidate her. Then through this, Katara is able to heal her own wounds and then see Zuko, not as a one dimensional villain but someone who has changed. And Katara’s forgiveness is meaningful to Zuko and gives him the strength to face his greatest regret by abandoning Iroh.
The amount of character development is amazing but yeah I guess she's just suPer Sad AbOut her mom dying and is annoying lol. I love that the cartoon doesn't just have her forgive the guy.
I relate to Katara too much. My mom took her own life when I was 4 and she was 4, mainly because I have murderous thoughts because I never got to see my mother but I loved her. I try my best to tolerate to hold my anger and feelings. I always help my friends with their emotions and nobody helps with mine. My pain and burdens are help on my back and nobody helps, they just watch.
People act as if human outbursts aren’t normal 😒
The main thing is her mother died saving her and for people not to understand that blows my entire mind.
Thank you for making this! I can’t stand the Katara slander. My girl didn’t go through everything she did to get this treatment. 😤❤️
the title of this video sounds like a perfect summary of one of my favorite hobbies in the ATLA fandom 😍
Upon first veiwing of the episode I was on Kataras side I knew she needed to confront the one who took her mother away
Southern Raiders is one of my friend and I's favorite episodes. It starts off with Katara being untrusting of Zuko and never reacting positively to anything he says, to a gentle hug at the end of the episode. And I don't only like this episode because I'm a Zutarian, I also like it because after two seasons of Katara talking about her mother and having emotions and trauma that are never worked through properly. Zuko, a person who struggles with controlling his emotions and has a lot of trauma, saw that Katara needed to work through her emotions and her trauma properly. He was the only one to support the idea of her getting revenge because he knew that it was the only thing that would bring her peace. He cares about her. But Katara just couldn't bring herself to kill the man who she has been so angry at for all these years, and after they go back to the Western Air Temple she is wondering if what she did was the right thing. I've read a book about fear in horseback riders, and even though it isn't fear, the book mentions that raising and then lowering your emotions is a good way to release them, which is what you see done with Katara. She gets so angry and emotional, so close to killing the man when she realizes she cannot bring herself to kill him, and her emotions are lowered again, causing a release. And even though she is doubting if her decisions were right, she's worked through her emotions and trauma in a healthy way and after Southern Raiders, she isn't always talking about her mother and her mental health is a lot better. :)
I’ve always loved and related to characters like Katara, you know the female characters who always get so much hate and are called annoying and bossy and naggy etc and it’s always fun to remember that if I were a fictional character in a story, men would just hate my guts 😀👍 I’d always heard the jokes about Katara and how much she goes on about her mum and her crying and such all the time but when I actually watched the show I was like…??????? And I feel that happens a lot with characters like her - I’ll see somebody make a statement about them and I just think huh? Did we watch the same show/play the same game/read the same book? How did you manage to interpret her to such an extreme?
I must wonder how these female characters would be received if they were men but I can’t think of any male characters that fit the part really? Maybe because being motherly in some way is often such an intrinsic part of the character type….
Enough rambling though - great video! :D
24:04 "Zuko brought out this rage in her and encouraged her to go on a bloodbath spree. [sic]"
Setting aside everything else that's wrong with that sentence, the premeditated murder of exactly _one person_ in _one location_ is almost the _exact opposite_ of a killing spree. I think the writer's getting a _teensy_ bit excited there, especially since that singular act of arguably justifiable homicide ultimately never came to pass.
Great that you made this video, i love that you talk about what katara needs and not what aang and sokka want for her. Can you talk about what they did to katara in korra? There are people who believe that "staying and take care of the kids and being a healer" was fine with her, as not all empowered women need to be fighters and blah blah blah. But please! She herself said that she wanted to fight and that she wanted to be part of the end of the war, they didn't even give her a city and not even a statue. I find it super unfair how they reduced her personality and character to "the good mother and wife of the avatar", she never wanted to be a healer.
There is nothing wrong with her being a mother and a healer but it was very clear in the series that she did not want that, she even went against the misogyny of her own culture and in the end she ended up accepting them as if nothing had happened? for the sake of aang ?. I do not understand people and do not try to justify that fact. And yes, I think Aang is a bad father xD.
And I would also love an analyze of the kataang scenes in the comic. When I saw the comic "love is a battlefield" I was shocked and only confirmed for me that Aang also has issues (According to what I saw, he attacked her directly with rage).
@SneezyReviews up up. please review the comics, katara in the comics makes my heart break with sadness
Yea the fandom kind of ruined the show for me (and some of my own friends lol) lets just say Katara and I have a similar story and the things people say about her feel like a personal attack
The next time I see a Katara hate comment, I'm sending them this video. All the slander is so unfair and the jokes about her grief are just so uncalled for...I've labeled The southern raiders as my favorite episode and all the hate is just making me love it even more.
Thank you for your beautifully thought out and poignant review! It really sums up all the thoughts I've had but hadn't quite strung together yet. I think a big difference between Sokka's and Aang's losses was that their void didn't stay empty. Not only did Katara lose her mom (and honestly kinda lost her dad not much later when he went to war), but she had to become her mom. No one really did that for her. She became Sokka's mom (filling the void Kya left) and the Gaang became Aang's family after he lost the Airbenders. Not to say that they didn't feel grief, but they also weren't left empty, so to speak, in the same way she was. Katara was also there in the moment that she lost her mother. I don't remember where Sokka was but he wasn't that close to Kya's murder I believe, and Aang was separated by the loss of his people by decades. It was almost like Katara was the closest to where the bomb went off and didn't have someone to put her back together. She did that herself while holding others up. She also saw the man's face, his eyes, heard his voice, and knew what he did. One person did that, in her mind, even though he was part of the Fire Nation. Aang just had the Fire Nation and maybe specifically Ozai/Sozin to blame but everyone kinda hated them. Katara's righteous anger had one true target.
even though this show is a third person point of view telling of the story it feels as though we are mostly watching this show through Aang's POV. like, most of what we see of Katara is from Aang's view. you know, the angelic, perfect caretaker who is always so kind and patient and understanding. i find it incredibly telling that the one episode centered entirely around Katara, essentially from her POV, is one of the few episodes where Katara *isn't* perfect. she's not very patient, she's not always kind, but she does still understand. Aang seeing Katara in her flawed glory and not liking when she snaps is incredibly telling of how he sees her and how he treats her.
I love this. Your rebuttals were on point and while fandom opinion as a whole is hard to define, you do a good job of pulling together threads of common arguments. I'm a little curious if there is anything you would change about TSR?
Ah, I thought I replied to this comment but I somehow posted the reply to a different comment, so dumb lol -.-
Copy-pasting:
I suppose that depends on what you're trying to accomplish. There are ways which I think the writing in ATLA, overall, while already excellent, could still have been better; I go into some of those ideas in my big Zutara video. Most of my opinions on how TSR could have been written better to strengthen x or y tie into my vision for ATLA as a whole. I'm going to be making a video at some point on what I think the biggest missed opportunity in ATLA was in terms of storytelling; I'll go into some more depth there. It isn't directly related to TSR but it would have impacted the course of ATLA's final arc, including the writing in TSR (probably). That's as much detail as I'll give for now :)
@margeryojije7862 the deadline to appear in my video is long past, sorry about that xx
This is one of my favorite moments from Katara, as well as the most heart-wrenching IMO. I had no idea people were trippin about it.
omg yes so like i just think about how memes at first are funny like katara touching her necklace every time she talks about her mother was an observation i could laugh at... until it wasnt funny anymore. it reaches the point where it just takes away all meaning it ever had and thats kind of a problem i ran into recently in another community (this character's friend got slain by a god so they memed him by saying he just wanted to get crushed by her thighs because hes a cultured simp. like at least to me, that was one of the biggest things to set off the revolution bc the god is a tyrant. it reached the point where ppl were ignoring that was a really important piece in the story) and wow i didnt even notice some of the misogyny in the show.
also i do wish there was a hardcover of Dangerous Books for Girls to shut people down violently cause i wouldve very much liked that
Absolutely loved this video as I did the zutara one! I’d personally love for you to explore Alta more the way you interpret it really interests me and I’d really enjoy more ❤️
“Stop doing Katara dirty. We already have enough sequel material that does it already.” 😂
But yeah. The way Katara’s grief and righteous anger are treated is disappointing, but not at all surprising. To be completely honest, the fanbase has issues with misogyny and racism/colorism that sorely need to be addressed. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the fair-skinned, male protagonist, Aang, is given a pass for his awful treatment toward Katara and Toph in The Desert because he was hurting, while, Katara is never allowed to live her words to Sokka down…Even when what she said wasn’t necessarily false and it wasn’t out of the blue. Sokka tried to suggest that, because they shared the same mother and he didn’t feel the need to avenge Kya’s death, Katara should also move past it. So, she rejected that. Katara never said that Sokka didn’t love Kya *as much* as Katara did, just that his love for her and the impact of her loss was simply different, which is true. Just a few episodes prior, she heard Sokka admit that he had trouble remembering their mother’s face and how his maternal love for Kya was able to be reborn into Katara. Unfortunately, she doesn’t have the luxury of repressing that day in the way that he does. Not when the image of her mother’s charred body was probably etched into her memory, and she had to live with the burden of knowing that her existence itself is the legacy of her mother’s sacrifice.
Exactly. Not to mention the reason she saw that was because her mother was protecting her as the last waterbender. Her trauma and pain are just vastly different in comparison to her brother.
Your right but I don't think this has anything to do with racism or colorism. It would make no sense in a show like this. It more has to do with her character that was portrayed and I feel like those people want her to be perfect and not have any flaws so when they see flaws they crap on her. They view her through rose tinted glasses just like Aang does. But when so strays away from the way Aang sees her they get angry.
@@alices8660 I mean, racism/colorism is possible in any series where the characters are from different races and have different skin tones. And it’s not always conscious. Though, I do also agree with your overall point, when Katara steps out of unrealistic mold that Aang/fans have set for her, she gets demonized
Also the fact that kya was wearing the necklace when she died...(this is just a speculation) meaning little Katara probably went in the hut in shock and took off the necklace from her burnt body..
I think your comment about characters getting passes should be aimed at Zuko and Sokka. Those two can do absolutely no wrong in the eyes of the fandom.Fandom. At the very least, I've seen many harsh critiques on Aang's character.
Someone posted a comparison of all the guys reacting to Katara talking about her mother's death and Aang is the only one to not only not say I'm sorry, but immediately make it about himself and his loss. I really try not to read sexism into everything but these takes are just unbelievably twisted. I miss Elisabeth Welch's writing.
Wooooow! Good point ! Never think abt that ! How ? I’m disappointed of myself 😭 Zuko, Haru, Jet they all said « I’m sorry » but Aang ……
@Sunday Girl i think that you didn’t get the right comment ?
But anyway, you said that he want to stop her to murder yon rah but did Katara said she would actually kill him ? Revenge isn’t automatically murder. It’s just at the end that Katara said she actually want to kill Yon rah not before when she was confronting Aang. So did Aang perceive her bad ?
Anyway, all I know is that he impose his own way to deal with trauma to katara whereas all ppl do NOT deal the same way with it.
Aang deal with trauma with forgiveness.
Katara deals with trauma with revenge.
Of course the monk that he his wouldn’t understand this. But saying that isn’t slandering him o_O ?????
@Sunday Girl but EVEN it’s always Katara who his the emotional support of the group (especially Aang, she’s VERY motherly with him) but she is RARELY support emotionally at return.
I can’t remember scene where it’s Aang who put a hand in katara’s shoulders to confort her. Or I can remember a few but maybe I’m wrong, it just didn’t really come in my mind automatically. No lie.
And it is not a Aang « slandering » or « a misrepresenting of the situation » to acknowledge that. It’s a fact. The emotional support isn’t equal. Period.
But That’s doesn’t make Aang a HATEFUL, BITTER, DIABOLICAL character don’t worry 😂. He’s a child after all. Like all of them tho.
Btw sorry for my English I’m not anglophone 🥲
@@milka9164 exactly !!!!
@Sunday Girl Its canon that aang did'nt respond with sympathy while hearing Katara's mother's death while every other love interest of hers did. Like..its a fact. Also, It's actually Aang who thinks that she wants to kill yon rha, not katara. He assumes the worst of her automatically... Katara wanting to face yon rha is no different than her protecting the fire nation village and saving earth kingdom prisoners. I would even say that he was the one who planted this idea on her head. Katara had no concrete plans on what to do with yon rha( that's why she talks to him first) Her main goal was to find him.
And zuko understands more than anybody, why? bcz he firsthand knew from experience how much relief it can bring to confront the source of your trauma ie his confrontation with ozai, who was responsible for his mother's disappearance. Like he knew that it worked for him, thats why he suggested that to katara.
katara was completely rational IMO and could’ve handled it worse all things considered she was quite mature abt it. ppl need to stfu and allow victims of trauma to express their emotions 🖤
I COMPLETELY AGREEEEEE. Thank you for another VIDEO!!! Your words are gospel!
I can't understand why people compare traumas. "That trauma is worse than this one" if you don't have the tools to comb through and deal with the trauma that's what makes it worse not the "severity" of the trauma itself. I don't think you should compare shit because if it effects you it effects you! No shame in that, just learn to cope and really process everything.
I think people compare Katara's trauma because she literally does the same to Sokka (and she never apologized to him for her words about his relationship to their mother!).
I neither love or hate Katara. I just trying to explain people's point of view.
@@Idkidc2173 well it was right after he did it to her first, we can argue two wrongs don’t make a right but with this in mind I think the burden of being patient and supportive and understanding would lie upon Sokka given how right then Katara was the one being open about her trauma and was clearly upset at the time.
If anything people should be pissed at Sokka for being so dismissive while having little excuse considering he’s of sound emotional state, but instead people get pissy at Katara just because her words were harsher
Hoo boy! As a Naruto fan, I don't know how many times I've had to repeat this.
@@firefly5934
Oh my good lord, yes! Anti Sasuke fans are... a different breed.
Wow, this was one of my favorite atla episodes as a kid, so it's sort of heartbreaking to find out how a lot of people reacted to this episode 😶
Toph was always my favorite character in ATLA (not counting Iroh, everybody's favorite is Iroh) while growing up, but after watching it front to back, and getting to see every episode as an adult, I think this one episode alone turned Katara into my favorite. So many stories in all mediums fail in the "revenge bad" department. Right now this is the only one I can think of where I didn't feel like the main character was dumb for not killing the villain in the end, and the writers were just faking some pretentious moral standing. Southern Raiders understands victims like Katara, and how there is no solution, no answer or action that can be taken to fix what happened. No justice can be done to make things "right" or bring sufficient suffering to him to make things "fair". The episode teases the idea that she has two choices, kill or forgive, and she says no to both. People who don't get it just don't understand, either you get it or you don't.
Man, Zuko was the only one to understand that she needed to make that choice on her own
Its finally here
continually obsessed with your atla analysis
Commenting before watching the video because I want to squeal about my excitement that Sneezy made another Avatar video and its about my girl Katara.
I want to say that people who hate or mock Katara for The Southern Raiders, aren't very observant and don’t really know how to analyse such meaningful episode and grief like this.
Now DON'T get me wrong I'm not trying to be bitter or feels superior, it was haaard for me to understand this too.
(It just my personal opinion).
Of course what Katara said to Sokka was wrong but don't forget that for katara, this journey was her only chance, Zuko give her a chance to face her trauma.
Their mothers Death. Kaya's killer's.
But when Sokka was trying to stop her, she lashed out at him (again, it's was wrong, ikr but in the other hand it was realistic and understandable when you think abt that).
She had seen the BURNED BODY of her mother at young age without forget that as a kid, she feels guilty of their mother's loss bc Kya died for protect Katara THE LAST WATERBENDER OF THE SWT.
So, in this moment, it was impossible for katara to not get revenge and she wouldn’t let anybody stop her to get revenge even her big brother that she love.
She lashed out. (Btw dO yoU ReAlly ThiNK that Katara didn'tapologiize off screen to Sokka ???? C'mon guys, that's so Katara! Lol).
Sometimes I feel like, they just want to hate katara to hate her. Like ....... No real reason lol, smh.
Majority Atla fandom reactions to this amazing episode were really disappointing. Like such a meaningful and important episode for Katara Arc, development and grief dismiss like this????? Oh gosh.
Btw thank you for your Excellent video Sneezy.
Your analysis was very interesting, absorbing and intelligent ! Our girl KATARA don't deserve hate. Just for that one thing they dare completly forgot how supportive and caring Katara as been for the Gaang in 3 long Season, Bruh. It's incomprehensible and it's a shame
GREAT ANALYSIS GIRL !!!!!
I cant believe people misunderstood this episode so much.
This is such a beautiful analysis! I subbed! Would love to see more of these! ❤️
Yeh. Everyday you do good to others, talk nicely, feel other's pain, give shoulder to other when they need, show love and respect without showing your own pain.....
But....... One day you act roughly, show your pains, then other will tell you how bad you were. Your pain is nothing compare to them and get rid of it. Is it that easy? 😢😢😢 Poor bady Katara. Thanks to Zuko to give her the best life changing field trip ❤️❤️❤️
I didn't like Katara growing up because I most heavily identified with Toph. I saw myself at odds with more feminine women and felt repulsed by Katara because of bad experiences with bullying from more feminine girls. That wasn't fair to Katara though. As I've gotten older and asked myself "what does it mean to be a woman" I've found myself thinking about Katara a lot. She's strong in all the ways a man can be, but she's also strong in the ways men traditionally aren't. She's calm when the stakes are high, patient when someone is unreasonable, nurturing when others are in pain. She's the backbone of the group, holding it up. She is compassionate and fights for those who cannot fight for themselves. She is able to face the man who killed her mother and, bacause she is an empath, realize just how pathetic and undeserving of her compromising her moral fiber for revenge he is. She is the embodiment of femininity I hope to be.
Also, going to get on my Zutara horse here: this is why her and Zuko work. Zuko was the only one capable of facing her difficult emotions with grace. He gives her the room to fully be herself. All her empathy and pain mixed together.
I relate to this pretty strongly myself, minus the fact that I didn't necessarily dislike Katara but I definitely identified so much more with Toph that I honestly overlooked Katara quite a bit until probably the final season 😅
The episode where she gets revenge is my favorite. I didn’t understand why everyone hated her. She is so loving and such a good person. And then she shows a flaw and they gang up on her.
OMG!!! You just express everything (!) i always thought. THANK YOU, just thank you. Internet needed empathy like yours towards katara