Chambon: It's correct use and adjustment
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
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Will Faerber from Art2Ride discusses the correct use of the french stretching device called the chambon, which is particularly helpful for beginners with extremely hollow or sway backed horses such as in the retraining of saddlebreds.
If I have a horse that is very difficult, as i do with them all, as soon as I see some improvement, I stop! The hardest thing about learning to train horses is learning not to over work them, less is usually more!
In response to Hillary Ansell: No, in fact the only way to really get a horse off it’s forehand and in self carriage, is by developing the topline and the only way to do that without damaging the horse in the process is to get it working over it’s back by stretching the neck forward and down to allow the back to engage. Remember, no matter how high a horse’s head is, if the horse is hollow in the back it is on the forehand. Don’t be fooled by high knee action either that only means the horse is pulling with it’s shoulders instead of engage through the back and lifting the enter horse and rider higher into the air. That’s why it feels so amazing the first time you feel a horse’s back up, it’s like flying! Get your horse working over it’s back and the head and neck will just naturally begin to raise as the horse develops correctly.
How much did you tighten it up the first time, in inches? Also, in watching the video, it looks like you did about a total of 15 minutes of trotwork just on the left rein. Would you alternate to the other rein the next day? I was taught to lunge equal time in both directions (unless you are trying to correct an imbalance, in which case you offset it a little bit more to the less-developed side). How do you do it? thank you!
Thats crazy how immediately once the horse started to relax, he started getting suspension in the trot...
I am a barrel racer and this beleave it or not will so help my horses get stronger in the back. Thankyou! Amazing when you go outside of your circle the tools and knowledge you will find.
Yes you can canter the horse in the chambon but remember if your horse has a bad canter, you need to strengthen the horse's topline first in the trot. Generally, the horse builds muscle in the trot and wind in the canter so if you have a bad canter don't canter, trot and when the horse is strong enough his canter will suddenly be much improved.Try the canter only once a week for a while.. Remember if the horse comes behind the vertical with it's face, the Chambon may be too short.
Hi, I have been using a chambon with my horse and have made tremendous progress getting him to strech over his back at the trot. He will now follow contact down while ridden. I was initially told not to canter him in this setup.
He doesn't seek any kind of contact at the canter, just puts his head up, braces, and will go around like that until he is tired, at least with side reins. Can I use the chambon at the canter to help him learn to relax his back?
I would say a happy medium of the two, They are all a little different. I would say, go at whatever speed he can stretch and when you get that then try to push him on. Often I find that very stiff horses can only stretch in the walk at first and if that is the case with your horse, by all means, do lots of walk in the stretch, they will get stronger in time and be able to stretch in the trot and even the canter, but it takes time!
Is there a huge difference between the chambon and the neck stretcher?
Zoolander is darling! He makes the cutest expressions, what a camera ham. :)
HI, the side reins should be all you need. Once again, we use the chambon on very hollow horses. It will not hurt the horse in any way if you follow my instructions if you want to use the chambon and if your horse doesn't begin stretching into the contact within a few weeks, I'd suggest it.
Once the horse develops correct contact with the bit, we can develop contact with the riders hands by lunging in this manner and develop the horse's correct contact with the outside rein.
Would you suggest starting with a chambon on a brand new horse that has just been broken in, or should I use side reins instead (as he is not particularly hollow backed and doesn't have a high head carriage)?
I've recently started using a chambon on my TB gelding and I must say it's been excellent so far! The horse in question is still a little green and had only done Polo and a lead pony at the races, so going around hollow was all he knew. But lunging in the chambon is really helping! Especially since he is quiet happy to sit on the bit, so the poll pressure has worked wonders in getting him to stretch! Your video was brilliant to help explain how to fit it and make sure its use correctly!
Hi, what is the reason for lunging directly off the bit ring as opposed to lunging from a lunge cavasson? Thankyou
Yes, use the chambon.
They are just another form of draw reins and serve only to pull the horse's head down. Like all these devices, if you really know how to ride you wouldn't need them and if you don't, you're only going to ultimately create more problems in the horse then you had to begin with as you will probably end up over flexing the horse at the third or fourth vertebra. I googled vienna reins and almost every picture that came up the horse was over flexed!
I tightened the Chambon only a few holes each time until I got the right length to engage the contact at the pole. Of course you would do the same thing on the other side. It may take more time or it may take less but I go until I get relatively the same stretch on each side. Once in a while I run into a horse that is very one sided and with those you have to except that it's not going to be the same on both side for a while.
what do you think about lunging in a round pen without a lunge line? is there any difference when it comes to using the chambon?
I like round pens and they are a great place to start working horses on the lunge.
Hello Will, what are the pros and cons of attaching the lunge line straight to the inside bit ring or say through the inside bit ring, up over the poll and to the outside bit ring. I've also seen people lunging by running the line through the inside bit ring, under the chin and attaching it to the outside ring. However I've heard that that method can cause the horse to hollow his back. Which method do you prefer?
If
the horse is good lunging, that is, not trying to drag me around the
arena, I would just attach to the inside ring, if I have side reins or
chambon connected to be sure that I can’t pull the bit through the
horse’s mouth. Other wise, I would go over the top of the poll, never
through under the chin as it puts too much pressure on the outside ring
of the bit.
Thank you that's really helpful!
I'm confused as to the mechanics of the device. The line runs through a pulley at the poll then attaches to the bit, therefore raising the head would result in pressure on the bit in an upwards direction, thus encouraging raising of the head.. while at the same time applying downwards pressure to the poll.. a complete contradiction. The rig I use (I have no idea if it even has a name, it was taught to me many years ago using a simple piece of rope.. although I usually use draw reins for the convenience of the snaps.. and simply called a "head setter"), runs over the back, between the front legs, to the bit (or cavesson) and then to the poll. Therefore pressure is applied in a downward direction to the poll while remaining neutral at the bit unless they throw their noses very far out in which case the pressure would be back in the direction of the riders hands. After only a few uses the horse is not only building proper muscle but will lower their head to bit/nose pressure as well.
My mare is slightly downhill and I am curious that a neck flexor or a chambon will encourage her to be on the forehand? Is that true?
I have started lunging with the chambon which is helping but my question is my horse is lazy and doesn't like to move forward. when I really urge him on he will move out but his head will go up and hollow out. When he is slower (not tracking up) he starts to stretch a little. should I let him go slower if he is comfortable stretching at that speed or push him forward?
Another Great video!! Had a good dressage rider ride my driving horse yesterday and worked him to loosen his croup/sacro area where he was very stiff and bracing in the bit not being loose enough to get under himself. This will help me to help working that area.
Perfect timing. Thanks!
Thank you so much! he loves to stretch out in the walk and is slow starting to stretch in the trot :) We will keep at it!
Hello Will ,
I watched a couples videos and really like your stretching technique and I would like to put it to practice. My mare and I started with the "false frame" training because she is really strong so I was told to pull against her and contain her in "the frame" instead of teaching her to use her back muscle. But now that I found you( and changed trainer ) I am excited to start again ! Can I achieve the exercises in a bitless bridle(dr cook model ) ? Thanks in advance !
+Karo-Lee Shields you can but you will never develop the kind of feel that enables a more
refined level of communication between you and your horse. Remember,
bits are not harmful to the horse, hands are! You can do just as much
damage to the soft cartilage in the horse’s nose with a bitless bridle
as you can to the bars of the mouth with a bit. Remember, the correct
contact with the horses mouth is just the weight of the reins when the
horse has been correctly developed.
I don't want to make the circle too small as my horse is very young at only 3. But I was wondering. Would this be a useful aid for an unbroken horse or should I just use side reins until she's backed at 4?
If you are just starting a horse you should not need the chambon, the side reins should be your first choice. Only in severe cases, like and extremely hollow back would you work a young horse in the chambon.
Would I be correct in saying that the side reins are also fairly unnecessary in most cases? I don't really condone the use of any training aids that restrict and I've only ever once used side reins and found even with them extremely loose they still restricted the horse.. I got a much better stretch without them, with just a lunge line and a cavesson and I'm beginning to get a lovely stretch loose lunging with absolutely nothing on the horse. I think unless the horse is extremely messed up from incorrect training it shouldn't really need side reins at all.
hannah grace i agree completely and in my videos of starting young horses you will
see how quickly they learn to stretch. Unfortunately, when horses have
been ridden hollow for years they simply have lost all muscle memory of
correct movement, if they ever had it to begin with, as so many horses
today are raised in much to small of areas for them to develop as nature
intended. So the side reins and especially the chambon can be very
helpful in these cases.
Hello, I hope you will have time to answer my comment, i have a green horse which i've been lunging on the cavesson and she stretches from time to time on her own. I tried putting loose enough side reins so that when she stands with the head in a normal position, there's very little pressure applied to the reins. The problem is that, when she starts to trot in them she just starts throwing her head in the air. She knows about the contact for i've done some driving with her and she doesn't chomp on the bit when it's in her mouth, she accepts it ( i use a double broken crurved bit ).
What seems to fit her better is using two lunges on a lunging girth and setting them through the lowest loop and then to the mouth, the outside lunge doesn't go behind the rump but over her back and into my hand, so they act like side reins only that the pressure applied is not that resistant, because my hands can move with her, also it seems that if i keep my outside lunge with little consistent pressure but vibrate the inside lunge, the horse seems to stretch more into the contact.
What do you think of this method? I never saw you do this in any video, so maybe i'm just fooling myself, but to my eye, her hind legs are reaching well under her body but she's a natural good mover so it can be tricky sometimes.
Deborah Faoro I did a whole series on ground driving starting with a horse that had
never been working in them before. Check it out and see how what you
are doing compares. Ground driving is great if you are good at it and
very bad is you are not. Send me a video and I can give you a more
specific answer
How often should you lunge the horse with the chambon, and can you ride with it or not recomended? what do you think about the neck stretcher and the Pessoa system?
+Juan B. Ledgard I use only the chambon as it works in exactly the right way. As to the
Pessoa rig, if you know how to lunge you won’t need it and if you don’t,
you will end up with more problems then you started.
i have a question about the canter or the western lope. I am a western rider with a fairly green horse. He can walk and jog perfectly and can lope but it's choppy and off balance, i am still sort of in the starting stages of starting him at loping and was wondering if there is a trick to gaining balance for both myself and my horse. i know that my balance throws him off and causes us to fall apart. Any suggestioins? that would be wonderful thank you so much!
If your canter is bad, do more trot work to build the horse’s topline and you will see the canter improve all by itself. By teaching your horse to stretch into the contact you will be teaching him to balance himself and you will have to improve your own balance because you won’t be holding onto his mouth! That is the beauty of the classical system it improves both horse and rider!
Thank you! That is very helpful. I appreciate your reply and I will give it a try!