More to ponder...Loki appears to be confusing as the history of his character has come from disparate sources and separated by time...I will need to watch it again...tomorrow as it's late...However...Snorri... unfortunately he had been trained in the Roman System...where they would exploit the local beliefs so as to be useful to the church and rulers...
@@ChristophersMum Thank you for watching, and yes, Loki has had more written about him than any other god such is the confusion. And I don't think many give Snorri enough doubt about what he writes, there is some clear "Christianisation" of the stories in the Prose Edda.
Oh man. I remember that paper from JTOR about Svyatogor. (Pronounced Sv-yah-to-gor. ) Always impressed at the stuff you dig up. Svyatogor is an interesting figure. His name actually means "Holy Mountain." If you ever read the epic song of Svyatogor, it sounds like a eulogy to paganism. He basically lies down in a coffin with his name on it, and breathes his "strength" into the Christian hero Illya Muromets. So symbolically, the knight Illya has the torch passed to him by the giant Svyatogor, who basically lies down and dies voluntarily. That's how you get a Christian knight with the strength of a famous giant. It's considered by Russian scholars to be kind of a transitional point from the Pre-Christian to medieval epic tradition.
It makes sense for Loki and Odin to be blood brothers as they were much the same and it would be easy to see them encountering each other while both on a quest for some new wisdom and finding in each other an equal in interests and abilities and forging a lifelong friendship.
@@davidjuby7392 No, just Hoenir and Loki. These three have been a reoccurring trio time and time again in many stories. In Skaldskaparmal, the trio Odin, Hoenir, and Loki encounters a Jotun named Thjazi, Skadi's father. In Volsunga, Odin, Hoenir, and Loki were traveling when they came across an otter named Otr, killed it, went to Hreidmar's dwelling, realized that Otr is Hreidmar's son, got arrested, then Loki went to get them out of the predicament. In the Loka Tattur, this trio helped a family protect a young boy from a Giant. In Voluspa, Odin, Hoenir and Lothur helped create the first humans. Although in Gylfaginning, the two gods who helped create the first humans, Hoenir and Lothur, were replaced by Villi and Ve, who are the names of Odin's brothers, with Odin being oldiest Vili being second, and Ve being youngest. There are very strong evidence that indicated that Lothur and Loki are connected, and likely are the same people, and since this story equates Hoenir and Lothur with Vili and Ve, that would indicate that Vili and Ve might be Hoenir and Loki, making them Odin's brothers. There's also that time when the brothers Odin, Vili, and Ve slew Ymir, and are described as the first three Aesirs who founded Valhalla. Although an evidence against Loki being Ve is in Lokasenna, when Loki said that "Vili and Ve slept with Frigg whenever Odin is away" as an insult to Frigg. Another evidence against Loki is when it is said that Loki's parents are a Jotun named Farbauti and an Aesir named Laufey, while Odin, Vili, and Ve are the children of an Aesir named Borr and a Jotun named Bestla.
@@othamneil8958 "Although an evidence against Loki being Ve is in Lokasenna, when Loki said that "Vili and Ve slept with Frigg whenever Odin is away" as an insult to Frigg. Another evidence against Loki is when it is said that Loki's parents are a Jotun named Farbauti and an Aesir named Laufey, while Odin, Vili, and Ve are the children of an Aesir named Borr and a Jotun named Bestla." It's not just "evidence", the whole idea that Loki is one of Odin's brothers is obviously stupid to begin with.
Thanks for watching and all your support, they'll hopefully be another Loki video in a couple of weeks that will just mean you will want to ask even more questions! :)
great videos, I have never heard of loki referred to as utgarthaloki. if you read the khandogya upanishads verse 3 they describe the udgitha or utgitha. I believe it describes almost perfectly to what you are explaining
It's often impressive how myths of similar roots may become way different later, especially in modern culture. The thought to connect Loki and Svyatogor seems striking and unexpected. If you think of their original chtonic nature you'll came up with that it's not that surprising and they have much in common. But in the modern culture they look quite opposite. Skinny cunning handsome red or black haired god girls like, and stone-like gray-bearded overly-old symbol of boring corny Russian patriotism (well, not as much as the heir of his powers Ilya Muromets but still).
Our information on Loki is very very limited, and we're not even sure what to make of the name; there are guesses as to what it could mean, and one guess is as good as the next. But one of those guesses is that it means "entangler", and as such it could be an epithet more than a name. Loki has an association with nets; but what's more, an "entangler" could be a trickster in general. Again, this is guesswork. As for Utgard-Loki, he's a trickster for sure, so maybe he's merely "the trickster of the outer garden" (or "outer yard" or, less literally, "wilderness")?
In Faroese cobwebs are called "Loki's nets" and in Swedish craneflies are called "Loki spiders". So perhaps the name "entangler" is a reference to spiders?
Loki is not a trickster god, he's not even a god. He does far less tricks than Odin for example. "In Faroese cobwebs are called "Loki's nets" and in Swedish craneflies are called "Loki spiders". So perhaps the name "entangler" is a reference to spiders?" The word for some spiders in Finnish is lukki. That's another clue that either Loki is a spider, has something to do with spiders or has something to do with what spiders do or maybe that he was tied like in a cocoon.
From my understanding of your videos, it seems like Odin and Loki don't really fit into the Indo-European family of gods. Could they be from an alternate/older source? And later combined with other gods / stories from the Indo-European tradition?
To be honest very few of the gods found in the Old Norse mythology fit with the Indo-European pantheon, and so I agree, are probably a remnant of an older religion and repositioned to fit into a new concept.
I love how I always learn NEW facts about mythology that is absent from other mythology history online. Your channel is great! Is there anywhere online to learn more, especially the history you hint at around 11:46, esp the more ancient germanic like tales (pre viking age)?
Loki resembles Tantalus (Greek myth) : Loki was bound to a rock (by the entrails of one or more of his sons, according to some sources) as punishment, thus in many ways resembling the Greek figure Tantalus.
I have Loki questions! I heard Jackson Crawford talking in a video and mentioned that Loki and Lodur are the same person. Do you agree with that, and is that something you could elaborate on in a video? Second question; I know he’s described as “fair” in the myths and some have taken that to mean “blonde/red haired” and some “handsome” since the word can go either way in English. Do you have an opinion about that? I would assume that knowing the meaning of the original word would probably help clear it up (unless the original word has the same double meaning, I suppose). Thank you so much! I always love hearing about Loki, so anything you want to discuss about him is always welcome! And sorry if you’ve already discussed either of these topics, I’m going to search through your videos now and add any Loki-related videos to my watch list 😊 Thanks!!
Fascinating topic! I'd never considered Loki in this context before, but is it possible to infer a common etymology between the concept of Loki as a lord of an underworld, and Lucifer?
The etymology of Loki is a challenge, with no one agreeing, and so it would only be guesswork if we said something. But I agree that there of hints of Lucifer there.
dude... you should write a book about your research. i already have watched ur videos but i needed watch all again in order. now i'm thinking about to write somethings like a study book kkkk a lot of informatio
I am writing three different books explaining this, but they are two or three years away. But I will keep producing videos until then as there are gaps I need to fill, and stories I want to tell.
I can, although you may want to watch Finding the Oldest Gods video I released a few weeks ago as it will introduce you to the Vanir. Thank you for watching, and taking the time to comment.
I was quoting my sources, I believe this may have been Liberman. But I can't find anything that references this specifically as being of Rus origin. Would you let me know your reference so I can read more about this? Many thanks
1. Where did you find the reference between (Utgarda)Loki and Światogor? The latter is quite mysterious figure in slavic mythology (or rather in russian folklore sources, to be more specific). He sacrifices himself and passes part of his might to bogatyr Ilia Muromiets, which is sometimes considered as embodiment of Perun. Generally giants in slavic myths are quite rare and i also wonder what was common root (if there was any) to indoeuropean giants (Gigantes, Hekatonheires, Cyclopes, Jotuns, Fomorians, etc..). I'm watching your stuff chronologically (not all, only pagan / I.E.), but if you didn't make a video on this matter yet, it could be quite interesting. 2. I don't want to be rude and if it seems like, i apologize. Sometimes it's hard to understand you. To me (native Polish) you sound like an Englishman trying to sound like American with sometimes scandinavian accent ;). As your diction seems to struggle with some small difficulties it handicaps my ability to understand everything properly. In the topic that we're all here for, sometimes one word can change the meaning of the whole sentence, or even greater part. Auto-generated captions ("welcome to kraken ford") sometimes help but also can do more harm than my poor ability to get into details of your spoken word. So... it'd be much appreciated if you could try to speak a bit clearer. Or maybe look at those auto-generated captions and fix them in few places (idk if that's even possible) or maybe ask some younger chap, to make proper subtitles. Anyway thank you for your job. Sława!
Hi, I now manually create all my captions, and so these should be a lot better to follow in more recent videos. As for that specific reference, I cannot recall, it may have been from a reference Liberman cited. I would highly recommend Prayers and Laughter if you're interested in understanding Nordic mythology more.
@@Crecganford I try to understand slavic mythology through nordic and all other indoueropean mythologies. And than to understand proto-indoeurpean mythology, as it turned out later
Seems that tricksters are always just not real brothers with the king or god with whom they interact. Odin and Loki are bloodbrothers, Hermes and Apollo are halfbrothers, Arthur and Cay are stephbrothers, ...
This is a random one but have you played ac valhalla at all even if your against games just exploring it is fascinating if you are interested in norse/anglo saxon england the lebel of historical accuracy they use is immense
@@Crecganford ah yes i can imagine you dont get much time for it with all the videos and research alone. havent played civ myself but from a quick google reminds me of total war which i am a big fan of so il have to give it a go when the kids have grown abit and i can play again 🤣🙌
I'm just reading a book by Yvonne Bonntain, who made her PhD Thesis on Loki. So far (I'm half through it) I got the impression that Loki is a completly unclear charakter, and his attributes are always negative definitions: He is not solely evil, he is not solely a trickster, he might actually not be a 'he' but a 'she' or non-binary, Thor, Odin and Freyr might somtimes use Loki as Scapegoat, Loki is a god (Æsir) , but no one worships him (i.e. no cult around Loki)... piuh.
Loki is not the god of fire, he is the son of the frosty giant Farbadi and Laufej. The frost giants are from the Nifelheim land of ice, where the frost dragon lives Nidhog. Loki is the god of deception or mischief, but he has the origins of a frost giant. He is Odin's half-brother and they all belong to the family of the Jotun giants.
I agree with most of that, and I don't think I have said he is the god of fire per se, but he is definitely associated with fire, and I'll show why in the next video I'll do of him. The fact is there is also a lot about him we don't know for sure, but if I say something that is not certain I will try and say why I've inferred that.
Logi was a firegod/giant who formed a triad with Kari (wind) and Aegir (water/sea). Logi is prob. mistaken for Loki. Maybe because of Wagner's Nibelungen where Loge was a firespirit and trickster. Seems he combined both in his opera.
More to ponder...Loki in some ways appears to be as confusing as all the tales told about him tend to be confusing...I will need to watch the video again...perhaps tomorrow, as it's late...However... at times, just as you have to question Snorri's interpretation about Loki...and others...Unfortunately Snorri had been taught the Roman System...which was to rebrand the local belief system and to exploit them to fit the Roman way...
Loki is certainly a bit of a mystery, but then he is in far too many poems to make me feel he was a Xian insert, but I can see why people would think that.
In a way I feel connected to Loki. And in the series the Vikings, the character ‘Floki’ was very reminiscent of a Loki type character. Again, I identified with Floki, even though I’m a woman 👩🏼 😂
We are all capable of identifying with a character or person of another physical makeup, especially because there's always a little "female" in the "male" mind and a little "male" in the "female" mind. Think of it more like a spectrum, where one color slowly and evenly changed into another; it's impossible to say when the yellow is fully changed to orange or when the blue has totally turned to purple.
Also born over a century after the Icelandic conversion to Christianity. There were no pagans left to convert, except where the Teutonic Knights were converting by the sword, about in modern Estonia about 1475 miles (2374 km) away, as the crow flies.
Why do you brook 'use' Wothanaz when it was Wodinz in Proto-Norse and Wodanaz in Proto-Germanic. This why I believe the Wothu which you say is P.I.E to be incorrect as it wouldn't be a 'th' sound in that tongue... I'll go with Watenos to Wodanaz.
That is not a question I’ve been asked before, and I do not see a connection. What are you thinking when you ask the question? I’d be interested to know in case you’ve seen something I’ve missed. Thank you.
@@Crecganford hi! Thanks for replying and thanks for your incredibly inspiring content. So, so good. I'm afraid I'm a total amateur, so the etymological connection Loki/lug was the first thing that came to mind. In fact, I know nothing about Lug, and you don't seem to have made any videos about it? I would need to check elsewhere, but I did wonder if there was a connection between Lug and Wotan (Deus maximus) then there is a mercurial element to it which you seem to imply relates to Odin. But if Loki and Odin are related, then maybe it's there? The connection between Odin and Loki isn't clear, but could it be some kind of repressed divine twin thing? If so, thinking of the ins and outs, there could be a connection between Lug and Loki, maybe it splits off at a different time which would explain differences of other order, but similarity in at least name and possibly other factors.
Listening about Lugh, he is clearly old and his story has evolved a lot. Associated to Pushan - is that related to Purusha? Lots of old and basic elements in his story, with a lot of agricultural and pastoral elements as well as warriorship, indicating a lot of evolution. We could expect equivalent ins and outs for Norse myth. ruclips.net/video/hrLUdqtyxZk/видео.html
Ok, the video above pushes back, but I think it's silly. I mean, pre-pie is such a long time. The best comments I found on that link were: S.M. Mannix 1 yr ago So, within the Norse/Germanic mythos, Loki appears to be an alien god who was a hostage among the Vanir. Thus, it makes sense to me that if Lugh was the chief among the Celtic gods; then, the Germans would want to reframe Lugh as a trickster. Just as Wotan/Odin was seen as a trickster by the +ians. Thus, my read of Loki is as Germans trying to say the chief of the Gael's is a shady trickster among their Gods. So, if Lugh was parallel to Wotan/Odin within the religion of the Gaels, it stands to reason the Germans would reframe their mythos so that Lugh became Loki. The heroic god of the Celts becoming the A-hole foil of the German gods... because, 1000 years of +ianity has shown that Germans and Celts will fight over any minor difference in religion.
You mean he is associated with fire regardless of hearth or not, and not connected specifically to the hearth in a home, he is not regarded as a hearth spirit but generally a spirit of fire?
@@bedal2002 Hearths are often connected with fire, and so connected in that meaning, but not with hearth as in "the home". Whilst I have hinted at fire being connected with his children I can make a video to explain his potential origins, and why I think fire is the most plausible one in my opinion
Yes, please, that would be interesting! So he is not specifically connected to the hearth of a home, interesting. Was there another spirit or entity that had that role?
"Loki was the first gender neutral god altho he was referred to as a he , he was neither a he or a she or both lol" No, Loki was definitely a male spirit, who had a power to shape-shift. Stop trying inject your own ideology to it.
Do I make a video on the bad side of Loki, or his good side next?
Good please , as I only know of him as the trickster.
More to ponder...Loki appears to be confusing as the history of his character has come from disparate sources and separated by time...I will need to watch it again...tomorrow as it's late...However...Snorri... unfortunately he had been trained in the Roman System...where they would exploit the local beliefs so as to be useful to the church and rulers...
By the way...thank you for the video it was really interesting...more folk I've never heard of!!
@@littlebird619 Thanks for your continued support, and I think that will be the way to go, although it may create a lot of questions
@@ChristophersMum Thank you for watching, and yes, Loki has had more written about him than any other god such is the confusion. And I don't think many give Snorri enough doubt about what he writes, there is some clear "Christianisation" of the stories in the Prose Edda.
Oh man. I remember that paper from JTOR about Svyatogor. (Pronounced Sv-yah-to-gor. ) Always impressed at the stuff you dig up. Svyatogor is an interesting figure. His name actually means "Holy Mountain." If you ever read the epic song of Svyatogor, it sounds like a eulogy to paganism.
He basically lies down in a coffin with his name on it, and breathes his "strength" into the Christian hero Illya Muromets. So symbolically, the knight Illya has the torch passed to him by the giant Svyatogor, who basically lies down and dies voluntarily. That's how you get a Christian knight with the strength of a famous giant.
It's considered by Russian scholars to be kind of a transitional point from the Pre-Christian to medieval epic tradition.
It makes sense for Loki and Odin to be blood brothers as they were much the same and it would be easy to see them encountering each other while both on a quest for some new wisdom and finding in each other an equal in interests and abilities and forging a lifelong friendship.
Along with Hoenir, I suppose.
@@othamneil8958 I would imagine that there are a number of similarly inclined deities who would fit that bill
@@davidjuby7392 No, just Hoenir and Loki. These three have been a reoccurring trio time and time again in many stories. In Skaldskaparmal, the trio Odin, Hoenir, and Loki encounters a Jotun named Thjazi, Skadi's father. In Volsunga, Odin, Hoenir, and Loki were traveling when they came across an otter named Otr, killed it, went to Hreidmar's dwelling, realized that Otr is Hreidmar's son, got arrested, then Loki went to get them out of the predicament. In the Loka Tattur, this trio helped a family protect a young boy from a Giant. In Voluspa, Odin, Hoenir and Lothur helped create the first humans. Although in Gylfaginning, the two gods who helped create the first humans, Hoenir and Lothur, were replaced by Villi and Ve, who are the names of Odin's brothers, with Odin being oldiest Vili being second, and Ve being youngest. There are very strong evidence that indicated that Lothur and Loki are connected, and likely are the same people, and since this story equates Hoenir and Lothur with Vili and Ve, that would indicate that Vili and Ve might be Hoenir and Loki, making them Odin's brothers. There's also that time when the brothers Odin, Vili, and Ve slew Ymir, and are described as the first three Aesirs who founded Valhalla. Although an evidence against Loki being Ve is in Lokasenna, when Loki said that "Vili and Ve slept with Frigg whenever Odin is away" as an insult to Frigg. Another evidence against Loki is when it is said that Loki's parents are a Jotun named Farbauti and an Aesir named Laufey, while Odin, Vili, and Ve are the children of an Aesir named Borr and a Jotun named Bestla.
@@othamneil8958 I am going to go out on a limb here and guess that you have spent quite a bit of time researching Norse lore. Impressive.
@@othamneil8958 "Although an evidence against Loki being Ve is in Lokasenna, when Loki said that "Vili and Ve slept with Frigg whenever Odin is away" as an insult to Frigg. Another evidence against Loki is when it is said that Loki's parents are a Jotun named Farbauti and an Aesir named Laufey, while Odin, Vili, and Ve are the children of an Aesir named Borr and a Jotun named Bestla."
It's not just "evidence", the whole idea that Loki is one of Odin's brothers is obviously stupid to begin with.
Interesting. I always heard that the two Lokis were considered different characters by people who study Norse mythology.
Great yet more questions i have to ask and learn about loki . Thanks again for another amazing video brother 🖤💚
Thanks for watching and all your support, they'll hopefully be another Loki video in a couple of weeks that will just mean you will want to ask even more questions! :)
great videos, I have never heard of loki referred to as utgarthaloki. if you read the khandogya upanishads verse 3 they describe the udgitha or utgitha. I believe it describes almost perfectly to what you are explaining
It's often impressive how myths of similar roots may become way different later, especially in modern culture. The thought to connect Loki and Svyatogor seems striking and unexpected. If you think of their original chtonic nature you'll came up with that it's not that surprising and they have much in common. But in the modern culture they look quite opposite. Skinny cunning handsome red or black haired god girls like, and stone-like gray-bearded overly-old symbol of boring corny Russian patriotism (well, not as much as the heir of his powers Ilya Muromets but still).
Our information on Loki is very very limited, and we're not even sure what to make of the name; there are guesses as to what it could mean, and one guess is as good as the next. But one of those guesses is that it means "entangler", and as such it could be an epithet more than a name. Loki has an association with nets; but what's more, an "entangler" could be a trickster in general. Again, this is guesswork. As for Utgard-Loki, he's a trickster for sure, so maybe he's merely "the trickster of the outer garden" (or "outer yard" or, less literally, "wilderness")?
In Faroese cobwebs are called "Loki's nets" and in Swedish craneflies are called "Loki spiders". So perhaps the name "entangler" is a reference to spiders?
Loki is not a trickster god, he's not even a god. He does far less tricks than Odin for example.
"In Faroese cobwebs are called "Loki's nets" and in Swedish craneflies are called "Loki spiders". So perhaps the name "entangler" is a reference to spiders?"
The word for some spiders in Finnish is lukki. That's another clue that either Loki is a spider, has something to do with spiders or has something to do with what spiders do or maybe that he was tied like in a cocoon.
From my understanding of your videos, it seems like Odin and Loki don't really fit into the Indo-European family of gods. Could they be from an alternate/older source? And later combined with other gods / stories from the Indo-European tradition?
To be honest very few of the gods found in the Old Norse mythology fit with the Indo-European pantheon, and so I agree, are probably a remnant of an older religion and repositioned to fit into a new concept.
I love how I always learn NEW facts about mythology that is absent from other mythology history online. Your channel is great! Is there anywhere online to learn more, especially the history you hint at around 11:46, esp the more ancient germanic like tales (pre viking age)?
Loki resembles Tantalus (Greek myth) : Loki was bound to a rock (by the entrails of one or more of his sons, according to some sources) as punishment, thus in many ways resembling the Greek figure Tantalus.
And Prometheus
Loki would leave a comment for the algorithm👊😎
I have Loki questions! I heard Jackson Crawford talking in a video and mentioned that Loki and Lodur are the same person. Do you agree with that, and is that something you could elaborate on in a video? Second question; I know he’s described as “fair” in the myths and some have taken that to mean “blonde/red haired” and some “handsome” since the word can go either way in English. Do you have an opinion about that? I would assume that knowing the meaning of the original word would probably help clear it up (unless the original word has the same double meaning, I suppose). Thank you so much! I always love hearing about Loki, so anything you want to discuss about him is always welcome! And sorry if you’ve already discussed either of these topics, I’m going to search through your videos now and add any Loki-related videos to my watch list 😊 Thanks!!
listening to you describe the journey it sounds exactly like the Epic of Gilgamesh
Fascinating topic! I'd never considered Loki in this context before, but is it possible to infer a common etymology between the concept of Loki as a lord of an underworld, and Lucifer?
The etymology of Loki is a challenge, with no one agreeing, and so it would only be guesswork if we said something. But I agree that there of hints of Lucifer there.
dude... you should write a book about your research. i already have watched ur videos but i needed watch all again in order. now i'm thinking about to write somethings like a study book kkkk a lot of informatio
I am writing three different books explaining this, but they are two or three years away. But I will keep producing videos until then as there are gaps I need to fill, and stories I want to tell.
Loki is a trickster god, always having some second intentions.
Indeed, tricksters are not immoral but amoral.
Can you cover the history of the Vanir, seperate from the Aesir at some point?
I can, although you may want to watch Finding the Oldest Gods video I released a few weeks ago as it will introduce you to the Vanir. Thank you for watching, and taking the time to comment.
A pedantic point (despite your sources) The tale of Svyatogor is a RUS tale. To refer to it as Russian is akin to calling Norse tales Norwegian.
I was quoting my sources, I believe this may have been Liberman. But I can't find anything that references this specifically as being of Rus origin. Would you let me know your reference so I can read more about this? Many thanks
1. Where did you find the reference between (Utgarda)Loki and Światogor? The latter is quite mysterious figure in slavic mythology (or rather in russian folklore sources, to be more specific). He sacrifices himself and passes part of his might to bogatyr Ilia Muromiets, which is sometimes considered as embodiment of Perun. Generally giants in slavic myths are quite rare and i also wonder what was common root (if there was any) to indoeuropean giants (Gigantes, Hekatonheires, Cyclopes, Jotuns, Fomorians, etc..). I'm watching your stuff chronologically (not all, only pagan / I.E.), but if you didn't make a video on this matter yet, it could be quite interesting.
2. I don't want to be rude and if it seems like, i apologize. Sometimes it's hard to understand you. To me (native Polish) you sound like an Englishman trying to sound like American with sometimes scandinavian accent ;). As your diction seems to struggle with some small difficulties it handicaps my ability to understand everything properly. In the topic that we're all here for, sometimes one word can change the meaning of the whole sentence, or even greater part. Auto-generated captions ("welcome to kraken ford") sometimes help but also can do more harm than my poor ability to get into details of your spoken word. So... it'd be much appreciated if you could try to speak a bit clearer. Or maybe look at those auto-generated captions and fix them in few places (idk if that's even possible) or maybe ask some younger chap, to make proper subtitles. Anyway thank you for your job.
Sława!
Hi, I now manually create all my captions, and so these should be a lot better to follow in more recent videos. As for that specific reference, I cannot recall, it may have been from a reference Liberman cited. I would highly recommend Prayers and Laughter if you're interested in understanding Nordic mythology more.
@@Crecganford I try to understand slavic mythology through nordic and all other indoueropean mythologies. And than to understand proto-indoeurpean mythology, as it turned out later
Trying to sound like an American?? As an American, I must vociferously disagree with that!
Seems that tricksters are always just not real brothers with the king or god with whom they interact. Odin and Loki are bloodbrothers, Hermes and Apollo are halfbrothers, Arthur and Cay are stephbrothers, ...
This is a random one but have you played ac valhalla at all even if your against games just exploring it is fascinating if you are interested in norse/anglo saxon england the lebel of historical accuracy they use is immense
I don't get much time for video games, so haven't played this... I'm more of a Civ kinda guy
@@Crecganford ah yes i can imagine you dont get much time for it with all the videos and research alone. havent played civ myself but from a quick google reminds me of total war which i am a big fan of so il have to give it a go when the kids have grown abit and i can play again 🤣🙌
Liked and subscribed
I'm just reading a book by Yvonne Bonntain, who made her PhD Thesis on Loki. So far (I'm half through it) I got the impression that Loki is a completly unclear charakter, and his attributes are always negative definitions: He is not solely evil, he is not solely a trickster, he might actually not be a 'he' but a 'she' or non-binary, Thor, Odin and Freyr might somtimes use Loki as Scapegoat, Loki is a god (Æsir) , but no one worships him (i.e. no cult around Loki)... piuh.
I can agree with that synopsis to a fair degree.
Odin was was his only friend seed from garden of the father
Not sure what you did differently on this one, but the audio is of lower quality.
Yes, this is one of my oldest videos, and so the production quality was still basic.
But there no Pagans left to convert when Snorri was writing.
Where can I buy that lion man statue? The one from Germany
Loki is not the god of fire, he is the son of the frosty giant Farbadi and Laufej. The frost giants are from the Nifelheim land of ice, where the frost dragon lives Nidhog. Loki is the god of deception or mischief, but he has the origins of a frost giant. He is Odin's half-brother and they all belong to the family of the Jotun giants.
I agree with most of that, and I don't think I have said he is the god of fire per se, but he is definitely associated with fire, and I'll show why in the next video I'll do of him. The fact is there is also a lot about him we don't know for sure, but if I say something that is not certain I will try and say why I've inferred that.
Logi was a firegod/giant who formed a triad with Kari (wind) and Aegir (water/sea). Logi is prob. mistaken for Loki. Maybe because of Wagner's Nibelungen where Loge was a firespirit and trickster. Seems he combined both in his opera.
@@bennyvangelder7624 yeah, I think that's what this person is confusing.
More to ponder...Loki in some ways appears to be as confusing as all the tales told about him tend to be confusing...I will need to watch the video again...perhaps tomorrow, as it's late...However... at times, just as you have to question Snorri's interpretation about Loki...and others...Unfortunately Snorri had been taught the Roman System...which was to rebrand the local belief system and to exploit them to fit the Roman way...
My Dutch friend believed Loki was a Xtian insert.
Loki is certainly a bit of a mystery, but then he is in far too many poems to make me feel he was a Xian insert, but I can see why people would think that.
Snorre was not a monk! He was a Christian, but a nobleman and a political player!
In a way I feel connected to Loki. And in the series the Vikings, the character ‘Floki’ was very reminiscent of a Loki type character. Again, I identified with Floki, even though I’m a woman 👩🏼 😂
So was Loki a female. At least at times. Usually also a beast, when he did.
We are all capable of identifying with a character or person of another physical makeup, especially because there's always a little "female" in the "male" mind and a little "male" in the "female" mind. Think of it more like a spectrum, where one color slowly and evenly changed into another; it's impossible to say when the yellow is fully changed to orange or when the blue has totally turned to purple.
Snorri was a nobleman/cheiftian, not a munk.
Also born over a century after the Icelandic conversion to Christianity. There were no pagans left to convert, except where the Teutonic Knights were converting by the sword, about in modern Estonia about 1475 miles (2374 km) away, as the crow flies.
Why do you brook 'use' Wothanaz when it was Wodinz in Proto-Norse and Wodanaz in Proto-Germanic. This why I believe the Wothu which you say is P.I.E to be incorrect as it wouldn't be a 'th' sound in that tongue... I'll go with Watenos to Wodanaz.
Is Loki connected to Lug?
That is not a question I’ve been asked before, and I do not see a connection. What are you thinking when you ask the question? I’d be interested to know in case you’ve seen something I’ve missed. Thank you.
@@Crecganford hi! Thanks for replying and thanks for your incredibly inspiring content. So, so good.
I'm afraid I'm a total amateur, so the etymological connection Loki/lug was the first thing that came to mind.
In fact, I know nothing about Lug, and you don't seem to have made any videos about it? I would need to check elsewhere, but I did wonder if there was a connection between Lug and Wotan (Deus maximus) then there is a mercurial element to it which you seem to imply relates to Odin. But if Loki and Odin are related, then maybe it's there? The connection between Odin and Loki isn't clear, but could it be some kind of repressed divine twin thing? If so, thinking of the ins and outs, there could be a connection between Lug and Loki, maybe it splits off at a different time which would explain differences of other order, but similarity in at least name and possibly other factors.
Check it:
ruclips.net/video/4ekvfBrJNkA/видео.html
Someone else already asked this. The comments seem to have further info.
Listening about Lugh, he is clearly old and his story has evolved a lot. Associated to Pushan - is that related to Purusha?
Lots of old and basic elements in his story, with a lot of agricultural and pastoral elements as well as warriorship, indicating a lot of evolution. We could expect equivalent ins and outs for Norse myth.
ruclips.net/video/hrLUdqtyxZk/видео.html
Ok, the video above pushes back, but I think it's silly. I mean, pre-pie is such a long time.
The best comments I found on that link were:
S.M. Mannix 1 yr ago So, within the Norse/Germanic mythos, Loki appears to be an alien god who was a hostage among the Vanir. Thus, it makes sense to me that if Lugh was the chief among the Celtic gods; then, the Germans would want to reframe Lugh as a trickster. Just as Wotan/Odin was seen as a trickster by the +ians. Thus, my read of Loki is as Germans trying to say the chief of the Gael's is a shady trickster among their Gods. So, if Lugh was parallel to Wotan/Odin within the religion of the Gaels, it stands to reason the Germans would reframe their mythos so that Lugh became Loki. The heroic god of the Celts becoming the A-hole foil of the German gods... because, 1000 years of +ianity has shown that Germans and Celts will fight over any minor difference in religion.
The closed captions on this are really bad and confusing.
I guess Loki is not associated with the hearth?
He was associated with the hearth in terms of fire, but not in a traditional sense when associated with home.
How do you mean, not in a traditional sense?
You mean he is associated with fire regardless of hearth or not, and not connected specifically to the hearth in a home, he is not regarded as a hearth spirit but generally a spirit of fire?
@@bedal2002 Hearths are often connected with fire, and so connected in that meaning, but not with hearth as in "the home". Whilst I have hinted at fire being connected with his children I can make a video to explain his potential origins, and why I think fire is the most plausible one in my opinion
Yes, please, that would be interesting! So he is not specifically connected to the hearth of a home, interesting. Was there another spirit or entity that had that role?
Snorri Sturlusson was NEITHER a monk nor a missionary
Loki was the first gender neutral god altho he was referred to as a he , he was neither a he or a she or both lol
"Loki was the first gender neutral god altho he was referred to as a he , he was neither a he or a she or both lol"
No, Loki was definitely a male spirit, who had a power to shape-shift. Stop trying inject your own ideology to it.