Thanks for watching! Like I say at the end of the videos "Be NICE IN THE COMMENTS"... DAAAMN- DISCORD - discord.gg/gYPxaTZnFw So to clarify, I said "privatize blah blah blah" because **the in-power government is AWFUL at managing the country, let alone VIA Rail.** Also I know the corridor needs upgrades too, but as it stands right now? they're pretty much good. new trains, more frequent track maintenance, etc. It's long past time to focus on the other few million Canadians outside the GTA-MTL corridor. As people have said, the blame can't all be on present day VIA management or the current government, A lot of the problems VIA has today can be traced back to the massive 1990 budget cut. Also no, I don't think North America is ready to electrify it's networks like some big channels have suggested, lol. Also the commentary vids I mentioned in the intro are underperforming to be completely honest, please check them out!! feel free to leave your (civil) thoughts on what they could do to fix the passenger rail industry?
I feel like VIA Rail should get more funding, more modern equipment (mainly passenger cars), and lower the insane prices that they have which was stated in this video. Also other people who read this comment, that clip of those European trains 1:48 was mine and thank you Winnipeg Railfan for showing and mentioning my channel in that clip.
All this is done to CONTROL people in Toronto ,Canada's largest city it's never ending construction 🚧work and road closures . TTC had so many services changes you don't know if you'll be left steanded
@@TheWinnipegRailfan Sorry for the strong word, I promise I had typed it in lowercase in my head! I don't even have a particularly strong opinion about it, I just think it's a shame after enjoying decent (and affordable) rail travel in Europe. I don't think nationalisation of passenger rail in Canada would work either, because it tends to either become more expensive or suffer on service for.. political reasons. Cheers!
Benoît Bouchard, who is responsible for the massive 1990 Via service cuts, said shortly afterwards that "Ten years from now, no one will remember Benoît Bouchard cut Via Rail". Well Bouchard, it's been nearly 35 years and we still haven't forgotten how you likely destroyed passenger rail in Canada permanently. If I have one good thing to say to him, at least you had the decency to spare just some of it, unlike Mexico in 1996...
To be fair, most Canadians have forgotten and are complacent. Instead of blaming Benoît, they just blame VIA themselves, the current government or the freight companies.
Mexico doesn’t want to embarrass themselves unlike Canada and USA who have no shame running the most pathetic passenger train services on the planet. Australia is honest about being for tourism
@@octranspo_owl Nope. I still blame the Conservative party - the current 'conservative' CPC (Reform Party) inherited the blame. I've voted Liberal, Green and NDP in various elections since, but I'll never vote for any party calling themselves 'conservatives' again.
Hey! Former BC VIA employee here, I gotta say, if we had any less funding or any more requirement to make profit, we wouldn’t exist. Via can’t and shouldn’t be expected to make a profit, we’ve spent billions upon billions on our highway network not expecting a single cent back, we can’t be expecting VIA to be profitable either. It’s a public transit service, not a private enterprise. We DESPERATELY need at least the level of service we saw in the 90s along the island rail corridor and BCR. Speaking as a current employee of a certain red, white and black formerly nationalized railroad, we WANT nationalization, we WANT what we used to have.
Good point! To be honest I just said we didn't need it as the in-power government just doesn't seem up to the task of something like that at the moment. Focusing on everything but transport in the country in my opinion. Hopefully whoever is elected next can manage VIA better!
@@TheWinnipegRailfanoh the in power government is SHIT, the past 20 years too,And there is genuine fear that the Tories will kill it if elected. The Canadian is still a genuinely successful service, like seriously it gets sold out in the summer, VIA just doesn’t have the equipment to support it anymore.
Keep in mind that, passenger trains don't have to make a profit in order to be useful. It is incredibly rare in the world of passenger transportation for revenue to make up operating costs, let alone make a profit. Highways aren't expected to make a profit, and passenger trains shouldn't be, either. So, the government should see that investment in VIA is not a profit making venture, but is a public service. Great video!
Highways are vital to a functioning economy... passenger rail is not. Also depending what sources you look at, highways may entirely be paid for by user fees/taxes.
@@TheOwenMajor Passenger rail is vital for the economies of countries/places that weren’t rebuilt for the car. Try getting the hundreds of thousands of commuters into London all into cars. You‘ll quickly realise it doesn‘t work.
@@bahnspotterEU I was obviously talking about inter city passenger rail, not commuter rail. Totally different applications. Also not every city is London or New York lol, dense global capitals. But hilariously only 20% of London commuters use public transportation, so even your cherry picked example is sad.
I honestly think that Via should be still nationalized and that CN should be nationalized again. I think that will be better if the government owns it, if they knows what they’re doing and actually have train people in charge.
The rise of highways actually started in the mid to late 50s and then passenger rail began to decline in the 60s. Not just passenger trains but dense cities as well to.
About the train ticket dilemma: I completely agree with that claim. There should be NO reason I have to pay $165 from New York Penn Station to Berlin, CT for a trip that's shorter than NY-BOS. Absolutely insane... Train tickets have increased to alarming prices and soon enough America's infamous railroads will collapse; As everyone continues purchasing motorized vehicles and partake in cross country trips.
As an Albertan, we are seem to be stuck in ideological paralysis whether to spend $10-12B to build a 300 km/h greenfield line or spend $3-4B to upgrade the CP line for 200-240 kmh service with upgraded barriers at intersections... Personally either works just get it built already. Edmonton-Calgary is the fastest growing region of Canada and waiting any longer for population growth is insane since they're already spending WAY more than that on the three ring roads around Edmonton, Red Deer and Calgary ALREADY never mind the ill-fated Calgary Greenline which has spent $1.5B with nothing to show for it. And the Edmonton Valley Line as crappy as it is, has opened to many a car crash (16 so far) and lower than expected ridership if you discount the Oilers playoff run...
Dedicated high speed rails shouldn't interfere with other traffic whatsoever, you really don't wanna that truck driver stuck on crossing and being hit by 300kmh train...
Just build maglev and don’t even bother sharing tracks Canada only needs 3-4 intercity HSR (maglev) routes one between Sault Ste. Marie to Halifax via Sudbury ,Ottawa and Montreal and Quebec City and major cities. Another along the corridor but originating in saguenay going via the major cities to Windsor via Quebec and Montreal and Toronto Then Edmonton to Vancouver via red deer and Calgary and banff park The 4th a very fast train from Churchill to Winnipeg replacing the current train. Then a bunch of new shorter distance regional trains through Winnipeg to western Ontario and to Saskatchewan
Going to Whistler, I actually was confused on why the over 200 mile long Squamish Sub was basically inactive besides a single Rocky Mountaineer once a week. I stood on the platform at Whistler, looked in so many places before the last days I finally googled the disposition of the sub, and it was INACTIVE! Minus CN car storage and the RM, nothing else. I at least thought CN would do something for the harbor in Squamish, but NOPE. I finally understand why this video exists. I saw a single train the entire trip… AN IDLE ROCKY MOUNTAINEER. ON. THE. MAIN. TRACK. I agree now.
I’m Australian, and our trains are bad, but miles ahead of Canada’s. In fact the anglophone country with the best passenger trains is the UK, which really says something…
As an American who constantly has to listen to foreigners bash us for our passenger rail (which isn't great but not nearly as awful as everyone says.) it's nice to see Canada finally get their comeuppance. They thought they could hide and avoid scrutiny! Well think again!
It’s kind of obvious. The UK, as much as they like to view themselves as separate, is thoroughly European in character: cities are plentiful and dense, the size of the country is decent but manageable for trains, and it is well suited for regional running too. The US was/had the potential to be similar in some regions at least, Canada and Australia barely had a chance due to their extreme size and population centralisation.
they were able to make interstates that span the whole US in 10 years but can't get metra to a city 15 miles from the last stop without 20 years of discussion.
I think the problem is that you have too many people (or the loud mouths) who say it needs to make record profits year over year or else its a failure and should be cut, or its the mindset of "i have a car so i dont see the point of a socialist idea where it only benefits poor people". Bit extreme, but you get the point. I live east of Oshawa and we have been waiting for the go train to come since forever. It sucking having to take the bus that comes every 2 hours or so, that they keep cutting service for, and they cram everyone from Peterborough to Oshawa on.
Fun facts about passenger rail: a.) Despite the vastness of their networks, neither CP nor CN ever reported an average passenger trip of greater than 200 miles (in later years, often less than 100 miles) up to 1970, suggesting most trips were super-local. b.) In the U.S. in the '60s, airlines gained about seven passenger-miles for every passenger-mile lost by the railroads; cars gained more than 40 passenger-miles for ever train passenger-mile lost. Buses had negligible impact. Consistent with trains being used mostly for driving-distance trips. (American trains also suffered greatly from the loss of U.S. Postal Service contracts when rural mail delivery was moved in-house in the late '60s. At some railroads, this brought in almost as much revenue as passenger ticket sales.) c.) Around 1970, CP and CN reported that their worst passenger losses were on dining amenities and sleeper cars, which suffered from many no-shows. (Perhaps regulations forbade them to sell non-refundable, advance-purchase fares?) What it suggests about the future of VIA: a.) Retire the long-haul services, or only offer them weekly in the summer, and refocus on a 100-mi./160-km. radius around the 10-20 largest cities, with point-to-point commuter service at least three times daily. b.) Integrate with local transit services. One ticket gets you not just city-to-city, but door-to-door. c.) A 100-mile system would have the additional benefit of not having to offer dining or sleeping cars. Just offer one- or two-class seating, and snacks or beverages for sale from a cart. Crews could also be home every night, saving on accommodation expenses.
Greetings from the blasted Windsor corridor! (Chatham, Onterrible) I will say that despite all of its problems, Via is A LOT more comfortable, and the staff is a lot friendlier than Amtrak... For what it's worth...
Unfortunately, the first thing they have to do is replace the aging Budd cars. Also, we need to bring back trains every 2 days, instead of 2 trains a week . And yes, they need to have commuter railway on Vancouver Island. The problem with that is that the train was running north in the morning and then south in the evening, which makes no sense for commuters
Love your suggestions about how to get VIA services to more places more often. The mantra of all transportation services has to be FREQUENCY with short headways, where practical. Twice weekly service TO to Vancouver sucks. Keep up the good work.
As an employee on The Canadian for 15 years, a lot of your ideas I've heard many times before AND I've heard 1 million reasons why it will never happen. Great footage however
One of the issues with american railroads is that most of the tracks are essentially East/West mains. While yes there is some that are not most of them are. There used to be far more North/South lines but they have gotten ripped up because there is "no need" for them anymore.
i'm taking a train from Moncton NB to Quebec City next week, and a 7 hour drive is a 15 hour train ride on the ocean line. like what the heck. If anythingg the Halifax-Montreal corridor should be at least a BIT more convenient but holy shit it sucks.
Have you seen a via train up close. The exteriors are peeling off decals and the cars are filthy and covered in road grime. They have not seen a wash in years. In the old days the films show the crews cleaning the exteriors of the trains making them look beautiful before the route began.
The Liberals were in Moncton a few weeks ago talking about putting money into "new train sets for the modern age". They are so out of touch with Canadian needs. We don't need new trains, we need MORE of them. And upgraded track. The Ocean, which runs through Moncton, is now reduced in some spots to a whopping 30mph, because of poor track conditions. That's astonishingly bad. Fix the rails, and run more frequently. For that matter, fix the whole thing completely. Make Infrastructure Canada handle building new rail lines, and let private companies come in to compete with them. If Via gets a line, then great. But maybe Brightline would take one, instead.
To be honest, pouring in money for new train sets isn't a bad, new trains can lead to improved performance on routes as well as giving Via a refreshing rebrand. However, new trains doesn't matter if service, speed, and comfort aren't good.
The problem is the goverment cant do anything about the deterriarting track as they are all own privatly by CN. Also the Budd car that ocean is running on are over half a century old and i think new cars(TBH we will proberly just get the hand me down LRC car from the corridor) will definitly be better then what the ocean haves now
I think VIA firstly needs high/higher speed dedicated tracks in the corridor. (Which it seems to finally be getting with VIAHFR). That way it can operate a service that is time- and cost-competitive with flying and driving. This route, with electrified modern trains, convenient downtown station locations, and easy transfers to local and regional transit, will be the objectively best way to get between Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal, and Quebec. This can finally start to rebuild a culture of riding trains in Canada. From there, we can build a PROFITABLE network that can then expand to other places. As for The Canadian or other long-distance trains, they will never be all that useful for anyone needing to go from end to end. Vancouver to Montreal/Toronto will always be significantly faster on an airplane. Any time-conscious traveler will fly while only the most dedicated of railfans will care to take the full route. (These routes still do serve a purpose for shorter trips.)
At this point it’d be a fever dream to see a high speed rail system in Canada equivalent to the trains of Europe and Asia. One can only dream of such a thing being a reality.
I am planning a move to a new country. Since flying is in-itself inherently risky and I have seen some inner shoddy workings - so disorganized, I can't fly anymore, that seems like cliff jumping into water which I'm not willing to do. So, I was planning a train trip out to ship. Well, I'll not be going on this passenger train company now, not happy with the new trains and that's an ethics thing for me. I think the old carriages and locomotives can be restored to new - not brand new but starting over, others used / stored can be bought. And all new tracks where there are shared tracks and nonexistent to go freely across and to many places in this country, that's what we need. I think trains are the most renewable transportation systems since steel and stainless steel are so versatile in repairs and longevity. Put new tracks under what we have running and sitting in storages. As for exhaust and carbon footprint, well, look how many passengers and tank / truckloads are moved by one or more engines compared to buses and trucks each with their exhaust outputs. It's not even a worry and there's conversions to biodiesel to add to that. Rail companies should be the least harassed for change, let them work more for safety and cost effective transportation rather than buying new and shoving the costs to the taxpayers and or customers, that goes for all train services. I live very close by busy tracks, can't smell anything, but turn that into a road, even a truck-only road to move those same loads and I'll know it by the odours and constant movement. And yes, freighters are too long, there'll be more of them if shortened to past lengths or near to that even, but less waiting times for each one. And less crossings blocked when they must stop for whatever reasons. It's is easier and quicker to take an alternate route for a short train blockage than to go looking for the front or back end for some distant open crossing. Some road routes have buildings and trees blocking the view and roads which don't exactly follow the tracks and then there's that same train with just more of its cars in view, that may only be avoidable at an underpass or overpass. Plus these days there can be train-trackers and I do believe people are trying in Winnipeg to get one going, so people can plan driving and walking away from train movements in their areas. That should be a thing everywhere especially with these long trains without publicly known schedules, like looking up the weather before heading out. There's a plane-tracker, not useful on the ground but the same idea for fun, a train-tracker can be a useful site. About shortages of crews and moving crew members to other places, yes that's a problem. Put more people to work, add in women and there'll be no shortages, no too long shifts where there need not be and better scheduling for trains and rest times / holidays. Then perhaps less strikes and more pride. I also think shorter freighters will be less worries on crew members and less walking for conductors when things get disconnected or broken. I'm sure walking long distances to do repairs holds up tracks and that might be a bigger scheduling backlog problem, especially when there's no access for other crews in trucks to help out.
To be fair, as a VIA Rail Foamer, I agree that the station in Thunder Bay should receive its service back, it'll be easier to travel instead of paying $120 for a plane ride to Thunder Bay's International Airport.
5:43 i 100% agree with because ever since the passenger service in van Island ended in 2011 i think that passenger service should come back and some freight trains but as of right now sry rail link operates only on 10 miles of track Btw the malahat road to Victoria is awful so passenger service should come back!!
Here's a not so comprehensive plan that could work that is going to start with a step you won't like but it is what it is: Step 1: Coordinate with GO and Exo to built up a passenger rail network to serve the current network not dependent on CN and CP, build it right next to them when possible since they won't oppose eventual grade separation in the future if that's done. Start with cities like Ottawa and Montreal and build it out from there and add unconnected cities that should be part of the network like Sherbrooke and Granby. Step 2: Use the experience from this project and the increased in revenue it would see to expand service quality outward by bringing back old lines, increasing frequency, and when necessary building new lines. Step 3: Repeat the cycle of improving using this until the corridor is entirely grade separated, the Toronto-Quebec City line is 300kmh, and service outside the corridor is saturated to the point of not having any obvious places that need improvements.
This video made me realize that even if Amtrak sucks, it could be a lot...lot worse. Shame it took another country doing worse to finally realize that.
Long distance passenger rail might be an embarrassment but GO transit is getting tons of funding and expansion projects which has it poised to be among the best rail services in North America in the coming decades. VIA needs to modernize its entire operation. It's too expensive, too restrictive, and too slow. Sadly, they are at the mercy of CN/CPKC and Canadian industrial interests. Train lengths may eventually see further regulation due to the increased risk of derailing the longer a train gets but I can't see them dramatically smaller at their largest allowable size. They will never have priority unless they get their own tracks and that is unlikely to happen on a wide scale due to the massive cost. The best thing VIA can do is make its experience better (none of this baggage limit crap and checking in nonsense like you do when flying). It should be show up and board. Simple. The prices are nuts too unless you book super far in the future and even then it is too expensive.
Barely anything runs on the former BC Rail main line out of North Vancouver. I think it may be a couple times a week that a 15-20 car train goes to Squamish with Boxcars for the Docks there. Vancouver to Whistler would be a benefit, especially in the winter when the Sea to Sky Hwy sees snow. Vancouver Island is a different story. People rather have a trail instead of good transportation.
Well as someone from the west coast of Canada I can say that our highways are some the most upgraded things that we have and really on Vancouver Island most of the crossings there are decommissioned sadly
Well.. the genesis do have a flaw, they can sync their HEP, meaning only one can run it, and given the distance between Calgary and Edmonton, they have to use their F40s. And the railroads don’t let a single P42 outside the corridor due to lack of equipment
Transit within the country shouldn't be profitable to companies. It should profit people, which profits the entire economy. Canada's passenger rail service isn't just bad, it's an international joke. It's literally the most expensive and slowest way to go between BC and Ontario. As for the island, a train between Port Hardy and Victoria with everything in between would be *spectacular*.
Passenger rail makes zero sense in this country our landmass is just too great, I’d much rather take a flight from Toronto to Vancouver and get there in five hours than sit around for five days. The only reason Europe works is because they’re tiny by comparison.
Frequent intercity passenger rail makes a ton of sense in the populous areas of Canada though (particularly in and around the corridor, including routes connecting to northern Ontario and other Quebec cities such as Sherbrooke and Saguney, the Alberta corridor from Lethbridge to Edmonton and over to Banff, the major cities of Manitoba, and areas of the BC coast and parts of the Maritimes)
@@tomgeraci9886 I do live in Ottawa, so I know, but I rarely commute intercity anyways, taking the bus to TO or MTL when I need to is cheaper and faster even if it's miserable
10:35 The ocean is literally the only VIA service in Nova Scotia. There used to be two more to my knowledge, one that ran of DAR trackage from Halifax NS to Yarmouth NS (The Evangeline) and a scenic tourist train from Halifax to Cape Breton. (the bras d'Or) But the VIA cutbacks of 1990 knocked the Evangeline service out of the park, and the bras d'Or was discontinued after just 4 years. (2000-2004) Any hope of the Evangeline service coming back is severely out of the question because the DAR (owned by CP) seized operations in '92, abandoning the tracks between New Minas and Yarmouth. They did form a new shortline with the track's from Wolfville to Windsor Junction called the Windsor and Hantsport Railway, which seized in 2011. The tracks from Grande pre to Yarmouth are now a trail, and the rest of the right of way is rotting away. The bras d'Or train has no future nither cuz the tracks from Turuo to Sydney were owned by CN until being sold to the G&W who formed the Cape Breton Island and Nova Scotia Railway. The tracks in Cape Breton are no longer being used, but the tracks on the mainland are. Jesus, sorry about the who essay, I just know this stuff cuz I'm Nova Scotian.
Some comments/corrections here. I grew up in Sydney in the 70s/80s, and we had regular scheduled passenger service to Truro. We would frequently take it, and transfer in Truro to get to Halifax. CN bought back the lines from Truro to Sydney last year, and plans on upping the freight lines again. They are spending nearly 100 million to upgrade the lines. Sydney is now proposing to put back in rails along what were turned into trails, to make mixed-use lines; a proposal for light-rail within the city was proposed by CBU and accepted by city council this year. There are also short lines that run coal trains to Sydney from the mines that were restarted a few years ago. So rail in Cape Breton and the eastern mainland have a potential future. Will there ever be passenger service to Truro again......? I guess that depends on how well these other projects do, and who's willing to invest in it.
I think VIA Rail should put the Canadian back on it's home rails which is the Canadian Pacific route between Montreal and Vancouver. Passenger trains should be king again and VIA Rail should also bring back conductors since they disbanded the sharp dressed men with the brass badge on the hat who collected tickets in 1998. The conductors other jobs were to kick freeloaders off the train and assist passengers with there luggage. Conductors were assigned in every coach and gave signals to the engineer when it was time to move.
Government needs to take over the northern NB track VIA uses and get the Ocean time down to less then 18 hour Halifax to Toronto for less then a flight. Then it will be more attractive then driving. because who wants to drive through Quebec
I took the SNCF TGV and Trenitalia's Frecciarossa at the beginning of Aug. 2024 between Paris and Lyon (400km). Both are purchased only a week in advance. For a tourist month like August, SNCF cost only 39eur for economy and Trenitalia is a bit more expensive at 45eur. The journey time was 2 hours with obviously no delays. While for Via Rail, a train ticket between Ottawa and Toronto (450 km) could cost more than $100 if purchased month in advance. August can be even more expansive. Not to mention the long and slow journey. Of course, delays are also very frequent.
You are a truly Canadian and noes what you are talking about, you are absaloutly right about the passanger trains in Canada the ideas that you broght sounds good.
I think the ideas here are in the right spirit, but go the wrong direction. If you want to save Via (and passanger rail in Canada), it starts by giving it extremely narrowly defined goals so that it is easy to stay on Target. In that vein of thinking id do the following: Split Via into 2 entities: Via Vite and Via View. Via Vite will be exclusively high speed, EXPRESS passenger service above 200kph a la the American Northeast Corridor. It would only have 3 lines with a few stops that look like: The Corridor: Detroit, Windsor, Chatham, London, Toronto Union, Peterborough, Ottawa, Montreal, Québec City. The Albertan: Edmonton, Calgary The Maritimes: Halifax, Moncton Everything else (200kph and below) would be devolved to the provincial level (GO, ONR, EXO, etc) which in turn would have their missions expanded to be a full regional rail system. More on this later. Via View would take over the 2 main distance trains and officially run them exclusively as tourist trains. They would essentially operate as land cruises. Park in a city all day, and then slowly chug to the next stop overnight while the passengers sleep. This would allow tourists to fully explore cities like Winnipeg, Edmonton, Jasper (after the rebuild), etc. And go to events, restaurants and even hockey games in the winter while on their trip. This service would be exclusively sleeper cars including a new type of sleeper economy that looks like the interior of a submarine to pack as many people in as possible for as cheap as possible. The lowest tickets should be no more than $100 per night (this may require subisidy, which can be argued for on cultural experience grounds and being a trip every Canadian should take). The nicer sleeper cars, shared lounges, and diner cars would still exist ofc. You would then work with Amtrak to connect a few other cities: Vancouver to Portland Winnipeg to MSP>Chicago Toronto to New York Montreal to New York As mentioned earlier, provinces would take up everything else at speeds on no more than 200kph (class 6 rail?). GO for example would be running Sarnia to London trains, London to KW that then goes express to Union, Union to Niagara, Union to Kingston, and Kingston to Ottawa. ONR would extend their track from Timmins to Thunder Bay, and create a new line from Ottawa to Thunder Bay via North Bay, Sudbury and SSM. They may have a small extension line from Thunder Bay to Sioux Lookout to have a northern connection to the Canadian. Alberta would enact that new rail plan of theirs, Quebec would expand EXO to mimic GO, NB and NS would create a joint regional rail service connecting Moncton to their major cities like Saint John and Fredericton, and Halifax to Cape Breton, etc all anchored around the Halifax to Moncton Vite route. While this would eliminate shorter distance routes in many places out west and east in the short term, it would create the framework for them to be brought back in a much better condition under more focused rail admins in the future Sorry if this got a bit long but I think details matter if we want to save this and create a truly great system
Privatization would absolutely make services more expensive. Private Organizations need to make a profit in order to survive, and if that's not happening already under a nationalization scheme then a private railroad would need to raise costs or cut service in order to make that happen. Plus, a passenger railroad's goal, especially one funded by the Government, is to provide a service, not to make a profit. It's why no one stops and thinks if Public Healthcare is profitable - it's not supposed to make CEOs rich, it's for the public to use.
While air travel is faster, it is something i have abandoned due to it's; 1 long security line-ups resulting in you being trapped in a miserable place until your plane boards. 2 The tendency for aircraft to suffer long delays or unforseen cancellation 3 The loss of luggage Having travelled the Canadian (ocean and corridor as well), you cannot beat the comfort, or the service you are offered, all while (as you thankfully mentioned), the stunning scenery as it passes by. While privatization may be the answer for certain routes (take Edmonton - Calgary... HSR), I do not believe it would be the answer to routes such as VIA #1 and #2, due to those being national treasures, which should have federal funding. On the negative side, CN and CP will never shorten their trains, or prioritize passenger service due to loss of revenue. They better fix their damn tracks though!!!
2011 was the last Malahat service between Victoria and courtnay. The problem was not only track condition but shitty schedules. A lot of people want it back but the government said yeah no
I came to Canada this summer, I really liked taking via rail from Montreal to Quebec, but even that train was too expensive, it was $69 CAD while keep in mind New York to Philadelphia on Amtrak is only $10 USD
VIA rail delays are rediculas, Which is kind of why Ive kinda just, Dont chase The Canadian, P692 or P693 that much anymore, One second The Canadian Is coming at 7 PM, Then It gets delayed at like, 5 AM, Older Railways and Railroads knew what they were doing, 1970 Is better then 2024 to where CN and CP still ran passenger service until VIA took over In 1977.
Could do an approach like what Japan did with it's JR network after it went from nationalized to privatized they split it up into separate divisions or company's to keep them all profitable. They split into "JR East" "JR West" "JR Freight" "JR Central" "JR Shikoku" "JR Kyushu" and "JR Hokkaido" basically splitting it up in different parts of the country JR East for example is the group that handles Tokyo to Sendai and it's surroundings. I really think this could work for VIA Like VIA North or VIA West whatever works best for splitting it up. This would keep each area profitable while also maintaining the brand identity and keeping ticket cost's low. Personally I like nationalized railroads but with the situation it's in now this might be a better idea. In regards to everything else you said I think I agree we need to expand our services out besides just Toronto-Montreal as well as electrifying and getting properly separated high speed tracks to improve frequency and speed. This would also let freight trains go through on their old set of tracks no problem. JR's Freight Rail almost never interacts or effects it's passenger service and when they have to use that line they always give the passenger train priority and try to get it through quickly. And in the end of the day too Passenger rail was never meant to be profitable it was a service to the people the profits earned from the ticket prices was just a bonus this is another reason why I like nationalized railroads because the government is able to handle the costs. I mean just look at the highway spending (Widening doesn't work BTW) and there's no way that would be profitable but they did it.
Having a passenger train on Vancouver Island would be great as most if not all ferries go from Tsawwassen or Horseshoe Bay to Nanaimo meaning you have to drive if you want to go down to Victoria and I feel like a passenger train would be great for Vancouver Island.
@@TheWinnipegRailfansome people speculate it because Air Canada want to cut regional competition in the Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal corridor. Porter Airline has become a massive competitor in this region for Air Canada and their mostly a regional airline. Local HSR is known for competing and beating regional airlines in other places like Europe.
Yep and it just got worse thanks to CN's new speed restrictions on the Siemens Venture sets because their Axle count was "not enough" to trigger signals and crossings
Buying myself a train ticket to Toronto should not be as expensive as going there by plane... and I'm in the Windsor-Québec Corridor. the state of via is crazy awful
North America is extremely well optimized to move FREIGHT by rail. Therefore, that's what North America does well. That doesn't mean we all have to have subpar passenger service, but it is more of a challenge to bridge Toronto and Vancouver, or New York and Los Angeles than Hamburg and Berlin or London and Liverpool with a punctual consistent, and affordable passenger service. I think scale matters, for example, people like to shit on Amtrak, but their electrified Northeast Corridor is the size of Britain and runs trains at higher speeds excluding the short stretch of HS1. Just saying, the hate isn't all true nor is does it ever provide fair context. For Europeans, it's one thing to provide affordable, punctual, and consistent passenger service when your country is the size of an American shopping mall, you have a quarter of the population and better parity between freight and passenger rail. Their constant bashing conveniently leaves out the VAST difference between us and them and our rail networks. All of that to say, comparing ourselves to Europe isn't exactly how we fix our own problems because we can't and won't have their network. But we can find a balance of what works and apply it here.
Even if rail in Canada were significantly cheaper I still wouldn't want to take it. It is just SO SLOWWWWWW. The Ocean averages maybe 50 km/h. That means driving takes half the time as the train. No thanks.
It hurts so much to see the old passenger maps of the Maritimes, where I'm from. The VIA cuts took everything. We used to have dozens of trains going to every part of our densely populated region with frequent trips and decent, reliable service.. now we have one train. Three days a week. Booked to the brim, extremely long and yet apparently not enough to justify any more funding.. and zero interest in putting passenger service on the gleaming, class-1 mainline connecting the majority of the region's population centres, WITH EXISTING, INTACT STATIONS STILL IN THEIR HEARTS. The first thing that needs to happen is the government needs to get some brains on their shoulders and realise that an underfunded passenger system is like underfeeding a pig you want to get meat from. It can't grow if it's not fed, and feeding the bare minimum is only going to keep it limping along, and any fracture will kill it. That will lead to funding and passenger-priority laws (including, maybe, the train length limit). That in turn will lead to higher usage and greater service frequency and coverage, which will lead to higher usage, and finally becoming a viable alternative to vehicles where there's still train access. I just hope it happens in my lifetime & soon cause man we can't be a sustainable, high-quality region if we refuse to shift the priority from motor vehicles slightly.
12:25 Bro just described Amtrak’s agreement 😂. Even if government mandated, it’s not going to solve anything. The freight railroads simply take the penalty and move on. That’s why the freight companies DON’T want more passenger service. So they don’t have to pay the penalty more frequently when they don’t give trains priority. Having no funding is a government issue, not a private vs. public issue. No private company WANTS to operate passenger rail unless heavily financially incentivized by the government like Brightline through subsidies. If the Canadian government doesn’t want to fund passenger rail then the system will forever be bad. These private freight railroads need to have less power in order to better passenger rail. America is already slowly slowly… slowly nationalizing the railroads, and where they do the intercity services get better.
I think it would be neat to see a new railroad appear in canada. Especially the fact I don’t think any railroads in North America do freight and passenger anymore. Maybe one day we will get more rail service up here in alberta
It’s time citizens and voters slammed down their foot and say BRING BACK PASSENGER RAIL. Banff and Calgary not having rail access besides a bullshit luxury train only influencers like Jeb Brooks or DownieLive is able to afford is a fucking crime.
Down here everyone talks about Amtrak being bad (which it is sometimes), but at least they are trying to expand and provide better service despite how little money they have. Via rail makes Amtrak look like the best rail system on the planet.
Completely agree with everything said in this video. The current government's focus has always been eastern/Ontario and Quebec - centric and therefore service out west has been horribly neglected. Unforntunately government ministers, even those responsible for the transport portfolio, have little to no experience in the transportation/railway sector, no education on the subject besides the briefings and reports they neglect to read prompting the usual "I don't know" or the usual government platitudes during press conferences, and quite frankly no interest in fixing it. The government would much rather update the image of VIA through new liveries and fancy new corridor trains than fixing service to make an affordable, efficient, and effective service that connects the remote and populated parts of the country. Funding is absolutely necessary, that's what the US is beginning to understand, not to mention the disgusting amount of power CN and CPKC have over workers, trackage and infrastructure must also be addressed. perhaps we moved toward a system were new infrastructure constructed by the government is controlled by an independent third party organization under the perview of Transport Canad while passenger service, and if so freight service, use this infrastructure. That way instead of relying on fares to pay for up-keep and maintainence of new track, usage fees can also be used to fund new projects and better service. Just an idea of course, there are a million ways to tackle these issues, I believe fundamentally that the government - Liberal and Conservative - is to blame for the mess VIA is in.
VIA gets top priority, the problem is on single track having to wait for the slow heavy restricted trains to pull into sidings. in the toronto area now we have a problem with VIA and GO running on CN trackage. too many go trains for how many freights we run
It’s not really fair to compare the price of London - Paris (~300 mi) to Toronto - Vancouver (2,000+ mi). That’s closer to London - Madrid (~1,200 mi: still maybe half the distance), which is more like $200/ticket.
Well, you've said that we could privatize Via's lesser routes to increase profit margins by 1%, but considering how CN and CP are pretty much like their arsehole counterparts in the south and decided spending was bad, I'm 100% certain this privatization will only lead to these RRs to just end and you end up with no passenger rail... That also explains why they only got millions instead of billions: Via and the federal government can't do jack to the rail infrastructure because of freight rail ownership (the government had just bought back the Québec bridge) so the money serves for operations and the newer rolling stock. Sure, the government could spend more to build rail lines exclusive to Via, but again, the leadership isn't really there (and unlike some people might say, the other choices *won't* be the common sense when it comes to rail), so we're stuck with that. Unless we get the leaders that we need (but don't deserve), our best passenger rail will be commuter rail if we exclude all other rail transits.
@@bahnspotterEU metras the biggest line wise they have a diverse roster and they connect lots of smaller areas to Chicago, they seem pretty great right now. (excluding HC and SWS) they have good times too
I'm sorry but the Corridor needs upgrades more. The Corridor has more people in it than everything north and west of it (Northern Ontario, The Parries, BC, and the Territories)... COMBINED and has a similar density to Europe. If any place needs funding, it's there, that and a rail link between Edmonton and Calgary
Bro Europe doesn't have a free Railway Market all the railways in Europe were nationalize but America!! Is supposed to have a free market private companies turn operate passenger and rail like brightline in Florida instead of wasting our tax dollars on Amtrak Via Rail in California High-Speed Rail it's a big waste of tax money America needs to D nationalize passenger rail!!
And I think that the government should not put a limit on train length but the government should limit how many trains are over 10,000 ft can run on a certain subdivision then everyone wins
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Thanks for watching! Like I say at the end of the videos "Be NICE IN THE COMMENTS"... DAAAMN-
DISCORD - discord.gg/gYPxaTZnFw
So to clarify, I said "privatize blah blah blah" because **the in-power government is AWFUL at managing the country, let alone VIA Rail.** Also I know the corridor needs upgrades too, but as it stands right now? they're pretty much good. new trains, more frequent track maintenance, etc. It's long past time to focus on the other few million Canadians outside the GTA-MTL corridor. As people have said, the blame can't all be on present day VIA management or the current government, A lot of the problems VIA has today can be traced back to the massive 1990 budget cut. Also no, I don't think North America is ready to electrify it's networks like some big channels have suggested, lol.
Also the commentary vids I mentioned in the intro are underperforming to be completely honest, please check them out!!
feel free to leave your (civil) thoughts on what they could do to fix the passenger rail industry?
I feel like VIA Rail should get more funding, more modern equipment (mainly passenger cars), and lower the insane prices that they have which was stated in this video. Also other people who read this comment, that clip of those European trains 1:48 was mine and thank you Winnipeg Railfan for showing and mentioning my channel in that clip.
All this is done to CONTROL people in Toronto ,Canada's largest city it's never ending construction 🚧work and road closures . TTC had so many services changes you don't know if you'll be left steanded
@@TheWinnipegRailfan Sorry for the strong word, I promise I had typed it in lowercase in my head!
I don't even have a particularly strong opinion about it, I just think it's a shame after enjoying decent (and affordable) rail travel in Europe.
I don't think nationalisation of passenger rail in Canada would work either, because it tends to either become more expensive or suffer on service for.. political reasons.
Cheers!
Benoît Bouchard, who is responsible for the massive 1990 Via service cuts, said shortly afterwards that "Ten years from now, no one will remember Benoît Bouchard cut Via Rail". Well Bouchard, it's been nearly 35 years and we still haven't forgotten how you likely destroyed passenger rail in Canada permanently.
If I have one good thing to say to him, at least you had the decency to spare just some of it, unlike Mexico in 1996...
To be fair, most Canadians have forgotten and are complacent. Instead of blaming Benoît, they just blame VIA themselves, the current government or the freight companies.
Mexico doesn’t want to embarrass themselves unlike Canada and USA who have no shame running the most pathetic passenger train services on the planet. Australia is honest about being for tourism
@@octranspo_owl Nope. I still blame the Conservative party - the current 'conservative' CPC (Reform Party) inherited the blame. I've voted Liberal, Green and NDP in various elections since, but I'll never vote for any party calling themselves 'conservatives' again.
Hey! Former BC VIA employee here, I gotta say, if we had any less funding or any more requirement to make profit, we wouldn’t exist. Via can’t and shouldn’t be expected to make a profit, we’ve spent billions upon billions on our highway network not expecting a single cent back, we can’t be expecting VIA to be profitable either. It’s a public transit service, not a private enterprise. We DESPERATELY need at least the level of service we saw in the 90s along the island rail corridor and BCR. Speaking as a current employee of a certain red, white and black formerly nationalized railroad, we WANT nationalization, we WANT what we used to have.
Good point! To be honest I just said we didn't need it as the in-power government just doesn't seem up to the task of something like that at the moment. Focusing on everything but transport in the country in my opinion. Hopefully whoever is elected next can manage VIA better!
@@TheWinnipegRailfanoh the in power government is SHIT, the past 20 years too,And there is genuine fear that the Tories will kill it if elected. The Canadian is still a genuinely successful service, like seriously it gets sold out in the summer, VIA just doesn’t have the equipment to support it anymore.
Keep in mind that, passenger trains don't have to make a profit in order to be useful. It is incredibly rare in the world of passenger transportation for revenue to make up operating costs, let alone make a profit. Highways aren't expected to make a profit, and passenger trains shouldn't be, either. So, the government should see that investment in VIA is not a profit making venture, but is a public service. Great video!
Highways are vital to a functioning economy... passenger rail is not. Also depending what sources you look at, highways may entirely be paid for by user fees/taxes.
@@TheOwenMajor Passenger rail is vital for the economies of countries/places that weren’t rebuilt for the car. Try getting the hundreds of thousands of commuters into London all into cars. You‘ll quickly realise it doesn‘t work.
@@TheOwenMajor”passenger rail is not” please go back to school
@@bahnspotterEU I was obviously talking about inter city passenger rail, not commuter rail. Totally different applications.
Also not every city is London or New York lol, dense global capitals. But hilariously only 20% of London commuters use public transportation, so even your cherry picked example is sad.
@@winterbliss4459 I did go to school, for this stuff. The difference is I like trains, not sexually attracted to trains like most people here.
I honestly think that Via should be still nationalized and that CN should be nationalized again. I think that will be better if the government owns it, if they knows what they’re doing and actually have train people in charge.
Good luck trying to nationalise CN. The largest shareholder is Bill Gates.
But at the same time the railways are at the mercy of politicians who change more often than CEOs do which is a double edged sword
The rise of highways actually started in the mid to late 50s and then passenger rail began to decline in the 60s. Not just passenger trains but dense cities as well to.
Canada needs what’s gravely lacking: Leadership and common sense
About the train ticket dilemma: I completely agree with that claim. There should be NO reason I have to pay $165 from New York Penn Station to Berlin, CT for a trip that's shorter than NY-BOS. Absolutely insane... Train tickets have increased to alarming prices and soon enough America's infamous railroads will collapse; As everyone continues purchasing motorized vehicles and partake in cross country trips.
As an Albertan, we are seem to be stuck in ideological paralysis whether to spend $10-12B to build a 300 km/h greenfield line or spend $3-4B to upgrade the CP line for 200-240 kmh service with upgraded barriers at intersections... Personally either works just get it built already. Edmonton-Calgary is the fastest growing region of Canada and waiting any longer for population growth is insane since they're already spending WAY more than that on the three ring roads around Edmonton, Red Deer and Calgary ALREADY never mind the ill-fated Calgary Greenline which has spent $1.5B with nothing to show for it. And the Edmonton Valley Line as crappy as it is, has opened to many a car crash (16 so far) and lower than expected ridership if you discount the Oilers playoff run...
Dedicated high speed rails shouldn't interfere with other traffic whatsoever, you really don't wanna that truck driver stuck on crossing and being hit by 300kmh train...
Just build maglev and don’t even bother sharing tracks Canada only needs 3-4 intercity HSR (maglev) routes
one between Sault Ste. Marie to Halifax via Sudbury ,Ottawa and Montreal and Quebec City and major cities.
Another along the corridor but originating in saguenay going via the major cities to Windsor via Quebec and Montreal and Toronto
Then Edmonton to Vancouver via red deer and Calgary and banff park
The 4th a very fast train from Churchill to Winnipeg replacing the current train.
Then a bunch of new shorter distance regional trains through Winnipeg to western Ontario and to Saskatchewan
@@karlvonbahnhof6594HSR lines globally are grade separated all of them
Going to Whistler, I actually was confused on why the over 200 mile long Squamish Sub was basically inactive besides a single Rocky Mountaineer once a week. I stood on the platform at Whistler, looked in so many places before the last days I finally googled the disposition of the sub, and it was INACTIVE! Minus CN car storage and the RM, nothing else. I at least thought CN would do something for the harbor in Squamish, but NOPE. I finally understand why this video exists. I saw a single train the entire trip… AN IDLE ROCKY MOUNTAINEER. ON. THE. MAIN. TRACK.
I agree now.
I’m Australian, and our trains are bad, but miles ahead of Canada’s. In fact the anglophone country with the best passenger trains is the UK, which really says something…
As an American who constantly has to listen to foreigners bash us for our passenger rail (which isn't great but not nearly as awful as everyone says.) it's nice to see Canada finally get their comeuppance. They thought they could hide and avoid scrutiny! Well think again!
It’s kind of obvious. The UK, as much as they like to view themselves as separate, is thoroughly European in character: cities are plentiful and dense, the size of the country is decent but manageable for trains, and it is well suited for regional running too. The US was/had the potential to be similar in some regions at least, Canada and Australia barely had a chance due to their extreme size and population centralisation.
they were able to make interstates that span the whole US in 10 years but can't get metra to a city 15 miles from the last stop without 20 years of discussion.
I think the problem is that you have too many people (or the loud mouths) who say it needs to make record profits year over year or else its a failure and should be cut, or its the mindset of "i have a car so i dont see the point of a socialist idea where it only benefits poor people". Bit extreme, but you get the point.
I live east of Oshawa and we have been waiting for the go train to come since forever. It sucking having to take the bus that comes every 2 hours or so, that they keep cutting service for, and they cram everyone from Peterborough to Oshawa on.
Even in Russia, they run more passenger trains than in Canada.
Fun facts about passenger rail:
a.) Despite the vastness of their networks, neither CP nor CN ever reported an average passenger trip of greater than 200 miles (in later years, often less than 100 miles) up to 1970, suggesting most trips were super-local.
b.) In the U.S. in the '60s, airlines gained about seven passenger-miles for every passenger-mile lost by the railroads; cars gained more than 40 passenger-miles for ever train passenger-mile lost. Buses had negligible impact. Consistent with trains being used mostly for driving-distance trips. (American trains also suffered greatly from the loss of U.S. Postal Service contracts when rural mail delivery was moved in-house in the late '60s. At some railroads, this brought in almost as much revenue as passenger ticket sales.)
c.) Around 1970, CP and CN reported that their worst passenger losses were on dining amenities and sleeper cars, which suffered from many no-shows. (Perhaps regulations forbade them to sell non-refundable, advance-purchase fares?)
What it suggests about the future of VIA:
a.) Retire the long-haul services, or only offer them weekly in the summer, and refocus on a 100-mi./160-km. radius around the 10-20 largest cities, with point-to-point commuter service at least three times daily.
b.) Integrate with local transit services. One ticket gets you not just city-to-city, but door-to-door.
c.) A 100-mile system would have the additional benefit of not having to offer dining or sleeping cars. Just offer one- or two-class seating, and snacks or beverages for sale from a cart. Crews could also be home every night, saving on accommodation expenses.
Greetings from the blasted Windsor corridor! (Chatham, Onterrible)
I will say that despite all of its problems, Via is A LOT more comfortable, and the staff is a lot friendlier than Amtrak... For what it's worth...
Unfortunately, the first thing they have to do is replace the aging Budd cars. Also, we need to bring back trains every 2 days, instead of 2 trains a week . And yes, they need to have commuter railway on Vancouver Island. The problem with that is that the train was running north in the morning and then south in the evening, which makes no sense for commuters
It’s just sad that we have the plan for better travel, yet everyone defaults to “just ad another lane for the battery powered cars”
Did you add the fact, that they run through the Rockies, at night?
Love your suggestions about how to get VIA services to more places more often. The mantra of all transportation services has to be FREQUENCY with short headways, where practical. Twice weekly service TO to Vancouver sucks. Keep up the good work.
As an employee on The Canadian for 15 years, a lot of your ideas I've heard many times before AND I've heard 1 million reasons why it will never happen.
Great footage however
One of the issues with american railroads is that most of the tracks are essentially East/West mains. While yes there is some that are not most of them are. There used to be far more North/South lines but they have gotten ripped up because there is "no need" for them anymore.
Thank you for mentioning Sudbury!
i'm taking a train from Moncton NB to Quebec City next week, and a 7 hour drive is a 15 hour train ride on the ocean line. like what the heck. If anythingg the Halifax-Montreal corridor should be at least a BIT more convenient but holy shit it sucks.
Have you seen a via train up close. The exteriors are peeling off decals and the cars are filthy and covered in road grime. They have not seen a wash in years. In the old days the films show the crews cleaning the exteriors of the trains making them look beautiful before the route began.
The Liberals were in Moncton a few weeks ago talking about putting money into "new train sets for the modern age". They are so out of touch with Canadian needs. We don't need new trains, we need MORE of them. And upgraded track. The Ocean, which runs through Moncton, is now reduced in some spots to a whopping 30mph, because of poor track conditions. That's astonishingly bad. Fix the rails, and run more frequently.
For that matter, fix the whole thing completely. Make Infrastructure Canada handle building new rail lines, and let private companies come in to compete with them. If Via gets a line, then great. But maybe Brightline would take one, instead.
I feel that speed restriction... even some Corridor services run at 50km/h between London and Stratford...
To be honest, pouring in money for new train sets isn't a bad, new trains can lead to improved performance on routes as well as giving Via a refreshing rebrand. However, new trains doesn't matter if service, speed, and comfort aren't good.
The problem is the goverment cant do anything about the deterriarting track as they are all own privatly by CN. Also the Budd car that ocean is running on are over half a century old and i think new cars(TBH we will proberly just get the hand me down LRC car from the corridor) will definitly be better then what the ocean haves now
I think VIA firstly needs high/higher speed dedicated tracks in the corridor. (Which it seems to finally be getting with VIAHFR). That way it can operate a service that is time- and cost-competitive with flying and driving. This route, with electrified modern trains, convenient downtown station locations, and easy transfers to local and regional transit, will be the objectively best way to get between Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal, and Quebec.
This can finally start to rebuild a culture of riding trains in Canada. From there, we can build a PROFITABLE network that can then expand to other places.
As for The Canadian or other long-distance trains, they will never be all that useful for anyone needing to go from end to end. Vancouver to Montreal/Toronto will always be significantly faster on an airplane. Any time-conscious traveler will fly while only the most dedicated of railfans will care to take the full route. (These routes still do serve a purpose for shorter trips.)
At this point it’d be a fever dream to see a high speed rail system in Canada equivalent to the trains of Europe and Asia.
One can only dream of such a thing being a reality.
I am planning a move to a new country. Since flying is in-itself inherently risky and I have seen some inner shoddy workings - so disorganized, I can't fly anymore, that seems like cliff jumping into water which I'm not willing to do. So, I was planning a train trip out to ship. Well, I'll not be going on this passenger train company now, not happy with the new trains and that's an ethics thing for me.
I think the old carriages and locomotives can be restored to new - not brand new but starting over, others used / stored can be bought. And all new tracks where there are shared tracks and nonexistent to go freely across and to many places in this country, that's what we need.
I think trains are the most renewable transportation systems since steel and stainless steel are so versatile in repairs and longevity. Put new tracks under what we have running and sitting in storages. As for exhaust and carbon footprint, well, look how many passengers and tank / truckloads are moved by one or more engines compared to buses and trucks each with their exhaust outputs. It's not even a worry and there's conversions to biodiesel to add to that. Rail companies should be the least harassed for change, let them work more for safety and cost effective transportation rather than buying new and shoving the costs to the taxpayers and or customers, that goes for all train services. I live very close by busy tracks, can't smell anything, but turn that into a road, even a truck-only road to move those same loads and I'll know it by the odours and constant movement.
And yes, freighters are too long, there'll be more of them if shortened to past lengths or near to that even, but less waiting times for each one. And less crossings blocked when they must stop for whatever reasons. It's is easier and quicker to take an alternate route for a short train blockage than to go looking for the front or back end for some distant open crossing. Some road routes have buildings and trees blocking the view and roads which don't exactly follow the tracks and then there's that same train with just more of its cars in view, that may only be avoidable at an underpass or overpass.
Plus these days there can be train-trackers and I do believe people are trying in Winnipeg to get one going, so people can plan driving and walking away from train movements in their areas. That should be a thing everywhere especially with these long trains without publicly known schedules, like looking up the weather before heading out. There's a plane-tracker, not useful on the ground but the same idea for fun, a train-tracker can be a useful site.
About shortages of crews and moving crew members to other places, yes that's a problem. Put more people to work, add in women and there'll be no shortages, no too long shifts where there need not be and better scheduling for trains and rest times / holidays. Then perhaps less strikes and more pride. I also think shorter freighters will be less worries on crew members and less walking for conductors when things get disconnected or broken. I'm sure walking long distances to do repairs holds up tracks and that might be a bigger scheduling backlog problem, especially when there's no access for other crews in trucks to help out.
To be fair, as a VIA Rail Foamer, I agree that the station in Thunder Bay should receive its service back, it'll be easier to travel instead of paying $120 for a plane ride to Thunder Bay's International Airport.
1:25 Northwest Airlines Boeing 720B my beloved.
5:43 i 100% agree with because ever since the passenger service in van Island ended in 2011 i think that passenger service should come back and some freight trains but as of right now sry rail link operates only on 10 miles of track
Btw the malahat road to Victoria is awful so passenger service should come back!!
10 MILES? wow damn the network shrunk big time!
yw for the thumbnail art! ^v^
via rail may be like stale milk and big caca,but i still love it lmfao
THE WINNIPEG FOAMER
Here's a not so comprehensive plan that could work that is going to start with a step you won't like but it is what it is:
Step 1: Coordinate with GO and Exo to built up a passenger rail network to serve the current network not dependent on CN and CP, build it right next to them when possible since they won't oppose eventual grade separation in the future if that's done. Start with cities like Ottawa and Montreal and build it out from there and add unconnected cities that should be part of the network like Sherbrooke and Granby.
Step 2: Use the experience from this project and the increased in revenue it would see to expand service quality outward by bringing back old lines, increasing frequency, and when necessary building new lines.
Step 3: Repeat the cycle of improving using this until the corridor is entirely grade separated, the Toronto-Quebec City line is 300kmh, and service outside the corridor is saturated to the point of not having any obvious places that need improvements.
This video made me realize that even if Amtrak sucks, it could be a lot...lot worse. Shame it took another country doing worse to finally realize that.
Long distance passenger rail might be an embarrassment but GO transit is getting tons of funding and expansion projects which has it poised to be among the best rail services in North America in the coming decades. VIA needs to modernize its entire operation. It's too expensive, too restrictive, and too slow. Sadly, they are at the mercy of CN/CPKC and Canadian industrial interests. Train lengths may eventually see further regulation due to the increased risk of derailing the longer a train gets but I can't see them dramatically smaller at their largest allowable size. They will never have priority unless they get their own tracks and that is unlikely to happen on a wide scale due to the massive cost. The best thing VIA can do is make its experience better (none of this baggage limit crap and checking in nonsense like you do when flying). It should be show up and board. Simple. The prices are nuts too unless you book super far in the future and even then it is too expensive.
Barely anything runs on the former BC Rail main line out of North Vancouver. I think it may be a couple times a week that a 15-20 car train goes to Squamish with Boxcars for the Docks there. Vancouver to Whistler would be a benefit, especially in the winter when the Sea to Sky Hwy sees snow. Vancouver Island is a different story. People rather have a trail instead of good transportation.
keep making videos shit is funny while teaching me about yalls railroading
Well as someone from the west coast of Canada I can say that our highways are some the most upgraded things that we have and really on Vancouver Island most of the crossings there are decommissioned sadly
Well.. the genesis do have a flaw, they can sync their HEP, meaning only one can run it, and given the distance between Calgary and Edmonton, they have to use their F40s. And the railroads don’t let a single P42 outside the corridor due to lack of equipment
Transit within the country shouldn't be profitable to companies. It should profit people, which profits the entire economy.
Canada's passenger rail service isn't just bad, it's an international joke. It's literally the most expensive and slowest way to go between BC and Ontario.
As for the island, a train between Port Hardy and Victoria with everything in between would be *spectacular*.
Boy, and I thought passenger train travel around the US is pretty bad.
VIA Rail should be running on its own railway, that should be like the first step for improving passenger railway in North America
Passenger rail makes zero sense in this country our landmass is just too great, I’d much rather take a flight from Toronto to Vancouver and get there in five hours than sit around for five days. The only reason Europe works is because they’re tiny by comparison.
Frequent intercity passenger rail makes a ton of sense in the populous areas of Canada though (particularly in and around the corridor, including routes connecting to northern Ontario and other Quebec cities such as Sherbrooke and Saguney, the Alberta corridor from Lethbridge to Edmonton and over to Banff, the major cities of Manitoba, and areas of the BC coast and parts of the Maritimes)
@@tomgeraci9886 I do live in Ottawa, so I know, but I rarely commute intercity anyways, taking the bus to TO or MTL when I need to is cheaper and faster even if it's miserable
Just found your channel. Loving it.
6:38
FOUR F40's?! Now I've seen everything.
10:35 The ocean is literally the only VIA service in Nova Scotia. There used to be two more to my knowledge, one that ran of DAR trackage from Halifax NS to Yarmouth NS (The Evangeline) and a scenic tourist train from Halifax to Cape Breton. (the bras d'Or) But the VIA cutbacks of 1990 knocked the Evangeline service out of the park, and the bras d'Or was discontinued after just 4 years. (2000-2004)
Any hope of the Evangeline service coming back is severely out of the question because the DAR (owned by CP) seized operations in '92, abandoning the tracks between New Minas and Yarmouth. They did form a new shortline with the track's from Wolfville to Windsor Junction called the Windsor and Hantsport Railway, which seized in 2011. The tracks from Grande pre to Yarmouth are now a trail, and the rest of the right of way is rotting away.
The bras d'Or train has no future nither cuz the tracks from Turuo to Sydney were owned by CN until being sold to the G&W who formed the Cape Breton Island and Nova Scotia Railway. The tracks in Cape Breton are no longer being used, but the tracks on the mainland are.
Jesus, sorry about the who essay, I just know this stuff cuz I'm Nova Scotian.
Some comments/corrections here. I grew up in Sydney in the 70s/80s, and we had regular scheduled passenger service to Truro. We would frequently take it, and transfer in Truro to get to Halifax. CN bought back the lines from Truro to Sydney last year, and plans on upping the freight lines again. They are spending nearly 100 million to upgrade the lines. Sydney is now proposing to put back in rails along what were turned into trails, to make mixed-use lines; a proposal for light-rail within the city was proposed by CBU and accepted by city council this year. There are also short lines that run coal trains to Sydney from the mines that were restarted a few years ago. So rail in Cape Breton and the eastern mainland have a potential future. Will there ever be passenger service to Truro again......? I guess that depends on how well these other projects do, and who's willing to invest in it.
@@DarkpawTheWolf thx for adding on! I know more about the DAR and the WHRC than the CB&NS lol
There also used to be the Atlantic train from Montreal to Halifax which went across northern Maine and through Saint John and Moncton.
0:01 my favorite intro.
The length limit for freight trains should be determined by the shortest siding on a route.
I'm still salty about Calgary losing it's Via service D:
3:40
If you gave the less popular passenger lines to private companies, those lines would be closed before the year's end lmao
I think VIA Rail should put the Canadian back on it's home rails which is the Canadian Pacific route between Montreal and Vancouver. Passenger trains should be king again and VIA Rail should also bring back conductors since they disbanded the sharp dressed men with the brass badge on the hat who collected tickets in 1998. The conductors other jobs were to kick freeloaders off the train and assist passengers with there luggage. Conductors were assigned in every coach and gave signals to the engineer when it was time to move.
I can't believe I was born when VIA Rail made this stupid cut.
WAKE UP BABE! THE WINNIPEG RAILFAN UPLOADED.
American passenger rail is better, but not by much. The only remotely frequent passenger rail in the US is in the Northeast.
I wonder what it will take for railroads to realize PSR is just a money dump
Government needs to take over the northern NB track VIA uses and get the Ocean time down to less then 18 hour Halifax to Toronto for less then a flight. Then it will be more attractive then driving. because who wants to drive through Quebec
I took the SNCF TGV and Trenitalia's Frecciarossa at the beginning of Aug. 2024 between Paris and Lyon (400km). Both are purchased only a week in advance. For a tourist month like August, SNCF cost only 39eur for economy and Trenitalia is a bit more expensive at 45eur. The journey time was 2 hours with obviously no delays.
While for Via Rail, a train ticket between Ottawa and Toronto (450 km) could cost more than $100 if purchased month in advance. August can be even more expansive. Not to mention the long and slow journey. Of course, delays are also very frequent.
Very well made video, Brandon needs passenger again, Maybe it won't be so boring here.
7h ago!? How tf did you manage to... * remembers channel memberships exist *
Chicagoan here: sorry your trains suck, too. Guess we're a long way removed from our European forebears.
You are a truly Canadian and noes what you are talking about, you are absaloutly right about the passanger trains in Canada the ideas that you broght sounds good.
I think the ideas here are in the right spirit, but go the wrong direction.
If you want to save Via (and passanger rail in Canada), it starts by giving it extremely narrowly defined goals so that it is easy to stay on Target. In that vein of thinking id do the following:
Split Via into 2 entities:
Via Vite and Via View.
Via Vite will be exclusively high speed, EXPRESS passenger service above 200kph a la the American Northeast Corridor. It would only have 3 lines with a few stops that look like:
The Corridor:
Detroit, Windsor, Chatham, London, Toronto Union, Peterborough, Ottawa, Montreal, Québec City.
The Albertan:
Edmonton, Calgary
The Maritimes:
Halifax, Moncton
Everything else (200kph and below) would be devolved to the provincial level (GO, ONR, EXO, etc) which in turn would have their missions expanded to be a full regional rail system. More on this later.
Via View would take over the 2 main distance trains and officially run them exclusively as tourist trains. They would essentially operate as land cruises. Park in a city all day, and then slowly chug to the next stop overnight while the passengers sleep. This would allow tourists to fully explore cities like Winnipeg, Edmonton, Jasper (after the rebuild), etc. And go to events, restaurants and even hockey games in the winter while on their trip. This service would be exclusively sleeper cars including a new type of sleeper economy that looks like the interior of a submarine to pack as many people in as possible for as cheap as possible. The lowest tickets should be no more than $100 per night (this may require subisidy, which can be argued for on cultural experience grounds and being a trip every Canadian should take). The nicer sleeper cars, shared lounges, and diner cars would still exist ofc.
You would then work with Amtrak to connect a few other cities:
Vancouver to Portland
Winnipeg to MSP>Chicago
Toronto to New York
Montreal to New York
As mentioned earlier, provinces would take up everything else at speeds on no more than 200kph (class 6 rail?). GO for example would be running Sarnia to London trains, London to KW that then goes express to Union, Union to Niagara, Union to Kingston, and Kingston to Ottawa.
ONR would extend their track from Timmins to Thunder Bay, and create a new line from Ottawa to Thunder Bay via North Bay, Sudbury and SSM. They may have a small extension line from Thunder Bay to Sioux Lookout to have a northern connection to the Canadian.
Alberta would enact that new rail plan of theirs, Quebec would expand EXO to mimic GO, NB and NS would create a joint regional rail service connecting Moncton to their major cities like Saint John and Fredericton, and Halifax to Cape Breton, etc all anchored around the Halifax to Moncton Vite route.
While this would eliminate shorter distance routes in many places out west and east in the short term, it would create the framework for them to be brought back in a much better condition under more focused rail admins in the future
Sorry if this got a bit long but I think details matter if we want to save this and create a truly great system
Privatization would absolutely make services more expensive. Private Organizations need to make a profit in order to survive, and if that's not happening already under a nationalization scheme then a private railroad would need to raise costs or cut service in order to make that happen. Plus, a passenger railroad's goal, especially one funded by the Government, is to provide a service, not to make a profit. It's why no one stops and thinks if Public Healthcare is profitable - it's not supposed to make CEOs rich, it's for the public to use.
While air travel is faster, it is something i have abandoned due to it's;
1 long security line-ups resulting in you being trapped in a miserable place until your plane boards.
2 The tendency for aircraft to suffer long delays or unforseen cancellation
3 The loss of luggage
Having travelled the Canadian (ocean and corridor as well), you cannot beat the comfort, or the service you are offered, all while (as you thankfully mentioned), the stunning scenery as it passes by.
While privatization may be the answer for certain routes (take Edmonton - Calgary... HSR), I do not believe it would be the answer to routes such as VIA #1 and #2, due to those being national treasures, which should have federal funding.
On the negative side, CN and CP will never shorten their trains, or prioritize passenger service due to loss of revenue.
They better fix their damn tracks though!!!
Never EVER privatize. If anything all Rail needs to be Nationalized, including freight carriers
2011 was the last Malahat service between Victoria and courtnay. The problem was not only track condition but shitty schedules. A lot of people want it back but the government said yeah no
I came to Canada this summer, I really liked taking via rail from Montreal to Quebec, but even that train was too expensive, it was $69 CAD while keep in mind New York to Philadelphia on Amtrak is only $10 USD
VIA rail delays are rediculas, Which is kind of why Ive kinda just, Dont chase The Canadian, P692 or P693 that much anymore, One second The Canadian Is coming at 7 PM, Then It gets delayed at like, 5 AM, Older Railways and Railroads knew what they were doing, 1970 Is better then 2024 to where CN and CP still ran passenger service until VIA took over In 1977.
As far as I know, no Canadian railroad knows how to use weed killer on their tracks and specifically in Canada. CN and CP use weed killer in America.
I'd also like to see Night Trains... At 100 km/h for 12 hours will get you pretty far... Edmonton or Calgary to Winnipeg or Vancouver....
Good timing, on the Canadian next week. By the way, the Ocean is the red headed step child of VIA rail which is very very sad.
Could do an approach like what Japan did with it's JR network after it went from nationalized to privatized they split it up into separate divisions or company's to keep them all profitable. They split into "JR East" "JR West" "JR Freight" "JR Central" "JR Shikoku" "JR Kyushu" and "JR Hokkaido" basically splitting it up in different parts of the country JR East for example is the group that handles Tokyo to Sendai and it's surroundings. I really think this could work for VIA Like VIA North or VIA West whatever works best for splitting it up. This would keep each area profitable while also maintaining the brand identity and keeping ticket cost's low. Personally I like nationalized railroads but with the situation it's in now this might be a better idea. In regards to everything else you said I think I agree we need to expand our services out besides just Toronto-Montreal as well as electrifying and getting properly separated high speed tracks to improve frequency and speed. This would also let freight trains go through on their old set of tracks no problem. JR's Freight Rail almost never interacts or effects it's passenger service and when they have to use that line they always give the passenger train priority and try to get it through quickly. And in the end of the day too Passenger rail was never meant to be profitable it was a service to the people the profits earned from the ticket prices was just a bonus this is another reason why I like nationalized railroads because the government is able to handle the costs. I mean just look at the highway spending (Widening doesn't work BTW) and there's no way that would be profitable but they did it.
Having a passenger train on Vancouver Island would be great as most if not all ferries go from Tsawwassen or Horseshoe Bay to Nanaimo meaning you have to drive if you want to go down to Victoria and I feel like a passenger train would be great for Vancouver Island.
Bro its like your going on a jet, WELCOME TO VIA AIRLINES BI-
I mean Air Canada is a part of one one the bids for VIA's HFR project.
@TronAlphaGolf huh, never knew that. How does Air Can tie into the HFR?
@@TheWinnipegRailfansome people speculate it because Air Canada want to cut regional competition in the Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal corridor. Porter Airline has become a massive competitor in this region for Air Canada and their mostly a regional airline. Local HSR is known for competing and beating regional airlines in other places like Europe.
@@TronAlphaGolf I didn't know that, thank you Tron.
Yep and it just got worse thanks to CN's new speed restrictions on the Siemens Venture sets because their Axle count was "not enough" to trigger signals and crossings
its the weight that triggers them
Y'know at least Canada And the US have passenger trains, they may be terrible but hey, at least we have them as some other countries do not
Buying myself a train ticket to Toronto should not be as expensive as going there by plane... and I'm in the Windsor-Québec Corridor. the state of via is crazy awful
Perfect sharing enjoyed it
North America is extremely well optimized to move FREIGHT by rail. Therefore, that's what North America does well. That doesn't mean we all have to have subpar passenger service, but it is more of a challenge to bridge Toronto and Vancouver, or New York and Los Angeles than Hamburg and Berlin or London and Liverpool with a punctual consistent, and affordable passenger service. I think scale matters, for example, people like to shit on Amtrak, but their electrified Northeast Corridor is the size of Britain and runs trains at higher speeds excluding the short stretch of HS1. Just saying, the hate isn't all true nor is does it ever provide fair context. For Europeans, it's one thing to provide affordable, punctual, and consistent passenger service when your country is the size of an American shopping mall, you have a quarter of the population and better parity between freight and passenger rail. Their constant bashing conveniently leaves out the VAST difference between us and them and our rail networks. All of that to say, comparing ourselves to Europe isn't exactly how we fix our own problems because we can't and won't have their network. But we can find a balance of what works and apply it here.
Even if rail in Canada were significantly cheaper I still wouldn't want to take it. It is just SO SLOWWWWWW. The Ocean averages maybe 50 km/h. That means driving takes half the time as the train. No thanks.
It hurts so much to see the old passenger maps of the Maritimes, where I'm from. The VIA cuts took everything. We used to have dozens of trains going to every part of our densely populated region with frequent trips and decent, reliable service.. now we have one train. Three days a week. Booked to the brim, extremely long and yet apparently not enough to justify any more funding.. and zero interest in putting passenger service on the gleaming, class-1 mainline connecting the majority of the region's population centres, WITH EXISTING, INTACT STATIONS STILL IN THEIR HEARTS.
The first thing that needs to happen is the government needs to get some brains on their shoulders and realise that an underfunded passenger system is like underfeeding a pig you want to get meat from. It can't grow if it's not fed, and feeding the bare minimum is only going to keep it limping along, and any fracture will kill it. That will lead to funding and passenger-priority laws (including, maybe, the train length limit). That in turn will lead to higher usage and greater service frequency and coverage, which will lead to higher usage, and finally becoming a viable alternative to vehicles where there's still train access.
I just hope it happens in my lifetime & soon cause man we can't be a sustainable, high-quality region if we refuse to shift the priority from motor vehicles slightly.
12:25 Bro just described Amtrak’s agreement 😂. Even if government mandated, it’s not going to solve anything. The freight railroads simply take the penalty and move on. That’s why the freight companies DON’T want more passenger service. So they don’t have to pay the penalty more frequently when they don’t give trains priority. Having no funding is a government issue, not a private vs. public issue. No private company WANTS to operate passenger rail unless heavily financially incentivized by the government like Brightline through subsidies. If the Canadian government doesn’t want to fund passenger rail then the system will forever be bad. These private freight railroads need to have less power in order to better passenger rail. America is already slowly slowly… slowly nationalizing the railroads, and where they do the intercity services get better.
I think it would be neat to see a new railroad appear in canada. Especially the fact I don’t think any railroads in North America do freight and passenger anymore. Maybe one day we will get more rail service up here in alberta
Metra just be buying EMD
It’s time citizens and voters slammed down their foot and say BRING BACK PASSENGER RAIL.
Banff and Calgary not having rail access besides a bullshit luxury train only influencers like Jeb Brooks or DownieLive is able to afford is a fucking crime.
Down here everyone talks about Amtrak being bad (which it is sometimes), but at least they are trying to expand and provide better service despite how little money they have.
Via rail makes Amtrak look like the best rail system on the planet.
Completely agree with everything said in this video. The current government's focus has always been eastern/Ontario and Quebec - centric and therefore service out west has been horribly neglected. Unforntunately government ministers, even those responsible for the transport portfolio, have little to no experience in the transportation/railway sector, no education on the subject besides the briefings and reports they neglect to read prompting the usual "I don't know" or the usual government platitudes during press conferences, and quite frankly no interest in fixing it. The government would much rather update the image of VIA through new liveries and fancy new corridor trains than fixing service to make an affordable, efficient, and effective service that connects the remote and populated parts of the country. Funding is absolutely necessary, that's what the US is beginning to understand, not to mention the disgusting amount of power CN and CPKC have over workers, trackage and infrastructure must also be addressed.
perhaps we moved toward a system were new infrastructure constructed by the government is controlled by an independent third party organization under the perview of Transport Canad while passenger service, and if so freight service, use this infrastructure. That way instead of relying on fares to pay for up-keep and maintainence of new track, usage fees can also be used to fund new projects and better service. Just an idea of course, there are a million ways to tackle these issues, I believe fundamentally that the government - Liberal and Conservative - is to blame for the mess VIA is in.
VIA gets top priority, the problem is on single track having to wait for the slow heavy restricted trains to pull into sidings. in the toronto area now we have a problem with VIA and GO running on CN trackage. too many go trains for how many freights we run
It’s not really fair to compare the price of London - Paris (~300 mi) to Toronto - Vancouver (2,000+ mi). That’s closer to London - Madrid (~1,200 mi: still maybe half the distance), which is more like $200/ticket.
And exo wants to thanos snap lines.
the only Line that is on par with European regional rail is the Alexandria and Brockville Sub. a tiny portion of which Via operates on.
off topic but cando bought some ex WFRX 70mac's and should be coming up sooner or later, look out for those
Well, you've said that we could privatize Via's lesser routes to increase profit margins by 1%, but considering how CN and CP are pretty much like their arsehole counterparts in the south and decided spending was bad, I'm 100% certain this privatization will only lead to these RRs to just end and you end up with no passenger rail... That also explains why they only got millions instead of billions: Via and the federal government can't do jack to the rail infrastructure because of freight rail ownership (the government had just bought back the Québec bridge) so the money serves for operations and the newer rolling stock. Sure, the government could spend more to build rail lines exclusive to Via, but again, the leadership isn't really there (and unlike some people might say, the other choices *won't* be the common sense when it comes to rail), so we're stuck with that. Unless we get the leaders that we need (but don't deserve), our best passenger rail will be commuter rail if we exclude all other rail transits.
Calgary Really needs passenger service. I’d love to see some routes to Edmonton or Winnipeg from Calgary
If only we all had a metra as our commuter system, the only ones that are doing it right rn
there are several commuter rail services in north america that are doing it way better than metra
What is Metra possibly doing right?
The ones doing it right are CalTrain and FrontRunner.
@@bahnspotterEU metras the biggest line wise they have a diverse roster and they connect lots of smaller areas to Chicago, they seem pretty great right now. (excluding HC and SWS) they have good times too
So why are 2 or 4 engines for these trains and im sure cn owns via
I'm sorry but the Corridor needs upgrades more. The Corridor has more people in it than everything north and west of it (Northern Ontario, The Parries, BC, and the Territories)... COMBINED and has a similar density to Europe. If any place needs funding, it's there, that and a rail link between Edmonton and Calgary
Alberta forgets what makes Amtrak great that’s is state supported service
History in the Dark mentioned lol
Bro Europe doesn't have a free Railway Market all the railways in Europe were nationalize but America!! Is supposed to have a free market private companies turn operate passenger and rail like brightline in Florida instead of wasting our tax dollars on Amtrak Via Rail in California High-Speed Rail it's a big waste of tax money America needs to D nationalize passenger rail!!
And I think that the government should not put a limit on train length but the government should limit how many trains are over 10,000 ft can run on a certain subdivision then everyone wins
Beeching Axe Canada Edition.