I've been using ChatGPT for generating LaTeX for quite a while. It's remarkably good at it. It can generate properly AMS formatted content, including algorithms.
Was at uni in the mid 80s and backed the wrong horse. Did a complex dissertation in Plain TeX and got to know the TeXBook really well, and had to use a custom version with different constants (affecting how memory is divided up) to get a complex figure to work. Penny dropped when I understood why HTML and CSS are kept separate - think about content and layout separately and don’t try and micromanage the latter. Left academia after my postgrad year but still dabble in maths and once in a while will try doing something in plain TeX. Still remember a lot of the detail. But it’s clear that other systems play nicely with LaTeX and I’d like to learn. So far I’ve a Udemy I dip into but am unlikely to finish, and Google. Some of the tools you present look really good, I’ve used Overleaf, and I’ll give them a try.
I've wanted to use Latex for years. I've used it some, but it is very frustrating. It requires packages to do basic layouts, and it seems that there are always several different ways to do the same thing. It isn't jars to do, but it seems like the easy way to do things is copy someone else's document that has a structure similar to how I want my document to look, but there always be something that I want to do slightly different. It takes hours to search out how to use the current packages, or to find and figure out additional packages.
Ya managing the packages you like and work for you is definitely one of the most annoying parts of LaTeX. That said, I find that there is only a half dozen that I'm using regularly and as long as they work it doesn't matter TOOO much if someone else has made a cool package that is better in some way.
I wrote my bachelor, master, and Ph.D thesis using Lyx, and I only go to latex code for some details Lyx doesn't handle that well. I don't understand why more people aren't using it. Life is too short and there is too much mathematics to learn, I don't have time to write code in Latex.
I agree with you. I like Texmacs myself because I find it a bit easier to use than Lyx. But both Lyx and Texmacs are much easier than coding latex directly. They're also free and open source so they don't require an expensive $200 a year subscription like overleaf does.
I completely agree. Two months ago, I started using LyX for the first time, and I absolutely loved it! It's such an awesome software. I really want to write my master's thesis using LyX. Since I'm still exploring the software, I'm looking for a proper workflow that would allow me to collaborate effectively with my lab mates. I came across the "Track Changes" option, but I'm still a bit confused about how to integrate it into a workflow (git or something like that?). Is there a way to track who made specific corrections or comments in the document? I couldn't find any tutorials explaining such workflows. If someone could help me out with this, I'd really appreciate it.
Latex isn't that difficult? Like, some of the diagram packages are a bit more tough, but if you've ever written code, or a markup language, latex comes pretty easily. I don't have a problem with you or others using something else, but I do not think latex is difficult or particularly time-consuming.
@@kruksog also as mentioned in the video its barely an inconvenience now that we have LLM to do the heavy lifting. You only ever need minor edits to the generated LaTex
Since I switched to Typst, I no longer need companies that offer AI-based tools or whatever else. I just write my math intuitively, without backslashes or curly braces or unreadable compilation errors. And writing maths on a computer is no longer a chore
@@IsomerSoma I could have told you that with vscode + copilot(free for students and teachers) you can have a bit of the same thing (except for reading images). But since the AI probably hasn't read much Typst compared to LaTeX I don't think it's as powerful
What are your opinion about typst? I. First learn latex with your videos and would be cool if you do some videos about typst. To teach the new gen, i probably do some videos myself but in Spanish 😅
I've got nothing against typst. LaTeX has a bit of a "moat" in the sense that if I and all the people I am likely to collaborate with in math are bought into LaTeX, then switching to another typsetting language is going to be a lot of work. If you're a student just starting out and can use either, then I think they have done a good job at making a somewhat easier to learn system because learning curve is still a huge problem with LaTeX and has been for decades. Actually I think it is only recently with AI helping to bend down that learning curve that sees a big improvement. Ultimately use whichever you like and works for you, I care far more about what you make then how you make it!
I already know how to write LaTeX code. Learning LaTeX in theory is simple, as any change you make is directly reflected in the document you write, which is how I learned it (plus a combination of Detexify for the commands!). It is crazy too see LLMs being used to assist writing LaTeX code, something that I never knew I needed but now have 😂. Although I'm afraid that I cannot make use of that very feature, as I'm not using Overleaf (Emacs fanboy right here ;D).
FYI emacs has AI that can be use. I like Overleaf as well for its great features but eMacs has already some AI to be integrated that one can use for latex doc.
I feel like it just makes way more sense to just load a csv or any other data file for a table. It is not exactly a step jump to send a picture, hope the AI reads the numbers right, and have to do that every single time you update the data/table instead of just auto loading whatever csv you dump that will update on compile.
Absolutely you can build in excel or whatever the csv then copy and paste and it will format it into latex, no need to do images if you already have the data as you say
This video inspired me to try out LaTex, and I've been having a blast playing around with it, but I've run into some more advanced things that I'm not quite sure how to do yet. How were you able to toggle the ai solutions on?
Hi @MasonHeth, if it doesn't appear for you yet, you can activate it by going to your Account Settings and toggling the Writefull integration from there.
Dr. Bazzett I can't find the button where you can ask in natural languages LLM to give suggestions for code - do you have a widget (Writeful??) installed? is it free or do you need to make a subscription to Overleaf?
I'm using overleaf to create worksheets/homework/etc for my HS math classes (I'm a teacher). For equations, what are the pros/cons of having them inside a \begin{equation} ... \end{equation} versus just using $...$ ?
The big difference is inline in the middle of a sentence vs its own environment myself. Normally little details like “for all x in R” or something go inline mid sentence but then your actual major equation goes in display mode. Display mode formats a bit bigger vertically, can keep track of equation numbers etc.
I learned this in grad school. What I realize now is that formatting information for a static presentation of ink on bleached wood pulp of a standard dimension is as out modded as a fax machine. Rendering such a document on a computer is painful to consume. Rendering such a document on physical paper is outmoded and useful only if you have a printer.
I tried to learn latex 20 years ago with no results, but now if i ask gpt of something in mathematics i realized it responds sometimes with code \\mathbb{R} and the like which has increased my familiarity with the language greatly and I've learnt a lot
I believe you SHOULD have access right away. On the main horizontal menu all the AI features are on the second line, so beneath bold and italics and so forth.
Please forgive me for expressing this caveat, but although this use of Latex, in whatever form, is indispensable in writing papers, I can see what might develop into a form of finickiness where people are no longer able to read and understand the content of a paper if it lacks the perfection that AI, or other proficiency methods, in the writing. In other words, increasingly, neatness will count and beauty, and its absence will be disqualifying.
Working in a mathematics laboratory, our secretaries were able to write plain LaTeX, they had no special math training, LaTeX is not difficult once you know how to read an equation. I even gave a couple of courses for secretaries.
We long had a staff member in our department called a "technical typist" who was proficient at LaTeX despite not being a professional mathematician to do similar. I don't think anyone uses that services anymore though.
Non-sarcastic question: Why use LaTeX, when you can just use the Microsoft Word equation editor where you can just draw your equation and Word turns it into a neatly formatted and editable equation?
I think because latex not only do equations but also more complex structures like algebra diagrams. Plus since latex is plain text against a zip file editors can automate the display of text in html. However try typst is like latex but easier and probably better.
I quite prefer LaTeX to word. Yes, simple equations can be done in word - heck I use powerpoints with the microsoft equation editor for my videos. However, you have MUCH more control over the look and feel and automation of equations and everything else with LaTeX, and I think its for this reason that it becomes "standard" across math.
In my experience, because you're usually both not given the choice of using Word or any other typical document editor, and will be looked down upon for using one. The former is important for obvious reasons, but the latter is important too if you ever need to or want to collaborate with others. My experience might have been unusually toxic though.
@@DrTrefor Yeah I imagine it must be so much more fun now being a math-based academic/content creator, just because of this tool basically doing most of the dirty formatting work for us now :)
@@dennisestenson7820 I mean just to write down the results neatly. I am not suggesting to ask it to write the full thesis from scratch. The thinking should still be done by the human. Just the presentation of the ideas can be nicely accelerated using LLMs.
ok first, thanks for another excellent LaTex vid. but seriously, now it almost looks too easy…i almost feel sorry for all the people who came up over the decades cranking out documents the “hard way”
Wouldn't using a tool like Texmacs make the job of producing nicely formatted equations a lot easier? It not only has a much easier learning curve than using Latex directly, but it's free and open source. No expensive subscriptions.
It's not that LaTeX is hard, it's just that it's tedious and annoying to write at times such as writing proofs. So I don't really write the LaTeX anymore and rely on the AI so I can spend more time thinking about the process rather than being lost in the code.
I learned Lay-tex back in my uni days 20 years ago. Since Microsoft Word caught up about 15 years ago, I haven't had the need to use it again professionally. I'm actually surprised anyone still uses it. It's like finding a lost tribe in the Amazon..
I genuinely hate latex. 1) The output is not reliable, I was using some package for two special letters. Then I decided not to use the package and used default letters. Sure, tex needs to recompute the layout. But how come it changes paragraphs that don't even include the special character?!. Or arxiv compilation of the same source is different than overleaf and that's different than my local texlive installation. 2) Error messages are cryptic and unhelpful. Sometimes even a whitespace can mess everything up and all you get is that \end{document} came too early. I could go on and on. I feel like math community is suffering from a Stockholm syndrome. LaTeX is powerful, but is objectively badly made software. But I agree that beautiful math equations are a huge selling point. But even those are not always perfect. Right now I have many indexes with my variables and it just doesn't look good. That is probably a skill issue. But it shows that if you are not happy with the default solution, it's really hard to force it to do something else.
I accomplished all of this for my college classes using open office, it has an equation builder that does all of this but even easier than this. This is way to silly
Self studying machine learning and I have been using LLMs for generating LaTeX for over a year, it occasionally needs a few corrections. LLMs love code.
If LaTeX got easy... it's not LaTeX anymore. How to separate the boys from the men now? Please use the next available Delorean and correct your failure. THX³
I've been absolutely fighting to get correct information in a sphere polluted by LLMs. I'm amazed you'd recommend this in a sphere as rigorous as mathematics. Good grief.
@@DrTrefor One day it'll get something wrong. And someone won't check it, and the wrong thing will be published. Just don't use probabilistic models to write your maths. It's fundamentally batshit.
@@EddEdmondsonit seems you don’t understand, he isn’t using the ai to write the math, he is using the ai to help write the code to typeset the math he’s already figured out. This is a totally separate task to the math itself.
![The Dark Matter of AI [Mechanistic Interpretability]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/UGO_Ehywuxc/mqdefault.jpg)
How do you all use AI when using or learning LaTeX?
Don't forget to check out the video sponsors Overleaf + Writefull ► www.overleaf.com/register?
I like using AI for debugging or when I want latex code from an image
@@Elonimous Ya image -> code is amazing. I think my favourite thing is just screenshotting tables and getting the code, it's a superpower
I've been using ChatGPT for generating LaTeX for quite a while. It's remarkably good at it. It can generate properly AMS formatted content, including algorithms.
Also, cool another LaTeX video!
How is writefulll better than just using the ChatGPT app on pc running o1/4o? (easy access using Alt+Space)
5 days ago, I had an exam about LaTeX in my math college. I just want to let you know I passed because of your tutorial videos. Thank you 🙏
That's amazing, thanks for sharing!
@@DrTrefor Thank you for helping!
Was at uni in the mid 80s and backed the wrong horse. Did a complex dissertation in Plain TeX and got to know the TeXBook really well, and had to use a custom version with different constants (affecting how memory is divided up) to get a complex figure to work.
Penny dropped when I understood why HTML and CSS are kept separate - think about content and layout separately and don’t try and micromanage the latter.
Left academia after my postgrad year but still dabble in maths and once in a while will try doing something in plain TeX. Still remember a lot of the detail. But it’s clear that other systems play nicely with LaTeX and I’d like to learn. So far I’ve a Udemy I dip into but am unlikely to finish, and Google. Some of the tools you present look really good, I’ve used Overleaf, and I’ll give them a try.
I shudder to think back to plain TeX:D
I've wanted to use Latex for years. I've used it some, but it is very frustrating. It requires packages to do basic layouts, and it seems that there are always several different ways to do the same thing. It isn't jars to do, but it seems like the easy way to do things is copy someone else's document that has a structure similar to how I want my document to look, but there always be something that I want to do slightly different. It takes hours to search out how to use the current packages, or to find and figure out additional packages.
Ya managing the packages you like and work for you is definitely one of the most annoying parts of LaTeX. That said, I find that there is only a half dozen that I'm using regularly and as long as they work it doesn't matter TOOO much if someone else has made a cool package that is better in some way.
"Jars"
Copy and modify is a common method in all programming.
I wrote my bachelor, master, and Ph.D thesis using Lyx, and I only go to latex code for some details Lyx doesn't handle that well. I don't understand why more people aren't using it. Life is too short and there is too much mathematics to learn, I don't have time to write code in Latex.
I agree with you. I like Texmacs myself because I find it a bit easier to use than Lyx. But both Lyx and Texmacs are much easier than coding latex directly. They're also free and open source so they don't require an expensive $200 a year subscription like overleaf does.
I completely agree. Two months ago, I started using LyX for the first time, and I absolutely loved it! It's such an awesome software. I really want to write my master's thesis using LyX. Since I'm still exploring the software, I'm looking for a proper workflow that would allow me to collaborate effectively with my lab mates. I came across the "Track Changes" option, but I'm still a bit confused about how to integrate it into a workflow (git or something like that?). Is there a way to track who made specific corrections or comments in the document? I couldn't find any tutorials explaining such workflows. If someone could help me out with this, I'd really appreciate it.
Latex isn't that difficult? Like, some of the diagram packages are a bit more tough, but if you've ever written code, or a markup language, latex comes pretty easily.
I don't have a problem with you or others using something else, but I do not think latex is difficult or particularly time-consuming.
@@kruksog also as mentioned in the video its barely an inconvenience now that we have LLM to do the heavy lifting. You only ever need minor edits to the generated LaTex
Since I switched to Typst, I no longer need companies that offer AI-based tools or whatever else. I just write my math intuitively, without backslashes or curly braces or unreadable compilation errors. And writing maths on a computer is no longer a chore
Typst!
Typst is nice but this AI feature is a bit too powerful. It's an insane short cut.
@@IsomerSoma I could have told you that with vscode + copilot(free for students and teachers) you can have a bit of the same thing (except for reading images). But since the AI probably hasn't read much Typst compared to LaTeX I don't think it's as powerful
Just use latex offline lmao. You don’t need overleaf
Typst rules!
LaTeX was easy to pick up, as I had learned to love Word Perfects reveal codes in the 80s.
Many thanks Trefor!
Thanks! I love LaTeX!
I’ll be using LaTex immediately! Thank you, Professor!
My friends, just switch to Typst.
What are your opinion about typst? I. First learn latex with your videos and would be cool if you do some videos about typst. To teach the new gen, i probably do some videos myself but in Spanish 😅
I've got nothing against typst. LaTeX has a bit of a "moat" in the sense that if I and all the people I am likely to collaborate with in math are bought into LaTeX, then switching to another typsetting language is going to be a lot of work. If you're a student just starting out and can use either, then I think they have done a good job at making a somewhat easier to learn system because learning curve is still a huge problem with LaTeX and has been for decades. Actually I think it is only recently with AI helping to bend down that learning curve that sees a big improvement. Ultimately use whichever you like and works for you, I care far more about what you make then how you make it!
I already know how to write LaTeX code. Learning LaTeX in theory is simple, as any change you make is directly reflected in the document you write, which is how I learned it (plus a combination of Detexify for the commands!). It is crazy too see LLMs being used to assist writing LaTeX code, something that I never knew I needed but now have 😂. Although I'm afraid that I cannot make use of that very feature, as I'm not using Overleaf (Emacs fanboy right here ;D).
FYI emacs has AI that can be use. I like Overleaf as well for its great features but eMacs has already some AI to be integrated that one can use for latex doc.
I feel like it just makes way more sense to just load a csv or any other data file for a table. It is not exactly a step jump to send a picture, hope the AI reads the numbers right, and have to do that every single time you update the data/table instead of just auto loading whatever csv you dump that will update on compile.
Absolutely you can build in excel or whatever the csv then copy and paste and it will format it into latex, no need to do images if you already have the data as you say
This video inspired me to try out LaTex, and I've been having a blast playing around with it, but I've run into some more advanced things that I'm not quite sure how to do yet. How were you able to toggle the ai solutions on?
Hi @MasonHeth, if it doesn't appear for you yet, you can activate it by going to your Account Settings and toggling the Writefull integration from there.
Hello Prof! I'm wondering where I can grab that T-shirt. I really love that!
Opinions on Typst?
Dr. Bazzett I can't find the button where you can ask in natural languages LLM to give suggestions for code - do you have a widget (Writeful??) installed? is it free or do you need to make a subscription to Overleaf?
perfect timing then
I'm using overleaf to create worksheets/homework/etc for my HS math classes (I'm a teacher). For equations, what are the pros/cons of having them inside a \begin{equation} ... \end{equation} versus just using $...$ ?
The big difference is inline in the middle of a sentence vs its own environment myself. Normally little details like “for all x in R” or something go inline mid sentence but then your actual major equation goes in display mode. Display mode formats a bit bigger vertically, can keep track of equation numbers etc.
I learned this in grad school. What I realize now is that formatting information for a static presentation of ink on bleached wood pulp of a standard dimension is as out modded as a fax machine. Rendering such a document on a computer is painful to consume. Rendering such a document on physical paper is outmoded and useful only if you have a printer.
Can you use your openai api key in overleaf?
I don't believe so
takes the fun out of learning code. However, with things that are complicated, it can be a big help
I tried to learn latex 20 years ago with no results, but now if i ask gpt of something in mathematics i realized it responds sometimes with code \\mathbb{R} and the like which has increased my familiarity with the language greatly and I've learnt a lot
Could alternatively use typst as well... It compiles to latex and is almost objectively easier to understand.
Hi, I use Overleaf but I don't have access to the AI, how do you get it?
I believe you SHOULD have access right away. On the main horizontal menu all the AI features are on the second line, so beneath bold and italics and so forth.
I checked in with @writefull_ai and if it doesn't appear then you can toggle it on in the settings under integrations.
Chatgpt + Latex make my documents immaculate
It's great, isn't it? You can just give your already-made Word PDF document to ChatGPT, and it spits out a good LaTeX version.
Please forgive me for expressing this caveat, but although this use of Latex, in whatever form, is indispensable in writing papers, I can see what might develop into a form of finickiness where people are no longer able to read and understand the content of a paper if it lacks the perfection that AI, or other proficiency methods, in the writing. In other words, increasingly, neatness will count and beauty, and its absence will be disqualifying.
OK, where is the shirt from?
Working in a mathematics laboratory, our secretaries were able to write plain LaTeX, they had no special math training, LaTeX is not difficult once you know how to read an equation.
I even gave a couple of courses for secretaries.
We long had a staff member in our department called a "technical typist" who was proficient at LaTeX despite not being a professional mathematician to do similar. I don't think anyone uses that services anymore though.
They need to compete against typst.
Non-sarcastic question: Why use LaTeX, when you can just use the Microsoft Word equation editor where you can just draw your equation and Word turns it into a neatly formatted and editable equation?
I think because latex not only do equations but also more complex structures like algebra diagrams. Plus since latex is plain text against a zip file editors can automate the display of text in html. However try typst is like latex but easier and probably better.
I quite prefer LaTeX to word. Yes, simple equations can be done in word - heck I use powerpoints with the microsoft equation editor for my videos. However, you have MUCH more control over the look and feel and automation of equations and everything else with LaTeX, and I think its for this reason that it becomes "standard" across math.
In my experience, because you're usually both not given the choice of using Word or any other typical document editor, and will be looked down upon for using one. The former is important for obvious reasons, but the latter is important too if you ever need to or want to collaborate with others. My experience might have been unusually toxic though.
I need that shirt
This integrated ai is an awesome feature
Asciimath is so much easier and faster for writing equations though. Since I discovered It I never touch latex equations unless absolutlely necessary
i learnt all of LaTeX by osmosis on a math discord server lmao
I've been waiting for Overleaf LLM integration before beginning writing my thesis. Great, now I can start and be way more efficient.
Right?? Past Trefor is so annoyed this wasn't here before:D
@@DrTrefor Yeah I imagine it must be so much more fun now being a math-based academic/content creator, just because of this tool basically doing most of the dirty formatting work for us now :)
People waiting for LLMs to write their thesis is so dystopian.
@@dennisestenson7820 I mean just to write down the results neatly. I am not suggesting to ask it to write the full thesis from scratch. The thinking should still be done by the human. Just the presentation of the ideas can be nicely accelerated using LLMs.
ok first, thanks for another excellent LaTex vid. but seriously, now it almost looks too easy…i almost feel sorry for all the people who came up over the decades cranking out documents the “hard way”
I know right, what was all the blood sweat and tears even for?!?!
Why not use GNU TeXmacs or LyX instead?
My point exactly. They're much easier to use, and because they're FOSS they don't require expensive subscriptions.
Wouldn't using a tool like Texmacs make the job of producing nicely formatted equations a lot easier? It not only has a much easier learning curve than using Latex directly, but it's free and open source. No expensive subscriptions.
Be prepared to download a hundred PDFs, one for each package you end up needing to display a glyph!
Chatgpt can do latex all day with fancy colors
no early access for viewers? 🙄
It's not that LaTeX is hard, it's just that it's tedious and annoying to write at times such as writing proofs. So I don't really write the LaTeX anymore and rely on the AI so I can spend more time thinking about the process rather than being lost in the code.
LaTeX is good but I prefer Typst
To make a table, first make a table.
I learned Lay-tex back in my uni days 20 years ago. Since Microsoft Word caught up about 15 years ago, I haven't had the need to use it again professionally. I'm actually surprised anyone still uses it. It's like finding a lost tribe in the Amazon..
Easy way to do \latex is to copy/paste text written into Desmos
this type of AI will be in every serious software
I genuinely hate latex. 1) The output is not reliable, I was using some package for two special letters. Then I decided not to use the package and used default letters. Sure, tex needs to recompute the layout. But how come it changes paragraphs that don't even include the special character?!. Or arxiv compilation of the same source is different than overleaf and that's different than my local texlive installation. 2) Error messages are cryptic and unhelpful. Sometimes even a whitespace can mess everything up and all you get is that \end{document} came too early. I could go on and on. I feel like math community is suffering from a Stockholm syndrome. LaTeX is powerful, but is objectively badly made software. But I agree that beautiful math equations are a huge selling point. But even those are not always perfect. Right now I have many indexes with my variables and it just doesn't look good. That is probably a skill issue. But it shows that if you are not happy with the default solution, it's really hard to force it to do something else.
Texmaker is excellent.
I accomplished all of this for my college classes using open office, it has an equation builder that does all of this but even easier than this. This is way to silly
Self studying machine learning and I have been using LLMs for generating LaTeX for over a year, it occasionally needs a few corrections. LLMs love code.
Or just use LyX
If LaTeX got easy... it's not LaTeX anymore. How to separate the boys from the men now? Please use the next available Delorean and correct your failure. THX³
lol I didn't think about that:D
... typst
LaTeX is easy
I prefer \int_a^bf(x)\,\marhrm dx
oh ya I do like that
But it's still as pointless right?
I've been absolutely fighting to get correct information in a sphere polluted by LLMs. I'm amazed you'd recommend this in a sphere as rigorous as mathematics. Good grief.
Whether the math is correct or not is on you, but I think the LLMs make the somewhat tedious task of TYPESETTING the math quite a bit easier.
@@DrTrefor One day it'll get something wrong. And someone won't check it, and the wrong thing will be published.
Just don't use probabilistic models to write your maths. It's fundamentally batshit.
@@EddEdmondson If that happens thats on you, ai is just a tool and you can either use it correctly or incorrectly.
You're a mathematician and you're recommending a tool that is not absolutely accurate. I honestly don't know what is wrong with you.
@@EddEdmondsonit seems you don’t understand, he isn’t using the ai to write the math, he is using the ai to help write the code to typeset the math he’s already figured out. This is a totally separate task to the math itself.
LaTeX is outdated. I wrote my papers in Word and the PDF was indistinguishable. But it took me 5 hours to format not 50.
I've recently switched back from Word, and I achieve the same (but usually a little better) outputs in so much shorter time with Overleaf.
first
boo, AI
boo efficiency
and third
and second