RED KOMODO 6K | Low Light Testing - Neuway Media
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- Опубликовано: 18 окт 2020
- In this video we do our first low light tests with the RED Komodo 6k cinema camera, pushing the ISO's and lifting the clipped shadows to see how well the image would hold up in extreme situations. Let us know, how do you think the Komodo held up?
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My understanding is that there is no ISO on the camera. ISO 800 according to RED is just a middle ground. The ISO adjustment in camera helps either protect noise in the shadows or details in the highlights and its actually counter to what we've normally been taught. They say, to reduce noise in the shadows you shoot at lower ISOs and to protect highlights shoot at higher ISOs - this shifts the middle gray point up and down the scale in terms of stops. So by exposing at night with ISO 3200 you are actually getting less detail in the shadows and introducing more noise because the balance of the exposure is tipping into the highlights more.
Yep - exactly.
Thank you for writing this because I was just about to say the same thing. I usually dial it to ISO 400 to get the max out of the shadows. Nice effort with the video but I think an update is required ;)
@@deviate.2651 do you use iso 400 during a sunny day scene too? E.g if you are shooting a person under a tree on a pure sunny day with bright trees behind them.
was comparing an epic with komodo. thank you this is all i needed to decided
Like put))) I have a question: you recorded all the material in 6k in CFexpress? or there are other options for recording from the komodo to an external source?
What camera were you filming the video on? Like the footage of the Komodo? Edit: Ah I see you mentioned the S1H.
I would like to see what the stoplights are reading for these shots.
"ISO800 and lifting by 3 Stops" and "ISO6400 and not lifting in Post" is exactly the same (as long as you do it correctly in post) ;)
But still an interesting and entertaining video - thanks guys !
Useful test thanks!
Glad it was helpful! Cheers!
I've used this camera in low light, but was able to get my hands on a 1.8. That's what you need to perform a low light test. Definitely unpleased that you can't push more than an 800 iso without grain, but I was able to shoot in a massive event room on a 1.8 400 iso with EXREME low light for a corporate shoot and was able too see clearly. Once the footage wet through divinci any grain vanished and the client was more than happy. Got booked for 6 more shoots because of it. That's the review you need not this video lol
first of all at night time f/4 really ? try coming down to 1.5 or at east 2.8
Recording at a wide open aperture does not solve the issues of recording at low light or for proving a point of any camera low light performance.
@@greenclydefrog yes it does! Less noise!
@@visionaryentertainment1431 no it doesn't . They explained that shooting F4 was to be able to shoot in a more dim situation. The test is about low light performance. Shooting F4 can be needed even in low light if you want to shoot with a tight focal and want your subject sharp enough. And their test just showed what was needed to show meaning that the red komodo is in fact just a cinema camera and not a reporter camera. It need controlled light. You can't go further 12800 iso with it so compared to an fx6/7 for example, yes you gain the global shutter for more action shots but you loose the capacity to film clean image in the dark like for exemple for someone looking to film a festival or something. Filming at 1.5 will just allow you to expose better your shot, it will not reduce the noise performance of the sensor.
a comparison in low light with a Dragon X 6K?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as ISO is only metadata when shooting R3D, shouldn't the Images shot at 3200 and the images you pushed in post be the exact same?
It's a little confusing, but no. There's a separate setting for exposure so we lifted that setting separate from the ISO setting. That means the exposures themselves should all be identical but technically the amount of noise and dynamic range is not.
@@neuwaymedia ISO is only metadata, so if you only changed ISO between each shot, all the shots are identical. In post if you had changed all the shots' ISO settings to 6400 they would be identical. The only thing that really changes your exposure when shooting RED is the amount of light hitting the sensor. Since the shutter and aperture were consistently f4 for the initial tests here, they are all identical. I believe you are saying that you didn't touch the ISO in post and adjusted the exposure in other ways, and this resulted it differences. However, if you had simply only changed the ISO in post they are all the exact same exposure.
@@toddgilpin8917 That's correct. What Neuway is saying is that within the IPP2 pipeline in their NLE they lifted the exposure value to push the image instead of the ISO value. Even though I use this workflow almost daily with RED footage I'll be the first to admit that I have no idea what the IPP2 exposure value is actually doing to the gain (although I suspect it's outside of the raw pipeline because lifting ISO in post always yields cleaner results), but what you say is correct about the ISO being part of the metadata. R3D footage is just a sensor dump, so yes, your exposure is 100% dictated by aperture and shutter speed. All bumping ISO while shooting does is run you out of headroom. Opening up that iris and slowing shutter speed is the only real way to bump exposure on RED. The test could have been done with just one shot.
@@loudandclearmedia Thank you guys for the clarification on this. To remedy any confusion we're currently working on another low light test video by using the same ISO setting on each shot and only changing ND or aperture.
@@neuwaymedia If you're reshooting most of this anyway, I'd consider shooting a couple pro-res shots as well, because it seems like there's some degree of noise reduction going on in those files. It may be a worthwhile choice for certain situations.
Also, I'd like to see the side-by-side with the s1h or whatever other camera you've got with you, with the same settings. I know Olympus (and some other brands) have been known to exaggerate their ISO values at times. 800 iso on the Red may be brighter or darker than the s1h, or, at the very least, the amount of information in the shadows may be greater, even at the same ISO values.
It might also be worth throwing in a shot or two with equal depth of field. (f4 for full frame and ~2.8 for the komodo) I don't imagine too many people are going to limit themselves to an f/4 lens for shooting at night. (Unless they also have the budget to throw up big lights)
I don't get it with black shading on different places... why to do it?
When you put the sensor cap: it is DARK,
no matter where you are right?
Or is there some other sensor on the camera that checks the environment and does "black shading"
you're black shading the temperature, and that changes. If you have it set to one temp that is different than the temp on location, then the camera will strain the sensor and cause more noise in the image. So you black shade to the temp of each location to make sure your camera is working only as hard as it needs to! The RED is monitoring temperature of the camera and temperature of the sensor simultaneously.
@@chrismurray1163 thanks, that makes sense...
till now everybody said is something with the sensor "seeing" in the dark...😆 and I thought.. wtf.
cap is on.. it is dark.. sensor sees nothing anyway.
thanks!
Ю ЧЁ объективы в морозилке хранишь перед сёмкой ???
Yeah it's a single ISO camera so changing the ISO on camera does nothing to the recorded image.
The only difference is your post software will automatically add gain to the higher ISO image when you bring it in but you can 'undo' that.
The only reason to use high ISO is to better see what you're doing on location.
Pushing the image in post is useful to see but it's pointless changing the ISO. That's just not how most camera's work.
Yep - exactly.
That is not completely true. Maybe I am wrong, but I understood following from RED‘s educational videos: On a RED you would set the ISO to a lower value at low-light condition and vice versa. Since RED is working with FLUT which is based on meta data, it would shift the dynamic range steps which is below or above the middle gray just upwards or downwards based on you ISO setting, while we could expect the full dynamic range of the sensor at ISO 800. So by setting a lower ISO at low light, you would preserve the shadows and vice versa. At least this is how RED explains it.
Just an understanding question. On a RED wouldn‘t you set the ISO to a lower value at low-light condition and vice versa? Since RED is working with FLUT which is based on meta data, it would shift the dynamic range steps which is below or above the middle gray just upwards or downwards based on you ISO setting, while we could expect the full dynamic range of the sensor at ISO 800. So by setting a lower ISO at low light, you would preserve the shadows and vice versa. At least this is how RED explains it. Correct me if I am wrong.
yes but this is what you would do when you have control to lighting - if you have no control and you still want the scene to be bright the only thing you can do is to increase the ISO (EI, technically) which costs you dynamic range and brings more noise in shadows.
@@jieyiwang1749 But still it is important to set the ISO value correct during shooting, lets say lower in low light conditions. During filming it can appear dark on the screen, however you would preserve the shadows by doing so when pulling up the ISO in post. That is what I understood from RED‘s statement to ISO.
@@B1TN3RD I don't think there's any difference between setting a low ISO then changing it to be higher in post versus setting a high ISO in the beginning, if the lighting is the same. It's just metadata.
@@jieyiwang1749 I thought the same, and technically you are right, it is metadata. However it will shift the steps below and above middle gray in the meta data. There are also a few videos on YT, which compare clips shot with a low ISO in a darker environment and to be pulled up in post and also a higher ISO (lets say which appears correct on the screen while shooting). When pulling the first shot with lower ISO in post, let‘s say to the same value as the second ISO, it will have less noise in the shadows, since you retained more dynamic range below middle gray. I know RED cameras work a little backwards.
@@B1TN3RD Do you have the link to the clips? I don't think this is how it works. When you pull the first shot (with lower ISO) in post to a higher ISO, your dynamic range shifted to the brighter side again.
Is it ok for cinema in your opinion? All features are like low light, auto focus, colour grading, heat???? Please reply me. I am from new delhi, India.
It's a great cinema camera, yes. haha
Tell me you don’t understand how redcode works by making an in-depth video talking about isos…
how do you like ACE xl?
Love it! Sachtler makes great tripods!
Why are you shooting at f4 at night, with available light? Of course it's going to perform poorly.
Low light comparison with f4?? And why you change the ISO? If you want to do it please do it properly
if I was shooting at night for an important video and I have the komodo. I'd just rent a Gemini 5k.
4K option?
Apologies for no 4k. The video was exported in 4k but for some reason RUclips isn't uploading 4k videos for us on this channel yet. smh
Might have been processing still when you watched it. I can confirm 4K is available now.
IS not a good cam rigth ?
F4 what do you expect.
man it's really bad in low light
Why 1/48? You had to use 1/50.
1/48 is 180 degree shutter when shooting 24 fps, which is a pretty standard shutter speed in cinema. 1/50 would be 180 degree if shooting 25 fps (also very standard in Europe and other PAL regions) although no hard and fast rules in shutter speed, can vary for different effects or to try and mediate light or screen flicker.
This is a How Not To Shoot A Komodo video…
Forgot to black shade. Do you even camera, bro? 🤦🏼♂️