I'm reading this book right now and I can say it's one of the best I've read from Ehrman. It's time for the awful teaching of eternal hell to be buried forever!
It is really amazing that modern people still conflate delayed judgement with "justice", even in countries where the judicial system is NOT based on delaying justice as much as posible, but quite the contrary. Delayed justice is injustice. Any just God should know that.
Would be great to see Bart come closer to the modern era and take an in-depth look at the histriocity of the prosperity gospel and it's disservice to humanity.
I know right?! It makes no sense whatsoever. People claim god is so merciful and just but sending your own children to an eternity of torture is not mercy or justice!
Thank you for the very important work you do Bart. I wish Christians would read your books. Well, who am i kidding, the vast majority of Christians have never even read the Bible.
Was sure (as either Hitchens or Dawkins said) Jesus was the first one to introrduce Hell, seemed to say a lot about it,Bart must be using a different interpretiaton then others
Eleanor Shellstrop is the protagonist of The Good Place, played by Kristen Bell. Sorry to nitpick, but she doesn't end up in heaven by mistake. She ends up in hell and part of the torture is to convince her that she is in "The Good Place" with all her wishes being granted in a way designed to annoy and perplex her. This leads her to figure out, repeatedly as the torture scene has to be reset and restarted thousands of times, that she is actually in "The Bad Place". [spoiler] Eleanor and her three damned friends finally convince the demon assigned to torture them (played by Ted Danson) that no human can be bad enough to deserve eternal torture. Amazing!
It’s been no mystery to bible scholars that the ideas of heaven and hell were late additions to Jewish thought post-exile. Surely god would have mentioned both a bit earlier, somewhere in the Torah, for example.
I understood and I think Bart is right but, who can explain the paranormal phenomena that were caught on rooms with souls (ghosts) haunting certain places? I think nobody knows anything, only hypotheses and if the vegetation and plants hibernate and return to spring life the more the man?
SuperDukka That’s so cool! I’ve only done research on near death experiences and the similar things people see based on their beliefs. I just think heaven and hell is such an all or nothing fallacy, I mean at this rate, most people will end up there, it just makes no sense that god would send his own children to such a place for what they were born into. Also, I was wondering if you have any good evidence to disprove the heaven and hell doctrine? I know it can’t actually be disproven because we can’t see them but good historical evidence against it? I have some but I need more for a good argument and you seem to know what you’re talking about.
The better question is "Someone added verses to these holy texts many years after they were completed, saying that Jesus said this thing. They obviously were not witnesses to this event so it is apocrypyhal - why did early church members need this addition to their early Bible? What person or persons began the invention of the after-life reward?"
Interesting that John and Acts say that Jesus arose into heaven 40 days later. The exchange about paradise with the "good thief" is only in Luke, while Matthew and Mark only say that "two rebels" were crucified with Jesus, not thieves (thievery was not a capital offense, although being a rebel against Rome was a capital crime - Rome loved to display the rotting corpses of crucified rebels just outside the city gates). In Mark and Matthew, the two rebels "heaped insults" or "taunted" Jesus. So, both were bad, with no "good thief" recorded as defending Jesus. John's gospel only says, "There they crucified him and with him two others-one on each side". It seems odd that it is recorded that some of Jesus' closest disciples were right there, but they can't seem to agree on what the simple facts are concerning the death of God's Son. Why are the facts so convoluted? It seems likely to me that the evangelists had various and sometimes conflicting motives.
How do you know he said that? It only occurs in one gospel, the same writer who invents the unique "birth in a manger", the star of Bethlehem and Maji and traces Jesus's bloodline all the way back to Adam.
I enjoyed this as I normally do when Bart talks about these things. I also couldn't help but notice that the host sounds a little like the teacher from Beavis and Butthead! I enjoyed his questions as well.
The show does seem to fixate on their version of Hell. I'm not wholly convinced that the ultimate 'reward' they find isn't just another disguised punishment. I found the show funny and inventive, until they tried to turn it into a romance story about 2 people. Obvious change in writers / writing.
Arguably (?), the formula for the circumference of a circle was _discovered_ , not invented. (And it was Archimedes who done it, by the way.) There are metaphysical discussions one might have about _why_ there are mathematics at all, but i don’t think it could be argued that Archimedes invented them. His discovery of pi simply involves the ratio of the perimeter of a circle to its diameter, and it (pi) appears in an uncountable number of other equations describing phenomena in the physical universe. Pi is a valid element of objective reality. Heaven and hell, on the other hand, actually _are_ inventions, like the Geiko Gecko and the Pillsbury Doughboy (He has risen, btw), which did not exist as concepts prior to their invention. Like any anthropocentric concepts, they are based on secular phenomena that fall directly within the realm of earthly experience (such as virgins for carnal pleasure, streets paved with gold, reuniting with lost loved ones, lakes of fire, etc.) none of which may have even a theological foundation. I mentioned the Geiko Gecko and Pillsbury Doughboy because these were successful marketing strategies. There can be no question that Christianity has been a huge marketing success, dating back as far as the mid- to late 1st century C.E. Numerous other marketing inventions have contributed toward this success as well, more recently the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus, although arguably none more influential than heaven and hell. Religion is ultimately a free marketplace of ideas intended to address human anxieties and desire to understand causal relationships. In the realm of the untestable and unverifiable-the ontology where religion resides-those concepts having the greatest market appeal are the winners! Doesn’t make ‘em true though.
@Sedwick Religion is ultimately a free marketplace of ideas intended to address human anxieties and desire to understand causal relationships. In the realm of the untestable and unverifiable-the ontology where religion resides-those concepts having the greatest market appeal are the winners! Doesn’t make ‘em true though.- PERFECTLY SAID!
I recently have rewatched a lot of lectures here on youtube. I wonder if you also do any work on the the Old Testament? I'm wondering if you have any thoughts on Genisis 1:1 in the original Hebrew saying the Elohim (not Yahweh) creating the heaven and the earth? From my understanding is Elohim can be translated as Gods & Godesses, or a dual gendered diety. Genesis 1:26 seems to back that up with And God said, let us make man in OUR image.
Enigmatic constructions to be sure. Often interpreted to be relict text inherited from a polytheist culture. There are numerous other references to multiple gods as well. Monotheism may have evolved later in course of time the TNK was assembled.
The word Elohim is used to refer to both a singular and plural. In Genesis, it uses the word Elohim all throughout chapter 1 and 2. But the verb tenses are all singular. For example, in 1:26 it says, “Let us make man in our image” then in verse 27 it reads, “Elohim created (He created | 3rd person singular) man in His own image.” Just because the word can refer to plural doesn’t mean it always does. You base it off of the verb tenses. Especially when you can tell in context whether it’s talking about 1 person or a plurality or person.
Hi Bart, I am a fan of yours and recently bought your book "Forged." I haven't read this new one yet. I am curious, do you address the ideas of the afterlife in Zoroastrianism and how these ideas may have influenced the early Jews? Judah was a Persian province for many years, and I find it likely that many Jewish ideas were influenced by Zoroastrianism. Such as: maybe heaven and hell, universal salvation as opposed to the gods of one ethnic group, good vs evil struggle, the devil, and so on. Would love to hear your thoughts on this.
(12:06) It's interesting that you prayed about leaving the faith. It seems like an unnecessary thing to do considering that there is nothing there to pray to (supposedly).
It's important to distinguish between a belief in a life after death in general versus a particular notion of life after death. Does the concept of life after death exist in the Old Testament or in the teachings of the historical Jesus? Yes. Do the concepts of heaven as a place of eternal bliss for all righteous and hell as a place of eternal torment for all sinners exist in the OT or Jesus' teachings? Not really. Dr. Ehrman is correct in his book that these ideas stem more from the theodictic problems with which philosophers such as Socrates and Plato dealt. But something that Ehrman doesn't touch on in his book -- probably because it's outside of his bailiwick -- was that these ideas (i.e. of eternal bliss for the virtuous and eternal torment for the sinners) was part of the intellectual zeitgeist of the Achaemenid era. Namely, this notion of the afterlife can be seen, at least in incipient form, as early as the 6th century, from the Aegean to the Ganges. However, each intellectual culture in between had their own take on the idea. For instance, the Indians incorporated the notion of samsara and reincarnation into the mix (and Plato also suggested a notion of the transmigration of souls in some of his philosophy). The Zoroastrians who controlled the Achaemenid Empire itself, however, had an inchoate notion of an end times cosmic battle, after which the dead will be judged. This idea is similar to the later ideas in Judaism and Christianity of a final eschaton, mass resurrection and judgment.
Wow this is so interesting! The earliest similarity to hell I knew was from the Greeks and their beliefs on Hades and the underworld in like 700 BC. I definitely would like to research more on this, it’s very intriguing. Where did you find this information?
All you have to do is your homework and you’ll find out how phony the New Testament is But don’t tell a Christian because that’s their life blood the old hell fire and oh yea the offering plate
Maybe "God's" mercy is fiercer than "his" desire for justice, and he understands how weak and perverse he's created us. Or maybe simple common sense requires negation of belief in heaven and hell. However you get there, I thoroughly enjoyed reading your book to understand the historical evolution of an idea which, coincidentally, also undermines any required belief in the trials and tribulations of an afterlife. All your books have been a blessing to this small, anonymous life of mine.
Listening to your interpritation of the Sheep and the Goats. Is this just pretty much what CS Lewis taught in the Cronicals of Narnia, the Last Battle?
And when he came to it, he was called, "O Moses, Indeed, I am your Lord, so remove your sandals. Indeed, you are in the sacred valley of Tuwa. And I have chosen you, so listen to what is revealed [to you]. Indeed, I am God . There is no deity except Me, so worship Me and establish prayer for My remembrance. Indeed, the Hour is coming - I almost conceal it - so that every soul may be recompensed according to that for which it strives. -Sura Ta-Ha, Ayah 11-15 The very first words Moses headd from God included the coming of the hour, where we'll be recompensed for what we used to do.The fact that the afterlife is not on the "five books of moses" doesn't mean Moses never warned his people
Hey Bart,why are people shamed so hard for saying they don't believe in parts of the Christian bible? I mean sometimes fellow church members will aggressively get rude if you even question the scriptures,and how does someone deal with them in a civil manner?
There are many problems with Bart Eherman’s arguments. When he debates a Christian theologian, he decimates the theologian. This is expected because a theologian cannot think out of the box and hence uses circular reasoning. But many non-theologians, non-Christians can see the weakness of Eherman’s arguments. Lawyers and paralegals especially can easily decimate Bart by using rules of evidence.
I love his writings. I don't agree with no after life. He Will see when he crosses. You will sleep cause that's your belief but eventually angels wake u from your falcities.
If you want an impoverished nation then you follow the teachings of Bart Ehrman. If you want a prosperous nation then you follow the rules of William Bradford, Karl Marx gave us Russia. William Bradford gave us the USA. Which would you rather have?
I want to see you debate Bob Larson, or the Evangelical Christian TV personalities! I'm a Christian, but Bart is extremely more qualified to interpret the holy texts.
Dr.Ehrman, do you think Paul necessarily spoke of his new body after death to be given instantly after death? Surely he did not speak of his spiritual, new body as received instantly at death! But spoke of his next moment of conscious agency, upon Christs return at the resurrection when we who are alive and remain TOGETHER are gathered! He spoke elsewhere of the new body being bestowed on the last day. Rendering the common Christian idea of Pauls statement incorrect. To be with Christ comes later in earthly time then instantaneously at death. Its just logical Paul would mean it in the way I have suggested. This is consistent with the other facts which you point out in the erroneous ways Christians have commonly misunderstood biblical teaching.
Why God allows suffering, The Answer is simple? And it's there in the beginning of the Bible, Adam and Eve paid The price, when they ate from the tree of Good and Evil. What did God say? " The day you eat of it you shall die " by the way Your book on Christianites is great :)
i believe in heaven, but i dont believe we go in there after we die. and Hell means a grave... if Jesus return... we are going to be ressurected, just like what God did to Jesus.
Jamie Russell , your comment makes me really curious. I’ve searched both the Hebrew and Christian Bibles in detail but I can’t find any reference to abortion or similar. I find only Onan’s sin of “spilling his seed on the ground.” On the other side of the issue, I see that the Hebrew God had no restrictions on killing babies. Can you tell me where to find more biblical references to actual abortion? Of course we read his counsel to Moses to “choose life” but that’s a different context altogether. If you know of clear biblical references I hope you’ll let me know. Thanks very much.
@@noaheinstein2369 exodus 21:22-23 in the right context it's life for life for both mother or child + Jeremiah 1:5 God acknowledges life in the womb judges 13:2-5 ; psamls 22:9-10 ; isaiah 49:1-5; Genesis 25:22-26 ; Luke 1:15-17
He is not biblical. I have a cousin who died and appeared as a ghost. We talked to him that he was dead and told him to follow the light and he disappeared. This Bart guy does not know what he is talking about and he will take a lot of people with him.
Well, Dr. Bart, I'm a bit disappointed that you don't 'believe' in deity. Not that you are incorrect but that it is impossible to prove that disbelief, as pseudo-science attempts to preach. Naturally, the same attempts of pseudo-religion are equally Unknowable. Only Pascalism, (Agnosticism) shelves the belief and faith of either side of that same 'coin' :) This universe is filled to the brim with Design, and which science attempts to deny via Chaos - what an illogical mess they make by even having the exact science of Physics which contradicts their pseudo-religious expostulations called, Cosmology. Even Biology must ignore design to just-follow-orders :) Anyway, I've proved to myself that the Soul does exist by the every action of our bodies electrochemical existence providing 'Data' from millions, billions of chemical reactions in every cell of all living creatures, and which is evident in even a sparrow's fall (death). The material body becomes its constituent material elements but the 'Data' is eternal as the electromagnetic 'radiation' created during the entirety of its material existence and which science theorizes can only be changed and not destroyed. I believe in Design (the Known) and not an entity which cannot be known; unless finite minds become the totality of Design ... not too soon in happening considering the universes' size and the myriad of life it must hold ... cat's and dog's, etc. :) However, I sure respect your Theological expertise and commentary and which with most of it, I certainly agree. Keep up the good work and consider Pascal's 'Wager', which will allow the freedom from those beliefs and faith which cannot be proven. The 'Bet' doesn't require faith, but can't sneer at belief(s) about the material universe that can be known. Besides, that the 'Golden Rule' is a wonderful philosophy to practice for ourselves and others to follow and a good result for humankind issuing out of Galilee; as well as most other religions ἀμήν :)
Dr. Ehrman, Don't you think you're a bit unhinged in your war on Christianity? I was once an atheist and listened to many sides and became a Christian. I have read many of your books, have read counters to them, and see your efforts as purely anti-Christian no matter what you claim to the contrary. Your apostasy is a matter of what you have chosen. Why the need to convert everyone to Erhmanity?
I think you must have meant to address your comment to Dr. Strawman Ehrman, who has done all those awful things and worse. I even heard he was involved in the Pizzagate child porn network. The present video, however, was posted by the REAL Dr. Ehrman, who merely wishes to share his personal insights and scholarship with anyone who is interested.
I don't believe Dr. Ehrman is part of a "war on Christianity". I think he's very much pro truth and his research has led him away from Christianity. You cannot choose what you believe.
Atheism Is A Hate Crime, sorry but Bart supports the concept of church and religious communities, be they Judaic, Christian, etc. why do you think he or anyone is “making war” on Christianity simply because they examine the history, context, and applications of sacred texts? Jewish scholars and teachers do the same work with the Hebrew Bible, but fellow Jews never see this serious scholarship as “attacking” Judaism. On the contrary, they revere the scholar who challenges because it leads to deeper textual understanding. Is this not acceptable to you? If not, why not? If you’ve studied the sacred texts, then you know that the concept of enlightenment was critically important to Jesus. It was the church, not Jesus, who later banned enlightenment (see Dark Ages). This has been sorely missing from Christianity because so many Christians are frankly insecure about their faith and hence they resist enlightenment at all levels because it feels personally threatening. Further, studying any sacred text critically should never be confused with attacking religion.
Bart erhman, m your fan but at the same time, there is no book which is greater than Bible in the world.It has so much which will help us to live a good life in this immoral world.So, don't stop reading Bible and following it .Keep doing , keep praying who knows, Bart may one day turn back to God irrespective of any histological evidence..
I can listen to Dr.Bart Ehrman all day.
I'm reading this book right now and I can say it's one of the best I've read from Ehrman. It's time for the awful teaching of eternal hell to be buried forever!
It is really amazing that modern people still conflate delayed judgement with "justice", even in countries where the judicial system is NOT based on delaying justice as much as posible, but quite the contrary.
Delayed justice is injustice. Any just God should know that.
Would be great to see Bart come closer to the modern era and take an in-depth look at the histriocity of the prosperity gospel and it's disservice to humanity.
Who deserves to be tortured forever ?
No one at all.
Which really is why I don't get why people think they do.
It's been so drilled into their head like a cult........it was just a way to control the masses.
I know right?! It makes no sense whatsoever. People claim god is so merciful and just but sending your own children to an eternity of torture is not mercy or justice!
Thank you for the very important work you do Bart. I wish Christians would read your books. Well, who am i kidding, the vast majority of Christians have never even read the Bible.
I just ordered this book yesterday. I cannot wait to begin reading it.
I'll buy it used.
It’s a very nice book I highly recommend it. I’m about halfway through right now
Bart Ehrman killing the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment one interview at a time!
Was sure (as either Hitchens or Dawkins said) Jesus was the first one to introrduce Hell, seemed to say a lot about it,Bart must be using a different
interpretiaton then others
Go ahead and try to dismantle every scripture I gave about eternal hell fire..Bart can't save you..
Eleanor Shellstrop is the protagonist of The Good Place, played by Kristen Bell. Sorry to nitpick, but she doesn't end up in heaven by mistake. She ends up in hell and part of the torture is to convince her that she is in "The Good Place" with all her wishes being granted in a way designed to annoy and perplex her. This leads her to figure out, repeatedly as the torture scene has to be reset and restarted thousands of times, that she is actually in "The Bad Place". [spoiler] Eleanor and her three damned friends finally convince the demon assigned to torture them (played by Ted Danson) that no human can be bad enough to deserve eternal torture. Amazing!
It’s been no mystery to bible scholars that the ideas of heaven and hell were late additions to Jewish thought post-exile. Surely god would have mentioned both a bit earlier, somewhere in the Torah, for example.
Exactly
THIS 👏👏👏
I understood and I think Bart is right but, who can explain the paranormal phenomena that were caught on rooms with souls (ghosts) haunting certain places? I think nobody knows anything, only hypotheses and if the vegetation and plants hibernate and return to spring life the more the man?
SuperDukka That’s so cool! I’ve only done research on near death experiences and the similar things people see based on their beliefs. I just think heaven and hell is such an all or nothing fallacy, I mean at this rate, most people will end up there, it just makes no sense that god would send his own children to such a place for what they were born into. Also, I was wondering if you have any good evidence to disprove the heaven and hell doctrine? I know it can’t actually be disproven because we can’t see them but good historical evidence against it? I have some but I need more for a good argument and you seem to know what you’re talking about.
What was Jesus talking about when He said “ this day you will be with me in paradise” to the thief on the cross?
The better question is "Someone added verses to these holy texts many years after they were completed, saying that Jesus said this thing. They obviously were not witnesses to this event so it is apocrypyhal - why did early church members need this addition to their early Bible? What person or persons began the invention of the after-life reward?"
Do critical scholars accept that as one of the things Jesus actually said?
Interesting that John and Acts say that Jesus arose into heaven 40 days later. The exchange about paradise with the "good thief" is only in Luke, while Matthew and Mark only say that "two rebels" were crucified with Jesus, not thieves (thievery was not a capital offense, although being a rebel against Rome was a capital crime - Rome loved to display the rotting corpses of crucified rebels just outside the city gates). In Mark and Matthew, the two rebels "heaped insults" or "taunted" Jesus. So, both were bad, with no "good thief" recorded as defending Jesus. John's gospel only says, "There they crucified him and with him two others-one on each side". It seems odd that it is recorded that some of Jesus' closest disciples were right there, but they can't seem to agree on what the simple facts are concerning the death of God's Son. Why are the facts so convoluted? It seems likely to me that the evangelists had various and sometimes conflicting motives.
How do you know he said that? It only occurs in one gospel, the same writer who invents the unique "birth in a manger", the star of Bethlehem and Maji and traces Jesus's bloodline all the way back to Adam.
@@gregmotter53 nope
I enjoyed this as I normally do when Bart talks about these things. I also couldn't help but notice that the host sounds a little like the teacher from Beavis and Butthead! I enjoyed his questions as well.
I just got this book! So excited to read it!
Thanks so much for posting these interviews. I look forward to reading your new book.
3:00 "The Bad Place, that's one of our favorite shows!" It's called The Good Place lmao.
The show does seem to fixate on their version of Hell. I'm not wholly convinced that the ultimate 'reward' they find isn't just another disguised punishment. I found the show funny and inventive, until they tried to turn it into a romance story about 2 people. Obvious change in writers / writing.
@@Uncle-Mike The show's producers were probably hearing too many complaints from fundamentalist American Christians.
Arguably (?), the formula for the circumference of a circle was _discovered_ , not invented. (And it was Archimedes who done it, by the way.) There are metaphysical discussions one might have about _why_ there are mathematics at all, but i don’t think it could be argued that Archimedes invented them. His discovery of pi simply involves the ratio of the perimeter of a circle to its diameter, and it (pi) appears in an uncountable number of other equations describing phenomena in the physical universe. Pi is a valid element of objective reality.
Heaven and hell, on the other hand, actually _are_ inventions, like the Geiko Gecko and the Pillsbury Doughboy (He has risen, btw), which did not exist as concepts prior to their invention.
Like any anthropocentric concepts, they are based on secular phenomena that fall directly within the realm of earthly experience (such as virgins for carnal pleasure, streets paved with gold, reuniting with lost loved ones, lakes of fire, etc.) none of which may have even a theological foundation.
I mentioned the Geiko Gecko and Pillsbury Doughboy because these were successful marketing strategies. There can be no question that Christianity has been a huge marketing success, dating back as far as the mid- to late 1st century C.E. Numerous other marketing inventions have contributed toward this success as well, more recently the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus, although arguably none more influential than heaven and hell.
Religion is ultimately a free marketplace of ideas intended to address human anxieties and desire to understand causal relationships. In the realm of the untestable and unverifiable-the ontology where religion resides-those concepts having the greatest market appeal are the winners! Doesn’t make ‘em true though.
@Sedwick
Religion is ultimately a free marketplace of ideas intended to address human anxieties and desire to understand causal relationships. In the realm of the untestable and unverifiable-the ontology where religion resides-those concepts having the greatest market appeal are the winners! Doesn’t make ‘em true though.- PERFECTLY SAID!
Sedwick Sad, but probably true. Same thing in academics today, too often. Successful professors have the best “radar”.
I recently have rewatched a lot of lectures here on youtube. I wonder if you also do any work on the the Old Testament? I'm wondering if you have any thoughts on Genisis 1:1 in the original Hebrew saying the Elohim (not Yahweh) creating the heaven and the earth? From my understanding is Elohim can be translated as Gods & Godesses, or a dual gendered diety. Genesis 1:26 seems to back that up with And God said, let us make man in OUR image.
Enigmatic constructions to be sure. Often interpreted to be relict text inherited from a polytheist culture. There are numerous other references to multiple gods as well. Monotheism may have evolved later in course of time the TNK was assembled.
The word Elohim is used to refer to both a singular and plural. In Genesis, it uses the word Elohim all throughout chapter 1 and 2. But the verb tenses are all singular. For example, in 1:26 it says, “Let us make man in our image” then in verse 27 it reads, “Elohim created (He created | 3rd person singular) man in His own image.” Just because the word can refer to plural doesn’t mean it always does. You base it off of the verb tenses. Especially when you can tell in context whether it’s talking about 1 person or a plurality or person.
Hi Bart, I am a fan of yours and recently bought your book "Forged." I haven't read this new one yet. I am curious, do you address the ideas of the afterlife in Zoroastrianism and how these ideas may have influenced the early Jews? Judah was a Persian province for many years, and I find it likely that many Jewish ideas were influenced by Zoroastrianism. Such as: maybe heaven and hell, universal salvation as opposed to the gods of one ethnic group, good vs evil struggle, the devil, and so on. Would love to hear your thoughts on this.
Professor Ehrman, can you please explain what it means TO BE BORN AGAIN in your born again experience?
Think Judas Iscariot.
I just wish there could be 100% proof there is no afterlife and consequence. Would make things a lot easier. Almost instant nirvana.
Sammme, death doesn’t scare me, it’s what happens after. I really think everything will be okay in the end 💖
There’s another book called heaven and hell written by Emanuel Swedenborg in Sweden in the 1700s. Now that one was a good book.
An ancient Swedish Borg? Now we know the real reason why the Vasa sank.
(12:06) It's interesting that you prayed about leaving the faith. It seems like an unnecessary thing to do considering that there is nothing there to pray to (supposedly).
When I walk out on a job, I still let the boss know, even if I have no concern about exit interview, money, etc. It's just professional courtesy.
Mazel tov, Dr Ehrman you just described what it means to be Jewish at the end. Live the best life now, while your alive!
It's important to distinguish between a belief in a life after death in general versus a particular notion of life after death. Does the concept of life after death exist in the Old Testament or in the teachings of the historical Jesus? Yes. Do the concepts of heaven as a place of eternal bliss for all righteous and hell as a place of eternal torment for all sinners exist in the OT or Jesus' teachings? Not really. Dr. Ehrman is correct in his book that these ideas stem more from the theodictic problems with which philosophers such as Socrates and Plato dealt.
But something that Ehrman doesn't touch on in his book -- probably because it's outside of his bailiwick -- was that these ideas (i.e. of eternal bliss for the virtuous and eternal torment for the sinners) was part of the intellectual zeitgeist of the Achaemenid era. Namely, this notion of the afterlife can be seen, at least in incipient form, as early as the 6th century, from the Aegean to the Ganges. However, each intellectual culture in between had their own take on the idea. For instance, the Indians incorporated the notion of samsara and reincarnation into the mix (and Plato also suggested a notion of the transmigration of souls in some of his philosophy). The Zoroastrians who controlled the Achaemenid Empire itself, however, had an inchoate notion of an end times cosmic battle, after which the dead will be judged. This idea is similar to the later ideas in Judaism and Christianity of a final eschaton, mass resurrection and judgment.
Yes ,there's nothing original in biblical stories.
Wow this is so interesting! The earliest similarity to hell I knew was from the Greeks and their beliefs on Hades and the underworld in like 700 BC. I definitely would like to research more on this, it’s very intriguing. Where did you find this information?
Is John of Patmos the Apostle John and is Revelation in its current content historical fact?
All you have to do is your homework and you’ll find out how phony the New Testament is But don’t tell a Christian because that’s their life blood the old hell fire and oh yea the offering plate
Is Dr. Ehrman a modern day Sadducee? Would that be a possible comparison?
Maybe "God's" mercy is fiercer than "his" desire for justice, and he understands how weak and perverse he's created us. Or maybe simple common sense requires negation of belief in heaven and hell. However you get there, I thoroughly enjoyed reading your book to understand the historical evolution of an idea which, coincidentally, also undermines any required belief in the trials and tribulations of an afterlife. All your books have been a blessing to this small, anonymous life of mine.
Listening to your interpritation of the Sheep and the Goats. Is this just pretty much what CS Lewis taught in the Cronicals of Narnia, the Last Battle?
Reading the book right now. Really enjoying it! Origen believed what the Mormons believe? Preexististance of souls?
And when he came to it, he was called, "O Moses,
Indeed, I am your Lord, so remove your sandals. Indeed, you are in the sacred valley of Tuwa.
And I have chosen you, so listen to what is revealed [to you].
Indeed, I am God . There is no deity except Me, so worship Me and establish prayer for My remembrance.
Indeed, the Hour is coming - I almost conceal it - so that every soul may be recompensed according to that for which it strives.
-Sura Ta-Ha, Ayah 11-15
The very first words Moses headd from God included the coming of the hour, where we'll be recompensed for what we used to do.The fact that the afterlife is not on the "five books of moses" doesn't mean Moses never warned his people
Hey, i’m one of his people, and he never warned me! Piss me off. 😡 Why am i always the last one to hear about these things.
Not mentioned? You must have a very different Bible to the one I have.
The concept of heaven and hell are what makes Christianity and Islam so dangerous.
Dear Paul and Bart, it's The Good Place, not The Bad Place.
Take a poll about how many people believe in "astro-naughts to the moon" outside of the Saturday Night Live skit!
Bart is no joke. Even the gnostic stuff he knows. Yet he doesn't believe and this speaks volumes imo.
Why should his beliefs carry any weight?
Hey Bart,why are people shamed so hard for saying they don't believe in parts of the Christian bible? I mean sometimes fellow church members will aggressively get rude if you even question the scriptures,and how does someone deal with them in a civil manner?
Great fan of your work dr. Erhman. I am an atheist myself, from Brazil.
...eye opening as usual...Great work Dr Ehrman
Blind leading the blind.
There are many problems with Bart Eherman’s arguments. When he debates a Christian theologian, he decimates the theologian. This is expected because a theologian cannot think out of the box and hence uses circular reasoning. But many non-theologians, non-Christians can see the weakness of Eherman’s arguments. Lawyers and paralegals especially can easily decimate Bart by using rules of evidence.
I love his writings. I don't agree with no after life. He Will see when he crosses. You will sleep cause that's your belief but eventually angels wake u from your falcities.
Where are you getting your info?
If you want an impoverished nation then you follow the teachings of Bart Ehrman. If you want a prosperous nation then you follow the rules of William Bradford, Karl Marx gave us Russia. William Bradford gave us the USA. Which would you rather have?
I want to see you debate Bob Larson, or the Evangelical Christian TV personalities! I'm a Christian, but Bart is extremely more qualified to interpret the holy texts.
Dr.Ehrman, do you think Paul necessarily spoke of his new body after death to be given instantly after death? Surely he did not speak of his spiritual, new body as received instantly at death! But spoke of his next moment of conscious agency, upon Christs return at the resurrection when we who are alive and remain TOGETHER are gathered!
He spoke elsewhere of the new body being bestowed on the last day. Rendering the common Christian idea of Pauls statement incorrect. To be with Christ comes later in earthly time then instantaneously at death. Its just logical Paul would mean it in the way I have suggested.
This is consistent with the other facts which you point out in the erroneous ways Christians have commonly misunderstood biblical teaching.
Much of the Christian concept of Hell is from Dante, no?
Why God allows suffering, The Answer is simple? And it's there in the beginning of the Bible, Adam and Eve paid The price, when they ate from the tree of Good and Evil. What did God say? " The day you eat of it you shall die " by the way Your book on Christianites is great :)
It does sound like someone has shrunk Bart and put him in a little bottle, very echoey
i believe in heaven, but i dont believe we go in there after we die. and Hell means a grave... if Jesus return... we are going to be ressurected, just like what God did to Jesus.
Its amazing the Atheist often is cool with abortion when one considers the sentiment Dr.Ehrman has articulated. I bet he is ProLife.
Jamie Russell , your comment makes me really curious. I’ve searched both the Hebrew and Christian Bibles in detail but I can’t find any reference to abortion or similar. I find only Onan’s sin of “spilling his seed on the ground.” On the other side of the issue, I see that the Hebrew God had no restrictions on killing babies. Can you tell me where to find more biblical references to actual abortion? Of course we read his counsel to Moses to “choose life” but that’s a different context altogether. If you know of clear biblical references I hope you’ll let me know. Thanks very much.
@@noaheinstein2369 exodus 21:22-23 in the right context it's life for life for both mother or child + Jeremiah 1:5 God acknowledges life in the womb judges 13:2-5 ; psamls 22:9-10 ; isaiah 49:1-5; Genesis 25:22-26 ; Luke 1:15-17
Anti-abortion, not pro-life you mean. I’m sure you are as most Charismatic or Fundamentalist Christians are all in for capital punishment.
Bart, thank you, as always “biblical” 👍🌈💫
He is not biblical. I have a cousin who died and appeared as a ghost. We talked to him that he was dead and told him to follow the light and he disappeared. This Bart guy does not know what he is talking about and he will take a lot of people with him.
Can't even get the name of "The Good Place" right.
I want to send this book to Franklin Graham!
Well, Dr. Bart, I'm a bit disappointed that you don't 'believe' in deity. Not that you are incorrect but that it is impossible to prove that disbelief, as pseudo-science attempts to preach. Naturally, the same attempts of pseudo-religion are equally Unknowable. Only Pascalism, (Agnosticism) shelves the belief and faith of either side of that same 'coin' :) This universe is filled to the brim with Design, and which science attempts to deny via Chaos - what an illogical mess they make by even having the exact science of Physics which contradicts their pseudo-religious expostulations called, Cosmology. Even Biology must ignore design to just-follow-orders :)
Anyway, I've proved to myself that the Soul does exist by the every action of our bodies electrochemical existence providing 'Data' from millions, billions of chemical reactions in every cell of all living creatures, and which is evident in even a sparrow's fall (death). The material body becomes its constituent material elements but the 'Data' is eternal as the electromagnetic 'radiation' created during the entirety of its material existence and which science theorizes can only be changed and not destroyed.
I believe in Design (the Known) and not an entity which cannot be known; unless finite minds become the totality of Design ... not too soon in happening considering the universes' size and the myriad of life it must hold ... cat's and dog's, etc. :)
However, I sure respect your Theological expertise and commentary and which with most of it, I certainly agree. Keep up the good work and consider Pascal's 'Wager', which will allow the freedom from those beliefs and faith which cannot be proven. The 'Bet' doesn't require faith, but can't sneer at belief(s) about the material universe that can be known.
Besides, that the 'Golden Rule' is a wonderful philosophy to practice for ourselves and others to follow and a good result for humankind issuing out of Galilee; as well as most other religions ἀμήν :)
It's psyche
Dr. Ehrman, Don't you think you're a bit unhinged in your war on Christianity? I was once an atheist and listened to many sides and became a Christian. I have read many of your books, have read counters to them, and see your efforts as purely anti-Christian no matter what you claim to the contrary. Your apostasy is a matter of what you have chosen. Why the need to convert everyone to Erhmanity?
I think you must have meant to address your comment to Dr. Strawman Ehrman, who has done all those awful things and worse. I even heard he was involved in the Pizzagate child porn network. The present video, however, was posted by the REAL Dr. Ehrman, who merely wishes to share his personal insights and scholarship with anyone who is interested.
I don't believe Dr. Ehrman is part of a "war on Christianity". I think he's very much pro truth and his research has led him away from Christianity. You cannot choose what you believe.
Atheism Is A Hate Crime, sorry but Bart supports the concept of church and religious communities, be they Judaic, Christian, etc. why do you think he or anyone is “making war” on Christianity simply because they examine the history, context, and applications of sacred texts? Jewish scholars and teachers do the same work with the Hebrew Bible, but fellow Jews never see this serious scholarship as “attacking” Judaism. On the contrary, they revere the scholar who challenges because it leads to deeper textual understanding. Is this not acceptable to you? If not, why not? If you’ve studied the sacred texts, then you know that the concept of enlightenment was critically important to Jesus. It was the church, not Jesus, who later banned enlightenment (see Dark Ages). This has been sorely missing from Christianity because so many Christians are frankly insecure about their faith and hence they resist enlightenment at all levels because it feels personally threatening. Further, studying any sacred text critically should never be confused with attacking religion.
That's what people do. They become scholarly in a field, then they try to persuade others what they've learned.... Also make money on their efforts.
Bart erhman, m your fan but at the same time, there is no book which is greater than Bible in the world.It has so much which will help us to live a good life in this immoral world.So, don't stop reading Bible and following it .Keep doing , keep praying who knows, Bart may one day turn back to God irrespective of any histological evidence..