Is Britain A Christian Country? (The Big Questions ft. Richard Dawkins) (Part 1)
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- Опубликовано: 26 авг 2024
- Nicky Campbell hosts BBC One's Sunday morning debate show that focuses on religion, society and politics. Nicky asks "Is Britain a Christian Country", after recent research from the Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science, and Ipsos Mori, suggested Christianity is on the wane and losing its influence. Among those debating are Richard Dawkins, Andrew Copson, Cole Moreton, Jonathan Bartley, Cristina Odone, Majid Katme and Raza Nadim. (BBC The Big Questions, 19th February, 2012)
Morality: Doing what is right, regardless of what you're told
Religion: Doing what you're told, regardless of what is right
And who decides that Morality? Your own fallible being?
What's the meaning of right ?
Do you really think you can define what is right? 😁
"our language comes from the Bible" eh? did she really say that? Fuck me, I never knew I could speak Hewbrew
that was my first reaction as well...this woman HAD to have taken a trip to the US where they brainwashed her into believing that
Shivan Ramoutar She repeats it on the other video as well and still no one calls her out. Even if you just count the new testament, that was written in Greco/Roman Latin text - hundreds of years after the Roman conquest of Britain. How can people be this stupid!!!
If you had read the Bible you would have at least noted that many figures of speech in our language today come from the Bible.
who else find richard dawkins smile/smirk funny?
Be an atheist and I have been told I definitely will go to hell despite being a decent human being. Be a murderer (or worse..!), find forgiveness and accept god and get a chance of eternal bliss. What a jealous, power crazed and unjust character even if he does exist, I will gladly go to hell on fucking principle…………….
***** Plus its a great bargaining chip if your a rich land owner on your death bed and want a ticket out of the oven. Thats why the church has so much land and wealth, so in away hell has built a lot of churches, irony..
'When was the last time I threw a bomb' is an argument ender
I see Britain as a football country.I like Premier League.
Whenever I have a moral dilemma I turn to Santi Cazorla.
LOL "When was the last time I threw a bomb?" Hilarious question.
I was laughed about; 'Is God Still An Englishman? ' ( I was laughed, because in Russia Russian people thinks " God is an Russian', In Georgia Georgian people thinks ' Jesus was an Georgian" :D
That was actually a pretty informative, respectful, and well-conducted debate. Thankfully, nothing like the spittle-flecked screaming matches we televise here the states.
Language comes from the bible? My ears are not deceiving me are they? Last time I checked we spoke English not Hebrew.
+Hasan Hanif I don't think she meant literal language... I think she meant something like speaking through the bible, speaking with the bible in mind. Something like that, not literally.
"The everyday language we use is from the Bible"
...some people just get on my nerves so darn much.
11:38 "Everything from the language that we use everyday comes from the bible." - Sorry, but the bible has been translated many times for us to be able to read it.
I was just thinking the same thing. Thanks for saving me the time of also pointing that out.
actually...there is only one step in the translation..
In the new testament
Greek>English
Greek>French
Greek>German....etc..etc(you get the point)
In the old Testement
Hebrew>English
Hebrew>French
Hebrew.German..etc..etc
And we have actual physical remains of the original texts...and...it has not changed.
studmalexy you say that it hasn't changed, and still I've seen those changes. But that was some time ago.
Also: I don't know about english, but several other languages have been translated many times. For example swedish has been translated to more modern swedish, because the language changes over time, just like the meaning of the words does.
It has been changed many times.
I believe they may have been talking about the many idioms or proverbs that are found in the bible e.g. a leopard cannot change his spots, merry heart is as medicine, the teeth is set on the edge, grapes of wrath etc etc.
For a many years the bible was a key book in people reading in language classes. It was translated at the height of language translated in the times when English literature was at it's classic times and at the height of concision and efficacy as well as elegance.
@pastyfacial IMO he's the most precise and considered speaker I've ever heard. Pity many interpret this ability as 'coldness', 'aloofness' etc rather than simple, wonderful PRECISION.
Welcome aboard! We're a group that argues amongst ourselves but we will absolutely stand up for your right to ask questions and use logic. It's always nice to have someone else join Team Reason!
excited to have you on board!
Freedom of speech is NOT an "intellectual bomb" Arguing against religion does not make anyone a fundamentalist.
I love you, Dawkins
I never said there was oversight in both houses, but you can't deny that there is oversight in parliament with the Lords Spiritual. The Queen is a member of the church (as required by law).
"Only 2 million people regularly attend the Sunday service anymore."
You know as well as I do that the definition of Christian in the popular consciousness is vague enough to void attending church as a defining factor.
It's Andrew Copson, Chief Executive of the British Humanist Society.
Also, just to clarify, despite the slightly strange decision to ask me about the virgin birth, I'm not a spokesman for any kind of Church. Far from it. I'm an observer, trying to work out where we stand and where we're going. That's all.
good point indeed, a friend was baptised at birth, then when filling out census forms his mother was outraged when he stated he was atheist. He didnt even know he had been baptised!
Welcome to the team :)
welcome to the club. i joined a year ago. you're gonna love it.
Welcome, I've been here three years now, and I can assure you it's amazing :D
"When was the last time I threw a bomb" haahahah epic response.
We don't want everyone to not believe in God, we just want the public, not just a select few, to be sceptical about it.
A lot of people say they are christian, a small amount truly are though.
exactly! My first video of dawkins that i saw on youtube was his first run in with bill o'reily. I almost stood up and applauded him for standing up for what was REAL in this world. Thats when i realized it was okay NOT to believe. It wasnt much time later i educated myself and became a knowledgable atheist, capable of handling religious bullies.
I'm a Baptist we believe in the separation from church and state because there are verses that would say so!
Yes indeed welcome, I was born a religious person, around religious people, could never think about whether there is a god, then when I concluded there is no god(due to common sense) I wasn't even aware of such a thing called "Atheism"(because I was around religious people and that I was 10) now I am 17 happy to know there is an 'Atheist team', happy to be part of it. :)
I am an atheist, but its a fact that an entire atheist population would be riddled with despair, scaredness. religion gives hope and purpose to a lot of good, decent people in this country, and as long as its not thrust down the throats of the rest of us; its fine for me
We MILITANT secularists want a country that is inclusive of ALL people, a country that represents ALL, REGARDLESS of their religiousity.
I feel compelled to watch programs like this despite knowing in advance that in all probability it will make me feel depressed for humanity.
"Is Britain A Christian Country?"
Yes, it is.
When we have a Christian monarch, Church oversight in Parliament, and hundreds of churches all over the country with Christianity being the religion of 40-50% of the country, yes I'd say we're a Christian country - historically and presently.
I wish they had shows like these in America.
I may have misheard her, but
@11:40 she says that English comes from the Bible. WTF. The Bible was not written in English. That is why it needed to be translated, and that is why there are many translated versions.
The intro makes me feel like I'm watching a 70's action TV show.
Question: How does our language come from the Bible? Unless she is referring to the rather colloquial uses of "Jesus" and "God" as exclamations when we are exasperated, or the biblical proverbs/allusions that are used infrequently in English, she is entirely wrong by saying that our language comes from the Bible. The Bible was written in Classical Hebrew, Aramaic and Koine Greek. English is a member of the family (PIE), but is not descended from it, nor has it acquired any significant amounts of everyday words from any of these languages. (Greek is an exception, however the point still stands in regards to the amount of Greek that was passed on to English through Christian scripture as opposed to that which was passed on to English from Latin for scientific nomenclature). It seems to me that she either, 1. Thinks that the Bible was written in English, or 2. Thinks that English comes from Hebrew.
Both would be very incorrect.
76% of people in the UK do not go to church in the UK in a 2007 survey.
Thanks you. I wasn't able to watch it in the BBC webpage.
That was a very nice debate!
The guy in the glasses shit himself when challenged by dawkins :S
100% accurate and true. Notice the confronting questions Richard and others pose are always answered by the religious as vague as possible and without revealing too much about what they actually think.
I'm an American so I don't see many episodes of this show. The question I have to ask is this - is this show's format always like this where they ask highly contentious big questions but then constantly cut people off and not allow them the time to answer properly? I find it annoying that the host biases the debate in favor of dumb positions by only allowing quick one sentence answers and making it a randomized jump from person to person. Reminds me of a Mitchell and Webb sketch I saw once.
@PoledniceWP By language, I don't think she meant the actual origin of English itself. She's a journalist so I'm hoping what she meant was we have expressions and sentiments that derive themselves from the christian faith. For example when we say "Christ's sake..." Just a little clarification, but we don't want to be throwing around insults like you have there, otherwise I'm fully in accordance with Dawkins.
I envy many qualities Dawkins possesses, but most of all his patience, it is truly superhuman.
I don’t envy his arrogance!
"I'm an Atheist, I don't believe in 2700 Gods. Christians don't believe in 2699 Gods, so they're nearly as atheistic as me." - Ricky Gervais
Tell me who's the happiest when no one remains.
it's not arrogance,it's called "stating the obvious"
I'm a secular humanist, just throwing it out there that all anglophones owe a lot of (not all of) the language they use today to the king James bible - the 'English' bible as it were. It's worth mentioning that the Catholic church tortured people for owning a bible in English.
The internet: Where religions come to die. ~2 or so years ago, I questioned myself about Christianity. I had questions in my head, and I know I've always doubted my faith ever since I was young. And then my curiosity took my questions online, the internet definitely helped me see the light. It became clear to me as to why the religious are so intent on silencing any dissenting opinions; because let's face it: it doesn't take much for a logical person to see how utterly absurd religions are.
This video cut off at the right moment.
It was poorly worded but she is talking about the everyday phrases that come from the King James bible, the famous translation project that certainly had a huge impact on English language usage among ordinary people.
The thing is, if you tick the Christian box, you don't know what you're ticking yourself into.
Once you tick the box for Christian, you are statistically applying yourself to many denominations. Each tenet that is incorporated into those denominations is supported by your vote simply because you checked the "Christian" box.
Each of which has no significance in the scientific community.
The guy in black with glasses shat himself when the Host revealed what he said about Dawkins in his book.
She didn't say it was founded by the Bible. To a degree she is right, our language has been shaped by many an invasion, be it the Saxons, the Vikings or the Normans. Rome, when it came back a second time brought Latin with it and it helped shape our language.
It's not religion in, and of itself, that produces war and hatred; but it's religion in the context of a sinful humanity that leads to all types of problems. Anytime we have a choice, which is inherent in any situation, we run the risk of screwing something up.
"The poll that we commissioned was done by MORI which as you know is a very respectable organisation, so it should be attributed to MORI rather than to us".
At least Richard Dawkins acknowledges that his own organisation is not respectable!
i love how the ending of this video cuts that woman off lol
" That's why they still call it a theory."
You don't understand what theory means. It means explanation. Even if a theory is absolutely 100% true, it is still called a theory no matter how much evidence it has.
The theory of gravity.
"There will always be evil people do evil things, and good people doing good things, but for good people to do evil things you need religion" - Steven Weinburg
In 1912,a horse trampled over a woman in the name of democracy---100 years later,still ---horses can't vote.
Christianity in Britain can be traced back to the third century. The bishops of London, York and Lincoln were present at the Council of Arles in 314, and signed the acts. [Mansi 2:476-7]. St. Athanasius alludes to certain British bishops who participated in the Council of Sardica. [PG 25:249].
Why do these Christians feel so threatened?
"Matthew 21:31, The body is made available to us as a house of prayer, a vehicle for communication with the Father who can help us to reach the proper understanding"
"Matthew 6:5-8, When you pray, show no one. Prayer is between you and your Father."
In other words they shouldn't even be using churches and keep it to yourself.
Haven't watched the second part, but so far it seems Britain is Christian in some kind of 'ornamental' sense.
"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion" -Steven Weinberg
Always a blessing to be born again like a christian
why would you think that? & how would it? - the English language comes from a mix of languages; British Celtic, Germanic (angles), the Saxon dialect & then french after the Norman conquest.
The Bible was first translated into Old English in the 7th Century, but most people consider the King James Bible in the 16th Century the first translation, which in a practical (cultural) sense is correct.
I knew not who she was before she started talking. Her talking brought my condemnation. "The Church we walk by everyday.... of our christian culture" - What does that mean? How do we interpret the castles then? that Britain has a war culture? I like the churches and I wish for them to remain. However what is said inside these Houses Of God should not constrain social progress or influence politics. Because we say 'bless you' when someone sneezes we should allow the Church into social decisions?
I just paused the video said "excuse me?", then saw your comment: Exactly what I was disgusted by.
Whilst I agree and will always agree that slavery was such a big part of secession, there were a multitude of factors (evidenced again by who made up the army). I think that this, as well as the fact that the battle flag that I have as an avatar was not the official confederate flag but simply a battle banner representing something other than a pro-slave government, means that it's a bit harsh to go for the knee jerk 'racist' remark as soon as you see the battle flag without asking me anything.
Yeah but its on Sunday mornings when we're all hungover so most of us just end up throwing something at the TV or vomiting on it, then we catch up here on youtube in the week :)
good, because the "morality" of religions is what lead to the crusades and all other religious wars.
I didn't mean it to sound like that. I was arguing for the 1%, although in this case they are over 50%. However the principles of liberty, the freedom to express an opinion or to hold a point of view without threat from others are surely the keys to true progress and thriving for all.
Freedom of speech is of no use to a man who has nothing to say and freedom of worship is of no use to a man who has lost his God.- FD Roosevelt
.
Imagine if a bunch of serious people sat down in an expensive studio to discuss the existance of unicorns, cos thats how this looks to me
"Is Country X a Christian Nation?" If it is, what does that even mean? If you asked people "Is the US a slavery-loving nation?" 200 years ago the answer would be "Yes". What does that mean and why is it relevant? Does it make Christianity or slavery "good"?
I can't speak for him obviously but it SEEMS to be because, understandably, he's utterly tired of the irrational mumbo-jumbo and fallacious, mendacious nonsense of people who belive in fairies. He's quite right (in another setting) where he encourages people to question religious beliefs and mock them when they are utterly stupid.
I.
"This is just to say I have eaten the plums which were in the icebox, and which you were probably saving for breakfast. Forgive me, they were delicious. So sweet, and so cold."
Is *that* poetic language? It's the text of a a poem by William Carlos Williams, with its line dissolved. There is a great deal more to poetry than the bare bones of its semantics or even its imagery.
So little depends upon a red wheelbarrow.
That's why it's not prose, and why it's so difficult to translate.
II. "They aren't mutually exclusive propositions"
I haven't bothered to scan many of the comments on this board, but who is denying the latter proposition? Is this set forth as a proposition, or is it more of premise in support of an implied conclusion you wish to follow from it?
(This is an earnest question.)
Now to Shakespeare.
Your mention of Henry V is curious to me; the play is not exactly charitable to Christianity ("This would drink the cup and all").
Could you cite the passages...
I think you misunderstood that. He was explaining how Britain would be if we stuck to the 'values of Jesus Christ.'
I hope that in my life time the odds for the world to become a better place will increase, firstly by abolishing all kinds of organized religion, moving on to a better education for teachers, children and parents too.. One can only have faith, or not?
We do have quite a lot of answers, and the neat thing is they are based on the evaluation real evidence, rather than just making stuff up like people used to do before they had respect for evidence. When a person like Einstein can predict the existence of black holes, simply from mathematical calculations, before we had the technology to prove it, and THEN decades later, we find a black hole at the centre of every galaxy - thats strong evidence that science is a good way to find the truth.
I wish we could get a few atheists on there that were in favor of capitalism.
As an atheist capitalist, I find it frustrating that most atheists I find are also socialist liberals.
Condoms are a potential solution to an already existing original issue. This issue is promiscuity. Promiscuity in universal culture leads to STDs, AIDs, 'unwanted' pregnancy and therefore abortions. Condom success rates will never make the problem disappear in any sector of the world. What I want to know is why people like your good self with good intentions don't make more of an issue out of tackling the base cause - over-sexualisation, rather than try to be simply reactionary.
This was a flag that was created once war had started as a battle standard, which represented the people fighting under it. The stars and stripes, on the other hand, like the British before it, said it was for liberty, but when it came to sending an army against its own people to enforce laws that hadn't even been passed, well that's the same tyranny as so many american revolutionaries fought and died against. Emancipation Proclamation-dated 1863. Start of the War-1861. Post hoc ergo propter hoc
Nativity teaches children that these things are true, thus increasing the religious population, thus damaging the freedom of anyone without belief.
You're confusing my point, i merely stated the fact to point out that since he had slaves, he probably did so under a christian influence. which kind of backfires on whatever they were trying to prove with that little slanderous research project. And like many Australians.. My parents immigrated here from somewhere, and did not come from the convict origins of early Australia
Jonathan is one of the only sane Christians in that room.
As an atheist I believe this is an debate that Richard lost. He failed to get the point of the poll across (fortunately his college later explained it). Also the dishonesty and shouting down style of aproach used by his opponents smothered out any chance he had to formulate a "killer blow" that we are used to from the great man!
Who here believes that story by the female journolist was anything but an attempted smear? Very dishonest women in my opinion.Also most of the audience missed the point
Perhaps you are correct in many senses.
Actually, when she said the language comes from the Bible, I'm guessing she meant that the modern English language spread and surpassed local English dialects thanks to the diffusion of the Bible that was translated in that particular English.
Well, I don't know for English but I am a native Dutch speaker (I'm from Holland) and Dutch has been very much influenced by the Bible. Constructions as were made in Hebrew and Greek did not exists in the Dutch language when the Bible got first translated. So actually new forms of grammar but also a lot of new phrases and sayings were invented by the first translators of the Bible to write a Dutch version of this book. Maybe for English the same thing happened.
"We thought it was rather amusing..."
Shut that woman up for gods sake.
4:30 What Dawkins just said just flew over his head....
Have you heard of the saying "A rich man's war fought for by the poor"? in the context of the Civil War?
the guy sitting next to dawkins is like "ok i will just sit here and nod when richard talks, ayup..."
You're right in correcting the guy you replied to, however there is one thing I need to set straight, the word "theory" in a scientific context has different meaning to what you think. Evolution is not something that scientists say "it makes the most sense therefore we'll use it until its proven wrong" the difference is that evolution IS scientific fact, it IS proven, people that use the annoying phrase "theres no evidence that's why its a THEORY" just don't understand what they're talking about
"The language we use every day comes from The Bible." Right, because most Britons lapse into Greek on a daily basis.
V.
"...he is drunk asleep, or in his rage,
Or in the incestuous pleasure of his bed;
At gaming, swearing, or about some act
That has no relish of salvation in't;
Then trip him, that his heels may kick at heaven,
And that his soul may be as damn'd and black
As hell, whereto it goes."
At any rate, it is utterly incontrovertible that Shakespeare is at least rich in allusion to Greek and Roman as to Abrahamic mythology.
Is any of this inconsistent...
I don't have an issue with the nativity plays, but if a monarchy is impotent then there's no point in having it at all.
I certainly am very happy with life. Studying and making an effort to understand as much of the world as I can is very empowering, and means that I have very little stress. Stress is caused by having the illusion of control when really you don't. So understanding the inherent irrationality of the human mind, and making allowances for it, is a good way to avoid stress and disappointment. Believing things that are very unlikely to be true prevents you from understanding the world properly.