Here's my imput. I'm a 66 year old white male retired in Iowa, USA. I've been a Baha'i for 34 years. (bahai.org) The Baha'i world view is there is God..but God exists independent of Creation, both the physical and the spiritual realms.. essentially because God is like oil and creation is like water, and they don't mix. But, God, having made us as 'children' has not abandoned us, but sends a Messenger every 500 to 1,000 years for the whole planet to guide us and teach us. So, collectively, we have gone through infancy, various stages of elementary development, slowly, painfully learning lessons, are now going through adolescence, with all it's distinct upheavals, and are approaching Adulthood, Graduation Day, the Coming if Age of the Entire Human Race. In a Christian context...Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. It is not surprising that many have disregarded religion as unreal or untrustworthy given the underdevelopment of most religious systems. But the challenge is to see with new eyes that science is one wing of the bird of life and true religion is the other wing. Science without religion is materialism and religion without science is superstition. They must agree. Thank you.
These key elements brings realization of our SUPERCONSCIOUS mind:Karma-Grace and Samadhi...in that order. You must work at withdrawal of the conscious mind from the ego & senses.That inner peace is the springboard to a deeper connection to GOD. Than GODS GRACE must gift us a boost in our kundalini energies=Samadhi-the unified field of awareness or Born Again when the ego is destroyed along with its subconscious mind-unconscious mind revealing the superconscious mind. For a brilliant breakdown of the different types of samadhi see Ramana Maharshi Be as You Are Chapter 12 Experience and Samadhi. I can name 3 contemporary spiritually liberated master who were alive in the 20th century,& that is just the ones who had a public appearance manifest. Sri Ramakrishna/Nirvilkapa samadhi,kundalini pandit Gopi Krishnas Kundalini awakening experience/Turiya samadhi the 4th state of consciousness. Ramana Maharshi/ Sahaja samadhi.
This talk about living networks and the ability of systems to correct themselves through feedback reminded me of Prophet Muhammad’s saying: "The believers in their mutual kindness, compassion and sympathy are just like ONE BODY. When one of the limbs suffers, the whole body responds to it with wakefulness and fever.”
Im reading the Science of Leonardo and it is briliant. From an artist's perspective Capra's ability to link is uncanny. Not only this but he communicates his ideas so well. I plan to read more.
"Living networks can correct themselves, as well as they receive feedback and make it works". It is very nice that the life flows in a such a way that let us participate by receiving and sending feedback. We can say "thanks" for this interview as one feedback.
Similar with people, as with sub-atomic particles, it is not so much the individual components that are important, but more the relationship they have with each other~*The Tao of Physics*. Profound.
Wow, he is actually much more of a materialist than I expected (not really knowing anything about him, only that he's written about physics with a sort of mystical outlook). Cool.
12 лет назад+1
Is it? Purpose is everywhere in living systems, in fact, you can't explain complex living systems without purpose.
Capra is getting it right by sub-dividing the reference points for explicating knowledge. Thus any explanation of "reality" is a combination of structural, patterns, & processes be described and from that comprehension, a feedback loop is established thus strengthening and coherently establishing the epi-phenomenon of mind, self, memory, and other mental attributes connected to consciousness. Yet he must recognize that vitalism & "morphogenic fields" are simply an articulation of the metabolism.
Insightful, Thanks, But if not contradicting, than maybe an unnecessarily circuitous route. A systems based understanding versus a vitalistic one? Like the 2 are distinct and opposed? And there is no vital force that drives these separate parts to grind against one another? So why do they do it then? Isn't it so that they may generate the energy needed to maintain their separateness? Just so they can grind against one another some more, to produce more of the same energy, to repeat the whole process? Couldn't THAT be the vital force being rejected here? If one part subsumed the other, than there would no longer be the other, and this energy mass or vital force would not have the tension and friction it uses to power all this separateness to begin with maybe. So let me get this straight, this speaker DOESN'T believe in this vital force like some of his peers? But surely he does embody it right?
but what was before these relationships that we need to understand? What created the system and what was the intelligence that formed the laws of systems? So a delicately balanced system hangs together because it is delicately balanced. Why? How?
I think, in time we will simply revert back to ancient wisdom (Theosophy, if you like). Capra is almost there (and his work is excellent) but like Lyall Watson and others, they make chance somehow synonymous with intelligence, mental processes of physical matter somehow synonymous with a cosmic mind, deny an existence of a vital force and yet imply its' existence. Just accept what we are not willing to accept and let us progress ....PLEASE!
Cool talk but this guy states a lot of assumptions as fact, such as consciousness is a product of life. Not saying it is, just that it's not a testable hypothesis.
logic is only based on human experience not universal experience.
12 лет назад
Mmmm Mr Capra you are forgetting an essential element of living systems: purpose. There is no relevance to feedback unless you relate it to purpose. Information and purpose are essential to complexity.
12 лет назад
That's a reductionist, bottom-up, random-universe approach. It was the 19th century logic.
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Here's my imput. I'm a 66 year old white male retired in Iowa, USA. I've been a Baha'i for 34 years. (bahai.org) The Baha'i world view is there is God..but God exists independent of Creation, both the physical and the spiritual realms.. essentially because God is like oil and creation is like water, and they don't mix. But, God, having made us as 'children' has not abandoned us, but sends a Messenger every 500 to 1,000 years for the whole planet to guide us and teach us. So, collectively, we have gone through infancy, various stages of elementary development, slowly, painfully learning lessons, are now going through adolescence, with all it's distinct upheavals, and are approaching Adulthood, Graduation Day, the Coming if Age of the Entire Human Race. In a Christian context...Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.
It is not surprising that many have disregarded religion as unreal or untrustworthy given the underdevelopment of most religious systems. But the challenge is to see with new eyes that science is one wing of the bird of life and true religion is the other wing. Science without religion is materialism and religion without science is superstition. They must agree. Thank you.
These key elements brings realization of our SUPERCONSCIOUS mind:Karma-Grace and Samadhi...in that order.
You must work at withdrawal of the conscious mind from the ego & senses.That inner peace is the springboard to a deeper connection to GOD.
Than GODS GRACE must gift us a boost in our kundalini energies=Samadhi-the unified field of awareness or Born Again when the ego is destroyed along with its subconscious mind-unconscious mind revealing the superconscious mind.
For a brilliant breakdown of the different types of samadhi see Ramana Maharshi Be as You Are Chapter 12 Experience and Samadhi.
I can name 3 contemporary spiritually liberated master who were alive in the 20th century,& that is just the ones who had a public appearance manifest.
Sri Ramakrishna/Nirvilkapa samadhi,kundalini pandit Gopi Krishnas Kundalini awakening experience/Turiya samadhi the 4th state of consciousness. Ramana Maharshi/ Sahaja samadhi.
Thank You Fritjof, your book "Tao of Physics" is ground breaking.
This understanding of life is so encouraging and sensible.
This talk about living networks and the ability of systems to correct themselves through feedback reminded me of Prophet Muhammad’s saying: "The believers in their mutual kindness, compassion and sympathy are just like ONE BODY. When one of the limbs suffers, the whole body responds to it with wakefulness and fever.”
to see systems as one body is not similar to understanding connected systems ....
to condense it to a singularity is not a collection of networks
Im reading the Science of Leonardo and it is briliant. From an artist's perspective Capra's ability to link is uncanny. Not only this but he communicates his ideas so well. I plan to read more.
"Living networks can correct themselves, as well as they receive feedback and make it works". It is very nice that the life flows in a such a way that let us participate by receiving and sending feedback. We can say "thanks" for this interview as one feedback.
Similar with people, as with sub-atomic particles, it is not so much the individual components that are important, but more the relationship they have with each other~*The Tao of Physics*. Profound.
FC has helped me move from being confused/irritated by esoteric "energy" explanations - dynamic systems perspectives allow me much more thought space
I suggest everyone read “The Tao of Physics” :)
Wow, he is actually much more of a materialist than I expected (not really knowing anything about him, only that he's written about physics with a sort of mystical outlook). Cool.
Is it? Purpose is everywhere in living systems, in fact, you can't explain complex living systems without purpose.
MINDWALK. RUclips this movie!!!!
Yes. I agree. I started with
My Dinner With Andre
and then discovered Mindwalk.
Capra is getting it right by sub-dividing the reference points for explicating knowledge. Thus any explanation of "reality" is a combination of structural, patterns, & processes be described and from that comprehension, a feedback loop is established thus strengthening and coherently establishing the epi-phenomenon of mind, self, memory, and other mental attributes connected to consciousness. Yet he must recognize that vitalism & "morphogenic fields" are simply an articulation of the metabolism.
1:30 ( ecology mean earth household )
Brilliant
what a genius mind?! please share.
Insightful, Thanks, But if not contradicting, than maybe an unnecessarily circuitous route. A systems based understanding versus a vitalistic one? Like the 2 are distinct and opposed? And there is no vital force that drives these separate parts to grind against one another? So why do they do it then? Isn't it so that they may generate the energy needed to maintain their separateness? Just so they can grind against one another some more, to produce more of the same energy, to repeat the whole process? Couldn't THAT be the vital force being rejected here? If one part subsumed the other, than there would no longer be the other, and this energy mass or vital force would not have the tension and friction it uses to power all this separateness to begin with maybe. So let me get this straight, this speaker DOESN'T believe in this vital force like some of his peers? But surely he does embody it right?
it is amazing how these 2 men look much younger than they are,
were those interviews made much before 2010?
key piece! nice edit!
The whole is more than the sum of its parts>>>>>> that is completely true
but what was before these relationships that we need to understand? What created the system and what was the intelligence that formed the laws of systems? So a delicately balanced system hangs together because it is delicately balanced. Why? How?
Learn to share not only objects but relationships
I wish there was a way to delete the word "system" from the English language forever.
I think, in time we will simply revert back to ancient wisdom (Theosophy, if you like). Capra is almost there (and his work is excellent) but like Lyall Watson and others, they make chance somehow synonymous with intelligence, mental processes of physical matter somehow synonymous with a cosmic mind, deny an existence of a vital force and yet imply its' existence. Just accept what we are not willing to accept and let us progress ....PLEASE!
Doesn't artificial intelligence and machine learning now have a self learning and correcting phenomenon? So do they have consciousness?
we are not yet there
The world as objects? That's the problem. There are no systems. Only relationships.
Cool talk but this guy states a lot of assumptions as fact, such as consciousness is a product of life. Not saying it is, just that it's not a testable hypothesis.
Why is quantum physics the wrong path to consciousness?
Looks like my dad.
logic is only based on human experience not universal experience.
Mmmm Mr Capra you are forgetting an essential element of living systems: purpose. There is no relevance to feedback unless you relate it to purpose. Information and purpose are essential to complexity.
That's a reductionist, bottom-up, random-universe approach. It was the 19th century logic.