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Starship Lore : Omega Class Destroyer - Minbari Killer
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- Опубликовано: 25 июн 2019
- What's up Lore Masters,
This is me trying to get back into Babylon 5.. We're taking a look at Omega Class Destroyer and it's role. What are your thoughts on it?
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Always loved Earth Alliance ships. Always had that feel of realism and felt right in space.
@Rodney James well somebody's not a B5 fan, your loss.
Both of these franchises are amazing in my book. No bais here. There is not much to explain away the techno-babble as to see development of throughout both series (Thank You Samantha Carter).
In truth out early foray into space will have ships that will be more like B5 ships - clunky, boxy, rotating sections and not easy on the eyes. Then as we (If God willing) either gaing more technology either through conquest or progression then have SG looking ships... then probably Star Trek looking ships after a while... then probably Star Wars... eventually culminating into 40K ships far down the road...
@@Palmerrip Blocky ships are impractical.
@@optillian4182 🤣 Oh this should be good... Please explain... let me guess something along the lines of spatial wind resistance and all ships have to have a smooth hull the glide and fly along in the vacuum lime in Star Trek... am I close?
@Rodney James Thats like your opinion man dude.
I really liked the Omega, it had spinning bits, shooty bits and was generally bad ass. I think that even 20+ years on it still stands up well compared to ships from other shows.
Zerebrat Eightyseven true it is a good looking ship but never has much screen time which was a shame, I would have loved to see that giving the Drakh a good kicking.
if i remember correctly, that spinning bits were actually where the bridge is, isn't?
Yes most of the ships operations and crew areas were based in the centrifuge, I believe that only flight operations and the engineering sections were in the primary hull where zero-g could be used as an advantage.
My perception of the centrifuge is less that it improves combat capability and more that it allows MUCH longer operations with a greater range of freedom - no need to send crew planetside or to a station to prevent muscle or bone degradation. This would allow better strategic usage of the ships, while admittedly presenting a potential weakness tactically. IIRC the big advantage over the Nova or Hyperion classes was weapons and systems - more resilient hardware, better sensors and more powerful weapons to allow it to stay in a fight longer and keep hurting the target until it surrenders (at the last second) or there isn't enough to be a threat anymore
There was also increases in range vs the Nova. The Nova class kicked butt in the Dilgar war, but proved to be too short ranged with it's plasma cannons.
Yep, Rocketdyne borrowed the idea from Karmatech’s Hyperion cruisers to use slightly less powerful but longer-ranged beams and pulse cannons.
That's a good point. Still need rails, handles, and straps though.
The beam weapons on the Omega were actually more powerful than the weapons on the Nova class, and longer ranged.
If I recall correctly, the centrifuge housed the habitat space. So yeah, much more support/logistical rather than actually affecting the direct combat capabilities. Also the armoring of the Omega was double? that of the Nova. If something could seriously damage the Omega's spine through the centrifuge, then they either royally screwed up, or were hopelessly outmatched. In fact I don't recall ever seeing on screen a Omega get destroyed from fire in that area.
Not to mention how damned impressive it was to see these ships emerge from a Jump Point.
I’ve seen Event Horizon, all of Star Trek, all of Battlestar Galactica, and, of course, Babylon 5. There is nothing more sublime or awe-inspiring than an Omega Class charging out of a jump point.
Rocketdyne was actually a real company and a contractor for both NASA and the DoD when B5 aired.
As of 2013 it's Aerojet Rocketdyne.
So they didn't just make it up to sound sci-fi. It was an actual defense contractor that in the show's continuity survived for hundreds of years.
I think its still here?
There are companys today that started over 100 years ago if not more. Just took a look at Husqvarna they started back in 1689 that company is old
@@jagsdomain203 Yeah, but they're Aerojet Rocketdyne now, not just Rocketdyne.
Is Karmatech real too?
Not the first time a real life company or facility was mentioned as building a starship. The Andromeda Ascendant was built in Newport News.
Small correction: the Omega was effectively the successor, not predecessor of the Nova.
I think he meant Warlock Class.
I would have been happier if he took another pass on editing before uploading, then.
Plus the Omega was a destroyer, not a heavy cruiser. Which while a reflection of JMS not understanding ship designations is still canon. It has been suggested that as a plot device, the Omega class was called a destroyer to avoid insulting crew members on the Hyperion class heavy cruisers. Even though the Omega was clearly a much larger and more powerful ship that was intended to eventually replace this class. For some time, both ships remained in production as the EA was desperate to shore up the borders after the crippling war.
This video has too many errors and shows a lack of detailed understanding.
@@thegeneral123 also he kept saying mm when instead of millimeter its like saying in instead of inch.
Within just the first few seconds I was cringing. Hell, calling it a "Minbari Killer" in the title was laughable. Earthforce didn't have anything that could pose any real threat to a warcruiser until the Omega X.
Well at least Lore spelled Minbari right. I keep seeing people spelling it mimbari.
>"Constructed during the Earth-Minbari War - oh, you remember that war, right? That was the war where the human race was being slaughtered, and _no_ _other_ _governments_ wanted to get involved except the Narn, who were basically the heroes at that point in time."
Oh, don't worry, Lore. We remember.
And we'll keep remembering, every time anyone except the Narn come asking for help from a species they left to twist in the wind.
in the defence of the other civilizations as Londo and G'kar pointed out in the Babylon 5 film regarding the war the Minbari were so much more powerful than the other younger races that they were basically too scared to help fearing that if they did they would be next in fact this is precisely why the Narns helped as everything they gave Earth was Centari in origin and they hoped that the Minbari would see the Centari weapons now that earth and the Centari had good relations put 2 and 2 together and wipe out the Centari aswell
Maybe *maybe* if they’d all teamed up the Mimbari may have backed off just from the idea of fighting all those species at once. (Either a “dear lord that’s too many” or “if all these people are coming to their aid maybe this was all kicked off from a misunderstanding and they aren’t a terribly violent species that shoots at anyone that isn’t them....”)
But I can understand why they wouldn’t take that risk.
@@TheDjbz all of these races were still recovering from the kicking the Dilgar gave them 10 years ago as they were on the verge of annihilation when Earth got involved and to be perfectly honest the other races new the golden rule of the B5 universe never fuck with Delen
Yeah, except none of the younger races stood a chance against the Mimbari. Your only other real options outside the perpetual clusterfuck that was the League of Non-Aligned Worlds were the Centauri and the Narn. The Narn weren't that far ahead of the Earth Alliance in terms of tech and arguably inferior in total strength while the Centauri knew better than to piss off the Mimbari after they got their asses handed to them every time they poked a toe across their borders. Londo said as much when he was talking to EA brass before they fucked up and killed Mimbari Jesus.
All humanity really needed was the specs for *better sensor technology* that could cope with *Minbari stealth systems.* It wasn't firepower that Earthforce lacked, it was the ability to _lock on_ to Minbari targets and apply it. [After all the war started when a Earth destroyer got a clean hit on a Minbari destroyer, when it's systems were overwhelmed by Minbari scanners].
Supplying the humans with that capability anonymously through back channels would have been _in the interest of the other young races,_ since the Minbari getting a bloody nose would have made them think twice about going on the rampage against anyone else.
Earth would have still lost, but they would have made the _Minbari pay for it,_ otherwise after celebrating over the smoking remnants of Earth, the untouched Minbari might have decided to create Pax Minbar and take over the other young races.
*Minbari war caste:* We create our own reality.
Thank you for continuing the B5 series!
During the Earth civil war that problem was specifically mentioned one heavy cruiser was firing upon another. The First Officer says to the Captain "One more hit like that and we'll lose rotation and go z-gravity. Let me take the gloves off the firing teams". The Captain reluctantly agreed and they destroy the persuing ship.
Yeah, that scene doesn't really make sense once you consider the physics or watch the followup episode, where you see Captain Hiroshi's ship (the Churchill I think...) burning all over and about to die with a still spinning gravity section.
Unless there's something jammed that slows the rotation, such a big piece of metal will keep spinning for a long time in the vacuum of space. How long would depend on just how much friction there is where it touches the non-rotating parts of the ship.
And yet it’s not spinning nearly fast enough to provide 1g acceleration
Excellent breakdown of the ship.
I always liked how Earth tech in B5 reflected Earth's younger species status. Often chunky, reliance on centrifugal artificial gravity, and fighters with powerful multi-directional thrusters. Earth Aliance was younger and less advanced, and the show did a good job of reflecting that.
True, but it also did a good job of showing how the EA advanced quickly in response to contact with other species.
I think the Omega Class is the Imperial Star Destroyer of the B5
When you see one
You know you are probably screwed or saved.
Unless your name is Delen and you've got a trio of Mimbari cruisers backing up your White Star. Then the Omegas in front of you will find a damn good reason to "be somewhere else".
@@pwrserge83 Only, if they value their lives. :D
Ah... love that scene. ^^
Yep, it wouldn’t be until the Warlock that EA had a ship capable of going toe-to-toe with a Sharlin, and even then one of those was shown to be blown up by concentrated fire from 3 modified Vorchans
EarthForce: The Omega-class destroyer - over one full mile of 'do NOT eff with us.'
Centauri: (starts thinking of safe word)
Mimbari: (smiles, reaches for condoms)
Vorlons: (breaks out the lube and puts Marvin Gaye on the sound system)
Johnny Dominguez Only when they plan to screw a planet, old boy. 😉😆😆😆😆😆
On backups for if the gravity gets compromised: you can lodge that complaint at virtually every vessel that uses any form of artificial gravity, from Star Trek to Star Wars. And before you think that's ridiculous in Star Trek, think of how many times they run across energy dampening fields.
Artificial Gravity seems to be the most tamper-resistant system on any Starfleet ship, except in Discovery season 2, when the Section 31 Station was compromised.
The Omega is probably one of my favorite capitol ships in all science fiction, it just looks plain awesome and has so many unique design touches
Definitely one of my favorite sci-fi ships of all time. Clunky and inelegant, it was an honest rendition of a warship in space. The centrifuge was a potential Tactical liability, but greatly improved the range and crew efficiency of these vessels.
It's interesting that alien ships in B5 are pure scifi, but Earth ships represent (relative) realism.
@@kimnice Not really. The "realism" stems from Earth's technology being laughably behind the other races.
The Omega was the best the Earth alliance could produce but even then they couldn't pretend it was in any way a match for a Mimbari Sharlin battleship. The Mimbari could have cut these to ribbons. The one time we see them face off, the Earth fleet turned and ran. As Delenn said, "If you value your lives, be somewhere else."
Yea the Mimbari Sharlin was an absolute monster of a ship.
A Sharlin probably would have won, but don't sell the Omega Class Destroyer short. I think it would put up a good fight.
These things make way more sense than most other Sci fi ships. They have a good mix of military use and hard limits imposed by physics.
Could you perhaps do the BC 304 Daedalus-class Battlecruiser from the Stargate series?
@Rodney James ...they have shields, more specifically, Asguard Shields, which are powerful enough to tank a CME (Coronal Mass Ejection) to the face. While at the start, it only had Railbattries and Missiles, it did get upgraded with Energy Weapons (Asguard Plasma Beam Weapons) which are powerful enough to penetrate and destroy a Ori's shield and ship, which use to be able to tank a entire fleet of fire. As for Maneuverability, one only needs to go to Season 10 episode 20 to see that it can dodge and weave inbetween ship as it is fast and it's smaller then people think (200-225 meters long)
@Rodney James wow...someone didn't watch the series or did a lick of research....
@@HawkTheRed Little correction: Its "Asgard" not "Asguard".
@@Omega0850 ah ok, I often spell how it sounds to me and to me, it sounds like As-Guard
@Rodney James Are you confusing the 304 with something else?
Who has two thumbs and is the Captain of an Omega class? Bob Kelso!
uf
Uff
I thought I recognized him :)
Here for this.
One thing is certain, these ships are built to last, if your ship can fly through a half exploded defense satelite and still come out mostly in one piece, then it is really tough.
That’s only because Sheridan was aboard. You do not mess with Tron!
Also Delenns reaction makes it clear a bonehead warcruiser would not have survived. Aggi was already badly damaged BEFORE she went into the fireball (They had planned to ram the satellite)
'Try' to get back? No need to try, just lay back and let the Lightwave 3D 90s rendered on Amigas goodness flow over you. Bruce Boxleitner at his greatest.
To me Bab5 was always the superior series compared to both Star Trek and Star Wars, even thought that last season was weak.
I agree
I also agree with you
Best sci fi series ever
it was the best
Agreed
Rocketdyne is a real rocket engine company that was founded in 1955 and is currently called Aerojet Rocketdyne. They built the F-1 engines used on the Saturn V rocket.
If the rotating section locks up, it doesn't stop rotating, the entire ship would start rotating along with it. It is mentioned in one episode that if they take one more hit they could lose rotation and go Zero G, This was in the third season episode "Severed Dreams"
Thank you lore for doing more Babylon 5 videos. and as all ways hope you have a great day
In "Severed Dreams", the bridge crew of the Alexander does remark that they're worried that hits from Clarkstown's lasers will cause them to lose rotation, which is why they decide to destroy Clarkstown instead of running.
Technically, it wasn't FTL capable, it was just capable of Solo Jumps and thus was not reliant on a Jump Gate.
Sorry, Omega was a hastly assemblet solution, but true Mimbar killer was Warlock class
The show never addressed it.
The show was story based the ships were cool but did not matter really.
Have there been fan fiction about any of this stuff?
While design of the Warlocks began during Clark's reign if I remember correctly, most of the work was done in a time when the Minbari were firm allies of mankind, so they are not Minbari killers.
If anything fits that designation it would be the shadow-tech upgraded Omega-X variants.
@@jagsdomain203 During the Movie In The Begining, they reused footage of the omega, which was reconned as the prototypes, based on how long design approaches can take in real life the Omega would need to have been designed before the war began.
The warlock is also a much closer design to the Sharlin than the Omega, it has a significant range/ power advantage.
@@Grz349 what was that blue ship that we saw in every battle nut it was never even talked about in the show?
The one that was blown up by the Aggenon?
actually the omega was a standout warship well planned and sufficient for it´s role, the defense of far off colonys
Thank you, I’ve been waiting for B5 content for a while, now.
I like these Earth Force ships, they remind me of the battletech ships.
Most of them ugly. Except for the New Syrtis class carrier(see historical: Unification war)
@@rifleman2c997 That is pretty nice. I like the rotating section, doesn't stand out too much, so less likely to be disabled.
Much like the Daedalus in Stargate the aesthetic of this ship was one of the best ever made IMO. Practical looking but fierce and definitely powerful.
One of my all time favorite ships. Thanks for the amazing B5 content!
I love the Omega, it’s a great hard-sci fi design, not unlike the Nauvoo from the Expanse, only difference is this is an actual warship.
The main centrifuge is a huge concern, we actually see in the show ships targeting this area of the vessel, my guess is that it’s heavily armored, and the officers onboard had some sort of magnetic clamps on their boots just in case the centrifuge is disabled, again, much like in the Expanse.
The addition of the centrifuge is a good idea, it allows the ship’s crew to be able to last on the ship without the negative impacts of zero-g, wreaking of bones and muscle tissue is one, and this is why astronauts on the ISS rotate pretty commonly, and they have to excessive 2.5 hours everyday so they don’t get to badly affected.
The only concern with the Omega that I have is it’s role, Mimbari cruisers would eat these things for breakfast, it would take a fleet of these to take on a single Sharlin.
I’m really glad you’re doing more B5, I love that show, and can’t wait for more breakdowns!
A good reason why everyone seems to target the rotating section is thats where the ship's command center is. Its also one of the largest sections of the ship so its 'center mass'.
Something else to keep in mind is that even if you knock out the rotational motors, the sections themselves are almost guaranteed to be as frictionless as possible. The sections would continue to rotate for a sizable amount of time, potentially beyond the engagement duration.
Regarding the relative power between an Omega and a Sharlin, you are greatly underestimating the Omega and GREATLY overestimating the Sharlins. Keep in mind how many Whitestars it took to effectively take on Omegas
HikaruXavier HikaruXavier White stars are far weaker than Sharlins, Sharlins can go head to head against shadow battle cruisers, and we’ve seen Sharlins cut through EA ships like paper in “ In the Beginning “, also, it takes 2 maybe 3 white stars to annihilate an Omega, and we saw 30 or so take on 6 or 7 Omegas which where heavily augmented with shadow technology.
IT had 4 rear firing cannons not 2. The image you used shows it.
I love you Omega class destroyer
The fun part was we never saw the true firepower of the Omega the designers wanted. There were supposed to be a massive missile broadside that the red hatches on the side represented and a forward firing Mine Launcher that would have been a single shot ship killer. Same ones we see on Centauri ships at one point in the series. The Omegas were primarily shown using there secondary weapons.
I love these designs. There's just something more... believable about them than most sci-fi ships. Not just the spin gravity but the submarine crossed with an aircraft carrier vibe seems logical.
I'm not so sure about that. On our oceans there were good reasons why battleships and carriers were two seperate classes and any attempt at a combined battleship-carrier was abondoned on the planning tables or in very rare cases after a single prototype was built.
Sure in zero-g you don't have to worry about whether your flight deck is long enough for take-offs and landings, but having a big gaping hangar at the front of your ship and lots of extra fuel and ammunition for the fighters sounds like something I would much rather have hanging back quite a bit behind the battlefield, with the frontline being made up of ships that trade in the hangar space or either size-reduction, more guns, more armor or a combination thereof.
Having a battleship and carrier combined into one ship will result in a ship that might at best be competent in but will never excell in either role. Much better two make two seperate, specialized classes.
Don't get me wrong, the Omega is great for long-range patrolling and such, but as a pure warship it does have some flaws that seperate carrier and frontliner designs would avoid.
If I were to design a space navy, I would probably design something like the Omega since they would probably make for great anti-piracy long-range patrol vessels during peacetimes, but my main battlefleet would be made out of pure battleships and carriers (along with cruisers and other smaller vessels of course).
Though the same goes for all the other major species as well, with the possible exception of the Centauri, who's main frontline ship seems to be the Vorchan with their bigger carrier-like Primus rarely ever being seen in direct ship-to-ship combat. One case being a Primus being sent as a symbol/bluff (until the Narn attacked them by surprise) and the other when one was sent to finish off an almost disabled Narn ship.
Yeah, you missed somthing.
The Omega's central module was supposed to despin and lock down before entering combat, as having a spinning part would make turning really hard.
They didn't do it on the show for budgetary reasons.
I believe they were also originally going to have a counter rotating section toward the rear of the vessel, built into the engineering areas, which would counteract the force of the rotating habitat areas and provide stability when manoeuvring, but due to the budget again they decided to go with the basic engine module. Shame, I bet that version would have looked magnificent
I'm delighted you produce Babylon 5 lore!
At one scene early in the series, Sheridan is batting baseballs. He's wearing a cap with "EAS Agamemnon OCG-5" on it.
Centrifuges aren't about crew pseudogravity during battle. They're about long term crew health and cruise endurance. With grav a ship can be on mission longer.
Omega should have been referred to as a cruiser. Its centrifuge makes it good for long patrols and force projection, not so good at fighting. Modernisations of the Nova class could have taken up system defence roles (which would be the majority of the Earth Alliance fleet's purpose) where they could perform shorter tours to protect crew health.
I think they're really different ships when it comes to capabilities. As I recall, the guns on the Nova were powerful plasma canons, which are really good at short ranges but drop off at distance. That's why the initial Earth task force that made first contact with the Minbari were able to do so much damage in one salvo, they were at close range. The Minbari seldom let them get that close again, which is why those big plasma canons didn't destroy more Minbari ships. The Omega, by contrast, primarily had powerful particle beam weapons fired as beams or as pulses which gave better range and armor penetration. The Omega was overall more powerful and better in a fight, and could reach out and touch someone at range, but if you were close range with a Nova class you might be in even more trouble no matter who you were. Either way, neither of those ships are slouches.
There are four reasons I can think of why they are classified as destroyers rather then cruisers or even battleships.
1) Political reasons. This ship was clearly designed to be a heavily armored and armed mimbari killer from the start but after said race that almost genocided your species let you "win"... it might not be wise to label it as such so Earthforce might have "downgraded" it to a mere destroyer class to down play its real mission.
2) IRL, navies are simplifying their ship classes as modern tech and what for the longest time was the current political environment (which is starting to change again sadly) made having a lot of ship classes unnecessary. To that end destroyers are the largest and in some cases the only class of warship that most navies now field. Even the US cancelled its CGX project which will soon leave us with destroyers as are largest non-carrier warships (though in all reality the US hasn't had a proper cruiser since the California class got decommissioned). So it could be that by the time Earthforce came about, it was just tradition that the largest warship was labeled a destroyer.
3) Reclassification happen. From after world war II and up to the 1970's the US navy for some reason classified ships that were larger then a destroyer but not quite large enough to be considered a proper cruiser were called frigates (which during WWII would of been called ocean escorts) and then after the 1975 ship reclassification frigates got downgraded to being a ship bigger then a corvette but smaller then a destroyer and former pre-1985 frigates got reclassified as cruisers. So Earthforce might of at some point just said, "Screw it, ships with the most pew-pew are now destroyers since it sounds badass!".
4) Earthforce isn't a navy, it's a spaceforce. There is nothing that says a space force has to follow naval classification doctrine, even if inspired by it. While rare in sci-fi, there are settings that have their space force avoid a direct naval comparison. GURPS Transhuman Space RPG setting is on such example were the US Airforce beat out the navy in developing space warships (and the Navy ain't happy heh) and go so far as to refuse to call their warships "ships" preferring to call them "vessels" instead.
It's a destroyer, not a cruiser.
@@johngregory4801 Did you even read my comment?
@@ReddwarfIV Yes. And I have all five seasons of Babylon 5. There's never a single reference to the Omega class except for calling them "Earthforce Destroyers". Calling it a cruiser when it's never called that in the show is...
Your choice.
One of the baddest warship classes in all of science fiction. Best part is for all of the ass they kicked in the series we supposedly never got to see their full firepower on screen (90's CG/budget issues). Great video, by the way!
I do agree with you about the vulnerability of the rotating section, though I personally suspect they accepted the trade off for increased versatility and operational time. I also seem to recall the Omega class was rocking some seriously heavy armor; maybe that helped make hitting the weaker parts difficult, especially while maneuvering and getting ripped to pieces by the firepower of God lol
I'm going off of ancient memory here, but I believe the Omegas had something like 3-6 METERS of armor plating.
*Edit - the much-lighter Hyperion class had 6-8 meter plating. One can assume that the Nova and Omega classes had significantly more.
I'd always just assumed that the artificial gravity was to make these ships more suitable to live on for extended tours of duty, and that crew would strap in for combat where possible. Even with centrifugal gravity, as soon as you need to make any rapid turns or accelerations in combat anything not tied down is going to go flying, so not being strapped in isn't really option.
Omega Class Destroyer hands down my absolute favorite sci-fi ship class.
I remember in one of the commentaries when they were discussing the introduction of the Omega, the design people said something like "you'd need a gimballed assembly to counter the physics reaction of the rotating section, and the production people looked at me like I had a head sprouting from my neck and said "just put some really big thrusters on the end and let's call it good".
Can you do a breakdown on the Shadow ships,vorlon ships and the White Stars
+1
Actually, the Omega was the Successor of the Nova, not the Predecessor. Got your terms reversed. :)
Love the Omega. Grounded design, based on in-universe explanations and fully explained and versatile. B5 is one of the best series out there for this, and it makes it to my top 2 sci-fi stories
Well to be fair no-one wanted to get involved in the Dilgar War either
And when the Humans joined in, they didn't exactly do it out of the goodness of their hearts either, but rather out of what G'Kar so eloquently called "enlightened self interest". Fighting with the leage did end up helping the EA a lot post-war.
Not to mention that with mankind being a relatively minor nation at the time, it was rather likely that the Dilgar would have attacked them sooner or later anyway, so better join up with the others while there are still others to join up with.
The Omegas are iconic for Babylon 5. I agree that the centrifuge is a little bit of a bad move for an upgrade to the Novas due to the fact that you lose LOTS of room for weapons, but I believe this can be counteracted by the fact that the parts that make the centrifuge spin are heavily armored, out of the line of direct fire, and run nearly the entire length of the ship in some cases. Also, being able to have Artificial Gravity helps keep the ship on the front lines for longer, because of how microgravity affects the Human Body. If we really need to be nit picky... the Omega Class needs more Aft Weapons, and just more guns overall.
The issue with the centrifuge - which you touched on - comes from what happens when the bearings are damaged. The centrifuge starts grinding to a halt, transferring that momentum to the rest of the ship. Also, in order to counter the torque, there needs to be a massive flywheel. It would make more sense to have two counter-rotating sections. Also, as the ship is damaged and there is a difference in mass between one side and another, it would lead to torque and flexing, something partially countered by a counter-rotating section. All that spinning also acts like a gyroscope, making maneuverability much more challenging. It's far more likely that rotation would be stopped before entering combat unless surprised.
Always happy to see more B5 content. Shadow infused omegas next, if you please.
Another big difference between this show and star trek is that for Star Trek they build and filmed miniature models of the ships, but for this show all the ship photography was generated using a 486 computer.
Technically, the pilot episode used Amigas (a few steps short of a 486 but they had a network of them) and later episodes used CGI produced with the first generation of pentium processor (which was the next CPU generation after the 486 with "pent" hinting that it's effectively the "586")
@@a-blivvy-yus there was another tv show around this time called seaquest that did a lot of intensive cgi, but it wasnt smooth like babylon 5. on seaquest whenever the picture got really busy with activity the computer would hiccup and the hiccups would show up in the final video
Excellent video.
Might I request you do a video on how you would design the ultimate Federation vessel? Any canon technology known to be used by the UFoP is allowed.
Hmm, armor generators, transphasic torpedoes, quantum slipstream, spore drive, phasing cloak, pulse phasers, repair droids, primary and secondary shields
The centrifuge section of the Omega was misdirection by the series. The Earth Alliance didn't have artificial gravity and so a story mechanism was needed; We spin things to simulate gravity. Assuming you wouldn't want to over rotate the spinning section, Earth gravity equivalent would be on the outer level of the rotating section. Would that really be the smartest place to put the Command Bridge? On the least stable part of the ship? So you show a ship with a rotating section and everyone assumes the Command Bridge is in that section. Actually I think most people thought the Bridge was in the forward section and just let their brain do the mental gymnastics. "The willing suspension of disbelief" helps a lot.
We see the same thing on the Station itself. The Command Deck is just underneath the central docking port where any "gravity" due to rotation would essentially be zero. This is even pointed out in the show where the central travel car stations have warnings that it's a low gravity area and people should hold onto the rails.
I'd love to see a feature on the Omega variants we see later on in civil war, especially those ones with the Shadow tech upgrades. That bio-hull armor was some really scaring looking stuff!
Excellent video...!
Cool end credits and music too...!
Mimbari Killer? Sharlin cruisers would wipe the floors with Omegas. Warlock-class ships could be up to the task.
If I remember correctly, JMS stated that the Warlock class was a disappointment and was discontinued; so not many of them were made.
@@tasatort9778 not true at all. The Warlock was just in testing at the end of B5. In the Sequel crusade, it is specifically stated that only a handful had come off the production lines. But Warlocks are seen onscreen in both the movies " A call to arms " and in " The lost tales" . Warlocks have 2 of G.O.D cannons off of earth's defense platforms. It's widely believed that a Warlock can one shot Sharlin Cruiser. That's not to say that a Sharlin can't take out a warlock either. Both are best mode.
@@terrencejones9817 It's in the extra features of our box sets where he states that the Warlocks proved disappointing and were ultimately discontinued.
@@tasatort9778 maybe you remember the quote wrong.
"while the warlock was originally intended to replace the omega destroyer, the idea was flawed and has since been dropped. instead the warlock is now designed to lead squadrons of omegas into battle. the warlock would be a dreadnaught in anyone elses fleet, and now considered an apt replacement for the aging nova class"
The Warlock was the best EA had(besides the Victory class destroyers). It was originally scheduled to have shadow bio armor installed on every ship.
Warlocks have 2 GOD cannons. The GOD cannon's power output rivaled the Shadow and Vorlon death rays. Nothing survives a direct hit. Above 64 megatons per pulse. Capable of destroying the entire eastern seaboard of the United States with a single sweep.
The Omega-class and ugly brick but some how you can't help but love the dam thing lol
You're right about the lack of gravity contingency being a weakness, however, the Minbari don't really have any way to know that they don't have zero-G accommodations inside the ship if they destroyed the centrifuge.
This old TV show definitely deserves a modern day reboot.
It is easily my favorite B5 ship design. It is tough and aggressive plus distinctive.
The rotation was to save costs while filming. There were supposed to be belts and whatnot. It was discussed in production notes.
Something you missed:
Things don't "stop" moving in space unless acted on by another force. The spin-gravity, for instance -- presumably contact between spinning and non-spinning is magnetic, not ancient gears, so practically frictionless and, thus, the spin will continue spinning unless something jams in there to grind between the spinning and non-spinning components.
Though, I must admit, the show doesn't exactly use realistic science anyway (both sound in space and fighters and ships banking as though in an atmosphere or on an ocean the most obvious non-science elements) so maybe real physics is wrong to point out as something you missed.
Even if they aren't largely frictionless, the sheer bulk of the spinning elements means they would continue to spin for awhile even if whatever motor is spinning them loses power.
Maintaining a constant rate of speed (such as the spin) actually doesn't require a lot of energy, even within an atmosphere. Realizing this is a key to maximizing your fuel efficiency in your car when driving: when facing stop and go, maintain a steady speed. Accelerating to a speed takes a lot more gas than maintaining a speed, regardless of whether the direction of movement is linear (car on a road) or angular (something spinning about an axis).
Exactly. Someone else considered the physics of rotation!.
Regarding the 'banking' fighters, it may be due to pilot health (blatantly ignoring TV's required Rule-of-Cool). Blackouts are far more preferable to redouts and the banking maneuvers would potentially keep the pilots more combat effective for longer engagement durations.
I agree on the momentum of the gravity block, but I disagree (mostly) on the show not using realistic science.
Whenever you see a Starfury "bank" you see the manouvering thrusters fire. They aren't making the turn with flaps and aerodynamics, but by firing one or more thrusters in the opposite direction.
I suppose it's possible that such a small thruster wouldn't have enough output for the manouvers they do in the show... but that's the kind of math question that's deeeeep in nerdy nickpick territory. The basic principle is though holds up well enough for even NASA engineers to praise the show and they surely know better about these things than either of us I imagine.
The only exception to that are fighters of advanced species with gravity drives like the Minbari and Centauri (which includes the White Stars which have a hybrid system utilizing both gravity drives and visible engines with exhausts).
As for sound in space... yeah, the show creators were aware of the issue, but basically felt that going without sound just wouldn't land well with the majority of the audience... which is probably true. Not even the re-imagined BSG goes full quiet in space.
@@Norbert_Sattler There's no banking in space. There's nothing to bank on. That's pure fantasy. Aircraft in an atmosphere bank because of wings and flaps versus the atmosphere ... but there's no atmosphere for this effect in space. There's also no "maximum speed" ... if you keep your engines on and aimed in one direction, you will continue to accelerate for as long as you have fuel. Objects in space don't fly like planes in an atmosphere, period. If you put your engines on full steering toward something, then change direction and fire your engines in the new direction, you will only slowly begin to alter your path from your old path to the new one.
@@howardagnew8471 Did you even read my comment?
Here, let me repost a key sentence again: "They aren't making the turn with flaps and aerodynamics, but by firing one or more thrusters in the opposite direction."
I am well aware that this is not banking, which is the reason why I put the word in quotation marks.
You'll see plenty of examples where Starfury's will turn around their own axis, while they keep flying in the same direction. Starfuries have powerful thrusters in every direction and furthermore those thrusters are as far away from the center of mass as it's possible on the ship. That gives them great manouverbility and enable them to make turns that look like they are banking, even when it isn't actual banking.
Wow that is one of the best ships I've ever seen
I believe the episode Severed Dreams (s3) is the only time I recall it being a mentioned concern. The first officer informs the captain that losing rotation will occur if more damage was taken.
The Omega design has always had a spot in my head and doesn't want to come out.
Whenever I'm listening to synthwave/retrowave, the Omega comes into my mind first (most likely due to the centrifuge)
The Omega is one of the best ships but sadly was also a great disappointment due to the shows budget. That budget never allowed the ship to be shown at its full potential.
The Omega class is my favorite ship class in all of sci-fi. the rotation was especially impressive back in 1994 when all other franchises were using static models.
I love the irony that when it became know that Babylon 5 would use only CGI, the Star Trek producers said "We will never use anything other than models" or somesuch, only for later Star Trek series to hire the very people who made the effects of Babylon 5. :D
And the funny thing is they did all that not on some fancy specialist computers, but on regular machines you could buy at any consumer-level electronic store.
Really liking the B5 content. I like the Omega class had a ship and shows a logical advancement of the EA. They advanced and their first main ship doesn't completely alter their design philosophy. That giant leap is the Warlock class
The Omega is the boss. Only cooler ship in B5 is the Warlock. Which is a monster that deserved more screen time.
I think there is a line in the beginning of severed dreams were the omega gets hit, and the XO mentions that another hit like that and we go zero-g. So i believe it was accounted for, at least in theory.
The Omega was the first truly believable space warship I can remember seeing. I understand that the rotating section is a liability, but considering how simulated gravity would greatly improve the vessel's endurance over the other ships in the Earthforce Navy, I think it's worth it. I think it would make more sense to have them serve as command ships/carriers for fleets of much smaller, zero-G only warships and not just fighters, though (like corvettes and frigates). Wouldn't be too difficult considering their size.
as for the centrifuge, it is so integral to the core of the ship that hitting it means you already pierced all the armor to the core and the ship is pretty much done for anyways.
Coriolis Effect would be pronounced given the radius and rotation speed. So the crew would be fighting against the ship trying to throw them sideways when standing, and fluids going sideways when poured.
the Omega is probably my personal all-time favorite capital sci-fi ship. It just radiates power and authority, ready to blast you to smitherines if you don't get out of it's way lol
I'm just bummed this was only a 5 year series.....loved this show....
I always thought it was odd the bridge was apparently in the centrifuge area, for basically the reasons you mention. It would make more sense for the bridge to be in a a low or zero G area of the ship, like in previous models and for the 'close to Earth gravity' areas for be crew quarters, the mess, gym etc and be utilised mains as a means to keep the crew fit and healthy on longer 'tours', preventing the laundry list of problems the human body faces with prolonged exposure to reduced gravity.
As far as i know, no contingency was ever mentioned in the show. (i've watched it though several times.)
Though as a beta cannon source, the Babylon 5 Security Manual, said that the rotating section can be stopped and locked down if heavy combat was expected; then the crew would have to use hand holds to move around or go to secondary control rooms that had the older Nova class layout in the core of the ship.
I think it is a great star ship and a fantastic TV show that really deserves more credit for giving us intelligent scripts.
Oh, LoreDude. The Omega wasn't a heavy cruiser. Your title got it right. She was a destroyer, which, in Earthforce-speak, meant she was the top of the line capital ship. No Earthforce whip was bigger, more durable or meaner when her fangs were out until the Warlock class entered service. The Omegas were an upgrade from the Nova class cruisers that, shall we say, were little more than target practice in the Earth-Minbari war.
Would be interesting to see stuff on the Freespace ships like the GTD Bastion which is similar to B5 tech before they encounter the Shivans and reverse engineer shields and beam weapons.
A GTD Orion would be an interesting match-up against the Galactica in that they are both old school carrier/battleship designs. Both are meant to use fighters as as screen and to increase engagement range, while still being meant to enter a front-line battle themselves.
We know from sourcebooks they were aware of the problem of losing gravity in combat, and that they could lock it down to prevent damage to mechanisms while in combat but not what they did about it. However, they also found the mechanism far more durable than they feared, to the point we never see an Omega lose gravity.
If I remember Earth DID have antigrav tech however it was a huge energy drain so it was reserve for the bridge and the starfury launch bays which were on top of each other on the bridge of the ship. The spinning area was for crew and storage areas that would be non critical if the area stopped spinning. The minibari engines were just so much more powerful that they could afford to power antigrav plates throughout the entire ship. The bridge was in the front of the ship that's why people would react when the front of the ship took heavy damage.
Most of the front section was weapons/sensor arrays, the starfury hangar and associated launchbay. The bridge was inside the rotating segment and did not have antigrav tech. That technology was received much later through the Alliance.
Sounds like a t-shirt idea: "It's not sci-fi unless there is a 'dyne' on the end of the manufacturing company"; combined with a list of such names. (And maybe a joke name or two)
Funnily enough Rocketdyne is a company that exists as it has been said in other comments.
I have always loved the look of the Omega Destroyer even back when it was known as the Alexi Leonov from Arthur C. Clarkes 2010.
The reason why I loved Babyon 5 was the future/present future they made of different races and technology showed that we as humans where just another race of beings trying to understand and get along with other species that where at least as powerful or more so than us.
Yaaaaaaasssssss!!! Moar B5 ships Lore King! Query, will you call the White Star "Sheridan's Pimp Hand"?
Double points if you call it Ivanova's pimp hand😁
Not sure if you didn't know or just decided to not include due to it never been shown but there were a lot of concepts and ideas that were supposed to be included on the Omega Class but never could due to both budget concerns as well as CGI limitations back during those years.
For example, in regards to the centrifuge. The Centrifuge design was also intended to be a launch system for the Starfuries. Allowing those fighters to be slingshot out through the centrifugal force. The giant forward hanger mouth at the front was never intended to be a hanger. It was actually supposed to be a thruster to slow down and reverse the ship and armours up during battle.
Weapon systems that were never used included the mine launchers at the front that would have launched Gigaton-level mines at the enemy like the Narn Energy mines.
There was also the lesser known E-Web defence system. This was basically their version of the Polarised Hull Plating. Numerous emitters line the hull of the ship in a grid-shaped pattern, each one generating overlapping spheres of magnetic fields that are used to disperse energy weapons such as plasma bolts. This system, however, is weak against beams, specifically Neutron Beams as Neutrons carry no magnetic charge to be affected by the E-Web, like the ones the Minbari use. (This is mainly from the tabletop so it's not as well known).
This site is a good source for Babylon 5 lore in regards to weapon, armour and ship technology.
efni.org/
The Omega class has a very realistic feel of how we would have progressed into building a space combat vessel; a little rough edges, bulky and unrefined, but a utility ship nonetheless.
AFAIK based on the show, there is no redundancy system should their rotating axis go out of commission (thinking of the opening scene dialog from Severed Dreams where an Omega class took a direct laser hit on her aft port axis, there was a real worry of going z-grav if they took another hit there). But because of the bulk of the Omega, I don't think the design team was too worried about it or didn't bother since their level of tech really didn't have anything that could compensate. Plus the amount of firepower from her dorsal and ventral turrets adds another layer of protection, despite being front and aft firing arc heavy.
I would have loved to have seen one of these go up against a Mimbari battlecruiser mono on mono.
I imagine by the time you disabled the rotational gravity, the ship would already be pretty much cut in half and disabled anyway. The shaft that thing spins on would logically be in the deepest most heavily armored part of the ship
I always appreciated B5's attempt to inject some actual science into its sci-fi. As such, I really appreciate the centrifuge on the Omega. I love the design. But yeah, the need for grav-boots, hand holds, seat-belts, etc, is critical if you're going to rely on something like that.
The Poseidon supercarrier was an Omega variant with a double fighter complement (96) and reduced weapons. Also a better hyperdrive for faster getaways. Only present in the tabletop game, but the game is stated to be canon.
You missed out that the Omega also has two heavy plasma morters - they're those big cannons under the flight bay at the front of the ship - that were also capable of firing nuclear and energy mines.
I loved the design of these ships. They brought a lot of classic scifi aesthetics into modern scifi.
The Omega-class ships really seemed to be the best Earth could do without help from an alien race providing artificial gravity. The big laser cannons were impressive!
It's a very powerful ship. It's pretty incredible that earth, one of the youngest space capable species, came up with it.
The Hyperion was manufactured by a rival company called Karmatech, so not everything has “dyne”
From what I read, I recall mention of artificial gravity being installed but of an inferior design or quality. If I remember correctly they could only spend a limited amount of time in the artificial gravity before having to step into the centrifugal section.
I think when the valen class was shown it was tacitly accepted that having centrifuges was a major weakness in ships. Still given the choice between ships with centrifuge and gravity and ships with no gravity I think the balance is worth it. Having gravity would mean it could operate for longer without having to change crew and it would be easier to operate the ship.
God the space battles were something else in b5
The earth ship designs showed humanity's eagerness to enter into space political affairs before they were ready "oh we dont have gravity, lets just making giant spinny ships..." and when looking at other races ships in comparison it showed. They were powerful but only because they jumped into weapon design first then sorted out the details of ship design later on.