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Back in university I had a whole seminar about how some imitations were made by local authorities in gaul, not by striking, but by casting a tin-silver alloy that looked a lot like full silver. Very fascinating!
Hi Leo, the first coin counterfeiter recorded by history (actually by Herodotus, the "Father of History") was Polycrates, tyrant of Samos (c.540-522 BC), who bribed the Spartans with gold- (electrum-) coated base metal coins to lift the siege of Samos... as Spartans were not used to handle money (in fact, they were forbidden to do it), they took the fake electrum staters and went back home... 😂 My oldest forgery is an Achaemenid siglos from Sardis, 5th cent. BC.
one of the things that I enjoy about collecting fourrees/counterfeits/imitations is the amount of mules I come across. counterfeiters weren't always very careful with their reverses, and it makes for an interesting chase trying to track down the particular coins that were being copied. Some of the fourrees that I have were also test cut prior to the core being sivlered, so they look like they've been agressively test cut and probably circulated for quite a while without anyone being the wiser.
The Hadrian denarius shown suggests for me that this plated coin was made at a Roman mint . The quality of engraving is too good to be that of a forger outside the mint. So some of the mint personnel, at times, were probably engaged in the making of a certain percentage of plated coins?
Either that or the dies have been smuggled from the mint. The possibilities are numerous, corrupt mint officials striking fakes at the mint, dies being smuggled and plated copies being made at another location... We cant even discard the possibility that these were sanctioned by some of the triumviri monetalis that ran the facility and these were being mixed with the good denarii, after all, the State engaging in fraud and scamming its citizens is something that has been done forever. One thing is almost certain in my view: The quality of the dies implies someone from the mint was involved.
It is interesting that plated coins are more common under some emperors than others. I notice a lot of them under Hadrian. I have a nice looking denarius of Hadrian that has a big chunk missing because the internal copper oxidized and the outer silver did not. I also have a heavily worn triple denarius of Hadrian from one of the eastern mints that is nearly unidentifiable with only patches of silver on the surface. Today if we had received a counterfeit coin or currency in change we would automatically report it to the government. Apparently the ancient response was to pass the coin on to another sucker. Thus, many of the ancient fakes are well circulated.
Practically all of them are rarer than the genuine equivalents. The mintage was far lower, the structure didn't withstand time as well, and some were destroyed when detected as forgeries.
Great vid, as usual. Good quality silvered "denarii" of Trajan, Hadrian, and Markus Aurelius are extremely common here in Ukraine. Local archeologists and numismatists call them "limes denarii". Most of them are struck with original dies so it's speculated that they were issued by the real roman mints for trade with scythians
Great video, but...just to be clear: does the third category fall into the so-called 'barberous radiates'? Also, a bit more information on what constituted a 'local mint' would be great. Perhaps these types of coins deserves its own, separate video...
I know of a professor who would use good fake ancient coins in his classes. That way he could provide each of his students with an example of the coin discussed.
Yes people make them now. But instead of trying to pass them off as ancient coins. They pass them off as fakes made in the 1700-1900s. They are still worth lots of money and people don't even think about them being new.
I might have a fake ancient coin, well I do have one. The question is whether it's ancient or modern. How could I go about finding out which it is ? Should I send it in to be graded and tell them of my suspicions, is there an expert i could ask ? Thanks in advance......
We all should come across one fake here or there, this shouldnt prevent us from collecting ancients. Thats why need to do research on your dealers and only get those that offer lifetime guarantee, so you can return them in case they turn out to be fake.
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Would you like to support the channel and my work?
Consider buying some channel Merch! You get a cool T-Shirt or Mug and you help me make more Ancient Numismatic content. Thank you!
leob.creator-spring.com/
Barbaric initiations can be pretty comically bad at times
Back in university I had a whole seminar about how some imitations were made by local authorities in gaul, not by striking, but by casting a tin-silver alloy that looked a lot like full silver. Very fascinating!
Hi Leo, the first coin counterfeiter recorded by history (actually by Herodotus, the "Father of History") was Polycrates, tyrant of Samos (c.540-522 BC), who bribed the Spartans with gold- (electrum-) coated base metal coins to lift the siege of Samos... as Spartans were not used to handle money (in fact, they were forbidden to do it), they took the fake electrum staters and went back home... 😂 My oldest forgery is an Achaemenid siglos from Sardis, 5th cent. BC.
one of the things that I enjoy about collecting fourrees/counterfeits/imitations is the amount of mules I come across. counterfeiters weren't always very careful with their reverses, and it makes for an interesting chase trying to track down the particular coins that were being copied. Some of the fourrees that I have were also test cut prior to the core being sivlered, so they look like they've been agressively test cut and probably circulated for quite a while without anyone being the wiser.
I bet moneyers could have made a fortune engraving and smuggling dies… the style is just too accurate
Moonlighting 100% happened
The Hadrian denarius shown suggests for me that this plated coin was made at a Roman mint . The quality of engraving is too good to be that of a forger outside the mint.
So some of the mint personnel, at times, were probably engaged in the making of a certain percentage of plated coins?
Either that or the dies have been smuggled from the mint.
The possibilities are numerous, corrupt mint officials striking fakes at the mint, dies being smuggled and plated copies being made at another location...
We cant even discard the possibility that these were sanctioned by some of the triumviri monetalis that ran the facility and these were being mixed with the good denarii, after all, the State engaging in fraud and scamming its citizens is something that has been done forever.
One thing is almost certain in my view: The quality of the dies implies someone from the mint was involved.
It is interesting that plated coins are more common under some emperors than others. I notice a lot of them under Hadrian. I have a nice looking denarius of Hadrian that has a big chunk missing because the internal copper oxidized and the outer silver did not. I also have a heavily worn triple denarius of Hadrian from one of the eastern mints that is nearly unidentifiable with only patches of silver on the surface. Today if we had received a counterfeit coin or currency in change we would automatically report it to the government. Apparently the ancient response was to pass the coin on to another sucker. Thus, many of the ancient fakes are well circulated.
I found a counterfeit forree denarius of Geta in a lot of coins. How does the value of counterfeits compare to reals?
Honestly not much variation, fakes are worth more sometimes, real ones are worth more sometimes
So are some of the counterfeit strikes far scarcer than the real coin that was copied?
Practically all of them are rarer than the genuine equivalents. The mintage was far lower, the structure didn't withstand time as well, and some were destroyed when detected as forgeries.
Great vid, as usual. Good quality silvered "denarii" of Trajan, Hadrian, and Markus Aurelius are extremely common here in Ukraine. Local archeologists and numismatists call them "limes denarii". Most of them are struck with original dies so it's speculated that they were issued by the real roman mints for trade with scythians
Great vid Leo.👍
Thanks Gordon! It was a fun one to make.
les go baby! this what ive been waitin for!🎉
Great video, but...just to be clear: does the third category fall into the so-called 'barberous radiates'? Also, a bit more information on what constituted a 'local mint' would be great. Perhaps these types of coins deserves its own, separate video...
I know of a professor who would use good fake ancient coins in his classes. That way he could provide each of his students with an example of the coin discussed.
Got a fourre of Domitian, the quality of it is very good, and I bet plenty were fooled by it before
Many Fourees are very well made. I firmly believe lots of mintworkers operated clandestine fouree mints on the side.
I have a real Phoenicia Shekel and also an ancient forgery Phoenicia Shekel. To me the ancient forgery is much more interesting!
😲😭
Does fakes of ancient fakes exist?
Yes people make them now. But instead of trying to pass them off as ancient coins. They pass them off as fakes made in the 1700-1900s. They are still worth lots of money and people don't even think about them being new.
I've got small Antoniniani from Claudius Gothicus and Tetricus I that may possibly be unofficially minted ones
These are very common, but are still fascinating coins. There was definitely a shortage of coin at that time due to the rampant inflation :)
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I have a Fourré of Hadrian and I actually love it. Everything that has Hadrian on it makes me happy, since he's my favorite emperor.
Im planning an episode on Hadrian early next year, you will enjoy it :)
@@ClassicalNumismatics Sounds nice, I'll watch it.
Very cool!
I might have a fake ancient coin, well I do have one. The question is whether it's ancient or modern. How could I go about finding out which it is ? Should I send it in to be graded and tell them of my suspicions, is there an expert i could ask ? Thanks in advance......
I've got some videos on fake detection in my beginners playlist, I recommend you check it out.
I do have a fake. So bummed...
We all should come across one fake here or there, this shouldnt prevent us from collecting ancients. Thats why need to do research on your dealers and only get those that offer lifetime guarantee, so you can return them in case they turn out to be fake.
📽️👍👍👍👍👍
Hamen chhalkat jaaye
I think they are called contemporary counterfeits
Correct.