If you watch the whole video we’ll give you a digital high five. _Guaranteed!*_ About spoilers: minor spoilers (on just the Hourglass Twins) begin at 14:05; major spoilers (for rest of the game) begin at 31:15. We warn you at those points. There are slight, intermittent audio issues early in the video. These disappear. Thank you for watching! You can buy us coffee here: ko-fi.com/togamesitmayconcern _*Leave a comment letting us know. High five is an emoji._
Im on that period of the year when i just consume content about this game trying to fill the void it left on my heart. Thank you for your 2-hours contribution Sr.
Wow, this channel is something special! The integration of two different perspectives is unique (and especially valuable for this game) and you two bounce off each other's ideas so fluidly I can tell you've essentially been doing it your whole lives. Definitely going to keep up with what yall do going forward!
The ending of Outer Wilds is one of the most phenomenal bits of storytelling and gameplay I've ever experienced, and I have a lot of thoughts about it that I love to talk about. First is the irony of it. A large part of the game is searching for a solution to the supernova. How can you stop the sun from exploding? Yet in the end, you're powerless to stop a supernova. All you can do is create a new universe. It should feel more empowering, yet the irony drives in your own powerlessness. And second is the themes of the Eye itself. I do love how it's open to interpretation. But I think that the implication is that the Eye is a way for the universe to evolve. I think that if the Eye is not observed, it just tries the same thing again but this time hopefully someone observes it. But the only people who would see the Eye's signal and follow it are the curious. Those who look at the universe, not with fear, but with wonder. And their experiences do affect what happens in the Eye, and how the new universe looks. If you don't meet Solanum, you don't end up seeing the little bug aliens. Your experiences and knowledge affect what the Eye produces. Thus, I believe that the Eye is a way for the universe to evolve. Each time it produces a new universe, that universe is based on the wonder and curiosity of the Observer. As a result, each successive universe is even more wonderful, even more curious. It's beautiful. We are the universe experiencing and exploring itself. And this means that the universe exists for the sake of curiosity and exploration.
Wow, beautifully articulated and inspired and insightful comment! I had no idea about the link between meeting Solanum and witnessing the bugs after the credits-really, really nice of you to bring that to our attention. Thank you very much! 🖐
I think the ending is less about the player character realizing the ultimate futility of their situation and "deciding" to "creating a new universe", and more about the player character finally realizing that they have no control over the end of their universe, and having a melancholy moment of reflection with the people and places they've come to learn about and love, as they see it all be erased. I see the post credits scene as being more of a message to the player themselves than to the in game, player character. The player character had their moment of bittersweet reunion with their fellow explorers, before their experience ends, and the end screen just shows that somewhere, some time else there are still planets to be explored and lives to be experienced.
The ending scene is changed even more if you complete the DLC. There's also a nice little bit where if you fire the little scout into the eye of the universe or not makes a small change. But yes, the 13 million years later is only seen by the player, as the hatchling dies one final time by the big bang that creates the next universe. That's their reward in a sense, they get to see the big bang with their own eyes.
You, the observer, become essentially God. The first being of the new universe and the last of the old. You create the new universe how your mind wants to. The irony being you never get to see what you've made. I'd say a front row seat to the big bang is a prize enough.
Seeing how I've already played the game and can't really re-experience the magic of discovery this game provides, I appreciated walking through your thoughts on how you experienced each of these moments. I miss this game, and all I can do is watch it through other eyes now.
One nitpick 1:21:07 - the Nomai didn't cause the Interloper to explode, heat from the sun caused the pressurized core to rupture and release all the ghost matter, killing everyone in the system instantly. Ghost matter doesn't penetrate underwater which is why proto-Hearthians survived the mass extinction.
Yes, you're completely right about that. We do eventually bring up the survival of the Hearthians being contingent on the ghost matter's inability to enter water, but we hadn't realized at the time the key insight about the reason for the Interloper's explosion. That said, much of the discussion that follows about luck still applies. We hope you find it interesting.
I'd love to see a follow-up from this channel after having played the Echoes of the Eye DLC. I feel like the developers were self aware of some points you brought up around sacrificing rational thought for pursuing an unknown entity, among many other things. The DLC added to this story and world in a way I'd never imagined. It takes good sci-fi and transcends it to the greatest sci-fi of all time in my opinion.
Because of how long this video took to create, we're going to focus on some other topics and games to give ourselves a breather, and then we might return to Echoes of the Eye. I started the DLC, and I so far already find it incredible. So I am eager to return. But we also have to make sure we have something of worth to say, and that takes some time. Thank you, though, for being curious and caring about our thoughts.
RE: the 14.3 billion years later thing... I find it interesting that if You look at how both of the Nomai settlements ended up being on the interior of their planets, that the new Planets of this Universe all seem to be shells which are habitable on the inner surface; a part of what had been observed before shaping what came after
One of the best gaming documentaries I've ever watched. This is a work of art, about a unique piece of history. I loved every moment as a fan of Outer Wilds, and as a creator, I've met a new standard in work quality. I'm off to play Outer Wilds again.
@@technoboop1890 If you mean recreate what was felt in the first playthrough, that's true, but with the high skill level for movement, mods and just the general ease of loading up the game to check out something again means there are still reason to go back now and then.
This commentary on Outer Wilds was phenomenal. It didn't occur to me to think of the Nomai and having 2 separate takes on the Eye, one religious and one more scientific, or that their drive to discover it boarded on obsessive. You both had some fantastic insights. Seeing that this channel has less than 1,000 subscribers is criminal, but it makes me super happy to have found this well thought out video! Super high quality. The respect you've given this game is well deserved.
Thank you so much! And high five for watching! 🖐 Your words are much appreciated. We'll continue releasing the best thoughts we have, and hopefully over time those words will reach more and more eager ears. But we're happy to have the small audience we have and to have now received your nice words alongside them.
this is such a high quality video i didn't even realize it only had 9k views. this entire video was very enlightening in each section and it was really enjoyable. i never thought about the different parts of the society, just the people that you see popup all the time. also, if you ever get time, the dlc is also very good and kinda explains some parts of the game further relating to the eye (and it adds a new thing to the ending once you've completed the dlc). and i think the species added in the dlc would be interesting to discuss. don't want to say much out of fear of spoiling it though.
I know a spoiler warning is given in the pinned comment and in the video, but if you're watching this and haven't played the game, stop watching and go play it if you can. Even if you don't mind spoilers, you will have a much better experience with the game if you go in *COMPLETELY* blind. This is a great video talking about this absolute masterpiece of a game, and you should come back after playing, but don't ruin this incredible experience for yourself.
@@ToGamesItMayConcern personally, I think no music, that way we can hear what you guys are saying nice and clearly. I'll be checking for that future podcast option if it comes about!
6:27 Outer Wilds forcing you to hold to jump (and not just press to jump) at the very start of the game sets such a great tone for how the game will differ from most. Like a Metroid game that blocks your path right, and forces you to go left to unblock it.
This is a really good and detailed essay on the game. It's pretty meta to think about the game "Outer Wilds" as something like the Eye which people keep wanting to pursue. The whole OW community is alwyas trying to pursue getting all the knowledge and experience out of the game. Some people might pursue re-living outer wilds by watching or helping others play, Some people write really good essays or documentaries on the game, Some people create great art based on the game, Some people just love to discuss endlessly about tiny little details in the game. I love how you end the essay with the thought: The game started a journey for curiosity but didn't end it. That makes this game so good, there's so much room for more discovery and this game really leaves you wanting to discover more. And in what way or what order you discover more is completely open for interpretation. Thanks a lot again both for the new views you've given me on my journey for curiosity :)
Always grand to see a grand game being given a grand overview! FYI it became my Game of the Decade, purely on the back of it being creative enough to create a mini solar system, but also focused enough to bring such a vast scale and make it all incredibly detailed. However, this was even before I engaged on all the content created from others playing it. Meaning that it extends out far more than as just a game, but a reflection of the Humanity's inner most willingness to discover the truth of this universe!
You know, that's alright and completely understandable: the game pushes fear and phobia to its limits. Thank you, either way, for choosing to hear our thoughts. You can play the game vicariously through ours and others' experiences.
What?! You can solve the ATProject warp with the scout like that?! Just a few days ago I saw Symbalily solve it by blocking the tornado above with the ship parked there (which I also didnt know was possible). I solved it by hiding under the bridge and then stepping into the platform mid-tornado as I'm pushing down with the jetpack. My other friend did the same but with that alcove you were standing in. It just shows how many approaches there are to some of these.
Incredible work, especially from such a small channel, I’m so excited to see what stuff you have in store. This is really amazing. Outer Wilds is one of those games I can never get tired of hearing people talk about. Thank you for giving me some really great content on it.
love the analysis here. one issue though is that the nomai didn't cause the ghost matter to rupture, that happened because of proximity to the sun, and would have done so without their involvement
1:15:28 That idea and your whole story of dealing with control in regards to your grief - condolences for your loss; is very poignant. That's really a precise wording I haven't been able to articulate myself.
56:33 - I'm still not sure I agree with the interpretation that the Eye Shrines and Detectors\Probes represent different sects of Nomai, but I do dispute the final assertion that something discovered from the Quantum Moon path is necessary for completing the game. Of the four Big Mysteries (ATP, Vessel, Orbital Probe Cannon, and Quantum Moon), the first three are necessary - you can't accidentally complete the game without them. Unless I'm forgetting something critical, without the Quantum Moon, the final act of the game might be a little more confusing or frustrating (and Solanum won't be there), but you'd still be likely to finish, even if only by accident. Also, the Nomai didn't release the ghost matter by discovering it. They just arrived right before the cataclysm. Similar to your own experiences in the game - you can only get to the Sun Station, or the Tower of Quantum Knowledge, or even the High Energy Lab, at a specific point in the loop. The Interloper had been discovered entering the system and they were able to explore its core because it was getting close enough to the sun for its icy surface to melt, which was the same trigger for its core to rupture and blanket the system in ghost matter. They happened to be in the system at the time of that calamity, the same way you happen to be alive at the end of the universe. I found it interesting that you showed the High Energy Lab experiment clip several times, but never showed it in the high energy state. In case you missed it, the switch upstairs redirects energy from the Sunless City to the experiment chamber, allowing you to see very clearly the probe emerging from the white hole before it enters the black hole. (You can also break spacetime by recalling it in the short window after it emerges but before it enters, one of the more entertaining alternate endings to the game.) I also think the idea of Escall's clan "abandoning home" isn't all that accurate either. They left where they were in a hurry without telling anyone where they were going, but it isn't clear where they even were when they started. The children's report about the 10-year Festival highlights that the Nomai are a nomadic race. Their Vessels are their homes. They're restless if they aren't traveling and discovering. The fact that they built settlements at all is the aberration, drawn as they were by the allure of the Eye. We also DO know about the fate of the other Nomai, and they DO have a way of communicating. The communications board in the Vessel that you show as this is mentioned is receiving comparatively recent messages. It's been so long since Escall's clan warped into Dark Bramble that the tale has passed into legend, and they're starting to experience the death of the universe, forcing them to take shelter in "relatively stable" systems - which will inevitably suffer the same fate as ours. Fun fact about the ATP warp - I believe you're supposed to just use the sandstream itself as the clue that the warp pad is active. When I played Outer Wilds, I used the Scout trick to know when to warp through, but in that version of the game that could actually break the return warp pad, trapping you inside the ATP. Always interesting to see players undertaking the final trip by following the Escape Pod 3 distress signal rather than just using the computer to mark the Vessel. One thing that you didn't lean into particularly hard in the commentary is what the player's effect is on the universe that comes after. That the characters at the end are not themselves, but your memories of them. Solanum alludes to this by saying "thank you for remembering me". Gabbro just says it outright, "I mean, not me, exactly, but close enough." The 14.3 Billion Years Later graphic also changes subtly based on what you discover, highlighting that your memories are used to influence the next big bang. Jumping into the smoke at the end is definitely collapsing the infinite possibilities represented by the Eye, but it seems to be necessary because the universe you inhabited was all but dead. The Eye was suggested by the Nomai to be older than the universe itself, so I think it's reasonable to assume this was a recurring pattern. To be clear: I held many misconceptions about the plot of the game even through the end of my original playthrough. One big one was my belief that the Interloper was triggering the supernova. Despite my nitpicking, I really enjoyed your analysis. I really appreciated how you incorporated elements of historical theory into your presentation. I don't think I disagree with any of your philosophical observations, just some of the details about game world and plot. My fundamental take home from Outer Wilds is that things come to an end, and there can be a comfort in accepting that, but endings are necessarily new beginnings and we can hope and strive to leave a positive influence for the future to build on. I hope y'all follow the mystery from the Radio Tower on Timber Hearth and I'd love to hear your thoughts on what you find! Also: Digital High Five, please!
Wow, thank you for the thorough feedback. We made some mistakes, and we appreciate those being pointed out. We're glad that you still found some worth in viewing our extensive analysis. Here is your well-deserved high five! 🖐
Thank you for giving such a detailed account of your thoughts and interpretations. It’s always such a lovely thing to hear how this game is viewed by everyone. Like most other people, this game had a profound impact on me, and I don’t think it’s hard to see why. Like many others (and having seen your response to it), I do recommend playing the DLC when you have time and energy to, but what I’m more interested in suggesting is that you engage with Andrew Prahlow’s extended soundtracks. You can find them just about anywhere, but the Outer Wilds Reprise as well as the last 6 tracks on the special edition of the OST are sort of extended meditations on the game in musical form and while they don’t greatly change anything, I think they are valuable additions to the sort of thematic core of the experience. As a final note, as a musician, I love the interpretation that the sound the quantum objects make is either the sound of the last universe, or the combination of all the past universes. So as such, either the next universe’s eye signal is the Travelers theme, or it gets added to the signal. Either way, I think that is a beautiful sentiment
Thank you so much for this, you made me discover a bunch of these philosophers to expand my horizons, as well as given a better understanding, put into words why we all love this game so much. Didn't think I was getting through the 2 hours but just got sucked in like into a black hole. Anyway, my original perception of the ending was-The song that the characters play represent conscience within the universe, and the different instruments each being varied opinions that these consciences take. They are what shape living beings into being able to discover and learn, to me, it is the essence of the universe. However, I believe you're pretty spot on with the "orb" being a choice you make, further insinuated by the flashing "possibilities" that appear on the orb as you look into it (something something quantum), and you making that choice acts as a way to add a touch of yourself into the next universe, to make it feel alive.
I’m so sorry about your cat, losing loved ones doesn’t get easier, no matter how big or small. Your related discussion of how we feel regret over a perceived control of the past, made me feel a lot better about regret. We tread a path, climb a mountain, turn and look back, and see that there were easier paths we could have taken. We feel shame for not having chosen better, but we actually had no choice because we lacked the knowledge. We shouldn’t punish our current selves for knowing something now, because it cannot change our past.
11:19 I disagree that you die, being that even when you fly far beyond the reaches of the supernova you are still sent back. I see it more as a recursion. Your only death is when you remove the warp core disabling the Ash Twin Project and your only life is the one in which you crack the code of the Eye. Perhaps I am wrong on this, but it felt really powerful that all these hours of memories flooding into a single person filled me with determination to see my venture through. Pedanticism aside, phenomenal video doing my favorite game justice. Hope we get another game that strikes such a chord with its gameplay like Outer Wilds did at some point in our lifetime.
Yes, that's a fair point. We should've worded that more carefully: in a hero's journey, the protagonist suffers a 'symbolic death,' a death of who they once were. The knowledge they gain changes who they now are and they can't return to that old self, thus the 'old self dies.' When the protagonist of Outer Wilds first 'dies' after interacting with the Nomai statue, they learn something so fundamental to their choices and actions and this information shifts the moment-to-moment meaning of their decisions to such a degree that they can't go back. This is a kind of death. But you're completely right, we shouldn't have called it a 'literal' one, because the conceit of this game is that death is not the permanent death we know. This goes to show the confusion in words: as context shifts, so too do words bend. Thank you for your comment!
genuinely one of the best video essays i've ever watched, and not even just about outer wilds (of which i consume way too many). the way you two brought in so many other ideas and specific quotes or philosophies to apply to the game was really interesting to follow along with and i think youve somehow talked about the game in a way that no one else has before. definitely am going to be coming back to this video for several rewatches, and i hope by that time its got the millions of views it deserves!!
An interesting thing I found when reading the Nomai's writings, is the translations the actual writings of the Nomai, or the writings of the nomai through the eyes of the Heartheans? So Take calling a damaged ship 'Mortally wounded' or asking 'is the ship unwell'. Do the Nomai talk about their ship as if it is a living being or is the Heartheans pension for having tree keepers and making their ships out of wood translating damaged ship as ship that is unwell. Or Broken ship as ship that is mortally wounded.
I always interpreted it as, since Quantum objects take the physical characteristics of what is around them and the Eye itself had never previously been observed, when you enter it, there are infinite possibilities of what it might become, but your presence makes it lock onto one possibility (much like quantum objects lock in a location when being observed), which is something that is familiar to you - a forest like the one in your home - the alien purply pillars presenting instead in the way your brain makes them present. To someone else, they might have looked different.
Similarly, if the Eye is physically affected by an observer's mind, then when you remember your friends, the Eye creates them there. And when it does, new observers are made. Those observers, all expressing a wish through song, make the Eye materially set the conditions for a new big bang.
This is such a great video, one of the things that your section on the danger of knowing reminded me of, is Faust by Goethe, with I assume either of you know, both because it is my assumption that you both have degrees in english, and because you guys seem to be pretty well acclimated with classic literature, atleast in my opinion. I feel like a lot of your videos take me back to my english classes, in the sense that you guys seem to talk about it from a more literary perspective than what I believe is common in most analysis. It is very cool to see how your academic background may impact how you talk about things, that is if my assumption is correct. I am curious what got you guys into writing/teaching english, and also if either of you published a thesis in any english or writing fields, and if so, what is was about.
Thank you! This is such a lovely comment! Yes, you're completely right, we both went for English degrees. No published thesis to point to, but I work as an English teacher and both of us as book editors from time-to-time (the one writing now is the first voice you hear in the video). We both, being brothers, grew up in a writerly household: our mother worked as a journalist and still works now sometimes as an editor; our father also worked as a journalist and is now a published author and speaker with many successful books-but we'd rather not reveal too many specifics. Bookshelves lined our home growing up and now that I'm older line where I'm living and sitting right this moment. It's wonderful that you sense that bookish inclination in our words. That feels great to read-It's almost as if we've made a Faustian bargain for such a lifestyle! Thank you for joining us here and for your nice comment!
@@ToGamesItMayConcern I appreciate the response! That sort of environment would definitely prime you to have some sort of love of books, although it doesn't necessarily predetermine you to love literature, but I think it's very interesting your parents backgrounds. I am curious if either of you guys have played the persona series before. It's a JRPG, I believe you may find it interesting, as it delves into themes such as social connections, the meaning of death, the value of truth, justice, finding your true self, change, and the human psyche. These videos are great, I think that throughout these videos there definitely are parts that make me think of literary theory and literary criticsm, so it's very cool to see how your educational backgrounds influence how you analyze media. I recently watch your videos on games that shift reality and disco elysium, I certainly hope that y'all can find another game as great as that one, or one that leaves you feeling a similar way you did after completing it.
Games so rarely reach the register of Disco Elysium that we may return to that game for a deeper dive, one that truly offers that masterpiece the analysis it deserves. We've both played Persona 5 Royal and half of Persona 4. We loved our time with them, but we weren't making videos then. The remake of Persona 3 is now on Game Pass and I downloaded it and tried it for consideration, but we've had so little time lately and have been slowly working through four-ish separate videos at once; at some point we actually need to finish at least one of them. Have you seen our 3-hour OMORI vid? We cover just about all the themes you listed and more. You might really get something out of it (though I know it's super lengthy). The tiny bit I've played of Persona 3 makes me think it could be a game we attend to carefully in the future. It seems to offer much to think about, just like the other Persona titles. Did you go for an English degree or do you currently work in relation to literature? Either way, it's great that you seem to care for and notice the significant themes within the works you consume.
@@ToGamesItMayConcern I actually did watch the Omori video, multiple times in fact, and it was the video that introduced me to your channel. Although it certainly was a very long video, it was, and still is, a very interesting video, and I think you guys cover very interesting topics in that video. I certainly do think that, out of all of the persona games, Persona 3 is the most worthy of a video made about it. I have not gotten an english degree, I don't work in relation to literature, the most education I would have that may be considered as being literature-adjacent would be psychology, besides that my experience with literature has mainly been writing papers on video games for personal pleasure. Actually, due to your video on Omori, I am in the process of drafting a paper on the psychological aspects of the characters in Omori. I am certainly excited for when you guys talk about whatever it is you are going to talk about next. Although you have been busy, I certainly hope you have been busy with things that you enjoy!
Oh, we've talked before! You're the reason we put Night in the Woods back on our potential games list!-I had a sense your name looked familiar. Tough to keep track, but I appreciate your recommendations and thoughts. Now I'm thinking about Night in the Woods again. Hmm, could connect to some other things we've been thinking about... I _love_ that you're contending with the psychology of the OMORI characters. These stories and the myriad social connections within them are fantastic opportunities to consider oneself in relation to others, and oneself in relation to one's own judgments of self. If you ever create something you're proud of and wish to share with us, please don't be shy! The fact that you're even _thinking_ about games in that way makes you extraordinary in this space of otherwise lighthearted and/or superficial criticism. Keep at it!
I'm only about five minutes in and I really appreciate how you guys call out our base assumptions and desires about how we experience games - like the world feeling real even when we look away, like its curated just for momentary display-and thoughts of this nature. bravo for being able to communicate these abstract, tip of your tongue but dont quite know whats happening or how to describe it kind of things that really help us know why we like what we like and why games feel how do they do over and again
Thank you! This is the struggle of game analysis: offering those tip-of-the-tongue observation in a coherent, resonant way. I'm glad you feel we're fulfilling our task, at least in some small way.
1:42:52 i actually learned about these kinda late.. lol. like i was trying to figure out how to get into ash twin and was like "OH... SO THOSE ARE WARP TOWERS!?"
I'm a bit sad that Echoes wasn't really talked about It's not so much a DLC as the flip side of a coin I played thru echoes before finishing the main game, and I'll tell you, the experience in Echoes doubled down my attempts to save everyone rather than go to the Eye itself Echoes does a good job of putting the fear of the universe ending into you if you don't know the vanilla ending.
@@ToGamesItMayConcern ran into it without really realizing it, so it was just another destination on my chart, treated it like I treated the interloper.
That's a fascinating way to play through the game. Seems like such an extensively rich area to explore prior to the interconnected web of the others. If I could do this video over again, I would've incorporated covering the DLC. Unfortunately, it just wasn't feasible in the time we had. Thanks for stopping by and giving us a sense of your unique playthrough.
Holy cow what an amazing video. The different interpretations at the end really made me think, and I never thought of your interpretation of the Nomai with the two different factions being scientific and religious. I always thought as them us just happy curious adventurers, so your more realistic interpretation made them much deeper than I ever thought they would be. The Last Question is my favorite Asimov short story, so it was cool to see how you linked it with Outer Wilds, my favorite game ever! It was also really cool to see how you included all the different philosophies from different people from our own world. Really this whole video is so good, I could go on and on about all the things I like about it, but I'll leave it off here :) Deserves millions of views at least. Please do a video on the DLC, because I saw in your ship log that you played it!
Thank you very much! And good eye: one of us has gotten partway through the DLC. We initially considered including it, but analyzing the original game took so much time on its own that we decided to hold off for a bit. We'll probably cover the DLC, but we're going to cover some other topics and games first, just to give ourselves a breather (it's been about a month-and-a-half of non-stop focus on Outer Wilds). We hope you don't mind the wait. Oh, and here's your digital high five! 🖐
@@ToGamesItMayConcern please take all the time in the world! Outer Wilds (and its DLC) are such multi-layered stories that it takes a lot of playing (and much more reflection) to come to analyses that are as incredibly coherent and insightful as the one in this video. Thanks so much for the video and for sharing your thoughts with us 🙏🏻
Really great discussion guys! Someone shared this on r/outerwilds, and that's how I found this. I love listening to or being part of discussion about this game, and the topics it touches, and other stuff like level design etc. This was a wonderful, wonderful discussion. And I am obviously left wondering why it was edited down to this length. Anyways, couple of things that I want to point out and discuss: - There are two more (4 more if you include the dlc). I do have to pose this question to you two though, that why do you not consider the final choice of removing the warp core and choosing not going to the Eye (and doing other ending), not a real choice, born of free will. The game never lays out the Final Voyage exactly, so the story and interpretations could go other ways too. - This one may or may not surprise you, but Kelsey Beachum (writer) definitely didn't want to portray Nomai as religious, as she doesn't like that writing trope in stories (as it's been done to death). So, you may wonder why call it 'Eye Shrine', well the story has the answer, you have the first Nomai translator tool. It can and does translate things incorrectly. A detail to notice is that there are no authors mentioned in 'Eye Shrines' as those two locations are places to discuss ideas about the Eye, however wild, or impossible they might be (the writing there says as much). - On your point of this clan having no connection to other clans: All Nomai are Nomads that traverse the Universe in their Clan's Vessel. They don't have a home planet. And the two tenets of Nomai philosophy are "Identifying" and "Explaining". Escall's Clan received a signal Older than the Universe itself (a detail that isn't even mentioned once in this video, now that I think about it) and what better thing to Identify and Explain then an anomaly that's possibly older than Universe itself. But things don't go as planned. Tragedy occurs, families get separated, people get killed, but Nomai remain curious. Exploring the planets they crashed at, and recreating some of the tech they had (warp cores, gravity crystals are new to them). Quantum Moon also keeps that curiosity alive. Generations pass, they explore it (unlike us, they didn't have rules written down for them). And after exploring Quantum Moon, they turn there attention back to Eye again (Eye Signal Locator, at Attlerock and Southern Observatory), with more knowledge acquired. - Very minor thing, but Pye never opened the Core of Interloper, it bursts open (due to the increased pressure inside it) as it approaches the Sun first time in it's entry in the star system. Also, High Energy Lab (prior to being used as the experiment ground, and Ash Twin Project planning location) is the powerhouse for Sunless City. Taking power from Solar Panel, and giving it to Sunless City. - Echoes of the Eye discussion video also possible? Once again this was a great video and discussion! Thanks for making this!
This is an excellent explanation of our mistakes, and I appreciate you taking the time to write it! 🖐 We began working on this video immediately after finishing the game, and we tried our best to be thorough and careful, but we also avoided viewing or reading explanations from elsewhere (as we didn't want to accidentally repeat anyone). As you so nicely articulate, we weren't perfect. But I'm glad you still enjoyed what we had to say. The free will question is tough. You're right, completely, that the player could remove the core, ending the loop and thus their life. Self-destruction is always available, but whether one can choose to do so, I'm not so sure: it seems descriptively like an option always available, but it being _unappealing_ is itself something uncontrolled, a bit like whether or not you could decide to be convinced by my argument-you either are or you aren't. And upon reflection you can imagine the ways you _could_ be convinced, but that word "could" carries a lot of existential weight: you felt what you felt after a long cascade of built-up factors that made your inclinations, and you did not choose that long line of factors, you merely felt what you felt and that became your "choice." In retrospect it will always feel as if it could have been a choice, but that does not make it actually so. To bring this point back directly to the game: you and I did finish the game, we ventured to the Eye; we also experimented with the other endings, but we could do so with the luxury of game-ified distance-we could experience those endings while also continuing to have the option to go back and experience the one that we truly want. Without that distance, without the option for restarting/rebirth-had self-destruction and therefore lack of knowing and therefore lack of finality been permanent-I would argue it would not be chosen and would only seem a choice when viewed at a distance. All the steps had been laid for the character, all the time invested, all the threads of curiosity left partially frayed... in one descriptive sense it is a choice yet made; in the sense of what could actually be for that character-being the exact sort of character to follow these steps so thoroughly-the choice loses its substance. One final, separate, point: the choice to destroy oneself is a compulsion born out of limited options, wherein one doesn't care for the choices given, feels trapped, and must exit. That is a "choice," but it certainly doesn't match freedom. (The argument against free will is especially hard to explain given our language has developed on the assumption of choice, which can make each word feel like a counter to the claim, but convention having tugged in that direction is not enough to prove the ontological claim. So I hope you can see past the tug of individual words to the point being made.) --- I told myself I wasn't going to write long responses like this (I should be focused on work or our next video), but I like the way you explain yourself, so I'm taking your comment seriously. This also feels like a choice to do so, but I would have to be a substantially different person to do otherwise. As to a couple of your other questions: (1) the full length audio covered every main section of every planet, which we found became an inundation of information that isn't always of equal value; we opted instead to keep the information that focused on main themes we wanted to touch on, as that becomes a building of momentum toward a main set of claims; (2) because covering the main game took so much longer than we expected, we ended up having to postpone covering the DLC; we probably will at some point, but for now we're going to take a break and cover some other topics and games-it's been a long stretch of time of only thinking about Outer Wilds.
@@ToGamesItMayConcern I wouldn't call not knowing that meta bit about translator tool a mistake. It is a definite choice by her to use certain words in the game, and because of that such a great video was made. I just wanted to let you know about that bit. In my interpretation, it could be that Science is Nomai's Religion. Sounds like an oxymoron, I know. Thanks for sharing more of your thoughts on the ending choice, and Thanks for replying even when you have more great videos to work on! ✋
I bought and played this game some days ago, when you made the first post saying that you were making a long video about Outer Wilds. I knew about this game, but hadn't played yet, and your post encouraged me to try it. And I'm very glad I did, it's a wonderful game! Thank you very much, I enjoyed playing the game and watching the video!
I love that we helped inspire you to play the game! It is such a delicately-crafted experience, and though that intricate structure can feel overwhelming or slow-going at first, we believe it pays off as an overarching experience of learning, growing, seeking, and finding. We hope our video resonates with your experience or at least prompts further thoughts and interpretations of your own. This is a game of mystery and as such there is no one answer. And since it sounds like you've seen the full video already, here's a high five! 🖐 We very much appreciate it!
Hands down, your guys' best video yet! Ive never played the game but I feel like I know it on such a deep level. Thank you, guys! Really a treat to watch. I cant wait to see what you have in store for us next!
Ahh, a shame, this game is such a once-in-a-lifetime experience, but I guess this video isn't the worst way to experience it for the first time. It's very well made.
Just beat this game, and your excellent video essay popped up in my feed. Really eloquent thoughts, brilliantly picking apart what I loved about this game. Cheers!
39:44 This is actually addressed by the Nomai themselves. It takes place in the Sunless City at the back of the tree area with the light switches, where Ramie confirms that they can't practically find another way of generating the energy required and Pye, although a bit headstrong, assures Idaea who is airing his grievances that they wouldn't use the Sun Station if it turned out that they weren't certain that they could avoid disaster. That's why the Nomai were not making as much as a gamble as what is described here. They were even ready to fire the Sun Station, and actually did, it just didn't work. As Yarrow said, the whole endeavour was 'theoretically sound', they just didn't get the power. If the probability of failure was still significant, I don't think Idaea would have let it gone through *and* that Pye would go back on her word.
i think the riskiest part of the ATP was not if the time-travel would work, but rather if the ATP could survive the supernova long enough to get the energy it needed. that's a lot harder to test and verify prior to the supernova
@@maple... That's actually not that big of a deal. If the supernova-proof casing wasn't thick enough for the ATP to finish the transmission, there would still be *some* information being sent through, however incomplete. The supernova takes some time to reach the Ash Twin after all. The ATP would then receive it in the past and trigger the fail condition, letting everyone know through the memory statues. The actual weakest link in the ATP would be the advanced warp core itself. But given how Clary gets very annoyed with Poke's perfectionism and has to reassure Yarrow despite and Poke's pleading to work on the AWC more, I think it's safe to say they had that part handled.
incredible analysis of the game unlike any other videos i've seen covering it (which are many)! so many fresh ideas and perspectives on a game i felt like i had squeezed every bit of interpretation out of already, and just really mentally stimulating conversation and wording. thank you for your immense effort in putting this together for us to enjoy!!!
Alright man I finally watched this all over again. You guys both really deserve the success from this video and all the work put in. The analysis and essay of this game you have here is almost too much for the mind in a good way. It is a lot to take in similar to the game but I feel by the end I learned a lot about not only the game but the way both of you view life and the world around you. I can't wait for what's to come.
Thank you for returning! These vids aren't complete without your words of encouragement alongside. I appreciate you taking the time-I know this one is a super long time-commitment. The whole time we made this one it felt like a risk: something that could appeal to no one. Every second we veered off into non-game-related material felt like immediate loss of viewership. I was not confident in publishing this. But it's nice to be surprised that people are interested in what we have to say. It's nice to get it out there in spite of whatever doubts linger in the background. I have to record a couple more hours of audio today for our next vid. I'm super nervous. This Omori vid we're doing, it's weird, frankly. I don't know if anyone will care. But your comment is another notch of support along that ever-receding wave of creative output, and I thank you for returning again and again to keep us going. You're a great boost, so thank you.
@@ToGamesItMayConcern You're Welcome I feel at this point your videos and my comments are linked in an odd way 😅. It felt so weird when I noticed I hadn't commented and then evidently didn't finish the video. It felt off l. But I'm glad I can encourage you the same way you encourage me. I told you this with when you were working on this video but you might be surprised by the fan base and following of Omori similar to this. When you go and make this in depth essays on games that seem quite obscure they have these tight knit cult followings that literally scour the web for anything related to the games. So just keep a positive outlook no matter how odd it may seem. You have an even bigger following than you did before so that is even more people who want specifically that.
You've been completely right: this vid has introduced us to a whole community of Outer Wilds' players who love diving deep into this digital planetary system and all the lore that hides within it. It's been fascinating. We can only hope to do justice to Omori for that community once they arrive. It'll be a whole 'nother humbling experience. After Omori we might do a couple shorter vids, just to give us time to breathe a little, haha.
1:04:00 actually this isn't true, you can see for yourself by jumping into the black hole at the core of the Ash Twin Project, and then visiting the Ash Twin Project again right away. Going back in time doesn't alter memories at all. It just happens to also mean you've now made an unbreakable promise to the universe to always go back in time at the end of every loop or else you will destroy the fabric of spacetime, so sending information back in time is a way around that problem.
Hmm, but isn't sending memories back the purpose of linking with the statues? That's also why Gabbro can recall the loops. And all those not linked to a statue, their particles reverse with everything else and thus they don't have memories of the prior loop. We discuss the ending you mention briefly later in the video. My understanding is that that ending relies on your character continuing to jump into the black hole, thus the memories retain for that character because they are continuing onto the next loop (through the black hole) rather than being looped like everything else. And each time you continue going through the black hole you're allowing that continuation.
@@ToGamesItMayConcern Oh, the loop doesn't reverse anything, the uppermost writing within the Statue Island talks about how it just creates a new future timeline and the old one is discarded as if it never happened. Making the entire universe go backward for the loop sounds like it'd require significantly more energy than a single supernova. At the start of each loop the statue/mask sends memories to your character of a future that was erased and will never come to pass, unless you do exactly the same things as before. Also I went to bed after that comment as it was late for me, I plan to finish watching the video today :)
I really appreciate you explaining and correcting any misunderstanding on our part. That's the joy of this game: it is one of significant complexity and varying interpretation and sparks communication. Thanks for continuing that process.
@@LB_ That writing doesn't say anything like that at all. It's a philosophical question about the difference between sending just memories vs consciousness back in time. But other than that, yeah, it's not about reversing entropy, the black and white holes are like wormholes that also transport you across time. What goes in is exactly the same thing as what comes out, it just comes out at an earlier time.
Will have to postpone watching this one until I have finished the game by myself, but watch it I absolutely shall since even the few first minutes are as densely thoughtful as I came to expect from you guys!
That's no problem at all! I greatly appreciate you stopping by. Life is so busy, I hope you're able to enjoy Outer Wilds all the way through at some point: the game is masterful in many ways (hence the length of our analysis).
Some of the writings you can find tell more about how the wider Nomai culture functions. The Nomai are galactic explorers by nature. Ships routinely go off on their own adventures, meeting up every ten years to exchange stories about what they have found. The Nomai in the Hearthian solar system are not unusual by their cultures standards. My speculation about why they did not tell the others where they were going is they wanted the prestige of coming back with a great discovery.
Escall already explains why he made the decision to focus on warping as quickly as possible! If they only began receiving the signal now from something that's long been present, there's no guarantee that the signal would continue to be emitted.
I cannot fathom how this has so few views and the channel under a thousand subs. This really is a high quality video and possibly one of the best things I've seen this year. Keep it up. If I got this in my reccomended so will many others and this will blow up!
This was quite the watch, but man was it engaging to listen to. Outer Wilds was one of those games that didn't work for me, I tried multiple times to get into it but found myself empty after 3 or 4 hours in. I've liked hearing what others have to say on it though, and there was definitely a lot of interesting readings and ideas you both presented :)
Hey, thanks for taking the time to watch! There is a flatness, tonally, to Outer Wilds that's hard to get past-It was for me, the first couple times I tried. And the suggestive experimentation of player-choice isn't quite there in execution. It took the claustrophobic time-limited memory-run of Ash/Ember Twin to help me grasp the mechanics and then the time dilation struggles of the past inhabitants to motivate my further curiosity. Only then did the emotional side of the journey begin; prior to that point it was all intellectual toying. It's great to hear that in spite of your distance from the game itself you manage to embrace what others have to say about the experience. The ideas are paramount, and maybe that's enough.
Awesome video! One of my favorite games of all time. Really enjoyed your detailed discussion and interpretations. Thanks for the quality content! Have you guys played SOMA? Based on what you did here, I know i'd really enjoy hearing you do a deep dive discussion on that one someday. And if you haven't played it, a warning, just like OW, the less you know going in the better.
Great recommendation! We played a tiny bit of it when it first came out (probably literally 20 minutes) but got distracted by other releases. Hearing there's more to it than meets the eye, that certainly grabs attention. We may return someday and see what we have to say.
"By the time you reach any truth that matters, you will have completely destroyed the material conditions that allowed that truth to even exist.." The Stranger's inhabitants be like 👀💦💦
I have yet to finish the whole video, but I'm loving it so far and wish to say that 1) this game played a major role in bringing me out of science denial and 2) there absolutely needs to be a part two of this for the Echoes of the Eye DLC (assuming it's not talked about in the remaining portion of the video).
Your point 1 is fascinating. Was it the vastness and/or interconnectedness of everything, or something else? We may cover the DLC in a separate video, but we're going to focus on some other topics first. We've spent a while solely thinking about Outer Wilds. Would be nice to narrow our analysis on some other games for a bit.
@@ToGamesItMayConcern It's hard to say what exactly did it, especially two years later, but the net result was that the interest I had in astronomy as a kid was reawoken and I was once again curious about the universe. I became so inquisitive, in fact, that I decided to watch PBS crash course episodes on biology and evolution with the goal of at least learning how others understood natural selection (having myself grown up a religious fundamentalist). What I wasn't planning on was it actually making a fair bit of sense. About a week later, NASA, which I was only following on social media after my renewed interest in space exploration, posted an article about the observed supernova explosion SN 2018gv, 70 million light-years away. For the first time I thought about what that meant, about just how long ago that event must have happened for the light to only reach us in recent years. In that instant everything came together and just clicked. From there I learned more about the scientific system itself and have grown to truly appreciate it. Coming back to what it was about Outer Wilds, though, I do have a few guesses. It could've simply been the hunger for discovery it inspired in me carrying over into real life. It could've been the beauty of seing one lineage evolve in the footsteps of another, canceling out some of the negative emotions and "threat detectors" associated with that topic. Or it could've been that the Nomai's story of discovery made me interested enough in the discoveries real scientists were making in our own world and time. Again, it's difficult to say with any amount of certainty, and it wasn't the first or only factor in my mind changing, but there was just _something_ about this game that made me way more curious and way more open to at least trying to understand what scientists had to say. Oh, for sure! Do take your time. I just wanted to make sure y'all knew that, well.. there's more to explore here ;;) And, speaking of such, you've earned yourselves a new subscriber. After stumbling across this video, I look forward to exploring some other videos in your catalog and seeing what you produce next. Quality work, and I greatly enjoy the dialogue format.
Wow, that's a phenomenal string of events. I'm glad you found knowledge and purpose in each of these moments and that the game cemented for you a curiosity that was always brewing. That's something hard to articulate about these long, explorative games: they grant a taste of learning and the merits therein, the ways learning as a process can be its own reward apart from merely finding a final answer. Thank you so much for sharing, and I appreciate you wanting to view our other videos. I hope they resonate with you and inspire further thinking.
@@ToGamesItMayConcern Well said, and I appreciate your so attentive listening to my more personal connections with the game. Thank you. I'm sure they will!
I finally finished watching this today! 1:56:17 I really agree, beautiful way of seeing things 2:08:38 ooh, I like that story too, interesting comparison! Awesome work on this video, lots of really great discussions and comparisons, thank you for it all. Do you plan to tackle Echoes of the Eye in a separate video?
Fantastic! Thank you so much for watching! High five! 🖐 We originally hoped to cover the DLC as well, but then covering the original game took so long that we decided to split it. We both still have to finish the DLC-it's wonderful so far-but we're going to make a couple vids on different topics first, then likely return to the Outer Wilds universe for one final essay. I hope you don't mind waiting a bit! The vids in-between should be worthwhile in their own distinctive ways.
I have just reached 58:30 and I will be taking a break from this video for a bit, but so far you views have been quite fascinating to listen to. It always amazes me how so many people have such profound discoveries about themselves and the world with this game, and yet all of them have different discoveries.
Great video! Love this game and all content I can find about it. I truly think this game is one of the greatest ever made and that any one can play it and enjoy it. There's nearly no barrier to entry and no matter where you go on your first trip you will read something that piques your interest and you will be off. It's entirely up to you what you make of it until the very end.
Best game eve. I revisit the game about every week or 2 and always listen to the soundtrack. It's jsut such a masterpiece ein so many ways. It's perfect. Sound effects soundtrack story gameplay environment graphics community theme evrythign is jsut so great about this game
I love how you told me that I'm smarter then someone who can make a black hole for fun.. and also, the eye only revealing its self only after the universe ends. what a twist.
Really enjoyed the video and your varying interpretations of the themes of this wonderful game. I especially liked the discussion on the "Knowledge" theme of the game on two differing axis. I never had elaborated too upon the religious axis of this theme myself, but now appreciate it quite a bit for showcasing a really important aspect of civilizations. Also, it was nice to know about Asimov's story you mentioned which share similar themes with this game. Kudos to both of you (and any other people involved) 👍👍👍👍 Btw, any plans on a follow up video, discussing the story of Elks in the Echoes of the Eye? I think the DLC adds a lot of extra context and additional themes of its own.
Thank you for taking the time to watch the whole thing! High five! 🖐That is hugely appreciated (I know it's a massive time commitment). One of us started the DLC, and we'll likely do a video on it but it'll be after a couple other vids we have planned. Right now we're a bit tired of thinking solely about Outer Wilds. The DLC seems great so far, though. In fact, I kind of prefer the density of its design. It feels so far like a culmination of the lessons learned in making the main game. A video on it will come out, probably, some day. :)
I don't think the nomai released the ghost matter. The interloper was put under increased pressure and decreased containment by coming close to the sun. If they had not sought the knowledge they would have died, some things are inevitable.
i unfortunately need to still finish this game but i promise once i do I will watch this. i'll probably watch it twice. :') congrats on getting this huge project finished!
Funny you should mention "The final question", the name of the short tune that plays during the big bang in the ending sequence of Outer Wilds is called "Let there be light".
9:35 One of the strengths of the Outer Wilds narrative is how **unlike** the hero's journey it is, I think. There's nothing that fits atonement, for example. And the returning and mentorship only fit awkwardly. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero%27s_journey
Cool breakdown of the game and story. I definitly had some different interpretations of parts so it was fun hearing how things came across to others. I loved the experience so much I never realy went back after completing it and the DLC. Think I might go back again and re-read the Noami notes now that I have a complete understanding of what happened and why. One thing I wasn't sure if it was ever answered is why the Sun Station failed, I recall them just being like "Wow, it didn't work...we'll find another way". I can't believe that someone just miscalculated the math, so that's one lingering mystery in the game for me.
It's left unexplained what the actual process of trying to induce a supernova was as well. I don't think it was a simple miscalculation if they had to go back to square one; something must be inherently wrong with their models for stars. Even in 'current' times, the modern day Nomai were caught off guard by stars becoming unstable, with one clan barely making it out of a triple supernova. They weren't able to predict it in advance even after it being known that the universe was dying. It seems to allude at a hidden variable involved with the stability of stars, that isn't obvious, at least to the Nomai. Very mysterious.
awesome video! i love to see such a profound essay about this game. you made a lot less mistakes about the game's lore than most video essays, and that's a genuine compliment. there's a lot of tiny stuff to potentially get wrong, and i only notice mistakes because i'm absolutely obsessed with outer wilds in every way. for example, "these nomai discover [the interloper], and in so doing actually release it" is incorrect, they only observed it and its approaching the sun is what caused the explosion, but that's the only big thing you got wrong (it could change the theme of the whole game lol) sorry i know its not fun to read about things you got wrong, i'm not big brain enough to actually expand upon and converse about things you said in the video, but if it's any consolation i only nitpick like this about things i really like!! it's a good video and i thank you for these 2 hours of my life well spent
Hey, thank you so much for the compliments and the correction! 🖐 I appreciate that you valued our work enough to let us know. Someone else left a comment also informing us about the Interloper mistake. We tried to be careful, but with so much to track, that's one of those details that slipped through. As we said at the end of the vid, one of the great things about the game is the conversations it inspires. Thanks for adding to that conversation!
Sure, and I'll include the times each song starts. This will also be added to my pinned comment. (00:01:55) Sonora - Quincas Moreira (00:00:59) Waiting - Andrew Langdon (00:04:06) As You Prevent Do - pATCHES (00:06:14) Dream Escape - The Tides (00:08:59) Pure Potentiality - Benjamin Martins (00:14:12) The Empty Moons of Jupiter - DivKid (00:20:21) Dreaming in 432Hz - Unicorn Heads (00:25:37) Tratak - Jesse Gallagher (00:31:24) Whispering Stream - E's Jammy Jams (00:34:29) When the Ash Settles - The Westerlies (00:40:18) Sonora - Quincas Moreira (00:44:04) Beijaflor - Quincas Moreira (00:50:07) A Whisper - ann annie (00:58:37) Drifting at 432 Hz - Unicorn Heads (01:00:07) Beijaflor - Quincas Moreira (01:03:29) Fall Colors - ann annie (01:06:41) Gently, Onwards - ELPHNT (01:10:02) Lost Love Song - Sir Cubworth (01:14:44) Lament Of The Ancients - Asher Fulero (01:18:19) Melting Sands - ELPHNT (01:21:30) Underwater Exploration - Godmode (01:24:33) Waiting - Andrew Langdon (01:36:44) At the Precipice of a Dying Light - Dan Bodan (01:39:28) The Empty Moons of Jupiter - DivKid (01:42:29) As You Prevent Do - pATCHES (01:45:12) Beijaflor - Quincas Moreira (01:48:05) Gently, Onwards - ELPHNT (01:51:28) Beijaflor - Quincas Moreira (01:54:31) Dream Escape - The Tides (01:57:43) Lament Of The Ancients - Asher Fulero (01:59:47) Gently, Onwards - ELPHNT. (02:06:29) Lucid Haze - Amulets (02:09:23) Lament Of The Ancients - Asher Fulero
This is a fantastic video. I love this game. I love this world. I love your take. But if I hear another person say ‘timber herth’ I will disintegrate xD
I'll always watch a thoughtful/lengthy video on Outer Wilds (even if it does take a couple of days) because it's really one of the best games I've ever played. Hopefully it inspires similar efforts. Anyways, great video. Very thorough. Glad I watched, and thank you.
also: i love your thoughts and interpretations of this game. i played it for the first time last year, and i haven't been able to take it off my head since. I'm always eager to find more about it. Do you guys plan on talking about the DLC as well eventually? it's such a big contrast with how the nomai view things, it'd be a great conversation to listen to :)
Thank you! Right now, we're thinking of focusing on a few other vids first-a second Omori vid and some broader topics-as we've been devoted to Outer Wild for at least a month-and-a-half now. But I did start the DLC, and it's so far fantastic. We'll probably cover it someday! We just need a tiny break, haha.
@@ToGamesItMayConcern That's fair! And also neat to see what's coming next in the channel 👀 I just found it yesterday by chance (thanks for the rec, youtube!) and I'm excited to watch the other videos now!!
Sorry about your cat :/ I love how the game really puts you into the mindset of being a xenoarcheologist and upon a second or maybe even third playthrough some people are trying to find out so much more about than the game requires you to, simply because the developers have put in the effort of going beyond just the necessary puzzles and pieces of information. If you want, you can completely reconstruct the Nomai's travels. Who was on Escall's vessel and ended up in which escape pod, who was responsible for which discovery and step in the Ash Twin Project, who was whose relative or spouse, and even sometimes whose remains you just came across and what they have done before ending up there. That also opens up some pseudo-scientific discussions in RUclips comment sections without any real value so be prepared as I have a go: I disagree that the Nomai's single-mindedness about the eye is such a huge gamble. It has to be something very significant since the signal is older than the universe itself. That fact alone is the entire reason for the Nomai's fascination, and it seems very understandable to me. Also, the eye has never lost its practical value to the Nomai to become only a religious symbol. They were still trying to figure out how to get to it and to see what would happen if a conscious observer would observe the most quantum thing they ever knew existed. The pilgrimage to the Quantum Moon may have evolved into something more symbolic, but that was only because it was the closest they were able to travel to the eye, without ever seeing it. Therefore they also could not have "stared" at the eye from the moon, otherwise it would have collapsed as it does at the end of the game. I believe the travel to the moon was not all symbolic though but rather an initiation for adulthood to prepare the Nomai for when one of them would eventually reach the eye itself, and make them familiar with the eye's surface and attributes. There is a sense of religion, as the Eye Shrines indicate, but I don't think the Nomai were split into a scientific and a religious group. They were both, scientifically interested and aware that it may be something greater than themselves.
Haha, yeah, it's tough out here! So many channels to choose from! Thanks for checking us out! We'll keep delivering the best we can as often as we can.
a wonderful video essay! but i feel it a missed opportunity that you didn't discuss the dlc (which i find odd since a good bit of the footage here is clearly from after its release), and the similarities you have as the player hearthian with the characters there and in the main game *despite* your differences with them. (stop reading here if you haven't played the dlc) there are some very fundamental differences between all the different species, for example; hearthians lack the concept of gender (at least as we usually understand it), whilst the nomai seem to have an arrangement similar to us. we don't know much about the owlk's culture, as we never get to read any of their text, and as such we can't even assume they're anything like the hearthians or the nomai. even despite all being fairly humanoid, not a single species shares more than a trait or two, none of them even have the same number of eyes! the cultures of all three, even ignoring the fundamental differences and unknowns, are all very unique from eachother, and in spite of these differences, they're all united in some sense by their senses of curiousity and creativity, feelings of mourning and fear, of experiences of failure and loss, and of course, music.
perhaps the eye wanted to be found, it just didnt want to be found when it was by the nomai or the owlks. maybe it only wanted to be found as late as possible.
That would imply that the Eye is able to subtly influence what happens, seeing as the sequence of events that led to us being the one who got to the Eye naturally flows and seems to involve a bit of luck.
Well this is certianly cool. Full of takes don't agree with and pretty sure many sections are factually incorrect but also very cool and interesting watching you all go through your thought processes.
Yeah, sorry about that. We expected this video to take far less time than it did. We initially recorded over four hours of audio, and that led to us needing to cut a lot to get the video out in a reasonable time. We will likely cover the DLC; for now, though, we're going to focus on a few other topics and games, just to give us a break from only thinking about Outer Wilds (it's been non-stop for about a month-and-a-half).
Yes, it's been steadily building! You've been a part of that: you left such a fantastic early comment on this vid, and it wouldn't surprise me if that helped push people to watch the whole thing. So thank you so much for that!
Yes, we very likely will! We're currently prepping a three-hour vid on Omori (taking an especially long time since the audio was originally over eight hours long). And then we have a few other ideas. We both want to cover the DLC, but we need to make sure we have something unique and worthwhile to say. Takes time, but thanks for asking!
I've just started watching the video and the audio is weird for me, it's like your talking is multiplied by 2 and your second voice is in lofi in the background. That's weird, never heard anything like that
Yeah, this occurs a couple of times during the beginning section of the video. We tried removing it as much as we could but some of it remains. Over time, the audio becomes perfect. We hope you check out the rest of the video when you can, though we understand that that initial echo can be distracting. Sorry about that.
That's honestly great! A few commenters have pointed out some mistakes we made-e.g. Interloper rupturing due to heat not due to Nomai interaction, and much else-and that's alright with us. That's part of the point of putting our views out there. Much of our interpretations are jumping-off-points for broader ideas-these are not narrowly defined 'truths' about the work. We fully embrace alternative ways of reading the game. We purposefully siloed ourselves away from viewing or reading the interpretations of others, and that has led to the aforementioned mistakes, but I hope it's also led to those "interesting and unique takes" and ultimately to fresh ways of thinking about this incredible game.
@@ToGamesItMayConcern Oh absolutely. This was simultaneously one of the most engaging and frustrating pieces of content I've seen on the game haha! Its a unique approach and you should definitely keep it up. Perhaps checking some of your language in the way you express opinions might help it be more enjoyable for me personally. Adding more uncertainty into your statements would make it more clear that you are ruminating on these ideas rather than expressing them as "truths." Example: at one point it was expressed that the Nomai as a species are only dead in this system and definitely live on elsewhere, while there is nothing in the game that indicates whether that is assuredly true or not. To your credit, a while later it was indicated that this may not be the case; that for all we know they are totally extinct, but that we simply don't know. But the first statement was made with such conviction, and enough time was between the first and the second, that the experience was a little like reading the "retractions" section of a news article a week after telling all your friends about the original headline.
I actually think Outer Wilds could make for a great movie. A lone space traveller, who spends his first dozen loops trying to explain everything to his fellow villagers. But there is nothing they can do to help in the small amount of time that is left. So eventually the traveller realizes that trying to get help from home is hopeless, and he also hates the pain he inflicts upon them, again and again, when he explains that they are going to die. So he takes it upon himself to travel the solar system, and learn everything about the Nomai to try to prevent the supernova. Years and years and years worth of loops pass. Some loops he spends just starring hopelessly at the sky. Eventually coming to Chert's realisation, that not only our sun is dying, too many of them are dying. Could the mystery of the Nomai possibly lead to anything that could solve this situation? The absolute terror of removing, and carrying the Ash Twin core to the mothership, after living through thousands and thousands of loops without consequence. Eventually he comes to the same realization that us, the players came to when we played the game. Death is inevitable in Outer Wilds, we cannot save the universe, but we can learn what we can, and we can help collapse the innumerable possibilities that lay before us. Outer Wilds is the greatest time loop story ever told. The plot is simply brilliant.
If you watch the whole video we’ll give you a digital high five. _Guaranteed!*_
About spoilers: minor spoilers (on just the Hourglass Twins) begin at 14:05; major spoilers (for rest of the game) begin at 31:15. We warn you at those points.
There are slight, intermittent audio issues early in the video. These disappear.
Thank you for watching! You can buy us coffee here: ko-fi.com/togamesitmayconcern
_*Leave a comment letting us know. High five is an emoji._
Track list with start times:
(00:01:55) Sonora - Quincas Moreira
(00:00:59) Waiting - Andrew Langdon
(00:04:06) As You Prevent Do - pATCHES
(00:06:14) Dream Escape - The Tides
(00:08:59) Pure Potentiality - Benjamin Martins
(00:14:12) The Empty Moons of Jupiter - DivKid
(00:20:21) Dreaming in 432Hz - Unicorn Heads
(00:25:37) Tratak - Jesse Gallagher
(00:31:24) Whispering Stream - E's Jammy Jams
(00:34:29) When the Ash Settles - The Westerlies
(00:40:18) Sonora - Quincas Moreira
(00:44:04) Beijaflor - Quincas Moreira
(00:50:07) A Whisper - ann annie
(00:58:37) Drifting at 432 Hz - Unicorn Heads
(01:00:07) Beijaflor - Quincas Moreira
(01:03:29) Fall Colors - ann annie
(01:06:41) Gently, Onwards - ELPHNT
(01:10:02) Lost Love Song - Sir Cubworth
(01:14:44) Lament Of The Ancients - Asher Fulero
(01:18:19) Melting Sands - ELPHNT
(01:21:30) Underwater Exploration - Godmode
(01:24:33) Waiting - Andrew Langdon
(01:36:44) At the Precipice of a Dying Light - Dan Bodan
(01:39:28) The Empty Moons of Jupiter - DivKid
(01:42:29) As You Prevent Do - pATCHES
(01:45:12) Beijaflor - Quincas Moreira
(01:48:05) Gently, Onwards - ELPHNT
(01:51:28) Beijaflor - Quincas Moreira
(01:54:31) Dream Escape - The Tides
(01:57:43) Lament Of The Ancients - Asher Fulero
(01:59:47) Gently, Onwards - ELPHNT.
(02:06:29) Lucid Haze - Amulets
(02:09:23) Lament Of The Ancients - Asher Fulero
Im on that period of the year when i just consume content about this game trying to fill the void it left on my heart. Thank you for your 2-hours contribution Sr.
Thank you so much for taking the time to hear our thoughts! I hope we offer you some fresh ways to look at things.
It does suck that you can only experience this game once, but at least you can sort of get that feeling again vicariously through other people haha
Wow, this channel is something special! The integration of two different perspectives is unique (and especially valuable for this game) and you two bounce off each other's ideas so fluidly I can tell you've essentially been doing it your whole lives. Definitely going to keep up with what yall do going forward!
Thank you! After all the years talking between ourselves we're glad there are those like you who find our back-and-forth musings valuable.
The ending of Outer Wilds is one of the most phenomenal bits of storytelling and gameplay I've ever experienced, and I have a lot of thoughts about it that I love to talk about.
First is the irony of it. A large part of the game is searching for a solution to the supernova. How can you stop the sun from exploding? Yet in the end, you're powerless to stop a supernova. All you can do is create a new universe. It should feel more empowering, yet the irony drives in your own powerlessness.
And second is the themes of the Eye itself. I do love how it's open to interpretation. But I think that the implication is that the Eye is a way for the universe to evolve. I think that if the Eye is not observed, it just tries the same thing again but this time hopefully someone observes it. But the only people who would see the Eye's signal and follow it are the curious. Those who look at the universe, not with fear, but with wonder. And their experiences do affect what happens in the Eye, and how the new universe looks. If you don't meet Solanum, you don't end up seeing the little bug aliens. Your experiences and knowledge affect what the Eye produces. Thus, I believe that the Eye is a way for the universe to evolve. Each time it produces a new universe, that universe is based on the wonder and curiosity of the Observer. As a result, each successive universe is even more wonderful, even more curious. It's beautiful.
We are the universe experiencing and exploring itself. And this means that the universe exists for the sake of curiosity and exploration.
Wow, beautifully articulated and inspired and insightful comment! I had no idea about the link between meeting Solanum and witnessing the bugs after the credits-really, really nice of you to bring that to our attention. Thank you very much! 🖐
I think the ending is less about the player character realizing the ultimate futility of their situation and "deciding" to "creating a new universe", and more about the player character finally realizing that they have no control over the end of their universe, and having a melancholy moment of reflection with the people and places they've come to learn about and love, as they see it all be erased. I see the post credits scene as being more of a message to the player themselves than to the in game, player character. The player character had their moment of bittersweet reunion with their fellow explorers, before their experience ends, and the end screen just shows that somewhere, some time else there are still planets to be explored and lives to be experienced.
The ending scene is changed even more if you complete the DLC. There's also a nice little bit where if you fire the little scout into the eye of the universe or not makes a small change.
But yes, the 13 million years later is only seen by the player, as the hatchling dies one final time by the big bang that creates the next universe. That's their reward in a sense, they get to see the big bang with their own eyes.
You, the observer, become essentially God. The first being of the new universe and the last of the old. You create the new universe how your mind wants to. The irony being you never get to see what you've made.
I'd say a front row seat to the big bang is a prize enough.
Seeing how I've already played the game and can't really re-experience the magic of discovery this game provides, I appreciated walking through your thoughts on how you experienced each of these moments. I miss this game, and all I can do is watch it through other eyes now.
One nitpick 1:21:07 - the Nomai didn't cause the Interloper to explode, heat from the sun caused the pressurized core to rupture and release all the ghost matter, killing everyone in the system instantly. Ghost matter doesn't penetrate underwater which is why proto-Hearthians survived the mass extinction.
Yes, you're completely right about that. We do eventually bring up the survival of the Hearthians being contingent on the ghost matter's inability to enter water, but we hadn't realized at the time the key insight about the reason for the Interloper's explosion. That said, much of the discussion that follows about luck still applies. We hope you find it interesting.
2 hours talking about Outer Wilds, I love it
I'd love to see a follow-up from this channel after having played the Echoes of the Eye DLC. I feel like the developers were self aware of some points you brought up around sacrificing rational thought for pursuing an unknown entity, among many other things. The DLC added to this story and world in a way I'd never imagined. It takes good sci-fi and transcends it to the greatest sci-fi of all time in my opinion.
Because of how long this video took to create, we're going to focus on some other topics and games to give ourselves a breather, and then we might return to Echoes of the Eye. I started the DLC, and I so far already find it incredible. So I am eager to return. But we also have to make sure we have something of worth to say, and that takes some time. Thank you, though, for being curious and caring about our thoughts.
RE: the 14.3 billion years later thing...
I find it interesting that if You look at how both of the Nomai settlements ended up being on the interior of their planets, that the new Planets of this Universe all seem to be shells which are habitable on the inner surface;
a part of what had been observed before shaping what came after
One of the best gaming documentaries I've ever watched. This is a work of art, about a unique piece of history. I loved every moment as a fan of Outer Wilds, and as a creator, I've met a new standard in work quality.
I'm off to play Outer Wilds again.
You're so kind, man. Thank you very much! Let me know when you make an epic video game doc and I'll be there!
Outer wilds is not really the kind of game you can play again
@@technoboop1890 If you mean recreate what was felt in the first playthrough, that's true, but with the high skill level for movement, mods and just the general ease of loading up the game to check out something again means there are still reason to go back now and then.
@@knowledgeacquirer2931 Funny System mod absolutely broke me somehow
This commentary on Outer Wilds was phenomenal. It didn't occur to me to think of the Nomai and having 2 separate takes on the Eye, one religious and one more scientific, or that their drive to discover it boarded on obsessive. You both had some fantastic insights. Seeing that this channel has less than 1,000 subscribers is criminal, but it makes me super happy to have found this well thought out video! Super high quality. The respect you've given this game is well deserved.
Thank you so much! And high five for watching! 🖐
Your words are much appreciated. We'll continue releasing the best thoughts we have, and hopefully over time those words will reach more and more eager ears. But we're happy to have the small audience we have and to have now received your nice words alongside them.
this is such a high quality video i didn't even realize it only had 9k views. this entire video was very enlightening in each section and it was really enjoyable. i never thought about the different parts of the society, just the people that you see popup all the time. also, if you ever get time, the dlc is also very good and kinda explains some parts of the game further relating to the eye (and it adds a new thing to the ending once you've completed the dlc). and i think the species added in the dlc would be interesting to discuss. don't want to say much out of fear of spoiling it though.
I know a spoiler warning is given in the pinned comment and in the video, but if you're watching this and haven't played the game, stop watching and go play it if you can. Even if you don't mind spoilers, you will have a much better experience with the game if you go in *COMPLETELY* blind. This is a great video talking about this absolute masterpiece of a game, and you should come back after playing, but don't ruin this incredible experience for yourself.
Man I would love to get these as a Spotify podcast, would be a joy to listen to your guys discussions while out & about
If we were to put these out as podcasts someday, would you prefer we kept the music in or just have our voices?
@@ToGamesItMayConcern personally, I think no music, that way we can hear what you guys are saying nice and clearly. I'll be checking for that future podcast option if it comes about!
6:27 Outer Wilds forcing you to hold to jump (and not just press to jump) at the very start of the game sets such a great tone for how the game will differ from most. Like a Metroid game that blocks your path right, and forces you to go left to unblock it.
Videos I watch at 2 am
Haha, it's a vibe.
Me too!
This is such a well communicated and well analized observation of an already beautiful experience.
Thank you for deepening my love for this game
This is a really good and detailed essay on the game.
It's pretty meta to think about the game "Outer Wilds" as something like the Eye which people keep wanting to pursue.
The whole OW community is alwyas trying to pursue getting all the knowledge and experience out of the game.
Some people might pursue re-living outer wilds by watching or helping others play, Some people write really good essays or documentaries on the game, Some people create great art based on the game, Some people just love to discuss endlessly about tiny little details in the game.
I love how you end the essay with the thought: The game started a journey for curiosity but didn't end it.
That makes this game so good, there's so much room for more discovery and this game really leaves you wanting to discover more. And in what way or what order you discover more is completely open for interpretation.
Thanks a lot again both for the new views you've given me on my journey for curiosity :)
Thank you for this wonderful comment! You sum-up our final thoughts beautifully.
Always grand to see a grand game being given a grand overview!
FYI it became my Game of the Decade, purely on the back of it being creative enough to create a mini solar system, but also focused enough to bring such a vast scale and make it all incredibly detailed.
However, this was even before I engaged on all the content created from others playing it. Meaning that it extends out far more than as just a game, but a reflection of the Humanity's inner most willingness to discover the truth of this universe!
Man this was such a sick video essay hope you guys cover echoes of the eye I think it can offer even more interesting discussions on this game.
A 2 hours video about Outer wilds ? Don't mind if I do
I can't actually play Outer Wilds - the tiny planets give me intense anxiety. But I love content *about* the game, so I really appreciate this one.
You know, that's alright and completely understandable: the game pushes fear and phobia to its limits. Thank you, either way, for choosing to hear our thoughts. You can play the game vicariously through ours and others' experiences.
What?! You can solve the ATProject warp with the scout like that?! Just a few days ago I saw Symbalily solve it by blocking the tornado above with the ship parked there (which I also didnt know was possible). I solved it by hiding under the bridge and then stepping into the platform mid-tornado as I'm pushing down with the jetpack. My other friend did the same but with that alcove you were standing in.
It just shows how many approaches there are to some of these.
Incredible work, especially from such a small channel, I’m so excited to see what stuff you have in store. This is really amazing. Outer Wilds is one of those games I can never get tired of hearing people talk about. Thank you for giving me some really great content on it.
Thank you so much! 🖐
Finally, more Outer wilds content for me to consume. fantastic video
love the analysis here. one issue though is that the nomai didn't cause the ghost matter to rupture, that happened because of proximity to the sun, and would have done so without their involvement
You're totally right. A few have pointed this out. Thank you for appreciating the overall analysis in spite of that mistake.
1:15:28 That idea and your whole story of dealing with control in regards to your grief - condolences for your loss; is very poignant. That's really a precise wording I haven't been able to articulate myself.
Yes, I had to be honest about why that aspect of the story resonates with me so much. I'm glad it resonated with you too.
56:33 - I'm still not sure I agree with the interpretation that the Eye Shrines and Detectors\Probes represent different sects of Nomai, but I do dispute the final assertion that something discovered from the Quantum Moon path is necessary for completing the game. Of the four Big Mysteries (ATP, Vessel, Orbital Probe Cannon, and Quantum Moon), the first three are necessary - you can't accidentally complete the game without them. Unless I'm forgetting something critical, without the Quantum Moon, the final act of the game might be a little more confusing or frustrating (and Solanum won't be there), but you'd still be likely to finish, even if only by accident.
Also, the Nomai didn't release the ghost matter by discovering it. They just arrived right before the cataclysm. Similar to your own experiences in the game - you can only get to the Sun Station, or the Tower of Quantum Knowledge, or even the High Energy Lab, at a specific point in the loop. The Interloper had been discovered entering the system and they were able to explore its core because it was getting close enough to the sun for its icy surface to melt, which was the same trigger for its core to rupture and blanket the system in ghost matter. They happened to be in the system at the time of that calamity, the same way you happen to be alive at the end of the universe.
I found it interesting that you showed the High Energy Lab experiment clip several times, but never showed it in the high energy state. In case you missed it, the switch upstairs redirects energy from the Sunless City to the experiment chamber, allowing you to see very clearly the probe emerging from the white hole before it enters the black hole. (You can also break spacetime by recalling it in the short window after it emerges but before it enters, one of the more entertaining alternate endings to the game.)
I also think the idea of Escall's clan "abandoning home" isn't all that accurate either. They left where they were in a hurry without telling anyone where they were going, but it isn't clear where they even were when they started. The children's report about the 10-year Festival highlights that the Nomai are a nomadic race. Their Vessels are their homes. They're restless if they aren't traveling and discovering. The fact that they built settlements at all is the aberration, drawn as they were by the allure of the Eye.
We also DO know about the fate of the other Nomai, and they DO have a way of communicating. The communications board in the Vessel that you show as this is mentioned is receiving comparatively recent messages. It's been so long since Escall's clan warped into Dark Bramble that the tale has passed into legend, and they're starting to experience the death of the universe, forcing them to take shelter in "relatively stable" systems - which will inevitably suffer the same fate as ours.
Fun fact about the ATP warp - I believe you're supposed to just use the sandstream itself as the clue that the warp pad is active. When I played Outer Wilds, I used the Scout trick to know when to warp through, but in that version of the game that could actually break the return warp pad, trapping you inside the ATP.
Always interesting to see players undertaking the final trip by following the Escape Pod 3 distress signal rather than just using the computer to mark the Vessel.
One thing that you didn't lean into particularly hard in the commentary is what the player's effect is on the universe that comes after. That the characters at the end are not themselves, but your memories of them. Solanum alludes to this by saying "thank you for remembering me". Gabbro just says it outright, "I mean, not me, exactly, but close enough."
The 14.3 Billion Years Later graphic also changes subtly based on what you discover, highlighting that your memories are used to influence the next big bang.
Jumping into the smoke at the end is definitely collapsing the infinite possibilities represented by the Eye, but it seems to be necessary because the universe you inhabited was all but dead.
The Eye was suggested by the Nomai to be older than the universe itself, so I think it's reasonable to assume this was a recurring pattern.
To be clear: I held many misconceptions about the plot of the game even through the end of my original playthrough. One big one was my belief that the Interloper was triggering the supernova.
Despite my nitpicking, I really enjoyed your analysis. I really appreciated how you incorporated elements of historical theory into your presentation. I don't think I disagree with any of your philosophical observations, just some of the details about game world and plot.
My fundamental take home from Outer Wilds is that things come to an end, and there can be a comfort in accepting that, but endings are necessarily new beginnings and we can hope and strive to leave a positive influence for the future to build on.
I hope y'all follow the mystery from the Radio Tower on Timber Hearth and I'd love to hear your thoughts on what you find!
Also: Digital High Five, please!
Wow, thank you for the thorough feedback. We made some mistakes, and we appreciate those being pointed out. We're glad that you still found some worth in viewing our extensive analysis. Here is your well-deserved high five! 🖐
Thank you for giving such a detailed account of your thoughts and interpretations. It’s always such a lovely thing to hear how this game is viewed by everyone. Like most other people, this game had a profound impact on me, and I don’t think it’s hard to see why. Like many others (and having seen your response to it), I do recommend playing the DLC when you have time and energy to, but what I’m more interested in suggesting is that you engage with Andrew Prahlow’s extended soundtracks. You can find them just about anywhere, but the Outer Wilds Reprise as well as the last 6 tracks on the special edition of the OST are sort of extended meditations on the game in musical form and while they don’t greatly change anything, I think they are valuable additions to the sort of thematic core of the experience.
As a final note, as a musician, I love the interpretation that the sound the quantum objects make is either the sound of the last universe, or the combination of all the past universes. So as such, either the next universe’s eye signal is the Travelers theme, or it gets added to the signal. Either way, I think that is a beautiful sentiment
Oh, I'm very excited to hear the extended soundtrack! Thank you so much for bringing it to my attention!
This video was amazing. A beautiful and powerful analysis. I look forward to future videos and the future of this channel in general.
Thank you so much! 🖐
We'll continue creating the best work we can. :)
Thank you so much for this, you made me discover a bunch of these philosophers to expand my horizons, as well as given a better understanding, put into words why we all love this game so much. Didn't think I was getting through the 2 hours but just got sucked in like into a black hole.
Anyway, my original perception of the ending was-The song that the characters play represent conscience within the universe, and the different instruments each being varied opinions that these consciences take. They are what shape living beings into being able to discover and learn, to me, it is the essence of the universe. However, I believe you're pretty spot on with the "orb" being a choice you make, further insinuated by the flashing "possibilities" that appear on the orb as you look into it (something something quantum), and you making that choice acts as a way to add a touch of yourself into the next universe, to make it feel alive.
I’m so sorry about your cat, losing loved ones doesn’t get easier, no matter how big or small.
Your related discussion of how we feel regret over a perceived control of the past, made me feel a lot better about regret. We tread a path, climb a mountain, turn and look back, and see that there were easier paths we could have taken. We feel shame for not having chosen better, but we actually had no choice because we lacked the knowledge. We shouldn’t punish our current selves for knowing something now, because it cannot change our past.
Beautifully said. Thank you for writing this.
11:19 I disagree that you die, being that even when you fly far beyond the reaches of the supernova you are still sent back. I see it more as a recursion. Your only death is when you remove the warp core disabling the Ash Twin Project and your only life is the one in which you crack the code of the Eye. Perhaps I am wrong on this, but it felt really powerful that all these hours of memories flooding into a single person filled me with determination to see my venture through. Pedanticism aside, phenomenal video doing my favorite game justice. Hope we get another game that strikes such a chord with its gameplay like Outer Wilds did at some point in our lifetime.
Yes, that's a fair point. We should've worded that more carefully: in a hero's journey, the protagonist suffers a 'symbolic death,' a death of who they once were. The knowledge they gain changes who they now are and they can't return to that old self, thus the 'old self dies.' When the protagonist of Outer Wilds first 'dies' after interacting with the Nomai statue, they learn something so fundamental to their choices and actions and this information shifts the moment-to-moment meaning of their decisions to such a degree that they can't go back. This is a kind of death. But you're completely right, we shouldn't have called it a 'literal' one, because the conceit of this game is that death is not the permanent death we know. This goes to show the confusion in words: as context shifts, so too do words bend. Thank you for your comment!
genuinely one of the best video essays i've ever watched, and not even just about outer wilds (of which i consume way too many). the way you two brought in so many other ideas and specific quotes or philosophies to apply to the game was really interesting to follow along with and i think youve somehow talked about the game in a way that no one else has before. definitely am going to be coming back to this video for several rewatches, and i hope by that time its got the millions of views it deserves!!
Thank you so very much! 🖐
My girlfriend literally saw your comment and excitedly told me to see: your words have brought much happiness here.
An interesting thing I found when reading the Nomai's writings, is the translations the actual writings of the Nomai, or the writings of the nomai through the eyes of the Heartheans? So Take calling a damaged ship 'Mortally wounded' or asking 'is the ship unwell'. Do the Nomai talk about their ship as if it is a living being or is the Heartheans pension for having tree keepers and making their ships out of wood translating damaged ship as ship that is unwell. Or Broken ship as ship that is mortally wounded.
Really intriguing thought! Would be great to re-analyze the game with this potential translation error in mind.
I always interpreted it as, since Quantum objects take the physical characteristics of what is around them and the Eye itself had never previously been observed, when you enter it, there are infinite possibilities of what it might become, but your presence makes it lock onto one possibility (much like quantum objects lock in a location when being observed), which is something that is familiar to you - a forest like the one in your home - the alien purply pillars presenting instead in the way your brain makes them present. To someone else, they might have looked different.
Similarly, if the Eye is physically affected by an observer's mind, then when you remember your friends, the Eye creates them there. And when it does, new observers are made. Those observers, all expressing a wish through song, make the Eye materially set the conditions for a new big bang.
I like this interpretation. Thanks for sharing!
Only 5 minutes in and am loving it - I also want to say the thumbnail is beautiful!
This is such a great video, one of the things that your section on the danger of knowing reminded me of, is Faust by Goethe, with I assume either of you know, both because it is my assumption that you both have degrees in english, and because you guys seem to be pretty well acclimated with classic literature, atleast in my opinion. I feel like a lot of your videos take me back to my english classes, in the sense that you guys seem to talk about it from a more literary perspective than what I believe is common in most analysis. It is very cool to see how your academic background may impact how you talk about things, that is if my assumption is correct. I am curious what got you guys into writing/teaching english, and also if either of you published a thesis in any english or writing fields, and if so, what is was about.
Thank you! This is such a lovely comment!
Yes, you're completely right, we both went for English degrees. No published thesis to point to, but I work as an English teacher and both of us as book editors from time-to-time (the one writing now is the first voice you hear in the video).
We both, being brothers, grew up in a writerly household: our mother worked as a journalist and still works now sometimes as an editor; our father also worked as a journalist and is now a published author and speaker with many successful books-but we'd rather not reveal too many specifics. Bookshelves lined our home growing up and now that I'm older line where I'm living and sitting right this moment.
It's wonderful that you sense that bookish inclination in our words. That feels great to read-It's almost as if we've made a Faustian bargain for such a lifestyle! Thank you for joining us here and for your nice comment!
@@ToGamesItMayConcern I appreciate the response! That sort of environment would definitely prime you to have some sort of love of books, although it doesn't necessarily predetermine you to love literature, but I think it's very interesting your parents backgrounds. I am curious if either of you guys have played the persona series before. It's a JRPG, I believe you may find it interesting, as it delves into themes such as social connections, the meaning of death, the value of truth, justice, finding your true self, change, and the human psyche. These videos are great, I think that throughout these videos there definitely are parts that make me think of literary theory and literary criticsm, so it's very cool to see how your educational backgrounds influence how you analyze media. I recently watch your videos on games that shift reality and disco elysium, I certainly hope that y'all can find another game as great as that one, or one that leaves you feeling a similar way you did after completing it.
Games so rarely reach the register of Disco Elysium that we may return to that game for a deeper dive, one that truly offers that masterpiece the analysis it deserves.
We've both played Persona 5 Royal and half of Persona 4. We loved our time with them, but we weren't making videos then. The remake of Persona 3 is now on Game Pass and I downloaded it and tried it for consideration, but we've had so little time lately and have been slowly working through four-ish separate videos at once; at some point we actually need to finish at least one of them. Have you seen our 3-hour OMORI vid? We cover just about all the themes you listed and more. You might really get something out of it (though I know it's super lengthy). The tiny bit I've played of Persona 3 makes me think it could be a game we attend to carefully in the future. It seems to offer much to think about, just like the other Persona titles.
Did you go for an English degree or do you currently work in relation to literature? Either way, it's great that you seem to care for and notice the significant themes within the works you consume.
@@ToGamesItMayConcern I actually did watch the Omori video, multiple times in fact, and it was the video that introduced me to your channel. Although it certainly was a very long video, it was, and still is, a very interesting video, and I think you guys cover very interesting topics in that video. I certainly do think that, out of all of the persona games, Persona 3 is the most worthy of a video made about it. I have not gotten an english degree, I don't work in relation to literature, the most education I would have that may be considered as being literature-adjacent would be psychology, besides that my experience with literature has mainly been writing papers on video games for personal pleasure. Actually, due to your video on Omori, I am in the process of drafting a paper on the psychological aspects of the characters in Omori. I am certainly excited for when you guys talk about whatever it is you are going to talk about next. Although you have been busy, I certainly hope you have been busy with things that you enjoy!
Oh, we've talked before! You're the reason we put Night in the Woods back on our potential games list!-I had a sense your name looked familiar. Tough to keep track, but I appreciate your recommendations and thoughts. Now I'm thinking about Night in the Woods again. Hmm, could connect to some other things we've been thinking about...
I _love_ that you're contending with the psychology of the OMORI characters. These stories and the myriad social connections within them are fantastic opportunities to consider oneself in relation to others, and oneself in relation to one's own judgments of self. If you ever create something you're proud of and wish to share with us, please don't be shy! The fact that you're even _thinking_ about games in that way makes you extraordinary in this space of otherwise lighthearted and/or superficial criticism. Keep at it!
I'm only about five minutes in and I really appreciate how you guys call out our base assumptions and desires about how we experience games - like the world feeling real even when we look away, like its curated just for momentary display-and thoughts of this nature. bravo for being able to communicate these abstract, tip of your tongue but dont quite know whats happening or how to describe it kind of things that really help us know why we like what we like and why games feel how do they do over and again
Thank you! This is the struggle of game analysis: offering those tip-of-the-tongue observation in a coherent, resonant way. I'm glad you feel we're fulfilling our task, at least in some small way.
I can't believe I'm only just finding this channel now. One of the best video essay work I've seen. Remember me when you get to a million subscribers!
Thank you very much! If that day ever comes, you'll be one of the diehard OG's.
1:42:52 i actually learned about these kinda late.. lol. like i was trying to figure out how to get into ash twin and was like "OH... SO THOSE ARE WARP TOWERS!?"
I can die happy having experienced this game.
I'm a bit sad that Echoes wasn't really talked about
It's not so much a DLC as the flip side of a coin
I played thru echoes before finishing the main game, and I'll tell you, the experience in Echoes doubled down my attempts to save everyone rather than go to the Eye itself
Echoes does a good job of putting the fear of the universe ending into you if you don't know the vanilla ending.
What made you play Echoes first? I don't know of anyone else who's played in that order.
The DLC may receive its own separate video. Each takes time.
@@ToGamesItMayConcern ran into it without really realizing it, so it was just another destination on my chart, treated it like I treated the interloper.
That's a fascinating way to play through the game. Seems like such an extensively rich area to explore prior to the interconnected web of the others. If I could do this video over again, I would've incorporated covering the DLC. Unfortunately, it just wasn't feasible in the time we had. Thanks for stopping by and giving us a sense of your unique playthrough.
Holy cow what an amazing video. The different interpretations at the end really made me think, and I never thought of your interpretation of the Nomai with the two different factions being scientific and religious. I always thought as them us just happy curious adventurers, so your more realistic interpretation made them much deeper than I ever thought they would be. The Last Question is my favorite Asimov short story, so it was cool to see how you linked it with Outer Wilds, my favorite game ever! It was also really cool to see how you included all the different philosophies from different people from our own world. Really this whole video is so good, I could go on and on about all the things I like about it, but I'll leave it off here :) Deserves millions of views at least. Please do a video on the DLC, because I saw in your ship log that you played it!
Thank you very much! And good eye: one of us has gotten partway through the DLC. We initially considered including it, but analyzing the original game took so much time on its own that we decided to hold off for a bit. We'll probably cover the DLC, but we're going to cover some other topics and games first, just to give ourselves a breather (it's been about a month-and-a-half of non-stop focus on Outer Wilds). We hope you don't mind the wait.
Oh, and here's your digital high five! 🖐
@@ToGamesItMayConcern please take all the time in the world!
Outer Wilds (and its DLC) are such multi-layered stories that it takes a lot of playing (and much more reflection) to come to analyses that are as incredibly coherent and insightful as the one in this video. Thanks so much for the video and for sharing your thoughts with us 🙏🏻
Really great discussion guys! Someone shared this on r/outerwilds, and that's how I found this. I love listening to or being part of discussion about this game, and the topics it touches, and other stuff like level design etc.
This was a wonderful, wonderful discussion. And I am obviously left wondering why it was edited down to this length.
Anyways, couple of things that I want to point out and discuss:
- There are two more (4 more if you include the dlc). I do have to pose this question to you two though, that why do you not consider the final choice of removing the warp core and choosing not going to the Eye (and doing other ending), not a real choice, born of free will. The game never lays out the Final Voyage exactly, so the story and interpretations could go other ways too.
- This one may or may not surprise you, but Kelsey Beachum (writer) definitely didn't want to portray Nomai as religious, as she doesn't like that writing trope in stories (as it's been done to death). So, you may wonder why call it 'Eye Shrine', well the story has the answer, you have the first Nomai translator tool. It can and does translate things incorrectly. A detail to notice is that there are no authors mentioned in 'Eye Shrines' as those two locations are places to discuss ideas about the Eye, however wild, or impossible they might be (the writing there says as much).
- On your point of this clan having no connection to other clans: All Nomai are Nomads that traverse the Universe in their Clan's Vessel. They don't have a home planet. And the two tenets of Nomai philosophy are "Identifying" and "Explaining". Escall's Clan received a signal Older than the Universe itself (a detail that isn't even mentioned once in this video, now that I think about it) and what better thing to Identify and Explain then an anomaly that's possibly older than Universe itself. But things don't go as planned. Tragedy occurs, families get separated, people get killed, but Nomai remain curious. Exploring the planets they crashed at, and recreating some of the tech they had (warp cores, gravity crystals are new to them). Quantum Moon also keeps that curiosity alive. Generations pass, they explore it (unlike us, they didn't have rules written down for them). And after exploring Quantum Moon, they turn there attention back to Eye again (Eye Signal Locator, at Attlerock and Southern Observatory), with more knowledge acquired.
- Very minor thing, but Pye never opened the Core of Interloper, it bursts open (due to the increased pressure inside it) as it approaches the Sun first time in it's entry in the star system. Also, High Energy Lab (prior to being used as the experiment ground, and Ash Twin Project planning location) is the powerhouse for Sunless City. Taking power from Solar Panel, and giving it to Sunless City.
- Echoes of the Eye discussion video also possible?
Once again this was a great video and discussion! Thanks for making this!
This is an excellent explanation of our mistakes, and I appreciate you taking the time to write it! 🖐
We began working on this video immediately after finishing the game, and we tried our best to be thorough and careful, but we also avoided viewing or reading explanations from elsewhere (as we didn't want to accidentally repeat anyone). As you so nicely articulate, we weren't perfect. But I'm glad you still enjoyed what we had to say.
The free will question is tough. You're right, completely, that the player could remove the core, ending the loop and thus their life. Self-destruction is always available, but whether one can choose to do so, I'm not so sure: it seems descriptively like an option always available, but it being _unappealing_ is itself something uncontrolled, a bit like whether or not you could decide to be convinced by my argument-you either are or you aren't. And upon reflection you can imagine the ways you _could_ be convinced, but that word "could" carries a lot of existential weight: you felt what you felt after a long cascade of built-up factors that made your inclinations, and you did not choose that long line of factors, you merely felt what you felt and that became your "choice." In retrospect it will always feel as if it could have been a choice, but that does not make it actually so.
To bring this point back directly to the game: you and I did finish the game, we ventured to the Eye; we also experimented with the other endings, but we could do so with the luxury of game-ified distance-we could experience those endings while also continuing to have the option to go back and experience the one that we truly want. Without that distance, without the option for restarting/rebirth-had self-destruction and therefore lack of knowing and therefore lack of finality been permanent-I would argue it would not be chosen and would only seem a choice when viewed at a distance. All the steps had been laid for the character, all the time invested, all the threads of curiosity left partially frayed... in one descriptive sense it is a choice yet made; in the sense of what could actually be for that character-being the exact sort of character to follow these steps so thoroughly-the choice loses its substance.
One final, separate, point: the choice to destroy oneself is a compulsion born out of limited options, wherein one doesn't care for the choices given, feels trapped, and must exit. That is a "choice," but it certainly doesn't match freedom.
(The argument against free will is especially hard to explain given our language has developed on the assumption of choice, which can make each word feel like a counter to the claim, but convention having tugged in that direction is not enough to prove the ontological claim. So I hope you can see past the tug of individual words to the point being made.)
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I told myself I wasn't going to write long responses like this (I should be focused on work or our next video), but I like the way you explain yourself, so I'm taking your comment seriously. This also feels like a choice to do so, but I would have to be a substantially different person to do otherwise. As to a couple of your other questions: (1) the full length audio covered every main section of every planet, which we found became an inundation of information that isn't always of equal value; we opted instead to keep the information that focused on main themes we wanted to touch on, as that becomes a building of momentum toward a main set of claims; (2) because covering the main game took so much longer than we expected, we ended up having to postpone covering the DLC; we probably will at some point, but for now we're going to take a break and cover some other topics and games-it's been a long stretch of time of only thinking about Outer Wilds.
@@ToGamesItMayConcern I wouldn't call not knowing that meta bit about translator tool a mistake. It is a definite choice by her to use certain words in the game, and because of that such a great video was made. I just wanted to let you know about that bit.
In my interpretation, it could be that Science is Nomai's Religion. Sounds like an oxymoron, I know.
Thanks for sharing more of your thoughts on the ending choice, and Thanks for replying even when you have more great videos to work on! ✋
I bought and played this game some days ago, when you made the first post saying that you were making a long video about Outer Wilds. I knew about this game, but hadn't played yet, and your post encouraged me to try it. And I'm very glad I did, it's a wonderful game! Thank you very much, I enjoyed playing the game and watching the video!
I love that we helped inspire you to play the game! It is such a delicately-crafted experience, and though that intricate structure can feel overwhelming or slow-going at first, we believe it pays off as an overarching experience of learning, growing, seeking, and finding.
We hope our video resonates with your experience or at least prompts further thoughts and interpretations of your own. This is a game of mystery and as such there is no one answer. And since it sounds like you've seen the full video already, here's a high five! 🖐 We very much appreciate it!
Hands down, your guys' best video yet! Ive never played the game but I feel like I know it on such a deep level. Thank you, guys! Really a treat to watch. I cant wait to see what you have in store for us next!
Ahh, a shame, this game is such a once-in-a-lifetime experience, but I guess this video isn't the worst way to experience it for the first time. It's very well made.
Just beat this game, and your excellent video essay popped up in my feed. Really eloquent thoughts, brilliantly picking apart what I loved about this game. Cheers!
39:44 This is actually addressed by the Nomai themselves. It takes place in the Sunless City at the back of the tree area with the light switches, where Ramie confirms that they can't practically find another way of generating the energy required and Pye, although a bit headstrong, assures Idaea who is airing his grievances that they wouldn't use the Sun Station if it turned out that they weren't certain that they could avoid disaster.
That's why the Nomai were not making as much as a gamble as what is described here. They were even ready to fire the Sun Station, and actually did, it just didn't work. As Yarrow said, the whole endeavour was 'theoretically sound', they just didn't get the power. If the probability of failure was still significant, I don't think Idaea would have let it gone through *and* that Pye would go back on her word.
i think the riskiest part of the ATP was not if the time-travel would work, but rather if the ATP could survive the supernova long enough to get the energy it needed. that's a lot harder to test and verify prior to the supernova
@@maple... That's actually not that big of a deal. If the supernova-proof casing wasn't thick enough for the ATP to finish the transmission, there would still be *some* information being sent through, however incomplete. The supernova takes some time to reach the Ash Twin after all. The ATP would then receive it in the past and trigger the fail condition, letting everyone know through the memory statues.
The actual weakest link in the ATP would be the advanced warp core itself. But given how Clary gets very annoyed with Poke's perfectionism and has to reassure Yarrow despite and Poke's pleading to work on the AWC more, I think it's safe to say they had that part handled.
incredible analysis of the game unlike any other videos i've seen covering it (which are many)! so many fresh ideas and perspectives on a game i felt like i had squeezed every bit of interpretation out of already, and just really mentally stimulating conversation and wording. thank you for your immense effort in putting this together for us to enjoy!!!
Thank you so very much for your comment and for appreciating our work! 🖐
Alright man I finally watched this all over again. You guys both really deserve the success from this video and all the work put in. The analysis and essay of this game you have here is almost too much for the mind in a good way. It is a lot to take in similar to the game but I feel by the end I learned a lot about not only the game but the way both of you view life and the world around you. I can't wait for what's to come.
Thank you for returning! These vids aren't complete without your words of encouragement alongside. I appreciate you taking the time-I know this one is a super long time-commitment.
The whole time we made this one it felt like a risk: something that could appeal to no one. Every second we veered off into non-game-related material felt like immediate loss of viewership. I was not confident in publishing this. But it's nice to be surprised that people are interested in what we have to say. It's nice to get it out there in spite of whatever doubts linger in the background.
I have to record a couple more hours of audio today for our next vid. I'm super nervous. This Omori vid we're doing, it's weird, frankly. I don't know if anyone will care. But your comment is another notch of support along that ever-receding wave of creative output, and I thank you for returning again and again to keep us going. You're a great boost, so thank you.
@@ToGamesItMayConcern You're Welcome I feel at this point your videos and my comments are linked in an odd way 😅. It felt so weird when I noticed I hadn't commented and then evidently didn't finish the video. It felt off l. But I'm glad I can encourage you the same way you encourage me. I told you this with when you were working on this video but you might be surprised by the fan base and following of Omori similar to this. When you go and make this in depth essays on games that seem quite obscure they have these tight knit cult followings that literally scour the web for anything related to the games. So just keep a positive outlook no matter how odd it may seem. You have an even bigger following than you did before so that is even more people who want specifically that.
You've been completely right: this vid has introduced us to a whole community of Outer Wilds' players who love diving deep into this digital planetary system and all the lore that hides within it. It's been fascinating. We can only hope to do justice to Omori for that community once they arrive. It'll be a whole 'nother humbling experience. After Omori we might do a couple shorter vids, just to give us time to breathe a little, haha.
Fantastically constructed discussion around one of my all time favs.
Thank you so much for taking the time to watch and for leaving such a kind comment! 🖐
1:04:00 actually this isn't true, you can see for yourself by jumping into the black hole at the core of the Ash Twin Project, and then visiting the Ash Twin Project again right away. Going back in time doesn't alter memories at all. It just happens to also mean you've now made an unbreakable promise to the universe to always go back in time at the end of every loop or else you will destroy the fabric of spacetime, so sending information back in time is a way around that problem.
Hmm, but isn't sending memories back the purpose of linking with the statues? That's also why Gabbro can recall the loops. And all those not linked to a statue, their particles reverse with everything else and thus they don't have memories of the prior loop.
We discuss the ending you mention briefly later in the video. My understanding is that that ending relies on your character continuing to jump into the black hole, thus the memories retain for that character because they are continuing onto the next loop (through the black hole) rather than being looped like everything else. And each time you continue going through the black hole you're allowing that continuation.
@@ToGamesItMayConcern Oh, the loop doesn't reverse anything, the uppermost writing within the Statue Island talks about how it just creates a new future timeline and the old one is discarded as if it never happened. Making the entire universe go backward for the loop sounds like it'd require significantly more energy than a single supernova. At the start of each loop the statue/mask sends memories to your character of a future that was erased and will never come to pass, unless you do exactly the same things as before.
Also I went to bed after that comment as it was late for me, I plan to finish watching the video today :)
I really appreciate you explaining and correcting any misunderstanding on our part. That's the joy of this game: it is one of significant complexity and varying interpretation and sparks communication. Thanks for continuing that process.
@@LB_ That writing doesn't say anything like that at all. It's a philosophical question about the difference between sending just memories vs consciousness back in time. But other than that, yeah, it's not about reversing entropy, the black and white holes are like wormholes that also transport you across time. What goes in is exactly the same thing as what comes out, it just comes out at an earlier time.
Will have to postpone watching this one until I have finished the game by myself, but watch it I absolutely shall since even the few first minutes are as densely thoughtful as I came to expect from you guys!
That's no problem at all! I greatly appreciate you stopping by. Life is so busy, I hope you're able to enjoy Outer Wilds all the way through at some point: the game is masterful in many ways (hence the length of our analysis).
This was such a wonderful thoughtful piece, you really put a lot into it and it is so wonderful to listen to.
Thank you.
Thank you for watching and for your deeply kind comment!
Some of the writings you can find tell more about how the wider Nomai culture functions. The Nomai are galactic explorers by nature. Ships routinely go off on their own adventures, meeting up every ten years to exchange stories about what they have found. The Nomai in the Hearthian solar system are not unusual by their cultures standards. My speculation about why they did not tell the others where they were going is they wanted the prestige of coming back with a great discovery.
Escall already explains why he made the decision to focus on warping as quickly as possible! If they only began receiving the signal now from something that's long been present, there's no guarantee that the signal would continue to be emitted.
I cannot fathom how this has so few views and the channel under a thousand subs. This really is a high quality video and possibly one of the best things I've seen this year. Keep it up. If I got this in my reccomended so will many others and this will blow up!
Thank you so much! We really appreciate you taking the time to watch.
Hi, I'd like to claim my digital high five! Excellent video, definitely going to check out your other stuff, past and future :)
Absolutely! Huge high five for you! 🖐
Thanks for taking the time to watch, and I'm super glad you feel it was worthwhile!
This was quite the watch, but man was it engaging to listen to.
Outer Wilds was one of those games that didn't work for me, I tried multiple times to get into it but found myself empty after 3 or 4 hours in. I've liked hearing what others have to say on it though, and there was definitely a lot of interesting readings and ideas you both presented :)
Hey, thanks for taking the time to watch!
There is a flatness, tonally, to Outer Wilds that's hard to get past-It was for me, the first couple times I tried. And the suggestive experimentation of player-choice isn't quite there in execution. It took the claustrophobic time-limited memory-run of Ash/Ember Twin to help me grasp the mechanics and then the time dilation struggles of the past inhabitants to motivate my further curiosity. Only then did the emotional side of the journey begin; prior to that point it was all intellectual toying.
It's great to hear that in spite of your distance from the game itself you manage to embrace what others have to say about the experience. The ideas are paramount, and maybe that's enough.
Awesome video! One of my favorite games of all time. Really enjoyed your detailed discussion and interpretations. Thanks for the quality content!
Have you guys played SOMA? Based on what you did here, I know i'd really enjoy hearing you do a deep dive discussion on that one someday. And if you haven't played it, a warning, just like OW, the less you know going in the better.
Great recommendation! We played a tiny bit of it when it first came out (probably literally 20 minutes) but got distracted by other releases. Hearing there's more to it than meets the eye, that certainly grabs attention. We may return someday and see what we have to say.
"By the time you reach any truth that matters, you will have completely destroyed the material conditions that allowed that truth to even exist.." The Stranger's inhabitants be like 👀💦💦
I have yet to finish the whole video, but I'm loving it so far and wish to say that 1) this game played a major role in bringing me out of science denial and 2) there absolutely needs to be a part two of this for the Echoes of the Eye DLC (assuming it's not talked about in the remaining portion of the video).
Your point 1 is fascinating. Was it the vastness and/or interconnectedness of everything, or something else?
We may cover the DLC in a separate video, but we're going to focus on some other topics first. We've spent a while solely thinking about Outer Wilds. Would be nice to narrow our analysis on some other games for a bit.
@@ToGamesItMayConcern It's hard to say what exactly did it, especially two years later, but the net result was that the interest I had in astronomy as a kid was reawoken and I was once again curious about the universe. I became so inquisitive, in fact, that I decided to watch PBS crash course episodes on biology and evolution with the goal of at least learning how others understood natural selection (having myself grown up a religious fundamentalist). What I wasn't planning on was it actually making a fair bit of sense. About a week later, NASA, which I was only following on social media after my renewed interest in space exploration, posted an article about the observed supernova explosion SN 2018gv, 70 million light-years away. For the first time I thought about what that meant, about just how long ago that event must have happened for the light to only reach us in recent years. In that instant everything came together and just clicked. From there I learned more about the scientific system itself and have grown to truly appreciate it. Coming back to what it was about Outer Wilds, though, I do have a few guesses. It could've simply been the hunger for discovery it inspired in me carrying over into real life. It could've been the beauty of seing one lineage evolve in the footsteps of another, canceling out some of the negative emotions and "threat detectors" associated with that topic. Or it could've been that the Nomai's story of discovery made me interested enough in the discoveries real scientists were making in our own world and time. Again, it's difficult to say with any amount of certainty, and it wasn't the first or only factor in my mind changing, but there was just _something_ about this game that made me way more curious and way more open to at least trying to understand what scientists had to say.
Oh, for sure! Do take your time. I just wanted to make sure y'all knew that, well.. there's more to explore here ;;) And, speaking of such, you've earned yourselves a new subscriber. After stumbling across this video, I look forward to exploring some other videos in your catalog and seeing what you produce next. Quality work, and I greatly enjoy the dialogue format.
Wow, that's a phenomenal string of events. I'm glad you found knowledge and purpose in each of these moments and that the game cemented for you a curiosity that was always brewing. That's something hard to articulate about these long, explorative games: they grant a taste of learning and the merits therein, the ways learning as a process can be its own reward apart from merely finding a final answer.
Thank you so much for sharing, and I appreciate you wanting to view our other videos. I hope they resonate with you and inspire further thinking.
@@ToGamesItMayConcern Well said, and I appreciate your so attentive listening to my more personal connections with the game.
Thank you. I'm sure they will!
I finally finished watching this today!
1:56:17 I really agree, beautiful way of seeing things
2:08:38 ooh, I like that story too, interesting comparison!
Awesome work on this video, lots of really great discussions and comparisons, thank you for it all. Do you plan to tackle Echoes of the Eye in a separate video?
Fantastic! Thank you so much for watching! High five! 🖐
We originally hoped to cover the DLC as well, but then covering the original game took so long that we decided to split it. We both still have to finish the DLC-it's wonderful so far-but we're going to make a couple vids on different topics first, then likely return to the Outer Wilds universe for one final essay.
I hope you don't mind waiting a bit! The vids in-between should be worthwhile in their own distinctive ways.
@@ToGamesItMayConcern I definitely don't mind waiting, take your time! I look forward to the other videos too :)
I have just reached 58:30 and I will be taking a break from this video for a bit, but so far you views have been quite fascinating to listen to. It always amazes me how so many people have such profound discoveries about themselves and the world with this game, and yet all of them have different discoveries.
Great video! Love this game and all content I can find about it. I truly think this game is one of the greatest ever made and that any one can play it and enjoy it. There's nearly no barrier to entry and no matter where you go on your first trip you will read something that piques your interest and you will be off. It's entirely up to you what you make of it until the very end.
Best game eve. I revisit the game about every week or 2 and always listen to the soundtrack. It's jsut such a masterpiece ein so many ways. It's perfect. Sound effects soundtrack story gameplay environment graphics community theme evrythign is jsut so great about this game
I love how you told me that I'm smarter then someone who can make a black hole for fun.. and also, the eye only revealing its self only after the universe ends. what a twist.
Really enjoyed the video and your varying interpretations of the themes of this wonderful game. I especially liked the discussion on the "Knowledge" theme of the game on two differing axis. I never had elaborated too upon the religious axis of this theme myself, but now appreciate it quite a bit for showcasing a really important aspect of civilizations. Also, it was nice to know about Asimov's story you mentioned which share similar themes with this game.
Kudos to both of you (and any other people involved) 👍👍👍👍
Btw, any plans on a follow up video, discussing the story of Elks in the Echoes of the Eye? I think the DLC adds a lot of extra context and additional themes of its own.
Thank you for taking the time to watch the whole thing! High five! 🖐That is hugely appreciated (I know it's a massive time commitment).
One of us started the DLC, and we'll likely do a video on it but it'll be after a couple other vids we have planned. Right now we're a bit tired of thinking solely about Outer Wilds. The DLC seems great so far, though. In fact, I kind of prefer the density of its design. It feels so far like a culmination of the lessons learned in making the main game. A video on it will come out, probably, some day. :)
Wow, what an absolutely amazing accomplishment. This is a masterpiece of a video about a masterpiece of a game.
Just.. wow. Amazing work!
Glad you enjoyed it! 🖐
Thank you so much. I always wanted to have a vid like this.
Thank you very much for the kind words. We worked hard on this, as you can imagine, so it feels great to read.
I don't think the nomai released the ghost matter. The interloper was put under increased pressure and decreased containment by coming close to the sun. If they had not sought the knowledge they would have died, some things are inevitable.
Hmm, okay, thank you for clearing this up! Sounds like we misunderstood.
@@ToGamesItMayConcern No biggie, it is an easy assumption to make, and you took something from your interpretation. What more could you ask from art?
i unfortunately need to still finish this game but i promise once i do I will watch this. i'll probably watch it twice. :') congrats on getting this huge project finished!
No problem at all. Thank you very much for stopping by! I hope you enjoy playing through the game. I obviously did, haha.
Funny you should mention "The final question", the name of the short tune that plays during the big bang in the ending sequence of Outer Wilds is called "Let there be light".
Oh, thanks for pointing that out! 🖐
9:35 One of the strengths of the Outer Wilds narrative is how **unlike** the hero's journey it is, I think. There's nothing that fits atonement, for example. And the returning and mentorship only fit awkwardly.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero%27s_journey
Yes, keep watching the vid. We return to how well or not it fits the Hero's Journey.
Cool breakdown of the game and story. I definitly had some different interpretations of parts so it was fun hearing how things came across to others.
I loved the experience so much I never realy went back after completing it and the DLC. Think I might go back again and re-read the Noami notes now that I have a complete understanding of what happened and why.
One thing I wasn't sure if it was ever answered is why the Sun Station failed, I recall them just being like "Wow, it didn't work...we'll find another way". I can't believe that someone just miscalculated the math, so that's one lingering mystery in the game for me.
It's left unexplained what the actual process of trying to induce a supernova was as well. I don't think it was a simple miscalculation if they had to go back to square one; something must be inherently wrong with their models for stars. Even in 'current' times, the modern day Nomai were caught off guard by stars becoming unstable, with one clan barely making it out of a triple supernova. They weren't able to predict it in advance even after it being known that the universe was dying. It seems to allude at a hidden variable involved with the stability of stars, that isn't obvious, at least to the Nomai. Very mysterious.
awesome video! i love to see such a profound essay about this game. you made a lot less mistakes about the game's lore than most video essays, and that's a genuine compliment. there's a lot of tiny stuff to potentially get wrong, and i only notice mistakes because i'm absolutely obsessed with outer wilds in every way.
for example, "these nomai discover [the interloper], and in so doing actually release it" is incorrect, they only observed it and its approaching the sun is what caused the explosion, but that's the only big thing you got wrong (it could change the theme of the whole game lol)
sorry i know its not fun to read about things you got wrong, i'm not big brain enough to actually expand upon and converse about things you said in the video, but if it's any consolation i only nitpick like this about things i really like!! it's a good video and i thank you for these 2 hours of my life well spent
Hey, thank you so much for the compliments and the correction! 🖐 I appreciate that you valued our work enough to let us know. Someone else left a comment also informing us about the Interloper mistake. We tried to be careful, but with so much to track, that's one of those details that slipped through. As we said at the end of the vid, one of the great things about the game is the conversations it inspires. Thanks for adding to that conversation!
Amazing video!!! I love it!
Is there a chance to get a tracklist of all the music used in this video? I love so much of it and can't find it!
Sure, and I'll include the times each song starts. This will also be added to my pinned comment.
(00:01:55) Sonora - Quincas Moreira
(00:00:59) Waiting - Andrew Langdon
(00:04:06) As You Prevent Do - pATCHES
(00:06:14) Dream Escape - The Tides
(00:08:59) Pure Potentiality - Benjamin Martins
(00:14:12) The Empty Moons of Jupiter - DivKid
(00:20:21) Dreaming in 432Hz - Unicorn Heads
(00:25:37) Tratak - Jesse Gallagher
(00:31:24) Whispering Stream - E's Jammy Jams
(00:34:29) When the Ash Settles - The Westerlies
(00:40:18) Sonora - Quincas Moreira
(00:44:04) Beijaflor - Quincas Moreira
(00:50:07) A Whisper - ann annie
(00:58:37) Drifting at 432 Hz - Unicorn Heads
(01:00:07) Beijaflor - Quincas Moreira
(01:03:29) Fall Colors - ann annie
(01:06:41) Gently, Onwards - ELPHNT
(01:10:02) Lost Love Song - Sir Cubworth
(01:14:44) Lament Of The Ancients - Asher Fulero
(01:18:19) Melting Sands - ELPHNT
(01:21:30) Underwater Exploration - Godmode
(01:24:33) Waiting - Andrew Langdon
(01:36:44) At the Precipice of a Dying Light - Dan Bodan
(01:39:28) The Empty Moons of Jupiter - DivKid
(01:42:29) As You Prevent Do - pATCHES
(01:45:12) Beijaflor - Quincas Moreira
(01:48:05) Gently, Onwards - ELPHNT
(01:51:28) Beijaflor - Quincas Moreira
(01:54:31) Dream Escape - The Tides
(01:57:43) Lament Of The Ancients - Asher Fulero
(01:59:47) Gently, Onwards - ELPHNT.
(02:06:29) Lucid Haze - Amulets
(02:09:23) Lament Of The Ancients - Asher Fulero
@@ToGamesItMayConcern Thanks a lot! Awesome music choices!
i think you both would thoroughly enjoy return of the obra dinn. it has a very similar design philosphy
It's on our list of potential games to cover! We'd love to play and analyze all the greats!
This is a fantastic video. I love this game. I love this world. I love your take.
But if I hear another person say ‘timber herth’ I will disintegrate xD
Excellent essay.
Thank you! 🖐
I'll always watch a thoughtful/lengthy video on Outer Wilds (even if it does take a couple of days) because it's really one of the best games I've ever played. Hopefully it inspires similar efforts.
Anyways, great video. Very thorough. Glad I watched, and thank you.
this was fantastic. thanks for sharing!
High five! 🖐
Thank you very, very much for watching! 😀
also: i love your thoughts and interpretations of this game. i played it for the first time last year, and i haven't been able to take it off my head since. I'm always eager to find more about it. Do you guys plan on talking about the DLC as well eventually? it's such a big contrast with how the nomai view things, it'd be a great conversation to listen to :)
Thank you!
Right now, we're thinking of focusing on a few other vids first-a second Omori vid and some broader topics-as we've been devoted to Outer Wild for at least a month-and-a-half now. But I did start the DLC, and it's so far fantastic. We'll probably cover it someday! We just need a tiny break, haha.
@@ToGamesItMayConcern That's fair! And also neat to see what's coming next in the channel 👀 I just found it yesterday by chance (thanks for the rec, youtube!) and I'm excited to watch the other videos now!!
Sorry about your cat :/
I love how the game really puts you into the mindset of being a xenoarcheologist and upon a second or maybe even third playthrough some people are trying to find out so much more about than the game requires you to, simply because the developers have put in the effort of going beyond just the necessary puzzles and pieces of information. If you want, you can completely reconstruct the Nomai's travels. Who was on Escall's vessel and ended up in which escape pod, who was responsible for which discovery and step in the Ash Twin Project, who was whose relative or spouse, and even sometimes whose remains you just came across and what they have done before ending up there.
That also opens up some pseudo-scientific discussions in RUclips comment sections without any real value so be prepared as I have a go:
I disagree that the Nomai's single-mindedness about the eye is such a huge gamble. It has to be something very significant since the signal is older than the universe itself. That fact alone is the entire reason for the Nomai's fascination, and it seems very understandable to me. Also, the eye has never lost its practical value to the Nomai to become only a religious symbol. They were still trying to figure out how to get to it and to see what would happen if a conscious observer would observe the most quantum thing they ever knew existed. The pilgrimage to the Quantum Moon may have evolved into something more symbolic, but that was only because it was the closest they were able to travel to the eye, without ever seeing it. Therefore they also could not have "stared" at the eye from the moon, otherwise it would have collapsed as it does at the end of the game. I believe the travel to the moon was not all symbolic though but rather an initiation for adulthood to prepare the Nomai for when one of them would eventually reach the eye itself, and make them familiar with the eye's surface and attributes. There is a sense of religion, as the Eye Shrines indicate, but I don't think the Nomai were split into a scientific and a religious group. They were both, scientifically interested and aware that it may be something greater than themselves.
Instant classic
this channel really has below 1k subs, it ain't fair
Haha, yeah, it's tough out here! So many channels to choose from!
Thanks for checking us out! We'll keep delivering the best we can as often as we can.
a wonderful video essay! but i feel it a missed opportunity that you didn't discuss the dlc (which i find odd since a good bit of the footage here is clearly from after its release), and the similarities you have as the player hearthian with the characters there and in the main game *despite* your differences with them.
(stop reading here if you haven't played the dlc)
there are some very fundamental differences between all the different species, for example; hearthians lack the concept of gender (at least as we usually understand it), whilst the nomai seem to have an arrangement similar to us. we don't know much about the owlk's culture, as we never get to read any of their text, and as such we can't even assume they're anything like the hearthians or the nomai. even despite all being fairly humanoid, not a single species shares more than a trait or two, none of them even have the same number of eyes! the cultures of all three, even ignoring the fundamental differences and unknowns, are all very unique from eachother, and in spite of these differences, they're all united in some sense by their senses of curiousity and creativity, feelings of mourning and fear, of experiences of failure and loss, and of course, music.
This is a wonderful observation on your part.
perhaps the eye wanted to be found, it just didnt want to be found when it was by the nomai or the owlks. maybe it only wanted to be found as late as possible.
That would imply that the Eye is able to subtly influence what happens, seeing as the sequence of events that led to us being the one who got to the Eye naturally flows and seems to involve a bit of luck.
Well this is certianly cool. Full of takes don't agree with and pretty sure many sections are factually incorrect but also very cool and interesting watching you all go through your thought processes.
Haha, thanks for finding the good in it!
I'm surprised you didn't talk about the dlc. I hope you do because this was very interesting.
Yeah, sorry about that. We expected this video to take far less time than it did. We initially recorded over four hours of audio, and that led to us needing to cut a lot to get the video out in a reasonable time. We will likely cover the DLC; for now, though, we're going to focus on a few other topics and games, just to give us a break from only thinking about Outer Wilds (it's been non-stop for about a month-and-a-half).
@@ToGamesItMayConcern cool!
Dang dogs I decisively dig this
Great alliterative wording!
@@ToGamesItMayConcern Finally someone acknowledges my wit! But seriously I enjoy how thoughtful this video essay is.
Nearly 2K views, excellent
Yes, it's been steadily building! You've been a part of that: you left such a fantastic early comment on this vid, and it wouldn't surprise me if that helped push people to watch the whole thing. So thank you so much for that!
@@ToGamesItMayConcern that's very kind, thank you, not sure it helps as much, but every bit helps! :D I'm just glad to see it going! :D
43:37 the test actually failed. they failed to blow up the sun. but the point you give is still good tho
What’s the song at the start of 14:10? I’ve been trying to find that album again
The sound at that exact moment is a sound effect from the game Myst, but it transitions into the song "The Empty Moons of Jupiter" by DivKid.
@@ToGamesItMayConcern Thank you, and great video! Outer Wilds is definitely one of my favorites.
So... any chance you'll cover the DLC? :^)
Yes, we very likely will! We're currently prepping a three-hour vid on Omori (taking an especially long time since the audio was originally over eight hours long). And then we have a few other ideas. We both want to cover the DLC, but we need to make sure we have something unique and worthwhile to say. Takes time, but thanks for asking!
@@ToGamesItMayConcern Wowww
Algorithm, yes to that.
I've just started watching the video and the audio is weird for me, it's like your talking is multiplied by 2 and your second voice is in lofi in the background. That's weird, never heard anything like that
Yeah, this occurs a couple of times during the beginning section of the video. We tried removing it as much as we could but some of it remains. Over time, the audio becomes perfect. We hope you check out the rest of the video when you can, though we understand that that initial echo can be distracting. Sorry about that.
2:03:40 looks like someone has the dlc but hasnt played it👀
*dlc ending spoilers*
The outline of the portal pond and the fish alien is always there even without the dlc.
Thanks
You have a lot of interesting and unique takes on what's going on in this game that I totally disagree with.
That's honestly great!
A few commenters have pointed out some mistakes we made-e.g. Interloper rupturing due to heat not due to Nomai interaction, and much else-and that's alright with us. That's part of the point of putting our views out there. Much of our interpretations are jumping-off-points for broader ideas-these are not narrowly defined 'truths' about the work. We fully embrace alternative ways of reading the game. We purposefully siloed ourselves away from viewing or reading the interpretations of others, and that has led to the aforementioned mistakes, but I hope it's also led to those "interesting and unique takes" and ultimately to fresh ways of thinking about this incredible game.
@@ToGamesItMayConcern Oh absolutely. This was simultaneously one of the most engaging and frustrating pieces of content I've seen on the game haha! Its a unique approach and you should definitely keep it up. Perhaps checking some of your language in the way you express opinions might help it be more enjoyable for me personally. Adding more uncertainty into your statements would make it more clear that you are ruminating on these ideas rather than expressing them as "truths."
Example: at one point it was expressed that the Nomai as a species are only dead in this system and definitely live on elsewhere, while there is nothing in the game that indicates whether that is assuredly true or not. To your credit, a while later it was indicated that this may not be the case; that for all we know they are totally extinct, but that we simply don't know. But the first statement was made with such conviction, and enough time was between the first and the second, that the experience was a little like reading the "retractions" section of a news article a week after telling all your friends about the original headline.
Fair enough. Thanks for your feedback!
I actually think Outer Wilds could make for a great movie.
A lone space traveller, who spends his first dozen loops trying to explain everything to his fellow villagers. But there is nothing they can do to help in the small amount of time that is left. So eventually the traveller realizes that trying to get help from home is hopeless, and he also hates the pain he inflicts upon them, again and again, when he explains that they are going to die.
So he takes it upon himself to travel the solar system, and learn everything about the Nomai to try to prevent the supernova. Years and years and years worth of loops pass. Some loops he spends just starring hopelessly at the sky. Eventually coming to Chert's realisation, that not only our sun is dying, too many of them are dying. Could the mystery of the Nomai possibly lead to anything that could solve this situation?
The absolute terror of removing, and carrying the Ash Twin core to the mothership, after living through thousands and thousands of loops without consequence.
Eventually he comes to the same realization that us, the players came to when we played the game. Death is inevitable in Outer Wilds, we cannot save the universe, but we can learn what we can, and we can help collapse the innumerable possibilities that lay before us.
Outer Wilds is the greatest time loop story ever told. The plot is simply brilliant.
Great pitch!