Tô me it was when I said 1 month later. My characters had made a deal with an orc army to build them.ships if they don't invade the countryside. And I loved seeing the faces of my players as it sunk in that they were stuck doing that for a month.
@@Scarletraven87not when they’re the only NPCs able and willing to help on a deal to save the country side. Because yeah you could bring in some people for that, but in orc country who’s to say they don’t get scared and leave? Then if you have to stay with the NPCs so they don’t get attacked or flee you might as well be doing it yourself.
I think a lot of people are missing the nuance here. This isn't for when your characters are all engaged and roleplaying with each other, or having meaningful discussions. If the group wants to spend an hour on camp roleplay, playing poker with each other in character, or hunting, and everyone is actively engaged and having fun. The DM should generally let that happen, or even provide situations within that to enhance it. What this is, is the nuclear option for when players start arguing in circles, and some players are actively getting frustrated/disengaging. For when you have players who want to make everyone's lives miserable by going shopping, and trying to talk down the price of EVERYTHING, or when they come up to a fork in the path and spend an hour arguing over which way to go. Sometimes players just need a nudge so they don't get in the way of their own enjoyment.
I love cutting through in universe time for us to fill in later, they actually get much more creative about how to fill that time if we're doing it retroactively
Fast forwarding IS boring. Its so not creative at all and shows how little interest you as DM have in the current event you can't even come up with an improvised event
REDDITORS: he's not saying "make the player choices for them to progress the story your way" he's saying "montage through the boring bits and jump to the next meaningful encounter"
Who makes you an arbiter of what is and isn't boring, though? Maybe there are players who love shopping, or groups that like to argue about how to proceed and plan things out in detail. It's very hard to make a decision like that that is in favour of what most of the table wants. Just because the GM has the power to time-skip, it's not a power that should be used without a very good reason. Use it with restraint
@@cheesy_87by virtue of being the DM you are literally already Holding that responsibility. You judge what the group wants, ideally by cicommunicating with players. Saying "the next day" isnt some one and done thing that just happens with no way to undo it, if for some reason players don't agree with it you can roll back
Remember, that has to be done with caution, as it wont work at every table. In my case for example me and my players really, and I mean really, like to roleplay. To have our characters create and reinforce bonds is crucial. Just last session I was DMing, half of it was them buying ingredients to make an apple pie, and getting some rope for a rope jumping competition, as one of the characters mentioned to never have the chance to learn when they were younger. Always adapt to your table's needs
I dont eant fast forwarding. Be creative and have someone or something interupt the pointless discussions. Like a living breathing world would do. Not just magicaly "2 days later" my discussion with my party. Don't cut me off for no reason.
I just started doing this with my players. Not every table benefits from a forced fast-forward, but several of my players have a habit of assuming that there's ALWAYS another clue to find, and sometimes you have to just tell them "you guys grab lunch and head downtown towards the place you said you were going to go today." There's a lot of people in the comment section who will yell "RAILROADING" and insist that if you don't let the players haggle over the price of every single item in the shop that you're a bad DM. But there's a difference between forcing the players down the path you want them to take and moving them along the path that they said they were going to take. If they agree to go search the mines, it's okay to assume that their characters are going to buy the equipment and head out on the road without much fuss. At the end of the day, the game is supposed to be fun, and unless your group gets a thrill from shaving two copper pieces off of their fourth bottle of spell components because they rolled a persuasion check on each one and finally got a Nat 20... well, skip to the parts that are FUN. It doesn't have to be straight into battle, but often the RP between PCs is a lot more fun than RP with Shopkeep No. 47 a.k.a. "Larry, whose wolfsbane is two cents cheaper per pound than Shopkeeps 1-46"
It's literally the DMs job to set the frame the world for the players, so actively editing while roleplaying is already happening.all the time, the note is to basically pace your sessions faster by yada yadaing the stuff that doesn't feel narratively satisfying. If buying carrots for the goat, and actively meeting the NPC and scratching off 2 copper is your bag then go off
I remember reading somewhere, dont railroad but treat it like a highway. The players can reach the destination they want but it depends on the journey they take on how they get there.
Yeah seen comments about how legends of avantis doing a campaign that most others have done in 5 sessions reach 52 sessions. And it’s one of their most loved ones.
When things drag on our DM sets a timer and say "I'm giving you X minutes to decide what to do before the bbeg attacks / the king demands your answer / the day ends". That way we get a warning to move on while the tension rises even further
All the D&D subreddits will clutch their pearls and scream "RAILROADING!" at the thought of anything less than an amorphous sandbox with everything invented on-the-fly. Advice like this is liable to make them outright faint!
I think its not elegant or player friendly at all... There are better ways to do this. Dozens of them. "Hey guys what else do you wanna do here so we can continue with the story?" is pretty on the nose and still better than this...
@@DomenG33KIf you watch movies then you’re subject to scenes being cut all the time. It even happens when we dream. The pacing of a good game demands action from the DM, or the movie director in this metaphor. If the cast just stands around talking to the camera operator, the movie won’t be made.
@@luismigueloteromolinari5406 this isn't a dm not giving there players stuff to do. This is the "were done with the un important shopping that making Brad go to sleep" situation. Players tend to limger on things a tad bit too long so there are times that's best to just move things forward for the benefit of the whole group dm included.
I love how The Wildsea handles this by having Scenes and Montages as clearly defined modes of gameplay. If it's exciting, zoom in. If it's only set dressing or minuate, zoom out.
Oh man.. This is SUCH a good tip.. Pacing aside, it also totally bypasses having to play out the menial tasks players would do, which I've had eat up a full hour sometimes. Esp when you don't know their intentions, the players just narrate wanting to go into town, then finding the market, then talking with the shopkeeper or whoever, (sometimes its an NPCs house to tell them something), and any interesting flavour text or world-building you come up with might draw them to get distracted, then another player wants to join, then the others want to narrate what they would've been doing, and on and on and on...
Could not agree more! I am stealing the quote: "When the fun is gone, move on!" I love a good rhyme. Sometimes what happens between the cool moments adds something to the narrative - what resources did the characters gain or find, what did they find out in their studies - these things can add a great deal of agency to how the characters interact with encounters (social, hazardous, and violent). This is why my game has Downtime Actions. We move the narrative along at a good pace at the table, and when the fun is gone, we move on, but I let them know they have been awarded DT Actions for these various breaks at the end of a session or during a short break and the players can spend them to have their characters interact with these fictional elements during the intermission. It also gives me time to track in game time, which can be tedious to do on the fly. Doing it in retrospect really allows me to fine tune what resources the characters have, which can help in area/dungeon level pacing when the action starts back up again!
DM: Carrots? Okay, before you left town, you bought a week's survival provisions for you, the party and your animals. Half is in the cart, the other half spread amongst your packs for snacking. You can extrend these provisions by foraging, but you probably won't need to before you reach your destination, which is only four days traveling. So, you're on the road ...
I wish I could do this. My players spent half the session doing non-lethal damage to a band of marauders, then the other half debating the morality of killing them because they're was no prison system. BTW, they totally killed them after I had to RP that none of them were remorseful and if given the chance, they would kill again.
I kinda do this, but I like to think of it as a funnel thing. I have "major plot points" that need to be visited in a sequential order (ie get the quest, do the quest, turn in the quest for reward). What they do between it is up to them. Say they get the quest and decide to faff about for who knows how long getting into roleplay scenarios or shopping or whatever, as long as the quest isn't specifically time sensitive it doesn't matter to much, but just like all roads leading back to Rome, all story lines lead to the next major plot point
That goes for new players who aren't used to the freeform freedom an RPG grants... ... especially those who think console games are RPGs. They need the extra help. 🤣
I'm in a campaign that we've been playing for a bit over a year. It was fun for the longest time, but we're at a point where the campaign could've ended months ago if the DM wasn't constantly introducing new side quests. The other players are having fun, but personally I haven't been having much fun anymore. Our characters have been level 20 constantly getting more and more OP homebrew items for months, and we're one party decision away from ignoring other quests and going straight to the BBEG. I just want us to get all the side quests over with so we can beat the BBEG by now because I was excited to fight him, then out of nowhere it's just side quest after side quest as soon as the DM finds out we basically just want to make sure everything is taken care of so we can fight the BBEG. I don't want to quit the campaign, but at the same time it doesn't feel fun anymore and just feels like a day where I listen to someone talk about something I have no interest in. Yes, I WAS having fun, but not anymore. What I think is currently going on is I entered a campaign where everyone is close friends with the DM, and the DM is having fun, and the players see it as an escape from reality, whereas I see D&D as fun Dice game where I can blast stuff with magic (and last time I referred to D&D as a dice game my whole group got pissed off at me until I apologized, even the DM didn't want to talk with me until the other players made him cool his jets). I feel out of place in the group, and feel like the DM is trying to prioritize his own fun with all the references to stuff he likes being put in our game whether we get them or not, and the other players just so happen to still be having fun. I don't know what to do in this situation because the fun is there for others and not me, but if I got what I found fun I know the rest of the party would not have fun. Yet despite all this, I truly don't want to quit the campaign because the character I made for the campaign my DM helped me fall in love with playing, and he made NPCs that I absolutely adored, but we're now at a point where I don't feel passionate about the campaign anymore.
talk to your DM one on one, express how you feel the campaign is starting to drag, you're ready for a resolution and taking a break. Honestly, communication go's a long way, even if its just a text conversation, at least you got it out there. Sounds like the campaign has been going on for awhile, if you're all level 20 now. nothing wrong with wanting to wrap it up and take a break for awhile. if they wanna keep going after you leave thats fine. maybe you can jump back in at a later point.
I think its important what they actually want to do with that. If it is character growth between the party members, let em have it. If they are talking about the weird nuances of quantum physics, its probably safe to skip ahead just a bit. I actually tend to fast forward a bit unless there is something of note during travel, and I will also ask my players “you have some downtime during the travels ahead, is there anything you want to do?” Usually this acts as a cue for them to get any good character beats in like pray to their god or talk to their pets and stuff before we move on too fast. If they all shake their heads then we can move on nice and easy.
My campaigns usually rubber band between the players finishing prepared stories and shenanigans in the interim. You’d be surprised how well players start behaving when they realize you are now focused on the consequences of their down time actions, and will continue to do so for a session or two. Generally by the end of a campaign, the ‘final battle’ is some grossly modified version of what I originally planned but also deeply personal to the players as a result. Some will try to raise armies, others just want super weapons for maxxing. Some seek alliances. Others seek lore and keep me on my toes as far as world building goes. It can be kind of inspiring.
I think a good way to do this would be like "You argued all through the night." And roll disadvantage for Con, Dex, and Charisma due to being tired and not getting sleep. Or argue on the road.😂
I love that because it’s annoying if they had to explain what they’re doing for 20 minutes just to get Charlie a carrot. What should be a simple role play encounter might be like 20 seconds to just skip to the point and keep the flavor of roleplay still in as well
Often you can get a similar result by just setting a timer and saying, “Somehow, as if by instinct borne of a long-forgotten cataclysm that rocked your ancestral line, you know - with absolute certainty - that if you don’t make something happen in the next few minutes, you’ll be too late when the apocalypse comes knocking for you or someone else.” And if they don’t wrap it up before the timer ends, something bad happens in the world and they hear about it on their way to confront the threat.
Agreed & well said. On a related point, as a player, when the GM "hand waves" a combat, I generally resent it, unless the result was extremely clear. To me, combat is just as important as RP. When I've GMed and saw that combat was getting bogged down, I can usually come up with a believable reason, in game, why the enemy withdrawals, dies or the fight is otherwise over. So, my point is, as a GM, please do your level best to not break suspension of disbelief, if at all possible. It's really where the "magic" is found and isn't that what we all want?
@@Grymreefer to what you is discussion bogging down gameplay is probably roleplay to others, one of the pillars of the TTRPG community. Since everyone else participates in this discussion, don't you think that they would wrap it up if they weren't enjoying it?
There's many ways you can create pressure to move the session forward, but don't deny players some downtime, too. If I forget buying carrots (or spell components) because you keep cutting, I'm gonna be displeased.
i tried this several times, but sadly my players riotted against me becase "They don't want cinematics" so... in the end we lose a lot of time with those situations without nothing happenings
Its kindof like flipping a coin on a big decision, when it lands you know what you really wanted and youre forced to see that. So it stops wasting time and you still get the thing you really should have been spending your time doing.
I just let my players do what they want but within the story I have everything planned out we follow the story they do what they want. The story changes it’s their actions that change the story.
My solution is to just put a 5-10 minute timer. Make the discussions quicker and make decisions faster. It keeps the momentum going and makes the players more engaged.
i think this advice is really bad, as a dm, your job is to keep the players having a good time and telling their story while they do it, if the players story is buying carrots then you make a fun guy to buy supplies from, when the conversation is going nowhere you dont yank them to the future you make the conversation go somewhere, youre all powerful in this story you can make nothing into something
Some of these comments keep stating the same thing: "weh I'm the DM and I didn't sign up for all this roleplaying in a roleplaying game, so instead of speaking my personal intention in session zero, I'm just gonna use telepathy to make players play my way and if they don't get it, I'll just go full NEXT EPISODE ON D&D on them.".
Towards the end when you ask what to do against the sword move, I am pretty sure dodgeroll forward is the answer as a hardcall. As in, you do it by the same startup and you should move closer as she moves closer and whiffs. Problem is if she goes for that low instead and hits while rolling. As a Charlotta player, range is always my issue and dodgeroll forward usually is my go to answer to everything that spaces me out. *(Dangerous but how will I win without facing danger!)* NOTE: Ladivas dodgeroll is 4f slower than the rest of the cast, it might not work for you.
It's from "Waterdeep: Dungeon of the Mad Mage". It's a cool module that is essentially a throwback to the old super dungeons. It's connected to "Waterdeep: Dragonheist" and you can run them together for a full 1-20 adventure. I will say, if you want to make the most of it you really want to make your own additions to the two of them.
The people complaining about this are usually the ones who slow the game down like a slowmo guys video so they can shop for 3 days, or attempt to solve an extremely simple quest by doing ridiculous things that never progress anything. The guy in the video is CLEARLY (if youre not sub 80 IQ) saying that you only use this when the players are not progressing anything and seem to be getting bored. If you want to have a boring ass campaign where the players have to trudge through 4 hours of walking, no one is stopping you. Hes just giving good advice for players who enjoy their time and want to play a game.
There's an interesting mix of fun and narcissism in dnd groups. Some players really do have a lot of fun just allowing the game to deteriorate into their own brand of absurdity, or drag to a halt while they plan and negotiate the perfect move in combat. It's certainly fun for them, and nobody else, and they often don't mind that.
"Sure, it's ok to Sometimes let those pesky players in on stiring the Story, but in the end it's not fun for me if they do so. So if your players are stuck doing...ugh... 'RoLePlAyInG' what I like to do is to just Interrupt them mid conversation and forcefully no questions asked railroad them straight to the next day because my players doing this weird 'RoLePlAyInG' nonsense or however it's called ruins MY fun. Sometimes though I have players that try to flash back and continue the nonsense that's leading nowhere, so what I do in this case is that I just Handwave it by saying 'yeah yeah Sure whatever, you got what you wanted to get' to sorta get them to be quiet and listen to ME continuing MY campaign." Like dude, someone please safe this persons players, thats absolute garbage dming. I was already pretty on the fence when seeing a short where the same person went "don't tell your players what hitpoints are until they get attacked or fall down a cliff. That's something they don't need to know to start playing the game" but now, yeah no, this person should absolutely not dm for anyone
Seems like most parties need to be corralled like a bunch of sheep tbh. Theyre delightful sheep, but players get in the way of their own enjoyment and a DM has to arbitrate that. Good advice.
This doesn’t work with my players, every time I try to pull something similar all of them riot and drag the scene back to where it was to finish whatever it was they were bullshitting over. The discussion doesn’t even have to do with the game, they could be talking about boobs and butts but it HAS to take place at the blacksmith’s shop because that’s where discussion on the topic first started.
I'm very bad for this and feel embarrassed once i realize that the dungeon master has been getting frustrated with me. They've got an amazing story to tell... I've wasted two turns trying to enchant a dog to be part of the squad.
So many selfish players always comment on things like this how about the dm's role being is a job as if dm's aren't allowed to have fun facilitating the advancement of the story.
Some players may allow it but 9ters really dont. Ive tried this before and they go "woah wait, Ok what I was saying is..." or "okok but just let me finish the..."
I've preordered this as a birthday present to myself (my birthday is the day after it releases), but now hearing about all the interaction with previous planes that 5e has already touched, I'm tempted to pick up all the campaign settings that are featured in this book to run a series of adventures to give my players full teams of PCs to offer them options for when the Vecna story starts in our own chronology.... Or even start our own chronology! It is possible to be TOO excited?!
The fact you can't tell the difference between railroading and the advice that he's giving here, sounds like a you problem. Being self-aware when a scene is dragging on too long, and is not remotely helpful to the plot, is not the same thing as completely railroading your players. The truth is that many players will get bored during certain spans of time, so doing your part to assist in skipping this, is actually helping to prevent them from getting burnt out. Plus the fact that he is giving them a chance to say what they may have done in between, is obviously not the same thing as forcing them through a certain set of actions. If you personally have troubles implementing something like this without railroading then that might be something that you need to work on.
@insaynt9924 Well, it's not like the DM Guide teaches this sort of thing, and not every DM will be a natural storyteller, so the confusion does make sense. A clip video also doesn't help. What does help is session zero setting those playstyle parameters, but that was stuck in a latter supplement, and it only spoke about tone limits.
Shoe horning players isnt a good option. its better to ad lib a low quality session that players dictate instead of running some stale cookie cutter unit everybody can predict once they see the first enemy. if you want them to do X, and they wander through the forest- punish them a little. have the trail they are walking in collapse into a pit and have them fighting an enraged bug bear. NPCs can drop hints or straight up request the party into the right area. you can easily steer people in the right direction just by describing an option for them to pursue. if they dont take the hint, let them exhaust a few other options in the area, and remind them of what things they havent investigated yet.
The best viable solution is for them to be late for what their assignment was in the first place. Whenever an opponent has one's own goal, that's easily the most basic way of establishing a time limit to what the heroes can do. If they're late to stop the opponent, the opponent gets more difficult to thwart, thus automatically placing a penalty on the party. Like when Mulan and the Royal China Army spent all that time dicking around, then got to the village where Shan Yu was supposed to attack, only finding out his army already burned the village down, sparing no man, woman, or child. Mmmmdoops!
I refuse to skip anything. If my players want to do their own thing, I allow it. The job of a dm isn't to guide the party. It's to make the experience fun for the players. So what if they don't go where I want? They're the players. I'll save what they skipped for a future campaign.
@Hussar88 More like when some of them aren't having fun, in which case, put a time limit for the holdovers and explain why, then move on. Although this usually can be resolved in session zero from players setting goals and establishing playstyles.
In my opinion this makes DND campaigns a whole lot less fun DND isn’t about achieving a goal It’s a game let the players have fun and if they have a really long argument with an NOC you can put the player in a space where their forced to resolve the argument same with any other encounter. Don’t get me wrong the DM or GM should also have fun but the players fun should be the priority
That picture with a giant spider having a book reading for the forest critters is both terrifying and cute at the same time.
Feywild 😉
thanks for pointing in direction@@ManicAU
@@alexszilagyi3695 that’s okay :)
It's in Wild Beyond the Witchlight! (Feywild campaign)
;)@@okashi10
The first time I uttered the words "Four days later..." as a DM my entire world changed.
At that moment you went from being a Dungeon Creator to a Dungeon Master
*clicks tongue* ANYWAY...
Tô me it was when I said 1 month later. My characters had made a deal with an orc army to build them.ships if they don't invade the countryside. And I loved seeing the faces of my players as it sunk in that they were stuck doing that for a month.
@@Dragonwing16 couldn't the characters have hired NPCs to do that?
@@Scarletraven87not when they’re the only NPCs able and willing to help on a deal to save the country side. Because yeah you could bring in some people for that, but in orc country who’s to say they don’t get scared and leave? Then if you have to stay with the NPCs so they don’t get attacked or flee you might as well be doing it yourself.
I think a lot of people are missing the nuance here. This isn't for when your characters are all engaged and roleplaying with each other, or having meaningful discussions. If the group wants to spend an hour on camp roleplay, playing poker with each other in character, or hunting, and everyone is actively engaged and having fun. The DM should generally let that happen, or even provide situations within that to enhance it.
What this is, is the nuclear option for when players start arguing in circles, and some players are actively getting frustrated/disengaging. For when you have players who want to make everyone's lives miserable by going shopping, and trying to talk down the price of EVERYTHING, or when they come up to a fork in the path and spend an hour arguing over which way to go. Sometimes players just need a nudge so they don't get in the way of their own enjoyment.
Well then he should have said that. When you have to rely on comments to explain the nuance of a RUclips short, you've missed the brief.
@@noeldacosta7621he did say that. “When the fun is gone, move on.”
@@noeldacosta7621it's harder to have a nuanced explanation that everybody will catch in short-form content. Unsurprising.
So do you just decide which fork they go for them? Sounds like a way to make half your players resentful.
@@ZarHakkarBINGO! DMs like this suck
I love cutting through in universe time for us to fill in later, they actually get much more creative about how to fill that time if we're doing it retroactively
I like how the advice is: Let your players help steer the adventure. But if it’s boring just fast forward.
Fast forwarding IS boring. Its so not creative at all and shows how little interest you as DM have in the current event you can't even come up with an improvised event
REDDITORS: he's not saying "make the player choices for them to progress the story your way" he's saying "montage through the boring bits and jump to the next meaningful encounter"
Who makes you an arbiter of what is and isn't boring, though? Maybe there are players who love shopping, or groups that like to argue about how to proceed and plan things out in detail. It's very hard to make a decision like that that is in favour of what most of the table wants. Just because the GM has the power to time-skip, it's not a power that should be used without a very good reason. Use it with restraint
@@cheesy_87by virtue of being the DM you are literally already Holding that responsibility. You judge what the group wants, ideally by cicommunicating with players. Saying "the next day" isnt some one and done thing that just happens with no way to undo it, if for some reason players don't agree with it you can roll back
Remember, that has to be done with caution, as it wont work at every table. In my case for example me and my players really, and I mean really, like to roleplay. To have our characters create and reinforce bonds is crucial. Just last session I was DMing, half of it was them buying ingredients to make an apple pie, and getting some rope for a rope jumping competition, as one of the characters mentioned to never have the chance to learn when they were younger. Always adapt to your table's needs
I dont eant fast forwarding. Be creative and have someone or something interupt the pointless discussions. Like a living breathing world would do. Not just magicaly "2 days later" my discussion with my party. Don't cut me off for no reason.
That sounds absolutely lovely!
A mind flayer pirate and the sentence “let your players lead the session” gave me bad dimension 20 fantasy high flashbacks
The art is from dungeon of the mad mage if you’re interested
"Everyone! We're gonna jump on them, and we're gonna MURDER 'EM!!!" - Fabian's famous last words
So glad the new season is already halfway up!
@@th3g00se NO ROBES!!!
We always treat the distractions as conversations on the road, just as we arrive at the destination
Thats a nice touch. Or have someone or something interupt discussions that go nowhere. A little flavor
I just started doing this with my players. Not every table benefits from a forced fast-forward, but several of my players have a habit of assuming that there's ALWAYS another clue to find, and sometimes you have to just tell them "you guys grab lunch and head downtown towards the place you said you were going to go today."
There's a lot of people in the comment section who will yell "RAILROADING" and insist that if you don't let the players haggle over the price of every single item in the shop that you're a bad DM. But there's a difference between forcing the players down the path you want them to take and moving them along the path that they said they were going to take. If they agree to go search the mines, it's okay to assume that their characters are going to buy the equipment and head out on the road without much fuss.
At the end of the day, the game is supposed to be fun, and unless your group gets a thrill from shaving two copper pieces off of their fourth bottle of spell components because they rolled a persuasion check on each one and finally got a Nat 20... well, skip to the parts that are FUN. It doesn't have to be straight into battle, but often the RP between PCs is a lot more fun than RP with Shopkeep No. 47 a.k.a. "Larry, whose wolfsbane is two cents cheaper per pound than Shopkeeps 1-46"
Almost thought he wouldnt say "perfect" 😌
It's literally the DMs job to set the frame the world for the players, so actively editing while roleplaying is already happening.all the time, the note is to basically pace your sessions faster by yada yadaing the stuff that doesn't feel narratively satisfying.
If buying carrots for the goat, and actively meeting the NPC and scratching off 2 copper is your bag then go off
I remember reading somewhere, dont railroad but treat it like a highway. The players can reach the destination they want but it depends on the journey they take on how they get there.
Yeah seen comments about how legends of avantis doing a campaign that most others have done in 5 sessions reach 52 sessions. And it’s one of their most loved ones.
This is like Matt Colville's "Orcs Attack!" but with no violence. I like it!
When things drag on our DM sets a timer and say "I'm giving you X minutes to decide what to do before the bbeg attacks / the king demands your answer / the day ends".
That way we get a warning to move on while the tension rises even further
That's fair and much better than springing a sudden montage on them.
I like that much better than the sudden power move described in the video
All the D&D subreddits will clutch their pearls and scream "RAILROADING!" at the thought of anything less than an amorphous sandbox with everything invented on-the-fly. Advice like this is liable to make them outright faint!
I think its not elegant or player friendly at all... There are better ways to do this. Dozens of them. "Hey guys what else do you wanna do here so we can continue with the story?" is pretty on the nose and still better than this...
@@DomenG33KIf you watch movies then you’re subject to scenes being cut all the time. It even happens when we dream. The pacing of a good game demands action from the DM, or the movie director in this metaphor. If the cast just stands around talking to the camera operator, the movie won’t be made.
If the party isn’t following something, the DM has failed in his hooks, this situation shouldn’t exist.
@@tradent the players aren't actors following a script, that analogy doesn't work at all
@@luismigueloteromolinari5406 this isn't a dm not giving there players stuff to do. This is the "were done with the un important shopping that making Brad go to sleep" situation. Players tend to limger on things a tad bit too long so there are times that's best to just move things forward for the benefit of the whole group dm included.
I love how The Wildsea handles this by having Scenes and Montages as clearly defined modes of gameplay. If it's exciting, zoom in. If it's only set dressing or minuate, zoom out.
Love the pirate mindflayer
Oh man.. This is SUCH a good tip..
Pacing aside, it also totally bypasses having to play out the menial tasks players would do, which I've had eat up a full hour sometimes.
Esp when you don't know their intentions, the players just narrate wanting to go into town, then finding the market, then talking with the shopkeeper or whoever, (sometimes its an NPCs house to tell them something), and any interesting flavour text or world-building you come up with might draw them to get distracted, then another player wants to join, then the others want to narrate what they would've been doing, and on and on and on...
Could not agree more! I am stealing the quote: "When the fun is gone, move on!" I love a good rhyme.
Sometimes what happens between the cool moments adds something to the narrative - what resources did the characters gain or find, what did they find out in their studies - these things can add a great deal of agency to how the characters interact with encounters (social, hazardous, and violent).
This is why my game has Downtime Actions. We move the narrative along at a good pace at the table, and when the fun is gone, we move on, but I let them know they have been awarded DT Actions for these various breaks at the end of a session or during a short break and the players can spend them to have their characters interact with these fictional elements during the intermission.
It also gives me time to track in game time, which can be tedious to do on the fly. Doing it in retrospect really allows me to fine tune what resources the characters have, which can help in area/dungeon level pacing when the action starts back up again!
I really thought this was going to be about Captain N’Ghathrod and I got really excited :(
DM: Carrots? Okay, before you left town, you bought a week's survival provisions for you, the party and your animals. Half is in the cart, the other half spread amongst your packs for snacking. You can extrend these provisions by foraging, but you probably won't need to before you reach your destination, which is only four days traveling. So, you're on the road ...
I like to call this Tea Time when I'm playing with my guys.
I wish I could do this. My players spent half the session doing non-lethal damage to a band of marauders, then the other half debating the morality of killing them because they're was no prison system.
BTW, they totally killed them after I had to RP that none of them were remorseful and if given the chance, they would kill again.
I kinda do this, but I like to think of it as a funnel thing. I have "major plot points" that need to be visited in a sequential order (ie get the quest, do the quest, turn in the quest for reward). What they do between it is up to them. Say they get the quest and decide to faff about for who knows how long getting into roleplay scenarios or shopping or whatever, as long as the quest isn't specifically time sensitive it doesn't matter to much, but just like all roads leading back to Rome, all story lines lead to the next major plot point
That's called railroading and it's not always a bad thing.
That goes for new players who aren't used to the freeform freedom an RPG grants...
... especially those who think console games are RPGs. They need the extra help. 🤣
I'm in a campaign that we've been playing for a bit over a year. It was fun for the longest time, but we're at a point where the campaign could've ended months ago if the DM wasn't constantly introducing new side quests. The other players are having fun, but personally I haven't been having much fun anymore. Our characters have been level 20 constantly getting more and more OP homebrew items for months, and we're one party decision away from ignoring other quests and going straight to the BBEG. I just want us to get all the side quests over with so we can beat the BBEG by now because I was excited to fight him, then out of nowhere it's just side quest after side quest as soon as the DM finds out we basically just want to make sure everything is taken care of so we can fight the BBEG. I don't want to quit the campaign, but at the same time it doesn't feel fun anymore and just feels like a day where I listen to someone talk about something I have no interest in. Yes, I WAS having fun, but not anymore.
What I think is currently going on is I entered a campaign where everyone is close friends with the DM, and the DM is having fun, and the players see it as an escape from reality, whereas I see D&D as fun Dice game where I can blast stuff with magic (and last time I referred to D&D as a dice game my whole group got pissed off at me until I apologized, even the DM didn't want to talk with me until the other players made him cool his jets). I feel out of place in the group, and feel like the DM is trying to prioritize his own fun with all the references to stuff he likes being put in our game whether we get them or not, and the other players just so happen to still be having fun. I don't know what to do in this situation because the fun is there for others and not me, but if I got what I found fun I know the rest of the party would not have fun. Yet despite all this, I truly don't want to quit the campaign because the character I made for the campaign my DM helped me fall in love with playing, and he made NPCs that I absolutely adored, but we're now at a point where I don't feel passionate about the campaign anymore.
talk to your DM one on one, express how you feel the campaign is starting to drag, you're ready for a resolution and taking a break. Honestly, communication go's a long way, even if its just a text conversation, at least you got it out there. Sounds like the campaign has been going on for awhile, if you're all level 20 now. nothing wrong with wanting to wrap it up and take a break for awhile. if they wanna keep going after you leave thats fine. maybe you can jump back in at a later point.
That's genuinely good advice
And it's DM's that do that. That have made me not be able to simply sell some stuff or go shopping in over 3 months in real time
I think its important what they actually want to do with that. If it is character growth between the party members, let em have it. If they are talking about the weird nuances of quantum physics, its probably safe to skip ahead just a bit.
I actually tend to fast forward a bit unless there is something of note during travel, and I will also ask my players “you have some downtime during the travels ahead, is there anything you want to do?”
Usually this acts as a cue for them to get any good character beats in like pray to their god or talk to their pets and stuff before we move on too fast. If they all shake their heads then we can move on nice and easy.
I like this strategy a lot actually. Great advice!
My campaigns usually rubber band between the players finishing prepared stories and shenanigans in the interim.
You’d be surprised how well players start behaving when they realize you are now focused on the consequences of their down time actions, and will continue to do so for a session or two.
Generally by the end of a campaign, the ‘final battle’ is some grossly modified version of what I originally planned but also deeply personal to the players as a result.
Some will try to raise armies, others just want super weapons for maxxing. Some seek alliances. Others seek lore and keep me on my toes as far as world building goes. It can be kind of inspiring.
That’s a good technique. Another way is attack them with a bunch of goblins
i also think the "woah woah woah" moment is good, because now your players are suddenly very aware of what they want.
I think a good way to do this would be like "You argued all through the night." And roll disadvantage for Con, Dex, and Charisma due to being tired and not getting sleep. Or argue on the road.😂
"Also, you never got any rest, so no hit points or spell slots were recovered".
Okay but what if the discussion was if they were gonna go on the road or not and the circular argument is because of equal disagreement?
Don't do it then
Enforcing time limits really incentivizes more efficient gameplay.
Problem players and problem DMs are crawling out of the woodwork with this one.
I use this alot its very effective.
Someone got your mini movie of dungeons and dragons. It sounds cool.
I love that because it’s annoying if they had to explain what they’re doing for 20 minutes just to get Charlie a carrot. What should be a simple role play encounter might be like 20 seconds to just skip to the point and keep the flavor of roleplay still in as well
This is the context sorely lacking in this video.
Travel montages are so much more fun than a travel session in most cases
Tolkien: Nuh uh.
Peter Jackson: YUH HUH.
Eagerly waiting for the lion army's battle!
Often you can get a similar result by just setting a timer and saying, “Somehow, as if by instinct borne of a long-forgotten cataclysm that rocked your ancestral line, you know - with absolute certainty - that if you don’t make something happen in the next few minutes, you’ll be too late when the apocalypse comes knocking for you or someone else.”
And if they don’t wrap it up before the timer ends, something bad happens in the world and they hear about it on their way to confront the threat.
Is it bad I thought it was brennan hearing the first few words?
Agreed & well said.
On a related point, as a player, when the GM "hand waves" a combat, I generally resent it, unless the result was extremely clear. To me, combat is just as important as RP.
When I've GMed and saw that combat was getting bogged down, I can usually come up with a believable reason, in game, why the enemy withdrawals, dies or the fight is otherwise over.
So, my point is, as a GM, please do your level best to not break suspension of disbelief, if at all possible. It's really where the "magic" is found and isn't that what we all want?
Man his first choice is what is most often decried as railroading but it’s needed sometimes
Determinism is a form of railroading, which can be implemented by one's own choice, but then it gets philosophical after that.
This is nuts. I'm going to do that.
Davy jones mind flayer is way cooler than I anticipated
I think that's the reason my DM loves me , when there's too much discussion , I wander off to get into trouble 😂 .
That sounds annoying asf
@@ultrabigfella 🤣
So basically when you aren't the centre of attention you go and make it all about you again?
@@colli_ no , when we're stuck in an endless loop of discussion bogging down game play, I get things moving again .
@@Grymreefer to what you is discussion bogging down gameplay is probably roleplay to others, one of the pillars of the TTRPG community. Since everyone else participates in this discussion, don't you think that they would wrap it up if they weren't enjoying it?
Davy Jones from Pirates of the Caribbean was the reason why this video was made 💀
There's many ways you can create pressure to move the session forward, but don't deny players some downtime, too. If I forget buying carrots (or spell components) because you keep cutting, I'm gonna be displeased.
i tried this several times, but sadly my players riotted against me becase "They don't want cinematics" so... in the end we lose a lot of time with those situations without nothing happenings
Yeah, Ilithids with piratehats 😂
Its kindof like flipping a coin on a big decision, when it lands you know what you really wanted and youre forced to see that. So it stops wasting time and you still get the thing you really should have been spending your time doing.
I just let my players do what they want but within the story I have everything planned out we follow the story they do what they want. The story changes it’s their actions that change the story.
Arachnophobia warning
Great product placement...
My solution is to just put a 5-10 minute timer. Make the discussions quicker and make decisions faster. It keeps the momentum going and makes the players more engaged.
Except when the players say nah we actually go to the barber
I like it. Thank you
Scene transitions. That's brilliant.
Forbidden wisdom
i think this advice is really bad, as a dm, your job is to keep the players having a good time and telling their story while they do it, if the players story is buying carrots then you make a fun guy to buy supplies from, when the conversation is going nowhere you dont yank them to the future you make the conversation go somewhere, youre all powerful in this story you can make nothing into something
Very helpful
Some of these comments keep stating the same thing: "weh I'm the DM and I didn't sign up for all this roleplaying in a roleplaying game, so instead of speaking my personal intention in session zero, I'm just gonna use telepathy to make players play my way and if they don't get it, I'll just go full NEXT EPISODE ON D&D on them.".
What do you do when the players get upset or fight back at moving them along?
😂 yes, scene break is great. Maybe have a break at that point, get the players away from the table too for a few minutes
I don't plan a campaign, I plan events where the players go.
Towards the end when you ask what to do against the sword move, I am pretty sure dodgeroll forward is the answer as a hardcall.
As in, you do it by the same startup and you should move closer as she moves closer and whiffs.
Problem is if she goes for that low instead and hits while rolling.
As a Charlotta player, range is always my issue and dodgeroll forward usually is my go to answer to everything that spaces me out.
*(Dangerous but how will I win without facing danger!)*
NOTE: Ladivas dodgeroll is 4f slower than the rest of the cast, it might not work for you.
Where’s that first mind flayer pirate from?
It's from "Waterdeep: Dungeon of the Mad Mage". It's a cool module that is essentially a throwback to the old super dungeons. It's connected to "Waterdeep: Dragonheist" and you can run them together for a full 1-20 adventure. I will say, if you want to make the most of it you really want to make your own additions to the two of them.
I find this very hard to do. But I’m trying to be better about it
The people complaining about this are usually the ones who slow the game down like a slowmo guys video so they can shop for 3 days, or attempt to solve an extremely simple quest by doing ridiculous things that never progress anything. The guy in the video is CLEARLY (if youre not sub 80 IQ) saying that you only use this when the players are not progressing anything and seem to be getting bored.
If you want to have a boring ass campaign where the players have to trudge through 4 hours of walking, no one is stopping you. Hes just giving good advice for players who enjoy their time and want to play a game.
But like, why though? I never understood forcing your players a certain way... it's their game, no? Idk.
There's an interesting mix of fun and narcissism in dnd groups. Some players really do have a lot of fun just allowing the game to deteriorate into their own brand of absurdity, or drag to a halt while they plan and negotiate the perfect move in combat. It's certainly fun for them, and nobody else, and they often don't mind that.
Unlike roleplaying, D&D certainly encourages combat analysis paralysis to the nth degree. It's amazing if it happens with roleplaying.
"Sure, it's ok to Sometimes let those pesky players in on stiring the Story, but in the end it's not fun for me if they do so. So if your players are stuck doing...ugh... 'RoLePlAyInG' what I like to do is to just Interrupt them mid conversation and forcefully no questions asked railroad them straight to the next day because my players doing this weird 'RoLePlAyInG' nonsense or however it's called ruins MY fun. Sometimes though I have players that try to flash back and continue the nonsense that's leading nowhere, so what I do in this case is that I just Handwave it by saying 'yeah yeah Sure whatever, you got what you wanted to get' to sorta get them to be quiet and listen to ME continuing MY campaign." Like dude, someone please safe this persons players, thats absolute garbage dming. I was already pretty on the fence when seeing a short where the same person went "don't tell your players what hitpoints are until they get attacked or fall down a cliff. That's something they don't need to know to start playing the game" but now, yeah no, this person should absolutely not dm for anyone
My players would get so mad
Seems like most parties need to be corralled like a bunch of sheep tbh. Theyre delightful sheep, but players get in the way of their own enjoyment and a DM has to arbitrate that. Good advice.
This doesn’t work with my players, every time I try to pull something similar all of them riot and drag the scene back to where it was to finish whatever it was they were bullshitting over.
The discussion doesn’t even have to do with the game, they could be talking about boobs and butts but it HAS to take place at the blacksmith’s shop because that’s where discussion on the topic first started.
Let your players help... You time-skip, and if they wanted to do something, they can do it, way back when. 🤫🤷
I'm very bad for this and feel embarrassed once i realize that the dungeon master has been getting frustrated with me. They've got an amazing story to tell... I've wasted two turns trying to enchant a dog to be part of the squad.
Is that Zuldazar music I hear in the background?
So many selfish players always comment on things like this how about the dm's role being is a job as if dm's aren't allowed to have fun facilitating the advancement of the story.
But were they having fun?
your missing out on alot of content, and stuff that just hand waving away loses
I wanna know what shenanigans could of happened with the carrots!
Some players may allow it but 9ters really dont. Ive tried this before and they go "woah wait, Ok what I was saying is..." or "okok but just let me finish the..."
So railroading
I've preordered this as a birthday present to myself (my birthday is the day after it releases), but now hearing about all the interaction with previous planes that 5e has already touched, I'm tempted to pick up all the campaign settings that are featured in this book to run a series of adventures to give my players full teams of PCs to offer them options for when the Vecna story starts in our own chronology.... Or even start our own chronology!
It is possible to be TOO excited?!
I believe this is called Railroading
That is great advice ❤
He just described playing Blades in the Dark.
Do D&D DM's not know of jumpcuts?
Well, the DM Guide doesn't teach such a thing, and many refs get their start with D&D.
So railroading them
Sounds a lot like railroading
That sounds... Not super great for me
i dunno, sounds kinda like railroading
Railroad them. Got it.
The fact you can't tell the difference between railroading and the advice that he's giving here, sounds like a you problem.
Being self-aware when a scene is dragging on too long, and is not remotely helpful to the plot, is not the same thing as completely railroading your players.
The truth is that many players will get bored during certain spans of time, so doing your part to assist in skipping this, is actually helping to prevent them from getting burnt out.
Plus the fact that he is giving them a chance to say what they may have done in between, is obviously not the same thing as forcing them through a certain set of actions.
If you personally have troubles implementing something like this without railroading then that might be something that you need to work on.
It’s not a bad things just depends how it’s used a video by a RUclipsr pointyhat explains why it isn’t that bad
@insaynt9924 Well, it's not like the DM Guide teaches this sort of thing, and not every DM will be a natural storyteller, so the confusion does make sense. A clip video also doesn't help. What does help is session zero setting those playstyle parameters, but that was stuck in a latter supplement, and it only spoke about tone limits.
Shoe horning players isnt a good option.
its better to ad lib a low quality session that players dictate instead of running some stale cookie cutter unit everybody can predict once they see the first enemy.
if you want them to do X, and they wander through the forest- punish them a little.
have the trail they are walking in collapse into a pit and have them fighting an enraged bug bear.
NPCs can drop hints or straight up request the party into the right area.
you can easily steer people in the right direction just by describing an option for them to pursue.
if they dont take the hint, let them exhaust a few other options in the area, and remind them of what things they havent investigated yet.
The best viable solution is for them to be late for what their assignment was in the first place. Whenever an opponent has one's own goal, that's easily the most basic way of establishing a time limit to what the heroes can do. If they're late to stop the opponent, the opponent gets more difficult to thwart, thus automatically placing a penalty on the party.
Like when Mulan and the Royal China Army spent all that time dicking around, then got to the village where Shan Yu was supposed to attack, only finding out his army already burned the village down, sparing no man, woman, or child. Mmmmdoops!
I refuse to skip anything. If my players want to do their own thing, I allow it. The job of a dm isn't to guide the party. It's to make the experience fun for the players. So what if they don't go where I want? They're the players. I'll save what they skipped for a future campaign.
This is for when they aren’t having fun
@@Hussar88instead of kicking them back into whatever you want them to do, why not just have an out of game conversation about it?
@Hussar88 More like when some of them aren't having fun, in which case, put a time limit for the holdovers and explain why, then move on. Although this usually can be resolved in session zero from players setting goals and establishing playstyles.
I had to do this last night. They got into trying to distribute loot they found in a bag of holding.
In my opinion this makes DND campaigns a whole lot less fun
DND isn’t about achieving a goal
It’s a game let the players have fun and if they have a really long argument with an NOC you can put the player in a space where their forced to resolve the argument same with any other encounter.
Don’t get me wrong the DM or GM should also have fun but the players fun should be the priority